The Myth of Jesus | Dr. Richard C Miller
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ค. 2024
- The Mythic Hero - Rank-Raglin Mythotype | Dr. Richard C Miller
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Chapters:
00:00:00 - The Rank Raglan Hero Archetype
00:04:24 - Recurring Story Patterns in Different Cultures
00:08:20 - Encountering Grief and Religion
00:12:33 - A Journey of Faith and Understanding
00:16:31 - Unpacking the Human Experience
00:20:35 - The Meaning of Play and Entertainment
00:24:34 - "We Are MythVision"
#mythvision #Myth #Jesus
I've added his book to my Amazon wish list. I'm not at a point where I have time to read it but will. His work is fascinating and I think is spot on, within the framework of what Dr. Dennis MacDonald is also doing.
That said, religion also serves as a coping mechanism. We make up these stories about people overcoming great odds or powerful evil (Jesus being tempted in the desert, etc) or having power over death, in order to help us cope with the looming prospect of our own mortality, or to give us (fictional) moral compasses to follow in order to do the right thing. In that sense, every culture creates their own religious 'avatars', through whom we live vicariously.
I had a Xian friend today tell me that since I'm a non-theist, I have no hope of life after death but because she's a Christian, do does have that hope. A false hope, but home nonetheless. Therein lies one of the purposes of religion: to give people hope, against the real world that seems hopeless in the face of the inevitable. These are common human experiences, so that's going to define the mythotypes and myth-themes that all civilizations create during the construction of fictions that help us more easily swallow the harsh pill that is 'reality'.
And, having grown up in religion and would have fought with you "tooth & nail" (in a prior life) about you being an atheist going to hell, I slowly let religion go and became much more compassionate and caring toward my fellow man. So, I think a purpose of religion is to tell each of us that we are UNIQUE and that we are very SPECIAL to the Universe. It's a way for people to think of themselves as being something much more than they are. And, also, if they have to make a tough decision (like sacrificing themselves for some reason), then they feel like THEY CONTINUE after this life. Because so many times, I did not even think second or third thoughts about risking my life to save other people, because God was PROTECTING ME and not allowing anything to happen to me -- because, again, I am unique, "loved by Him", and am special to Him. Or, that's what I used to think until I slowly deconverted and realized it's just "Harry Potter for Adults" now. But, yes, I agree exactly with what you have said (@WaderRogers), and I hope that I could add some more nuance to your commentary.
@@PoeLemic good perspective. Thanks for the input. In a sense, I think that believing there's an all powerful being who thinks I'm important elevates my own sense of self, my own worth, probably higher than it should be elevated. It feeds my narcissism but by doing so, it takes me out of my proper place in the universe and gives me an unreal and unattainable image of myself that reality will some day shatter...
In 2020 I caught Covid and was laying in bed with a high fever, having very vivid dreams of being at a location where my ancestors were buried. Now if I were a writer I would have described that experience in a manner where I had to endure the fire to make a trip to the underworld and meet my ancestors.
Psychological partition reminds me of when I set my clocks five minutes ahead and pretend it's real so I'm never late.
I do like Dr Richard Miller and his work. He seems like the kind of guy I'd like to be friends with. Love MythVision!
This is a great discussion! Dr. Miller's a great religion prof!
Been watching myth vision for a couple of years now and i think this is the one i enjoyed most of all,thinking seriously about joining sometime in the near future now,that was great.
That was fun getting Dr. Miller off of history & onto some other subjects for a change. I enjoyed that.
Love your son 🤗!
Happy, prosperous and healthy New Year👍
We didn’t evolve to understand fundamental realities, but to live in a minuscule and peculiar part of it.
Dr. Miller and Carrier are my favorite guests...
This was interesting for me. I was raised an atheist so, I've never experienced this sort of weird thinking the voice in my head was a divine being. Like I always knew I was just thinking.
I feel most of the time I’m aware of the voice I hear and can cognitively determine what part of my psyche is talking. Then there are times when our bodies are under great distress, like times of sickness or the loss of someone dear to us. It’s at those moments when the voice seems to come from somewhere else, but I feel like it’s not only us but coming from somewhere deeper in our psyche, somewhere where the rational thoughts subside and all we have are emotions. And when we come back our mind tries to rationalize an explanation and creates pictures and thoughts of what was happening.
Maybe. Even under stress and stuff I’ve never had that other voice feeling. I also did not hallucinate visually or auditorally when on LSD. I got a little paranoid. Time seemed weird. But nothing like that. I think brains are built differently and I can see how people could be religious if the voice feels it comes from elsewhere or you have mild hallucinations.
@@fifimsp they have done studies and found that each half of our brain has a different 'personality' ...one side responds to sight and the other to touch, l think. Anyway, they severed a person's brain and they reacted differently to the same situation. It's quite interesting.
@@JayWest14 when my wife betray me the pain was umberable one night I had a dream were I saw 3 vercions of myself I was laying in the bed in tremendous emocional pain torn apart emotionally an them there was another me standind up just looking at me an feeling sorry for me an at the door there was another me just looking at the other two he look calm like he was just assesing the situation but no emoción at all. Always wonder what was this dream about what was the significance of such dream. This was the only time in my life or Dreams that I have seen 3 me.s
@@AngelSanchez-dw4gs one is the impulsive, primitive part of your psyche, the other is another part that tries to rationalize and understand, and the third is the moderator asking you… “So, what are you going to do???”.
