Not being an owner but a lover of the Defender and a "knower" of nothing to do with "off-roading" I enjoyed this immensely. I loved the fact that the reviewer, an expert in his own right is not a know-it-all and does ask for help where he feels he might not do justice to the review. In terms of balance I felt it was quite fair e.g. leaving out the Jeep's more advance suspension features to better approximate and even out the comparison to that of the older Defender. Lastly, I find it fascinating that at changeover to the owner drivers that one can pick up that they prefer brute force over patient thought out, line-picking negotiation over terrain. Good work! PS: I don't think this review was to convince anyone that one religion is better that the other. No one is being converted here, relax guys ;)
Their designs are also built to suit specific tasks. We don't do much overland driving here in the US, and those who do use off road trailers to pull behind the Jeeps. Likewise you wouldn't normally use a Land Rover where we drive our Jeeps either. Most of our off road experiences are in wooded areas or tight mountain trails. The Land Rovers are at home in the deserts where most of them play. Great comparison though, not biased like most videos.
Brendan James Landrovers are not built for the desert mate. They are built to do it all, same as a Landcruiser. Have a look at the Landrover training course in the UK
@@Crashryding Land rovers would not be able to follow a rubicon rock crawling. There are no land rovers or range rovers in the king of the hammers competition for example...
+4xOverland i have a G also, and a that price point i think a comparison becomes a bit tenuous. besides, the articulation in a G is terrible. in a devious way, i think you should compare the G v. defender with the lockers off, since its more apples to apples in the overland/payload arena. ive always said the defender was much better at doing everything but carrying me.
+4xOverland The current Land Cruiser V8 against the Mercedes G, or what else.. I was out (last year) with a guy having a current V8 Land Cruiser - wow this car delivers - wolf in sheep dress we would say. (Being Land Rover addicted, but looking over the soup plate)
@@healthyamerican because most wranglers are not mall crawlers? Common... Both veicules are great Jeep nuts and landies nuts are quite annoying Its like only their veicule is good and all the rest its not worth it.
BongRasta No offense but, it's obvious you've never owned one. I was the same way at 19 yrs old when I bought my first vehicle- a 1978 IH Scout ll.. I was the baddest mutha on the planet with that truck. Now 40 yrs later and I've got that same feeling with my Jeep. It's just passion. You heard the man at the beginning , its like a religion. When you buy a vehicle you love it becomes your life's reason
I don't understand why you exclude the Jeep's locking diffs from consideration just because the LR doesn't have them... It doesn't have Hill Descent Control either but you included that. Isn't the presence of lockers on the Jeep an advantage that should be considered?
It's a brit reviewing a US vehicle that's about to take the beloved defender for a run. The hill climb would have been done without a single slip of a wheel with both lockers on.
I have to agree And as far as saying this Jeep isn't stock those are 31" tires pretty darn standard and just BFG all terrains pretty standard indeed . Even sports come with 31" Wranglers (Arguably better than the bfg's ) The only real benefits of the rubicon are the lockers and the gear ratios (not sure if that specific model comes with the dana 44's or not most rubicons did) otherwise get a sport to compare. Most Slightly modified Jeeps would not spin on this course Unlocker swaybar Small lift 35" tires GG
+sf len maybe in other countries they come with those 31 all terrains ta ko's, but here in the states rubicons only come with the mud terrain, in a 32" tire. the sports come with a pretty much highway tire unless you option up.
+sf len maybe in other countries they come with those 31 all terrains ta ko's, but here in the states rubicons only come with the mud terrain, in a 32" tire. the sports come with a pretty much highway tire unless you option up.
"What single unique character makes their vehicle special to them?" Jeep: "It provides you a sense of being invincible. Everything is so well thought out and put together that driving it, no matter where you are or where you're going to is never an issue. You just use it and it goes." Land Rover: "Everywhere where you go and you stop, the guys always come and talk to you and swap stories out." I think that about sums it up.
I think it's worth saying that this is in this video at 37:20 for those who didn't make it that far. It says a lot in my opinion. Of course, in America, the players could easily be reversed. Park an overland Jeep and people gather.
@@1ode2joy They shouldn't have compared it to a Jeep JK which was a mass market appeal car with 1 million+ sold. They should have compared it to the holy grail of Jeeps, the 2004-2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (long Wheel Base) 2 door Rubicon which has the legendary 4.0L I6 Engine that literally can run reliably without engine oil. Also, every Jeep Wrangler ever made is a Convertible, and you can make it look like a Defender if you want with a Gr8tops Safari Hardtop. Not to mention parts are very cheap for the Jeep. A brand new Engine is only $2000.
@@chadingram6390 Jeep 4.0l i6 from the 1990's were notorious for having a faulty oil pump after 100k miles. There are numerous people on Jeep forums who ran their 4.0L with a broken oil pump for thousands of miles before they noticed. The 4.0l is a big engine with a robust block that is very understressed and overbuilt. It only outputs 190hp, only bad thing about it is that it runs hot and it overheats easily, which is quite annoying if you are in the bogs and constantly need to be on the gas to get out of sticky situations, but the radiator is pretty straightforward to change out and there are plenty of aftermarket solutions.
@@designexplainedllc346 Someone claiming to drive thousands of miles without oil pressure on an internet forum is a lot different from "literally can run reliably without engine oil"
There are some discussion as to my nationality as a result of the fact that viewers are accustomed to Brits loving Land Rovers, and Americans loving Jeeps, based purely on their nationality. I assume you think this is so here? Well, think again. I don't care! Really, I don't. BTW. My favourite 4WD is the G-Wagen 461 series and the Land Cruiser, which is what I drive now. And no, I'm not Japanese. Or German. As it happens, born in England to Australian and New Zealand Parents, lived most of my life in Africa, live now in Australia and one of my current favourite places to go overlanding is the USA. Get to know my work and you will understand.
Hmm. But all of that does not make you objective. The interior is "typical American." Every reviewer from the British empire. I just don't know... Nonetheless, liked and subscribed. Bc, you know, good video...
If you aren't going to use the Rubicons' differential locks then you aren't testing it's full capability and any vs comparison is null and void. Just because the Defender doesn't come with that feature that is standard on the Rubicon doesn't mean your must make them equal by handicapping the Rubi.... WHICH IS WHOLLY BIAS. Also listing the Defenders cons and shortcomings as "character" and endearing qualities unique to the Defender is complete hogwash and bias to it's core.... the same can be said of any vehicle. THUMBS DOWN
Does Jeeps have true Diff locks ! They have locking hubs but no lock in or lock out diffs . The Defender used to have both diffs locking in and out . That is why the Defender can go into places a jeep cant go . Plus the Defender has Boxed frame and Jeep dont . The Defender is vary stiff while the Jeep distorts in a twist .
Jeeps have fully boxed frames that are very strong. They have not used locking hubs for decades. The Rubicon model comes with selectable front and rear lockers stock. Were you high af when you typed that nonsense or are you just woefully misinformed? You typed six sentences and five of them are demonstrably false.
actually, the Jeep has been to places where a Defender has not. "The Jeep Wrangler has set the Guinness World Record for highest altitude attained by a four-wheeled vehicle after ferrying Matthias Jeschke and his Extrem Events adventure team up Chile's Ojos del Salado, the highest volcano on Earth. The trek from base camp to the world record height ran from March 7 to March 13, when the team's pair of Wrangler Rubicon Unlimiteds checked in at 6,646 meters, or 21,804 feet. " read for yourself please www.autoblog.com/2007/04/03/jeep-wrangler-gets-high-sets-record/
Andrew, that was a fantastic comparison and review of the two vehicles. I appreciate that you left out bias and let the comparable vehicle features do the talking. Your overlay shots with the turning radius and axle droop were both simple and powerful with their visuals. Well done! I also want to thank you for the driving skill videos you've produced. They've made a big difference in my driving maturity (and my Jeep's undercarriage thanks you). After years of rock crawling I'm just now venturing into overlanding and your TH-cam channel has been a great wealth of information.
I've been driving a Rubicon for two years now and I'll be getting a 2015 Defender in a week thanks to you Andrew. I am certainly proud being able to own two legendary icons.
I'm a Rubicon owner but I want to point out we are not comparing apples to apples when money is the bottom line, (it always is.) The Land Rover is more expensive. However, you hit the nail on the head with the storage space and towing capacity because the Rubicon can not compete at all. I will point out that over-land "touring" or traveling in the Jeep is considerably better with the top and doors off. That makes it worth the difference! :D
I know a lot of students in high school who drove Wranglers and their reliability is TERRIBLE. It was normal to be leaving school once every 8-10 days and I'd see a poor sap with his Jeep's hood open in the rain, trying to get it to start.
Probably some sort of custom engineering gone wrong. The i6 last a long time with no issues. The newer models with the 3.6 is really good too. The 3.8 model was horrible and would hydro-lock (from what I understand.)
Roderick Brehm Ha ha ha! You're probably at least 50% right since a lot of those had the living crap modified out of them. I'm guessing they did one or two mods, then got addicted and kept going until they screwed up! I used to own a MINI Cooper but was too scared to mod it because it was goddamn complicated. The windows had a mind of their own and kept rolling down without warning every month or two!
Not sure which wranglers you're talking about... but the majority of high school students I doubt are able to afford something newer than a TJ.. and a YJ or TJ is a pretty damn reliable platform, those inline 6 4.2s and 4.0s are pretty much bullet proof. I know of one at 770k+ miles and it's still going strong on the original engine... My first one had 258k, my current one is barely broken in at 170k...
in terms of price, your location plays a big role. Here in the UK defenders are not the expensive but jeep rubicons are, but i'm sure in america it's the other around.
I actually really enjoyed the review. I think it was a fair comparison. I actually really like Laddies. Being from North America I will always own a Jeep, and here is the reason. I actually owned a Land Rover here in North America, The sticker price on one of land rovers new or used is most of the time double to triple the price of a Jeep. The price of parts maintenance and aftermarket parts are few and far between, expensive to the point of not being worth it, I lived it. Here in Canada the Jeep market is very accessible. It is literally the Mr. Potato Head of off road vehicles for North America. I could build an insane Overland vehicle that would destroy a Landy bare stock for its price here. And if it breaks I can get it repaired much easier and much, much cheaper. On the other hand if I lived somewhere like the UK or AUS I would most likely own a Landy or Toyota as the availability, parts and repair costs are almost flipped to my above analogy. I think that would have been worth mentioning in the video. A good 4x4 vehicle can be very dependant of where you live. Cheers and Thanks for the review.
True! Land Rover parts are (as far as I know the prices) the cheapest of all cars here if you order from the UK. If you buy i.e. from BMW the Land Rover part prices are on the level of Porsche!
4 years late but thats the most intelligent response ive heard to this debate. Im in the uk. LR are cheap and parts are so easily available. We don’t see jeeps. Jeep parts would be harder to find and more expensive.
I enjoyed that you said "this is my opinion, not science, so don't bother me about that". Your video is enjoyable because you are a person sharing your thoughts, we can read the details in a spreadsheet if needed. Here in the US, off roading is done for fun. Short trips done to challenge driver and machine. So the jeep has great approach and departure angles and not a lot of space. The jeep u compared is the longest one you can get and it has very little space compared to the Landy. Also the springs are designed for the flex and ride height for obstacles not heavy load. The Landy is far better for carrying gear and long overland travel. They sell so many diff versions of attachable rear shelves for the jeep, but that is not the same. In the end, great video and well done comparison. Makes me want to get the clutch fixed on my Pinz 710M and go off road.
The Jeep is 4x4 weapon while the Defender is a 4x4 overland tool, the former a lifestyle offroading toy while the latter a workhorse recreational camping tool. Both have ups and downs.
