Thanks to everyone who came to the premiere, I think we maxed out at around 150 people which is awesome. And there were a couple "misses" in this video. One thing is that Cedar Point's population center should consider the Detroit metro area, and the other is that Cedar Fair very recently purchased the land that Great America sits on so its no longer leased
As someone who has family who lives near Detroit (Ann Arbor), this is 100% accurate. My aunt and uncle go to Cedar Point yearly, and yet have never been to Michigans Adventures once in their lives.
i had never even heard of michigan's adventure until recently by doing research for a huge amusement park trip I wanna do eventually starting with visiting every cedar fair park and I live in Indiana so there is no reason why I shouldn't have heard of it. it's also about equal distance of driving for me to go to Cedar Point and Kings Island because I'm in the middle of those two parks, but MA isn't that much farther tbh
To be fair, Knott's is the most popular park in the chain. It just can't grow any bigger without some drastic changes like expanding into its parking lot. Canada's Wonderland would need to do the same to expand, but it at least has some mediocre rides that could be refurbished or replaced to make it better.
I’m close to Detroit but I went to Michigan’s Adventure for YEARS before I ever went to Cedar Point. I’m a huge adrenaline junky so of course I wanted to go to Cedar Point, but my family all hate thrill rides, so we never went. I’ve only ever been to Cedar Point 3 times, once with my best friends family, and twice for a school trip. I’ve been to Michigan’s Adventure more times than I can count, and I have so much nostalgia from it. I know it sucks but I can’t bring myself to hate it!
As a Carolina native, I wanted to chime in about Carowinds - it's literally the only thing to do in all of North and South Carolina. It's practically cultural at this point - talk to anyone who grew up from those two states and it's clear that Carowinds is an enshrined part of the summer experience. If you wanna go somewhere and have fun for a day, Carowinds is basically your only choice. I've met many people waking up at 5AM and driving 5 hours from where they live in the furthest reaches of NC to get down to Carowinds for the day. It's status as a basically undisputed monopoly on the 15 million people in those two states probably helps its case, in addition to Charlotte's massive growth.
Carrowinds is an amazing park. KI is our home park. I wish they had some more wooden coasters though, but the place is a Mecca of steel coasters. We really enjoyed it both times we visited. I rode my first Gigga there at Night. Wow what ride that is!
Best field trip, hands down. We went in middle school for a band competition, it was a rite of passage for sure. I think I rode Top Gun when I was there (1999 I think)
Thank you! And youre right about Dorney being close to the population center in Jersey as well as Philly, but that actually bolsters my point that Dorney has a pretty decent population center to draw from if they saw it was worth going to
•Kings Island ~"I like the way you think, Blandy! But it's gonna take a lot more than a suitcase of cash to buy the Krusty Krab from me." ~"Oh, there's a lot more than that. The rest is over there. (Boat full of briefcases)" •Canada's Wonderland ~"I'm crossing over to the _Dark_ Side! (Half of the Krusty Krab is dark)" ~"Why should I waste money lighting the whole store?" •Carowinds ~"What's worker's compensation?" ~"You know, when you get paid for sitting at home!" ~"(Jolts up) You mean, _I_ can get paid while I'm at home?" ~"Yeah; what do you think compensation stands for?" •California's Great America ~"There's just one thing I don't understand." ~"What's that, laddie?" _~"That._ (Two Patricks laughing)" •Kings Dominion ~"I'm done with my shift, Mr. Krabs! And let me just say, there will come a day when I will make _something_ of my life, and I will never have to set foot in this grease trap _again!_ (Audience cheering in the background)" ~"Yeah, we'll see you after your lunch break, Squidward." •Knott's Berry Farm ~"SpongeBob, _why_ is my house filled with photos of your dumb junk!?" ~"Oh, I forgot to tell you. I took so many pictures, I ran out of room in my house." •Dorney Park ~"Ah, what am I worried about? I've got plenty of friends! I can name _three_ right off the bat! Uh... (Draws faces on three fingers) The gang's all here!" •Worlds of Fun ~"What a majestic view!" ~"What view?" ~"Oh, yeah! I forgot about your blindfold. (Removes blindfold; on a hot air balloon) Isn't it beautiful?" _~"Very_ nice..." •Valleyfair ~"Hey, what about me? Can I get fired, too?" ~"I'm afraid not, Squidward! You've got seniority." ~"Oh, yeah..." •Michigan's Adventure ~"Give me a raise, or I'm quitting!" ~"A... raise? Hm. (Scrolls book) That's not in my Hiptionary. Help me get with it, Jack." ~"Stop talking like that!" ~"(Rips off hair) These sideburns aren't real." ~"I _need_ more money in my paycheck at the end of every week; _capiche!?_ (Silence; Mr. Krabs laughs hysterically)" •Gilroy Gardens ~"The _Mitten!_ (Coughs) I mean... The Mitten." ~"That ride's for _babies."_ ~"Yeah. Let's ride it just to see how _babified_ it is!" •Geauga Lake ~"Close Glove World!? Has the world gone _mad!?"_ ~"Well... that depends on your definition."
Something interesting to note about Valleyfair’s property is that while only 58% of the land owned has been developed, a vast majority of that remaining land sits in flood zones from the nearby river. Everything past the western access road berm, specifically where Excalibur and Thunder Canyon lie, is sometimes under up to a few feet of water depending on the season and year. So while Cedar Fair might own a lot more land, not all of it is necessarily developable, which is a shame. It feels like their only option for a major new coaster is to replace one of the existing ones.
Another issue is the nearby airport which restricts ride heights to 275 feet. The Power Tower had to cut down its height from the original plans because of that restriction.
I'm surprised that when you listed Cedar Point's geographical metro area you left out Toledo, Detroit, and Windsor. I've been a pass holder since 1995, and I can tell you that when you go there in the late summer and fall, you'll see about as many Michigan shirts as you will Ohio State, and tons of Ontario license plates. The Detroit/Toledo area is an important part of their "local" draw. People heading out just for a day will make that drive and back. Been doing it for years.
@@racingphotographer8251 this is true. Standing in line for many of these rides I've conversed with many a Maple Leafs or Blue Jays fan about where they were from and the parks they've been to.
also Fort Wayne, IN. i'm located equally distanced to both CP and KI. i grew up going to KI every year until I was finally tall enough to go to CP and would consider that my homepark now. never been to Holiday world bc it is over 4 and a half hours from me. CP & KI are roughly 2 and a half hour drives
Dorney’s situation makes me sad. I went to college near there and it’s my most visited park. And now all they’re getting for 2020 is a water complex renovation!
It’s a joke. There was all this talk last year that a new coaster was on the way. All fake news. Good thing there is GA and HP. Both are getting new coasters next year so DP will die on the vine.
It is sad. Especially since Dorney is near Six Flags Great Adventure and Hersheypark, which have expanded beyond expectations. You would think Dorney would follow in their footsteps but nope.
Dorney Park has the oldest Wooden Coaster on the east coast Thunderhawk. The wildwater Kingdom side needed investment the water slide system being replaced was installed in the 80's by the last owner. It needed to be upgraded. The original wave pool was the first of its kind in the east coast.
With the smaller parks, at least world's of fun, I'd rather just cedar Fair drop/sell the park and bring it back to local operators. Kentucky Kingdom shows it can be done
As a someone from Michigan, I consider Cedar Point my home park. A lot of my family used to go to Michigan’s Adventure often, but I’ve never even been.
I like to say I have two home parks because my family used to go to MA every year. That tradition slowly faded away and now we go to Cedar Point which is closer
@@toebel How long has Michigan Adventures been around? I grew up in the Grand Rapids area, but haven't lived there in thirty odd years, and don't recall hearing of that.
I was going to say this too. Every coaster enthusiast I have met in Detroit considers Cedar Point their home park. It's about the same travel time as coming from Columbus and adds 4.3 million people to the nearby population centers.
"Lets start with one I think is definitely headed into the haves, and that's California's Great America." *3 years later...* California's Great America announces that they will be closing in at most 11 years. That aged well lol.
As I was watching the video I forgot that this was posted a while ago so when I heard this I almost spit my drink out and was like “buddy you sure about that?”😅
Glad to see Carowinds in the "haves." CF has done a lot of work to turn a pretty lame park into a legit amusment park. It's so much better than it was under Paramount. It has the little quirk of half the park being in NC and half in SC, and the coasters CF has put in are all very good.
Fun fact, my friend and her husband are the family who sold Dorney park to cedar fair. Her family started Dorney, she grew up working in the park. They sold the park because their son had a life threatening illness. They wanted to retire so they could enjoy the rest of his life together. He sadly died about 8 years ago. Great family
Thank you as a Minnesotan valleyfair is it for major theme parks and it's not even that great and I hate it I just wish we could get something here that was actually amazing but sadly that's just the Minnesota way I feel generally bland and uninteresting but harmless
i feel like Valleyfair could have potential as Rochester and Mankato are only 2 hours away. In total those two cities add 500k people. Nearby states like North Dakota and South Dakota have nothing and the many people who get layovers at MSP Airport could spend a day at Valleyfair if there was a big expansion or better advertising. Honestly we need a new expansion in my home park. Im tired of underwhelming flat rides like Delirious. I see potential in Valleyfair but maybe its just me.
@@escminnesota5543 absolutely right - I can't recall them even bothering to do any advertising besides the Halloween deal in recent years. Also, they have a huge ass parking lot, yet still charge for parking... that in itself reduces their profits, as people don't want to pay for parking right before paying to go inside - there's plenty of space in that lot, so them charging to park there is BS. They assume it's to keep people in the park for lunch, but the reality is it makes casual evening visits less likely to happen. I did have the season pass about 15 years ago, and got the parking pass as well, but even that requires you to pay the first time to get in and buy the pass itself. Astonishingly annoying, and not a good business practice. They really need to push the season pass again, and make it so people can casually go for a few hours in the evening; that summer my buddy and I went at least 30 times - I frequently picked him up from work and if either one of us said "hit Wild Thing a few times?" the other generally agreed, and Cedar Fair got some of our money each time, as who can turn down a nice hot pronto pup? :D
Ryan Thompson IKR like Cedar Point only has an RMC, Intamin Strata, Intamin Blitz, Intamin Giga, Intamin Impulse, B&M Wing, B&M Floorless, B&M Invert, B&M Dive, Arrow Hyper, and only like 7 other coasters.
Fast forward to 2022 and everything is different. Cedar fair sold California's great America, cedar point is adding restaurants left and right and a wild mouse, six flags is falling apart no thanks to their CEO and charging premium prices for the same experience so parks like dorney, hershey Kings Dominion are now slammed while great adventure is a ghost town.
Valley fair needs new coasters. I haven't been their since 2007 and I was floored when I found out they still haven't added anything new coasters. The water park is fun and all and it's has other shit todo but it badly needs a brand new coaster.
let's be honest, it draws in people from Canada, Iowa, Wisconsin and the Dakotas as well - probably more. It's just a shame that those attendance numbers aren't a bit higher - but part of that is due to no new rides; and nobody, I repeat nobody I know wanted them to kill the Log Flume, Hydroblaster, the IMAX theater etc and put in that damn wave pool (and the astonishingly rough texture on the concrete all around it - got bad blisters just walking in that area) where they did. That was really poor planning. If the Flume was getting a wee bit old, tear it down and replace it with a newer model of flume with a higher riders/hour number and problem solved (they never did properly support that ride, despite it being one of the most fun of all for little kids and those too afraid to ride "coasters"). But to tear down that whole section of the park for tanning chairs? D'oh!!! Don't blame Valleyfair for poor attendance, blame whoever forgot we already have 10,000+ lakes and not enough hot days to keep that new monstrosity packed. The old tube rides were a lot of fun, and adding a few more could have been nice, but that whole new area screams of trying to sell overpriced food "brought right to your cabana" that was cold by the time it arrived since they don't even cook it there. Not a good business model, and no surprise the attendance numbers are down.
