Killed by very friendly fire - WWII ID tags found in Egyptian desert reveal their tragic secrets
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 พ.ค. 2022
- Two World War II identification tags recovered in the Egyptian desert and belonging to soldiers that were killed in action are researched, revealing their secrets and leading to the discovery of how both of their owners died during the war.
One was killed by an accidental discharge while the other died during the sinking of the Laconia.
The video explains how Italian WWII era identification tags can be researched without much difficulty, and shows numerous World War II examples of friendly fire or accidental deaths.
battlefieldarchaeology.blogsp...
findthemia.blogspot.com/
researchww2.blogspot.com/
I am trying to contact the family of the following soldier, if you are his relative, please send me an email:
-Johannes Neubert 22.6.1922 Dresden + 1.9.1942
- Soto Tenente Chiarello Francesco, 26.2.1906 Salerno
A Crocodile Tear Productions documentary
How to research World War II Italian identification tags - El Alamein - Egypt - Divisione Trento - 1942 - 1941 - 1943 - Afrika Korps - Laconia incident - Laconia sinking - U Boat - U boot - identification disks - dog tags - piastrina - Western Desert - Desert Rats - Bersaglieri - 46° Reggimento Artiglieria Trento - 7° Reggimento Bersaglieri - Alexandria - Desert War - Genealogy research - Ancestry - Battle of the Atlantic - Battle of El Alamein - Lybia - Bir Hacheim - Tobruk - Ruweisat - Tel El Eisa - Suez Canal - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel - Fort Capuzzo - In the Blue - The wire - DAK - Deutsches Afrika Korps - friendly fire statistics - accidental death - caduti di guerra - One Common Ennemy - submarine - missing in action - killed in action - KIA - MIA - disperso - U-156 - Korvettenkapitän Werner Hartenstein - 12 September 1942 - RMS Laconia - accidental discharge - weapon safety - triton null - metal detecting - détection - militaria collecting - collection - Cairo - Quattara depression - Manco la fortuna non il valore - A Seemingly Ordinary Man: An Account of the Sinking of the Laconia in World War Two - Ruolo Matricolare - British 8th Army - Bernard Montgomery - torpedo - U-506 - Gloire - mysterious - secret story -
It’s amazing the stories you have dug up and showed to the world. These men were doomed to be forgotten by history but you just happened to find their tags and bring their lives to light. And not only them, but going through your channel and the respect you give to every soldier no matter their nation or rank, sharing their stories, it’s nice to hear Germans and Italians talked about like they’re humans and not glossing over American faults like most people do. God bless you for the forgotten men you have shown the world
I can assure you no one glosses over Americas fault. It’s shoved in our face daily. Regardless I agree with everything else you said!
I totally agree. x
Thank you for honoring all soldiers, sailors and airmen who served every Nation.
Thank you for understanding me.
Not 4 germans n their allies🖕🏻
Except Nazi pigs.
As an italian i have to thank you for the kindness and pity you used to tell this story about italian soldiers.
I did not know neither the technical details of italian tags back then nor the horrifying odissey of Laconia.
Many italians died in Africa fighting with bravery and honor but (as opposite of the epigraph you showed) they did not need more luck, they simply were on the wrong side of history.
The last detail (in my awful english): i served in the army in 1983 and they gave us 'normal' tags back then, meaning two separable metal pieces.
One more very last thing: in my expierence in the army (with 'fake' ammunutions assaults) the chaos, the noise, the fatigue is so high that i'm sure that in real fightings the rate of friendly fire casualties is way much higher tan 15 or 20%.