I have had the luck in life to own simultaneously both a 1997 110 and 2010 Jeep Jk Rubicon unlimited. The jeep was bought from the dealer, where the 110 was purchased used and in dire needs for maintenance. The first thing set these vehicles apart was that I found the 110 was like a tractor trying to be a car, while the Jeep was a car trying to be a tractor. Road manners for the jeep were far greater than the 110 on the paved roads, yet the 110 was superior on the offroad. The Utilitarian aspect of the 110 was very appealing for my uses and needs in a four wheel drive vehicle. My needs are simple, my occasional tasks are to get water with my 3/4 ton M 101a1 military trailer. My total payload including trailer is around 3000 lbs. At times I use the set up to harvest firewood in very remote areas. This is not work for a jeep at all. The Jeep would whine while towing my load of water. It actually sounded like it was out of oil as I revved the engine while under tow. The valves just rattled very loudly. Obviously the 110 never showed any weakness in the same circumstances. The 110 that I have has an axle equivalent to Dana 60, where the Jeep has a Dana 44. I eventually installed 33`s on my Jeep with a 2 inch Old Man Emu suspension kit. That turn out to be potentially not good for my C knuckles on the axle, as their design started to bend. My use was not very extreme. I found this to be a very concerning point for me to except seeing as the Rubicon was revered to be the toughest model in the Jeep line up. The overall build quality of the Jeep seemed to be somewhat junk as time went by. The 110 seemed to be much more solid. Less interior creeking noises. Jeeps used to be revered as easy vehicles to work on. I have found that 110 is way easier and cheaper for the diy mechanic. First hand impressions for some will find greater value with the Rubicon over the 110. In the long run, the 110 with a 300 tdi engine has proven to be the greater vehicle for my needs. A true fantasy comparison for this 110 owner would be to have a Gwagen, 70`s series, Rubicon Unlimited with a diesel, and a 110 in the lane way to let things sort itself out.
Greetings from South Africa. Your Defender 110 will then be one of the late 399tdi models since it is a 1997 model. We, as a family, don't own one at the moment but I tend to a gree that the 300tdi is a fantastic DIY engine to work on when problems occur and need to be fixed. The double cab pickup versions of the Defender are my personal favourite as they gave the practicallity of a double cab pickup and I also like to believe they are unique and something different to the traditional station wagon models. I'm not really a td5 fan as it was the era when things were beginning to become more electronic but I do respect the fact that some people enjoy that engine. However, I would buy a Discovery 2 with that engine and a manual transmition mainly for long distance tar road driving and some gravel road driving but not for extreme off-roading as 4xoverland discovered. For off-roading in a Discovery I would take the Discovery 1 wit the 300tdi engine and manual transmition. I also like the 2.4l Pumer engines, although they are more electronically controlled compared to the 300tdi engines. These are my thoughts as a blind person, putting myself in a normal sighted person's shoes.
Great review, really enjoyed seeing these two off-road warriors. Just a note on the HDC on the JK Wrangler. Once activated, the speed can be adjusted up and down while driving simply by changing gears. 1st low - 1.5km/h 2nd low - 4km/h 3rd low - 6.5km/h 4th low - 9 km/h Drive12 km/h It’s a great system 👍
You missed one big thing about the hand straps in the rear. These are safety devices. If you hang on to something solid and roll the vehicle, your hand is crushed. If you are hanging on to a swingy strap, it just moves around and saves your hand from getting crushed. The Jeep is well thought out.
The reason why I did not mention reliability is that it is not something that can be measured. And, as importantly, reliability means different things to different people. So I felt that mentioning it in the revue is pointless.
+4xOverland AND: fix a Defender issue and fix Jeep issue, that may will become a different challenge somewhere out there - so really 'reliability' is very difficult to put in numbers.
+Gold Rush Reliability is entirely a user experience, and cannot be measured, and is never measured, because there is no measurement that can be attributed to it.
+Gold Rush What you are suggesting is possible in theory, but impossible in practice. How does one drive two vehicles identically? Impossible in this universe. And what is the measurement of reliability? There is none. How often does it break down? Define break down. How much preventative maintenance is needed? What is the measure of preventative maintenance? How does one differentiate preventative maintenance with repairing a component? Impossible.
+4xOverland My wife keeps on telling me. . . don't engage if you disagree with YT comments! But I am trying to learn something. But your response is typical of most. Instead of responding with facts, you attack my knowledge and insult me simply because I disagree with you.
If you are going to showcase the hill descent feature of the Rubicon, you need to do the same for the front and rear axle locking differentials, it really makes the gap in off-roading performance that much greater. I'd expect the Rubicon to tackle that obstacle on first try with no slipping.
You're absolutely correct! Now they could get a new Defender against that Rubicon and Rubicon would still be better I've seen it done in real life. Also he said the defendant had better will travel that's not true he probably didn't disconnect the sway bars on the Jeep with the electronic option. Have you seen the later video or he takes a black Rubicon to the sand dunes and you finally admits it's the best off road vehicle in the world
I thought it was a good comparison, and it is a good point about the payload and range. However, the fact that the Jeep had far better off road abilities, even when intentionally crippled, is telling indeed. Your fuel range is zero when you are stuck ;)
@@jonbertocchi173 only to a certain extent. I love the humvee, it's my dream truck. But they are massive, to the point of impracticality. Too big for small trails. And they are very difficult to modify. You definitely need lots of expertise to upgrade a humvee. Jeeps are comparatively easy to upgrade
I have never driven off road nor have I owned a 4x4 though I am interested. However, your channel is absolutely riveting. I don't know how I found you but when I did I just keep watching your vids one after the other. You must be doing something right! Many thanks Andrew from an urban dodgem car driver in England.
I simply love the iconic Defender, it's my dream SUV! Regardless of all the old disadvantages, this car gives us the feeling that it is full of itself. The style, the reliability, the lack of comfort, everything is part of its character.
I found your channel a couple of days ago, and I am really glad I did! Your reviews and advice are really top notch, very balanced and based in reality. Thank you for the information.
I currently have a 2 door Jeep JK and it is my 4th Jeep and IMO the biggest weakness is the lack of load capacity and towing ability. That said it is excellent in just about every other area.
Toyota still makes a whole line of offroad vehicles that havent changed.. they just dont offer them in the states because barely any market for them.. the troopy.. the classic hilux trucks etc.. all still for sale world wide. Plus they offer base model and diesel Land cruisers that will rival anything by Jeep or Land Rover
Thank you for taking the time to put this together. I can imagine the setting, content, production took some time. I am looking forward to the Cruiser comparison. On a personal note, having seen Japanese, American and British 4x4 work on multiple continents (exploration geologist by profession) I would say that I don't have a clear winner that is always my "go to' vehicle. This relates to support (parts), cost and a multitude of little factors. Here in Australia the Criuser rules supreme and is hard to beat, yet earlier this year I was in Gabon and good old, ex-UK Army Landrovers driven by the drilling company were the best vehicles on site in the rainy season. On a side note about track though, several years ago one fo the drilling companies put people into F250's in the bush rather than putting three big blokes across the front seat of a HJ Cruiser ute. Great vehciles for getting from Perth to the field site (1000km drive) but no good once they were there. Why? it was not build quality, handling etc but the wider track. So much wider that you always had one wheel well off the 'beaten track' and they picked up stake after stake and had to change tyres continuously. This came to mind when I heard you discussing track. To each there own and I can put my hand up to personally owning multiple variatiosn of Amercian, British and japanese 4x4's but i will leave you guessing as to which one it is right now. All the best Adrian Byass
We who like 4x4's, the more the vehicle is awkward and unhappy on the road the more we enjoy it. We just like to smerk at the idea of a vehicle with comfort and style as the main goal instead of one with getting things done as its purpose. This is not unique to serious 4x4 owners, think low riders or street racers, but these 2 off roaders are great examples of vehicles that gladly say "we don't care" to the creature comforts of most vehicles.
Amazing brilliant video. These guys are great when it comes to offroading. They aren't trying to make you laugh or annoy you with personal bs. They are truly thorough unbiased and objective. I enjoyed the Jeep WK Grand Cherokee review many years ago and enjoyed this one even more. Excellent work!
Jeep and Land Rover owners share the same spirit. The spirt of the outdoor adventures. Always dreaming about the next after market accessories. Always dreaming about the next trip. Life is good !!!
it annoys me that you excluded the Rubicon's lockers, as they wouldn't be in the defender, but at the same time you said you liked the defender better because it had more space, which the wrangler didn't have. if you are going to include individual features, allow both to use what is unique to them. Just saying
I cant say that I agree enough with this video. I live in Colorado and drive a lifted Wrangler X as my fulltime vehicle. It can go anywhere I could possibly want offroad without breaking a sweat, but take it on Interstate 25 at 75 MPH is one of the more terrifying experiences I've had. It's great to take camping when I'm by myself, throw other people and their stuff into the mix and things get complicated quickly.
Interesting, but a poor comparison. You should have used the Jeep Wrangler Sport. It's closer in features. The Rubicon has auto sway bar disconnects and and front and rear lockers standard. Not using them is like sending a fighter into the ring with one hand tied behind his back.
@@healthyamerican It did, but the point of comparison is to see the difference, not just a winner. If you race a corvette and a golf, you don't use 3/4 throttle in the vette because it wins anyway....
What a beautiful episode! This gentleman looks like he gave it his all :) thank you, Sir. Excellently done! And the off-road teacher gentleman, so calm and peaceful. I could probably accept anything he might teach me simply cuz he is so calm n composed and regal like :) You did however limit the jeep by not allowing its use of its sway bar disconnect option or the front and rear differential lock feature (I forgot which one u did not allow) for the sake of fair game :) Altogether, a beautiful watch this video was. Thank you, gentlemen! Johny
That was the most boring off-road trip ever, were the wrangler's sway bars even disconnected? didn't matter I guess no articulation was needed. Loved the part of keeping the lockers off to keep it fair, its not fair at all, wrangler wins!
+flybyav8tor Absolutely right. He left a major benefit to the jeep disabled because the LR didn't have it?! I don't think I'd be doing that in the field so don't do it in a field test.
The comparison I've been waiting for - well done Andrew! My questions: 1. You made no reference to the sway bar disconnect of the Rubicon. Was this activated during your test? 2. The Rubicon's transfer case has an extra-low 4:1 ratio. You commented that the speed going down-hill (with descent control on) was perfect. Was this due to the low gearing or the electronic descent control?
As an owner, at one time or another, of numerous Toyotas, and two Jeeps, I can appreciate, without bias, the look of shame and heartbreak at 27:15. Andrew, you're the best.
This is probably the best comparison I have ever seen between the two, and i pretty much agree completely with your conclusions. I passionately love both vehicles so thank you for the great an honest review.
Great video, as an old school 4x4er I have never put much on "electronic" controls like the downhill assist. I now own a 2015 Jeep Wrangler Willies, took it up a track here in Colorado called Red Cone Pass; its has a decent from 12,800 ft that is unbelievable (google it). anyways, i put on the down hill assist thinking it wouldn't help, but why not, and wow. The jeep walked down the hill like it was walking down a country lane.
and meanwhile you're sitting there 1/32nds of an inch off the brake pedal biting your nails wondering if it knows what it's doing... Yep, I was doing the same thing, lol :D
I love only one (JEEP) but respect and enjoy the heritage of the Defender. The Jeep is part of us Colonist ;) and it's part of the family when your an owner.
Great comparison Andrew. I think John summed it up beautifully. Off roading/adventuring/overlanding is about your relationship with your vehicle. Knowing how your vehicle will react in certain situations combined with the drivers experience and knowledge gets you a result (good or bad). At the end of the day we all love adventures and getting into the outdoors. Whatever horse you choose is your decision, and yours alone! Treat your horse well, learn as you go and have fun!
Mr. White, 1st things 1st.., A Fantastic comparison (IMO), I was most impressed with your efforts to be "unbiased". Additionally, the "Off Road~ Ascent & Descent testing" was the BEST comparison I've seen this far!
