DOES CAWL KNOW THE SECRET OF THE BLOOD RAVENS? HAVE THEY DISCOVERED THE TRUTH?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Hi all Rho here! Today we discuss the Blood Ravens chapter. As we ask the question if they have discovered the truth of their past? And does Belisarius Cawl know the truth?
General Spoiler warning to begin as the events we are discussing today are from across the Warhammer 40,000 universe. So you have been warned!
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Inquisition: "Lord Guilliman, the Blood Ravens Chapter are heretics"
Guilliman: "Is because you suspect them to be Thousand Sons?"
Inquisition: "No. Their Chapter Master has taken an Eldar as his...*flips through books of heresy*...waifu"
Guilliman: "I see absolutely nothing wrong with this."
Replace the last line and continue:
Gorillaman: "You have done a fine job bringing this information to me. It is vital to the security of the Imperium that you report only to me with this information. We do not know who might be a spy for them."
Inquisition: "Yes Lord Guilleman, what would you have me do next."
Gorillaman: "Bring me all of the evidence that you have collected and about any other Aeldari agents that might be trying to... Insinuate themselves into our Imperium. Tell no one else of this crucial mission."
Inquisition: "Yes Lord Guilleman." Leaves
Yvrainne: Comes out from behind a curtain, "I thought that he was never going to leave."
Inquisitor: ok. Than. If we so like the Eldar species why we not cease the hostilities with Eldar craftworlds all at once? And concentrate more resources against Chaos, Orks and Tyranids.
Honestly sir I am tired of this hypocrisy.
Guilliman: now you starting to get it. Inquisitor. Me too. And it is a fine idea. Now go to the Aurelian sub-sector and just spectate what they doing. And report me if sector was invaded.
Inquisitor: yes sir.
If they are from Magnus, Cawl is probably waiting for them to have a confrontation with Magnus himself. If the Ravens stay loyal in the face of Magnus's temptation to join him then Cawl can prove to Guiliman that geneseed alone does not make you a traitor.
That makes a whole Lotta sense actually.
Probably part of his plan to see will they stay loyal to the emperor Empire or not, that would make a good dawn of War game.
Gk and black shields proved it already.
Lol Magnus, wrong primarch let me spread the word of Logar
Probably what he’s waiting for with the Sons of the Phoenix and any other “prototype” chapters of traitor lineage.
Legend says that, if you have the clearance, records of the Blood Ravens’ origins will show a big red boi rocking fabulous hair but very heretical shades.
Me: Yo Magus! How much them shades cost?
Magnus: A thousand son.
Magnus: What you know about Rolling down in the deep...
Jokes on you, their father is Lorgar
@@Liethen Not likely: ‘Like many Codex Chapters, the Blood Ravens do not venerate the Emperor as a God, but as the mightiest of men. As they do not know the identity of their Primarch, however, they give praise to the Emperor with a fervour greater than many other Chapters are noted to.’ - White Dwarf July 2019.
@@grimgoreironhide9985 that comment got me.
A thousand son… 😂
Magnus be rollin in them fat stacks, not dealin in no flesh change.
The Blood Ravens.... Space kleptomaniacs, If Cawl has found the truth I wouldn't put it past them to steal 'the truth' back !
I bet that the Blood Ravens are going to come after him for answers.
I would send the Wolves
Or have Trazyn steal it from them
If they were to descent from traitor geneseed I'm sided with a lot of people around here: It's an experiment on Cawl's side, waiting for them to face their gene brothers, specially their gene father, prove their loyalty to the chapter and the imperium and use them as show to Guilliman to either reinstate the traitor legions with Primaris battle brothers or to create chapters based on any or all of their geneseeds.
I love the idea of them being of Lorgar stock. My only reason is from the dialogue between Eliphas and Thule when Elilphas insisted on knowing their true past and calling him brother.
Lorgars word bearers are overly farmilar with all other space marines Amatnim calls a White Scars sergeant "brother" at one point.
All space marines are considered brothers to each other, as in "battle brothers"; even the choas marines are still brothers, just traitor brothers.
@@jimmysmith2249 between the 18 gene bloodlines, its more like cousins
Dont use that traitor geneseed. Wink wink. Ok Cawl? Dont use all this traitor geneseed I'm giving you. Ok? Wink wink.
Was building a blood ravens army when all this primaris stuff went down. Thank you for this. It’s time we saw this move forward. Knowledge is power
Guard it well.
This sounds like a great reboot for the Dawn of War series!! This would be also a great series of books too.
here's a question. what would guilimans response to learning this secret?
Dawn of War 4 in which the Blood Ravens face off against the Thousand Sons.
That is something that we need see in the new game.