Weve been going every year since before the orient was retired. I love this park and I will continue to go but yes it is in dire need of a new coaster. Boomerang is getting old just saying.......
It crazy how much different you sound now compared to when you made this video. The great America call doesn't look so good today though now with it be completely strap for possibly a large warehouse
Knott's has an asterisk next to it as it's open 363 or 364 days per year. Their average attendance per operating day falls behind the two Ohio CF parks
@Quick Caliber Since I live 15 minutes down the freeway from Kings Island, I have a platinum pass and did a driving trip to toronto to visit Wonderland for Yukon Striker, and what got me was in the morning it wasn't very crowded, but around 11:30 - noon, it suddenly got super crowded on a wednesday... I had gotten to ride what I really wanted, so waiting in line at the point wasn't that much of a issue.
Knotts is my home park and I have very good times there small park but a good balance of rides and some rides can be very compact like ghostrider or xcelerator etc.
@@rarecheeto790 Knott's was my home park too growing up. It's always been fun, but they have better rides under their belt now then they did when I was a kid. I would like to see them explore expansion options, maybe a parking structure, maybe buy and demolish the buena park mall and expand east, i dunno, but i think acquiring some more space is something they should think about.
I love your channel please don’t quit because your not “big” I love how your super calm in all your videos and I can really tell that you love being an enthusiast!!
Almost should be 4 tiers: HAVES" Cedar Point, Carowinds, Kings Island, Canada's Wonderland THE COULD GO EITHER WAY: California Great America, Kings Dominion, & Knott's The HAVE NOTS: Dorney, Worlds of Fun, ValleyFair and THE PLEASE DON'T CLOSE US: Michigan's Adventure.
Under your system CW clearly belongs in the "could go other way" tier. It is clearly not a "have" park in a league with CP, Cwinds, or KI. It's the weakest link among those 4.
@@racingphotographer8251 given their massive additions on the 3-5 year timetable, I dont see why this park is 2nd tier. Just because Cedar Fair didnt start with much doesnt diminish what theyve added recently
One thing to factor in for Michigan's Adventure is that, besides Cedar Point down in Ohio, it's the only amusement park within a 'day trip' driving distance for most of Michigan. So while Grand Rapids might be the only close city to it, there are actually several million people who have the choice of "Michigan's Adventure" or "two-day trip somewhere". Cedar Fair could probably make money if they just invested a bit in the park, because for many people from Michigan it's the only amusement park they might get to visit yearly.
I agree with your comment. Grand Rapids alone has 1.5 million people, but there are likely 3 million people or more within a 2 hour drive from the park, especially cities in southern Michigan, and only 3 or 4 hours to Chicago and Detroit or likely 10 million people. The fact of the matter is that Cedar Fair wants all those people to go to Cedar Point, and not Michigan's Adventure. That's why it doesn't change.
Carowinds draws from Columbia and Greenville-Spartanburg, SC, as well as Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and splits Raleigh and Durham with King’s Dominion. All of these metro areas are booming!
I think he only mentioned Charlotte because that market is a given for Carowinds. Those to the west could go to Dollywood or those to the south could go to SFoG, while those in the north could go to BGW or KD. I'd say with all their investments there it makes alot of people more willing to drive to Carowinds but they share a 50/50 shot in the outlying markets with the parks mentioned.
Most of the Cedar Fair target population (middle class with disposable income) live to the west and south of the Raleigh-Durham area (Cary, Apex, Holly Springs, Pittsboro, etc.). Additionally driving past Richmond, VA from NC is a pain in the *** (I drive it about once a month). As such, Carowinds has a much more than 50% of the market in that area. Dollywood is closer for western NC, but western NC is sparsely populated, so there isn't much of a market in that area. Having lived in South Carolina, people as far as Charleston also are drawn to Carowinds, given that there really are no other parks of any significance that service South Carolina. With these factors in mind, probably 75% of the population of North Carolina and 85%+ of the population of South Carolina are in the market of Carowinds (about 8 million) would probably look at Carowinds as the closest park. And that doesn't include those from northern GA who would travel to Carowinds rather than going to Six Flags.
Yeah I don't understand why he didn't include the Atlanta Metro area. Sure we have Six Flags but everyone I know in this area makes day trips to Carowinds all of the time. I'm also very confused why he said it was the only major park within a 4 hour drive of Charlotte when both Six Flags Over Georgia and Dollywood take under 4 hours to reach from the metro area...
I actually thought that even though Michigan’s Adventure has the lowest attendance in the chain, it still offers one of the largest profit margins for Cedar Fair somehow. Even so, I don’t see much reason for expansion. Also, I want to compliment you on this video. It makes me so happy that someone actually takes nearby metro populations into account (this also sort of appeals to my geography nerd side). But yeah, it’s so important to pay mind to major population centers around a theme park. That’s the kind of research I really like to hear about in regards to theme parks!
Despite the low contribution to the overal revenue, the park is apparently profitable for the chain so yeah as long as that's the case I'm sure they are content where they are with MA
It’s probably because they have a monopoly atleast on that part of Michigan. So the few people that are there have no choice and cedar fair has to do little to no work.
@@brianmcfeely9038 Since Cedar Fair no longer publicly shares its attendance numbers, I won't give any specific digits, but I worked in a job at a Cedar Fair park that allowed me to see attendance numbers across the chain for the last two decades, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that Michigan's Adventure does not get anywhere near 1.2 million visitors. In fact, Cedar Point Shores alone gets more visitors than Michigan's Adventure in most years. This was true before the pandemic, and it continues to be true today. I can also say that Cedar Point draws a deceptively large number of its guests from the Detroit metro area, and from the company's perspective, expanding Michigan's Adventure would just take business away from Cedar Point, where people are willing to spend more money. As sad as it made me to realize this, parks don't just "earn" a roller coaster by existing for a number of years; it is entirely based off of attendance and profit numbers, and Michigan's Adventure just does not pull in the crowds to justify any substantial investment. Unless later studies reveal that both CP and MA can expand without fighting with each other's markets, CP will always win, and MA will always lose in this regard. At best, they will get relocated coasters and kiddie rides.
In Michigan the majority of the population lives in the Detroit metro area. So we are 2 hours from Cedar Point or 3 hours from Michigan's Adventure. It just doesn't make sense to travel farther for Less.
Carowinds’ growth is the most impressive to me looking at the investments from 2010-present. Easily $100 million. A few years ago CF execs said they wanted it to be the Cedar Point of the South, so I’m sure they aren’t done. Plus they have the space.
Carowinds Phase 1 starting with Fury 2015 thru 2018 was 50M...Phase 2 started with 2019 Copperhead,the new themed area which will be built out & the hotel...another 50M. Cedar Fair is thrilled with Carowinds growth & phase 1 was beyond their initial expected growth goals. Carowinds like Wonderland is in a phased development plan & they will continue investing at these levels as long as they keep meeting or exceeding their ROI goals.
As was pointed out in the video, Charlotte is the fastest growing metro area in the country and it’s demographics are young. That is why Cedar Fair is investing so much in it. They would be dumb not to.
Building Carowinds up this much is a real thorn in the side of Six Flags over Georgia and Dollywood as well. The most visited National Park in the country is less than half a day from Charlotte as well (Great Smoky Mountains NP). And Asheville and Greenville Spartanburg have been on a huge growth spurt as well. Asheville is a close to halfway between Dollywood and Charlotte and Greenville/Spartanburg is about halfway between Atlanta and Charlotte. That's a lot of market to compete in so the way things are going you have to bring your A game or become irrelevant. And parking decks are going to be the answer to all of these land development/space issues. If you can't spread out you have to go vertical!
I live in Canada and I'd like to see Worlds of Fun just because it's themed to _Around the World in 80 Days_ and I think that's neat. Cedar Fair really should get more serious about promoting and developing its theme parks rather than letting Knott's be the only one in the chain that gets any love.
I wish that Michigan Adventure got more love. I consider Cedar point my home park, I've even done volunteer work there, but Michigan adventure would surely pull in more people from the east side of the state if it actually had good coasters.
Dorney has a Allentown water subplant o site next to steel force underground were Dinosaurs alive was that's why no major rides can go there can't dig supports. Portable flats can fit on the site.
Wonderland has what I would say the second highest metro area. It draws toronto and the gta, Hamilton Niagara Windsor London, the golden Horseshoe, Kingston and possibly Ottawa. They only have to compete with Montreal's La Ronde which I still see more people traveling 7 hours from Montreal to this park.
I've been to Kings island Cedar point and Carowinds. Cedar Fair spoils us man. We have some good coasters in Ohio. Glad to call Norwalk and Sandusky Home
I like this, but your knotts placement is weird. You cite it’s lack of new things as a reason, but still ignore all the other things they do outside of roller coasters that REALLY draws people. They were doing food tasting events while Disney was firing all its employees. Their Ghost Town Alive is unique in eve to way for a theme park. And you mentioned haunt, which keeps spook fans coming all year long out of adoration for that 2 months. Idk. It feels like considering how big a deal they are in other faucets, and how they’re literally #1 even though expansion is impossible... it’s just weird to drop them to second tier just because nothing is ideal
Airtime Thrills yeah i don’t understand how they were nearly bankrupt a decade ago but SWO and both BG are now on par with CF and SF top tier parks. Quite amazing tbh they played their cards right. I remember rumors of them selling SWO
I wish they would remove the garbage coasters in Wonder Mountain at CW (Thunder Run and Guardian) and put an RMC dark ride in there. Think Disney's Space Mountain on steroids.
@@adventuresinthemeparks6683 the "Have Not" parks like Wonderland get filled up with spinning flat rides. The "haves" like Cedar Point get all the giga coasters.
Knotts has a few dark rides already (Bear-y Tales, Calico Mine Train, Timber Mountain Log Ride), probably to create some synergy with nearby Disneyland, which is almost nothing but dark rides.
I'd recommend factoring in the Detroit Metro into the home park area of Cedar Point. Detroit is both geographically closer to CP then Michigan's Adventure, and if you asked someone from Detroit what their home park was, overwhelmingly that Detroiter would say CP. When you factor the Detroit Metro area in, the population base for CP doubles to 8 million people.
Another "competitor" angle that wasn't covered -- Wonderland is 2 hours away from Darien Lake. Some Torontonians prefer to drive to DL since it's cheaper to get in and it's less crowded than CW.
@@DoswarePictures thats one thing I was thinking about, the hassle of crossing the border. Not usually much of a hassle unless you're "randomly" selected
I think you are mostly correct however you are wrong about Knotts. It’s in the “haves”. The park has a ton of flat parking in 3 adjacent locations. A structure could really help open needed space to expand.
No doubt! I think that for the moment CF has been kind of thinking, if it ain't broke don't fix it. But it's easy enough to slap up a 5 or even 10 story parking deck. The infrastructure cost is minimal compared to building actual rides and buildings. Universal has some impressively sized parking decks in Orlando that work quite well for them.
I never knew Cedar Fair owned Dorney Park. I'm going to Dorney next week, and I am looking forward to it. I've been plenty of times and it has always been fun. With prices lower than their local competitors while still maintaining high quality rides Dorney Park is a great stop for your summer fun. High velocity coasters like Steel Force and Talon are sure to excite the thrill seekers. Constrictor and Aqua Blast are great for those who want to slide around and get wet. And for the more laid back crowd check out a Cabana and relax by the Wave Pool. Whatever kind of adventurer you are Dorney Park is the place to be.
This is seriously becoming one of my favorite channels. These videos about the current snd historic macroeconomics/macromanagement of chains us super interesting.
I think the reason Cedar Fair invests so heavily in Carowinds is because it's essentially the only theme park in either state (NC/SC), and while their are close-ish alternatives, such as King's Dominion and Dollywood, most in the Carolina's still prefer and will travel to Carowinds. Meaning the actual population that Carowinds serves is closer to 15 million. I could easily see Carowinds becoming one of the most profitable and attended in the chain within 10-15 years.
