Probably worth noting that corrosion resistance also declines as hardness increases, as a general rule. Also, while I applaud manufacturers for publishing hardness ranges ... there are likely to be examples that fall out of the range with large volume producers. I've tested almost a dozen Magnacut blades using a Leeb tester, which is not as bullet proof as an indenter-type tester, but my results generally fall in line with what you would expect (and with what others have found). In order of hardness: ABW Model 2: 64 hrc Oz Roosevelt: 64 hrc Hogue RSK: 63.4 hrc Les George VECP: 62.3 hrc Les George MK 3: 62 hrc Tactile Archer: 62 hrc Mcnees Mac 2 3.5: 61.6 hrc Golden Designworks Caliber (Bestech): 61.4 hrc Merriken Mini Ultimatum (Reate): 61.3 hrc Curtiss F3 Medium: 57.5 hrc Tactile Rockwell (early run before they bumped up hardness): 57.5 hrc FWIW
Larrin Thomas stated his favorite budget steels are 14C28N and to a lesser degree Nitro-V. For the middle range (so called premium) he liked S30V and S35VN, but now he prefers Magnacut. For top of the edge retention category he likes S90V and S110. I believe this was for folders (EDC) and not personal protection or outdoor type usage. An interesting factor is when a blade exceeds 12 inches (swords/larger knives) and you get into the realm of requiring flexibility and toughness. I would be interested to hear what he likes in that size range. I am a personal protection user foremost, so the steel does not matter, although toughness is important. Serrations are also useful in this category.
I think you're right about the application being critical to determining what properties are most important, the bigger conversation there includes blade and edge geometry as well
I was thinking the same thing. The application being a be factor, but also the size and shape of the blade. Any blade length over 4 inches needs to consider lower heat treats for flexibility, toughness, and possibly easier sharpening. If sharpening a 3 inch blade at 65 is tough imagine doing the same for a 10 in. + blade😅. Would be extremely hard to keep the edge angle consistent for the amount of time needed.
Steel Snobs best series of videos going. I always learn something. I don't have many knives in Magnacut, far more knives in S90V, probably more due to cost than anything. I was under the impression that this high end steel needed to be at 64-65 or nothing. Now I know better.
Thanks! I love this series too, I am trying to plan in at least one episode per month, it's been harder than I anticipated to do this but there are MANY more episodes that have been planned and just need to be fleshed out, already looking forward to the next one 🙌
Thanks Dave! The key is really what allows the steel to retain the edge, many people still don't understand that a well balanced mix of properties is key, More than just wear resistance.but I'm doing my best to get the word out😂🙌
Thanks! They require more editing and production than my regular videos but I am definitely prioritizing them more than I used to moving forward- more to come🍻
Good thoughts. I was having a thought earlier about how the different properties affect sharpenability. e.g. does magnacut at a higher HRC deburr more easily than softer since toughness is a resistance to breaking. I was of course trying to sharpen my ZT 0545 in Magnacut. I should probably get a decent magnifier since I'm totally guessing at whether I actually nailed the burr or not.
Still waiting on the satin PM2 salt. Im giving it 2 weeks before I just throw down on the Manix salt. Ive been saving 20 here and there for so long that I can get both and maybe even the SPY27 Military 2 in a month. S90V slays countless boxes without breaking a sweat and cruwear gets the rough jobs like wires done. Been waiting forever to see if Magnacut can really do both whilst staying the most pristine looking.