They may have been formed of the remnants of the Legions of the two unknown primarchs
Is it just me or should'nt whoever owns the rights to DoW be releasing an updated version with access to that unification mod, while maybe sorting out the people responsible for the mod some of that sweet sweet cash they would be making....hand over fist.
For everyone talking about the Blood Ravens’s heritage as Thousands Sons successors, you seem to be forgetting about that whole Rubric of Ahriman thing. Turning to dust en-masse may cause some issues as far as existing in M42 is concerned. There’s also that whole Thousands Sons geneseed flaw that causes it’s successors to slowly turn into chaos spawn. If I had to speculate, I’d say the Blood Ravens could be a chimeric chapter from the 21st founding. Maybe Blood Angels spliced with Ultramarines or Dark Angels to try and fix the red thirst, and all they ended up with were slightly psykery generic spacemen.
This is what I was wondering about as well.
The Rubric only affects traitors.
It doesn't affect Loyalists.
If it did Janus of the Grey Knights wouldn't exist.
Janus was originally Revuel Arvida of the Thousand Sons from a member of its Corvidae chapter.
@@markrtoffeeman the rubric only turned non-psyckers and weaker ones to dust, powerful psykers like Janus did not, especially since he was already cured of the flesh change, I suspect the spell would hit the shard of Magnus and have all the effect of a wet fart
@@markrtoffeeman Yeah, but that was a VERY specific instance of an outright exception in the lore, plus the Rubric also exempts powerful psykers, of which Janus was one. Not all of the Blood Ravens are powerful psykers, and the Rubric has demonstrated it's ability to turn even Thousand Sons trapped in time anomalies into rubric marines thousands of years later.
Since He is old... He can know
Cawl: Sire, the traitor geneseed
BigRob: I forbid you to touch it
Cawl:. But, you want me to reinforce all loyalists
BigRob: Of course, that is your mandate
Cawl: But I can't look at traitor geneseed
BigRob: No, you may only study the original loyal geneseed, you have no need of the traitor stock
Cawl: Then I can't reinforce all loyal chapters
BigRob: Why
Cawl: Are you dense
BigRob: WHAT?
Cawl: Wut?
Sire, without all of the Gene Seed I can only reinforce half of the *mechanical cough* "Ultramarines" successor chapters
Rob: ok I am losing my braincells now. Get to the point
Cawl: we must use traitor geneseed to create Loyalist chapters. That thing is happened before. Blood Ravens, Death Eagles, Silver Skulls are from Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children and Iron Warriors gene stock respectively. And they prove their loyalty countless times.
Rob: ok fine do it. But one thing Cawl.
Cawl: what is it Lord-Commander?
Rob: Space Marines from traitor gene stock is prohibited to cross Rubicon and will be Firstborn only chapters.
Cawl: you do realize that we already have Sons of Phoenix Primaris chapter of Fulgrims gene stock?
Rob: Fine they will allow to cross the Rubicon but no Primaris reinforcements.
Cawl: ok.
I would love to see a new dawn of War game with The Blood Ravens finding out about their past.
ii just want a dow4 dow3 was not really good but at least each episode is different and i respect deeply the risk Relics takes when making a game.
@@jasoncarthes All they have to do is to put the old mechanics of the other dawn of War games into the new one redoing their mistakes.
@@jasoncarthes Or a dawn of War remake.
1 and 2 were great. Would love to see a new one that's not leaning into MOBA/mobile game feel.
@@jacobdoiron2851 When I think of it they should make a dawn of War remake.
I'd love to build a BloodRaven army. I really dig that not knowing. But, I'm a Dark Angel. Secrets are kinda my bag lol
Do a kill team with Diomedes and co. Fellow battle brother.
I'm trying to remember the actual rule set but you could still have a let's say support squad of blood ravens and you could field them with some head Canon like....while in the search for word of the fallen that same fallen has information on the Ravens past. So the chapter's have a working relationship to get the information they both seek. Just my opinion but something like that could work for my table I love fighting fluff armies it's great storytelling.
@@Dreadbringer He can't. Diomedes is pinned😆
We do know though. They’re Thousand Sons successors! Everyone in the Black Library writing team knows it and winks and nods. They’re directly nodding to it in Horus Heresy. But they’re dragging out the denial “oooh,Do wE ReALLy kNoW ??” Yes, we do, they’re sons of Magnus!
What about the fallen
Dark Angels: the what?
Guilliman: "This is an outrage! You knowingly infested our ranks with tainted geneseed from my fallen brothers!"
*Cawl points at the Silver Skulls*
Guilliman: "You know, on second thoughts maybe we should just forget about all this..."
Cawl; so you sanctioning the usage of traitor geneseed sir?
Guilliman: yes I do. I am not a hypocrite.