It’s nice how much love they’ve been giving Carowinds lately. I hope they’ll do the same for Kong’s Dominion since Busch Gardens is set to ramp up their coaster game.
Carowinds market is infinitely better than KD's. CF has stated about a year ago in conf call the priority investment parks are Knotts, Cedar Point, Wonderland, Carowinds, and CGA. Cedar Fair has at Cedar Point an analyst day Aug where they stated in a slide presentation "The near term priority will be the tourist market in Southern California." So, one could take that to mean the rumored expansion of Ghost Town at Knotts is even more likely than speculated.
Question about Worlds of Funs population draw. You include the outside metros for several other parks but not Kansas City. Omaha/Lincoln Nebraska has a population of 1.3 million between the two metros and it's only a little over three hours to go there. There is also the rest of the state of Nebraska and Kansas that would make this the closest Amusement park to them.
@@mpaul1982 yes and no for Iowa. Adventureland in Des Moines is pretty nice and closer for the Iowa residents. Then again worlds of fun is the better park.
Michigan’s adventure gets the best things in the chain like BRAND NEW SHINY trash cans and park benches. That is so much better than a stupid giga or RMC.
I'm from down there and half the people I went to school with didn't even know King's Dominion existed. Everyone just goes to Busch Gardens, which is somewhat a shame that they won't travel the extra hour, but it makes sense I guess.
Timmy Jung I’m as well from there but we always knew kings dominion as the cheap park which it really was in comparison from Busch gardens so a lot of lower income families found it cheaper to go to kings dominion rather than Busch gardens
Worlds of Fun is EXTREMELY underrated, we have some great coasters. I think if they’d invest a little more in each of the have not parks the parks would have more attendance. I just ended the video when you said cedar fair does not spread their wealth around. I extremely agree and personally I think that’s a bad business model. The more you put into a park the more attendance you’ll get. They need to get that in their heads or else they could be headed down hill. Heck what do I know I’m just a grouchy park guest who has common sense unlike the leaders of the company. Edit: I should also add that having no A/C during the hot 90 degree summer weather is NOT a good business model to attract guests.
Yeah CF isn't giving small parks that produce little revenue and ebidta much. It's called ROI. They are doing horrible...you might want to look as t their financials. Just reported Great Q2. Compare to SF..the quarter was cramped on by wall street and the stock plummeted after earnings for the 3rd quarter in a row. CF was up 3percent after q2 results. Cf reported great numbers and organic growth were the something SF can't do and are trying to cover it by adding more parks on leases and wall street isn't buying it no matter how much JRA tries to spin it.
Truth. But from a business standpoint......the move was brilliant. Buy the competition which is "too close to home" and then shut it down. All the while, cannibalizing Geauga's resources to provide "new" experiences for other properties in the Cedar Fair offerings. As much as it sucked....the endgame was EPIC.
KC local here, I think Cedar Fir has been focusing more on Oceans of Fun for the last 8 years as they try to establish themselves as the premier water park and force schlitterbahn out. They've added some flat rides to the WoF side but mostly been upgrading everyhting on the OoF side. We are over due for a new coaster tho, as Mahomes says, KC is on the rise. (Just not as fast as Charelotte)
Your forgetting London, and pretty much everyone in southern Ontario. Its the only area and I'm about 2 hours out, Nd my work place goes. The basis is probably atleast 20 million.
I’m not sure where you’re getting your detailed reports on attendance and revenue brought in for each park. I can see the reference on Cedarfair’s Wikipedia. It states Valleyfair in the range of 1-1.99 mil tied with King’s Dominion, Dorney Park, and California Great America. It’s a park that’s so remote that the only competition is Nickelodeon Universe. Stagnating numbers are largely a result of a lack of investment from Cedarfair. Everyone I speak to simply says why go when you feel like you’ve already experienced it. Valleyfair just accepts that it’s a revenue stream for everyone else’s parks. The fact it’s even holding decent attendance numbers with such a lack of investment from Cedarfair is impressive.
I gotta say growing up in KC it’s hard to hear that a park that everyone is so nostalgic about (worlds of fun) is at the bottom of the barrel for cedar fair. Can’t argue with the facts but it really is noticeable how long the park has gone without a ride. There are talks that the boomerang at this park will be torn down as it’s never operational and that section of the park is blocked off. I don’t run a theme park so I can’t speak to the numbers but I can say when patriot and prowler opened the crowds were massive for the season so I imagine they made some sort of return on investment. The oceans of fun water park also seems to be a needle in the side of the park. A competing water park opened 40 minutes away that obliterated attendance to oceans of fun and the crowds never really came back. I can’t help but feel the money spent maintaining oceans is lost. Even though the closest park to me is bottom tear I am glad it’s a cedar park as the staff and safety of the park is great.
Dorney is my home park. Honestly, I'm okay with not having a new coaster every year. I really wish they had expanded Wild Water Kingdom instead of replacing many of the simpler attractions. I know that's a bit of nostalgia talking, but I really enjoy competing with my friends to see who can muscle their way across the lily pad lagoon first, or suddenly dropping ten feet off the end of a short slide. I think the better-rides-less-often model is a sound plan. Would I be excited to see a high powered, twisting, looping, thriller of a roller coaster? Absolutely, but that would hold me over for a while. Come to think about it, I could really go for a wooden or hybrid coaster. And Hershey is only a sort-of competitor for Philadelphia; it's twice the price and twice as far away. I noticed that you completely ignored the water parks at these locations. Dorney and Wild Water are one ticket, can both be done in a day but are better in two, and are a third the price of doing both Six Flags parks in Jackson. For those of you who couldn't give a darn about beating the heat... it's actually a bonus. Wild Water takes most of the visitor traffic during the day, meaning lines for coasters are short to non-existent. I think the addition of single rider lines would be great, too.
Hahahhaha, I'm just laughing at Worlds of Fun in The Have Nots as of August 19th, 2022. This is because we all know what Worlds of Fun is getting for 2023!
lol..they got a 12-14M coaster after a decade of nothing. Parks get or do not get things for a reason, their finances, market, expected ROI, etc.. WOF took a decade to get something cause they do not produce much. 80%+ of all revenue & ebidta come from the big 5 parks, that's why they get stuff all the time
As a native of the Charlotte area, Carowinds is one of the few fun things to do in the area that don't involve booze or NASCAR. I didn't like going there as a kid, I always preferred going to the Pavillion down at Myrtle Beach rather than going to Carowinds. Now as an adult though, I love it, cause it's a great place to hang out with friends and listen to people from Ohio complain about the heat.
All of these parks are on my list of where to go including Michigan's Adventure (except Valleyfair because that's my home park so not really in a hurry). I think Dorney Park and Valleyfair have plans for a new coaster in the near horizon. With Michigan's Adventure getting the new Camp Snoopy, I think that park is starting to get more attention in the chain. I think Kings Dominion should get some more attention as well for the reasons you just explained earlier and I think it will if they're going to put something where Volcano used to sit. I think it's important to remember that just because some parks may be more successful than others doesn't mean they shouldn't be overlooked.
Another (small) issue for ValleyFair. Its built across the river from a small airport, so rides have a height limit of 275 feet (reached by the Power Tower, who's original desigin called for a 300 ft tower.)
Every time I go to Kings Island or cedar point it feels like there's millions of people there that day...lol Yeah and it drives me fucking crazy.. Mostly because I just hate people 😜😂 Great video ❤️
Coming from someone in Michigan, literally everyone here thinks of CP as our home park. I live just south of Michigan Adv. and have never gone lol. Been to CP 4 times.
I’m close to Detroit but I went to Michigan’s Adventure for YEARS before I ever went to Cedar Point. I’m a huge adrenaline junky so of course I wanted to go to Cedar Point, but my family all hate thrill rides, so we never went. I’ve only ever been to Cedar Point 3 times, once with my best friends family, and twice for a school trip. I’ve been to Michigan’s Adventure more times than I can count, and I have so much nostalgia from it. I know it sucks but I can’t bring myself to hate it!
Love how the definition of cities being close is so different in the US, like in your terms every city in the UK is local to every theme park in the UK :P
I'd also consider not just what coasters are added, but what coasters are removed. My home park Kings Dominion has lost Shockwave, Volcano, and Hurler during their dry spell. The loss of volcano really upset the coaster community.
MewisMe700 I wouldn’t say they removed Hurler but rather, converted it into a world class masterpiece. Shockwave was also viewed negatively so they replaced it with a flat ride that is considered better.
I remember going to Michigan's Adventure when I was little. I live around Kalamazoo, and it was much easier to make a trip up there than to go all the way to the more expensive Cedar Point or King's Island. It sucks that MA is the bottom of the list:(
Daniel Peppa-Pig Powers Wouldn't CP be worth the extra distance? It's a several-hour-long drive for the flagship park of CF and the so-called "coaster capital of the world", vs 2 hours or less for what is the worst CF park in every way, according to this video.
@@aggroknight4259 well, CP isn't so family friendly, and it's a *lot* more expensive. Mich Ad is trash, yes, but it's dominated by several family coasters and a surprisingly REALLY good water park. the waterpark is honestly what sells the park.
Namely, they need to get King's Dominion and Dorney Park out of the spots they are in because both have way better potentional. Give Dorney a solid GCI and something from RMC. If this doesn't please the chain, then don't try too much harder. King's Dominion. Go nuts. Three coasters. Replace Volcano with a mack multi-launch. Get a B&M hyper or a B&M flyer, both! SIx flags america is sadly (for it), not competition to king's dominion, it's basically all Busch Gardens with massive population around. Now should they feed there starving children at the bottom sometimes? Yes, absolutely. And good for them for recognizing California's Great America has potentional. But I feel like they quit on Dorney after Hydra and King's Dominion after i305, and neither were built at particularly good economic times, so hopefully they didn't base there already days of future past around that.
@@harrisonschneider8333 which replaced hurler. Now volcano is gone, effectively missing an invert of any kind. Also so what, California's great america got rail blazer? A new coaster after removals and neglect is really a hopeful, its no guarantee til seen soon if any place I mentioned will be handled efficiently or at there full potential.
I mean, sure it's good, Cedar Point get's a new coaster like every 2-3 years, basically new texas giant 2.0 but taller and faster. To be fair, Mean Streak wasn't a very good coaster-not even so much the roughness (never thought it was that bad), as just being kinda boring. I'd never rank it in a top 10 list but then again I wouldn't MF or Superman-The Ride either and they are always on there. @@harrisonschneider8333
I went on the Beast last week. It is the roughest roller coaster I have ever been on (And I have been on several arrow loopers and two Vekoma Boomerangs). After the second lift hill, it is absolute torture. I don't care about the blandness of the layout, just retrack the Beast to make it a tolerable ride.
I may get hated for this but my favorite cedar fair park is worlds of fun I have only been to worlds of fun Edit: its confirmed that a 2nd GCI is coming to worlds of fun Edit 2:zambezi zinger has opened in june,a gci with titan track on the SPIRAL lift hill and curve around it
Awesome vid as always! the only thing to correct is the Toronto population stats, as of 2016 the GTA was at 6.4M (there was a HUUUUUGE undercount in the 2016 Canadian census) and the GTA grows about 100-130K per year. Then you have the Golden Horshoe area which is 9.2M+ from Niagara Falls to Toronto, and then the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, where 22-22M Canadians live (out of a country of 37M lol). Their main target, of course, is aimed at people living in the GTA, but they also target these areas and the N.E United States.
The way the US measures metro areas are much more liberal than Canadian measurements. For example the Greater Golden horseshoe area is equivalent in area to the Chicagoland and Washington-Baltimore area and is more populated and should be listed as 2nd on the cedar fairs market list. The other difference is that the Toronto area is rapidly growing unlike most of the US metros in colder climates, which is probably why CF has been investing so heavily into Wonderland.
