Variable Valves are GOOD for the BMW R1250GS (here's why)
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Variable Valves are GOOD for the BMW R1250GS (here's why) @FortNine
#bmwmotorrad #r1250GS #bmwgs
Are variable valves bad for the new boxer engine in the 1250 BMW's? Or are they actually good? BMW shiftcam explained. Here I investigate the reasons Ryan gave for saying the new valvetrain is a bad idea. There are many benefits to the variable valves and the new 1250 motor in general. Having owned the prior liquid cooled R1200GS I can say the new 1250 motor is way smoother, more powerful, more rideable and tractable and also more fuel efficient!
Let me break down for you why I think the variable valvetrain - BMW shiftcam - is a good thing - and why I'm not worried about breaking down (and why the GS is not a good world travel bike - I agree with Fortnine on that).
GS Tour: • 2021 BMW R1250GS | F...
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I was determined not to buy a GS even when all my research pointed me in that direction. I decided to test ride one over 2 days at an off road skills course . I just could not believe how agile it was for such a big bike , everything you describe, both on and off road. I now own a GSA , I love having the bike, even if my adventure riding is mostly done in my dreams. Keep up the great work, I enjoy the informed discussion you and FortNine contribute.
thanks ride safe
I did the BMW off-road rider academy and bought a GSA one week later. Traded a KTM 1290 SAR for it. I swore I would never own a BMW and then I spent 2 days on one and now I have it in the garage.
I stopped riding m/cycles eleven years ago because of an irreversible knee problem. Guys like you keep the wind flowing through my jacket.
thanks. sorry about your knee
Well - are variable valves - BMW shiftcam - good or bad for the GS, and for BMW? Chime in below.
Why is everyone willing to sacrifice reliability for horse power! I’m looking at the Tenere or the new klr 650
Big Rock Media Love it
Why anyone would buy a kLR over a dr650 is beyond me. Somewhat better on the road ( unloaded ). Dr 650 will absolutely run circles around a klr offroad. Firsthand experience from one time kLR owner
Well stated. I have had a water cooled GS for each model year they were produced since 2013 and the 1250 is a nice but subtle improvement. The top gear roll on from slow speeds is significantly better than competitors. Or just the roll on in general. Like being in 4th gear on forest roads and just roll on and off the throttle without switching gears. My KTM ADV or my Multi Strada had almost no power down low and needed a lot of gear changes. I tried them but sold them. There is nothing like the GS. Especially the new ones. Fans of other brands will never agree and that's fine. The other brands aren't bad they just behave differently.
If I buy the GSA I will never stray from graded gravel roads, and will spend 90% of my time on pavement. BUT..... from the perspective of a Harley touring rider, I find this bike with it's massive gas tank to be *breathtaking* ! The moment I first saw one in person, I fell in love with it, but have only demoed the RT at this point. The RT left me speechless and pissed off, because I had to take it back to the dealership.
I think you missed his point. He didn’t say variable valves are bad for GS1250. He said, for this kind of motorcycle for this price, they should do better.
Knocking BMW for adding complexity is like knocking Kawasaki for using green paint. Look the GS was already liquid cooled, ride by wire, dynamic ESA'd, cruise controlled, lean-sensitive TC and ABS'd, TPMS'd, etc. I can't even list all the things. It is BMW's flagship bike. It is huge and complicated and great to ride. And my personal experience is that when the complicated techo bike breaks, BMW does stand by their warranty.
I agree 100%
BMW is the tech leader in motorcycles. 30 years ago abs on a motorcycle was considered unnecessary complexity, not its ubiquitous and has saved countless lives and limbs
Great to have multiple points of view over the same subject
yep
It certainly is!
All great points. I absolutely agree, the GS is not a round-the-world tourer. It's a big bike for trans-Europe/US/Canada highways and back roads. The trouble is people think it's a KTM 450 EXC / 690 Enduro and judge it like that.
Also agree on the 1200/1250GS feeling lighter than the 800/850GS, even though they are heavier. The boxer platform is fantastic in that respect.
Funnily enough I spoke recently with a BMW tech about variable valves and reliability. He said he hasn't heard of a single issue so far -- but did mention other issues he's dealt with (a few electrical issues). However, time will tell about long-term reliability.
My main objection is price!
I wonder if the electrical issues still exist on the 2023 GSA ?
