Road Test Time! Finally, I get to drive my '69 Citroën DS! How does it do? Why is it still leaking?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2023
- After months of getting parts and installing them in a system that is foreign to most mechanics the CAR WIZARD 🧙♂️ finally has his 1969 Citroën DS road worthy, sort of! Why is it still leaking and from where?
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CITROËN VIDEO #1: • OOH LA LA, I bought Ho...
CITROËN VIDEO #2: • My '69 Citroën DS can ...
CITROËN VIDEO #3: • $4K in parts finally a...
CITROËN VIDEO #4: • What's up with the '69...
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The button that causes bulbs to light up is a test button to confirm the bulbs work. There is a big STOP bulb there you should pay attention to. It comes on with hydraulic failure. Of course the bulb needs to work for it to illuminate.
The spoke should be where it is so it does not impale you in an accident.
Yes, I think the spoke is supposed to be 7 o'clock so it's OK
Steering wheel spoke is correct. In accident it guides the driver towards center of car.
The Citroen was used as a camera car to film horse racing because it is almost perfectly stable.
@@allareasindex7984 Yes correct. The safari (wagon) used by film & tv crew on the roof. There is a vid somewhere comparing the set up to a regular car, footage from the regular car was deemed un watchable.
@@russcattell955i Top Gear did a test with a BMW wagon and the DS Safari wagon
Utterly superb car. The height adjustable suspension means that you have kind of got a vehicle with both SUV Autobahn and rally car credentials. Indeed back in 1972 this car won the World cup rally that crossed Europe Africa the Sahara even the Targa Florio. And finished in Germany. The Citreon not only just won beating a Stella list of competitors it slaughtered them with a brilliant crew and extreme reliability. It's a great story. Great effort Wizard.
The Citroen DS 21driven by Henri Toivonen won the Monte Carlo rally but only because the Mini Coopers were disqualified.
should put a whoopie cushion on it so that when you lower it...🤣🤣🤣🤣
So glad you're still committed to this car, I guarantee it'll be one of your favourites when it's all up together.
For now, it will be gone in a year. :(
@@danr1920 It will be gone in next 2 videos :D
@@mareks26I would bet on it.
@@danr1920 Maybe it could become yours. :)
@@mareks26
I bet not!
I attended the 50 anniversary of Citroen DS back in 2005, and that was great fun. I used to be a member of a Citroen DS club, and I know the history and pros and cons of the Citroen DS quite well. I also know a French Citroen specialist who knows the original Citroen DS inside out, but he speaks very little English. Financial problems stopped the Citroen DS from getting the engine it was supposed to have and deserved: a naturally aspirated 6 cylinder engine. Some people changed the engine in the Citroen DS for the engine used in the Citroen CX GT version. A lot of work, but you can do it. Rust is the big enemy of most Citroen DS`s , so they are prime candidates for a complete restoration, and a German company used to do that. Two of the spheres in the Citroen DS are harder to reach than the others, but you can change their location to a degree so you can later reach them with less work. Note that the bottom chassis of the Citroen DS is known to have a specific weakness that will crack with time, but you can bolt a piece of metall to strengthen that part/spot so it will not crack. Once you have a Citroen DS back to its original ride quality you can truly appreciate its " magic carpet ride." I love the look of Citroen DS, and if you theoretically produced it again I would keep the keep its outer design 99,99% as it is, and then with a new engine and the same hydropneumatic suspension. With some tweaks it is not hard to service said a mechanic, just different. The single spoke steering wheel`s natural position is to have the spoke facing straight down in the middle. The Citroen DS was designed so the engine would be dragged down under the car in the event of crash to protect the passengers. The PSA group bought Citroen back in 1974, and I wish it had been Renault instead because the PSA group never fully appreciated Citroen, and nor did they act to make Citroen France` answer to Mercedes in terms of quality which Citroen could easily have become with proper management. The history of the Citroen DS is very interesting, but I will end my rant here!😃
These DS videos never get old. What a unique ride. Thank you for saving it!
In what sense is he "saving it"? Plenty of people would have bought this car and driven it. It's in generally excellent condition with typical items required to be replaced and serviced. He didn't save it from being junked.
The button closest to the right of the speedometer is to check if you're main hydraulic warning light is working which you're ds does. You also have a crown wheel and pinion grind in your manual transmission it's nothing to worry about I have driven many ds with the same issue just replace the gear oil and put a quality additive as well. Finally you have a absolutely beautiful ds hold on to her they are bringing good dollars ( FINALLY) for a good example just like yours and only going up on price! ENJOY ! CHEERS FROM DOWN UNDER AUSTRALIA 🇦🇺
A not-rusty DS is a rare thing. Kudos to you for bringing this goddess back to life, so people can know that things can be different and still ok.
Put another way: “Vive la difference”
It's a hipster car and that's OK.
