Not being an owner but a lover of the Defender and a "knower" of nothing to do with "off-roading" I enjoyed this immensely. I loved the fact that the reviewer, an expert in his own right is not a know-it-all and does ask for help where he feels he might not do justice to the review. In terms of balance I felt it was quite fair e.g. leaving out the Jeep's more advance suspension features to better approximate and even out the comparison to that of the older Defender. Lastly, I find it fascinating that at changeover to the owner drivers that one can pick up that they prefer brute force over patient thought out, line-picking negotiation over terrain. Good work! PS: I don't think this review was to convince anyone that one religion is better that the other. No one is being converted here, relax guys ;)
Their designs are also built to suit specific tasks. We don't do much overland driving here in the US, and those who do use off road trailers to pull behind the Jeeps. Likewise you wouldn't normally use a Land Rover where we drive our Jeeps either. Most of our off road experiences are in wooded areas or tight mountain trails. The Land Rovers are at home in the deserts where most of them play. Great comparison though, not biased like most videos.
Brendan James Landrovers are not built for the desert mate. They are built to do it all, same as a Landcruiser. Have a look at the Landrover training course in the UK
@@Crashryding Land rovers would not be able to follow a rubicon rock crawling. There are no land rovers or range rovers in the king of the hammers competition for example...
+4xOverland i have a G also, and a that price point i think a comparison becomes a bit tenuous. besides, the articulation in a G is terrible. in a devious way, i think you should compare the G v. defender with the lockers off, since its more apples to apples in the overland/payload arena. ive always said the defender was much better at doing everything but carrying me.
+4xOverland The current Land Cruiser V8 against the Mercedes G, or what else.. I was out (last year) with a guy having a current V8 Land Cruiser - wow this car delivers - wolf in sheep dress we would say. (Being Land Rover addicted, but looking over the soup plate)
@@healthyamerican because most wranglers are not mall crawlers? Common... Both veicules are great Jeep nuts and landies nuts are quite annoying Its like only their veicule is good and all the rest its not worth it.
BongRasta No offense but, it's obvious you've never owned one. I was the same way at 19 yrs old when I bought my first vehicle- a 1978 IH Scout ll.. I was the baddest mutha on the planet with that truck. Now 40 yrs later and I've got that same feeling with my Jeep. It's just passion. You heard the man at the beginning , its like a religion. When you buy a vehicle you love it becomes your life's reason
I actually really enjoyed the review. I think it was a fair comparison. I actually really like Laddies. Being from North America I will always own a Jeep, and here is the reason. I actually owned a Land Rover here in North America, The sticker price on one of land rovers new or used is most of the time double to triple the price of a Jeep. The price of parts maintenance and aftermarket parts are few and far between, expensive to the point of not being worth it, I lived it. Here in Canada the Jeep market is very accessible. It is literally the Mr. Potato Head of off road vehicles for North America. I could build an insane Overland vehicle that would destroy a Landy bare stock for its price here. And if it breaks I can get it repaired much easier and much, much cheaper. On the other hand if I lived somewhere like the UK or AUS I would most likely own a Landy or Toyota as the availability, parts and repair costs are almost flipped to my above analogy. I think that would have been worth mentioning in the video. A good 4x4 vehicle can be very dependant of where you live. Cheers and Thanks for the review.
True! Land Rover parts are (as far as I know the prices) the cheapest of all cars here if you order from the UK. If you buy i.e. from BMW the Land Rover part prices are on the level of Porsche!
4 years late but thats the most intelligent response ive heard to this debate. Im in the uk. LR are cheap and parts are so easily available. We don’t see jeeps. Jeep parts would be harder to find and more expensive.
Andrew, that was a fantastic comparison and review of the two vehicles. I appreciate that you left out bias and let the comparable vehicle features do the talking. Your overlay shots with the turning radius and axle droop were both simple and powerful with their visuals. Well done! I also want to thank you for the driving skill videos you've produced. They've made a big difference in my driving maturity (and my Jeep's undercarriage thanks you). After years of rock crawling I'm just now venturing into overlanding and your TH-cam channel has been a great wealth of information.
I have had the luck in life to own simultaneously both a 1997 110 and 2010 Jeep Jk Rubicon unlimited. The jeep was bought from the dealer, where the 110 was purchased used and in dire needs for maintenance. The first thing set these vehicles apart was that I found the 110 was like a tractor trying to be a car, while the Jeep was a car trying to be a tractor. Road manners for the jeep were far greater than the 110 on the paved roads, yet the 110 was superior on the offroad. The Utilitarian aspect of the 110 was very appealing for my uses and needs in a four wheel drive vehicle. My needs are simple, my occasional tasks are to get water with my 3/4 ton M 101a1 military trailer. My total payload including trailer is around 3000 lbs. At times I use the set up to harvest firewood in very remote areas. This is not work for a jeep at all. The Jeep would whine while towing my load of water. It actually sounded like it was out of oil as I revved the engine while under tow. The valves just rattled very loudly. Obviously the 110 never showed any weakness in the same circumstances. The 110 that I have has an axle equivalent to Dana 60, where the Jeep has a Dana 44. I eventually installed 33`s on my Jeep with a 2 inch Old Man Emu suspension kit. That turn out to be potentially not good for my C knuckles on the axle, as their design started to bend. My use was not very extreme. I found this to be a very concerning point for me to except seeing as the Rubicon was revered to be the toughest model in the Jeep line up. The overall build quality of the Jeep seemed to be somewhat junk as time went by. The 110 seemed to be much more solid. Less interior creeking noises. Jeeps used to be revered as easy vehicles to work on. I have found that 110 is way easier and cheaper for the diy mechanic. First hand impressions for some will find greater value with the Rubicon over the 110. In the long run, the 110 with a 300 tdi engine has proven to be the greater vehicle for my needs. A true fantasy comparison for this 110 owner would be to have a Gwagen, 70`s series, Rubicon Unlimited with a diesel, and a 110 in the lane way to let things sort itself out.
Greetings from South Africa. Your Defender 110 will then be one of the late 399tdi models since it is a 1997 model. We, as a family, don't own one at the moment but I tend to a gree that the 300tdi is a fantastic DIY engine to work on when problems occur and need to be fixed. The double cab pickup versions of the Defender are my personal favourite as they gave the practicallity of a double cab pickup and I also like to believe they are unique and something different to the traditional station wagon models. I'm not really a td5 fan as it was the era when things were beginning to become more electronic but I do respect the fact that some people enjoy that engine. However, I would buy a Discovery 2 with that engine and a manual transmition mainly for long distance tar road driving and some gravel road driving but not for extreme off-roading as 4xoverland discovered. For off-roading in a Discovery I would take the Discovery 1 wit the 300tdi engine and manual transmition. I also like the 2.4l Pumer engines, although they are more electronically controlled compared to the 300tdi engines. These are my thoughts as a blind person, putting myself in a normal sighted person's shoes.
I don't understand why you exclude the Jeep's locking diffs from consideration just because the LR doesn't have them... It doesn't have Hill Descent Control either but you included that. Isn't the presence of lockers on the Jeep an advantage that should be considered?
It's a brit reviewing a US vehicle that's about to take the beloved defender for a run. The hill climb would have been done without a single slip of a wheel with both lockers on.
I have to agree And as far as saying this Jeep isn't stock those are 31" tires pretty darn standard and just BFG all terrains pretty standard indeed . Even sports come with 31" Wranglers (Arguably better than the bfg's ) The only real benefits of the rubicon are the lockers and the gear ratios (not sure if that specific model comes with the dana 44's or not most rubicons did) otherwise get a sport to compare. Most Slightly modified Jeeps would not spin on this course Unlocker swaybar Small lift 35" tires GG
+sf len maybe in other countries they come with those 31 all terrains ta ko's, but here in the states rubicons only come with the mud terrain, in a 32" tire. the sports come with a pretty much highway tire unless you option up.
+sf len maybe in other countries they come with those 31 all terrains ta ko's, but here in the states rubicons only come with the mud terrain, in a 32" tire. the sports come with a pretty much highway tire unless you option up.
I enjoyed that you said "this is my opinion, not science, so don't bother me about that". Your video is enjoyable because you are a person sharing your thoughts, we can read the details in a spreadsheet if needed. Here in the US, off roading is done for fun. Short trips done to challenge driver and machine. So the jeep has great approach and departure angles and not a lot of space. The jeep u compared is the longest one you can get and it has very little space compared to the Landy. Also the springs are designed for the flex and ride height for obstacles not heavy load. The Landy is far better for carrying gear and long overland travel. They sell so many diff versions of attachable rear shelves for the jeep, but that is not the same. In the end, great video and well done comparison. Makes me want to get the clutch fixed on my Pinz 710M and go off road.