You may not know but many Italian prisoners of war were taken from North Africa and kept by the Australians, in Australia. There, they were allowed out on day release and they worked on local farms. There are many stories of the Italians being loved and appreciated by the local communities, where their joi de vivre was a breath of fresh air. I read of many having relationships with local women and of farmers that were in tears when the time came for the men to be repatriated. I think many of the POWs also wanted to stay when the war was over. These many stories of how popular the Italians were and how much licence they had (they could come and go from the POW camps without/with minimal supervision), are in stark contrast to the German and especially the Japanese POWs. The Germans were quite surly and many were hardened racists. The Japanese were deeply shamed by having been captured and in one famous incident, at Cowra, they escaped en mass as an act of communal suicide. Most of the men guarding the POWs were older men or those unfit to serve and as they never left Australia, they were typical laid back Australians with easy going mentality, probably this is why the Italians were so popular.
Another anecdote I can share relates to a psychiatric hospital. I used to work with the records and during the war I saw many Italian POWs claiming to hear 'radio waves in their heads'. As this is very strange, I wondered if it was a ruse to get a better outcome than being stuck in the camps. Only Italian POWs made this claim.
Finally, Australia was blessed with large scale Italian migration after WW2 and the country was both vastly improved and changed beyond all recognition as a result. Viva Italia.
@@montecarlo1651 First of all, i really appreciate so much the kind words you used. I did not know of italian pows in Australia but what you say is not a surprise at all for me: we are usually friendly, smiling and we are not fit for war, in particular for a war not to defend your soil but to conquer territory belonging (as in the case of Greece, France and others) to 'friend' nations. I am sure that motivation is the real engine in every aspect of human life (career, sport and of course even war), so there was no way with those conditions for italians to win that war (actually i am sure it was a maybe unconscious reason to lose it) and this is one of the worst guilt of Mussolini and his regime back then.
Talking of italian migration in Australia i can tell you that even to these days we are attracted by life in your country: my nephew went for her honeymoon in Australia and she and her husband were so impressed by australian people and way of life, that for some years they were seriously talking to 'migrate' in your country.
To conclude, it is really an honor for me when you say italian migration changed for better the way of life in your country and i am completely honest with you when i say that here in Italy we have all the same positive opinion about australians. My idea is that this is connected to the weather: when you are born and live in sunny countries you are use to go out, enjoy life, new places and new people, whereas in cold countries you must stay home, with the same people and you are not 'open' to life; so somehow, sunny peoples sympathize each other.
So, thanks again e viva Italia e Australia😊
I immediately thought of the Laconia when you said his boat was sunk. He was one of the unlucky ones. Amazing story. Great video.
Then you are certainly well educated about that time frame!
@@CrocodileTear I'm kind of addicted to WWII history. So many epic stories and events. So many "what ifs" that still affect us today. Those dog tags make it tangible.
Thank you for doing a through research. As a veteran, I can attest that these things can you have shown in this video are still happening.
This has got to be one of the most fascinating channels on you tube.
This is very interesting. It reminds me of a WW2 Japanese flag I have with writing on it. It has the soldier's name and a shrine stamp from his hometown. After a lot of research I discovered a memorial website for his unit and found out he was killed by shrapnel in Burma during the Battle of Irrawaddy River. After finding this out I was amazed and had much more respect for the flag as the soldier likely had it on him when he died. I live in the US and I often wonder how the hell it got here if the battle was fought between British Indian and Japanese soldiers.
Take it a step further and see if there are any of his family still around. Maybe once Japan opens back up for tourism, visit the shrine the flag was stamped at. I’ve seen a documentary where some guy actually did that with the flag and apparently their brother or sister was still alive.
@@shdwbro 🫡🇯🇵
How it got here you'll likely never be able to know for sure. As a hypothesis I can propose two ideas. First, there were Americans who flew tons of transport missions in "CBI", China Burma India. It's possible the British picked the thing up and traded it off for something extra or for some favor or something like that, who knows. Second, it's equally possible that it was taken back to England by the British soldier who picked it up and got sold on eBay as militaria.
@@larrythorn4715 That is very true. After so many years this Japanese flag has probably been passed through many different collectors and I ended up being the current caretaker. If only the flag could talk, it would be a crazy story for sure.
@@shdwbro That's is a great idea. Hopefully one day I get the chance to travel to Japan. If I were to find a family member I would be obligated to return the flag to the family where it belongs. It would be a great thing.