You rightly called it goddess. In French DS is pronounced the same as "déesse" which is the French word for "goddess". And that's what it was, a godly car from the old days when automobiles still had style and elegance. Unlike in this modern world of ugly automobile clones in which buying a new car has become as exciting as replacing your old fridge.
11:05 It's correctly positioned as it is. It's actually designed to "guide" the driver's body towards the interior of the car in a crash.
I guess in depends on the state of your local roads. Here in Scotland the roads are poor, but my cars never bottomed out on the low setting.
The steering wheel looks right to me. There is a cam, spring, and roller on the steering column close to the steering rack that you will see when you take out the steering rack. That cam gives the steering a centering feel, and it can help you verify that the steering wheel is in the right place.
@@martitapere6938 that comment before yours was about the steering wheel, but yours appear to be about the suspension? if it is, then you never actually had a Citroen with hydropneumatic suspension, on the Low settign it is literally bottomed out on the bump stops.
@@martitapere6938 I would want to add that the car on the lowest setting is dangerous to drive, because the hydraulic system is no longer being pressurized. You can brake for a while with the residual pressure in the system, but all of a sudden , no brakes. The two extreme setting are for changing tires, all the way up to position the jack, all the way down to settle the car in the jacked , tire up position, On my car the rim was designed so that it interfaced with an expanding hub, so that the wheel could be easily removed with just one bolt and the hex wrench tool they provided.
These cars were designed before steel belted tires, so changing tires was more common back then. I did use the highest setting to screw around and cross a few deep rain puddles for fun. The spare tire was stored in front of the radiator, as an additional safety device, but it wasn't real popular when the location cooked your spare.
the steering wheel is also designed so that the rim will snap off the single spoke in case of a bad accident.
Dont drive it off road on the high suspension setting! This setting is just for service work . Not for any road driving.. great to see you do another video on it
The ds23 Pallas is maybe one of my favorite looking classic cars. They definitely are not performance but all style.
I'm stoked that the car wizard is keeping this iconic car.
Back when we were living in Europe we drove several and were always shocked at how smooth they were. This was in 1970-71 so they were new or almost new and all of them had an odd smell, but would do 100 mph on the autobahn if you had the time. They were one odd duck for sure.
Such a unique and fun car. So quirky and odd. I wouldn't want to do the upkeep on one, but seeing this one come back to life on your channel is pretty cool. Take care guys.
speaking of upkeep, he won't be laughing when he goes in to replace that front universal joint and discovers the securing nut is on with the specified 10,000 lbs of torque. Most Citroen garages kept the needed big long long loosening wrench stored hanging on the side wall, as kind of a badge of credibility. If you didn't have one of those unique spanners, you weren't a real Citroen mechanic.
Can no one describe a Citroen without saying 'quirky'!
@@roberttaylor7462 lol
The button is simply a “press to test” button for the light. Just to make sure the bulb is not burned out. There is no level sensor in the hydraulic tank, so pressing it just lights up the bulb. Later years of DS had the same thing.
My ‘69 VW Beetle had the same function. The NHTSA-mandated brake warning light was both a light and a spring-loaded button… which one pressed to verify that the warning light was working… This way, you could be sure that, after you wrapped the car around a tree following a brake failure, the light would come on.🤨
As the Citroeniste says, the button is just to see if the lights are funkionne.
@@MoGreazy Hopefully the brake light would illuminate before the tree had moved itself in to your pathway.
@@georgebettiol8338 Hopefully is the word! … with a clapped-out Beetle half-eaten by Michigan Metal Moss!
Pretty much every citroen had that light, my BX has it too and is a late 80s car
The spoke in the wheel is in the right place . That is a safety feature .
I've been watching these Citroen videos with great interest. Back in 1971, my Dad bought a Citroen DS21 Pallas - the luxury model. He traded in his Oldsmobile 98 for it, after the Cit dealer took him across a cornfield at 40 mph! We lived in a small town in rural PA, so you can imagine how strange a Citroen was there! BTW, if you think "4 on the tree" is strange, look up "Citromatic" - it's a semi-automatic transmission where the hydraulic system works the clutch engagement for you when you shift!
Dad's got rusty and sat, garaged, for at least 25 years. My niece inherited it, and after a 3+ year restoration process, it's almost back to its original glory!
Enjoy the Cit. Over 65 years since it was introduced, and it's STILL one of the most advanced cars ever built.
The suspension was so smooth on the DS that the BBC Television company used these trackside to live broadcast horse racing . And that was back in the days of black and white television. a roof rack witb a massive television camera on a heavy tripod and operator in a standing position would pace the horses around the course The images were smooth enough to be broadcast live and tha was all before computers and image stabilisation.
It truly is an amazing car!
Congrats! I had a '64 DS 19 and a 1967 ID 19 Citroen from 1970- 73, while in high school and college. The '67 was single headlight, medium blue paint, just like yours.