Great discussion.
My favourite thing about life of pi is the fact that Richard Parker appears in a shipwreck, lifeboat and canibalism elsewhere in reality and in fiction making it always sort of true.
This video is exceptional!
Great conversation
The point he makes about Christians asking God to help with absolutely trivial issues (like finding a parking spot) and not considering why God doesn't do more substantial stuff, like maybe ending wars, is SO important. As a Christian in the past, I didn't think about this: so closed- minded!
Right? I remember two months into Ukrainian war, Pope asked all christians and catholics to pray with him in 6:00 PM one day, dont remember date exactly. There was television live all around globe, in my country it was on main national tv program. 2 billion people were praying God in same time, lot of them praying from within their heart. NOTHING. War just went full mode. Not a flinch was changed. I was so pissed over it, I didnt told anyone in my family, but I was like: dont you see??? Nothing happened! 2 billion people were praying, and yet nothing. Wouldnt God do something if he is interested in prayers and spiritual stuff only? You cant go around it, there is no; Ohh God has its own plan with war, we just dont know.? And nooooobody doesnt mention it has failed, nobody in Church or Pope ever mentions that event, nobody takes God guilty for not taking prayers and stoping bloodshet of now probably 200000-300000 people!! And if somehow that peace talks succeeded, everyone would jump in; Oh God heard our prayers! Something similar: people are praying God to have children.. Couples that cant have it natural way by sex. They are praying. Giving money into Church. Going around holy places, begging, building chapels for God. Like they are praying for something utterly wrong and evil and not something most blessed and beautiful in human life; new human. NOTHING HAPPENED, no even God responding and saying he wont do it. So many people have their prayer “unheard”. Its utterly bizzarre now when I look back to it. Sry for long rant 😅
I would love to see mythvision interview archaix !
I enjoy everything you release with Dr. Miller. Keep it coming.
9:50 A fun and relevant mention of Yann Martel's story "Life of Pi" (as the movie version).
So deep so true!My huge compliments from Italy
10:10 Excellent suggestion!
Love Richard Miller, love his son,love Mythvision
Reality is definitely full of surprises and mysteries. I don’t think lowly of what is. I find god beliefs can limit the appreciation of what IS.
Myth to Reality, that was great!!
I am curious why you do not do a video on the myth of the Jewish people?
So good
22:40 mind you, also, if you need to sleep for so many hours, then clearly you need a social community so that people can look out for each other, while they're vulnerable. The necessity of being in a community could also be a big survival advantage.
This also maps across to religion, which is an emergent property of language, and language itself, of course, is the earliest technology that could communicate ideas, including ideas that aren't immediately observable in the mundane natural world.
Ex-vangelist for 25yrs. Great convo.
For anyone looking for some answers: Consider the research of Dr Ian Stevenson, Dr Rupert Sheldrake and former CIA project leader Dr Dale Graf for further insights into these queries that go well beyond speculation. Add a dollop of Randall Carlson's Sacred Geometry insights and you're good to go. Cheers!
There should be a couple names added to that: John Vervaeke and Johnathan Pageau. These two have a lot of discussion with incredibly brilliant people and are themselves great thinkers.
In more modern times, we have the Scarlet Pimpernel in 1905, a sort of superhero, and the introduction of the secret identity. A few years, 1913, Zorro, also with a secret identity, and the addition of a cape (which adds greatly to the dramatic impact of the hero, but in practice would be a serious encumbersome, including getting snagged or grabbed onto by the villain). Later, a bunch of these superheroes routinely fly. But this seems to have set a new Rank-Raglin mythotype for 20th century comic book heroes. Which might suggest the classical era mythotype is NOT part of the common inborn human trope, but simply compelling features developed in the Mediterranean area, copied and repurposed because they were seen to be so popular.
I'm not of the view that we can really determine inborn preferences from cultural developments. At least not until we have some kind of external reference. It's hard to examine the self without the other, all we currently have in terms of story telling entities we can communicate with on this planet is ourselves. But I will say that even superheroes hew pretty close to Rank-Raglin if you're willing to stretch some definitions and are willing to allow for subversions of the tropes. Peter Parker may not have been born to a king, his parents are in fact dead. But his aunt and uncle are both portrayed as being morally upstanding beyond that of your average person. Clark Kent's biological parents weren't royalty either but his father was one of the greatest scientists of their planet. We replaced kings with "culturally elevated person". The function is still the same, we're saying, "This person embodies ideals which we find most admirable." In the past this would have been the martial prowess and sober judgement ascribed to an ideal conception of a king. But since we've de-emphasized monarchies in the modern era, we developed abstractions of "king" which suit our needs.
@@rainbowkrampus Good points. Thanks.
This was so good! Bring more of dr. Miller! ❤
Around 112 CE, Pliny the Younger, the Roman Empire's foremost legal authority, conveyed in a letter to Emperor Trajan that he had never attended any trials of Christians and noted that many individuals who previously identified as Christians in his province had long abandoned the faith.
