There is also a pragmatic reason. If every loyalist marine is becoming Primaris, with firstborn being phased out, it becomes a necessity to have the access to their own Primaris if they want to keep the infiltration going.
I wouldnt be surprised. The Alpha Legion always made a priority of having the latest most advanced wargear they could get their hands on. Hydra Dominatus.
@@BloodyArchangelus That is open to interpretation. I think that the minority of Alpha Legionnaires were loyalists pretending to be traitors, whilst many others were unaware of the secret loyalist intentions and were therefore actual traitors. Over time, I suspect that the percentage of true traitor Alpha Legionnaires has grown. Just my own interpretation of the state of affairs.
@@BloodyArchangelus They are, but then they might not be, but then they might be, then they do something not traitor and then do something that is. The fun about them is we just don't know if they are or are not and that varies from warband to warband. By far one of the most intriguing legions ever....but their definitely traitor...maybe..I think, perhaps a little bit traitor maybe a lot LOL.. Kinda like the Fallen Dark Angels not all of them are traitor and not all are still loyal.
Like their raid on 'The Raptor Project' which was sabotage, I' am sure they could secure the knowledge of creating Primaris of their own, If they haven't already.
I've honestly been a fan of the Hydra ever since I read "Legion". I never knew them as traitors before I dove into the lore (starting with Horus Rising). So to me, the Hydra will always be double agents and my favorite Astartes faction
Alpha Legion NEED Primaris Marines to continue their ability of espionage. First borne will only be valid for a limited time from here-on, so Alpha Legion will realize that THEY need Primaris, even more than any traitor legion does.
@@GaIvatr0nAll space marines have a regular medical check. A simple scan would blow their cover too easily as they'd lack the additional implants. Unless they already hacked the scanner to make it show scan results of normal primaris.
I am of the opinion that the traitors should not get primaris. But also that they should not be held as inferior still. It would be a decent way of balancing out the more experienced traitor as well as their mutations and gifts to an imperium that has a higher baseline. It pushes the traitors to reach for more desperate solutions and rely more heavily on their own power. The end result would be to further make the two factions different from each other in their own way that makes sense within the story.
In lore, GW's hired writers have been further separating the Traitor and Loyalist legions. I mean, 10,000 years have gone by. It doesn't make sense to still have it be regular marines vs. spikey marines. Most of the traitor legionnaires (from the OGG times) don't even remember who they were before, and have become so "gifted" that they have ascended to part demon champions, or descended into just spawn. Alpha Legion were among the first to encounter the Primaris and gave lengthy descriptions about it being heretical, but also...interesting. Fabius and the Emperor's Children, in their endless pursuit of decadent perfection, have obviously wanted to get their hands on the Primaris.
Wellll you forget, odds are eventually you are going to have primaris marines who will fall to chaos. As such its only a matter of time before a warband gets their hands on primaris Genesee although finding a traitor primaris apothecary might take longer for the 2 new organs. Not like this will affect the Thousand Sons or Death Guard much, but smaller bands like the Night Lord's are definitely slowly dying out.
Except not all traitors are Chaos aligned. Alpha Legion for example more often than not hate Chaos pretty adamantly and are neither Imperial nor Chaos.
@@SilenTHerO78614 I got nothing against chaos getting a a certain amount of primaris but I think that converting most, if not all of them over to primaris like what is happening with the loyalists is a complete waste both in the game and lorewise.
I'd be genuinely surprised if they didn't have them already. Belisarius was already openly floating the idea of Traitor Legion lineage Primaris to Roboute, and ten millennia is a very long time for an Archmagos that important and that open-minded to NOT be reached out to by the Sons of Alpharius and Omegon...
Rho we still have some fluff that suggests that Cawl didn't improve on anything. But that he took the final enhancements originally meant for the Astartes program. That were abandoned after the Black Carapace debacle almost ended the project before it started. That the EoM decided that the Astartes were good enough and ordered further work on the other enhancements stopped. So all Cawl's did was spend 10,000 years attempting to finishing Amar Astarte's final enchantments for the Astartes project. Meaning the main reason no one improved on the Space Marines is no one could match Amar Astarte's genius. Also we already have entire Indomius fleet full of Primaris fall to Chaos in the form of the Murder Curse. With all that said I do love the Iron Warriors first look at Primaris. They were in Imperial Fist yellow and they immediately went to attack them. The Black Legion and Alpha Legion marines with them said to wait and let them figure out what's going on with these new Imperials. The Iron Warriors were literally like, 'But, but Imperial Fists! We smash Imperial Fists! Its all we live for anymore.' But I do wonder why the Hydra has 3 heads when there were only two Primarchs of the Alpha Legion, what does the Third Head Symbolize?
I always took the third head to symbolise the rest of the Legion, kill one of the two Primars and some regular blue boi will just step up calling himself Alpharius.
its been said the third is the legion itself, but its the alpha legion so it could be anything, the legion could have 0 primarchs, 3 heads could be innacurate, there could be 3 or more primarchs because cloning those is a thing and more options
I think out of all the traitor legions the Alpha Legion are the perfect ones to be the first to have Primaris Legionaires. It's in their nature to be inquisitive and learn everything they can about a given enemy. True Fabius might be the mad scientist of the traitor forces, but he's very much focused on his own thing, where as the Alpha Legion will gladly go the extra mile to get their results.
Not suprising at all to me at least i wouldnt be suprised if the Legion already had sleeper agents in Primaris chapters mainly due to the fact that they have remained for the most part across the legion relatively uncorrupted Hydra Dominatus
In before the entire Primaris Founding was secretly composed entirely of the Alpha Legion on Terra left over from the Heresy, and also that Belisarius Cawl is actually just three Alpha Legion Astartes standing on each others shoulders inside a gigantic robotic trenchcoat.