Michigan's adventure may be a shitty park overall but if ur in the area I highly recommend going to ride shivering timbers. also if u want to ride everything else it shouldn't take too long
I had a similar experience about a month ago with Outlaw Run. I rode it five times. It was closed almost all day. It rained 3 hours, but stopped enough for the last 30 minutes.
As a longtime fan of Valleyfair, it’s a shame to see how little it gets noticed, to the point where Steel Venom, which would be hardly noticed at a large park, is one of the biggest attractions.
1st to comment! I would like to see how Cedar Fair decides the fate of attractions at their parks. One of my home parks WAS Knott's Berry Farm. It was a charming park with history. Once they bought the farm in 1997, they started gutting almost everything that gave Knott's its charm. First the Haunted Shack, Sky Jump, Kingdom of the Dinosaurs, Reflection Lake, & recently closing Mystery Lodge after 25 years. They built roller coasters on top of other attractions, trying to turn Knott's into a mini Cedar Point. The only good move was getting rid of the piece of trash Windjammer, for Xcellerator. I have been going to Knott's since the late 70's, and made the Corkscrew my 1st coaster @ 5 years old in 1981. I still miss the Wacky Soap Box Racers, & Knott's Berry Tales, but at least bring back the Haunted Shack. THERE, now I feel better. Hello from Phoenix Arizona.
I remember the Haunted Shack, I had completely forgotten about that. I'm too young to really remember the park pre-CF (I started going in the late 90s) but I did appreciate the things they did for the park right after the purchase (though Ghostrider was already in the works under prior ownership)
Knott's was my home park growing up. Windjammer sucked, and i still miss to this day the Soapbox Racers. I feel like the park fumbled around for a while, but once they built Silver bullet I feel like the park was beginning to find it's footing and at the moment i think it's on a pretty good trajectory namely because the replaced that bumpy Boomerang with Hangtime. Honestly though, they should bring back the sky jump, it was fun to watch inside and outside of the park, also effing terrifying.
I live in Louisville. You’re right about how we travel up north to go to King’s Island. It’s a bit of a drive but it’s so much fun! I go for my birthday. As much as I have fond childhood me memories of Kentucky Kingdom and I still enjoy it to this day, it really can’t compare to a spectacle like King’s Island. Some of us even drive as far as Cedar Point but it’s less accessible. Four hours is a long drive, and that’s only one way. You absolutely have to get a hotel unless you only plan to be there are hour or two (and of course no one does that).
Dorney Park doesn’t use its space right for roller coasters and thrill seekers always wanted cedar fair to do more with Dorney. Yes Dorney small but you can fit flat roller coaster and renew Hercules with an hybrid.
I feel like Worlds of Fun could be profitable. My hometown of Springfield is just two and a half hours away, St. Louis is about three and a half hours away, Des Moines is about three and a half hours away, and Missouri’s capital is just an hour away. I study tourism in Missouri as part of my marketing major, and Missouri is a tourism hub whether people want to believe it or not. Branson is in Southwest, MO, St. Louis is in Northeast, MO, and Kansas City is in Northwest, Mo. All of them draw a different crowd. Branson draws older folks and families. St. Louis draws mainly teenagers on small day trips, and Kansas City draws young adults into their middle ages. And here’s something different that a lot of people don’t realize, Missourians are more likely to travel farther on a weekly or monthly basis for some fun. Missourians are 70% more likely to travel two hours or more for a weekend trip on a regular basis. Worlds of Fun could see actual return if they built it up as a destination park for the Midwest. In it’s location, it could benefit from an on-site hotel with both weekend visitors for the park and people that are just traveling down the nearby interstate. Build a low cost, but technically record breaking ride like Six Flags, and they could actually pull decent attendance numbers. But that’s just my two cents.
Worlds of fun could become a destination park on the low. I live in kc, there are plenty of hotels within the area, more then enough room to expand, and I feel as if tho the 1 million a year is a huge understatement per year. If u ever go to worlds of fun it is usually packed, it also has oceans of fun which is connected to worlds of fun, which makes it a much larger park based off that. There is more then enough room to add a rmc raptor or even add a giga or launch coaster which are all very long shots.
Canada's Wonderland in the top tier? Disagree, clearly 2nd tier. Where's our Intamin Blitz? Where's our wing coaster? Where's our RMC? Where's our B&M invert? Wonderland takes a back seat to CP, KI, and Cwinds. Unless you're saying it's the 4th place park in the chain. Wonderland brings in the money .... and Cedar Fair takes that money and spends it elsewhere.
Well if you look at the timeline since CF took over, they've gotten MAJOR additions every 4 years or so. B&M hyper, B&M giga, B&M dive, plus Wonder Mountain. Those are huge investments over a short amount of time. They are missing a lot of great rides CP has but thats mainly because Paramount put in a bunch of trash before CF took over
Wonderland gets more than its fair share, 3 major coasters since 2008, getting a hotel and is designated as a priority investment park. The exchange rate is however murderous, so they have to do volume to offset..a la SF..lower prices/high volume.
Thanks to everyone who came to the premiere, I think we maxed out at around 150 people which is awesome. And there were a couple "misses" in this video. One thing is that Cedar Point's population center should consider the Detroit metro area, and the other is that Cedar Fair very recently purchased the land that Great America sits on so its no longer leased
YAYAYAYAYYAAYYAYAYAYYYYYYYY
Sweet let the crazed expansion begin
You also forgot the consider the Dayton area for Kings Island
The Detroit metro area still exists? I go on Google maps and all I see is abandoned houses and open fields
Canadas Wonderland also draws from the Buffalo-Niagara Falls area that's just across the border though most of it's crowd is from Toronto.
“When all of your kids are hungry, you don’t feed the favorite”-Coaster Studios
I see you everywhere 🙄
Skii Animation ?
Skii Animation why are u everywhere
Gtccoasters I’m a bot
Michigan's Adventure can't even draw from Detroit because they're closer to Cedar Point.
As someone who has family who lives near Detroit (Ann Arbor), this is 100% accurate. My aunt and uncle go to Cedar Point yearly, and yet have never been to Michigans Adventures once in their lives.
i had never even heard of michigan's adventure until recently by doing research for a huge amusement park trip I wanna do eventually starting with visiting every cedar fair park and I live in Indiana so there is no reason why I shouldn't have heard of it. it's also about equal distance of driving for me to go to Cedar Point and Kings Island because I'm in the middle of those two parks, but MA isn't that much farther tbh
@@AshleyChalfant88 its worth going to once because Shivering Timbers is fantastic, other than that there isn't much
Or Chicago either - given the drive involved it's better to go the extra distance to Cedar Point.
@@mikebarnes2294 they also have six flags great America
Imagine cedar fair being called “Valley Point”
That would be weird and work better as a park name
I was literally thinking the same thing lol
PointlessPickle2 Cursed
That basically would make me sense - a valley goes into the ground, yet a point would probably go up
🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
WINNERS!: Cedar Point, Kings Island, Canada's Wonderland and Carowinds.
Losers: Everyone else.
Worst loser: Michigan's Adventure.
To be fair, Knott's is the most popular park in the chain. It just can't grow any bigger without some drastic changes like expanding into its parking lot. Canada's Wonderland would need to do the same to expand, but it at least has some mediocre rides that could be refurbished or replaced to make it better.
With a B and M hyper coming to CGA, I think it is a winner. Also, Kings Dominion should be a winner.
Kings Dominion is a have though.
Reilly Walker What about a multi story parking garage?
I’m close to Detroit but I went to Michigan’s Adventure for YEARS before I ever went to Cedar Point. I’m a huge adrenaline junky so of course I wanted to go to Cedar Point, but my family all hate thrill rides, so we never went. I’ve only ever been to Cedar Point 3 times, once with my best friends family, and twice for a school trip. I’ve been to Michigan’s Adventure more times than I can count, and I have so much nostalgia from it. I know it sucks but I can’t bring myself to hate it!
As a Carolina native, I wanted to chime in about Carowinds - it's literally the only thing to do in all of North and South Carolina. It's practically cultural at this point - talk to anyone who grew up from those two states and it's clear that Carowinds is an enshrined part of the summer experience. If you wanna go somewhere and have fun for a day, Carowinds is basically your only choice. I've met many people waking up at 5AM and driving 5 hours from where they live in the furthest reaches of NC to get down to Carowinds for the day. It's status as a basically undisputed monopoly on the 15 million people in those two states probably helps its case, in addition to Charlotte's massive growth.
Ok why can you ride any ride you want 3 times on the 4th of July?? Shhhh
Columbia sc here, this comment is very accurate
Cedar Point is pretty much engraved in the Ohio culture at this point too.
Carrowinds is an amazing park. KI is our home park. I wish they had some more wooden coasters though, but the place is a Mecca of steel coasters. We really enjoyed it both times we visited. I rode my first Gigga there at Night. Wow what ride that is!
Best field trip, hands down. We went in middle school for a band competition, it was a rite of passage for sure. I think I rode Top Gun when I was there (1999 I think)
You put a lot of work into your videos. Much appreciated.
Thank you! And youre right about Dorney being close to the population center in Jersey as well as Philly, but that actually bolsters my point that Dorney has a pretty decent population center to draw from if they saw it was worth going to
Stamfordbridge, I was thinking the same thing. Very well organized and thought out videos 👍
Cedar Fair portrayed by SpongeBob:
Cedar Point-
Patrick: You took my only food; now I’m gonna starve!
XD
Knott’s Berry Farm: Am I a joke to you?
Person Guy yes
Person Guy yes
•Kings Island
~"I like the way you think, Blandy! But it's gonna take a lot more than a suitcase of cash to buy the Krusty Krab from me."
~"Oh, there's a lot more than that. The rest is over there. (Boat full of briefcases)"
•Canada's Wonderland
~"I'm crossing over to the _Dark_ Side! (Half of the Krusty Krab is dark)"
~"Why should I waste money lighting the whole store?"
•Carowinds
~"What's worker's compensation?"
~"You know, when you get paid for sitting at home!"
~"(Jolts up) You mean, _I_ can get paid while I'm at home?"
~"Yeah; what do you think compensation stands for?"
•California's Great America
~"There's just one thing I don't understand."
~"What's that, laddie?"
_~"That._ (Two Patricks laughing)"
•Kings Dominion
~"I'm done with my shift, Mr. Krabs! And let me just say, there will come a day when I will make _something_ of my life, and I will never have to set foot in this grease trap _again!_ (Audience cheering in the background)"
~"Yeah, we'll see you after your lunch break, Squidward."
•Knott's Berry Farm
~"SpongeBob, _why_ is my house filled with photos of your dumb junk!?"
~"Oh, I forgot to tell you. I took so many pictures, I ran out of room in my house."
•Dorney Park
~"Ah, what am I worried about? I've got plenty of friends! I can name _three_ right off the bat! Uh... (Draws faces on three fingers) The gang's all here!"
•Worlds of Fun
~"What a majestic view!"
~"What view?"
~"Oh, yeah! I forgot about your blindfold. (Removes blindfold; on a hot air balloon) Isn't it beautiful?"
_~"Very_ nice..."
•Valleyfair
~"Hey, what about me? Can I get fired, too?"
~"I'm afraid not, Squidward! You've got seniority."
~"Oh, yeah..."
•Michigan's Adventure
~"Give me a raise, or I'm quitting!"
~"A... raise? Hm. (Scrolls book) That's not in my Hiptionary. Help me get with it, Jack."
~"Stop talking like that!"
~"(Rips off hair) These sideburns aren't real."
~"I _need_ more money in my paycheck at the end of every week; _capiche!?_ (Silence; Mr. Krabs laughs hysterically)"
•Gilroy Gardens
~"The _Mitten!_ (Coughs) I mean... The Mitten."
