It always amazes me that for decades things have worked perfectly, then comes along some bright spark who decides to make something simple more complicated, and in the process bring complexity and problems to something that has always worked fine?
My thoughts exactly. I am still not convinced it is actually helpful or intentionally creating more service needs. I am not a mechanic therefore did a little digging and still don't understand why we actually need this "improvement". The argument I found was that modern cars are more powerful and normal clutch can't handle that. Errmm... My son has a 1.4l petrol engine with DMF... I am pretty sure that my 1.6i sports car was way more powerful 20 odd years ago and that had regular flywheel. I just knew how to use the clutch? Confused...
@@Cheepchipsable Common rail Diesels = big torque spikes. Traditional spring damped clutch plates (people like to forget this) no longer provide enough damping.
Try driving a diesel that has several hundred pounds of feet of torque below 2000rpm and can pull a 36mph per 1000rpm 6th gear from as low as 1200rpm. The dual mass absorbs the movement that occurs each time a cylinder fires at very low rpm. This movement would bottom out a standard clutches springs straight away or they would need to be stiff enough that the gearbox would have to absorb the pulses instead. As engine speed increases this disappears. If you only drive over 2000rpm or so you can get away without one but surely that defeats the point of buying a very modern Diesel engine with all that low end in the first place.
But its not that simple is it, put a SMF on a modern diesel, good luck driving that bitch at less than 1500 rpm, cos it will judder like a male dog smelling an in heat bitch. It smothes out the power strokes and there worth there weight in gold. The piss take with them is they could easily be made to last the life of the car, and you can get aftermarket jobs that will do the life of the car, my A3 has 220,000 miles on the clock (BKD) and the flywheel is now on its forth clutch and still rock solid, yes, it cost me more than a grand to buy, but there £300 each for OEM ones and HAVE to be done with the clutch, so its £1000 for OEM, every 50,000 miles or so, or £1000 upfront, and £200 clutches every 50,000 miles. Had the same on my Focus CMAX DM02, 350,000 miles before it went to scrap, DMF had more clutches than a hooker does clients on a friday night in soho.
It’s a good explanation! A lot of shops will say it’s a bad bearing if they don’t know much about dual mass flywheels and they suggest replacing the whole trans! When I’m reality, it’s just a dmf.
Great explanation of the VW DMF failure. I had signs of DMF problems in my MK1 Seat Leon ASZ 1.9TDI (MK4 Golf), it started with a grinding feeling when the clutch plate engaged, but also a 'chattering' noise at the point of flywheel to clutch engagement. Ended up fitting a stronger clutch plate and single mass flywheel, it was well worth doing. Yes there was increased noise and vibration at lower revs, but not something you would notice unless looking for it, none of my passengers ever questioned the noise. Changing the clutch and flywheel took around 6 hours on a gravel driveway with a pair of axle stands and trolley jack. Certainly a DIY job for those with time and basic tools. (And the willingness to give it a go). That car has been scrapped now, but it did 202000 miles whilst the body and subframe deteriorated around it. In the end I had to get rid of it because getting it through an MOT here in the UK was going to cost too much in parts alone for a tatty car. The engine and gearbox.... Not started in 4 months yet cranked strongly straight away when someone came to take it off me. Thankfully the engine and possibly gearbox live on inside someone's MK4 Golf 😁
Had a severe failure on an ARL Seat Leon 1.9. Rattle on shutdown. Ran fine for a minute, then noticed the gearstick violently shaking back and forth and the vehicle making extremely unusual sounds as it tried to shake itself apart. I found multiple hot spots on the dual mass. That much play I'm surprised it was still in one piece. And finally, a hole in the bottom of it with something poking out. Surprisingly there was no damage to anything on the engine or the gearbox
One of the main reasons a DMF is there is to absorb vibration and kick from the engine before it gets to the transmission. DMFs provide a dampener for your transmission and enable manufacturers to produce lighter and less robust transmissions. That translates to cheaper lighter and weaker. Fitting a SM flywheel is more likely to knock out a bearing or damage another transmission component rather than damage the engine
I've just replaced the DMF and clutch on my 2008 Golf Mk5 TDI. My clue that there was a problem was a rattling/grinding noise at idle - not as bad as in HM's video, but definitely there; it sounded like it was coming from somewhere deep in the engine bay, and it went away when you pressed the clutch pedal. I used a mechanic's stethoscope to confirm it was coming from the transmission. It's a pretty straightforward job to replace it, it's mainly just time-consuming, although I was completely unprepared for how heavy the transmission was and while I was able to use gravity to get it out, it was impossible for me to bench-press it back in while laying on my back. I had to call a mobile clutch guy just to wrestle the box back in for me. FWIW, from the point of originally noticing the noise to actually fixing it took over a year. The car is my daily and drove just fine in that time. When I got the old DMF out, it wasn't *that* loose; I was expecting it to be in a much worse state than it was.
You are epic! I’ve got a VW Passat 06 and have heard this noise for ages. I thought it was probably to do with the clutch as when I depress the clutch the noise goes away ta-dah. That video you play at 2:29 is the EXACT noise coming from under my engine. Now I know what the issue is I can do some research before going in blind to a mechanic. Thank you!!
No it's completely wrong! I used to be a plant manager of the company that invented them (luk) and I guarantee this is wrong! The dual mass fly wheel is a torsional damper.
Great vid! I have an '03 GTI VR6 with almost 150K miles on it, that has been vibrating a lot lately, and not shifting crisply/smoothly. It was just diagnosed with a damaged DMF and probably worn clutch. It amazes me that after 22 years of ownership as my daily driver, that the DMF and clutch lasted this long! Yes, the car has been garaged & 'babied' all these years, and maintained well, and driven normally (rarely aggressively). I've never changed the 6-speed manual transmission oil though. So even though i've had 22 year old oil in the gearbox, the transmission has held up nicely. Anyway, a local well respected garage that specialized in Euro cars, especially German, quoted me $1950 for the job, and they're putting in a SMF. The engine is perfect, so I could probably get another 10 to 20 years out of it, I figure!
Been searching for a few days on this problem, that's the exact same noise that has stated in my Passat b5 DSG, ive got a added squeel when deaccelerating, gave me certainty on what part to buy, thank you 👍
I bought my GTI new and the dual mass flywheel went out at 54K miles. I'm mechanically inclined and can fix most anything on a car. I skipped the warranty and replaced it with a one piece flywheel because I had intentions to do an APR flash. In the end, I decided against the APR flash as my car is plenty quick for me. I have 113K on my GTI on the original engine and the only other problem I had was the intake manifold needed replace. $170 for a new intake and I cleaned the intake valves while I was at it. My car has been great other than these two things.
