It's like Erwin said in No Regrets. Once you leave the decision up to someone else, that's the day you die/lose. Zeke did that and lost (in 4x14, leaving it up to Levi wether to kill his comrades or not). Levi did that and lost (in 4x15, leaving it up to Zeke to pull the trigger on the spear).
I think Grisha's biggest mistake is his failure at being a parent. Yes, the situation was dire. But he treated Zeke as more of a means to an end rather than an actual child. When he was born, he didn't say, "Thank Ymir for blessing me with this son", all he could think about was how his royal blood would help him fulfill his goal. Zeke didn't even seem to want to be a Titan. But he wanted his father to actually love him and spend time with him so much that he was willing to throw his life away. And even after he was trying his best, all he received was Grisha yelling and being disappointed at him. So when Tom actually seemed to care for him, it's no wonder that he bonded more with him than his parents. Udo's comment about Eldians being treated worse around the world also showcases why Zeke develops his mindset. Zeke is a hurting man who's tired of it all. A brilliant Monke.
Grisha's biggest mistake is Joining the rebels interpreting the history book without actually being able to read the words. He made up history. He lied. Marley isn't the only nation that lived through Eldia's reign of terror. The rest of the world did too. Grisha should have sought the truth not spread ignorance. Had he not joined the Rebels he would not have met Dina, had eren and zeke. However Grisha's Failure was the world's biggest win so I can't be mad at the guy.
Wow, that's a really good point. I completely forgot he basically told Zeke go "die in 13 years". I was so caught up in how badly Grisha handled Zeke failing to get a titan I forgot how much of an ask it was if Zeke succeeded.
I think people don't understand Levi's position when he captured Zeke, so I'm gonna put for you his reasoning at that moment: A- He can't kill Zeke because Marley and the world have united and coming to destroy Paradise and kill every last Eldian in it, So they need to use the Rumbling to Push them back, and guess who is the only available People with Royal Blood?Zeke and the current Eldian Queen Historia (who is also pregnant as well). Also, he can't just feed Zeke to a random Eldian because of two reasons; 1- Zeke has alot of devoted followers that consider him borderline God, so by killing him they would create enemies in their midst which they can't have when there's a battle against the Entire World very soon. 2- Because of Erens mission in Libirio, Marley, The World is coming for Paraduse very soon, therefore they need someone who can turn into a Titan WITH Royal Blood ready at hand to activate the Rumbling. B- Zeke DEVOTED his entire life to achieve his mission (which Levi and Hanje thinks is the use of the Rumbling to force the world into submission) so by blowing himself up, Zeke did the most illogical and out of character thing ever, which Levi, understandably so, never expected. 3- If Levi haven't put the thunder spear in Zekes Stomach, Zeke could have either turned into the Beast Titan anytime, OR he could have screamed and turned other nearby innocent Eldians into titans and tried to kill Levi. The Thunder Spear was wraped around his neck to stop him from screaming AND it was also in his stomach to stop him form regenerating. So unlike alot of peoples opinion regarding Levi supposedly "underestimation" of Zeke, his plan was actually borderline Paranoia.
all good points. but where i felt his planning was sloppy was the part where he kept cutting his legs so he wont regenerate so tbh he didnt need to put the bomb in his stomach to keep him from regening but anyway ignoring that i mean you are cutting someone's legs anyone would jerk their whole body if you do that i am impressed zeke didnt do that but if zeke did give a normal reaction like anyone else would have then levi and him both should have gotten blasted the moment he cut his legs (also pretty sure titan powers don't heighten your pain threshold)
Yeah, plus Zeke doesn't know that, after coming to Paradis, his dad realized his actions towards Zeke were wrong, as we get from the remorseful wording in his diary admitting he repeated his own father's mistake
I think it’s natural to feel sorry for Zeke as he was just a child when this was all thrust upon him. In fact, I think the fact that children carry the brunt of these wars is one of the series’ central themes and is so well-explained in Sasha’s father’s speech a few episodes ago. I thought I heard someone (Sam maybe?) say that Zeke and Eren didn’t touch because of sharing memories. I don’t think it was that. They were playing it safe in not having the Founding Titan connect with someone of royal blood before they’re ready to enact their plan.
I don't get why though. Eren already had touched someone with royal blood and only managed to control surrounding Titans. What would they have to worry, right in the middle of Marley? There were no Titans around. Could he even start the Rumbling from way over there? No manga spoilers please.
@@Triattt Manga reader hear, I don’t recall them explaining if it was even possible before the only time that eren controlled the titans is what you said from the end of season 2, but I think there’s a possibility that the founding titan can control all the eldians/titans in the world because of what was said in this episode about the epidemic and the founding titan altering the anatomy of ALL eldians (therefore all around the world).
@@manuelamaya6464 But that's another thing I don't get. If they're afraid that they'd instantly control all eldians, why not just make them all infertile right away? That way if anything happens to either of them, the plan still remains in motion.
At first glance Zeke's plan sounds nuts, but remember at this point in the story it's impossible to resolve the issue without people dying, so the best solution is the one that produces less casualty
So I assume you’re black by your profile picture? Would the black slaves in America rather have not existed? Should Martin Luther king have told black people to stop reproducing because of the inequalities they faced? Or would you agree that people should fight for their freedoms and equality?
17:00 - I honestly don't think Zeke really hated his parents. Of course he had some resentment for them but he was still saddened that he had to turn them in. I guess he realized they were going to be sent to Paradis either way, so he might as well jump the gun and save himself and advance his own plan while doing so.
Yeah, Zeke saved not only himself, but his grandparents too. Grisha was sloppy, and on the verge of getting caught, and he was also full-on militant. Even if Zeke had gotten the Beast Titan normally, with Grisha running things, there would have been no way forward without unprecedented carnage on both sides.
Ksaver was seen briefly twice last season, he was a young man when Grisha and Faye run past him in Liberio to see the airship, and he’s shown hugging Zeke as he points out Grisha and Dina
ya exactly. Grisha's plan is to restore the Eldian Empire because he thought it was good for the world. Zeke's plan is to remove all Eldians from the world in the LEAST terrible way possible. Aside from his plan, the alternative is the world comes and kills every single Eldian. Zeke's plan is by far the most peaceful to solve the problem.
The extinction of an entire race won’t bring peace to the world. Sure the titans titans will be gone, but the cycle of hate will not stop. If anything once Marley loses their powers, they’ll lose their entire nation to other nations they’ve took over. Millions upon millions will be gone. There you go a new cycle of hate will be birth. I don’t hate, nor do I agree with his plan and spoiler alert Erens plan, but I do see were they’re both coming from. I see their reasons behind their ideologies. They both have their own ways of doing things whether it may be good or bad. You don’t have to like them, but at least understand were they’re both coming from. Their plans have flaws no matter how “heroic” they may sound to some viewers. That’s what makes this story complex and amazing despite the flaws it may have and the hate it gets.
From my point of view, I think eren himself has a different plan, because the core fundamental of his character is the idea of Freedom. That;s been the only thing that was consistent with Eren since S1E1. So to just go ahead and take the freedom to bear kids from all Endians, nah something doesn't add up. Not to mention the line from Carla in S3 where she says Eren is already special cause he was born into this world, yeah definitely not something Eren would be down for. I smell something else cooking in the background. And in the entire s4 so far, we haven't gotten Eren's POV yet, its been from Reiners pov of talking with eren, Armins pov of talking with eren, Hange talking with Eren. There has to be a reason.
I agree. The POV change was telling. Also, his wording is very specific. He wants to rid the world of Titan rule (both in the hands of Marley and Eldians) and said nothing about eliminating all Eldians. My hope is that he’s using this upcoming connection to speak with Ymir and break the curse. I think what Ksaver said about changing their biology is key, just not in the way Zeke wants to.
Zeke and Grisha's ideas of peace are vastly different. Grisha's involved a lot of fighting and bloodshed to go back to the island, "re-take" the founder (kill the original host and kill those who abetted their actions), and then "free" the Eldians being kept in the internment zones (by fighting and killing Marleyans), and then eventually taking over Marley to make it Eldian-ran again. That's a whole war where thousands upon thousands would die. Meanwhile, as much as we hate Zeke, he's only directly killed like a hundred people and his plan is to give Eldians permanent birth control so that their species peacefully dies out in a hundred years or so. That would bring all conflicts to an end over time. EDIT: I am simply presenting this argument from Zeke's viewpoint. *NO* I don't think genocide is "peaceful", but Zeke and Ksaver do.
