I’m upset I’m main first curst in 2020 and I get 20kills plus I think u just can’t understand it you can rush in this this u have be pin point and midrange and u be insane truthfully I think it should be 2nd because it just not that many people don’t know how to use it effctive
Javier Corona and Zackery Harris although yes both your mentioned handcannons were amazing, I said in my opinion. I always preferred tlw and outgunned others with it
Mafo Koko Same too bad I keep getting fucking killed by wormwood😔 TLW was my go to since year 1 and I can't even beat the sidearms in a 1v1 point blank😂
Also, from what I can tell, Holtzmann is a strong believer in using what YOUR favorite gun is. Personally, Hawkmoon will always be my favorite gun. My best friend's baby is Thorn. He will love that gun until the day he dies. Just use what you're comfortable with and have fun :) No one is stopping you from using your preferred weapon of choice
exactly. these reviews are just my personal opinions. videogames are meant to be enjoyed however you see fit. dont let one dudes opinion dissuade you from using what you find fun!
I really enjoy your take, that is why I watch your vids. I dont live and die by your recommendations. TLW for me is a sure way to get killed, repeatedly. I keep trying to use TLW because of some bounty but I go back to my Mida and all is good again.
schradester8 so ill use my first curse on my hunter cus the gunslinger loadout i have and increased reload speed for it is op and my thorn for warlock with increased reload speed and last word on both
I left Destiny after Rise of Iron since I played on PS3, and man, I really, really miss hand cannons. No other game has managed to make me feel that main handgun experience. I had two excellent Imago Loops and an extremely good PVE Lord High Fixer. I really miss them.
Yeah, I know, but I decided not to buy it long ago, or at least, it is one of my lower priorities right now. I built a PC instead. It's sad I will miss Sony exclusive titles like Uncharted 4, Horizon Zero Dawn and The Last of Us 2(!!), but at least I can install mods.
Mcmilleee midnight coup actually can if you get rampage up to 3 but the ace of spades cannot unless they have 0 resilience. But ace is definitely better
I think adding bonus damage to the first curse perk would really make this weapon a meta weapon, so it can 2 tap headshot. Maybe to balance it make the rate of fire even longer when the perk is active.
chiggins I think I have to disagree, although a good idea I think that reliably two tapping is a hand cannon element bungie wants to forget. It also doesn't give the chance to proc triple tap as well which (even though it's useless in PvP) doesn't make for good perk symmetry.
chiggins for slow rate of fire handcannons they need to have a higher max range to ever become meta. Since HC range is capped at 62 maybe slow rof should be capped at 75. TFC should be able to push beyond that with its perks(since its an exotic built around range). Thats the only way i ever see slow ROF handcannons ever being balanced enough to see play withouy breaking them by making em 2 tap
J G its a good gun. This patch made it way better because of its perks mitigating the damage drop off. In ranges where palidrome needs two head shots and a body or 3 headshots first curse need one and 2 body...if that makes sense
zephyr theGREAT ranges where palindrome needs 2 headshots is pulse rifle range. Because honestly palindrome can achieve the 1 crit 2 body from some crazy distances Now Don't get me wrong I love the gun, it's just not practical in 99% of situations
I love my Hawkmoon about as much as Seto Kaiba loves the Blue-Eyes White Dragons. Makes sense since they both have a predominately silver colouration and have blue eyes (the two blue dots on the tip of the bits beside the sights for the Hawkmoon is where I see the eyes)
I think it should also be noted how amazingly accurate The First Curse is now. Also I feel like with the 94 impact hand cannons the rate of fire completely counteracts bloom. When you hipfire them the visual representation of the bloom cone you are given tightens back up all the way by the time it can fire again. I think I'm just too used to hand cannons from year 1 and having a little difficulty with recognizing where to expect how much damage falloff when picking engagements and with The First Curse I don't have to watch all that as much. Plus The First Curse is bae and this is the best it's ever felt :)
I fell in love with AoS when it was first released. She just feels so right in my hand and on my hip. I'd marry that gun. But it's my mistress, 'luna, that accompanies me in crucible. Although AoS is, imo, the best exotic hand cannon in terms of consistency and comfort, that damn animation has cost me many kills when switching between primary and special. With the new meta focussing more on primaries however, maybe she can make a comeback and take the place of Last Word in accompanying snipers. Given that at a distance you can afford to flip through that animation without losing the edge.
For me its Last Word and my Palindrome with Hot Swap, Hammer Forge and LitC. I find i have the most success if i use either of them with either the Wormwood or Trespasser and this was even before the Patch, i literally haven't had to change my play style so i feel really strong right now, i have a really good close quarters game on my Voidwalker, i just want them to un-nerf my regen perks.
I have no issue hitting headshots, i make full use of Hot Swap considering when I'm using my Palindrome I'm using Trespasser so its just a constant flow of accurate shots from both guns and luck in the chamber has saved me so much.
