OOH LA LA, I bought Hoovies '69 Citroën DS! AND it's leaving a green mess on the CAR WIZARD's floor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2024
- Sometimes Hoovie buys cars that he doesn't always have a long term plan for. In the case of this 1969 Citroën DS19 the CAR WIZARD 🧙♂️ knows exactly what to do... he buys it! What all has to be sorted to get this awesome French car back on the road?
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You WANT the clicking! First of all, the SPHERE (not ball) that you think is the brake sphere is actually the Main Accumulator sphere. This sphere distributes pressurized fluid throughout the vehicle's hydraulics the pump pressurizes the main accumulator sphere, and the pressure regulator that it is connected to shuts the feed off at about 1800psi, and the pump just recirculates fluid back into the reservoir, until pressure in the regulator gets to about 1600 psi. That click you hear is when the regulator shuts off.
Your system's health is manifested by how often you hear that click. When they left the factory, it could go as long as 4 minutes on a manual, and 2 1/2 to 3 minutes on the semi autos.
Also, that area with all the tubes and stuff has a cover plate. Get it and put it on immediately because you really really don't want dirt in there!
The handle comes apart and stows crosswize on the radiator shroud Longeron. The handle fits in the spare tire. It is also your lug wrench and fits the bolt on the rear fender that you must remove to change a tire. You should definitely check in there because that is where rust can sneak in. Also check the inside floor where the carpet meets the vinyl side boxes. When they are wrinkled like that it may hint at rust.
The horn has two settings. If you pull it back it honks, but if you pull it further back there are "country" horns that are twice as loud. An option was to put air horns on the country side, so you could toot at your friends and blast people that deserve it
You're missing the rear view mirror. It fits in that little hole in the dash pad.
The sun visors are on a rod so you can pull the out to position them in the middle when the sun doesn't cover in the main spot.
The steering wheel should be at the 8 o'clock position when running straight. It is meant to push the driver into the center of the vehicle in violent collisions. Straight down when running straight is actually dangerous in an accident.
Take care of any rust immediately. It can grow at a phenomenal rate. The brakes also have covers at the bottom to protect the disks. Def want that.
The cylinders benefit from new seals and is about 90 mins per corner.
If the car stutters on braking, bleed the brakes. The hesitation is air in the lines. Easy.
To bleed the entire system, put the suspension on high, then low, then high a couple of times, leaving it in each position for a minute or two.
If you run low on fluid and use the brakes, that's how air gets in the lines.
Finally if you get all the spheres replaced and you still have lots of clicks (short cycle times), replace the height correctors. There is one in the front and one 8n the back. The one in the front is where all those pipes are, and the one in the back is on the driver's side under the rear fender and a panel after that.
Wow, you must have worked on these car for many years, so much detail, beautiful.
My uncle had one in the early 70s, was a joy if I got to ride along.
I had a GS in the late 70s myself, similar hydraulic system, brakes inside as well, loved my 2CV and GS a lot.
"Sphere" and "ball" are synonyms, except "ball" is funnier. :)
Wow! Love all the info here! Thanks!
@@rjung_ch I've owned ten of them from 1979 until 2008. Daily Drivers all. I just kept improving until they were better than out of the factory.
@@joshuagies4900 If you're gonna do it, share the info so it will be a reliable and fun car to own. They are the best cars ever.
I had a co-worker in 1975 in Montreal who owned one of these. We all laughed at his funny weird French car. One day he had been buried in snow overnight by a snow plow during a heavy snowstorm. When everyone else on his street was shoveling to get their rear wheel drive American cars out of the snowbank, he just started it up, raised the suspension and drove it out. These cars drove like tanks in deep, deep snow with the raised air suspension and front wheel drive.
They don't have air suspension and should never ever be driven in the raised or low positions.
It's not an air suspension though. It's hydropneumatic.
@@baronvonzach6109 you can drive it in raised or lowered position. but at an absolute max of 10km/h. any faster than that and there is indeed a (higher) risk of breaking hydropneumatic parts
I had a citroen xantia, early base model. Same style suspension but a bit more modern version of it and one day while leaving work really tired and being distracted i had the choice to slam in to a rear end of a flatbed or a 1,5 foot snow bank on the side of the road because of no abs brakes, going about 50km/h. Chose the snow because eye level metal bar looked not appealing. After collecting my thoughts half of my car in the snow i simply lifted the suspension up and reversed away. Only damage was some engine oil lost due to the filler cap flying off to the side but found the engine bay. Eventually i had to sell that car because some electrical gremlins and having no place to work on it. Before that i also had a bx but that is another story....
Being good in snow is a French car speciality. My old 206 GTi was a beast in the snow. No throttle and just clutch to set off in 4th and out she used to crawl.
Being a huge fan of old Citroëns, I absolutely love this car! Glad you got it after Tyler didn't know what to do with it. It's a masterpiece of fine engineering and to this day, it still looks so elegant.
So excited for this... You should make a bunch of content around this. I would love to see you do a road trip in this.
These cars are insanely cool. You've got a diamond in the rough there by finding one with so little rust.
Hmm, the Maserati-powered Citroen SM is the actual desirable model to own. It's gorgeous and it really moves.
To me, the DS's are just monoliths.
@@alexanderpowell1528 That is true, a very desirable car indeed, especially if it's well maintained. Did you know the French road patrol police used the SM in the late 70s as pursuit cars
It's an ID, not a DS, and it's a 69. It has Pallas door trims, and various bits on the outside; the ID never had these, but after fifty years, I guess it doesn't matter! It doesn't have rust in the usual places, which is an enormous plus. If you have the money, I'd get "DS- le grand livre" by de Serres, which goes into detail. The 5th ball is actually the accumulator. I've a 1968 DS21, semi automatic, and I've had DS's for about 20 years.
Hey Wizard there is guy in Canada his TH-cam Chanel is Coldwater I think it’s easy to find him. This guy is an expert in Citrons he has lots of them completely restored from ground up, also, you can get parts and body parts if you need them, this guy knows them like you know American Cars. There are more Citron in Canada than Europe like they say. Contact him. Great guy and his Chanel.
