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I think that if they continue on this new eggman, with sage on his side, he won't go as sociopathic as they did on previous games, maybe he starts trying to take over the world on less forcefull ways, like, making a company that sells product that, thanks to his genious, have higher quality then everything else and overtrow world economy and gains more influence then any president or country leader worldwide.
Something else that must be noted is just how... _scholarly_ Eggman is when discussing the ancients. We're used to him egomaniacally scheming, but here he displays a scientist's wonder at uncovering something new and unexpected. The Egg Memos depict a calmer side of Eggman. The part of Eggman that loves to tinker and learn, experiment and explore.
Eggman treats his robots like tools He treats Orbot and Cubot like slaves He treats Metal Sonic like a dog he's proud of But when it came to Sage, he treated her like his own daughter
This is why the egg memos were AMAZING. The more you buy, the more you see how Eggman gets attached to his daughter, and even addresses himself as her father. I was so upset when there was no egg memos left.
Yeah, it was such a shame that the game make you need to FRICKING fish to be able to hear them and not show the progress of the Eggman relationship with Sage in the cinematic during the gameplay
My interpretation of the whole thing is that Robotnik eventually realizes that Sage is the ultimate thesis for the world he is trying to create: a world where technology can achieve anything that nature can, and surpass it. In this case, it was creating a fully sapient artificial intelligence that, while dedicated to his cause, did so with compassion and empathy. If Eggman's paternal side was finally revealed, I'm sure his greatest goal is to now create a better world for his surrogate daughter. Of course, Eggman still being Eggman, that world is one where technology reigns supreme.
It’d be an interesting development for his motivations. Imagine he’d actually built Eggmanland, but a smaller scale, in a isolated area so Sonic doesn’t intervene, just to spend a day at a theme park with his daughter. As a one of story, I could see it. There’s even been fanart of them at Disney World funnily enough. Regardless, concerning his actions going forward, I could see Sage taking up the role of being Eggman’s “guardian Angel” in a way. She’d be his voice of reason, emotion, and an anchor for him whenever his plans/ego put himself in danger. Sage and Eggman would still combat Sonic, or maybe a common enemy with the blue hedgehog, but we’d probably see a softer side to Eggman now and then, to balance out his hard-boiled cruelty we know him for. Becoming more of an anti-villain, rather than just a villain of the week for his rival.
I actually believe that Sage's introduction will make Eggman more dangerous than ever. As for the first time in his life he has someone to fight *for* rather than against. In prior installments, it seems like fighting Sonic is the only thing that really gave his life meaning. He doesn't even do anything with the power he gains when he succeeds in defeating him and making his empire. But now? he has motivation and a reason to conquer, to give Sage a life he never could have. He's made many enemies, and unless he conquers the world, Sage will always be at risk. The scariest part about Sage's existence, is the fact she *is* that heart of eggman, his daughter. The one thing he'd be willing to sacrifice his own life for by this point. And that could very well... lead Sage... to become *The End*.
I can only imagine if a secondary antagonist legitimately threatens Sage, and Eggman turning to give a line read that could rival, "Begone... before I make mincemeat out of you..." We've only really seen cold blooded rage from Eggman once, and with Sage, Eggman now has the potential to have that happened again.
I don't believe Sage would let Eggman get that far, I feel like if Sage does indeed become a recurrent character she will become more of a positive influence on Eggman than Eggman would become eviler as he now has something to protect. I think that the Sega team might be leaning toward attempting to humanize him, as we do currently live in the age of "Sympathetic/Redeemed Villains" of media.
One interesting, little-discussed element of the Mario/Sonic rivalry is that when it comes to the respective villains, Bowser and Robotnik, the latter has always been portrayed as in many ways the more monstrous of the two. Even as early as the 90s, the Super Mario Bros 3 cartoon humanized Bowser with his parental affections for his Koopa Kids, whereas over in SatAM, Robotnik was a legitimately terrifying monster who frightened audiences almost as much as he did his enemies. In the games, Bowser continued to display a soft spot to varying degrees, with titles like the Super Mario RPG, the Paper Mario series and the Mario & Luigi series doing much to cement him as a loveable lug of a bad guy. Meanwhile, Robotnik just went from one atrocity to another. So it's interesting to see Frontiers making him, well, just a little more Bowser-like.
There's a lot of reasons why Nintendo fans love Bowser. Not just as a villain but as a character. He's the face of the Nintendo switches parental control for a reason. Yet I'm always excited to face him in that fight or to watch him wreck something as well as struggled as a father or the leader to his kingdom!
Would be interested to see how sage and Junior interact in the next Olympic game. Considering that eggman and bowser get along wonderfully together (which is interesting considering how bowser hate sharing the villain role or playing second to anyone)
On the topic of Bowser and Eggman, something I wanna mention: Dream Team. Eggman has CONSTANTLY been betrayed by beings he’s tried to enslave or control. Chaos, Gamma, Shadow, Metal Sonic at least once, Omega, Dark Gaia, the Hard-Boiled Heavies, the Deadly Six, I’m honestly shocked Time Eater and Infinite didn’t do the same. In Dream Team, Antasma offered an alliance with Bowser, a significantly dumber character than both Antasma AND Eggman. Near the end of the game, Bowser outright turns on him, leaving him in the dust and taking over. Bowser has that one up on Eggman, and I think that’s hilarious.
Ikr? We get just enough to care about them, but that sacrifice Sage makes in the end could have been more impactful if they had more screen time together. Also, can't wait to play as Tails later on this year
@@AceCardGaming honestly, that scene was cringe as heck, if we just had sage crying and just a piano in the background, it would be more impactful, but the "lalala" simply breaks anything that this scene was trying to make, it felt so generic to me, and the singer even misses some notes, it's just so amateur, i think if this scene were purely focused on just showing sage crying, rather than showing flashbacks of cutscenes that hold nothing of emotion, would make the player feel the mood much more effectivelly.
Disagree with you on Sage, I absolutely can see her following eggman in his future schemes, it's not like Sage ISN'T aware of his entire campaign history and yet it didn't bother her, her love and loyalty is with Father Eggman, not the rest of the world, he's why Sage sacrificed herself. And it's not like fictional villains haven't had a family member(or someone unrelated) that they care about, it hasn't stopped their villainy. And besides all of that, Flynn said that "some form of Sage came back under Eggman's guidance", and was talking about how she might be darker in some ways.
You are 100% right that having someone they care about doesn’t automatically break a villain. But in the context of Eggman’s established character for 30 years, it is a radical change. Also, my point on Sage and her willingness to be evil stems from how she grew to like Sonic and his friends. If she was purely like Eggman, she would have used him without caring about him.
Even if Sage ends up mostly falling into line with Eggman's policies for his sake, as long as she remains uncomfortable with being unabashedly evil it's entirely possible that he actually tones them down over time to avoid upsetting her. Basically he'd drag her down and she'd drag him up and they'd meet somewhere in the middle where Eggman isn't an irredeemable tyrant and Sage isn't a saint but together they become a more humanized and reasonable dynamic duo in the future. I see this change as trying to establish Eggman as less of a pure villain who Sonic can easily oppose on moral grounds of good versus evil but rather as an antagonist who Sonic opposes merely due to conflicting values of order versus freedom. For example: Eggman's relationship with Sage could end up making him less spiteful and have actual standards but it wouldn't stop his lifelong dream of empire building. As Eggman was up until this point, we know an Eggman Empire would have been a brutal and dystopian regime. However, if he changes his ways due to Sage's influence it would become a more morally grey conflict since Eggman's genius really could make some positive impact on the world in exchange for giving him control over it.
@@AceCardGamingtechnically Eggman was shown to be caring towards his family ever since SA2 as he genuinely respected his grandfather seeing him as a great scientist worthy of respect. So him caring about Sage isn’t that much of a stretch
I'm just realizing now that we don't actually fight him in Sonic Frontiers. But listening to his dialogue in this game really gives you context of how spiteful he is, and rightly so because he wasn't given as much love and attention as Maria.
There! This is what I've been talking about concerning Gerald and my lack of sympathy toward him! Maria got gunned down by G.U.N. and he blames the WHOLE WORLD for it! That includes his own son (little Ivo's dad) and/or grandson (little Ivo himself), depending on which of them was alive at the time! I mean, did he HATE his son who fathered Ivo? Did he DISOWN him?! He said Maria meant everything to him; that coupled with the fact that he was willing to destroy everyone on the planet who had NOTHING to do with Maria's death means that that is what he thought about his son and/or grandson, NOTHING!
@@videogollumer Honestly , i still think if Maria was arround, he wouldn't be a bad guy at all. As he said, his grandad was his hero at the time, and so everything fell because of G.U.N gunning everyone down due the ultimate life form proyect. That includes innocents like Maria.
@@SenseiRaisen You don't get it; Gerald had a god complex! He may have been well meaning and compassionate once, but he was far from humble! He wanted to help humanity, but he always thought himself superior to them because of his intellect. He wanted to better the world in the way that he saw fit. When G.U.N. killed Maria and shut down Project Shadow, he blamed humanity, not just G.U.N. With his speech, he wasn't merely swearing revenge; he was passing judgment on humanity. He was all, "Humanity, I've tried to preserve your lives; but you've rejected salvation through my genius and persecuted me by taking my granddaughter way! You are, therefore, only fit to be destroyed!". His ego led him to believe that his smarts made him a god and that he had a right to pass his irrational judgment on all of humanity for supposedly rejecting the help he was trying to bring. THAT is what is so disgusting about him!
Ironically, it was him who was writing him so INHUMAN in the comics. Seriously! Archie Eggman during Issues 160 to 251 and IDW Eggman during the Metal Virus Saga were so inhuman that they had ought to have been HANGED!
@@videogollumerTo be honest , I like the idea of Robotnik refusing his humanity because the main trait of Robotnik is that he views machines superior to any living being and his goals are to conquer the universe and then turn all life in the universe into machines and cyborgs . So would it make sense if he had a mentality of a demon ?
Eggman was always and I mean *always* the main antagonist. But now after seeing how Ian Flynn wrote him in Frontiers and managed to do something impossible, I just can't help but question: "Where are they gonna take Eggman now?! Surely there's no way on Earth he's gonna plot another scheme in the next game!"
I share your curiosity. Although, I’m sure he’ll definitely plot another scheme, I’m just not sure he’ll be the main bad guy. He rarely is these days 😅
I literally don't see why he wouldn't plot another scheme though, lol. The whole time he's in cyberspace he constantly talks about how he can use things to benefit his plans (i.e. the Master Emerald and Cyberspace), how Sonic and co keep getting in his way, everything he'll do once he gets out, etc. And Sage herself certainly doesn't care about this, considering she said that her core function was to serve Eggman, and she admitted to reviewing his entire history. He declared outright that he'd let her network his robots. What indication is there that she's _not_ onboard with his plans to conquer the world? Like, yeah, she won't let the planet be destroyed (mainly because it would endanger her father), and she probably would speak out against him doing something stupid, but there's no reason to think she's above helping him kill people to meet his goals. At least, as far as I can tell.
@@DLxxx yup frontiers didnt change much of eggman personalaty he just finaly criated something that he considered as valuble as him ( he sees humans as infirior cos they are dumb ( he also as been friendly to tails and shadow on some moments)
The answer is quite simple... Eggman will be more dangerous now than ever... because now he has something to fight *for*. Sage now gives him a reason to conquer the world for more than just, he can, or, he wants an empire. He has more motivation than ever to do these thing in order to ensure Sage is safe.
The writing in this game was so good. No joke, I was so happy when I saw Ian Flynn's name in the credits. Him and his team did such a great job explaining while Eggman didn't hate Maria, being neglected had a major effect on him. Especially since he really respected his Grandfather despite of all this. Sage going from obedient program to his digital daughter and voice of reason really did wonders for his character. It has the same effect like Bowser and his kids. They made still be evil and mischievous but at the end of the day, they're still fathers that love their families.
@@bakedbeans5494 ugh. You again. Your opinion needs improvement. Have you just been going to every sonic frontiers video to trash Ian Flynn? You must have a personal rivalry with him from childhood or something for you to hate him so much
@@bakedbeans5494 I have a base for my accusations. 2 in fact. 1 is that I've seen you in multiple comments per video dedicated solely to trashing Ian's work and worth to the sonic team, even claiming you should be in charge cuz you could do better. 2nd is that the fan base just generally agrees that Ian is a total badass who's single handedly saving sonic's legacy every time he touches it. For the first time in at least a decade, people are finally hype and looking forward to the next sonic story. The bar was on the floor for so long, but now it's high and proud. You attempt to trash the work of a writing GOD. On what basis though? You're the one without one. What grand example do you have to show for backing up your claims? Maybe you just hate him because you're like me and wanted to be the one that saved a beloved childhood franchise, and can't stand that the glory is going to someone who beat you to it. But I can swallow that envy and be happy for them and the revived franchise I had no part in saving. There are others that still need saving anyway. One day I know I'll be the first one to that task, so until then, enjoy the saved sonic, and look forward to maybe being the savior of another neglected franchise you love. If you truly got the dedication, you'll get there, even if it takes forever starting from dirt poor peasantry like me. Put everything you got into your dreams despite what anybody says to bring you down. It's the reason my company is named the way it is. I'll show them all some day...
