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If evil is subjective then regardless of whether Mehrunes Dagon has free will or freedom at all to do anything other than destroy, that still subjectively makes him the enemy of all that exists, same for alduin. It does not matter what their morality is objectively if they are trying to kill you. Its like "Can you blame the predator for being a predator?" and its like "if its a threat who cares?" Tiber septim may have oppressed elves but elves oppressed humans first.
Julio Padilla, sure you can dramatize anything to make it seem evil. The fact is everyone is equally capable of evil, you have the potential to be Hitler. Stop pointing the finger and take a look at yourself.
Berat Seyhan, Julio Padilla the Tibunal were vultures feeding off the power of a fallen god, who share responsibility for the Disappearance of thousands of Dwemer. Traitors who abandoned their pacts with Nirevar and Azura killing the former and incurring the wrath of the latter causing their people to lose their former selves forever. Power hungry, genocidal,heartless. Who sounds more like a fascist dictator. The answer is both for different reasons.
But if you want a dead ringer for him from the perspective of the Thalmor Talos Stormcrown/Tiber Septim also comes dangerously close. To a thousand year old Altmer, Praise Talos! must sound like...
the mystery is who exactly killed Nerevar. Some say the Tribunal killed him, while others say he died battling Dagoth Ur. Though, given Almalexia's insane lust for power and her killing Sotha Sil, it's most probable that the Tribunal backstabbed Nerevar. It's just not confirmed though
Just an FYI for you boys, qouted from the uesp. "Reading the first letter of each paragraph of the Sermon Thirty-Six forms a hidden message: 'Foul Murder'. Additionally, if you take Sermon Twenty-Nine, associate each of the thirty-five listed numbers with a word in its respective sermon, another hidden message is revealed: He was not born a god. His destiny did not lead him to this crime. He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator. Vivec wrote this."
@@puckered6036 Well, Vivec represents duality and contradiction in a lot of ways. Considering the content of the sermons it seems to me that he wrote them mostly for the Nerevarine, and not to establish the tribunal. I believe he does feel remorse and regret, perhaps because he was tempted into making himself a God and how much he actually likes it. He would never admit that openly though. So instead he finds ways to admit his crimes while still persecuting the Dissident Priests and disparaging the Nerevarine cult. Hypocritical as all hell. Also perfectly in line with his personality. Yes, Vivec wrote all the sermons.
@@puckered6036 Well, Vivec is certainly the most interesting character IMHO. But that doesnt mean one should consider him, or any of the tribunal, to be "the good guys". Vivec knew he needed the Nerevarine to end the threat of Dagoth Ur which would mean he needed to give up his stolen godly powers. Perhaps he was so chill about it because it was not only necessary, but also the right thing to do, since they never should have betrayed Nerervar to begin with. Vivec is complex and some people seem to think he is perfect. But in the end, he is only Vivec.
I my opinion, regarding Alduin, I think he is and he isn't evil. I think that he isn't evil because of his role as World Eater. It's really his destiny. But I think that he is evil because in Skyrim we discover that he isn't following his destiny. He desires to dominate and enslave the world, not to destroy it (once more, in the Skyrim plot). Because he took a different path, he becomes evil. But, again, my opinion.
João Pedro Gonçalves Guimarães well he isn't meant to destroy the world in the merethic area the end of time is the 4th era thats when alduin is supposed to devour the world..thing is he isn7supposed to enslave mortals in the mean time and devour the souls of dead warriors so yeah he is evil...in the 4th era he returns and actually tries to fulfill his destiny but is still evil and so needs to be stopped
I completely agree with you, i wondered why IK completely side stepped this. Aldiun is evil because that destiny people have been holding him up to all his life, he threw it aside for his own personal whims and gains.
Arena: Jaggar Tharn; yeah evil. Daggerfall: I don't think this game actually had a final boss/main antagonist. Battlespire: Mehrunes Dagon; not evil but a manifestation of chaos, rebellion and change. (still a big douche coursing a lot of deaths though) Redguard: Amiel Richton; I honestly don't know, never played the game but he gives me this very corrupt government official vibe. Morrowind: Dagoth Ur; More delusional and insane rather then purely evil really. Oblivion: Mehrunes Dagon; not evil but a manifestation of chaos, rebellion and change. (still a big douche coursing a lot of deaths though) Skyrim: Alduin; Technically not evil as its his purpose to destroy the world, but he was abusing his power and status, so a blurred corrupt and evil mix. Online: Molag Ball; Chaos, Murder, Rape and all those other things, yeah totally evil by his very nature. Legends: I have no fucking clue, and not playing a cards game to find out, Witcher 3 Gwent has left me scared for life as it is. Blades: Micro-transactions; Yes pure evil in its most corporate form. The Elder Scrolls - License name sewed - VI: Whoever is at the head of Bethesda and has been calling the retarded shots after Skyrim's release; Pure evil as that moron(s) are trying to drive the company into the ground.
Daggerfalls main villain was Mannimarco, who was the first lich and the leader of the largest coven of necromancers in Tamriels history, The Order Of The Black Worm. He was pretty damn close to Molag Bal terms of evil.
Alduin: A creation/servant of a god (Akatosh) who was meant to do one thing, but due to his design, wound up losing sight of his original duty and instead began enslaving and ruling over mortals with an iron claw. So at his core, not evil, but due to the effect of time and his dragon nature, became corrupted. However I feel that the events of Skyrim and the dragonborn's defeat of Alduin were essentially Akatosh's way of hitting the "Power Button" on his first born son and basically starting a reboot process in order to have him come back at the end of time to properly do his job as "World Eater".Mehrunes Dagon: Although I feel that the particular traits he represents might not necessarily be good or evil (for instance, "change"), he himself does seem to be pretty evil. He has control over his actions and the free will to exercise his power and influence as he chooses, but instead of doing anything good or neutral, he seemingly chooses to cause death and destruction mostly for his own amusement.Dagoth Ur: Its like what Two Face said in The Dark Knight: "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain". He is a tragic hero turned villain. So he was originally good, but then he got corrupted by the hear of lorkhan and the tools, and pretty much lost his damn mind. He went from a guy who was looking out for his friends and people, to a guy who wanted to play god, create his own god, and rule over everyone in a fairly cruel way. So....wound up becoming evil due to ecternal corruption? is that an option?Thalmor: Douchebags. In all seriousness though....fucking evil, stuck up, racist douchebags with superiority complexes.
I love all the villians in the elder scrolls. My favorite is Alduin, mainly because unlike other villians, He is what he is and not what he wants to be even if he thinks that. (I know it sounds really complicated) but unlike mehrunes, (which I really like too) deadric princes represent a higher plain or morals that mortals dont understand. To them is just as you said "they are victims of their own nature" But they still hold power to embrace that nature and do with it as they will it to be, which is what makes them so awesome. However Alduin is unique to me than any other villian and Dragon. Because he was made the way that was intended by the gods and he does not embrace his nature but rather HE IS that nature. He also somewhat represents the aedra, the very so called "good gods" in the elder scrolls. And if Akatosh created him and for destruction and domination and even rebirth then doesnt that make the aedra somewhat evil themselves? And doesnt that make alduin the very expresion of domination that akatosh may be hiding or just is?. I find Alduin interesting for this very fact. I am not saying he is perfect and no villain should be perfect, because a villian with flaws that represent very real if not understandable traits make them amazing. its rather those details that make me love elder scrolls and skyrim as a whole. My favorite game elder scrolls game is morrowind but skyrim is a strong second because Alduin is much better than he is presented at face value and much more well detailed than alot other villians like mehrunes dagon in many degrees when you start gathering info about him. Thank you for the great video.
The_Drop Bear Yes but thats what I mean. He is the nature. Since he was made to seek power and dominate. So even if he rebelled, that was still in his nature. Its something I like in alduin. I usually dont like rebel characters but alduin does it well atleast for elder scrolls sake.
Now the real mind fuck is Alduin is not just made by Akatosh but rather he is an aspect of him, they are one in the same, obviously this is subjective in the lore but I think it’s true and with Akatosh using his power at the end of both Oblivion and Daggerfall in a big way he is likely dormant haveing spent much of his divine power like the original spirits did and which is also why the empire once protected by his favor is falling. So then the other aspect Alduin was destined to appear in his place and like Alduin Akatosh turned from his path when he allowed and in fact caused the warp in the west, it’s his job to keep time stable not play with it to create a desired outcome or his continued support of the empire, he metals in the affairs of mortals more than any other god just in matters of fate that can’t be so easily seen, it could be argued that the last Dragonborn was born by his will that you may be a Avatar of Akatosh fighting Alduin to become the more powerful of the two again
For example you defeate jiggalag to take back power for Sheagorath and in the process become him, does that mean your dragon soul is Akatosh feeding on his own children the dragons to regain power?
There are many instances in real life religion were there is a Mesia somone who is the ‘daughter/son’ of a god at yet they are meant to be in a sense actually that god themself just in mortal form. In this sense Alduin could be the mesia of Akatosh, both him himself and his son in a way
Well in Christianity is there no god when there’s Jesus? They interact even though they’re supposed to be in a sense one in the same. And how does the warp in the West make any more or less sense than Alduin being pushed forward in time? Time is a weird mess in Tamriel and if Akatosh is time itself then how was there a time before him? That’s just the way mortals perceive him and instill the concept of his power. And the Nord Panthion has the same amount of gods but no Akatosh, yes they talk about Akatosh in Skyrim but that was one of the issues people had with Skyrim breaking its own lore, the in universe explaination is simply cultural drift but the point is why would the Nords only be aware of Alduin if Akatosh was not the same god? What’s more is he’s Ariel to the Elves and not quite the same as imperials idea of him. All of it points to difrent aspects of him, pehpase alternate timelines of him where they all start as one but being split in timelines each is another aspect of him same as the many people who make up Talos.
The only villains in the Elder Scrolls series that I feel are absolutely evil are the Tribunal. Well, Almalexia and Vivec, at least. I'm still on the fence about Sotha Sil.
Vivec, on some level, eventually came to regret his actions, and helped the Nerevarine right his wrongs. He was still scheming and devious, but ultimately chose to help the one who would destroy his divinity and immortality both because Morrowind was more important than he was, and because he was a sore loser.
@@Thesaurus_Rex He still left Baar Dau hanging over his city the entire time he knew he was losing his powers, and that goes for both the original Morrowind game and ESO's Morrowind expansion.
"Dagoth ur its evil,because he was an ELF Mehrunes dagon and molag bal are evil,because they are Daedras,ELVEN GODS Thalmors are evil.....because.....come on.....ELVENS Alduin....its not evil.....because he are an NORDIC god ;)"-supremacist stormcloak nord,4 era
Alduin is an interesting one. After you defeat him and are atop the throat of the world, along the dialog options paarthanax says that alduin forbode his destiny, reaching for the power of his father, akatosh. This is paraphrasing and I believe this dialogue appears when you select to say "Alduin brought this on himself", But either way I recommend you check it out for that (imo) impactful information.