Over time I would hope it would bring it to the end. I just hope that Marleyans wouldn't still hold contempt against Eldians even when they can't reproduce. -Morgan
@@TheReactPack That's a good point, who's to say that the world wouldn't want to still wipe out Eldians even if they are unable to bear children, they would still be able to turn into titans right? Zeke seems to be lost and I hope Eren has realized that Zeke's plan is very flawed and has one of his own, it is his decision after all.
The euthanization doesn't account a lot of problems and definitely doesn't account for how the entire world is still stuck in a cycle of war that doesn't necessarily have to do with Eldians. Hence the point about weapons development and technology surpassing titans.
@@SupposeIRose yeah but Marley would no longer have their titan weapons. Just because war still continues doesn't mean that it's not a good choice to get rid of what is essentially their nukes
@@solesofwind9543 this is literally addressed in the very next episode. They would use the threat of the Rumbling to keep other nations at bay while they live in peace
Honestly, Zeke’s plan is kinda the most logical and less brutal. So long as Titans exist, someone’s gonna use them to dominate the world (whether by Eldia or Marley). Titans will exist so long as Eldians exist, and you don't have to live w the fact that million of inocent people had to die just so u can live.
@@Coolasthebreez3 The power would transfer to a new born Eldian but with Zeke’s plan no more Eldians would be born so no one would inherit the Titan shifter’s power.
@@Coolasthebreez3 Whoever controls the founding titan can affect the Eldian’s bodies and memories whether they accept it or not. If Eren followed Zeke’s plan they could euthanize the Eldians and erase their memories just like Karl Fritz did to his people when he moved them to Paradise Island.
@@Coolasthebreez3 The Ackermans and the Asian clan were immune to the King’s Fritz’s ideology but they’ve been reduced to a handful and they can’t use the Titans power themselves .The Asian clan are neither Eldians nor Subjects of Ymir and Kenny’s grandfather speculated that Ackermans are also not Subjects of Ymir which would explain why there’s never been an Ackerman titan shifter. Even if they didn’t accept Zeke’s plan they wouldn’t be able to use the founding titan to reverse it.
@@Coolasthebreez3 I’m not saying Zeke’s plan is right or wrong either but there’s a counter to every point you’ve made about how it could reversed. Sure, they could just tell everyone but that’s assuming they’ll listen and cooperate. We’re dealing with the memory and body altering of an entire race of people here. How long would it take to rally them into action?
Unlike Eren or Grisha, Zeke never wanted to change things directly by confronting the world and going into war. Hence why he went so different than what his father would've wanted him to. Zeke doesn't want to fight until the end, he just want things to stop and to him, the only way to get that is to suppress the origin of the conflict, which he considers being the eldians. I think that, just as Ksaver, he wished he was never born into this world as well, which emphasize the fact that he called him father. He kinda inherited his feelings and his way of seeing life. And that also explains why his solution to the problem is this euthanization plan and not to stand his ground against the world and fight it off
The military reluctantly agreed to what they believe to be Zeke's plan: A test of the rumbling as a warning to the rest of the world. Then continually passing down the beast titan to someone of royal blood and the founding titan to someone else to keep the threat of the rumbling alive to ward off attackers. The Jeagerists however want Eren to actually use the rumbling (march of countless colossal titans) to stomp the rest of the world. They want to establish Eren as the leader that will bring Eldia back to glory. Only Zeke and Eren are aware of Zeke's true intentions: the "euthanasia" plan.
Levi wasn't going to kill Zeke and risk the beast titan's power going to some Eldian baby in Marley, so he was taking it to someone being turned into an irrational titan and eating him...(he just tortured him) xD
Remeber at the end of season 3 when you learned aboout grisha's past from his point of view? He seemed to be a good dad who didn't understand why his son betrayed him.
he never stated that he treated his son well, quite the opposite, but he didnt made it like a strong point, he just put the phrase, - what a terrible sin is to impose your believes on your child - making a point on how he did the same bad stuff his own father did to him
I 100% think Eren is playing Zeke. Zeke has been wanting someone to trust for this mission and Eren can probably sense it. Plus Eren has always said "Because I was born into this world" whereas Ksaver and Zeke say "If only I wasn't born" 🤔🤔
Yeah I'm surprised a number of people believe Eren in that last scene with Zeke. The phrase "there is no greater salvation than never being born into this world" is in stark contrast to the phrase that his mom inspired him with, "you're special because you were born into this world".
its perfectly fine to feel bad for Zeke when he was growing up because of everything we saw. but dont forget, he was still enjoying himself when he was wiping out the scouts. theres no excuse for that, even with a bad childhood
@@MurciPrime society molds a person into what they are now. horrible experiences zeke experienced like the pressure he had from his father and bad treatment greatly influenced zekes behavior. believe me, I don’t agree with what zeke did with erwin and his soldiers but I think he has a good excuse for his behavior. but I see where you’re coming from
its not excuse its a coping mechanism , rather block your feelings and try to enjoy it somehow to not deal with the trauma. He cant give anything away , so hes gotta do what he gotta do . i dont think he had a choice or any other way
That was very clearly just a coping mechanism. He wasn't actually having fun. We literally see how pissed off and sad he gets when they all throw their lives away on a suicide charge
Zekes parents just treated him terribly. Pair that with Ksaver actually treating him well and telling zeke this could spare your grandparents who zeke actually loved as well, he had no issue turning his parents in. Zeke wouldve had the people he loved and would've lost nothing in his mind. He didn't plan on being the beast titan until Ksaver broke down in front of him and that's when zeke opened his eyes and mind to the tragedy befalling his people and decided to use his powers to further his plan to save his people
remember that the owl told grisha to go to the island and start a family ultimately and only to give his son the attack titan and carry on with the plan, but grisha didn’t put any pressure on eren and didn’t even tell him about eldia although he was planning to
I just cannot see Eren allowing this to happen. Letting his friends and Mikasa die just bc of their race? It's just not Eren's character. We're underestimating him.
Well spoilers eren will not let a lot of people die especially Mikasa and Armin . Because his end goal was to piss off Mikasa so she isn't serving him anymore . And when push comes to shove . Meaning when eren turns in the rumble .Mikasa will be the only one powerful enough to kill him .
00:00 TIME FOR KSAVER 👌🏾 AND GRISHA'S DISTRESSING BEHAVIOR 15:22 tho it's more like a sterilization plan, ig they picked a word more from the point that this is an extended euthenization He just wanted to be a normal kid 😢 if he included the normal child treatment, this might've went well This comment keeps popping up, but: Eren was the son Grisha wanted in Marley, and Zeke was the son he wanted on Paradis When I think about that it just _hurts_
I don't think it was sloppy of Levi, zeke is a royal titan im sure zeke doing a suicide self bombing wasn't an option in Levis brain 🤷🏻♂️ good vid tho guys
I think it's important to understand the show's references to Nazi Germany and its treatment of the Jews. Everything from the arm bands to the Internment Zone are meant to be references. The troubling thing about Zeke's and Eren's plan is that it is literally genocide via eugenics which was also a part of the Nazi's ideology. The term "euthanasia plan" is a bit of a misnomer. I think Zeke and Eren genuinely think it is the lesser evil, but it is definitely evil.
To be more clear. I hold out hope that Eren has some secret second plan that won't result in him committing genocide, but we'll all have to wait for the second half of the season to see if that's true!
I don't know if it's a plot hol, but I don't understand what the Jaguerists' purpose is, Yelena clearly knows Zeke's plan and told Eren's friends about the plan to make the Eldians infertile. It is clear that Floch would not agree with this plan as he wants to create a new empire for the Eldians and both Floch and Yelena are close. So is there any explanation for this or is it a plot hole? As for Eren, I'm pretty sure he's using Zeke (this is not a spoiler it's just my opinion). Sorry for my English, I'm learning.
I don't understand it either and to me it seems like a plot hole, Yelena has different goals than Floch but somehow I don't understand they work together. And for me it's too forced Floch to accept Zeke as an "ally" after everything he witnessed.