Had this happen on my last two VW-based cars, a SEAT Leon TDI (based on a Mk4 Golf) and a VW Sharan, the latter actually destroyed the whole gearbox. Both cars had over 100,000 miles on them. I replaced the SEAT's with a SMF and I really couldn't notice any difference in vibration. These days I drive an automatic Mercedes...
I've been driving manual transmission cars and trucks all my life (61' bug, 65' mustang, 59' chevy fleet side, and currently a 2014 taco) and always thought smooth engagement was up to the operator! Never had chatter problems or longevity issues. Sound like DM flywheels are another way to up the price of repairs to me. Really!
4 cylinder diesels in audis like 1.9tdi vibrate quite a bit, it is good having a dual mass. I had two 1.9tdi’s one with dual mass and one without it Imo worth it Although a lighter flywheel would be better for perfomance
One of the reasons for dual mass 'technology' is to prevent deterioration of gearbox components, many of which are now plastic or composites..so the DMF is meant to help prevent those components from failures...However, as I contemplate the replacement of my DMF on my VW LT35 (not available in North America butt basically a Merc Sprinter) I also note the very expensive replacement kits, as mentioned by Charles. 'Stealerships' will charge well over 1500-00 Pounds for replacement, including parts...You can easily find LT35's for sale or being stripped because these parts make them uneconomic to repair..Shame really, they are decent vans.
not every operator is going to super smooth with the gear changes the dmf also increases transmission life and is cheaper to replace than a broken transmission. I have seen cars converted to SMF and the transmission went out after a few months
My 07 Audi needs a clutch job, mechanic quoted $1900 CDN for the DMF. Found that LuK sells them for $650 CDN. Now just got 9 hours of labor to save for.
I actually ended paying the mechanic a total of aprox 3500$(in Norway) for replacing clutch + dmf. I was thinking of getting a smf but was warned against it and they then told me that the vibrations in a smf would wear out the transmission/gearbox way faster, do you know if this is true? Great video btw, keep up the good work.
My nissan almera 2.2 diesel DMF went after 40000 miles!! replaced with SMF 24 years later and nearly 300000 miles on the clock slightly more rattley not one fault and still going strong and my wallet is bigger!!
149,000 miles on my '06 Ibiza 1.9 PD and the DMF has just started to knock. They can last a decent amount of time if you drive the car in a certain way, ie. not lugging the engine at low RPMs, not holding the car on an incline with the clutch instead of the brakes, not dropping the clutch hard and not pulling away without bringing the revs above ~1100-1200RPM
in east Europe are some good shops that rebuild them (if the damage is not definitive) by resurfacing , balancing , replacing the springs, etc. this is not possible for all models , it depends of the spare parts , quite hard to find. the cost is around 180 $ / unit.
Exactly if you don't take care about the first simpthoms like vibrations after replace the dual mass flywheel by the cheap one (single mass) that's it will be whole transmission &transaxle assembly and the rear differential damage, I know it by own experience...
I just finished installing a Stage 2 clutch kit with single mass flywheel in. MKV GTI. Yes, the DMF was comfy and quiet, but the SMFW is MUCH more fun to drive. Single mass for me any day, even with all of the chatter sounds.
Brigand253 I’ve got a MK4 V5 and will be replacing front shocks next week. I have an old VR6 SMF knocking about which I think will fit. Worth the work/money on a new clutch to change whilst I am down there?
My 2012 GTi wouldn't go into gear one night. Turns out the clutch failed. With only 47K miles on it!! I find this rather shocking as my previous car was an '04 Golf TDi with 148K miles at trade in for this car.......it was on the OEM clutch still. I can drive rather fast at times and tend to downshift all the time. But still it isn't like I'm riding the thing or not matching RPM. But FFS 47K miles?!? So, the OEM parts were some $1400.....said nuts to that....had them install a stage 2 kit with Teflon. Hopefully this one will last a bit longer! Thanks for the video man! I'm going to watch the rest of your VW series for sure!
It's been six years since you posted this video, want to brush up and come change mine for me? lol. All seriousness though, I've been trying to figure out what this sound was on my '11 A3 TDI and found this video. Thank you very much for the info!
Same😢 @humblemechanic I know this vid is like half a decade old lol, but maybe you could shed some light on replacing the DMF with a SMF in DSG MK6 Golf R?
Wow mine just went as soon as I press the clutch in slightly it starts knocking really distinctive and very embarrassing whilst waiting at the traffic lights next to a school 😩 Just took it into my local dealer Syed top man charged me £630 better than what I expected.. Great video thanks
I am experiencing the exact same issue with my Audi b8 2009. Been driving it over a year like this because Audi insiders told me that if I wait for it to break, the repair cost will be the same as instant replacement. But if you say it might damage the transmission... I will be contacting some mechanics and ask for a price estimate for single mass flywheel.
Hey Charles, are the DMF failures more prevalent on the MK5 TDIs or the MK5 2.5 gas engines? I see tons of youtube failures on the TDIs only. I am suspecting this dual-flywheel wear stems from the TDIs low end torque coupled with spirited stop and go driving. I've never heard of a single mass flywheel failing BEFORE a clutch failing.
My old dmf started squeaking and cherping at idle thought a family of birds where nesting in the bell housing it would make a rattle when the clutch was half down, eventually it rattled all the time, wasn't really that worn when I took it out, but loose enough to rattle, they are an awful design and designed to fleece the customer even more never hear anything good about dmfs designed by dickhead, I changed it to single mass flywheel conversion.
Let me tell you my story with VW flywheel failures. I am from Bulgaria, EU member state. I own VW Polo 1.4 TDI 90 hp 2014. It had the same noises as in your video, so I decided that I'm gonna change the flywheel. My uncle is a car mechanic and I brought the car to him. When we dismounted the flywheel we started to search it by its catalog number (04B105264B) in the local car parts dealers with no success. After some time spent in researching the issue I found that this part is not available in any car part dealer in the country and EU as a whole. It seems that VW had been having an action to replace the DMF for this particular model (including 75 and 105 hp modifications, it's the same 3 cyl. engine) with SMF kit but I had not know this at the time. Finally I found that a Polish company recycles old failed flywheels. I also found that there is a single mass clutch kit available in a car parts dealer from the Netherlands. Interesting fact for the SMF clutch kit is that it includes right drive shaft which should be replaced. The new shaft is thicker than the original one. But replacing the DMF with a single one *probably* includes re-programming of the ECU, which I'm not sure we can do on our own. So basically I have 2 safe options now - buy recycled flywheel (400 euros for the part and the delivery) or bring the car to VW (2000 euros) for replacing with single mass clutch kit.
