Animators React to Bad & Great Cartoons 14
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2024
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Niko and Wren are joined by Veteran Animator Tom Bancroft, to break down some of the best and worst animation in your favorite films.
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Chapters ►
00:00 Welcome to VFX Artists React
00:57 The Old Mill
02:44 Bambi
04:03 Vessi
06:20 The Great Mouse Detective
07:50 Beauty and the Beast
09:22 The Rescuers Down Under
12:10 Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse
16:09 Pencils vs Pixels
18:20 Thanks For Watching - บันเทิง
![Smoother animation ≠ Better animation [read description]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_KRb_qV9P4g/mqdefault.jpg)
Y’all really need to do a Studio Ghibli episode! Not just one clip but a whole episode.
Yes! Can't believe they haven't. Now would be a good time with the release of Boy and the Heron.
This episode means so much to me. Believe it or not one of the clips from Rescuers Down Under, that's me! See, my father worked at Disney as an animator from around Rescuers Down Under until Princess and the Frog. Back when they were making Rescuers I was about 9 or so, my dad was taking me on a tour of the Burbank studio. An animator stopped us and asked if he could film me running down a little track from point A to point B. I did it a few times. If I'm not mistaken that is the very running scene shown that I modeled. I hadn't seen it in years. Thank you Corridor Crew for this great episode.
That's an awesome story (and a cool like "claim to fame")
Whoa!
Rad!
I love these stories that always pop up in the comments on videos like these, so.etimes from artists, sometimes from people that contributed in other ways, like you! It's so cool for some reason!
Thank you for your service. 🫡😆
Wow! Thank you for featuring my video at 13:02
Been a fan your reaction series for a while and I got jumpscared by it!! HAHA
Tom is such a genuinely kind soul (met him and his brother at a convention a few years ago). Always look forward to your videos with him!
Let's keep on animating from the heart!!
NO WAY. I didn’t notice that at first that’s awesome
Cool!
The Golden Eagle sequence from Rescuers Down Under is still one of the most breathtaking sequences of all time. Magnificent in every frame.
❤
Bro said “mistakes in filmmaking happen and you guys have made a job out of that” the subtle feeling of guilt quickly filled the couch 💀
That was some epic soft shading
@@fiveoneecho He's great and it looks like theyre having a blast, what are you even on about
In fairness, that could stand as an indictment of the vfx market the studios have created
What a lame thing to say lmao. They highlight the good things and bad.
System works as designed. Edit : just watched what you were talking about and wow you embellished the hell outta this bit
Thanks for featuring the multi-plane camera technology. My grandma was one of the first two women to operate the camera back in the 40s.
Your grandma rocks
No way! My grandma was the other!
@@Orangeflavawait…so that means my grandma lied.?
wait... my grandma was one of these first 2 women too....
@@akchueither she lied or one of them is bullshitting
Niko’s comment at 10:06 about the branch fading out too slowly - THAT’S BOTHERED ME FOR YEARS! I could never understand why other people didn’t notice it!
I have not seen that movie, ever, and yet immidietly in this video the branch stuck up like a sore thumb and made my brain scream "that is wrong!" 🤣
Even as a kid I could tell that Beauty and the Beast ballroom scenes were partly CG, but knowing what I know now makes it even more mind-blowing. The level of skill to do things as subtle as the dress twirl inertia, perspective change and even feet moving relative to the floor speed, all in a high animation frame rate, are so perfectly done. Beautiful work.
that’s so interesting that he hasn’t heard about how they made some characters choppy on purpose in spiderverse to show they were still clumsy. i feel like that’s the main and most prominent fun fact about the movie lol
It's actually obvious in the story telling. But i noticed plenty of people my friends included who are big film buffs and wanna make movies, call the film overrated and bad with the main criticism being they hated the frame rate and even after explaining it several times like in this video they dismiss it. Its surprising to hear it from an animator but i get it too, when your trained one way seeing things another is shocking. Kinda like how people scream no adverbs, show dont tell, limit boring parts, conflict all the time, heightened tension, etc for stories then many come out and dont do that and sell...I have friends that wont watch the second spiderverse due to hearing false info about the story or just not liking spiderman for being you know...when it comes to it the film literally addresses their criticism so its funny. The story keeps saying you dont belong, your not like us, your an anomaly, and he's telling them its my story and i choose what i am...i am different, and that's ok. People i know are still on that, well dont call him spiderman and he should be original and he's just peter but so on...shame people cant look in the mirror sometimes and notice their own flaws.