Great video!!! But I understand Ryan's point... GS definitely is a great bike but for the price charged on these bikes they could do better. Congratulations for both of you
Most people buy a bike to ride because they like the look of it and if the GS is the one they want then that is what they will buy, I wouldn't buy a V-Storm as I don't like the look of it but I also know that of all the adventure bikes videos I have watched the V-Storm always gets a "good solid bike all-round" so if I liked the look of it I would have no issue in buying one.
As long as your bike does the job you need it to do that's all most people care about.
Since when do we as bikers of any stripe need validation?? Truly, the reason for our existence is to tell others to "Be at one with yourself." To be polite if I may.
Nice job Ian. Not only do you put in the research, you tell it like it is. You're probably the only BMW owner on you tube who is not afraid to address the elephant in the room.
thanks
Superb video!
You are so right - the extra peak power is a bonus, the low end torque and smothness is the true win!
For some reason, BMW have lost some low rew smothness since the R1100 gs! Now it is back.
So the question is - what about a 1250 without the variable cams, tuned as the 1250 at low rews? That would cost high rew power, but make a simpler engine.
So the real question is - wish compromise is the best?
1. A compromised cam shaft with optimized high rew behaviour? (Like sportsbikes)
2. A compromised cam shaft with decent behaviour at low AND high rews? (Like the 1200)
3. A compromised cam shaft with optimized low rew behaviour? (Like a Himalayan or a KLR or an NX)
4. A compromised cam shaft regarding simplicity, but with optimized low rew behaviour and bettered high rew behavior? (Like many modern bikes)
We can start with discarding 1 for adventure bikes. that said, I’m more fine with 3 and 4 than with 2, so... I kind of agree with both you Ian and Ryan! 😆
Just love the downlow torque and smoothness on my GSA, it's what sets it apart from other brands. Drove the PA last week, and I just missed the punch coming out of a corner.
Thanks for sharing!
I'm from Argentina, a third world country if there's one. And we se a lot of BMWs on the road, and zero Ducatis or KTMs, I believe the main reason is support. There is plenty of BMW shops everywhere in this country, even in third world countries you will find more BMW shops than Royal Enfield shops.
Awesome to know
Same here in South Africa 🇿🇦. The bmw network here is the biggest compared to another brand. Every city has multiple bmw dealerships. one of the reasons why I traded in my goldwing for a RT.
I like videos like this. It is very informative and you bring your view with respect to others. I very much applaud the way you disagree with Ryan F9 but still respect his views. Nice to be able to see things 2 ways. Most reviewers just say the same things.
Good job man, keep it up.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I never should have taken a 2023 R1250 GS Trophy for a ride in the Santa Monica Mountains.... it cost me dearly, I now own it. Salesmen said, " go take it for a ride, just be back with 50 or less miles on it." Damn bike sold itself, after that test ride, no pressure at all from the salesman. Dagan, over there at bmw motorcycles Ventura, CA, you never should have given me the keyfob.
Thanks for a good and informative video. Sold my 800 GSA-17 last week. Now looking for a 1250 GSA. Greetings from Sweden.
Very good review mate. Basically, just get the bike you want. Thats my philosophy. The GS/GSA are really great bikes as they will do everything that I need. KTM and Ducati also produce great bikes that may have a few more ponies, but I don't need them for my style of riding. Thanks for the content mate, stay safe.
Nice. All of the time you've dedicated to the channel is really starting to show. The production quality (at least to me) has really improved. When you're talking a little more freely (not off the script) it's great. Just have to watch the number of transitions/cuts when you're referring to your cheat sheets. anyway, nice vid, well structured, clear communication, great production!
Thanks
That's what I call a review.. Awesome.. New subscriber here from the Philippines.. Kudos...
Thanks and welcome
Mine is the rallye like yours but gold wheels i jumped the que as my lical dealer in yorkshire had already ordered a bike that had all my specs except alarm so thats being added at dealer. I am so excited . Sat was my first ever gs test ride. I have had 2 hexhead rt bikes so i am aware of the boxer motor. I test rode a 1250rt in 2019 and r1250r they are such a do it all bike. Turn in is slower than xr but i got along with that soon enough they look amazing in ralle colours
I haven't dug in to this, but the shift cam allows a different cam profile, not just a timing change that other systems provide. So with that in mind, there's the potential with shift cam to modify the the lift and duration in addition to the timing of the valve opening. Systems that modify the timing, only modify the timing, not lift and duration. In fact, BMW's own promotional materials mention reduced valve lift for low speed operation, which is something a pure camshaft timing shift would provide, unless you have another actuator at the other end of the rocker arm (which some automotive engines provide).
