While this may not directly apply to Gen 3 stuff, its quite helpful. The thought process, what desires should be considered an acceptable idle, the workflow, etc, is all much the same for any engine. Thanks for the great video!
Mate, thank you so much. I've been struggling trying to get my Commodore idling smoothly. Following your advice has finally enabled me to my car idling nicely. A quick question tho....are there any pids I can set up that are peculiar to density based tunes? I have a speed density patch applied so no MAF. Cam is 224/230 - 114 lobe sep with a 608 lift on both. Happy to chat offline if you like. Cheers again mate, love your work.
That is great to hear! Thanks for the feedback. I do not have any suggestions to change the logging/strategy for the SD patch at this time. I don't think any are needed. However, in a few months I will be doing some changes to my car and will be applying the enhanced OS as well. So if I uncover anything I will be sure to report it.
Thanks so much for this. My friend has a K5 Blazer with a cammed 6.0 swapped in and the idle programmed by his tuner was poor, tables didn't match . Dies when A/c is commanded etc. I''m gonna give this a shot. His final airflow minimum seems really low for a cam starting at 7.13g/s in 1st gear
Any chance you can help us E38/ gen 4 guys understand bust knock vs. Actual knock a little better? Secondly, do you understand the whole EIOT conundrum? You can't get any info that agrees with anyone else's idea of running this parameter. Please help!
burst knock is a predicted knock based on the airflow/cyl fill to remove timing before a actual knock event, usually disabled with boost as it removes timing alot because on the change in airflow, EOIT on gen4 is easy once u understand the tables, we discussed it quite a bit on the hptforum and there was a excel sheet made up to help visualize it, if u have overlap it does help and also gains torque in the mid areas also
I am little fuzzy on these tables. As best I understand them is: The torque table allows you to override the ECM's torque calculations under idle conditions. When you install a larger aftermarket cam, it will produce LESS torque at idle, so you must LOWER the torque values in your idle column(s). Drop them a few 1-2 ft-lbs at a time until idle seems happy. No need to do this to the entire table, just your idle and off idle columns. The high RPM negative torque values represent coast down (negative torque means RPMs will drop). The large positive torque values at really low RPM's represent idle adaptives kicking in to prevent the engine from stalling. I never changed the Step Up/Down tables, mine are still factory, but as I understand it , this is saying, once you tip in off idle, decay any throttle follower adjustments made from the ECM by these increments as the throttle increases. This would bring the follower down to zero and then remove it from the picture. This should just help to smooth off idle transitions. Again, these are my assumptions, and may not be totally correct. Most likely you could probably leave all these stock and be totally fine!
Lots of great info, definitely help me understand it a lot better!! I did notice I have a few different tabs on my HPtuners MPVI3, 2008 Avalanche. Thanks for the videos!!
Thank you for all the hours you've put into building these tools and videos. You are what/who the internet was meant to be. In E38 OS 12617631 the only channels available under the idle tab is "idle desired rpm". I've used looked through several other E38 OS's and they all seem to have the long list of channels that you have in your channel config. Do you know of a way to get the missing channels?
Wow thank you for the compliment! 12617631 from a vette, so I would think you should have access to all these parameters. Have you connected the scanner to the car and done a repoll for supported parameters? if that doesn't work, you might want to remove the files located c:\...Documents\HP Tuners\VCM Scanner\Vehicles\ (rename the file extension or copy to a different folder) and then do a repoll for supported parameters. This should pick them up. Otherwise you might want to reach out to HPT support.
