Opeth and Porcupine Tree's 4 bars secret!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Time Consuming Ep #15 is all about disguises.
Some polyrhythms are confusing.
But not all confusing songs are polyrhythms.
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In this video I talk about some other ways to create rhythmic illusions without using polyrhythms.
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Opeth - 'Deliverance' original song:
• Opeth - Deliverance (A...
Opeth - 'Harlequin Forest' original song:
• Opeth - Reverie / Harl...
Porcupine Tree - 'Bonnie the Cat' original song:
• Video
And lastly, HUGE thanks to Omer Gabay, my brother, for all the tremendous production help!
If you have recommendations for songs for this channel, send them over!
gabayyogev@gmail.com
Thanks for watching, Yogev
Instagram: @yogev.gabay.haorginal
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Intro by Sharon Renold (@sharonrenold on Instagram) and myself
Intro music by Shwesmo (@shwesmo on Instagram)
#musiceducation #polyrhythms #opeth #porcupinetree
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I can't help but tap along to that riff in deliverance. It's like a personal challenge to not mess it up.
Agree... every time since the first time I heard the riff.
Can confirm
It's seriously one of the greatest song outro ever written.
I've been airdrumming that outro riff for so long now, that when I finally bought myself an e-drum couple of weeks ago I kinda almost could play it first try lol.
This is a nice riff, but i guess i listened to much of this kind of hypermeasure music. it just feels normal to me. Still great tho! )
the deliverence riff is rather simple after a while. but the harlequin forest ending always manages to throw me off even after the 100th listen^^
It really does a good job of making you feel lost in a forest.
Let's not forget the most shifted song ever, Combustion by Meshuggah, which is to my knowledge the only song you can listen to in two different ways from start to finish
Oh man such a good song!
Whatchu talkin about Willis?
he just did a video about it
Imagine Dragons have a few songs in both 4/4 and 8/8
I see Opeth, I click.
I see procupine tree and opeth together.
Insta sub
Gavin Harrison is a genius.
That's why Bonnie The Cat is like it is.
i was seriously expecting something similar to Tommy The Cat
Me, smiling smugly: 'Hah, found the 1 on first try in both Opeth songs'
"By the way, the song Arithmophobia..."
*smile disappears*
hahahahhahh
i learned deliverance on drums not by counting but just by memorizing the pattern, only after that did i realize that its actually just 4 bars of 4/4 altough it does sound odd
that’s the best way to do it. music may be math in some part, but approaching it that way from the start isn’t a good idea.
Porcupine tree and Opeth are most unique bands on planet yet they have lots of similarities
I miss old Opeth and Porcupine Tree. Two of my favorite bands.
SAME!
@@YogevGabay based
Newpeth is good too
Steven Wilson's Raven That Refused to Sing and Hand Cannot Erase were amazing albums. Not so keen on his others though.
For that deliverance outro, I literally have sat there and listened to it over and over and over and over trying to figure it out
We all did. And then Harlequin Forest came out and I'm like. Ok. AGAIN.
I'd really enjoy a breakdown of the intro to Porcupine Tree's 'Sentimental'.
It's your lucky day
th-cam.com/video/bjkcMfZuL-8/w-d-xo.html
The moment you said "Harlequin Forest" I went oh boy I know which phrase we're talking about. One of my absolute favorite Opeth moments.
Oh! Oh! Oh! You would love "Smartfriend" by the Danish legends of djenty syncopation, Vola. That song stumped (or stomped) me for a long time. *Really* difficult to find (or at least keep) the downbeat on the man riff, it's only at the very end of the song that the drummer mercifully reveals it by adding a china. Great song!
At last someone who can explain what I used to feel but never had enough knowledge to explain it to anyone! Thank You! You are awesome!
You are so welcome!
I specifically memorized those two Opeth outros. Now I can airdrum them without messing up infront of my imaginary fans.
Speaking of rhythmic trickery, I'd love to see you do a video on "Goliath" by Karnivool
Checking this out!
Such a cool riff!
That HH is what is confusing. Man the HH has so much influence.
It's a 4 bar phrase, something like this:
3,3,3,5 x3
3,3,3,3
So kina like a 7/4 three times and a 3/4 or 6/8
"We are" by Karnivool blew me completely away. The song is completely in 4/4 and plays with 3 against 4 (3 half-note triplets against 4 quarter notes). The first few listen-throughs I heard it as a waltz (3/4 with snares on counts 2 and 3) with an early downbeat. So my perception was shifted by an eighth-note triplet behind the actual beat 1 and it totally worked. These guys are masters.