Do you think from here on out Eggman will be like Red Death from Venture Bros. where he can still be an absolutely despicable human being while also being a caring father?
@@oogabooga265And I'm all in for it! Personally, it does make sense to me that even the most hateful of villains would have SOMEONE who they genuinely love and care, *it's just that love and care is reserved to that special someone only, the rest of the world can still go to hell for all they care.* 🤣
Yes. I do think humanizing Eggman is a good thing. People seem to forget that even the most seemingly heartless, horrible, narcissistic, and cruel individuals are still human beings, and this is a good way to remind people of that. Usually those horrible actions are a result of bad decisions and childhood trauma... it doesn't justify the actions, of course, but mental problems like narcissism and sociopathy CAN be cope-able (not curable, necessarily... but cope-able) with proper therapy to help reduce the harm it causes.
A full sociopath can not be cured *at all* they have a physical defect in the the midbrain that causes them to not feel anything for others. Basically they are running completely on lower reptile brain emotions. However this is a spectrum, some just have reduced empathy, but in cases where they have none, there is literally nothing you can do to fix them.
@@atomicskull6405 I know it can't be cured, I specifically said so in the comment... but if they are aware of the problem they can reduce its negative impact on others. Therapy can help them learn to manage it better, but it will never go away.
@@lasercraft32 No therapy just makes them worse and more manipulative. It only teaches them how to fake it better. They don't care about negative effects on others, they care only about themselves.
@lasercraft32 I see no sociopathy in him, at least till Dream Team (where Ian jerked off team completely evil Eggman and his own version from Archie comics). I loved the portrayal in adventure 2, in 2006, unleashed and lost world. I love portrayal of kinda anti villain Eggman, how he sees Sonic as rival rather than pest to exterminate, how he was portrayed in Sonic x. It made him something interesting, because I overall love stories of made villains (like Megamind was turned into villain by society), Eggman was turned into narcissistic person by his uncaring negligent parents who made him feel inferior in comparison with his saintly cousin. But my opinion is veeery not popular in fandom, if even someone shares that at all. I have seen psychopath characters in other media and one of such was presented as good guy and author selfinsert (Ayin from Lobotomy corporation), this man has no conscience or emotions or reflections regarding his actions
I just like it when Eggman's treated seriously. This look into the more almost vulnerable and emotional side is really nice but I don't know if I'd want that all the time, could be a bit tiring
Maybe not all the time, but Eggman getting more serious, emotional moments of vulnerability every now and then to show his more human side would be nice. Mike Pollock’s performance as the doctor in more serious scenes adds a sense of deep reflection when vulnerability comes from a man that can be as heartless as his robotic creations.
I love seeing this more human side to Eggman and it''s not totally out of left field for him to have his softer moments. At the end of SA2 he opened up to Tails about how much he admired his grandfather, and in Lost World he protected Tails from Cubot with seemingly no ulterior motive than just seeing he was in danger. He may never stop being a villain, but even so that doesn't mean he's without redeeming qualities. I enjoyed how his pridefulness towards Metal Sonic sometimes manifested in fatherly ways, particularly in IDW, and his treatment of Sage was basically that but tenfold.
In Sonic X he does have limits. He shows concern for Sonic when the Eggsterminator pummels Sonic into the ground. He also saves Sonic multiple times in Season 3.
And the time in the second season when Chris confronted him, he could have captured Chris or make fun of him but instead he empathized with him and even had a concerned expression.
Going off what Ian has said on the Bumblekast I don't think either Ivo or Sage will pull off a complete heel-face turn, just either become anti-villains (especially in the case of Sage) or have anti-villain elements added to their characters. (in the case of Eggman this time) Sage apparently will go several lengths just to please her beloved father according to Ian.
@@binkyboy448 Ian: "My thinking (regarding Sage and Eggman from Frontiers onward) is... this is only going to make him worse. You've seen what sort of devastation he's wrought just to fulfill his own needs. What happens when Daddy's Little Girl wants something?" Kyle: "Oh no...! Oh no...!" Ian: "What if Sage just decided she doesn't like the shape of that continent one day; it's illogical?" Kyle: "Oh no!" Ian: "With enough ordnance, he could bomb everything into the proper shape, now couldn't he?" Kyle: Oh no. Ian, what have you done? What have you done?! What have you brought on us?" Ian: "He throws out waves upon waves of robots that he's annoyed they'd get destroyed. But if Sonic were to... perhaps, possibly, slightly scramble the signal for his little precious angel, what do you think he's gonna do?" This was from Ian's BumbleKast (Bumbleking podcast, since his online alias is "Bumbleking") for December 12th, where he and Kyle "KyleJCrb" Crouse talk about various things. /watch?v=QIgske74X5M&t=1896s
Eggman being neglected as a child would definitely explain his egomania. It comes from a place of fragility. He NEEDS to slap his face in everything as a way to reaffirm his own importance. Likewise, he simultaneously craves the attention and adoration of others and deeply resents them for that dependency. Lastly, he surrounds himself with artificial entities designed to adore him, but who can't really converse with him as free agents. The end result is frustration. He's afraid to interact with flesh-and-blood people, and bitterly blames his robots for not being better company.
@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth The idea all the way in the Genesis Era was that Eggman believes that by mechanizing the world he'll improve it and can protect it from outside threats.
There is a certain tumblr post made by a cool guy I know of named Doctor Mechano and it goes over every game instance of Eggman's humanity Really shows how despite very much being an evil man he's not your usual villain, in the sence that he actually can care for lives of other people, but his drive to conquer is still very mcuh prominent
@szkraft220 Eggman's villainy comes from him being mankind as one character. Every one of us is or can be Eggman while the world we pollute or burn or shed blood has Sonic fighting back.
If Sonic Frontiers and Sonic Adventure 2 have shown anything, it's that the best endings could be the ones that are bittersweet and full of emotion. When the characters are allowed to transcend their "roles" and feel like people who can change and grow, you have something that's so much stronger than the saturday morning cartoon feel where everyone just moves from one adventure to the next. I'm super interested in where things go from here.
What if Eggman manages to get a part of Sage back, but ends up having to let her go again to something more tragic, thus making him even more cold and insane throughout the future games
Eggman often wants to make an amusement park as apart of his evil goals... now imagine him wanting to make an amusement park so his daughter could play at it when ever she wants. that would be precious
I actually had a sadder thought regarding the whole amusement park desire. Maybe before he began to dislike his cousin Maria, he wanted to build an amusement park for her for when his grandfather cured her and she traveled down from the ARK. But when he found out she died, he snapped and began to develop his narcissism and misanthropic tendencies. I think underneath all of that is the same kid who wanted to entertain and invent for a good cause.
@@ghhn4505 Eggman’s emotional moments really do feel genuine. Especially when you consider the fact the voice actor for the eggcentric Doctor has two daughters.
Even before Frontiers I loved Dr. Eggman. As a character he has always been a joy to watch in many of the incarnations. Whether it be the monstrous and in human maniac he was in SATAM or the goofy Saturday morning cartoon villain in the form of Boom, he was always one of the best parts of the series. And this game just blew me away. I bought Sage's relationship with him immediately but I was so worried as I kept seeing Cutscenes of the game what Eggman felt of Sage. Would she have to betray him to save Sonic? Would he try to eliminate her for her foolishness or trying to become more than she was? Then the answer was given to me when he was saved by her and he said he was proud of her and showed great pride but also great thankfulness. I was left shocked. Eggman was actually showing this kinda fatherly energy to a creation. It blew me away and as the game progress up till the final cutscene I was just in awe and pure bliss with how adorable and touching they were in their father - daughter relationship. Heck they even broke one of my most hated rules which this franchise itself established by bringing her back after a touching death to make that lose the heart break. But I didn't care she came back and he was happy and that was all I needed. So for me it was the true gem of the story and characters in frontiers which is saying something given how good this game was with it's story and characters. I just hope they know what they were doing. I have no idea how you make Eggman this human and yet have him still try to hurt sonic and crew. I have no idea how you make Sage able to stand her father doing horrible things to people she grew to actually respect and care for. But at the same time I just want more interactions with Sage and Eggman as a adorable father daughter duo. So honestly I am left so curious of the future but I wanna say even with all this franchise has been and not been over this last decade I have hope. and I hope Sega and Flynn can keep making that hope stronger and stronger.
It was definitely a big risk; but probably needed when you realise they've started to exhaust what they could do with him. Being more narrative focused than the Mario series, with characters that grow & change; Eggman's kind of been stagnant in his growth for a while - which explains the difficulty they had been having with him in previous games. Even the fans realised to expect him to go through the whole 'discovers ancient weapon, gets betrayed, etc.' plotline every time now. This shift, though, opens new payhways & storylines for him, as well as new dynamics between him and the cast. Considering the amount of times he's teamed up with the main cast, as well as some other background elements, etc., it feels like a natural place for him to go. He may slowly change into more of an Anti-Villain type; still aimed at world domination, but now with a code that's driven by SAGE. Still opposed to Sonic & co, but now maybe less willing on collateral damage. Meanwhile new characters take on recurring villainous roles, which on reading both archie and IDW comics, I've really been wanting in the games for a while now. Truly interested in where they take the franchise next!
I actually think it could lead Eggman do be even more cold blooded in the future, especially if Sage is threatened again. We've only seen cold blooded rage from Eggman during Sonic Adventure with the, "Begone... before I make mincemeat out of you..." line read. I can only imagine what Eggman would do if a secondary antagonist legitimately threatened Sage.
@ApexPredator1000 You don't get Eggman if you think he'll suddenly be less of a villain. He was always a representation of mankind who believed by conquering the world he can build a utopia. He actually did little on Sage's insistence he wouldn't do better like team-up with Sonic against a mutual threat. The Eggman is not some embodiment of darkness Sonic needs to defeat like he's Aragorn or Tony Stark. The Eggman is us and Sonic is the wild always fighting us when needed yet working with us since we have as much of a place in it as the boar or the bee or the fish or etc.
I've been wanting to see this side of Eggman again since SA2. I don't think I've ever seen him as pure evil. Even growing up playing Sonic on the Genesis, Eggman is such a whimsical villain (I mean this guy almost compulsively builds casinos, carnivals, and amusement parks...) with such a specific goal in mind, his evil ambition always seemed to be more about the spectacle than actually wanting to rule, at least in my eyes. Its been about making a scene, doing things in ways that bring infamy, and slapping his name on it- Eggmanland. Its brought up on occasion that Eggman seems to have a lot of respect for Sonic, and there's a very real argument for the idea that "defeating Sonic" is a benchmark he's set with regards to being on the right path to infamy. The Riders games interpretation of him, hosting Extreme Gear tournaments and running massive robotics manufacturing corporations, combined with how often he ends up begrudgingly helping save the world from something he's unleashed, reinforce this to me. Forces aside, he's not a villain because he wants to hurt people, he's a villain because he feels he has something to prove, and he needs to make the biggest, evil-est spectacle possible to do it. The bits about envying Maria only reaffirm that to me. When you consider that E-102 is the design lineage the E-100 and E-1000 series followed rather than its significantly more upgraded brethren, and that Orbot and Cubot and Metal are still around in spite of how much trouble they actually end up giving him, I think its safe to say that he has somewhat of a soft spot for when his inventions take on surprising characteristics, even to his own detriment. Orbot and Cubot are relatable, they can be conversed with like people, but they're a complete pain in his eyes. Metal is exceedingly powerful and full of surprises but cold and prone to running amok. Sage is surprising, exceptional, AND relatable. She thinks for herself but cooperates and strategizes rather than running off the rails. She's the first time one of his creations engages with him, rather than just taking his orders with or without sass. It's probably the first time he's felt like he's genuinely had another person to work with.
My feelings on humanizing Eggman are very much mixed. On the one hand, the dynamic between him and Sage is very wholesome and I even cried after seeing the ending to Frontiers. As much as I'd love to see more of that kind of thing, it completely goes against the character that's been established over the last 30 years. Eggman is a narcissistic, megalomaniacal sociopath who has historically never cared about anyone and has committed numerous atrocities from enslaving animals to waging global war. Does someone like that even deserve redemption? Normally I would say no, but I'm so fascinated by the idea now that I can't help but be intrigued and get excited over how such an arc will play out. I just hope that the next game acknowledges everything that happened in Frontiers and develops its story from there, I don't want Eggman to do an about-face and, say, reprogram Sage to hate Sonic again and make her an obedient puppet that goes along with whatever heinous scheme he comes up with next.
I mean, I don't really see how it goes against his character: While Eggman is definitely an evil, narcissistic sociopath, he still has shown SOME degree of humanity, for exemple in sonic adventure 2 where he genuinely trusted Shadow and Rouge as teammates, and he seems to be (most of the time) SOMEWHAT loyal to people he teams up with,unless it's sonic. He also still saved Orbot and Cubot in Sonic Lost worlds when they were about to fall in lava and keeps them around with him despite them being completely useless and extremely annoying to him. He's definitely a terrible narcissistic human being, but he had somewhat decent moments throughout the games. (And, if you consider Mario and Sonic Olympic games to be canon, he and Bowser were genuinely good friends in all those games.) Also, him having a daughter and caring for her doesn't mean he'll be redeemed. Villains can have people they care about and still say "fuck you" to the rest of the world, examples being Bowser, who despite having shown to care for his son and his minions and to be in love with peach, still tried to TAKE OVER THE UNIVERSE, TWICE. This just makes Eggman a bit more human, but it definitely won't stop him from still being a despicable person.
