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Population growth is linked to democracy... Its a popularity contest who gets the most votes. For so many years we didnt have a large scale destruction. We only created more and more. Things start to rot when theres no destruction,
It’s taken some effort to accept that as a later Gen X, we’ve become the “invisible” generation between the giants that get all the attention. The thing is that we’re taking over the leadership & top positions that can make the Millennial, Z & Alpha lives better. Gen X (especially latter) actually have more in common with millennials than Boomers & are already demonstrating the challenges forthcoming. Befriend us too to improve your lives🙂
I have a question, I quit my job of 10 years at a call center to be a gig economy worker full time. At first I loved it made a ton of money in the summer and fall but ever since November it's been a disaster, my car broke down too and had to get a 2nd one. Did I make a mistake? Should I get a regular job again? Or keep grinding knowing spring and summer are just around the corner?
I am fully self employed these days, as an electrical worker. Prior to this I had worked part-time for one company and self-employed for the rest. I found that when I had multiple income sources, I got treated better by all of them, as I no longer had a boss who knowingly had control over my entire financial security.
I find that hard to believe, Even the "digital nomads" of the west are facing competition from China and India. Imagine being independent contractor for coding or software development. And you're competing with millions of coders from china and india who also have access to be digital nomads in a country is less than a third when it comes to the cost of living and are willing towirk for less money remotely. Its not realistic long term goal
Millennials aren’t to blame for the gig economy because all they did was adapt. Massive, monopolizing companies started by removing full-time positions, pensions, benefits, vacation/sick pay, and began to only hire part-time and casual workers in order to save money. These companies could then drive down the prices charged for their goods, which were then bought by people who wanted/needed to save money, which then reinforced their behaviour. A good deal is a good deal. So, to combat this, people started to work multiple part-time/casual jobs which then turned into the gig economy. Plus, small business owners, in order to carve out a living while competing with giants, had to keep costs low so they had to hire gig workers as well. It’s a vicious loop, but it did have a starting point.
Even when Gigworkers were not independent then I would still prefer a Grabcar over a normal Taxi just because I would know the fare in advance. I always fear being scammed in metered Taxis...
Here in Germany, Uber drivers are required to be registered and paid similarly to taxi drivers. So the fares are almost the same. But like you, I prefer knowing the fare ahead of time which is why I book through rideshare apps.
As a farang in Thailand, the only honest taxi driver I met was a Tourist Police officer doing, ironically enough, a side-gig as a taxi driver. Really nice guy. But besides him, the only way to not get ripped off in Thailand is Grab.
It's no different than the pre-gig days when companies hired a bunch of part-time people instead of full-time to avoid paying benefits greed is going to screw humanity over eventually to where we can't adapt to survive. I hope I'm wrong
gig companies are profitable. People working for them are screwed. Colombian narco mafia is profitable, but those villagers who are working on the fields are not well paid 🤷
Problem is that lots of these 'tech' companies get cash infusions by VC firms trying to get in on the next big thing. Allows these companies to become zombie companies for a long while.
@@tomasxsd they are paid more than they would be if they growed legitimate crops and selled those. It's all comparative. The drug market is actually a really good example of the innate power of capitalism. Even with all the hard work in trying to fight drugs on both the supply and demand side, the market still wins. The same sadly goes for the even more sinister human trafficking market. Capitalism is almost like a force of nature.
@@dekippiesipThis is so incorrect that I don’t feel the need to correct you, but I will for any econ 101 students who see this. Nothing about that says that capitalism is natural. The demand for drugs is based off of cartels, which have a stranglehold on the market through violence, pushing a chemically addictive substance into the market. Consumers aren’t making a choice in that situation
Honestly can't imaging trying to pass myself off as a business person, and then also having the AUDACITY to whine about the expense of having employees. If you can't afford employees, then you have no right to be in business.
You are aware employees cost money right? If you want to hire good talent and retain it you pay more money for it, the cost is then passed on to the consumer who then whines they have to pay more money for something because the business decided to pay its employees a fair wage. Once you can solve this ancient problem, then you sir will be a very wealthy man.
You're right, employers can't be whining about employee pay. That's why I call gig work slavery. They manage to get people to work almost for free. Slave owners probably spent more keeping their slaves than Uber does keeping drivers if adjusted for inflation
But also having employees actually is more profitable. GIG companies have consistently failed to be profitable and have relied on running at a loss and being propped up by constant investment. Uber never has made a profit ever. What it does do though is give capitalists a greater sense of power. But it constant loss making means it's a threat to the economy where productivity will actually start going down. A good example of this happening is in the UK where GIG work was allowed to go unchecked and now their productivity is significantly behind that of other European nations. Also unlike what propaganda often says unions usually increase productivity and usually in the long term profits too. But they do mean the capitalists have to share power and they don't like that.
@@MrMarinus18No employees are more expensive. Companies like Uber are unprofitable not because gig work is more expensive than W2, it’s because they spend an insane amount of money on growing revenue and on R&D for their autonomous vehicles. Tech companies don’t operate like typical businesses. They don’t care about profits early on, they only care about revenue growth because they know that they believe that they can just raise capital from investors or debtors when they need more money. They simply play a different game.
Hey there! 👋Thanks for your comment and the love! We totally agree with you, sometimes the truth can be a tough pill to swallow, but it's important to face it head-on and work towards finding solutions. We're glad you found the video helpful in summarizing the issue. 😊 - Kate
The thing also is that almost all GIG companies are failures and usually the more a company uses GIG workers the worse they do. The GIG economy is a good example of why the idea that capitalists only care about profit is wrong. They are human and what they are after in the end is power and GIG workers are more vulnerable than full-time employees.
I moved abroad back in 2013. Struggled as an ESL teacher until opening my own business. Even during the hard times, my quality of life was still better than what I had back in Michigan.
That's awesome to hear! Paying down credit card debt and building an emergency fund are crucial steps towards financial stability. Keep up the good work and stay focused on your goals. You've got this! 💪🏼💰 - Kate
It’s not cheap enough to justify the convenience to me anymore. I did fall into a trap of ordering my food for delivery all the time until I took a minute to figure out why a $45 sushi order from 1.5 miles away from my apartment cost $95. I’ve gone back to just driving there and back myself.
The developers, servers, and drivers aren't free, and eventually the vc money runs out and you are just receiving the true cost of delivery service with an app on top of it.
That’s a positive thing. But you could even 1up it and walk those 1.5miles to the Sushi place to pick it up and get some free workout for free as well 😜 But small steps are better than none for sure 😊👍
@@ThizOne I would love to live in a walkable city or live near the walkable city center. Unfortunately I live sandwiched in a network of highways and the interstate. I would be flattened if I tried.
So if you cant afford to pay your employees correctly doesnt that mean you dont have enough money to start or maintain a business? Having "" the only way i can keep my business running is to barely pay my employees" is a horrible mindset to have as a business owner
Come on man its better to enlève to people with horrible working conditions and wages than lets them bé unemployed.... Yes, yes those business should not existe... When I hear that I Can only expect child labor to make a Big comeback
Sounds like Fiverr and Upwork, lol. What you described is not even the worst type of client. The worst is "I do brag to my consumers about how much revenue the company is generating, and how I'm a millionaire CEO, how much we are a caring and inclusive business, and I actually do have the money to pay the workers fairly without this affecting us at all. But...... I'd still rather pay the workers 3$/hr in a predatory manner behind the scenes........because I can. If I could not pay them at all, it would be actually ideal." There are a TON of these individuals, and the customers that support these companies or entrepreneurs have no idea.
@@Gstunfisk been doing business for years at this point. Have had multiple chances to fck people over but didn’t. The issues don’t stem from paying people. They come from the need to make more drastically every year. Most companies start their business off under paying their employees.
@@Kanjejou the economy needs to shift. We cannot defend bad business practices and expect it not to corrupt us all. What I’m saying is in this situation you’re either for people being paid correctly. There is no in between here
As someone who did gig work for Skip The Dishes, the biggest complaint gig workers have is there are usually too many drivers on the road for the number of orders. This means drivers spend a lot of idle time between orders, and we don't get paid unless we have food in the car. Basically, they get half of our time for free. They could pay drivers for all the time they have to be on shift, but then they would simply offer fewer shifts, and so most drivers would not get enough hours. In order to keep the same staffing levels AND pay drivers for all their time on shift, it would mean charging the customers more for the service.
When I work for someone it is my time they are buying. If I live to 80 I only have 349,440 hours of life left. Subtract eating, sleeping and s**ting and you'll lose another couple of 1000 hours. Why should I use that time for someone else unless they are paying me to do it ...?!
And how did you not know that before you accepted the work? I can tell you a biiig secret: Working at an assembly line where a conveyor belt moves 8 hours per shift you are payed for your entire time. Nobody stops you working there.
"In order to keep the same staffing levels AND pay drivers for all their time on shift" Why would any company even consider doing that? I agree that drivers should be treated like proper employees that are paid for all of the time they're on shift but that would obviously mean decreasing the number of drivers. You admit yourself there are already too many people doing it, why would a company pay people they don't need to sit around doing nothing? Go on any job site and look at listings that have been up for longer than a day, most of them will have 20+ applicants and only one of them gets the job, the other 19+ people don't all get paid just because they applied so I don't understand why people that do these deliveries expect that to be the case for them.
@@MezeiEugen When I first started working as a courier for SkipThe Dishes, the company was so new that they hadn't even put branding on their bags yet. There were barely enough drivers to go around most nights, and we almost never waited more than 30 seconds after completing one order and the next one would pop up on our screen. Fast forward almost seven years and they have an over abundance of drivers. The issue is that the company doesn't care if drivers get fed up and leave, because they are always recruiting new drivers to take thier place. In fact, I think they recuit drivers in the quantites that they do precisely so that they don't have to treat drivers well or fairly.
Raising a kid in the US costs $14,000.00 is an average. As a full-time professional, full-time single dad; it costs me $45K to 45K per year to raise two elementary school kids. With the inflation rate, everything seems to be increased by 10% for food, medical care, daycare, shelter, entrainment, transportation, school supplies, etc.
@@nottheone582 $14,000 a year for a child is ridiculously stupid. I'm a stay at home dad and I guarantee that I don't spend half of that per year. Stop buying name brand diapers, stop buying sugar/seed oil garbage formula, and stop buying expensive clothes. Kids clothes cost like $1.50/$3 at Walmart/Macys.
You don't mention how super rich barely pay into the pension system. Their is a cap that allows them to pay a minimum amount. That can be changed and massively improve the pension system.
It seems that millennials are their own customers in this gig economy. It’s like they created the demand for this. My parents don’t even know what Uber eats is and would never use it. Millennials created their own gig economy for things they seem to value.
You think that don't you? We didn't make this. You think a 20 year old had the billions to fund it? No rich boomers and maybe some gen x poured billions into this idea. They hired young millennial to build it, and marketed it to millenials, but the people funding it were rich boomers.
sort of. I certainly cook my own food as much as I can, but as a student in an extremely competitive grad program (70-80+ hour week on average with a 15 credit load) looking towards a similarly competitive work environment, the reasons I use ubereats, etc, when I do has a lot more to do with the fact that jobs are limited because management now runs everything (except their own compensation packages) very lean, i.e trying to get 3 people to do the job of 5. You can argue all day that it's my choice, but if my job/future is on the line every day, is it?
@@iamsuperflush ..and you cannot think ahead enough to bring a sandwich from home and save $20. I understand To me, you are rich. Or ery very financially stupid.
9:35 now I’ve thought on it, it makes perfect sense that employees are so expensive. You’re literally paying for their lives- literally everything in that life, from what they eat to what subscriptions they pay for.
That's the thing. That's is called the price of doing business and companies don't want to pay it because they believe they don't need to and are blinded by the bottom line. You're paying someone to do the work because you either don't have the knowledge or time to perform what needs to be done; doing so at the expense of them running their own business. If you don't pay someone their fair share who worked for you, then you are a thief who stole their time. Plain and simple. Things are very different today than they were years ago. It's a snowball effect and it gets bigger and bigger as people point fingers rather than tackling a societal issue head on. Now the corporate solution is just to replace workers completely with AI, and of course that makes sense because automation has always been the Capitalist dream solution since its very inception. People choose to work for companies because it's easier than running your own business or even being a gig worker as you are on your own. There's a sense of security there. Alas one day many companies are going to just collapse as more and more people wake up and strike or just walk away entirely; removing the very pillars of foundation that holds a company/corporation up. How long will that take and how many more generations will be throwin into the meat grinder is the real question. The bottom has been cracking for over a decade and the pandemic only accelerated the bottom fall out from beneath.