@@nichescenes yeah it’s interesting that some people can’t get on board with art going against the grain, “rules are made to be broken” applies so heavily to art. Meta commentary is just another tool in making an interesting story.
@@britchin Exactly. Alot of anime uses the limited animation and fans got used to it. Show anime to a disney only fan and the first thing i get is them asking why the pacing is so slow and why dont they constantly move etc. When action happens they go omgosh i cant keep up why are they leaping 10 feet into the air and all this over the top stuff. Its just a style. I especially laugh when people claim the animation is bad and point out smears and speed lines and flashes used artistically for a fast second...and point to some dry boring animation that stays on model but never moves much. Its ok since the animator in video was speaking more on personal taste not that the animation is bad as he explains. But there are people who straight out just say its bad for said reasons. Also sad that the animator in video dismissed the explanation so fast much like people i know. Would be better if he said oh that makes more sense since he already knew it was a choice not a budget saving thing...then he could add that i still wouldnt do it that way since its distracting more than it adds for the story beat...but it all came off like he was looking at it animation wise and angry like most animatiors these days, that they cant coast anymore and spiderverse made animation need to be unique again to get people in seats. Tons of animators hate on it and have trouble doing so due to the polish so they just call out the frame rate and dip out. LOL.
the frame rate is bothersome to many people, and I don't personally know a single person in the real world that actually enjoyed the movie oddly enough. Hear so much good online, then nothing everywhere else.
I like that he wasn't commenting on it knowing the particular reason they did it though. He's just of the opinion that it doesn't look pleasing to him technically and visually. Going as far as explaining that there's times when he thinks it does make sense, but action shots aren't one of them to him.
I think this fun fact about the movie has become so spoken of because it's such a counter-intuitive concept too.
I haven't gone back and rewatched it with this knowledge of the framerate so I don't personally have much of an opinion really. Either way it's intriguing to get his perspective.
Wow, that Beauty and the Beast dance scene really is some amazing work
What's crazy is, when I first saw it as a child, it was the 3d background rotating around that blew me away. And now that aspect is insignificant and it's the hand drawn characters dancing and rotating around that blows me away.
The inertia of Belle's skirt works so well.
I remember reading that the render for that sequence took so much time that they didn't know if it was going to be finished, so they planned that if It wasn't finished they were just gonna be dancing in full black background
i feel like the Beauty and the Beast approach is what all the best modern anime do too. cg backgrounds and highly geometrical objects to free animators to give more detail to characters and organic objects.
Remember when Disney wasn't garbage. :(
1:08 he's 86 years oldddd??
Man he looks good 🤝🏻
He was joking
Not only was Miles intentionally animated on 2s, when he takes his leap of faith, he's on 1s for the rest of the movie.
The SpiderVerse movies are amazing and every little detail is planned and with intention. I love it
That's not true. That leap of faith sequence contains a mix of shots in which he's on 1s and shots in which he's on 2s. For example, the bit where he swings on top of a truck crossing his path is on 2s, and so is the final shot where he comes to rest looking over the river at the Kingpin's building.
You can check by stepping through it one frame at a time: either with a BR/DVD copy of the movie, or using the period key to step through a TH-cam clip.
@@variousthings6470what about after the leap of faith sequence? i.e. "The rest of the movie"
James Baxter is by far one of the most talented animators of all time on TV or in movies
JAMES BAXTER!
I was friends with his daughter in high school. He's super nice guy!
@@dangplay2552🐎
Was the AT horse a reference to this guy?
@@JKa244 it's not only a reference, James Baxter himself animated the horse and beach ball
I would love to see you guys delve into the much OLDER animated films like Rock and Rule, Heavy Metal and even Akira.
These were in around the 80's and even live screen technology was still at 'Tron' levels of detailing so these cartoons detailing was phenomenal for the time.
I'm pretty sure they already did Akira
@@willbatterson1911 on yt or corridor website?
The 80s aren't that old. And Tron was released in 1982. Are you talking about Tron legacy?
Did they ever look at The Wings of Honneamise? (Older than Akira by a year or so and of even greater quality.)
The really need to look at the Daicon IV opening too. It is so good it never gets old.
@@chobies5383 I think they were referring to all the rotoscoping used in the original Tron.
Some denigrate that kind of thing as not being proper animation, but I think they are ignorant fools.