~"That ride's for _babies."_
~"Yeah. Let's ride it just to see how _babified_ it is!"
•Geauga Lake
~"Close Glove World!? Has the world gone _mad!?"_
~"Well... that depends on your definition."
Something interesting to note about Valleyfair’s property is that while only 58% of the land owned has been developed, a vast majority of that remaining land sits in flood zones from the nearby river. Everything past the western access road berm, specifically where Excalibur and Thunder Canyon lie, is sometimes under up to a few feet of water depending on the season and year.
So while Cedar Fair might own a lot more land, not all of it is necessarily developable, which is a shame. It feels like their only option for a major new coaster is to replace one of the existing ones.
Another issue is the nearby airport which restricts ride heights to 275 feet. The Power Tower had to cut down its height from the original plans because of that restriction.
They could probably do something similar to the way they did excalibur. they designed both excalibur and thunder canyon with flooding in mind
Just kill Excalibur, and replace it with something good
I'm surprised that when you listed Cedar Point's geographical metro area you left out Toledo, Detroit, and Windsor. I've been a pass holder since 1995, and I can tell you that when you go there in the late summer and fall, you'll see about as many Michigan shirts as you will Ohio State, and tons of Ontario license plates. The Detroit/Toledo area is an important part of their "local" draw. People heading out just for a day will make that drive and back. Been doing it for years.
A lot of those Ontario plates at CP are from the Toronto area... tired of the second tier coasters at Canada's Wonderland and SF Darien Lake.
@@racingphotographer8251 this is true. Standing in line for many of these rides I've conversed with many a Maple Leafs or Blue Jays fan about where they were from and the parks they've been to.
@@matthintz9468 These days you're more likely to see them wearing Raptors gear...
Dont forget the Akron canton area
also Fort Wayne, IN. i'm located equally distanced to both CP and KI. i grew up going to KI every year until I was finally tall enough to go to CP and would consider that my homepark now. never been to Holiday world bc it is over 4 and a half hours from me. CP & KI are roughly 2 and a half hour drives
“Let’s start with another park heading into the haves, California’s Great America.”
Well that aged poorly
you know who is winner Michigan adventure
😂
Edward Isom Not Funny Didn’t Laugh. MA is my HP.
Dosware Pictures mine is KD and we’re supposed to be a top tier park but they keep removing our coasters and giving us decade gaps between coasters
Edward Isom Mine also used to be KD. Let’s hope they give good things in the future.
Edward Isom yah mine is KD as well I think it kind of stupid how we don’t get many coasters, but whatever hopefully volcano becomes something
Dorney’s situation makes me sad. I went to college near there and it’s my most visited park. And now all they’re getting for 2020 is a water complex renovation!
It’s a joke. There was all this talk last year that a new coaster was on the way. All fake news. Good thing there is GA and HP. Both are getting new coasters next year so DP will die on the vine.
It is sad. Especially since Dorney is near Six Flags Great Adventure and Hersheypark, which have expanded beyond expectations. You would think Dorney would follow in their footsteps but nope.
Dorney Park has the oldest Wooden Coaster on the east coast Thunderhawk. The wildwater Kingdom side needed investment the water slide system being replaced was installed in the 80's by the last owner. It needed to be upgraded. The original wave pool was the first of its kind in the east coast.
something exciting from gravity group might be heading your way after this pandemic clears up
So I’ve heard.
With the smaller parks, at least world's of fun, I'd rather just cedar Fair drop/sell the park and bring it back to local operators. Kentucky Kingdom shows it can be done
Not a bad ideal as World's of Fun was a lot better run, was competitive, and had bigger crowds when the Hunt's owned it....
But not all parks succeed. Elitch Gardens practically died after being released from six flags.
U should do this with six flags
That would be way too easy. Magic Mountain and Great Adventure top tier, the rest nowhere.
@@racingphotographer8251Actually Great America and Fiesta Texas seem to get more than Great Adventure.
Alan Trotter very true, great America will be better than great adventure if it keeps getting new coasters every 2 or 3 years
@@markmccormick6628 great america already is better, unless gadvs 2020 coaster is some crazy good coaster.
Oohh looks like we already have some controversy. I definitely would put Great America in the top tier of that list
As a someone from Michigan, I consider Cedar Point my home park. A lot of my family used to go to Michigan’s Adventure often, but I’ve never even been.
I grew up in Grand Rapids, used to go about once a year. Trust me, you're not missing out. Cedar Point may as well be my home park
I like to say I have two home parks because my family used to go to MA every year. That tradition slowly faded away and now we go to Cedar Point which is closer
@@toebel How long has Michigan Adventures been around? I grew up in the Grand Rapids area, but haven't lived there in thirty odd years, and don't recall hearing of that.
@@johnmullholand2044 They got their first coaster in '79 but have been around in some form since 1956.
Surprised you didn't include the Detroit metro for cedar point
I was going to say this too. Every coaster enthusiast I have met in Detroit considers Cedar Point their home park. It's about the same travel time as coming from Columbus and adds 4.3 million people to the nearby population centers.
Yep I definitely overlooked Detroit, didnt realize how close it was to Sandusky
Yeah, same. If you ask anyone from Detroit what their home park is, they will always say Cedar Point. It's not far at all.
@@AirtimeThrills I’d say that cedar point also serves the metropolitan areas of Toledo and even Fort Wayne
9:05-9:10 well this aged perfectly
"Lets start with one I think is definitely headed into the haves, and that's California's Great America."
*3 years later...*
California's Great America announces that they will be closing in at most 11 years.
That aged well lol.
As I was watching the video I forgot that this was posted a while ago so when I heard this I almost spit my drink out and was like “buddy you sure about that?”😅
Glad to see Carowinds in the "haves." CF has done a lot of work to turn a pretty lame park into a legit amusment park. It's so much better than it was under Paramount. It has the little quirk of half the park being in NC and half in SC, and the coasters CF has put in are all very good.
Fun fact, my friend and her husband are the family who sold Dorney park to cedar fair. Her family started Dorney, she grew up working in the park. They sold the park because their son had a life threatening illness. They wanted to retire so they could enjoy the rest of his life together. He sadly died about 8 years ago. Great family
I feel really bad for Valleyfair and Michigans Adventure :(
Thank you as a Minnesotan valleyfair is it for major theme parks and it's not even that great and I hate it I just wish we could get something here that was actually amazing but sadly that's just the Minnesota way I feel generally bland and uninteresting but harmless
i feel like Valleyfair could have potential as Rochester and Mankato are only 2 hours away. In total those two cities add 500k people. Nearby states like North Dakota and South Dakota have nothing and the many people who get layovers at MSP Airport could spend a day at Valleyfair if there was a big expansion or better advertising. Honestly we need a new expansion in my home park. Im tired of underwhelming flat rides like Delirious. I see potential in Valleyfair but maybe its just me.
@@escminnesota5543 totally agree!
@@escminnesota5543 absolutely right - I can't recall them even bothering to do any advertising besides the Halloween deal in recent years. Also, they have a huge ass parking lot, yet still charge for parking... that in itself reduces their profits, as people don't want to pay for parking right before paying to go inside - there's plenty of space in that lot, so them charging to park there is BS. They assume it's to keep people in the park for lunch, but the reality is it makes casual evening visits less likely to happen. I did have the season pass about 15 years ago, and got the parking pass as well, but even that requires you to pay the first time to get in and buy the pass itself. Astonishingly annoying, and not a good business practice. They really need to push the season pass again, and make it so people can casually go for a few hours in the evening; that summer my buddy and I went at least 30 times - I frequently picked him up from work and if either one of us said "hit Wild Thing a few times?" the other generally agreed, and Cedar Fair got some of our money each time, as who can turn down a nice hot pronto pup? :D
Valleyfair 5 Year Prediction:
2022: Planet Snoopy Expansion (hasn't happened in 11 years)
2023: Funtime Slingshot, Chance Unicoaster
2024: B&M Mini-Dive (Dinosaurs Alive land)
2025: New Show, Zamperla WaterMania
2026: Zamperla Nebulaz, Petting Zoo
Michigan's Adventure 5 Year Prediction:
2022: Larson Drop Tower
2023: Zamperla Rockin' Tug (old Big Dipper land)
2024: New restaurant near Thunderhawk, Corkscrew Removal
2025: Gerstlauer Eurofighter (Corkscrew Land)
2026: Front Entrance Improvements, New Petting Zoo Exhibit
Yeah its so unfair... why does cedar fair give every new ride to Michigans Adventure?
Ryan Thompson IKR like Cedar Point only has an RMC, Intamin Strata, Intamin Blitz, Intamin Giga, Intamin Impulse, B&M Wing, B&M Floorless, B&M Invert, B&M Dive, Arrow Hyper, and only like 7 other coasters.
Knott funny. My home Park is Michigan’s Adventure, and it’s still very far away.
Dosware Pictures just go to 6 flags great America instead or cedar point, they aren’t that far away
Mark McCormick Still pretty far, I might have to go to a hotel.
@Dosware Pictures I am going to cedar point and it’s 6 hour drive this summer, and I also have to get a hotel
Fast forward to 2022 and everything is different. Cedar fair sold California's great America, cedar point is adding restaurants left and right and a wild mouse, six flags is falling apart no thanks to their CEO and charging premium prices for the same experience so parks like dorney, hershey Kings Dominion are now slammed while great adventure is a ghost town.
This is probably my favorite video of yours yet. You can really tell how much effort went into it. It's great that it's a long video too. Keep it up!
Valleyfair also brings in people from the Duluth and Fargo area
But you're right about the new flat ride growth
Valley fair needs new coasters. I haven't been their since 2007 and I was floored when I found out they still haven't added anything new coasters. The water park is fun and all and it's has other shit todo but it badly needs a brand new coaster.
@@123456789554332 Maybe a B&M wing coaster and some sort of coaster that inverts, from, like, Vekoma or Intamin?
@@hmmyes7807 A Gerstlauer wouldn't be bad either.
let's be honest, it draws in people from Canada, Iowa, Wisconsin and the Dakotas as well - probably more. It's just a shame that those attendance numbers aren't a bit higher - but part of that is due to no new rides; and nobody, I repeat nobody I know wanted them to kill the Log Flume, Hydroblaster, the IMAX theater etc and put in that damn wave pool (and the astonishingly rough texture on the concrete all around it - got bad blisters just walking in that area) where they did. That was really poor planning.
If the Flume was getting a wee bit old, tear it down and replace it with a newer model of flume with a higher riders/hour number and problem solved (they never did properly support that ride, despite it being one of the most fun of all for little kids and those too afraid to ride "coasters"). But to tear down that whole section of the park for tanning chairs? D'oh!!! Don't blame Valleyfair for poor attendance, blame whoever forgot we already have 10,000+ lakes and not enough hot days to keep that new monstrosity packed.
The old tube rides were a lot of fun, and adding a few more could have been nice, but that whole new area screams of trying to sell overpriced food "brought right to your cabana" that was cold by the time it arrived since they don't even cook it there. Not a good business model, and no surprise the attendance numbers are down.
Like if worlds of fun needs a new coaster
Weve been going every year since before the orient was retired. I love this park and I will continue to go but yes it is in dire need of a new coaster. Boomerang is getting old just saying.......
Will we ever get a new ride and/or coaster 😢😁
TheNuttyMechanic boomerang needs to die along with dinosaurs alive like what a waste of space
andrew savoy vlogs ikr
None of these enthusiasts know or remember WOF in it's heyday when the Hunt's owned it.
The crowds were massive back then.
I love Cedar Fair! (And that's not just because they pay my bills).
Ah, the man who thinks anyone who's favorite at Cedar Point is Valravn is GP. What a surprise. Love this channel NOT!
@@Fury325Fan how is valravn good at all?
It crazy how much different you sound now compared to when you made this video.