Evil is a matter of perspective. Alduin killed the living and consumed the souls of the dead, yes. But he was sent from the gods to fulfill the prophecy of the dragons return. Calling him evil is from the perspective of a mortal, whereas the ethereal or immortal would simply call him a demigod performing his duty. He was still below the high Divines, and specifically akatosh, being his father/ creator. From the perspective of a mortal with something to lose, then yes. Alduin was evil and a bane to their existence. But from any other view, the dragons return is nothing different from the oblivion crisis, dagon, molag bal, dagoth, etc. The mortal realm of nirn is nothing more than a front for greater forces to fight on. Even if a daedra did completely conquer or destroy the planet, they couldn't possibly do anything greater than that, as the aedra still reign supreme. So for the sake of convenience, the only REAL existence with a life worth fearing for would be the realm of mortals.
Great video! The quality of your videos has improved substantially, as has your english. Im glad to see this channel taking off as there is not nearly enough dedicated elder scrolls lore channels. Keep up the good work!
I feel like while it’s true that mehrunes Dagon’s nature is impossible for him to resist, thus making his actions technically not his fault, I think it’s safe to say that the ideas he represents can be seen as evil, especially in the context of him destroying Tamriel with his army of invading daedra
Hmmm. Well, the Daedric Princes once got together and changed Jygglag's nature into his exact opposite. However, they could never actually destroy Jygglag and eventually he and his alter ego became entirely separate Princes. So I do think that it's possible for a Daedric Prince to change their nature, but once they change their nature someone/something else immediately mantles their former being. Thus Daedric Princes do not appear to ever really change. This also possibly explains how more and more Daedra appear throughout time and history.
Not gonna lie Alduin and Dagoth are both partly evil and good But but ok Alduin is partly evil because he doesn't have to destroy worlds But Dagoth was once as it seems a nice guy but he became a ruler with a iron fist and that is why hes evil
I think that Dagoth Ur isn't evil, he's doing what he thinks is right for his people. His actions are reprehensible and it's in pretty much everyone's best interests that he be stopped, but he's ultimately just misled and maybe a little bit insane, not evil. And, to some extent, he was betrayed by his fellows, and deserves some form of justice against the Tribunal. He is very pro-slavery, so he's not a good guy by any means, though. Mehrunes Dagon is hard to really know, since Daedra have different systems of morality, and what we see as heinous could be polite or kind in their eyes. So we can't really know. Alduin, though, is evil. He abandoned his natural purpose (destroying one world to make way for the next) in favor of becoming a conqueror and a despot, solely because he wanted to. A few others that aren't main antagonists: Jyggalag can't really help what he does, and he's more a prisoner of the cycle of the Shivering Isles than intentionally doing harm. And he's a Daedra again, though, since all the other Daedric Princes seem to hate him, it's possible that before his imprisonment, he was "evil" by Daedric standards. Hircine has the Daedra problem again. Almalexia wanted to keep her power at any cost, even going so far as to kill one of her Tribunal fellows, and attempting to kill the Nerevarine. Of Almsilvi, she's probably the only one who could be said to be truly evil, though the betrayal of Nerevar and Dagoth was evil on the part of all 3 members of the Tribunal. Umaril is a bit difficult to tell. His character isn't very well developed. He seems to have had a similar motivation to Dagoth Ur, and he worshiped one of the "friendly" Daedric Princes, Meridia. So, while I am unwilling to put him down as a good guy, I don't think we have enough information to truly condemn him as evil either. Miraak is evil. Betrayed his people to become a dragon priest, then betrayed the dragons to join Hermaeas Mora, _then_ betrayed Hermaeas Mora, all in the name of power and knowledge. And he's also just kind of a jerk. Kill your own dragons, dude. Wait, he does that too. Dang this guy is cold. Harkon is also probably evil. He killed his own subjects to become a vampire lord, and was willing to kill his wife or daughter in order to blot out the sun. While he might have tried to justify his actions through altruism, he clearly just wanted more and more power, to the point that he failed to consider just how idiotic his aspirations were. There is a chance that he isn't actually evil, and just incredibly stupid instead. Not sure which is worse. Molag Bal. Daedric morality problems. Again. The Thalmor are on the brink. They're trying to save their people from what they see as a cursed fate forced upon them by Lorkhan, but their methods leave a LOT to be desired.
Me and my friends here fo Brazil we love your channel and your videos about Elder Scrools, a shame that does not have Portuguese subtitles in your videos, at least I try to understand phonetically hahahaha
I can understand that Dagon isn't entirely evil, as change and ambition aren't always evil. But Molag Bal is most certainly evil. Rape is always evil, and murder is always evil. And Daedra can change. That was the entire point of The Shivering Isles.
Dagoth Ur isnt evil, in some ways we all can see ourselves in him, he's been betrayed, he was left alone with the heart, corrupted, and then his friend may or may not (fucking time space shit) have been killed by the tribunal who then come in and defeat him and use the heart for themselves to make themselves gods and cursing the chimer. In some way his own ruling is best for his race in his warped mind
I believe I already did a piece on the bretons and high rock... But I don't remember if I did their history. Will check, and add your request to my list :D
Imperial Knowledge thank you very much for responding, you are my favorite channel for elder scrolls. I love your Breton video and I watch it nearly every day. Perhaps I’m just greedy for more lore because that are my favorite race. I’m curious of your thoughts on the future of high rock. The Bretons are the only proof of a true peace between human and elf. Will high rock stay loyal to the fading empire or could the elves maybe persuade them to return to the fold?? Your theory from the Breton video could play a factor in high rocks alliance as well. Thank you again for listening to me and for making such amazing content to enjoy. Have a great week!
Thanks! I am currently wrapping up the videos for the coming week (For when i am on holiday) in a week I will start working on videos again, and maybe do something more on high rock. It is on my request list atm and I will pick something new from that list in a week :D
Technically dragons are superior beings which reflects in their godlike souls so it is about as evil as humans domesticating pigs. Now his dragon priests were fellow humans who became corrupt which caused the mortals to rebel against the priests and the dragons who gave them power. Alduin is more arrogant, although he admittedly didn't care or even didn't know that the priests became corrupt. The problem with Alduin is that he wanted to be worshiped like a god (as the nords already chose to do) rather than truly rule humans so he had other humans do that. A Skyrim ruled and protected by dragons wouldn't have to worry so much about the Empire, Thalmor, Miraak, the Dark Brotherhood, vampires, dragon attacks, daedra invading, or much else. Paarthunax the Wise for High King! Do you respect the old nordic ways and the Greybeards? Vote for Paarthunax the greatest Greybeard to ever live! He hates the Thalmor too and has enough power to do something about it!
As for Alduin, is it really evil to destroy, in order to create? If the nature of the ES universe is a cycle, then shouldn't he perpetuate that cycle, instead of breaking it?
12:33 this section ignores the big part that the thalmor are committing genocide on other races within their territory and throughout, along with the fact they’re trying to unmake the world
There's so much to talk about after watching this video. To start off: It's great how you try to look at both sides for all of these villains. As you have said "good and evil" are words you personally use to describe a person or an action and due to this they are both just subjective and based on your ideology. Just because something is your anthagonist doesn't mean it's evil. So all those villains in the Elder Scrolls are not particularly evil, but they have goals and want to achieve things you as a player don't want to let happen. Even though I don't want to go into more details, understanding that the world and the people are not just "good and evil" or "black and white" will also give you a different look at real world history and politics. Also in our world I feel like people often see themselves as the "good" ones fighting for the right thing without questioning the own position (because thinking like this is just easy). tl;dr Great Video. Great topic. Good work here!
I think alduin is a good example of the fine line that separates an evil being from an evil force. To say that Alduin is inherently evil for trying to fulfill what as far as he's aware of is his destiny is easy to argue against, however if any mortal in the game were to describe alduin as a force of evil...well that's harder to argue against because any group of mortal beings is going to view annihilation of their world unfavorably and that's what alduin represents and claims to desire
Hey Imperial Knowledge, I have a theory on the dwemer's disappearance. Was wondering what you may think. The Ehlnofey, once descendants of the Aedra, were once godly beings who were stripped of their power and forced to live on Nirn. A long time later, we have the dwemer, power hungry people that descended from the Old Ehlnofey just as all mer do. They were obsessed with obtaining godhood, and maybe they did, to an extent. My theory goes that when the dwemer used the tools of Kagrenac, they reverted to their previous glorious selves as god-like Ehlnofey, just as they were before the creation of Nirn. The Tribunal obtained god-like powers after using the tools, but what's to say they didn't use them in a different way, leading to them remaining on Nirn. Or maybe they were given a choice by some higher power of staying or joining the other Ehlonfey. Elves are power hungry, especially the Altmer, it's in their nature. So were the dwarves. I think their Ehlnofey origin is the reason for this. Some part in every elf's mind wants to regain the power they once had.
fuck, you got me there. The only excuse I can come up with is that men are technically wandering Ehlnofey, so perhaps his spirit returns to the plane of the gods or ehlnofey. Then his ghost that is summoned is like how dremora can be summoned from another plane of existence.
Yugo and why did the entire dwemer race (except one) dissapear but with arniel gane (the Guy in skyrim) only one dissapears? I am actually curious about this (would be an interesting video)
The Dwemer became the Numidium. All of their souls were absorbed by the Brass God to become its "Divine Skin" after Kagrenac used his tools to meddle with the Heart for the last time. In essence, the Dwemer truly did reach divinity, by becoming One. Yagrum still exists because he was travelling the realms of Oblivion at the time.
I believe that mehrunes is a manifestation of ambition, destruction and change. He has no free will. That is the question of this video: does free will exist?
I feel like Dagoth Ur isn't truly evil. I think he's more misguided & when he learns of the Neravars return something in him lets the Neravar win. Letting him have a chance to win by telling him to get the tools. The drawing him to the heart which needs to be destroyed to defeat the tribunal which all makes me think somewhere in him was the man that admired the Neravar & trusted him & wanted to give him a chance to end the false gods of the Tribunal.
its not only about the motives but also about the methods they use. the thalmor? their actions might be a *bit* over the top only for the sake of revenge for the conquest of alinor by tiber septim
There is nothing evil in Alduin’s mission. Akatosh resets the history of Mundus and Tamriel whenever he thinks necessary. It’s not an Apocalypse so to say, that’s just a reset. No one in Tamriel was going to perish, they would just be frozen in time and left behind. The thing that Alduin burnt down villages was due to him being a dragon, that has nothing to do with his mission in Tamriel. The Dragonborn fights him in order to foil his mission of resetting time, not just because that’s a smelly scaly dark flying lizard he personally doesn’t like.
Is it canon that Alduin is a fragment or Nordic aspect of akatosh/auriel being only the end of time where auriel is beginning and akatosh present? Or is canon that he’s only a dragon but the strongest one?