No problem, my privilege to be in a position to do so. Education and your humble sharing of this knowledge is sincerely appreciated by many. I am new to your videos and appreciate your teaching style. Would you please instruct me how to download your filters and maths. I built a Yukon 2007 LS3/6L80E from scratch to match the 525hp Pace Performance engine and added many upgraded parts to the trans. I put this in my ‘91 Camaro and after much frustration with “tuners” not really knowing what they are doing I am finally full on making adjustments myself. Thanks again Roy
@@RoySatikasI am not sure what videos you have seen of mine...so...here is what I suggest... These are all tools, formulas, and info to help you on your quest. They kinda all work together. Watch them in this order. Each video description will have a link to my Google Drive with what you need to download. If you cannot get it to work, I will be happy to meet with you and walk you through what is needed. For the formulas you will either need to copy the XML file to you local HPT folder, or you can copy and paste the formulas into the Scanner Custom Math section. Dynamic Air: th-cam.com/video/xRZaTblSQ_0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Zbvfod3iSHibUXsi MAF: th-cam.com/video/ccF7pv1B-Xg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8bEAdkg4_RKkypUI VVE Tool Demo: th-cam.com/video/_Eiyy460C_k/w-d-xo.htmlsi=sFRhIfQO5eNVW_8b VVE Tool Updates: th-cam.com/video/nnA1rA5QQ7A/w-d-xo.htmlsi=4H2kO6A6Ijn3Nm5o EOIT Training: th-cam.com/video/Td6oC9CIUas/w-d-xo.htmlsi=46WXI6pB5BBDnOis EOIT Tool Demo: th-cam.com/video/4AHS5a3lqkQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=KRU2FOgtpgpCgUW9 O2 Sensor Tuning: th-cam.com/video/5hjzI8wSItk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=KB2oMxzKpUTXpl-k
one i have noticed is with the ''torque follower'' table, this helps with the return to idle mostly with decent camshafts as they raise the MAP value for idle so u go from say 35kpa to sometimes 65+kpa and the reported torque raises so then the previous idle torque value usually in the 0-30mn can be up in the 50-80nm so a return to idle after a throttle blip then is in error against the adaptive when it still wants to pull it down to the lower torque value, getting the idle torque value back to the factory reported value then helps it all out as well, also a little nugget most may not know is that the main spark table in the idle area can be a limit to the idle spark corrections, always have the main spark values at least 10 deg higher then the idles spark values so it gives u 10 deg of correction if u need it in the adaptive, im not sure if its selected gen4 ecu's or most of them but just keep that in mind if ur trying to lower spark and its not working, i noticed that way back when everyone was told to make those values match between tables for a smoother transition but i then noticed adaptive spark wasnt removing the commanded amount
That is good stuff! Allow me to restate this so I can be sure I understand... Big cam = less vacuum = higher MAP value = ECM thinks more torque is being made at idle Idle Spark Min Value = controlled by Min. Final Spark Table Idle Spark Max Value = controlled by Hi/Lo octane spark tables I will admit the torque follower table always confuses me, maybe you can help? Does the torque follower replace virtual torque at idle, or is it an adder?
@@SilverSurfer77 yes bigger cam will raise the map value for idle which affects the virtual torque and thus follower torque, best way is to correct it in the VTT or u can adjust the follower torque to suit the reported new torque tables, i dont think there is a min spark limit i only think there is the added spark limit of the main spark related to the values in the table, so idle spark table idle area say 14 deg and the main spark idle area if it were 20 deg it will only add 6 deg to help a low idle error no matter the value in the adaptive spark table if they were higher then the 6 deg but a lower correction 1-6 deg would work as normal, or yes the min final spark is a limit to all spark i think it is referenced against the virtual torque for a throttle movement back to idle, the more accurate it is to the idle torque value and surrounds the better it returns to idle, usually i see what the stock idle torque value is and then try to get that back using the virtual torque after a camshaft is fitted, the airmass is usually pretty constant but the map is the big changer based on camshafts
You have provided the community with an incredible amount of insight to the software capability even for a seasoned professional Like myself. I suspect you have a specific channel list to go along with the Graph and layout.?
@@JANNETTYRACING wow thank you for the compliment, it means a lot coming from you! Since you asked, I have dropped my E38 channels list in my google drive share (video description has the link to it).
![[UNCUT] “บอสณวัฒน์” ลากไส้!! ใครหนุนหลัง "แม่ตั๊ก ป๋าเบียร์" I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 30 ก.ย. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QlD7mU2KKRk/mqdefault.jpg)
While this may not directly apply to Gen 3 stuff, its quite helpful. The thought process, what desires should be considered an acceptable idle, the workflow, etc, is all much the same for any engine. Thanks for the great video!
Thank you
Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. I look forward to more info on EOIT and whatever else you choose to share with us.
Mate, thank you so much. I've been struggling trying to get my Commodore idling smoothly. Following your advice has finally enabled me to my car idling nicely.