Frankly I always thought eggman deserved a bowser’s inside story game, just a moment where there’s something truly worse than himself, sonic & friends are no where to be found, and he has to be the hero because no one else will. Then at the end even while he enjoyed the moment on the light side he still prefers his usual role. And I don’t mean like in the other ensemble games where he’s just 1 in 6 or contracting out to chaotix I mean a game where the only choice is between him, and the hero who’s secretly pulling his strings.
@GrandmasterDevo He's not being redeemed and he was never darkness incarnate or an aberration. He is just mankind as one character. To dismiss Eggman is to condemn mankind.
DR ROMARKNICK ART LES GOOO To me, I think it’s just about time that he’s been humanized in such a way that Frontiers has done, hopefully being able to continue in the next game.
Shadow Meets Sage Sage: We're both black and red. And we're from the Robotnik's bloodline. Probabilities of a friendship, Shadow The Hedgehog. Shadow: **gasps** Maria: Shadow. Do you wanna be my friend? Shadow: **cries** Sage: Is there something wrong? Sage: Father. Shadow started crying when I asked him to be my friend. Have I done something wrong? Eggman: You remember Maria, right? Sage: Yes. Eggman: Well, he cried about an incident in my grandfather's house.
I could absolutely see Sage doing whatever Eggman asks of her, since that's what she's programmed to do. I actually really like that she's an AI that got a character arc, yet never broke its original programming at any point. She was made to protect Eggman and follow his orders, and she consistently does both for the entire game's runtime. I'm pretty sure she's the only case of that in all of fiction. I'm really looking forward to seeing her show up in later games.
Actually, Eggman's relations to Sage reminded me quite a lot Shredder and Karai relations, especially in 2002 TMNT series. There Shredder actually cares about Karai, but still demands obedience from her.
There actually is official artwork from Sonic Channel showing Eggman de-corrupting Sage's appearance around Christmas time. The first glimpse of Robotnik originating as a good person is seen with interpretations of his counterpart Kintobor. As for Bowser, he actually loves his son Junior. And he's loyal to his troops.
@@prufan In the game, if you look at Sage's model, her corrupted feet are wearing flat shoes. In the Christmas drawing, one of Sage's feet are no longer corrupted and her flats are visible.
I feel like this is going to become the Sonic version of Bowser and Bowser Jr’s dynamic. Eggman is gonna keep doing his thing, and Sage is actively gonna facilitate that, but at the same time there’s some “boundaries” the two might not overstep, and the two’s love for another is as genuine as anything. What will probably make this different from those two tyrannical turtles, though, is that the two’s relationship with the heroes will be different from one another. Sage being more respectful to the gang, even cordial to a point, while Eggman will continue his schtick of respect being as begrudging as possible.
I like the idea that Eggman has becomes the "accidentally unlocked an ancient evil" guy while on his quest to build a robot that can surpass his rival.
The more interesting games have thier one time villains, Black Knight as a narrative was the best to me cause you got to see nearly full force on how Sonic changes others for the better. They could make Eggman more of a rival than a villain to Sonic and bring some real nasty villains that we could say good riddance once we've dealt with them.
I think eggman is at his best when he fluctuates between games of being the primary villain, or being the catalyst for unleashing the primary villain through his meddling. Or even switching back and forth in the same game. It keeps things fresh
No, I don't think you need to worry. Sure it's different that eggman now has someone more than himself to care about but will he stop being a villain? No, villains can have family or those they see as family (Bowser and Bowser Jr are an example) if anything he will be even more motivated to build his empire now, especially since he now has an heir. And yes Sage may have learned something from sonic and his friends but despite that her loyalty and love belongs to eggman so she will be against his plans. No if anything she will help him maybe want him to be as safe as possible but yes she doesn't have an individual mind and soul, yet more one of logic and she only sees the positives of her creator and his dream.
Honestly, I think this is a fantastic addition to Eggman's character. They don't necessarily need to change how he operates in the future, as world conquest have always been his main drive. But now, that drive have evolved from "Building Eggman Land for my own ego" to "Building Eggman Land for my daughter" and let her take control of everything like he said. As for Sage, she also do not necessarily need to have second thoughts about helping Eggman hurt innocent people. While she grown to admire Sonic's selfless heroism, she genuinely love Eggman above all despite having the entire database of Eggman's countless atrocities in her head. I believe she can rationalize that violence and death are unavoidable in conflicts, but with her help, her father can achieve his goal with the least amount of casualties possible. And if it happens to went too far, she know Sonic will be there to save the day, and save her father from himself if need be. Hell, I could even see Eggman putting her on support duty and stay home to keep his base and army in shape while he went on to do his scheme of the week. He may very well be doing his best to keep her safe and out of *his* troubles, especially if he thinks his little girl would be disappointed or have any negative opinion in what he about to do. After all, we just learned Eggman seek approval of family. He also almost lost her once, so he isn't going to risk it a second time.
This is why I say that we're not seeing Eggman, we're seeing Ivo Robotnik. This is ivo showing true compassion and attention he's wanted since childhood
This was a very interesting take, I wonder where this could be taken, provided that they do follow up upon this, I hope they do, I will look forward to see what all of this will ultimately mean for the Franchise, SEGA better not screw it up. Also, I really liked the Egg Memos, it felt like we got to know a side of Eggman that we hardly, if ever, get to see, it was fascinating.
Bowser is actually a perfect parallel because we get introduced to his son Jr and at the end he wants to join in fighting Mario again so slSahe could easily soften Eggman around her but could also lead to new stories with her as a base like him taking a relic to give her a real body or even her helping in boss fights as controlling arenas to make fighting his robots more difficult.
Eggman’s psychology being elaborated on is why I love Ian’s writing. In IDW, you really get to feel his ego, how despite being oh so simple he is quite complex. Every scheme has basically just been a way for him to show off over anything else, he literally states that he could just easily carpet bomb Sonic but doesn’t because that isn’t how he wants to win. Every thing he does, every action, it is to guide the world into what he believes it should be like. Sage is just something to be added in to the pot
This is a different "branch" of humanization then you discussed in the video, but Sonic Adventure 1 has a hidden room behind the cockpit of the Egg Carrier that is basically an arcade rec room for the Doctor. It help solidify his goofier Japanese personality into the greater continuity and shows off his childish side.
It's really cool seeing bad guys like Eggman develope genuinely good relationships with another character. It allows for a lot more possible character interactions and always feels really sweet, especially when they see eachother as family like with this.
I see the fears about where would they take Eggman from here, and they're not unfounded. For example... [Spoilers for Shantae and the Pirate's Curse!] . . . In Shantae and the Pirate's Curse, main villain Risky Boots is forced to team up with Shantae and we begin learning more of her, humanizing her to the point that you could easily feel their dynamic changing. The game ends with Risky finding a new level of respect towards Shantae... But she immediately reverts on the next game, acting like the typical villain, and hasn't recovered since. My point here is, whatever they do with Eggman in the next mainline Sonic game, the events in Frontiers NEED to matter. They can't throw them away because they just need a bad guy.
I love the way you've analysed this relationship and really broken it down. I personally like this change in Eggman and I'm interested to see what they do in future games
Frontiers was the first Sonic game to break me to tears with it’s ending and credits theme didn’t help All she wanted was a family. A poor, lost and confused child just wanting to be with her father, just to do everything to save him and the world. The Final Horizon made me cry too because she finally got what she wanted, and hearing Eggman voice of relaxation and comfort to Sage just made it more happier.
The original formula of Sonic is that Eggman is destroying the environment and exploiting animal life for his own gain. He is a stand-in for all humanity. He represents the cleverness of humanity, yes, but also its arrogance. No matter what horrible things he's done though at the end of the day, he's still a human being. He's not a demon. He's not wholly evil. He has a heart. It's just eclipsed by his pride and greed. Is Eggman redeemable? If he is, then all of humanity is.
After watching your analysis (great job by the way), and seeing some of the Egg Memos I totally forgot, I mainly picked something up from the one about Maria. Originally I shrugged that one off since this was a game that didn't include Shadow (unless you count the mods), but maybe when he talked about how everyone focused on her, and when you pointed out Sage wanted a family like Sonic's when she saw him and Tails, I think maybe that's the reason why Eggman can't stand Sonic. That sense of family that Sonic was able to build over the years, and while he had his robots, they don't capture that feel of humanity. It's like if you ask an AI to say "I love you," they're programmed to do so. But if you ask a living thing (that speaks, of course), it has to be earned. And maybe that's what we never understood about Eggman that we could draw from the GOOD incarnations of Shadow or Movie Knuckles. That feeling of loneliness and isolation that a lot of people can connect to. But no matter what, I can't wait to see what the future holds for the Doctor and his Daughter.
Love this take on the character. Loved this game. Eggman being a dad was a concept I've really enjoyed with Metal and Eggette, so I'm incredibly happy to see it becoming a reality.
I watched your video this morning, my dude, and your take is so good. Humanizing a villain beyond their established role is a really good way to help tell a compelling story and Ian Flynn as well as the Japanese writers handled that task very well. Ian knows how to give depth to the characters, now if only they can loosen up on Shadow and allow him to be fleshed out again. Its time to step out of their comfort zone, quit being cowards and let the writers do whatever they want to do with him freely.
Humanizing Eggman is honestly something I’ve always wanted and his father daughter relationship with Sage is beautiful! I remember them saying that Forces will literally be the only time Eggman will ever get close to conquering the world. Which means all the other future Sonic games he’ll never get that close again and now that he’s got Sage I can see him getting a lot more softer as time goes on the more he spends time with her and maybe even his other creations too.
Honestly I like the idea of a evil man being a doting father. If you've ever seen the Venture Brothers show you'll know about Red Death. He's a super villain that basically looks like the Red Skull from Marvel. He's as evil as can be and is down right sadistic with his enemies. But at the same time he has a wife and family that he absolutely adores and is incredibly soft around to the point he seems like a normal guy. It doesn't detract from his evilness as, but it gives him more depth than just a mustache twirling villain. Which I feel like could be the same for Eggman.
I've never had the 'completely evil' sense for eggman. Rather, he was always evil for a purpose- stupidly selfish purposes, but a purpose. Not exactly evil for sake of evil- he never cared about causing misery for miseries sake. Everything was just a means to an end and the process didn't matter. He's always been my definition of chaotic neutral taken to the extreme- give them a goal and they will do anything in their power to achieve it, regardless of consequence. He does not care about hurting people, and nor does he care about not hurting them either. The only exception kinda being sonic- which I've got a theory about. Eggman has two main goals/desires that define him for me: 1. An overwhelming desire for recognition, validation, and praise. This manifesting in his various theme parks, attempts at conquering, and near-overwhelming displays of narcissism and vanity. He is the greatest, and wants to be seen and heard of as such. Many of his robots are far 'showier' than necessary too, often being weaker for it despite his obvious capabilities to make them better- the guy is probably the greatest genius of the planet after all (he's basically the only one with working space exploration, and the actual logistics of running his robot empire, manufactorums, and construction planning is ridiculous. That's not even mentioning how quickly he manages to break down and learn about different energy forms and how to apply them). This however, conflicts with his massive inability to understand social dynamics and other people. The guy just does not understand others; his ability to empathize is extremely restricted. I imagine his childhood combined with his genius culminated in this. His second desire I attribute to him is a craving for sheer power. He can never get enough of it. Whatever the reason he needs it, viscerally. (personally I think the cause of this desire is childhood abuse, or something similar. Robotnik as a word means worker or, if you follow its etymology, slave, which doesn't give a good light to his family history.) His quest for more and more power is never ending, and leads to his exploitation of nearly every single energy type/source he comes across or learns about, or knowledge stored and hoarded he wishes to get his hands on. From powerful items to powerful entities, he craves them all. Those two desires are what I've always viewed as the basis for why he acts like he does- not necessarily because he's evil for evil's sake, but because he lacks empathy and has specific goals. Then again, I know him mostly from Unleashed & Colors, a single anime/show that I don't remember the name of, and a few out of order comic issues. Never really watched the Sat-am stuff.
So I can see how this can actually lead to a very interesting story. Eggman will not give up his plans to conquer the world and create his Eggman empire but thanks to Sage he will be less evil about it. Maybe she convinces him that cruelty will just lead to rebellion, maybe she strokes his ego by saying that he would look better if his empire had the happiest, richest and healthiest people or maybe she just pleads with him to avoid unnecessary cruelty. Maybe a combination of all three. Ultimately he will not directly make the people he conquers his slaves but just have them work for him and in return he will pay them and treat them decently or maybe even good. His technology would obviously be capable of making the world a better place so he does just that. Now obviously he wouldn’t be a good person, while he treats those who surrenders fairly he will crush rebellion and destroy all resistance and frankly I think Sage would be fully ok with these terms. This might even start a form of character arc for Sage, when planning the infrastructure of the Eggman empire she compares it to the other civilizations in the world and concludes that objectively their is the superior civilization in any measurable way. With that in mind she is excited to help spread her father’s influence to not only help him but to make the world a better place but what she meets is resistance, every country, city or village they face resist them and even though she constantly tries to argue for the advantages to peacefully join them they still fight back and this makes her frustrated with people and starts to consider them stupid for not seeing the advantages of their rule. Then when Sonic is stopping them at any chance they get she will grow increasingly frustrated with him and ultimately become more and more like her father and more ruthless with their enemies including Sonic and his friends. If anyone has any complaints or additions please let me know.