'Harrowmaster' (and the short story 'The Brightest and Best', which features some of the same characters) is an essential read for fans of the XX Legion. Thoroughly recommended.
It took Cawl, the magic plot warp squirrel, 10 millennia to create the Primaris. Even if they have the advantage of studying some captured ones and warp spaghetti it would extremely lame if some DarK Mechanicus magos could that easily copy Cawl's work and create Chaos Primaris.
Once you have the geneseed its self-sustaining. You can grow geneseed into any organ for a Space Marine, so taking Primaris geneseed will allow you to make the missing organs for Chaos Space Marines.
Would the Alpha Legion create their own Primaris first... or try it with another Traitor legion first? Tricking the World Eaters, or negotiating with the Iron Warriors, for instance? In any case, it's Interesting to think of the Alpha Legion being in control of the destiny of Primaris Marines in the Traitor Legions. Not good, not bad, just interesting.
I'd say that they will recruit them like they did with solomon or like they did in "the brightest and the best", Hypnoindocrtinate potential recruits for a loyal chapter so that you can aktivate them later and pick them up to serve the Legion
I think the main problem with the Alpha legion implementing the primaris would, ironically, be the difference in size. Alpha legionaries are all supposed to be identical to their brothers when armored, so the legion would likely need to stockpile resources and then make a mass-crossing of the rubicon primaris.
You’re assuming they don’t already have sleeper agents in all legions already. And multiple. Even the Dark Angels got infiltrated, think about it. 10,000 years and not a single soldier from The Alpha legion noticed? I highly doubt it. If anything they were the first to get the upgrade.
Only started watching your content recently despite being subscribed for awhile now, and absolutely loving all the content you put out. Thank you for your work and looking forward to all your content in the future
My favorite primarch burn took place between the khan and fulgrim iirc. To paraphrase "I hear you do strange things to your ships" Khan replies "I hear you do strange things to your marines." They were speaking of the khans modifications to increase his vessels speed and agility and the creation of the noise marines by the emperors children. The astartes have a long history of being tinkered with as that conversation came about before the horus heresy officially kicked off.
Alpha legion might be the first to run new recruits as primaris, but some primaris have already fallen to chaos I believe, so other legions could have them.
It would be such a shock if my Primaris only chapter the Dust Vipers, with a SOF oriented 8th company, “The Third Fang”, happened to have a unknown linage despite being Primaris…
It would be interesting if we'd see any more of the pure primarch gene data that the alpha legion managed to retain by fooling horus tie in to their possible primaris marines being a thing in 40k
Great thing about the Alpha Legion is they are the only traitor legion who are more or less sane so you can have proper dialogue with them. Black Legion next but the further from the heresy and original marines they get they are essentially just mental chaos undivided.
For once I have read the novel before viewing video. Regarding it, there's a few elements in it that I really liked - aside being a good alpha legion book, it also gives shoutout to both shroud of night and sons of the hydra (by mentioning both leaders and their warbands from them and reasons they didn't answer the call for legion gathering (redacted were "missing" while unsung told them to f off). Furthermore, there's this hilarious segment/rant about fabius bile(been called charlatan and incompetent) while examining a primaris' corpse brought by Solomon. And to top it all off, this Solomon is in a way Alpha Legion's answer to Decimus of the Night Lords(meaning they both seek to unite respective legion if able). As for the topic at hand, we shouldn't forget that they also got the raptor project data from raven guard as well (will any of it come to fruition, that's a whole different pair of shoes, so to speak). Edit to add: while I'll admit Mike Brooks knows his stuff and how to write it, I've heard that he might be sus (adb/cs goto levels of sus, or close to).
from my loose (and speculative) understanding, the raptor project was an attempt to take the idea of quick augmentation that created the thunder warriors and apply that to the astarties blueprint so that they could be made faster. The way thunder warriors worked was you took a full grown dude and quickly augmenting them, which wasn't super stable. So the astarties take more time to make and are more stable as a result. Presumably the raptor project would be more selective than with the TWs and at least some of the slow groundwork would still be done so that you would be jumping from an aspirant who was already partway along their ascension anyway and would be more able to withstand such a big upgrade than a normal person. So the raptor project was an attempt to take an quick solution and adapt it's processes to the astarties without introducing the instability of the thunder warriors and the alpha legion's sabotage introduced more instability than the TWs and that's why the marines made this way were so messed up. All that goes to say that even if the alpha legion has the unmolested data from the raptor project, and assuming it would actually work, I think the best they could do with it is make their recruitment process faster. (even more speculation here than the above speculation) the rubicon primaris is just the idea of the raptor project but applied to firstborn, you take a transhuman who is resilient enough to survive the upgrade process and quickly bootstrap them into a primaris. Caul wasn't really doing a whole lot of new work here, just adapting existing methods and tech to work more stably, which he was able to do because unlike Corvus with the raptors or the emperor with the astarties he wasn't under any time limit. The primaris then would just be a mix of thunder warrior augmentation with the slower astarties method of augmentation applied to stabilize it, the sinew coils (which I feel like caul either reused from the false astarties upgrade process that gave folks like cor pharon and luther their astarties status even though they were too old or entirely invented himself as this one especially feels the most like something the mechanicus would do), and then refined the processes of the raptor project to allow for these new enhancements to be applied to existing marines. I don't really have any citable lore to back this speculation up, but it all seems reasonable enough and makes the task of improving on the emperor's work more of a team effort even if the end product has caul's name on it. For the alpha legion to get primaris out of the raptor project they'd need to do a lot more work to go from that to primaris and I don't think they have the information needed to actually get there. Maybe if they captured enough primaris to reverse engineer it, or infiltrated a chapter to see how the sausage was made they might be able to do it though.