He mentioned 401k, sick days, PTO, but didn't even mention payroll taxes on the employer, all the social security and medicare ,"FICA", etc. the taxes the employee sees being taken out of their check before they get their money are only half, because the employer also pays that much. Plus the employer pays worker's comp, unemployement, disability tax, etc. That's why Uber prices will be 40% higher if the law passes and most Uber drivers were trying to get it voted down. But yes, as you said, my employer is paying for my car payment, my car insurance, my mortgage, my student loan payment, my gas, my cell phone, my wifi, my electric bill, water, sewage, gas, my vacations to Hawaii and Mexico, they pay for me to go out to dinner, go to the movies, etc. So I get why people complain they're not paid enough, but honestly while you're not paid as much as someone you follow on instagram, they're probably paying you pretty well if you think about all of the things your employers allows you to do.
That shouldn't be the case. Labor is getting far too expensive, rather overpriced actually. Wages are a function of productivity; how much the worker spends on food or entertainment is irrelevant.
@@Anti-Taxxer Productivity has risen steadily over the past 30 years. Why haven't wages then? Record profits in many sectors but the extra rewards only seem to filter down to the upper management level. I work longer hours than either my father or my grandfather for not much more in pay than they got. Why is that?
19:06 You got your data wrong. As a French, and having read the actual official report on the pension system, i can tell you that the system is neither broken nor in need of a reform. The reform was unjust and unecessary, and is basically a scheme to favor private pension funds. The fact that there is less active ppl per retiree than before is more than compensated by the rise of economic output per active ppl.
I know it might be too much for some but, hear me out. All the problems you listed (and many others) happen when the system is planned for everything to either be profitable or not existing.
This part. The fact that they did a whole ass video and somehow totally sidestepped a critique of capitalism is laughable. People are in denial about the system they are participating in
@@nottheone582 please detail your proposed alternative. I'm geniunely interested to hear about a different system that has worked, or a new one that hasn't been tried.
"The system" you are describing is merely human nature. Profits are the incentive for people to do something. Without profits, there is no incentive. This is not a problem. The only ones who "suffer" under this system are the least productive people in society--the ones who are barely above parasites. Those who deserve no sympathy. You should think twice before criticizing profits. The only reason you get to share your moronic opinions on the internet is because someone was able to make a profit by providing that ability to you.
I stopped using all gig services. I might have to use Uber in the future if a taxi is not available! I stopped Doordash and Ubereats. I also stopped using Amazon and all streaming apps. I am saving so much!
Well, this is one of those situations like climate change, where boycott has little to no impact since the prices of those companies are unfairly lower than the competitor's pricing, and I don't need to remind anyone that most of us live paycheck by paycheck.
The real problem is that we as humans have created an unrealistic unsustainable system. It's great for rapid growth and development but basically destroys itself when it caps out and it always does. The answer can't just be have more kids to feed in as cannon fodder to a terrible meat grinder system that works them like robots until the day they die. The answer is not going to be to replace everyone with AI either I mean who the hell is gonna buy the products and services produced by AI / Robots when they don't have jobs themselves? It's 100% designed to squeeze blood from a stone which is insanity. It requires a completely restructuring of how society functions quite frankly. The bad part is idk know how we get there without a total collapse of the current system which is not gonna be any fun for anyone alive or soon to be.
I've listened to a lot of very smart people pontificate and no one seems to have any feasible ideas on how to solve some of the problems we're heading for in the future. The lack of retirement preparation in coming decades is going to be astronomically difficult to solve, but imagine that in a world where the US is spending all of its tax revenues just to pay interest on debt, that's a situation we're rapidly heading towards in our lifetime. Imagine these kinds of problems with global warming on top. Imagine all that with natural resource shortages.
You're right, the answer can't be an economic system based completely on growth because there are not enough resources (at the American rate of consumption anyway) to be sustainable. (It's already unsustainable ecologically and economically.) And yet - that's the system we have, and nobody seems to have a better one yet. Research the term 'de-growth' for a possible glide-path toward sustainability, but in the meantime - lower your expenses to a bare minimum and make good investments.
Uber is charging 40% more here in Massachusetts and they are not passing it on to the drivers and no one is deleting the apps because the business is still there
Gig work. In the 1800s Lever Brothers in UK offered a prize to design a house. They also just paid the winner but owned all the designs. Check out Port Sunlight village which uses all the designs.
I was thinking about similar topic just yesterday. My wife is an artist. And now she's in the journey to better understand herself, whether to continue "self-employment" way and do her business, or to apply for some job in corporation like Supermicro or TikTok (which pay $100+k). My point is - that's right, if you can afford the full-time employee to cover your back, and you need them for quite a while (years) - then yes, it makes sense to apply for FTE. But if that's just one-time (or few times) task, for example, to paint the wall, create design or something like that - grants are the way to go. Grants (city grants for some development) are the same as "gig" in that discussion. What I think as the guiding principle for employers is the fact that any company has their corporate culture. And the idea is to develop that culture, spread it among workers, and benefit from it (because "culture" is the non-monetary way of compensation). For "contractors" the "cultural" aspect doesn't make sense. Sure, they have it, but from the bad perspective ("you use contractors - you can't or don't want to hire us - it's not fair, you cut the cost on stock options, insurances and other ways of compensation", something like that). And the opposite is true, if you don't develop your corporate culture (hiring just contractors), you're hitting your leg by lowering the desirability aspect of your company to apply for. My example here - opposite perception of Cisco as a company and LinkedIn (+Nvidia and some other desired companies). I think it's well-known that Cisco prefers (or preferred) to on-board contractors, so now it's less favorable for job seekers due to their strategy of getting the most from their workers and letting them go. Sure, employees get formal education and Cisco line in the resume, but broken expectations + less desirability for such workers (because they wasted time on short assignments) is still the thing for potential employers. And let's be clear, if you want to develop as some specialist, you need more than 1.5 years on the same position. And that's not only for "formal education", but for mindset growth, which is the primary aspect. So if you can't settle down, you won't grow. If you're always in a hurry (which is true for low-level employees, like, jr-mid-tier, and some sr-tier), you won't be able to grow to staff and sr staff levels, you'll just have no opportunity for that. And that aspect harms companies as well, you always need to change the blood, to grow your staff and hire new people, rotate the crew. If that doesn't happen, people get comfortable, and stop growing, stop making impact, and eventually just corrupt the company.
Imagine calling the decision to get paid 100k salary a "journey to better understand yourself" Must be nice to have no problems in your life whatsoever.
I don't know if it's just me but the video seems bright while the rest of the background has a dark shade. It's just awesome. Amazing video production and quality
I actually prefer gig work, particularly when it doesn’t involve driving a vehicle or riding a bicycle. There’s a common misconception that gig work only involves food delivery or passenger delivery. Nowadays you got gigs that involve working at a restaurant for a few hours or working at a warehouse for a few hours. Many time the pay is $2-6 more than what you’d get if you took up a fast food job. Sure you don’t get many benefits if any at all but in my opinion the benefit of being able to work whenever you want is a good enough replacement for the other benefits, especially if you’re young and healthy still. I sometimes work at Circle K’s for 4 hours when I need quick cash to pay off a bill. Earning my money without driving means no wear and tear on my car. I don’t have a car by the way. I use an electric scooter to get around and a replacement part on an electric scooter is cheaper. I’m also someone who likes to drink alcohol. With gig work, I’m not required to be anywhere at any specific time. So I’m able to have recovery days where I’ve got a hangover without losing my job. Another cool benefit about the gigs I do is that I can pretty much travel to any major city in my state and still find work. Im not restricted to any one location. And with the amount of different gig apps I use, there’s always work in different industries, whether that be cooking, packaging, scanning tickets at an event, cleaning up an office, merchandising, etc. The gig economy rabbit hole goes further than Food delivery, Uber, and Lyft. Hell I just discovered an app that pays its contractors to wash peoples laundry.
You know I work a gig job and I have been saving for two months to be able to pay for slidebean while also coding my prototype from figma to NextJS and MongoDB. So, this is an interesting video for people like me. I’m in the UK. So, these videos are all the start up vibe I get.
Hey, thanks for sharing your experience! Saving up for Slidebean can be a smart move, and I'm glad this video resonates with you as someone in the startup scene. Keep up the hard work! 🚀💪 - Kate
As someone who's lived in two different countries since early 2021. Being a "digital nomad" it can start sucking really really really fast. And it's very hard to get out of once you've committed the resources to the move.
That first sentence served no purpose other than your desire to tell people that you lived in two different countries at every opportunity. "As someone who travels a lot of lives in multiple countries because I'm so awesome, that breakfast was delicious."
@@B3Band how would I know how much being a digital nomad can absolutely suck unless I've done it...? Just saying "being a digital nomad can suck" gives no context that I've experienced it. And I'd have someone else commenting. Saying I'm stupid because I've probably never left my hometown. So...
@@B3Band I believe your projecting. Maybe it's something you really want to do yourself. Cause nothing she said made me think "oh wow she traveled before and she's better than me!". It's literally just her bringing context to her statement.
Why would anyone be a gig worker when there is such a huge demand for skilled trades. They will train you and pay you at the same time. You can't find a plumber anywhere.
my brother who is an electrician constantly complains that he can't find new employees but refuses to pay them more than minimum wage. That's why no one is going into trades.
This is great information, very accurate. I work in the Auto Hail Damage repair business. It’s dominated by independent contractors, because it’s near impossible to hire full time staff in businesses that depend on the weather.
except... you should know that corporations have a lot of political power due to lobbying in the US, so you can't easily just blame the individuals here
A friend of mine tried DD, she said she constantly waited for orders and having to drive over to next city or county to pickup any activity. Total waste of time it was for her.
Here, in Indonesia, people are going back to using taxi instead of online ride. Because, apparently people realize that taxi company are quite efficient in the first place, and the price is pretty fair for everyone, the customers, the company and the driver.
I don’t think gig workers are the problem. I think it’s the fact that we switched from defined benefit to defined contribution plans. Defined contribution plans are great if people contribute to them. But so many people don’t save any money. It’s the mindset of people today. Living paycheck to paycheck. Credit card debt etc.
I think the effects of the GFC on millennials is vastly underestimated. It created a corporate culture where it was seen that companies needed our money more than we do to maintain employment. Governments use the balance of payments to prop up corporations at the expense of tax payers. Western society is living artificially cheap by pushing us down the societal hierarchy. You are just as talented, more educated and hard working and higher performing than your parents were. Nevertheless you are working class despite your high-tech job and avocado toast lunch. We need to have the playing field levelled and we need to stop pricing our lives around people who established their lives in a long gone era.
On the contrary, western society has become unnecessarily expensive due to misguided attempts to "level the playing field." You are entitled to nothing. Just because your parents had it, doesn't mean you must have it too.
Something that was missed, is how so many of the younger working generations USE gig such as Skip, Uber (and Eats), Door Dash etc. The prices are often 20% more than you would pay in store, followed by if they don't tip at least another 20% they won't get their pizza delivered. Yet they pony up rather than learn to cook or simply just order from the restaurant and go get it themselves. It's not just those working, but those who spend so thoughtlessly who won't have retirement funds.
American healthcare is expensive essentially 99% because of payors. It's not insurance, it's coverage. Insurance is for rare/unexpected/catastrophic events. Coverage is for common/expected events. The amount of cost due to people not getting regular medical care and then problems spiraling is negligible. The real problem is that, while the payors are technically "non profit", they are actually for-profit, and that's effectively 100% of the difference between here and sane countries.
working in tech remotely can be a huge pain because i in canada, always have my job threatened by people across the world who have a lower cost of living. At the last place I worked I was a full time salaried worker in canada, and the company decided to go with mass layoffs so they could outsource out jobs to mexico for a quarter the price. How can i compete with that?
When Americans etc decided they cant be F'd going into the office - this was always going to happen, employers dont need you anymore if a remote job can be done 10 miles away it can be done 1000 miles away
I've been self-employed for decades and have no desire to work W2. I know I'm not alone. Depriving others of that opportunity to meet someone else's desire really isn't helpful.
Gig workers do not "work" for the tech companies. They work for themselves; the tech companies just hire their services on a temporary basis the same way you'd hire a plumber or a landscaper. It's an important distinction.
For Uber case - I think of not breaking any NDA, so... Our company subsidizes usage of ride sharing by granting the discounts or providing free rides in some conditions. Yes, not Uber, other services. And in this system - I think that's a win-win situation. I don't mind of the ride price + I almost always leave tips, unless the driver and their car aren't worth it, but still I don't complain much, because everybody should have a chance to become better. One exception is if the car was unsafe to drive/ride.