The great America call doesn't look so good today though now with it be completely strap for possibly a large warehouse
Great video. FYI, as of 7/1/2019 Cedar Fair has purchased the land California's Great America sits on for $150 million.
Honestly, if I win the Lottery, definitely would buy that park
I would get rid of grizzly and put a giga in its place. I would put and rmc woodie like joker at sfdk
Yeah, every thing about that park aged like milk
Canada's Wonderland and Knott's Berry Farm are crazy with attendance. Top 2 Cedar Fair parks for attendance :)
Knott's has an asterisk next to it as it's open 363 or 364 days per year. Their average attendance per operating day falls behind the two Ohio CF parks
@Quick Caliber Since I live 15 minutes down the freeway from Kings Island, I have a platinum pass and did a driving trip to toronto to visit Wonderland for Yukon Striker, and what got me was in the morning it wasn't very crowded, but around 11:30 - noon, it suddenly got super crowded on a wednesday... I had gotten to ride what I really wanted, so waiting in line at the point wasn't that much of a issue.
Knotts is my home park and I have very good times there small park but a good balance of rides and some rides can be very compact like ghostrider or xcelerator etc.
@Sam I am so true lol
@@rarecheeto790 Knott's was my home park too growing up. It's always been fun, but they have better rides under their belt now then they did when I was a kid. I would like to see them explore expansion options, maybe a parking structure, maybe buy and demolish the buena park mall and expand east, i dunno, but i think acquiring some more space is something they should think about.
I love your channel please don’t quit because your not “big” I love how your super calm in all your videos and I can really tell that you love being an enthusiast!!
Almost should be 4 tiers:
HAVES" Cedar Point, Carowinds, Kings Island, Canada's Wonderland
THE COULD GO EITHER WAY: California Great America, Kings Dominion, & Knott's
The HAVE NOTS: Dorney, Worlds of Fun, ValleyFair and
THE PLEASE DON'T CLOSE US: Michigan's Adventure.
🤣
Under your system CW clearly belongs in the "could go other way" tier. It is clearly not a "have" park in a league with CP, Cwinds, or KI. It's the weakest link among those 4.
I’m offended at this stuff. Michigan’s Adventure is my home park and it’s still pretty far.
@@racingphotographer8251 given their massive additions on the 3-5 year timetable, I dont see why this park is 2nd tier. Just because Cedar Fair didnt start with much doesnt diminish what theyve added recently
@@AirtimeThrills KI and Cwinds both got puked on by Paramount. Unfortunately, unlike those two, CW still looks like a Paramount park today.
One thing to factor in for Michigan's Adventure is that, besides Cedar Point down in Ohio, it's the only amusement park within a 'day trip' driving distance for most of Michigan. So while Grand Rapids might be the only close city to it, there are actually several million people who have the choice of "Michigan's Adventure" or "two-day trip somewhere". Cedar Fair could probably make money if they just invested a bit in the park, because for many people from Michigan it's the only amusement park they might get to visit yearly.
I agree with your comment. Grand Rapids alone has 1.5 million people, but there are likely 3 million people or more within a 2 hour drive from the park, especially cities in southern Michigan, and only 3 or 4 hours to Chicago and Detroit or likely 10 million people.
The fact of the matter is that Cedar Fair wants all those people to go to Cedar Point, and not Michigan's Adventure. That's why it doesn't change.
Carowinds draws from Columbia and Greenville-Spartanburg, SC, as well as Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and splits Raleigh and Durham with King’s Dominion. All of these metro areas are booming!
Facts. He only mentioned Charlotte for Carowinds but he mentioned Baltimore which is a 2 hr drive from KD
yeah man. there are apartments and neighborhoods being built EVERYWHERE. kinda sucks cause it makes the traffice much worse
I think he only mentioned Charlotte because that market is a given for Carowinds. Those to the west could go to Dollywood or those to the south could go to SFoG, while those in the north could go to BGW or KD. I'd say with all their investments there it makes alot of people more willing to drive to Carowinds but they share a 50/50 shot in the outlying markets with the parks mentioned.
Most of the Cedar Fair target population (middle class with disposable income) live to the west and south of the Raleigh-Durham area (Cary, Apex, Holly Springs, Pittsboro, etc.). Additionally driving past Richmond, VA from NC is a pain in the *** (I drive it about once a month). As such, Carowinds has a much more than 50% of the market in that area. Dollywood is closer for western NC, but western NC is sparsely populated, so there isn't much of a market in that area. Having lived in South Carolina, people as far as Charleston also are drawn to Carowinds, given that there really are no other parks of any significance that service South Carolina. With these factors in mind, probably 75% of the population of North Carolina and 85%+ of the population of South Carolina are in the market of Carowinds (about 8 million) would probably look at Carowinds as the closest park. And that doesn't include those from northern GA who would travel to Carowinds rather than going to Six Flags.
Yeah I don't understand why he didn't include the Atlanta Metro area. Sure we have Six Flags but everyone I know in this area makes day trips to Carowinds all of the time.
I'm also very confused why he said it was the only major park within a 4 hour drive of Charlotte when both Six Flags Over Georgia and Dollywood take under 4 hours to reach from the metro area...
I actually thought that even though Michigan’s Adventure has the lowest attendance in the chain, it still offers one of the largest profit margins for Cedar Fair somehow. Even so, I don’t see much reason for expansion.
Also, I want to compliment you on this video. It makes me so happy that someone actually takes nearby metro populations into account (this also sort of appeals to my geography nerd side). But yeah, it’s so important to pay mind to major population centers around a theme park. That’s the kind of research I really like to hear about in regards to theme parks!
Despite the low contribution to the overal revenue, the park is apparently profitable for the chain so yeah as long as that's the case I'm sure they are content where they are with MA
Thanks Great Reporting
It’s probably because they have a monopoly atleast on that part of Michigan. So the few people that are there have no choice and cedar fair has to do little to no work.
Michigan's Adventure is listed as getting 1.2 million visitors a year. Could double that if Cedar Fair did anything with it.
@@brianmcfeely9038 Since Cedar Fair no longer publicly shares its attendance numbers, I won't give any specific digits, but I worked in a job at a Cedar Fair park that allowed me to see attendance numbers across the chain for the last two decades, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that Michigan's Adventure does not get anywhere near 1.2 million visitors. In fact, Cedar Point Shores alone gets more visitors than Michigan's Adventure in most years. This was true before the pandemic, and it continues to be true today.
I can also say that Cedar Point draws a deceptively large number of its guests from the Detroit metro area, and from the company's perspective, expanding Michigan's Adventure would just take business away from Cedar Point, where people are willing to spend more money. As sad as it made me to realize this, parks don't just "earn" a roller coaster by existing for a number of years; it is entirely based off of attendance and profit numbers, and Michigan's Adventure just does not pull in the crowds to justify any substantial investment. Unless later studies reveal that both CP and MA can expand without fighting with each other's markets, CP will always win, and MA will always lose in this regard. At best, they will get relocated coasters and kiddie rides.
You should do this exact footprint of a video with six flags
In Michigan the majority of the population lives in the Detroit metro area. So we are 2 hours from Cedar Point or 3 hours from Michigan's Adventure. It just doesn't make sense to travel farther for Less.
Carowinds’ growth is the most impressive to me looking at the investments from 2010-present. Easily $100 million. A few years ago CF execs said they wanted it to be the Cedar Point of the South, so I’m sure they aren’t done. Plus they have the space.
Carowinds Phase 1 starting with Fury 2015 thru 2018 was 50M...Phase 2 started with 2019 Copperhead,the new themed area which will be built out & the hotel...another 50M. Cedar Fair is thrilled with Carowinds growth & phase 1 was beyond their initial expected growth goals. Carowinds like Wonderland is in a phased development plan & they will continue investing at these levels as long as they keep meeting or exceeding their ROI goals.
They’ve Used 75% of the land and parking is getting outta control some of that land will have to be used For Parking
As was pointed out in the video, Charlotte is the fastest growing metro area in the country and it’s demographics are young. That is why Cedar Fair is investing so much in it. They would be dumb not to.
@@kevinthompson6986 they have 100 acres of undeveloped land
Building Carowinds up this much is a real thorn in the side of Six Flags over Georgia and Dollywood as well. The most visited National Park in the country is less than half a day from Charlotte as well (Great Smoky Mountains NP). And Asheville and Greenville Spartanburg have been on a huge growth spurt as well. Asheville is a close to halfway between Dollywood and Charlotte and Greenville/Spartanburg is about halfway between Atlanta and Charlotte. That's a lot of market to compete in so the way things are going you have to bring your A game or become irrelevant. And parking decks are going to be the answer to all of these land development/space issues. If you can't spread out you have to go vertical!
A lot of people from Des Moines and Omaha go to worlds of fun
I live in Canada and I'd like to see Worlds of Fun just because it's themed to _Around the World in 80 Days_ and I think that's neat. Cedar Fair really should get more serious about promoting and developing its theme parks rather than letting Knott's be the only one in the chain that gets any love.
I wish that Michigan Adventure got more love. I consider Cedar point my home park, I've even done volunteer work there, but Michigan adventure would surely pull in more people from the east side of the state if it actually had good coasters.
I’ve heard that Allentown is pretty heavy on planning restrictions, which might explain why Dorney isn’t getting the Carowinds treatment.
Dorney has a Allentown water subplant o site next to steel force underground were Dinosaurs alive was that's why no major rides can go there can't dig supports. Portable flats can fit on the site.
Wonderland has what I would say the second highest metro area. It draws toronto and the gta, Hamilton Niagara Windsor London, the golden Horseshoe, Kingston and possibly Ottawa. They only have to compete with Montreal's La Ronde which I still see more people traveling 7 hours from Montreal to this park.
They're also competing against SF Darien Lake which is 2 hours away.
Agreed, the catchment area for wonderland is more like 8-9million people.
La Ronde is a dump that needs a Major renovation. Its dirty and grungy. Line flows are terrible, and layout sucks
@@racingphotographer8251 yeah but darien lake really isn't up to the standards that canada's wonderland is at.
@@racingphotographer8251 Darien lake sucks its basically a camground with one coaster
I've been to Kings island Cedar point and Carowinds. Cedar Fair spoils us man. We have some good coasters in Ohio. Glad to call Norwalk and Sandusky Home
I like this, but your knotts placement is weird. You cite it’s lack of new things as a reason, but still ignore all the other things they do outside of roller coasters that REALLY draws people. They were doing food tasting events while Disney was firing all its employees. Their Ghost Town Alive is unique in eve to way for a theme park. And you mentioned haunt, which keeps spook fans coming all year long out of adoration for that 2 months.
Idk. It feels like considering how big a deal they are in other faucets, and how they’re literally #1 even though expansion is impossible... it’s just weird to drop them to second tier just because nothing is ideal
Would love a video on the resurgence of the sea world company!
That's something I can look into
Airtime Thrills yeah i don’t understand how they were nearly bankrupt a decade ago but SWO and both BG are now on par with CF and SF top tier parks. Quite amazing tbh they played their cards right. I remember rumors of them selling SWO
Airtime Thrills as BGW being my home park I’d absolutely love to see this
would love to see sea world shut down lmao
Brady Andres those were fake rumors stop lol
If i was cedar fair, i would make a dark ride in one of the 'on the fence' parks.
I wish they would remove the garbage coasters in Wonder Mountain at CW (Thunder Run and Guardian) and put an RMC dark ride in there. Think Disney's Space Mountain on steroids.
Yeah
For real, everything doesn't have to be a spinning flat ride or a coaster.
@@adventuresinthemeparks6683 the "Have Not" parks like Wonderland get filled up with spinning flat rides. The "haves" like Cedar Point get all the giga coasters.
Knotts has a few dark rides already (Bear-y Tales, Calico Mine Train, Timber Mountain Log Ride), probably to create some synergy with nearby Disneyland, which is almost nothing but dark rides.