Goliath is 7/4, 7/4, 7/4, 6/4
H,H is simple on the beat crotchets.
The guitar (and partially the snare) is what throws people off.
Especially that first beat before beat 1 is a dotted quaver on the guitar.
All about the accents, basically exactly what this video was on, except Goliath has the added complexity of odd timing as well.
Here's an excellent break down of that song:
th-cam.com/video/dfoF88I-e7Q/w-d-xo.html
I always heard the snare on the first 2 in harlequin forest as 1 with pickup notes before or something; it's what I used as an anchor for steering wheel drumming. I guess that's why the riff seemed to end early at the very end
as always, it’s no secret just a matter of training your ear, you can always tell apart a musician who “feels” odd-times from those that simply count in their head, and memorize the rythms. All of the musicians in porcupine tree(gavin harrison in particular) and opeth fall into that first catagory, brilliant musicians, with good rythm, and good feel. Great video, I just thought I’d point out that in my opponion, as a drummer, there’s no secret, except maybe just listening to bands that play well in odd times, so that your ear begins to understand the time signature, based on having internalized the drum riffs, of guitar or whatever, it’s what we all do growing up, listening to 3/4, 4/4 etc. nobody needs to learn the “secret” to playing in 4, after years of hearing 4/4 music, and I guess that’s the point I’m trying to make. far too many musicians, and hobbiests try to emphasize the dificulty and prestige of odd- times, but at the end of the day, they’re not the players who do it best, and it’s just “gate keeping.”
Thanks Ben!
I actually wrote "secret" just to try and have a juicy title that's it. I agree with you on what you've said!
@@YogevGabay I understand completely! we all have our own interpretation, when it comes to something as abstract as music, as well. it was truly a great video. I guess I have just had some negative experiences with more hardcore drummers, and musicians in general, and I was commenting more to help other drummers who might feel discouraged as I once did, therefor I wasn’t criticizing your content, or you at all(just to clarify) lol.
@@caydespliff181 ahhh no no I didn't think you did that hahahahaha no worries! But music is super fluid, and from my experience, there's way more that I don't know over what I DO know so I try to be open for new stuff.
Deliverance outro is one of the grooviest thing I can play on drums. It did threw me of in the beginning in fact.
Yogev, I love your vids. Excellent work!
Bonnie the Cat is such a mindf*ck. Great video!
I don't even play any instruments and I've been watching all your Meshuggah videos. Loved them! Saw Opeth and clicked right away.
the information on this videos is amazing, can't thank you enough
Deliverance outro is definitely one of my favourites. It captivated me so hard when I first heard it. So much enjoyment from playing those in-between hits and rests. Then again Gavin Harrison is just the most exciting drummer ever to me. Sound of Muzak isn't that complicated rhythmically, but he makes it so lovely the way he chooses to put rhythms and cymbals and percussions to emphasize it.
Another song that does this is Goliath, by Karnivool. It's in 27/4 and the kick and snare move around the beat in a really cool way.
Cannot possibly go in time with Bonnie the Cat. My mind refuses.
I don't know... what the time... will be
NIN-Survivalism is a brilliant example of an upside down feel.
Thank you so much for your work, incredible!
I’m so glad TH-cam recommended me this video. I do not come across with this incredible content very often.
1:53 thanks
Join the club
oh my goodness, shifting the beat totally changed the feeling of the music for me
I can't believe it I just explained the saaame exact thing to my band mate guitarist 2 days ago (the accents). Algorhythm polyrhythm! I'm really glad I discovered this channel Mr Gabay! I knew I had to sub sooner or later xD
Well thanks man/!
Man, what a content!!
6:40 You read my mind. Great explanation.
Hahaha epic !
Wow, this is such an old video, It's even a bit cringe to see !!
@@YogevGabay Well, it was really helpful. Even if it's old 😁Thanks again and keep up your awesome work!
OUTSTANDING video! Bravo sir... this is brilliant. Thank you!!!!
Many thanks!
I love all of these videos, they're helpful and insightful. Keep it up!
in my experience, the only time I was really thrown off by this sort of thing was in the first iteration of the chorus in the song 'Melting City' by Between the Buried and Me
the drums play a kinda thrash/speed metal groove where one would expect the snare to hit the upbeats but when I heard the second iteration of the riff later on in the song (with a half-time groove this time), I realized that the snare actually falls on the upbeats the first time around
add to that the fact that the riff itself syncopates its first couple accents, and you get a free one-way ticket to Confusionville, NC
What a great video, thanks!
What a great lesson
oh man! more porcupine tree please. Love your channel
amazing video! thanks algorithm to bring me here
Not a musician, but fantastic content and presentation! Learnt something new and cool today!