@@zrrion6the6insect6 Now that was both interesting read and speculation, worth a video all onto itself. Some believe that raptor project was a prototype of primaris, and that 13th founding might have been cawl's doing too(to iron out the kinks), tho they are speculations at best too. Speaking of coils, iirc from Spear of the Emperor, when mc, amadeus, was undergoing rubicon, Ducarius(druid of emperor's spears, in his role as apothecary) had to thread the sinew coils into amadeus' muscles(no detail to what extent and for which muscles they had to be threaded into). Edit to add: they did infiltrate a chapter in the harrowmaster(think it was crimson consuls, that they wiped out save one, who enters an inquisitor's service, only to reveal himself as alpha legion when Solomon of all ppl utters the trigger word), so getting one of theirs primarisified is a possibility.
Keeping all of what I have heard in mind - I must ask one burning question . Is there any chance in the near future that the Alpha Legion might change sides and seek redemption ? Also what of the rumor that Omegron is Cypher ?
I always thought it common knowledge that they were loyal to both sides? Alpharius & Omegon leading a side, each side fighting for either Imperium or Chaos
The Omegon is Cypher thing is next to impossible at this point. Guilliman 100% would have noticed when they met since it has been shown that Primarchs can pretty much sense each other. Hell Russ and Dorn both sense Alpharius or Omegon which ever one was actually there at the time. I can't remember which book it is with Leman but it happens when the Alpha Legion attacks the Space Wolves and it happens with Dorn in Praetorian of Dorn.
It makes me think of the Cold War and the Soviet KGB capturing western technology and learning to copy it. The AK47, the H-Bomb, and tons and tons of cameras came out of that. The Alpha Legion and the Primaris just makes sense, it's very clever.
I would think even Roboute would've foreseen this. Regardless of gene seed the Adeptus Astartes can fall, it's just a matter of what pushes them over the edge. More surprised we haven't heard of any all Primaris Marine Chapters going rogue.
This could be way to make Alpha Legion a big player on the grand scheme of things. I'd love if they became a level of threat Black Legion is, but without a clear goal in mind. I'm still cautious when saying Alpha is a traitor Legion as we reeeally can't know Omegon's thinking process as he was pretty much just left to lead them after Alpharius died. Either way, Hydra Dominatus!
Alpha legion my favorite so definitely hope they get first but honestly I could see them making primaris warband that doesn't mimic alpha legion but another legion so they can infiltrate more secretly like have a silver Templar looking warband that starts working for inquisition and they pull strings from there.
The Alpha legion would be the new power players of the 41st millennium, Im sure that Huron would see this as opportunity to improve upon his own status and maybe rival Abbadon for supremacy as warmaster, just my take on it.
They might have the bodies showing them the new organs and upgrades. But they don't have the Sangprimus Portum, which is pretty much essential to make Primaris with the fact that the genetic material is more potent than what's available. (PS - I know they have the Raven Guard thing - I can't mind the name).
I mean it isn't surprising from the Alpha Legion at least, they're among the most practical Legions on both sides and they've always since the Great Crusade thought about how to gain an advantage or upper hand, especially in terms of technology and in open warfare operated very much like the Iron Hands. Precise, Coordinate Tactical strikes, with a focus on speed and overwhelming firepower with the latest weaponry.
Creating Primaris? Possibly, but it would be much easier and up the Alpha Legion's alley to just capture and hypno-indoctrinate existing Primaris to be their eyes and ears or sleepers ready to be activated at their whim. I would think it would be a big risk of being detected for any existing Alpha Legion to infiltrate and cross the Rubicon within other extant Loyalist legions. This is just my two cents on the matter, I'm open to it either way.
When I made an "Alpha Legion" Primaris army, I just said indoctrinated children were selected by an Loyalist chapter and slowly overtook the non indoctrinated members
Yeah, it even must not be a whole army, but I also thought that hypno-indoctrinated children that would be selected to become Astartes would be a way for the Alpha Legion
Well given the events in the Horus Heresy and what the Alpha Legion did when Corax ran to Terra and begged his father for help to re-build his legion they've had the knowledge for 10,000 years as I doubt the dark Mechaniums addition would have been left out as they knew what they did.
The most strangest part of the story is the Alpha Legion think that the guardsman meant to say Black instead of Silver. I mean, they're sorta opposites.
Also lest we forget in the heresy, Corvus received basically the same data Kawl worked with to try and rebuild his legion. Until the alpha legion nicked it and then perhaps even Alpharius got a false copy so Omegon might still have that vital data. Plus Alpha Legion gene seed it stable enough to handle all this.
Alpha legion are already Primaris prototypes or something similar. Being bigger than other astartes and having their gene seed secrete implies they are unique. Also.. the name, Alpha, first.. prime, first. The legion meant to protect the empire no matter what.. the sword in the dark. Stands to reason they are different, like custodies or primaris and may be primaris entirely even
What if them gaining primaris is the jumping off point to finally answer the question of who is a traitor in the legion. Like all the Alpha legion that cross the Rubicon are confirmed loyal while those that are chaos tainted can’t. Then you get a schism in the legion and maybe even the reappearance of the surviving primarch
Can’t reinforce that everyone should read Shroud of Night enough. Highlights: 1) Emperor’s Children being gross 2) Alpharius putting them in their place 3) jokes about how their leader is named Alpharius 4) meta-jokes about the leader being named Alpharius (“Aren’t they all?”) 5) logistics of planetfall during a planetary siege 6) World Eaters being World Eaters 7) Mechanicus being Mechanicus (the stupid version, not the funny version) 8) a replacement Astronomicon 9) Celestine vs Kharn! 10) Celestine backing the Alpha Legion over the Imperium Drawbacks: A) No audiobook B) No sequel yet Apparently GW hired Erebus to write the sequel, and Kor Phaeron to perform the audiobook, because they’re filthy filthy traitors (GW or EC? But I repeat myself).
If there are enough Chaos Players out there then i imagine there would not like to left out the loop to long , so of course the market will make that specific change come about. After all it is an incredible flexible universe.