My use case includes a lot of food prep, for which the corrosion resistance of MagnaCut is ideal. No problem with onions, lemons, meat, etc. Using acute angles of between 14-17 degrees per side demands a bit of toughness, to avoid small chips in the edge when cutting hard food. So 60-62 HRC seems to do the trick for me 😊
Absolutely, and that's a great example of a purpose forward rockwell target, with edge and blade geometry of kitchen knives being much thinner wear resistance properties are less important since the geometry itself provides more of the edge retention at that point and toughness becomes much more important! Thanks for watching 🙌
Hi, sorry for taking the liberty but I would like to make a clarification regarding Italian heat treatments. All the companies in Maniago have the heat treatments done by the same company that cuts the blade shapes, namely TTT (Trattamenti Termici Todesco). So it seems quite strange to me that there is this difference for every single company. I have personally tested the hardness of several Italian magnacut knives and they are all around 62 HRC. The test was performed with a hardness tester used in an aeronautical company, therefore a machine with periodic calibration. Another guy on TH-cam did tests on several knives from spyderco, benchmade, hogue, lionsteel, mkm, Protech, etc... For Spyderco and Benchmade the result is 60 HRC because it is used in the SALT/water series and the target is to have a corrosion resistant steel. For Protech, Hogue, Lionsteel and Viper the result was 63 HRC. I'm not writing this comment to defend Italian knives, but people often talk about "soft treats" without ever having put a blade under a Hardness tester.
What's interesting is that if they all have the same source doing the heat treats why do they advertise differently, or maybe this difference in advertising has to do with tests from each batch? Hard to say, what's not hard to say is that for whatever reason historical rockwell tests have shown Italian companies on the softer side of heat treats(that doesn't mean "bad" just "softer") also if I'm not mistaken I believe I know the channel you're referring to on the magnacut rockwell tests, if my assumption is correct and the one your referencing is the one who uses a leeb rebound style tester you can throw out those results since that tool is specifically not meant to be used on knives due to their lack of weight and density-ive confirmed this with Larrin Thomas directly as an industry expert (manufacturer of the rebound tester even states this) the last spyderco in magnacut that I saw tested with an indenter style hrc test in magnacut came back at 62.5, this is documented by the channel Cedric and Ada(of course this does not mean that is the target but it probably reflects the middle of the range they aim for like with most companies)- thanks for watching and for the great discussion piece🙌
I stand by 63 to 64 hrc for the majority of folding knives is ideal, fixed blades 62hrc. Toughness does come from HRC but it more importantly comes from the geometry, if you want Toughness make it thicker if you want better cutting performance make it thinner. I don't see any reason what so ever to run magnacut under 63 for pocket knives. That way you are prioritizing edge retention, sharpness, ease of sharpening, and cutting performance first and foremost, Toughness comes after since it's not a fixed blade. It's important to the point we don't see blades snapping, or chipping out which I've yet to see magnacut do even at 65 hrc. So if we are seeing no issues with blades in magnacut at 65 while it still holds plenty of Toughness why would you want to prioritize the one thing that's not going to be an issue while taking away what does? It makes no sense to me. As far as the companies running it on the lower side for Toughness I'd love to see all these broken and chipped out blades they have tested at 63 to 64 because it doesn't exist. Considering all had proper heat treatment ofcourse. I always thought it goes without saying ofcourse high hrc Steele can be poorly heat treated. When talking hrc we are implying the heat treatment is done well
So this is a great discussion piece for multiple reasons..first is that at higher hrc magnacut loses corrosion resistance, that is going to be more important to some people than others based on the use case scenario(I live in Colorado, it's so dry here you could drop a piece of M4 in the water and it wouldn't rust🤣) but I'll bite on the toughness piece since this is underrated as a steel property, while I agree you can make a knife tougher by grinding it thicker doing so comes at the cost of geometry based edge retention, as we both know that thinner blade geometry = better edge retention that geometry holds up better with a steel like magnacut at 62...a good example of this is in the hrc/test results sheet Cedric and Ada have publically posted I'm the description of their videos..check The difference between the maxamet mule team and the magnacut mule team(this knife was tested at 62.5)- theoretically based on hrc and edge retention the maxamet knife should have wiped the floor with the magnacut knife...but it didnt..that's because the extra toughness magnacut has over maxamet allowed for better edge stability in a prolonged cut test...and that's a good comparison to look at because they're the same knife, same angle, different steel but it showcases the importance of toughness vs pure hardness/wear resistance..thanks for the convo Jerad!