Would love to hear more about the Mongol stampede scene from Mulan...that one blew me away in the theatre as a hybrid shot. Those horsemen are still the most realistic thing I've seen in CGI from Disney.
Watching Rescuers Down Under again, you know what struck me the most? Using animals as main characters allowed for a lot of creativity without sacrificing familiarity. For the mice, every human tool or structure is enormous, and watching them work around those items turns the mundane into something amazing.
I think that's one of the things missing from modern cartoons, in that every main character is human, which creates a lot of restrictions that make things less fun and wondrous.
i’ll admit i would like to see you tackle more of the CGI trailers that are released for video games, a lot of them are very cool and have to try to convey as much as possible in a short amount of time.
Bros thinking about GTA 6 💀
Many of the best are by Blur, who they’ve already had someone from on before, so that could work well
@@hipfire1920GTA 6 trailer isn't CGI though
@@Trinidaddy_GamingTHANK YOU
@@Trinidaddy_Gaming Doesn't matter, even though it was in engine, it's animation.
Huge thanks to you guys covering Rescuers Down Under! I loved that movie as a kid, watched the VHS so many times the tape broke 😂
Oh, man... that whole initial sequence with Marahute STILL brings tears to my eyes, with how beautifully it's done. A (imo) PERFECT blending of realism and imagination. And I'm super picky about avian portrayals.
I just love Wrens passion snd childlike excitement… it’s so infectious
The Great Mouse Detective is super underrated.
Totally! That era of Disney overall is underrated.
One of my favorite Disney movies 😎💯👍
Had it on VHS and liked it a lot. Not as much as Disneys Robin hood though
My favorite Disney film...'Miss Flangerhanger' 'It's Flaversham!'
@@sophiemoser1752 it's a 3 way tie between Robinhood and fox and the hound and beauty and the beast for me. Second place easy The Black Calderon
Yo just something I noticed - Toy Story is shown as coming out in 1991 at 16:54, but it came out in 1995.
These are my favorite react episodes, btw. The artistry that comes through with animation is just SO RAD, thanks for the episode!
Yeah, this instantly popped out to me because I remember it coming out and there's no way it would be the same year as Beauty and the Beast (when I was 1yo).
Was looking in comments for this, haha. Simple mistake is all.
@@tylerc161 Easy mistake for sure but for a second my whole mental history got turned upside down.
Aye knew it was wrong but was still surprised when IMDB returned a date of 1995
Noticed it as well. They just accidentally used Beauty and the Beast's info (1991, Disney) instead of (1995, Pixar).
I'd love to see the crew make a 2D short film where they digitally draw each frame and screenshot it as if it were an old school camera. Maybe a premise that involves an animators react session and they flip flop Nico and Wren being real life or animated on each side of the couch.
Glad Wren isn't afraid to speak up and corrected Tom as to why Miles was on 2's
Yeah lots of respect for Phil but he’s had some spicy takes on spiderverse
Yeah, but I kinda agree with him the film uses it a bit too much
It's not a thing. Miles is still on 2's during his swinging scene, it's not because he was "ready" it was just an artistic choice. Even the other Spider people are on 2's. Not sure where this rumor started but it's a stretch
@@NoTheRobotwrong
Tom was 100% correct though. The decision to make the movement look like trash to imply that he’s still learning is moronic and a guarantee people just notice the jerky movement and not some obscure story point they’re trying to make
really glad 2D animation is slowly making a comeback thanks to indie animations …there is just something much more magical about 2D over full on realistic 3D
Same man, keep trying to think of the last 2D animated film in theaters in the west and outside of kids show cartoon and anime movie adaptations I can't think of much :/
I'd really like that modern day the iron giant moment to happen again
I'm also super happy to see it being slapped onto 3D too instead of the other way around. Stuff like Arkane and whatnot where it's clearly a mix of good renders but also some nice hand drawn stuff over everything.
I think what really helps is the people that grew up in both types, finally being in the studios and help make new films. First it was the people who wanted to make 2d animation, then someone thought it'd be fun to try and do something new with 3d. Now we can mix and mash the two. This is why I love animation in general, it's fluid like water.
I was on nostalgia lane right along with Wren! It was great to see some behind the scenes of the old Disney animation. Similar to how they combined 2D and 3D, it would be cool to see a reaction to Dreamworks's take on that strategy in movies like Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron and Sinbad.