A quick question tho....are there any pids I can set up that are peculiar to density based tunes? I have a speed density patch applied so no MAF. Cam is 224/230 - 114 lobe sep with a 608 lift on both. Happy to chat offline if you like. Cheers again mate, love your work.
That is great to hear! Thanks for the feedback. I do not have any suggestions to change the logging/strategy for the SD patch at this time. I don't think any are needed. However, in a few months I will be doing some changes to my car and will be applying the enhanced OS as well. So if I uncover anything I will be sure to report it.
Thanks so much for this. My friend has a K5 Blazer with a cammed 6.0 swapped in and the idle programmed by his tuner was poor, tables didn't match . Dies when A/c is commanded etc. I''m gonna give this a shot. His final airflow minimum seems really low for a cam starting at 7.13g/s in 1st gear
Hope this helps!
Thanks for the big sacrifice. Hopefully the wifey won't make you go do shopping and Saturday markets. Awesome video yet again.
Lol
Again thanks mate :). Best of the best.
Any chance you can help us E38/ gen 4 guys understand bust knock vs. Actual knock a little better? Secondly, do you understand the whole EIOT conundrum? You can't get any info that agrees with anyone else's idea of running this parameter. Please help!
Tuning not *running, sorry. Damned auto spell...
I have added this to my video backlog list. Thanks for the input!
burst knock is a predicted knock based on the airflow/cyl fill to remove timing before a actual knock event, usually disabled with boost as it removes timing alot because on the change in airflow, EOIT on gen4 is easy once u understand the tables, we discussed it quite a bit on the hptforum and there was a excel sheet made up to help visualize it, if u have overlap it does help and also gains torque in the mid areas also
Can you explain the Gen IV e38 throttle follower table? Torque/airflow step up/airflow step down
I am little fuzzy on these tables. As best I understand them is:
The torque table allows you to override the ECM's torque calculations under idle conditions. When you install a larger aftermarket cam, it will produce LESS torque at idle, so you must LOWER the torque values in your idle column(s). Drop them a few 1-2 ft-lbs at a time until idle seems happy. No need to do this to the entire table, just your idle and off idle columns. The high RPM negative torque values represent coast down (negative torque means RPMs will drop). The large positive torque values at really low RPM's represent idle adaptives kicking in to prevent the engine from stalling.
I never changed the Step Up/Down tables, mine are still factory, but as I understand it , this is saying, once you tip in off idle, decay any throttle follower adjustments made from the ECM by these increments as the throttle increases. This would bring the follower down to zero and then remove it from the picture. This should just help to smooth off idle transitions.
Again, these are my assumptions, and may not be totally correct. Most likely you could probably leave all these stock and be totally fine!
Lots of great info, definitely help me understand it a lot better!! I did notice I have a few different tabs on my HPtuners MPVI3, 2008 Avalanche. Thanks for the videos!!
Another Awesome video, thanks brother!
Big thanks homie
You are welcome!
Thanks again mate. This video will be very helpful for me when i get some balls and cam my car .
Lol you can do it!
Appreciate your video
Thank you for all the hours you've put into building these tools and videos. You are what/who the internet was meant to be.
In E38 OS 12617631 the only channels available under the idle tab is "idle desired rpm". I've used looked through several other E38 OS's and they all seem to have the long list of channels that you have in your channel config.
Do you know of a way to get the missing channels?
Wow thank you for the compliment! 12617631 from a vette, so I would think you should have access to all these parameters. Have you connected the scanner to the car and done a repoll for supported parameters? if that doesn't work, you might want to remove the files located c:\...Documents\HP Tuners\VCM Scanner\Vehicles\ (rename the file extension or copy to a different folder) and then do a repoll for supported parameters. This should pick them up. Otherwise you might want to reach out to HPT support.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Support Ticket is submitted.@@SilverSurfer77
Awesome job instructing, thanks for all your time and effort
I appreciate the support!
Thanks!
WOW! I am humbled by your generosity! Thank you so much!!!