The gent you are referring to is Scott Newstead, in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. The name of his channel/podcast is "coldwarmotors" He drives a DS station wagon version, and in process of restoring an SM coupe (among other projects). Scott has also appeared on Randy Kerdoon's USA podcast "Talking About Vars". The "coldwar,.." handle means that he and his buddies prefer to work on cars made roughly before the end of the Cold War. For example, they built up a 1960 Plymouth Fury hardtop by combining 3 donor cars. Showpiece and road legal.
As I half French (half Brit) living in France, may I say those wise words:
_Félicitations Monsieur et Madame Wizard!_
I was pleasantly shocked when Hoovie unveiled this DS on his channel. I thought it's marvelous to see such a car especially in the US and even more so in Kansas. I'm so glad you are giving it a chance to live and restore it. I don't know if anyone realise but the DS alongside the 2CV, SM, the Renault 4CV, Peugeot 203, Renault 4L, the Peugeot 205 and the Renault 5 represent the very best of French motoring. Today it is very rare to see a DS on French roads. People always love seeing one and have that patriotic sense of affection for it. Can't wait to see more of your DS on the channel and thanks to you for taking care of such an important French historic car. Enjoy it!
And the Renault GT5 turbo
the reason not many DS on the road is the maint and costs to keep them running
I had a friend who was a Citroen fan had a DS, and an SM. USA, 70's.
The SM was something not of this time or planet. The kind of vehicle Captain Kirk would drive to work. Still nothing like that today.
I would add a traction avant 11bl
half French half Australian here, well kind of with two passports.... the bonnet is le capot!
This video brings me nice memories from my childhood. In 1957, when I was just 8 years old, my grandfather went on a trip to Europe and fell in love with the recently introduced Citroen. He brought it home in Puerto Rico. To say that it got the attention of everyone would be an understatement. It was green with a cream colored plastic roof. Contrary to your car, it had the semi automatic transmission (no clutch) with the gear level on top of the steering column, which you could move it by just touching it. The brake pedal looked like a mushroom.. People were amazed at how the car would go up and down. The interior seats were extremely comfortable and the floor carpets had a foam liner...
Unfortunately, shortly afterwards my grandfather got very sick and passed on. My father inherited the car but parts were not available and very few mechanics dared to work in it. at one time, while riding very low, the exhaust pipe broke and the replacement took a very long time to get. One day an acquaintance of my father fell in love with the car, and my father sold it to him. This was 1959, barely two years after my grandfather had bought it.
will never forget that childhood eperience.
Our neighbour bought a new, gold convertible, 2 door(!!) DS. I loved it.
French President Charles de Gaulle was riding in a Citroen DS when an attempt was made on his life. The car he was in was riddled with bullets and even a couple of tires were shot out. The chauffeur was able to drive to safety. After that incident he would only ride in Citroens. Looking forward to the upcoming Citroen videos.
My dad had 3 of these over the years. His favorite thing to do was to take one of the rear tires off, toss it in the trunk, and drive around town on 3 wheels. I don't remember the maximum speed allowed on 3 wheels but we would cruise around and crack up watching people as they noticed. Fun times with dad!
The ability of a DS19 to drive on three wheels saved French President De Gaulle's life and was why he insisted on Citroens as his presidential car.
Let’s take a minute to appreciate how simple and ahead of it’s time this flying saucer was a beauty
Particularly since the first DS was built in 1955. Not a typo. 1955! And it had all the bells and whistles of this car.
look at those HVAC controls. Purely mechanical and they rarely break, not like the electronic and vacuum controlled crap on just about all other makes. Not to mention, if you had to repair those controls on this car, you don't have to take it halfway apart.
@@adotintheshark4848 I haven't owned a car with automatic HVAC controls that DIDN'T break. I've rarely, if ever had problems with manual control HVAC, which most of my cars have had.
The Goddess.
Well done wizard... hopefully you will advance to other superior European products .... looks good condition to me ....good luck
Now THIS is interesting. Ever since I watched Jay Leno describe this car and how it works and how it is so very well thought out - the French don't care what other nationalities think, they go their own way.
Fun fact, Andre Citroen is born in France but had a Dutch father and a Polish mother. The Netherlands was one of the first countries to import a Citroen. In France it is said his Frensh teacher added the dieresis to the e in Citroen. Citroen in Dutch means lemon. So your Citroen is a lemon 😁
In French lemon is "citron" The diaresis is what makes Citroën CIT-ro-en. Another example is noël.
Citron means acidic.
So your Citroën it's acidic
@3.46 Wizard looks like a giant beside the car🤣,can't wait to see him drive it.
In the Nederlands we call this car snoek that means in English pike
LOL!
The DS is a work of art... Just displaying it is worth it. Beautiful car indeed...
As an Englishman I am not allowed to say anything good about the French!
Having said this you have the best car ever - EVER shown on the internet.
It is a marvel of modern engineering.
I commented on Hoovies that he MUST give it me, despite being poor and British.
As an American 🇺🇸 you cannot handle or appreciate such subtle art and genius and should give (erm “GIVE”) it to me.
It is pure genius! It is pure brilliant engineering!
It is too good for a gas guzzling Yankee trope.
I will kneel in front of you and even state the USA 🇺🇸 is the best country in the universe for all eternity, but PLEASE give me the French POS as I will love and adore it.
Mrs Wizz will let you give it to me as she does not want you spending years of ‘quality time’ working in n this beast, but I am old, single and passionate about secretly celebrating French greatness and will properly attend to such greatness.
Just give it me and buy another truck of some sort. 😅
Well, as a Dutch man have plenty to say about the English, glad the car has the chance to survive. As for the French, I like them, better than the English. Just hope Scotland can leave, as soon as possible.
@@Paul_C I agree. As an Englishman it would be great to get rid of the financial burden called Scotland. Then again i have some Scottish blood so I also love the people (except when drunk and looking to push a fight with a big, soft, useless lump like me).
As for the French it’s a similar love/hate relationship. As my nephew and Godson has just had a beautiful baby boy with a lovely French lady I have to be more respectful and accept they can produce other wonderful things other than cars.
I will not start of the Dutch although I have a wealth of material having lived in The Hague for a couple of years and made a lot of great friends there. Like me they have many faults that are stereotypical of their culture, but again that is banter reserved for them.
I could recite the famous poem by Attila The Stock broker (“The Dutch, the Dutch they’re much to much” etc), but TH-cam would probably ban me as it doesn’t understand irony.
His bless you anyway.