In my country, they made gig work from remote countries illegal. You NEED to have a local branch and hire them there. If you try and make a personal firm and give services outside, the taxes will kill you and most of the time people don't pay you because they bank on the idea that you can't fly over to sue them and neither are there any government assistance for the matter specifically to allow it. Result: We don't have such things. The only problem is tourism towns being unlivable because prices are adjusted to foreign money and a lot of apartments have turned into hotels.
The problem with the pension system... at least the US version (Social Security) is that we allowed the government to borrow against it. Basic economics says that if you leave your money in a compounding interest account and don't take any out until it's actually required, it will be there. But if you start borrowing against it and then have to pay it back in a hurry, you're gonna be screwed.
Gen X here. When I was younger, most people my age had multiple jobs with no benefits. Sorry, it's only gotten worse. I could see it going downhill then; NAFTA, IT jobs going overseas, customer service centers going outside the U.S., manufacturing jobs going to China. Once you figure out that voting doesn't work, you can focus your energy on other, more impactful, things. I'm not suggesting losing hope, just acceptance that it's almost certain things will not get better: - you won't be richer - you won't be freer through politics (unless your income is closely tied to government, like anyone who lives in Northern Virginia/Maryland). You can try to get rich in any of the multiple ways. You might succeed. And, yes, RICH is what you will need to be if you want to retire with basic comforts - health insurance, pharmaceuticals, human grade food (instead of pet food), a 70 degree thermostat setting, WiFi, cell phone, car, shelter in a low crime area, etc. But the odds are severely stacked against you. So find some _meaning_ and _purpose_ in your life that you can carry until the end, if things don't pan out. Because, let's face it, you can't control the forces against you, so you might as well control what little you can. Ultimately, it may only be the daydreams in your head. "Dreamin' is free" (Blondie)
I competely understand and respect your perspective as both a business owner and self employed person. I'll say I'm a many years self-employed boomer with millenial kids. I've had employees, paid their social security, worker's comp, unemployement and PTO/benefits with very litle understanding from the employee of all that requires. They call out sick, quit , have job issues or just don't show up. I gave up and just do all the work myself. I'm a lawyer. When I was an employee, I got 3 weeks vacation a year and was expeceted, and did work 9 to 5 Monday to Friday every day. I don't see my own millenial kids willing to do that and frankly I can't blame them for not wanting to be wage slaves. I'm an immigration lawyer. Many of my cliens are "gig" workers. They want to spend several months a year in their country. You can't really be a regular employee in the US and expect to take off for months on end and keep your job, so that works for them. Even if you're self employed, you're supposed to pay your social secuity taxes so you'll have a retirement benefit when the day comes. I don't think a lot of people get that. They're suddenly old and have noting. Please be smart people!
People will need to accept that, while there will always be time in the future, unexplored tech and lands to be found, the stuff that is developed and desirable will always be limited. In essence, every road leads to Rome, but not every road is desirable. Some are too rough, some takes too long, some are infested with bandits, some are congested. In other words, the stuff humans want is indeed zero sum. Someone always pay in the end. People reaping the benefit don't always have to pay because the payment for their benefit is either too far elsewhere, or some time in the future. Long ago I was a hard working person. It was then, I learned that there will be people that can work earnestly for hours and hours and never be paid the money they need, while there will be people that are paid for almost doing nothing. If was then, I have learned that, hard work without direction is futile. I also learned that, by occupying the cushy position, someone else is denied the seat. There will only be so many jobs where it provides a healthy work life balance, where it is not too difficult, yet not too easy to feel the effects of rotting away. It is a game of musical chair that all participants in society play, and the losers fade into the void and have to make do with less and/or nothingness.
It’s amazing how the theory that are spending habits and drinking too much Starbucks is the reason why we can’t afford retirement. How much coffee would you have to drink in order to not be able to retire and for that to make the difference? Meanwhile it’s hard to pay rent and go through this cost-of-living crisis. It’s hard to just survive. So the idea that all I need to do to not be broke is the save money that I don’t got and pretend like the only reason why I don’t have money is because I’m just spending it on Starbucks is Ludacris. This is the out of touch victim blaming best way not to be broke it’s a half money type of advice that I expect for main stream media. From some baby boomer host who is trying to not piss off the sponsors. How much money would you need to not only be able to afford to not work until the day you die and to be able to pay your every day bills , while also dealing with inflation and deal with healthcare cost the rising premiums and the fact that they sometimes they don’t cover illnesses that you can’t predict? Then there’s emergency savings and the changing landscape of the job market because of AI. There are ways of dealing with these concerns. We aren’t completely powerless. However the whole just save money you don’t have, your broke because you go to Starbucks, illogical stance doesn’t help. The truth is just getting clear on your concerns after defining your goals can help bring clarity to the issue which helps. Observation can lead to saving money and increased productivity. No matter what you do though, you can’t protect against every contingency. Acknowledging that things happen that are sometimes beyond your control and doesn’t mean you did wrong, can make it easier to see what you can control and improve on without being frantic about it.
Millennials just learned to work with what was available. It's like if you're given a bunch of puzzle pieces that don't fit together perfectly, but you figure out a way to make a cool picture anyway. The good side is that the gig economy offers flexibility. It's like having a menu where you can pick what you want to do and when you want to do it. This flexibility can be great because you can fit work around your life instead of the other way around. It's like having the freedom to choose your own adventure.
NO NO NO. As a contractor I don't want my employer to provide my health insurance because it creates a maligned incentive system. The individual healthcare marketplace needs to be deregulated in a way that makes health insurance more affordable outside of an employer. It used to be more like that before the ACA2009 - you would at least be able to get a high deductible plan without breaking the bank, which is what I did when I worked as a tech contractor no benefits in 2009. They should also drop the self-employment tax which is an extra burden on 1099 vs W2 employees.
Or, and hear me out, we could just create a national health care system like virtually every other advanced economy, all of which have better care, lower costs and higher life expectencies. Rather than pretending deregulation is going to do anything other than reduce quality of care. I moved to Portugal two years ago, a comparably poor country and holy shit the health care is awesome. Utterly unbelievable how it works here vs the USA. Why we accept such a terrible system is beyond me.
The LAST thing you want is a MORE deregulated market than we have. It will will allow insurers to charge WHATEVER THEY WANT. Which means the prices will soar. Other countries have highly regulated systems and serious limits on how much they can charge. That's the ONLY THING that keeps things remotely affordable.
@@RuthmarieHicks This is a myth. The reason that health insurance companies are so terrible is because the government allowed them to consolidate into a handful of companies. There is no competition. For example, Anthem and Wellpoint should have never been allowed to merge. There's also so incentive for hospitals to be transparent about costs because they can pass them on more easily. This is enabled by the insurance system we have in place. I wouldn't want to get really sick in other countries in because most of those other places have long wait times to get treatment and if you got something like cancer they won't treat you in time.
@@WinstonCodesOn I was taking care of my aunt, who had Alzheimer's disease. I did the same for my father, but in the USA. My father's last year of life rang up over $160k in uncovered medical bills. My aunt spent her last two years of life in Portugal during which time she of course delt with the progression of Alzheimer's, had a heart attack, a tumor that resulted in major surgery and radiation, and numerous other doctor's visits and hospital stays. Her care was top notch start to finish. She was sent to the best hospitals despite not even being a citizen and not having any private insurance. Her total cost for two years of care was about 20 euros. It's crazy what we do in the USA.
Maybe a first step that is actually capapble of happing would be getting the supreme court to overturn the decision (I think it was Ford vs Dodge or something) that officially declares that the sole purpose of a company is to make money for its shareholders and nothing else.
The production quality on this video is the best you guys have done so far! Wonderful! And the quality of content is also going up (but that was already very high).
Gig work is the new slavery. It's manufacturing hardworking slaves and the government is failing the workers. People already pay so much for Uber but Uber keeps up to 70% of the fares and they insult our intelligence by telling us that they don't make any profit. Uber bears almost zero cost of the Uber ride and keeps most of the fares and Uber is not event cheap. Taxis used to cost the same but the taxi drivers bore 100% of the cost of the ride and kept all the fare after taxes. Uber is creating a system that's close to a duopoly and controlling so much of the market and using its influence to manipulate prices and wages so that it alone benefits. The government needs to regulate these gig companies better. Uber drivers are not competing with low wage workers abroad yet they get paid below minium wage after expenses while remote digital workers get paid better even though they compete with foreign low wage workers. The government can and should step in to stop the exploitation and impoverishment of millions of its citizens. Gig work is not necessarily making things cheaper for the consumer but even if it does, it's wrong. You can't impoverish millions of workers in the name of lower prices, the economy needs workers to earn a decent wage to be able to purchase goods and services and keep the economy thriving. What's happening is that we're making a few tech billionaires richer and making huge segments of the population artificially poorer and that's bad for the majority even in the short term
gig work has always existed. some of the oldest professions were mercenaries and prostitution it's just that people are realizing its a cutthroat world and it's not possible for everyone to live a normal life
@@phoneywheeze No. Gig work started with Uber. I don't get what you're driving at. The country needs to correct a situation where millions of people work for multi billion dollar companies and can't pay rent. If it's happening to a tiny number of people, it's their problem. But a sizable portion of the country's population is engaged in this type of work it's a national problem
@@obiflex the thing is gig work is not employment. the people who actually work for the companies (for example software engineers) earn decent living. gig workers offer their services to the platform. upwork/fiverr etc work as a marketplace where people find clients, not as a workplace. one change I can see is companies like uber letting the driver set their own prices per hour
I'm a proud gig worker. I work for a locally owned and operated restaurant delivery service the platform operator is a good friend of mine are customers ostensibly are the restaurants we deliver for and our bosses are the end users of the service that we deliver to. My wife has a full-time day job with insurance for us so I'm covered there. And it allows me the time and flexibility to work on a few other business projects that are slowly making us more and more money each and every day. I don't want to be classified as an employee I don't need to be classified as an employee I don't wish to be classified as an employee. The last time I had a full-time job as an employee even during my downtime I was not allowed to work on other business projects outside of my day job. And the company saw to it based on the nature of the work that we didn't have much time for downtime anyway. Is it for everybody? Hell no but as for me it suits me fine and I will jealously guarding the status and fight against anyone wishing to alter it
Gig work is an excuse for companies not to pay full benefits. Gig work would be a LOT better if we had socialized health care. And if anyone jumps on that S-word, then pay your monthly premium and incredible deductible when you have all those other expenses at once! Bye.
10:00 for California - it would be great to mention more details. Like, there's a real additional tax per each employee, and on salary basis. And there's the basic requirement for any employee to be covered by insurances, even if workers are contractors hired by external (out of state) company. Afaik that's the law. So how much do companies pay extra per person - depends on the company size, there's the lower limit (like, 50 people), but still - the number is some %, maybe tenths.
The real issue with countries like France is that they want to maintain the system they have while not permitting free labor movement that would enable it. Every country with a stagnant or declining population can solve the problem of social services very easily: Relax immigration requirements. While progress needs to be made overall on moving towards stable state economies, the global population is still growing and will for several more decades. We need to get over our fears of immigration and let people go where there is opportunity. It's win-win.
Any kind of work and income in general (like dividends) should be paid by employer with already deducted taxes, like health insurance, social etc. This would leave no freedom for some people to not pay insurance and undercut those who do, forcing everyone to do uninsured gigs. Here in europe our employer pays everything and employee gets the actual net salary, and he does not have to pay anything else. We still have to solve gig workers and other types of income, like dividends, but this system is working much better than US.
Thanks for this video! I’m working on a startup concept and don’t want to contribute to the “on-demand, gig work” model - but I want to increase access to services for convenience. I’m a health care provider who straddles the fence of gig model/ independent contract work… these apps don’t give you anything in return for overusing your car! I hope I can disrupt my industry and still make it fair for the people I hire😊
I hear you, finding that sweet spot between convenience and fair treatment can be a real challenge. Please keep disrupting the industry with the values that matter to you, I’m sure it will be worth it at the end. Best of luck throughout this process, and thank you so much for watching our video. 😊✨ - Kate
I hope the best for you bro. I want to create a company myself. It's essentially impossible without knowing people or having starting money. I worked at a couple startups and all the people who created them were already really wealthy starting out.
I personally think that we need to redefine what work means, and even how we work! There's no longer the need to work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Some countries are starting to realize this, and introduced 4 days working weeks. I'd say that we will have to do away with the classic work schedule completely, and only work project based. Governments will also need to pass laws and make freelancing and gig work legal, and to make it easier to pay taxes for those kinds of workers!