I remember you from the days of the destiny alpha and when you were in Planet Destiny, I absolutely miss year 1 memories and thank you being apart of it 🙌
Great video Patrick! I completely agree with you... unfortunately I would like for The First Curse to be higher up on the list, but it's rare of fire is just a little too slower to counter HRF Handcannons. But I still absolutely love using it, especially in 6's. I'm am however glad to see Last Word taken out of the number 1 seat and have Hawkmoon back in its rightful place. Thanks again for the great video, keep up the wonderful work!
I haven't used hand cannons very much since I started playing Destiny, but I'm having a blast with Hawkmoon right now. It's so satisfying when you get a kill with it and I find myself sometimes chewing through multiple people without dying. It's weird getting used to hand cannons, but I've been doing pretty well nonetheless. On a side note, this guy was tearing me up with Hard Light the other day. It kind of blew my mind.
I completely agree with your list. I've been using these lately to test them and we really came to a lot of the same conclusions on what to use on them and how good they are tier wise
I think that you got just about everything right besides ace of spades. I personally think the ace of spades is a very consistent primary if you can handle the recoil while using reinforced barrel
I’m so glad now. Hawkmoon was my first exotic and I shred face with it. I also got Ace of Spades as my second as a tribute to Caydes death, and they’re both excellent choices.
I just noticed if you don't completely press the trigger to shoot the hawk moon, the barrel roles and the slammer goes up and back down. I don't know if this works with any others but I found this pretty cool :D
Hey Patrick. I agree with this tier list completely. Keep up the good work! I would personally recommend Smart Drift Control + Perfect Balance on TLW because its range is so bad, even with Soft Ballistics. This allows for minimal recoil, which really helps fight against bloom. Also, Soft Ballistics reduces impact slightly (stat bar doesn't show this). Do you think a (very small) rate of fire buff would improve the effectiveness of The First Curse and other Hand Cannons in its archetype? I'm thinking of something similar to the low RoF Pulse Rifle change in 2.5.0.2. I would say buff their impact, but then they'd be better than Year 1 Thorn (at least, I think).
I love the first curse. It has a good enough stability to where it almost goes up and down. Its fire rate is slow enough that it almost feels like you don't have to pace shots. It's certainly not the best hand cannon in pvp (hawkmoon...), but it does surprisingly well in pve.
Hawk moon is the only year two exotic I have on this list and I love it. Thank you for telling me it is the best option. I have a decent eyasluna roll but I just like hawk on more baby. Plus the kaching when you hit one of those lucky shots on a dome is so satisfying
For ace of spades, if you use perfect balance then there is no kick. By the time you can shoot again after firing, the reticle is right back where it started.
I agree, I think the special ammo economy is perfect for normal cruci however with trials I love the idea snipers get 4 or 6 shot at the start of each round and no special spawning.
Not to mention that one buff a couple patches ago where low base range hand cannons get even less damage fall off and less bloom than the higher range ones.
Y1 Hawkmoon was a sniper rifle. It was almost a guaranteed kill with 2 shots at fantastic range. It was one of the few weapons that could beat Thorn in TTK at the time (with solid shot placement).
Great summary there. I can definitely agree with the order here. I just so wish that exotics would be exotic. The last comment about them being outclassed be legendary ones is just so sad.
I don't know if I agree with Thorn > Ace of Spades. The loss of stability from Reinforced Barrel is something that can be overcome with practice, and I believe that the extra range the Ace has over Thorn is really a strong selling point. Plus, it bothers me that an artifact can potentially neutralize the exotic perk of a gun and make it less efficient as a whole. Pre-nerf thorn? Yeah, I completely understand it being better than the Ace, but not the way it is now.
Why is the twirling animation a problem for Ace of Spades, but not for The Last Word? You know it doesn't add any time to readying, right? The twirl is affected by quick draw perks too.
I just got an Eyesluna which can get her stability increased up to 90! Tbh I always thought that stability was the most important - easier to control = easier to land follow up shots.
Never had a problem with reinforced on Ace to be honest, and I don't think the animation matters very much. My favorite hand cannon in the game and I seem to do best with it. Maybe just me, but much better than Thorn, close to Hawkmoon and in some situations better than The Last Word. In PvE, Ace is easily the best with The First Curse really close.
Actually using the twirly animation helps me out for real. Ace of spades has a really nice recoil pattern and it falls perfectly to where i can land headahot easy. I beat out hawkmoon in many cases.
Doesn't The Last Word have that same delay animation after you draw it before you fire it? I've encountered that a LOT in my pvp. It pizses me off sooo much especially with my chaperone quest step.