Hi Zork, thanks for the video. Your philosofical analysis about the social, cultural and moral aspects about the TES Universe are so good that I can't stop waiting you make them on the videos. So, about the subject, I agree with you in the most part of your analysis, except by The Thalmor. Yes, the Empire has a historical debt with the Altmer of Summerset Isles, and the angry, the frustration and lost of beloved family relatives still lives in some of them. As you stated on the video, the people of Summerset are now living in a Nazi political and social regime, and the ideology of supremacy is the main point of why they are ACTING evil, but not necessarily ARE evil (at least when we think about the common citizens on the Aldmeri Dominion). The Thalmor, specifically, are a political party, a structured and organized group that supports the Altmer Racial Supremacy, and that ideology is evil, because see ALL other races as inferior ones, and we know that this is wrong. An Altmer can't breath underwater like an Argonian, can't see in the darkness like a Khajiit, can't be naturally strong as an Orsimer, and the examples list goes... So, the desire of the Dominion's leadership are the evil aspect on this Cold War scenario. If the Dominion only had splitted from the Empire, and some centuries after started a comercial and political relationship with the Empire, soon, it could inspire the other provincies to chase their indenpendencies, like happened to Hammerfell, Blackmarsh (now Argonia) and, possibly, in the future Lore, Skyrim. Tamriel in these times could It be in the way of being a federate State, with ALL the provincies with their autonomies, but with some common laws and general representation, like happens here in Brazil, or even in the United States, the main example of this system. But I think Bethesda wants to keep that card on the sleeve for the future. Thank you so much again for the video, and sorry for any mistakes on my large text. And, as a suggestion for the next video, could you please talk about the nobility system of the Empire, or maybe, a opinion video about the technology of Tamriel entering in the Industrial Era after the Cold War/Second Great War (with the possible re-introduction of the Dwemmer Engineering in the process)?
I would define evil as "Performing acts that harm others with no motivation other than to cause harm" This lack of other motivation includes taking pleasure in doing the harmful acts. It is not evil if it is a pleasure seeking behavior, it is just selfish. In order for it to be evil, it must be done even if there is no pleasure or self-gain. Evil is a selfless act.
The Thalmor want to "Erase man from the equation" Genocide is evil so they are 100% evil. The other 3 are debatable since their actions are a consequence of them failing to overcome their nature; Alduin's nature is that of dragons wishing to dominate all it sees, which is a preferable alternative to Alduin's other nature and designated purpose which is to destroy the world which by conquering the world he does not undertake, Mehrune's Dagon as you said is a daedric prince, their nature technically sort of can be overcome but the last time that happened it involved a curse by all the other daedric princes on Jygglag so we don't know if they can actually overcome it themselves, and Dagoth Ur was driven insane by the heart of Lorkhan, so blaming him would be like blaming a crazy person for punching someone I guess, though his plan to dominate the world involved spreading the disease corpus which essentially involved turning all the people of the world into mindless zombies, removing their free will and turning the world into slaves is a pretty evil action.
No, its in the in game book Rising Threat. They do numerous pogroms, ethnic cleansing of those who are not "of the blood of the Aldmer" in other words, man.
It’s not always stated, but it’s pretty easy to justify most Elder Scrolls villains. Jagar Tharn: “I was trying to save all you fools from the Oblivion Crisis!” Daggerfall villains: “It was the PC who BROKE TIME. Don’t hate the non-character players, hate the game.” Dagoth Ur: [Insane ramblings from the perspective of Voryn Dagoth, an Anakin type who got Darth Vadered through no fault of his own due to possession by an ancient force of absolute chaos, the Sharmat] Mythic Dawn: “Time is the weapon of a fascist alien who invaded Nirn, and we can escape it. We’re assisting in the reclamation of stolen property, and actually achieving immortality (for ourselves) in the process.” Alduin: “It was my nature to end all this. That was Akatosh’s first thought, and my order. Did you want that? No? But you want me to sit around until some selfish idiots break time entirely and you all just stop existing? I can’t win with you people.”
I dislike how dragons are described as creations/offspring of Akatosh in Skyrim, with Alduin as firstborn. All of them have existed since before the beginning of time, before Akatosh himself really manifested to a significant degree. While seen as The One supreme capital G creator God by the Alessians (which the Marukhati Selectives made into a reality to some extent), Akatosh shares the dominion over time with the other major shards of Aka, Auri-El and Alduin. He is *currently* the ascendant one among the trinity, but there was no (significant presence of) Akatosh in the Dawn Era, only Auri-El. Just as there is no significant presence of Auri-El since his departure. And just how Alduin of the late Merethic and 4th eras is but an insignificant shadow (on the cosmic scale) of his true world-destroying kalpa-ending self that will *inevitably* fulfill that role at the end of time, after Akatosh's power fades.
Morrowind needs a remake but just to fix the combat and leveling system because the world and the way the characters interact with the player is so good it's often small details that make a game great like how you can layer clothing and armour and mix and match armour pieces and you can carry a torch lantern or candle and i like how the ordinators in vivec city call the player scum as they pass by i like how different characters react to the player stuff like that
If we're going to talk about true good or evil, it would be that of the creator of mortals. So therefore, the 8 original divines would be those that decide what is good or evil.... then again, weren't they created by Sithis? So, Sithis decides... but... wait... ugh, my head hurts!
Why must morals be decided by the creator? If their morals are to kill babies fuck that I ain't killing babies. That's a flawed premise. Morals are decided by the values of the people, not by the opinion of gods.
Storywalker4 and what if all the people says killing babies is moral? If morals come from the people, then nothing is moral or immoral. Many nations have very different morals. For instance, multiple nations joined the Nazi party and agreed it moral to hunt down Jews. That was a large group of people(millions). Does that mean it's moral? Nations have also deemed it moral to do torturous science experiments on human prisoners. If a large group of people said it was moral, is it moral? What makes your nations morale better than the other? Slavery was universal in the world. Was I moral? Objective morality vs subjective morality. Subjective morality changes and such. But if there is no objective morality, there is no morality at all. It's complicated, and I could write a book about it. However, objective morality can only come from a higher power which designed humanity. This is partly why postmodernists and classical Athiests actually claim that morality doesn't actually exist. No god, no morality. PM me sometime if you want to know more. Otherwise, I hope that wasn't confusing.
Storywalker4 long story short, if morality exists then a god exist. If no god exist, there is no morality. When you try to argue that morality is a construct of humanity and exists, you end up in a pretty mind-blowing paradox.
Considering the ability to do something INTENTIONALLY, Dagoth Ur is celarly the "most" evil amongst the others. But it's very subjective, I myself consider his causes as "good" but at the same time with bad consequences on his population. But in the end, that's what i love in TES, the fact that the world is so realistic that nothing is purely evil or purely good, you can always see both sides
As to the real evil in Nirn, i'd say it's those who follow the gods and those who are avatars of the forces of nature. Men and Mer who crave power over others and latch on to the gods as parasites in the hopes they'll be showered with riches and power.
The difference between Aldun and the Daedric Princes is that Alduin is not purely negative. He might change but the Daedric Princes cannot. Even if its not their fault it dosent change the fact that they are evil. Their nature is just evil and thats it, so if their nature is so it means that they are evil as well. Just as you said Alduin was told that he has to do so ... so he did because he knew he is the one to do so but it dosent mean that his nature is evil. So yes the Daedric Princes are pure evil , only because of the fact they cannot change , if you cannot change you are what you are so you are evil even if you did not chose to be so.
And Meridia is good i know but the example was Dagon sooo yes usually they are evil but a few that are not.. And Peryite is a deadra of diseases only because he did something good that dosent make him a good god.... you saw the afflicted in skyrim they are outcasts
Diseases aren't exactly what I would call "evil", they are like natural disasters: They kill the weak and make the strong even stronger. As far as I know, the Afflicted choosed to serve Peryite, so they aren't victims either. And besides being hostile, their level of sarcasm is disgusting, which doesn't make me feel bad for them.
Well if you consider out of game sources, then one of those daedric princes considered to be the most evil: Mehrunes Dagon, was actually created by Alduin, having previously been known by the Leaper Devil/Demon King
I disagree with the assertion that the Daedra are inherently evil, but victims of their own nature. I see the daedric princes as manifestation of concepts and emotions. Mehrunes Dagon, specifically is the lord of change, passion, freedom, and destructive capability. None of these things are evil in their own right, but rather necessary. Just as a forest fire burns down the trees and scatters the animals, do too does it spread the seeds of certain plants and bring nutrients to the soil. Dagon is that forest fire, there to wipe the slate clean when order becomes stagnant and governments corrupt.
The only villain I knew from this video was Dagoth Ur... Morrowind is a clash of so many different parties that it makes you wonder, which side actually is the good one. Why is Vivec considered to be good? Because he was the winner in the history of Morrowind. So do the good forces always win in the end, or do the winning forces simply define themselves as the good ones?
> Be Dagoth Ur > You, your best friend, and his buddies just defeated the dwarves > they tell you to guard the stuff the dwarves experimented with > get bored and tinker with said stuff > find out it can make you a god > *sweet.jpg* > your friend and his buddies come back and find out you’ve become a god > turns out they made an agreement with a goddess not to use said stuff the dwarves had > *oshit.jpg* > your friend’s buddies proceed to reluctantly kill you > afterwards, they betray and kill your friend and use the stuff the dwarves had to make themselves gods, betraying the goddess > they then overwrite your main religion to one that surrounds themselves and demonizes you > they then allow a foreign empire to lounge around in your homeland Tell me again why this guy was evil?
I think Alduin is definitely evil. If he's really an avatar of Akatosh as the lore suggests and his job is to end the current world so that the next one could come into being, in that sense he's more of a force of nature rather than a sentient being with personal ambitions. However, he does not behave like that. Ending the current world as a task doesn't have to include tormenting and dominating mortals, ruling over them, and other general evil things. These are not the sort of things that an avatar of a God would do. For that reason, I believe Alduin is definitely more evil than we think he is.
Until the Empire gives them justice then they are not evil, the Empire hasn't changed and the Thalmor should take their land one by one and slaughter their people. I don't find them evil, the Empire is and will forever be the evilest force of all the mortal races.
Aludin wasnt evil just misguided by greed. Mehrunes dagon was defo evil like this isn't the first time. Dagoth ur again misguided and was pretty cool as guy
If we're going deep lore theories then the Daedra are not evil, Mehrus Dagon has the will of Magnus. And with Alduin he wasn't originally evil but he did become so once he abandoned his role as a time god. The funny thing about evil characters in ES is that their actions eventually benefit Lorkhan/Akatosh
Don't the towers serve to allow the elves to ascend as Auri-el did? By deactivating them (particularly the Crystal one) they drove the Thalmor to decide to deactivate them all and destroy Mundus. How does that benefit Lorkhan?