My brother still has his 1970 Citroen, which he had totally rebiult last year, in Maryland. One year I drove in it and also in a rented Lincoln town car, side by side. Although the Lincoln was a very comfortable car, my brother's Citroen rode many times softer, and the big Leather seats are the most comfortable place to be on this high gravity planet. You feel weightless siting in them. Thanks Brother M. for keeping the faith, as I drive a reliable Toyota Corolla that rides as soft as a cement truck as I can't afford parts on my social security income.
So nice to see your all still enjoying the cars and the sucess you have from your channel etc, so happy for you all 😊
These cars are so cool. Thanks for taking the effort to preserve it for future enjoyment!
It does not surprise me that you own a DS....You are one of the most respected mechanic TH-camrs....My favourite car is the '74 DS Pallas (apart from my LS400)...one day I will own one. It's not strange...it's just French!!!
Congratulations to you Wizard.
Cheers from Sunny Australia.
Such a cool, quirky classic car! Keeping something like this is truly a labor of love. I can't wait to see a vid of you and the Mrs. showing it off at a car show. You'll get a lot of attention and questions, for sure.
Blue balls. A new comedian in the house.
Yeah, because they are green 😉
Green balls
Original with cornering Headlight.
Think they we're Not allowed in the
US ( Sealed beam) .☹️
All his new balls to extend his rods.
🤣🤣 Yes, actually green! My Bentley has the same system... we saved a few bucks by using the Citroën spheres (they're the same). But once fixed, what a heavenly ride.
Thanks for doing this series. I'm a big fan of the DS and I'm enjoying it enormously.
I really appreciate you taking this one on. These cars are so innovative. I had a Canadian relative who owned one of these "back in the day", and I loved it!! Looking forward to the next video on this one.
Back then there was a thing called THINKING in engineering. Now it's lazy computers.
DS steering racks are unfortunately a complicated affair, not to replace, but to find the right one. You NEED to get one that's not only refurbished (seals wize), but where the hydraulic pistons were replaced/rectified. Otherwise the same problem will emerge again in a year. Better ask the seller before buying
It has an unusual steering rack indeed but it works fine and there are seldom problems.
Only one firm renew the steering racks correctly. Citrotech in the netherlands
@@SuperLifemission there is a single guy in Poland (very passionate mechanic, has been working on this vehicles for 30+ years and stockpiles parts) that can do it aswell, the man doesn't have a website or channel though.
Citrotech, as mentioned.
In reality not all that complicated:) With a couple of specialized tools - which one can fabricate without to much trouble - are not all that hard to reseal. As to what Citrotech does, and they tend to make it sound difficult, is renewing the two control pistons in the rotating union. And if one does not have a centerless grinder, which most well equipped machine shops have, those little pistons cannot be made with the required precision.
I had a big job with the hydraulic system. The small tubular seals are not cheap and there are lots of them. The original lines are 4.5mm but I replaced them with 3/16" lines and drilled the nuts out to 5mm. I had to make a special tool to crimp the ends of the lines but that saved hundreds of dollars.
Those end seals are easy to make using readily availabe tubing from suppliers such as McMaster-Carr. They will be just a wee bit bigger in OD than original, but lubricaing and instering them first and then the pipe you will have no problems. A lot of us have been doing that for eons.
Seeing that car brings back a lot of memories my mother drove one in 1959. I remember her starting it up and waiting for it to rise. It had a smooth ride and no drive shaft hump. Grade school was a little tough my friends thought it was the ugliest car they had ever seen. My father bought it I Boston, MA where they had a good dealer. We moved to Hamden, CT in 1961 where there were no dealerships or qualified mechanics so when the clutch burned out in 1970 my father sold it to a scrap yard and purchased a used 1962 Chevy Impala convertible. Made a big difference in my social circles. I enjoyed this series. Thank You, Ric
awesome as always.thanks for sharing and taking us along
The heights on the suspension are low (maintenance only), normal, high (low speed) & high (maintenance only). The button operates a test lamp to make sure your hydraulic failure light is working & the spoke for the wheel is supposed to be off centre as it represents half a chevron (from the logo). There was a D super 5 available which has a manual box with five on the tree whereas an early DS has a semi automatic box so your one's more in line with a basic ID
You and Rob Murdoch should get together and document the engineering in this car. You'll be doing the automotive world a sterling service if you do. Your combined expertise, having been "hands on" with repairing it, will be *invaluable* in the future.
My dad bought a used 68 ? sedan after several months, he traded it in for a new ds 21 station wagon. We lived in Az at the time and he did take it off road (a lot (every week end of 3 years)). It was a great car service, and parts were an issue. Over the years, I have thought about getting one to restore. But time / money have never come together at the same time. I enjoy you showing a lot and the DS has brought back many memories. Thank you
This series has been awesome!
Well done wizard, she is coming along nicely! I noticed you have the fuel filter on the suction line and not on the pressure side of the pump. My DS had the same and was causing percolating problems when hot. Also my carby was misbehaving in the same manner. Turned out to be a lead ball missing in a cavity sucking in false air. Keep up the good work :)
Thank you, Wizard, for the DS Citroen Report!