This-yet again-disproves the common misconception of Christianity's rapid organic spread across the Empire. Instead, it shows that even after nearly eighty years of evangelizing across three continents, the recruitment efforts were so ineffective that the presence of Christians was still nearly nonexistent.
Just like all of us anti vaxers were pressured to abandon our rap when at work and etc
@@danielhopkins296
Awww those poor souls being “persecuted”
Don’t worry Jesus will return soon. 😂
What a profound and meaningful conversation. I can’t thank you enough Derek and Dr. Miller. Beautiful and heartfelt. I will be thinking about this conversation for days.
Dr Millers book is soooo good.
Miller Jr is a wholesome chap 👍
I’m a Christian, although I’m curious if you (or anyone here) have scholars that disagree with Tom Holland. Want to see what the counter claim is. :)
This was a profoundly important conversation! Things many of us think about and subconsciously know being articulated is very helpful!
If you decide to read or watch Life of Pi, immediately stop reading anything about it and don’t ask anyone’s opinion of it. It’s best experienced with fresh eyes!! Don’t rob yourself!!
Based on this comment I paused the video and watched 'Life of Pi'. What a great movie! Back to the video now.
I love this show for bringing us detailed content such as this!
According to Fomenko, the story of Jesus is based on the life of Andronikos I Komnenos (1117 - 1185) . The dates corresponcd to the full set of time estimates made in the New chronology theory.
Yep, these guys are my people!!
Fantastic conversation!!!
🤟🏽👍🏽🙌🏽👏🏽👏🏽
a most excellent conversation, mindblowing. great ending too, made me laugh, awesome.
Otto Rank and Ernest Becker writings are worth reading on human psychology and its desire for immortality through mythology. "Who will deliver me from this body of death?" The Apostle Paul
We...are...mythvision.
Jesus has become a persona to share a trope, moral, or philosophy. Gosple of Thomas so similar yet saying unique things. Jesus plus a composite of other known rebels. Jesus a way to ease the cognitive unease of Hellenising.
Agree with the principle in this video that is so subconscious and automatic.
At the end of the day, the most prominent sects win. Thus we have their syncreted version(s) today.
My understanding, ICBW, is that theater in ancient Greece grew out of religion, that plays were essentially religious services.
Maybe Christianity started the same way: "Ye foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?" - Apostle Paul, Galatians 3:1
Well, religion is always theater to some degree. @@edwardmiessner6502
I'd love to understand Dr. Miller's perspective on what's happening here. If he believes it could short-circuit our minds, he must have some insight. Somehow, I believe we'd realize our significance is no greater than lint on furniture, just a small part of a much larger picture.
I have a book from the 70s entitled. ( How Much Prayer Should A Hamburger Get ? )
Just dear God guive us our daily breach with a little bit of greatest. Thank you.
I realised a few decades ago that when people pray it has very similar effect on the brain than taking a mild, mind alternating drug and the effect is even stronger when singing hymns (like all singing). Deep human connection also has the same effect. That's why religion can be such a powerful alternative to alcoholism and drugs.
I also think genetic makeup or default brain chemistry has a role on who does or doesn't catch religion easily (I imagine becoming religious is like a catching a cold), which usually occurs when body's defences are weakened, even though it's not always obvious straight away... Everyone can catch a cold, but some have stronger immunity than others. Likewise, anyone can fall for a religion or a cult in the wrong circumstances or to fulfil an inner need they are not necessarily aware of, something to stimulate those feel-good brain chemicals...
I guess I am immune, because even at my most desperate moment I failed to get religion. I don't need it to give meaning for life either: I believe we have to create it ourselves.
One Triscuit with no topping please!
Best ending ever!
Yes the dogmatic 'enhanced' can't hear a thing they're so mesmerised❤
This guy is every bit as great as you promised and teased before you started posting these clips.
Could apply to both Jesus and Moses!
Well Jesús is mean to be better than Moses but it is the same character.
Is there anyone also a fan of Alex O'Connor (Cosmic Skeptic) and just wishes these two would appear together?😂
Keep enlightening us open minded people we need to learn more of the origins of religious dogma that has brainwashed us all into believing this book of parables and allegorical characters
I wonder what Miller thinks of the hero patterns implication that Jesus was mythological (the majority of high raglan scorers were mytholocial). This offers a very firm probability judgment for mythicism. Now of course, there are many pieces of relevant ancient evidence and many probability judgments that could potentially be inferred from them individually; so anyone’s final assessment should include all of them. Nonetheless, the rank raglan is still a tallymark for mythicism apart from whether it is the final score.
Derek you must try out Elden Ring, RDR2, Dark Souls, Assassins Creed games etc.
💛
6:23 okay but what creates consciousness? What creates purpose/meaning… and quickly the “scientist” believes in magic
🌹
Those first four characteristics were pure Cuchulain.
Wow, this was unexpected! Neurology, seriously?! Expected more from you guys, honestly. Go eat some mushrooms or something...
did the Gospel writer mark know Luke colossians 4 v10 and v14
Prior to the Appearance of this form I was neither Being or No-being......This Has NOTHING to do with God or God's, Jesus being a God (which He never said he was, nor was he).......
We all have our perceptions.. & We all believe in something but at the End of the day if you are Wrong woe to you ….. However carry on life is beautiful!!!! Have a great day !!!!