Augustei As far as I know the towers were meant to preserve elder magic but they are all destroyed because they were never meant to last in a world of decay and chaotic change. Another reason they didnt last is because Aldmer became arrogant and started worshipoing Daedra, Akatosh didn't like that and sent Pelinal to deal with them, the fall of the towers was their own fault as well... But what do the towers have to do with this ? Lol The point I was trying to make is Nirn is ruled by Akatosh and Lorkhan so whatever an evil character tried to do it was necessary for the greater good. For example, when Mehrus brought an end to Septim era this would eventually pave the way for Lorkhan and Akatosh to bring a new era to Tamriel as the LDB, the "evil" gods arent evil but catalysts necessary for the cycle of Aubris to continue. Characters like the Daedra benefit Lorkhan even if they have their own agenda (Lorkhan is their sibling after all). Another example of evil benefitting him is seen in the Skyrim game, Ulfric is a murderer but killing the high king is necessary for the LDB (Lorkhan) to take over as the rightful ruler of men.
The towers were to bind Nirn into place separating and largely protecting it from Oblivion, their deactivation is what allowed Mehrunes Dagon to force his way into Tamriel in TES4 (The lit dragonfires are what enabled one of these towers, The White-Gold tower) Not all the towers are yet deactivated though, Snow Throat (the mountain the throat of the world) is a tower, and The White Gold towers status is unknown. The Thalmors plan is to deactivate all the towers which would cause Nirn to dissolve back into Oblivion and essentially be destroyed which they believe will allow them to reascend into godhood. The towers are also what the Altmer and particularly the Thalmor believe are another means to achieve divinity, but due to the deactivation of those they controlled they cannot achieve divinity by this means, hence why they want to deactivate them all. Mehrunes Dagon's invasion is what deactivated the Crystal Tower, it was destroyed by his daedra. So Mehrunes Dagon's actions are the reason the Thalmor want to destroy the world, this wouldn't be in Lorkhan's interests in the least. See here for more info: elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Towers
My definition of evil is anything conscious that does anything that is bad towards other conscious beings when there are other options or if it's just for selfish reasons. Meaning anything conscious can do an evil action, even if they don't understand that it's bad. Also meaning that something might live an evil existence, because it's in their nature or they are made that way. After all, nature itself is evil if we judge it the way we judge ourselves. So I'd say most, if not all, Elder scrolls villains are in fact evil or at best doing evils to achieve good.
The only true Evil in TES is Dagoth Ur. The Daedric Princes are embodiments of change, while the Aedra are embodiments of Stasis. Alduin is just serving his purpose as the catalyst for the end of the world. Miraak is a dragonborn who should have died back in the Merethic Era alongside all the other dragon priests. Dagoth ur Claims to be the "Godhead" of reality, his derranged Anti-CHIM status makes him the closest thing to an "Evil" character.
I think the dragonborn is way more evil than alduin, in a sense the Elder Scrolls world is in decay and alduin is the mechanism the allow a new beginning. By destroying alduin the dragonborn let the world go even further into decay if that isn't evil I don't know what is.
I don’t even consider the Thalmor villains. Antagnists? Sure, but that’s just because the game takes place in Skyrim- the place most biased against the Thalmor.
It's not their fault that they are"bad in quality" but their issue which should be fixed (for the good). Since they are sentient and shouldn't be bound by nature. And if people like daedric princes are, then they are jealous or envious of the mortals, particularly the human races with greater control and choice over their free will (I'm saying that they are superior).
Well... we can say, that from mortals point of view, Dagon was evil. Deadra refused to create world with aedra, so I think that every harm they did to Tamriel wasn't justyfied by the nature. Tamriel is not the Oblivion .
Alduin cannot change his nature, he is an Aedra. Auriel, Akatosh and Alduin are all the same being but different aspects (Beginning, running and ending of time respectively). Parthurnax is not a god like Alduin is.
This is why I love alignment in D&D. Good and Evil are measurable, quantifiable things in that game. Finding out if someone is evil is as simple as getting a wizard or cleric to cast 'detect alignment' on them.
Alduin is evil in the sense that in Skyrim, he became a pining, selfish, domineering force. His purpose is the end of time, to devour the old world to make way for the new. His actual duty isn't evil persay. Without wiping the slate clean, the next kalpa cannot be created. However, Alduin in his divine arrogance decided he rather liked using his immense power to be worshipped and subjugate rather than fulfill his duties. Paarthurnax states that it is in a dovah's nature to dominate and control, but Alduin shifted the results of that mindset to be a tyrant instead. Rather than become the death of this cycle, he abused his abilities to be a petty villain. When he devoured souls in Sovengarde, he had no desire to make way for the next kalpa but to regather strength so that he could continue his rebellious tirade longer. Mehrunes Dagon is complicated. He is the sense that he is the embodiment of violence and revolution. He is a free agent, but he is also a being seperated from Nirn and completely driven by his nature. He is kind of like a 40K chaos god, with a lot of similarities to Korne... But where as Korne is a circular manifestation of war, savagery, fairness, and justice in a collective consciousness that he feeds and gets fed from, Mehrunes and the other princes are technically separated from Nirn, but feel the need to meddle regardless. Mehrunes is more of a 'force' separated by the physical avatar that usually represents him. He simply 'is'. Even if he has free will to do other things, he cannot deny his nature since he is, in effect, a deadric representation of war, revolution, and natural disaster. He might feel satisfaction from the results his actions cause, but he is like fire... You expect him to burn down a house... Because that is just what fire does when it is given a chance and opportunity to do so. Dagoth Ur... Most certainly is evil or has a lot of evil intentions. Although completely mad and sympathetic to a degree, he still is a dunmer supremacist who has no qualms about subjugating 'lesser races' and 'cultures'. His connection and influence from the heart of Lorkhan made him an extremely dangerous and sinister threat. Its heavily implied he was achieving a sort of 'anti Chim', where as instead of being aware as an agent in a dream and acting as a lucid dreamer, he was only partially aware of the dream, and his mad vision was slowly BECOMING the dream. He was arrogant, megalomaniacal, cruel, and completely insane. His vision of the world is one that would destroy souls, minds, and bodies. He had to be stopped.
I just had a fleeting thought about how Parthunaax said that he broke free of his innate nature to dominate by using all of his willpower but I mean, he technically is the leader of the Greybeards and so he somewhat still dominates even if it's just for a very small group. Obviously he hasn't broken completely free of his desire to rule. But honestly, who's to say that when The Last Dragonborn slays Alduin's physical body, that eventually sometime in the future, Parthunaax will thirst for dominance once more since there's no apparent impending threat of return from Alduin because his soul kinda went MIA. To clarify, I do get that he could have attempted this beforehand but the thing is, basically every dragon was dead to begin with so Parthunaax wouldn't have an army and wouldn't stand a chance to rule but after all the dragons have been resurrected and Alduin has been slain, he absolutely can.
1) Alduins destiny is not to rule, it's to make way for the next world. Had he not shaken off his destiny we would never be able to defeat him. 2) Deadra don't have natures assigned at birth, they act according to their will. Each deadra could like aedra choose what to do. 3) Back stabbing bastard.
First of all I agree that Alduin did not hold/use his mantle as world-eater and became more defeatable because of that. Alduin is a dragon and Paarthunax informs what dragon nature is like so it was bound to happen, that said he is superior in body and soul so it is probably no worse than domesticating pigs. Not that he conquered the nords as much as allow and encourage his worship before choosing people to rule for him, who became corrupt with power which lead to war. Other daedra aside daedric princes gain influence over what they represent and are affected by their realm of oblivion as shown in the Shivering Isles DLC. That is not to say their realms don't normally reflect their original personality just that it is possible it is a barrier to permanent change.
I think that there is most certainly evil characters in Skyrim but In my opinion no one in Skyrim is exactly “good” you might say all have done at least some bad shit once or twice for instance look at the actions of the empire invading all different kingdoms and basically telling the natives that were there before “hey this is the new rule here now deal with it” same as what the thalmor do the stormcloacks have their evils too
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Imperial Knowledge the video magnificent
Tiber Septim never tried to kill all elves and unmake the world.
I would prefer if you talk about mankar camoran instead of a daedric prince. daedra doesnt even have a choice.
Imperial Knowledge, you are Dutch, good sir! I know for certain that you are
I’m not evil
I’m justice
If evil is subjective then regardless of whether Mehrunes Dagon has free will or freedom at all to do anything other than destroy, that still subjectively makes him the enemy of all that exists, same for alduin. It does not matter what their morality is objectively if they are trying to kill you. Its like "Can you blame the predator for being a predator?" and its like "if its a threat who cares?" Tiber septim may have oppressed elves but elves oppressed humans first.
Dagoth Ur and I'm order
Dagoth Ur dame right
No you are a god
The Sixth House is risen and lord Dagoth is its glory! The day of reckoning is at hand! Curse all N'wah out from our land!
Dagoth Ur is not evil, he is the one true faith! The Sixth House will rise again! Praise Akulakhan and the Tribe Unmourned!
Praise the TRUE tribunal. Almalexia, Sotha Sil and Vivec. The true gods of Dunmer.
Julio Padilla, sure you can dramatize anything to make it seem evil. The fact is everyone is equally capable of evil, you have the potential to be Hitler. Stop pointing the finger and take a look at yourself.
Berat Seyhan, Julio Padilla the Tibunal were vultures feeding off the power of a fallen god, who share responsibility for the Disappearance of thousands of Dwemer. Traitors who abandoned their pacts with Nirevar and Azura killing the former and incurring the wrath of the latter causing their people to lose their former selves forever. Power hungry, genocidal,heartless. Who sounds more like a fascist dictator. The answer is both for different reasons.
But as Cinema-4D says everyone is capable of evil.
But if you want a dead ringer for him from the perspective of the Thalmor Talos Stormcrown/Tiber Septim also comes dangerously close. To a thousand year old Altmer, Praise Talos! must sound like...
"nerevar mysteriously dying"
yeah.... right
the mystery is who exactly killed Nerevar. Some say the Tribunal killed him, while others say he died battling Dagoth Ur. Though, given Almalexia's insane lust for power and her killing Sotha Sil, it's most probable that the Tribunal backstabbed Nerevar. It's just not confirmed though
@@wardeni4806 I think Almalexia alone killed Lord Nerevar and lied to the rest about his death. A mad wife does that.
Just an FYI for you boys, qouted from the uesp.
"Reading the first letter of each paragraph of the Sermon Thirty-Six forms a hidden message: 'Foul Murder'. Additionally, if you take Sermon Twenty-Nine, associate each of the thirty-five listed numbers with a word in its respective sermon, another hidden message is revealed: He was not born a god. His destiny did not lead him to this crime. He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator. Vivec wrote this."
@@puckered6036 Well, Vivec represents duality and contradiction in a lot of ways. Considering the content of the sermons it seems to me that he wrote them mostly for the Nerevarine, and not to establish the tribunal. I believe he does feel remorse and regret, perhaps because he was tempted into making himself a God and how much he actually likes it. He would never admit that openly though. So instead he finds ways to admit his crimes while still persecuting the Dissident Priests and disparaging the Nerevarine cult. Hypocritical as all hell. Also perfectly in line with his personality.