I'd recommend factoring in the Detroit Metro into the home park area of Cedar Point. Detroit is both geographically closer to CP then Michigan's Adventure, and if you asked someone from Detroit what their home park was, overwhelmingly that Detroiter would say CP.
When you factor the Detroit Metro area in, the population base for CP doubles to 8 million people.
Another "competitor" angle that wasn't covered -- Wonderland is 2 hours away from Darien Lake. Some Torontonians prefer to drive to DL since it's cheaper to get in and it's less crowded than CW.
Racing Photographer Except they have to go through US Border Patrol.
@@DoswarePictures That's no biggie, a lot of Canadians in these parts have NEXUS cards (like Global Entry but works in both directions)
@@DoswarePictures thats one thing I was thinking about, the hassle of crossing the border. Not usually much of a hassle unless you're "randomly" selected
@@racingphotographer8251 thats a lie. No one lies Darien Lake.
I think you are mostly correct however you are wrong about Knotts. It’s in the “haves”. The park has a ton of flat parking in 3 adjacent locations. A structure could really help open needed space to expand.
No doubt! I think that for the moment CF has been kind of thinking, if it ain't broke don't fix it. But it's easy enough to slap up a 5 or even 10 story parking deck. The infrastructure cost is minimal compared to building actual rides and buildings. Universal has some impressively sized parking decks in Orlando that work quite well for them.
rip great america, can't become a top tier park if it won't exist anymore in 11 years
I never knew Cedar Fair owned Dorney Park. I'm going to Dorney next week, and I am looking forward to it. I've been plenty of times and it has always been fun. With prices lower than their local competitors while still maintaining high quality rides Dorney Park is a great stop for your summer fun. High velocity coasters like Steel Force and Talon are sure to excite the thrill seekers. Constrictor and Aqua Blast are great for those who want to slide around and get wet. And for the more laid back crowd check out a Cabana and relax by the Wave Pool. Whatever kind of adventurer you are Dorney Park is the place to be.
Was that copy and pasted from the website?
@@adaml.5355 No, just felt like advertising for them lol. I went last week and once again it was a great time.
This is seriously becoming one of my favorite channels. These videos about the current snd historic macroeconomics/macromanagement of chains us super interesting.
Agreed.
You also can't go wrong with the intro music. You listening Coaster Fanatics?
Dorney Park is also very close to New York/Newark metro area
Mike Connolly Yeah, but why go there when you got SFGA or Hershey Park?
NEONProductions a lot of PA schools have field trips there and PA hosts Music in the Parks there
@@etheralonyx4471 True, well, mostly summer camp groups, as sons schools in the area prefer to go somewhere more expansive, like Hershey
@@etheralonyx4471 some*
NEONProductions yeah when I went to summer camp I went to great adventure and Dorney park
I think the reason Cedar Fair invests so heavily in Carowinds is because it's essentially the only theme park in either state (NC/SC), and while their are close-ish alternatives, such as King's Dominion and Dollywood, most in the Carolina's still prefer and will travel to Carowinds. Meaning the actual population that Carowinds serves is closer to 15 million. I could easily see Carowinds becoming one of the most profitable and attended in the chain within 10-15 years.
It’s nice how much love they’ve been giving Carowinds lately. I hope they’ll do the same for Kong’s Dominion since Busch Gardens is set to ramp up their coaster game.
Carowinds market is infinitely better than KD's. CF has stated about a year ago in conf call the priority investment parks are Knotts, Cedar Point, Wonderland, Carowinds, and CGA. Cedar Fair has at Cedar Point an analyst day Aug where they stated in a slide presentation "The near term priority will be the tourist market in Southern California." So, one could take that to mean the rumored expansion of Ghost Town at Knotts is even more likely than speculated.
Question about Worlds of Funs population draw. You include the outside metros for several other parks but not Kansas City. Omaha/Lincoln Nebraska has a population of 1.3 million between the two metros and it's only a little over three hours to go there. There is also the rest of the state of Nebraska and Kansas that would make this the closest Amusement park to them.
Kevin Krupski you can also include a big chunk of Iowa in that area as well.
@@mpaul1982 yes and no for Iowa. Adventureland in Des Moines is pretty nice and closer for the Iowa residents. Then again worlds of fun is the better park.
Kevin Krupski Adventureland is a nice little park but I know a lot of people here in Des Moines that prefer going to Worlds of Fun.
Michigan’s adventure gets the best things in the chain like BRAND NEW SHINY trash cans and park benches. That is so much better than a stupid giga or RMC.
Yeah, some of the trash cans at Canada's Wonderland still say Paramount...
Paramount should run Michigan’s Adventure. They could theme a bench to Forest Gump!
@@DoswarePicturesHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You win TH-cam with that statement.
When you leave out Hampton roads as a huge population center
I agree for sure
Yeah he did (for Kings Dominion).
I'm from down there and half the people I went to school with didn't even know King's Dominion existed. Everyone just goes to Busch Gardens, which is somewhat a shame that they won't travel the extra hour, but it makes sense I guess.
PiplupJamesBattle he didn’t. Go back and look where his dots were
Timmy Jung I’m as well from there but we always knew kings dominion as the cheap park which it really was in comparison from Busch gardens so a lot of lower income families found it cheaper to go to kings dominion rather than Busch gardens
>tfw you're a coaster enthusiast
>tfw you also have Worlds of Fun as your home park
I love world's of fun, especially going late nights in October. Deserves a new coaster
Worlds of Fun is EXTREMELY underrated, we have some great coasters. I think if they’d invest a little more in each of the have not parks the parks would have more attendance. I just ended the video when you said cedar fair does not spread their wealth around. I extremely agree and personally I think that’s a bad business model. The more you put into a park the more attendance you’ll get. They need to get that in their heads or else they could be headed down hill. Heck what do I know I’m just a grouchy park guest who has common sense unlike the leaders of the company.
Edit:
I should also add that having no A/C during the hot 90 degree summer weather is NOT a good business model to attract guests.
Yeah CF isn't giving small parks that produce little revenue and ebidta much. It's called ROI. They are doing horrible...you might want to look as t their financials. Just reported Great Q2. Compare to SF..the quarter was cramped on by wall street and the stock plummeted after earnings for the 3rd quarter in a row. CF was up 3percent after q2 results. Cf reported great numbers and organic growth were the something SF can't do and are trying to cover it by adding more parks on leases and wall street isn't buying it no matter how much JRA tries to spin it.
Cedar Fair is capitalist towards their parks.
Six Flags is socialist towards their parks.
Can't get simpler than that.
Pretty basic but generally accurate
@@AirtimeThrills I have a question. Does this mean that coaster enthusiasts are generally economically conservative?
@@harrisonschneider8333 i dont think there's any connection there one way or another whatsoever
@@AirtimeThrills Ok
Biggest loser was Geauga Lake.
Truth. But from a business standpoint......the move was brilliant. Buy the competition which is "too close to home" and then shut it down. All the while, cannibalizing Geauga's resources to provide "new" experiences for other properties in the Cedar Fair offerings. As much as it sucked....the endgame was EPIC.
@@BackSeatJunkie I am inevitable.
Almost surprising that Michigan’s Adventure hasn’t already met the same fate.
While now we know CGA got sold.
I would consider adding Detroit to Cedar Points area served.
KC local here, I think Cedar Fir has been focusing more on Oceans of Fun for the last 8 years as they try to establish themselves as the premier water park and force schlitterbahn out. They've added some flat rides to the WoF side but mostly been upgrading everyhting on the OoF side. We are over due for a new coaster tho, as Mahomes says, KC is on the rise. (Just not as fast as Charelotte)
Oh how this video aged.
"There really arent any other cities near Canada's Wonderland"
Hamilton, Barrie, Kingston, Kitchener, London: "are we a joke to you?"
Thats 2 million alone
You get my point. 40% of Canada’s entire population lives in the St Lawrence lowlands. There are other cities around here.
@@AmonAmarthFan609 Absolutely
Your forgetting London, and pretty much everyone in southern Ontario. Its the only area and I'm about 2 hours out, Nd my work place goes. The basis is probably atleast 20 million.
I’m not sure where you’re getting your detailed reports on attendance and revenue brought in for each park. I can see the reference on Cedarfair’s Wikipedia. It states Valleyfair in the range of 1-1.99 mil tied with King’s Dominion, Dorney Park, and California Great America. It’s a park that’s so remote that the only competition is Nickelodeon Universe. Stagnating numbers are largely a result of a lack of investment from Cedarfair. Everyone I speak to simply says why go when you feel like you’ve already experienced it. Valleyfair just accepts that it’s a revenue stream for everyone else’s parks. The fact it’s even holding decent attendance numbers with such a lack of investment from Cedarfair is impressive.
I gotta say growing up in KC it’s hard to hear that a park that everyone is so nostalgic about (worlds of fun) is at the bottom of the barrel for cedar fair. Can’t argue with the facts but it really is noticeable how long the park has gone without a ride. There are talks that the boomerang at this park will be torn down as it’s never operational and that section of the park is blocked off. I don’t run a theme park so I can’t speak to the numbers but I can say when patriot and prowler opened the crowds were massive for the season so I imagine they made some sort of return on investment. The oceans of fun water park also seems to be a needle in the side of the park. A competing water park opened 40 minutes away that obliterated attendance to oceans of fun and the crowds never really came back. I can’t help but feel the money spent maintaining oceans is lost. Even though the closest park to me is bottom tear I am glad it’s a cedar park as the staff and safety of the park is great.
Please tell me the water park your talking about isn't shitterbomb? Hahaha nobody goes there it doesn't effect oceans of funs attendance at all
@@TheNTMG Yeah that is the case now after the slide incident but when it first opened it was super popular.
Dorney is my home park. Honestly, I'm okay with not having a new coaster every year. I really wish they had expanded Wild Water Kingdom instead of replacing many of the simpler attractions. I know that's a bit of nostalgia talking, but I really enjoy competing with my friends to see who can muscle their way across the lily pad lagoon first, or suddenly dropping ten feet off the end of a short slide. I think the better-rides-less-often model is a sound plan. Would I be excited to see a high powered, twisting, looping, thriller of a roller coaster? Absolutely, but that would hold me over for a while. Come to think about it, I could really go for a wooden or hybrid coaster.
And Hershey is only a sort-of competitor for Philadelphia; it's twice the price and twice as far away. I noticed that you completely ignored the water parks at these locations. Dorney and Wild Water are one ticket, can both be done in a day but are better in two, and are a third the price of doing both Six Flags parks in Jackson. For those of you who couldn't give a darn about beating the heat... it's actually a bonus. Wild Water takes most of the visitor traffic during the day, meaning lines for coasters are short to non-existent. I think the addition of single rider lines would be great, too.
Hahahhaha, I'm just laughing at Worlds of Fun in The Have Nots as of August 19th, 2022. This is because we all know what Worlds of Fun is getting for 2023!
lol..they got a 12-14M coaster after a decade of nothing. Parks get or do not get things for a reason, their finances, market, expected ROI, etc.. WOF took a decade to get something cause they do not produce much. 80%+ of all revenue & ebidta come from the big 5 parks, that's why they get stuff all the time
Gilroy Gardens is only run by Cedar Fair, It is owned by the city of Gilroy.
9:06 this aged Terribly
this whole video aged terribly lol
I live in Grand Rapids soo sad because I am a coaster fan
Shivering Timbers looks great but the park really needs a new big good ride it looks like...
Yes
As a native of the Charlotte area, Carowinds is one of the few fun things to do in the area that don't involve booze or NASCAR. I didn't like going there as a kid, I always preferred going to the Pavillion down at Myrtle Beach rather than going to Carowinds. Now as an adult though, I love it, cause it's a great place to hang out with friends and listen to people from Ohio complain about the heat.
when you realize Michigan’s Adventures is your home park and it’s ranked at the lowest on the list: 😢
For Canada's Wonderland, I'd say the entire Golden Horseshoe region would be a suitable population for the park. That's over 9 million people!