And that very threat of an unprovable “hell” plays upon that primitive part of our brains that we still retain from cave man days.
@@blackhawk7r221 So you are basically saying that all so called "hell testimonies" out there in their ENTIRETY (and there are millions) are nothing but made up lies, which is an extremely ignorant and arrogant stance. If i told you that i have not only studied the spiritual / demonic realm but also experienced it myself for 20+ years, and if i told you that i have witnessed actual real demonic rituals and seances where demons actually come through and convey knowledge that nobody could have known, if i told you that once i even had a demon in my living room that even left a physical mark on my wall, which materialized from the inside out of the wall, then i guess you would easily dismiss me as a crazy nut right?
Now the real question is this. What would be more wise? To live your life as if there is no God or hell and indulge in the sins and temptations of this world and then find out that you have been wrong and you end up in hell. Or is it more wise to live a righteous life where you actively seek out God, and then whether or not hell is real, you are still on the safe side? I find the first option quite foolish.
But the real information that YOU need to know is the following. If you truly seek God with all your heart from a completely unbiased viewpoint with no preconceived notions etc, then you WILL find Him, he will reveal himself to you on a personal level. Those people who do not believe in God or have not found him yet, those people have never truly seeked him out. Simple as that. Do you even know that every true born again christian (which are few) is led and guided by the Holy Spirit? If i told you that the Holy Spirit led and guided me to cure my own cancer, would you dismiss me as a nut again? Do i have a reason to lie right now? I don't. I refused all treatment after being diagnosed, they told me i have a maximum of 5 years left, and that was 10 years ago. I cured myself. Holy Spirit showed me how. I've never been this healthy in my life. I could tell you things you wouldn't even believe. God, demons and hell is very real my friend. Don't be foolish or arrogant to think better. There is a very ancient but very truthful saying:
"The more you know, the more you realize how much you don't know. The less you know the more you think you know."
What does that tell you about being dead sure that hell is just a myth? Food for thought. Much love and God bless you.
Luis if you love this world, the love of the Father is not in you. Jesus said one cannot serve two masters. And thats plain logical. And if you cannot see how evil and wicked the world has become or where it is going, then you are quite blind. Biblical prophecies are coming true right before your eyes. Just look around you brother. Food for thought, nothing more. Much love and God bless.
@@blackhawk7r221 There are plenty actual documented cases where people died in hospital and went to hell and came back and shared their story. Many of them, when their spirit left their body were able to see things in the surgery / operating room that they couldn't have seen from their angle while laying on the operating table. Many of them could describe things in detail that they couldnt have seen unless they really left their body. And then the question becomes why should they lie about it? Also i dare you to repeatedly ask God in prayer every day to show you if hell is real or not. Do it for a few months or however long until God grants you your wish, but CAREFUL brother, it won't be a very pleasant experience and it will traumatize you for life. So better not play with this dare. If you only knew how real it all is..................if you only knew...........
@@sebastianwehler3218 Things were a hell of a lot worse than today several times over the last 120 years. The times we are living in now ain’t nothin.
Christianity was created in Rome by proselite jews who were Roman citizens. It was later infused with ideas that were taken from the Roman and Egyptian religions.
For example, the idea of virgins giving birth was copied from ancient Egyptian mythology.
Similarly , the Romans would deitified the Ceasars after they died.
For instance, Octavius, after he was murdered, was claimed to have been resurrected and ascended in heaven. These teachings and beliefs were in existence many centuries before the advent of Christianity.
PS: I was brought up in the church!
@devonsewell1336
Does correlation/similarities mean causation/copying?
I’d warn that’s a leap a logic and now must explain the massive web of lies from church fathers and their references to other lost works that backed them up. It sounds awfully ad hoc and that doesn’t speak well to the quality of your argument. :/
@FuddlyDud he's completely right . Spirituality is not found in religion. It's a one on one connection with our creator. There's truth in the Bible mixed with alot of lies , mistranslation , and manipulation .
@@smilie3232
" he's completely right . Spirituality is not found in religion."
Well that's a massive claim. So prayer has nothing to do with spirituality? :P
"It's a one on one connection with our creator."
Agreed. This is nourished through religion.
"There's truth in the Bible mixed with alot of lies , mistranslation , and manipulation ."
Uhhhh, that's a ton of assumptions. :P
1) We have mistranslations already within the Bible, such as a Jewish being 7 and 17 in 1 King and 2 Chronicles (I believe), or certain grammatical variances in the NT. However, despite 30,000 variances found in manuscript evidence (because we have over 10,000 pieces of said evidence), an agnostic scholar like Bart Ehrman admits we have the OG NT with 99% accuracy. That's pretty reliable to me! :)
2) Manipulation doesn't equate to the source material being wrong. Just because I may manipulate a child's naviety to believe 2 +2= 5 does not stop 2 +2 from equaling to 4. Similarly, just because later Christians used the text for personal gains does not equate to the source being wrong.
3) Lies as in which lies? Can you show me the affirmative evidence that shows it is actually just a bunch of lies?