Very cool video man, thanks! :D
Super Informative dude thanks
Gavin explains Bonnie the Cat in this video quite clearly: th-cam.com/video/XUA_n04C1bs/w-d-xo.html
ah, a man of culture I see
Sweet Jesus thank you! That riff in Harlequin Forrest has been mind fucking me for years!
THANK YOU!! Man... I feel (The daaaark -Opeth) sooo lost. -.-'
I understand all the theory! I know it, I'll explain it very easily but I can't see/hear it when I hear Opeth! Maybe that's why I like them so much... mysterious!!!
YOU ROCK !
Great video!
I actually knew all the songs on this video, and didn't know any song on the other videos ;]
Thanks for explaining these songs even though they're not polyrhythmic :)
So great as always 🌟🌟🌟
Another example of the porcupine tree style of rhythmic trickery is Radiohead’s videotape, particularly the version played on in rainbows
Oh yeah, that's another interesting one.
very cool! as always....and great music too!!
Is that a yt channel talking about opeth and porcupine tree
Pog pog
Nice video, cool table 😎
I swear I thought you were going to do Heir Apparent. It took me forever to figure out it wasn't polyrhythmic.
SUch a good song huh?
1:52 thank you :)
Loving the Johnny Cash shirt \m/
Got them all :)
What should we study if we had trouble following the accents as explained in this video? Any video recommendations?
Can you explain exactly what you mean? Which accents? The ones IN the songs?
@@YogevGabay I meant I had trouble identifying the accents in the drums. I'm curious if you have a recommendation for how to learn more about and get better at hearing rhythmic structure.
@@meteor09 Do you read music? I'd suggest learning to write rhythms down (if you don't know how yet) and starting to transcribing easier songs first.
@@YogevGabay ah, I see. I know the basics, I'll start there. Thank you
Hello Yogev. Your channel is amazing and full of great content! And check out Swiss musician Nik Bärtsch‘s Ronin. They play polyrhythmic Zen Funk.
Keep on going! 👍
Yo! I actually did an episode and an interview with him !
Check this out:
th-cam.com/video/J2Fwy4IvsYE/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/4BO6JcBs2GE/w-d-xo.html
🤟
Could Periphery's "Absolomb" also be an example?
The intro? yup !
I guess if you've never played classical, this is something else. This is hundreds of years old and common if you study.
Can you explain to the world how Shed by Meshuggah is in 4/4?
"This is you... You look terrible"
I knew deliverance's ending would be one of the songs lol, it always confuses the shit out of me
Thank you for doing this video. I think your audio track would be more pleasant if you didn't add the noisegate
Yeah the audio is terrible on my older vids, but I got a mic finally so now they're better!
*
A bit off topic but having watched your videos, I've started to think about Jethro Tull's song Rover. There is a strong 4/4 present but I feel it's not the whole thruth. Am I hearing something that's not there or am I on the right track?
Oh man I finally got to this song.
First of all, such a cool song!
It is 4/4, but they play with the internal groups so nicely that it sounds like something else.
Plus, the chorus has a short bar once in a while if I'm not mistaking. great song!
Simultaneous*
what about gojira remembrance outro?
One Steven Wilson song always throws me "Home Invasion: Regret Number 9" because the drums sound "wrong" somehow. Esp in the first few minutes. Is this an example of what you're talking about here?
th-cam.com/video/kaWPDIDA-cs/w-d-xo.html
Oh yeah this song is so good! and yes, it's 4/4 as well!
Forgive me Yogev, but shouldn't you call it not odd time signature??
To me, Deliverance is like the definition of polyrythm, since there are so many syncopated rythmic patterns going on at once.
It is of course not however played in an odd time signature, as it all can all be counted in 4.
what i don't get.... people watch your videos are obviously into that genre of music and are passionate time lords... but how would they not feel these ideas naturally? or maybe it's that they do and it's nice to have someone out there that also longs for thought. I just convinced myself why. nvm. keep on
Come to India will teach you rythms 😂😂😂😂
Do I Am Colussus!! PLS :D
What kind of rhythm's God are you?
#PRESSURE
These were easy to catch :p, but worth the detour ! Let's do it for Hidden Shadows from Herbie Hancock's Sextant (here -> th-cam.com/video/spnjTzuVBO0/w-d-xo.html)
Checking it out!
you are so handsome that I pay attention to what you say even though I don’t know what it means
Maybe I am just broken or something but these riffs are ok. It is not weird or nothing. They sound completely normal for me.
PS: I listen to prog metal on daily basis so maybe that broke me.
Dude please be honest, are you stoned?
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