Great video mines gone and going to give it a go. Just remembering where the nuts and bolts go. Will put back bolts/nuts after removal if possible, and mark the rest.
Omg thank you for this video I have looked everywhere for a example of the noise I get and your video showed me exactly the noise I am getting I have an Astra two top and I was so scared it was the dreaded m32 gearbox failure. I have that exact noise when the car is idle but if I press the clutch down it dissapears
They say DMF protects transmission. On the other hand, second hand transmission is a lot of cheaper than a DMF. Just of curiosity, did you switch to SMF and how it performed?
I have MKV Golf 2.0 TDI with 220,000 km's without service record. I bought it at 210,000 km's and it had bad noise in upper right region of engine cover,when you press clutch it almost goes silent,I made 10,000 km's meanwhile and now there is almost no noise. Few mechanic said that DMF is going to fail but there isnt noise anymore,no changes on clutch,only get vibrations at idle. Recently local mechanic only tightened one hose which made terrible noise,otherwise no change were done to car.
There's also, of course, the advantage of weight and resulting increase of moment of inertia, although that's probably not a big enough advantage compared to the NVH increase for a daily driver.
***** Agreed, I wouldn't go so far as to say lightened flywheels unless it's a track car but if mine broke I'd definitely go SMF especially for fast road use, comfort is not something I care about most in my cars, within reason of course. maybe when I'm old... but by then everybody will probably have EVs anyway and definitely no manuals :s.
If you dont mind a little noise at low RPMs, get a SM fly wheel. The SM fly wheel makes more chatter because is has no dampeners are is typically lighter. However, if you dont mind a little noise and a stiffer clutch, get one. The thing will last you forever and never fail because their is now extra moving parts, just one hunk of metal. Plus its cheaper.
+HumbleMechanic Part of the benefit of the DMF is that it reduces peak stress in all the components around it. Replacing with SMF increases the likelihood of crank shaft failure, especially on common rail engines designed with only DMF use in mind. It doesn't seem to be an issue on PD and older engines. To get the best life from a DMF never let the engine labour at low RPM and even though a DMF makes it feel acceptably smooth, always release the clutch slowly rather than dropping it in suddenly after gear changes. Driven like this the DMF should last as long as the clutch.
+Voss2120 Watch the LUK explanation video. Cars designed for DMF should use a DMF. The single mass will wear out other components that were not designed for it.
ErikThePieMan explain to me why it should fail with a smf. As long the weight is the same in total why would it fail. By the way engines are internally balanced aswell. Is this just a way to drive more comfortable with a diesel car instead of the juddering like before. And it costs too much this part. I could easily buy a spare tdi engine with the cost of this flywheel.
I hate those flywheels. I drive a Nissan Navara (Frontier) and about 50.000km ago the thing was replaced. Now it's back to the rattle in the can. This time I go for a SMF one. I'm sick of this cr.p.
Audi, VW, Same shit. I'd never touch one again.I'd way rather drive Japanese than German crap. Japanese way outlasts German crap with a fraction of the maintenance costs. I had a V6 Audi and while it was the nicest drive ever, it was also the most unreliable shit I ever owned and cost a bloody fortune to maintain. That's why they have no resale value.
Hello, can you explain to me the Gds gearbox, the advantages and disadvantages, and how many kilos to change the oil, and is it the same as the normal gear, why some cars when the brakes are worn out, and some when the brakes are worn out? Thank you, engineer.
Hi there, great video. My vw T5 has just started rattling about a month ago. It has got progressively more noticeable. It’s definitely nowhere as bad as your example in the video. It mainly rattled when starting the car and accelerating/going over bumps in the road. Just wondering if you think the car is still safe to drive for much longer? I want to go on a trip this weekend, only 2 hour drive, but nervous about something going wrong. Thanks
the solution is to buy the regular old school flywheel conversion kit for your car or truck, comes with a regular old school flywheel, flywheel bolts and clutch kit. these kits are available for most vehicles and is the best solution.
I like SMF in a mk4… but I guess with the low end torque in a diesel a lot of people say the DMF. At the end of the day we out here trying to keep these ol baddies on the road as long as possible 😂
@@teachertechnology1 yes, it’s hot off the press that they are now replacing dmf with smf. A couple of months ago they were going to put in a replacement dmf, but no longer. I gather there have been so many replacement DMF s . Maybe they will see how going back to the smf works.
This concept is underrated in the aftermarket i can see it benefits done with fluid and billet, similar to stall converter workings just imagine having two harmonic balancers, maybe 2k extra revs. Our s15 felt much nicer with one than without
My friend owns a B8.5 S4, I pulled the entire engine/transmission/subframe and stripped down the block to send to the machine shop only to find out nothing was wrong with the engine and it was the DMF making the knocking noise the entire time.
I loved the video Charles! I have a MK4 2004 VW Jetta GLI 2.8L 24v VR6 6 speed Manual 02M. Planning to buy a South Bend Daily Stage 3. Do I need to buy a new Dual Mass Flywheel, or should I keep the one that came with my car as OEM? I think mine is DMF LuK 240mm. Should I buy a brand new DMF from LuK that matches mine? Mine is almost 20 years old or should I switch to a Single Mass Flywheel? I hate to install a brand-new aftermarket Clutch of this caliber and keep the old DMF. If you recommend replacing the DUAL MASS FLYWHEEL, with a SMF brand model, will it go well on the MK4 platform for this car? Sorry for these type of rookie questions, I am pretty sure you get asked these all the time, my apologies, but someone told me that you are the MK4 expert in the whole east coast.
I don’t know if you have already bought the clutch and installed it but I don’t think south bend makes a stage 3 daily for DMF so you’d need to use SMF. That being said I wouldn’t go DMF unless it came in the vehicle that I bought, and once I was dropping the trans to swap a clutch pressure plate or throw out bearing… I’d change to SMF. Less room for failure. Hope that helps.
Great video! I got a brand new DMF sent but uppon inspection it has some broken chips on the outside circunference of the face, not the teeth ring. Nothing seems to be lose inside nor funny noises. Do you think I should send it back? Thanks
Would you or do you have any videos with a single mass flywheel commentary or review? id love to see you review the Valeo SMF kit for the 02M mk4... 6spd...
i have a b8 s4, my mechanic says its the DMF and to go to SMF but i dont hear any noise, i just have a hard time getting into 1st/2nd as i think the clutch isnt totally disengaging when the pedal is depressed.