Génial Pazuzu, same for me about English as a french. 👍 Rdv Rugby World cup. 🇨🇵 Bonne soirée
leave it mate. It has steering on proper side. This engineering is not for Brits
As a German I´d say this car is way beyond german car engineering 🥸 it´s simply unique and at the time it was
sooo sophisticated in each aspect. I´m very happy that I once owned two of theses divine cars ;)
The ride is so good that the BBC used to use the Safari (estate) version as camera cars when following horse racing as they could travel over the fields as fast as the horses and the cameras were completely steady. As I have said before there is the right way, the wrong way and the Citroen way!!
I remember them well. Some places also used the Safari as an ambulance since it gave stretcher patients a very smooth ride.
the same applied in Australia with our major racetracks.
That's certainly what Andre Citroën thought.
You have to admire Citroen. Peugeot was the French Mercedes-Benz. Renaults were a little strange looking sometimes but they were simple cars. Citroen just did whatever the engineers and stylists felt like doing that day. Weird cars and maybe there's a reason why no one else has used their inventions but they were innovative for sure.
The 2CV (dough-che voe?) Also has an amazing ride. But that car isn't as handsome. (acquired taste probably) These cars have smaller interiors than I thought. Citroen has some neat vehicles , the HY van is another cool one.
Mrs. Car Wizard - The floor is supposed to have a foam rubber pad about one inch thick under the carpet! It absorbs road and cabin noise including the muffler under the floor. It also makes the carpet feel sooo cushy! If the pad is missing it may be available from the Citröen parts place, or any upholstery shop can cut foam to size. Try the most dense, heavy latex foam first. It’s expensive but hey, you’re worth it!
There is a swedish company that has complete authentic Citroen interior kits or pieces.
Yeah my old Volvo has like 2” thick foam padding under the carpets also. Makes a big difference. I like it tbh.(Citroen probably were the first ones to do it, they were so innovative back then)
Dyna Mat might be a good cost effective substitute.
@@jeffrobodine8579 yes, my sentiments exactly
@@jeffrobodine8579 I restored a 1986 Buick Regal Grand National.
Let's face it 80s GM cars were rattle traps any spot on the floorboard trunk ,doors everything i dyno matted.
I also replaced every weather strip and door seal.
You would think you're in a Lexus.
GREAT PRODUCT!
LMAO!! Mrs. Wizard's resounding, "Thanks", tell me she's 100% behind you on this purchase!
Oh Lord, I haven't laughed this hard in a week!
Oh man i am so happy this went to the Wizard,. I have waited for a good and proper French car to be covered here and i am so pleased that the Wizard can appreciate all the very french ways of approaching things.
Don’t worry wizard, 3hrs and I wouldn’t be bored. This is truly a car ahead of its time and it needs the care and attention only real pro could give. This will be an epic set of videos and a perfect match for your channel!
My 1st ride in one of these was in 1956. A neighbour was a Citroen dealer. To a 5 year old not only did it look like a spaceship, but the ride was out-of -this world! I have continued to love these cars. They are truly amazing. I know you will really appreciate owning it.
As a Dutch car-lover who sees these almost on weekly basis, i can tell they're cool to work on! I'm a student-mechanic, final year. I love these quirky french cars, been driving Peugeots my whole life already. the comfort is astonishing!
if you need any foreign knowledge, hit me up. i have a French specialist garage below my apartment where I hope to work after my study
Thats so cool
COOL!
In France we call the hood :Le capot. Happy you enjoy a piece of French engineering 🇨🇵
By the way I think that all there Mercedes hydraulic suspension come from this car. I mean the concept. With all the problems that come with it :)
And if for any reason you have trouble to find some parts I leave just near a workshop dedicated to Citroën DS. So feel free to reach me. It would be a pleasure
I think we all agree on the fact that we French are very patriotic about these cars and we are ready in name of France to save them.
_Je pense que nous Français sommes tous d'accord sur le fait que nous sommes très patriotes pour la DS et d'autres voitures Françaises au point que nous sommes prêts à tous pour sauver ce patrimoine._
Hah, in czech it's called kapota, never realized it's from a french word :D
Well in Greece we call "capota" the condom haha.
@@TobRacer c est sur. 👍
@@snap_oversteer probably Latin or Greek origin I guess. Love the tchek by the way
Someone blanked off the front indicators and stuck some lights under the bumper. I had the smaller one, the Club. I drove with four people in and a car hooted at me as he passed. I hooted a greeting back...he slowed down to tell me my back wheel was flat!! The suspension compensated for the flat wheel. Brilliant cars...only flaw was that the indicators did not cancel 🙄 😐!! Brilliantly quirky...
Couple of side bars here. I was SUBARU Alabama regional Sales Manager in the early 70s, My dealer in Huntsville Alabama, sold and worked on these. He was also the head mechanic. On a visit I was looking at one of the DS' - Yes I've been in love with them also. He told me you needed to be part mechanic and part plumber to work on a DS. Now I know. When I lived in Tampa and my neighbor,-80 years old, had one as an everyday driver and did all the maintenance hisself. So the Wizard will have fun with this vehicle. Been to France a lot and the Citroen embodies the French attitude on most everything. Lastly - The Wizard owning this vehicle - sums up "Horses for Courses". At last the DS has someone who appreciates it for its uniqueness and will treat the DS correctly.
Car Wizard I know you will have problems geting parts near where I live there is a place that sells parts for Citroen appears that he sends them all over the world
It is in Penrith New South Wales Australia. It's on Batt St
I think both of you will love this car when it is fixed - you will love the way it rides
When I was just a little kid, one of my parents' neighbors had a DS. This was in rural Maine in the 1970s, a place and time when just having a car made by a division of GM fancier than Chevrolet was considered a bit weird, so you can imagine what it was like to see one of _these_ things gliding around. I always kind of half-seriously expected it to make the hovercar noise from _The Jetsons._
The crank handle also fits into a hole on each rear wing/fender and allows its removal and access to the rear wheels
Actually the wheel wrench does that, and it isn't a hole, but a bolt head sticking out.
Very common in Citroen of the time a legal requirement I think hangover
The long shaft he pulled out belongs just behind the bumper, there are two brackets for each end so it's secured properly. The handle comes off and is stored on a wooden plate that fits inside the spare tire. That's the lug wrench used for the wheels as well as the bolt holding the rear fender.