I remember watching an impausive podcast months ago and the guest said something like "when you have a daughter it changes you" I dont remember what he said fully but see that Eggman did exactly that is crazy to think about
I love the video and eggman may be the most hated villain but in sonic frontiers eggman having a daughter named sage to keep him safe is something I didn't know about his pas
13:59 I dunno.... I would hold off on saying that. He WAS good at one point. And with how off the rails FFVII:R is getting with the ending. Where Sephiroth went back to his old speech pattern. And chose NOT to torture Cloud. AND the fact Square is making a prequel game with a teen Sephiroth. Starting to get Xehanort flashbacks here.... Anyhoo, with that bit of off topic-ness out of the way. I really liked how Eggman was portrayed in Frontiers. I'm hoping the story keeps going this route personally. Although, this is a double-edged sword. He was really likable in Frontiers. But as you said, he did some REALLY evil deeds before. And possibly will again after Frontiers. I kind of have a bad feeling he'll like, reprogram Sage or something to just hate Sonic and pals. Which... would put a major damper on Frontiers' characterization of Eggman....
Excellent video! It will definitely be interesting to see where Eggman goes from here and to see how it plays out! Looking forward to more of your Frontiers thoughts!
I just finished watching this video and this was very well said. Yes how Robotnik is behaving in this game is very alien. He's always been evil to the bone. I mean in Sonic adventure 2 he appeared to show at least some form of sympathy because of how surprised he was about what his grandfather had planned on doing, but ultimately he only really help the good guys because it was a mutual interest to save the planet from destruction.
One thing to note is that Sage is still a villain, and by that I mean she's 100% loyal to Eggman. Sonic Team made sure to have her clarify this in the Final Horizon ending - in one of the first cutscenes, she tells Sonic that her one goal is to keep Eggman safe. He reminds her that the entire world is at stake here, and she proceeds to calculate that saving the world is now her priority, as 'it is his to conquer'. This creates an awkward silence, but Sonic just lets it go for now, as that's a different issue
I’m very late to the party on this one but I honestly think that making Eggman able to fight for someone other than just himself while still remaining completely evil is a genius idea that will give his character more diversity going forward. He can be the cool villain, the silly villain, the manipulator, the horrifying monster, and all the things he was before, but now he can also be the villain who takes a day off of world conquest because it’s his daughter’s 7th birthday. We’ve seen through Murder of Sonic that he’s still just as vicious as ever, he now just has a family unit that loves and supports him and vice versa. As for Sage, it seems she’s going to be happy with whatever Eggman wants to do, though she’ll probably end up being a lot more merciful and even sometimes help Sonic behind her dad’s back. It’s really exciting stuff.
My biggest question about humanizing Eggman is, how are they gonna walk back him trying to effectively nuke the earth with the power of the sun? Sonic Forces made him beyond cartoonishly evil, and it feels like Frontiers just wants us to forget that happened.
Heya Ace, I would whole heartedly recommend continuing to read the comic series, what is shown in there in regards to what happens to Eggman throughout it really does add to his humanization, it is possible that some events in the comics may have had a hand in what lead to his development in sonic frontiers. Perhaps even a hint of him wanting to be a good person who wants to love and be loved, but is just stuck being as he ever was because he enjoys being that way far too much to ever want to be better even for his own sake.
I think there's some comedy potential in Sage still loving and following Eggman but also being friends with Sonic & Co., and so she sort of regularly manages truces between them.
7:55 is the reason why some people believe the IDW comics to be effectively canon because we see that he made Belle and when sonic confronts him during the metal virus and he reflects on his time with amnesia as his persona of Mr. Tinker u can see him reflecting on his time with Belle and him blowing off that feeling of longing for love and family but the seeds were sown and later on Sage would be made
I love this father - daughter relationship (I cried in the end) I just hope that he doesn't lose his cool of being the main villaing and being a big menace because of "bad guy, good dad" trope. For example, I like how he was portrayed in the IDW comics (like in Metal virus saga and issue#50)
Nice video! Thank god this video appeared in my Up next section! You seriously have a lot of potential my friend! I wish you great amounts of happiness and success! :)
I don't know, I actually really like the subversion of "the villains/antagonists ALSO have the power of love/friendship on their side!". Because hey- in real life, people have facets, are three-dimensional. They can be terrible overall, but also love kids and animals for example.
@@AceCardGaming Sure. If they do it right, it could be really interesting to see! I'm cautiously optimistic, because all the other characters were very well-written in Frontiers, so if they keep up this direction... Then I trust them with Eggman too.
honestly I'd really like to see Eggman get a sort of redemption arc of sorts as long as it's done well. Like in the IDW Transformers arc that see's Megatron join the Autobots, at some point he ends up on Necroworld which is essentially a planet sized memorial. for every life someone has taken a flower is planted around a statue of them. and Megatron's has thousands. Like I don't expect Eggman to ever be fully "Team Sonic" but to see him try to be a better man could be very interesting
i mean i think Eggman is mostly a Monster, but i can see how he changed he helped Shadow and proves respect for Sonic Tails ecc His relationship with Sage is pretty understandable
I think in order to reset eggman to the evil status quo for the next game the writers will probaly make eggman reprogram the new version of sage to dislike sonic.
Thing about Eggy is that he's always been a representative of humanity since the very first game. Of the worst aspects? Sure, very much so. But always human. Egoistical, megalomaniacal, self-absorbed and narcissistic, yet undeniably a human. A person. Even since the Adventure games, particularly SA2, we've know that he's not entirely devoid or incapable of positive interactions with others, let alone feeling love and/or admiration. Him finally cracking out of his shell with his most impressive creation yet, one that actually manages to impress him and succeed, is nothing more than an extension of that. His love may come from a twisted perspective of ego-stroking, but its still love and appreciation for Sage.
Yeah, I don't hate Zavok but I doubt he wants anything to do with Eggman, let alone enough to team up with him for a race. Besides, now Team Eggman can have the proper roles filled out: Metal for Speed, Sage for Flight, and Eggman for Power (Dude did punch an ice wall to bits and is classified as a Power type character in the Olympic games).
i legit started crying at the end of the game when eggman looked so defeated. it was heart wrenching. and then too have Dear Father start playing RIGHT AFTERWARDS. my heart can't take it.
If you were reading the comics you'd probably realize who tangle was when she was mentioned but the fact that she was mentioned means that frontiers is probably way after the metal virus and probably imposter syndrome in the comics meaning that we actually have some reason as to why Eggman softened up. Basically he lost his memory for a while and became a loveable little guy named mr.tinkerer and made a daughter named belle so father/daughter complex set up and during metal virus and imposter syndrome 3 new villains are introduced dr.starline aka eggmans assistant for the metal virus and starlines creations surge and kit aka the sonic and tails copycats. If your wondering who tangle is still their just someone sonic met during the metal virus arc. Also mecha's back thanks to the scrapnik island comics.
I see eggman in like colors and lost world doing evil shit but its more comedic, but its oddly tame when you remember in the early tv shows he was robotocizing civilians like thats actually crazy
I'm not a fan of whole Father/Daughter thing with sage and eggman, it doesn't feel natural considering how eggman has been consistently portrayed as a selfish, self-serving evil genius. Like all of a sudden Eggman genuinely cares about a creation he made and we are supposed to accept that despite years of history showing that's just not who he is as a character? It just feels forced and arbitrary for the sake of the plot of the game. A much better dynamic that's more in line with his character is if Eggman has no genuine emotional attachment to sage but values her capabilities and sees her kinda like his favourite guard dog or reliable servant, someone who he can trust important tasks to kinda like metal sonic in the IDW comics. Like if she were to get destroyed he wouldn't be sad about it but be moreso mad since his favourite toy got broken and he has to fix it again. We can even have this whole thing where Sage genuinely cares about Eggman and wants his approval but he only sees her as a useful tool yet she still sticks with him regardless. Heck in a future story she could have a rivalry with metal sonic over who's eggman's favourite, maybe wanting to get rid of him so she has no competition. It could even be a thing where eggman while normally paying attention to sage whenever he deploys metal sonic his attention shifts to him primarily and it could parallel how eggman's relatives ignored him in favour of someone else when he was young.
Thought: Sonic team could be phasing Eggman into the type of "ex-villain rival" character that HAL labs did for King Dedede, or Alphadream did for Bowser in the Mario & Luigi Series.
I think we seen some of this for him with Knuckles and Tails? He seemed genuinely sad and concerned about Knuckles at times, and he was a big brother and reassuring figure for Tails. (I’m Frontiers I mean) Sure it wasn’t the biggest deal, but it was a step in the right direction at the very least.
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Eggman having a daughter is shocking so I'm wondering about eggman's past and this is a impressive video ace card gaming!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! 🙂
Hey ace have you considered being a guest in the STC podcast ?
@@electricarmadillo8505 Sounds interesting! Do you have a link?
I think that if they continue on this new eggman, with sage on his side, he won't go as sociopathic as they did on previous games, maybe he starts trying to take over the world on less forcefull ways, like, making a company that sells product that, thanks to his genious, have higher quality then everything else and overtrow world economy and gains more influence then any president or country leader worldwide.
Something else that must be noted is just how... _scholarly_ Eggman is when discussing the ancients. We're used to him egomaniacally scheming, but here he displays a scientist's wonder at uncovering something new and unexpected.
The Egg Memos depict a calmer side of Eggman. The part of Eggman that loves to tinker and learn, experiment and explore.
Yep, its those moments that reminds us, the player, that Eggman is still a scientist with possibly multiple doctorates. He just fell to the dark side.
@@tronophono913 You mean the badass antagonist side ;3
Like a certain mr tinker 😉😉
The egg memos shows us who he is behind the evil and ego: a scientist whose curiosity is as vast as his intellect.
Within that sea of Ego, Mr. Tinker still shines through, not all of him, but his love for tinkering and his father instinct still remain.
Eggman treats his robots like tools
He treats Orbot and Cubot like slaves
He treats Metal Sonic like a dog he's proud of
But when it came to Sage, he treated her like his own daughter
Eggman is a villain but who would thought sage was his daughter?
@@mayracordero382 The writer and playerbase who caught what their interactions say.
What a change of heart this time.
Looks like a gradual progress to me.
Idw writers Metal more like a son tho
kinda
This is why the egg memos were AMAZING. The more you buy, the more you see how Eggman gets attached to his daughter, and even addresses himself as her father. I was so upset when there was no egg memos left.
Yeah I could've listened to another 20 of those haha.
I hope the DLC will add more.
Yeah, it was such a shame that the game make you need to FRICKING fish to be able to hear them and not show the progress of the Eggman relationship with Sage in the cinematic during the gameplay
@@dacknostrum When is that DLC coming anyway?
@@GrandmasterDevo I think the first wave is coming in the next couple of months, but I haven't looked it up myself.
My interpretation of the whole thing is that Robotnik eventually realizes that Sage is the ultimate thesis for the world he is trying to create: a world where technology can achieve anything that nature can, and surpass it. In this case, it was creating a fully sapient artificial intelligence that, while dedicated to his cause, did so with compassion and empathy. If Eggman's paternal side was finally revealed, I'm sure his greatest goal is to now create a better world for his surrogate daughter. Of course, Eggman still being Eggman, that world is one where technology reigns supreme.
It’d be an interesting development for his motivations. Imagine he’d actually built Eggmanland, but a smaller scale, in a isolated area so Sonic doesn’t intervene, just to spend a day at a theme park with his daughter. As a one of story, I could see it. There’s even been fanart of them at Disney World funnily enough.
Regardless, concerning his actions going forward, I could see Sage taking up the role of being Eggman’s “guardian Angel” in a way. She’d be his voice of reason, emotion, and an anchor for him whenever his plans/ego put himself in danger. Sage and Eggman would still combat Sonic, or maybe a common enemy with the blue hedgehog, but we’d probably see a softer side to Eggman now and then, to balance out his hard-boiled cruelty we know him for. Becoming more of an anti-villain, rather than just a villain of the week for his rival.
hm...makes sense
I'd be ok if he retired from being a villain to something that of a anti hero or going on a road of redemption and let something else take over.
What about belle from IDW comics?
@@garrettviewegh677 "Woman/girl has to be a check on a man's behavior" is not something Eggman needs.
I actually believe that Sage's introduction will make Eggman more dangerous than ever. As for the first time in his life he has someone to fight *for* rather than against. In prior installments, it seems like fighting Sonic is the only thing that really gave his life meaning. He doesn't even do anything with the power he gains when he succeeds in defeating him and making his empire.
But now? he has motivation and a reason to conquer, to give Sage a life he never could have. He's made many enemies, and unless he conquers the world, Sage will always be at risk. The scariest part about Sage's existence, is the fact she *is* that heart of eggman, his daughter. The one thing he'd be willing to sacrifice his own life for by this point. And that could very well... lead Sage... to become *The End*.