No problem, my privilege to be in a position to do so. Education and your humble sharing of this knowledge is sincerely appreciated by many. I am new to your videos and appreciate your teaching style. Would you please instruct me how to download your filters and maths. I built a Yukon 2007 LS3/6L80E from scratch to match the 525hp Pace Performance engine and added many upgraded parts to the trans. I put this in my ‘91 Camaro and after much frustration with “tuners” not really knowing what they are doing I am finally full on making adjustments myself.
Thanks again
Roy
@@RoySatikasI am not sure what videos you have seen of mine...so...here is what I suggest...
These are all tools, formulas, and info to help you on your quest. They kinda all work together. Watch them in this order. Each video description will have a link to my Google Drive with what you need to download. If you cannot get it to work, I will be happy to meet with you and walk you through what is needed. For the formulas you will either need to copy the XML file to you local HPT folder, or you can copy and paste the formulas into the Scanner Custom Math section.
Dynamic Air: th-cam.com/video/xRZaTblSQ_0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Zbvfod3iSHibUXsi
MAF: th-cam.com/video/ccF7pv1B-Xg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8bEAdkg4_RKkypUI
VVE Tool Demo: th-cam.com/video/_Eiyy460C_k/w-d-xo.htmlsi=sFRhIfQO5eNVW_8b
VVE Tool Updates: th-cam.com/video/nnA1rA5QQ7A/w-d-xo.htmlsi=4H2kO6A6Ijn3Nm5o
EOIT Training: th-cam.com/video/Td6oC9CIUas/w-d-xo.htmlsi=46WXI6pB5BBDnOis
EOIT Tool Demo: th-cam.com/video/4AHS5a3lqkQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=KRU2FOgtpgpCgUW9
O2 Sensor Tuning: th-cam.com/video/5hjzI8wSItk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=KB2oMxzKpUTXpl-k
one i have noticed is with the ''torque follower'' table, this helps with the return to idle mostly with decent camshafts as they raise the MAP value for idle so u go from say 35kpa to sometimes 65+kpa and the reported torque raises so then the previous idle torque value usually in the 0-30mn can be up in the 50-80nm so a return to idle after a throttle blip then is in error against the adaptive when it still wants to pull it down to the lower torque value, getting the idle torque value back to the factory reported value then helps it all out as well,
also a little nugget most may not know is that the main spark table in the idle area can be a limit to the idle spark corrections, always have the main spark values at least 10 deg higher then the idles spark values so it gives u 10 deg of correction if u need it in the adaptive, im not sure if its selected gen4 ecu's or most of them but just keep that in mind if ur trying to lower spark and its not working, i noticed that way back when everyone was told to make those values match between tables for a smoother transition but i then noticed adaptive spark wasnt removing the commanded amount
That is good stuff!
Allow me to restate this so I can be sure I understand...
Big cam = less vacuum = higher MAP value = ECM thinks more torque is being made at idle
Idle Spark Min Value = controlled by Min. Final Spark Table
Idle Spark Max Value = controlled by Hi/Lo octane spark tables
I will admit the torque follower table always confuses me, maybe you can help?
Does the torque follower replace virtual torque at idle, or is it an adder?
@@SilverSurfer77 yes bigger cam will raise the map value for idle which affects the virtual torque and thus follower torque, best way is to correct it in the VTT or u can adjust the follower torque to suit the reported new torque tables,
i dont think there is a min spark limit i only think there is the added spark limit of the main spark related to the values in the table, so idle spark table idle area say 14 deg and the main spark idle area if it were 20 deg it will only add 6 deg to help a low idle error no matter the value in the adaptive spark table if they were higher then the 6 deg but a lower correction 1-6 deg would work as normal, or yes the min final spark is a limit to all spark
i think it is referenced against the virtual torque for a throttle movement back to idle, the more accurate it is to the idle torque value and surrounds the better it returns to idle, usually i see what the stock idle torque value is and then try to get that back using the virtual torque after a camshaft is fitted, the airmass is usually pretty constant but the map is the big changer based on camshafts
Great video
You have provided the community with an incredible amount of insight to the software capability even for a seasoned professional Like myself. I suspect you have a specific channel list to go along with the Graph and layout.?
@@JANNETTYRACING wow thank you for the compliment, it means a lot coming from you! Since you asked, I have dropped my E38 channels list in my google drive share (video description has the link to it).