You should look at Hotel Transylvania! Not only is it directed by an animation genius, it does so many things and breaks so many rule so they can follow a Tex Avery aesthetic. Characters will often break and go off model so that they can display their emotion or land the bit.
Also you gotta get Brad Bird on the couch
The Rescuers Down Under is also such a nolstalgia hit for me. Remember watching that on repeat on VHS on the weekend.
I just purchased and watched "Pencils vs. Pixels." What a phenomenal documentary! Thank you for providing the artists perspective. I've always had an appreciation for 2D animation but now I hold it in even higher regard!
I hope we can see Tom’s view, as a western animator, discussing the differences between western and eastern (Anime) animation in the next one!
Jordan "I'm not suspicious..." closes and locks glass door😂😂
I randomly ran into Tom's brother Tony Bancroft in Los Angeles when I was a kid and I came for a visit from rural Idaho. I saw his "crew jacket" from Aladdin and had to ask if he worked on that. Not only did he stop and chat with me for a few minutes, asking about what I wanted to work on someday, he asked for my notebook, and drew a fantastic Pumba from Lion King with about 20 precisely targeted but fast pencil strokes, while telling me he was a lead on that character, and signed it for me. I still have that piece of lined mini-notebook paper almost 30 years later, and now that I work in visual effects at Disney I think of that interaction every time I meet an enthusiastic student.
I love the laid back humor you guys have. enjoyed every part of the video, even the sponsored part of it.
Thanks for always bringing fresh stuff for us ❤
If everyone is first, nobody is first.
Well said
first 🧀
No there is objectively a first person.
Anyone else ever watch the Canadian show ReBoot? It was the first CGI animated show done by the fine folks who brought us Beast Wars. I used to think they looked amazing but time didn't show either show any mercy. CC should include ReBoot on a reaction.
The first movie to use CGI rather than blue/green screen and practical props for space battles was The Last Starfighter, they should check that out too.
Great series! Most of the design work on ReBoot was done the great comic-book artist Brendan McCarthy who also designed almost everything in Mad Max: Fury Road.
Corridor will always be some of my favorite people. They’re all so kind hearted, talented, and truly have beautiful souls. Everytime I see a new video is posted I just light up with joy and let me say; even as a musician these videos make me happier than a lot of the music content out there. Keep up the work Corridor and thank you for being in our hearts 🫶
This was another great episode.
He name dropped Ming-Na Wen at the end there, I wonder if you could get her on oneday for Stuntwomen react?
Great episode! I just purchased the movie.. I had seen it on my AppleTV so definitely need to support your guest and all the amazing animators and artists who have brought such joy to the masses
Loving how you break down the evolution of animation styles! It's super cool to see the old and new ways side by side. Your unique animator insights completely elevate the experience. Can't wait for more of this stuff!
This episode is absolutely amazing! So much interesting information and love to animation. I am so inspired and excited. Can’t wait to see what you release next ❤
I noticed when seeing The Boy and the Heron it had a few really noticeable moments when they went to 1s even when the action was slow and not dramatic - stood out because Ghibli and probably most anime stick mostly to 2s and 3s
The *last agni kai fight from ATLA* would be perfect for for the Animators React. It's so stunning!
The "CHARGE " Blender short would be awesome for the VFX series. As well as *Aslan from the Chronicles of Narnia!* where you could do a comparison to the "live action" Lion King. Also at the end of second Chronicles of Narnia movie there's a big water creature, so it might be cool to see what you think about that.
And for stuntmen react It would be cool to see you react to the duel from "Potop", it's really good sword fight
Such an awesome episode everyone @Corridor. Can't wait for next week. Super insightful on the details of these childhood classics.
If I'm not mistaken, The Little Mermaid (1989) also had some computer graphics mixed with 2D animation. One of the opening shots with the ship, and then later on in the movie when Arielle runs down the stairs thinking Eric's going to propose to her.
Some interesting foreign animation (that's not asian based) that might be good for the show -- "Tango (1981)" by Zbigniew Rybczynski, won the Oscar for best animated short ; and "Gisele Kerozene (1990)" by Jan Kounen, a great example of the technique of pixilation.
You guys should do an episode on early 3D animated shows like Reboot and Beasties (Beast Wars). Take a look at Roughnecks: Starship Troopers Chronicles which was very ambitious for its time.
and then compare that to something like 2008 Clone Wars, which had crazy visual quality jumps ever single season. I've never seen any other tv show do that, animated or live action.