At 9:45 but isn't earning your own money the whole point? Instead of relying on services, save up for your own retirement and stuff. Total freedom over spending.
It's good to see that society is waking up. Never understood the gig economy's appeal. It undermines everything that generations of unions worked for and trade barriers are preventing from happening. But the question is rather can this economic sysem still function. Growth is what drives it. but the largest part of the grow rate is actually additional consumption by the increasing consumer base, i.e. more people. But globally we might still be growing, the whole trend is slowing down massively and has already reversed n developed countries. It's not just die pensions it's also the capital markets. Only a small percentage of growth actually stems from innovation. And once we get fewer people the necessary infrastructure will have to shrink with it, which is another hit to the economic investment side. I could go on but the basic message is that the last 70 years were a historical anomaly, fueled by unprecedented technological advances, cheap energy as never before and a demographic rent coming from post war baby booms in the industrialized nations.
i was about to skip but that sponsor is by far the most useful product I've ever seen advertise in a min, when will businesses go back to providing real solutions for existing problems?
In Portugal is also mandatory. Just for social security the employee pays 11% from their pay, but the employer pays 23.75% over the wage they pay. But when you retire our social security pays around 80% of the average wage you had in the last 10 years of work before you retired. No need for a 401K here. But yeah. These things are paid! But to be honest, if this wasn't like this, no one would save for retirement!
@@slidebeanyes being standard, not really on the part it works. The issue is the debt is growing rapidly, and we sold our public properties and companies over the private after the 2008. So now we don't have a way to balance these expenses from old people with tax revenue and public company revenue and maintaining subsidies for getting children born, unemployed subsides and so on. Join that to the growing number of elderly people reforming and the non-existence of newborn children, and you basically need to import people to cover the deficit, or you're done and the system collapse. Left the country because they are not searching for the solutions for this issue, and just letting it slide. And without any policy or care on the balancing sheets of the Portuguese economy, how am I going to save money on my day by day jobs to get my own retirement plan? Let alone have a retirement plan at all from all the money i saved throughout decades of hard work. Rather just leave to a healthier country with more new people than old people so i can get my retirement reform and move back there again. It's not even about not enjoying my country, it's more about not becoming a slave on the 21st century.
we are keeping the country alive with tourism and thats unsusntainable in my opinion because tourism mostly create bad paying jobs, from what i know our ss has only money until 2050,even with the ´new´revenue from migrants ss is still running on deficit, a lot of our population would be even more poorer if wasnt for ss,the parallel economy is comnon (not saying is bad),our elders are living longer although with poor end of life quality, if it wasnt our high home ownership (73%) i think a lot of retiree life would be even worst. In the last decades their eroded the pillars of our society, education and healthcare, their created a housing crisis by selling tax benefits and passports, in the last 2-3 year the brazilian population more than double in my city making rental prices go up by a lot, i dont blame them because we are a country of emigrants,i blame the goverment The goverment put our country for sale, although in economic terms is working, our population will suffer in the coming decades. i might be wrong idk
@@weird-guy you are not, that's a fair assessment of what happens in our economy tbh I wish more people were aware like you are instead of fking arround
Owning a home today isn't as financially freeing as it was for boomers... the other side of the coin of housing prices being so high is that property tax goes up with the assessed value of the house. If your house is valued at $500k and you're paying 1.5% tax, that means even if you have paid off your mortgage completely, you're still paying the government $625 / month. The more home prices go up the more taxes go up, and on top of the tax assessed value increasing, the government also keeps raising the rate, so that 1.5% could turn into 2%. Ultimately, unless we massively cut government spending, you won't even be able to get out of paying substantial rent even if you own your home outright.
I lived in Manhattan many years ago. I left because the costs skyrocketed while the quality of life dropped. By leaving I lived much more inexpensively but I had a long daily commute. That's a financial reality choice many people don't want to make. They don't want a house in the middle of nowhere, they don't want to live where there isn't a Starbucks a block away. So they live where costs are high and complain about the high costs.
Hey, thanks for sharing your personal experience! It's understandable that rising costs and a decrease in the quality of life prompted you to leave Manhattan. Sometimes, making a financial reality choice means finding a more affordable place to live, even if it comes with a longer commute. Thanks for adding your perspective to the discussion! 😉
I agree magsteel. I'm in my 50s. To buy a house I moved back home with my mum in my 20s to avoid paying private rent, AND I did two jobs. Doing those two things I was able to pay off debts then save for a flat. I also stretched myself a bit to buy a 2bed flat (outside of London where I grew up - London's waaay too expensive), so that I could get a lodger the whole time, and I kept doing professional courses so my salary would go up and up. You can't be static in these things and hope that good things and fairness just falls into your lap. Look closely and you'll see that life for MOST PEOPLE has never been like that.
@@saliferousstudios Sure. As people move into a low-cost area the price goes up. So you have to move further out or buy less. When I first came out to where I live now I thought it was 30 minutes past nowhere and that I would never live there, it was mostly farms. If I had bought back then it would have been a lot cheaper then when I ended up there 15 years later. It's even more expensive now so I'd have to go even further out to find something lower cost. My average commute for years was 90 minutes, highest was 2.5 hours. You do what you have to. Fortunately now with remote work it's 0.
I have a friend that does "hustle work" and gets by. That's it. Gets by. Not a single thought about 30 years from now when time to retire. These people will end up under a bridge!
I'd rather have one job as a Gen-Z but the problem is that in Canada, wages are not great. Is it better than India, YES but it isn't great. Started Gigworking as a freelance marketing manager and got additional income that wasn't possible with my full-time job as a marketing manager.
You're doing gig the "correct" way, or by design. Your main job ensures all your basic expenses and this gig is bringing in extra. But there are far more people whining about this and that because the gig is their only source of income. Uber Lyft etc are designed to be part time jobs but many ppl use it as a full time job. So despite the sympathy, from a logical point of view they get what they deserved.
Zimbabwe: Buying land costs you $25-40k for a decent sized piece of land. Building a house costs you $15-20k for a 3 bedroomed house. Monthly expenses are about $500 if toure retired.
I think it is already too late. Sorry. The reality for gig workers actually sucks--but it has been going on for a few decades now and is just growing. I own a business with primarily W2 workers, but am seeing so much pushback from clients on rates and simultaneously seeing wild increases in salaries that it will soon be unsustainable. If you look back in history, retiring is really a new thing--and definitely not a human right. I feel like Americans just started thinking of retirement as a right.
I worked as a freelancer (Gig worker) years ago, back then you needed 5 years of accounts to show that you earnt a regular income from freelancing and even then it was difficult in order to be considered for a mortgage. Fortunately my wife worked full time and her wage was enough for us to get a mortgage. Ironically I was actually earning more, but it wasn't considered stable.
As a Graphic Designer in Afrika (and a tough country like Zimbabwe)…that hates spec-work, thank you for touching on this topic. It’s a real struggle to fight spec-work.
@@fasttraqtv As an Afrikan l Reserve the right to spell it how l desire. I will respect your right to spell it with a “c”. But where I’m from my language would have it spelt with a “k”.
Hey, thanks for sharing your perspective! We can imagine it must be challenging to deal with spec-work as a graphic designer, especially in a country like Zimbabwe. Keep pushing for the value of your skills and expertise. You're not alone in this struggle! 💪 - Kate
@@BatsiraiMusukaYeah, that's not how spelling works! 😂😂 I can't suddenly start writing 'Ingland' bc I was born and brought up here! What kind of logic is that?! 🤦🏾♀️😆😆😆
@@slidebean It is very challenging…but it’s the love for the craft, delivering to the best of one’s ability and seeing the clients’ reaction that makes it all worthwhile. Thank you for the consistently engaging content by the way. 🙌🏾👌🏾
I have a problem with slidebean being like "oooh its so expensive having people on payroll" NO ITS NOT you make money off your employees work (exploiting their labor) and if youre not your business sucks and thats all on you
An enterprise that need to enslave their worker, pay them poorly etc... just to exist and make profit ... SHOULD NOT EXIST. Because it mean you created a sweat shop producing suffering to make money.
Exploiting is not the right term. Benefitting from would be more correct. Unfortunately in some industries, companies would be not be able to be competitive were it not for gig work. Maybe the argument is that entire industries should not exist. Idk 🤷🏼♂️
19:50 It does *not* cost $14k per year to raise a kid. That figure from "WaPo" is actually sourced from a USDA report where they include expenses like new housing and a new car and daycare in the "cost of raising a kid." Ridiculous assumptions to make.
I'll take Uber over cabs any day. Growing up taking cabs in Toronto was terrible; they would often do downright illegal things such as not turning off their meters an dictating the price you need to pay (which was always egregiously overpriced) and deny you service if you didn't go along with it or stealing your debit an credit info when using a POS system if you didn't pay cash. I remember a few years back a couple girls were trying to get away from a random shooting outside of a nightclub. The cab wouldn't take them because they couldn't pay the crazy rate he was asking and they were both shot and killed...
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Population growth is linked to democracy...
Its a popularity contest who gets the most votes.
For so many years we didnt have a large scale destruction. We only created more and more.
Things start to rot when theres no destruction,
It’s taken some effort to accept that as a later Gen X, we’ve become the “invisible” generation between the giants that get all the attention. The thing is that we’re taking over the leadership & top positions that can make the Millennial, Z & Alpha lives better. Gen X (especially latter) actually have more in common with millennials than Boomers & are already demonstrating the challenges forthcoming. Befriend us too to improve your lives🙂
"Are we cheap?". "idk HERE'S a coupon code" "oon30%'
🤣
I have a question, I quit my job of 10 years at a call center to be a gig economy worker full time. At first I loved it made a ton of money in the summer and fall but ever since November it's been a disaster, my car broke down too and had to get a 2nd one. Did I make a mistake? Should I get a regular job again? Or keep grinding knowing spring and summer are just around the corner?
I am fully self employed these days, as an electrical worker. Prior to this I had worked part-time for one company and self-employed for the rest. I found that when I had multiple income sources, I got treated better by all of them, as I no longer had a boss who knowingly had control over my entire financial security.
You're a lineman?
I find that hard to believe,
Even the "digital nomads" of the west are facing competition from China and India.
Imagine being independent contractor for coding or software development.
And you're competing with millions of coders from china and india who also have access to be digital nomads in a country is less than a third when it comes to the cost of living and are willing towirk for less money remotely.
Its not realistic long term goal
Millennials aren’t to blame for the gig economy because all they did was adapt.
Massive, monopolizing companies started by removing full-time positions, pensions, benefits, vacation/sick pay, and began to only hire part-time and casual workers in order to save money.
These companies could then drive down the prices charged for their goods, which were then bought by people who wanted/needed to save money, which then reinforced their behaviour. A good deal is a good deal.
So, to combat this, people started to work multiple part-time/casual jobs which then turned into the gig economy.
Plus, small business owners, in order to carve out a living while competing with giants, had to keep costs low so they had to hire gig workers as well.
It’s a vicious loop, but it did have a starting point.
Even when Gigworkers were not independent then I would still prefer a Grabcar over a normal Taxi just because I would know the fare in advance. I always fear being scammed in metered Taxis...
That’s true in many countries, I agree.
caya
So because everything is taxed to the teets, we shifted most costs from employer to employee.
How wonderful.
Here in Germany, Uber drivers are required to be registered and paid similarly to taxi drivers. So the fares are almost the same. But like you, I prefer knowing the fare ahead of time which is why I book through rideshare apps.
As a farang in Thailand, the only honest taxi driver I met was a Tourist Police officer doing, ironically enough, a side-gig as a taxi driver. Really nice guy. But besides him, the only way to not get ripped off in Thailand is Grab.
@@jwg9338Even in the US they're awful and try to screw people up. I shouldn't generalize but it's not worth the risk
It's no different than the pre-gig days when companies hired a bunch of part-time people instead of full-time to avoid paying benefits greed is going to screw humanity over eventually to where we can't adapt to survive. I hope I'm wrong
If these gig companies aren't profitable, then they should go bankrupt. Invisible hand of the free market, am I right?
gig companies are profitable. People working for them are screwed.
Colombian narco mafia is profitable, but those villagers who are working on the fields are not well paid 🤷
Too bad they'll just bribe the government to bail them out.
Problem is that lots of these 'tech' companies get cash infusions by VC firms trying to get in on the next big thing. Allows these companies to become zombie companies for a long while.
@@tomasxsd they are paid more than they would be if they growed legitimate crops and selled those. It's all comparative. The drug market is actually a really good example of the innate power of capitalism.
Even with all the hard work in trying to fight drugs on both the supply and demand side, the market still wins. The same sadly goes for the even more sinister human trafficking market. Capitalism is almost like a force of nature.