It can be splitted and the rod put into the tube of the handle. This will give a nice lever to loosen up your lognuts. For mounting the wheel you can take the rod, placed in the central hole of the wheel, as a guide.
@@ForeverNeverwhere1 The long part of the 'starting' handle is used to line the wheels up when changing them. It fits through the center of the wheel and engages in a hole in the center of the hub. The wheel is levered up and slit onto the lugs.
Mrs Wizard sounds excited about your new purchase Mr Wizard.
Congratulations!!! I’m really happy for you,
Not quite 20 years ago, I tried to raise the money to buy not one but two ‘72 Citroen SMs, one running & one fully intact parts car. I just couldn’t get it together. $4900.00 was just completely beyond my capability then. Every time I think about it my damned eyes start tearing up, even now.
Most people didn’t even know about them then, and I live in Detroit! Even my car nut friends thought I was insane...
In the Netherlands it had the nickname "Snoekebek" roughly translated: Pikemouth/beak. For a car designed in the 50's its amazing how far ahead it was in its time.
My father had a Citroen Diane 6 when I was young around 1975, then most mechanics wouldn't touch a Citroen. Only specialists knew what to do with it. The Diane broke down a lot back then, but still a cool car.
It really does look like the mouth of a Pike! Way to go Netherlanders!
Also called : 'the flying carpet'
In Portugal it's known as "Boca de Sapo" or Frog Mouth.
Citroen today, Facel Vega tomorrow!
Hey wizard, dont be afraid to make some longer videos, i would happily sit and watch a hour plus long video, your content is ver entertaining and educational at the same time. Keep up the good work.
The Goddess was a very advanced & forward thinking car for Citroen who were owned by Michelin at the time (yes that Michelin)
Everybody knows about the Hydropneumatic suspension, brakes & steering but the DS was also built on a radical base unit construction too.
A fantastic purchase Wizard 👍
Looking forward to seeing this done. Would love to see the suspension apart when you work on it as you can’t really find that online easily.
Wow! I didn't know you were a car guy as well. It's awesome to see you here! Love your channel.
DS was very cleverly picked as the name for this car. In French it’s pronounced DÉESSE which means GODDESS (a female deity) … the pronunciation in English would sound like DAY-S and the way you’re saying CITROËN sounds like CITRON (lemon! Hahaha) try SEE-TRROH-N ! I believe my work here is done! 🤣
@@mikedemarchelier9090 See-Troh-ayn maybe ;)
You might like it 2 huge tapered roller bearings on the rear arm and 2 tapered roller bearings on each front control arm, mounted in a big aluminum casting. But then again, so does the 2CV.
@@mikedemarchelier9090 It is pronounced Sitro-enn. The trema (two dots) over the "Ë" means it's pronounced separately to the "o". (The french trema (english diaeresis) is the opposite of the german umlaut.)
However, this isn't a DS model - it's the simpler ID ("idée", pronounced "ee-day", which means "idea"). It has cheaper trim, simpler brakes, manual transmission and doesn't have the driving lights connected to the steering and self-levelling headlights connected to the front and rear suspension.
However, this car has been heavily modified and has the more-luxury leather door-cards fitted.
Keep the suspension in the normal height. Low and high are only for emergency/unusual situations.
In what situation would low be an emergency/unusual? 😂
@@bilboswaggens2975 getaway😂
High to low is for changing wheels, no need for a jack..
@@bilboswaggens2975 mostly parking so you are not keeping the system pressurized wile it sits.
And High locks the suspension, so essentially no suspension, that's why it's able to drive on 3 wheels.
I love the Citroen DS. It's a shame they didn't sell well in the US. In France/Europe they're quite popular in the vintage crowd. I love the Ride. I hope one day there will be another car as innovative as this
Oh, this is wonderful. I have a 72 DSpecial. It's completely sorted and road worthy to anywhere. When you get this beauty in shape, I suspect that you will absolutely enjoy it. It's tech is so far ahead of its time.
No manufacturer has made cars as fascinating over the years as Citroen. How wonderful is your 'new' DS...!🙏
This is the first video I see on this channel, coming from Hoovie's. Such a delight to watch. No jump cuts but someone who can tell a coherent story without having to stitch it together sentence by sentence (or worse). Very interesting and I'm not even that into cars. Great job, Wizard.
You should get Euro headlights, better brakes, and make it into a DS.
Full hour video NOT boring! Very interesting, looking forward to part 2...and more?!
Glad Tyler sold it to you,and I actually get to see it get repaired.
Such an interesting car.
That suspension is *SO COOL!* It's complex, but reasonably straightforward, and there's a cult following for the Citroën DS and SM, with *tons* of resources online. With your skill-level, you'll have this thing leak-free in no time -- as soon as you can get the parts shipped to you, of course. They're not hard to get, it just takes time because most of them have to be shipped from Europe. *VERY* much looking forward to seeing future videos on this car. So cool and quirky!
This this this and this again.
These things are about as iconic of French culture as the 2CV, baguettes and the Eiffel tower are. For good reason too
It's a Citroen cliche, but have you learned the trick of changing a wheel without using a jack? Could be good for next episode to show the initiated how strange that suspension really is.
Everybody bangs on about how the suspension goes up and down but that's just for changing a wheel and certain service operations. Apart from the soft ride and the self-levelling that such a soft suspension demands, even the suspension geometry is designed for straight line stability, no matter what road surface. The centre-point steering means there is no bump-steer or torque-steer, you can brake with your hands off the wheel and it will still pull up straight, even with a front tyre blow out. The South African dealerships demonstrated this in their advertising campaigns, which are also on youtube.
@@normandiebryant6989The BX had the rear brakes come off the suspension hydraulics. As the vehicle is self-leveling it also put more hydraulic pressure to the rear brakes, which means that the more weight you have in it, the harder the rear brakes will brake. Also diving under heavy braking is not present on a healthy BX suspension. Under heavy breaking the car will lower the rear, meaning that there’s more weight staying on the rear axle, which means the brakes will grip more and the rear wheels will retain traction better. The car squatting while braking heavily is also not a rare sight on a BX. The DS apparently has even more tricks up its sleeve.
The more you read up on hydraulic citroens the more you realise how much clever engineering they have. A lot of the stuff on these cars just simply isn’t present on anything else to this day and many features were also pioneered on these cars
@@normandiebryant6989 It even stops well with 1 front brake caliper DISCONNECTED, panic stops & really hard braking needed some steering correction.