I don't know if it makes me look crazy but I like their (Zeke and Eren) plan, eldians in marley are suffering, eldians in paradise are too as in they could and would/will get invaded forever, to kill them because they are eldians or for ressources (or other reasons). I like the plan because, unlike our real world, they can turn into titans.. with them alive even if you kill all Power Titans they'll just be reborn in an eldian baby. If there's no eldians that would make everything 'fine' (if they are not fighting eldians they'll just find another race/country/or whatever to make war, there's no solution for that but for all those, they cant become 'weapons'), still it is a hard decision. *not a manga reader*
Grisha wanted to save Eldians from the rest of the world, Zeke wanted to save the world from the fear of the Titans, hence eldians. Now you should discuss about the morality of their wishes.
Also, eren wasn't a victim of grisha. Eren wanted to get out of the walls himself. Only after that did grisha tell him about the key. In the first episode of season 1.
Ackermann cannot become titans.. they were designed to protect the King and they are the result of generic experiments by royal family 2000 years ago.. it was explained by Zeke in Manga.. sad that was not covered in the Anime..
Whats kinda funny is wen we first find out about the outside world. In Grisha's story he makes it seem lik zeke betrayed them but in all react he treated his son terribly. This anime/manga really shows how a story from 2 different pov's may be very different lol
OMG , usually I don't comment , but I just realized something crazy. The scene where Zeke is throwing the baseball ball to Eren is the same as Ymir and the devil, I saw the same picture in my mind but with Ymir and the devil holding the apple instead of the ball (I'm talking about that deal they talked about in S3). For some reason I didn't see that when I was watching the anime.
Yeah the plan prevent Marleyans to come accross the island by using a mini rumbling. it would make the population of Paradis leaves for atleast 100 years, with no ability to have kids.
Ackerman’s Can’t turn into Titans because they Are already Warriors Created with The blood of titans …. However They Are Subject of Yamir but cannot Transform…
i think eren need zeeks to do the rumbling , cause he dont want to use historia , but eren dont agree at all whit zeeke , thats my point , we will see in the end .. but i dont know ,, the coordinae can see memories ahead , like kruger did , so eren know more than anyone there ... only him know the future xd
why the world fear eldians that much and ksvar's wife was willing to kill her own son? just remember what happened last episode, when levi's team drink something wrong, regardless their own intention, they could turn to titans and attack others without any hesitation. and the difference between zeke and grisha is that zeke understands why other races fear eldian, while grisha was all about the rage of the treatment suffered by eldians.
That dude doesn't understand that Ackermans cannot turn into titans and they the byproducts of titan science and have titan strength in human form. The Ackerman was just a laboratory experiment and the power passes through Ackerman blood.
You dont understand that, that's only covered in the manga. That part was taken out of the anime. Idk why you would put that here and spoil that for them. Being byproducts of science experimentation and not turning into titans hasnt been discussed in the anime at all. They were very clear on this.
Sadly people who havent read the manga probably will never know that because all the dialogue about the Ackermans being a byproduct of titan experiments has been cut from the anime, which is baffling considering that it is very important for something that happens in the later parts but oh well
Zeke and Eren have same Goal , they want to save everyone from The Titan Domination and put end of The Era Of The Titans and Eren is only fighting for freedom is to protect his friends from dieing ! 👏🏻🔥
@@solesofwind9543 "A race of people that can turn into titans", that's not the same as the Jews back then, it's not the same at all. People had the right to fear the Paradis people, let's remember that the war just ended 100 years ago from where we are today, and the only thing that people outside the walls knew (before Willy's speech) was that Tybur's familly and Marley defeated the king Fritz and that he ran away and hid in the walls. People is right to fear the Paradis people, to them, they are the same "monsters" who had dominated the world with titans for 2000 years and that they might do it again.
@@solesofwind9543 There's is no good side and bad side in this story my man, except if someone is trying to end the world, that guy would be the only villian on the story
@@solesofwind9543 Yea i get you, but for me is that it's very difficult to choose Eren's side just because we fell in love with the characters, it just too lame to me. Not understanding the other side of the world wich are millions of innocent lives that he is killing, people just like him and his friends. For me, that is leaving behind common sense and being bias
I wonder if there is more connection between older and new inherits we possible didnt realise, cuz we didnt know... would be weird if Berthold and Armin didnt have any 'moments' in the past they couldnt explain
I find it weird not even Alex brought up the fact that Eren might only be pretending to go along with Zeke's plan and that he might have his own plan once they "make contact." I haven't read the manga so I have no idea, just some more food for thought.
The anime made the scene where Zeke and Grisha are arguing at the dinner table make Grisha look like a horrible father but in the manga there was more context. After Grisha finishes that last sentence Zeke says "But grandpa said that if you hadn't gone outside the walls" then there's a long pause and Grisha replies back "What did I do wrong? I just wanted to see the airship." Yes, its sad that Grisha made Zeke do all of this but you really feel bad for him and understand why he made that goal for this son.
He is a horrible father even Grisha acknowledge that if you remember what he said to Kruger that he was a terrible father to Zeke, but he didn't make the same mistake with Eren because he raised him differently
This is a great episode and I love that we get insight into Zeke. His plan is just awful though. His solution to genocide...is genocide. I feel like Zeke's been beat down so much by life and his existance as an Eldian that he just doesn't see hope for his people. In his eyes, his plan is correct because having no suffering by not existing is better than suffering your entire life. I don't agree with it (Eldians can still be treated like crap and taking away an entire people's ability to reproduce without consent is a whole other bag of problems) but I definitely understand how he came to this conclusion.
Zekes plan is per definition not genocide, as that involves actual mass killings to take place. And out of all the plans shown so far that would resolve the eldian conflict Zekes is the one with the least amount of bloodshed by far.
@@dirkdanger9688 Hello, so under many definitions of genocide, as far as international law,, treaties, groups, etc certain types of eugenics fulfil the criteria. As in "Imposing measures intended to prevent births within [a national, ethnical, racial or religious] group". Of course, thats not the sole criteria, as of course, many people tend to think just of the more active act of killing and slaughtering... but the comment you are replying to, is accurate in context.
It's hard to root for Hange and the gang because they have no plan, like they don't know what to do with this whole situation meanwhile Eren and Zeke actually have a plan
Here is the problem. Eren is part if the reason why they have no plan. The first part of Zeke plan was to use the rumbling to keep Marleyans away from paradis and then give his beast titan to an Eldian of Royal blood. Eren opposed to that in front of Hange and suggested to not use the rumbling yet. Then did something crazy behind everyone's back. He made them lost time and then lost their trust to the OG plan and Zeke.