Sons of Pheonix*
@@inkvizitor669 Silver Skulls are a Chapter of Iron Warriors that Guilliman pardoned during the Horus Heresy, and took under his banner.
So for him to claim that heretic genes were tainted, while swelling his own ranks with loyalists traitors that remained active to the current day without falling proves his hypocrisy.
Sons of the Phienox don't have that connection, since they're a new Primaris only Chapter masked as Imperial Fists.
@@christopherjohansson9935 They are Emperor's Children
@@inkvizitor669 Right, but that doesn't have anything to do with Guilliman...
The point is Guilliman has traitor geneseed in his Ultramarines, and has for millennia. To say traitor's genes are prone to treasonous tendencies is illogical hypocrisy, and he knows it.
Brand new unproven (Suspected from Fulgrim's genestock) Primaris masked as Imperial Fist (Dorn) is a non factor here...
The Blood Ravens stole the secret from Cawl-which was then stolen by Trazyn the Infinite
What if the origin is more convoluted? A shard of Magnus was 'grafted' to Janus in 30K, and he was one of the founders of the Grey Knights, by adding the genetic material of the Emperor to the geneseed of the founders of Grey Knights. So maybe... they are descended from Janus/Magnus, and the addition of the Emps genetic material 'fixed' the mutation problem with Thousand Sons and also dodged the Rubric?
We know the Blood Ravens are gifted with Psykers, and have ties to the Grey Knights somehow. Maybe they are stable Thousand Sons by way of the 1st draft of the Grey Knights that didn't make the cut for the Grey Knights founding.
Btw kronus can be a big + for this theory, coz they don’t delete the memory of gk on Kronus ( perhaps) + cirus was in deathwatch, you can not go in deathwatch so easily. I guess some part of inquisition and cawl himself know about br primarch.
Not a bad theorey, but the Grey Knights have the notable trait of being a chapter of all psykers. The Blood Ravens are only noted as having an “unusually high” number of psykers.
@@laserbeastman7447 kxm. Blood angels xd. Just look on Mephiston and lib dreads
Well it is plausible, spoilers for those who aren't current on their Horus Heresy reading but Magnus was able to confront big E and was almost turned loyal again when Emps promised Magnus a new legion free of the flaw only at the small, small cost of the lives of every single one of the current TS legionaries. Maybe then Emps already had the groundwork in place for this legion and that gene seed was used to create the Blood Ravens instead.
@@danielmcdonald3296 I like this idea.
Personally I see the blood ravens as the chapter the Emperor promised magnus if he returned to the imperium and had them ready to go thinking there was no way he couldn't convince magnus to return
While the ASSUMPTION, is that the legion promised was the Grey Knights, your proposal could also be correct.
@@asaenvolk couldn’t be the grey knights because malcador set them up
@@raygunreagan2274 yes, and Malcador was the one to offer the new Legion to Magnus, and he did that after he started his work on the Grey Knights, so they could have been the offer, or not, they were the only "new Legion" we know from that time, so the assumption is good, but that doesn't mean it is correct. If the Blood Ravens were the actual "new Legion", that would be neat too.
That was the Grey Knights.
@@raygunreagan2274
After the Emperor approved the plans and gave him the material.
During the Heresy, the Emperor offered Magnus a new legion of warriors and acceptance into the imperium I'm exchange for his afflicted sons. The new space marines were supposedly in the works and a better fit for Magnus. While some say it was the Grey Knights it could have been something else, and they could have used that something to make the Blood Ravens.
Boreale: NOH!
No one says it was the grey knights. Only a few of them were of his blood line and they had their geneseed removed and replaced with that of the Emperors. He was talking about the Primaris. The Primaris was started by the Emperor. Guiliman discovered what cawl was working on and took over in the Emperors place.
@@gabrielm.942 I don’t get why people keep mentioning “Emperors geneseed” when referring to grey knights. He didn’t have any because he wasn’t a primarch and the form he’s typically depicted as is physic projection, not his actual form, of which is just a man. The Emperor had no geneseed of which to make a legion or Astartes.
@@tfan2222 he did. It doesn’t require a Primarchs DNA. As a geneseed isn’t the organs itself it’s and itself a “seed” that essentially alters the genetic code of an individual. It also is used to grow the Space Marine Organs. Fun fact the original prototype space marines were made in a similar way.
That's a good theory
The level of technological regression in the imperium is just nuts (I know it’s supposed to be). None of the gene seed is inherently corrupted, except maybe isolated incidents where specific samples are mutated. The traitor legions turned because of their primarchs, and/or chaos corruption to marines in their lifetimes. There are plenty of heroes who were loyalists from traitor legions. The imperium can invent a better gun without making mistakes developing AI (like Cawl has), and they can use gene seed from traitor legions without them being more trouble than they’re worth.