My choice is Wrangler Rubi. Yes, I'm also biased toward "American stuff". Can't wait to get my Rubi. Test drove one recently, and I thought it was a great drive on the road.
Great video. I would have liked to see the Jeep's axle diff locks in action, just to see how big a difference they make, even though the Defender doesn't have them.
They are both great! However I think Land Rover failed in keeping the defender up with the times and hence why there is no more defender. I was honestly thinking about swapping my JK diesel for a defender mid last year. Went to the LR dealership and was treated very poorly there by the sales people. I had to demand their assistance and a test drive after waiting 45 mins circling a defender with nobody coming to see me. It was then that i truely realised how dated and poor the interior is compared to the Jeep JK. Very cramped to the point where the only way I could steer was with the window open so my elbow could protrude out. And power wise the Defender couldnt touch the wrangler's VM motori. It felt slow, sluggish and truck like compared to my JK. Still love the defender but having the Jeep before hand really put me off and thats when i decided to keep the jeep instead of the swap. The jeep is also much safer in the event of a collision. Just my 2 cents and I know not everybody will agree with me but thats the awesome nature of being human, We are all different with different likes/dislikes. Awesome Videos. I really enjoy them!
You can buy all that stuff for defenders too, probably cheaper and undoubtably in more places throughout the world.. Not only that, but with the £10,000 saved by going for a defender 90 over the rubicon (retail cost uk) you could buy axle lockers, multiple sets of tyres, a winch or two, or even a van full of after market goodies if you so desired. The rubicon would then be left well behind off road for the same money. Jkandl actually hit the nail on the head. The actual difference is refinement, and that is personal preference. Personally i loved having the ol elbow out of the window. I love the air conditioning even more, two fecking flaps with levers!!!! That's great. No carpet? Good, i can clean it out with a hose pipe. Uncomfortable seats, love em, i'm a bit odd like that. The defender has it's place: farms, expeditions, military, true off roading and passionate enthusiasts.. It's near perfection for such markets... Land Rover don't really target the general public with defenders for good reason, they don't need to. They have other 4x4's targeted at normal folk who want comforts, plus, the defender pretty much dominates the global market for it's particular class of vehicle.. If someone wanted a refined land rover they sell them. The Freelander, Discovery and Range Rover. Various styles and engine sizes available. In other words, people need to stop telling themselves they want a utility vehicle when really they want an SUV. Maybe that way people will stop being disappointed with the trim of a utility 4x4 vehicle. It's not a friggin land cruiser :P They should stay basic and unrefined.. I'll just give you a quick example of why changing some of the things you mentioned would actually be bad for the defenders intended use and market. - More ellbow room would require a wider cab. A defender is very well known for getting through narrow spaces (dense woodland). Is it worth losing that for elbow room? Not on a utility off road truck, most true off road has obstructions, it doesn't matter how much elbow room your car has if you have to walk . - Refinements need cleaning. Defenders carry dead livestock, feeds, mud, all sorts. Add refinements and you can't hose it down. In fact it would probably be in a terrible state within weeks of hard use. - Refinements break. The less to break the better for it's intended use. - A bigger engine isn't really needed. The 200/300 tdi and td5 have enough power to get through deep mud and snow, but not so much to apply too much force on slippery technical sections. They also tow well. Real world off roading isn't mud baths and v8 engines, it's tight, technical and normally slippery sections at a slow pace. Some off roaders actually fit lower powered engines without turbo's by choice.
@@queef3057 you must really not like the new Defender the way you are defending how great the old one is for being so under-equipped and every way the new one is so over equipped now hahaha but that's how Brits are at they are way underdone or way overdone they don't find a middle line everything they do seems overdone or underdone
@@ronaldrrootiii6040 lol. Under equipped. It's a utility vehicle it's not about who has the best AC and heated seats. Original defender isn't designed as an suv, it's a work vehicle. Sorry to break it to you but axles out perform modern air suspension / tc setups. No serious off roader would disagree. Maybe those who call a muddy track off road would agree with you. I'll accept I'm wrong when I see them doing the same work a defender has been doing for decades. The newer discoveries however have already done a real good job of showing users they are not as capable as previous generations. Sure Jeremy Clarkson took one up a hill, but that's nothing compared to what an early axle driven disco can do. To get a modern style defender or disco to do the same work requires some seriously expensive upgrades. It's been seen time and time again with modern LR getting bellied out in terrain a standard axle driven LR wouldn't. They simply don't deliver fully on their promise. Not saying I don't like them at all, just I don't see them as the same thing. They are suv now, not utility work vehicles. And that comes at price in cost and capability. I'm sure they make great cars for doctors but you simply ain't seeing them on farms in high numbers and it is for good reason. It's probably worth noting that I live in Cumbria UK, a place where farming is a central factor in the landscape and terrain is simply put, pretty damn bad. It's a very wet, muddy and rocky area, it's called the lake District for good reason. I've used both modern and old style 4x4, and have experienced the shortfalls of both in real world use. I'll say this: it's only the modern ones that I've had to have recovered. They tend to belly out more readily, and as you may or may not know, that can be a real pig to recover as the flat belly creates a lot of suction. Not as bad on the old defender, actually I've not once been truly stuck in one. There are other advantages too that are very well established. Such as TC based 4x4 systems being reactive and only kicking in after traction is lost. Opposed to an axle driven vehicle where you can lock the drivetrain independently of electronically controlled systems, when you want it. Hands down the best I've used, as in capability not features, late model 300tdi. Has the best of both worlds. Axle driven, with TC. It's doesn't rely on the TC. I paid £10.5 k for a low mileage model on a galvanised chassis. It'll outlive the new defenders your seeing on the roads now, more capable, fraction of the price. But I use them as work vehicles not family cars. Prices for old defenders are inflated overseas, maybe something you should consider. I know in the US they pay up to 80k dollars, and that's not a good buy I would agree. Very different vehicles the old and new. I guarantee you'll not see the modern versions being held onto like the older ones, for good reason. Im certain if you go to any serious 4x4 forum and ask these questions you'll see I'm correct: Which is better for off road use: axle driven or modern TC based systems (The answer is axle driven) Which is better for off road use: chassis or monocoque (The answer is chassis)
Andrew S (4xOverland), just wanted to say thank you for such a lovely channel. I am very glad that I stumbled upon it on while doing research on Jeeps and trying to learn about mine. Its such a refreshing thing to see someone give thoughtful, unbiased commentary and also just have interesting things to say and show us in general. Thanks again.
Im glad you left the axles open. Really showcased how well the suspension keeps even pressure on both wheels. Lockers woulda hid that and everyone would have said no duh it was better it was locked.
I love my Jeep for it's flexibility...not only the range of travel for the front and rear axles...but for the front and rear lockers... I get to choose if I wan't front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, all wheel drive or limited slip, everyday stuff....either way, I get to decide.
pcosta816 You know, you are right. I can lock the front but the rear stays limited slip, so it's not really front wheel drive...but most of the traction comes from then front in that case.
Very good review. I own a modified Unlimited Rubicon. Do a lot of rock climbing with it. Always wondered why I saw the Land Rovers and never Jeeps in the safari and expedition videos. Now I know. I must add that with the rear seats folded down and externally - mounted fuel tanks, the Jeep might be able to match the LR in range and capacity. Where the LR must follow a trail, the slightly modified Jeep can blaze its own trails and go where most other 4x4's can't.
The big thing for me is that the 110 is not a 110 i own one that is an old military spec and it has dif lock but no back seats. 2 rows of bench seats instead.
I thought this was a great review, though I'd have liked to see more testing, but I thought your comparison was spot on and for anyone mentioning any bias because you're british... You were in favour of the american vehicle in terms of performance, which is totally against the grain and I think proves in this situation you were being true and honest.
Surprisingly, watching the two vehicles drive down the road, I think the Jeep looks better. I always thought the Defender was awesome, but I actually like the Jeep more. Humble opinion.
When I lived in the UK I owned a Land Rover Series 3, but always wanted a Jeep, now I live in the USA and own a CJ5 Jeep the one I lusted after as a teenager, I find myself hankering after a Land Rover, I think that's because they are both so iconic and have both been vehicles that influenced me so much in my youth. I guess having one of each would be the answer but Defender prices are outrageous here in the states some are in the G Wagen level, so I doubt I will ever own another and I console myself with memories of the negatives of the LR's to counter my heart that just wants one.
+Se7enAte Perhaps. In my markets in Australia, UK and South Africa, the Defender and Wrangler are bought by the same kind of people and used in similar ways. Our next will be Rubicon vs Cruiser FJ. What do you think?
+Se7enAte But production of the XJ stopped 15 years ago whereas the Defender is still in production. (for the next few months, or so.) I don't understand where you come from - the two were never comparable. The Wrangler Unlimited (JKU), Toyota 76 wagon and perhaps Mercedes Gelandewagen do compete in a similar market - tough professional grade 4x4s.
Jimbob Jones The XJs stopped production a while ago but they are very similar to the defender in their simplicity and even looks (not that looks matter for off road capabilities). Wranglers, especially rubicons, are made more for rock crawling whereas the defender and cherokee are more for lighter off-roading from the factory.
4xOverland I guess this comparison makes more sense from your perspective. Here in the states, Wranglers are used for more extreme situations. I'd love to see an FJ vs. Rubicon though since Toyota tries to compete with Jeep in that market
Very honest and fair review. Loved it! And yes, would love to see one using all the vehicle capabilities (lockers). Thank you for putting this together!
Presently, I m using Disco1 V8 and Jeep TJ Sport. I agree with 4xoverland from this video. Jeep is better for daily use and mud driving while I mostly drive D1 for onverland & expedition. Both are giving different taste and I love both.
ive owned a few jeeps, and now i am driving a Rover, and i will give it to the Rover hands down with out comparison the Rover is 1000times better in the snow!!! every jeep ive ever owned was sketchy at best in the snow, the Rover i had never had a single issue!!
i live in the 2nd coldest city in the world. jeeps everywhere,, not 1 land rover.they only come out when the snow is gone .tonight it's a balmy -43..plugged in (block heater) with an inline heater (cooling) an extra pan heater (oil pan) a battery blanket,and a fuel heater, the jeep will start easier with just a block heater.
Both great vehicles, both LEGENDARY. Both can get the job done with unique strengths and weaknesses. A bit of a let down the Jeep had to be handicapped without the use of its lockers, to make it fair to the Rover. Strictly from an offroad perspective . . . .the Jeep has no equal, easily king of the mountain. Even without the lockers.
I applaud you guys for at least using the same tires. Too many comparison videos do not. Question though. Do these vehicles weigh the same? Setting the tire pressures is about percentage of squish. This will change based on weight. The heavier vehicle will need more pressure to have the same percentage of squish. It has been a while but I believe 20% is the target.
+consaka1 True. But being a real world comparison, and not a scientific one, who knows the precise weight of their vehicle and knows the exact 'squish' coefficient at any time? Nobody.
4xOverland I know the precise weight of my vehicle. Well close. It hovers around 8000 lbs. I think a real world comparison can be done having as many variables as possible, the same. I mean you guys used the same tires. Its not that hard to compensate for weight. I'd be real curious the weight of both vehicles. I would think the Landrover would be heavier but I have no real experience with either.
+consaka1 Yeah, I can't tell you how much my Jeep weighs right now, but when I first got it I did, that's when I calculated the amount of pressure it should have on-road and what it should have off-road. Those are the numbers I memorized and use. I would guess that the Rover weighs in at a 500-1000 lbs more than the Jeep, so if you had both at 30 PSI then the Jeep was at a disadvantage....
TheVtxpredatornc That's the best way. Memorizing the right numbers. Curious if both those BFG's were the same size. Jeep looks a bit wider. could be an illusion though because in the picture it is closer.