@@randeroni *Not 4 years, 2 years* , Yelena arrived to paradis after the death of all titans from the island, which happened a 1 year after Reiner left. She came her months after the last scene of season 3. When she was there she gave the possibility to use the rumbling for Eldia through Zeke but the full plan was only revealed when she brought the Azumabito *a year after later* ". *As for how Eren is a problem here* , because the plan involved Historia having the beast titan, Eren opposed to that plan in front of everyone insisting to let the rumbling aside. It's pushed Hange to have some plan (SPOILER) that took sometime to be ready ( *almost a year too* ) that plan failed, Eren diseapered to do things behind their back, they spent the rest of the time looking for Eren, until he makes contact force them to take part in the fight, cause the death of lot of soldier including Sasha didn't say anything about his deal with Yelena meaning that the only plan they had, and their best weapon couldn't be trusted anymore. *Eren made the higher ups put the OG plan aside for like a year and then did things behind their back, and hid things from them, which caused to lose their trust in him.*
@@sgcastle8389 4 years, 2 years, whatever the point still stands. I still don't get how it's Eren's fault they had no plan. Sure, he convinced everyone to not go through with Zeke's plan at first and look for other options. But that just delayed the plan they already had, it didn't prevent them from coming up with other plans. They simply didn't have many options, it doesn't matter if they had 2 years to think about it or 10 years. It's an impossible situation. Regardless, lets say they did go through with Zeke's plan right away. They would still need to take a year of preparation to plan for the attack. And after they get Zeke, sure they would still trust Eren, but there's no way in hell they would trust Zeke. It would ultimately end up the same way, with them keeping Zeke hidden away for months while waiting for the bureaucrats to take their thumbs out of their asses and actually do something
@@randeroni "But that just delayed the plan they already had, it didn't prevent them from coming up with other plans. They simply didn't have many options, it doesn't matter if they had 2 years to think about it or 10 years. It's an impossible situation." That delayed the plan for 2 years, they had tp make another which is a spoiler if you did not read the manga but it failed, the delaying cost alot and that include Zeke's remaining time on earth. it'll be more clear when i anwser the second part of your question. *Explaining the second part of your reply will answer why it's also Eren's fault if they didn't have option.* You said even if they followed the plan right away it would end up in the same way. that's wrong, it would've been different for one specific reason: *Historia* See , since they don't trust Zeke, *he would've been fed to Historia right away* , she would've became the beast, and with Eren they would've done the mini rumbling just as planned, and all of that would've happened sooner. *But Because Eren opposed Historia being a titan he conspired with Zeke and Yelena instead of his own crew, that lead to historia being pregnant which made her impossible to become a titan, to Zeke being alive longer hidden away for months; while the bureaucrats were waiting for Historia to have her child, to try again, and trying to find the snakes in their garden, thanks to Eren not being trusted anymore with the founding because he , the Death of Zachary and more.* To put it simply it's also Eren's in fault if they didn't have option, *because he took away their last option for Historia.*
16:36 So, essentially you are right that Grisha and Zeke's goals aren't particularly different from one another. Zeke believes, that there is no world where Eldians can coexist with the rest of humanity, and so this plan that he has come up with appears to be the most peaceful possible solution to the issue. Of course Grisha and Zeke would both like to see Eldians not subjugated and destroyed, but alas the world of Attack on Titan is more robust than such naive idealism.
At this point in the story, there 3 plans to go with: (1) Zeke's proposed plan to pass down a royal Beast Titan to always have the option of the Rumbling to discourage the rest of the world from attacking Eldia by breeding royal blood for the sole purpose of it. (2) Zeke's actual plan, euthanization by not allowing Eldians to bear children, which would work only if a royal Beast Titan and a Founding Titan were to be the last of the Eldian populace so the depleting race could still live in peace due to the threat of the Rumbling keeping the rest of the world at bay. (3) Use the Rumbling to kill all humanity on Earth except for Eldia.
@@TequilaToothpick saying it's genocide is extreme IMO, as it doesn't fit the definition at all. I only chose option 2 because it's the only plan that doesn't require sacrificing anybody's life. Although, it still requires the passing down of some titan powers, but not indefinitely like in option 1. I guess it all depends on how much you value the ability to reproduce, though. If option 2 is akin to genocide to you, then I can see why you wouldn't want to choose it. Isayama really did do a great job of creating a hopeless setting; the themes mirror irl very well, but the fantasy aspect of it (man-eating monsters with human personas and characteristics) makes it so there is no right or wrong solution. Like, if AOT was a regular horror/thriller, post-apocalyptic show, the protagonists would just be regular humans like us while the antagonists would just be the Titans with some cliche sci-fi explanation for their existence (like how zombies are usually caused by scientific experimentation) and a plot that just progresses with physical conflict only.
You're getting close to the end of this season :O idk if you take on recommendations from comments but I'd love to see you react to Arcane, it's not an anime but it is an animated show and it's extremely good!!
I'm also very conflicted of what should be the right plan to take to save everyone, considering peace seems like not an option anymore. What really is the best plan for this situation? I've been really coming up with plans myself. And I realized Eren must be also doing the same thing for the past 4 years, constantly seeking for a plan. I think what prompted Eren to take action outside the scouts plans is because they are running out of time. No matter what, Hange, Armin and the others in the Military have not really devised a concrete plan all these years. Knowing the the world will eventually attack Paradis, Eren had no choice but to take actions himself.
To all subject of Ymir. *My name is Eren Jaeger.* I'm using the power of the Founding Titan to address all of Ymir's subjects the hardening of all walls present on Paradis has come undone and all titans entrapped within them have begun to walk. My Goal... is to protect the people of Paradis, the place where i was born and raised, but the world desires the exitiction of the people of Paradise Over countless years, their hatred has grown beyond this island. They surely will not stop until they have killed every one of the subjects of Ymir. *I reject their desire* The titans of the walls will trample and rumble all the lands beyond this island, until the lives there... are eliminated from this world
The point is that we all want freedom, both in AOT and in real life, Zeke's plan seems peaceful and good but in reality it is an atrocity, a long-term genocide done by a person with power who decides that an entire community or ethnicity is not going to reproduce with the intention of ending them. In addition to that he takes away the power to decide from everyone, if they will have children or not
![The Wall Song ร้องข้ามกำแพง | EP.213 | กรีน อัษฎาพร | 3 ต.ค. 67 [1/5]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3KrlLbCsadI/mqdefault.jpg)
Zeke underestimated Levi’s will to kill his comrades and Levi underestimated Zeke’s will to complete his mission. Truly art
It's like Erwin said in No Regrets. Once you leave the decision up to someone else, that's the day you die/lose.
Zeke did that and lost (in 4x14, leaving it up to Levi wether to kill his comrades or not). Levi did that and lost (in 4x15, leaving it up to Zeke to pull the trigger on the spear).
Miscalculations ..
@@Vin-y_Go Nice
The complexity of this series is amazing
@@Vin-y_Go truuue it was all miscalculations😂
I think Grisha's biggest mistake is his failure at being a parent. Yes, the situation was dire. But he treated Zeke as more of a means to an end rather than an actual child. When he was born, he didn't say, "Thank Ymir for blessing me with this son", all he could think about was how his royal blood would help him fulfill his goal. Zeke didn't even seem to want to be a Titan. But he wanted his father to actually love him and spend time with him so much that he was willing to throw his life away. And even after he was trying his best, all he received was Grisha yelling and being disappointed at him.
So when Tom actually seemed to care for him, it's no wonder that he bonded more with him than his parents. Udo's comment about Eldians being treated worse around the world also showcases why Zeke develops his mindset. Zeke is a hurting man who's tired of it all. A brilliant Monke.
and that's why i love him sm
His character arc way to the end is perfect,an S tier character
Grisha's biggest mistake is Joining the rebels interpreting the history book without actually being able to read the words. He made up history. He lied. Marley isn't the only nation that lived through Eldia's reign of terror. The rest of the world did too. Grisha should have sought the truth not spread ignorance. Had he not joined the Rebels he would not have met Dina, had eren and zeke. However Grisha's Failure was the world's biggest win so I can't be mad at the guy.
Still can't forgive him for s3
Wow, that's a really good point. I completely forgot he basically told Zeke go "die in 13 years".
I was so caught up in how badly Grisha handled Zeke failing to get a titan I forgot how much of an ask it was if Zeke succeeded.
I think people don't understand Levi's position when he captured Zeke, so I'm gonna put for you his reasoning at that moment:
A- He can't kill Zeke because Marley and the world have united and coming to destroy Paradise and kill every last Eldian in it, So they need to use the Rumbling to Push them back, and guess who is the only available People with Royal Blood?Zeke and the current Eldian Queen Historia (who is also pregnant as well). Also, he can't just feed Zeke to a random Eldian because of two reasons; 1- Zeke has alot of devoted followers that consider him borderline God, so by killing him they would create enemies in their midst which they can't have when there's a battle against the Entire World very soon.
2- Because of Erens mission in Libirio, Marley, The World is coming for Paraduse very soon, therefore they need someone who can turn into a Titan WITH Royal Blood ready at hand to activate the Rumbling.
B- Zeke DEVOTED his entire life to achieve his mission (which Levi and Hanje thinks is the use of the Rumbling to force the world into submission) so by blowing himself up, Zeke did the most illogical and out of character thing ever, which Levi, understandably so, never expected.
3- If Levi haven't put the thunder spear in Zekes Stomach, Zeke could have either turned into the Beast Titan anytime, OR he could have screamed and turned other nearby innocent Eldians into titans and tried to kill Levi. The Thunder Spear was wraped around his neck to stop him from screaming AND it was also in his stomach to stop him form regenerating. So unlike alot of peoples opinion regarding Levi supposedly "underestimation" of Zeke, his plan was actually borderline Paranoia.