I called it from the beginning and I'll say it again; AL should have them or be the ones that provided Cawl with the tech yo make them because they still have the materials to from the Raptor Project to make Astartes even better than Primaris.
of course they can, after all they are a loyal/traitor legion who fought for the Emporer/horus! and since then keeping the imperium safe/destroying it!
The Alpha, just as the Emperor's Dark Angels, will keep these secrets to themselves. The Primaris are a grand weapon for the Imperium, but also a grand entryway for the Hydra. I will assume for now that Cawl and Gulliman are not ensuring that EVERY Imperial foothold has a completed list of Primarius chapters to prevent such espionage. THAT will be one of jobs left to El Johnson.
OK! my thoughts are has anyone craw included ever gave the thought about primaris being captured or dead bodies being taken and added a fail safe into the primaris?
I'm just surprised it took 10,000 years since they ganked all that Legion-building tech. They've either forgotten or have some super extreme discipline.
The Alpha Legion stole the Emperor's information on the Astartes project from the Raven Guard during the Heresy and kept the unaltered data for themselves, so the Alpha Legion being the first to have Primaris marines should be expected
One thing. Alpha Legionnaires and their Primarch(s) are almost identically sized (hence, I am Alpharius) Primaris are larger then first bornes. If the Alpha Legion does field Primaris, they will likely be taller than their own Primarch.
My unironic hot take is that every primaris marine from Cawl's basement is an Alpha Legion operative, and Big Bobby G himself is Alpharius and/or Omegon. I'm just saying, he WAS the last one to see, one, both, or neither of them alive, and ordered the body burned and no one was allowed to see it.
Crawl is a member of the alpha legion. Even if he isn't (and they aren't) traitors I could see him copying himself so that he can play both sides for the sake of progress.
They have the information from the Raptor Project. They stole pure geneseed, so that covers the "they need uncorrupted geneseed to become Primaris" angle too. They NEED to either create Primaris Marines, or cross the Rubicon to stay effective. If they wait too long, they'll ALL eventually get wiped out due to being at a disadvantage across the board.
Since the Arks of Omen, aren't there already primaris CSM? If there were important enough apothecaries in the group that got corrupted, they could be making more already
Given how most Primaris are Ultra Marines, and how most Ultra Marines recruits are former Tempestus Scions of the _55th Alphic Hydras_ regiment I'd say the _Alpha Legion_ already got all the Primaris they'd ever need...
Imagine Omegon shows up and converts the Primaris Alpha Legion, roflstomps the traitors in the Unseen using his blood to power boost his new Astartes, and comes back roaring onto the stage to officially rejoin the Robute.
I still maintain that ALL OF THE PRIMARIS not including people who got upgraded after, are actually the Alpha Legion. Think about it. They would have infiltrated EVERY chapter, simultaneously, with open arms. That would be the ultimate Alpha Legion play.
There is also a pragmatic reason.
If every loyalist marine is becoming Primaris, with firstborn being phased out, it becomes a necessity to have the access to their own Primaris if they want to keep the infiltration going.
I wouldnt be surprised. The Alpha Legion always made a priority of having the latest most advanced wargear they could get their hands on. Hydra Dominatus.
Are we sure the Blood Ravens aren’t Alpha Legion
Mmm brothers. The time has come. We need to liberate more relics from the alpha legion!
Dark angels got better gear than your hydra heads 😈
@@PhaeronServinus We would like to know your location. To ste.. assist you in your endeavors.
Yes brother we do! For the Emperor!
I have to say that the more I read/learn about the Alpha Legion, the more they rise up my chart of favorite traitor legions.
They are up there. They get shit done. By any means.
They are not traitors
@@BloodyArchangelus That is open to interpretation. I think that the minority of Alpha Legionnaires were loyalists pretending to be traitors, whilst many others were unaware of the secret loyalist intentions and were therefore actual traitors. Over time, I suspect that the percentage of true traitor Alpha Legionnaires has grown. Just my own interpretation of the state of affairs.
@@BloodyArchangelus They are, but then they might not be, but then they might be, then they do something not traitor and then do something that is. The fun about them is we just don't know if they are or are not and that varies from warband to warband. By far one of the most intriguing legions ever....but their definitely traitor...maybe..I think, perhaps a little bit traitor maybe a lot LOL.. Kinda like the Fallen Dark Angels not all of them are traitor and not all are still loyal.
@@makaisonn7030 An accurate description of the Death Guard pre-nurgle attention also.
In the end they will just discover that the magos was just Belisarius cawl using a mustache
😄
Like their raid on 'The Raptor Project' which was sabotage, I' am sure they could secure the knowledge of creating Primaris of their own, If they haven't already.
That's what this made me think of too. It's very interesting.
I've honestly been a fan of the Hydra ever since I read "Legion". I never knew them as traitors before I dove into the lore (starting with Horus Rising). So to me, the Hydra will always be double agents and my favorite Astartes faction
They're loyal, if even they don't know it.
@@arespaulson414 100%
I think it's weird no one from Alpha legion has crossed the rubicon when they have been deep undercover in one of the numerous loyal chapters.
None have been announced, after all the war bands and sleeper cells act mostly independent so odds are there is at least 1 Primaris Apha legionnaire.
None? Or none _that we know of?_ 😏
#HydraDominatus
@@henryviiifake8244 My thoughts exactly 😁
Laughs in HRYDRA DOMINATUS 😂
Alpha Legion NEED Primaris Marines to continue their ability of espionage. First borne will only be valid for a limited time from here-on, so Alpha Legion will realize that THEY need Primaris, even more than any traitor legion does.
You forget that they are already the tallest space marines, much bigger than regular ones already.
@@GaIvatr0nAll space marines have a regular medical check. A simple scan would blow their cover too easily as they'd lack the additional implants. Unless they already hacked the scanner to make it show scan results of normal primaris.