I can only imagine if a secondary antagonist legitimately threatens Sage, and Eggman turning to give a line read that could rival, "Begone... before I make mincemeat out of you..."
We've only really seen cold blooded rage from Eggman once, and with Sage, Eggman now has the potential to have that happened again.
@@nilok7 *cough cough* Dr. Starline *cough cough*
@@JustVince7810 If Dr. Starline did that, he wouldn't have had everything simply crushed.
WAIT A DAMN MIN-
I don't believe Sage would let Eggman get that far, I feel like if Sage does indeed become a recurrent character she will become more of a positive influence on Eggman than Eggman would become eviler as he now has something to protect. I think that the Sega team might be leaning toward attempting to humanize him, as we do currently live in the age of "Sympathetic/Redeemed Villains" of media.
One interesting, little-discussed element of the Mario/Sonic rivalry is that when it comes to the respective villains, Bowser and Robotnik, the latter has always been portrayed as in many ways the more monstrous of the two. Even as early as the 90s, the Super Mario Bros 3 cartoon humanized Bowser with his parental affections for his Koopa Kids, whereas over in SatAM, Robotnik was a legitimately terrifying monster who frightened audiences almost as much as he did his enemies. In the games, Bowser continued to display a soft spot to varying degrees, with titles like the Super Mario RPG, the Paper Mario series and the Mario & Luigi series doing much to cement him as a loveable lug of a bad guy. Meanwhile, Robotnik just went from one atrocity to another. So it's interesting to see Frontiers making him, well, just a little more Bowser-like.
There's a lot of reasons why Nintendo fans love Bowser. Not just as a villain but as a character. He's the face of the Nintendo switches parental control for a reason. Yet I'm always excited to face him in that fight or to watch him wreck something as well as struggled as a father or the leader to his kingdom!
There was also the Super Mario anime movie where Bowser was goofily trying to be romantic towards Peach while she was his prisoner.
Would be interested to see how sage and Junior interact in the next Olympic game. Considering that eggman and bowser get along wonderfully together (which is interesting considering how bowser hate sharing the villain role or playing second to anyone)
On the topic of Bowser and Eggman, something I wanna mention: Dream Team. Eggman has CONSTANTLY been betrayed by beings he’s tried to enslave or control. Chaos, Gamma, Shadow, Metal Sonic at least once, Omega, Dark Gaia, the Hard-Boiled Heavies, the Deadly Six, I’m honestly shocked Time Eater and Infinite didn’t do the same.
In Dream Team, Antasma offered an alliance with Bowser, a significantly dumber character than both Antasma AND Eggman. Near the end of the game, Bowser outright turns on him, leaving him in the dust and taking over.
Bowser has that one up on Eggman, and I think that’s hilarious.
And more than a little jarring imo
I think this is a good next step to his character. Even people like Eggman need to change in order not to feel stale and predictable.
Agreed. He definitely needs to grow, and evolve. But I’m not sure this is how I’d do it. I’m still super interested to see where it goes though!
@@AceCardGaming Same.
@gustavolobo2001 I too associate Eggman with worrying about a machine's pronouns.
This Eggman was cool. I just wish we'd gotten more screentime between him and Sage
Ikr? We get just enough to care about them, but that sacrifice Sage makes in the end could have been more impactful if they had more screen time together. Also, can't wait to play as Tails later on this year
Also, her scene with the whole “la la la” song would have been more impactful too. We needed a bit more I think.
There is always the story dlc
@@AceCardGaming honestly, that scene was cringe as heck, if we just had sage crying and just a piano in the background, it would be more impactful, but the "lalala" simply breaks anything that this scene was trying to make, it felt so generic to me, and the singer even misses some notes, it's just so amateur, i think if this scene were purely focused on just showing sage crying, rather than showing flashbacks of cutscenes that hold nothing of emotion, would make the player feel the mood much more effectivelly.
Disagree with you on Sage, I absolutely can see her following eggman in his future schemes, it's not like Sage ISN'T aware of his entire campaign history and yet it didn't bother her, her love and loyalty is with Father Eggman, not the rest of the world, he's why Sage sacrificed herself.
And it's not like fictional villains haven't had a family member(or someone unrelated) that they care about, it hasn't stopped their villainy.
And besides all of that, Flynn said that "some form of Sage came back under Eggman's guidance", and was talking about how she might be darker in some ways.
You are 100% right that having someone they care about doesn’t automatically break a villain. But in the context of Eggman’s established character for 30 years, it is a radical change. Also, my point on Sage and her willingness to be evil stems from how she grew to like Sonic and his friends. If she was purely like Eggman, she would have used him without caring about him.
@@AceCardGaming you say true
Even if Sage ends up mostly falling into line with Eggman's policies for his sake, as long as she remains uncomfortable with being unabashedly evil it's entirely possible that he actually tones them down over time to avoid upsetting her. Basically he'd drag her down and she'd drag him up and they'd meet somewhere in the middle where Eggman isn't an irredeemable tyrant and Sage isn't a saint but together they become a more humanized and reasonable dynamic duo in the future.
I see this change as trying to establish Eggman as less of a pure villain who Sonic can easily oppose on moral grounds of good versus evil but rather as an antagonist who Sonic opposes merely due to conflicting values of order versus freedom.
For example: Eggman's relationship with Sage could end up making him less spiteful and have actual standards but it wouldn't stop his lifelong dream of empire building. As Eggman was up until this point, we know an Eggman Empire would have been a brutal and dystopian regime. However, if he changes his ways due to Sage's influence it would become a more morally grey conflict since Eggman's genius really could make some positive impact on the world in exchange for giving him control over it.
@@kylepessell1350 this is a very interesting PoV
@@AceCardGamingtechnically Eggman was shown to be caring towards his family ever since SA2 as he genuinely respected his grandfather seeing him as a great scientist worthy of respect. So him caring about Sage isn’t that much of a stretch
I'm just realizing now that we don't actually fight him in Sonic Frontiers. But listening to his dialogue in this game really gives you context of how spiteful he is, and rightly so because he wasn't given as much love and attention as Maria.
And that's why Eggman won in Frontiers - he discovered the secrets of the Ancients and managed to control Cyberspace to the point of restoring Sage.
There! This is what I've been talking about concerning Gerald and my lack of sympathy toward him! Maria got gunned down by G.U.N. and he blames the WHOLE WORLD for it! That includes his own son (little Ivo's dad) and/or grandson (little Ivo himself), depending on which of them was alive at the time! I mean, did he HATE his son who fathered Ivo? Did he DISOWN him?! He said Maria meant everything to him; that coupled with the fact that he was willing to destroy everyone on the planet who had NOTHING to do with Maria's death means that that is what he thought about his son and/or grandson, NOTHING!
@@videogollumer Honestly , i still think if Maria was arround, he wouldn't be a bad guy at all. As he said, his grandad was his hero at the time, and so everything fell because of G.U.N gunning everyone down due the ultimate life form proyect. That includes innocents like Maria.
@@SenseiRaisen You don't get it; Gerald had a god complex! He may have been well meaning and compassionate once, but he was far from humble! He wanted to help humanity, but he always thought himself superior to them because of his intellect. He wanted to better the world in the way that he saw fit. When G.U.N. killed Maria and shut down Project Shadow, he blamed humanity, not just G.U.N. With his speech, he wasn't merely swearing revenge; he was passing judgment on humanity. He was all, "Humanity, I've tried to preserve your lives; but you've rejected salvation through my genius and persecuted me by taking my granddaughter way! You are, therefore, only fit to be destroyed!". His ego led him to believe that his smarts made him a god and that he had a right to pass his irrational judgment on all of humanity for supposedly rejecting the help he was trying to bring. THAT is what is so disgusting about him!
@@videogollumer yeah! probably thing would still be bad because of Gerald too. I guess... Ivo took a lot of Gerald as well.
Ian really made Eggman the most human he’s ever been in any sonic game ever.
Ironically, it was him who was writing him so INHUMAN in the comics. Seriously! Archie Eggman during Issues 160 to 251 and IDW Eggman during the Metal Virus Saga were so inhuman that they had ought to have been HANGED!
@@videogollumer IDW adaptations are always overly edgy. Just look at IDW Transformers
@@eeveeofalltrades4780 Even My Little Pony?
@@videogollumer Idk about the IDW MLP comics, but I think the show is edgy enough already
@@videogollumerTo be honest , I like the idea of Robotnik refusing his humanity because the main trait of Robotnik is that he views machines superior to any living being and his goals are to conquer the universe and then turn all life in the universe into machines and cyborgs .
So would it make sense if he had a mentality of a demon ?
Eggman was always and I mean *always* the main antagonist. But now after seeing how Ian Flynn wrote him in Frontiers and managed to do something impossible, I just can't help but question:
"Where are they gonna take Eggman now?! Surely there's no way on Earth he's gonna plot another scheme in the next game!"
I share your curiosity. Although, I’m sure he’ll definitely plot another scheme, I’m just not sure he’ll be the main bad guy. He rarely is these days 😅
I literally don't see why he wouldn't plot another scheme though, lol. The whole time he's in cyberspace he constantly talks about how he can use things to benefit his plans (i.e. the Master Emerald and Cyberspace), how Sonic and co keep getting in his way, everything he'll do once he gets out, etc. And Sage herself certainly doesn't care about this, considering she said that her core function was to serve Eggman, and she admitted to reviewing his entire history. He declared outright that he'd let her network his robots. What indication is there that she's _not_ onboard with his plans to conquer the world? Like, yeah, she won't let the planet be destroyed (mainly because it would endanger her father), and she probably would speak out against him doing something stupid, but there's no reason to think she's above helping him kill people to meet his goals. At least, as far as I can tell.
@@DLxxx yup frontiers didnt change much of eggman personalaty he just finaly criated something that he considered as valuble as him ( he sees humans as infirior cos they are dumb ( he also as been friendly to tails and shadow on some moments)
he didn't change Heart tho
he is still evil, just developed emphaty to someone He and Only He created
The answer is quite simple...
Eggman will be more dangerous now than ever... because now he has something to fight *for*. Sage now gives him a reason to conquer the world for more than just, he can, or, he wants an empire. He has more motivation than ever to do these thing in order to ensure Sage is safe.
The writing in this game was so good. No joke, I was so happy when I saw Ian Flynn's name in the credits. Him and his team did such a great job explaining while Eggman didn't hate Maria, being neglected had a major effect on him. Especially since he really respected his Grandfather despite of all this. Sage going from obedient program to his digital daughter and voice of reason really did wonders for his character. It has the same effect like Bowser and his kids. They made still be evil and mischievous but at the end of the day, they're still fathers that love their families.
The writing needs improvement.
@@bakedbeans5494 ugh. You again. Your opinion needs improvement. Have you just been going to every sonic frontiers video to trash Ian Flynn? You must have a personal rivalry with him from childhood or something for you to hate him so much
@@Subreon*Or he's just a hater that gets off of trolling and pissing off the fans of Ian Flynn.* Some people be like that. 😑
@@Subreon Handle disagreement instead of throwing baseless accusations.
@@bakedbeans5494 I have a base for my accusations. 2 in fact. 1 is that I've seen you in multiple comments per video dedicated solely to trashing Ian's work and worth to the sonic team, even claiming you should be in charge cuz you could do better. 2nd is that the fan base just generally agrees that Ian is a total badass who's single handedly saving sonic's legacy every time he touches it. For the first time in at least a decade, people are finally hype and looking forward to the next sonic story. The bar was on the floor for so long, but now it's high and proud. You attempt to trash the work of a writing GOD. On what basis though? You're the one without one. What grand example do you have to show for backing up your claims? Maybe you just hate him because you're like me and wanted to be the one that saved a beloved childhood franchise, and can't stand that the glory is going to someone who beat you to it. But I can swallow that envy and be happy for them and the revived franchise I had no part in saving. There are others that still need saving anyway. One day I know I'll be the first one to that task, so until then, enjoy the saved sonic, and look forward to maybe being the savior of another neglected franchise you love. If you truly got the dedication, you'll get there, even if it takes forever starting from dirt poor peasantry like me. Put everything you got into your dreams despite what anybody says to bring you down. It's the reason my company is named the way it is. I'll show them all some day...
Do you think from here on out Eggman will be like Red Death from Venture Bros. where he can still be an absolutely despicable human being while also being a caring father?
Perfect example of what ian flynn been alluding to
@@oogabooga265And I'm all in for it!
Personally, it does make sense to me that even the most hateful of villains would have SOMEONE who they genuinely love and care, *it's just that love and care is reserved to that special someone only, the rest of the world can still go to hell for all they care.* 🤣
Ie, Bowser.
or David Xanatos i.e. a lawful evil magnificent bastard.
I hope not.
Yes. I do think humanizing Eggman is a good thing. People seem to forget that even the most seemingly heartless, horrible, narcissistic, and cruel individuals are still human beings, and this is a good way to remind people of that. Usually those horrible actions are a result of bad decisions and childhood trauma... it doesn't justify the actions, of course, but mental problems like narcissism and sociopathy CAN be cope-able (not curable, necessarily... but cope-able) with proper therapy to help reduce the harm it causes.