That death at 2:34 was kinda silly. The knife hits your enemy, and then waits a bit to actually do damage. By all means you should have survived that encounter if the knife damage calculated when it was supposed to. It looks like the Last Word and First Curse both do the same animation as Ace of Spades, though to be honest I'm not big on hand cannons so I haven't used either the Last Word or First Curse very often. Do they suffer from the same issue with Ace of Spades, in that you can't fire until the animation has completed (or would have completed if you interrupt it)?
Could you make a vid showing a comparison of the ballistics on Hawkmoon? It seemed like Aggressive ballistics had a lot of pull to the right compared to Field Choke.
I really like Hawkmoon but it just isn't as consistent for me as my godroll Luna and having an exotic open for special slot is more important with the current special economy. I am a Last Word user though and it's feeling pretty crispy to me post-patch.
I've really been enjoying my god roll ill will. It has rangefinder, luck in the chamber, rifled barrel, and I believe sureshot IS off the top of my head. It just feels so good, two taps people all the tap, never kills in more than three, and is the best weapon in the game for focused fire with your team on a single target. Amy time a game is going poorly I switch to it. It's the only weapon I have that I ALWAYS know I can do good with, it's my ol' reliable. I can do good with anything, but this is the most consistent for me.
I've said it before, I'll probably say it again: the slowest firing hand cannons need to be able to kill with two headshots guaranteed. If they can, due to the slow RoF, they're still balanced, because if you miss a headshot, even if you land a body shot, most players will probably be able to kill you with a faster firing weapon, unless they miss too, and you got the first shot.
Back in d1 I had no clue why but everytime I used the hawkmoon its perk would always activate as a finisher shot when I used it in the crucible. Everytime it was always the last finisher shot to kill someone. Maybe it because I was extremely lucky.
Personally I would order from worst to best: Thorn, Last Word, First Curse, Ace of Spades, Hawkmoon. However this is vastly due to personal preference. All of the statistics you detailed over each weapon are incontrovertible. The respective reasons for my choices are as follows: Thorn holds the bottom slot due to its recoil pattern and inconsistency while airborne as well as the fact that it feels less than comfortable to use. Again, it's subjective. Last Word is set at second to last purely due to its limitations as a close range weapon and its ineffectiveness against sidearms which are pivotal to current meta. Were it a legendary and could this be paired with Icebreaker it would undoubtedly hold second or even first place for me. First Curse, although suffering from a slower ttk than the others, is one that I became especially adept at using. Which brings up the Ace. The first exotic weapon I acquired and most comfortable handcannon to use imo. In the current meta especially the animation can be almost entirely eliminated due to lack of special ammo. Finally, as you said, the king is back and holds the top tier. Although I prefer other handcannons, due to my somewhat masochistic view that a gun should require suffering the development of skill to use, the hawkmoon undeniably has the best consistency, ease of use, and perk set for current pvp(of the exotics) Anyways..not looking to start a war of opinion, just contributing my 2 cents. As I said, with any weapon choice in a game with such variety, subjectivity is ultimately the deciding factor in potency.
See, The problem I find with TFC, is it doesn't feel right... It's supposed to be a super low rate of fire, super high impact handcannon, part of the problem is that it's mostly built around range, which is great, until you come to find that trying to range is hard in the crucible anyway, and yeah, being able to three shot someone from quite a distance away is great, but winning gunfights up-close is a lot harder with it, especially without consistently having special ammo, I know, a price you pay for range, but hear me out: To me, this handcannon feels like it should be capable of two shot precision kills, it's literally got the highest impact of any handcannon in the game (as far as I'm aware), it's precision damage in the crucible just feels like a cop out, leaving your opponent on a pixel of health, because Bungie doesn't want to go down the well of having two shot handcannons again... Meaning you might as well use that mid rate of fire handcannon, instead, cause you'll literally kill them just as quickly and effectively... And I hate to admit this cause TFC is my favourite handcannon, but it's literal issue is that it just doesn't do enough damage to be effective, which is for balance reasons. TL;DR It's a nice idea as a handcannon, but it's too powerful to actually make it work as it should in-game. Especially with the range it currently has.
The last word is literally my worst enemy. As in I suck as using that gun. But year 3 thorn made me appreciate hand cannons when I did really well in the crucible. I definitely want to give hawkmoon a go.
My list from good to not as good, because they are all very usable, is: hawk, ace, thorn, TLW, and first curse. Personally for me a medium rate of fire HC is always better though I would not argue TLW's niche utility and I have always had a thing for thorn. Unfortunately the first curse to me is just a really good PVE weapon and typically out played in the crucible by most other primarys in their optimal engagement range. A side note for thorn, in the right range using cover you can almost treat it like a medium rate of fire HC because of burn damage.
Honestly, I find it assuming how when the fix came for accuracy on HC, people use Hawkmoon a lot now. But I've rolled with it through the good times and bad. It will always be my favorite, no matter what bungie does to HC
I've really been enjoying my god roll ill will. It has rangefinder, luck in the chamber, rifled barrel, and I believe sureshot IS off the top of my head. It just feels so good, two taps people all the tap, never kills in more than three, and is the best weapon in the game for focused fire with your team on a single target. Amy time a game is going poorly I switch to it. It's the only weapon I have that I always know I can do good with, it's my ol' reliable.