Yes, Vivec wrote all the sermons.
@@puckered6036 Well, Vivec is certainly the most interesting character IMHO. But that doesnt mean one should consider him, or any of the tribunal, to be "the good guys". Vivec knew he needed the Nerevarine to end the threat of Dagoth Ur which would mean he needed to give up his stolen godly powers. Perhaps he was so chill about it because it was not only necessary, but also the right thing to do, since they never should have betrayed Nerervar to begin with.
Vivec is complex and some people seem to think he is perfect. But in the end, he is only Vivec.
I my opinion, regarding Alduin, I think he is and he isn't evil. I think that he isn't evil because of his role as World Eater. It's really his destiny. But I think that he is evil because in Skyrim we discover that he isn't following his destiny. He desires to dominate and enslave the world, not to destroy it (once more, in the Skyrim plot). Because he took a different path, he becomes evil. But, again, my opinion.
João Pedro Gonçalves Guimarães well he isn't meant to destroy the world in the merethic area the end of time is the 4th era thats when alduin is supposed to devour the world..thing is he isn7supposed to enslave mortals in the mean time and devour the souls of dead warriors so yeah he is evil...in the 4th era he returns and actually tries to fulfill his destiny but is still evil and so needs to be stopped
I completely agree with you, i wondered why IK completely side stepped this. Aldiun is evil because that destiny people have been holding him up to all his life, he threw it aside for his own personal whims and gains.
Dagoth Ur is a tragic villain. He became the villain under unfortunate circumstances initially beyond his control.
“Come Nerevar Moon And Star, strike the first blow.”
Biggest lie since the debate on what fire burned Kvatch.
Or blow the first strike eh?
Arena: Jaggar Tharn; yeah evil.
Daggerfall: I don't think this game actually had a final boss/main antagonist.
Battlespire: Mehrunes Dagon; not evil but a manifestation of chaos, rebellion and change. (still a big douche coursing a lot of deaths though)
Redguard: Amiel Richton; I honestly don't know, never played the game but he gives me this very corrupt government official vibe.
Morrowind: Dagoth Ur; More delusional and insane rather then purely evil really.
Oblivion: Mehrunes Dagon; not evil but a manifestation of chaos, rebellion and change. (still a big douche coursing a lot of deaths though)
Skyrim: Alduin; Technically not evil as its his purpose to destroy the world, but he was abusing his power and status, so a blurred corrupt and evil mix.
Online: Molag Ball; Chaos, Murder, Rape and all those other things, yeah totally evil by his very nature.
Legends: I have no fucking clue, and not playing a cards game to find out, Witcher 3 Gwent has left me scared for life as it is.
Blades: Micro-transactions; Yes pure evil in its most corporate form.
The Elder Scrolls - License name sewed - VI: Whoever is at the head of Bethesda and has been calling the retarded shots after Skyrim's release; Pure evil as that moron(s) are trying to drive the company into the ground.
Daggerfalls main villain was Mannimarco, who was the first lich and the leader of the largest coven of necromancers in Tamriels history, The Order Of The Black Worm. He was pretty damn close to Molag Bal terms of evil.
@@deargodwhy9718 I dont think there was a boss fight though, and he was also one of the groups you could ally with.
@@jefthereaper I wouldn't know, I've not played it. All I know is that he's meant to be the main antagonist.
@@deargodwhy9718 No, Mannimarco was one of the potential allies to the player.
I believe the antagonist was Lord Woodborne of Wayrest.
@@jefthereaper Oh. Carry on then.
Alduin: A creation/servant of a god (Akatosh) who was meant to do one thing, but due to his design, wound up losing sight of his original duty and instead began enslaving and ruling over mortals with an iron claw. So at his core, not evil, but due to the effect of time and his dragon nature, became corrupted. However I feel that the events of Skyrim and the dragonborn's defeat of Alduin were essentially Akatosh's way of hitting the "Power Button" on his first born son and basically starting a reboot process in order to have him come back at the end of time to properly do his job as "World Eater".Mehrunes Dagon: Although I feel that the particular traits he represents might not necessarily be good or evil (for instance, "change"), he himself does seem to be pretty evil. He has control over his actions and the free will to exercise his power and influence as he chooses, but instead of doing anything good or neutral, he seemingly chooses to cause death and destruction mostly for his own amusement.Dagoth Ur: Its like what Two Face said in The Dark Knight: "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain". He is a tragic hero turned villain. So he was originally good, but then he got corrupted by the hear of lorkhan and the tools, and pretty much lost his damn mind. He went from a guy who was looking out for his friends and people, to a guy who wanted to play god, create his own god, and rule over everyone in a fairly cruel way. So....wound up becoming evil due to ecternal corruption? is that an option?Thalmor: Douchebags. In all seriousness though....fucking evil, stuck up, racist douchebags with superiority complexes.
Ah, two-face.
Double reference I guess
Alduin is Akatosh.
Dagoth Ur had a noble cause, but the way he wanted to make it was evil...
His ends would have justified the means.
I love all the villians in the elder scrolls. My favorite is Alduin, mainly because unlike other villians, He is what he is and not what he wants to be even if he thinks that. (I know it sounds really complicated) but unlike mehrunes, (which I really like too) deadric princes represent a higher plain or morals that mortals dont understand. To them is just as you said "they are victims of their own nature" But they still hold power to embrace that nature and do with it as they will it to be, which is what makes them so awesome. However Alduin is unique to me than any other villian and Dragon. Because he was made the way that was intended by the gods and he does not embrace his nature but rather HE IS that nature. He also somewhat represents the aedra, the very so called "good gods" in the elder scrolls. And if Akatosh created him and for destruction and domination and even rebirth then doesnt that make the aedra somewhat evil themselves? And doesnt that make alduin the very expresion of domination that akatosh may be hiding or just is?. I find Alduin interesting for this very fact. I am not saying he is perfect and no villain should be perfect, because a villian with flaws that represent very real if not understandable traits make them amazing. its rather those details that make me love elder scrolls and skyrim as a whole. My favorite game elder scrolls game is morrowind but skyrim is a strong second because Alduin is much better than he is presented at face value and much more well detailed than alot other villians like mehrunes dagon in many degrees when you start gathering info about him. Thank you for the great video.
The_Drop Bear Yes but thats what I mean. He is the nature. Since he was made to seek power and dominate. So even if he rebelled, that was still in his nature. Its something I like in alduin. I usually dont like rebel characters but alduin does it well atleast for elder scrolls sake.
Now the real mind fuck is Alduin is not just made by Akatosh but rather he is an aspect of him, they are one in the same, obviously this is subjective in the lore but I think it’s true and with Akatosh using his power at the end of both Oblivion and Daggerfall in a big way he is likely dormant haveing spent much of his divine power like the original spirits did and which is also why the empire once protected by his favor is falling. So then the other aspect Alduin was destined to appear in his place and like Alduin Akatosh turned from his path when he allowed and in fact caused the warp in the west, it’s his job to keep time stable not play with it to create a desired outcome or his continued support of the empire, he metals in the affairs of mortals more than any other god just in matters of fate that can’t be so easily seen, it could be argued that the last Dragonborn was born by his will that you may be a Avatar of Akatosh fighting Alduin to become the more powerful of the two again
For example you defeate jiggalag to take back power for Sheagorath and in the process become him, does that mean your dragon soul is Akatosh feeding on his own children the dragons to regain power?
There are many instances in real life religion were there is a Mesia somone who is the ‘daughter/son’ of a god at yet they are meant to be in a sense actually that god themself just in mortal form.
In this sense Alduin could be the mesia of Akatosh, both him himself and his son in a way
Well in Christianity is there no god when there’s Jesus? They interact even though they’re supposed to be in a sense one in the same.
And how does the warp in the West make any more or less sense than Alduin being pushed forward in time? Time is a weird mess in Tamriel and if Akatosh is time itself then how was there a time before him?
That’s just the way mortals perceive him and instill the concept of his power.
And the Nord Panthion has the same amount of gods but no Akatosh, yes they talk about Akatosh in Skyrim but that was one of the issues people had with Skyrim breaking its own lore, the in universe explaination is simply cultural drift but the point is why would the Nords only be aware of Alduin if Akatosh was not the same god?
What’s more is he’s Ariel to the Elves and not quite the same as imperials idea of him.
All of it points to difrent aspects of him, pehpase alternate timelines of him where they all start as one but being split in timelines each is another aspect of him same as the many people who make up Talos.
The only villains in the Elder Scrolls series that I feel are absolutely evil are the Tribunal. Well, Almalexia and Vivec, at least. I'm still on the fence about Sotha Sil.
Out of curiosity why do you think they are the only evil villains?
Vivec, on some level, eventually came to regret his actions, and helped the Nerevarine right his wrongs. He was still scheming and devious, but ultimately chose to help the one who would destroy his divinity and immortality both because Morrowind was more important than he was, and because he was a sore loser.
@@Thesaurus_Rex He still left Baar Dau hanging over his city the entire time he knew he was losing his powers, and that goes for both the original Morrowind game and ESO's Morrowind expansion.
Watch a playthrough of Elder Scrolls Legends' Clockwork City storyline. You'll see how Sotha Sil spent the remainder of his immortality.
I feel sorry for Daegoth. He knew there was a risk, which made him easiest to corrupt.
The thalmor could be like
“ Yeah Talos is a god but we just dislike him. Plus we’re elves so we have no reason to care about him “
Daggroth is not evil he's damaged
Dagoth ur tells you his plans.
“Who hurt you?”
Dagoth ur Akulacries
“That’s okay let it all out”
That's like saying that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold weren't evil, only mental unstable, which yes they were evil
"Dagoth ur its evil,because he was an ELF
Mehrunes dagon and molag bal are evil,because they are Daedras,ELVEN GODS
Thalmors are evil.....because.....come on.....ELVENS
Alduin....its not evil.....because he are an NORDIC god ;)"-supremacist stormcloak nord,4 era
Alduin is an interesting one. After you defeat him and are atop the throat of the world, along the dialog options paarthanax says that alduin forbode his destiny, reaching for the power of his father, akatosh. This is paraphrasing and I believe this dialogue appears when you select to say "Alduin brought this on himself", But either way I recommend you check it out for that (imo) impactful information.
Evil is a matter of perspective. Alduin killed the living and consumed the souls of the dead, yes. But he was sent from the gods to fulfill the prophecy of the dragons return. Calling him evil is from the perspective of a mortal, whereas the ethereal or immortal would simply call him a demigod performing his duty. He was still below the high Divines, and specifically akatosh, being his father/ creator.
From the perspective of a mortal with something to lose, then yes. Alduin was evil and a bane to their existence. But from any other view, the dragons return is nothing different from the oblivion crisis, dagon, molag bal, dagoth, etc. The mortal realm of nirn is nothing more than a front for greater forces to fight on. Even if a daedra did completely conquer or destroy the planet, they couldn't possibly do anything greater than that, as the aedra still reign supreme. So for the sake of convenience, the only REAL existence with a life worth fearing for would be the realm of mortals.