A full sociopath can not be cured *at all* they have a physical defect in the the midbrain that causes them to not feel anything for others. Basically they are running completely on lower reptile brain emotions. However this is a spectrum, some just have reduced empathy, but in cases where they have none, there is literally nothing you can do to fix them.
@@atomicskull6405 I know it can't be cured, I specifically said so in the comment... but if they are aware of the problem they can reduce its negative impact on others. Therapy can help them learn to manage it better, but it will never go away.
I think you're insane.
@@lasercraft32 No therapy just makes them worse and more manipulative. It only teaches them how to fake it better. They don't care about negative effects on others, they care only about themselves.
@lasercraft32 I see no sociopathy in him, at least till Dream Team (where Ian jerked off team completely evil Eggman and his own version from Archie comics). I loved the portrayal in adventure 2, in 2006, unleashed and lost world. I love portrayal of kinda anti villain Eggman, how he sees Sonic as rival rather than pest to exterminate, how he was portrayed in Sonic x. It made him something interesting, because I overall love stories of made villains (like Megamind was turned into villain by society), Eggman was turned into narcissistic person by his uncaring negligent parents who made him feel inferior in comparison with his saintly cousin. But my opinion is veeery not popular in fandom, if even someone shares that at all.
I have seen psychopath characters in other media and one of such was presented as good guy and author selfinsert (Ayin from Lobotomy corporation), this man has no conscience or emotions or reflections regarding his actions
I just like it when Eggman's treated seriously. This look into the more almost vulnerable and emotional side is really nice but I don't know if I'd want that all the time, could be a bit tiring
Maybe not all the time, but Eggman getting more serious, emotional moments of vulnerability every now and then to show his more human side would be nice. Mike Pollock’s performance as the doctor in more serious scenes adds a sense of deep reflection when vulnerability comes from a man that can be as heartless as his robotic creations.
How dare you (sarcasm) team "he is evil because he is evil" will hear you😂.
Eggman should not have vulnerable side so they don't get offended 🤫
@wuba5456 Eggman was always supposed to have pathos and ideals of making an improved world.
I love seeing this more human side to Eggman and it''s not totally out of left field for him to have his softer moments. At the end of SA2 he opened up to Tails about how much he admired his grandfather, and in Lost World he protected Tails from Cubot with seemingly no ulterior motive than just seeing he was in danger. He may never stop being a villain, but even so that doesn't mean he's without redeeming qualities. I enjoyed how his pridefulness towards Metal Sonic sometimes manifested in fatherly ways, particularly in IDW, and his treatment of Sage was basically that but tenfold.
In Sonic X he does have limits. He shows concern for Sonic when the Eggsterminator pummels Sonic into the ground. He also saves Sonic multiple times in Season 3.
Sonic X Eggman is the best Eggman.
Let's not forget he snapped Sonic back to his senses when he became Dark quill Sonic.
@@LokiToxtrocityYou mean Dark Sonic?
And the time in the second season when Chris confronted him, he could have captured Chris or make fun of him but instead he empathized with him and even had a concerned expression.
@@theepic1944 Maybe.
Going off what Ian has said on the Bumblekast I don't think either Ivo or Sage will pull off a complete heel-face turn, just either become anti-villains (especially in the case of Sage) or have anti-villain elements added to their characters. (in the case of Eggman this time) Sage apparently will go several lengths just to please her beloved father according to Ian.
What did he say, exactly? And which video was it in?
@@binkyboy448 Ian: "My thinking (regarding Sage and Eggman from Frontiers onward) is... this is only going to make him worse. You've seen what sort of devastation he's wrought just to fulfill his own needs. What happens when Daddy's Little Girl wants something?"
Kyle: "Oh no...! Oh no...!"
Ian: "What if Sage just decided she doesn't like the shape of that continent one day; it's illogical?"
Kyle: "Oh no!"
Ian: "With enough ordnance, he could bomb everything into the proper shape, now couldn't he?"
Kyle: Oh no. Ian, what have you done? What have you done?! What have you brought on us?"
Ian: "He throws out waves upon waves of robots that he's annoyed they'd get destroyed. But if Sonic were to... perhaps, possibly, slightly scramble the signal for his little precious angel, what do you think he's gonna do?"
This was from Ian's BumbleKast (Bumbleking podcast, since his online alias is "Bumbleking") for December 12th, where he and Kyle "KyleJCrb" Crouse talk about various things.
/watch?v=QIgske74X5M&t=1896s
@@binkyboy448
Consulting the Master List I think it was in the BumbleKast for Dec. 12th.
@@SaiyanGamer95 Flynn does not control how the characters are seen in JP.
@@galten7361 I never said he did.
Eggman being neglected as a child would definitely explain his egomania. It comes from a place of fragility. He NEEDS to slap his face in everything as a way to reaffirm his own importance. Likewise, he simultaneously craves the attention and adoration of others and deeply resents them for that dependency.
Lastly, he surrounds himself with artificial entities designed to adore him, but who can't really converse with him as free agents. The end result is frustration. He's afraid to interact with flesh-and-blood people, and bitterly blames his robots for not being better company.
Well is not afraid of people, he hates people the guy is misanthrope
@@dr.ivorobotnik8910 | Fear is usually the source of hatred.
@@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth Not for him is a misanthrope because is egocentric
@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth The idea all the way in the Genesis Era was that Eggman believes that by mechanizing the world he'll improve it and can protect it from outside threats.
@@galten7361 Yes that’s what he wants when you putting it like that
There is a certain tumblr post made by a cool guy I know of named Doctor Mechano and it goes over every game instance of Eggman's humanity
Really shows how despite very much being an evil man he's not your usual villain, in the sence that he actually can care for lives of other people, but his drive to conquer is still very mcuh prominent
@szkraft220 Eggman's villainy comes from him being mankind as one character. Every one of us is or can be Eggman while the world we pollute or burn or shed blood has Sonic fighting back.
If Sonic Frontiers and Sonic Adventure 2 have shown anything, it's that the best endings could be the ones that are bittersweet and full of emotion. When the characters are allowed to transcend their "roles" and feel like people who can change and grow, you have something that's so much stronger than the saturday morning cartoon feel where everyone just moves from one adventure to the next. I'm super interested in where things go from here.
What if Eggman manages to get a part of Sage back, but ends up having to let her go again to something more tragic, thus making him even more cold and insane throughout the future games
I was thinking similar. Could well be their plan!
I think Eggman might make back ups of her after this scare just in case.
@@chaossnowkitsune6377 That's a really good idea!
Eggman often wants to make an amusement park as apart of his evil goals... now imagine him wanting to make an amusement park so his daughter could play at it when ever she wants. that would be precious
I actually had a sadder thought regarding the whole amusement park desire.
Maybe before he began to dislike his cousin Maria, he wanted to build an amusement park for her for when his grandfather cured her and she traveled down from the ARK.
But when he found out she died, he snapped and began to develop his narcissism and misanthropic tendencies.
I think underneath all of that is the same kid who wanted to entertain and invent for a good cause.
I wonder how Mike Pollock felt about the mustache-twirling scientist's sopposed new change of pace & direction when reading his lines.🤔
Either way, I think he pulled off this new direction for Eggman pretty well.
@@ghhn4505 Eggman’s emotional moments really do feel genuine. Especially when you consider the fact the voice actor for the eggcentric Doctor has two daughters.
@@garrettviewegh677 Funnily enough, if you include the IDW comics, Eggman also has 2 daughters now lol.
Even before Frontiers I loved Dr. Eggman. As a character he has always been a joy to watch in many of the incarnations. Whether it be the monstrous and in human maniac he was in SATAM or the goofy Saturday morning cartoon villain in the form of Boom, he was always one of the best parts of the series. And this game just blew me away. I bought Sage's relationship with him immediately but I was so worried as I kept seeing Cutscenes of the game what Eggman felt of Sage. Would she have to betray him to save Sonic? Would he try to eliminate her for her foolishness or trying to become more than she was? Then the answer was given to me when he was saved by her and he said he was proud of her and showed great pride but also great thankfulness. I was left shocked. Eggman was actually showing this kinda fatherly energy to a creation. It blew me away and as the game progress up till the final cutscene I was just in awe and pure bliss with how adorable and touching they were in their father - daughter relationship. Heck they even broke one of my most hated rules which this franchise itself established by bringing her back after a touching death to make that lose the heart break. But I didn't care she came back and he was happy and that was all I needed. So for me it was the true gem of the story and characters in frontiers which is saying something given how good this game was with it's story and characters. I just hope they know what they were doing. I have no idea how you make Eggman this human and yet have him still try to hurt sonic and crew. I have no idea how you make Sage able to stand her father doing horrible things to people she grew to actually respect and care for. But at the same time I just want more interactions with Sage and Eggman as a adorable father daughter duo. So honestly I am left so curious of the future but I wanna say even with all this franchise has been and not been over this last decade I have hope. and I hope Sega and Flynn can keep making that hope stronger and stronger.
It was definitely a big risk; but probably needed when you realise they've started to exhaust what they could do with him.
Being more narrative focused than the Mario series, with characters that grow & change; Eggman's kind of been stagnant in his growth for a while - which explains the difficulty they had been having with him in previous games. Even the fans realised to expect him to go through the whole 'discovers ancient weapon, gets betrayed, etc.' plotline every time now.
This shift, though, opens new payhways & storylines for him, as well as new dynamics between him and the cast. Considering the amount of times he's teamed up with the main cast, as well as some other background elements, etc., it feels like a natural place for him to go.
He may slowly change into more of an Anti-Villain type; still aimed at world domination, but now with a code that's driven by SAGE. Still opposed to Sonic & co, but now maybe less willing on collateral damage. Meanwhile new characters take on recurring villainous roles, which on reading both archie and IDW comics, I've really been wanting in the games for a while now.
Truly interested in where they take the franchise next!
Only Sonic fans can believe their own speculation.
I actually think it could lead Eggman do be even more cold blooded in the future, especially if Sage is threatened again.
We've only seen cold blooded rage from Eggman during Sonic Adventure with the, "Begone... before I make mincemeat out of you..." line read.
I can only imagine what Eggman would do if a secondary antagonist legitimately threatened Sage.
@ApexPredator1000 You don't get Eggman if you think he'll suddenly be less of a villain. He was always a representation of mankind who believed by conquering the world he can build a utopia. He actually did little on Sage's insistence he wouldn't do better like team-up with Sonic against a mutual threat.
The Eggman is not some embodiment of darkness Sonic needs to defeat like he's Aragorn or Tony Stark. The Eggman is us and Sonic is the wild always fighting us when needed yet working with us since we have as much of a place in it as the boar or the bee or the fish or etc.
I've been wanting to see this side of Eggman again since SA2. I don't think I've ever seen him as pure evil. Even growing up playing Sonic on the Genesis, Eggman is such a whimsical villain (I mean this guy almost compulsively builds casinos, carnivals, and amusement parks...) with such a specific goal in mind, his evil ambition always seemed to be more about the spectacle than actually wanting to rule, at least in my eyes. Its been about making a scene, doing things in ways that bring infamy, and slapping his name on it- Eggmanland. Its brought up on occasion that Eggman seems to have a lot of respect for Sonic, and there's a very real argument for the idea that "defeating Sonic" is a benchmark he's set with regards to being on the right path to infamy. The Riders games interpretation of him, hosting Extreme Gear tournaments and running massive robotics manufacturing corporations, combined with how often he ends up begrudgingly helping save the world from something he's unleashed, reinforce this to me. Forces aside, he's not a villain because he wants to hurt people, he's a villain because he feels he has something to prove, and he needs to make the biggest, evil-est spectacle possible to do it. The bits about envying Maria only reaffirm that to me.
When you consider that E-102 is the design lineage the E-100 and E-1000 series followed rather than its significantly more upgraded brethren, and that Orbot and Cubot and Metal are still around in spite of how much trouble they actually end up giving him, I think its safe to say that he has somewhat of a soft spot for when his inventions take on surprising characteristics, even to his own detriment. Orbot and Cubot are relatable, they can be conversed with like people, but they're a complete pain in his eyes. Metal is exceedingly powerful and full of surprises but cold and prone to running amok. Sage is surprising, exceptional, AND relatable. She thinks for herself but cooperates and strategizes rather than running off the rails. She's the first time one of his creations engages with him, rather than just taking his orders with or without sass. It's probably the first time he's felt like he's genuinely had another person to work with.
My feelings on humanizing Eggman are very much mixed. On the one hand, the dynamic between him and Sage is very wholesome and I even cried after seeing the ending to Frontiers. As much as I'd love to see more of that kind of thing, it completely goes against the character that's been established over the last 30 years. Eggman is a narcissistic, megalomaniacal sociopath who has historically never cared about anyone and has committed numerous atrocities from enslaving animals to waging global war. Does someone like that even deserve redemption? Normally I would say no, but I'm so fascinated by the idea now that I can't help but be intrigued and get excited over how such an arc will play out. I just hope that the next game acknowledges everything that happened in Frontiers and develops its story from there, I don't want Eggman to do an about-face and, say, reprogram Sage to hate Sonic again and make her an obedient puppet that goes along with whatever heinous scheme he comes up with next.