I was changing oil in my friends turbo diesel 2006 Jetta, and heard the dreaded Rattle. She had 80K on the car. Volkswagen would not warranty it, so she sold it on Craigslist. When I researched the issue, I found it was a common problem, esp. for that year. I'm a heavy diesel tech., and early Ford powerstep kestrel had the same problem. I lost all respect for Volkswagen after that.
I have to have mine done - diagnosed today - yes, very expensive job! You just mentioned a manual transmission, but this is a VW Passat with auto 6-spd wet clutch DSG. Is it essentially the same set-up?
Mine has just went, been to scrapyard and got a used one for £50. Not planning on keeping my 04 Golf 1.9 for to long though.... only has 103k on the clock aswell smh. Going to be fun fitting it tomorrow 😅
Well it’s done took 11 hours without in-shop machinery 😅 2 jacks and some wood chunks now though a pipe has went as some point so my turbo isn’t getting enough air/hole somewhere.....absolute nightmare
I bought a 2009 TDI CBEA common rail with what sounded off like bad lifters. You know, that clacking noise..... Ordered from Latvia, replaced them suckers, put all back together to find out that clacking noise was still there. F....CK... Should have realized this was piston slapping from the beginning. Any tips or advice how to differentiate between these two? Think that will help a lot of us out there to keep from replacing what is otherwise fine and determine the real cause of the problem - this kind of problem at least. Thanks a lot love you videos for their simplicity and down to earth language.
Potential for failure again down the road? Are you saying the dual mass flywheel is less reliable or that using a cheaper smf might cause damage/failure through vibration?
OK so as there are loads of us with this issue past or present. How many miles did you nurse it along for before getting the job done? 100% goin to replace with the cheaper, stronger single. Especially considering my car is 16 years old and to spend dual money is crazy. If it was less than 5 years old, I'd probably wanna replace like for like.
Could something like this occur from a catastrophic event, say driving through water or something that could lodge between the plates if the car floats for a short period of time?
And what about dmf for dsg? How can i upgrade it? I have a dsg tt 08 with k04 and flywheel die every track day... Sachs said that it only support 300 lbft. And my car have more than that. I already have tcu tune... maybe tcu problem or dmf are at the limit?
Just had my vw crafter done £1400 not cheap I would have done it myself but no ramp 😭 I was looking at fitting a solid state flywheel but was advised it can cause gearbox problems
Hi, I'm waiting for the buyback of my TDI (Canada), my DMF started to make sounds 20 000 km (12 000 miles) ago and in the last month it started to slip when changing from 1st to 2nd. My question is: should I park the car and stop using it in case the DMF completely fails? Currently it's only when the car is cold, does it gives you any ideas on on worse it is ?
Lucas Côté had that problem myself and the dealer wont redo the work and wants another 1700 I should have got a solicitor but later on I changed it myself. Made to rip people off.
Hey first I love watching any and all of your videos.. great info and greatly explained.. nice explanation on the dual mass flywheel and I figure since I came across this video I thought id like to get your opinion on the whole light weight single mass flywheels.. any time ive been in the clutch area I typically replace the dual mass with a single mass with the stock sachs clutch and never had any really problems but its always nice getting the opinion of a vw tech such as yourself and if its really just a vibration issues its hard to notice and extra vibration when you have upgraded motor mounts cause than its just like driving a box truck with all the vibration in the mounts alone
I remember having a slight rattle coming from the floor on my is200 and I sold it like that. Just swapped the clutch plate and the bearing. The rattle was audible when the car was on a decline or decelerating.
Hello ! I have a volkswagen cc tdi DSG from 2013 and i have to change the flywheel but i was wondering if after the change my car will go smoother , the car is vibrating at lower Rpm like 1200 - 1400 rpm , will the change of the flywheel resolve this problem also ? If u're reading and answering this Thankyou Verry Much ! :D
In a TDi I would NOT switch over to a SMF! 3k bill here after 25k of use in a mk6 cjaa. The SMF took out the synchros in the 02q. Now im sourcing out a recycled transmission and a sachs (Do not go with LUK) clutch kit w/ DMF!! Maybe a gas job is easier on the tranny but DONT go SMF in a TDi! As for you all wondering about the noise and vibrations w/ the SMF .. I parked my car beside my 2008 Ford F350 6.4L diesel ... You cant hear the Ford running ...
Hay HumbleMechanic, You didn't explain why the DMF in your video has the center cut out. I don't want to get into if the dealer classifies this as a defect, but would you? How many other main drive train parts have to be cut out upon failure? TDI love from Chicago
Hi great video 👍🏼 , I have a question please. I have a 2005 GTI 5 speed 1.8t and purchased my second south bend daily clutch. I’m having clutch chatter after the run in period. Which is wired because my first south bend daily clutch never had any problems with chattering. What do you think might cause clutch chatter from my second new clutch install. Thank you
HumbleMechanic the car is the "newer" 1.9 tdi bls with dpf and known for weaker conrods and crankshaft.the car was very wobbly from the dmf and after 7h of driving and 700km the engine started to knock .
Hi Charles, I have a rattling/vibration coming from my clutch system when in neutral but when I push the clutch pedal down just a half inch it goes away. Is this a bad throwout bearing?
I think I have the same issue and I was chasing engine mounts but I changed them and it didn't help. It almost feels like clutch chatter. It's worse at the friction point, when you start from a stop. Also the engine shakes when you start it up initially. Good tip in regards to you can replace it with a regular flywheel.
@@joshuaflaherty2880 Over 100,000km on it and probably more since I noticed it. Experienced driving manuals and I don't abuse it though so that may be part of it lasting.
Good video. What do you think about the DMF, in an automatic car? The torque converter can calm the engine vibration, making the DMF unnecessary, or if it fail i should replace it? I have a straight 5, petrol engine with DMF, with classic automatic, can i use a single mass flywheel?
Switching to a SM flywheel removes the protection a DM flywheel offers to adjoining parts: To achieve greater fuel efficiency, the internal transmission parts were made lighter and need the "cushion" of the DM flywheel to absorb the shock of engagement, so it is not necessarily merely a cost-free option to switch to a SM flywheel. There may be adverse consequences on the other parts not designed to withstand the greater stress that results from engagement with a SM flywheel, and I expect it will be a bit more expensive to rebuild a transmission than to replace a flywheel and clutch.