That was one of the best comparison I have ever come across. And the narration reminds me of Sir Richard Attenborough. I liked it because it shows the characters of the vehicles and the relationship you can expect from each of the vehicle. The comparison is quite a departure from the usual ones of cylinders, torque etc.
Great comparison. I find it a little unfair (bias aside) that the lockers were left out, as you were comparing vehicle to vehicle, not features to features. Not that it really matters because the Jeep won the off road portion anyway, but that small hill climb would have been child's play for any vehicle locked at both ends. As for the gvwr of the jeep, I wouldn't worry about that because if you try to stuff 5 adults in a wrangler, your trip will self destruct before you make it through that first full tank of fuel.
Only thing I would say about brakes going down hill, using brakes on a hill decent on a muddy/slippery hill is very dangerous, one thing I think could have been mentioned , is on the Land Rover,just like my Nissan GQ patrol, the handbrake is on the tailshaft right behind the gearbox, and on descents, especially muddy ones, is that it's much more safer and more effective to use the engine compression with a little handbrake to reduce the engine running on a little, Otherwise it was a fantastic no gimmick review of two very capable 4x4s
I love my JK, but truth is this wasn't a fair comparison as far as the off road element is concerned. Auto V Manual puts the defender at a disadvantage (I own and prefer manual, but fact is auto is better for most off road scenarios, especially those tested here) and probably most importantly, the JK Rubicon 4LO is REALLY low. It's geared for rock crawling, so again the defender is at a disadvantage. Probabaly a more fair comparo would have been a Unlimited sport and the Defender, as the sport doesn't have the diff lock, sway bar disconnect or rock crawling gears of the Rubicon.
+SilverJK I also own a JK manual but sometimes I really hate the manual gear, its faster its better for open roads, but when it comes to off roading the clutch sometimes brakes or burns tbh dude
Great video. I am a Jeep owner and enthusiast, but I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. Cargo and range are the big shortcomings in the Jeep, indeed. In the US, we don't have tracks that are as long as they are in the places you roam, so fuel range is not as big a problem, and neither is resupply. In Australia, however, that would be a huge problem. I'd have to give up some major comforts to carry fuel. I would love to drive and experience a Defender. I've always admired them from afar.
I absolutly love this great non-biased comparison. There is some things I could give food for thought though. Yes, the landrover you could drill holes and add as you wish but that can be done in the Jeep as well. Also, I would say they Jeep has so many after market manufacturers making things you could replace the stock items with and what alot of Overlanders that has Jeep do is to have extensions also on their spare tire holder for alot of stuff. If one is only a 2 person ride what many Jeep overlanders do is to take out the back seat or at least fold it forward which allows for much more space. Cheers from Sweden
Beautiful video, congratulations! I would suggest a comparison between Land Rover Defender and Mercedes G-Klasse because these two models have more in common. Jeep, in my humble opinion, although a climber exactly like LR, rules like a king in a rather distinct league, a more compact one. To me it sounds like comparing a Hansom cab to a wedding carriage. While a Jeep could take you from point A to point B, if you're not paying attention (and before you know it) a Land Rover will drop you at point W... I know a thing or two about Jeep... I own a YJ There are numerous times I've considered the option of buying a LR Defender; I'm in love with its boxy look and its history, but each time I've climbed into one I've remembered why I couldn't take the step: the driver's leg room which is surprisingly poor. I can't explain why on earth LR took the decision to limit the front seats space leaving so much in the back. Brits are tall people, aren't they? Well, I'm also a tall person and the prospect of driving my car with the steering wheel stuck between my knees was a serious turn off. Anyway, keep up with the good work. Cheers
Great Video! Thank you. My wife and I live in our Jeep full time. I was thinking to swap for a little larger vehicle. My wife says I am crazy. You proved her correct. Thank you. The Jeep will continue to be our home. Rock and Roll!
martin conroy unfortunately they have to be 25 years or older, (Unless it was one of the NAS spec ones they made in 1994,1995 and 1997) BTW what country do you live in?
martin conroy And the reason they have to be older than 25 is because then it is considered to be a collectors car and any car is allowed to be imported after 25 years
Ireland, Lots of Defenders here, We didn't use salt on the roads here back then, so they are still in pretty good shape. Defenders are making good money here since they stopped making them. Try Ebay.co.uk here is one listed at the moment www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Defender-90-County-Station-Wagon-USA-Export-4x4-CSW-Off-Road-110-TDi-/232091199007?hash=item3609b6a61f:g:JvgAAOSw4shX2fJX
Enjoyed your video! I own a jeep and watching videos like this is awesome for me to see where people are wheeling and the common love by 4x4 enthusiasts for the outdoors across the world.
+4xOverland yeah the sway bar disconnect only comes on the top of the range models. Crazy option even the land cruiser won't come close off-road when the jeep has something like that and lockers std. Loved the video nice work would love to see more jeep stuff from this channel
+Titu Doan I thought you could disconnect the sway bars on any active diff, they could of done it to the defender if they got out with a spanner but no one got time for that. That's why it's so awesome with a rubicon to just push a button and there disconnected.
+Troy Erich The problem with defenders is that they use radius arm front suspension. It is very restrictive by nature. alot of defender 110's do not even have front sway bars. removing the front sway bar on a solid axle land rover will never yield the results of the jeep wranglers 4 link with panhard rod front suspension. I used to own defenders and now have a Jk Wrangler unlimited. Off road ability is not even comparable. I will never go back.
Great video. Although I understand your reasoning for not engaging the Jeep's locking differential, it's worth pointing out that you're throwing out a great amount of capability by not doing so.
+Mark Green I've almost 40 years driving 4x4s. I understand that. But what would be the point of the Jeep gliding almost effortlessly up the slope while the LR struggled. Not all Wranger style jeeps have lockers. It had to be a fair comparison off road. Any vehicle with lockers is going to be better than one without. Also, with lockers, how good is the Jeep's traction control? We would have no way of telling.
4xOverland No worries, guy. I enjoyed the side-by-side comparison of capabilities. Being in the US, I don't have any experience with Rovers because they're prohibitively expensive here. It was good to watch a compare/contrast between them.
+4xOverland I was originally going to go "Why did you bring a Rubicon out, if you're not going to use the Rubicon features?" as the 5 big things a Rubicon brings to the table vs a standard Wrangler are Tcase low range gearing, Differential gearing, Diff locks, Swaybar disconnect, and tire/rim size. But, you went further in your video as how you were using it to do Wrangler vs Defender, not Rubicon vs specific model of Defender... so I can accept that. Having said that, an answer to your question plus an explanation for something in the video: A Rubicon's traction control when you have lockers on is as good as the driver.... as it's disabled. The reason why the Jeep only has fabric door limiters in lieu of solid components to hold a door in place: Jeep doors are designed to be removed for offroad/enjoyment purposes, just as the entire roof is as well. You just unbolt the retainers on the door pins, unplug the cable for each door if you have power windows, and lift up the strap and poof go the doors. I concur on your mud/water being neigh worthless as a test. There's 3 things that end up mattering in either of those, Driver skill, Line, and traction from the tires... Well, 4, fording depth which is generally easily changed by breather extensions and a snorkle, depending on if you want to scuba-truck or not. I still wouldn't mind a Defender, as I had the pleasure of a "sponsorship" to work with 110's for some time in the US Army. Hard to Impossible to get newer ones in the US though, so I enjoy my Rubicon instead :) Good comparison overall!
The 'David Attenborough' off roading. Great video, thanks. I'm a British Jeep owner living in Australia, I've owned a Land Rover series II so also not biased based on ones nationality.
I’m personally very happy he decided to do the test without the lockers on the Jeep, it really got to show off how good the traction control on the Wrangler is without them. Sure, it basically made this comparison Defender vs Wrangler Sport, but frankly that’s an apples to apples comparison to make. Same tires and same number of doors, too. It demonstrated completely the Wrangler’s dominance in this kind of thing, while showing off some of the Defenders party pieces I didn’t know about. If there’s another objective Wrangler vs Defender comparison video out there, I haven’t seen it. Good vid.
Not being an owner but a lover of the Defender and a "knower" of nothing to do with "off-roading" I enjoyed this immensely.
I loved the fact that the reviewer, an expert in his own right is not a know-it-all and does ask for help where he feels he might not do justice to the review. In terms of balance I felt it was quite fair e.g. leaving out the Jeep's more advance suspension features to better approximate and even out the comparison to that of the older Defender. Lastly, I find it fascinating that at changeover to the owner drivers that one can pick up that they prefer brute force over patient thought out, line-picking negotiation over terrain.
Good work!
PS: I don't think this review was to convince anyone that one religion is better that the other. No one is being converted here, relax guys ;)
Thank you Kholo
Their designs are also built to suit specific tasks. We don't do much overland driving here in the US, and those who do use off road trailers to pull behind the Jeeps. Likewise you wouldn't normally use a Land Rover where we drive our Jeeps either. Most of our off road experiences are in wooded areas or tight mountain trails. The Land Rovers are at home in the deserts where most of them play. Great comparison though, not biased like most videos.
Brendan James Landrovers are not built for the desert mate. They are built to do it all, same as a Landcruiser. Have a look at the Landrover training course in the UK
!
@@Crashryding Land rovers would not be able to follow a rubicon rock crawling. There are no land rovers or range rovers in the king of the hammers competition for example...
I think my next head-on-head test review should be Land Cruiser 76 wagon GLX with lockers, and the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon - with lockers.
+4xOverland or a standard gwagon professional ?
+Tom Solemé Yes. That would be very interesting. But not sure If I can get my hands on one.
+4xOverland i have a G also, and a that price point i think a comparison becomes a bit tenuous. besides, the articulation in a G is terrible. in a devious way, i think you should compare the G v. defender with the lockers off, since its more apples to apples in the overland/payload arena. ive always said the defender was much better at doing everything but carrying me.
+4xOverland
The current Land Cruiser V8 against the Mercedes G, or what else.. I was out (last year) with a guy having a current V8 Land Cruiser - wow this car delivers - wolf in sheep dress we would say. (Being Land Rover addicted, but looking over the soup plate)
Where in South africa was this filmed? or Souther africa?
As an American, I feel you were very fair. No one is significantly better than the other. Both are legendary and have such a loyal following.
Both were legends in the past
... but it is all over now.
Pavle Balenovic how dare you
Land rover = unreliability
@@SwissArmySteve. Chrysler = terrible transmissions + life span.
@@dfcvda My Jeep = Mercedes engine + transmission = reliability
To me their is no winner or loser! Both are winners to me👍 love them both.
the only loser will be the new defender which we all know will be a city defender and not an overlander
Touche'.
@@healthyamerican because most wranglers are not mall crawlers? Common...
Both veicules are great
Jeep nuts and landies nuts are quite annoying
Its like only their veicule is good and all the rest its not worth it.
I agree. I couldn’t pick a favourite
BongRasta No offense but, it's obvious you've never owned one.
I was the same way at 19 yrs old when I bought my first vehicle- a 1978 IH Scout ll.. I was the baddest mutha on the planet with that truck.
Now 40 yrs later and I've got that same feeling with my Jeep.
It's just passion. You heard the man at the beginning , its like a religion. When you buy a vehicle you love it becomes your life's reason
I don't understand why you exclude the Jeep's locking diffs from consideration just because the LR doesn't have them... It doesn't have Hill Descent Control either but you included that. Isn't the presence of lockers on the Jeep an advantage that should be considered?
It's a brit reviewing a US vehicle that's about to take the beloved defender for a run. The hill climb would have been done without a single slip of a wheel with both lockers on.
+dre04mach he's South African.
I have to agree
And as far as saying this Jeep isn't stock those are 31" tires pretty darn standard and just BFG all terrains pretty standard indeed .