I've found Ace of Spades is a "gunslingers" weapon...if you pair it with gunslinger's trance and have it active it hits like a truck and the recoil is negligible. Just my two cents
I got The Wail with God rolls to drop from the Future War Cult vendor and it's a monster in PVP. (But don't tell anybody!) I'll have to compare it to my Hawkmoon for final determination!
I’d say people would like last word up on number 1 it’s because we are talking about pvp and we all truly want a consistent hand cannon we don’t want to wait for a special perk to active in 13 shots
I think the best hand cannon is the Golden Gun. It one shots at any range and is in the middle archetype.
Kevin Brock not any range
Agreed and it takes down supers.
But it has 2 shot magazine or 3 that is a huge down side
Random Smile well you can shoot through people
Kevin Brock ikr best hunter exclusive hand cannon I one shot hammer of sol with it
"You can turn the video off now..." Lmao Patrick you still crack me up dude
da jez
Ye
Wtf why does this only have 13 likes
I’m upset I’m main first curst in 2020 and I get 20kills plus I think u just can’t understand it you can rush in this this u have be pin point and midrange and u be insane truthfully I think it should be 2nd because it just not that many people don’t know how to use it effctive
The First Curse is nice for strafe dueling in and out of cover (go out of ADS when not shooting)
CammyCakes Gaming Hey CammyCakes waz gud!!!
CammyCakes Gaming didn't expect cammy to be here, also love your new vid
CammyCakes Gaming aye what up cammy
One of my most used weapons since the patch. Absolutely love the feel of it, and high damage really promotes good team shots.
cam cakes.
Best hand canon is the warlock melee
Nutella JR that's not a hand cannon
LGcricket : It was a joke....
LGcricket : wym it's definitely a hang cannon
you mean hand sniper
{GS} Cman0422 I know. It is so op
Hawkmoon is sexy but TLW will always be the king imo
Zackery Harris actually thorn was the best,best known as the 2 shot sniper. it was so good It got the biggest nerf that made it crap.
Javier Corona and Zackery Harris although yes both your mentioned handcannons were amazing, I said in my opinion. I always preferred tlw and outgunned others with it
Mafo Koko Same too bad I keep getting fucking killed by wormwood😔 TLW was my go to since year 1 and I can't even beat the sidearms in a 1v1 point blank😂
Also, from what I can tell, Holtzmann is a strong believer in using what YOUR favorite gun is. Personally, Hawkmoon will always be my favorite gun. My best friend's baby is Thorn. He will love that gun until the day he dies. Just use what you're comfortable with and have fun :) No one is stopping you from using your preferred weapon of choice
exactly. these reviews are just my personal opinions. videogames are meant to be enjoyed however you see fit. dont let one dudes opinion dissuade you from using what you find fun!
I really enjoy your take, that is why I watch your vids. I dont live and die by your recommendations. TLW for me is a sure way to get killed, repeatedly. I keep trying to use TLW because of some bounty but I go back to my Mida and all is good again.
schradester8 I love first curse, don't care what people say.
let the hate flow in
schradester8 so ill use my first curse on my hunter cus the gunslinger loadout i have and increased reload speed for it is op and my thorn for warlock with increased reload speed and last word on both
Adrian Anderson fuck you that gun is trash
Jk I don't have it
1:58, what was that, a throwing knife kill, bungo pls nerf too op
Max Röder that's why people say this game is boring because of you and because of people say nerf this
i Pixulz It was obviously a joke dumbass
i Pixulz calm down I am pretty sure it was a joke on the previous throwing knife nerf
The Sentinel_SV you really don't understand sarcasm do you, I saw you take another sarcastic joke seriously before this on this very video, cmon dude.
Ikr throwing knives are so OP! Bungo really need to nerf blade dancers again!
best exotic hand Canon?
probably a tie between the vendor palindrome and the trespasser
J G trespasser isn't a hand cannon? Joke?
The Sentinel_SV You don't get jokes well do you?
trespasser has a lot of range . Just like how a while back a matador was called the mapador.
J G What do you mean? The Tresspasser is the only viable pulse rifle as of now.
J G the trespasser is a sidearm not a hand cannon
Pali / Luna with icebreaker feels pretty good, if you're missing TLW/ snipes.
It's kinda wild that I still get this in my recommend six years later lol.
I left Destiny after Rise of Iron since I played on PS3, and man, I really, really miss hand cannons. No other game has managed to make me feel that main handgun experience. I had two excellent Imago Loops and an extremely good PVE Lord High Fixer. I really miss them.