I totally appreciate this video. This video made me want a 1250gs even more!
I don't think shift cams are bad, it's just like VTech, the thing is that a rusty 2k usd civic has VTech and bmw could come up with something more advanced for a flagship bike
Ryan is like Sheldon from Big Bang, clever but often ridiculous. I'm with you on the shiftcam, it seems a massive step forward from the old 1200 which ran out of power at high revs. I ride an R1250RT and love it. Good film, it needed sayin'.
BMW bikes are for wealthy people in developed nations to go sport touring and adventure touring and have a great experience. Truer words have not been spoken!! Keep up the great content without the usual BS associated with moto journalism.
thanks
Another great review. Keep em coming!
More to come!
Great video Sir! I love FortNine and your channel! What do you think about that Klim Baja jacket you are wearing?
I love the Baja jacket and pants. Review coming later on,.
Great review!
My 2017 1200 GS was a much better engine for low revs/big throttle opening. It just pulled like a train with no fuss at all.
My 2019 1250 GS was less happy for low revs/big throttle opening. Less pull, not a happy engine, often lots of detonation.
My 2020 1250 GSA is even less happy with low revs/big throttle opening. So much so that this engine needs to be ridden with mostly a gear lower for the same corner/bend without complaining, sometimes 2 gears lower.
I do not dislike like the 1250 shift-cam. It makes the engine quieter & smoother but the gear box needs to be used lots more. I miss the 2017 1200 engine mostly. This was a true 6th gear bike the majority of the time.
The difference between the 2019 & 2020 leads me to think it is a tuning issue. My 2020 is a late build, just before or during the 2021 engine production which went to Euro 5 specs with new emission requirements. It's possible my engine has the same Euro 5 tune which may account for the difference in how the engine needs to be operated.
The Euro 5 specs are far too lean and make the bike run rough and jerky. A tune would fix those issues.
thoughts on the decompression / compression issue thought to be a source/cause for inability to start up some of these bikes owing to valve clearance as a source?
Love my 2019 GSA Exclusive but there have been issues, I’ve had a new left cylinder after valve issues and I know of others, it seems to have been cured in the later models. I love the 1250 engine, the best gets better and on the road torque is king😀😉
I did hear about early issues on the 1250
The seat is fine for me except the lumbar.
Love it. Thanks for doing what you do.
Glad you enjoy it!
Couldn't tell if its any good for the GS, but I sure like the *humpf* down low in my RS. Had the 2016 model previously and for a road bike the shiftcam provides a noticeable punch in the lower revs. Also, after you spent some time on the bike, you can tell by the exhaust note when shift happens, sounds nice ;)
awesome video .. excited to purchase my first GS
Good luck!
Great review. Thanks for sharing
Great review, I’ve had all four variants of the GSA. Just not the shift cam yet. I’m currently on the klm 1290 adv r and kinda want to go back. But the prices of these now are getting further out of reach. My local dealer GSA now is almost forty grand.
My two favourite things are the boxer engine and the wishbone front suspension. But I think for the price on my next boxer, I may end up on a goldwing for two up riding and keep the cheaper ktm for my all around fire road burner.
My 1290 new was half the cost of my last GSA. With that point I’m not sure if I can justify purchasing a new GSA again. But damn are they great as an all around do everything bike.
Great video. I have a 2019 1250 GSA and love it. It is my 4th large GS. Way better than the 1200;WC and infinitely better than the 800 GS
Nice video thanks.👍
When you talk about around the world you put a photo of a perfect bike to do that gs 1150 ..
👍👍
I test rode a 1250gsa last sat and i have placed my deposit and i am trading my 4 month old xr in for the gsa. I agree with what you say.
I have a GSA1200 and I love it. If I had deeper pockets, I’d buy a 1250 just for the extra toys and torque - but I can’t help but wonder how well all the complexities will stand up as the bike ages. These extra levels of complication are great while they work, but expensive show-stoppers if they fail. The GSA is becoming more of a sports tourer than a machine capable of long distances and high miles in less than ideal conditions.
On the road, if you have access to the BMW service facilities and the funding to pay for it - or if you’re off the tarmac, and have a support team in a 4x4 behind you, it’s a fantastic tool - one of, if not, the best tool for the job, but it’s rapidly leaving behind the rugged reliability that gave it the unstoppable reputation in the first place.