Thanks as well to Rob Murdoch for support and
advice.
You're a straight shooter, Wiz, and it's one of the
best things about both you and this site.
Dan in Bangor
The steering spoke is in the right place. That was suppose to protect you in a crash by pushing you to the center. Good memories, my uncle had one in Spain when they were new a 1961 model. I remember how unique it was and the smooth ride. I think it was the most advance car of its time. Great video and thank you for rescuing it.
Spent a lot of my childhood in hydraulic Citröens; my grandfather invited André Citröen to build them in Slough, UK. Still as intrigued by them now as ever :)
My Father had a 1973 DS Super 5 from new in the UK . His had a twin choke carb (dual barrel ) . The brake "pedal" was a rubber button on the floor, if you pushed to hard you would slide forward on the seat causing more pressure on the brake and you would come to a shuddering halt. Took me a while to get used to it. Love the vids.
Oh yes, I remember that rubber button. I always got a good laugh when the cops ( who would usually write fines for excessive brake pedal movement ) didn't know what to do.
The 'sliding' can be caused by not using seat/shoulder safety belt 😀
You need to get some euro-spec headlights... Those sealed beams are awful.
Euro-spec headlights would not be legal in USA, although such an old car may be exempt from US safety inspections.
@@houseofno sealed beam is no longer required
Every fool is running Amazon led bulbs that throw light everywhere except down the road
They would be legal now that sealed beams aren't a thing anymore.
@wallacegrommet9343
Most of the headlight offenders are because the lights are not aimed properly. So many pickups are raised and have not had their head lights realigned. Or they are hauling a load. The LED are brighter than Halogen like the Halogen's are compared to the old incandescent lights. The glare from Halogen bulbs bother me more than LEDS.
Definitely the correct owner for this amazing car. Knowledgeable and patient just what it needs.
I like EVERYTHING about this car. It was a privilege to have ridden in others just like it. Wonderful memories. Yours are the best hands it could have to take care of it.
Very ' classy ' Wizard ! Definitely a keeper !
Old Citroëns give the American land yachts a proper beating on the comfort front. The old self leveling Xantia did 0.94G on a skidpan in the 1990's! It beat all sorts of supercars with it's amazing chassis. Such a shame modern Citroëns have conventional shocks and springs nowadays.
you finally realized that americanscant make cars, bravo!
Do you do a lot of miles on skid pans?
@@jesuschrist2284 normal people do kilometers….
@@jesuschrist2284It feels like you're being deliberately obtuse.
Their point was Citroëns suspension was incredibly comfortable while also having very impressive handling dynamics.
@@sjefhendrickx2257 oui
When I was in the military I was stationed in Belgium. My buddy had that exact model Citroen car. That car had the best ride of any car I've ridden in before and after that time. Beautiful job on getting it back in such great working condition. It was the same color as your car as well.
I remember the first time I worked on one of these in the early 70s; it was a semi-automatic, and to start it you moved the gear lever all the way up! Only took me 35 minutes to work it out!!
First time I drove a Toyota hybrid was similar for me. 15 minutes in the Avis lot. “Oh, I have to press the brake AND push the power button?”
oh finally! I was waiting for this episode since you got it. Steering wheel spoke is supposed to be directed to the door.I wish you get the head light covers.
The steering wheel is in the correct position. Between 7 and 8 o' clock when driving straight ahead.
should you change the position if you drive it during the afternoon? 🤣
7:40 o'clock to be exact! Seriously!
@@bartlevenson7851 a few hours later and we would be having a british 5 o'clock tea 🤣
Good to see another one back up and running. Interestingly most all of the so-called 'innovations' of modern cars can be traced back to something Citroen did with the D models some 60+ years ago. And some things have never been duplicated. A few comments about the video.
1) Suspension Units - LHM cars have green colored units and fluid should be mineral based - LHS fluid cars are black and fluid was colored red and glycol based, System components are not interchangeable unless all hydraulic system seals are switched out. Front suspension spheres on both Sedans and Station Wagons can have a blue ring to designate position. Rear Sedans no mark. SW have can a yellow ring. At this point it is rebuilder's choice to do so.
2) Carb- your's has a 28/36 Weber. It has a power piston. Most likely cause of hesitation is engine advance being retarded, like a lot of politicians, but not the carb set up. Improper carb setting (or units that need rebuilding) typically manifest themselves as poor gas mileage, back firing, inability to set idle speed correctly.
3) Distributor - if stock, ie mechanical, suggest you invest in a 123 electronic unit. Hassle free and far more stable.