I hear you on this one brother, I think there is a two-sided fact that answers this subject even though it's always frustrating to hear and teased of mankind's pinnacle. Lore and real world aesthetics and business is what is keeping mankind in this perpetual death spiral. Lorewise I would have to start my own channel to go into great details necessary (heavily embellished with my own opinions of course) but a question I have for you is what IF, let's say a certain blue primarch found a fully functioning STC and say cawl could completely reverse it. Would we be reading and playing our favorite hobby or would it turn into something else? Imo you power up one faction like that it can be so lore breaking, fucking sweet as hell buuut still. Sorry for the ramble, just a simple opinion from a simple man.
Happy new years from my family to you all.
We do the same today. We blame guns for the actions of people.
@@sardonicspartan9343 no we blame the easy access to guns.
@@michaelclark7787 that’s a good point, regardless of practicality it’s important that you have some kind of balance when you’re telling a story. Tech-wise it was cool that the marines got moderately better gear and a big boost in numbers without the imperium becoming OP. I think a story about a new primaris chapter of, say, Iron Warriors genestock being told they’re imperial fists successors could be cool. Just a small step in a direction that makes sense and is less Grimderp.
That's the point PRIMARCHS turned them. Either primarchs have their aura that makes astartes of their geneseed loyal to them or its engraved in their geneseed, but still they were loyal to their primarch. So now imagine what would a legion from traitor geneseed react when they meet their primarch. They could swore allegiance to him. So that is also a reason why it can be a bad idea to create astartes like that.
Traitor primarchs can bring previously loyal Astartes to their cause.
I think trayzin is still fighting that custody battle against magnus isn't he?
Yeah the percentage of 40k fans who have played Dawn of war is ever shrinking. So the sooner the better with this revelation.
Yeah they should make a dawn of War remake.
@@vontheunknown7982 Absaloutely.
I still say thousand sons some lore might show that's not the case but there very high amount of librarians and even the thousand sons believe there the lost kin from the heresy because it's fact the Magnus sent his fleets away some might have rejoined Magnus but others most likely left the thousand sons to rejoin the imperiam
You're a bit outdated. The fleet's fate and Revuel Arvida's story have been known for a while. Look up Last Son of Prospero.
@@andrewsuryali8540yeah but did all the ships or just most of them
Knowledge is power, guard it well
Blood ravens would go easily with blood angels( in therms of Helping Dante ). Coz nature of the chapter is a bit light-hearted one. Hope we would see them in future books. They were the heroes of my childhood. Even with memes and Dow 3 calamity.
Wait you believe that the blood raven's from the Blood angels.
@@vontheunknown7982 nope. I mean they are on other side of imperium if I recon. But can be wrong. And yea they are from corvida house of ts. Xd
@@BloodyArchangelus Oh okay sorry for the mix-up what I thought you said.
@@BloodyArchangelus I mean, there's pretty much no evidence to suggest that the Blood Ravens are the Blood Angels successors other than their name. I don't think there's been even a single case of a Blood Raven ever succumbing to the Red Thirst or the Black Rage. And that's pretty much madatory for a chapter of Sanguinius's bloodline.
@@Matihood1 man pls. By wording go easily - I mean help Dante in his cause. Xd ok I would rewrite it.
DoW was my first introduction to 40K and it took a lot of deeper reading to understand the challenge of the Blood Ravens as non-Codex chapters. I still enjoy the stories told through the games and think a reunion between them and their Loyalist progenitor chapter would be an excellent development in this post-40K environment.
Instead of revealing the Primarch's identity, I (perhaps rarely) would like to have the knowledge of who exactly knows the truth. My theory is that at most 4 loyal Blood Ravens know the truth based on DoW2 dialogue and events and some sprinkling of logical deduction and assumption. My list is as follows:
-*1) Davian Thule:* Thule is the very Captain who read the records of the Chapter's origins on Kronus before destroying them.
-*2) Gabriel Angelos:* Not only is Gabriel the Chapter Master, but crucially Thule in his entrance mission as a Dreadnought has these two lines right ast the end: "Is that you, Gabriel? ... The secrets of Kronus shall not pass my lips." This implies he wanted to confide that knowledge to Gabriel.
-*3) Jonah Orion, the Chief Librarian:* Jonah is Gabriel's closest advisor and confidant, so it's almost certain he would've shared the information to Jonah at some point after DoW2 Retribution.