Fun fact the gear scene from Great Mouse Detective and the Ballroom scene from Beauty and the Beast were made on Pixar computers, but not made by Pixar the company. Micheal Eisner purchased 18 computers from Pixar when the company was funded by Steve Jobs. Eisner never wanted anyone to actually use the computers though. It is widely believed that Eisner only bought the computers to shut Jobs up about them. When Beauty and the Beast was in production, the movie went way over budget and the ballroom scene was believed to be almost impossible to animate by hand. Only 4 animators kind of knew how to use the computers at the time. Through trial and error, they built the wireframe for the ballroom in about 2 weeks time. It took almost another 2 weeks to finish animating the ballroom (except for Belle and Beast dancing which was hand drawn). Through experimenting with the camera setting in the pcs, they were able to figure out how to move the camera like a crane shot spiraling through the ballroom. A feature that could never be achieved from hand drawn animation.
The Director of "Rescuers Down Under" was my story-boarding teacher. I was only studying film but I learned a lot about cinematography from him.
I feel like there's been a huge wealth of incredible but differently styled western animated shows released recently; Scavengers Reign, Blue Eye Samurai, and Castlevania Nocturne particularly spring to mind.
Would love to see a deep dive about these modern shows and the ways their production methodologies are used in similar/disparate manners to achieve wildly different artistic results, such as in the more trad 2d Scavengers Reign, or the heavily stylised 3d of Blue Eye Samurai.
Incredible work as always, your react shows are easily some of the best on youtube and its the best weekly treat, thanks!
Castlevania Nocturne is NOT a good show.
Wren was right about the artistic decision for Miles Morales animation of Into the Spiderverse. The reason was explained by the director of the film.
I thought it worked perfectly for the film, but of course I’m not a professional animator. I get his point of view but I still think the movie is a masterpiece in every way.
I like that he actually disagrees with the choice and doesn’t just repeat word for word what everyone has heard from the director. It shows that in the end it was an artistic decision; one that worked for some and didn’t work for others. It reinforces the idea that there are “no rules” because everyone’s subjective experience will color how they view any given film and its direction.
I thought they even covered it on a Reacts video.
@@fudd80 I guess that’s where I saw it from. I looked it up and it’s on their video Animators React to Bad & Great Cartoons 2 from 3 years ago. Thanks for that lead!
I would love to see this guy talk about more recent stuff. Always cool to see the perspective of someone who actually worked with older tools reflect on what is new without having a big gripe with the evolution of the medium. That is something I love about Niko, actually. Guy comes up knowing how hard it was and is still fascinated about the new tools and tricks and looks at them with shiny eyes without an old man grudge to him.
Props to the whole team man. Been watching for years and have enjoyed the evolution of you guys as people, as a business and as artists.
Yes-- that Bambi moment!! No joke when my sister and I watched the VHS as kids we'd often slow down that part in the fire because something felt off. We'd hit pause and out VHS player allowed us to see a frame by frame look by hitting the forward while on the paused-mode. We did see that error as kids and it had always left a mark in my life that art even at a professional level can have errors sometimes.
Great episode, Tom Bancroft is great and I'm hyped about what they're doing at Pencilish Studios. The disappearing racoon in Bambi made me lol I think it turned my nitpicky spider sense on for the rest of the episode cause when Toy Story flashed on the screen around 16:55, I was like "Wait a second, 1991? It didn't come out in 91!" But alas, we are all mortals lol
I'm surprised that they didn’t mention that the Rescuers Down Under was the first all digital movie. Not CGI, but all of the movie was done in “Digital Ink and Paint” no cells. That makes it the first all digital film.
My boys, when I'm on TH-cam and The Corridor Crew uploads, I simply must watch the episode the same day :) It's a wonderful show: entertaining, informational, educational, inspirational... Great job!
I am so relieved to know someone else thinks the same as me about this new animated spiderman movies. Really sometimes I was wondering why was so hard to me to see what was going on, because certain scenes were so fast paced or blurry somehow. Now I understand why, thank you a lot. Great video!
Tom Bancroft is great. Love seeing him on the show
The Great Mouse Detective is one of my absolute favorite classic disney movies.
You guys are one of the few creators that I am, not only subscribed to, but will deliberately use standard TH-cam on desktop or mobile instead of...mmn...less ad-heavy versions just because I want to make sure you guys are getting the view metrics and revenue.