There are some discussion as to my nationality as a result of the fact that viewers are accustomed to Brits loving Land Rovers, and Americans loving Jeeps, based purely on their nationality. I assume you think this is so here? Well, think again. I don't care! Really, I don't. BTW. My favourite 4WD is the G-Wagen 461 series and the Land Cruiser, which is what I drive now. And no, I'm not Japanese. Or German. As it happens, born in England to Australian and New Zealand Parents, lived most of my life in Africa, live now in Australia and one of my current favourite places to go overlanding is the USA. Get to know my work and you will understand.
Hmm. But all of that does not make you objective. The interior is "typical American." Every reviewer from the British empire. I just don't know... Nonetheless, liked and subscribed. Bc, you know, good video...
If you aren't going to use the Rubicons' differential locks then you aren't testing it's full capability and any vs comparison is null and void. Just because the Defender doesn't come with that feature that is standard on the Rubicon doesn't mean your must make them equal by handicapping the Rubi.... WHICH IS WHOLLY BIAS. Also listing the Defenders cons and shortcomings as "character" and endearing qualities unique to the Defender is complete hogwash and bias to it's core.... the same can be said of any vehicle. THUMBS DOWN
Does Jeeps have true Diff locks ! They have locking hubs but no lock in or lock out diffs . The Defender used to have both diffs locking in and out . That is why the Defender can go into places a jeep cant go . Plus the Defender has Boxed frame and Jeep dont . The Defender is vary stiff while the Jeep distorts in a twist .
Jeeps have fully boxed frames that are very strong. They have not used locking hubs for decades. The Rubicon model comes with selectable front and rear lockers stock. Were you high af when you typed that nonsense or are you just woefully misinformed? You typed six sentences and five of them are demonstrably false.
actually, the Jeep has been to places where a Defender has not. "The Jeep Wrangler has set the Guinness World Record for highest altitude attained by a four-wheeled vehicle after ferrying Matthias Jeschke and his Extrem Events adventure team up Chile's Ojos del Salado, the highest volcano on Earth. The trek from base camp to the world record height ran from March 7 to March 13, when the team's pair of Wrangler Rubicon Unlimiteds checked in at 6,646 meters, or 21,804 feet. " read for yourself please www.autoblog.com/2007/04/03/jeep-wrangler-gets-high-sets-record/
Great review, really enjoyed seeing these two off-road warriors. Just a note on the HDC on the JK Wrangler. Once activated, the speed can be adjusted up and down while driving simply by changing gears. 1st low - 1.5km/h 2nd low - 4km/h 3rd low - 6.5km/h 4th low - 9 km/h Drive12 km/h It’s a great system 👍
I found your channel a couple of days ago, and I am really glad I did! Your reviews and advice are really top notch, very balanced and based in reality. Thank you for the information.
"What single unique character makes their vehicle special to them?" Jeep: "It provides you a sense of being invincible. Everything is so well thought out and put together that driving it, no matter where you are or where you're going to is never an issue. You just use it and it goes." Land Rover: "Everywhere where you go and you stop, the guys always come and talk to you and swap stories out." I think that about sums it up.
I think it's worth saying that this is in this video at 37:20 for those who didn't make it that far. It says a lot in my opinion. Of course, in America, the players could easily be reversed. Park an overland Jeep and people gather.
@@1ode2joy They shouldn't have compared it to a Jeep JK which was a mass market appeal car with 1 million+ sold. They should have compared it to the holy grail of Jeeps, the 2004-2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (long Wheel Base) 2 door Rubicon which has the legendary 4.0L I6 Engine that literally can run reliably without engine oil. Also, every Jeep Wrangler ever made is a Convertible, and you can make it look like a Defender if you want with a Gr8tops Safari Hardtop. Not to mention parts are very cheap for the Jeep. A brand new Engine is only $2000.
@@chadingram6390 Jeep 4.0l i6 from the 1990's were notorious for having a faulty oil pump after 100k miles. There are numerous people on Jeep forums who ran their 4.0L with a broken oil pump for thousands of miles before they noticed. The 4.0l is a big engine with a robust block that is very understressed and overbuilt. It only outputs 190hp, only bad thing about it is that it runs hot and it overheats easily, which is quite annoying if you are in the bogs and constantly need to be on the gas to get out of sticky situations, but the radiator is pretty straightforward to change out and there are plenty of aftermarket solutions.
@@designexplainedllc346 Someone claiming to drive thousands of miles without oil pressure on an internet forum is a lot different from "literally can run reliably without engine oil"
Andrew S (4xOverland), just wanted to say thank you for such a lovely channel. I am very glad that I stumbled upon it on while doing research on Jeeps and trying to learn about mine. Its such a refreshing thing to see someone give thoughtful, unbiased commentary and also just have interesting things to say and show us in general. Thanks again.
Thank you for taking the time to put this together. I can imagine the setting, content, production took some time. I am looking forward to the Cruiser comparison. On a personal note, having seen Japanese, American and British 4x4 work on multiple continents (exploration geologist by profession) I would say that I don't have a clear winner that is always my "go to' vehicle. This relates to support (parts), cost and a multitude of little factors. Here in Australia the Criuser rules supreme and is hard to beat, yet earlier this year I was in Gabon and good old, ex-UK Army Landrovers driven by the drilling company were the best vehicles on site in the rainy season. On a side note about track though, several years ago one fo the drilling companies put people into F250's in the bush rather than putting three big blokes across the front seat of a HJ Cruiser ute. Great vehciles for getting from Perth to the field site (1000km drive) but no good once they were there. Why? it was not build quality, handling etc but the wider track. So much wider that you always had one wheel well off the 'beaten track' and they picked up stake after stake and had to change tyres continuously. This came to mind when I heard you discussing track. To each there own and I can put my hand up to personally owning multiple variatiosn of Amercian, British and japanese 4x4's but i will leave you guessing as to which one it is right now. All the best Adrian Byass
I'm a Rubicon owner but I want to point out we are not comparing apples to apples when money is the bottom line, (it always is.) The Land Rover is more expensive. However, you hit the nail on the head with the storage space and towing capacity because the Rubicon can not compete at all. I will point out that over-land "touring" or traveling in the Jeep is considerably better with the top and doors off. That makes it worth the difference! :D
I know a lot of students in high school who drove Wranglers and their reliability is TERRIBLE. It was normal to be leaving school once every 8-10 days and I'd see a poor sap with his Jeep's hood open in the rain, trying to get it to start.
Probably some sort of custom engineering gone wrong. The i6 last a long time with no issues. The newer models with the 3.6 is really good too. The 3.8 model was horrible and would hydro-lock (from what I understand.)
Roderick Brehm Ha ha ha! You're probably at least 50% right since a lot of those had the living crap modified out of them. I'm guessing they did one or two mods, then got addicted and kept going until they screwed up! I used to own a MINI Cooper but was too scared to mod it because it was goddamn complicated. The windows had a mind of their own and kept rolling down without warning every month or two!
Not sure which wranglers you're talking about... but the majority of high school students I doubt are able to afford something newer than a TJ.. and a YJ or TJ is a pretty damn reliable platform, those inline 6 4.2s and 4.0s are pretty much bullet proof. I know of one at 770k+ miles and it's still going strong on the original engine... My first one had 258k, my current one is barely broken in at 170k...
in terms of price, your location plays a big role. Here in the UK defenders are not the expensive but jeep rubicons are, but i'm sure in america it's the other around.
The reason why I did not mention reliability is that it is not something that can be measured. And, as importantly, reliability means different things to different people. So I felt that mentioning it in the revue is pointless.
+4xOverland AND: fix a Defender issue and fix Jeep issue, that may will become a different challenge somewhere out there - so really 'reliability' is very difficult to put in numbers.
+Gold Rush Reliability is entirely a user experience, and cannot be measured, and is never measured, because there is no measurement that can be attributed to it.
+Gold Rush What you are suggesting is possible in theory, but impossible in practice. How does one drive two vehicles identically? Impossible in this universe. And what is the measurement of reliability? There is none. How often does it break down? Define break down. How much preventative maintenance is needed? What is the measure of preventative maintenance? How does one differentiate preventative maintenance with repairing a component? Impossible.
+4xOverland My wife keeps on telling me. . . don't engage if you disagree with YT comments! But I am trying to learn something. But your response is typical of most. Instead of responding with facts, you attack my knowledge and insult me simply because I disagree with you.
I've been driving a Rubicon for two years now and I'll be getting a 2015 Defender in a week thanks to you Andrew. I am certainly proud being able to own two legendary icons.
Really fantastic video. First time EVER commenting and I love these two vehicles and feel you gave a very accurate and fair comparison. Good job and thanks!!
What a beautiful episode! This gentleman looks like he gave it his all :) thank you, Sir. Excellently done! And the off-road teacher gentleman, so calm and peaceful. I could probably accept anything he might teach me simply cuz he is so calm n composed and regal like :) You did however limit the jeep by not allowing its use of its sway bar disconnect option or the front and rear differential lock feature (I forgot which one u did not allow) for the sake of fair game :) Altogether, a beautiful watch this video was. Thank you, gentlemen! Johny
Amazing brilliant video. These guys are great when it comes to offroading. They aren't trying to make you laugh or annoy you with personal bs. They are truly thorough unbiased and objective. I enjoyed the Jeep WK Grand Cherokee review many years ago and enjoyed this one even more. Excellent work!