Even sports come with 31" Wranglers (Arguably better than the bfg's )
The only real benefits of the rubicon are the lockers and the gear ratios (not sure if that specific model comes with the dana 44's or not most rubicons did)
otherwise get a sport to compare.
Most Slightly modified Jeeps would not spin on this course
Unlocker swaybar
Small lift
35" tires
GG
+sf len maybe in other countries they come with those 31 all terrains ta ko's, but here in the states rubicons only come with the mud terrain, in a 32" tire. the sports come with a pretty much highway tire unless you option up.
+sf len maybe in other countries they come with those 31 all terrains ta ko's, but here in the states rubicons only come with the mud terrain, in a 32" tire. the sports come with a pretty much highway tire unless you option up.
"What single unique character makes their vehicle special to them?"
Jeep: "It provides you a sense of being invincible. Everything is so well thought out and put together that driving it, no matter where you are or where you're going to is never an issue. You just use it and it goes."
Land Rover: "Everywhere where you go and you stop, the guys always come and talk to you and swap stories out."
I think that about sums it up.
I think it's worth saying that this is in this video at 37:20 for those who didn't make it that far. It says a lot in my opinion. Of course, in America, the players could easily be reversed. Park an overland Jeep and people gather.
@@1ode2joy They shouldn't have compared it to a Jeep JK which was a mass market appeal car with 1 million+ sold. They should have compared it to the holy grail of Jeeps, the 2004-2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (long Wheel Base) 2 door Rubicon which has the legendary 4.0L I6 Engine that literally can run reliably without engine oil. Also, every Jeep Wrangler ever made is a Convertible, and you can make it look like a Defender if you want with a Gr8tops Safari Hardtop. Not to mention parts are very cheap for the Jeep. A brand new Engine is only $2000.
@@seanl764 Run reliably without engine oil? Drop the hyperbole it will make you seem more trust worthy
@@chadingram6390 Jeep 4.0l i6 from the 1990's were notorious for having a faulty oil pump after 100k miles. There are numerous people on Jeep forums who ran their 4.0L with a broken oil pump for thousands of miles before they noticed. The 4.0l is a big engine with a robust block that is very understressed and overbuilt. It only outputs 190hp, only bad thing about it is that it runs hot and it overheats easily, which is quite annoying if you are in the bogs and constantly need to be on the gas to get out of sticky situations, but the radiator is pretty straightforward to change out and there are plenty of aftermarket solutions.
@@designexplainedllc346 Someone claiming to drive thousands of miles without oil pressure on an internet forum is a lot different from
"literally can run reliably without engine oil"
Same tires at same pressures. Wow the first channel that does vehicle comparisons correctly in any meaningful way.
There are some discussion as to my nationality as a result of the fact that viewers are accustomed to Brits loving Land Rovers, and Americans loving Jeeps, based purely on their nationality. I assume you think this is so here? Well, think again. I don't care! Really, I don't. BTW. My favourite 4WD is the G-Wagen 461 series and the Land Cruiser, which is what I drive now. And no, I'm not Japanese. Or German. As it happens, born in England to Australian and New Zealand Parents, lived most of my life in Africa, live now in Australia and one of my current favourite places to go overlanding is the USA. Get to know my work and you will understand.
Hmm. But all of that does not make you objective. The interior is "typical American." Every reviewer from the British empire. I just don't know... Nonetheless, liked and subscribed. Bc, you know, good video...
If you aren't going to use the Rubicons' differential locks then you aren't testing it's full capability and any vs comparison is null and void. Just because the Defender doesn't come with that feature that is standard on the Rubicon doesn't mean your must make them equal by handicapping the Rubi.... WHICH IS WHOLLY BIAS. Also listing the Defenders cons and shortcomings as "character" and endearing qualities unique to the Defender is complete hogwash and bias to it's core.... the same can be said of any vehicle. THUMBS DOWN
Does Jeeps have true Diff locks ! They have locking hubs but no lock in or lock out diffs . The Defender used to have both diffs locking in and out . That is why the Defender can go into places a jeep cant go . Plus the Defender has Boxed frame and Jeep dont . The Defender is vary stiff while the Jeep distorts in a twist .
Jeeps have fully boxed frames that are very strong. They have not used locking hubs for decades. The Rubicon model comes with selectable front and rear lockers stock.
Were you high af when you typed that nonsense or are you just woefully misinformed? You typed six sentences and five of them are demonstrably false.
actually, the Jeep has been to places where a Defender has not.
"The Jeep Wrangler has set the Guinness World Record for highest altitude attained by a four-wheeled vehicle after ferrying Matthias Jeschke and his Extrem Events adventure team up Chile's Ojos del Salado, the highest volcano on Earth. The trek from base camp to the world record height ran from March 7 to March 13, when the team's pair of Wrangler Rubicon Unlimiteds checked in at 6,646 meters, or 21,804 feet. "
read for yourself please www.autoblog.com/2007/04/03/jeep-wrangler-gets-high-sets-record/
Andrew, that was a fantastic comparison and review of the two vehicles. I appreciate that you left out bias and let the comparable vehicle features do the talking. Your overlay shots with the turning radius and axle droop were both simple and powerful with their visuals. Well done! I also want to thank you for the driving skill videos you've produced. They've made a big difference in my driving maturity (and my Jeep's undercarriage thanks you). After years of rock crawling I'm just now venturing into overlanding and your TH-cam channel has been a great wealth of information.
I've been driving a Rubicon for two years now and I'll be getting a 2015 Defender in a week thanks to you Andrew. I am certainly proud being able to own two legendary icons.
I'm a Rubicon owner but I want to point out we are not comparing apples to apples when money is the bottom line, (it always is.) The Land Rover is more expensive. However, you hit the nail on the head with the storage space and towing capacity because the Rubicon can not compete at all. I will point out that over-land "touring" or traveling in the Jeep is considerably better with the top and doors off. That makes it worth the difference! :D
I know a lot of students in high school who drove Wranglers and their reliability is TERRIBLE. It was normal to be leaving school once every 8-10 days and I'd see a poor sap with his Jeep's hood open in the rain, trying to get it to start.
Probably some sort of custom engineering gone wrong. The i6 last a long time with no issues. The newer models with the 3.6 is really good too. The 3.8 model was horrible and would hydro-lock (from what I understand.)
Roderick Brehm
Ha ha ha! You're probably at least 50% right since a lot of those had the living crap modified out of them. I'm guessing they did one or two mods, then got addicted and kept going until they screwed up! I used to own a MINI Cooper but was too scared to mod it because it was goddamn complicated. The windows had a mind of their own and kept rolling down without warning every month or two!
Not sure which wranglers you're talking about... but the majority of high school students I doubt are able to afford something newer than a TJ.. and a YJ or TJ is a pretty damn reliable platform, those inline 6 4.2s and 4.0s are pretty much bullet proof. I know of one at 770k+ miles and it's still going strong on the original engine... My first one had 258k, my current one is barely broken in at 170k...
in terms of price, your location plays a big role. Here in the UK defenders are not the expensive but jeep rubicons are, but i'm sure in america it's the other around.
I actually really enjoyed the review. I think it was a fair comparison. I actually really like Laddies. Being from North America I will always own a Jeep, and here is the reason. I actually owned a Land Rover here in North America, The sticker price on one of land rovers new or used is most of the time double to triple the price of a Jeep. The price of parts maintenance and aftermarket parts are few and far between, expensive to the point of not being worth it, I lived it.
Here in Canada the Jeep market is very accessible. It is literally the Mr. Potato Head of off road vehicles for North America. I could build an insane Overland vehicle that would destroy a Landy bare stock for its price here. And if it breaks I can get it repaired much easier and much, much cheaper.
On the other hand if I lived somewhere like the UK or AUS I would most likely own a Landy or Toyota as the availability, parts and repair costs are almost flipped to my above analogy. I think that would have been worth mentioning in the video. A good 4x4 vehicle can be very dependant of where you live.
Cheers and Thanks for the review.
Berserker Television
True! Land Rover parts are (as far as I know the prices) the cheapest of all cars here if you order from the UK.
If you buy i.e. from BMW the Land Rover part prices are on the level of Porsche!
I'm from the UK and would like a Jeep
I approve this message as a. Fellow canadien
4 years late but thats the most intelligent response ive heard to this debate. Im in the uk. LR are cheap and parts are so easily available. We don’t see jeeps. Jeep parts would be harder to find and more expensive.
I enjoyed that you said "this is my opinion, not science, so don't bother me about that". Your video is enjoyable because you are a person sharing your thoughts, we can read the details in a spreadsheet if needed.
Here in the US, off roading is done for fun. Short trips done to challenge driver and machine. So the jeep has great approach and departure angles and not a lot of space. The jeep u compared is the longest one you can get and it has very little space compared to the Landy. Also the springs are designed for the flex and ride height for obstacles not heavy load. The Landy is far better for carrying gear and long overland travel. They sell so many diff versions of attachable rear shelves for the jeep, but that is not the same. In the end, great video and well done comparison. Makes me want to get the clutch fixed on my Pinz 710M and go off road.
The Jeep is 4x4 weapon while the Defender is a 4x4 overland tool, the former a lifestyle offroading toy while the latter a workhorse recreational camping tool. Both have ups and downs.
It’s not a weapon😂
I have had the luck in life to own simultaneously both a 1997 110 and 2010 Jeep Jk Rubicon unlimited. The jeep was bought from the dealer, where the 110 was purchased used and in dire needs for maintenance. The first thing set these vehicles apart was that I found the 110 was like a tractor trying to be a car, while the Jeep was a car trying to be a tractor. Road manners for the jeep were far greater than the 110 on the paved roads, yet the 110 was superior on the offroad. The Utilitarian aspect of the 110 was very appealing for my uses and needs in a four wheel drive vehicle. My needs are simple, my occasional tasks are to get water with my 3/4 ton M 101a1 military trailer. My total payload including trailer is around 3000 lbs. At times I use the set up to harvest firewood in very remote areas. This is not work for a jeep at all. The Jeep would whine while towing my load of water. It actually sounded like it was out of oil as I revved the engine while under tow. The valves just rattled very loudly. Obviously the 110 never showed any weakness in the same circumstances. The 110 that I have has an axle equivalent to Dana 60, where the Jeep has a Dana 44. I eventually installed 33`s on my Jeep with a 2 inch Old Man Emu suspension kit. That turn out to be potentially not good for my C knuckles on the axle, as their design started to bend. My use was not very extreme. I found this to be a very concerning point for me to except seeing as the Rubicon was revered to be the toughest model in the Jeep line up. The overall build quality of the Jeep seemed to be somewhat junk as time went by. The 110 seemed to be much more solid. Less interior creeking noises. Jeeps used to be revered as easy vehicles to work on. I have found that 110 is way easier and cheaper for the diy mechanic. First hand impressions for some will find greater value with the Rubicon over the 110. In the long run, the 110 with a 300 tdi engine has proven to be the greater vehicle for my needs. A true fantasy comparison for this 110 owner would be to have a Gwagen, 70`s series, Rubicon Unlimited with a diesel, and a 110 in the lane way to let things sort itself out.
Greetings from South Africa. Your Defender 110 will then be one of the late 399tdi models since it is a 1997 model. We, as a family, don't own one at the moment but I tend to a gree that the 300tdi is a fantastic DIY engine to work on when problems occur and need to be fixed. The double cab pickup versions of the Defender are my personal favourite as they gave the practicallity of a double cab pickup and I also like to believe they are unique and something different to the traditional station wagon models. I'm not really a td5 fan as it was the era when things were beginning to become more electronic but I do respect the fact that some people enjoy that engine. However, I would buy a Discovery 2 with that engine and a manual transmition mainly for long distance tar road driving and some gravel road driving but not for extreme off-roading as 4xoverland discovered. For off-roading in a Discovery I would take the Discovery 1 wit the 300tdi engine and manual transmition. I also like the 2.4l Pumer engines, although they are more electronically controlled compared to the 300tdi engines. These are my thoughts as a blind person, putting myself in a normal sighted person's shoes.