Ah I seee!@@minhducnguyen9276
@@GaIvatr0nive never heard the alpha legion were taller. Sauce or its head canon
@@RMCbreezytheir Primarchs where near able to hide among them, also their twin-primarchs weren't the tallest of primarchs.
I am of the opinion that the traitors should not get primaris. But also that they should not be held as inferior still. It would be a decent way of balancing out the more experienced traitor as well as their mutations and gifts to an imperium that has a higher baseline. It pushes the traitors to reach for more desperate solutions and rely more heavily on their own power. The end result would be to further make the two factions different from each other in their own way that makes sense within the story.
In lore, GW's hired writers have been further separating the Traitor and Loyalist legions. I mean, 10,000 years have gone by. It doesn't make sense to still have it be regular marines vs. spikey marines. Most of the traitor legionnaires (from the OGG times) don't even remember who they were before, and have become so "gifted" that they have ascended to part demon champions, or descended into just spawn.
Alpha Legion were among the first to encounter the Primaris and gave lengthy descriptions about it being heretical, but also...interesting. Fabius and the Emperor's Children, in their endless pursuit of decadent perfection, have obviously wanted to get their hands on the Primaris.
Wellll you forget, odds are eventually you are going to have primaris marines who will fall to chaos. As such its only a matter of time before a warband gets their hands on primaris Genesee although finding a traitor primaris apothecary might take longer for the 2 new organs.
Not like this will affect the Thousand Sons or Death Guard much, but smaller bands like the Night Lord's are definitely slowly dying out.
Except not all traitors are Chaos aligned. Alpha Legion for example more often than not hate Chaos pretty adamantly and are neither Imperial nor Chaos.
it will happen 100%@@SilenTHerO78614
@@SilenTHerO78614 I got nothing against chaos getting a a certain amount of primaris but I think that converting most, if not all of them over to primaris like what is happening with the loyalists is a complete waste both in the game and lorewise.
I'd be genuinely surprised if they didn't have them already.
Belisarius was already openly floating the idea of Traitor Legion lineage Primaris to Roboute, and ten millennia is a very long time for an Archmagos that important and that open-minded to NOT be reached out to by the Sons of Alpharius and Omegon...
doesnt he have all the gene seed from the primarchs and subsequent chapters?
@@12gagebastisyes
Alpharius: “Finally some regular Marine armor I can actually fit decently in”
Rho we still have some fluff that suggests that Cawl didn't improve on anything. But that he took the final enhancements originally meant for the Astartes program. That were abandoned after the Black Carapace debacle almost ended the project before it started. That the EoM decided that the Astartes were good enough and ordered further work on the other enhancements stopped. So all Cawl's did was spend 10,000 years attempting to finishing Amar Astarte's final enchantments for the Astartes project. Meaning the main reason no one improved on the Space Marines is no one could match Amar Astarte's genius. Also we already have entire Indomius fleet full of Primaris fall to Chaos in the form of the Murder Curse. With all that said I do love the Iron Warriors first look at Primaris. They were in Imperial Fist yellow and they immediately went to attack them. The Black Legion and Alpha Legion marines with them said to wait and let them figure out what's going on with these new Imperials. The Iron Warriors were literally like, 'But, but Imperial Fists! We smash Imperial Fists! Its all we live for anymore.' But I do wonder why the Hydra has 3 heads when there were only two Primarchs of the Alpha Legion, what does the Third Head Symbolize?
I always took the third head to symbolise the rest of the Legion, kill one of the two Primars and some regular blue boi will just step up calling himself Alpharius.
its been said the third is the legion itself, but its the alpha legion so it could be anything, the legion could have 0 primarchs, 3 heads could be innacurate, there could be 3 or more primarchs because cloning those is a thing and more options
Always love hearing anything about the Alpha Legion, Hydra Dominatus.
I think out of all the traitor legions the Alpha Legion are the perfect ones to be the first to have Primaris Legionaires. It's in their nature to be inquisitive and learn everything they can about a given enemy. True Fabius might be the mad scientist of the traitor forces, but he's very much focused on his own thing, where as the Alpha Legion will gladly go the extra mile to get their results.
Not suprising at all to me at least i wouldnt be suprised if the Legion already had sleeper agents in Primaris chapters mainly due to the fact that they have remained for the most part across the legion relatively uncorrupted Hydra Dominatus
Primaris geneseed cannot be corrupted. There’s another story the Iron Drakes take out a full Alpha Legion cell.
Im pretty positive fabius bile has isued capture at all cost so he can make his own
In before the entire Primaris Founding was secretly composed entirely of the Alpha Legion on Terra left over from the Heresy, and also that Belisarius Cawl is actually just three Alpha Legion Astartes standing on each others shoulders inside a gigantic robotic trenchcoat.
'Harrowmaster' (and the short story 'The Brightest and Best', which features some of the same characters) is an essential read for fans of the XX Legion. Thoroughly recommended.
Something tells me the alpha legionnaires won't be willing to share the primaris tech with the chaos coalition.
It took Cawl, the magic plot warp squirrel, 10 millennia to create the Primaris. Even if they have the advantage of studying some captured ones and warp spaghetti it would extremely lame if some DarK Mechanicus magos could that easily copy Cawl's work and create Chaos Primaris.
Once you have the geneseed its self-sustaining. You can grow geneseed into any organ for a Space Marine, so taking Primaris geneseed will allow you to make the missing organs for Chaos Space Marines.
It took him 10000years to make space marines 1foot taller…
never underestimate magic Squirrels
Who said that the Alpha Legion got it from the Dark Mechanicum? That would be the most un-alpharius thing to do.
Would the Alpha Legion create their own Primaris first... or try it with another Traitor legion first? Tricking the World Eaters, or negotiating with the Iron Warriors, for instance?
In any case, it's Interesting to think of the Alpha Legion being in control of the destiny of Primaris Marines in the Traitor Legions. Not good, not bad, just interesting.