I mean, I don't really see how it goes against his character: While Eggman is definitely an evil, narcissistic sociopath, he still has shown SOME degree of humanity, for exemple in sonic adventure 2 where he genuinely trusted Shadow and Rouge as teammates, and he seems to be (most of the time) SOMEWHAT loyal to people he teams up with,unless it's sonic. He also still saved Orbot and Cubot in Sonic Lost worlds when they were about to fall in lava and keeps them around with him despite them being completely useless and extremely annoying to him. He's definitely a terrible narcissistic human being, but he had somewhat decent moments throughout the games. (And, if you consider Mario and Sonic Olympic games to be canon, he and Bowser were genuinely good friends in all those games.)
Also, him having a daughter and caring for her doesn't mean he'll be redeemed. Villains can have people they care about and still say "fuck you" to the rest of the world, examples being Bowser, who despite having shown to care for his son and his minions and to be in love with peach, still tried to TAKE OVER THE UNIVERSE, TWICE. This just makes Eggman a bit more human, but it definitely won't stop him from still being a despicable person.
Frankly I always thought eggman deserved a bowser’s inside story game, just a moment where there’s something truly worse than himself, sonic & friends are no where to be found, and he has to be the hero because no one else will. Then at the end even while he enjoyed the moment on the light side he still prefers his usual role.
And I don’t mean like in the other ensemble games where he’s just 1 in 6 or contracting out to chaotix I mean a game where the only choice is between him, and the hero who’s secretly pulling his strings.
@GrandmasterDevo He's not being redeemed and he was never darkness incarnate or an aberration. He is just mankind as one character. To dismiss Eggman is to condemn mankind.
DR ROMARKNICK ART LES GOOO
To me, I think it’s just about time that he’s been humanized in such a way that Frontiers has done, hopefully being able to continue in the next game.
Eggman and I certainly make for some beautifully evil art! 😅
Shadow Meets Sage
Sage: We're both black and red. And we're from the Robotnik's bloodline. Probabilities of a friendship, Shadow The Hedgehog.
Shadow: **gasps**
Maria: Shadow. Do you wanna be my friend?
Shadow: **cries**
Sage: Is there something wrong?
Sage: Father. Shadow started crying when I asked him to be my friend. Have I done something wrong?
Eggman: You remember Maria, right?
Sage: Yes.
Eggman: Well, he cried about an incident in my grandfather's house.
What if Sage meets Belle?
@@theepic1944 yeah... Since the IDW comics are Canon to the games that makes Belle Canon... I Wonder where she is...
I could absolutely see Sage doing whatever Eggman asks of her, since that's what she's programmed to do. I actually really like that she's an AI that got a character arc, yet never broke its original programming at any point. She was made to protect Eggman and follow his orders, and she consistently does both for the entire game's runtime. I'm pretty sure she's the only case of that in all of fiction. I'm really looking forward to seeing her show up in later games.
Actually, Eggman's relations to Sage reminded me quite a lot Shredder and Karai relations, especially in 2002 TMNT series. There Shredder actually cares about Karai, but still demands obedience from her.
There actually is official artwork from Sonic Channel showing Eggman de-corrupting Sage's appearance around Christmas time.
The first glimpse of Robotnik originating as a good person is seen with interpretations of his counterpart Kintobor.
As for Bowser, he actually loves his son Junior. And he's loyal to his troops.
can you send me a link to that artwork
@@jskywalker58 it's on goggle images just look up Eggman sage daughter.
Eggman wasn't de corrupting Sage, he was simply giving her shoes
@@prufan In the game, if you look at Sage's model, her corrupted feet are wearing flat shoes. In the Christmas drawing, one of Sage's feet are no longer corrupted and her flats are visible.
@@BlackFlash09probably thinking to hard
I feel like this is going to become the Sonic version of Bowser and Bowser Jr’s dynamic. Eggman is gonna keep doing his thing, and Sage is actively gonna facilitate that, but at the same time there’s some “boundaries” the two might not overstep, and the two’s love for another is as genuine as anything.
What will probably make this different from those two tyrannical turtles, though, is that the two’s relationship with the heroes will be different from one another. Sage being more respectful to the gang, even cordial to a point, while Eggman will continue his schtick of respect being as begrudging as possible.
Yeah eggman having someone to care and do evil together its a super cool idea
I like the idea that Eggman has becomes the "accidentally unlocked an ancient evil" guy while on his quest to build a robot that can surpass his rival.
I think we’re slowly building up to Eggman being a more minor antagonist with other villains being the main threat (kinda like what SA2 and 06 had)
The more interesting games have thier one time villains, Black Knight as a narrative was the best to me cause you got to see nearly full force on how Sonic changes others for the better.
They could make Eggman more of a rival than a villain to Sonic and bring some real nasty villains that we could say good riddance once we've dealt with them.
I think eggman is at his best when he fluctuates between games of being the primary villain, or being the catalyst for unleashing the primary villain through his meddling. Or even switching back and forth in the same game.
It keeps things fresh
@@shadowlycan3970 I agree, and also Eggman is always at his best when he’s unknowingly used as a pawn in a bigger villain’s scheme.
@@thegeth4293 true. Never let ‘em know your next move
@@shadowlycan3970 It (Sonic & the Black Knight) also showed Sonic's irreverence to authority/law and overall bohemian characterization.
No, I don't think you need to worry.
Sure it's different that eggman now has someone more than himself to care about but will he stop being a villain?
No, villains can have family or those they see as family (Bowser and Bowser Jr are an example) if anything he will be even more motivated to build his empire now, especially since he now has an heir.
And yes Sage may have learned something from sonic and his friends but despite that her loyalty and love belongs to eggman so she will be against his plans.
No if anything she will help him maybe want him to be as safe as possible but yes she doesn't have an individual mind and soul, yet more one of logic and she only sees the positives of her creator and his dream.
You’re right
Nah Sage will betray Eggman.
@@jalocool2807 Very wrong.
@@bakedbeans5494 You're wrong, Sage cannot and will not betray robotnik.
@@theepic1944 We're in 2024 and you still abide by localisation mistakes.
Honestly, I think this is a fantastic addition to Eggman's character.
They don't necessarily need to change how he operates in the future, as world conquest have always been his main drive. But now, that drive have evolved from "Building Eggman Land for my own ego" to "Building Eggman Land for my daughter" and let her take control of everything like he said.
As for Sage, she also do not necessarily need to have second thoughts about helping Eggman hurt innocent people. While she grown to admire Sonic's selfless heroism, she genuinely love Eggman above all despite having the entire database of Eggman's countless atrocities in her head. I believe she can rationalize that violence and death are unavoidable in conflicts, but with her help, her father can achieve his goal with the least amount of casualties possible. And if it happens to went too far, she know Sonic will be there to save the day, and save her father from himself if need be.
Hell, I could even see Eggman putting her on support duty and stay home to keep his base and army in shape while he went on to do his scheme of the week. He may very well be doing his best to keep her safe and out of *his* troubles, especially if he thinks his little girl would be disappointed or have any negative opinion in what he about to do. After all, we just learned Eggman seek approval of family. He also almost lost her once, so he isn't going to risk it a second time.
This is why I say that we're not seeing Eggman, we're seeing Ivo Robotnik. This is ivo showing true compassion and attention he's wanted since childhood
It’s why I like the quote from Jake from adventure time “just because he’s a bad man doesn’t mean he’s a bad father”
This was a very interesting take, I wonder where this could be taken,
provided that they do follow up upon this, I hope they do,
I will look forward to see what all of this will ultimately mean for the Franchise, SEGA better not screw it up.
Also, I really liked the Egg Memos, it felt like we got to know a side of Eggman that we hardly, if ever, get to see, it was fascinating.
Funny how the robotnik family always treat there daughter (or granddaughter) with more respect and love than there sons
Bowser is actually a perfect parallel because we get introduced to his son Jr and at the end he wants to join in fighting Mario again so slSahe could easily soften Eggman around her but could also lead to new stories with her as a base like him taking a relic to give her a real body or even her helping in boss fights as controlling arenas to make fighting his robots more difficult.
Well at least Bowser and eggman have something new to talk about at the Olympics.
Eggman’s psychology being elaborated on is why I love Ian’s writing. In IDW, you really get to feel his ego, how despite being oh so simple he is quite complex. Every scheme has basically just been a way for him to show off over anything else, he literally states that he could just easily carpet bomb Sonic but doesn’t because that isn’t how he wants to win. Every thing he does, every action, it is to guide the world into what he believes it should be like.
Sage is just something to be added in to the pot
This is a different "branch" of humanization then you discussed in the video, but Sonic Adventure 1 has a hidden room behind the cockpit of the Egg Carrier that is basically an arcade rec room for the Doctor. It help solidify his goofier Japanese personality into the greater continuity and shows off his childish side.
It's really cool seeing bad guys like Eggman develope genuinely good relationships with another character.
It allows for a lot more possible character interactions and always feels really sweet, especially when they see eachother as family like with this.
I see the fears about where would they take Eggman from here, and they're not unfounded. For example...
[Spoilers for Shantae and the Pirate's Curse!]
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.
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In Shantae and the Pirate's Curse, main villain Risky Boots is forced to team up with Shantae and we begin learning more of her, humanizing her to the point that you could easily feel their dynamic changing. The game ends with Risky finding a new level of respect towards Shantae...
But she immediately reverts on the next game, acting like the typical villain, and hasn't recovered since.
My point here is, whatever they do with Eggman in the next mainline Sonic game, the events in Frontiers NEED to matter. They can't throw them away because they just need a bad guy.
I love the way you've analysed this relationship and really broken it down. I personally like this change in Eggman and I'm interested to see what they do in future games
0:06 I can't unhear the anouncement from eggman in this scene now
“I got a announcement”
Eggman will always be an Antagonist, that doesn’t mean he’ll always be the Villain.
Agreed 👍
Frontiers was the first Sonic game to break me to tears with it’s ending and credits theme didn’t help
All she wanted was a family. A poor, lost and confused child just wanting to be with her father, just to do everything to save him and the world. The Final Horizon made me cry too because she finally got what she wanted, and hearing Eggman voice of relaxation and comfort to Sage just made it more happier.
The original formula of Sonic is that Eggman is destroying the environment and exploiting animal life for his own gain. He is a stand-in for all humanity. He represents the cleverness of humanity, yes, but also its arrogance. No matter what horrible things he's done though at the end of the day, he's still a human being. He's not a demon. He's not wholly evil. He has a heart. It's just eclipsed by his pride and greed.
Is Eggman redeemable? If he is, then all of humanity is.
After watching your analysis (great job by the way), and seeing some of the Egg Memos I totally forgot, I mainly picked something up from the one about Maria. Originally I shrugged that one off since this was a game that didn't include Shadow (unless you count the mods), but maybe when he talked about how everyone focused on her, and when you pointed out Sage wanted a family like Sonic's when she saw him and Tails, I think maybe that's the reason why Eggman can't stand Sonic. That sense of family that Sonic was able to build over the years, and while he had his robots, they don't capture that feel of humanity. It's like if you ask an AI to say "I love you," they're programmed to do so. But if you ask a living thing (that speaks, of course), it has to be earned. And maybe that's what we never understood about Eggman that we could draw from the GOOD incarnations of Shadow or Movie Knuckles. That feeling of loneliness and isolation that a lot of people can connect to. But no matter what, I can't wait to see what the future holds for the Doctor and his Daughter.
Love this take on the character. Loved this game. Eggman being a dad was a concept I've really enjoyed with Metal and Eggette, so I'm incredibly happy to see it becoming a reality.
I watched your video this morning, my dude, and your take is so good. Humanizing a villain beyond their established role is a really good way to help tell a compelling story and Ian Flynn as well as the Japanese writers handled that task very well. Ian knows how to give depth to the characters, now if only they can loosen up on Shadow and allow him to be fleshed out again. Its time to step out of their comfort zone, quit being cowards and let the writers do whatever they want to do with him freely.
Glad you enjoyed it Robin! Let’s hope it’s Shadow’s turn for a makeover next.
1:57 retro dreams (the song playing in the background) gives me nostalgia
Sage singing at the end credit got me in my feelings. That song is a vibe 🥺
Humanizing Eggman is honestly something I’ve always wanted and his father daughter relationship with Sage is beautiful!
I remember them saying that Forces will literally be the only time Eggman will ever get close to conquering the world. Which means all the other future Sonic games he’ll never get that close again and now that he’s got Sage I can see him getting a lot more softer as time goes on the more he spends time with her and maybe even his other creations too.
Honestly I like the idea of a evil man being a doting father.
If you've ever seen the Venture Brothers show you'll know about Red Death. He's a super villain that basically looks like the Red Skull from Marvel.
He's as evil as can be and is down right sadistic with his enemies. But at the same time he has a wife and family that he absolutely adores and is incredibly soft around to the point he seems like a normal guy.
It doesn't detract from his evilness as, but it gives him more depth than just a mustache twirling villain. Which I feel like could be the same for Eggman.
I've never had the 'completely evil' sense for eggman. Rather, he was always evil for a purpose- stupidly selfish purposes, but a purpose. Not exactly evil for sake of evil- he never cared about causing misery for miseries sake. Everything was just a means to an end and the process didn't matter. He's always been my definition of chaotic neutral taken to the extreme- give them a goal and they will do anything in their power to achieve it, regardless of consequence. He does not care about hurting people, and nor does he care about not hurting them either. The only exception kinda being sonic- which I've got a theory about.