@@onelyone6976 Well, the GS, SM, CX, BX, starting with the ID/DS back in 1955 all took the break pressure for the rear wheels from the rear suspension spheres. In other words, Load sensitive brakes in the back.
@@normandiebryant6989 had a blow out at 80 mph. on old Michelin and I heard it, not felt it.
A Citroën without rust, that's unheard of ;) You have a unicorn there.
Congratulations. I'm sure you're going to give that car all the love it needs and deserves.
16:45 my understanding behind the hydraulic ride height of these old Citroens was that the roads in France were terrible. It was also a country car with an expectation that people would drive off-road. So the adjustable height was necessary to suit the environment and use case of France at the time. Given the potholes in America, this would be a useful feature on modern cars today.
Continued from previous comment:
The light in the middle of the dash under the speedo is labelled STOP and indicates loss of hydraulic pressure. Your car has a perspex strip missing that has a painted on color mask for the stop light in the middle (red), turn signal light on the left (green) and high beam light to the right (blue). The light seems to work fine on your car indicating that the pressure switch on the priority sensor is working. This element is the one shown in your video visible in one of the front wheel wells where multiple hydraulic pipes connect. It uses a piston with a calibrated spring behind it to open up the hydraulic accumulator to the steering and suspension system. The accumulator is always connected to the breaking system. If the pressure drops too much the priority valve will close off the suspension and power steering functions in order to maximize the time available for breaking, this will also switch on the STOP light. This is also an indication that initially there is no pressure available for the brakes so keep your handbrake on (hence the light comes on as soon as you turn the ignition key and may go off even while cranking because normally it takes only a few revs of the engine to pump up enough fluid into the accumulator to satisfy minimum pressure for the brakes.
The brakes are full servo proportional to force applied to the pedal/button, NOT the travel and will react IMMEDIATELY so no stomping on it or you WILL be thrown into the windshield. Takes getting used to but has many advantages compared to traditional systems. Some people hate it and in later models Citroen tried all sorts of contraptions to make it feel more like a traditional braking system, which I believe was wrong. This system shaves a good .5 to 1 second of reaction time for emergency braking and due to the high boiling point of LHM and full servo system it is near impossible to get vapor lock. It is more likely you will burn off the pads and melt rotors before that happens because the system will control the exact pressure on the brake pad cylinders regardless if the system is full of cold or bubbly fluid. The brake 'button' (and in later models the brake pedal) is also placed lower than your throttle pedal because that lets your breaking foot slide straight down to it as quickly as possible and with only millimeters of travel start breaking with minimum delay. For some idiotic reason current regulations require the break to be above the throttle (perhaps to prevent the accelerator pressed instead of brake 'problem') which requires more time during which your whole foot may have to lift and then the initial dead travel path must be passed before the brakes actually work.
The power steering is unique to the DS/ID although in some ways similar to a later self centering system called DIRAVI used on CX and high spec XM cars. This is a low flow high pressure system which only uses pressurized fluid when the steering rack is actually moving (apart from the leak paths). It is quite different from typical low pressure high flow power steering systems which always circulate fluid at pressure.
The part that is connected to the sway rod by a linkage is the ride height corrector, again this was used basically unchanged from the very first DS to the very last Xantia, over 50 years. There is alever system link to it from the ride height setting lever in the cabin. Normally you ride in the first position above full bottom, this puts the suspension almost exactly to the mid point of the total travel. The bottom position is a service position to empty all the pressure from all systems except the accumulator (there is a screw on the side of the regulator to do that) so that the system can be serviced, this includes changing spheres. The topmost position is really also for service but can be used at very low speeds, this will pass full accumulator pressure in all the suspension spheres causing the suspension to go to the upper end stops. This is used to assess leakage, bleed the brakes and lock the car into the uppermost position for jacking or putting on a lift so that the autoleveling system does not empty the suspension because the wheels have dropped under their own weight which it interprets as the car being too high. When the car is lowered it will then sit all the way down hitting the suspension mechanical bottom limit shicj might cause damage if parts of the floor and bottom sills sit on parts of the lift. The two extra higher than normal positions (3 and 4 out of 5) can be used to clear tall objects or compensate for deep ruts. Later cars had roof mounts for loads and being able to lower the suspension to ease lifting something on the roof or into the trunk is great.
All the elements of the system except suspension struts use no seals but rather are manufactured to extremely precise tolerance so that the extremely small gaps between the body and moving parts forms a barrier for pressure loss. Because it is not a perfect seal most elements have a leak return into the main reservoir. Unfortunately while the fluid is very mildly hygroscopic it can capture moisture if not changed for a very long time and the parts can rust and wear increasing leakage substantially. Citroen supplied a system cleaning fluid which is used at every LHM change interval but on badly worn systems it can actually make things worse because the 'mud' that the LHM has turned to reduces leaks. The fluid is orange and is called Hydraurinceage. Also, there is LHM+ fluid which was introduced some time in the late 80s if I remember right. This has an indicator die which will turn the fluid yellow if there is too much moisture captured. If you find such a situation it means the car was not properly serviced but might not automatically mean there is damage. LHM+ also had a longer service interval, on more modern cars 40000km but since most of the system is exactly the same I don't see a reason why this would not apply even on a DS if the system is in good state.
Finally - the rear trailing arm suspension. This simple layout is a stroke of genius because when brakes are applied it tends to push the rear down to prevent the center of gravity moving forward and forcing the front brakes to do more while unloading the back reducing the available braking force to assist the front. It works in conjunction with the suspension system but can be caught off guard if you do hard braking which will lower the rear end and then keep pressing the brake once stopped, which will keep the rear end down. The suspension will try to compensate and when you release the brake the rear can jump up suddenly as the added pressure in the rear suspension can now actually lift the rear, and overshhot only to then settle down again.
The front suspension is actually a double wishbone but the left and right bearings of the wishbone are both on the same side of half of a wishbone of sorts. The axis connecting the top and bottom suspension rod exactly passes through the bending point of the CV joint so the wheel geometry doses not change depending on turn angle.
Oh, PS - dual brake pads on the fron inboard rotors which are exactly the same for main and parking brake. This is because in case of total pressure loss the parking brake is operated mechanically to stop the vehicle, which is why it is a foot and not a handbrake!