@@dekippiesipThis is so incorrect that I don’t feel the need to correct you, but I will for any econ 101 students who see this.
Nothing about that says that capitalism is natural. The demand for drugs is based off of cartels, which have a stranglehold on the market through violence, pushing a chemically addictive substance into the market.
Consumers aren’t making a choice in that situation
Honestly can't imaging trying to pass myself off as a business person, and then also having the AUDACITY to whine about the expense of having employees. If you can't afford employees, then you have no right to be in business.
You are aware employees cost money right? If you want to hire good talent and retain it you pay more money for it, the cost is then passed on to the consumer who then whines they have to pay more money for something because the business decided to pay its employees a fair wage. Once you can solve this ancient problem, then you sir will be a very wealthy man.
You're right, employers can't be whining about employee pay. That's why I call gig work slavery. They manage to get people to work almost for free. Slave owners probably spent more keeping their slaves than Uber does keeping drivers if adjusted for inflation
But also having employees actually is more profitable. GIG companies have consistently failed to be profitable and have relied on running at a loss and being propped up by constant investment. Uber never has made a profit ever. What it does do though is give capitalists a greater sense of power.
But it constant loss making means it's a threat to the economy where productivity will actually start going down. A good example of this happening is in the UK where GIG work was allowed to go unchecked and now their productivity is significantly behind that of other European nations. Also unlike what propaganda often says unions usually increase productivity and usually in the long term profits too. But they do mean the capitalists have to share power and they don't like that.
@@MrMarinus18No employees are more expensive. Companies like Uber are unprofitable not because gig work is more expensive than W2, it’s because they spend an insane amount of money on growing revenue and on R&D for their autonomous vehicles. Tech companies don’t operate like typical businesses. They don’t care about profits early on, they only care about revenue growth because they know that they believe that they can just raise capital from investors or debtors when they need more money. They simply play a different game.
@@buildwithKarl Uber though has very questionable use for society. It kind of feels like an entry into tech serfdom.
I love you guys. This is a real hard pill to swallow, but we need to take it and work on a solution. Thanks for summarising it so well!
Hey there! 👋Thanks for your comment and the love! We totally agree with you, sometimes the truth can be a tough pill to swallow, but it's important to face it head-on and work towards finding solutions. We're glad you found the video helpful in summarizing the issue. 😊
- Kate
The thing also is that almost all GIG companies are failures and usually the more a company uses GIG workers the worse they do. The GIG economy is a good example of why the idea that capitalists only care about profit is wrong. They are human and what they are after in the end is power and GIG workers are more vulnerable than full-time employees.
I'll just hire robots.
I moved abroad back in 2013. Struggled as an ESL teacher until opening my own business. Even during the hard times, my quality of life was still better than what I had back in Michigan.
I want to do that so bad.
SAME
In China???
Where did you move to?
@@mailmeabhilash he moved to penistown
In India, uber did not promote itself as a ride share. It was an AC taxi on demand.
That is what it is. And the rates now equal the taxi rates.
Taxi driving has always been gig work as well.
what is an AC taxi?
@@discocycleair conditioning
@@phoneywheeze oh yeah that's what it means here but all cars have air conditioning ? I've never heard of a car manufacturer selling a car without AC
this is what happens when financial literacy is suppressed and not taught at the elementary level.
Yeah, current educational model doesn't account for any independence enabling skills.
All they want is obedient workers.
Don't sweat it even congress, and the federal reserve is financially illiterate.
I've been preparing for a while. Paying down credit card debt and saving an emergency fund are my goals this year.
That's awesome to hear! Paying down credit card debt and building an emergency fund are crucial steps towards financial stability. Keep up the good work and stay focused on your goals. You've got this! 💪🏼💰
- Kate
It’s not cheap enough to justify the convenience to me anymore. I did fall into a trap of ordering my food for delivery all the time until I took a minute to figure out why a $45 sushi order from 1.5 miles away from my apartment cost $95. I’ve gone back to just driving there and back myself.
The developers, servers, and drivers aren't free, and eventually the vc money runs out and you are just receiving the true cost of delivery service with an app on top of it.
@@middleagebrotips3454 hence why I stopped using it. I realize it costs money. But it simply isn’t worth it at its actual cost.
@@middleagebrotips3454 totally. It’s why I don’t use DoorDash or any other delivery service anymore. The actual cost is way too high to be worth it.
That’s a positive thing. But you could even 1up it and walk those 1.5miles to the Sushi place to pick it up and get some free workout for free as well 😜
But small steps are better than none for sure 😊👍
@@ThizOne I would love to live in a walkable city or live near the walkable city center. Unfortunately I live sandwiched in a network of highways and the interstate. I would be flattened if I tried.
Even traditional banks do not approve loans for gig workers as they do not earn a valid income source from regular employment.
Yes they do.
Valid? If it’s green it’s valid.
I suppose it doesn't matter if no property is affordable anyway
lmfao what a garbage lie... nah... the banks be locking clowns in everyday
Do you want to do a 2008 crisis redux?
So if you cant afford to pay your employees correctly doesnt that mean you dont have enough money to start or maintain a business? Having "" the only way i can keep my business running is to barely pay my employees" is a horrible mindset to have as a business owner
Come on man its better to enlève to people with horrible working conditions and wages than lets them bé unemployed....
Yes, yes those business should not existe...
When I hear that I Can only expect child labor to make a Big comeback
Sounds like Fiverr and Upwork, lol. What you described is not even the worst type of client. The worst is "I do brag to my consumers about how much revenue the company is generating, and how I'm a millionaire CEO, how much we are a caring and inclusive business, and I actually do have the money to pay the workers fairly without this affecting us at all. But...... I'd still rather pay the workers 3$/hr in a predatory manner behind the scenes........because I can. If I could not pay them at all, it would be actually ideal." There are a TON of these individuals, and the customers that support these companies or entrepreneurs have no idea.
That is funny coming from someone who never paid anyone.
@@Gstunfisk been doing business for years at this point. Have had multiple chances to fck people over but didn’t. The issues don’t stem from paying people. They come from the need to make more drastically every year. Most companies start their business off under paying their employees.
@@Kanjejou the economy needs to shift. We cannot defend bad business practices and expect it not to corrupt us all. What I’m saying is in this situation you’re either for people being paid correctly. There is no in between here
As someone who did gig work for Skip The Dishes, the biggest complaint gig workers have is there are usually too many drivers on the road for the number of orders. This means drivers spend a lot of idle time between orders, and we don't get paid unless we have food in the car. Basically, they get half of our time for free. They could pay drivers for all the time they have to be on shift, but then they would simply offer fewer shifts, and so most drivers would not get enough hours. In order to keep the same staffing levels AND pay drivers for all their time on shift, it would mean charging the customers more for the service.
When I work for someone it is my time they are buying. If I live to 80 I only have 349,440 hours of life left. Subtract eating, sleeping and s**ting and you'll lose another couple of 1000 hours. Why should I use that time for someone else unless they are paying me to do it ...?!
And how did you not know that before you accepted the work?
I can tell you a biiig secret: Working at an assembly line where a conveyor belt moves 8 hours per shift you are payed for your entire time. Nobody stops you working there.
"In order to keep the same staffing levels AND pay drivers for all their time on shift"
Why would any company even consider doing that? I agree that drivers should be treated like proper employees that are paid for all of the time they're on shift but that would obviously mean decreasing the number of drivers. You admit yourself there are already too many people doing it, why would a company pay people they don't need to sit around doing nothing? Go on any job site and look at listings that have been up for longer than a day, most of them will have 20+ applicants and only one of them gets the job, the other 19+ people don't all get paid just because they applied so I don't understand why people that do these deliveries expect that to be the case for them.
It sounds like multiplexing a shift across multiple services may be the way to go? Skip+uber+lyft?
@@MezeiEugen When I first started working as a courier for SkipThe Dishes, the company was so new that they hadn't even put branding on their bags yet. There were barely enough drivers to go around most nights, and we almost never waited more than 30 seconds after completing one order and the next one would pop up on our screen. Fast forward almost seven years and they have an over abundance of drivers. The issue is that the company doesn't care if drivers get fed up and leave, because they are always recruiting new drivers to take thier place. In fact, I think they recuit drivers in the quantites that they do precisely so that they don't have to treat drivers well or fairly.
Raising a kid in the US costs $14,000.00 is an average. As a full-time professional, full-time single dad; it costs me $45K to 45K per year to raise two elementary school kids. With the inflation rate, everything seems to be increased by 10% for food, medical care, daycare, shelter, entrainment, transportation, school supplies, etc.
10%? Try 55% from January 2020 to January 2024; go look at the M2 USD Supply.
And this is why I'm never having kids 😂
👏🏼@@nottheone582
Way cheaper for me, you gotta figure it tf out
@@nottheone582 $14,000 a year for a child is ridiculously stupid.
I'm a stay at home dad and I guarantee that I don't spend half of that per year.
Stop buying name brand diapers, stop buying sugar/seed oil garbage formula, and stop buying expensive clothes. Kids clothes cost like $1.50/$3 at Walmart/Macys.
You don't mention how super rich barely pay into the pension system. Their is a cap that allows them to pay a minimum amount. That can be changed and massively improve the pension system.
It seems that millennials are their own customers in this gig economy. It’s like they created the demand for this. My parents don’t even know what Uber eats is and would never use it. Millennials created their own gig economy for things they seem to value.
You think that don't you? We didn't make this. You think a 20 year old had the billions to fund it? No rich boomers and maybe some gen x poured billions into this idea.
They hired young millennial to build it, and marketed it to millenials, but the people funding it were rich boomers.
Great insight
sort of. I certainly cook my own food as much as I can, but as a student in an extremely competitive grad program (70-80+ hour week on average with a 15 credit load) looking towards a similarly competitive work environment, the reasons I use ubereats, etc, when I do has a lot more to do with the fact that jobs are limited because management now runs everything (except their own compensation packages) very lean, i.e trying to get 3 people to do the job of 5. You can argue all day that it's my choice, but if my job/future is on the line every day, is it?
"I like my burgers cheap and hot." Me too. So I make them at home and pay $3 not $30 (17 burger, 10 delivery 5 tip) ... concept not details.
@@iamsuperflush ..and you cannot think ahead enough to bring a sandwich from home and save $20. I understand To me, you are rich. Or ery very financially stupid.
9:35 now I’ve thought on it, it makes perfect sense that employees are so expensive. You’re literally paying for their lives- literally everything in that life, from what they eat to what subscriptions they pay for.
That's the thing. That's is called the price of doing business and companies don't want to pay it because they believe they don't need to and are blinded by the bottom line. You're paying someone to do the work because you either don't have the knowledge or time to perform what needs to be done; doing so at the expense of them running their own business. If you don't pay someone their fair share who worked for you, then you are a thief who stole their time. Plain and simple.
Things are very different today than they were years ago. It's a snowball effect and it gets bigger and bigger as people point fingers rather than tackling a societal issue head on. Now the corporate solution is just to replace workers completely with AI, and of course that makes sense because automation has always been the Capitalist dream solution since its very inception.
People choose to work for companies because it's easier than running your own business or even being a gig worker as you are on your own. There's a sense of security there. Alas one day many companies are going to just collapse as more and more people wake up and strike or just walk away entirely; removing the very pillars of foundation that holds a company/corporation up. How long will that take and how many more generations will be throwin into the meat grinder is the real question. The bottom has been cracking for over a decade and the pandemic only accelerated the bottom fall out from beneath.
He mentioned 401k, sick days, PTO, but didn't even mention payroll taxes on the employer, all the social security and medicare ,"FICA", etc. the taxes the employee sees being taken out of their check before they get their money are only half, because the employer also pays that much. Plus the employer pays worker's comp, unemployement, disability tax, etc. That's why Uber prices will be 40% higher if the law passes and most Uber drivers were trying to get it voted down.
But yes, as you said, my employer is paying for my car payment, my car insurance, my mortgage, my student loan payment, my gas, my cell phone, my wifi, my electric bill, water, sewage, gas, my vacations to Hawaii and Mexico, they pay for me to go out to dinner, go to the movies, etc. So I get why people complain they're not paid enough, but honestly while you're not paid as much as someone you follow on instagram, they're probably paying you pretty well if you think about all of the things your employers allows you to do.
That shouldn't be the case. Labor is getting far too expensive, rather overpriced actually. Wages are a function of productivity; how much the worker spends on food or entertainment is irrelevant.
@@Airaku I agree. And if they can't make money doing this then their business model is flawed from the beginning.