Well said. I never buy this story of: "This is just more expensive and worse. They just invented it to make money." It sounds more like an opinion rather than an actual explanation of why it is useless and why it does not impact anything else on the car. There is always more than meets the eye and these things are developed for specific reasons and have scientific explanations for existing. If you skip changing the oil, or use really bad quality oil, the car will also still run with little to no difference, does that mean better oil does nothing? People need to research more before making conclusions about something they do not fully understand...
If you replace a DMF with a SMF you run a risk of damaging the transmission, but there is the option to buy a sprung clutch disk which will take a roll of the DMF to some extent. That would be the option for me.
The single mass flywheels are no good for mk6+ manual transmission cars. The 1-4 synchros are steel instead of brass. This is a harder material and unfortunately leads to tabs breaking off, no longer allowing you to get into gear due to increased vibrations from the engine making it to the transmission through a SMF. You can even hear the increased vibration at idle. Stick with a DMF and plan on replacing them every time you replace your clutch if you have a stage 2+ tune.
I have an automatic 2006 VW Beetle, and the video you showed sounds just like the flywheel. My only question is..... you said in a manual, so I’m wondering if it’s sounding just like that is it the flywheel in the automatic, or something else?
I had this seize up on my Subaru XV crosstrek after only 60,000 Km. Thought the clutch was bad. Turns out it died and killed my clutch so I had to shell out 2,000€ to replace both. Mine didn't make any noise at all. Just started smelling clutch burn.
Kermit the Frog Useful comment , thanks . The exact same symptoms on my 2.5 Focus at 39.000 miles. No noise but burning smell and slight vibration on low revs.
I just replaced my clutch in my 96 cabrio2.0 aba and after having my ex boyfriend take over with the install of new clutch I doesn't grab in first gear but reverse and 2nd-5thgears are fine however after riding the clutch to get the car going and taking it around the block there was an awful smell (pretty sure my clutch) what could this be caused by? Bad flywheel? Clutch cable? Is my new clutch pooched? It's only been around the block and back all my fluids are replaced and push rod and throw out bearing seem to be fine..... I really don't know what it could be but I have a hunch my flywheel wasn't properly machined....
Hey Charles, great video! I have a 2007 passat with the 2.0 tdi engine and it vibrates and shakes when accelerating, my mechanic said it is the DMF, can it be anything else, Like a clogged egr valve (I read that on Google) ? Thank you for your help
MrErikw26 The brand became a passion for me after working on them. I picked VW out of tech school due to an amazing training program. Pretty sure I made the right choice.
I'm actually leaving the field after 13 years. Just can't do it anymore. Must admit that vw/Audi has always been my kryptonite. BMW and Mercedes no problem. Going into towing instead. Better pay, no more praying to the God of flag time to make a living lol
Hi, great channel :-) This may be a dumb question, but is it possible for the flywheel on a new beetle to cause intermittent cranking? I've went through 2 starter solenoid in 1 month and I'm wondering if I may have a damaged flywheel? Thx :-)
Hello Humble mechanic. Please help I have a 2011 vw caddy maxi 7speed DSG. I’ve had three gearboxes, clutch packs and mechatronic units but now I’ve got the death rattle coming from I think the flywheel. Is there anything I need to be checking or will it be yet another 5k bill ? Thank you
How come you can't get a DMF refurbished IF its only a few springs worn or damaged in side of it? I'm sure they wont cost a $1000. Its just an other way garages rip people off
It always amazes me that for decades things have worked perfectly, then comes along some bright spark who decides to make something simple more complicated, and in the process bring complexity and problems to something that has always worked fine?
My thoughts exactly. I am still not convinced it is actually helpful or intentionally creating more service needs. I am not a mechanic therefore did a little digging and still don't understand why we actually need this "improvement". The argument I found was that modern cars are more powerful and normal clutch can't handle that. Errmm... My son has a 1.4l petrol engine with DMF... I am pretty sure that my 1.6i sports car was way more powerful 20 odd years ago and that had regular flywheel. I just knew how to use the clutch? Confused...
Apparently more do do with the uptake of diesel in the consumer car market.
The vibration thing seems to be more of a diesel problem.
@@Cheepchipsable Common rail Diesels = big torque spikes. Traditional spring damped clutch plates (people like to forget this) no longer provide enough damping.
Try driving a diesel that has several hundred pounds of feet of torque below 2000rpm and can pull a 36mph per 1000rpm 6th gear from as low as 1200rpm. The dual mass absorbs the movement that occurs each time a cylinder fires at very low rpm. This movement would bottom out a standard clutches springs straight away or they would need to be stiff enough that the gearbox would have to absorb the pulses instead. As engine speed increases this disappears. If you only drive over 2000rpm or so you can get away without one but surely that defeats the point of buying a very modern Diesel engine with all that low end in the first place.
But its not that simple is it, put a SMF on a modern diesel, good luck driving that bitch at less than 1500 rpm, cos it will judder like a male dog smelling an in heat bitch.
It smothes out the power strokes and there worth there weight in gold.
The piss take with them is they could easily be made to last the life of the car, and you can get aftermarket jobs that will do the life of the car, my A3 has 220,000 miles on the clock (BKD) and the flywheel is now on its forth clutch and still rock solid, yes, it cost me more than a grand to buy, but there £300 each for OEM ones and HAVE to be done with the clutch, so its £1000 for OEM, every 50,000 miles or so, or £1000 upfront, and £200 clutches every 50,000 miles.
Had the same on my Focus CMAX DM02, 350,000 miles before it went to scrap, DMF had more clutches than a hooker does clients on a friday night in soho.
It’s a good explanation! A lot of shops will say it’s a bad bearing if they don’t know much about dual mass flywheels and they suggest replacing the whole trans! When I’m reality, it’s just a dmf.
Great explanation of the VW DMF failure.
I had signs of DMF problems in my MK1 Seat Leon ASZ 1.9TDI (MK4 Golf), it started with a grinding feeling when the clutch plate engaged, but also a 'chattering' noise at the point of flywheel to clutch engagement.
Ended up fitting a stronger clutch plate and single mass flywheel, it was well worth doing. Yes there was increased noise and vibration at lower revs, but not something you would notice unless looking for it, none of my passengers ever questioned the noise.
Changing the clutch and flywheel took around 6 hours on a gravel driveway with a pair of axle stands and trolley jack. Certainly a DIY job for those with time and basic tools. (And the willingness to give it a go).