If you are going to showcase the hill descent feature of the Rubicon, you need to do the same for the front and rear axle locking differentials, it really makes the gap in off-roading performance that much greater. I'd expect the Rubicon to tackle that obstacle on first try with no slipping.
You're absolutely correct! Now they could get a new Defender against that Rubicon and Rubicon would still be better I've seen it done in real life. Also he said the defendant had better will travel that's not true he probably didn't disconnect the sway bars on the Jeep with the electronic option. Have you seen the later video or he takes a black Rubicon to the sand dunes and you finally admits it's the best off road vehicle in the world
The Jeep is 4x4 weapon while the Defender is a 4x4 overland tool, the former a lifestyle offroading toy while the latter a workhorse recreational camping tool. Both have ups and downs.
I have never driven off road nor have I owned a 4x4 though I am interested. However, your channel is absolutely riveting. I don't know how I found you but when I did I just keep watching your vids one after the other. You must be doing something right! Many thanks Andrew from an urban dodgem car driver in England.
Thanks fella's this fairest comparison demo I have seen in a long time, I own a Jeep JK unlimited 2010 Diesel 2.8 turbo and I love the thing, rattles and all,.so thanks again.
The comparison I've been waiting for - well done Andrew! My questions: 1. You made no reference to the sway bar disconnect of the Rubicon. Was this activated during your test? 2. The Rubicon's transfer case has an extra-low 4:1 ratio. You commented that the speed going down-hill (with descent control on) was perfect. Was this due to the low gearing or the electronic descent control?
I thought it was a good comparison, and it is a good point about the payload and range. However, the fact that the Jeep had far better off road abilities, even when intentionally crippled, is telling indeed. Your fuel range is zero when you are stuck ;)
@@jonbertocchi173 only to a certain extent. I love the humvee, it's my dream truck. But they are massive, to the point of impracticality. Too big for small trails. And they are very difficult to modify. You definitely need lots of expertise to upgrade a humvee. Jeeps are comparatively easy to upgrade
Enjoyed your video! I own a jeep and watching videos like this is awesome for me to see where people are wheeling and the common love by 4x4 enthusiasts for the outdoors across the world.
You missed one big thing about the hand straps in the rear. These are safety devices. If you hang on to something solid and roll the vehicle, your hand is crushed. If you are hanging on to a swingy strap, it just moves around and saves your hand from getting crushed. The Jeep is well thought out.
Great video, as an old school 4x4er I have never put much on "electronic" controls like the downhill assist. I now own a 2015 Jeep Wrangler Willies, took it up a track here in Colorado called Red Cone Pass; its has a decent from 12,800 ft that is unbelievable (google it). anyways, i put on the down hill assist thinking it wouldn't help, but why not, and wow. The jeep walked down the hill like it was walking down a country lane.
and meanwhile you're sitting there 1/32nds of an inch off the brake pedal biting your nails wondering if it knows what it's doing... Yep, I was doing the same thing, lol :D
Very honest and fair review. Loved it! And yes, would love to see one using all the vehicle capabilities (lockers). Thank you for putting this together!
My choice is Wrangler Rubi. Yes, I'm also biased toward "American stuff". Can't wait to get my Rubi. Test drove one recently, and I thought it was a great drive on the road.
i think, this episode is very very good.. in fact, it tackles in depth areas more than just simply the vehicles itself.. i thank you for that.. great effort man..! ;)
Nicely done, sir. I own a lifted Rubicon but love others like the Defender and older Land Cruisers. Love seeing these videos..will subscribe to your channel. Thanks!
I love only one (JEEP) but respect and enjoy the heritage of the Defender. The Jeep is part of us Colonist ;) and it's part of the family when your an owner.
This is an excellent review of two outstanding off-road vehicles. Well done. I like that you knew not to compare apples to oranges and reduced any bias. Thanks!
Great video. I would have liked to see the Jeep's axle diff locks in action, just to see how big a difference they make, even though the Defender doesn't have them.
I love my Jeep for it's flexibility...not only the range of travel for the front and rear axles...but for the front and rear lockers... I get to choose if I wan't front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, all wheel drive or limited slip, everyday stuff....either way, I get to decide.
pcosta816 You know, you are right. I can lock the front but the rear stays limited slip, so it's not really front wheel drive...but most of the traction comes from then front in that case.
This is probably the best comparison I have ever seen between the two, and i pretty much agree completely with your conclusions. I passionately love both vehicles so thank you for the great an honest review.
I discover this video even if it's not all new... Great video! Nice to see fair comparisons in an automobile channel. It's difficult to do and maybe more for off-road vehicles but it's very well. Most of TH-camrs and auto journalists compare cars that should not be, don't understand how to do it, don't understand enough the mechanic to even try a good comparison and make bad conclusions. I like and follow. Thank you.
Very good review. I own a modified Unlimited Rubicon. Do a lot of rock climbing with it. Always wondered why I saw the Land Rovers and never Jeeps in the safari and expedition videos. Now I know. I must add that with the rear seats folded down and externally - mounted fuel tanks, the Jeep might be able to match the LR in range and capacity. Where the LR must follow a trail, the slightly modified Jeep can blaze its own trails and go where most other 4x4's can't.
The big thing for me is that the 110 is not a 110 i own one that is an old military spec and it has dif lock but no back seats. 2 rows of bench seats instead.
I currently have a 2 door Jeep JK and it is my 4th Jeep and IMO the biggest weakness is the lack of load capacity and towing ability. That said it is excellent in just about every other area.
Toyota still makes a whole line of offroad vehicles that havent changed.. they just dont offer them in the states because barely any market for them.. the troopy.. the classic hilux trucks etc.. all still for sale world wide. Plus they offer base model and diesel Land cruisers that will rival anything by Jeep or Land Rover
I simply love the iconic Defender, it's my dream SUV! Regardless of all the old disadvantages, this car gives us the feeling that it is full of itself. The style, the reliability, the lack of comfort, everything is part of its character.
Great video, professionally thought through and executed! A pleasure to watch and to listen to. You can't beat real world experience, and I say that as a relative youngster. Thank you.
They are both great! However I think Land Rover failed in keeping the defender up with the times and hence why there is no more defender. I was honestly thinking about swapping my JK diesel for a defender mid last year. Went to the LR dealership and was treated very poorly there by the sales people. I had to demand their assistance and a test drive after waiting 45 mins circling a defender with nobody coming to see me. It was then that i truely realised how dated and poor the interior is compared to the Jeep JK. Very cramped to the point where the only way I could steer was with the window open so my elbow could protrude out. And power wise the Defender couldnt touch the wrangler's VM motori. It felt slow, sluggish and truck like compared to my JK. Still love the defender but having the Jeep before hand really put me off and thats when i decided to keep the jeep instead of the swap. The jeep is also much safer in the event of a collision. Just my 2 cents and I know not everybody will agree with me but thats the awesome nature of being human, We are all different with different likes/dislikes. Awesome Videos. I really enjoy them!
You can buy all that stuff for defenders too, probably cheaper and undoubtably in more places throughout the world.. Not only that, but with the £10,000 saved by going for a defender 90 over the rubicon (retail cost uk) you could buy axle lockers, multiple sets of tyres, a winch or two, or even a van full of after market goodies if you so desired. The rubicon would then be left well behind off road for the same money. Jkandl actually hit the nail on the head. The actual difference is refinement, and that is personal preference. Personally i loved having the ol elbow out of the window. I love the air conditioning even more, two fecking flaps with levers!!!! That's great. No carpet? Good, i can clean it out with a hose pipe. Uncomfortable seats, love em, i'm a bit odd like that. The defender has it's place: farms, expeditions, military, true off roading and passionate enthusiasts.. It's near perfection for such markets... Land Rover don't really target the general public with defenders for good reason, they don't need to. They have other 4x4's targeted at normal folk who want comforts, plus, the defender pretty much dominates the global market for it's particular class of vehicle.. If someone wanted a refined land rover they sell them. The Freelander, Discovery and Range Rover. Various styles and engine sizes available. In other words, people need to stop telling themselves they want a utility vehicle when really they want an SUV. Maybe that way people will stop being disappointed with the trim of a utility 4x4 vehicle. It's not a friggin land cruiser :P They should stay basic and unrefined.. I'll just give you a quick example of why changing some of the things you mentioned would actually be bad for the defenders intended use and market. - More ellbow room would require a wider cab. A defender is very well known for getting through narrow spaces (dense woodland). Is it worth losing that for elbow room? Not on a utility off road truck, most true off road has obstructions, it doesn't matter how much elbow room your car has if you have to walk . - Refinements need cleaning. Defenders carry dead livestock, feeds, mud, all sorts. Add refinements and you can't hose it down. In fact it would probably be in a terrible state within weeks of hard use. - Refinements break. The less to break the better for it's intended use. - A bigger engine isn't really needed. The 200/300 tdi and td5 have enough power to get through deep mud and snow, but not so much to apply too much force on slippery technical sections. They also tow well. Real world off roading isn't mud baths and v8 engines, it's tight, technical and normally slippery sections at a slow pace. Some off roaders actually fit lower powered engines without turbo's by choice.