NOTE: I have a decent bit of knowledge on this issue, so come with data! :)
Why do you claim the virgin birth was copied from Egypt? Early Church Fathers said a man named Buddas conversed with the apostles in Jerusalem ( pre 70ad) with four Indian books and claimed to have been born from a virgin. They say he had a book titled Euangelion ( Gospel) which would make it the earliest attested book with that title
In his book Worship of Augustus Caesar the author Alexander Del Mar shows that cesarian birth of Caesar was copied from the Buddha's birth from his mother's "side"
If I may say it sounds like we are all crazy beings just that on different levels. Take some time and process that reality .
Funny how _Lord_ Raglin left Jesus off of his mythAlthough he doesnt compare them, if you do, you find Jesus ranks one point higher than Hercules on Raglin's _hero scale._
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes
I read it. It contains some good elements, but its overall thesis is silly. According to Jaynes, consciousness didn't even exist until sometime in the early iron age. It would have us accept the idea that other life forms (dogs, cats, whales, monkeys) have no consciousness at all. The only worthwhile part of the book is the section where Jaynes asks the question of what consciousness is NOT. His basic, erroneous premise is that only recursive, self-reflective consciousness is consciousness at all. That's baloney.
Is it possible tpu could do a serious review on the shroud of turin, there are theories now that instead of the figure in the shroud is lying down, he is infact in mid air , and the shroud is authentic and the proof of the actual resurrection process.
Dr. Miller would likr to forget that the Turin Shroud exists because it falsifies his theology.
The Shroud of Turin has long since, and several times, been positively dated to only the Middle Ages. It was yet another fake “holy relic” sought out by Catholic Churches during those dark years.
There are also theories that the Blue Pixies used it as a butt-wipe and that it came out looking like Jesus, just the way burned tacos sometimes look like that.
Conversations like this are incredibly frustrating because they basically conform to what Julian Jaynes described in The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind. But nobody has read that book.
Jayne’s overlooking of Indian philosophy seems to be a major stumbling block for him. The distinction between mind and consciousness is important and yet the west refuses to see it
I read it. It has a silly thesis-- that only recursive, or self-conscious consciousness is consciousness at all. According to Jaynes, the only things that have ever been conscious are humans after some time in the late bronze age. That's ridiculous malarkey. Our primitive ancestors were conscious. Other animals are conscious. But Jaynes denies that.
Definitely some Joseph Campbell stuff
Actually, I think Campbell would be rolling in his grave If he heard this conversation...
Hi derek
Yes, hi @Baran, too ... Glad to see you here.
interesting. You guys were talking about how everything is from Earth and the origins ar only proven by science, but the universe isn't made for us to know, so how do you know it isn't God?
How do you know it isn't the Blue Pixies?
There could be myth but not because of this
good stuff. its all celestial metaphor. and do not disregard C Lindtners work.
Lindtner USED to be a credible scholar, but his work descended into pseduoscholarship in the late nineties when he started proposing pseudo-linguistic conspiracy theories in Buddhist-Christian studies, and fell in with a group of holocaust deniers. I am aware he has recanted the holocaust denialism that effectively ended his academic career, but this does not change the fact that his denialism of the Judaic origins of Christianity is deeply indebted to an old anti-semitic strand in Germanic radical protestant Jesus mythicism. It is intellectually related to Christian Identity cults (which say Jesus is Aryan). By saying Jesus is Buddha, Lindtner is doing the same thing. So speaking as a scholar who advocates for the recognition of Buddhism on Christianity, I do not want to be associated with people like Lindtner for multiple reasons.
thanks for the enlightenment@@AnthroJoe
Much appreciated@@prayercodes.
Did you hear about the new discovery of a Buddha statue in a Roman temple in Egypt? It was locally made (evidently). Very recent bombshell announced by a Polish-American team.
@@AnthroJoe thanks will look into it. ive dived deep into the MVP and gematria studies of Lindnter. its all too obvious. the word SALT (petra) is a clear giveaway. we dont view history the way we did for thousands of years. today we 'prove' facts; we dont find truths. by comparing New physics with greek mythology/egyptian cosmology, the whole Aryan/jewish discussion takes a backseat. the truth: jesus is an allegory created by the flavians. Lindtner is correct: the 4 gospels are copies of the MVP. today, we live in a world that is so deluded and upside down, that we battle over illusion
Bart Ehrman (critic, gnostic leaning towards atheism)
Says those (professional skeptics, )
who don’t believe that Jesus existed are in the wrong field.
The best and most accurate history is compiled by a person with no skewed belief bias.
He’s just one expert voice, though lacking perhaps in secular training in history. The video, however, never said or suggested that Jesus never existed. That was not the topic. I do love Bart.. I just think he’s off in that opinion. Plenty of room for both theories: 1. He did not exist 2. He did exist but was not the object of the gospel portraitures.
I have no doubt in my mind, if Yeshua was even real, that he thought he'd be the conquering hero in time. The Messiah prophecy required him to rise to political power & destroy Israel's enemies. He was never king. He didn't defeat Rome. Didn't conquer the world. So they made some stuff up about resurrection. God got tired he'll be back later I guess
Thanks!🦍🦍🦍
Thank you for your superthanks
have you ever stopped to consider that there exists a "hero myth" precisely because such a thing is the template of creation via the Creator/His Son (the perfect Human, or what you would call a 'hero')? In other words, if the Creator were to create something, it would surely be "perfect", just as He, the Creator, is perfect. Therefore, although much of creation has "fallen" from perfection via one of the many other embedded creation templates (in this case one of illusion/pride--or thinking oneself is "doing" when in fact it is the Creator only Who "does"--and the subsequent veil of illusion bequeathed to all human beings), the Original Human being, that is, Jesus Christ, IS that 'hero' that exists, currently outside of time, but which can still be seen in the fallen portion of humanity (albeit only as a glimmer of its Divine birthright, but which Christ came to redeem). Of course, all of this would only make sense if you believe that you are created, and that you are not the creator yourself. peace, my friend.