That car has been scrapped now, but it did 202000 miles whilst the body and subframe deteriorated around it. In the end I had to get rid of it because getting it through an MOT here in the UK was going to cost too much in parts alone for a tatty car.
The engine and gearbox.... Not started in 4 months yet cranked strongly straight away when someone came to take it off me. Thankfully the engine and possibly gearbox live on inside someone's MK4 Golf 😁
Had a severe failure on an ARL Seat Leon 1.9. Rattle on shutdown. Ran fine for a minute, then noticed the gearstick violently shaking back and forth and the vehicle making extremely unusual sounds as it tried to shake itself apart. I found multiple hot spots on the dual mass. That much play I'm surprised it was still in one piece. And finally, a hole in the bottom of it with something poking out. Surprisingly there was no damage to anything on the engine or the gearbox
One of the main reasons a DMF is there is to absorb vibration and kick from the engine before it gets to the transmission. DMFs provide a dampener for your transmission and enable manufacturers to produce lighter and less robust transmissions. That translates to cheaper lighter and weaker. Fitting a SM flywheel is more likely to knock out a bearing or damage another transmission component rather than damage the engine
I've just replaced the DMF and clutch on my 2008 Golf Mk5 TDI. My clue that there was a problem was a rattling/grinding noise at idle - not as bad as in HM's video, but definitely there; it sounded like it was coming from somewhere deep in the engine bay, and it went away when you pressed the clutch pedal. I used a mechanic's stethoscope to confirm it was coming from the transmission. It's a pretty straightforward job to replace it, it's mainly just time-consuming, although I was completely unprepared for how heavy the transmission was and while I was able to use gravity to get it out, it was impossible for me to bench-press it back in while laying on my back. I had to call a mobile clutch guy just to wrestle the box back in for me.
FWIW, from the point of originally noticing the noise to actually fixing it took over a year. The car is my daily and drove just fine in that time. When I got the old DMF out, it wasn't *that* loose; I was expecting it to be in a much worse state than it was.
You are epic! I’ve got a VW Passat 06 and have heard this noise for ages. I thought it was probably to do with the clutch as when I depress the clutch the noise goes away ta-dah. That video you play at 2:29 is the EXACT noise coming from under my engine. Now I know what the issue is I can do some research before going in blind to a mechanic. Thank you!!
One of the best explanations so far of a dual mass flywheel. Well done!
+JulianJunior Thank you
Yes, but talking a bit too fast.
No it's completely wrong! I used to be a plant manager of the company that invented them (luk) and I guarantee this is wrong! The dual mass fly wheel is a torsional damper.
@@stevemarks9360 lol now we know why you used to be one
Great vid! I have an '03 GTI VR6 with almost 150K miles on it, that has been vibrating a lot lately, and not shifting crisply/smoothly. It was just diagnosed with a damaged DMF and probably worn clutch. It amazes me that after 22 years of ownership as my daily driver, that the DMF and clutch lasted this long! Yes, the car has been garaged & 'babied' all these years, and maintained well, and driven normally (rarely aggressively). I've never changed the 6-speed manual transmission oil though. So even though i've had 22 year old oil in the gearbox, the transmission has held up nicely. Anyway, a local well respected garage that specialized in Euro cars, especially German, quoted me $1950 for the job, and they're putting in a SMF. The engine is perfect, so I could probably get another 10 to 20 years out of it, I figure!
I dont usually leave comments but amazing video even 9 years later
thank you
Get the single mas conversion kit guys. Done it several times - YOU CAN NOT FEEL DE DIFFERENCE.
Greetings from Germany!
totally!!!
Great video. I have a DMF from a different make but the clear explanation and especially the video that showed the failing sound was brilliant.
Been searching for a few days on this problem, that's the exact same noise that has stated in my Passat b5 DSG, ive got a added squeel when deaccelerating, gave me certainty on what part to buy, thank you 👍
I bought my GTI new and the dual mass flywheel went out at 54K miles. I'm mechanically inclined and can fix most anything on a car. I skipped the warranty and replaced it with a one piece flywheel because I had intentions to do an APR flash. In the end, I decided against the APR flash as my car is plenty quick for me. I have 113K on my GTI on the original engine and the only other problem I had was the intake manifold needed replace. $170 for a new intake and I cleaned the intake valves while I was at it. My car has been great other than these two things.
Had this happen on my last two VW-based cars, a SEAT Leon TDI (based on a Mk4 Golf) and a VW Sharan, the latter actually destroyed the whole gearbox. Both cars had over 100,000 miles on them. I replaced the SEAT's with a SMF and I really couldn't notice any difference in vibration. These days I drive an automatic Mercedes...
Yeah cause you drive over 2000rpm
@@teinepolaarsus6728 er... wut?
I've been driving manual transmission cars and trucks all my life (61' bug, 65' mustang, 59' chevy fleet side, and currently a 2014 taco) and always thought smooth engagement was up to the operator! Never had chatter problems or longevity issues. Sound like DM flywheels are another way to up the price of repairs to me. Really!
Terry Goyan exactly how I feel about it
4 cylinder diesels in audis like 1.9tdi vibrate quite a bit, it is good having a dual mass. I had two 1.9tdi’s one with dual mass and one without it
Imo worth it
Although a lighter flywheel would be better for perfomance
One of the reasons for dual mass 'technology' is to prevent deterioration of gearbox components, many of which are now plastic or composites..so the DMF is meant to help prevent those components from failures...However, as I contemplate the replacement of my DMF on my VW LT35 (not available in North America butt basically a Merc Sprinter) I also note the very expensive replacement kits, as mentioned by Charles. 'Stealerships' will charge well over 1500-00 Pounds for replacement, including parts...You can easily find LT35's for sale or being stripped because these parts make them uneconomic to repair..Shame really, they are decent vans.
not every operator is going to super smooth with the gear changes the dmf also increases transmission life and is cheaper to replace than a broken transmission. I have seen cars converted to SMF and the transmission went out after a few months
Endless thank yous.👍👍Going to a solid flywheel.Is there any reported damage to crank .etc
My 07 Audi needs a clutch job, mechanic quoted $1900 CDN for the DMF. Found that LuK sells them for $650 CDN.
Now just got 9 hours of labor to save for.
Ouch
I actually ended paying the mechanic a total of aprox 3500$(in Norway) for replacing clutch + dmf. I was thinking of getting a smf but was warned against it and they then told me that the vibrations in a smf would wear out the transmission/gearbox way faster, do you know if this is true? Great video btw, keep up the good work.