@@queef3057 you must really not like the new Defender the way you are defending how great the old one is for being so under-equipped and every way the new one is so over equipped now hahaha but that's how Brits are at they are way underdone or way overdone they don't find a middle line everything they do seems overdone or underdone
@@ronaldrrootiii6040 lol. Under equipped. It's a utility vehicle it's not about who has the best AC and heated seats. Original defender isn't designed as an suv, it's a work vehicle. Sorry to break it to you but axles out perform modern air suspension / tc setups. No serious off roader would disagree. Maybe those who call a muddy track off road would agree with you. I'll accept I'm wrong when I see them doing the same work a defender has been doing for decades. The newer discoveries however have already done a real good job of showing users they are not as capable as previous generations. Sure Jeremy Clarkson took one up a hill, but that's nothing compared to what an early axle driven disco can do. To get a modern style defender or disco to do the same work requires some seriously expensive upgrades. It's been seen time and time again with modern LR getting bellied out in terrain a standard axle driven LR wouldn't. They simply don't deliver fully on their promise. Not saying I don't like them at all, just I don't see them as the same thing. They are suv now, not utility work vehicles. And that comes at price in cost and capability. I'm sure they make great cars for doctors but you simply ain't seeing them on farms in high numbers and it is for good reason. It's probably worth noting that I live in Cumbria UK, a place where farming is a central factor in the landscape and terrain is simply put, pretty damn bad. It's a very wet, muddy and rocky area, it's called the lake District for good reason. I've used both modern and old style 4x4, and have experienced the shortfalls of both in real world use. I'll say this: it's only the modern ones that I've had to have recovered. They tend to belly out more readily, and as you may or may not know, that can be a real pig to recover as the flat belly creates a lot of suction. Not as bad on the old defender, actually I've not once been truly stuck in one. There are other advantages too that are very well established. Such as TC based 4x4 systems being reactive and only kicking in after traction is lost. Opposed to an axle driven vehicle where you can lock the drivetrain independently of electronically controlled systems, when you want it. Hands down the best I've used, as in capability not features, late model 300tdi. Has the best of both worlds. Axle driven, with TC. It's doesn't rely on the TC. I paid £10.5 k for a low mileage model on a galvanised chassis. It'll outlive the new defenders your seeing on the roads now, more capable, fraction of the price. But I use them as work vehicles not family cars. Prices for old defenders are inflated overseas, maybe something you should consider. I know in the US they pay up to 80k dollars, and that's not a good buy I would agree. Very different vehicles the old and new. I guarantee you'll not see the modern versions being held onto like the older ones, for good reason. Im certain if you go to any serious 4x4 forum and ask these questions you'll see I'm correct: Which is better for off road use: axle driven or modern TC based systems (The answer is axle driven) Which is better for off road use: chassis or monocoque (The answer is chassis)
I thought this was a great review, though I'd have liked to see more testing, but I thought your comparison was spot on and for anyone mentioning any bias because you're british... You were in favour of the american vehicle in terms of performance, which is totally against the grain and I think proves in this situation you were being true and honest.
Both great vehicles, both LEGENDARY. Both can get the job done with unique strengths and weaknesses. A bit of a let down the Jeep had to be handicapped without the use of its lockers, to make it fair to the Rover. Strictly from an offroad perspective . . . .the Jeep has no equal, easily king of the mountain. Even without the lockers.
That was the most boring off-road trip ever, were the wrangler's sway bars even disconnected? didn't matter I guess no articulation was needed. Loved the part of keeping the lockers off to keep it fair, its not fair at all, wrangler wins!
+flybyav8tor Absolutely right. He left a major benefit to the jeep disabled because the LR didn't have it?! I don't think I'd be doing that in the field so don't do it in a field test.
We who like 4x4's, the more the vehicle is awkward and unhappy on the road the more we enjoy it. We just like to smerk at the idea of a vehicle with comfort and style as the main goal instead of one with getting things done as its purpose. This is not unique to serious 4x4 owners, think low riders or street racers, but these 2 off roaders are great examples of vehicles that gladly say "we don't care" to the creature comforts of most vehicles.
Interesting, but a poor comparison. You should have used the Jeep Wrangler Sport. It's closer in features. The Rubicon has auto sway bar disconnects and and front and rear lockers standard. Not using them is like sending a fighter into the ring with one hand tied behind his back.
@@healthyamerican It did, but the point of comparison is to see the difference, not just a winner. If you race a corvette and a golf, you don't use 3/4 throttle in the vette because it wins anyway....
it annoys me that you excluded the Rubicon's lockers, as they wouldn't be in the defender, but at the same time you said you liked the defender better because it had more space, which the wrangler didn't have. if you are going to include individual features, allow both to use what is unique to them. Just saying
Great comparison. I find it a little unfair (bias aside) that the lockers were left out, as you were comparing vehicle to vehicle, not features to features. Not that it really matters because the Jeep won the off road portion anyway, but that small hill climb would have been child's play for any vehicle locked at both ends. As for the gvwr of the jeep, I wouldn't worry about that because if you try to stuff 5 adults in a wrangler, your trip will self destruct before you make it through that first full tank of fuel.
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Not being an owner but a lover of the Defender and a "knower" of nothing to do with "off-roading" I enjoyed this immensely.
I loved the fact that the reviewer, an expert in his own right is not a know-it-all and does ask for help where he feels he might not do justice to the review. In terms of balance I felt it was quite fair e.g. leaving out the Jeep's more advance suspension features to better approximate and even out the comparison to that of the older Defender. Lastly, I find it fascinating that at changeover to the owner drivers that one can pick up that they prefer brute force over patient thought out, line-picking negotiation over terrain.
Good work!
PS: I don't think this review was to convince anyone that one religion is better that the other. No one is being converted here, relax guys ;)
Thank you Kholo
Their designs are also built to suit specific tasks. We don't do much overland driving here in the US, and those who do use off road trailers to pull behind the Jeeps. Likewise you wouldn't normally use a Land Rover where we drive our Jeeps either. Most of our off road experiences are in wooded areas or tight mountain trails. The Land Rovers are at home in the deserts where most of them play. Great comparison though, not biased like most videos.
Brendan James Landrovers are not built for the desert mate. They are built to do it all, same as a Landcruiser. Have a look at the Landrover training course in the UK
!
@@Crashryding Land rovers would not be able to follow a rubicon rock crawling. There are no land rovers or range rovers in the king of the hammers competition for example...
I think my next head-on-head test review should be Land Cruiser 76 wagon GLX with lockers, and the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon - with lockers.
+4xOverland or a standard gwagon professional ?
+Tom Solemé Yes. That would be very interesting. But not sure If I can get my hands on one.
+4xOverland i have a G also, and a that price point i think a comparison becomes a bit tenuous. besides, the articulation in a G is terrible. in a devious way, i think you should compare the G v. defender with the lockers off, since its more apples to apples in the overland/payload arena. ive always said the defender was much better at doing everything but carrying me.
+4xOverland
The current Land Cruiser V8 against the Mercedes G, or what else.. I was out (last year) with a guy having a current V8 Land Cruiser - wow this car delivers - wolf in sheep dress we would say. (Being Land Rover addicted, but looking over the soup plate)
Where in South africa was this filmed? or Souther africa?
To me their is no winner or loser! Both are winners to me👍 love them both.
the only loser will be the new defender which we all know will be a city defender and not an overlander
Touche'.
@@healthyamerican because most wranglers are not mall crawlers? Common...
Both veicules are great
Jeep nuts and landies nuts are quite annoying
Its like only their veicule is good and all the rest its not worth it.
I agree. I couldn’t pick a favourite
BongRasta No offense but, it's obvious you've never owned one.
I was the same way at 19 yrs old when I bought my first vehicle- a 1978 IH Scout ll.. I was the baddest mutha on the planet with that truck.
Now 40 yrs later and I've got that same feeling with my Jeep.
It's just passion. You heard the man at the beginning , its like a religion. When you buy a vehicle you love it becomes your life's reason
I actually really enjoyed the review. I think it was a fair comparison. I actually really like Laddies. Being from North America I will always own a Jeep, and here is the reason. I actually owned a Land Rover here in North America, The sticker price on one of land rovers new or used is most of the time double to triple the price of a Jeep. The price of parts maintenance and aftermarket parts are few and far between, expensive to the point of not being worth it, I lived it.