4) Leak - look in area above where leak is on the ground. Suspension components have nylon leakage return lines attached to the rubber bellows or boots. If damage, ie cracked or split, will allow leakage to hit the ground. The steering rack does not have return lines. Check underside of the of both the rubber bellows for wetness. Check the underside of the rotating union (the component that the steering column is bolted to) for wetness. Check the connection unions for the hp tubing - being too tight or not sufficiently tight well cause seepage. They should be snug and still allow for side to side movement of the incoming line. If the leak is in-line with the fire wall and underneath the frame member on the driver side suspect the Height Control unit. This info should get you going.
5) If in-line with the front wheels a somewhat in the middle look for a leaking HP pump. Typically leakage will be behind the drive belt pulley.
The Timeless design is really amazing. Still looks new- ish!!
There really is nothing else like an old Citroen, you can tell how smooth it is just from the camera shots from inside the car!
That's something that could easily be missed, but such a good point. Pretty sure the BBC used a Citroen CX as their Camera Rig Car for the same reason, feel free to correct me on that.
@@Hipas_Account they were almost exclusively used on horse race tracks where the follow track on the outside were mostly dirt roads. Other cars were impossible to film with because they were shaking like crazy, but the Citros were as smooth as silk.
Are you saying that Mrs. Wizzard should start filming hoarses ?
That motor sounds sweet! No noises that I can hear via my laptop. I like it! I remember actually seeing one in 1969 parked in a motel close to home while on my way there from the community pool in the summer. Wizard, seeing your Frenchie brought back some childhood memories..thank you
Great work! Such an awesome car. Thanks for bringing it back to life.
These are wonderful in their uniqueness! Thanks for exhibiting yours!
Those are ALWAYS the coolest car at the event, any event...just the way it is! Nice ride Wizard!
Another smooth job CW!
Congratulations, love the car. Well done Wizard.
Woohoo🎉 Congrats, Car Wizard! Enjoy the fruits of your labour:)
You need to do more "road trip" videos it is very refreshing to the channel!
I agree.
Man So Rad! Looking in the cabin with you wizard is like being transported to back when those cars where new😊
A lucky little car to have such a knowledgeable and loving owner.❤
The steering wheel spoke is just right, has to be around 7-8 o clock, but i believe the cv boots are out, when they click like that with full end steering, they are about to break the breaker are not about the pedal movement, its just about the amount of foot pressure, no time wasted on useless pedal-traveling.
10:40 In England, this car was used to film horse races, as its suspension offered a smoother ride than modern cars, which allowed for a better experience by the watchers at home, allowing them to identify horse, rider, etc...
This was quite remarkable, after all those years after its market debut.
Only the more modern Citroen C6 came close to this - but it fell short, nevertheless.
Yes the BBC had the camera man and a tripod on the roof live footage
@@pauldavies6037
On an estate version.
@@johnburns4017 Yes the CX safari model I think
@@pauldavies6037
The roof was reinforced with the tripod bolted to the roof. It was in the BBC motor pool, brought out for many events.
The car and camera would keep up with the horses on the road paralleling the horse track. The road at the Grand National at Liverpool I 'think' was used for the British Grand Prix and European Grand Prix, so easier there.
@@johnburns4017 yes mainly used at the horse racing events
I like it! Such a unique and fun car; enjoy it! Thanks, Mr. and Mrs. Wizard! Have a good one! ✌️❤️🙂🇨🇦
Your are now the proud owner of the most comfortable car in the world.
You both still don't know, how lucky you are!
Congratulations! It's beautiful!
The DS is without a doubt one of the coolest cars ever built
Still can be hot in summer.
I’ll go ahead and say how much I admire your skills.
You got capot (kahpoh) right! And yes, the spoke is in its intended position. The reasoning behind that was that it placed the most rigid part of the steering wheel where the driver's ribcage was least likely to hit the rim in a crash.
Steering wheel is as it should be. Rest your arm on the door armrest and put your hands around the spoke of the wheel. Very ergonomic. BTW, the brakes are not "assisted", they are hydraulically powered. It´s more like air brakes but a lot better. And the force is dynamically adjusted between front and rear. Kind of "load sensing" but on steroids. And if you wonder, your steering makes the correct sounds. Regarding your steering rack, only let someone REALLY experienced touch it. Restoring a DS rack is only to be done by someone who really knows it. Always remember that this cars worst enemy were mechanics who thought they could, but didn´t.
And a big congratulation and welcome to the DS-world. You are now baptized and have earned your LHM-green fingers. Good job on fixing the old goddess. Oh, and the button that lights up the light in the dash is a test button, so you know the bulb is ok. The "STOP-light" is one you should take seriously. If it lights up while driving, you need to stop. With no pressure, you got no brakes. Sounds scary, but as long as you have some suspension left in the rear, you will have rear brakes (rear suspension is pressure source for the rear brakes).
Take the carb off and squirt some non-flammable CRC BrakKleen through all the ports. Just line up the red plastic tube to all the tiny holes and blast away. This will do an amazing job of cleaning the carb without taking the whole thing apart/rebuilding. Takes about 15 minutes.