WeissM89 you can upgrade to ps4 :)
Yeah, I know, but I decided not to buy it long ago, or at least, it is one of my lower priorities right now. I built a PC instead. It's sad I will miss Sony exclusive titles like Uncharted 4, Horizon Zero Dawn and The Last of Us 2(!!), but at least I can install mods.
are you thinking about buying destiny 2? its coming to pc apparently
Hopefully.
WeissM89 well did you get d2?
Who knew that we would be saying that the ace of spades is godlike 1 year later 😂
midnight coup is better lol
Jud Grantham yea midnight can definitely 2 tap 👍🏽
Mcmilleee midnight coup actually can if you get rampage up to 3 but the ace of spades cannot unless they have 0 resilience. But ace is definitely better
@@Varr_0 cant it 2 tap with oem?
@@thomasjefferson2813 i think with any dmg buff
I think adding bonus damage to the first curse perk would really make this weapon a meta weapon, so it can 2 tap headshot. Maybe to balance it make the rate of fire even longer when the perk is active.
chiggins I think I have to disagree, although a good idea I think that reliably two tapping is a hand cannon element bungie wants to forget. It also doesn't give the chance to proc triple tap as well which (even though it's useless in PvP) doesn't make for good perk symmetry.
Tea is Good replace triple tap with range finder XD jk
chiggins for slow rate of fire handcannons they need to have a higher max range to ever become meta. Since HC range is capped at 62 maybe slow rof should be capped at 75. TFC should be able to push beyond that with its perks(since its an exotic built around range). Thats the only way i ever see slow ROF handcannons ever being balanced enough to see play withouy breaking them by making em 2 tap
chiggins hey I saw you in some other video forgot what it was
Maori_Inigma yeah I kinda spammed around to see what other people think of my idea
put the first curse in jasons hand it goes up to number 1
zephyr theGREAT but why though? it's not a good gun
he just has good aim
give him the palindrome and he'd probably be a god
J G its a good gun. This patch made it way better because of its perks mitigating the damage drop off. In ranges where palidrome needs two head shots and a body or 3 headshots first curse need one and 2 body...if that makes sense
zephyr theGREAT ranges where palindrome needs 2 headshots is pulse rifle range.
Because honestly palindrome can achieve the 1 crit 2 body from some crazy distances
Now Don't get me wrong I love the gun, it's just not practical in 99% of situations
J G cool
The Sentinel_SV yes obviously. your point?
This video was just recommended and it's depressing in destiny 2 how gross the handcannons are
Yeah, i miss my hawkmoon :(
Eric Oldgren I miss the last word
I really hope it makes a return
Revendigo YT your request was granted
Oof
@@ericoldgren2489 hey.
I love my Hawkmoon about as much as Seto Kaiba loves the Blue-Eyes White Dragons.
Makes sense since they both have a predominately silver colouration and have blue eyes (the two blue dots on the tip of the bits beside the sights for the Hawkmoon is where I see the eyes)
I think it should also be noted how amazingly accurate The First Curse is now. Also I feel like with the 94 impact hand cannons the rate of fire completely counteracts bloom. When you hipfire them the visual representation of the bloom cone you are given tightens back up all the way by the time it can fire again. I think I'm just too used to hand cannons from year 1 and having a little difficulty with recognizing where to expect how much damage falloff when picking engagements and with The First Curse I don't have to watch all that as much. Plus The First Curse is bae and this is the best it's ever felt :)
I fell in love with AoS when it was first released. She just feels so right in my hand and on my hip. I'd marry that gun.
But it's my mistress, 'luna, that accompanies me in crucible.
Although AoS is, imo, the best exotic hand cannon in terms of consistency and comfort, that damn animation has cost me many kills when switching between primary and special.
With the new meta focussing more on primaries however, maybe she can make a comeback and take the place of Last Word in accompanying snipers. Given that at a distance you can afford to flip through that animation without losing the edge.
Noktis Ackerman that won't happen only because it's hunter only
I feel you man. Try using quickdraw on the arcblade subclass. It speeds up the flip to almost instant and still looks kickass
For me its Last Word and my Palindrome with Hot Swap, Hammer Forge and LitC. I find i have the most success if i use either of them with either the Wormwood or Trespasser and this was even before the Patch, i literally haven't had to change my play style so i feel really strong right now, i have a really good close quarters game on my Voidwalker, i just want them to un-nerf my regen perks.
I have no issue hitting headshots, i make full use of Hot Swap considering when I'm using my Palindrome I'm using Trespasser so its just a constant flow of accurate shots from both guns and luck in the chamber has saved me so much.
I remember you from the days of the destiny alpha and when you were in Planet Destiny, I absolutely miss year 1 memories and thank you being apart of it 🙌
6:58 Hey that persons name is RWBYrose
You beat me to it!
I saw that on stream and was like "heh"
sp33dy f41c0n I like that profile picture!
Ryan Croy I do too, Blake best girl
Weiss is bae.