Here in Canada the Jeep market is very accessible. It is literally the Mr. Potato Head of off road vehicles for North America. I could build an insane Overland vehicle that would destroy a Landy bare stock for its price here. And if it breaks I can get it repaired much easier and much, much cheaper.
On the other hand if I lived somewhere like the UK or AUS I would most likely own a Landy or Toyota as the availability, parts and repair costs are almost flipped to my above analogy. I think that would have been worth mentioning in the video. A good 4x4 vehicle can be very dependant of where you live.
Cheers and Thanks for the review.
Berserker Television
True! Land Rover parts are (as far as I know the prices) the cheapest of all cars here if you order from the UK.
If you buy i.e. from BMW the Land Rover part prices are on the level of Porsche!
I'm from the UK and would like a Jeep
I approve this message as a. Fellow canadien
4 years late but thats the most intelligent response ive heard to this debate. Im in the uk. LR are cheap and parts are so easily available. We don’t see jeeps. Jeep parts would be harder to find and more expensive.
Same tires at same pressures. Wow the first channel that does vehicle comparisons correctly in any meaningful way.
As an American, I feel you were very fair. No one is significantly better than the other. Both are legendary and have such a loyal following.
Both were legends in the past
... but it is all over now.
Pavle Balenovic how dare you
Land rover = unreliability
@@SwissArmySteve. Chrysler = terrible transmissions + life span.
@@dfcvda My Jeep = Mercedes engine + transmission = reliability
Andrew, that was a fantastic comparison and review of the two vehicles. I appreciate that you left out bias and let the comparable vehicle features do the talking. Your overlay shots with the turning radius and axle droop were both simple and powerful with their visuals. Well done! I also want to thank you for the driving skill videos you've produced. They've made a big difference in my driving maturity (and my Jeep's undercarriage thanks you). After years of rock crawling I'm just now venturing into overlanding and your TH-cam channel has been a great wealth of information.
I have had the luck in life to own simultaneously both a 1997 110 and 2010 Jeep Jk Rubicon unlimited. The jeep was bought from the dealer, where the 110 was purchased used and in dire needs for maintenance. The first thing set these vehicles apart was that I found the 110 was like a tractor trying to be a car, while the Jeep was a car trying to be a tractor. Road manners for the jeep were far greater than the 110 on the paved roads, yet the 110 was superior on the offroad. The Utilitarian aspect of the 110 was very appealing for my uses and needs in a four wheel drive vehicle. My needs are simple, my occasional tasks are to get water with my 3/4 ton M 101a1 military trailer. My total payload including trailer is around 3000 lbs. At times I use the set up to harvest firewood in very remote areas. This is not work for a jeep at all. The Jeep would whine while towing my load of water. It actually sounded like it was out of oil as I revved the engine while under tow. The valves just rattled very loudly. Obviously the 110 never showed any weakness in the same circumstances. The 110 that I have has an axle equivalent to Dana 60, where the Jeep has a Dana 44. I eventually installed 33`s on my Jeep with a 2 inch Old Man Emu suspension kit. That turn out to be potentially not good for my C knuckles on the axle, as their design started to bend. My use was not very extreme. I found this to be a very concerning point for me to except seeing as the Rubicon was revered to be the toughest model in the Jeep line up. The overall build quality of the Jeep seemed to be somewhat junk as time went by. The 110 seemed to be much more solid. Less interior creeking noises. Jeeps used to be revered as easy vehicles to work on. I have found that 110 is way easier and cheaper for the diy mechanic. First hand impressions for some will find greater value with the Rubicon over the 110. In the long run, the 110 with a 300 tdi engine has proven to be the greater vehicle for my needs. A true fantasy comparison for this 110 owner would be to have a Gwagen, 70`s series, Rubicon Unlimited with a diesel, and a 110 in the lane way to let things sort itself out.
Greetings from South Africa. Your Defender 110 will then be one of the late 399tdi models since it is a 1997 model. We, as a family, don't own one at the moment but I tend to a gree that the 300tdi is a fantastic DIY engine to work on when problems occur and need to be fixed. The double cab pickup versions of the Defender are my personal favourite as they gave the practicallity of a double cab pickup and I also like to believe they are unique and something different to the traditional station wagon models. I'm not really a td5 fan as it was the era when things were beginning to become more electronic but I do respect the fact that some people enjoy that engine. However, I would buy a Discovery 2 with that engine and a manual transmition mainly for long distance tar road driving and some gravel road driving but not for extreme off-roading as 4xoverland discovered. For off-roading in a Discovery I would take the Discovery 1 wit the 300tdi engine and manual transmition. I also like the 2.4l Pumer engines, although they are more electronically controlled compared to the 300tdi engines. These are my thoughts as a blind person, putting myself in a normal sighted person's shoes.
I don't understand why you exclude the Jeep's locking diffs from consideration just because the LR doesn't have them... It doesn't have Hill Descent Control either but you included that. Isn't the presence of lockers on the Jeep an advantage that should be considered?
It's a brit reviewing a US vehicle that's about to take the beloved defender for a run. The hill climb would have been done without a single slip of a wheel with both lockers on.
+dre04mach he's South African.
I have to agree
And as far as saying this Jeep isn't stock those are 31" tires pretty darn standard and just BFG all terrains pretty standard indeed .
Even sports come with 31" Wranglers (Arguably better than the bfg's )
The only real benefits of the rubicon are the lockers and the gear ratios (not sure if that specific model comes with the dana 44's or not most rubicons did)
otherwise get a sport to compare.
Most Slightly modified Jeeps would not spin on this course
Unlocker swaybar
Small lift
35" tires
GG
+sf len maybe in other countries they come with those 31 all terrains ta ko's, but here in the states rubicons only come with the mud terrain, in a 32" tire. the sports come with a pretty much highway tire unless you option up.
+sf len maybe in other countries they come with those 31 all terrains ta ko's, but here in the states rubicons only come with the mud terrain, in a 32" tire. the sports come with a pretty much highway tire unless you option up.
I enjoyed that you said "this is my opinion, not science, so don't bother me about that". Your video is enjoyable because you are a person sharing your thoughts, we can read the details in a spreadsheet if needed.
Here in the US, off roading is done for fun. Short trips done to challenge driver and machine. So the jeep has great approach and departure angles and not a lot of space. The jeep u compared is the longest one you can get and it has very little space compared to the Landy. Also the springs are designed for the flex and ride height for obstacles not heavy load. The Landy is far better for carrying gear and long overland travel. They sell so many diff versions of attachable rear shelves for the jeep, but that is not the same. In the end, great video and well done comparison. Makes me want to get the clutch fixed on my Pinz 710M and go off road.
There are some discussion as to my nationality as a result of the fact that viewers are accustomed to Brits loving Land Rovers, and Americans loving Jeeps, based purely on their nationality. I assume you think this is so here? Well, think again. I don't care! Really, I don't. BTW. My favourite 4WD is the G-Wagen 461 series and the Land Cruiser, which is what I drive now. And no, I'm not Japanese. Or German. As it happens, born in England to Australian and New Zealand Parents, lived most of my life in Africa, live now in Australia and one of my current favourite places to go overlanding is the USA. Get to know my work and you will understand.
Hmm. But all of that does not make you objective. The interior is "typical American." Every reviewer from the British empire. I just don't know... Nonetheless, liked and subscribed. Bc, you know, good video...
If you aren't going to use the Rubicons' differential locks then you aren't testing it's full capability and any vs comparison is null and void. Just because the Defender doesn't come with that feature that is standard on the Rubicon doesn't mean your must make them equal by handicapping the Rubi.... WHICH IS WHOLLY BIAS. Also listing the Defenders cons and shortcomings as "character" and endearing qualities unique to the Defender is complete hogwash and bias to it's core.... the same can be said of any vehicle. THUMBS DOWN
Does Jeeps have true Diff locks ! They have locking hubs but no lock in or lock out diffs . The Defender used to have both diffs locking in and out . That is why the Defender can go into places a jeep cant go . Plus the Defender has Boxed frame and Jeep dont . The Defender is vary stiff while the Jeep distorts in a twist .
Jeeps have fully boxed frames that are very strong. They have not used locking hubs for decades. The Rubicon model comes with selectable front and rear lockers stock.
Were you high af when you typed that nonsense or are you just woefully misinformed? You typed six sentences and five of them are demonstrably false.
actually, the Jeep has been to places where a Defender has not.
"The Jeep Wrangler has set the Guinness World Record for highest altitude attained by a four-wheeled vehicle after ferrying Matthias Jeschke and his Extrem Events adventure team up Chile's Ojos del Salado, the highest volcano on Earth. The trek from base camp to the world record height ran from March 7 to March 13, when the team's pair of Wrangler Rubicon Unlimiteds checked in at 6,646 meters, or 21,804 feet. "
read for yourself please www.autoblog.com/2007/04/03/jeep-wrangler-gets-high-sets-record/
Great review, really enjoyed seeing these two off-road warriors. Just a note on the HDC on the JK Wrangler. Once activated, the speed can be adjusted up and down while driving simply by changing gears.