Of course, only time will tell ....
hi Ian, im hoping that you'll be doing a how to- valve clearance check on the 1250. I dont see any on youtube, Altho by the time you hit 12k miles might be too late for me as I need to do it soon. Any suggestions for a 12k valve clearance check on a 1250gs?
Great video
I trust you will keep us in the loop of any and all issues which come up with the bike.
I’m at a point where I have to decide if this is the right bike for me but owners satisfaction surveys and BMW’s low ranking on them keep me away...for now.
Cheers
BB
I think that you are confusing Satisfaction surveys with Reliability surveys? All the surveys I have seen show extremely high owner satisfaction. Whilst I have personally had great reliability from BMW's surveys show a below average result. Any problems that you have are corrected quickly by the company. BMW are a fantastic brand.
That's the plan!
@@glennpuckeridge6244 Yes!
Reliability is my main concern I just don’t have the time to go back and forth to the dealer to fix various items. I need top reliability out of my bikes.
What is that tiny tail bag on the rack behind you in this video? I would like to get one like it. Thanks, Robert.
It would've been interesting to hear you cite the bikes you DO recommend for 3rd world repair and around the world adventures 🙂👍
Very clear explanation, thanks Ian! Can you share some details about that windshield extender please? I'm 192cm and now own my first GSA but the cyclone sound around my helmet is pretty annoying. Thanks!
Puig large clip on version. Revzilla has them. Love it! Solves the buffeting.
That's pretty short 😂 all good I know it's a simple mistake
@@TheChindoboi haha thanks, I removed the . 😁👍
Really interesting - thank you 😊 I have a BMW R1250R same engine different application - I agree, the engine is absolutely brilliant
The 1150 is also a great, bullet proof bike that will take you anywhere. BTW, I do like the looks of the Pan American but I am afraid that if the tarriff situation for Harleys here in Europe doesn't change we will wind up having to pay like 25,000 euros for it. Forget maintenance, spare parts etc. The other thought I have made is that too much tech just complicates everything and I am not sure that what you get back is equal to the extra cash you have to shell out....I already know how to start the bike on a hill and I know how to turn and break.
Is the 1250 not liquid cooled? I'm a little confused why you keep referring to the 1200 liquid cooled. I know it's partially water cooled but it's the same for both motors no?
Ryan's review moved me closer to getting a 1250GS -- and not because I disagreed with him. He does far more serious off-road than I ever will. And truly off-road, while I'll just do unpaved. And curbs/medians when I want to "nope" out of a bad highway situation. I believe him about the weaknesses, and they don't apply to me too much. (Although he makes that riding look awfully inviting. When I live west or north of the Mississippi my needs will change.)
I like the *NOPE* idea, bro. Flexibility is nice and my harley touring doesn't have it.
It would've been interesting to explain how you can have variable + contiguous valve lifts/openings. Also, is there variable valve timing? Variable valve lifts+timing are 2 different things. Though, 2 lifts can have 2 timings, I guess.
Great video! I traded my 850 gs for a 1250. The power and torque are amazing
Yes they are!
I do agree with both of you... the solenoid actuator is an item which can break as solenoids often do.... knowing BMW's availability of parts (I gonna be waiting for spare parts for months)and the outrages costs associated with spare parts for parts and accessories stamped with the BMW logo... I believe Fortnine spoke some truth... However technology is delivering here a mix between fuel economy, being more environment friendly, power and durability that is justified by our modern times... with Euro 5 combating air pollution and noise disturbance (why??? 😢), ever increasing fuel prices and motorcycle bans (cities and passes in Europe)... sometimes I ask myself why I didn't get and AT-AS instead, as Honda is known to be super reliable and has available and cheaper parts... but also here will the DCT cost a little more maintenance effort than the standard transmission (it needs to be occasionally taken apart and cleaned or it will quit working)... but the DCT fanatics do not wanna abandon this technology... and quite frankly said neither will we (the BMW crowd) abandon the Beamer because of the heated grips being almost three times as much as the Triumph's, if you can get them from a warehouse nearby... or whenever they drop one from the sky by air delivery... I understand and I surrender (my wallet too)... so B(ring) M(y) W(allet) I am all yours...
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
100% on point. I am smitten with this bike. Ride what you ride. It’s all good. Keep rock’n it out there. Ride safe and ride often. Peace. PS: Have you discussed your current safety gear, Klim kit and boots?
coming soon
@@BigRockMoto
Thank you!