I feel like with the name and design, Ace oder Spades should have luck in the chamber
RocketmanFTW yeah totally agree, would be such a cool gun with its unique firefly perk combined with LitC
Or give the first shot absolutely no damage falloff
Maybe they do something like that for it in D2
@@sirmcdust5572 what do you know they actually did sort of
Great video Patrick! I completely agree with you... unfortunately I would like for The First Curse to be higher up on the list, but it's rare of fire is just a little too slower to counter HRF Handcannons. But I still absolutely love using it, especially in 6's. I'm am however glad to see Last Word taken out of the number 1 seat and have Hawkmoon back in its rightful place.
Thanks again for the great video, keep up the wonderful work!
I haven't used hand cannons very much since I started playing Destiny, but I'm having a blast with Hawkmoon right now. It's so satisfying when you get a kill with it and I find myself sometimes chewing through multiple people without dying. It's weird getting used to hand cannons, but I've been doing pretty well nonetheless. On a side note, this guy was tearing me up with Hard Light the other day. It kind of blew my mind.
I completely agree with your list. I've been using these lately to test them and we really came to a lot of the same conclusions on what to use on them and how good they are tier wise
I think that you got just about everything right besides ace of spades. I personally think the ace of spades is a very consistent primary if you can handle the recoil while using reinforced barrel
It feels good coming back to those videos ❤️
Lowest to Highest
1. First Curse
2. Ace of Spades
3. Thorn
4. SPACE COWBOY YEEHAWWW
5. Hawkmoon
I’m so glad now. Hawkmoon was my first exotic and I shred face with it. I also got Ace of Spades as my second as a tribute to Caydes death, and they’re both excellent choices.
I watched that stream, when you hit that rifled Luna it was so funny and then it basically kicked ass in PVP
The first curse is my absolute favorite hand cannon ever. though i don't really crucible.
Huh... never thought people would love the First Curse ever like I did... I hope something like that gun returns for Destiny 2; I LOVED that gun! :D
Also, the thorn has lingering damage, so if you die and shoot the guy, or enemy, that killed you, you could at least get an afterlife kill.
I just noticed if you don't completely press the trigger to shoot the hawk moon, the barrel roles and the slammer goes up and back down. I don't know if this works with any others but I found this pretty cool :D
as always Patrick, thanks for the pinpoint accuracy tech specs. Love podcast and keep up the good work.
Hey Patrick. I agree with this tier list completely. Keep up the good work!
I would personally recommend Smart Drift Control + Perfect Balance on TLW because its range is so bad, even with Soft Ballistics. This allows for minimal recoil, which really helps fight against bloom. Also, Soft Ballistics reduces impact slightly (stat bar doesn't show this).
Do you think a (very small) rate of fire buff would improve the effectiveness of The First Curse and other Hand Cannons in its archetype? I'm thinking of something similar to the low RoF Pulse Rifle change in 2.5.0.2. I would say buff their impact, but then they'd be better than Year 1 Thorn (at least, I think).
I love the first curse. It has a good enough stability to where it almost goes up and down. Its fire rate is slow enough that it almost feels like you don't have to pace shots. It's certainly not the best hand cannon in pvp (hawkmoon...), but it does surprisingly well in pve.
Hawk moon is the only year two exotic I have on this list and I love it. Thank you for telling me it is the best option. I have a decent eyasluna roll but I just like hawk on more baby. Plus the kaching when you hit one of those lucky shots on a dome is so satisfying
For ace of spades, if you use perfect balance then there is no kick. By the time you can shoot again after firing, the reticle is right back where it started.
Man I havent played since year 1. I miss this game. So hyped for Destiny 2
With the range on warlock melee is it considered a HAND CANNON?!
Hawkmoon also does give a satisfying appeal if you you get the 3 bonus damage round in order and especially if it happens on headshots
Good video and very insightful. Can you do this for legendary hand cannons as well?
I agree, I think the special ammo economy is perfect for normal cruci however with trials I love the idea snipers get 4 or 6 shot at the start of each round and no special spawning.
Not to mention that one buff a couple patches ago where low base range hand cannons get even less damage fall off and less bloom than the higher range ones.
Hawkmoon is def back! I haven't taken it off since Tuesday. Absolutely loving it.
Y1 Hawkmoon was a sniper rifle. It was almost a guaranteed kill with 2 shots at fantastic range. It was one of the few weapons that could beat Thorn in TTK at the time (with solid shot placement).
Is there any benefits to hit firing the last word? Other than having your radar? I noticed in your clip you were aiming down sights
Thorn still has some bite too it, Thank God. I love that gun and worked really hard to get it.
Great summary there. I can definitely agree with the order here.
I just so wish that exotics would be exotic. The last comment about them being outclassed be legendary ones is just so sad.
you know, I agree with your there bud. makes perfect sense. I myself am a big fan of the ace of spades but that's only cause of the firefly perk.