1st low - 1.5km/h
2nd low - 4km/h
3rd low - 6.5km/h
4th low - 9 km/h
Drive12 km/h
It’s a great system 👍
I found your channel a couple of days ago, and I am really glad I did! Your reviews and advice are really top notch, very balanced and based in reality. Thank you for the information.
This is the first time I have watched one of your videos. I liked it. You were fair and knowledgeable. I will be back.
As a relatively young person looking to get in to 4x4’ing, I am finding this channel very helpful. Thank you :)
"What single unique character makes their vehicle special to them?"
Jeep: "It provides you a sense of being invincible. Everything is so well thought out and put together that driving it, no matter where you are or where you're going to is never an issue. You just use it and it goes."
Land Rover: "Everywhere where you go and you stop, the guys always come and talk to you and swap stories out."
I think that about sums it up.
I think it's worth saying that this is in this video at 37:20 for those who didn't make it that far. It says a lot in my opinion. Of course, in America, the players could easily be reversed. Park an overland Jeep and people gather.
@@1ode2joy They shouldn't have compared it to a Jeep JK which was a mass market appeal car with 1 million+ sold. They should have compared it to the holy grail of Jeeps, the 2004-2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (long Wheel Base) 2 door Rubicon which has the legendary 4.0L I6 Engine that literally can run reliably without engine oil. Also, every Jeep Wrangler ever made is a Convertible, and you can make it look like a Defender if you want with a Gr8tops Safari Hardtop. Not to mention parts are very cheap for the Jeep. A brand new Engine is only $2000.
@@seanl764 Run reliably without engine oil? Drop the hyperbole it will make you seem more trust worthy
@@chadingram6390 Jeep 4.0l i6 from the 1990's were notorious for having a faulty oil pump after 100k miles. There are numerous people on Jeep forums who ran their 4.0L with a broken oil pump for thousands of miles before they noticed. The 4.0l is a big engine with a robust block that is very understressed and overbuilt. It only outputs 190hp, only bad thing about it is that it runs hot and it overheats easily, which is quite annoying if you are in the bogs and constantly need to be on the gas to get out of sticky situations, but the radiator is pretty straightforward to change out and there are plenty of aftermarket solutions.
@@designexplainedllc346 Someone claiming to drive thousands of miles without oil pressure on an internet forum is a lot different from
"literally can run reliably without engine oil"
This is one of the best videos iv ever watched in my life,well done Gentlemen.
I appreciate how you set a fair playing field for both the vehicles. I love the iconic defender and the much loved jeep.
Andrew S (4xOverland), just wanted to say thank you for such a lovely channel. I am very glad that I stumbled upon it on while doing research on Jeeps and trying to learn about mine. Its such a refreshing thing to see someone give thoughtful, unbiased commentary and also just have interesting things to say and show us in general. Thanks again.
Thank you for taking the time to put this together. I can imagine the setting, content, production took some time. I am looking forward to the Cruiser comparison. On a personal note, having seen Japanese, American and British 4x4 work on multiple continents (exploration geologist by profession) I would say that I don't have a clear winner that is always my "go to' vehicle. This relates to support (parts), cost and a multitude of little factors.
Here in Australia the Criuser rules supreme and is hard to beat, yet earlier this year I was in Gabon and good old, ex-UK Army Landrovers driven by the drilling company were the best vehicles on site in the rainy season. On a side note about track though, several years ago one fo the drilling companies put people into F250's in the bush rather than putting three big blokes across the front seat of a HJ Cruiser ute. Great vehciles for getting from Perth to the field site (1000km drive) but no good once they were there. Why? it was not build quality, handling etc but the wider track. So much wider that you always had one wheel well off the 'beaten track' and they picked up stake after stake and had to change tyres continuously. This came to mind when I heard you discussing track.
To each there own and I can put my hand up to personally owning multiple variatiosn of Amercian, British and japanese 4x4's but i will leave you guessing as to which one it is right now.
All the best
Adrian Byass
this is best 4x4 review I ever saw , Thank you Sir!
I'm a Rubicon owner but I want to point out we are not comparing apples to apples when money is the bottom line, (it always is.) The Land Rover is more expensive. However, you hit the nail on the head with the storage space and towing capacity because the Rubicon can not compete at all. I will point out that over-land "touring" or traveling in the Jeep is considerably better with the top and doors off. That makes it worth the difference! :D
I know a lot of students in high school who drove Wranglers and their reliability is TERRIBLE. It was normal to be leaving school once every 8-10 days and I'd see a poor sap with his Jeep's hood open in the rain, trying to get it to start.
Probably some sort of custom engineering gone wrong. The i6 last a long time with no issues. The newer models with the 3.6 is really good too. The 3.8 model was horrible and would hydro-lock (from what I understand.)
Roderick Brehm
Ha ha ha! You're probably at least 50% right since a lot of those had the living crap modified out of them. I'm guessing they did one or two mods, then got addicted and kept going until they screwed up! I used to own a MINI Cooper but was too scared to mod it because it was goddamn complicated. The windows had a mind of their own and kept rolling down without warning every month or two!
Not sure which wranglers you're talking about... but the majority of high school students I doubt are able to afford something newer than a TJ.. and a YJ or TJ is a pretty damn reliable platform, those inline 6 4.2s and 4.0s are pretty much bullet proof. I know of one at 770k+ miles and it's still going strong on the original engine... My first one had 258k, my current one is barely broken in at 170k...
in terms of price, your location plays a big role. Here in the UK defenders are not the expensive but jeep rubicons are, but i'm sure in america it's the other around.
Amazing video, Andrew. That superimposed video of the axle articulation was fantastic. Thank you.
Brilliant video. The roasting of both vehicles cracked me up. Both vehicles are amazing.
The reason why I did not mention reliability is that it is not something that can be measured. And, as importantly, reliability means different things to different people. So I felt that mentioning it in the revue is pointless.
+4xOverland
AND: fix a Defender issue and fix Jeep issue, that may will become a different challenge somewhere out there - so really 'reliability' is very difficult to put in numbers.
+Gold Rush Reliability is entirely a user experience, and cannot be measured, and is never measured, because there is no measurement that can be attributed to it.
+Gold Rush What you are suggesting is possible in theory, but impossible in practice. How does one drive two vehicles identically? Impossible in this universe. And what is the measurement of reliability? There is none. How often does it break down? Define break down. How much preventative maintenance is needed? What is the measure of preventative maintenance? How does one differentiate preventative maintenance with repairing a component? Impossible.
+Gold Rush No need to insult me. I thought this was a discussion, not a contest. No need to answer
+4xOverland My wife keeps on telling me. . . don't engage if you disagree with YT comments! But I am trying to learn something. But your response is typical of most. Instead of responding with facts, you attack my knowledge and insult me simply because I disagree with you.
This is super interesting! really! I loved it and going to watch another "defender vs ... "
I've been driving a Rubicon for two years now and I'll be getting a 2015 Defender in a week thanks to you Andrew. I am certainly proud being able to own two legendary icons.
Thanks for the great and quality video. Cheers and be safe!
Really fantastic video. First time EVER commenting and I love these two vehicles and feel you gave a very accurate and fair comparison. Good job and thanks!!
What a beautiful episode! This gentleman looks like he gave it his all :) thank you, Sir. Excellently done! And the off-road teacher gentleman, so calm and peaceful. I could probably accept anything he might teach me simply cuz he is so calm n composed and regal like :)
You did however limit the jeep by not allowing its use of its sway bar disconnect option or the front and rear differential lock feature (I forgot which one u did not allow) for the sake of fair game :)
Altogether, a beautiful watch this video was. Thank you, gentlemen! Johny
brillant, truly great review, perfect always wondered about this thanks so much.
Amazing brilliant video. These guys are great when it comes to offroading. They aren't trying to make you laugh or annoy you with personal bs. They are truly thorough unbiased and objective. I enjoyed the Jeep WK Grand Cherokee review many years ago and enjoyed this one even more. Excellent work!
If you are going to showcase the hill descent feature of the Rubicon, you need to do the same for the front and rear axle locking differentials, it really makes the gap in off-roading performance that much greater. I'd expect the Rubicon to tackle that obstacle on first try with no slipping.
You're absolutely correct! Now they could get a new Defender against that Rubicon and Rubicon would still be better I've seen it done in real life. Also he said the defendant had better will travel that's not true he probably didn't disconnect the sway bars on the Jeep with the electronic option. Have you seen the later video or he takes a black Rubicon to the sand dunes and you finally admits it's the best off road vehicle in the world
this is one of the best reviews I have ever seen.
so much useful information, love it.
Good work and keep it up.
Awesome content as always.Thanks for sharing and taking us along
Great work, very well done....excellent! I hope you continue post more comparisons.....it is really great!
Great video as always !