These are so interesting! MORE videos please!
Thank you, I have a few more planned for the next months.
Well that is why we have not heard of it. It's not like the American's to go around and say "oh yeah those people survived and then we bombed them..." Fantastic video, went way off from where I thought it was going and I loved every minute of it. Would really enjoy more of these, just finding out what happened to soldiers who's dogs tags you have found.
It certainly went way off of where I expected as well.
Battlefield relics are interesting enough by themselves, but your impressive research makes them all the more fascinating- and moving. Great work. They're not happy stories, for the most part, but at least the stories are being told.
Remarkable story to an amazing find. Thanks for your commitment to solve the gaps in history.
I relative of mine was an RAF pilot of single engined ground attack fighters like the Hawker Tempest and Hawker Typhoon. He would often be doing low level strafing attacks in France and the Low Countries against targets like trains.
One day when returning to base, he had an engine failure over the English Channel. He successfully bailed out but was last seen struggling to get into his life raft and sadly drowned.
You have an absolutely fascinating manner in which you present history. Your data analytical skills (46 to 461) also surprised me, seeing to what extent you will go to find relatives and history on a particular fallen soldier. I can understand that what you do is more like "treasure hunting", where the treasure lies in the history and events leading to the death of a soldier. I really enjoy your channel, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences with us.
Thanks for your interest and kind comments!
As always, thank you for your amazing research and telling these soldier's stories.
What an incredible video. It is heart breaking to see the pic of those young girls who were rescued only to know that they were killed by their own allies.
This is the best channel on TH-cam
Thank you
Another great video!!! I hope you never stop doing these
I'm surprised that more countries didn't use the two in one approach to dog tags. It's clever.
GREAT WORK AGAIN. I ALWAYS LOOKING FOR A NEW VIDEO FROM YOU. I love how you find out how they die where they were. KEEP IT ROLLING
I greatly appreciate your efforts. As a long-time amateur WWII historian, I could spend hours watching/listening to your videos.
Thank you so much for bring back this amazing story.
Fascinating research, covering areas of military history that is overlooked. Thank you for tacking the time to share it with us.
Excellent video, we appreciate all the research that you do and share with us👍
At the national training center in California, Barstow, California- There was an average of one soldier killed per rotation, every month at the time, and this was peace time.
What an amazing job you do…bringing all this stories to a light and most of it the details and all the research you do… fantastic work… RIP out dear soldiers .
Great commentary!
This was very interesting, thank you for all the time and effort put into the research
Such amazing research. It's very... incredible to see such an abstract object come to life with all the background information. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you ! Such a great organized delivery of important information. I would love to research WW2. May these people forever be remembered. War is hell.
Excellent work! Thank you for all your hard work!!
Thanks for the work you do, it’s amazing.
I have always found your videos informative and interesting - keep them coming.
A really well presented historical study. Thank you for your efforts. Good work.
Fabulous stories and presentation! Thank you.
I read an account of a daughter trying to find out how her dad died during the Battle of Arnhem in Sept 1944, The daughter went to reunions and was told eventually what had happened to her dad.
he was defending a house under attack and his Bren gun jammed, he held it vertically, looked down, banged it on the floor and it fired.
That’s sad. Never look into the barrel of a loaded gun. Ever.
hang fire....
Someone is yanking your plank.. any rifle or machine gun, never mind a Bren gun, you’re taught to cycle the chamber. A Bren gun is really simple to clear; you just pull the bolt back and let it slide forward.. it takes around half a second between stoppage and clearing it, and you don’t have to move from your firing position. No way would a trained machine gunner, or even a rifleman using the Bren stand up (under fire) and bang it on the floor.. there is nothing that this would fix and it’s nothing like any rifle drill. WW2 Brits were the best at rifle drill.
Your vids are riveting interesting to me.
Please keep them coming, 5 star production.