Congratulations! I remember these cars very well because, coming from The Netherlands, my uncle had one and he took us all over The Netherlands on road trips but also to Belgium and Germany. It was always a fun, smooth ride and certainly an upgrade from his deux chevaux / Citroen 2 CV, after this Citroen DS he got a Ford Anglia which was funny when I saw it in Harry Potter
and the chamber of secrets. I told my late wife, as we were sitting in the theatre, "My uncle's Anglia could not do this but, then again, who knows? Perhaps he kept it a secret."
Really enjoyed the DS reminder. I used to sell them in the UK mid 70s and owned a 68 Safari, which was brilliant! A few points of difference on US spec cars, I was pleased you mentioned the brake sensitivity on ours the foot brake was a button on the floor. The spare wheel was stowed under the bonnet, in front of the radiator, it was always a load of fun demonstrating the self jacking for a wheel change especially if we’d had a puff or two. Roof aerials were a fairly common feature in the 70s to avoid vandals snapping them off; the roof is a single fibreglass panel. I don’t remember there being that switch panel in the dashboard centre, probably a US spec thing to go with the crappy headlights, we had faired in directional jobs. Happy days!
In the late 70'S in England, my parents had a Citroen GS and thanks to that braking system it helped me pass my driving test! I know exactly what you mean! 😂😂😉👍
I had a brown GS Pallas I even remember the reg no MOU60R great car and it's suspension party tricks
The GS breaking system was phenomenal- front discs powered by full hydraulic pressure, rear discs fed from the rear suspension (adjust pressure to match the load). You could lock all 4 wheels - as I found out on a snowy road - but still kept a straight line!.
@@sw33pdog I loved it for that too 😂🙂
starting to look good --- you will have a great car soon. On the carb front, you need to clean it well and the needles --- the car even when adjusted does not accelerate that fast ever. As for the brakes, they are normal, its all other cars that are wrong. Even the CX had the same as on the DS and once you realise its the pressure you put onto the switch that is key, not movement, they are more responsive than all other forms of brakes.
I used to own a CX and had a lot of fun letting friends drive it for the fist time. First break, you better have seat belts on. 😂
Likewise with the steering wheel, the powerful return to center would really mess them up. I warned about that though...
I love the brake pedal feel on my xantia. Every time I drive standard cars I have to relearn braking all over.
exactly Sir!! ....all other cars are wrong !!
Citroën got the brakes right. All other cars are inferior in that department.
I own 2 CX. They will out brake anything on the road, absolutly fantastic to drive.
The "mushroom" brake command was really something special. Later models with high pressure hydraulic breaking assist were also something special you had to "learn": even if the "displacement" course was more important with a more classical pedal, there was no place for a leaded foot. I can also tell the reverse experience can be traumatizing. When you've experienced the "feather" pressure, changing car you suddenly have the bad impression the pedal course is somewhat wrong, and you also have to deal with a more important pressure to get the same result!
One of the most comfortable cars I've ridden in, that and the Citroën SM. But the DS is quite under-powered. Love it, thanks for the journey.
Excellent work (so far)! Looking forward to your further exploits with the DS, even though you must know that more than a few people now want a DS just for the "lift" options alone. (Major props to the erstwhile Mrs. Wizard for keeping a straight face with the references to "balls" "spheres" and "deflation" in such short order.
Quite possibly the coolest car you've ever shown on your channel!
Said no one else ever !
@@jafo766 Quite possibly the coolest car you've ever shown on your channel!
@@garysheppard4028 And this is how Biden got in , folks that will cut off their nose to $pite their face...OK BUD !
Quite possibly the coolest car you've ever shown on your channel!
@@markstott6091 OUI , it's why the internet is full of them ? and the price of them $peaks volumes...? coolest ever eh...NOT
Definitely a car worth saving.
1969 and still looks modern nice to see one of these in the USA in good condition
An absolute thing of beauty. A car like no other.
I am in the process of rebuilding my DS steering rack. It’s not that difficult but you will need special tools to do it (which I was able to borrow). There are several guys in the US that will rebuild this rack for you if you decide to go that route. Or your parts supplier might be able to provide you with a refurbished rack to swap out. Good luck. Your vids are great!
You will find steering racks in France and Belgium.
Buying a refurbished one and giving up Your original steering ain't recommendable. You gotta be sure to get a quality part - not everybody offering refurbishing jobs does know what they're doing, regrettably.
@@manfredschmalbach9023 yes there are some poor quality refurbished ones out there. Have to stick with one of the reputable vendors for sure!
@@Citroeniste Yup, the "reputable vendor" thing is essential with Citroën hydraulic parts which are unlike most other "normal" hydraulic parts not needing "the green soup" .....
Replacing just the RH side leaking hyd. piston end piece or the valves?
Citroens are cool. My neighbor has an SM and a DS and raves about them both!
Great video!
Yes.Wizard needs and SM next.