Great video! The quality of your videos has improved substantially, as has your english. Im glad to see this channel taking off as there is not nearly enough dedicated elder scrolls lore channels. Keep up the good work!
I feel like while it’s true that mehrunes Dagon’s nature is impossible for him to resist, thus making his actions technically not his fault, I think it’s safe to say that the ideas he represents can be seen as evil, especially in the context of him destroying Tamriel with his army of invading daedra
Hmmm. Well, the Daedric Princes once got together and changed Jygglag's nature into his exact opposite. However, they could never actually destroy Jygglag and eventually he and his alter ego became entirely separate Princes. So I do think that it's possible for a Daedric Prince to change their nature, but once they change their nature someone/something else immediately mantles their former being. Thus Daedric Princes do not appear to ever really change. This also possibly explains how more and more Daedra appear throughout time and history.
Not gonna lie Alduin and Dagoth are both partly evil and good
But but ok Alduin is partly evil because he doesn't have to destroy worlds
But Dagoth was once as it seems a nice guy but he became a ruler with a iron fist and that is why hes evil
I think that Dagoth Ur isn't evil, he's doing what he thinks is right for his people. His actions are reprehensible and it's in pretty much everyone's best interests that he be stopped, but he's ultimately just misled and maybe a little bit insane, not evil. And, to some extent, he was betrayed by his fellows, and deserves some form of justice against the Tribunal. He is very pro-slavery, so he's not a good guy by any means, though.
Mehrunes Dagon is hard to really know, since Daedra have different systems of morality, and what we see as heinous could be polite or kind in their eyes. So we can't really know.
Alduin, though, is evil. He abandoned his natural purpose (destroying one world to make way for the next) in favor of becoming a conqueror and a despot, solely because he wanted to.
A few others that aren't main antagonists:
Jyggalag can't really help what he does, and he's more a prisoner of the cycle of the Shivering Isles than intentionally doing harm. And he's a Daedra again, though, since all the other Daedric Princes seem to hate him, it's possible that before his imprisonment, he was "evil" by Daedric standards.
Hircine has the Daedra problem again.
Almalexia wanted to keep her power at any cost, even going so far as to kill one of her Tribunal fellows, and attempting to kill the Nerevarine. Of Almsilvi, she's probably the only one who could be said to be truly evil, though the betrayal of Nerevar and Dagoth was evil on the part of all 3 members of the Tribunal.
Umaril is a bit difficult to tell. His character isn't very well developed. He seems to have had a similar motivation to Dagoth Ur, and he worshiped one of the "friendly" Daedric Princes, Meridia. So, while I am unwilling to put him down as a good guy, I don't think we have enough information to truly condemn him as evil either.
Miraak is evil. Betrayed his people to become a dragon priest, then betrayed the dragons to join Hermaeas Mora, _then_ betrayed Hermaeas Mora, all in the name of power and knowledge. And he's also just kind of a jerk. Kill your own dragons, dude. Wait, he does that too. Dang this guy is cold.
Harkon is also probably evil. He killed his own subjects to become a vampire lord, and was willing to kill his wife or daughter in order to blot out the sun. While he might have tried to justify his actions through altruism, he clearly just wanted more and more power, to the point that he failed to consider just how idiotic his aspirations were. There is a chance that he isn't actually evil, and just incredibly stupid instead. Not sure which is worse.
Molag Bal. Daedric morality problems. Again.
The Thalmor are on the brink. They're trying to save their people from what they see as a cursed fate forced upon them by Lorkhan, but their methods leave a LOT to be desired.
*Gase upon the heart of Akulakhan, friend or foe come towards me without stealth*
Me and my friends here fo Brazil we love your channel and your videos about Elder Scrools, a shame that does not have Portuguese subtitles in your videos, at least I try to understand phonetically hahahaha
Would add them if I spoke portuguese. But I don't haha
Nice to see fellow Brazilians enjoying this kind of content.
Also, thanks @Imperial Knowledge for the video
I can understand that Dagon isn't entirely evil, as change and ambition aren't always evil. But Molag Bal is most certainly evil. Rape is always evil, and murder is always evil.
And Daedra can change. That was the entire point of The Shivering Isles.
Dagoth Ur isnt evil, in some ways we all can see ourselves in him, he's been betrayed, he was left alone with the heart, corrupted, and then his friend may or may not (fucking time space shit) have been killed by the tribunal who then come in and defeat him and use the heart for themselves to make themselves gods and cursing the chimer. In some way his own ruling is best for his race in his warped mind
Great videos! Can you do a history on the Breton race please??? Thanks for taking the time.
I believe I already did a piece on the bretons and high rock... But I don't remember if I did their history. Will check, and add your request to my list :D
Imperial Knowledge thank you very much for responding, you are my favorite channel for elder scrolls. I love your Breton video and I watch it nearly every day. Perhaps I’m just greedy for more lore because that are my favorite race. I’m curious of your thoughts on the future of high rock. The Bretons are the only proof of a true peace between human and elf. Will high rock stay loyal to the fading empire or could the elves maybe persuade them to return to the fold?? Your theory from the Breton video could play a factor in high rocks alliance as well. Thank you again for listening to me and for making such amazing content to enjoy. Have a great week!
Thanks! I am currently wrapping up the videos for the coming week (For when i am on holiday) in a week I will start working on videos again, and maybe do something more on high rock. It is on my request list atm and I will pick something new from that list in a week :D
I just found this channel and omg I love the content!
Morrowind: yeah
Oblivion: more chaotic than evil really.
Skyrim: totally, Alduin ruled as a dictator over dragons and mortals alike.
Technically dragons are superior beings which reflects in their godlike souls so it is about as evil as humans domesticating pigs. Now his dragon priests were fellow humans who became corrupt which caused the mortals to rebel against the priests and the dragons who gave them power. Alduin is more arrogant, although he admittedly didn't care or even didn't know that the priests became corrupt. The problem with Alduin is that he wanted to be worshiped like a god (as the nords already chose to do) rather than truly rule humans so he had other humans do that. A Skyrim ruled and protected by dragons wouldn't have to worry so much about the Empire, Thalmor, Miraak, the Dark Brotherhood, vampires, dragon attacks, daedra invading, or much else. Paarthunax the Wise for High King! Do you respect the old nordic ways and the Greybeards? Vote for Paarthunax the greatest Greybeard to ever live! He hates the Thalmor too and has enough power to do something about it!
As for Alduin, is it really evil to destroy, in order to create? If the nature of the ES universe is a cycle, then shouldn't he perpetuate that cycle, instead of breaking it?
"What is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"
how about a sequel to this video? with other villians? Mannimarco? Jyggalag? Mancar Cameron?
12:33 this section ignores the big part that the thalmor are committing genocide on other races within their territory and throughout, along with the fact they’re trying to unmake the world
There's so much to talk about after watching this video. To start off:
It's great how you try to look at both sides for all of these villains. As you have said "good and evil" are words you personally use to describe a person or an action and due to this they are both just subjective and based on your ideology. Just because something is your anthagonist doesn't mean it's evil. So all those villains in the Elder Scrolls are not particularly evil, but they have goals and want to achieve things you as a player don't want to let happen.
Even though I don't want to go into more details, understanding that the world and the people are not just "good and evil" or "black and white" will also give you a different look at real world history and politics. Also in our world I feel like people often see themselves as the "good" ones fighting for the right thing without questioning the own position (because thinking like this is just easy).
tl;dr Great Video. Great topic. Good work here!
Awesome video man! Personally I enjoy perspective arguments so this is pretty awesome
I think alduin is a good example of the fine line that separates an evil being from an evil force. To say that Alduin is inherently evil for trying to fulfill what as far as he's aware of is his destiny is easy to argue against, however if any mortal in the game were to describe alduin as a force of evil...well that's harder to argue against because any group of mortal beings is going to view annihilation of their world unfavorably and that's what alduin represents and claims to desire
As a scholar and follower of Philosophy, (my favorite is Friedrich Nietzsche), I sincerely appreciate the way you did this video.
Hey Imperial Knowledge, I have a theory on the dwemer's disappearance. Was wondering what you may think. The Ehlnofey, once descendants of the Aedra, were once godly beings who were stripped of their power and forced to live on Nirn. A long time later, we have the dwemer, power hungry people that descended from the Old Ehlnofey just as all mer do. They were obsessed with obtaining godhood, and maybe they did, to an extent. My theory goes that when the dwemer used the tools of Kagrenac, they reverted to their previous glorious selves as god-like Ehlnofey, just as they were before the creation of Nirn. The Tribunal obtained god-like powers after using the tools, but what's to say they didn't use them in a different way, leading to them remaining on Nirn. Or maybe they were given a choice by some higher power of staying or joining the other Ehlonfey. Elves are power hungry, especially the Altmer, it's in their nature. So were the dwarves. I think their Ehlnofey origin is the reason for this. Some part in every elf's mind wants to regain the power they once had.
What about the guy in Skyrim who disappears after using the tools then can be summoned as a ghost? How does he play into it?
fuck, you got me there. The only excuse I can come up with is that men are technically wandering Ehlnofey, so perhaps his spirit returns to the plane of the gods or ehlnofey. Then his ghost that is summoned is like how dremora can be summoned from another plane of existence.
Yugo and why did the entire dwemer race (except one) dissapear but with arniel gane (the Guy in skyrim) only one dissapears? I am actually curious about this (would be an interesting video)
Because Arniel didn't use all the tools together and he didn't have the heart of lorkhan to use either.
The Dwemer became the Numidium. All of their souls were absorbed by the Brass God to become its "Divine Skin" after Kagrenac used his tools to meddle with the Heart for the last time. In essence, the Dwemer truly did reach divinity, by becoming One. Yagrum still exists because he was travelling the realms of Oblivion at the time.
I believe that mehrunes is a manifestation of ambition, destruction and change. He has no free will. That is the question of this video: does free will exist?
I believe Alduin was evil when he abaddoned his destiny in ancient days to rule over men.
I feel like Dagoth Ur isn't truly evil. I think he's more misguided & when he learns of the Neravars return something in him lets the Neravar win. Letting him have a chance to win by telling him to get the tools. The drawing him to the heart which needs to be destroyed to defeat the tribunal which all makes me think somewhere in him was the man that admired the Neravar & trusted him & wanted to give him a chance to end the false gods of the Tribunal.
The Daedric Princes as well as Alduin are forces of nature, they aren't evil, they just are.
its not only about the motives but also about the methods they use. the thalmor? their actions might be a *bit* over the top only for the sake of revenge for the conquest of alinor by tiber septim
There is nothing evil in Alduin’s mission.
Akatosh resets the history of Mundus and Tamriel whenever he thinks necessary.
It’s not an Apocalypse so to say, that’s just a reset. No one in Tamriel was going to perish, they would just be frozen in time and left behind.