Great review, really enjoyed seeing these two off-road warriors. Just a note on the HDC on the JK Wrangler. Once activated, the speed can be adjusted up and down while driving simply by changing gears.
1st low - 1.5km/h
2nd low - 4km/h
3rd low - 6.5km/h
4th low - 9 km/h
Drive12 km/h
It’s a great system 👍
I appreciate how you set a fair playing field for both the vehicles. I love the iconic defender and the much loved jeep.
As an American, I would just like to say, after years of off roading, I completely agree with your assessment.
Thank you for your very honest report.
This is one of the best videos iv ever watched in my life,well done Gentlemen.
You missed one big thing about the hand straps in the rear. These are safety devices. If you hang on to something solid and roll the vehicle, your hand is crushed. If you are hanging on to a swingy strap, it just moves around and saves your hand from getting crushed. The Jeep is well thought out.
Oh. That's very interesting. I learned something new today. Thanks for that.
The reason why I did not mention reliability is that it is not something that can be measured. And, as importantly, reliability means different things to different people. So I felt that mentioning it in the revue is pointless.
+4xOverland
AND: fix a Defender issue and fix Jeep issue, that may will become a different challenge somewhere out there - so really 'reliability' is very difficult to put in numbers.
+Gold Rush Reliability is entirely a user experience, and cannot be measured, and is never measured, because there is no measurement that can be attributed to it.
+Gold Rush What you are suggesting is possible in theory, but impossible in practice. How does one drive two vehicles identically? Impossible in this universe. And what is the measurement of reliability? There is none. How often does it break down? Define break down. How much preventative maintenance is needed? What is the measure of preventative maintenance? How does one differentiate preventative maintenance with repairing a component? Impossible.
+Gold Rush No need to insult me. I thought this was a discussion, not a contest. No need to answer
+4xOverland My wife keeps on telling me. . . don't engage if you disagree with YT comments! But I am trying to learn something. But your response is typical of most. Instead of responding with facts, you attack my knowledge and insult me simply because I disagree with you.
If you are going to showcase the hill descent feature of the Rubicon, you need to do the same for the front and rear axle locking differentials, it really makes the gap in off-roading performance that much greater. I'd expect the Rubicon to tackle that obstacle on first try with no slipping.
You're absolutely correct! Now they could get a new Defender against that Rubicon and Rubicon would still be better I've seen it done in real life. Also he said the defendant had better will travel that's not true he probably didn't disconnect the sway bars on the Jeep with the electronic option. Have you seen the later video or he takes a black Rubicon to the sand dunes and you finally admits it's the best off road vehicle in the world
I thought it was a good comparison, and it is a good point about the payload and range. However, the fact that the Jeep had far better off road abilities, even when intentionally crippled, is telling indeed. Your fuel range is zero when you are stuck ;)
Do you know which cripples the jeep? Thats right the hummer 1 will go where jeep cant. I wish jeep had the same suspension.
@@jonbertocchi173 only to a certain extent. I love the humvee, it's my dream truck. But they are massive, to the point of impracticality. Too big for small trails. And they are very difficult to modify. You definitely need lots of expertise to upgrade a humvee. Jeeps are comparatively easy to upgrade
To be fair the h1 is a lot wider than the wrangler
I have never driven off road nor have I owned a 4x4 though I am interested. However, your channel is absolutely riveting. I don't know how I found you but when I did I just keep watching your vids one after the other. You must be doing something right! Many thanks Andrew from an urban dodgem car driver in England.
All too often a 4wd comparison comes down to who has the best tires. Bravo to you guys for solving that first. Great job!!
This is the first time I have watched one of your videos. I liked it. You were fair and knowledgeable. I will be back.
I simply love the iconic Defender, it's my dream SUV!
Regardless of all the old disadvantages, this car gives us the feeling that it is full of itself.
The style, the reliability, the lack of comfort, everything is part of its character.
Reliability...... Let me disagree 😆 I have one it's always at the workshop
@@carandril86 maybe it is your fault, a good Defender with right maintenance is reliable
I found your channel a couple of days ago, and I am really glad I did! Your reviews and advice are really top notch, very balanced and based in reality. Thank you for the information.
I’m a Rubicon owner and I loved this comparison. Unbiased. Love both vehicles.
One of the best reviews on ANY car i've seen. EVER
I currently have a 2 door Jeep JK and it is my 4th Jeep and IMO the biggest weakness is the lack of load capacity and towing ability. That said it is excellent in just about every other area.
Well, FCA listened your pray: the new pick-up Gladiator has lots of load capacity and towing ability. Greetings from Costa Rica.
Toyota still makes a whole line of offroad vehicles that havent changed.. they just dont offer them in the states because barely any market for them.. the troopy.. the classic hilux trucks etc.. all still for sale world wide. Plus they offer base model and diesel Land cruisers that will rival anything by Jeep or Land Rover
Thank you for taking the time to put this together. I can imagine the setting, content, production took some time. I am looking forward to the Cruiser comparison. On a personal note, having seen Japanese, American and British 4x4 work on multiple continents (exploration geologist by profession) I would say that I don't have a clear winner that is always my "go to' vehicle. This relates to support (parts), cost and a multitude of little factors.
Here in Australia the Criuser rules supreme and is hard to beat, yet earlier this year I was in Gabon and good old, ex-UK Army Landrovers driven by the drilling company were the best vehicles on site in the rainy season. On a side note about track though, several years ago one fo the drilling companies put people into F250's in the bush rather than putting three big blokes across the front seat of a HJ Cruiser ute. Great vehciles for getting from Perth to the field site (1000km drive) but no good once they were there. Why? it was not build quality, handling etc but the wider track. So much wider that you always had one wheel well off the 'beaten track' and they picked up stake after stake and had to change tyres continuously. This came to mind when I heard you discussing track.
To each there own and I can put my hand up to personally owning multiple variatiosn of Amercian, British and japanese 4x4's but i will leave you guessing as to which one it is right now.
All the best
Adrian Byass
We who like 4x4's, the more the vehicle is awkward and unhappy on the road the more we enjoy it. We just like to smerk at the idea of a vehicle with comfort and style as the main goal instead of one with getting things done as its purpose. This is not unique to serious 4x4 owners, think low riders or street racers, but these 2 off roaders are great examples of vehicles that gladly say "we don't care" to the creature comforts of most vehicles.
Amazing brilliant video. These guys are great when it comes to offroading. They aren't trying to make you laugh or annoy you with personal bs. They are truly thorough unbiased and objective. I enjoyed the Jeep WK Grand Cherokee review many years ago and enjoyed this one even more. Excellent work!
Jeep and Land Rover owners share the same spirit. The spirt of the outdoor adventures. Always dreaming about the next after market accessories. Always dreaming about the next trip. Life is good !!!
I own a rubicon in Montana, I love my baby but if tomorrow, I was told I had to drive a Defender, I would be just as happy.
And now as 2019 draws to a close, the new Defender 110 is available for roughly the same price as a four-door Rubicon.
What a time to be alive!!!
it annoys me that you excluded the Rubicon's lockers, as they wouldn't be in the defender, but at the same time you said you liked the defender better because it had more space, which the wrangler didn't have. if you are going to include individual features, allow both to use what is unique to them. Just saying
but you can add a locker to defender , you cant add more space in the rear of a wrangler , dimentions wise anyway
@@mudpanther6079 Sure you can add more space in the rubicon, by getting the rubicon unlimited.
I own a Defender but am sure the Wrangler would have the edge in extreme off road with the locking differentials.
@@dre04mach that is a rubicon unlimited lol
As a relatively young person looking to get in to 4x4’ing, I am finding this channel very helpful. Thank you :)
I cant say that I agree enough with this video. I live in Colorado and drive a lifted Wrangler X as my fulltime vehicle. It can go anywhere I could possibly want offroad without breaking a sweat, but take it on Interstate 25 at 75 MPH is one of the more terrifying experiences I've had. It's great to take camping when I'm by myself, throw other people and their stuff into the mix and things get complicated quickly.
I'm an American living in Texas. This is an objective comparison.....and I might say....bloody well done!!!
Interesting, but a poor comparison. You should have used the Jeep Wrangler Sport. It's closer in features. The Rubicon has auto sway bar disconnects and and front and rear lockers standard. Not using them is like sending a fighter into the ring with one hand tied behind his back.
should have compared with an original wrangler, not rubicon mw3
the jeep still won
@@healthyamerican It did, but the point of comparison is to see the difference, not just a winner. If you race a corvette and a golf, you don't use 3/4 throttle in the vette because it wins anyway....
What a beautiful episode! This gentleman looks like he gave it his all :) thank you, Sir. Excellently done! And the off-road teacher gentleman, so calm and peaceful. I could probably accept anything he might teach me simply cuz he is so calm n composed and regal like :)
You did however limit the jeep by not allowing its use of its sway bar disconnect option or the front and rear differential lock feature (I forgot which one u did not allow) for the sake of fair game :)
Altogether, a beautiful watch this video was. Thank you, gentlemen! Johny
I absolutely love my 2014 JKU Sahara... waited along time before finding one I could afford.... it's awesome!!!!
Brilliant video. The roasting of both vehicles cracked me up. Both vehicles are amazing.
That was the most boring off-road trip ever, were the wrangler's sway bars even disconnected? didn't matter I guess no articulation was needed. Loved the part of keeping the lockers off to keep it fair, its not fair at all, wrangler wins!
Exactly what I was thinking.
+flybyav8tor Absolutely right. He left a major benefit to the jeep disabled because the LR didn't have it?! I don't think I'd be doing that in the field so don't do it in a field test.
they had to keep the sway bars connected and differentials unlocked to keep it fair lol.
@@gro_skunk i know, he should have filled up the cargo area of the defender to keep it fair to the jeeps lesser cargo area
The comparison I've been waiting for - well done Andrew!
My questions: 1. You made no reference to the sway bar disconnect of the Rubicon. Was this activated during your test? 2. The Rubicon's transfer case has an extra-low 4:1 ratio. You commented that the speed going down-hill (with descent control on) was perfect. Was this due to the low gearing or the electronic descent control?
this is best 4x4 review I ever saw , Thank you Sir!
As an owner, at one time or another, of numerous Toyotas, and two Jeeps, I can appreciate, without bias, the look of shame and heartbreak at 27:15. Andrew, you're the best.
This is probably the best comparison I have ever seen between the two, and i pretty much agree completely with your conclusions. I passionately love both vehicles so thank you for the great an honest review.
Great video, as an old school 4x4er I have never put much on "electronic" controls like the downhill assist. I now own a 2015 Jeep Wrangler Willies, took it up a track here in Colorado called Red Cone Pass; its has a decent from 12,800 ft that is unbelievable (google it). anyways, i put on the down hill assist thinking it wouldn't help, but why not, and wow. The jeep walked down the hill like it was walking down a country lane.
and meanwhile you're sitting there 1/32nds of an inch off the brake pedal biting your nails wondering if it knows what it's doing... Yep, I was doing the same thing, lol :D
this is one of the best reviews I have ever seen.
so much useful information, love it.
Good work and keep it up.
I love only one (JEEP) but respect and enjoy the heritage of the Defender. The Jeep is part of us Colonist ;) and it's part of the family when your an owner.
Great comparison Andrew. I think John summed it up beautifully. Off roading/adventuring/overlanding is about your relationship with your vehicle. Knowing how your vehicle will react in certain situations combined with the drivers experience and knowledge gets you a result (good or bad). At the end of the day we all love adventures and getting into the outdoors. Whatever horse you choose is your decision, and yours alone! Treat your horse well, learn as you go and have fun!