? I remember two months into Ukrainian war, Pope asked all christians and catholics to pray with him in 6:00 PM one day, dont remember date exactly. There was television live all around globe, in my country it was on main national tv program. 2 billion people were praying God in same time, lot of them praying from within their heart. NOTHING. War just went full mode. Not a flinch was changed. I was so pissed over it, I didnt told anyone in my family, but I was like: dont you see??? Nothing happened! 2 billion people were praying, and yet nothing. Wouldnt God do something if he is interested in prayers and spiritual stuff only? You cant go around it, there is no; Ohh God has its own plan with war, we just dont know.? And nooooobody doesnt mention it has failed, nobody in Church or Pope ever mentions that event, nobody takes God guilty for not taking prayers and stoping bloodshet of now probably 200000-300000 people!! And if somehow that peace talks succeeded, everyone would jump in; Oh God heard our prayers! Something similar: people are praying God to have children.. Couples that cant have it natural way by sex. They are praying. Giving money into Church. Going around holy places, begging, building chapels for God. Like they are praying for something utterly wrong and evil and not something most blessed and beautiful in human life; new human. NOTHING HAPPENED, no even God responding and saying he wont do it. So many people have their prayer “unheard”. Its utterly bizzarre now when I look back to it. Sry for long rant 😅
People quit religion when they knew it is no good ,but, they don't go to a psychiatrist to undo their parents religion in them.Something bad happens that they can't deal with and they end up becoming re born old testament christian.
Most of us don't need a psychiatrist as a substitute for religion. I almost died, but that didn't cause me to turn back to God. In fact, I never thought about God for one second throughout the entire crisis, even though I thought I would probably die.
you have to be here in the first place for anything to take place thats weird
I'm Here To Chew Bubble Gum and Kick Ass and I am all out of Bubblegum -Roddy Piper in They Live
You are living in a dreamworld.
Boy, is he going to be surprised come Judgement Day.
booga booga booga
The winner takes it all. Riddle Puzzle or Beggoten Son?!. Vulnerable. Psalms 144:9. Hebreo 4:12.
jesus is fiction. You lose.
@@QuestionThingsUseLogic Psalms 53:2-3. Psalms 52:1-3. Taong Bastos at walang modo Ano ang Sikta o Kulto mo?!.c 1Samuel 1
@@QuestionThingsUseLogic Joshua 1:18. Luke 19:27. Matthew 22:11-12?!. Executive decision from the AMA OR ALLAH KING OF RIGHTEOUSNESS OR GOD. HEBREW 4:12.
@@britanikothegreat8513 Psalm 137:9... What an awful god!!
@@QuestionThingsUseLogic When you tell me that you love me. Psalms 144:9. Psalms 44:21.
Camelot!
Derek please shorten your questions. Please.
Gods = planets = zodiacal signs.
Conan scores high on this list. 😊
The real myth is that Jesus was not a myth.... much like Mormons jump up and down denying that the Angel MoronI was not a myth too.
Don’t mix cristianity with Jesus nothing to do if is Jesus myth we would have only one author of myth.
You guys are saying all "religions"....Sure. Read the Ribhu Gita....there is NO transcending anything. Completely different reality. But 'religions" yes, I get that angle. But I would delve into the intricacies of Vedanta and Shankara. Nothing like what is being discussed here....So NO not all Humans find the "pill" of life hard to swallow- they gladly take it down without fear....
I too have been waiting for mythvision to approach eastern philosophies.
I scratched this together this morning. The basic concept is outlined. No visions were involved. Just Satan and Adam, Yahweh and Christ.
Just as it is appointed that human beings die - be judged - appear a second time, (so also Christ) …will return Heb 9:27-28 …as the (Red) Dragon (Demon Sin) stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth. (Rev 12:4 NABO)
Satan is the God of this world. Yet, the world preceiveth it not.
Nor has it the perspicacity to comprehend it.
They have not known either the Father or me. (Joh 16:3 NABO)
I make peace, and create evil (Isa 45:7 KJV)
That creation itself would be set free from slavery to corruption and share in the glorious freedom of the children of God. (Rom 8:21 NABO)
(Christ) was known before the foundation of the world (1Pe 1:20 NABO)
His works were accomplished at the foundation of the world. (Heb 4:3 NABO)
He chose us in him, before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4 NABO)
Father, they are your gift to me. ...because you loved me before the foundation of the world. (Joh 17:24 NABO)
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all (Joh 10:29 NABO)
The Father’s role is as the Serpent or Shining One. Christ’s role is as the first and last Adam. The only begotten Son.