The thing that Alduin burnt down villages was due to him being a dragon, that has nothing to do with his mission in Tamriel.
The Dragonborn fights him in order to foil his mission of resetting time, not just because that’s a smelly scaly dark flying lizard he personally doesn’t like.
Is it canon that Alduin is a fragment or Nordic aspect of akatosh/auriel being only the end of time where auriel is beginning and akatosh present? Or is canon that he’s only a dragon but the strongest one?
Alduin is the Nordic version of the Time God.
Alduin refused to destroy the world. He wanted to rule it. He didn't want to follow his destiny. So alduin is clearly evil.
Hi Zork, thanks for the video. Your philosofical analysis about the social, cultural and moral aspects about the TES Universe are so good that I can't stop waiting you make them on the videos.
So, about the subject, I agree with you in the most part of your analysis, except by The Thalmor. Yes, the Empire has a historical debt with the Altmer of Summerset Isles, and the angry, the frustration and lost of beloved family relatives still lives in some of them. As you stated on the video, the people of Summerset are now living in a Nazi political and social regime, and the ideology of supremacy is the main point of why they are ACTING evil, but not necessarily ARE evil (at least when we think about the common citizens on the Aldmeri Dominion). The Thalmor, specifically, are a political party, a structured and organized group that supports the Altmer Racial Supremacy, and that ideology is evil, because see ALL other races as inferior ones, and we know that this is wrong. An Altmer can't breath underwater like an Argonian, can't see in the darkness like a Khajiit, can't be naturally strong as an Orsimer, and the examples list goes...
So, the desire of the Dominion's leadership are the evil aspect on this Cold War scenario. If the Dominion only had splitted from the Empire, and some centuries after started a comercial and political relationship with the Empire, soon, it could inspire the other provincies to chase their indenpendencies, like happened to Hammerfell, Blackmarsh (now Argonia) and, possibly, in the future Lore, Skyrim.
Tamriel in these times could It be in the way of being a federate State, with ALL the provincies with their autonomies, but with some common laws and general representation, like happens here in Brazil, or even in the United States, the main example of this system. But I think Bethesda wants to keep that card on the sleeve for the future.
Thank you so much again for the video, and sorry for any mistakes on my large text. And, as a suggestion for the next video, could you please talk about the nobility system of the Empire, or maybe, a opinion video about the technology of Tamriel entering in the Industrial Era after the Cold War/Second Great War (with the possible re-introduction of the Dwemmer Engineering in the process)?
I would define evil as "Performing acts that harm others with no motivation other than to cause harm" This lack of other motivation includes taking pleasure in doing the harmful acts. It is not evil if it is a pleasure seeking behavior, it is just selfish. In order for it to be evil, it must be done even if there is no pleasure or self-gain. Evil is a selfless act.
I have noticed that high rock looks like scandanavia and Hamerfell looks like rest of europe.
The Thalmor want to "Erase man from the equation" Genocide is evil so they are 100% evil. The other 3 are debatable since their actions are a consequence of them failing to overcome their nature; Alduin's nature is that of dragons wishing to dominate all it sees, which is a preferable alternative to Alduin's other nature and designated purpose which is to destroy the world which by conquering the world he does not undertake, Mehrune's Dagon as you said is a daedric prince, their nature technically sort of can be overcome but the last time that happened it involved a curse by all the other daedric princes on Jygglag so we don't know if they can actually overcome it themselves, and Dagoth Ur was driven insane by the heart of Lorkhan, so blaming him would be like blaming a crazy person for punching someone I guess, though his plan to dominate the world involved spreading the disease corpus which essentially involved turning all the people of the world into mindless zombies, removing their free will and turning the world into slaves is a pretty evil action.
no proof in game only from mk
The Thalmor don't want to erase Man, that's Kirkbride fiction.
No, its in the in game book Rising Threat. They do numerous pogroms, ethnic cleansing of those who are not "of the blood of the Aldmer" in other words, man.
Written by a biased author likely exaggerating
They purged the people of the Summerset Isles because they wanted the Isles to be solely inhabited by Altmer. That's all.
One thing is for certain, Dagoth Ur is the best written villain in the ES series.
It’s not always stated, but it’s pretty easy to justify most Elder Scrolls villains.
Jagar Tharn: “I was trying to save all you fools from the Oblivion Crisis!”
Daggerfall villains: “It was the PC who BROKE TIME. Don’t hate the non-character players, hate the game.”
Dagoth Ur: [Insane ramblings from the perspective of Voryn Dagoth, an Anakin type who got Darth Vadered through no fault of his own due to possession by an ancient force of absolute chaos, the Sharmat]
Mythic Dawn: “Time is the weapon of a fascist alien who invaded Nirn, and we can escape it. We’re assisting in the reclamation of stolen property, and actually achieving immortality (for ourselves) in the process.”
Alduin: “It was my nature to end all this. That was Akatosh’s first thought, and my order. Did you want that? No? But you want me to sit around until some selfish idiots break time entirely and you all just stop existing? I can’t win with you people.”
I dislike how dragons are described as creations/offspring of Akatosh in Skyrim, with Alduin as firstborn. All of them have existed since before the beginning of time, before Akatosh himself really manifested to a significant degree. While seen as The One supreme capital G creator God by the Alessians (which the Marukhati Selectives made into a reality to some extent), Akatosh shares the dominion over time with the other major shards of Aka, Auri-El and Alduin. He is *currently* the ascendant one among the trinity, but there was no (significant presence of) Akatosh in the Dawn Era, only Auri-El. Just as there is no significant presence of Auri-El since his departure. And just how Alduin of the late Merethic and 4th eras is but an insignificant shadow (on the cosmic scale) of his true world-destroying kalpa-ending self that will *inevitably* fulfill that role at the end of time, after Akatosh's power fades.
so no Mannimarco on the list that is disappointing that dude was perty evil
Morrowind needs a remake but just to fix the combat and leveling system because the world and the way the characters interact with the player is so good it's often small details that make a game great like how you can layer clothing and armour and mix and match armour pieces and you can carry a torch lantern or candle and i like how the ordinators in vivec city call the player scum as they pass by i like how different characters react to the player stuff like that
If we're going to talk about true good or evil, it would be that of the creator of mortals. So therefore, the 8 original divines would be those that decide what is good or evil.... then again, weren't they created by Sithis? So, Sithis decides... but... wait... ugh, my head hurts!
James Reilly I'm pretty sure it was the other way around. Sithis is the nothingness that always existed
Why must morals be decided by the creator? If their morals are to kill babies fuck that I ain't killing babies. That's a flawed premise. Morals are decided by the values of the people, not by the opinion of gods.
Storywalker4 and what if all the people says killing babies is moral? If morals come from the people, then nothing is moral or immoral. Many nations have very different morals. For instance, multiple nations joined the Nazi party and agreed it moral to hunt down Jews. That was a large group of people(millions). Does that mean it's moral? Nations have also deemed it moral to do torturous science experiments on human prisoners. If a large group of people said it was moral, is it moral? What makes your nations morale better than the other? Slavery was universal in the world. Was I moral?
Objective morality vs subjective morality. Subjective morality changes and such. But if there is no objective morality, there is no morality at all. It's complicated, and I could write a book about it. However, objective morality can only come from a higher power which designed humanity. This is partly why postmodernists and classical Athiests actually claim that morality doesn't actually exist. No god, no morality. PM me sometime if you want to know more. Otherwise, I hope that wasn't confusing.
James Reilly my bad
Storywalker4 long story short, if morality exists then a god exist. If no god exist, there is no morality. When you try to argue that morality is a construct of humanity and exists, you end up in a pretty mind-blowing paradox.
Considering the ability to do something INTENTIONALLY, Dagoth Ur is celarly the "most" evil amongst the others. But it's very subjective, I myself consider his causes as "good" but at the same time with bad consequences on his population. But in the end, that's what i love in TES, the fact that the world is so realistic that nothing is purely evil or purely good, you can always see both sides
4:07 Aliduin did nothing wrong (in his mind)
As to the real evil in Nirn, i'd say it's those who follow the gods and those who are avatars of the forces of nature. Men and Mer who crave power over others and latch on to the gods as parasites in the hopes they'll be showered with riches and power.
The difference between Aldun and the Daedric Princes is that Alduin is not purely negative. He might change but the Daedric Princes cannot. Even if its not their fault it dosent change the fact that they are evil. Their nature is just evil and thats it, so if their nature is so it means that they are evil as well. Just as you said Alduin was told that he has to do so ... so he did because he knew he is the one to do so but it dosent mean that his nature is evil. So yes the Daedric Princes are pure evil , only because of the fact they cannot change , if you cannot change you are what you are so you are evil even if you did not chose to be so.
Daedric Princes are not all evil, who told you that?
In TES IV, Peryite tells you to rescue some souls from Oblivion. If that ain't some Jesus Christ type of quest, I don't know what that is.
And Meridia is good i know but the example was Dagon sooo yes usually they are evil but a few that are not.. And Peryite is a deadra of diseases only because he did something good that dosent make him a good god.... you saw the afflicted in skyrim they are outcasts
Diseases aren't exactly what I would call "evil", they are like natural disasters: They kill the weak and make the strong even stronger. As far as I know, the Afflicted choosed to serve Peryite, so they aren't victims either. And besides being hostile, their level of sarcasm is disgusting, which doesn't make me feel bad for them.
Well if you consider out of game sources, then one of those daedric princes considered to be the most evil: Mehrunes Dagon, was actually created by Alduin, having previously been known by the Leaper Devil/Demon King
I disagree with the assertion that the Daedra are inherently evil, but victims of their own nature. I see the daedric princes as manifestation of concepts and emotions. Mehrunes Dagon, specifically is the lord of change, passion, freedom, and destructive capability. None of these things are evil in their own right, but rather necessary. Just as a forest fire burns down the trees and scatters the animals, do too does it spread the seeds of certain plants and bring nutrients to the soil. Dagon is that forest fire, there to wipe the slate clean when order becomes stagnant and governments corrupt.
The only villain I knew from this video was Dagoth Ur... Morrowind is a clash of so many different parties that it makes you wonder, which side actually is the good one. Why is Vivec considered to be good? Because he was the winner in the history of Morrowind. So do the good forces always win in the end, or do the winning forces simply define themselves as the good ones?
> Be Dagoth Ur
> You, your best friend, and his buddies just defeated the dwarves
> they tell you to guard the stuff the dwarves experimented with
> get bored and tinker with said stuff
> find out it can make you a god
> *sweet.jpg*
> your friend and his buddies come back and find out you’ve become a god
> turns out they made an agreement with a goddess not to use said stuff the dwarves had
> *oshit.jpg*
> your friend’s buddies proceed to reluctantly kill you
> afterwards, they betray and kill your friend and use the stuff the dwarves had to make themselves gods, betraying the goddess
> they then overwrite your main religion to one that surrounds themselves and demonizes you
> they then allow a foreign empire to lounge around in your homeland
Tell me again why this guy was evil?