Mr. White, 1st things 1st.., A Fantastic comparison (IMO), I was most impressed with your efforts to be "unbiased". Additionally, the "Off Road~ Ascent & Descent testing" was the BEST comparison I've seen this far!
My choice is Wrangler Rubi. Yes, I'm also biased toward "American stuff".
Can't wait to get my Rubi. Test drove one recently, and I thought it was a great drive on the road.
Great video. I would have liked to see the Jeep's axle diff locks in action, just to see how big a difference they make, even though the Defender doesn't have them.
Makes a ton when necessary
They are both great!
However I think Land Rover failed in keeping the defender up with the times and hence why there is no more defender. I was honestly thinking about swapping my JK diesel for a defender mid last year. Went to the LR dealership and was treated very poorly there by the sales people. I had to demand their assistance and a test drive after waiting 45 mins circling a defender with nobody coming to see me.
It was then that i truely realised how dated and poor the interior is compared to the Jeep JK. Very cramped to the point where the only way I could steer was with the window open so my elbow could protrude out.
And power wise the Defender couldnt touch the wrangler's VM motori. It felt slow, sluggish and truck like compared to my JK.
Still love the defender but having the Jeep before hand really put me off and thats when i decided to keep the jeep instead of the swap.
The jeep is also much safer in the event of a collision.
Just my 2 cents and I know not everybody will agree with me but thats the awesome nature of being human, We are all different with different likes/dislikes.
Awesome Videos. I really enjoy them!
You can buy all that stuff for defenders too, probably cheaper and undoubtably in more places throughout the world.. Not only that, but with the £10,000 saved by going for a defender 90 over the rubicon (retail cost uk) you could buy axle lockers, multiple sets of tyres, a winch or two, or even a van full of after market goodies if you so desired. The rubicon would then be left well behind off road for the same money.
Jkandl actually hit the nail on the head. The actual difference is refinement, and that is personal preference. Personally i loved having the ol elbow out of the window. I love the air conditioning even more, two fecking flaps with levers!!!! That's great. No carpet? Good, i can clean it out with a hose pipe. Uncomfortable seats, love em, i'm a bit odd like that.
The defender has it's place: farms, expeditions, military, true off roading and passionate enthusiasts.. It's near perfection for such markets... Land Rover don't really target the general public with defenders for good reason, they don't need to. They have other 4x4's targeted at normal folk who want comforts, plus, the defender pretty much dominates the global market for it's particular class of vehicle.. If someone wanted a refined land rover they sell them. The Freelander, Discovery and Range Rover. Various styles and engine sizes available. In other words, people need to stop telling themselves they want a utility vehicle when really they want an SUV. Maybe that way people will stop being disappointed with the trim of a utility 4x4 vehicle. It's not a friggin land cruiser :P
They should stay basic and unrefined.. I'll just give you a quick example of why changing some of the things you mentioned would actually be bad for the defenders intended use and market.
- More ellbow room would require a wider cab. A defender is very well known for getting through narrow spaces (dense woodland). Is it worth losing that for elbow room? Not on a utility off road truck, most true off road has obstructions, it doesn't matter how much elbow room your car has if you have to walk
.
- Refinements need cleaning. Defenders carry dead livestock, feeds, mud, all sorts. Add refinements and you can't hose it down. In fact it would probably be in a terrible state within weeks of hard use.
- Refinements break. The less to break the better for it's intended use.
- A bigger engine isn't really needed. The 200/300 tdi and td5 have enough power to get through deep mud and snow, but not so much to apply too much force on slippery technical sections. They also tow well. Real world off roading isn't mud baths and v8 engines, it's tight, technical and normally slippery sections at a slow pace. Some off roaders actually fit lower powered engines without turbo's by choice.
JkandI i love defender and my dad is probaly going too get one but like you said everybody is diferent
@@queef3057 buy all what stuff? Haha he didn't mention buying anything. Just talked about the overpriced outdated slow Defender
@@queef3057 you must really not like the new Defender the way you are defending how great the old one is for being so under-equipped and every way the new one is so over equipped now hahaha but that's how Brits are at they are way underdone or way overdone they don't find a middle line everything they do seems overdone or underdone
@@ronaldrrootiii6040 lol. Under equipped. It's a utility vehicle it's not about who has the best AC and heated seats. Original defender isn't designed as an suv, it's a work vehicle.
Sorry to break it to you but axles out perform modern air suspension / tc setups.
No serious off roader would disagree. Maybe those who call a muddy track off road would agree with you.
I'll accept I'm wrong when I see them doing the same work a defender has been doing for decades.
The newer discoveries however have already done a real good job of showing users they are not as capable as previous generations. Sure Jeremy Clarkson took one up a hill, but that's nothing compared to what an early axle driven disco can do.
To get a modern style defender or disco to do the same work requires some seriously expensive upgrades. It's been seen time and time again with modern LR getting bellied out in terrain a standard axle driven LR wouldn't. They simply don't deliver fully on their promise.
Not saying I don't like them at all, just I don't see them as the same thing. They are suv now, not utility work vehicles. And that comes at price in cost and capability.
I'm sure they make great cars for doctors but you simply ain't seeing them on farms in high numbers and it is for good reason.
It's probably worth noting that I live in Cumbria UK, a place where farming is a central factor in the landscape and terrain is simply put, pretty damn bad. It's a very wet, muddy and rocky area, it's called the lake District for good reason. I've used both modern and old style 4x4, and have experienced the shortfalls of both in real world use.
I'll say this: it's only the modern ones that I've had to have recovered. They tend to belly out more readily, and as you may or may not know, that can be a real pig to recover as the flat belly creates a lot of suction. Not as bad on the old defender, actually I've not once been truly stuck in one.
There are other advantages too that are very well established. Such as TC based 4x4 systems being reactive and only kicking in after traction is lost. Opposed to an axle driven vehicle where you can lock the drivetrain independently of electronically controlled systems, when you want it.
Hands down the best I've used, as in capability not features, late model 300tdi. Has the best of both worlds. Axle driven, with TC. It's doesn't rely on the TC. I paid £10.5 k for a low mileage model on a galvanised chassis. It'll outlive the new defenders your seeing on the roads now, more capable, fraction of the price. But I use them as work vehicles not family cars.
Prices for old defenders are inflated overseas, maybe something you should consider. I know in the US they pay up to 80k dollars, and that's not a good buy I would agree.
Very different vehicles the old and new. I guarantee you'll not see the modern versions being held onto like the older ones, for good reason.
Im certain if you go to any serious 4x4 forum and ask these questions you'll see I'm correct:
Which is better for off road use: axle driven or modern TC based systems
(The answer is axle driven)
Which is better for off road use: chassis or monocoque
(The answer is chassis)
Andrew S (4xOverland), just wanted to say thank you for such a lovely channel. I am very glad that I stumbled upon it on while doing research on Jeeps and trying to learn about mine. Its such a refreshing thing to see someone give thoughtful, unbiased commentary and also just have interesting things to say and show us in general. Thanks again.
Im glad you left the axles open. Really showcased how well the suspension keeps even pressure on both wheels. Lockers woulda hid that and everyone would have said no duh it was better it was locked.
I love my Jeep for it's flexibility...not only the range of travel for the front and rear axles...but for the front and rear lockers... I get to choose if I wan't front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, all wheel drive or limited slip, everyday stuff....either way, I get to decide.
The "front wheel drive" lever on mine must have fallen off.
pcosta816
You know, you are right. I can lock the front but the rear stays limited slip, so it's not really front wheel drive...but most of the traction comes from then front in that case.
+pcosta816 ya,mine didnt have that either
Very good review. I own a modified Unlimited Rubicon. Do a lot of rock climbing with it. Always wondered why I saw the Land Rovers and never Jeeps in the safari and expedition videos. Now I know. I must add that with the rear seats folded down and externally - mounted fuel tanks, the Jeep might be able to match the LR in range and capacity. Where the LR must follow a trail, the slightly modified Jeep can blaze its own trails and go where most other 4x4's can't.
Great video! IMO the Jeep proved to be superior in ability overall. I appreciate the character of the vehicles, but would go for the Jeep.
The big thing for me is that the 110 is not a 110 i own one that is an old military spec and it has dif lock but no back seats. 2 rows of bench seats instead.
Great video. So refreshing to see people do a comparison without bias and egos and immaturity.
I've watched this video a few times now! I used to own a jeep and now own a puma Defender! Love every bit of it!
I thought this was a great review, though I'd have liked to see more testing, but I thought your comparison was spot on and for anyone mentioning any bias because you're british... You were in favour of the american vehicle in terms of performance, which is totally against the grain and I think proves in this situation you were being true and honest.
Surprisingly, watching the two vehicles drive down the road, I think the Jeep looks better. I always thought the Defender was awesome, but I actually like the Jeep more. Humble opinion.
When I lived in the UK I owned a Land Rover Series 3, but always wanted a Jeep, now I live in the USA and own a CJ5 Jeep the one I lusted after as a teenager, I find myself hankering after a Land Rover, I think that's because they are both so iconic and have both been vehicles that influenced me so much in my youth. I guess having one of each would be the answer but Defender prices are outrageous here in the states some are in the G Wagen level, so I doubt I will ever own another and I console myself with memories of the negatives of the LR's to counter my heart that just wants one.
Fair testing. But the Jeep's locking-diff would give it a big advantage. What about price, difference?
Excellent comparison. Thank you.
The best unbiased vehicle comparison made to date.
*Maybe I’ve watched this video more times then I should have.
Amazing video, Andrew. That superimposed video of the axle articulation was fantastic. Thank you.
How could a Jeep fan not like the Land Rover...How could a Land Rover fan not like the Jeep.
Should have compared the Defender to a Jeep Cherokee XJ. They'd compare more easily and directly
+Se7enAte Perhaps. In my markets in Australia, UK and South Africa, the Defender and Wrangler are bought by the same kind of people and used in similar ways. Our next will be Rubicon vs Cruiser FJ. What do you think?
+Se7enAte But production of the XJ stopped 15 years ago whereas the Defender is still in production. (for the next few months, or so.) I don't understand where you come from - the two were never comparable. The Wrangler Unlimited (JKU), Toyota 76 wagon and perhaps Mercedes Gelandewagen do compete in a similar market - tough professional grade 4x4s.
+4xOverland It might be fun but is the FJ not also to be discontinued soon? (No longer available in the US)
Jimbob Jones The XJs stopped production a while ago but they are very similar to the defender in their simplicity and even looks (not that looks matter for off road capabilities). Wranglers, especially rubicons, are made more for rock crawling whereas the defender and cherokee are more for lighter off-roading from the factory.
4xOverland I guess this comparison makes more sense from your perspective. Here in the states, Wranglers are used for more extreme situations. I'd love to see an FJ vs. Rubicon though since Toyota tries to compete with Jeep in that market
The filming and narration of these videos reminds me of a David Attenborough special...except with vehicles.
Very honest and fair review. Loved it! And yes, would love to see one using all the vehicle capabilities (lockers). Thank you for putting this together!
Presently, I m using Disco1 V8 and Jeep TJ Sport. I agree with 4xoverland from this video. Jeep is better for daily use and mud driving while I mostly drive D1 for onverland & expedition. Both are giving different taste and I love both.
jeeps are more capable than just driving through mud. have you never seen them rock crawl or climb a hill nearly straight up
ive owned a few jeeps, and now i am driving a Rover, and i will give it to the Rover hands down with out comparison the Rover is 1000times better in the snow!!! every jeep ive ever owned was sketchy at best in the snow, the Rover i had never had a single issue!!
Saint Sugar Britches drives a Disco. HaHaHa
i live in the 2nd coldest city in the world. jeeps everywhere,, not 1 land rover.they only come out when the snow is gone .tonight it's a balmy -43..plugged in (block heater) with an inline heater (cooling) an extra pan heater (oil pan) a battery blanket,and a fuel heater, the jeep will start easier with just a block heater.