13:33 reminds me of the scene from Band of Brothers with the guy who goes on about wanting a German Luger as a trophy for most of the series, then during the battle of the bulge he finally gets one, and it goes off in his pocket, causing him to bleed to death from a wound to the leg. Since that series is based on actual events, he must've had a similar death report.
An ANZAC veteran of New Guinea once told me a story about a mate of his who was hungry for a Japanese gunto sword. Eventually, he found one near a dead Japanese officer who was killed by a mortar. He picked up the sword and detached the scabbard from the dead man .
The scabbard was damaged by a fragment resulting in the last few inches missing.
I can't remember how it happened, but the souvenir hunter accidentally stabbed himself in the calf with the filthy tip of his trophy.
The vet said that his mate's leg quickly became infected in the tropical heat and eventually required an amputation.
I have no idea how true that story was.
@@sharonrigs7999 It's certainly a believable account, if nothing else.
@@edwhatshisname3562 That's what I thought. Perfectly plausible.
I have spent a lot of time in the tropics and know that even a light scrape should be cleaned and treated with antibiotic ointment.
Have had several Lugers thru the years and I prefer a pistol with an external hammer
I thought this channel died a silent death, I am very pleased you are still active. I love your attention for detail and explaining what happened.
The corona propaganda has not killed me, and channel monetization has revived me ;)
Stay tunned as they say.
Always an outstanding video and presentation. Thank you.
amazing , well put together , thank you
I love your channel and the work you do. It's amazing a d I'm sure there's some extremely grateful people out there.
Thanks a lot.
This is amazing research, thanks! Military court records from WW2 are interesting too. Similar to accidents, there was a lot of solider on soldier crime.
This channel has such interesting content and it’s so well done
Fascinating. Thank you! I truly love this stuff.
I hope you will do more videos like this🙏🏼 I know it’s morbid but it’s so interesting to hear what actually happened to individual people and a bit about their lives before they went to war. It makes me incredibly grateful that my own grand dads and great grandad survived that hell on earth.
You should watch some of my other videos then. Some show actual exhumations, others show investigations based on archives such as the video about Unknown body X-77, or the Deadly Typo video
Great job as usual!
A very nice clip. Congrats for your great work
Incredible research!
This is extremely fascinating. Thank you.
That U boat story is crazy
Amazing stories and videos! Keep the good work up, please!
Thank you for your amazing in depth videos. So much detail and research giving us amazing historical stories.
Thanks for watching. This video deserves more views.
Great investigation & storytelling, thanks !
Great video, well done! You should definitely try to make more content (like this). Thank you!
I have about ten other real "scenarios" planed, so stay tuned.
Love your work…
Fascinating.
Awesome content. My great uncle was captured by the Japanese at Bataan and survived the death March. He was shipped back to Japan and he was slave labor in the coal mines. He was working 700 ft below ground when the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima and he was 12 miles from ground zero. The guards were supposed to execute the prisoners but they were abandoned instead
Did he survive the mine? Thats an amazing story
Amazing work!
Excellent video … so much information! Wonderful 😊Thank you!
Great research and video
Thank you. Information is the most valuable resource.
Fascinating, well researched. Very good video.
Very detailed information, good research!
Excellent segment.
The story of the Laconia and all the stupid ways soldiers die off the battlefield remind me of the novel Catch 22.
I unfortunately was present at the autopsy of one such death where a drunken soldier was struck by a speeding car as he and his comrades walked home from a bar on a poorly-lit country road. His body was tossed and his head impailed on the fence post for the base’s peripheral fence.
Another unfortunate young guy whose death I had to explain to family (and lawyers later in a dispute over death benefits between an ex wife and girlfriend) was due to his own recklessness on a powerful sport bike on an Italian road as he road over a narrow bridge. Unfortunately he was in a coma with cerebral edema which I could not treat as I knew it should be. All I could do is watch the local “neurosurgeons” tarry and dispute interventions. As he gradually progressed through decorticate, then decerebrate body positions.