I think Alduin is definitely evil. If he's really an avatar of Akatosh as the lore suggests and his job is to end the current world so that the next one could come into being, in that sense he's more of a force of nature rather than a sentient being with personal ambitions. However, he does not behave like that. Ending the current world as a task doesn't have to include tormenting and dominating mortals, ruling over them, and other general evil things. These are not the sort of things that an avatar of a God would do. For that reason, I believe Alduin is definitely more evil than we think he is.
Nice video! I have to admit you got a point about the Thalmor but they still do a lot of terrible stuff too so I guess you can consider them evil
11:45 Thalmor is Evil by simply repeating The same error Tiber Septim did to them...
Until the Empire gives them justice then they are not evil, the Empire hasn't changed and the Thalmor should take their land one by one and slaughter their people. I don't find them evil, the Empire is and will forever be the evilest force of all the mortal races.
Let's hear it for my man Mehrunes!
Believing you're not evil is not the same as not being evil
Aludin wasnt evil just misguided by greed.
Mehrunes dagon was defo evil like this isn't the first time.
Dagoth ur again misguided and was pretty cool as guy
If we're going deep lore theories then the Daedra are not evil, Mehrus Dagon has the will of Magnus. And with Alduin he wasn't originally evil but he did become so once he abandoned his role as a time god. The funny thing about evil characters in ES is that their actions eventually benefit Lorkhan/Akatosh
Don't the towers serve to allow the elves to ascend as Auri-el did? By deactivating them (particularly the Crystal one) they drove the Thalmor to decide to deactivate them all and destroy Mundus. How does that benefit Lorkhan?
Augustei As far as I know the towers were meant to preserve elder magic but they are all destroyed because they were never meant to last in a world of decay and chaotic change. Another reason they didnt last is because Aldmer became arrogant and started worshipoing Daedra, Akatosh didn't like that and sent Pelinal to deal with them, the fall of the towers was their own fault as well... But what do the towers have to do with this ? Lol
The point I was trying to make is Nirn is ruled by Akatosh and Lorkhan so whatever an evil character tried to do it was necessary for the greater good. For example, when Mehrus brought an end to Septim era this would eventually pave the way for Lorkhan and Akatosh to bring a new era to Tamriel as the LDB, the "evil" gods arent evil but catalysts necessary for the cycle of Aubris to continue. Characters like the Daedra benefit Lorkhan even if they have their own agenda (Lorkhan is their sibling after all).
Another example of evil benefitting him is seen in the Skyrim game, Ulfric is a murderer but killing the high king is necessary for the LDB (Lorkhan) to take over as the rightful ruler of men.
The towers were to bind Nirn into place separating and largely protecting it from Oblivion, their deactivation is what allowed Mehrunes Dagon to force his way into Tamriel in TES4 (The lit dragonfires are what enabled one of these towers, The White-Gold tower) Not all the towers are yet deactivated though, Snow Throat (the mountain the throat of the world) is a tower, and The White Gold towers status is unknown. The Thalmors plan is to deactivate all the towers which would cause Nirn to dissolve back into Oblivion and essentially be destroyed which they believe will allow them to reascend into godhood.
The towers are also what the Altmer and particularly the Thalmor believe are another means to achieve divinity, but due to the deactivation of those they controlled they cannot achieve divinity by this means, hence why they want to deactivate them all. Mehrunes Dagon's invasion is what deactivated the Crystal Tower, it was destroyed by his daedra. So Mehrunes Dagon's actions are the reason the Thalmor want to destroy the world, this wouldn't be in Lorkhan's interests in the least.
See here for more info: elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Towers
@@Augustei What about the Adamantine Tower?
Very good video
Would you be able to do a video about the concept of "Landfall"?
Mehrunes Dagon was not created at the dawn era, he was created along with Lyg, I am pretty sure
Jasper Gregorio that’s Molag Bal
My definition of evil is anything conscious that does anything that is bad towards other conscious beings when there are other options or if it's just for selfish reasons. Meaning anything conscious can do an evil action, even if they don't understand that it's bad. Also meaning that something might live an evil existence, because it's in their nature or they are made that way. After all, nature itself is evil if we judge it the way we judge ourselves.
So I'd say most, if not all, Elder scrolls villains are in fact evil or at best doing evils to achieve good.
The only true Evil in TES is Dagoth Ur. The Daedric Princes are embodiments of change, while the Aedra are embodiments of Stasis. Alduin is just serving his purpose as the catalyst for the end of the world. Miraak is a dragonborn who should have died back in the Merethic Era alongside all the other dragon priests. Dagoth ur Claims to be the "Godhead" of reality, his derranged Anti-CHIM status makes him the closest thing to an "Evil" character.
Sociology 101 when applied to fictional baddies, lol. Interesting and silly
Parthurnaax also had Kyne’s influence
I think the dragonborn is way more evil than alduin, in a sense the Elder Scrolls world is in decay and alduin is the mechanism the allow a new beginning. By destroying alduin the dragonborn let the world go even further into decay if that isn't evil I don't know what is.
"if billy raper of babies doesnt know that its wrong then he can be evil"
I don’t remember if I gave this idea already sorry if I did but you should do one on ayleids
Dagoth Ur welcomes you my sweet persistent friend🎵
I don’t even consider the Thalmor villains. Antagnists? Sure, but that’s just because the game takes place in Skyrim- the place most biased against the Thalmor.
It's not their fault that they are"bad in quality" but their issue which should be fixed (for the good). Since they are sentient and shouldn't be bound by nature. And if people like daedric princes are, then they are jealous or envious of the mortals, particularly the human races with greater control and choice over their free will (I'm saying that they are superior).
Well... we can say, that from mortals point of view, Dagon was evil. Deadra refused to create world with aedra, so I think that every harm they did to Tamriel wasn't justyfied by the nature. Tamriel is not the Oblivion .
Tiber Septim invading The summerset isles was like someone invading nazi germany.
Alduin cannot change his nature, he is an Aedra. Auriel, Akatosh and Alduin are all the same being but different aspects (Beginning, running and ending of time respectively). Parthurnax is not a god like Alduin is.
This is why I love alignment in D&D. Good and Evil are measurable, quantifiable things in that game. Finding out if someone is evil is as simple as getting a wizard or cleric to cast 'detect alignment' on them.
Alduin is evil in the sense that in Skyrim, he became a pining, selfish, domineering force. His purpose is the end of time, to devour the old world to make way for the new. His actual duty isn't evil persay. Without wiping the slate clean, the next kalpa cannot be created. However, Alduin in his divine arrogance decided he rather liked using his immense power to be worshipped and subjugate rather than fulfill his duties. Paarthurnax states that it is in a dovah's nature to dominate and control, but Alduin shifted the results of that mindset to be a tyrant instead. Rather than become the death of this cycle, he abused his abilities to be a petty villain. When he devoured souls in Sovengarde, he had no desire to make way for the next kalpa but to regather strength so that he could continue his rebellious tirade longer.
Mehrunes Dagon is complicated. He is the sense that he is the embodiment of violence and revolution. He is a free agent, but he is also a being seperated from Nirn and completely driven by his nature. He is kind of like a 40K chaos god, with a lot of similarities to Korne... But where as Korne is a circular manifestation of war, savagery, fairness, and justice in a collective consciousness that he feeds and gets fed from, Mehrunes and the other princes are technically separated from Nirn, but feel the need to meddle regardless. Mehrunes is more of a 'force' separated by the physical avatar that usually represents him. He simply 'is'. Even if he has free will to do other things, he cannot deny his nature since he is, in effect, a deadric representation of war, revolution, and natural disaster. He might feel satisfaction from the results his actions cause, but he is like fire... You expect him to burn down a house... Because that is just what fire does when it is given a chance and opportunity to do so.
Dagoth Ur... Most certainly is evil or has a lot of evil intentions. Although completely mad and sympathetic to a degree, he still is a dunmer supremacist who has no qualms about subjugating 'lesser races' and 'cultures'. His connection and influence from the heart of Lorkhan made him an extremely dangerous and sinister threat. Its heavily implied he was achieving a sort of 'anti Chim', where as instead of being aware as an agent in a dream and acting as a lucid dreamer, he was only partially aware of the dream, and his mad vision was slowly BECOMING the dream. He was arrogant, megalomaniacal, cruel, and completely insane. His vision of the world is one that would destroy souls, minds, and bodies. He had to be stopped.
At 7:00, Imperialknowledge accidentally describes the plothole with Calvinism.....😂
1:47 Um, I think you mean "by 'Murica (with help from other people)".
I just had a fleeting thought about how Parthunaax said that he broke free of his innate nature to dominate by using all of his willpower but I mean, he technically is the leader of the Greybeards and so he somewhat still dominates even if it's just for a very small group. Obviously he hasn't broken completely free of his desire to rule. But honestly, who's to say that when The Last Dragonborn slays Alduin's physical body, that eventually sometime in the future, Parthunaax will thirst for dominance once more since there's no apparent impending threat of return from Alduin because his soul kinda went MIA. To clarify, I do get that he could have attempted this beforehand but the thing is, basically every dragon was dead to begin with so Parthunaax wouldn't have an army and wouldn't stand a chance to rule but after all the dragons have been resurrected and Alduin has been slain, he absolutely can.
Dagon was made to dominate and usurp. He's doing exactly what the Magna Ge made him to do.
Imperial is a Thalmor sympathizer... shocker
Harder question: what is evil
I like your definition
1) Alduins destiny is not to rule, it's to make way for the next world. Had he not shaken off his destiny we would never be able to defeat him.
2) Deadra don't have natures assigned at birth, they act according to their will. Each deadra could like aedra choose what to do.
3) Back stabbing bastard.
Dagoth Ur not backstabbed Nerevar. Vivec killed him
First of all I agree that Alduin did not hold/use his mantle as world-eater and became more defeatable because of that. Alduin is a dragon and Paarthunax informs what dragon nature is like so it was bound to happen, that said he is superior in body and soul so it is probably no worse than domesticating pigs. Not that he conquered the nords as much as allow and encourage his worship before choosing people to rule for him, who became corrupt with power which lead to war. Other daedra aside daedric princes gain influence over what they represent and are affected by their realm of oblivion as shown in the Shivering Isles DLC. That is not to say their realms don't normally reflect their original personality just that it is possible it is a barrier to permanent change.
The Thalmor are not evil at all, their the only ones that can save the world at this point!
is his duty to eat the world and start a new kalpa and not to inslave the races of tamriel he is evil.that is a personal gain
hard for me to say all Ik is i see things in 98% black and white and 2% gray but this is still leaves me at im not sure
I think that there is most certainly evil characters in Skyrim but In my opinion no one in Skyrim is exactly “good” you might say all have done at least some bad shit once or twice for instance look at the actions of the empire invading all different kingdoms and basically telling the natives that were there before “hey this is the new rule here now deal with it” same as what the thalmor do the stormcloacks have their evils too