All in all, you are about to discover a ton of unusual things that are actually amazingly good engineering :)
I rarely comment here, but I’m super stoked to see this getting worked on. Loved seeing Leno’s videos on these over the years, these Citroens always caught my eye. Best of luck with it!
Once you get it sorted, you will never get rid of it. Its a Dali painting of the automotive world.
Absolutely. ❤
Congrats with the purchase! You see what Hoovie obviously didn't get. You won't regret this. The DS is one of the most interesting cars ever made. I owned a beautiful 1972 DS 21 Pallas in the early 80s and I regret selling it up to this day. This decision of yours actually made me subscribe to your channel!
A fun fact about the DS is the BBC used them as a camera car to film horseracing. A camera was mounted on top and the DS went alongside the track soaking up the bumps and give a stable image
The did indeed - the "Colour Roving Eye" as they were known. They also used the later XM wagon as such and one is now preserved.
I remember that! It might have been one of the smarter guys on Top Gear that mentioned it, you know, like James...
16:28 In the original version (the one NOT sold in North America), the headlight would turn as you turn the steering wheel. But not in this model apparently.
Is exactly the car the doctor across the road owned in late 70s. 1 morning it died coming out of his driveway. Suspension deflated and car was jammed between drive and road. Didn't want to tow it out in case of damage so it sat blocking 3/4 of the road for 2 days till dealer came and fixed it. Was a nice car to ride in, I never drove it, had a Ford wagon with gt parts and 300 6 cylinder engine I built in driveway. Never let me down.
This is the best find you will ever snake out from under the nose of Hoovie. I can't wait to see follow-ups especially with the tally of how little it takes you to sort out the few hydraulic problems that it has
It's on my bucket list to drive one of these one day. They're weird only because they're unconventional, but they're so smart at the same time. And to have a rust-free one is truly remarkable. Looking forward to many more on this one.
I’m French and the DS was the favorite car of my grand father. Amazing piece of engineering at the time (the suspension saved one of the presidents during an attack). To help you pronounce it correctly, it’s « CITRO N » with the O well separated from the N sound. And the hood or bonnet in France is called « capot » (don’t pronounce the « t »).
Amazing video, Mr Wizard, that brings back a lot of amazing memories. Merci! 😊
I just got my DS3 back from the shop after sitting for a year. So nice to be back in a small hatchback instead of an SUV.
I think you'll find the hydraulic problems (brake, suspension steering and clicking) is a really simple fix with new spheres and perhaps some brake seals.
Look forward to seeing how you get on with it.
Sweet ride, unbelievably rust free and in good condition. They are becoming rare and expensive. I have had the successor model for the past 20 years (very different dash and the European headlights which are prettier to me) though it has been collecting (d/r)ust for the past ten 😢. I should get around to putting her back on the road because it was pretty amazing and comfortable to drive. First time ever i have seen it cranked the way you did. Take good care of it. Fun fact: DS stands for ‘Déesse’ which means godess in French 😊
I'm pretty familiar with the hydraulic system, it's really not that complicated when you get to dig into it, but some parts are incredibly hard to find. I can't speak for DS but the hoops I had to jump to find a good, non-leaking central distribution valve for my Citroen BX, were both fun and frustrating. The distribution valve is almost impossible to "rebuild", at least on newer Citroens, the tolerances are very tight and when it's gone, its GONE gone. The legend goes that even Citroen themselves basically produced them by fitting parts by trial and error, producing a ton of elements and fitting them together until they had a good one. Also, again, cant say about DS but in Citroen BX pressure in hydraulic circuit can reach about 200 bar, so you should be pretty careful when working with it. There should be a pressure release valve somewhere under the hood.
We had a BX - refill the spheres with nitrogen and the ride is wonderful. Brakes are pressure and time of depression sensitive - no ABS - be gentle... Seriously beware of 200bar hydraulics - same pressure as a full scuba tank. (And it's mineral oil, not glycol based IIRC) Good luck
I was watching a video on Xantia maintenance. I don´t know if the DS has it, but when releasing the valve, you need to be carefull to not release all the way and a little metal ball come out. those are really hard to find once they drop.
About 15 years ago i was the village idiot with a bx. The thing with these cars is that you dont need a parts car, you need two. I had two but somehow needed a third. My usable bx had several issues because of a poorly done engine swap, my own actions (too much boost in a leaky diesel) and the hydraulic system. I might have invented the squat truck thing about 10 years ago cos my bx would lift the front to max no matter what i did. Shame i did not have the space back then to fix it properly and i had had to sell the car for pennies, it was really nice. Most comfortable car i have ever owned when it worked, better than never xantia.. (I also had a xantia witch was great until electrical gremlins apperared.)
@@lheikkinen8320 yea, the parts situation is even more dire now as you can imagine. Some small things like power window switch (yes, I had the fancy Millesime one, it even had an automatic window on the drivers side), or especially the goddamn windshield washer fluid sprayer thing, are literally impossible to find. For those unaware, the washer jet, if you can call it that, on BX is integrated into the wiper arm and is in a shape of thin tube made out of the most brittle plastic known to man. After years of duct taping it together I finally found a solution - some Mercedes Sprinter generation has washer jets clipped on the wiper arm, and they fit perfectly on a BX.
I sold my BX about 2 years ago - had no time to actually work on it for quite a while and decided it's time to pass the torch. Still, the itch never left and I'm looking at CX on sale from time to time. As of now the last two brain cells still stop me from actually buying one, but I honestly believe it's only a matter of time at this point.
The pressure release valve on a DS is on the pressure regulator, which is the assembly that the accumulator sphere is attached to. However, you can let out MOST of the pressure by putting the car in the lowest position, then rocking the steering wheel back and forth until the play in the steering wheel gets excessive, then pump the brakes tons of times, in THAT order. Still, it's best to turn that release valve if you want to be 100% safe.
I'm so glad this amazing car went to someone who can truly appreciate it! Jay Leno pronounces it like the French would, so I think he is more correct. Looking forward to seeing more vids about this beauty! Once it's all sorted, maybe consider a Euro headlight retrofit for the better looks and cool swiveling function. I think Leno's was US-spec too and he had the Euro lights retrofitted.
Yeah, the Brits are French 'haters' so will pronounce their language differently deliberately. See-Tro-En is correct. But it's a made up name, so whatever. 🙂
@@CitEnthusiast why made up ? because ot thé tréma ?