All of these parks are on my list of where to go including Michigan's Adventure (except Valleyfair because that's my home park so not really in a hurry). I think Dorney Park and Valleyfair have plans for a new coaster in the near horizon. With Michigan's Adventure getting the new Camp Snoopy, I think that park is starting to get more attention in the chain. I think Kings Dominion should get some more attention as well for the reasons you just explained earlier and I think it will if they're going to put something where Volcano used to sit. I think it's important to remember that just because some parks may be more successful than others doesn't mean they shouldn't be overlooked.
Another (small) issue for ValleyFair. Its built across the river from a small airport, so rides have a height limit of 275 feet (reached by the Power Tower, who's original desigin called for a 300 ft tower.)
Every time I go to Kings Island or cedar point it feels like there's millions of people there that day...lol
Yeah and it drives me fucking crazy..
Mostly because I just hate people 😜😂
Great video ❤️
* When you realize that camp Snoopy in mall of America was a cedair fair park *
Worlds of fun has a camp snoopy
So does Knott's and Cedar Point
Coming from someone in Michigan, literally everyone here thinks of CP as our home park. I live just south of Michigan Adv. and have never gone lol. Been to CP 4 times.
I’m close to Detroit but I went to Michigan’s Adventure for YEARS before I ever went to Cedar Point. I’m a huge adrenaline junky so of course I wanted to go to Cedar Point, but my family all hate thrill rides, so we never went. I’ve only ever been to Cedar Point 3 times, once with my best friends family, and twice for a school trip. I’ve been to Michigan’s Adventure more times than I can count, and I have so much nostalgia from it. I know it sucks but I can’t bring myself to hate it!
Love how the definition of cities being close is so different in the US, like in your terms every city in the UK is local to every theme park in the UK :P
I lived in Orange County, and it took me about 1.5 to 2 hours to get to six flags magic mountain, i wouldn't consider it my "local" park.
I'd also consider not just what coasters are added, but what coasters are removed. My home park Kings Dominion has lost Shockwave, Volcano, and Hurler during their dry spell. The loss of volcano really upset the coaster community.
MewisMe700 I wouldn’t say they removed Hurler but rather, converted it into a world class masterpiece. Shockwave was also viewed negatively so they replaced it with a flat ride that is considered better.
I remember going to Michigan's Adventure when I was little. I live around Kalamazoo, and it was much easier to make a trip up there than to go all the way to the more expensive Cedar Point or King's Island. It sucks that MA is the bottom of the list:(
Daniel Peppa-Pig Powers Wouldn't CP be worth the extra distance? It's a several-hour-long drive for the flagship park of CF and the so-called "coaster capital of the world", vs 2 hours or less for what is the worst CF park in every way, according to this video.
@@aggroknight4259 well, CP isn't so family friendly, and it's a *lot* more expensive. Mich Ad is trash, yes, but it's dominated by several family coasters and a surprisingly REALLY good water park. the waterpark is honestly what sells the park.
Namely, they need to get King's Dominion and Dorney Park out of the spots they are in because both have way better potentional. Give Dorney a solid GCI and something from RMC. If this doesn't please the chain, then don't try too much harder.
King's Dominion. Go nuts. Three coasters. Replace Volcano with a mack multi-launch. Get a B&M hyper or a B&M flyer, both! SIx flags america is sadly (for it), not competition to king's dominion, it's basically all Busch Gardens with massive population around.
Now should they feed there starving children at the bottom sometimes? Yes, absolutely. And good for them for recognizing California's Great America has potentional. But I feel like they quit on Dorney after Hydra and King's Dominion after i305, and neither were built at particularly good economic times, so hopefully they didn't base there already days of future past around that.
Kings Dominion got Twisted Timbers.
@@harrisonschneider8333 which replaced hurler. Now volcano is gone, effectively missing an invert of any kind. Also so what, California's great america got rail blazer? A new coaster after removals and neglect is really a hopeful, its no guarantee til seen soon if any place I mentioned will be handled efficiently or at there full potential.
@@oneandonlysound3453 What is your opinion on Steel Vengeance then?
I mean, sure it's good, Cedar Point get's a new coaster like every 2-3 years, basically new texas giant 2.0 but taller and faster. To be fair, Mean Streak wasn't a very good coaster-not even so much the roughness (never thought it was that bad), as just being kinda boring. I'd never rank it in a top 10 list but then again I wouldn't MF or Superman-The Ride either and they are always on there. @@harrisonschneider8333
I went on the Beast last week. It is the roughest roller coaster I have ever been on (And I have been on several arrow loopers and two Vekoma Boomerangs). After the second lift hill, it is absolute torture. I don't care about the blandness of the layout, just retrack the Beast to make it a tolerable ride.
I may get hated for this but my favorite cedar fair park is worlds of fun
I have only been to worlds of fun
Edit: its confirmed that a 2nd GCI is coming to worlds of fun
Edit 2:zambezi zinger has opened in june,a gci with titan track on the SPIRAL lift hill and curve around it
Awesome vid as always! the only thing to correct is the Toronto population stats, as of 2016 the GTA was at 6.4M (there was a HUUUUUGE undercount in the 2016 Canadian census) and the GTA grows about 100-130K per year. Then you have the Golden Horshoe area which is 9.2M+ from Niagara Falls to Toronto, and then the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, where 22-22M Canadians live (out of a country of 37M lol). Their main target, of course, is aimed at people living in the GTA, but they also target these areas and the N.E United States.
The way the US measures metro areas are much more liberal than Canadian measurements. For example the Greater Golden horseshoe area is equivalent in area to the Chicagoland and Washington-Baltimore area and is more populated and should be listed as 2nd on the cedar fairs market list. The other difference is that the Toronto area is rapidly growing unlike most of the US metros in colder climates, which is probably why CF has been investing so heavily into Wonderland.
Michigan's adventure may be a shitty park overall but if ur in the area I highly recommend going to ride shivering timbers. also if u want to ride everything else it shouldn't take too long
33 Hours!?!? I CANT WAIT THAT LONG
Also last night I marathoned L-Rod 5 times then it broke down. It’s been down pretty much the whole trip
At least you got 5 rides, thats 1 more than Ive gotten on LRod
I had a similar experience about a month ago with Outlaw Run. I rode it five times. It was closed almost all day. It rained 3 hours, but stopped enough for the last 30 minutes.
Iron Rattler Fanboy I thought you'd be riding Iron Rattler! :)
Connor Conant aka the only RMC that was closed during my visit to a park
As a longtime fan of Valleyfair, it’s a shame to see how little it gets noticed, to the point where Steel Venom, which would be hardly noticed at a large park, is one of the biggest attractions.
1st to comment! I would like to see how Cedar Fair decides the fate of attractions at their parks. One of my home parks WAS Knott's Berry Farm. It was a charming park with history. Once they bought the farm in 1997, they started gutting almost everything that gave Knott's its charm. First the Haunted Shack, Sky Jump, Kingdom of the Dinosaurs, Reflection Lake, & recently closing Mystery Lodge after 25 years. They built roller coasters on top of other attractions, trying to turn Knott's into a mini Cedar Point. The only good move was getting rid of the piece of trash Windjammer, for Xcellerator. I have been going to Knott's since the late 70's, and made the Corkscrew my 1st coaster @ 5 years old in 1981. I still miss the Wacky Soap Box Racers, & Knott's Berry Tales, but at least bring back the Haunted Shack. THERE, now I feel better. Hello from Phoenix Arizona.
I remember the Haunted Shack, I had completely forgotten about that. I'm too young to really remember the park pre-CF (I started going in the late 90s) but I did appreciate the things they did for the park right after the purchase (though Ghostrider was already in the works under prior ownership)
You know what knott’s really needs? A BrainRush reboot, and on a network that fits.
Knott's was my home park growing up. Windjammer sucked, and i still miss to this day the Soapbox Racers. I feel like the park fumbled around for a while, but once they built Silver bullet I feel like the park was beginning to find it's footing and at the moment i think it's on a pretty good trajectory namely because the replaced that bumpy Boomerang with Hangtime.
Honestly though, they should bring back the sky jump, it was fun to watch inside and outside of the park, also effing terrifying.
I live in Louisville. You’re right about how we travel up north to go to King’s Island. It’s a bit of a drive but it’s so much fun! I go for my birthday. As much as I have fond childhood me memories of Kentucky Kingdom and I still enjoy it to this day, it really can’t compare to a spectacle like King’s Island.
Some of us even drive as far as Cedar Point but it’s less accessible. Four hours is a long drive, and that’s only one way. You absolutely have to get a hotel unless you only plan to be there are hour or two (and of course no one does that).
Dorney Park doesn’t use its space right for roller coasters and thrill seekers always wanted cedar fair to do more with Dorney. Yes Dorney small but you can fit flat roller coaster and renew Hercules with an hybrid.
Trav Ortz you mean a hyper. I good grammer
Storm GD No it’s hybrid.... half steel half wood like steel vengeance @ cedar point.
@@thechamp18101 oof autocorrect made it from hybrid to hyper. I was saying that it was meant to be a hybrid because of grammer
I feel like Worlds of Fun could be profitable. My hometown of Springfield is just two and a half hours away, St. Louis is about three and a half hours away, Des Moines is about three and a half hours away, and Missouri’s capital is just an hour away. I study tourism in Missouri as part of my marketing major, and Missouri is a tourism hub whether people want to believe it or not. Branson is in Southwest, MO, St. Louis is in Northeast, MO, and Kansas City is in Northwest, Mo. All of them draw a different crowd. Branson draws older folks and families. St. Louis draws mainly teenagers on small day trips, and Kansas City draws young adults into their middle ages. And here’s something different that a lot of people don’t realize, Missourians are more likely to travel farther on a weekly or monthly basis for some fun. Missourians are 70% more likely to travel two hours or more for a weekend trip on a regular basis. Worlds of Fun could see actual return if they built it up as a destination park for the Midwest. In it’s location, it could benefit from an on-site hotel with both weekend visitors for the park and people that are just traveling down the nearby interstate. Build a low cost, but technically record breaking ride like Six Flags, and they could actually pull decent attendance numbers. But that’s just my two cents.
LOL...WOF destination park ..not a chance CF is blowing money trying to make that happen
Worlds of fun could become a destination park on the low. I live in kc, there are plenty of hotels within the area, more then enough room to expand, and I feel as if tho the 1 million a year is a huge understatement per year. If u ever go to worlds of fun it is usually packed, it also has oceans of fun which is connected to worlds of fun, which makes it a much larger park based off that. There is more then enough room to add a rmc raptor or even add a giga or launch coaster which are all very long shots.
10:36 "and it's the smallest park in terms of acreage" --also the smallest in terms of shade
um cga closing..... wdym going to the top tier
LOL I was thinking that too while watching the video it was funny but that's how outdated stuff is man it doesnt age perfectly everytime :(
Canada's Wonderland in the top tier? Disagree, clearly 2nd tier. Where's our Intamin Blitz? Where's our wing coaster? Where's our RMC? Where's our B&M invert? Wonderland takes a back seat to CP, KI, and Cwinds. Unless you're saying it's the 4th place park in the chain. Wonderland brings in the money .... and Cedar Fair takes that money and spends it elsewhere.
Well if you look at the timeline since CF took over, they've gotten MAJOR additions every 4 years or so. B&M hyper, B&M giga, B&M dive, plus Wonder Mountain. Those are huge investments over a short amount of time. They are missing a lot of great rides CP has but thats mainly because Paramount put in a bunch of trash before CF took over
Wonderland gets more than its fair share, 3 major coasters since 2008, getting a hotel and is designated as a priority investment park. The exchange rate is however murderous, so they have to do volume to offset..a la SF..lower prices/high volume.