I'd say that they will recruit them like they did with solomon or like they did in "the brightest and the best", Hypnoindocrtinate potential recruits for a loyal chapter so that you can aktivate them later and pick them up to serve the Legion
Easily the most badass chapter that nobody knows about. Even the darkangels dont know what they do and neither does their own legion
I hope we get more novels following the unsung and their journey at the end of shroud of night which is an absolute amazing novel.
...and if anyone can overcome the loyalty preprogramming, it's the XX.
I think the main problem with the Alpha legion implementing the primaris would, ironically, be the difference in size. Alpha legionaries are all supposed to be identical to their brothers when armored, so the legion would likely need to stockpile resources and then make a mass-crossing of the rubicon primaris.
You’re assuming they don’t already have sleeper agents in all legions already. And multiple. Even the Dark Angels got infiltrated, think about it.
10,000 years and not a single soldier from The Alpha legion noticed? I highly doubt it. If anything they were the first to get the upgrade.
They are not supposed to always be identical. Only when it is important.
I’ll have to return to this video, just bought renegades harrowmaster and haven’t finished it yet
They've already got the Raptors schematics so unless it was squirreled away they have equivalents.
Only started watching your content recently despite being subscribed for awhile now, and absolutely loving all the content you put out. Thank you for your work and looking forward to all your content in the future
Knowing is half the battle. The other half is extreme violence!!
When Roboute is all alone and slides out of his Armor of Fate: he’s Omegon.
My favorite primarch burn took place between the khan and fulgrim iirc. To paraphrase "I hear you do strange things to your ships" Khan replies "I hear you do strange things to your marines." They were speaking of the khans modifications to increase his vessels speed and agility and the creation of the noise marines by the emperors children. The astartes have a long history of being tinkered with as that conversation came about before the horus heresy officially kicked off.
"What imperial technology do you have access to?"
Alpha Legion: "Yes"
Alpha legion might be the first to run new recruits as primaris, but some primaris have already fallen to chaos I believe, so other legions could have them.
It would be such a shock if my Primaris only chapter the Dust Vipers, with a SOF oriented 8th company, “The Third Fang”, happened to have a unknown linage despite being Primaris…
It would be interesting if we'd see any more of the pure primarch gene data that the alpha legion managed to retain by fooling horus tie in to their possible primaris marines being a thing in 40k
Alpha legion moving up in the world, the more love they get the more hype i am then again their best part is the whole secret status.
Great thing about the Alpha Legion is they are the only traitor legion who are more or less sane so you can have proper dialogue with them. Black Legion next but the further from the heresy and original marines they get they are essentially just mental chaos undivided.
Im currently working on deathwatch/alpha legion army so this is nice to know
For once I have read the novel before viewing video. Regarding it, there's a few elements in it that I really liked - aside being a good alpha legion book, it also gives shoutout to both shroud of night and sons of the hydra (by mentioning both leaders and their warbands from them and reasons they didn't answer the call for legion gathering (redacted were "missing" while unsung told them to f off). Furthermore, there's this hilarious segment/rant about fabius bile(been called charlatan and incompetent) while examining a primaris' corpse brought by Solomon. And to top it all off, this Solomon is in a way Alpha Legion's answer to Decimus of the Night Lords(meaning they both seek to unite respective legion if able).
As for the topic at hand, we shouldn't forget that they also got the raptor project data from raven guard as well (will any of it come to fruition, that's a whole different pair of shoes, so to speak).
Edit to add: while I'll admit Mike Brooks knows his stuff and how to write it, I've heard that he might be sus (adb/cs goto levels of sus, or close to).
from my loose (and speculative) understanding, the raptor project was an attempt to take the idea of quick augmentation that created the thunder warriors and apply that to the astarties blueprint so that they could be made faster.
The way thunder warriors worked was you took a full grown dude and quickly augmenting them, which wasn't super stable. So the astarties take more time to make and are more stable as a result. Presumably the raptor project would be more selective than with the TWs and at least some of the slow groundwork would still be done so that you would be jumping from an aspirant who was already partway along their ascension anyway and would be more able to withstand such a big upgrade than a normal person.
So the raptor project was an attempt to take an quick solution and adapt it's processes to the astarties without introducing the instability of the thunder warriors and the alpha legion's sabotage introduced more instability than the TWs and that's why the marines made this way were so messed up.
All that goes to say that even if the alpha legion has the unmolested data from the raptor project, and assuming it would actually work, I think the best they could do with it is make their recruitment process faster.
(even more speculation here than the above speculation) the rubicon primaris is just the idea of the raptor project but applied to firstborn, you take a transhuman who is resilient enough to survive the upgrade process and quickly bootstrap them into a primaris. Caul wasn't really doing a whole lot of new work here, just adapting existing methods and tech to work more stably, which he was able to do because unlike Corvus with the raptors or the emperor with the astarties he wasn't under any time limit. The primaris then would just be a mix of thunder warrior augmentation with the slower astarties method of augmentation applied to stabilize it, the sinew coils (which I feel like caul either reused from the false astarties upgrade process that gave folks like cor pharon and luther their astarties status even though they were too old or entirely invented himself as this one especially feels the most like something the mechanicus would do), and then refined the processes of the raptor project to allow for these new enhancements to be applied to existing marines. I don't really have any citable lore to back this speculation up, but it all seems reasonable enough and makes the task of improving on the emperor's work more of a team effort even if the end product has caul's name on it.
For the alpha legion to get primaris out of the raptor project they'd need to do a lot more work to go from that to primaris and I don't think they have the information needed to actually get there. Maybe if they captured enough primaris to reverse engineer it, or infiltrated a chapter to see how the sausage was made they might be able to do it though.