On point. On point. GSA is a do everything bike.
Yep
Everything you said is spot on. I ride a 1250GS, it’s my 7th GS and it’s the best 👍
Well said!
Torque (T) and HorsePower (HP) are essentially the same thing, at least they are very simply related: the second one is the first one multiplied by the RPM. That simple. The difference (and all the "opinions") arise when you look at the peak/spec. The "nice high torque at low rpm" statement is basically a statement about a less peaky HP curve.
Great point!
An oversquare engine with larger bore than stroke will be a high horsepower high rpm favoring engine. (BMW) An undersquare where the stroke length exceeds the bore width, will be a larger displacement high torque low rpm engine, especially if cylinder head is water cooled and compression ratio is 11:1 to 13.5 : 1 and capable of running on 91 octane pump gas. (Harley Davidson M8 motor, though lower compression at 10 to 10.5 : 1 and air cooled heads)
Good comments. I ride a different BMW and I can tell you that they are a premium motorcycle that are strangely not that expensive to run.
I like this video, reminds me of the BMW e39 M5
Very good! I’m on my second 1200GS, a 2010 with 80,000 trouble free miles. I’d be all over the 1250 but at 72 I’m not sure it would be a wise investment.
Awesome. Keep going!
@BlackdogADV if you like it and have the finances for it, buy it. Spend your kids’ inheritance.
Agree 100%
@Big Rock Media so which bike would you take around the world? I have heard the horror stories of a sensor or some other critical electric component going out on people in 3rd world countries with no BMW dealership close and having a struggle diagnosing the problem and then getting the part shipped to them.
DR650 with a large fuel tank and soft luggage.
@@BigRockMoto I had not thought of the good old DRZ, but now that you mention it, I do recall reading a number ride reports of people who took the DRZ around the world. Good call.
I've originally watched this (and Fortnine) video some time ago and it was informative. I could not judge by myself what is right and what is wrong as I have not tried R1250GS at the time.
Well, I did now. I rented R1250gs for a week and travelled a bit (mainly sealed road with some gravel/dirt roads in the hills). Nothing too difficult. I know people have compared r1200gs LC to R1250gs LC shift cam and general impression was that 1250 is better but not worth a switch.
I can compare it with R1200GS oil cooled that is my current GS. I have to agree with Fortnine....
Difference in engine power is huge but I just cannot see where I'd use all that power of 1250 engine. My oil cooled R1200gs has 105hp and I never felt it was underpowered in any situation. It can handle motorways two up with luggage at 150km/h no probs. On steep up hill roads never felt underpowered. It handles gravel and dirt roads just fine. I asked myself if I'd switch to later model ?
In my case no. Apart from providing better engine, there is no significant improvement in handling to me.
I know that you came with all sorts of explanations why 1250 shiftcam is better but my view is that it is not needed r1200gs LC with dual cam was just fine.
Reason why BMW put shiftcam on all boxers was to improve emissions and catch up a bit with other adv bikes that are pushing past 130hp. I cannot actually think when in fact I used all 105HPs that my oil cooled 1200GS pushes to rear wheel.
When it comes to emissions they will have to do more soon as they won't be able to meet new regulations with current engine anyway so I am guessing we are going to get R1250 engine 100% water cooled. Current one is only 30% water and 70% air cooled.
thanks for posting
Can you tell us what model Klim jacket you are wearing in this vid? Thanks
baja s4
@@BigRockMoto Thanks
Maybe shiftcam is just an interim solution to the next variable timing system?
I had a 1200rt and now a 1250gs and the 1250 is definitely better. Much snappier and has a better exhaust note(for a bmw)
a minor observation, this is a dual position valve setup, not a variable one. This is one of the reasons I dislike big corporations, they take a simple thing and present it like it's the biggest discovery since the wheel was invented.
I love the new Bmw traded in my old one never looked back
Well, there is one detail about BMW's shiftcam in comparison to other variable valve timing systems ... For instance, Suzuki's "far more elegant centrifugal valve system" as Ryan claims (and by the way, which Suzuki, for certain reasons, changed to a hydraulic system in 2019 for GSX-R1000), only alters the valve timing and shift, but there is no duration change in valve opening, as it is in BMW's shiftcam. What valve opening duration means in practice is, that you can smoothly cruise down the street and then, if you need instant power, your shiftcam boxer explodes like it's a completely different engine than it was a moment ago. And there are of course other benefits that you have well described, Ian. I can only say that F9's video on this topic is a bunch of BS, wrapped in a fancy production as usual, of course. And, of course, it sure felt well for a lot of GS haters, that's right.