Eggman has two main goals/desires that define him for me: 1. An overwhelming desire for recognition, validation, and praise. This manifesting in his various theme parks, attempts at conquering, and near-overwhelming displays of narcissism and vanity. He is the greatest, and wants to be seen and heard of as such. Many of his robots are far 'showier' than necessary too, often being weaker for it despite his obvious capabilities to make them better- the guy is probably the greatest genius of the planet after all (he's basically the only one with working space exploration, and the actual logistics of running his robot empire, manufactorums, and construction planning is ridiculous. That's not even mentioning how quickly he manages to break down and learn about different energy forms and how to apply them). This however, conflicts with his massive inability to understand social dynamics and other people. The guy just does not understand others; his ability to empathize is extremely restricted. I imagine his childhood combined with his genius culminated in this.
His second desire I attribute to him is a craving for sheer power. He can never get enough of it. Whatever the reason he needs it, viscerally. (personally I think the cause of this desire is childhood abuse, or something similar. Robotnik as a word means worker or, if you follow its etymology, slave, which doesn't give a good light to his family history.) His quest for more and more power is never ending, and leads to his exploitation of nearly every single energy type/source he comes across or learns about, or knowledge stored and hoarded he wishes to get his hands on. From powerful items to powerful entities, he craves them all.
Those two desires are what I've always viewed as the basis for why he acts like he does- not necessarily because he's evil for evil's sake, but because he lacks empathy and has specific goals.
Then again, I know him mostly from Unleashed & Colors, a single anime/show that I don't remember the name of, and a few out of order comic issues. Never really watched the Sat-am stuff.
So I can see how this can actually lead to a very interesting story.
Eggman will not give up his plans to conquer the world and create his Eggman empire but thanks to Sage he will be less evil about it. Maybe she convinces him that cruelty will just lead to rebellion, maybe she strokes his ego by saying that he would look better if his empire had the happiest, richest and healthiest people or maybe she just pleads with him to avoid unnecessary cruelty. Maybe a combination of all three.
Ultimately he will not directly make the people he conquers his slaves but just have them work for him and in return he will pay them and treat them decently or maybe even good. His technology would obviously be capable of making the world a better place so he does just that.
Now obviously he wouldn’t be a good person, while he treats those who surrenders fairly he will crush rebellion and destroy all resistance and frankly I think Sage would be fully ok with these terms.
This might even start a form of character arc for Sage, when planning the infrastructure of the Eggman empire she compares it to the other civilizations in the world and concludes that objectively their is the superior civilization in any measurable way. With that in mind she is excited to help spread her father’s influence to not only help him but to make the world a better place but what she meets is resistance, every country, city or village they face resist them and even though she constantly tries to argue for the advantages to peacefully join them they still fight back and this makes her frustrated with people and starts to consider them stupid for not seeing the advantages of their rule. Then when Sonic is stopping them at any chance they get she will grow increasingly frustrated with him and ultimately become more and more like her father and more ruthless with their enemies including Sonic and his friends.
If anyone has any complaints or additions please let me know.
I remember watching an impausive podcast months ago and the guest said something like "when you have a daughter it changes you" I dont remember what he said fully but see that Eggman did exactly that is crazy to think about
I love the video and eggman may be the most hated villain but in sonic frontiers eggman having a daughter named sage to keep him safe is something I didn't know about his pas
13:59 I dunno.... I would hold off on saying that. He WAS good at one point. And with how off the rails FFVII:R is getting with the ending. Where Sephiroth went back to his old speech pattern. And chose NOT to torture Cloud.
AND the fact Square is making a prequel game with a teen Sephiroth. Starting to get Xehanort flashbacks here....
Anyhoo, with that bit of off topic-ness out of the way.
I really liked how Eggman was portrayed in Frontiers. I'm hoping the story keeps going this route personally. Although, this is a double-edged sword.
He was really likable in Frontiers. But as you said, he did some REALLY evil deeds before. And possibly will again after Frontiers. I kind of have a bad feeling he'll like, reprogram Sage or something to just hate Sonic and pals. Which... would put a major damper on Frontiers' characterization of Eggman....
Excellent video! It will definitely be interesting to see where Eggman goes from here and to see how it plays out! Looking forward to more of your Frontiers thoughts!
I just finished watching this video and this was very well said. Yes how Robotnik is behaving in this game is very alien. He's always been evil to the bone. I mean in Sonic adventure 2 he appeared to show at least some form of sympathy because of how surprised he was about what his grandfather had planned on doing, but ultimately he only really help the good guys because it was a mutual interest to save the planet from destruction.
One thing to note is that Sage is still a villain, and by that I mean she's 100% loyal to Eggman. Sonic Team made sure to have her clarify this in the Final Horizon ending - in one of the first cutscenes, she tells Sonic that her one goal is to keep Eggman safe. He reminds her that the entire world is at stake here, and she proceeds to calculate that saving the world is now her priority, as 'it is his to conquer'. This creates an awkward silence, but Sonic just lets it go for now, as that's a different issue
I’m very late to the party on this one but I honestly think that making Eggman able to fight for someone other than just himself while still remaining completely evil is a genius idea that will give his character more diversity going forward. He can be the cool villain, the silly villain, the manipulator, the horrifying monster, and all the things he was before, but now he can also be the villain who takes a day off of world conquest because it’s his daughter’s 7th birthday. We’ve seen through Murder of Sonic that he’s still just as vicious as ever, he now just has a family unit that loves and supports him and vice versa. As for Sage, it seems she’s going to be happy with whatever Eggman wants to do, though she’ll probably end up being a lot more merciful and even sometimes help Sonic behind her dad’s back. It’s really exciting stuff.
My biggest question about humanizing Eggman is, how are they gonna walk back him trying to effectively nuke the earth with the power of the sun? Sonic Forces made him beyond cartoonishly evil, and it feels like Frontiers just wants us to forget that happened.
I too, want to forget forces happend
Tbh we might get a dedede-esk redemption for eggman, where eggman becomes more of a rival rather than outright evil
Dont forget even his future is dark. Eggman Nega calling him the black sheep of the familie!
Heya Ace, I would whole heartedly recommend continuing to read the comic series, what is shown in there in regards to what happens to Eggman throughout it really does add to his humanization, it is possible that some events in the comics may have had a hand in what lead to his development in sonic frontiers. Perhaps even a hint of him wanting to be a good person who wants to love and be loved, but is just stuck being as he ever was because he enjoys being that way far too much to ever want to be better even for his own sake.
I’ll definitely be reading more IDW! From what I’ve read so far, it’s too good not too!
I think there's some comedy potential in Sage still loving and following Eggman but also being friends with Sonic & Co., and so she sort of regularly manages truces between them.
7:55 is the reason why some people believe the IDW comics to be effectively canon because we see that he made Belle and when sonic confronts him during the metal virus and he reflects on his time with amnesia as his persona of Mr. Tinker u can see him reflecting on his time with Belle and him blowing off that feeling of longing for love and family but the seeds were sown and later on Sage would be made
I love this father - daughter relationship (I cried in the end) I just hope that he doesn't lose his cool of being the main villaing and being a big menace because of "bad guy, good dad" trope. For example, I like how he was portrayed in the IDW comics (like in Metal virus saga and issue#50)
Nice video! Thank god this video appeared in my Up next section! You seriously have a lot of potential my friend! I wish you great amounts of happiness and success! :)
I don't know, I actually really like the subversion of "the villains/antagonists ALSO have the power of love/friendship on their side!". Because hey- in real life, people have facets, are three-dimensional. They can be terrible overall, but also love kids and animals for example.
Very true! It will just be a big departure for the game version of Eggman! 😁
@@AceCardGaming Sure. If they do it right, it could be really interesting to see! I'm cautiously optimistic, because all the other characters were very well-written in Frontiers, so if they keep up this direction... Then I trust them with Eggman too.
honestly I'd really like to see Eggman get a sort of redemption arc of sorts as long as it's done well.
Like in the IDW Transformers arc that see's Megatron join the Autobots, at some point he ends up on Necroworld which is essentially a planet sized memorial. for every life someone has taken a flower is planted around a statue of them.
and Megatron's has thousands.
Like I don't expect Eggman to ever be fully "Team Sonic" but to see him try to be a better man could be very interesting
Eggman sees Sage as his daughter.
He sees Orbot and Cubot as his annoying servants.
And Metal Sonic as his greatest creation.
What about belle?
@@theepic1944he doenst consider himself and Mr thinker as the same person
i mean i think Eggman is mostly a Monster, but i can see how he changed
he helped Shadow and proves respect for Sonic Tails ecc
His relationship with Sage is pretty understandable
I think in order to reset eggman to the evil status quo for the next game the writers will probaly make eggman reprogram the new version of sage to dislike sonic.
Thing about Eggy is that he's always been a representative of humanity since the very first game.
Of the worst aspects? Sure, very much so. But always human. Egoistical, megalomaniacal, self-absorbed and narcissistic, yet undeniably a human. A person.
Even since the Adventure games, particularly SA2, we've know that he's not entirely devoid or incapable of positive interactions with others, let alone feeling love and/or admiration.
Him finally cracking out of his shell with his most impressive creation yet, one that actually manages to impress him and succeed, is nothing more than an extension of that. His love may come from a twisted perspective of ego-stroking, but its still love and appreciation for Sage.
If anything team eggman feel much better with sage in it than zavok
Oh, for sure!
Yeah, I don't hate Zavok but I doubt he wants anything to do with Eggman, let alone enough to team up with him for a race. Besides, now Team Eggman can have the proper roles filled out: Metal for Speed, Sage for Flight, and Eggman for Power (Dude did punch an ice wall to bits and is classified as a Power type character in the Olympic games).
i legit started crying at the end of the game when eggman looked so defeated. it was heart wrenching. and then too have Dear Father start playing RIGHT AFTERWARDS. my heart can't take it.
Thanks so much for making awesome content!
You are most welcome! Glad you enjoy it. 😁
@@AceCardGaming thanks 😄
If you were reading the comics you'd probably realize who tangle was when she was mentioned but the fact that she was mentioned means that frontiers is probably way after the metal virus and probably imposter syndrome in the comics meaning that we actually have some reason as to why Eggman softened up. Basically he lost his memory for a while and became a loveable little guy named mr.tinkerer and made a daughter named belle so father/daughter complex set up and during metal virus and imposter syndrome 3 new villains are introduced dr.starline aka eggmans assistant for the metal virus and starlines creations surge and kit aka the sonic and tails copycats. If your wondering who tangle is still their just someone sonic met during the metal virus arc. Also mecha's back thanks to the scrapnik island comics.
Humanizing eggman
The same guy who did the metal virus just feel wrong
This was character development for Eggman, We need more of it.
FINALLYYYY!!!! The first time I care about Eggman since SA2 or the Metarex Saga
I see eggman in like colors and lost world doing evil shit but its more comedic, but its oddly tame when you remember in the early tv shows he was robotocizing civilians like thats actually crazy
But Bowser is already the best Dad! Haven't you seen the parental control videos for the Switch?
They’re probably going to use sage as a way to finally pry his guts open.
I'm not a fan of whole Father/Daughter thing with sage and eggman, it doesn't feel natural considering how eggman has been consistently portrayed as a selfish, self-serving evil genius. Like all of a sudden Eggman genuinely cares about a creation he made and we are supposed to accept that despite years of history showing that's just not who he is as a character? It just feels forced and arbitrary for the sake of the plot of the game.
A much better dynamic that's more in line with his character is if Eggman has no genuine emotional attachment to sage but values her capabilities and sees her kinda like his favourite guard dog or reliable servant, someone who he can trust important tasks to kinda like metal sonic in the IDW comics. Like if she were to get destroyed he wouldn't be sad about it but be moreso mad since his favourite toy got broken and he has to fix it again. We can even have this whole thing where Sage genuinely cares about Eggman and wants his approval but he only sees her as a useful tool yet she still sticks with him regardless. Heck in a future story she could have a rivalry with metal sonic over who's eggman's favourite, maybe wanting to get rid of him so she has no competition. It could even be a thing where eggman while normally paying attention to sage whenever he deploys metal sonic his attention shifts to him primarily and it could parallel how eggman's relatives ignored him in favour of someone else when he was young.
Thought: Sonic team could be phasing Eggman into the type of "ex-villain rival" character that HAL labs did for King Dedede, or Alphadream did for Bowser in the Mario & Luigi Series.
Now the only character we need to be more emotional is Sonic himself, like seriously, can't the guy feel somewhat sad?
I think we seen some of this for him with Knuckles and Tails? He seemed genuinely sad and concerned about Knuckles at times, and he was a big brother and reassuring figure for Tails. (I’m Frontiers I mean) Sure it wasn’t the biggest deal, but it was a step in the right direction at the very least.
He looked sad when seeing those visions of the Ancients in the past and how they got wiped out by the End.
i really do love what they have done for eggman giving him the one thing that he always wanted what he never got from his actual family
Eggman stole the show for me 😭 If Mike Pollock no longer voices Eggman, I am going to have a birth of cactuses out of my a$$hole.
Vivid! And same!