-*4) Scout Sergeant Cyrus:* In DoW2, immediately after it is revealed that Thule destroyed the records, Cyrus states "Those who wish to know who they truly are should be more careful with their wishes." Now, it's unlikely Cyrus knows the full truth and might simply be referencing to how information restricted by the Inquisition is not meant for wider audiences - after all, he did serve in the Deathwatch and thus likely saw instances of knowledge being learned and then leading to horrifying results. At most I estimate he knows that the Chapter has chimeric and/or potentially traitor gene seed, but it's possible he knows more than that.
One of the core reasons why the BR are so appealing is that mystery which leaves space for speculation, theories and narrative crafting, similar to the Lost Legions. At this point no "truth" from official sources about the 2nd and 11th Legions' fates would be satisfactory, and might in fact do more damage than good. And I suspect the true identity of the Blood Ravens' Primarch has the same situation/dilemma.
This is, of course, but an opinion of a Veteran Astartes player who donned the crimson armour of the Chapter just as the 5th edition dawned...
Brother Space Marine, I'm a newly recruit to our chapter. But I hear that books of Dawn of War are really bad for some various lore reasons. I wan tto explore Blood Ravens further, other than the games, where should I go?
I don't understand how GW can expect people to believe ANY Legion doesn't know its heritage anymore. It just doesn't make sense -- and honestly, it's getting a little old. I once went through an alphabetical list of chapters to count how many have an unknown primogenitor Legion, an unknown founding number, and "secretive and mysterious traditions" and I gave up before I even hit the letter B. Don't get me wrong -- I love mysteries, and I think it's absolutely necessary for an open-ended IP to maintain mysteries, but the mysteries have to be logical.
Blood ravens are not a legion, just usual
Chapter. Was before. Now they are a tyranid killers as ba. Expect them to shown in sm 2
@Space Vatnik whilst GW is lazy alot of the chapters are left blank for players to fill in the rest. They'll give them a war or two a bit of fluff and then leave them to the void, or for the players to use their imagination to fill out the rest or even better (looking at you minotaurs) set pieces to be used again down the line.
@@michaelclark7787 I'm still waiting for *any* Brotherhood of a Thousand fluff. GDubs has a ton of chapters out there to play with.
Chapters don't know because they literally get wiped out to a man and lose their records all the time. Information is lost or distorted over time. Some Chapters are also probably made from exiles that aren't allowed to claim their primarch and as such forget them.
Wow, another video on New Year’s Eve. I salute you Wolf Lord Rho.
Guilliman was aware of loyalist among the traitors. I do not think he would forsake them… the Custodes however… oof.
The Imperial Fists had numerous and powerful psychers before the council banned the librarious. One of the relics the fist of Dorn, a power maul. And crimson fists power fists
Unpopular opinion the BR are alpha legion since they fought em in almost evry game
I'm always glad if the blood ravens get some love in the lore
Can't remember but does Gabriel Angelos defeat the demon he inadvertently released on Tartarus from DoW?
I don't know I sadly never read the DOW books and don't know of any other blood ravens books, but it would make for a fine novel.
@@viewtifuljoe4412 Yes, its the entire plotline in Dawn of War 2 Retribution iirc
"Seeked” is incorrect and not a word in English, try Sought. 4:39
I hope this opens up the possibility of Cawl watching over other chapters that may have descended from traitor primarchs, such as the Silver Skulls being from the Iron Warriors or the Exorcists being from the Word Bearers. I like the idea of space marines who remained loyal to the emperor when the rest of their legions followed their primarchs into damnation. They deserve to have a legacy that's more than a footnote in the history of the Horus Heresy.
7:33
actually the blood Ravens being a Blood angel chapter would make a small bit of sense,
the above average number of psykers could be that just a Mutation in the gene seed that happened over time,
they might not be very affected by the 'Curses' of the Blood angels for some unknown reason, possibly they found a cure, and that was what they felt the need to hide.
Same question could apply to the Carcharadons too - apparently they also have Primaris now so presumably Belisarius would know their origins too.
Possibly related to the flesh tearers
@@henrypaleveda7760 well that would make them Blood Angels successors then, which tbh is pretty good from a rules perspective as their doctrines work well with space sharks, but there's solid theories they're either Raven Guard or possibly Night Lords
Raven Guard exiles.
@@sonicwingnut loyalist nightlords would be cool
Yep I want to see a book about a brilliant young inquisition that researches which chapters didn't get Primaris Marines, because they aren't part of the nine.
I can remember when playing DOW2 it was hinted that Captain Davian Thule at the end of the Kronus campaign (DOW Crusade)had found and read some records that supposedly told of their chapter's true origins, which he will not reveal at all and is backed up by the end of one mission when he becomes a fresh Dreadnought that he mistakes one of the fellow Officers you command as Gabriel Angelos and says "The secrets of Kronus shall not pass my lips".