*Zeke *perfect
all good points.
but where i felt his planning was sloppy was the part where he kept cutting his legs so he wont regenerate
so tbh he didnt need to put the bomb in his stomach to keep him from regening but anyway ignoring that
i mean you are cutting someone's legs
anyone would jerk their whole body if you do that
i am impressed zeke didnt do that
but if zeke did give a normal reaction like anyone else would have then levi and him both should have gotten blasted the moment he cut his legs (also pretty sure titan powers don't heighten your pain threshold)
I love how Zeke assumes Eren is brainwashed like Grisha wasn't all riddles & secrets when it came to Eren. He didn't tell him shit lmao.
burh thats fax fax lmao
@@ocast999 That fucking secret basement lmao.
Yeah, plus Zeke doesn't know that, after coming to Paradis, his dad realized his actions towards Zeke were wrong, as we get from the remorseful wording in his diary admitting he repeated his own father's mistake
Remember this comment when you finish the series lmao
@@asdmfgh I've read the manga lol. But I get what you're alluding to.
Eren is technically the kid that Grisha has alway wanted, but he never put pressure on Eren and let him free to do what he want.
He learned his mistakes from zeke
you do realize that this is a spoiler right?
Yeah someone said beautifully that 'Eren was the kid Girisha wanted in Marley and Zeke was the kid Grisha wanted in Paradis', such a tragic thing.
@@joshuaomar2992 It literally isn’t. This episode is literally what you said it wasn’t.
LOL. I will not say anything.
I think it’s natural to feel sorry for Zeke as he was just a child when this was all thrust upon him. In fact, I think the fact that children carry the brunt of these wars is one of the series’ central themes and is so well-explained in Sasha’s father’s speech a few episodes ago.
I thought I heard someone (Sam maybe?) say that Zeke and Eren didn’t touch because of sharing memories. I don’t think it was that. They were playing it safe in not having the Founding Titan connect with someone of royal blood before they’re ready to enact their plan.
I don't get why though. Eren already had touched someone with royal blood and only managed to control surrounding Titans. What would they have to worry, right in the middle of Marley? There were no Titans around. Could he even start the Rumbling from way over there? No manga spoilers please.
@@Triattt Manga reader hear, I don’t recall them explaining if it was even possible before the only time that eren controlled the titans is what you said from the end of season 2, but I think there’s a possibility that the founding titan can control all the eldians/titans in the world because of what was said in this episode about the epidemic and the founding titan altering the anatomy of ALL eldians (therefore all around the world).
@@manuelamaya6464 But that's another thing I don't get. If they're afraid that they'd instantly control all eldians, why not just make them all infertile right away? That way if anything happens to either of them, the plan still remains in motion.
At first glance Zeke's plan sounds nuts, but remember at this point in the story it's impossible to resolve the issue without people dying, so the best solution is the one that produces less casualty
True
Agreed
The way the manga ends pretty much proves Zeke right.
@UC6mQhtDDvoGx96pDLH50liA why the fuck would you bring up anything about how this ends when we’re watching the show you fuck
So I assume you’re black by your profile picture? Would the black slaves in America rather have not existed? Should Martin Luther king have told black people to stop reproducing because of the inequalities they faced? Or would you agree that people should fight for their freedoms and equality?
17:00 - I honestly don't think Zeke really hated his parents. Of course he had some resentment for them but he was still saddened that he had to turn them in. I guess he realized they were going to be sent to Paradis either way, so he might as well jump the gun and save himself and advance his own plan while doing so.
Yeah, Zeke saved not only himself, but his grandparents too.
Grisha was sloppy, and on the verge of getting caught, and he was also full-on militant.
Even if Zeke had gotten the Beast Titan normally, with Grisha running things, there would have been no way forward without unprecedented carnage on both sides.
Ksaver was seen briefly twice last season, he was a young man when Grisha and Faye run past him in Liberio to see the airship, and he’s shown hugging Zeke as he points out Grisha and Dina
At the end I think zekes plan will bring peace to the world with least amount of casualties and that's what matters
ya exactly. Grisha's plan is to restore the Eldian Empire because he thought it was good for the world. Zeke's plan is to remove all Eldians from the world in the LEAST terrible way possible. Aside from his plan, the alternative is the world comes and kills every single Eldian. Zeke's plan is by far the most peaceful to solve the problem.
Yessir
The extinction of an entire race won’t bring peace to the world. Sure the titans titans will be gone, but the cycle of hate will not stop. If anything once Marley loses their powers, they’ll lose their entire nation to other nations they’ve took over. Millions upon millions will be gone. There you go a new cycle of hate will be birth. I don’t hate, nor do I agree with his plan and spoiler alert
Erens plan, but I do see were they’re both coming from. I see their reasons behind their ideologies. They both have their own ways of doing things whether it may be good or bad. You don’t have to like them, but at least understand were they’re both coming from. Their plans have flaws no matter how “heroic” they may sound to some viewers. That’s what makes this story complex and amazing despite the flaws it may have and the hate it gets.
But you cant expect the people that are the casualties to just accept this. This "least amount of casualities" for them is everything
Do u really think that the world will give a fuck whether the Paradisians are sterilized or not 🙄😂😂😂 they will still attack and wipe all of them out.
From my point of view, I think eren himself has a different plan, because the core fundamental of his character is the idea of Freedom. That;s been the only thing that was consistent with Eren since S1E1. So to just go ahead and take the freedom to bear kids from all Endians, nah something doesn't add up. Not to mention the line from Carla in S3 where she says Eren is already special cause he was born into this world, yeah definitely not something Eren would be down for. I smell something else cooking in the background. And in the entire s4 so far, we haven't gotten Eren's POV yet, its been from Reiners pov of talking with eren, Armins pov of talking with eren, Hange talking with Eren. There has to be a reason.
Same I think theres no way eren would agree to something like this and id just using zeke
I agree. The POV change was telling. Also, his wording is very specific. He wants to rid the world of Titan rule (both in the hands of Marley and Eldians) and said nothing about eliminating all Eldians. My hope is that he’s using this upcoming connection to speak with Ymir and break the curse. I think what Ksaver said about changing their biology is key, just not in the way Zeke wants to.
Just wait for pt2
so we have a really smart person here
Zeke and Grisha's ideas of peace are vastly different. Grisha's involved a lot of fighting and bloodshed to go back to the island, "re-take" the founder (kill the original host and kill those who abetted their actions), and then "free" the Eldians being kept in the internment zones (by fighting and killing Marleyans), and then eventually taking over Marley to make it Eldian-ran again. That's a whole war where thousands upon thousands would die. Meanwhile, as much as we hate Zeke, he's only directly killed like a hundred people and his plan is to give Eldians permanent birth control so that their species peacefully dies out in a hundred years or so. That would bring all conflicts to an end over time.
EDIT: I am simply presenting this argument from Zeke's viewpoint. *NO* I don't think genocide is "peaceful", but Zeke and Ksaver do.
Over time I would hope it would bring it to the end. I just hope that Marleyans wouldn't still hold contempt against Eldians even when they can't reproduce. -Morgan
@@TheReactPack That's a good point, who's to say that the world wouldn't want to still wipe out Eldians even if they are unable to bear children, they would still be able to turn into titans right? Zeke seems to be lost and I hope Eren has realized that Zeke's plan is very flawed and has one of his own, it is his decision after all.
The euthanization doesn't account a lot of problems and definitely doesn't account for how the entire world is still stuck in a cycle of war that doesn't necessarily have to do with Eldians. Hence the point about weapons development and technology surpassing titans.
@@SupposeIRose yeah but Marley would no longer have their titan weapons. Just because war still continues doesn't mean that it's not a good choice to get rid of what is essentially their nukes
@@solesofwind9543 this is literally addressed in the very next episode. They would use the threat of the Rumbling to keep other nations at bay while they live in peace
Honestly, Zeke’s plan is kinda the most logical and less brutal. So long as Titans exist, someone’s gonna use them to dominate the world (whether by Eldia or Marley). Titans will exist so long as Eldians exist, and you don't have to live w the fact that million of inocent people had to die just so u can live.
@@Coolasthebreez3 The power would transfer to a new born Eldian but with Zeke’s plan no more Eldians would be born so no one would inherit the Titan shifter’s power.