Just realized that I forgot to Like the previous Video of you, but since you're doing such an amazing job and producing super interesting content I went back to leave a well deserved like :)
Thanks ;)
Most interesting wwII content i have seen in quite some time. Thank you for doing this very important work.
Thanks, and I would suggest watching a few other of my videos.
I love your channel, you should have more subs. Love your work!
Hello Mr . Croccodille . I Just wanted to say , that i have great respect for you in what you do 👌🏻. I follow you now few weeks and find your video's great . I follow video's like yours with great intrest and thank you for that .Up to the next great video's 👊🏻. Regarts from Holland 🇳🇱.
Thanks mate.
You even interviewed soldiers from that period??? Man you're good at this
Thanks. The interviews are all in the book I wrote: Autopsy of a Battle
@@CrocodileTearthe operation dragoon one?
@@wtice4632 Yes, exactly
Incredibly interesting. Thank you. In peacetime the idea that they would bomb the U-boats with survivors on them is horrific but, l suppose the justification was how many more people would die if they let them go. If anyone wants to know the writing on the memorial roughly translates as, they lacked luck, not courage.
Never any justification for committing a war crime, then brushing it all under the carpet.
@@geoffheard5768 Fair comment. I believe similar logic as theirs was also used for dropping two atomic bombs but, it's easy to judge history harshly. I'm grateful that my only exposure to war is via lost grandfathers and great uncles,
Uboat commanders stopped rescuing survivors when the RAF started using them as bait.
bombing the boats and not even sinking them in the process i might add.. what a waste of life
The U-boats wouldn’t even have been combat effective if they were essentially being used to save civilians.
amazing research skills, really interesting videos thank you. linking items to people and a history increases their human value and also monetary value, well done. The story of the Laconia reverses the typical stereotypes of ww2
Thank you for this noble job🙏🏻❤️
Another cracking video thanks for sharing your research. The Italian dog tags are very interesting, I only own one ww2 Italian item, an m33 helmet, might have to get some more. I've been reading several books lately on bomber command, RAF, in ww2 and the amount if deaths by accidents is quite a revelation, so I agree with your research on that subject, the latest book states that so many accidental deaths and injuries were caused in the RAF by too many recruits being trained at once without the correct training period and/or lack of proper training facilities, or at least the rapid expansion of the wartime armed forces, so exactly what you stated in the video, also I agree that lack of education will if played a part. I had heard of the Laconia incident, I read that the german navy forbade anymore acts of kindness from their u boat crews, one has to wonder if those little girls in the photo survived....the attack by the American aircraft is a shocking thing, the air crew of that plane must of felt terrible about having that on their conscience.... , however I believe it was a bit more complicated than just an order to attack, there was a bit of a mis understanding as to what the situation was, 'on the ground' so to speak...either way it was something that should of been considered a war crime 🤔🤔🤔.The pictures of El Alemain and the area of the battle fields destruction and building upon is truly awful....why hasn't this been reported in the main stream media?...anyway great video again and thanks, all the best and hello from the UK 🙂🙂🙂
Top stuff. Liked and subscribed
Thanks mate
Histroy itself is much more dramatic than any movies, thank you！
Thank you for a very interesting video. This is the type of everyday info that never reaches the mainline press.
Amazing video. thank you
My father was a WW2 US Navy Veteran, whose ship (USS Delta) was stationed off Oran,Algeria for a time. He often told me about the Axis POWs that came through the port- as he was detailed as SP to guard them. The Germans had neat uniforms, buttoned tunics, hats straight, etc- while the Italians wore sandals, no shirts, were drinking and singing.LOL.
Fantastic research. Really interesting.
great video!
What an incredible story...thanks!
That was really good. Thank you.