Blood ravens= Alpha legion
Any content of the Blood Ravens. I will be here at light speed!
Maybe they're children of one of the forgotten primarch?
I thought we knew it was magnus
I believe they are from Magnus but for many others think differently on which Primarchs are The Blood Ravens come from.
The biggest question on my mind is, if Magnus is the Primarch of the klepto Blood Magpies. Where did the flesh change go 🤔
Its still around. They have aspirants who fall to it.
The Blood Ravens are ~1% the size of the Thousand Sons and most of the Chapter are non-psychic so the chances of it happening would be very low.
I want to think that Blood Ravens is Magnus's son, but why they never afflicted to flesh change like Thousand Sons did? Thats this questioned me a couple of times.
They do. They have aspirants who fall to it. But once their ascension to being an Astartes is complete, they stabilize.
The Blood Ravens are ~1% the size of the Thousand Sons and most of the Chapter are non-psychic so the chances of it happening would be very low.
Blood Angels, Salamanders, Raven Guard and chapters with specific visual or behavior geneseed are not possible. No Black Rage or Red Thirst, no Wulfen, no glowing eyes, etc.
Where did I heard "knowledge is power, guard it well" before, mhhhhh
what if they are that of the lost legions 2 and 11 or a misk of both
Do they not have dna tests or like a 23 and me kit in 40k?
All I know is their primarch did nothing wrong.
I'll be honest I love the blood raven despite being popular due to the dawn of war series is probably my most favorite non-founding chapter due to its unique role, culture, and its inherent value which is obtaining knowledge as there warcry say "knowledge is power, guard it well" and I absolutely love the fact that they have large amount of Liberians with a secret small group call the "masters" despite the blood raven where nearly wipe out because of the recent war which Aurelian crusade and the Civil they have, I'm glad that dawn of war series protagonist Gabriel angelos became chapter master and intends to expand and improve the blood raven chapter as whole, in other words making blood raven great again and better than before! I will still love to see more indept lore, background story of blood raven's origin as well an update on their current lore. I love the blood raven's reactions to the custodians of giving them primaris marines upgrades.
Blood ravens upon finding out magnus is their father: *We shall steal father back!*
Guilliman: What?
Magnus in chains: what?
5:15 how can you say that with a straight face? Given that they are about as far apart when It comes to geneseed, as is possible.
Ture.
This is a huge boon too the blood Ravens. I read the dawn of war books. The gene seed was causing mutations.
Not uncommon.
He knows as hell, he's the best Biologis in town
Yeah, the blood Ravens are definitely from the Thousand Sons that for sure.
blood ravens create their own mystery and no one knows their founding...... its alpharius isnt it
Personally, I think that the blood ravens are a loyalist successor chapter of the alpha legion.
GW has their collective heads so far up Ultramarine butt they haven’t had either the time or the inclination to explore other chapters
what if it goes farther and they are Magnus's sons. but they are his second legion the one the Emperor offered him if he returned
The concept of "traitor geenseed" is asenine.
@Space Vatnik ???
I'm sort of new in 40k but wasn't there a case of a chapter having a mixed heritage, the Relictors. To me it seems that the Blood Ravens descend from both Sanginius and Magnus. The whole blood motif and curiosity quirk none withstanding, but what if both gene seeds counter acted the negatives of the other. Like Magnus's gene seed negates the red thirst and black rage, while Sanginius' negates the flesh change. It's just a though, plus the name Blood Raven does point to a symbolic association to both Primarchs. Blood which is symbolic to the Blood Angels, and the Raven which is associated with wisdom and knowledge something symbolic to Magnus.
Modified thousand sons geneseed, someone tried to fix the flesh change issue and end up with a New diferent problem to fix, cleptomania, the dark secret of the blood ravens is that they cant control themselves and If anyone finds out what they have stored in their armories/relicaries multiple chapters would declare open war on the blood ravens.
Gifts you slanderer. Those were all gifts!
Magnus will try and turn them.
He will find out that they have been cured of the issues of the flesh change and that the Blood Ravens are the better Legion that was promised to him at the siege of Terra.
what if they are the corrected legion, the emperor promised magnus for abandoning the sons
I’ve been saying it for years, using traitor gene seed is fine, gene seed doesn’t make a space marine a traitor, it’s their primarch or their environment, situation etc that makes them become a traitor.
If Geneseed was only a genetic and material thing you would be correct. But it is not geneseed is spiritual and warp based as well. Specifically connected to their source their primarchs. It won't mean they will fall but it does make them more vulnerable to corruption. It still an individual choice but the deck is more stacked against you.