You, O king, are the king of kings... making you ruler over them all; (Dan 2:37-38 NABO)
And when he comes he will convict the world in regard to... condemnation, because the ruler of this world has been condemned. (Joh 16:8-11 NABO)
I am the root and offspring of David, the bright morning star. (Rev 22:16 NABO)
Is not my house firm before God? He has made an eternal covenant with me, set forth in detail and secured. Will he not bring to fruition all my salvation and my every desire? (2Sa 23:5 NABO)
How have you fallen from the heavens, O morning star, son of the dawn! How are you cut down to the ground (Isa 14:12 NABO)
Cut down the tree and destroy it, but leave in the earth its stump and roots, fettered with iron and bronze (Dan 4:20 NABO)
The sky over your heads will be like bronze and the earth under your feet like iron. (Deu 28:23 NABO)
your kingdom shall be preserved for you (Dan 4:23 NABO)
Now is the time of judgment on this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out. (Joh 12:31 NABO)
In an intergalactic cruiser, to a galaxy far, far, away... the one who ascended far above all the heavens (Eph 4:10 NAB)
At the same time my reason returned to me... I was restored to my kingdom, and became much greater than before. (Dan 4:33 NABO)
(Christ's) dominion is vast and forever peaceful, From David's throne, and over his kingdom, which he confirms and sustains
By judgment and justice, both now and forever. (Isa 9:6 NABO)
Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. (Mat 25:34 NABO)
As I watched, Thrones were set up and the Ancient One of Days took his throne. (Dan 7:9)
The huge dragon, the Ancient Serpent of Old, who is called the Devil and Satan (Rev 12:9).
I saw One like a son of man coming, on the clouds of heaven; When he reached the Ancient One and was presented before him...
"Master, are you going to wash my feet?" (Joh 13:6 NABO)
Get behind me, Satan. (Mar 8:33 NABO)
He received dominion, glory, and kingship; nations and peoples of every language serve him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion that shall not be taken away, his kingship shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13-14 NABO)
I, Daniel, found my spirit anguished within its sheath of flesh, and I was terrified by the visions of my mind. (Dan 7:15 NABO)
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Yahweh is the God of metallurgy. The gates of the nether world (Abyss/Death/Hell/Netherworld) will not prevail against his Everlasting Lake of Fire and Brimstone (sulfur) where you will be smelted and refined, have your dross removed and, be purified. There, you will be tormented or, tested for purity by questioning.
Brimstone 1a) divine incense, because burning brimstone was regarded as having power to purify, and to ward off disease
Tormented: 1) to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the color of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal 2) to question by applying torture
Just as silver, bronze, iron, lead, and tin are gathered into a furnace and smelted in the roaring flames, so I will gather you together in my furious wrath, put you in, and smelt you. (Eze 22:20 NABO)
(it is better to marry than to be on fire (1Co 7:9 NABO) Be fruitful, and multiply (Gen 1:28 KJV)
Thanks for the huge wall of mumbo-jumbo.
@@donnievance1942 That is just a curb along the sidewalk. And, that thing is four months old. This one is two days old. This is how I study. I write pieces. Thanks for the opportunity to respond. YHWH judged the heavens and the Gods. Christ judges the earth. They are the snake and the worm.
YHWH had useful attributes as the God of metallurgy.
Whatever can stand fire, such as gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, and lead,
you shall put into the fire, that it may become clean; however, it must
also be purified with lustral water. (Num 31:22-23 NABO)
Just as silver, bronze, iron, lead, and tin are gathered into a furnace and
smelted in the roaring flames, so I will gather you together in my furious
wrath, put you in, and smelt you. (Eze 22:20 NABO)
Earth is YHWH’s Everlasting Lake of Fire, his furnace of roaring flames where, in his furious wrath, he will gather you up, put you in, and smelt you. If your name is not found in the book of life, he will refine you, remove your dross, and purify you until the Devil, the False Prophet, and the Beast (false beliefs) are cleansed from you. The gates of the Abyss/ Hades will not prevail against it, (Mat 16:18)
YHWH judged the heavens and the Gods and became the snake. Adam, the Christ, wields the fiery sword, judges the earth, and becomes a worm. To 'strike at' means to watch over, guard, or protect. Jacob was born 'striking at' the heel of Esau, who lives by the sword and serves Jacob.
God rises in the divine council, gives judgment in the midst of the gods.
The gods neither know nor understand, wandering about in darkness,
and (the foundations of all the worlds of the Gods) shake. (Psa 82:1-5 NABO)
(Are YHWH and Christ) unjust, humanly speaking, to inflict his wrath?
Of course not! For how else (are they) to judge...? (Rom 3:5-6 NABO)
And why not say-- as we are accused and as some claim we say--
that we should do evil that good may come of it? Their penalty is what they deserve. (Rom 3:8 NABO)
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law (Rom 3:21 NABO)
That you may be justified when you speak, and vindicated in your sentence. (Rom 3:4)
Against you alone have I sinned; I have done such evil in your sight
That you are just in your sentence, blameless when you condemn.
Truly, I was born guilty, a sinner, even as my mother conceived me. (Psa 51:6-7 NABO)
What you see as an unscalable wall is a ladder. Here is the wall - I (resurrection) was Hitler (sacrifice).