@@theundergroundlairofthesqu9261My spouse is from Belgium and had a Citroen Xantia in Brussels and I used to drive it from time to time. You can fly down a TERRIBLE paver road, totally rough, and it felt like you were on new asphalt! That suspension is a WINNER.
And he is completely correct about the brakes; You don't push the pedal down, you put pressure on it.
Chapeau wizard !
Awesome to see such a beautiful piece of engineering back in to an almost 100% health. Vive la France
I rode in one of these many years ago,very comfortable ride,and the seats were as well
@car wizard @8:52 the push button was an optional button most DS has only 3 buttons (parking light, interior light and air fan). The one under the clock is supposed to be the test button for the hydraulic pressure/brake pad wear warning light (to know if the light bulb is working or not). The steering wheel is in normal position with the central part at 7.5 o'clock position.
My father in law ignored the hydraulics light on his GS, equipped with the same system. He rear ended another car due to brake failure.
@@janwestra8255 Musta been hard to ignore the lack of suspension & steering & maybe shifting until the brake accumulator was drained!
Such an unique car, congrats!
Just like Wizard 😊
They only sold 13,000,000 of them !
Great video and knowledge of the cars I've never heard of. Look forward to the next.
Mr Car Wizard. That car is made for you! Never seen a car that suits someone as much as the DS suits you! Enjoy. Ps. Hello from Scotland.
The Citroen is a great car!! They were very far ahead of their time. Keep after it.
I'm pretty sure the button with the pedal is just to test the break failure light, so you can check at all times that the break failure light itself actually works. It's a safety thing. My '92 Mini Cooper has the same system. Greets from Belgium. PS: 'Capeau' is the right word and you pronounce it right! Try 'portière' (door) next time just for show 🙂
All D's and SM's (unless a D with the BVH system) only have two 'pedals'. The accelerator and the clutch. There is no 'brake' pedal. The button - typically referred to as "le champignon" - or the mushroom is the brake control unit. As he mention one controls braking force in D's/SM's by pressure on that control - not travel. It does have a feedback circuit that pushes back as you press down harder to give a bit of brake feel. Takes a bit to get use to, but once you do, all other systems feel outdated by contrast.
Actually, It is "capot" pronounced "cap-o" the "t" is silent.
@@citroenfan8930 Would you please explain what BVH means to you. Google says "Boite Vitesse Hydraulique" or, "Belgian Vehicle Heritage". As i alluded to below, my '66 DSM21 had a short throw, short travel pedal (which which had the same effect as the "mushroom") However, the clutch pedal was just horrible, and apparently copied from the 1930's Traction Avant.
It had a cleaner version of the '55 front styling (single headlights) and the 5-bearing 2.1 L engine with leaky valve stem seals (burning oil). As far as I know these cars did not have a left-foot rest (aka dead pedal) and the seats on later models were made more supportive, like a Volvo. As Jay Leno says, the engine gets noisy above 60 mph, so he added sound deadening.
On my last '68 DS19 Pallas, I installed an aftermarket electronic ignition module, which greatly improved low-end performance,. Imagine what a modern 2.0 L engine could do. Even my 1.8 L Dodge makes 148 HP. Seats are pretty good, and has a "dead pedal".
@@omarjette3859 Your 66 DS21 M - the 'm' designating manual shift - had a clutch pedal. It had the 'mushroom, brake control. The only D's ever made with a standard 'master cylinder' and brake pedal were the base model of the ID 19 Sedans up to and including the 62 model year and they had non power assisted steering ie manual as well. Though the 'mushroom' brake button was on all models - it operated a simplified control unit on the ID 19 cars (SW excepted). BVH - translates to 'Hydraulic Gearbox' and simply means hydraulic system control for gear change and clutch control. BVH equipped cars only have one 'pedal' the accelerator. Some say it means semi-automatic transmission. The transmission's internals are the same for both BVH units and manual ones. The difference is in the how the shift rods/yokes in the top cover are operated. In your DS12M you did so manually with the gear shift lever. On BVH cars it was done via hydraulic pistons controlled by various hydraulic units. A hydraulic piston replaced the clutch pedal.
@@citroenfan8930 Well, no one was more surprised than I, that MY DS21-M did NOT come with a "mushroom" brake control, but did have power steering. IDK how many of these were made that way or in what countries they were sold. I'm Canadian & this was before the days of digital cameras & phones, so no photo. To me, it looked like the pedal pushed against the balance beam, just the same as the mushroom does. (I posted the drawing of the classic "mushroom" assembly on my facebook page, if anyone cares to look.) The pedal arrangement was pretty weird and I only kept the car about a year & then traded in for the "classic" DS19, with 1985 cc engine & hydraulic everything.
My ID 19's had the old 1911 cc engine, no power assists, except that if the the brake master cylinder was somehow lacking, it would open a line that fed pressure in from the DS type suspension.