The emperor did try to bring Magnus back with a new legion of his sons free from corruption, but Magnus would have to thunder warrior his own sons, so BRs may be descendant from that or the corvidae cult or both or something
the bloody magpies are probably from the cyclopes
I came here to read Magpie jokes and I'm sorely disappointed :(
Dude half the Chapter turned to Chaos... and you saying they unquestionably loyal
He mean if they meet chaos Primarch that maybe their Primarch.
To be fair their chapter master was trapped on a space hulk and turned to chaos. Such tortures have felled many a loyalist.
I'll be genuinely surprised if Cawl doesn't know.
My kid built his Blood Ravens army as he was a fan of the Dawn of War series. in his head cannon, they are Corvidae from the Thousand Sons.
Found this video once again after recently going back to Dawn of War. I always liked the mystery about the Blood Ravens geneseed and who could be their primarch, but when thinking closer about it I doubt it is magnus.
My thought process is dividing their origin by "pure" and "mixed" geneseed.
If their geneseed is pure it is easy to rule out some primarchs while others become a possibility.
On the "pure" geneseed:
The Lion - highly possible (esp. with their secretive past)
Fulgrim - possible as in their perfection is focused on uncovering their past (no hits about their aesthetics)
Perturabo - no massiv geneseed flaws, but unlikely (because of missing character traits)
Khan - no massiv geneseed flaws, but unlikely (because of missing character traits)
Russ - unlikely, because of known geneseed flaws
Dorn - highly possible (stable geneseed and no outstanding physical feats to rule it out)
Curze - no massiv geneseed flaws, but unlikely (because of missing character traits)
Sanguinius - unlikely, because of missing geneseed flaws and no mention about their aesthetics
Ferrus - no massiv geneseed flaws, but unlikely (because of missing character traits)
Angron - no massiv geneseed flaws, but unlikely (because of missing character traits, i.e. their berserk nature)
Roboute - highly possible (stable geneseed and no outstanding physical feats to rule it out)
Morti - unlikely, missing character traits and geneseed characteristics
Magnus - on pure geneseed super unlikely as not a single BR has ever had the flesh-change (while TS almost went extinct because of it)
Horus - actually a possibility, no geneseed flaws and no extreme character traits to rule it out
Lorgar - no massiv geneseed flaws, but unlikely (because of missing character traits, i.e. them being fanatics)
Vulkan - no, because of missing geneseed mutations and character traits
Corax - no, because of missing geneseed mutations and character traits
Alpharius - to be fair, hard to say as there is barely anything to rule it out completely - yet unlikely
"mixed" geneseed could be almost any combination.. however, I doubt their origin is a mix of geneseed.
There are other Chapters, not of Magnus, who have a high number of librarians so I find it kinda hard to say this is a reason to make them sons of Magnus. It feels more like the person who came up with the Blood Ravens just smacked some cool traits and name pieces together and thought: "Yea, that's it!"
I would personally love to see them eventually figure out their geneseed would be from Horus as his geneseed is the only traitor geneseed that could work without having to mix it up with something. The drama it would pose and the conflict within the chapter... So much potential for good stories.
I wonder if guilliman has spies in the mechanicus?
primaris blood ravens… 🤔 sounds like we might get a new dawn of war which i’d look forward to as much as i do space marine 2
Before the destruction of Prospero, Magnus sent all his fleet away and we don't know what happened to them. They maybe have been hiden by the white scare (They were friend if I'm not wrong. ) and turned into the blood raven chapter.
Want more BR books and some BR specific minis
Could it be, to throw the monkey wrench into the works, that their primarch is one of the two missing/ deleted brothers?
Davian Thule most likely knows.
I tried clicking thumbs up harder, same result. Wish I could thumbs up more.
Hmm wat about the 2nd or 11th legions geneseed. Is it still in the genevaults?
Personally i hope their geneseed comes not from Magnus but from Janus.
As then the have in their geneseed bot the best and worst of the thousend sons.
I like the idea of them being thousand sons
Given the experience Cawl has with Geneseed, I imagine if he had the time/desire, he could work out where just about any Chapter originates from. If it is like DNA at all, there will be recognisable markers
I have to wonder if a loyal shard of Magnus might try to protect the blood ravens from the traitor primarch. Would make a hell of a non codex compliant chapter if they were to field such a shard in corporeal form. A shadow of Magnus in power, but something akin to a grey knight in power vs the relatively standard astartes of the blood ravens. Would also open the possibility that traitor, even demon primarchs might be able to be saved or redeemed in some way without the main demon primarchs being freed, by having fragments of their souls detach and turn back to the light.
Also where do people get Blood raven lore outside of the video games???
The answer I found in another video. That fantastic Index Astartes for blood ravens had a nice little short story in that issue of white dwarf.