A little gem of a TH-cam thank you
Oh dang, when the research showed the troop transport "Laconia", instant shivers went down my spine... 0.o
Fascinating story Sir! Thank you for sharing! Klaus
Great Video Pat Tillman is the current protégé of the unfortunate friendly fire deaths
You do amazing work. It would be interesting for you to give a little background on how you got into this position. Appreciate your work and objective nature leaving us with the impression of the fact that it doesn't matter the side rather that we are all mortals caught in the grasp of the insanity of a few, that propels us into conflict with others, who could well have been our friends in another scenario. Best to you my friend
Thanks for your kind words. I am actually not in any special position to talk about this stuff. I am just very interested in a few WWII topics, ans so have studied them carefully, enabling me to say interesting things in these videos.
Such an amazing video
Could not agree more with you about the construction on those beautiful beaches and the garbage.
Because of what is involved in the cleaning of a rifle, more specifically a bolt action rifle like the Carcano, which was used by Italian troops in WW2, it is almost impossible to accidentally shoot oneself while cleaning it. In order to clean the rifle bore the bolt is almost always removed and patches and a rod are used to clean the bore and at the same time the soldier cleans the bolt and the exterior of the weapon. Since the bolt is removed it is physically impossible to fire the rifle even if by some chance a round was stuck in the chamber and if one was it would be safely pushed out by the cleaning rod.
Unfortunately in all likelihood the soldier took his own life deliberately or through a negligent discharge that occurred while mishandling a loaded weapon, but not while cleaning. Perhaps even he was accidentally killed by a fellow soldier's mishandling of a weapon. This happens quite often and I recall during my time in the military and overseas quite a few negligent discharges and some caused death or wounding. The generic term of accidentally killed while cleaning the weapon is to appease the family. No need to stain the memory of the dead soldier.
What you say is very true. However this document was not accessible to family members untill dozens of years after the war, so this was not written in this document to appease the family. Also, as a forensic pathologist, I know that suicidal gunshot wounds in the eye are almost unheard of. So at the end of the day, with the various evidence, there remains a large question mark. This is what also makes this man's story compelling to think about.
There is no will on my part to stain anyones memory, I am just working with the documents I have, and I have enormous respect for this soldier regardless of if he shot himself on purpose or by accident, or if another person shot him by accident or on purpose. Almost all these people were conscripts who never asked to be in the army or be sent to the hell of war. But they did what their society told them to and paid the ultimate price at a young age.
I think if I had a letter saying a loved one died in a car accident in the middle of a war I might be a little relieved. Depending on how bad ass they were.
After the Laconia incident Grand Admiral Karl Dönitz gave the Laconia Order which forbade the Uboats from picking up or helping any survivors from any ship they sunk, and which sent the Uboats on the course of unrestricted warfare
amazing detective work
Awesome story , amazing research ! ✔️
Thanks!
Thank you for that intresting video.
The Laconia is actually a pretty well documented story. A true horror story.
Awesome video! I have a researched dog tag from a KIA from 3° Reggimento Bersaglieri, and he was killed in Russia just after 1 or 2 weeks after arriving. The body was brought back to Italy in the 90s, and the family decided to sell the half tag in the last year. So it ended up in my collection. If they didn't want it, it will be better in my collection.
In my experience most Italian families are not at all interested in their WWII heritage. It is their choice and I cant blame them. There are many exceptions of course.
@@CrocodileTear Sadly it's a political thing, after the war everything involved with the war was seen as fascist and is in some ways still seen as fascist, ignorance and strong political propaganda from left partyies caused this along with a schooling system that treats history like a class B subject. My grandfather was in Russia with the 5th Alpini and Luckyly came back, but he left there a lot of friends, he never spoke too much about russia and i totally understand why. Anyway keep up this work! Documenting researching and finding dogtags is like sending them home, all fallen deserve to be remembered.
Fascinating stuff. I had heard of the Laconia and was vaguely familiar with the story, now I want to read that book.
The book "One common enemy" is excellent and I highly recomment it, even for someone with no interest in WWII.
@@CrocodileTear Thank you.
Such a great video, so interesting.
Thanks. this video doesnt get the success it deserves because it speaks about Italians, not Germans.
Very fascinating research, sad but interesting nevertheless. Thank you for sharing ✌️🇺🇸
Thank you for your work