The n on the end in French is to be pronounced nazally.
@@3pan1 no nasalization on the final n in French.
See-trraw-enn!
@@hj6084 gosh I just checked and you are definitely right ! Seems the founder was Dutch just as I am, didn't know that either oughhh. The Dutch pronunciation of lemon is citroen without the trema on the e, and that sounds as 'seetron' where the o is pronounced as in English 'do'. th-cam.com/video/kygr-iBO80E/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=JulienMiquel
absolutely love old Citroen's and I'm really happy you guys have a project now. It still blows my mind the amount of analog tech this car had back in the day. Most modern cars don't even come close.
Wizard, thanks for buying the Citroen! It's cute, and absolutory mysterious! This car makes a person want to study it. Even though it's 54 years old, it's so unknown in the US and packed full of ideas that it really seems like something new to a person who's known nothing but American cars. I hope you keep this around for a while!
After surviving an assassination attempt due to the Citroen DS19 ability to run on three wheels (the suspension self levels) French President Charles de Gaulle insisted on Citroens for his presidential cars.
I read Hoovies comment section and there were comments from people that have had these and they said what you need in parts are readily available. Keep us up to date with this . Thanks for the story.
Readily available on this side of France, not on the Wizards side. This will take some time and money to sort it out, but it's not that bad. Those weren't rare cars in their time and they have a huge following. There are clubs who have parts remanufactured when old stock isn't available anymore.
Congrats!
Hats off to you for taking on the project.
I can't believe their is no rust, they dissolved here within a few years. I once saw a DS driving without a right rear tire with the nitrogen suspension leveling.
The point of the two dots over the ë in Citroën is to indicate that you have to pronounce both vowels separately, like in Citro-en, and not Citron, which it would be without the dots. Just like in Noël, which is No-el and not Nohl.
See trow ughn
Thanks wizard great car. By far the most comfortable car I ever rode in and drove was a Citroen ds. Seats are incredible
Looking forward to see how this thing will turn out. As a french and long time subscriber, I never thought I'd see a french car on your or Hoovie's channels to be honest. I hope once it's sorted out you'll be able to enjoy it and appreciate the comfort of its ride. Good luck Wizard !
Nice purchase, car Wizard! The hood is called a "capot" in France. If you want a complex suspension system, check the "Activa" System of the Xantia (the unbeatable cornering machine of the 90s). If you want another Holly Grail, check the Citroen SM, which is more or less the coupé version, which has failed in France mostly due to the petrol crash of the 70s
I test drove a Xantia in the 90's, and was amazed by how it was as smooth as a DS, but didn't list while cornering! However, they were never imported into the US, so I don't know how the Wizard could ever buy one. If he finds one, I want one, too!!!
@@theclearsounds3911even in france the Activa ones a difficult to find, but if you look for the V6, it's even rarer!
The Activa technology is similar to the Active Body Control from Mercedes.
Indeed, it is extremely rare.
Tbf, the Xantia Activa suspension itself was pretty standard. It's the active sway bars that were way ahead of their time.
@@theclearsounds3911After 25years any car can be imported into the united states and there are still some good ones for sale out there
I could just sit here and look at this car for an hour even without you talking about it, love these things, one of the most beautiful cars ever made imo! :D
That is such a cool car. Looking forward to updates on the mechanics of the suspension system and how it works. I've been a fan of this car for a long time, and have a basic understanding of how it works; but the level of gearhead love on your channel is special.
The pistons on the suspension will leak. They were designed to leak, it is not a sign of a failure. The rubber gaiters (that you have foolishly punched in the previous video) are there to collect the leaking LHM. If you look closely, on top of the gaiter will be a return tube. It is supposed to collect all the leaked LHM and bring it back to the main reservoir.
I was not sure if he just punched on an already leaking bag but you are right. The fluid needs to run through that boot back to the reservoir.
@@uwekall6281 One was already cracked, the other one was punched by the Wizard with a screwdriver.
Yes, he probably would have replaced all anyway but always good to know how a system work before you start repairing it, actually I would say it’s mandatory!
hahaha @Car Wizard
Well technically it was still Hoovie's car at that point lol.
I have always been fascinated by Citroens, ever since I was young, like 3 or 4 years old. Thank you for making this purchase and doing a video on it just for us bizarre car nuts.
The DS Citroen is the first car I ever worked on in the seventies, as an apprentice, amazing vehicle, these things were far far before their time. Sometimes frustrating to work on but so rewarding. Amazing handling, amazing speed from their 1900cc 4cylinder engines ,2100cc later and amazing fuel economy from those cars, perfect shape, top speed 100mph, cruising speed 100mph. Can and will run on three wheels and one wouldn't know you have a flat tire! That suspension is something else. Everything on the engine is balanced even the water pump, works of art. Remember, first made in 1952!! Wizard you've got one of my favorite cars of all time there.
Congratulations with your ID19 ! The crank does not belong in the place you took it from but its due to be in the cavity between the front bumper and the spare wheel !
Indeed!
Wizard just bought another boat 🤣
Boat anchor?
I don't think this one can possibly sink.
That actually made me laugh, good one!
ha 😂
🤣🤣
I had to smile when Mrs. Wizard described the temperature gauge! It's the battery state indicator (in effect, a voltmeter). If the needle points to the red section, you are not charging. Somewhere in the middle or to the black and white section is good. This comment has been made a year after the video was posted up, so hopefully the car is all sorted by now. Great car!
I'm glad you've done your researches on it :) As a quick backstory this system was realyl left untouch until the early 2000s, with the Xantia. It only was made more reliable and adapted to work with Mcpherson front suspension so they could share more of Peugeot's parts (Which acquired Citroen in the late 70s).
The system then got more complex, also fixing one of its many issue by eliminating body roll completely. The last car to get equiped with this system was the C5 II, made until 2021.
The basics of it staying very much the same, this system, first developped partially for the Traction almost lasted 70+ years, and really was killed for cost reasons, as it wasn't compatible with PSA's EMP2 plateform.
This has been and still is my favorite car of all time. Thank you the Wizards for showing all the interesting mechanical details that no other English video has. I can’t wait to see more details in future videos and the restoration journey.
I can't wait to see the video of Wizard enjoying this Citroen when it's running well. He's gonna love it.