@@Anti-Taxxer Productivity has risen steadily over the past 30 years. Why haven't wages then? Record profits in many sectors but the extra rewards only seem to filter down to the upper management level. I work longer hours than either my father or my grandfather for not much more in pay than they got. Why is that?
Small towns, small businesses worked just fine. Needing instant gratification will wreak you as it is the economic balance.
19:06 You got your data wrong. As a French, and having read the actual official report on the pension system, i can tell you that the system is neither broken nor in need of a reform. The reform was unjust and unecessary, and is basically a scheme to favor private pension funds.
The fact that there is less active ppl per retiree than before is more than compensated by the rise of economic output per active ppl.
UNRELATED - In my country if you make $300 - $600 per month you are considered middle class rich
How much is rent/house there?
I know it might be too much for some but, hear me out.
All the problems you listed (and many others) happen when the system is planned for everything to either be profitable or not existing.
don't forget a system based on eternal growth, while we should be striving to a circular economy instead
This part. The fact that they did a whole ass video and somehow totally sidestepped a critique of capitalism is laughable. People are in denial about the system they are participating in
@@nottheone582 please detail your proposed alternative. I'm geniunely interested to hear about a different system that has worked, or a new one that hasn't been tried.
"The system" you are describing is merely human nature. Profits are the incentive for people to do something. Without profits, there is no incentive. This is not a problem. The only ones who "suffer" under this system are the least productive people in society--the ones who are barely above parasites. Those who deserve no sympathy.
You should think twice before criticizing profits. The only reason you get to share your moronic opinions on the internet is because someone was able to make a profit by providing that ability to you.
@@nottheone582 Oh yeah. Perpetual bread lines is a better option.
I stopped using all gig services. I might have to use Uber in the future if a taxi is not available! I stopped Doordash and Ubereats. I also stopped using Amazon and all streaming apps. I am saving so much!
You’re also reducing the odds of some ole lady Pedestrian (like me) getting hit by most of the dash servicers’ out of order driving.
Well, this is one of those situations like climate change, where boycott has little to no impact since the prices of those companies are unfairly lower than the competitor's pricing, and I don't need to remind anyone that most of us live paycheck by paycheck.
You free from consumerism
I've only used Amazon, and only order from them when what I want isn't available locally.
Does nothing for gig workers.
The real problem is that we as humans have created an unrealistic unsustainable system. It's great for rapid growth and development but basically destroys itself when it caps out and it always does. The answer can't just be have more kids to feed in as cannon fodder to a terrible meat grinder system that works them like robots until the day they die. The answer is not going to be to replace everyone with AI either I mean who the hell is gonna buy the products and services produced by AI / Robots when they don't have jobs themselves? It's 100% designed to squeeze blood from a stone which is insanity. It requires a completely restructuring of how society functions quite frankly. The bad part is idk know how we get there without a total collapse of the current system which is not gonna be any fun for anyone alive or soon to be.
Exactly my dude! Future is super scary. ☹
"Squeezing blood from a stone"
Very interesting
I've listened to a lot of very smart people pontificate and no one seems to have any feasible ideas on how to solve some of the problems we're heading for in the future. The lack of retirement preparation in coming decades is going to be astronomically difficult to solve, but imagine that in a world where the US is spending all of its tax revenues just to pay interest on debt, that's a situation we're rapidly heading towards in our lifetime. Imagine these kinds of problems with global warming on top. Imagine all that with natural resource shortages.
You're right, the answer can't be an economic system based completely on growth because there are not enough resources (at the American rate of consumption anyway) to be sustainable. (It's already unsustainable ecologically and economically.) And yet - that's the system we have, and nobody seems to have a better one yet. Research the term 'de-growth' for a possible glide-path toward sustainability, but in the meantime - lower your expenses to a bare minimum and make good investments.
Well, when humans don't have jobs, themselves you ever thought about the possibility of universal basic income because it might happen.
Uber is charging 40% more here in Massachusetts and they are not passing it on to the drivers and no one is deleting the apps because the business is still there
Disgusting.
Gig work. In the 1800s Lever Brothers in UK offered a prize to design a house. They also just paid the winner but owned all the designs. Check out Port Sunlight village which uses all the designs.
I was thinking about similar topic just yesterday.
My wife is an artist. And now she's in the journey to better understand herself, whether to continue "self-employment" way and do her business, or to apply for some job in corporation like Supermicro or TikTok (which pay $100+k).
My point is - that's right, if you can afford the full-time employee to cover your back, and you need them for quite a while (years) - then yes, it makes sense to apply for FTE. But if that's just one-time (or few times) task, for example, to paint the wall, create design or something like that - grants are the way to go. Grants (city grants for some development) are the same as "gig" in that discussion.
What I think as the guiding principle for employers is the fact that any company has their corporate culture. And the idea is to develop that culture, spread it among workers, and benefit from it (because "culture" is the non-monetary way of compensation). For "contractors" the "cultural" aspect doesn't make sense. Sure, they have it, but from the bad perspective ("you use contractors - you can't or don't want to hire us - it's not fair, you cut the cost on stock options, insurances and other ways of compensation", something like that).
And the opposite is true, if you don't develop your corporate culture (hiring just contractors), you're hitting your leg by lowering the desirability aspect of your company to apply for.
My example here - opposite perception of Cisco as a company and LinkedIn (+Nvidia and some other desired companies). I think it's well-known that Cisco prefers (or preferred) to on-board contractors, so now it's less favorable for job seekers due to their strategy of getting the most from their workers and letting them go. Sure, employees get formal education and Cisco line in the resume, but broken expectations + less desirability for such workers (because they wasted time on short assignments) is still the thing for potential employers.
And let's be clear, if you want to develop as some specialist, you need more than 1.5 years on the same position. And that's not only for "formal education", but for mindset growth, which is the primary aspect. So if you can't settle down, you won't grow. If you're always in a hurry (which is true for low-level employees, like, jr-mid-tier, and some sr-tier), you won't be able to grow to staff and sr staff levels, you'll just have no opportunity for that.
And that aspect harms companies as well, you always need to change the blood, to grow your staff and hire new people, rotate the crew. If that doesn't happen, people get comfortable, and stop growing, stop making impact, and eventually just corrupt the company.
Massive layoffs are forecast on the horizon in US. It is almost u have 3 choices. Work for yourself, work for yourself, or use yourself to work 😁
Imagine calling the decision to get paid 100k salary a "journey to better understand yourself"
Must be nice to have no problems in your life whatsoever.
I cant comprehend anything u typed. But what is a "artist" isnt that a hobby not a job.
I don't know if it's just me but the video seems bright while the rest of the background has a dark shade. It's just awesome. Amazing video production and quality
Hey there! 👋Thanks for appreciating the effort that went into it! 🎥👍🏼❤
- Kate
I actually prefer gig work, particularly when it doesn’t involve driving a vehicle or riding a bicycle. There’s a common misconception that gig work only involves food delivery or passenger delivery.
Nowadays you got gigs that involve working at a restaurant for a few hours or working at a warehouse for a few hours. Many time the pay is $2-6 more than what you’d get if you took up a fast food job. Sure you don’t get many benefits if any at all but in my opinion the benefit of being able to work whenever you want is a good enough replacement for the other benefits, especially if you’re young and healthy still.
I sometimes work at Circle K’s for 4 hours when I need quick cash to pay off a bill. Earning my money without driving means no wear and tear on my car. I don’t have a car by the way. I use an electric scooter to get around and a replacement part on an electric scooter is cheaper.
I’m also someone who likes to drink alcohol. With gig work, I’m not required to be anywhere at any specific time. So I’m able to have recovery days where I’ve got a hangover without losing my job.
Another cool benefit about the gigs I do is that I can pretty much travel to any major city in my state and still find work. Im not restricted to any one location. And with the amount of different gig apps I use, there’s always work in different industries, whether that be cooking, packaging, scanning tickets at an event, cleaning up an office, merchandising, etc.
The gig economy rabbit hole goes further than Food delivery, Uber, and Lyft. Hell I just discovered an app that pays its contractors to wash peoples laundry.
Nice! I use WorkWhile and Wonolo for gig shift work. Can you recommend any others?
You know I work a gig job and I have been saving for two months to be able to pay for slidebean while also coding my prototype from figma to NextJS and MongoDB. So, this is an interesting video for people like me. I’m in the UK. So, these videos are all the start up vibe I get.
Hey, thanks for sharing your experience! Saving up for Slidebean can be a smart move, and I'm glad this video resonates with you as someone in the startup scene. Keep up the hard work! 🚀💪
- Kate
You are in college?
The series I didn't know I needed. Well done! Another hit.
🙌
- Caya
As someone who's lived in two different countries since early 2021. Being a "digital nomad" it can start sucking really really really fast. And it's very hard to get out of once you've committed the resources to the move.
That first sentence served no purpose other than your desire to tell people that you lived in two different countries at every opportunity.
"As someone who travels a lot of lives in multiple countries because I'm so awesome, that breakfast was delicious."
@@B3Band how would I know how much being a digital nomad can absolutely suck unless I've done it...? Just saying "being a digital nomad can suck" gives no context that I've experienced it. And I'd have someone else commenting. Saying I'm stupid because I've probably never left my hometown. So...
@@B3Band I never stated I was "awesome" nor did I state anything about consuming food.
Please share more about this. It seems like such a lifestyle to envy
@@B3Band I believe your projecting. Maybe it's something you really want to do yourself. Cause nothing she said made me think "oh wow she traveled before and she's better than me!". It's literally just her bringing context to her statement.
Why would anyone be a gig worker when there is such a huge demand for skilled trades. They will train you and pay you at the same time. You can't find a plumber anywhere.
my brother who is an electrician constantly complains that he can't find new employees but refuses to pay them more than minimum wage. That's why no one is going into trades.
Your business should be properly budgeted to include compensating employees fairly. If you can't do that, then your model is broken.
I mean, if payroll difference was such an issue, everyone would only be hiring contractors.
THATS THEIR END GOAL
This is great information, very accurate. I work in the Auto Hail Damage repair business. It’s dominated by independent contractors, because it’s near impossible to hire full time staff in businesses that depend on the weather.
Poor individual choices and voting for self serving greedy policies has brought us to this point.
People are easily swayed with cheap crap and short term benefits. Our generation seems to be just not wired to think on the long run.
except... you should know that corporations have a lot of political power due to lobbying in the US, so you can't easily just blame the individuals here
A friend of mine tried DD, she said she constantly waited for orders and having to drive over to next city or county to pickup any activity. Total waste of time it was for her.
Here, in Indonesia, people are going back to using taxi instead of online ride. Because, apparently people realize that taxi company are quite efficient in the first place, and the price is pretty fair for everyone, the customers, the company and the driver.
I don't think so
Rather traditional taxis started to digitalize
Indonesia is in our list of destinations for so many reasons. This is another story to add to our list!
@@slidebean cool! I recommend you to visit Madura if you have a good apetite of eating cow's gut
I hate Uber actually you don’t know if the type of car picking you up has a comfortable seat or not.
I don’t think gig workers are the problem. I think it’s the fact that we switched from defined benefit to defined contribution plans. Defined contribution plans are great if people contribute to them. But so many people don’t save any money. It’s the mindset of people today. Living paycheck to paycheck. Credit card debt etc.
I think the effects of the GFC on millennials is vastly underestimated. It created a corporate culture where it was seen that companies needed our money more than we do to maintain employment. Governments use the balance of payments to prop up corporations at the expense of tax payers.
Western society is living artificially cheap by pushing us down the societal hierarchy. You are just as talented, more educated and hard working and higher performing than your parents were. Nevertheless you are working class despite your high-tech job and avocado toast lunch. We need to have the playing field levelled and we need to stop pricing our lives around people who established their lives in a long gone era.
On the contrary, western society has become unnecessarily expensive due to misguided attempts to "level the playing field." You are entitled to nothing. Just because your parents had it, doesn't mean you must have it too.
Something that was missed, is how so many of the younger working generations USE gig such as Skip, Uber (and Eats), Door Dash etc. The prices are often 20% more than you would pay in store, followed by if they don't tip at least another 20% they won't get their pizza delivered. Yet they pony up rather than learn to cook or simply just order from the restaurant and go get it themselves. It's not just those working, but those who spend so thoughtlessly who won't have retirement funds.
American healthcare is expensive essentially 99% because of payors. It's not insurance, it's coverage. Insurance is for rare/unexpected/catastrophic events. Coverage is for common/expected events. The amount of cost due to people not getting regular medical care and then problems spiraling is negligible. The real problem is that, while the payors are technically "non profit", they are actually for-profit, and that's effectively 100% of the difference between here and sane countries.