And, i know about the gearbox on the DS21-M. It had the same cover as the BVH, but instead of hydraulic actuated pistons, there were compression springs which were supposed to move the forks back when changing gears, unless something jammed, and you'd be screwed, glued & tattooed. The clearances were just too tight at low outside temperatures. Simple cure was to just loosen up the fit. As for the clutch, don't recall, but I bet that the slave cylinder on the "Citromatique" DS19 was outside the bell housing, unlike the modern concentric abomination on my '09 Dodge.
You’re a brave wizard! This car was very advanced in its day. Only a mechanic could own it now. I’m glad you got it roadworthy
She's mostly _different_ but in fact pretty easy to understand, to repair and to maintain. the engines and gearboxes are good for half a million miles easily, the hydraulic systems are easily learned and once fully understood even easier to maintain (bodged cars ruined by "mechanics" could be tricky to rebuild to spec though), and she repays every penny put into her maintenance with 10 dollars of comfort, joy and luxury.
As an American overseas, I lived in Paris for several years from 72 through 75. I had a DS 20 I think it was if I remember correctly and to this day it’s been the best most wonderful car I ever owned! I wish they still had it.
- The fromt callipers are dead easy to repair. After cleaning them up, there are only 4 seals to replace. Square section if I recall.
The trick is getting the correct part as it must be compatible with the LHM fluid.
- That push button might be the test button for the warning lights cluster. The DS I worked on for a friend was from 1972 and had the warning lights all in a round circle with the big red STOP in the center (as on an series 1 CX and an SM).
- A word of warning to Mr. Wizzard ! Driving speed can be very deceiving. What feels like 50kph, is actually 80 to 90kph. The gas suspension and suspension geometry feels like you're not going as fast as you really are. Having hardly any wind noise or any road rumble through the carpets only adds to the feeling of sitting on a sofa at home.
- The single spoke steering wheel, as some have stated, is positioned correctly at the 7 O"clock. It's a safety feature to deflect the driver to the center in the event of a front end collision.
Seal's round section. Chrome plated piston damaged one & leaked so we removed the caliper till new stuff arrived. Stopped well with zero pull on one caliper and was only noticeable with really hard braking. I don't think that the old driver was ever fully told/explained to, only to come back when caliper was fixed!
Nice to see you work on your own stuff. Cobbler has no shoes usually.
Nice, congrats Wizard!
Got to ride my ATC 70 today that I've been working on and waited 40 years to buy LoL...
Happy day 🎉
Good to see the Citreon DS to a point you can drive it apreciate its smooth ride
The self-centering of the steering is interesting too. I had two DS cars back in the 1980s and the engines were the weak point. They were like something out of a tractor and for a 2 litre motor the fuel consumption was poor. The brakes were amazing as was the suspension. Happy days. Rare cars here in the UK nowadays as tin worm accounted for most of them!
The CX had self centering but not the DS.
The 2 litre engine in the CX was a Renault engine which lacked power. Citroen had made some bad investments and did not have enough capital to make the engine that would have given a CX decent performance. Instead they had to bore out the 20 year old pushrod engine to 2500cc and fuel inject it.
@@ngauruhoezodiac3143 Not quite. Both the CX and DS had zero offset steering, effectively zero caster on the front wheels. So, neither car would have the steering self centre by roadwheel action. That also meant bumps would not "tug" at the steering wheel. The DS had a lobe on the steering shaft with a depression at the straight ahead with a sprung roller resting on it The spring would provide self centreing action. Zero offset is what saved Charles De Gaulle, when his driver could drive a DS with one front tyre shot out! The CX , like the SM had DIRAVI (Direction à rappel asservi) steering, where the power steering would centre the wheel. You could park a CX at full lock, take your hands off the wheel, and the steering will return to straight ahead.
@@ngauruhoezodiac3143 I owned two DSs. If you took your hands off the wheel at 70 on a flat road the steering would wander slightly left, then slightly right, constantly self correcting. That is what I was referring to. It was wierd!
@@keithmatthews1673 seems like the wheel alignment needs checking. I had no such problem with my DS.
I believe the spoke on the steering wheel is in it's correct position. I remember something that its there for passenger safety so the spoke will not impale you if you have an impact and that is the safest position. I might be wrong.
Luv this ride Wiz. Don’t lose your luv for this old girl😎
Hi 👋 I'm viewing from New Zealand. Very nice 1969 Citroen, i was 9 years of age when it rolled off the assembly line. So it's pretty old now. We had them sold here in limited numbers, so they weren't a common sight on our roads. Back in the 1970s i had a school friend who had an Uncle who owned a Citroen DS 23 Pallas. It was beautiful. Your model is in good condition and drives well.
For some strange reason Honda used this Citroën hydralic fluid in their steering servo in the 00's. Been told it'll start leaking if using anything else.
A mineral fluid - not glycol based as DOT3/4 are. LHM provides much better lub qualities as well as not absorbing water vapor.
Yup in my language (French) it is indeed capot (but you don't pronounce the T, Wizard's pronounciation was pretty much spot on). This car is really nice.