As a French speaking Canadian, the right way to pronounce it is the way Jay Leno does. The front hood is called a ''capot '' . These are incredible cars...Don't ask why France invented the Concorde....and has so much history. We have to be humble,,,,I hope you drive it on only 3 wheels, as it is capable of !!
When you sat behind the wheel of the Citroen, it was like destiny. You and the quirky car seemed like a perfect match, and I mean that with the utmost respect. If anyone can over time bring the car back to its former glory, it is The Wizard!
I have the modern equvalent of this DS19, a C5 Break from 2003, and it shares the suspension, altough its a bit more modern, the car is so smooth there is really no comparison, you have to expierence such a suspension to understand the other level its on, foremost on a bumpy road.
Only vehicles i have driven that have the same smooth driving comfort, are modern Trucks/Lorry's/Semi's (depending where you live on how they are called ;)) and like i'm beeing told some very expensive luxury cars have such smooth driving comfort.
I used to have a Citroen CX which is the next model after this. One of the most comfortable cars I've ever driven.As you stated a specialist car to work on. No local garage would work on it. fortunately there was a local garage where I lived in Halifax UK that specialized in old Citroens,so I was able to get it serviced. But boy was it expensive. That's the reason I sold it. Glad to see you're going to get it back on the road.Good luck
Funny you should say that about what the car looks like when viewed head on. The DS was nicknamed "Padda" here in Norway - The Toad.
Great that you bought this car Wizard and already done some research. Im from Poland and with my dad we love Citroen. We had almost every model with hydropneumatic suspension (2x CX, BX, 3x XM, Xantia and C5), but never DS.
Citroen made cars with this suspension until 2016 and then sadly cut production cause it was too expensive to make. DS and CX had regular Hydropneumatic suspension, then with XM there was Hydractive 1 where computer adjusted ride hight and stiffness depending on driving style. It endend with Hydractive 3+ on C5. There was also Citroen C6 with Hydractive 3+ and AMVAR system.
I may help with some basic stuff. Like with clicking, it's the other way around. It clicks every time when there is lack of pressure in system. Now there is a lot of leaks and probably busted speheres. Spheres does not only need to have gas in them but there ia also a membrane, if membrane is good then there is possibilty to just refill spheres and they work as new. Helthy hydropneumatic suspension should click once every few minutes and this time depends on model.
Sorry for my english, Im really looking forward for videos with this car. I hope it will give you a lot of fun when fixed!
I got a DS and concerning the clicking I agree. I think he should start with checking the spheres while driving in neutral height. Also I don't think that the rear cylinders are bad. The rear rubber boots are only for the return fluid. And a rust-free DS is generally considered impossible :-)
Wizard for further information/ help contact Scott at ColdWar motors. That’s his TH-cam channel. He has a Citroen SM, a Safari and has done a ground up restoration of a DS.
He based in Saskatchewan.
I hope you do this exceptional, innovative car justice. You are so lucky to have a rust free example. I briefly owned a DS 23 Pallas, the French tin worm got the better of it. In part 2 of the features don't forget to mention the one bolt that holds the rear wing on. To change the rear wheel you need to remove the wing. To jack the car, you set it to high ride, put the jack under the car, then set it to low ride and the wheel lifts off the ground, simple! You have new tyres, ideally you should fit Michelin XAS tyres, if you can get them. Radial, asymmetric, cutting edge at the time. Michelin saved Citroen from bankruptcy in 1935. The cost of developing the ground breaking Traction Avant broke Andre Citroen. In the UK we refer to the 'balls' as spheres. Good luck with fixing the leaks.
It IS Sit-Ro-EN, Wizard. Not hard Bro. Love your videos
Must say that DS does suit the Wizard very well 👌 Seeing him behind the wheel just feels right
Wizard's excitement about the DS is brilliant. I can't wait to see the follow ups!
That's a fun buy, Wizard! Back in the early 90's I worked for a German car mechanic while I was in college, and near to us was the last Citroen dealer in the US, John Stout CX Auto. They always sent their cars to us for state inspections and emissions, and the cars would never pass. There were quite a few emissions stickers floating around on Citroens in that area as a result of being attached to my new 1991 8v GTi. :)
There were so many technical solutions that I would have been very fond of.
When the car is loaded, the brake pressure is adapted to the load. All body parts were easy to remove and maintain. The brake discs are centrally located with huge brake pads that could almost last the life of the car. Sodium cooled exhaust valves. The engine was running fine, it happened to me a few times that people came up and said that the engine was running fine. A little story was that the car sold best when the model was approx. 15 years old.
So glad it's staying, this car is a legend. Either hoovies or your channel, I'm happy I get to see this one get back. This car is in mint condition and doesn't even need saving, just a few common fixes. Mostly hydraulic and all available at least on the European market. Could repeat a lot of tips, but check your comments in this video and Hoovies one on this car, a lot of good comments there.
Glad you got it. You looked great in it in Hoovies video. It will need you to fully appreciate it. It rode so harsh for him because he lowered the suspension all the way down.
I’m glad that both you and Mrs. Wizard will be the next custodians of this legendary motorcar. Thanks for the video.
In Spain they called it the shark, this vehicle in my opinion belongs to the era in which Citroen was the most innovative brand in the industry, its cars were like no other, they had a reputation for being robust and complicated.
In italy too :) "Lo Squalo" :D
@@AlessandroGenTLe I've been told by a guy from northern Italy that they were called "Iron", since it ironed out all undulations, and bumps of the road. Her in Sweden they are called "The Toad".
@@stefankarlsson8215 I'm from North Italy too (Varese province), but I always had known it as Squalo. Maybe in another region they called them "the iron", who knows :)
Unique and vefy special vehicle - loved the video and look forward to subsequent shows. Please don't hold back on the length of the videos
So looking forward on a sequel to this. Your way to explain the marvel called DS is exceptional.
My parents had a Citroen GS and it was the first car I ever drove! As a teenager back in the UK! I loved raising the car up and down at the traffic lights and folks would do a double take whilst I did it! You will love driving this car when you have done the suspension and you will love the brakes too! I have watched your channel for a number of years and am so pleased you love it for its quirky nature! Have fun with this car Wizard and misses Wizard too 😉🤪🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👌
The GS was amazing, disc brakes all round, even with the 1129 cc flat four it would cruise at 70+mph, out corner almost anything, and still have the hydropneumatic suspension…
@@colinprice712 precisely