Great points. Thanks.
Agree....what brand are those soft cases?
Bumot
bumot extremada
Very interesting debate done in a very nice manner. IMHO, these bikes should have a "if electronics fails, safe ride mode" that can get you through to the next bmw center without computer engineer in the middle of nowhere
they do
@@nikoscosmos really? Good to know, thanks!
I will stick with the 1200. Don’t need the variable valves. How much power do you really need?
Good Video. You have me kind of second guessing getting a 1250GS. It would be my first adventure bike. You said you would ride while till under warranty and not worry, but also said even if there was no warranty you would ride it. But a few times through out the video you said it is not a reliable bike. I was hoping to put 100,000-150,000KM on it possibly even more. But now I have the feeling I will be lucky if I get 60,000km before then is a good chance something major might go wrong....... am I understanding this correctly or am I miss understanding something.
Thanks
I said it's not the best bike for world.travel because it is too complex and too heavy. No one needs 135 hp to go round the world.
@@BigRockMoto so do you feel confident that I could possibly ride it for 100,000 + miles with possibly nothing major happening to the engine as long as I do proper maintenance? I know there is always a chance that something could happen, but do you think it will handle Commuting to work, day trips and possible 1-2 weeks trips that will eventually rack up over 100,000 miles on it and still be a strong bike at that point? Sorry for the questions, I am just looking into this and want something that I am going to be able to lay down the mileage and keep for a long time.
If you have it serviced regularly then yes 150,000 is certainly easy. Two 1250 riders locally one has close to 200, 000 kms and he had not had solenoid issues.
"BMW bikes are for wealthy people in developed nations to go sport touring and adventure touring and have a great experience". "the BMW is a bike for someone like me". "and you not going to be able to work on them in undeveloped nations" I'm from Sri Lanka and BMW bikes are rare. However your raw and unfiltered comment is much appreciated and brings me back to reality that I can never own a BMW, KTM or a Ducati ever.
I bought a used 2012 R1200GSA. I’m satisfied. Don’t think it’s unattainable.
European brands are more attainable than ever, specially KTM, you can buy a KTM 390 adv and will do the same thing as the big bikes
@@szoe139 it's impossible to ride faster than 200 km/h more than a few seconds. And unless you are in the autobahn, it's suicide.
I met a German man on his gs1200 adventure in Thailand who rode from Germany all the way across to Thailand so I disagree that the gs adventure can be reliable!
Having had a 2016 1200, then a 2018 1200 and now a 2020 1250 I too would not go back. The 1250 is the bike the 1200 should have been all along. Not everyone wants to ride at illegal speeds all the time and for those that don't the 1250 is ideal with plenty in reserve if you do. As you say it's not targeted at people who want to ride to outer Mongolia but at those who want a premium bike which is exactly what it is.
Great video Ian! Honestly I think Ryan F9 video sounded like an Android user talking about the iPhone...
good point
the difference is, Ryan owns (or at least did own) an 800GS, so the analogy is fairly wrong. on the other hand, this guy here, is obviously a GS fan, since he already got 4 GS. so this video is more like an iphone user hyping about his iphone, rather than an android user bashing the iphone
Well I appreciate your takes. However, I think you could present a more clear thesis for both your and Ryan's videos.
It seems the thesis of your different opinion, compared to Ryan's, is, "Despite BMW's desire to design and sell a bike that can travel the world, I don't think that is the purpose of this bike. This is a premium bike, and this engine is an upgrade from the last version. Upgrades are good, and this bike is good. Period."
While Ryan's point is, "BMW clearly intends this to be a world adventure bike. This bike is much more expensive than it's competitors, and it is better in some commonplace ways, but lacks the 'premium' advanced features we expect from this bike. Some of the new features aren't necessarily reliable upgrades. Why not buy another bike?"
I think both of you are mostly correct, but maybe it would be better to present a clear thesis. :)
Well said my friend...an Az rider as well
Interesting.
the thing with the boxer is - it's a German classic - one third of the Porsche -
There's a 2017 GSA near me for $19k. Think I should trade in my vstrom for it?