Well Met My “Lord RHO” I hope you enjoyed your Christmas!?! Happy new year to you & your loved ones!! Sincerely... Thank you for the super high quality, intriguing side plots & ideas & obviously all the hard work you have put into your VIDZ in ‘21 & all these years I’ve been subscribed... Theres just so much reading for me nowadays (Gratefully) I’ve not finished H.H. yet; (just started J.French-Slaves to Darkness), plus I’m reading Gaunt (did BLOODPACT last) & Eseinhorn/Bequin just done Pariah!! So the Indomitus crusade, scurge stars, Imperium Nilius line is all new to me, so ive gotten most of my knowledge of the current state of our Imperium from your brilliant posts!! So once again Thank you & happy new year xxx
what makes G-man and Cawl nice is that they, unlike other imperium people, like to play fast and loose with rules. I think it's one of the reasons that Uriel is so popular.
Cawl knows, but does Cawl know that Cawl knows.
I think the truth of it is, in fact, just that GW didn't think this deeply about it. All they thought was; "'popular unit shifter' make money go up"
It's a shame. I like the primaris models, but I hate primaris. They've undone a ton of lore plus they're obvs gonna fully replace normal marines both in the lore and in the shop/on table top. My 10k marine army that I've been collecting and painting since I was 12 (37 now!) used to be worth a few thousand£ if I wanted to sell it. Now it's worth a quarter of that.
I am not an lore expert, but is it set in stone, that Thousand Sons were unloyal in the HHeresy? AFAIK, they were played into the role of traitors by ruinous powers and Horus (you know, sendind Space wolves after them and so on). Magnus broke his vow in an attempt to warn Empy about traitors, Thousand sons were not even defending (much) in start of Prospero burning and accepted Emperors judgement. Basically after they saw all is lost and they are viewed (wrongfully in their eyes maybe?) as traitors, they became traitors and succumbed to chaos.
And Rubric thing didn´t help it either, because whoever may have been still loyal Thousand Son probably became dust in an armour, though this happened after some time after Prospero meaning after the definining moment of choice.
So it is somewhere declared, they are traitors by choice and not forced into inevitable end by the actions of others? Wouldn´t that mean, there can be (could have been) loyal Sons somewhere during Heresy? Who became Blood Ravens? Meaning their geneseed (even if declared trraitorous or tainted or whatever) is not tainted (if that would be an issue).
Also a lot of chapters derived from "untainted" or "loyal" legions succumbed to chaos between 30k and 41k, so is there even a discussion about traitor geneseed to be inherently "bad" when (AFAIK) every legions geneseed produced heirs - individuals or even whole chapters - who chose Chaos over the Emperor? And to add one more argument, if I remeber lore, some individuals/chapters were forced into exile (read Chaos) by the Imperiums (typically High lords, Eclessiarchy or Inqusition) behaviour, same as (maybe) was situation with Thousand Sons, meaning against their will or based on a wrong assesment of their actions, will, motives, outcome?. So is it possible to even declare loyalist legions geneseed to be better then traitors geneseed so simply?
Sry, if it answer is a common knowledge somwhere in a lore, as I said, I am not an expert...
Whatever Thule saw on Kronus. Kais and Gorgutz must've known something about it. The next DoW should revolve around their Primarch or some shit. Another relic, someone tied to Kronus (Kais, Taldeer, Gorgutz, Eliaphas)
No way Guilliman didn't know about them. Or the other descendants of traitor legions who stayed loyal. I doubt he would have purged them.
Probably just gave them 13th legion bumper stickers and forbade it being discussed.
I truly believe the ravens were ment to replace the thousand sons, their GeneSeed is "Modified" in which I believe to stop Tzeentch from being a tzitch plus everything about their records makes sense and they kinda just showed up as well with no one knowing where they came from.
Blood Ravens are still a mystery, but a writer for the Minotaurs confirmed that they are Iron Warriors stock.
Yep I want to see a book about a brilliant young inquisitor that researches which chapters didn't get Primaris Marines, because they aren't decended from the loyal nine.
Plot hole there that puts mud on the faces of some chapters...oh wait, but they didn't limit it to the loyal nine to avoid the issue...AND...Chaos Marines break into facility so the can capture the Primaris Gene Seed and create Chaos Primaris.
Having a mystery just for the sake of being mysterious is just getting boring for me.
Not having any kind of resolution for years and years is just lazy writing. I think that's in large part one of the causes of their drop in popularity, dangle the carrot then just never mention it again. YAAAAAAWN.
I think they are descendants of 2nd or 11th, like a couple more of chapters that you can't fit anywhere like Charcharadons or Scynths of the Emperor or Soul Drinkers or Black Templars
Oh come on kleptomaniac tendecies , thirst for knowledge and hoarding practices; They are obviously from Magnus