@@zrrion6the6insect6 Now that was both interesting read and speculation, worth a video all onto itself. Some believe that raptor project was a prototype of primaris, and that 13th founding might have been cawl's doing too(to iron out the kinks), tho they are speculations at best too. Speaking of coils, iirc from Spear of the Emperor, when mc, amadeus, was undergoing rubicon, Ducarius(druid of emperor's spears, in his role as apothecary) had to thread the sinew coils into amadeus' muscles(no detail to what extent and for which muscles they had to be threaded into).
Edit to add: they did infiltrate a chapter in the harrowmaster(think it was crimson consuls, that they wiped out save one, who enters an inquisitor's service, only to reveal himself as alpha legion when Solomon of all ppl utters the trigger word), so getting one of theirs primarisified is a possibility.
Alpha's getting their hands on Primaris tech makes sense.
Though I'm in the camp of Chaos not getting Primaris. Rather they get more chaos juiced
Keeping all of what I have heard in mind - I must ask one burning question . Is there any chance in the near future that the Alpha Legion might change sides and seek redemption ? Also what of the rumor that Omegron is Cypher ?
I always thought it common knowledge that they were loyal to both sides?
Alpharius & Omegon leading a side, each side fighting for either Imperium or Chaos
The Omegon is Cypher thing is next to impossible at this point. Guilliman 100% would have noticed when they met since it has been shown that Primarchs can pretty much sense each other. Hell Russ and Dorn both sense Alpharius or Omegon which ever one was actually there at the time. I can't remember which book it is with Leman but it happens when the Alpha Legion attacks the Space Wolves and it happens with Dorn in Praetorian of Dorn.
It makes me think of the Cold War and the Soviet KGB capturing western technology and learning to copy it. The AK47, the H-Bomb, and tons and tons of cameras came out of that. The Alpha Legion and the Primaris just makes sense, it's very clever.
They have to... Its going to be really hard to infiltrate other loyalist legions as a first born with all of them moving to Primaris.
I'm sure Fabulous Bill has had a chance to look at a few primaris by now, he could probably do something similar but different if he wanted to.
I would think even Roboute would've foreseen this. Regardless of gene seed the Adeptus Astartes can fall, it's just a matter of what pushes them over the edge. More surprised we haven't heard of any all Primaris Marine Chapters going rogue.
Would be amusing if he accidentally copied the loyalty to Cawl and Guilliman.
That IS the plan. - alpha legion
This could be way to make Alpha Legion a big player on the grand scheme of things. I'd love if they became a level of threat Black Legion is, but without a clear goal in mind.
I'm still cautious when saying Alpha is a traitor Legion as we reeeally can't know Omegon's thinking process as he was pretty much just left to lead them after Alpharius died.
Either way, Hydra Dominatus!
If only cawl focused on making Bolter rifles that a guardsman can use, mass produce them, its check mate.
Makes sense. Loyalists getting Primaris isn't exactly weird is it?
Alpha legion my favorite so definitely hope they get first but honestly I could see them making primaris warband that doesn't mimic alpha legion but another legion so they can infiltrate more secretly like have a silver Templar looking warband that starts working for inquisition and they pull strings from there.
The Alpha legion would be the new power players of the 41st millennium, Im sure that Huron would see this as opportunity to improve upon his own status and maybe rival Abbadon for supremacy as warmaster, just my take on it.
I could see the alpha legion forgiving Fabius bile solely to get things up and running and gain the upper hand on the traitor legions
They might have the bodies showing them the new organs and upgrades. But they don't have the Sangprimus Portum, which is pretty much essential to make Primaris with the fact that the genetic material is more potent than what's available. (PS - I know they have the Raven Guard thing - I can't mind the name).
I mean it isn't surprising from the Alpha Legion at least, they're among the most practical Legions on both sides and they've always since the Great Crusade thought about how to gain an advantage or upper hand, especially in terms of technology and in open warfare operated very much like the Iron Hands. Precise, Coordinate Tactical strikes, with a focus on speed and overwhelming firepower with the latest weaponry.
It is a trick. The alpha legion primaris are just two firstborns stacked together in power armor with a trench coat to finish the disguise.
Creating Primaris? Possibly, but it would be much easier and up the Alpha Legion's alley to just capture and hypno-indoctrinate existing Primaris to be their eyes and ears or sleepers ready to be activated at their whim.
I would think it would be a big risk of being detected for any existing Alpha Legion to infiltrate and cross the Rubicon within other extant Loyalist legions.
This is just my two cents on the matter, I'm open to it either way.
I like how alpha legion have secret languages and codes hidden within normal banter.
When I made an "Alpha Legion" Primaris army, I just said indoctrinated children were selected by an Loyalist chapter and slowly overtook the non indoctrinated members
Yeah, it even must not be a whole army, but I also thought that hypno-indoctrinated children that would be selected to become Astartes would be a way for the Alpha Legion
Well given the events in the Horus Heresy and what the Alpha Legion did when Corax ran to Terra and begged his father for help to re-build his legion they've had the knowledge for 10,000 years as I doubt the dark Mechaniums addition would have been left out as they knew what they did.
I just assumed the Alpha Legion kept the upgrades to themselves without spreading the knowledge.
@@JuanSanchez-rv9xy exactly given how they like secrets within secrets within secrets much like the Dark Angels
The most strangest part of the story is the Alpha Legion think that the guardsman meant to say Black instead of Silver. I mean, they're sorta opposites.
Also lest we forget in the heresy, Corvus received basically the same data Kawl worked with to try and rebuild his legion. Until the alpha legion nicked it and then perhaps even Alpharius got a false copy so Omegon might still have that vital data. Plus Alpha Legion gene seed it stable enough to handle all this.