@@Coolasthebreez3 Whoever controls the founding titan can affect the Eldian’s bodies and memories whether they accept it or not. If Eren followed Zeke’s plan they could euthanize the Eldians and erase their memories just like Karl Fritz did to his people when he moved them to Paradise Island.
@@Coolasthebreez3 What do you mean? The curse of ymir is when titan shifter die after 13 years.
@@Coolasthebreez3 The Ackermans and the Asian clan were immune to the King’s Fritz’s ideology but they’ve been reduced to a handful and they can’t use the Titans power themselves .The Asian clan are neither Eldians nor Subjects of Ymir and Kenny’s grandfather speculated that Ackermans are also not Subjects of Ymir which would explain why there’s never been an Ackerman titan shifter. Even if they didn’t accept Zeke’s plan they wouldn’t be able to use the founding titan to reverse it.
@@Coolasthebreez3 I’m not saying Zeke’s plan is right or wrong either but there’s a counter to every point you’ve made about how it could reversed. Sure, they could just tell everyone but that’s assuming they’ll listen and cooperate. We’re dealing with the memory and body altering of an entire race of people here. How long would it take to rally them into action?
Unlike Eren or Grisha, Zeke never wanted to change things directly by confronting the world and going into war. Hence why he went so different than what his father would've wanted him to. Zeke doesn't want to fight until the end, he just want things to stop and to him, the only way to get that is to suppress the origin of the conflict, which he considers being the eldians. I think that, just as Ksaver, he wished he was never born into this world as well, which emphasize the fact that he called him father. He kinda inherited his feelings and his way of seeing life. And that also explains why his solution to the problem is this euthanization plan and not to stand his ground against the world and fight it off
Fam, I'm so sad the series is almost over.
Sole Salvation is ONE OF THE BEST EPISODES OF THE SEASON.
I just love that you love it. LOL.
The military reluctantly agreed to what they believe to be Zeke's plan: A test of the rumbling as a warning to the rest of the world. Then continually passing down the beast titan to someone of royal blood and the founding titan to someone else to keep the threat of the rumbling alive to ward off attackers.
The Jeagerists however want Eren to actually use the rumbling (march of countless colossal titans) to stomp the rest of the world. They want to establish Eren as the leader that will bring Eldia back to glory. Only Zeke and Eren are aware of Zeke's true intentions: the "euthanasia" plan.
Yelena is aware of Zeke's plan as well.
@@islanoliveira I'm also aware of his plan as well
Levi wasn't going to kill Zeke and risk the beast titan's power going to some Eldian baby in Marley, so he was taking it to someone being turned into an irrational titan and eating him...(he just tortured him) xD
Zeke was such a good boy like Falco before Grisha started to brainwash him at a young age.
Remeber at the end of season 3 when you learned aboout grisha's past from his point of view? He seemed to be a good dad who didn't understand why his son betrayed him.
he never stated that he treated his son well, quite the opposite, but he didnt made it like a strong point, he just put the phrase, - what a terrible sin is to impose your believes on your child - making a point on how he did the same bad stuff his own father did to him
I 100% think Eren is playing Zeke. Zeke has been wanting someone to trust for this mission and Eren can probably sense it. Plus Eren has always said "Because I was born into this world" whereas Ksaver and Zeke say "If only I wasn't born" 🤔🤔
As a manga reader I totally agree 👍
Yeah I'm surprised a number of people believe Eren in that last scene with Zeke. The phrase "there is no greater salvation than never being born into this world" is in stark contrast to the phrase that his mom inspired him with, "you're special because you were born into this world".
Last ep "LETS GO LEVI, YOU UNDERESTIMATED HIM ZEKE"
One ep later lmao
The tides have turned
Officially after this episode Zeke becomes one of my Top 3 Characters in this show
its perfectly fine to feel bad for Zeke when he was growing up because of everything we saw. but dont forget, he was still enjoying himself when he was wiping out the scouts. theres no excuse for that, even with a bad childhood
His childhood turned him into a monster. Just like Annie who was enjoying herself killing all those scouts too.
@@eviIsorrow ok? what i said still stands
@@MurciPrime society molds a person into what they are now. horrible experiences zeke experienced like the pressure he had from his father and bad treatment greatly influenced zekes behavior. believe me, I don’t agree with what zeke did with erwin and his soldiers but I think he has a good excuse for his behavior. but I see where you’re coming from
its not excuse its a coping mechanism , rather block your feelings and try to enjoy it somehow to not deal with the trauma. He cant give anything away , so hes gotta do what he gotta do . i dont think he had a choice or any other way
That was very clearly just a coping mechanism. He wasn't actually having fun. We literally see how pissed off and sad he gets when they all throw their lives away on a suicide charge
4:15 Just remember what pyxis said a few episodes ago: The best way to tell lies is to mix in a little bit of the truth.
This episode is the reason why Zeke is everyone's favorite character or at least in top 5.
Oh many more zeke episodes are coming on pt 2 can't wait
Not everyone.
Zeke bad monke
Hes an amazing character, but probably not my top 5
Zeke top 3
Zekes parents just treated him terribly. Pair that with Ksaver actually treating him well and telling zeke this could spare your grandparents who zeke actually loved as well, he had no issue turning his parents in. Zeke wouldve had the people he loved and would've lost nothing in his mind. He didn't plan on being the beast titan until Ksaver broke down in front of him and that's when zeke opened his eyes and mind to the tragedy befalling his people and decided to use his powers to further his plan to save his people
remember that the owl told grisha to go to the island and start a family ultimately and only to give his son the attack titan and carry on with the plan, but grisha didn’t put any pressure on eren and didn’t even tell him about eldia although he was planning to
Zeke deserves better 😥💛
I just cannot see Eren allowing this to happen. Letting his friends and Mikasa die just bc of their race? It's just not Eren's character. We're underestimating him.
Well spoilers eren will not let a lot of people die especially Mikasa and Armin . Because his end goal was to piss off Mikasa so she isn't serving him anymore . And when push comes to shove . Meaning when eren turns in the rumble .Mikasa will be the only one powerful enough to kill him .
Eren "The greatest salvation is not being born into this world" Sike Jaeger
"I would, uh, right in my journal!" so cute lol
00:00 TIME FOR KSAVER 👌🏾 AND GRISHA'S DISTRESSING BEHAVIOR
15:22 tho it's more like a sterilization plan, ig they picked a word more from the point that this is an extended euthenization
He just wanted to be a normal kid 😢 if he included the normal child treatment, this might've went well
This comment keeps popping up, but: Eren was the son Grisha wanted in Marley, and Zeke was the son he wanted on Paradis
When I think about that it just _hurts_
Second part comes out in January.
6:23 the kid just grabbing on to the legs of that poor woman in the middle without her consenting at all. That’s just SO uncalled for! 😤
Haha
I'm sympathetic towards little Zeke, I respect and understand adult Zeke but I still absolutely dislike him, personality-wise.
me too! never liked zeke. but yes respek and understood him
I don't think it was sloppy of Levi, zeke is a royal titan im sure zeke doing a suicide self bombing wasn't an option in Levis brain 🤷🏻♂️ good vid tho guys
Nah levi was a moron
Here is where I sympathized with Zeke and took his side
So you're a Levi hater
I think it's important to understand the show's references to Nazi Germany and its treatment of the Jews. Everything from the arm bands to the Internment Zone are meant to be references. The troubling thing about Zeke's and Eren's plan is that it is literally genocide via eugenics which was also a part of the Nazi's ideology. The term "euthanasia plan" is a bit of a misnomer. I think Zeke and Eren genuinely think it is the lesser evil, but it is definitely evil.
To be more clear. I hold out hope that Eren has some secret second plan that won't result in him committing genocide, but we'll all have to wait for the second half of the season to see if that's true!
I don't know if it's a plot hol, but I don't understand what the Jaguerists' purpose is, Yelena clearly knows Zeke's plan and told Eren's friends about the plan to make the Eldians infertile. It is clear that Floch would not agree with this plan as he wants to create a new empire for the Eldians and both Floch and Yelena are close. So is there any explanation for this or is it a plot hole? As for Eren, I'm pretty sure he's using Zeke (this is not a spoiler it's just my opinion). Sorry for my English, I'm learning.