Personally I will always want the higher hrc for a folding knife for the simple fact that it is a folding knife so I would much rather have great edge retention because no matter what steel it is if you are using your pocket knife as it was intended then it will have more than enough toughness to handle anything you do with it so I want the edge retention and if you are worried about breaking your blade then most likely you are doing something that a folding knife wasn't meant to do and need to be using a fixed blade or a completely different tool all together.
I don't think I've heard any serious knife people say magnacut actually sucks I just hear they are magnacutted out kinda like m390 there putting it on everything witch is cool but never heard it sucks of course if the HRC is in a optimal range. Dr. Thomas explains your point, your thumb nail is a lil misleading. We know it doesn't suck it's awesome 👍
Thanks for watching! My thumbnail may make more sense if you go through the comment section of my last magnacut video, I don't think a majority of people believe magnacut sucks but there are plenty of people who will state that it's just a hype steel and not at all that good, my thumbnail mentions the sweet spot for magnacut which I spend the majority of the video discussing, definitely didn't mean to mislead anyone but even if you had that impression I hope you enjoyed the content regardless🍻
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.83[2/2] ประสบการณ์ขนหัวลุกจากตำนานวงการผี!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T_kFecQw7Ds/mqdefault.jpg)
Probably worth noting that corrosion resistance also declines as hardness increases, as a general rule. Also, while I applaud manufacturers for publishing hardness ranges ... there are likely to be examples that fall out of the range with large volume producers.
I've tested almost a dozen Magnacut blades using a Leeb tester, which is not as bullet proof as an indenter-type tester, but my results generally fall in line with what you would expect (and with what others have found). In order of hardness:
ABW Model 2: 64 hrc
Oz Roosevelt: 64 hrc
Hogue RSK: 63.4 hrc
Les George VECP: 62.3 hrc
Les George MK 3: 62 hrc
Tactile Archer: 62 hrc
Mcnees Mac 2 3.5: 61.6 hrc
Golden Designworks Caliber (Bestech): 61.4 hrc
Merriken Mini Ultimatum (Reate): 61.3 hrc
Curtiss F3 Medium: 57.5 hrc
Tactile Rockwell (early run before they bumped up hardness): 57.5 hrc
FWIW
Larrin Thomas stated his favorite budget steels are 14C28N and to a lesser degree Nitro-V. For the middle range (so called premium) he liked S30V and S35VN, but now he prefers Magnacut. For top of the edge retention category he likes S90V and S110. I believe this was for folders (EDC) and not personal protection or outdoor type usage. An interesting factor is when a blade exceeds 12 inches (swords/larger knives) and you get into the realm of requiring flexibility and toughness. I would be interested to hear what he likes in that size range. I am a personal protection user foremost, so the steel does not matter, although toughness is important. Serrations are also useful in this category.
I think you're right about the application being critical to determining what properties are most important, the bigger conversation there includes blade and edge geometry as well
I was thinking the same thing. The application being a be factor, but also the size and shape of the blade. Any blade length over 4 inches needs to consider lower heat treats for flexibility, toughness, and possibly easier sharpening. If sharpening a 3 inch blade at 65 is tough imagine doing the same for a 10 in. + blade😅. Would be extremely hard to keep the edge angle consistent for the amount of time needed.
Steel Snobs best series of videos going. I always learn something. I don't have many knives in Magnacut, far more knives in S90V, probably more due to cost than anything. I was under the impression that this high end steel needed to be at 64-65 or nothing. Now I know better.
Thanks! I love this series too, I am trying to plan in at least one episode per month, it's been harder than I anticipated to do this but there are MANY more episodes that have been planned and just need to be fleshed out, already looking forward to the next one 🙌
Love the steel nerd videos. Further solidifies my logic that numbers are irrelevant in real world use 👌
I thought it got tougher at a higher hrc. Learn something new everyday.
Lmao. Who the heck is out there claiming Magnacut sucks? Only people who make their entire personality hating on popular things, that’s who!
Right😂 but trust me there are those who say that, just look at the comment section of my first magnacut video🍻
Tkell says magnacut sucks 😂😂😅😅
Another great one, Roll. Thanks for putting in the work.
