Prophetic Manipulation: The Victims Step Forward - Detangling IHOPKC - Jed Hartley - ep 243 Podcast
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ม.ค. 2025
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John and Jed delve into the allegations of abuse within IHOPKC. John and Jed describe the methods of spiritual grooming, manipulation, and abuse, illustrating patterns connecting these allegations to broader issues in religious leadership. The story of Jane Doe, who drew parallels to her experiences from testimonies about another public figure, is central to their narrative. They emphasize the role of advocacy and the bravery of survivors in exposing a troubling series of events, setting the stage for further discussions on patterns of abuse and institutional responses.
The discussion shifts to focus on testimonies, including Jane Doe’s and John’s mother, referred to as TH. They explore the emotional and societal challenges victims face in coming forward. Jed highlights a pattern of abuse that spans decades and underscores systemic issues, likening it to other religious movements. They detail the courageous efforts of those advocating for justice, emphasizing how these voices prompted independent investigations. John praises the bravery of his mother and others in exposing abuse despite personal costs. The conversation concludes with reflections on systemic grooming and the spiritual hierarchies that enable abuse, signaling future explorations into related movements and dynamics.
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When I left Christianity, I felt I had escaped a cult. I was a NAR girl. 15 years later I'm back as a basci Christian 101. Not trying to be a super-christian, just a decent one
The gospel is simple
You are heading in the right direction now and that is noble and commendable. Blessings!!! One
more for Truth!!
I fell away from God for many years after church abuse. Back now just trying to my best like you. Baby steps.
Let God's word be your guide not man's interpretation. The only way to accomplish that is by receiving the Holy Ghost, Christ in you leading and guiding you to all truth.
Has Diane spoken at all? Im curious why she and church were ok with Mike going to Paris with young women? It truly baffles me. It just lacks any wisdom, where is the accountability? I am so thankful Jane Doe came forward. Im so grateful for the leaders who believed her and have pursued justice.
I agree!!
Yes, I would never tolerate my husband acting in such a sketchy manner!!
She knew a lot more than she pretended to. She's not a victim she's an accomplice who fleeced Christians for decades. She has "blood" on her hands in all of this absolutely.
I'm so thankful for Jed exposing his wicked father Bob Hartley. It's a hard thing to do I'm sure but it was the right thing to do. The question is now, who knew of Bob's "prophetic" scams and said nothing or even worse participated? They all must be exposed.
I appreciate the courage and plainness with this broadcast. Thank you.
This series is getting better! Love the way the scope of the conversation was focussed on ‘23 and the patterns. Cannot wait for more!
Thank you for bringing a thoughtful well researched and considerate presentation of facts.
Judgement must begin in the house.
This is a time for repentance and thorough self examination.
Thank you Terry H for your courage and your strength. Your testimony was the last nail in the coffin for me. I know you and know your integrity. I’m sure you are one proud Mom right now❤
I am so glad you two are exposing not only the horrendous crimes against individuals, but also exposing the complete cult dynamic set up and propitiated by all of its leadership and administration.
Thank you for having the honest hearts and bold courage to speak truth over the whole cult.
So true!!
Great interview. Really like Jed's insight & clear relation of the chronology.
A respected community leader SAd a friend of mine. He chose wisely. Predators pick out the vulnerable girl that no one will believe.
"You won't believe what Jane said about John!"
"Yes. It happened. She's telling the truth."
Not always girls, either.
@@christianwoudenberg3393 Good Point
That's so sad!!
Very true. Predators pick their victims very selectively. It's all so disturbing.
thanks jed for sharing something truly vulnerable to you and your family. im thankful for both of you to try and bring reason and logic to this and to try and make sense of the clergy type abuse weve encounters. i pray God would heal all our wounds and i know he uses people like you guys to do that in my life personally.
I love episodes with Jed! Excited to watch this
Just finished! I've been tracking the IHOPKC scandal since last fall. Thank you Jed for summarizing all the events so well. Also, I appreciate your mom's transparency and honesty. I can't image how hard this has been for people who've known Mike or been involved with IHOPKC.
I do too!!
Thank you for your ministry!
Your mom is so brave!!
Thanks so much, John and Jed!!
I so admire the victims who have spoken out!!
So, his father/ her husband defended the person who hurt her?!? That's HORRIBLE!