Both great vehicles, both LEGENDARY. Both can get the job done with unique strengths and weaknesses. A bit of a let down the Jeep had to be handicapped without the use of its lockers, to make it fair to the Rover. Strictly from an offroad perspective . . . .the Jeep has no equal, easily king of the mountain. Even without the lockers.
I applaud you guys for at least using the same tires. Too many comparison videos do not. Question though. Do these vehicles weigh the same? Setting the tire pressures is about percentage of squish. This will change based on weight. The heavier vehicle will need more pressure to have the same percentage of squish. It has been a while but I believe 20% is the target.
+consaka1 True. But being a real world comparison, and not a scientific one, who knows the precise weight of their vehicle and knows the exact 'squish' coefficient at any time? Nobody.
4xOverland I know the precise weight of my vehicle. Well close. It hovers around 8000 lbs.
I think a real world comparison can be done having as many variables as possible, the same. I mean you guys used the same tires. Its not that hard to compensate for weight. I'd be real curious the weight of both vehicles. I would think the Landrover would be heavier but I have no real experience with either.
+consaka1 Yeah, I can't tell you how much my Jeep weighs right now, but when I first got it I did, that's when I calculated the amount of pressure it should have on-road and what it should have off-road. Those are the numbers I memorized and use. I would guess that the Rover weighs in at a 500-1000 lbs more than the Jeep, so if you had both at 30 PSI then the Jeep was at a disadvantage....
TheVtxpredatornc That's the best way. Memorizing the right numbers. Curious if both those BFG's were the same size. Jeep looks a bit wider. could be an illusion though because in the picture it is closer.
+consaka1 Really? a bloody F150 weighs less then that.
As a Jeep owner this is an exceptional video. Thank you for sharing.
Well, according to experts, you got the best off-road vehicle in the world and best-selling 4x4 SUV in the US. Cheers from Costa Rica.
That was one of the best comparison I have ever come across. And the narration reminds me of Sir Richard Attenborough. I liked it because it shows the characters of the vehicles and the relationship you can expect from each of the vehicle. The comparison is quite a departure from the usual ones of cylinders, torque etc.
Great comparison. I find it a little unfair (bias aside) that the lockers were left out, as you were comparing vehicle to vehicle, not features to features. Not that it really matters because the Jeep won the off road portion anyway, but that small hill climb would have been child's play for any vehicle locked at both ends. As for the gvwr of the jeep, I wouldn't worry about that because if you try to stuff 5 adults in a wrangler, your trip will self destruct before you make it through that first full tank of fuel.
davejeep yep especially since even a Rubicon Wrangler is less expensive than a base Defender, so not testing it with lockers is not fair.
Only thing I would say about brakes going down hill, using brakes on a hill decent on a muddy/slippery hill is very dangerous, one thing I think could have been mentioned , is on the Land Rover,just like my Nissan GQ patrol, the handbrake is on the tailshaft right behind the gearbox, and on descents, especially muddy ones, is that it's much more safer and more effective to use the engine compression with a little handbrake to reduce the engine running on a little,
Otherwise it was a fantastic no gimmick review of two very capable 4x4s
Thanks for the tip !
Great tip. On slippery down hill I usually engage rear lockers on my defender. That helps to keep the truck aliened.
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I love my JK, but truth is this wasn't a fair comparison as far as the off road element is concerned. Auto V Manual puts the defender at a disadvantage (I own and prefer manual, but fact is auto is better for most off road scenarios, especially those tested here) and probably most importantly, the JK Rubicon 4LO is REALLY low. It's geared for rock crawling, so again the defender is at a disadvantage. Probabaly a more fair comparo would have been a Unlimited sport and the Defender, as the sport doesn't have the diff lock, sway bar disconnect or rock crawling gears of the Rubicon.
+SilverJK I also own a JK manual but sometimes I really hate the manual gear, its faster its better for open roads, but when it comes to off roading the clutch sometimes brakes or burns tbh dude
Great video. I am a Jeep owner and enthusiast, but I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. Cargo and range are the big shortcomings in the Jeep, indeed. In the US, we don't have tracks that are as long as they are in the places you roam, so fuel range is not as big a problem, and neither is resupply. In Australia, however, that would be a huge problem. I'd have to give up some major comforts to carry fuel. I would love to drive and experience a Defender. I've always admired them from afar.
I absolutly love this great non-biased comparison.
There is some things I could give food for thought though.
Yes, the landrover you could drill holes and add as you wish but that can be done in the Jeep as well. Also, I would say they Jeep has so many after market manufacturers making things you could replace the stock items with and what alot of Overlanders that has Jeep do is to have extensions also on their spare tire holder for alot of stuff.
If one is only a 2 person ride what many Jeep overlanders do is to take out the back seat or at least fold it forward which allows for much more space.
Cheers from Sweden
Beautiful video, congratulations! I would suggest a comparison between Land Rover Defender and Mercedes G-Klasse because these two models have more in common. Jeep, in my humble opinion, although a climber exactly like LR, rules like a king in a rather distinct league, a more compact one. To me it sounds like comparing a Hansom cab to a wedding carriage. While a Jeep could take you from point A to point B, if you're not paying attention (and before you know it) a Land Rover will drop you at point W... I know a thing or two about Jeep... I own a YJ
There are numerous times I've considered the option of buying a LR Defender; I'm in love with its boxy look and its history, but each time I've climbed into one I've remembered why I couldn't take the step: the driver's leg room which is surprisingly poor. I can't explain why on earth LR took the decision to limit the front seats space leaving so much in the back. Brits are tall people, aren't they? Well, I'm also a tall person and the prospect of driving my car with the steering wheel stuck between my knees was a serious turn off.
Anyway, keep up with the good work. Cheers
stick with the jeeps..the defenders look fun but they are not in the same league as a rubicon
This test should be the way all off road reviews should be done
By intentionally hamstringing one vehicle? Other than that tho, it was pretty good.
This is super interesting! really! I loved it and going to watch another "defender vs ... "
Great Video! Thank you. My wife and I live in our Jeep full time. I was thinking to swap for a little larger vehicle. My wife says I am crazy. You proved her correct. Thank you. The Jeep will continue to be our home. Rock and Roll!
This is by far, the best comparison video I have seen so far … nice job sir … 👍
Greetings from Germany everybody 👋
Wish they sold the defender in the USA. Jeep is okay, but the defender would be cool and cheaper than the range rovers and stuff they sell here.
i know man, im trying to get my hands on a 1989 defender
What year are allowed in the US? I have a 2006 TD5 Defender, 500,000 km on it and going strong
martin conroy unfortunately they have to be 25 years or older, (Unless it was one of the NAS spec ones they made in 1994,1995 and 1997) BTW what country do you live in?
martin conroy And the reason they have to be older than 25 is because then it is considered to be a collectors car and any car is allowed to be imported after 25 years
Ireland, Lots of Defenders here, We didn't use salt on the roads here back then, so they are still in pretty good shape. Defenders are making good money here since they stopped making them. Try Ebay.co.uk here is one listed at the moment www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Defender-90-County-Station-Wagon-USA-Export-4x4-CSW-Off-Road-110-TDi-/232091199007?hash=item3609b6a61f:g:JvgAAOSw4shX2fJX
It's not an SUV, it's a Jeep...
Chrysler.
@@dfcvda Well, Fiat-Chrysler Automobiles makes the best off-roaders in the industry. Period. Greetings from Costa Rica.
Using lockers and sway bar disconnect would have made it no contest. Jeep wins hands down.
Jeeps fall apart like legos.
At last, a well-informed vehicle analysis. Very well presented - thank-you for uploading.
Enjoyed your video! I own a jeep and watching videos like this is awesome for me to see where people are wheeling and the common love by 4x4 enthusiasts for the outdoors across the world.
Andrew, did you use the sway-bar disconnect on the Jeep?
+Martin sohlberg Yes.
+4xOverland yeah the sway bar disconnect only comes on the top of the range models. Crazy option even the land cruiser won't come close off-road when the jeep has something like that and lockers std. Loved the video nice work would love to see more jeep stuff from this channel
+Troy Erich Sway bar disconnects are standard on all JKs. (It's the electronic swaybar disconnect that comes with a Rubicon)
+Titu Doan I thought you could disconnect the sway bars on any active diff, they could of done it to the defender if they got out with a spanner but no one got time for that. That's why it's so awesome with a rubicon to just push a button and there disconnected.
+Troy Erich The problem with defenders is that they use radius arm front suspension. It is very restrictive by nature. alot of defender 110's do not even have front sway bars. removing the front sway bar on a solid axle land rover will never yield the results of the jeep wranglers 4 link with panhard rod front suspension. I used to own defenders and now have a Jk Wrangler unlimited. Off road ability is not even comparable. I will never go back.
Great video. Although I understand your reasoning for not engaging the Jeep's locking differential, it's worth pointing out that you're throwing out a great amount of capability by not doing so.
+Mark Green I've almost 40 years driving 4x4s. I understand that. But what would be the point of the Jeep gliding almost effortlessly up the slope while the LR struggled. Not all Wranger style jeeps have lockers. It had to be a fair comparison off road. Any vehicle with lockers is going to be better than one without. Also, with lockers, how good is the Jeep's traction control? We would have no way of telling.
+4xOverland
Hello, I am using a small Daihatsu old soft top jeep . I want to fix a hood rack . Can you give me an Idea please. anandasene@gmail.com
4xOverland No worries, guy. I enjoyed the side-by-side comparison of capabilities. Being in the US, I don't have any experience with Rovers because they're prohibitively expensive here. It was good to watch a compare/contrast between them.
+Ananda Seneviratne I am only able to reply to questions to 4xOverland.com subscribers and Patreon supporters. Sorry.
+4xOverland I was originally going to go "Why did you bring a Rubicon out, if you're not going to use the Rubicon features?" as the 5 big things a Rubicon brings to the table vs a standard Wrangler are Tcase low range gearing, Differential gearing, Diff locks, Swaybar disconnect, and tire/rim size. But, you went further in your video as how you were using it to do Wrangler vs Defender, not Rubicon vs specific model of Defender... so I can accept that.
Having said that, an answer to your question plus an explanation for something in the video:
A Rubicon's traction control when you have lockers on is as good as the driver.... as it's disabled.
The reason why the Jeep only has fabric door limiters in lieu of solid components to hold a door in place: Jeep doors are designed to be removed for offroad/enjoyment purposes, just as the entire roof is as well. You just unbolt the retainers on the door pins, unplug the cable for each door if you have power windows, and lift up the strap and poof go the doors.
I concur on your mud/water being neigh worthless as a test. There's 3 things that end up mattering in either of those, Driver skill, Line, and traction from the tires... Well, 4, fording depth which is generally easily changed by breather extensions and a snorkle, depending on if you want to scuba-truck or not.
I still wouldn't mind a Defender, as I had the pleasure of a "sponsorship" to work with 110's for some time in the US Army. Hard to Impossible to get newer ones in the US though, so I enjoy my Rubicon instead :) Good comparison overall!
all we learned today. bfg ko's are antiquated. and open diff suck
The 'David Attenborough' off roading. Great video, thanks. I'm a British Jeep owner living in Australia, I've owned a Land Rover series II so also not biased based on ones nationality.
I’m personally very happy he decided to do the test without the lockers on the Jeep, it really got to show off how good the traction control on the Wrangler is without them. Sure, it basically made this comparison Defender vs Wrangler Sport, but frankly that’s an apples to apples comparison to make. Same tires and same number of doors, too. It demonstrated completely the Wrangler’s dominance in this kind of thing, while showing off some of the Defenders party pieces I didn’t know about.
If there’s another objective Wrangler vs Defender comparison video out there, I haven’t seen it. Good vid.