Great Book 👌🏻 Just finished it . And yes , It would make , perfect Sense , If the Chaos Marines Go Primaris
What if cawl, always wanted the traitor legions to get the primaris, so he could use the old order 66. To win in the end
Alpha legion are already Primaris prototypes or something similar. Being bigger than other astartes and having their gene seed secrete implies they are unique. Also.. the name, Alpha, first.. prime, first. The legion meant to protect the empire no matter what.. the sword in the dark. Stands to reason they are different, like custodies or primaris and may be primaris entirely even
I read harrowmaster recently and it was really good😊
I thought the emperors design of space marine was technically improved with the improved raven guard they attempted after istvan ?
It sounds like 40k is about to get real spicy again. It makes sense the alpha legion is the first to really try to make primaris.
What if them gaining primaris is the jumping off point to finally answer the question of who is a traitor in the legion. Like all the Alpha legion that cross the Rubicon are confirmed loyal while those that are chaos tainted can’t. Then you get a schism in the legion and maybe even the reappearance of the surviving primarch
Im still waiting for the Dark Mechanicum to make abhuman astartes.
Can’t reinforce that everyone should read Shroud of Night enough.
Highlights:
1) Emperor’s Children being gross
2) Alpharius putting them in their place
3) jokes about how their leader is named Alpharius
4) meta-jokes about the leader being named Alpharius (“Aren’t they all?”)
5) logistics of planetfall during a planetary siege
6) World Eaters being World Eaters
7) Mechanicus being Mechanicus (the stupid version, not the funny version)
8) a replacement Astronomicon
9) Celestine vs Kharn!
10) Celestine backing the Alpha Legion over the Imperium
Drawbacks:
A) No audiobook
B) No sequel yet
Apparently GW hired Erebus to write the sequel, and Kor Phaeron to perform the audiobook, because they’re filthy filthy traitors (GW or EC? But I repeat myself).
I hope they give the Alpha Legion in Space Marine 2 a chance to customize into a Primaris if they update it.
If there are enough Chaos Players out there then i imagine there would not like to left out the loop to long , so of course the market will make that specific change come about. After all it is an incredible flexible universe.
I’m actually really excited about this
I’m actually running a loyalist Alpha Legion that uses the Primaris Marines. I can’t wait to throw them down on the table.
My Primaris army is already Alpha Legion, so this is just icing
This is the same writer of Alpharius: Head of the Hydra which was a magnificent novel.
Reminds me of how the alpha legion had stolen the proto type MKVI armour plans and developed their won version during the great crusade.
Now I wonder if the Primaris marines could resist the flesh change of the thousand sons.
I called it from the beginning and I'll say it again; AL should have them or be the ones that provided Cawl with the tech yo make them because they still have the materials to from the Raptor Project to make Astartes even better than Primaris.
of course they can, after all they are a loyal/traitor legion who fought for the Emporer/horus! and since then keeping the imperium safe/destroying it!
Wolf Lord's vids are best watched at 1.25 speed
The Alpha, just as the Emperor's Dark Angels, will keep these secrets to themselves.
The Primaris are a grand weapon for the Imperium, but also a grand entryway for the Hydra. I will assume for now that Cawl and Gulliman are not ensuring that EVERY Imperial foothold has a completed list of Primarius chapters to prevent such espionage. THAT will be one of jobs left to El Johnson.
OK! my thoughts are has anyone craw included ever gave the thought about primaris being captured or dead bodies being taken and added a fail safe into the primaris?
I'm just surprised it took 10,000 years since they ganked all that Legion-building tech. They've either forgotten or have some super extreme discipline.
I don’t think The Alpha Legion would share them. Not to mention the primaris are incorruptible, so the chaos gods would be disturbed by it.
The Alpha Legion stole the Emperor's information on the Astartes project from the Raven Guard during the Heresy and kept the unaltered data for themselves, so the Alpha Legion being the first to have Primaris marines should be expected
Raptor Primaris incoming.
One thing. Alpha Legionnaires and their Primarch(s) are almost identically sized (hence, I am Alpharius)
Primaris are larger then first bornes. If the Alpha Legion does field Primaris, they will likely be taller than their own Primarch.
My unironic hot take is that every primaris marine from Cawl's basement is an Alpha Legion operative, and Big Bobby G himself is Alpharius and/or Omegon. I'm just saying, he WAS the last one to see, one, both, or neither of them alive, and ordered the body burned and no one was allowed to see it.
Crawl is a member of the alpha legion. Even if he isn't (and they aren't) traitors I could see him copying himself so that he can play both sides for the sake of progress.
They have the information from the Raptor Project.
They stole pure geneseed, so that covers the "they need uncorrupted geneseed to become Primaris" angle too.
They NEED to either create Primaris Marines, or cross the Rubicon to stay effective. If they wait too long, they'll ALL eventually get wiped out due to being at a disadvantage across the board.
Since the Arks of Omen, aren't there already primaris CSM? If there were important enough apothecaries in the group that got corrupted, they could be making more already
Given how most Primaris are Ultra Marines, and how most Ultra Marines recruits are former Tempestus Scions of the _55th Alphic Hydras_ regiment I'd say the _Alpha Legion_ already got all the Primaris they'd ever need...
Imagine Omegon shows up and converts the Primaris Alpha Legion, roflstomps the traitors in the Unseen using his blood to power boost his new Astartes, and comes back roaring onto the stage to officially rejoin the Robute.
theres two ppl we dont like in alpha legion and thats girlyman and dorn
I still maintain that ALL OF THE PRIMARIS not including people who got upgraded after, are actually the Alpha Legion. Think about it. They would have infiltrated EVERY chapter, simultaneously, with open arms. That would be the ultimate Alpha Legion play.
Well of course. How else would they infiltrate the primaris chapters :) Hydra Dominatus.
Based upon nothing, this is the start of the Alpha Legion returning to loyalist
New toys for the most enigmatic legion. Death to the false emperor!
Just when you thought that modern 40K lore couldn't get any stupider...
I mean theres already a whole Primaris Alpha Legion successor chapter, plus an real msrine one.