Every one of the videos I've seen from Slidebean is so well done and feels like required education to be an informed citizen. Great job guys!
working in tech remotely can be a huge pain because i in canada, always have my job threatened by people across the world who have a lower cost of living. At the last place I worked I was a full time salaried worker in canada, and the company decided to go with mass layoffs so they could outsource out jobs to mexico for a quarter the price. How can i compete with that?
When Americans etc decided they cant be F'd going into the office - this was always going to happen, employers dont need you anymore if a remote job can be done 10 miles away it can be done 1000 miles away
I've been self-employed for decades and have no desire to work W2. I know I'm not alone.
Depriving others of that opportunity to meet someone else's desire really isn't helpful.
France didin't, "try to raise the retirement age", they did raise the retirement age.
I’m still giving protesters the chance of succeeding 😇
- Caya
Gig workers do not "work" for the tech companies. They work for themselves; the tech companies just hire their services on a temporary basis the same way you'd hire a plumber or a landscaper. It's an important distinction.
For Uber case - I think of not breaking any NDA, so... Our company subsidizes usage of ride sharing by granting the discounts or providing free rides in some conditions. Yes, not Uber, other services. And in this system - I think that's a win-win situation. I don't mind of the ride price + I almost always leave tips, unless the driver and their car aren't worth it, but still I don't complain much, because everybody should have a chance to become better. One exception is if the car was unsafe to drive/ride.
The tip doesn't always get to the driver except you hand them cash.
Gig economies are all service based (like financial services), there's nothing to do with actual production. The bubble is gonna burst.
“Some people worry. Others prepare.” - Robert Kiyosaki
'Some people worry, others prepare... Damn near most get crushed.'
After reading his "rich dad" book, I would take the advice of that charlatan with a pinch of salt.
In my country, they made gig work from remote countries illegal. You NEED to have a local branch and hire them there. If you try and make a personal firm and give services outside, the taxes will kill you and most of the time people don't pay you because they bank on the idea that you can't fly over to sue them and neither are there any government assistance for the matter specifically to allow it. Result: We don't have such things. The only problem is tourism towns being unlivable because prices are adjusted to foreign money and a lot of apartments have turned into hotels.
The problem with the pension system... at least the US version (Social Security) is that we allowed the government to borrow against it. Basic economics says that if you leave your money in a compounding interest account and don't take any out until it's actually required, it will be there. But if you start borrowing against it and then have to pay it back in a hurry, you're gonna be screwed.
U.S. health care broken. U.S. wealth inequality at all time extreme levels. More than just retirement ruined.
How ironic, that in Ukraine you can retire early and have a decent life -only if you are a GIG contractor that works for US, or corrupt politician.
Same in most Eastern European countries TBH
Gen X here. When I was younger, most people my age had multiple jobs with no benefits. Sorry, it's only gotten worse. I could see it going downhill then; NAFTA, IT jobs going overseas, customer service centers going outside the U.S., manufacturing jobs going to China.
Once you figure out that voting doesn't work, you can focus your energy on other, more impactful, things. I'm not suggesting losing hope, just acceptance that it's almost certain things will not get better:
- you won't be richer
- you won't be freer
through politics (unless your income is closely tied to government, like anyone who lives in Northern Virginia/Maryland).
You can try to get rich in any of the multiple ways. You might succeed. And, yes, RICH is what you will need to be if you want to retire with basic comforts - health insurance, pharmaceuticals, human grade food (instead of pet food), a 70 degree thermostat setting, WiFi, cell phone, car, shelter in a low crime area, etc.
But the odds are severely stacked against you. So find some _meaning_ and _purpose_ in your life that you can carry until the end, if things don't pan out. Because, let's face it, you can't control the forces against you, so you might as well control what little you can. Ultimately, it may only be the daydreams in your head. "Dreamin' is free" (Blondie)
ahh. . . gig works, a works where you race to the bottom.
👆🏼
the u.s. economy in a nutshell
The solution is down with governments. Live and let live and don't interfere with what two parties agree among themselves
I competely understand and respect your perspective as both a business owner and self employed person. I'll say I'm a many years self-employed boomer with millenial kids. I've had employees, paid their social security, worker's comp, unemployement and PTO/benefits with very litle understanding from the employee of all that requires. They call out sick, quit , have job issues or just don't show up. I gave up and just do all the work myself. I'm a lawyer. When I was an employee, I got 3 weeks vacation a year and was expeceted, and did work 9 to 5 Monday to Friday every day. I don't see my own millenial kids willing to do that and frankly I can't blame them for not wanting to be wage slaves. I'm an immigration lawyer. Many of my cliens are "gig" workers. They want to spend several months a year in their country. You can't really be a regular employee in the US and expect to take off for months on end and keep your job, so that works for them. Even if you're self employed, you're supposed to pay your social secuity taxes so you'll have a retirement benefit when the day comes. I don't think a lot of people get that. They're suddenly old and have noting. Please be smart people!
Very well said!
Legend has it, this topic is something for another video and he won’t mention other videos of his channel anymore
People will need to accept that, while there will always be time in the future, unexplored tech and lands to be found, the stuff that is developed and desirable will always be limited.
In essence, every road leads to Rome, but not every road is desirable. Some are too rough, some takes too long, some are infested with bandits, some are congested.
In other words, the stuff humans want is indeed zero sum. Someone always pay in the end. People reaping the benefit don't always have to pay because the payment for their benefit is either too far elsewhere, or some time in the future.
Long ago I was a hard working person. It was then, I learned that there will be people that can work earnestly for hours and hours and never be paid the money they need, while there will be people that are paid for almost doing nothing.
If was then, I have learned that, hard work without direction is futile. I also learned that, by occupying the cushy position, someone else is denied the seat. There will only be so many jobs where it provides a healthy work life balance, where it is not too difficult, yet not too easy to feel the effects of rotting away.
It is a game of musical chair that all participants in society play, and the losers fade into the void and have to make do with less and/or nothingness.
It’s amazing how the theory that are spending habits and drinking too much Starbucks is the reason why we can’t afford retirement.
How much coffee would you have to drink in order to not be able to retire and for that to make the difference?
Meanwhile it’s hard to pay rent and go through this cost-of-living crisis. It’s hard to just survive. So the idea that all I need to do to not be broke is the save money that I don’t got and pretend like the only reason why I don’t have money is because I’m just spending it on Starbucks is Ludacris. This is the out of touch victim blaming best way not to be broke it’s a half money type of advice that I expect for main stream media. From some baby boomer host who is trying to not piss off the sponsors.
How much money would you need to not only be able to afford to not work until the day you die and to be able to pay your every day bills , while also dealing with inflation and deal with healthcare cost the rising premiums and the fact that they sometimes they don’t cover illnesses that you can’t predict?
Then there’s emergency savings and the changing landscape of the job market because of AI.
There are ways of dealing with these concerns. We aren’t completely powerless. However the whole just save money you don’t have, your broke because you go to Starbucks, illogical stance doesn’t help. The truth is just getting clear on your concerns after defining your goals can help bring clarity to the issue which helps. Observation can lead to saving money and increased productivity. No matter what you do though, you can’t protect against every contingency. Acknowledging that things happen that are sometimes beyond your control and doesn’t mean you did wrong, can make it easier to see what you can control and improve on without being frantic about it.
It won’t take long until rich country start retirement plans that include sending people to live in “luxury “ resorts in Bangladesh
Millennials just learned to work with what was available. It's like if you're given a bunch of puzzle pieces that don't fit together perfectly, but you figure out a way to make a cool picture anyway. The good side is that the gig economy offers flexibility. It's like having a menu where you can pick what you want to do and when you want to do it. This flexibility can be great because you can fit work around your life instead of the other way around. It's like having the freedom to choose your own adventure.
NO NO NO. As a contractor I don't want my employer to provide my health insurance because it creates a maligned incentive system. The individual healthcare marketplace needs to be deregulated in a way that makes health insurance more affordable outside of an employer. It used to be more like that before the ACA2009 - you would at least be able to get a high deductible plan without breaking the bank, which is what I did when I worked as a tech contractor no benefits in 2009. They should also drop the self-employment tax which is an extra burden on 1099 vs W2 employees.
Or, and hear me out, we could just create a national health care system like virtually every other advanced economy, all of which have better care, lower costs and higher life expectencies. Rather than pretending deregulation is going to do anything other than reduce quality of care.
I moved to Portugal two years ago, a comparably poor country and holy shit the health care is awesome. Utterly unbelievable how it works here vs the USA. Why we accept such a terrible system is beyond me.
The LAST thing you want is a MORE deregulated market than we have. It will will allow insurers to charge WHATEVER THEY WANT. Which means the prices will soar. Other countries have highly regulated systems and serious limits on how much they can charge. That's the ONLY THING that keeps things remotely affordable.
@@RuthmarieHicks This is a myth. The reason that health insurance companies are so terrible is because the government allowed them to consolidate into a handful of companies. There is no competition. For example, Anthem and Wellpoint should have never been allowed to merge. There's also so incentive for hospitals to be transparent about costs because they can pass them on more easily. This is enabled by the insurance system we have in place.
I wouldn't want to get really sick in other countries in because most of those other places have long wait times to get treatment and if you got something like cancer they won't treat you in time.
@@ReflexVE What kind of treatment did you get while you were in Portugal?
@@WinstonCodesOn I was taking care of my aunt, who had Alzheimer's disease. I did the same for my father, but in the USA. My father's last year of life rang up over $160k in uncovered medical bills. My aunt spent her last two years of life in Portugal during which time she of course delt with the progression of Alzheimer's, had a heart attack, a tumor that resulted in major surgery and radiation, and numerous other doctor's visits and hospital stays.
Her care was top notch start to finish. She was sent to the best hospitals despite not even being a citizen and not having any private insurance. Her total cost for two years of care was about 20 euros.
It's crazy what we do in the USA.
Maybe a first step that is actually capapble of happing would be getting the supreme court to overturn the decision (I think it was Ford vs Dodge or something) that officially declares that the sole purpose of a company is to make money for its shareholders and nothing else.
The production quality on this video is the best you guys have done so far! Wonderful! And the quality of content is also going up (but that was already very high).
🙌🫶🏽
- Caya
Excellent video. Thank you guys! What you describe in Costa Rica is exactly what's happening in Portugal.
Yeah and you fuck up society for the locals, marvelous.
Gig work is the new slavery. It's manufacturing hardworking slaves and the government is failing the workers.
People already pay so much for Uber but Uber keeps up to 70% of the fares and they insult our intelligence by telling us that they don't make any profit.
Uber bears almost zero cost of the Uber ride and keeps most of the fares and Uber is not event cheap. Taxis used to cost the same but the taxi drivers bore 100% of the cost of the ride and kept all the fare after taxes.
Uber is creating a system that's close to a duopoly and controlling so much of the market and using its influence to manipulate prices and wages so that it alone benefits. The government needs to regulate these gig companies better.
Uber drivers are not competing with low wage workers abroad yet they get paid below minium wage after expenses while remote digital workers get paid better even though they compete with foreign low wage workers.
The government can and should step in to stop the exploitation and impoverishment of millions of its citizens. Gig work is not necessarily making things cheaper for the consumer but even if it does, it's wrong. You can't impoverish millions of workers in the name of lower prices, the economy needs workers to earn a decent wage to be able to purchase goods and services and keep the economy thriving.
What's happening is that we're making a few tech billionaires richer and making huge segments of the population artificially poorer and that's bad for the majority even in the short term
gig work has always existed. some of the oldest professions were mercenaries and prostitution
it's just that people are realizing its a cutthroat world and it's not possible for everyone to live a normal life
@@phoneywheeze No. Gig work started with Uber. I don't get what you're driving at. The country needs to correct a situation where millions of people work for multi billion dollar companies and can't pay rent. If it's happening to a tiny number of people, it's their problem. But a sizable portion of the country's population is engaged in this type of work it's a national problem
@@obiflex the thing is gig work is not employment. the people who actually work for the companies (for example software engineers) earn decent living.
gig workers offer their services to the platform. upwork/fiverr etc work as a marketplace where people find clients, not as a workplace.
one change I can see is companies like uber letting the driver set their own prices per hour
Stop adjusting social security for inflation, and allow the program to fizzle out eliminate the tax with it.
I'm a proud gig worker. I work for a locally owned and operated restaurant delivery service the platform operator is a good friend of mine are customers ostensibly are the restaurants we deliver for and our bosses are the end users of the service that we deliver to.