What is going on with Wren? He is so hyperactive, loud, and one step away from "WHAT IS UP CORRIDOR CREW, IT'S YA BOI!"
Comparing him to "VFX Artists React to Bad & Great CGi 89" his energy is x100
I can often recognize Glen Keane's animation in a lot of films just from character poses and expressions. There's something about the way Cody moves and smiles at 11:12 that screams Glen Keane to me - kinda makes me think of his Aladdin.
Hi, what film was that they looked at, I couldn’t see a title?
Oh it was rescuers down under. Never mind
I think it would be really interesting to have Disney veterans look at anime.
As if they didn't study the heck out of Miyazaki's NAUSICAA before making that eagle sequence in RESCUERS DOWN UNDER? ;)
Would love to see you look at Wolf Walkers, it has a pretty unique art style whilst being very Disney-like.
Love that you guys talked about Rescuers Down Under! One of my favorites as a kid! Those flying scenes are still so amazing to watch! IMO they are up there with Miyazaki's flying sequences.
Just finished blue eyed samurai.... AMAZING. Up there with arcane! Would love to see a breakdown.
Miles is on 2’s because he’s learning and transitions into 1’s whilst he’s swinging with Peter
yup, i don't think he paid too much attention to the story , that's why i don't agree with him. It was a great idea, it works
Lmao he had the perfect boomer take. "I didn't listen to the story, I just know what I saw and I don't like it"
lol ya but I wish they told him why because miles is moving at a lower frame rate than everyone else, until he becomes the new spiderman and is more confident 😅
Yeah he completely missed that and then chose to ignore it when informed of it lmfaoo
Lmao I was about to comment about it before Wren said something... Like why even leave this bit in, he didn't know what he was talking about.
My wife is so cute! We watched the announcement of Pencils VS Pixels and she was sad until she heard it was available on Amazon. As soon as the video was over she snatched up the remote, brought up Amazon, and bought the documentary
Love this channel. I rely on Artists/Stuntmen React videos for my weekend movie ideas.
For the love of all that handrawn animation + CG, please check gems in depth like Titan A.E., Treasure Planet, Atlantis:The lost empire, Steamboy, Memories (1995), Heavy Metal and Heavy Metal 2000, and maybe Pagemaster if you got the chance to talk with one of the animators from that film. (Note: and a little bit of the Animatrix since that one Is already 20 years old. WOW, time flies like crazy lately)
Definitely would love to see your reactions to Scott Pilgrim Takes Off in the next Animators React
Awesome awesome awesome video guys ❤ Particularly the love for Rescuers Down Under!
Great video as always. For the next one on this topic, well, you could talk about the work of Jiří Trnka, Jan Švankmajer, Norman McLaren, Brothers Quay, Ryan Larkin... animators who have worked with objects, which is the other path that routed to forge 3D animation.
18:40 "It's been there for what, 40, 50 years?"
Haha, 81 years, sir.
I regretted that as soon as I said it. Thanks for mentioning it- I was WAY off!
THANK YOU!!!!! I've been saying this about the frame timing of that Spider-Man movie since it came out. And people called me crazy because "it was a cinematic choice". Now you've heard it from a professional.
That movie made me noxious.
Same here. And I almost walked out of the cinema in the sequel, because I felt motion sickness.
Can you please just give us a blooper reel of Jordan doing sponsorships and seeing real-time reactions to her antics? She's absolutely phenomenal lol
Seriously, that was amazing 😂
@@nealwright3075 there has to be a more politically correct way to describe someone as “having crack head energy” but that’s the best I can come up with.
Shout out to Asventure Time having a character named James Baxter and all he says is "Jaaaaaames Baaaaxter."😂
CC guys got it - the animation jerky and lower frame rate in Spiderverse on purpose because once he gets used to his powers and finds his identity a bit the film shifts and goes to higher/smoother frames. It's an aesthetic choice that supports the writing. It goes jerky to smooth to visually support the main character going from awkward to confident. Bancroft hits on this when Gwen shows up smoothly, but it's not necessarily because she is graceful, it's because, unlike the other two SpiderGuys she's the most confident. By the end of the film Miles is super smooth, and in the 2nd film it's pure liquid. CC guys totally got it. SV2 goes even further in animation technique-as-characterization.
agreed; i did think Tom had a good point though - especially one of the spiderverse scenes they showed, where Miles is walking down the street and interacting with everyone - the fact that all the background characters are on ones and he's on twos is a bit jarring!