I love how well put together these videos are brother! You are my spirit animal
Well done. I'd take edge retention on folding, toughness on fixed. Cheers 👐
Thanks Dave! The key is really what allows the steel to retain the edge, many people still don't understand that a well balanced mix of properties is key, More than just wear resistance.but I'm doing my best to get the word out😂🙌
@@Rollshambo and doing it well. Just remember, some people don't care about facts. 🤷♂️
Stainless cru wear. Nuff said. Amazing steel
MachineWise Sonora: 63 +/- 1 (They test each knife and write the HRC on the authenticity card!)
I love these steel snobs videos! Would love to see them more often, brother🤘
Thanks! They require more editing and production than my regular videos but I am definitely prioritizing them more than I used to moving forward- more to come🍻
I thought that Tom Cruise was the only person in the world with a middle tooth. Now, I see that Dr. Thomas also displays this unique attribute.
Good thoughts. I was having a thought earlier about how the different properties affect sharpenability. e.g. does magnacut at a higher HRC deburr more easily than softer since toughness is a resistance to breaking. I was of course trying to sharpen my ZT 0545 in Magnacut. I should probably get a decent magnifier since I'm totally guessing at whether I actually nailed the burr or not.
Still waiting on the satin PM2 salt. Im giving it 2 weeks before I just throw down on the Manix salt. Ive been saving 20 here and there for so long that I can get both and maybe even the SPY27 Military 2 in a month. S90V slays countless boxes without breaking a sweat and cruwear gets the rough jobs like wires done. Been waiting forever to see if Magnacut can really do both whilst staying the most pristine looking.
My use case includes a lot of food prep, for which the corrosion resistance of MagnaCut is ideal. No problem with onions, lemons, meat, etc. Using acute angles of between 14-17 degrees per side demands a bit of toughness, to avoid small chips in the edge when cutting hard food. So 60-62 HRC seems to do the trick for me 😊
Absolutely, and that's a great example of a purpose forward rockwell target, with edge and blade geometry of kitchen knives being much thinner wear resistance properties are less important since the geometry itself provides more of the edge retention at that point and toughness becomes much more important! Thanks for watching 🙌
@@Rollshambo You‘re welcome, brother 🙌
Hi, sorry for taking the liberty but I would like to make a clarification regarding Italian heat treatments.
All the companies in Maniago have the heat treatments done by the same company that cuts the blade shapes, namely TTT (Trattamenti Termici Todesco). So it seems quite strange to me that there is this difference for every single company. I have personally tested the hardness of several Italian magnacut knives and they are all around 62 HRC. The test was performed with a hardness tester used in an aeronautical company, therefore a machine with periodic calibration. Another guy on TH-cam did tests on several knives from spyderco, benchmade, hogue, lionsteel, mkm, Protech, etc...
For Spyderco and Benchmade the result is 60 HRC because it is used in the SALT/water series and the target is to have a corrosion resistant steel. For Protech, Hogue, Lionsteel and Viper the result was 63 HRC.
I'm not writing this comment to defend Italian knives, but people often talk about "soft treats" without ever having put a blade under a Hardness tester.
What's interesting is that if they all have the same source doing the heat treats why do they advertise differently, or maybe this difference in advertising has to do with tests from each batch? Hard to say, what's not hard to say is that for whatever reason historical rockwell tests have shown Italian companies on the softer side of heat treats(that doesn't mean "bad" just "softer") also if I'm not mistaken I believe I know the channel you're referring to on the magnacut rockwell tests, if my assumption is correct and the one your referencing is the one who uses a leeb rebound style tester you can throw out those results since that tool is specifically not meant to be used on knives due to their lack of weight and density-ive confirmed this with Larrin Thomas directly as an industry expert (manufacturer of the rebound tester even states this) the last spyderco in magnacut that I saw tested with an indenter style hrc test in magnacut came back at 62.5, this is documented by the channel Cedric and Ada(of course this does not mean that is the target but it probably reflects the middle of the range they aim for like with most companies)- thanks for watching and for the great discussion piece🙌
Awesome video Roll
Glad you enjoyed it!