I love this series and think every episode has been fantastic. One thing (no pun intended): I think the phrase “prophetic manipulation” should be replaced by the phrase “religious abuse”. Mike’s “prophecies” weren’t prophecies, they were lies formulated in a specific religious environment that is susceptible to these lies and the purpose of the lies was abuse. Also, “religious abuse” is a more common term. Whenever I hear “prophetic manipulation” I keep thinking we’re talking about true prophecies that have been manipulated somehow. Just my two cents.
That's a really good point!
While it is Religious Abuse, there is also value in specifically highlighting how "prophecy" is used in some circles to shield abusers and make victims more susceptible. This is less likely to work in a context that does not teach the restoration of the 5-fold ministry.
@@garycook3943That is a good point too. Once you set someone up as a prophet, a mouthpiece of God, their words, no matter how wrong, have so much power!!
Galatians 1; 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. This is at the root of the whole problem. Mike Bickle was giving prophecies which never came to pass or were wrong, but the elders of the organization just went along with it and said nothing. Bickle was teaching a big big numerical revival when the Bible only talks about a falling away at the end of the church age and again the elders around him said nothing. Another big problem which has been swept under the rug is; where has all the money collected gone?
Surely that is under investigation. Surely.
Maybe one day we’ll see the whole mess on American Greed.
Every single student and/or parent that paid tuition to the uncertified university, for a degree that is basically useless, should be reimbursed by the money that has been buried in some way.
@@4paullou6wouldn’t surprise me if we eventually find out Sam Storms knew more than his appalled indignation has let on.
this is great!
The man's name is Michael Sullivant. It sounds like Jeddiah pronounces his name without the "t" at the end of his name.
What ever happened to Stuart Grieves? Don’t underestimate these passive yes men like he appeared to be who cover up and defend these cult leaders like Bickle. About a month after the scandal broke he left and has never been heard from again …
The apostle Paul warned us of those that say they operate on the same level as the original apostles. This closes the matter forever.
.
I will keep on doing what I am doing, in order to undercut those who want an opportunity to be regarded as our equals in the things of which they boast.
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
2 Corinthians 11.13
.
All that claim these titles and power are false.
Bickle splurged and hired individual hotel rooms for everyone on a trip to Paris? Isn't this around the same time Bickle had the employees of IHOP lined up outside his office to recieve handouts because they weren't being paid enough to survive on their own? Was this at the same time, or am I misremebering the timing of events?
I'm so sorry your mom was victimized by Bickle!!
Where is Daniel Lim?
❤
It wasn't amazing that Mertin Luther could protest the catholic church, but that he could keep himself away from the fanatasizum that followed his message. Just listen to the preaching, and make your decision. Stop listening to the fanatics in this message. Br Branham preached Christ just like St Paul. Remember it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ not a religion.
William Branham was a bigtime cultist and false teacher, so why are you peoole commenting on this subject?
This episode got dragged out way too long. It felt like material was being repeated just to fill in time. I had to tap out at 38 minutes or so. Just to clarify, it was the guest who rambled (IMO), not the host.
I'm still waiting....
Interesting that you find Jed to be rambling. This young man is simply speaking with caution. He has lived through trauma like you likely have never known. Your criticism seems more like a defender of Jed’s dad and MB and all of the admin that knew, but waited until the heat got close to home.
Maybe, you aren’t but do realize your lack of patients actually sounds more like a cold, “I don’t want to face the truth, so I’ll gaslight Jed.”
@ your comment is judgmental and unfair. I said nothing about Jed’s content, only that he rambled. I realize he needs to process his trauma, but that’s not what the episode title led me to expect. And you accuse me of being cold, but you speak of Jed having trauma that I “likely have never known.” You don’t know what trauma I have suffered, so that was a low blow. But you’re right about one thing: I do have a “lack of patients.” Not being a doctor, I have zero patients. 😂
Spell check. patience.
Michael brown and Sam storms are awfully quiet about this and wound excuse themselves for being too busy , not their area of expertise and let God be the judge, and keep your opinions to yourselves.
This all came out in 2023. Sam Storms has fully denounced Mike Bickle and his actions through statements, podcasts and sermons.
@carrieokie62 yes we heard that but in light of the most recent information....
Thank you ❤