For after one sin there was the judgment that brought condemnation; but the gift, after many transgressions, brought acquittal. (Rom 5:16 NABO)
Jesus is different with a message rhat changed hearts and read John to understand that he was either who he clamed to be or a mad man there is no in-between
We don't know enough about the historical Jesus to know whether he was a mad man or not
Jesus is King!!!! . Our Lord and saviour. It is written in the bible that there would be many FALSE prophets and teachings and massive confusion! (ding ding) The boble is the ONLY book with prophesies that have been fulfilled! The only one! There is one true gospel! And it stems from Jesus laying his hands on the first Pope, his disciple Peter! For 1500 years until the Protestant reformation and the splitting of the truth into false religions! There is one God! And Jesus is the son of God! And we will ALL face our creator as the just judge when we die to face the consequences of our disgusting faithless lives! the END!
? I remember two months into Ukrainian war, Pope asked all christians and catholics to pray with him in 6:00 PM one day, dont remember date exactly. There was television live all around globe, in my country it was on main national tv program. 2 billion people were praying God in same time, lot of them praying from within their heart. NOTHING. War just went full mode. Not a flinch was changed. I was so pissed over it, I didnt told anyone in my family, but I was like: dont you see??? Nothing happened! 2 billion people were praying, and yet nothing. Wouldnt God do something if he is interested in prayers and spiritual stuff only? You cant go around it, there is no; Ohh God has its own plan with war, we just dont know.? And nooooobody doesnt mention it has failed, nobody in Church or Pope ever mentions that event, nobody takes God guilty for not taking prayers and stoping bloodshet of now probably 200000-300000 people!! And if somehow that peace talks succeeded, everyone would jump in; Oh God heard our prayers! Something similar: people are praying God to have children.. Couples that cant have it natural way by sex. They are praying. Giving money into Church. Going around holy places, begging, building chapels for God. Like they are praying for something utterly wrong and evil and not something most blessed and beautiful in human life; new human. NOTHING HAPPENED, no even God responding and saying he wont do it. So many people have their prayer “unheard”. Its utterly bizzarre now when I look back to it. Sry for long rant 😅
Sorry I disagree with you. When I die I will go and be with Jesus. I hope you all change your mind and except Jesus as your savior before it's too late.
Jesus fulfills 20 of the 22 Rank-Raglan bullet points. And the penny dropped, the penny dropped, that Jesus never existed. And the historical Jesus? Either he didn't exist either or the Christians _erased_ him!
Yeah. He was probably just a guy. Like a laid-back kind of guy, some people don't get him, or they're jealous. Just a cool nice guy. Like Johnny Depp.
He could it fulfill 200 it is a literary work so anything is possible.
@@kaarlimakela3413 Or, maybe, more like Nicholas Cage when he's acting crazy and freaky in some movies. That's my picture of Jesus. Like he's always high on mushrooms.
Jesus was either an Essene or a Zealot. The Zealots were a break away sect that carried out terrorist attacks against Roman rule. Which is probably why Jesus was executed. Not defending the Romans either.
Absolutely! We'll said.
Jesus is very very real. No matter how bad Satan has put doubt inn ours heads. All praise God the most high and his son.
Lol who is Satan what does he look like and can you please tell me what did the biblical Jesus looked like
The miraculous images of Jesus' bloody corpse on the linen cloth were created for nonesense like this.
Um hm. An image painted on a 13th century piece of linen with iron oxide dust definitely proves Jesus existed. I put a saucer of milk out on the back step every evening for the Blue Pixies, and they granted my wish for a kitten.
@@donnievance1942 Here is the opening sentence from the Summary of STURP's Conclusions (24 scientists, 4 tons of equipment, five 24 hour days of testing, and three years to analyze the evidence):
"No pigments, paints, dyes, or stains have been found on the fibrils. X-ray, fluorescence and microchemistry preclude the possibilty of paint being used as a method for creating the image."
STURP's conclusion:
"The answer to the question of how the image was produced or what produced the image remains, now, as it has in the past, a mystery."
See: "The Carbon Dating of the Shroud is Explained by Neutron Absoption," Rucker, 2020.
Uh, Dr., Miller, maybe if you could just shave your thick mustache
and keep it under the chin, your face would appear less icky, and would still exude that image of professorial authority and biblical scholarshp you wanted to project.
Yeshua the Messiah The Christ Jesus and Thee Holy Heavenly Father whom sent him IS THE TRUTH ! I Know for a fact that Thee Holy Heavenly Father and mine Lord Thee Messiah Yeshua Thee Jesus Thee Christ are THEE TRUTH ! It is written he whom exalts himself Shelby humbled but He whom humbles himself shall be exalted !
I hath known Thee Holy Heavenly Father and mine Lord Thee Messiah Yeshua Jesus Thee Christ. I Hath Spoken unto Thee Holy Heavenly Father and Thee Holy Heavenly Father hath Spoken unto me and hath giving me and I hath seen mine Lord Thee Messiah Yeshua Jesus Thee Christ The Lamb of Thee Holy Heavenly Father in whom He is well pleased and mine Lord Thee Messiah Yeshua Jesus Thee Christ The Lamb hath stretched out his right hand unto me and He Hath Spoken unto me with voice.
What’s this rambling you wrote?
Just 🔴 it when was this so called yeshua born what was his daddy name
I counted at least 23 capitalization and grammatical errors in your 4-line screed. You're definitely so intelligent that we should take you seriously.