@@moontravellerjulsweet Jesus dude, that was thr fucking point!
OK, I get the artistic choice and that makes sense story wise. But still, I had a tough time going through the start of the movie because of those choppy parts. Not enough to still enjoy the movie, but I may be a little old because it gave me a bit of a physical headache watching those specific scenes.
What I didn’t get was that the visual effect was much more choppy to look at than a low budget Nickelodeon show. That’s why I’m on the fence with the way it was implemented by just mechanically and automatically put everything in 2’s for those shots. I wish they’d take this into account in the animation by reducing the number of in between frames for giving the effect (like a very old tv cartoon) rather than just suppressing 1 of every two frames of an animation meant to be 1’s.
People keep repeating this bit of trivia about the use of different framerates on different characters in Into the Spider-Verse, *but it's not true* - at least, not consistently true!
You can check it yourself by going frame-by-frame through action scenes in the movie. Throughout the film, there are shots of each of Miles and Peter at 12fps and shots of each of them at 24fps. The choice of which to use doesn't happen consistently enough to be able to make claims like "in the forest escape, Peter is more experienced so he's animated on ones while Miles is on twos" or "Miles appears on ones throughout the What's Up Danger sequence to show his new confidence". (Those are the two claims I see most often.)
Now, admittedly people involved with the film have said different things on this subject. The main thing I've seen that supports the commonly-repeated claim is a video by Wired in which the film's head of character animation talks about Peter and Miles coming into sync during the forest escape. He mostly focuses on the two characters both being at 12fps, just moving on alternating frames (specifically visible in the bagel-throwing shot). But a bit later on, he offhandedly uses the phrase "they're even on different framerates until they both get it together."
(Remember, "moving on different frames" and "moving at different framerates, have very different meanings.)
But the film's co-director Peter Ramsey has done at least one interview in which he explicitly debunks the idea that the different framerates were an intentional decision to show character progression. Search for the TH-cam video "CGM Interviews - Peter Ramsey" and watch from about the 8 minute mark - here's a transcript:
*And there was something on the animation. First you see certain characters animated at 12 fps, and progressively it's...*
I've heard people say that - it's not really true. It's not really true, they're all animated at 12. 'Cause they're all on twos. There may be a few, for technical reasons, few small moments that we have to do on ones. But hardly ever.
*There's no progression, then?*
No. No, the only progression is in the performance of the characters. A lot of people have thought, "oh Miles was animated on twos, and then he was animated on ones" - no, he's on twos all the way. But it's just that as he gets more confident, his own performance becomes more confident.
@@BelairPedicab I thought something was broken with the projector for the first couple of scenes. We can acknowledge it was an artistic choice but you also have to accept that many people found it to be jarring and for them it didn't land the way the artists probably intended.
For the next animators react yu could watch some Don Bluth Classics like Fievel or the Secret of Nimh
I love Rescuers and Rescuers Down Under! So cool to see some of the lesser known classics ( such as great mouse detective) and learn some history too. Its amazing how talented people are and I love when people take the time to appreciate the difficulty of scenes like that beauty and the beast shot. Its crazy how fast things have improved and changed but how artists still come through in new ways with the changes.
I love the Jordan on Jordan banter and back and forth we get at the end of ads these days! They're genuinely the best! 🤗😆
Wren and Nico nailed the whole spiderverse framerate breakdown 4 YEARS AGO in vfx artist react 6, and they still respect the guy as he seemingly misses the intention of it all. Props to everyone for still letting the experts have their own opinions even when it doesn't line up with how the guys saw things.
Indeed! it’s also deeply interesting to see it through his eyes - despite the clever intention of the spiderverse animators, the 2’s and 1’s effect might very well be jarring for some viewers. It’s an interesting example of artistic intention vs watchability, and the choice to prioritise one over the other.
I totally agree with the 1s and 2s feeling jarring when not implemented properly in an action sequence. Motion sickness kicks in, especially on a large screen.
It’s like playing a video game at 20fps…
Yeah, it is a new style. Where they make action look like crap on purpose. At least in spiderverse they only did it with some characters to indicate different generations of animations even if they did apply it incorrectly.
People seem to love it, but I'd have it all on 1s. Don't throw away one of the greatests strengths of 3D.