I don't understand it either and to me it seems like a plot hole, Yelena has different goals than Floch but somehow I don't understand they work together. And for me it's too forced Floch to accept Zeke as an "ally" after everything he witnessed.
Not gonna spoil for you guys, but Floch knows Eren's real plan. Not a plot hole
@@MrMegaDboy Thank you very much for the reply, good to know this is not a plot hole.
@@akilarodrigues7065 don’t worry it’s not a plot hole
they make us hate zeke the last episode & then they drop this episode & we feel so bad
I don't know if it makes me look crazy but I like their (Zeke and Eren) plan, eldians in marley are suffering, eldians in paradise are too as in they could and would/will get invaded forever, to kill them because they are eldians or for ressources (or other reasons).
I like the plan because, unlike our real world, they can turn into titans.. with them alive even if you kill all Power Titans they'll just be reborn in an eldian baby. If there's no eldians that would make everything 'fine' (if they are not fighting eldians they'll just find another race/country/or whatever to make war, there's no solution for that but for all those, they cant become 'weapons'), still it is a hard decision. *not a manga reader*
Grisha wanted to save Eldians from the rest of the world, Zeke wanted to save the world from the fear of the Titans, hence eldians. Now you should discuss about the morality of their wishes.
Also, eren wasn't a victim of grisha. Eren wanted to get out of the walls himself. Only after that did grisha tell him about the key. In the first episode of season 1.
Ackermann cannot become titans.. they were designed to protect the King and they are the result of generic experiments by royal family 2000 years ago.. it was explained by Zeke in Manga.. sad that was not covered in the Anime..
I never realized until my friend told me that zekes 25 and Levi like 30 😅
Whats kinda funny is wen we first find out about the outside world. In Grisha's story he makes it seem lik zeke betrayed them but in all react he treated his son terribly. This anime/manga really shows how a story from 2 different pov's may be very different lol
Exactly
No it doesn't pay some fucking attention
OMG , usually I don't comment , but I just realized something crazy. The scene where Zeke is throwing the baseball ball to Eren is the same as Ymir and the devil, I saw the same picture in my mind but with Ymir and the devil holding the apple instead of the ball (I'm talking about that deal they talked about in S3). For some reason I didn't see that when I was watching the anime.
16:02 RIP ears
Yeah the plan prevent Marleyans to come accross the island by using a mini rumbling. it would make the population of Paradis leaves for atleast 100 years, with no ability to have kids.
Levi dumbest charger ever
But badass too
Levi can't turn into titan because he is Ackerman
Ackerman’s Can’t turn into Titans because they Are already Warriors Created with The blood of titans …. However They Are Subject of Yamir but cannot Transform…
As if anyone would believe mister plot armor would die here. Levi is made of fangirls' hopes and dreams.
i think eren need zeeks to do the rumbling , cause he dont want to use historia , but eren dont agree at all whit zeeke , thats my point , we will see in the end .. but i dont know ,, the coordinae can see memories ahead , like kruger did , so eren know more than anyone there ... only him know the future xd
why the world fear eldians that much and ksvar's wife was willing to kill her own son? just remember what happened last episode, when levi's team drink something wrong, regardless their own intention, they could turn to titans and attack others without any hesitation.
and the difference between zeke and grisha is that zeke understands why other races fear eldian, while grisha was all about the rage of the treatment suffered by eldians.
Zeke>levi
also the ackermans can’t turn into titans because they are titan experiments
Y’all brave soldiers for reading comments 😭😭😭
Fun fact : you can see tom ksaver hugging lil zeke in s3 ep 20
That dude doesn't understand that Ackermans cannot turn into titans and they the byproducts of titan science and have titan strength in human form. The Ackerman was just a laboratory experiment and the power passes through Ackerman blood.
You dont understand that, that's only covered in the manga. That part was taken out of the anime. Idk why you would put that here and spoil that for them. Being byproducts of science experimentation and not turning into titans hasnt been discussed in the anime at all. They were very clear on this.
Sadly people who havent read the manga probably will never know that because all the dialogue about the Ackermans being a byproduct of titan experiments has been cut from the anime, which is baffling considering that it is very important for something that happens in the later parts but oh well
Onyakapon:”we were born cuz we were wanted”
Eren and zeke:”no”
Zeke and Eren have same Goal , they want to save everyone from The Titan Domination and put end of The Era Of The Titans and Eren is only fighting for freedom is to protect his friends from dieing ! 👏🏻🔥
Eren "Born into this World" Yeager saying these things seems very sus to me
i think we have never seen an ackermann turning into a titan
Zeke’s viewpoint is understandable but still problematic af, there’s gotta be a better way.
It's better than killing everyone outside the walls
@@solesofwind9543 "A race of people that can turn into titans", that's not the same as the Jews back then, it's not the same at all.
People had the right to fear the Paradis people, let's remember that the war just ended 100 years ago from where we are today, and the only thing that people outside the walls knew (before Willy's speech) was that Tybur's familly and Marley defeated the king Fritz and that he ran away and hid in the walls. People is right to fear the Paradis people, to them, they are the same "monsters" who had dominated the world with titans for 2000 years and that they might do it again.
@@solesofwind9543 There's is no good side and bad side in this story my man, except if someone is trying to end the world, that guy would be the only villian on the story
@@solesofwind9543 Imagine WW2 ending with USA detroying the rest of the world and only they end up surviving
@@solesofwind9543 Yea i get you, but for me is that it's very difficult to choose Eren's side just because we fell in love with the characters, it just too lame to me. Not understanding the other side of the world wich are millions of innocent lives that he is killing, people just like him and his friends. For me, that is leaving behind common sense and being bias
I think i read it before in manga they said ackerman can't turn to a titan
that's right but that hasn't been talked about in the anime at all so ofc they don't know
I wonder if there is more connection between older and new inherits we possible didnt realise, cuz we didnt know...
would be weird if Berthold and Armin didnt have any 'moments' in the past they couldnt explain
I find it weird not even Alex brought up the fact that Eren might only be pretending to go along with Zeke's plan and that he might have his own plan once they "make contact." I haven't read the manga so I have no idea, just some more food for thought.
Levi served Erwin
The anime made the scene where Zeke and Grisha are arguing at the dinner table make Grisha look like a horrible father but in the manga there was more context. After Grisha finishes that last sentence Zeke says "But grandpa said that if you hadn't gone outside the walls" then there's a long pause and Grisha replies back "What did I do wrong? I just wanted to see the airship." Yes, its sad that Grisha made Zeke do all of this but you really feel bad for him and understand why he made that goal for this son.
He is a horrible father even Grisha acknowledge that if you remember what he said to Kruger that he was a terrible father to Zeke, but he didn't make the same mistake with Eren because he raised him differently
@@grishajaeger9827 I agree but there's a whole lot of context that the anime left out. Still a great adaptation.
@@nicolasperez-sar2006 True
This dude looks like Ryan Gosling
"im stressed" i felt it
This is a great episode and I love that we get insight into Zeke. His plan is just awful though. His solution to genocide...is genocide. I feel like Zeke's been beat down so much by life and his existance as an Eldian that he just doesn't see hope for his people. In his eyes, his plan is correct because having no suffering by not existing is better than suffering your entire life. I don't agree with it (Eldians can still be treated like crap and taking away an entire people's ability to reproduce without consent is a whole other bag of problems) but I definitely understand how he came to this conclusion.
Zekes plan is per definition not genocide, as that involves actual mass killings to take place. And out of all the plans shown so far that would resolve the eldian conflict Zekes is the one with the least amount of bloodshed by far.
@@dirkdanger9688 Hello, so under many definitions of genocide, as far as international law,, treaties, groups, etc certain types of eugenics fulfil the criteria. As in "Imposing measures intended to prevent births within [a national, ethnical, racial or religious] group". Of course, thats not the sole criteria, as of course, many people tend to think just of the more active act of killing and slaughtering... but the comment you are replying to, is accurate in context.