The Jeep is 4x4 weapon while the Defender is a 4x4 overland tool, the former a lifestyle offroading toy while the latter a workhorse recreational camping tool. Both have ups and downs.
I have never driven off road nor have I owned a 4x4 though I am interested. However, your channel is absolutely riveting. I don't know how I found you but when I did I just keep watching your vids one after the other. You must be doing something right! Many thanks Andrew from an urban dodgem car driver in England.
I absolutely love my 2014 JKU Sahara... waited along time before finding one I could afford.... it's awesome!!!!
Thanks fella's this fairest comparison demo I have seen in a long time, I own a Jeep JK unlimited 2010 Diesel 2.8 turbo and I love the thing, rattles and all,.so thanks again.
As an American, I would just like to say, after years of off roading, I completely agree with your assessment.
Thank you for your very honest report.
This was a very good video, well worth my time.
Thanks for making such great informative content 👍👍
I'm an American living in Texas. This is an objective comparison.....and I might say....bloody well done!!!
The comparison I've been waiting for - well done Andrew!
My questions: 1. You made no reference to the sway bar disconnect of the Rubicon. Was this activated during your test? 2. The Rubicon's transfer case has an extra-low 4:1 ratio. You commented that the speed going down-hill (with descent control on) was perfect. Was this due to the low gearing or the electronic descent control?
All too often a 4wd comparison comes down to who has the best tires. Bravo to you guys for solving that first. Great job!!
Brilliant, informative, and fun! Thank you!
I thought it was a good comparison, and it is a good point about the payload and range. However, the fact that the Jeep had far better off road abilities, even when intentionally crippled, is telling indeed. Your fuel range is zero when you are stuck ;)
Do you know which cripples the jeep? Thats right the hummer 1 will go where jeep cant. I wish jeep had the same suspension.
@@jonbertocchi173 only to a certain extent. I love the humvee, it's my dream truck. But they are massive, to the point of impracticality. Too big for small trails. And they are very difficult to modify. You definitely need lots of expertise to upgrade a humvee. Jeeps are comparatively easy to upgrade
To be fair the h1 is a lot wider than the wrangler
And now as 2019 draws to a close, the new Defender 110 is available for roughly the same price as a four-door Rubicon.
What a time to be alive!!!
Enjoyed your video! I own a jeep and watching videos like this is awesome for me to see where people are wheeling and the common love by 4x4 enthusiasts for the outdoors across the world.
Great video. So refreshing to see people do a comparison without bias and egos and immaturity.
You missed one big thing about the hand straps in the rear. These are safety devices. If you hang on to something solid and roll the vehicle, your hand is crushed. If you are hanging on to a swingy strap, it just moves around and saves your hand from getting crushed. The Jeep is well thought out.
Oh. That's very interesting. I learned something new today. Thanks for that.
Great video, as an old school 4x4er I have never put much on "electronic" controls like the downhill assist. I now own a 2015 Jeep Wrangler Willies, took it up a track here in Colorado called Red Cone Pass; its has a decent from 12,800 ft that is unbelievable (google it). anyways, i put on the down hill assist thinking it wouldn't help, but why not, and wow. The jeep walked down the hill like it was walking down a country lane.
and meanwhile you're sitting there 1/32nds of an inch off the brake pedal biting your nails wondering if it knows what it's doing... Yep, I was doing the same thing, lol :D
Awesome review/versus of these two vehicles! Your teams production value is quite high, keep up the great work!
Very honest and fair review. Loved it! And yes, would love to see one using all the vehicle capabilities (lockers). Thank you for putting this together!
This test should be the way all off road reviews should be done
By intentionally hamstringing one vehicle? Other than that tho, it was pretty good.
My choice is Wrangler Rubi. Yes, I'm also biased toward "American stuff".
Can't wait to get my Rubi. Test drove one recently, and I thought it was a great drive on the road.
i think, this episode is very very good.. in fact, it tackles in depth areas more than just simply the vehicles itself.. i thank you for that.. great effort man..! ;)
Nicely done, sir. I own a lifted Rubicon but love others like the Defender and older Land Cruisers. Love seeing these videos..will subscribe to your channel. Thanks!
I love only one (JEEP) but respect and enjoy the heritage of the Defender. The Jeep is part of us Colonist ;) and it's part of the family when your an owner.
I own a rubicon in Montana, I love my baby but if tomorrow, I was told I had to drive a Defender, I would be just as happy.
This is an excellent review of two outstanding off-road vehicles. Well done. I like that you knew not to compare apples to oranges and reduced any bias. Thanks!
A really good comparison. I enjoyed your video a lot. Thank you very much!
Great video. I would have liked to see the Jeep's axle diff locks in action, just to see how big a difference they make, even though the Defender doesn't have them.
Makes a ton when necessary
I love my Jeep for it's flexibility...not only the range of travel for the front and rear axles...but for the front and rear lockers... I get to choose if I wan't front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, all wheel drive or limited slip, everyday stuff....either way, I get to decide.
The "front wheel drive" lever on mine must have fallen off.
pcosta816
You know, you are right. I can lock the front but the rear stays limited slip, so it's not really front wheel drive...but most of the traction comes from then front in that case.
+pcosta816 ya,mine didnt have that either
This is probably the best comparison I have ever seen between the two, and i pretty much agree completely with your conclusions. I passionately love both vehicles so thank you for the great an honest review.
I discover this video even if it's not all new... Great video!
Nice to see fair comparisons in an automobile channel. It's difficult to do and maybe more for off-road vehicles but it's very well. Most of TH-camrs and auto journalists compare cars that should not be, don't understand how to do it, don't understand enough the mechanic to even try a good comparison and make bad conclusions.
I like and follow. Thank you.
Very good review. I own a modified Unlimited Rubicon. Do a lot of rock climbing with it. Always wondered why I saw the Land Rovers and never Jeeps in the safari and expedition videos. Now I know. I must add that with the rear seats folded down and externally - mounted fuel tanks, the Jeep might be able to match the LR in range and capacity. Where the LR must follow a trail, the slightly modified Jeep can blaze its own trails and go where most other 4x4's can't.
Great video! IMO the Jeep proved to be superior in ability overall. I appreciate the character of the vehicles, but would go for the Jeep.
The big thing for me is that the 110 is not a 110 i own one that is an old military spec and it has dif lock but no back seats. 2 rows of bench seats instead.
It's been half a day since i found your channel, i wish i found before thank you.
Wow. I really enjoyed,this video even though I am not into 4 wheel driving.
Very thorough, very well produced. Thanks
I currently have a 2 door Jeep JK and it is my 4th Jeep and IMO the biggest weakness is the lack of load capacity and towing ability. That said it is excellent in just about every other area.
Well, FCA listened your pray: the new pick-up Gladiator has lots of load capacity and towing ability. Greetings from Costa Rica.
Toyota still makes a whole line of offroad vehicles that havent changed.. they just dont offer them in the states because barely any market for them.. the troopy.. the classic hilux trucks etc.. all still for sale world wide. Plus they offer base model and diesel Land cruisers that will rival anything by Jeep or Land Rover
I simply love the iconic Defender, it's my dream SUV!
Regardless of all the old disadvantages, this car gives us the feeling that it is full of itself.
The style, the reliability, the lack of comfort, everything is part of its character.
Reliability...... Let me disagree 😆 I have one it's always at the workshop
@@carandril86 maybe it is your fault, a good Defender with right maintenance is reliable
Great video! Very informative!
Great video, professionally thought through and executed! A pleasure to watch and to listen to. You can't beat real world experience, and I say that as a relative youngster. Thank you.
The filming and narration of these videos reminds me of a David Attenborough special...except with vehicles.
They are both great!
However I think Land Rover failed in keeping the defender up with the times and hence why there is no more defender. I was honestly thinking about swapping my JK diesel for a defender mid last year. Went to the LR dealership and was treated very poorly there by the sales people. I had to demand their assistance and a test drive after waiting 45 mins circling a defender with nobody coming to see me.
It was then that i truely realised how dated and poor the interior is compared to the Jeep JK. Very cramped to the point where the only way I could steer was with the window open so my elbow could protrude out.
And power wise the Defender couldnt touch the wrangler's VM motori. It felt slow, sluggish and truck like compared to my JK.
Still love the defender but having the Jeep before hand really put me off and thats when i decided to keep the jeep instead of the swap.
The jeep is also much safer in the event of a collision.
Just my 2 cents and I know not everybody will agree with me but thats the awesome nature of being human, We are all different with different likes/dislikes.
Awesome Videos. I really enjoy them!
You can buy all that stuff for defenders too, probably cheaper and undoubtably in more places throughout the world.. Not only that, but with the £10,000 saved by going for a defender 90 over the rubicon (retail cost uk) you could buy axle lockers, multiple sets of tyres, a winch or two, or even a van full of after market goodies if you so desired. The rubicon would then be left well behind off road for the same money.