My wife has a full-time day job with insurance for us so I'm covered there. And it allows me the time and flexibility to work on a few other business projects that are slowly making us more and more money each and every day. I don't want to be classified as an employee I don't need to be classified as an employee I don't wish to be classified as an employee. The last time I had a full-time job as an employee even during my downtime I was not allowed to work on other business projects outside of my day job. And the company saw to it based on the nature of the work that we didn't have much time for downtime anyway. Is it for everybody? Hell no but as for me it suits me fine and I will jealously guarding the status and fight against anyone wishing to alter it
"My wife has a full-time day job with insurance for us so I'm covered there." convenient.
Gig work is an excuse for companies not to pay full benefits. Gig work would be a LOT better if we had socialized health care. And if anyone jumps on that S-word, then pay your monthly premium and incredible deductible when you have all those other expenses at once!
Bye.
10:00 for California - it would be great to mention more details. Like, there's a real additional tax per each employee, and on salary basis. And there's the basic requirement for any employee to be covered by insurances, even if workers are contractors hired by external (out of state) company. Afaik that's the law.
So how much do companies pay extra per person - depends on the company size, there's the lower limit (like, 50 people), but still - the number is some %, maybe tenths.
The real issue with countries like France is that they want to maintain the system they have while not permitting free labor movement that would enable it. Every country with a stagnant or declining population can solve the problem of social services very easily: Relax immigration requirements. While progress needs to be made overall on moving towards stable state economies, the global population is still growing and will for several more decades. We need to get over our fears of immigration and let people go where there is opportunity. It's win-win.
Any kind of work and income in general (like dividends) should be paid by employer with already deducted taxes, like health insurance, social etc. This would leave no freedom for some people to not pay insurance and undercut those who do, forcing everyone to do uninsured gigs.
Here in europe our employer pays everything and employee gets the actual net salary, and he does not have to pay anything else. We still have to solve gig workers and other types of income, like dividends, but this system is working much better than US.
Uber is less of a scam than cabs.
Before Uber taking a taxi was a risk. They'd take 20mins-30mins to come and they'd take the longest route.
Thanks for this video! I’m working on a startup concept and don’t want to contribute to the “on-demand, gig work” model - but I want to increase access to services for convenience. I’m a health care provider who straddles the fence of gig model/ independent contract work… these apps don’t give you anything in return for overusing your car! I hope I can disrupt my industry and still make it fair for the people I hire😊
I hear you, finding that sweet spot between convenience and fair treatment can be a real challenge. Please keep disrupting the industry with the values that matter to you, I’m sure it will be worth it at the end. Best of luck throughout this process, and thank you so much for watching our video. 😊✨
- Kate
I hope the best for you bro. I want to create a company myself. It's essentially impossible without knowing people or having starting money. I worked at a couple startups and all the people who created them were already really wealthy starting out.
I personally think that we need to redefine what work means, and even how we work! There's no longer the need to work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Some countries are starting to realize this, and introduced 4 days working weeks. I'd say that we will have to do away with the classic work schedule completely, and only work project based. Governments will also need to pass laws and make freelancing and gig work legal, and to make it easier to pay taxes for those kinds of workers!
To the Housing part, you should have mentioned dense diverse housing
At 9:45 but isn't earning your own money the whole point? Instead of relying on services, save up for your own retirement and stuff. Total freedom over spending.
It's good to see that society is waking up. Never understood the gig economy's appeal. It undermines everything that generations of unions worked for and trade barriers are preventing from happening. But the question is rather can this economic sysem still function. Growth is what drives it. but the largest part of the grow rate is actually additional consumption by the increasing consumer base, i.e. more people. But globally we might still be growing, the whole trend is slowing down massively and has already reversed n developed countries. It's not just die pensions it's also the capital markets. Only a small percentage of growth actually stems from innovation. And once we get fewer people the necessary infrastructure will have to shrink with it, which is another hit to the economic investment side.
I could go on but the basic message is that the last 70 years were a historical anomaly, fueled by unprecedented technological advances, cheap energy as never before and a demographic rent coming from post war baby booms in the industrialized nations.
i was about to skip but that sponsor is by far the most useful product I've ever seen advertise in a min, when will businesses go back to providing real solutions for existing problems?
In Portugal is also mandatory. Just for social security the employee pays 11% from their pay, but the employer pays 23.75% over the wage they pay. But when you retire our social security pays around 80% of the average wage you had in the last 10 years of work before you retired. No need for a 401K here. But yeah. These things are paid! But to be honest, if this wasn't like this, no one would save for retirement!
That’s a ‘standard’ pension system as far as I understand. But it works because the younger generations are covering the cost of pensioners.
-Caya
@@slidebeanyes being standard, not really on the part it works.
The issue is the debt is growing rapidly, and we sold our public properties and companies over the private after the 2008.
So now we don't have a way to balance these expenses from old people with tax revenue and public company revenue and maintaining subsidies for getting children born, unemployed subsides and so on.
Join that to the growing number of elderly people reforming and the non-existence of newborn children, and you basically need to import people to cover the deficit, or you're done and the system collapse.
Left the country because they are not searching for the solutions for this issue, and just letting it slide.
And without any policy or care on the balancing sheets of the Portuguese economy, how am I going to save money on my day by day jobs to get my own retirement plan?
Let alone have a retirement plan at all from all the money i saved throughout decades of hard work. Rather just leave to a healthier country with more new people than old people so i can get my retirement reform and move back there again. It's not even about not enjoying my country, it's more about not becoming a slave on the 21st century.
we are keeping the country alive with tourism and thats unsusntainable in my opinion because tourism mostly create bad paying jobs, from what i know our ss has only money until 2050,even with the ´new´revenue from migrants ss is still running on deficit, a lot of our population would be even more poorer if wasnt for ss,the parallel economy is comnon (not saying is bad),our elders are living longer although with poor end of life quality, if it wasnt our high home ownership (73%) i think a lot of retiree life would be even worst.
In the last decades their eroded the pillars of our society, education and healthcare, their created a housing crisis by selling tax benefits and passports, in the last 2-3 year the brazilian population more than double in my city making rental prices go up by a lot, i dont blame them because we are a country of emigrants,i blame the goverment
The goverment put our country for sale, although in economic terms is working, our population will suffer in the coming decades.
i might be wrong idk
@@weird-guy you are not, that's a fair assessment of what happens in our economy tbh I wish more people were aware like you are instead of fking arround
Owning a home today isn't as financially freeing as it was for boomers... the other side of the coin of housing prices being so high is that property tax goes up with the assessed value of the house. If your house is valued at $500k and you're paying 1.5% tax, that means even if you have paid off your mortgage completely, you're still paying the government $625 / month. The more home prices go up the more taxes go up, and on top of the tax assessed value increasing, the government also keeps raising the rate, so that 1.5% could turn into 2%. Ultimately, unless we massively cut government spending, you won't even be able to get out of paying substantial rent even if you own your home outright.
I lived in Manhattan many years ago. I left because the costs skyrocketed while the quality of life dropped. By leaving I lived much more inexpensively but I had a long daily commute. That's a financial reality choice many people don't want to make. They don't want a house in the middle of nowhere, they don't want to live where there isn't a Starbucks a block away. So they live where costs are high and complain about the high costs.
Hey, thanks for sharing your personal experience! It's understandable that rising costs and a decrease in the quality of life prompted you to leave Manhattan. Sometimes, making a financial reality choice means finding a more affordable place to live, even if it comes with a longer commute. Thanks for adding your perspective to the discussion! 😉
I agree magsteel. I'm in my 50s. To buy a house I moved back home with my mum in my 20s to avoid paying private rent, AND I did two jobs. Doing those two things I was able to pay off debts then save for a flat. I also stretched myself a bit to buy a 2bed flat (outside of London where I grew up - London's waaay too expensive), so that I could get a lodger the whole time, and I kept doing professional courses so my salary would go up and up. You can't be static in these things and hope that good things and fairness just falls into your lap. Look closely and you'll see that life for MOST PEOPLE has never been like that.
@@slidebeanthese are 100% chat-gpt responses right lol?
The problem is now even that choice you made, is impossible. Housing has nearly doubled in my "low cost" area.
@@saliferousstudios Sure. As people move into a low-cost area the price goes up. So you have to move further out or buy less. When I first came out to where I live now I thought it was 30 minutes past nowhere and that I would never live there, it was mostly farms. If I had bought back then it would have been a lot cheaper then when I ended up there 15 years later. It's even more expensive now so I'd have to go even further out to find something lower cost. My average commute for years was 90 minutes, highest was 2.5 hours. You do what you have to. Fortunately now with remote work it's 0.
I have a friend that does "hustle work" and gets by. That's it. Gets by. Not a single thought about 30 years from now when time to retire. These people will end up under a bridge!
I'd rather have one job as a Gen-Z but the problem is that in Canada, wages are not great. Is it better than India, YES but it isn't great. Started Gigworking as a freelance marketing manager and got additional income that wasn't possible with my full-time job as a marketing manager.
You're doing gig the "correct" way, or by design. Your main job ensures all your basic expenses and this gig is bringing in extra.
But there are far more people whining about this and that because the gig is their only source of income. Uber Lyft etc are designed to be part time jobs but many ppl use it as a full time job. So despite the sympathy, from a logical point of view they get what they deserved.
Retirement and health care in USA are sole responsibility of the individual.
4:18 what is the platform, software or website called?
maybe fiverr ?
Was wondering the same. I think it's DesignCrowd
Zimbabwe:
Buying land costs you $25-40k for a decent sized piece of land.
Building a house costs you $15-20k for a 3 bedroomed house.
Monthly expenses are about $500 if toure retired.
I think it is already too late. Sorry. The reality for gig workers actually sucks--but it has been going on for a few decades now and is just growing. I own a business with primarily W2 workers, but am seeing so much pushback from clients on rates and simultaneously seeing wild increases in salaries that it will soon be unsustainable. If you look back in history, retiring is really a new thing--and definitely not a human right. I feel like Americans just started thinking of retirement as a right.
I worked as a freelancer (Gig worker) years ago, back then you needed 5 years of accounts to show that you earnt a regular income from freelancing and even then it was difficult in order to be considered for a mortgage. Fortunately my wife worked full time and her wage was enough for us to get a mortgage. Ironically I was actually earning more, but it wasn't considered stable.
As a Graphic Designer in Afrika (and a tough country like Zimbabwe)…that hates spec-work, thank you for touching on this topic.
It’s a real struggle to fight spec-work.
That's not how we spell our continent
@@fasttraqtv As an Afrikan l Reserve the right to spell it how l desire. I will respect your right to spell it with a “c”. But where I’m from my language would have it spelt with a “k”.
Hey, thanks for sharing your perspective! We can imagine it must be challenging to deal with spec-work as a graphic designer, especially in a country like Zimbabwe. Keep pushing for the value of your skills and expertise. You're not alone in this struggle! 💪
- Kate
@@BatsiraiMusukaYeah, that's not how spelling works! 😂😂 I can't suddenly start writing 'Ingland' bc I was born and brought up here! What kind of logic is that?! 🤦🏾♀️😆😆😆
@@slidebean It is very challenging…but it’s the love for the craft, delivering to the best of one’s ability and seeing the clients’ reaction that makes it all worthwhile.
Thank you for the consistently engaging content by the way. 🙌🏾👌🏾
As capitalism expected, we don't want old people alive, we want poor people alive to create wealth for a certain small sect of old people to live.
I have a problem with slidebean being like "oooh its so expensive having people on payroll" NO ITS NOT you make money off your employees work (exploiting their labor) and if youre not your business sucks and thats all on you
An enterprise that need to enslave their worker, pay them poorly etc... just to exist and make profit ... SHOULD NOT EXIST.
Because it mean you created a sweat shop producing suffering to make money.
Exploiting is not the right term. Benefitting from would be more correct.
Unfortunately in some industries, companies would be not be able to be competitive were it not for gig work.
Maybe the argument is that entire industries should not exist. Idk 🤷🏼♂️
Username checks out 😂
19:50 It does *not* cost $14k per year to raise a kid. That figure from "WaPo" is actually sourced from a USDA report where they include expenses like new housing and a new car and daycare in the "cost of raising a kid." Ridiculous assumptions to make.
So how much *does* it cost to raise a kid?
I would love to watch a video on healthcare in the us
Noted ✌🏽
-Caya
I'll take Uber over cabs any day. Growing up taking cabs in Toronto was terrible; they would often do downright illegal things such as not turning off their meters an dictating the price you need to pay (which was always egregiously overpriced) and deny you service if you didn't go along with it or stealing your debit an credit info when using a POS system if you didn't pay cash. I remember a few years back a couple girls were trying to get away from a random shooting outside of a nightclub. The cab wouldn't take them because they couldn't pay the crazy rate he was asking and they were both shot and killed...