The MP`s want a parcial rumbling, the eagerist want a full rumbling and Zeke and Eren wants no rumbling at all
It's hard to root for Hange and the gang because they have no plan, like they don't know what to do with this whole situation meanwhile Eren and Zeke actually have a plan
Here is the problem. Eren is part if the reason why they have no plan. The first part of Zeke plan was to use the rumbling to keep Marleyans away from paradis and then give his beast titan to an Eldian of Royal blood. Eren opposed to that in front of Hange and suggested to not use the rumbling yet. Then did something crazy behind everyone's back. He made them lost time and then lost their trust to the OG plan and Zeke.
@@sgcastle8389 How is it Eren's fault? They took 4 years trying to find another way and they came up with nothing
@@randeroni *Not 4 years, 2 years* , Yelena arrived to paradis after the death of all titans from the island, which happened a 1 year after Reiner left. She came her months after the last scene of season 3. When she was there she gave the possibility to use the rumbling for Eldia through Zeke but the full plan was only revealed when she brought the Azumabito *a year after later* ".
*As for how Eren is a problem here* , because the plan involved Historia having the beast titan, Eren opposed to that plan in front of everyone insisting to let the rumbling aside. It's pushed Hange to have some plan (SPOILER) that took sometime to be ready ( *almost a year too* ) that plan failed, Eren diseapered to do things behind their back, they spent the rest of the time looking for Eren, until he makes contact force them to take part in the fight, cause the death of lot of soldier including Sasha didn't say anything about his deal with Yelena meaning that the only plan they had, and their best weapon couldn't be trusted anymore.
*Eren made the higher ups put the OG plan aside for like a year and then did things behind their back, and hid things from them, which caused to lose their trust in him.*
@@sgcastle8389 4 years, 2 years, whatever the point still stands. I still don't get how it's Eren's fault they had no plan. Sure, he convinced everyone to not go through with Zeke's plan at first and look for other options. But that just delayed the plan they already had, it didn't prevent them from coming up with other plans. They simply didn't have many options, it doesn't matter if they had 2 years to think about it or 10 years. It's an impossible situation.
Regardless, lets say they did go through with Zeke's plan right away. They would still need to take a year of preparation to plan for the attack. And after they get Zeke, sure they would still trust Eren, but there's no way in hell they would trust Zeke. It would ultimately end up the same way, with them keeping Zeke hidden away for months while waiting for the bureaucrats to take their thumbs out of their asses and actually do something
@@randeroni "But that just delayed the plan they already had, it didn't prevent them from coming up with other plans. They simply didn't have many options, it doesn't matter if they had 2 years to think about it or 10 years. It's an impossible situation." That delayed the plan for 2 years, they had tp make another which is a spoiler if you did not read the manga but it failed, the delaying cost alot and that include Zeke's remaining time on earth. it'll be more clear when i anwser the second part of your question.
*Explaining the second part of your reply will answer why it's also Eren's fault if they didn't have option.* You said even if they followed the plan right away it would end up in the same way. that's wrong, it would've been different for one specific reason: *Historia*
See , since they don't trust Zeke, *he would've been fed to Historia right away* , she would've became the beast, and with Eren they would've done the mini rumbling just as planned, and all of that would've happened sooner.
*But Because Eren opposed Historia being a titan he conspired with Zeke and Yelena instead of his own crew, that lead to historia being pregnant which made her impossible to become a titan, to Zeke being alive longer hidden away for months; while the bureaucrats were waiting for Historia to have her child, to try again, and trying to find the snakes in their garden, thanks to Eren not being trusted anymore with the founding because he , the Death of Zachary and more.*
To put it simply it's also Eren's in fault if they didn't have option, *because he took away their last option for Historia.*
16:36
So, essentially you are right that Grisha and Zeke's goals aren't particularly different from one another. Zeke believes, that there is no world where Eldians can coexist with the rest of humanity, and so this plan that he has come up with appears to be the most peaceful possible solution to the issue. Of course Grisha and Zeke would both like to see Eldians not subjugated and destroyed, but alas the world of Attack on Titan is more robust than such naive idealism.
Levi can’t turn into a Titan. He’s an Ackerman. They’re immune
Zeke from this episode give me a Shinji from Eva vibe, or Amuro from Gundam
the pressure of saving the world or a country is too much for a kid
At this point in the story, there 3 plans to go with: (1) Zeke's proposed plan to pass down a royal Beast Titan to always have the option of the Rumbling to discourage the rest of the world from attacking Eldia by breeding royal blood for the sole purpose of it. (2) Zeke's actual plan, euthanization by not allowing Eldians to bear children, which would work only if a royal Beast Titan and a Founding Titan were to be the last of the Eldian populace so the depleting race could still live in peace due to the threat of the Rumbling keeping the rest of the world at bay. (3) Use the Rumbling to kill all humanity on Earth except for Eldia.
Option 1 is what I would do.
@@TequilaToothpick I'd go with option 2
@@randy7796 It's better than 3 for sure, but I would never go with s genocide option.
@@TequilaToothpick saying it's genocide is extreme IMO, as it doesn't fit the definition at all. I only chose option 2 because it's the only plan that doesn't require sacrificing anybody's life. Although, it still requires the passing down of some titan powers, but not indefinitely like in option 1. I guess it all depends on how much you value the ability to reproduce, though. If option 2 is akin to genocide to you, then I can see why you wouldn't want to choose it. Isayama really did do a great job of creating a hopeless setting; the themes mirror irl very well, but the fantasy aspect of it (man-eating monsters with human personas and characteristics) makes it so there is no right or wrong solution. Like, if AOT was a regular horror/thriller, post-apocalyptic show, the protagonists would just be regular humans like us while the antagonists would just be the Titans with some cliche sci-fi explanation for their existence (like how zombies are usually caused by scientific experimentation) and a plot that just progresses with physical conflict only.
You're getting close to the end of this season :O idk if you take on recommendations from comments but I'd love to see you react to Arcane, it's not an anime but it is an animated show and it's extremely good!!
they're watching it. coming asap
I'm also very conflicted of what should be the right plan to take to save everyone, considering peace seems like not an option anymore. What really is the best plan for this situation? I've been really coming up with plans myself. And I realized Eren must be also doing the same thing for the past 4 years, constantly seeking for a plan. I think what prompted Eren to take action outside the scouts plans is because they are running out of time. No matter what, Hange, Armin and the others in the Military have not really devised a concrete plan all these years. Knowing the the world will eventually attack Paradis, Eren had no choice but to take actions himself.
Young Zeke's voice actor is same as Deku.
20:00 that writing form tho
I reacted the same way when the Thunder Spear was detonated.....
Guys lets all wear glasses and not tell morgan
Looking forward for the finale reaction....👍🏻👍🏻
Eren was the son Grisha wanted outside the walls and Zeke was the son Grisha wanted within the walls.
Y'all still haven't seen the picture huh? :(
Eren was the son Grisha needed in Liberio.
To all subject of Ymir. *My name is Eren Jaeger.* I'm using the power of the Founding Titan to address all of Ymir's subjects the hardening of all walls present on Paradis has come undone and all titans entrapped within them have begun to walk. My Goal... is to protect the people of Paradis, the place where i was born and raised, but the world desires the exitiction of the people of Paradise Over countless years, their hatred has grown beyond this island. They surely will not stop until they have killed every one of the subjects of Ymir. *I reject their desire* The titans of the walls will trample and rumble all the lands beyond this island, until the lives there... are eliminated from this world
This may B my "crushin" bias.. Bt I couldn't take my eyes off Dani.. Aka the queen Yushi
I love this chanel, I love they reactions and morgan and sam are the best persons. SWEET
"It's okay Falco your big brother is here, I won't let you go."
Haha Levi goes boom
19:50 Dani referencing Death Note ? 😂
The point is that we all want freedom, both in AOT and in real life, Zeke's plan seems peaceful and good but in reality it is an atrocity, a long-term genocide done by a person with power who decides that an entire community or ethnicity is not going to reproduce with the intention of ending them. In addition to that he takes away the power to decide from everyone, if they will have children or not
8:08 good catch, I thought you were going to miss that out.
By the way is Sam single?
Didn't Levi unlocks his full Ackerman power in the OVA?
Grisha wanted to restore Eldia while Zeke wants ro end Eldia (i.e titans dominance).
12:15 that's a easter egg
" Maybe the ackerman just have to have kids for them"
(;ﾟдﾟ)