Jkandl actually hit the nail on the head. The actual difference is refinement, and that is personal preference. Personally i loved having the ol elbow out of the window. I love the air conditioning even more, two fecking flaps with levers!!!! That's great. No carpet? Good, i can clean it out with a hose pipe. Uncomfortable seats, love em, i'm a bit odd like that.
The defender has it's place: farms, expeditions, military, true off roading and passionate enthusiasts.. It's near perfection for such markets... Land Rover don't really target the general public with defenders for good reason, they don't need to. They have other 4x4's targeted at normal folk who want comforts, plus, the defender pretty much dominates the global market for it's particular class of vehicle.. If someone wanted a refined land rover they sell them. The Freelander, Discovery and Range Rover. Various styles and engine sizes available. In other words, people need to stop telling themselves they want a utility vehicle when really they want an SUV. Maybe that way people will stop being disappointed with the trim of a utility 4x4 vehicle. It's not a friggin land cruiser :P
They should stay basic and unrefined.. I'll just give you a quick example of why changing some of the things you mentioned would actually be bad for the defenders intended use and market.
- More ellbow room would require a wider cab. A defender is very well known for getting through narrow spaces (dense woodland). Is it worth losing that for elbow room? Not on a utility off road truck, most true off road has obstructions, it doesn't matter how much elbow room your car has if you have to walk
.
- Refinements need cleaning. Defenders carry dead livestock, feeds, mud, all sorts. Add refinements and you can't hose it down. In fact it would probably be in a terrible state within weeks of hard use.
- Refinements break. The less to break the better for it's intended use.
- A bigger engine isn't really needed. The 200/300 tdi and td5 have enough power to get through deep mud and snow, but not so much to apply too much force on slippery technical sections. They also tow well. Real world off roading isn't mud baths and v8 engines, it's tight, technical and normally slippery sections at a slow pace. Some off roaders actually fit lower powered engines without turbo's by choice.
JkandI i love defender and my dad is probaly going too get one but like you said everybody is diferent
@@queef3057 buy all what stuff? Haha he didn't mention buying anything. Just talked about the overpriced outdated slow Defender
@@queef3057 you must really not like the new Defender the way you are defending how great the old one is for being so under-equipped and every way the new one is so over equipped now hahaha but that's how Brits are at they are way underdone or way overdone they don't find a middle line everything they do seems overdone or underdone
@@ronaldrrootiii6040 lol. Under equipped. It's a utility vehicle it's not about who has the best AC and heated seats. Original defender isn't designed as an suv, it's a work vehicle.
Sorry to break it to you but axles out perform modern air suspension / tc setups.
No serious off roader would disagree. Maybe those who call a muddy track off road would agree with you.
I'll accept I'm wrong when I see them doing the same work a defender has been doing for decades.
The newer discoveries however have already done a real good job of showing users they are not as capable as previous generations. Sure Jeremy Clarkson took one up a hill, but that's nothing compared to what an early axle driven disco can do.
To get a modern style defender or disco to do the same work requires some seriously expensive upgrades. It's been seen time and time again with modern LR getting bellied out in terrain a standard axle driven LR wouldn't. They simply don't deliver fully on their promise.
Not saying I don't like them at all, just I don't see them as the same thing. They are suv now, not utility work vehicles. And that comes at price in cost and capability.
I'm sure they make great cars for doctors but you simply ain't seeing them on farms in high numbers and it is for good reason.
It's probably worth noting that I live in Cumbria UK, a place where farming is a central factor in the landscape and terrain is simply put, pretty damn bad. It's a very wet, muddy and rocky area, it's called the lake District for good reason. I've used both modern and old style 4x4, and have experienced the shortfalls of both in real world use.
I'll say this: it's only the modern ones that I've had to have recovered. They tend to belly out more readily, and as you may or may not know, that can be a real pig to recover as the flat belly creates a lot of suction. Not as bad on the old defender, actually I've not once been truly stuck in one.
There are other advantages too that are very well established. Such as TC based 4x4 systems being reactive and only kicking in after traction is lost. Opposed to an axle driven vehicle where you can lock the drivetrain independently of electronically controlled systems, when you want it.
Hands down the best I've used, as in capability not features, late model 300tdi. Has the best of both worlds. Axle driven, with TC. It's doesn't rely on the TC. I paid £10.5 k for a low mileage model on a galvanised chassis. It'll outlive the new defenders your seeing on the roads now, more capable, fraction of the price. But I use them as work vehicles not family cars.
Prices for old defenders are inflated overseas, maybe something you should consider. I know in the US they pay up to 80k dollars, and that's not a good buy I would agree.
Very different vehicles the old and new. I guarantee you'll not see the modern versions being held onto like the older ones, for good reason.
Im certain if you go to any serious 4x4 forum and ask these questions you'll see I'm correct:
Which is better for off road use: axle driven or modern TC based systems
(The answer is axle driven)
Which is better for off road use: chassis or monocoque
(The answer is chassis)
What a thorough review! Thanks!
One of the best reviews on ANY car i've seen. EVER
I thought this was a great review, though I'd have liked to see more testing, but I thought your comparison was spot on and for anyone mentioning any bias because you're british... You were in favour of the american vehicle in terms of performance, which is totally against the grain and I think proves in this situation you were being true and honest.
Both great vehicles, both LEGENDARY. Both can get the job done with unique strengths and weaknesses. A bit of a let down the Jeep had to be handicapped without the use of its lockers, to make it fair to the Rover. Strictly from an offroad perspective . . . .the Jeep has no equal, easily king of the mountain. Even without the lockers.
Wonderful review and fairly conducted, pros and cons of both cars clearly explained! Nice work.
The best unbiased vehicle comparison made to date.
*Maybe I’ve watched this video more times then I should have.
Fair testing. But the Jeep's locking-diff would give it a big advantage. What about price, difference?
Excellent comparison. Thank you.
the defender is so cool,as a defender, but for serious off roading my rubicon is where i will be, great fun to see the comparison, good job
RC Mike Klein just the novelty of defender makes it better to me
Great videos and everything highly well compared. Thanks for your help. Bravi!
Fantastic!! Thanks Andrew this was a great comparison
That was the most boring off-road trip ever, were the wrangler's sway bars even disconnected? didn't matter I guess no articulation was needed. Loved the part of keeping the lockers off to keep it fair, its not fair at all, wrangler wins!
Exactly what I was thinking.
+flybyav8tor Absolutely right. He left a major benefit to the jeep disabled because the LR didn't have it?! I don't think I'd be doing that in the field so don't do it in a field test.
they had to keep the sway bars connected and differentials unlocked to keep it fair lol.
@@gro_skunk i know, he should have filled up the cargo area of the defender to keep it fair to the jeeps lesser cargo area
We who like 4x4's, the more the vehicle is awkward and unhappy on the road the more we enjoy it. We just like to smerk at the idea of a vehicle with comfort and style as the main goal instead of one with getting things done as its purpose. This is not unique to serious 4x4 owners, think low riders or street racers, but these 2 off roaders are great examples of vehicles that gladly say "we don't care" to the creature comforts of most vehicles.
Best video i have ever watched... Just great 👏👏👏
Had to subscribe..wonderful content.
Interesting, but a poor comparison. You should have used the Jeep Wrangler Sport. It's closer in features. The Rubicon has auto sway bar disconnects and and front and rear lockers standard. Not using them is like sending a fighter into the ring with one hand tied behind his back.
should have compared with an original wrangler, not rubicon mw3
the jeep still won
@@healthyamerican It did, but the point of comparison is to see the difference, not just a winner. If you race a corvette and a golf, you don't use 3/4 throttle in the vette because it wins anyway....
it annoys me that you excluded the Rubicon's lockers, as they wouldn't be in the defender, but at the same time you said you liked the defender better because it had more space, which the wrangler didn't have. if you are going to include individual features, allow both to use what is unique to them. Just saying
but you can add a locker to defender , you cant add more space in the rear of a wrangler , dimentions wise anyway
@@mudpanther6079 Sure you can add more space in the rubicon, by getting the rubicon unlimited.
I own a Defender but am sure the Wrangler would have the edge in extreme off road with the locking differentials.
@@dre04mach that is a rubicon unlimited lol
Great video, fantastic comparison of two wonderful off road vehicles
Thank you, Appreciate your informative & objective comparison.
How could a Jeep fan not like the Land Rover...How could a Land Rover fan not like the Jeep.
Great comparison. I find it a little unfair (bias aside) that the lockers were left out, as you were comparing vehicle to vehicle, not features to features. Not that it really matters because the Jeep won the off road portion anyway, but that small hill climb would have been child's play for any vehicle locked at both ends. As for the gvwr of the jeep, I wouldn't worry about that because if you try to stuff 5 adults in a wrangler, your trip will self destruct before you make it through that first full tank of fuel.
davejeep yep especially since even a Rubicon Wrangler is less expensive than a base Defender, so not testing it with lockers is not fair.
Keep up the great work very informative
Thanks for the review! Great job!