Man, I love chiming in on your videos but I have no opinion here. I've yet to experience magnacut. I've only handled S30v, S110v and nitro v
I stand by 63 to 64 hrc for the majority of folding knives is ideal, fixed blades 62hrc. Toughness does come from HRC but it more importantly comes from the geometry, if you want Toughness make it thicker if you want better cutting performance make it thinner. I don't see any reason what so ever to run magnacut under 63 for pocket knives. That way you are prioritizing edge retention, sharpness, ease of sharpening, and cutting performance first and foremost, Toughness comes after since it's not a fixed blade. It's important to the point we don't see blades snapping, or chipping out which I've yet to see magnacut do even at 65 hrc. So if we are seeing no issues with blades in magnacut at 65 while it still holds plenty of Toughness why would you want to prioritize the one thing that's not going to be an issue while taking away what does? It makes no sense to me. As far as the companies running it on the lower side for Toughness I'd love to see all these broken and chipped out blades they have tested at 63 to 64 because it doesn't exist. Considering all had proper heat treatment ofcourse. I always thought it goes without saying ofcourse high hrc Steele can be poorly heat treated. When talking hrc we are implying the heat treatment is done well
So this is a great discussion piece for multiple reasons..first is that at higher hrc magnacut loses corrosion resistance, that is going to be more important to some people than others based on the use case scenario(I live in Colorado, it's so dry here you could drop a piece of M4 in the water and it wouldn't rust🤣) but I'll bite on the toughness piece since this is underrated as a steel property, while I agree you can make a knife tougher by grinding it thicker doing so comes at the cost of geometry based edge retention, as we both know that thinner blade geometry = better edge retention that geometry holds up better with a steel like magnacut at 62...a good example of this is in the hrc/test results sheet Cedric and Ada have publically posted I'm the description of their videos..check The difference between the maxamet mule team and the magnacut mule team(this knife was tested at 62.5)- theoretically based on hrc and edge retention the maxamet knife should have wiped the floor with the magnacut knife...but it didnt..that's because the extra toughness magnacut has over maxamet allowed for better edge stability in a prolonged cut test...and that's a good comparison to look at because they're the same knife, same angle, different steel but it showcases the importance of toughness vs pure hardness/wear resistance..thanks for the convo Jerad!
Personally I will always want the higher hrc for a folding knife for the simple fact that it is a folding knife so I would much rather have great edge retention because no matter what steel it is if you are using your pocket knife as it was intended then it will have more than enough toughness to handle anything you do with it so I want the edge retention and if you are worried about breaking your blade then most likely you are doing something that a folding knife wasn't meant to do and need to be using a fixed blade or a completely different tool all together.
I don't think I've heard any serious knife people say magnacut actually sucks I just hear they are magnacutted out kinda like m390 there putting it on everything witch is cool but never heard it sucks of course if the HRC is in a optimal range. Dr. Thomas explains your point, your thumb nail is a lil misleading. We know it doesn't suck it's awesome 👍
Thanks for watching! My thumbnail may make more sense if you go through the comment section of my last magnacut video, I don't think a majority of people believe magnacut sucks but there are plenty of people who will state that it's just a hype steel and not at all that good, my thumbnail mentions the sweet spot for magnacut which I spend the majority of the video discussing, definitely didn't mean to mislead anyone but even if you had that impression I hope you enjoyed the content regardless🍻
I would prefer correct treated min 62 in a folder and at least 61 in a fixie
this was news like four years ago
Seems like Chinese companies such as Reate and Bestech are hitting 62-64 HRC lately as well
They've been reporting that target for sure, I havent seen any indented style rockwell tests on them yet but I'm keeping an eye out🍻
62-64
62-63
Yo word on these edc streets is you’re taking off the hat at 10k subs 🤔… is this true 😂
Don't tempt me...I'll do it!