I tried to get The Last Word for 3 years, and finally got it today then saw this video in my recommended. Perfect 😊
I don't know if I agree with Thorn > Ace of Spades.
The loss of stability from Reinforced Barrel is something that can be overcome with practice, and I believe that the extra range the Ace has over Thorn is really a strong selling point.
Plus, it bothers me that an artifact can potentially neutralize the exotic perk of a gun and make it less efficient as a whole. Pre-nerf thorn? Yeah, I completely understand it being better than the Ace, but not the way it is now.
Why is the twirling animation a problem for Ace of Spades, but not for The Last Word? You know it doesn't add any time to readying, right? The twirl is affected by quick draw perks too.
I have not smiled more while playing in the crucible with my Hawkmoon since just before the Taken King dropped, now, I have my baby back!
I just got an Eyesluna which can get her stability increased up to 90!
Tbh I always thought that stability was the most important - easier to control = easier to land follow up shots.
The funny thing is, Hawkmoon was my first exotic. I got it back in my first run of Kings Fall.
I have the same list just switch last word and hawkmoon. I don’t know what it is but I tear it up with lw
I use ace of spades with steady hand IS and reinforced barrel and I find that it just as easy to use with perfect balance. great video btw
Never had a problem with reinforced on Ace to be honest, and I don't think the animation matters very much. My favorite hand cannon in the game and I seem to do best with it. Maybe just me, but much better than Thorn, close to Hawkmoon and in some situations better than The Last Word. In PvE, Ace is easily the best with The First Curse really close.
The way you keep the first perk active is to pair it with transversive steps
Actually using the twirly animation helps me out for real. Ace of spades has a really nice recoil pattern and it falls perfectly to where i can land headahot easy. I beat out hawkmoon in many cases.
Doesn't The Last Word have that same delay animation after you draw it before you fire it? I've encountered that a LOT in my pvp. It pizses me off sooo much especially with my chaperone quest step.
Welcome back, Hawkawesome. We've missed you
That death at 2:34 was kinda silly. The knife hits your enemy, and then waits a bit to actually do damage. By all means you should have survived that encounter if the knife damage calculated when it was supposed to.
It looks like the Last Word and First Curse both do the same animation as Ace of Spades, though to be honest I'm not big on hand cannons so I haven't used either the Last Word or First Curse very often. Do they suffer from the same issue with Ace of Spades, in that you can't fire until the animation has completed (or would have completed if you interrupt it)?
How do you have a sniper in the energy weapon slot?! Great vids
Could you make a vid showing a comparison of the ballistics on Hawkmoon? It seemed like Aggressive ballistics had a lot of pull to the right compared to Field Choke.
Aye glad to see that the three exotic hand cannons are back at the too just like year one!!!
i dunno, i think the extra range on first curse should push it higher. plus when you activate the perk it straight up turns into a sniper rifle.
I really like Hawkmoon but it just isn't as consistent for me as my godroll Luna and having an exotic open for special slot is more important with the current special economy. I am a Last Word user though and it's feeling pretty crispy to me post-patch.
I've really been enjoying my god roll ill will. It has rangefinder, luck in the chamber, rifled barrel, and I believe sureshot IS off the top of my head. It just feels so good, two taps people all the tap, never kills in more than three, and is the best weapon in the game for focused fire with your team on a single target. Amy time a game is going poorly I switch to it. It's the only weapon I have that I ALWAYS know I can do good with, it's my ol' reliable. I can do good with anything, but this is the most consistent for me.
I've said it before, I'll probably say it again: the slowest firing hand cannons need to be able to kill with two headshots guaranteed. If they can, due to the slow RoF, they're still balanced, because if you miss a headshot, even if you land a body shot, most players will probably be able to kill you with a faster firing weapon, unless they miss too, and you got the first shot.
when I took Hawkmoon out of the vault I had so much kill sprees I never had for a long time till now. except the part sidearms are the new shotguns :(
Low rate of fire HC's feel so good right now, definitely pick a First Curse if you don't have one already.
Back in d1 I had no clue why but everytime I used the hawkmoon its perk would always activate as a finisher shot when I used it in the crucible. Everytime it was always the last finisher shot to kill someone. Maybe it because I was extremely lucky.
i don't think i have gotten the hawkmoon yet, so the First Curse is still my favourite, especially in control with DoT grenades
Personally I would order from worst to best: Thorn, Last Word, First Curse, Ace of Spades, Hawkmoon. However this is vastly due to personal preference. All of the statistics you detailed over each weapon are incontrovertible. The respective reasons for my choices are as follows:
Thorn holds the bottom slot due to its recoil pattern and inconsistency while airborne as well as the fact that it feels less than comfortable to use. Again, it's subjective.
Last Word is set at second to last purely due to its limitations as a close range weapon and its ineffectiveness against sidearms which are pivotal to current meta. Were it a legendary and could this be paired with Icebreaker it would undoubtedly hold second or even first place for me.