Love your content. As far as BMW and shift cams go. As a retired mechanic I would side with Ryan on this one. BMW are already over complicated with poor dealer support in much of North America. I can't even imagine trying to get support in south America. Having been on two wheels for almost 50 years the most troublesome bike I have ever owned was a BMW R1150R. I drank the cool aid and paid for it. A mechanical solution such as Suzuki's would be far more reliable. Teapot One got a brand new Shift Cam to go around the UK. The bike broke down in Wales. He did do the trip a few months later but on a 3000 dollar Chinese Sinis 125cc cheap import. Total cost of the Sinis was less than the accessories on the BMW.
While I will never pretend that my V-strom 1000 is an off road bike it has been faultless in 51000kms of riding.
Maybe I was just unlucky in my BMW experience. However once bitten twice shy. Again thanks for the great content and stellar reviews. On this particular one I will agree to disagree. Cheers
What windshield extension is that?
Puig large clip on. Works amazing
@@BigRockMoto Thanks - this above the puig touring screen set up in your other video?
The old 1200 lc, it's almost identical. Own both in family, and the small increase in torque and power, doesn't justify the switch. The 1250, it's also slightly heavier, consumes more fuel in identical route and it has worse breaks. If you don't believe me, there are specialized sites that can confirm it.
my 1250 gets better mileage than my old 1200. the brakes are now back to brembo. but I agree the increase in power probably does not justify the upgrade.
@@BigRockMoto late 2017 gs models are almost identical to nowdays gs.. except for the engine of course..
I consider the 1250 a good upgrade for who is still riding the 1200 oil/air or an older 1150, but if you have a 1200 lc that doesn't have any issue, you have to consider how many miles per year you do, before buying this new bike. Really happy that bmw went back to his own paces mounting brembo calipers (i'm italian too...)
Shift cam is reliable! Why?.....A guy in Germany did recently with his 2019 GS 1250 Adventure 300.000 km (187.500 miles) ! Any question? :-)
Truth told here! In fact one should ride the bike that can get support when riding ROUND-THE-WORLD. In India, by something made and supported there. Many other places it might be a honda... etc etc ....so on and so forth. I think F9 dissed the BMW for reasons he did not say. Why do I say that, well the faults he found could be said of all modern high tech bikes!!! FOR SURE!!!! I am willing to bet if he could have any bike at no charge, he would have a 1250GS. .... That is unless he truly loves a bike for off road use only and does not care for the HWY.
great video. But if I was actually going to travel around the world on a bike I would go with the Super Tenere 1200. Proven reliable. and almost anyone can work on it
Good choice!
@@BigRockMoto I'm living in the Philippines now bikes here have a big mark up. A base GS would cost around 29 grand. I found some used ones but a used 1200 gs with 43,000 kilometers will still run me between 16,000 and 19,000. Depending on the person. Plus I live 12 hours from the nearest dealer which would be in manila. Something breaks while I'm out on the road site seeing and I'm screwed. A super tenere or vstrom 1050 xt would be a better choice. Way less maintenance and parts are cheaper. Although I still occasionally look at used GSs
@@BigRockMoto I really appreciate the time you put into making your videos. Very in depth. Keep them coming.
YES, Shift cam could have ben done differently, like now the chance of one cylinder not shifting is very high, they could have done all this with hydrolics, leave ONE solenoid to control both cylinders. BMW has Electronic issues and add more electronis, in places where there should not be, is a high risk of failure. I'm interested in BMW, buy used, but for sure I'm staying away from Shiftcam!
Based on how many BMWs our difficult to Sell Even at 4K due the repair liability and cost of even DIY parts there design choices our not good for a long term experience WHICH use to be there biggest appeal
Kawasaki concours had vvt in 2008
They have variable cans in a lot of new cars I have them in my new truck and when the oil gets dirty they start to throw codes a malfunction because they runoff oil pressure. I hope the BMW doesn’t have the same system. Just one more electrical piece of crap to go wrong!
It doesn't work offnpressure
Great! I’m in Vegas and my new Ford threw a cam code on the way here! POS Ford
Last year I had 2020 year 1250GSA.
And after 10.000km started engine problems! Valves sound become more and more loud! They make cheap and no quality anymore from BMW!
👍
You saying GSA is for developed country?
I agree, but Ryan is to busy to respond, I bet. The BMW changed my understanding of what a bike could be, hi tech, low centre of gravity, and looks fabulous.