I saw Rescuers Down Under in an actual theater, and that opening shot blew me back in my seat, utterly awestruck. I had never seen animation _move_ like that before. Absolutely blown away.
The Black Cauldron was the first 2D Disney movie to use cgi like that. It was the same people who went on to do The Great Mouse Detective that did it.
Just a note. At 16:53, you caption Toy Story as being from 1991, but it was actually 1995.
I know he was joking, but just to say that those animators were far from lazy. They worked long hard hours, mostly for the love of the art too because Walt didn’t pay well. That’s why so many of them left to go to Warner Brothers and help create the Loony Tunes cartoons, which I can’t imagine animation history without. Some of the greatest cartoons ever made. Especially during the Chuck Jones era.
This was a fantastic video! So interesting!
I felt the same way about the Spider-Verse series. There is so much shit happening on the screen, that at times it is too difficult to really follow the action.
You need to look at Spartacus, Specifically early parts of season one where VFX are all over the place, some gore looks good while some is just splash effects behind the whole scene
I agree with his criticism on Spiderman. Especially the 2nd one I feel like some of the action scenes don't really read well on screen. The combination of the art style and the amount of stuff going on creates a lot of visual clutter that takes away from the clarity of what's actually happening.
The opening fight scene with Spider-Gwen vs Renaissance Vulture was definitely hard to follow my first time seeing it.
I feel this is the case with a ton of anime, actually. Really, really good effects animation, bombastic, whatever, but then the clarity as to what's actually happening in the scene is kind of lost.
@@Confluera Yeah that sequence is exactly what I was thinking of.
recusers down under was also a childhood fave of mine. so so happy to see it included! the animation is fantastic.
Loved this episode! I'll definitely be searching out that documentary...
Would still love to see Phil Vischer on the show for a deeper dive into VeggieTales
10/10 idea he's such a sweet guy
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH HIM ON SPIDER-VERSE ESPECIALLY ON ACROSS THE SPIDER-VERSE!!
A lot of the scenes in Mumbhattan, pretty much everything involving Hobie, and some of the bigger action sequences towards the end of the film are quite jerky and even flickering quite a bit. Which makes it much harder to tell what’s happening and is not as easy on the eyes as the rest of the movie.
I totally appreciate them pushing the boundaries and trying some really wacky stuff. But I can’t lie I had a headache after seeing it the first time and was honestly confused during some parts because I just couldn’t tell what the heck I was looking at.
When I watched it at home for the first time it was slightly easier to tell what was happening however I still got a slight headache. Plus I definitely still felt there were too many parts that were flickering giving almost a strobe like effect which made it hard to make out what was happening on screen.
It is still one of the best modern animated movies though. So this criticism isn’t trying to rip it apart or say it was bad. It was still great. I just think it would have been even better had they toned certain sequences down style wise to make it easier to read what was going on as well as to make it easier viewing and not an assault on your eyes.
I didn't know about the 'on 2s' thing. When I first watched into the spider verse many scenes just felt off to my eye and I didn't know why. Now I do.
Amazing! This video is like a animation class! Now I want to see Pencil vs Pixel!
I'm looking forward to another amime react with Violet Evergarden scenes and Fate Heaven's Feel movie scenes like Saber vs Berserker, Saber vs Rider and lancer vs Assassin. Would love to get an Animator's thoughts on what is arguably some epic animation.
the bit with spiderverse really hits home with how different creatives feel different things. As a musician, when I listen to music I can focus on all of the little extra bits that people miss, as an animator he picks up on so many things I would never notice
He also seemingly is massively uninformed on one of the most discussed things about the film, why it's animated the way it is. But he has seemingly a longstanding personal critique about it, despite being completely ignorant? Not a good look.
@@Silverizaelneither is pretending to be a moral authority in TH-cam comments.. but here you are?! Hmm.. 🤦♀️🤷🏻♀️ despite what you may think (while adding to a comment about detailed observations in one's field of choice) wasn't that big of a movie.. not "everyone" is/was talking about it.. the world is bigger then the west 🤷🏻♀️🤦♀️
@@selphconscious Anyone who is serious into animating should know about it, since that's literally their job.
@@Silverizael on a complete sidenote as a human being with a job - if my life revolved around currency - then I missed the point.. maybe you should take a moment to look around lol
That Beauty and the Beast ballroom scene will always be🔥
Returning to another Animators React to request Fern Gully! Right in that early-90's animation time and they were doing some crazy stuff