Yes
My nissan almera 2.2 diesel DMF went after 40000 miles!! replaced with SMF 24 years later and nearly 300000 miles on the clock slightly more rattley not one fault and still going strong and my wallet is bigger!!
149,000 miles on my '06 Ibiza 1.9 PD and the DMF has just started to knock. They can last a decent amount of time if you drive the car in a certain way, ie. not lugging the engine at low RPMs, not holding the car on an incline with the clutch instead of the brakes, not dropping the clutch hard and not pulling away without bringing the revs above ~1100-1200RPM
in east Europe are some good shops that rebuild them (if the damage is not definitive) by resurfacing , balancing , replacing the springs, etc.
this is not possible for all models , it depends of the spare parts , quite hard to find.
the cost is around 180 $ / unit.
I had mine replaced on my VW this week to a Single mass. Noise is gone, car vibrates a little more, but hey..it's fixed! (2015 VW Polo).
Exactly if you don't take care about the first simpthoms like vibrations after replace the dual mass flywheel by the cheap one (single mass) that's it will be whole transmission &transaxle assembly and the rear differential damage, I know it by own experience...
I just finished installing a Stage 2 clutch kit with single mass flywheel in. MKV GTI. Yes, the DMF was comfy and quiet, but the SMFW is MUCH more fun to drive. Single mass for me any day, even with all of the chatter sounds.
Brigand253 I’ve got a MK4 V5 and will be replacing front shocks next week. I have an old VR6 SMF knocking about which I think will fit. Worth the work/money on a new clutch to change whilst I am down there?
My 2012 GTi wouldn't go into gear one night. Turns out the clutch failed. With only 47K miles on it!! I find this rather shocking as my previous car was an '04 Golf TDi with 148K miles at trade in for this car.......it was on the OEM clutch still. I can drive rather fast at times and tend to downshift all the time. But still it isn't like I'm riding the thing or not matching RPM. But FFS 47K miles?!?
So, the OEM parts were some $1400.....said nuts to that....had them install a stage 2 kit with Teflon. Hopefully this one will last a bit longer!
Thanks for the video man! I'm going to watch the rest of your VW series for sure!
The clutch on my 2013 golf just failed at 50000km. The clutch plate failed where It is riveted to the springs. $1600 repair.
It's been six years since you posted this video, want to brush up and come change mine for me? lol. All seriousness though, I've been trying to figure out what this sound was on my '11 A3 TDI and found this video. Thank you very much for the info!
My flywheel just did this ☹️
Oh no!!!!
Same
Think mine has too 🙄🤦🏻♂️😤
Common fault on the audi mine cost £630 to get fixed. Better than that noise though
Same😢 @humblemechanic I know this vid is like half a decade old lol, but maybe you could shed some light on replacing the DMF with a SMF in DSG MK6 Golf R?
Good video, I am still curious what sound in early fail stage this dual mass flywheel has on vw golf 6.
Wow mine just went as soon as I press the clutch in slightly it starts knocking really distinctive and very embarrassing whilst waiting at the traffic lights next to a school 😩
Just took it into my local dealer Syed top man charged me £630 better than what I expected..
Great video thanks
I am experiencing the exact same issue with my Audi b8 2009. Been driving it over a year like this because Audi insiders told me that if I wait for it to break, the repair cost will be the same as instant replacement. But if you say it might damage the transmission...
I will be contacting some mechanics and ask for a price estimate for single mass flywheel.
I just had this happen to my GTI, it has around 96000 miles on it. I’m replacing my DMF with an SMF!
How did the single mass flywheel go??
Hey Charles, are the DMF failures more prevalent on the MK5 TDIs or the MK5 2.5 gas engines? I see tons of youtube failures on the TDIs only. I am suspecting this dual-flywheel wear stems from the TDIs low end torque coupled with spirited stop and go driving. I've never heard of a single mass flywheel failing BEFORE a clutch failing.
My old dmf started squeaking and cherping at idle thought a family of birds where nesting in the bell housing it would make a rattle when the clutch was half down, eventually it rattled all the time, wasn't really that worn when I took it out, but loose enough to rattle, they are an awful design and designed to fleece the customer even more never hear anything good about dmfs designed by dickhead, I changed it to single mass flywheel conversion.
Let me tell you my story with VW flywheel failures. I am from Bulgaria, EU member state. I own VW Polo 1.4 TDI 90 hp 2014. It had the same noises as in your video, so I decided that I'm gonna change the flywheel. My uncle is a car mechanic and I brought the car to him. When we dismounted the flywheel we started to search it by its catalog number (04B105264B) in the local car parts dealers with no success. After some time spent in researching the issue I found that this part is not available in any car part dealer in the country and EU as a whole. It seems that VW had been having an action to replace the DMF for this particular model (including 75 and 105 hp modifications, it's the same 3 cyl. engine) with SMF kit but I had not know this at the time. Finally I found that a Polish company recycles old failed flywheels. I also found that there is a single mass clutch kit available in a car parts dealer from the Netherlands. Interesting fact for the SMF clutch kit is that it includes right drive shaft which should be replaced. The new shaft is thicker than the original one. But replacing the DMF with a single one *probably* includes re-programming of the ECU, which I'm not sure we can do on our own. So basically I have 2 safe options now - buy recycled flywheel (400 euros for the part and the delivery) or bring the car to VW (2000 euros) for replacing with single mass clutch kit.
Great video mines gone and going to give it a go. Just remembering where the nuts and bolts go. Will put back bolts/nuts after removal if possible, and mark the rest.
Omg thank you for this video I have looked everywhere for a example of the noise I get and your video showed me exactly the noise I am getting I have an Astra two top and I was so scared it was the dreaded m32 gearbox failure. I have that exact noise when the car is idle but if I press the clutch down it dissapears
Soon I have to replace the clutch in my mk4 TDI but I am In dilemma Tu put smf or dmf? The last one is very expensive Your advice thanks
They say DMF protects transmission. On the other hand, second hand transmission is a lot of cheaper than a DMF.
Just of curiosity, did you switch to SMF and how it performed?
I have MKV Golf 2.0 TDI with 220,000 km's without service record.
I bought it at 210,000 km's and it had bad noise in upper right region of engine cover,when you press clutch it almost goes silent,I made 10,000 km's meanwhile and now there is almost no noise.
Few mechanic said that DMF is going to fail but there isnt noise anymore,no changes on clutch,only get vibrations at idle.
Recently local mechanic only tightened one hose which made terrible noise,otherwise no change were done to car.