First Curse, although suffering from a slower ttk than the others, is one that I became especially adept at using.
Which brings up the Ace. The first exotic weapon I acquired and most comfortable handcannon to use imo. In the current meta especially the animation can be almost entirely eliminated due to lack of special ammo.
Finally, as you said, the king is back and holds the top tier. Although I prefer other handcannons, due to my somewhat masochistic view that a gun should require suffering the development of skill to use, the hawkmoon undeniably has the best consistency, ease of use, and perk set for current pvp(of the exotics)
Anyways..not looking to start a war of opinion, just contributing my 2 cents. As I said, with any weapon choice in a game with such variety, subjectivity is ultimately the deciding factor in potency.
Been loving hawkmoon. Any legendarys worth trying other than palindrome and eyesluna?
See, The problem I find with TFC, is it doesn't feel right... It's supposed to be a super low rate of fire, super high impact handcannon, part of the problem is that it's mostly built around range, which is great, until you come to find that trying to range is hard in the crucible anyway, and yeah, being able to three shot someone from quite a distance away is great, but winning gunfights up-close is a lot harder with it, especially without consistently having special ammo, I know, a price you pay for range, but hear me out:
To me, this handcannon feels like it should be capable of two shot precision kills, it's literally got the highest impact of any handcannon in the game (as far as I'm aware), it's precision damage in the crucible just feels like a cop out, leaving your opponent on a pixel of health, because Bungie doesn't want to go down the well of having two shot handcannons again... Meaning you might as well use that mid rate of fire handcannon, instead, cause you'll literally kill them just as quickly and effectively... And I hate to admit this cause TFC is my favourite handcannon, but it's literal issue is that it just doesn't do enough damage to be effective, which is for balance reasons. TL;DR It's a nice idea as a handcannon, but it's too powerful to actually make it work as it should in-game. Especially with the range it currently has.
The last word is literally my worst enemy. As in I suck as using that gun. But year 3 thorn made me appreciate hand cannons when I did really well in the crucible. I definitely want to give hawkmoon a go.
Just started watching videos of D1 as I have never tried the game before nor have I watched anything D1 related. I have been missing out...
Also, your Throwing Knife accuracy mate. *insert googly eyes*
I've been using Hawkmoon and my Fulcrum with my Her Benevolence exclusively since the patch
Are you going to do this for the other weapons types? i.e Pulses, Auto Rifle....
I was lucky enough to get the firework perk for my Ace Of Spades and I love it, but mainly in PvE
Your hunter movement is beautiful. I wonder if that sun breaker quit after that battle.
My list from good to not as good, because they are all very usable, is: hawk, ace, thorn, TLW, and first curse. Personally for me a medium rate of fire HC is always better though I would not argue TLW's niche utility and I have always had a thing for thorn. Unfortunately the first curse to me is just a really good PVE weapon and typically out played in the crucible by most other primarys in their optimal engagement range. A side note for thorn, in the right range using cover you can almost treat it like a medium rate of fire HC because of burn damage.
Is a imago loop with sure shot is, range finder, rifled barrel and reactive reload good role?
awesome video patrick :) i always enjoyed your reviews , keep up the great work my friend !!
Hawk moon I feel is basically a hunter gun, but I do agree with it at top👍🏼
You and Datto have the best thumbnails.
If you had a year 1 hawk moon would it do less damage then the year 3 hawk moon because I have a year 1 hawk moon.
Just watched Shia randomly and boy has ace sure got an upgrade
Honestly, I find it assuming how when the fix came for accuracy on HC, people use Hawkmoon a lot now. But I've rolled with it through the good times and bad. It will always be my favorite, no matter what bungie does to HC
I've really been enjoying my god roll ill will. It has rangefinder, luck in the chamber, rifled barrel, and I believe sureshot IS off the top of my head. It just feels so good, two taps people all the tap, never kills in more than three, and is the best weapon in the game for focused fire with your team on a single target. Amy time a game is going poorly I switch to it. It's the only weapon I have that I always know I can do good with, it's my ol' reliable.
I've found Ace of Spades is a "gunslingers" weapon...if you pair it with gunslinger's trance and have it active it hits like a truck and the recoil is negligible. Just my two cents
1. First curse
2. Hawkmoon
3. Ace of Spades
4. Lastword (I hipfire only because reasons)
5. Thorn (I jump a lot)
the First Curse is still good for me
I got The Wail with God rolls to drop from the Future War Cult vendor and it's a monster in PVP. (But don't tell anybody!) I'll have to compare it to my Hawkmoon for final determination!
No mention of loner.rebel or TDYK?
Tsk.
I’d say people would like last word up on number 1 it’s because we are talking about pvp and we all truly want a consistent hand cannon we don’t want to wait for a special perk to active in 13 shots