There's also, of course, the advantage of weight and resulting increase of moment of inertia, although that's probably not a big enough advantage compared to the NVH increase for a daily driver.
***** Agreed, I wouldn't go so far as to say lightened flywheels unless it's a track car but if mine broke I'd definitely go SMF especially for fast road use, comfort is not something I care about most in my cars, within reason of course. maybe when I'm old... but by then everybody will probably have EVs anyway and definitely no manuals :s.
If you dont mind a little noise at low RPMs, get a SM fly wheel. The SM fly wheel makes more chatter because is has no dampeners are is typically lighter. However, if you dont mind a little noise and a stiffer clutch, get one. The thing will last you forever and never fail because their is now extra moving parts, just one hunk of metal. Plus its cheaper.
+Voss2120 Yea, that is the cheapest option for sure. And a good one for long term. I really like the way DMF feels, especially on a daily driver.
+HumbleMechanic Part of the benefit of the DMF is that it reduces peak stress in all the components around it. Replacing with SMF increases the likelihood of crank shaft failure, especially on common rail engines designed with only DMF use in mind. It doesn't seem to be an issue on PD and older engines. To get the best life from a DMF never let the engine labour at low RPM and even though a DMF makes it feel acceptably smooth, always release the clutch slowly rather than dropping it in suddenly after gear changes. Driven like this the DMF should last as long as the clutch.
+Voss2120 Watch the LUK explanation video. Cars designed for DMF should use a DMF. The single mass will wear out other components that were not designed for it.
ErikThePieMan explain to me why it should fail with a smf. As long the weight is the same in total why would it fail. By the way engines are internally balanced aswell. Is this just a way to drive more comfortable with a diesel car instead of the juddering like before. And it costs too much this part. I could easily buy a spare tdi engine with the cost of this flywheel.
I hate those flywheels. I drive a Nissan Navara (Frontier) and about 50.000km ago the thing was replaced. Now it's back to the rattle in the can. This time I go for a SMF one. I'm sick of this cr.p.
@Hassan Ali And you probably drive a Ford... ;-) lol
@Hassan Ali Nailed it, didn't I? Lol
@Hassan Ali My sympathies, almost as bad. ;-) Hehehehe
Audi, VW, Same shit. I'd never touch one again.I'd way rather drive Japanese than German crap. Japanese way outlasts German crap with a fraction of the maintenance costs. I had a V6 Audi and while it was the nicest drive ever, it was also the most unreliable shit I ever owned and cost a bloody fortune to maintain. That's why they have no resale value.
Hello, can you explain to me the Gds gearbox, the advantages and disadvantages, and how many kilos to change the oil, and is it the same as the normal gear, why some cars when the brakes are worn out, and some when the brakes are worn out? Thank you, engineer.
Hi, thanks for the video. How much must the flywheel bolts be torqued? And is it necessary to use new bolts?
Hi there, great video. My vw T5 has just started rattling about a month ago. It has got progressively more noticeable. It’s definitely nowhere as bad as your example in the video. It mainly rattled when starting the car and accelerating/going over bumps in the road. Just wondering if you think the car is still safe to drive for much longer? I want to go on a trip this weekend, only 2 hour drive, but nervous about something going wrong. Thanks
How long did you wait?
Did you ever take your trip?
the solution is to buy the regular old school flywheel conversion kit for your car or truck, comes with a regular old school flywheel, flywheel bolts and clutch kit. these kits are available for most vehicles and is the best solution.
Would you recommend a Single Mass Flywheel in a Daily 1.9 TDI 02M?
I like SMF in a mk4… but I guess with the low end torque in a diesel a lot of people say the DMF.
At the end of the day we out here trying to keep these ol baddies on the road as long as possible 😂
Vw polo just had dmf replacement at 43000 miles. Vw now recommended changing to non dm flywheel and repleacing the drive shaft
So it is true that they're issuing DMF to SMF conversions at dealership?
@@teachertechnology1 yes, it’s hot off the press that they are now replacing dmf with smf. A couple of months ago they were going to put in a replacement dmf, but no longer. I gather there have been so many replacement DMF s . Maybe they will see how going back to the smf works.
This concept is underrated in the aftermarket
i can see it benefits done with fluid and billet, similar to stall converter workings
just imagine having two harmonic balancers, maybe 2k extra revs.
Our s15 felt much nicer with one than without
Will a single mass conversion do any damage to the gearbox or engine due to more vibration?
Sasho read stories of cranks snapping due to it
1 out of every 1000
More stress on the trans with a single mass.
I did this conversion and I am quite pleased of it. I have a polo 1.9tdi. There is some chatter noise it its bearable
My friend owns a B8.5 S4, I pulled the entire engine/transmission/subframe and stripped down the block to send to the machine shop only to find out nothing was wrong with the engine and it was the DMF making the knocking noise the entire time.
I loved the video Charles! I have a MK4 2004 VW Jetta GLI 2.8L 24v VR6 6 speed Manual 02M. Planning to buy a South Bend Daily Stage 3. Do I need to buy a new Dual Mass Flywheel, or should I keep the one that came with my car as OEM? I think mine is DMF LuK 240mm. Should I buy a brand new DMF from LuK that matches mine? Mine is almost 20 years old or should I switch to a Single Mass Flywheel? I hate to install a brand-new aftermarket Clutch of this caliber and keep the old DMF. If you recommend replacing the DUAL MASS FLYWHEEL, with a SMF brand model, will it go well on the MK4 platform for this car? Sorry for these type of rookie questions, I am pretty sure you get asked these all the time, my apologies, but someone told me that you are the MK4 expert in the whole east coast.
I don’t know if you have already bought the clutch and installed it but I don’t think south bend makes a stage 3 daily for DMF so you’d need to use SMF. That being said I wouldn’t go DMF unless it came in the vehicle that I bought, and once I was dropping the trans to swap a clutch pressure plate or throw out bearing… I’d change to SMF. Less room for failure. Hope that helps.
Great video explanation of the root cause of the noise!
thank you!
Great video! I got a brand new DMF sent but uppon inspection it has some broken chips on the outside circunference of the face, not the teeth ring. Nothing seems to be lose inside nor funny noises. Do you think I should send it back? Thanks
Would you or do you have any videos with a single mass flywheel commentary or review? id love to see you review the Valeo SMF kit for the 02M mk4... 6spd...
i have a b8 s4, my mechanic says its the DMF and to go to SMF but i dont hear any noise, i just have a hard time getting into 1st/2nd as i think the clutch isnt totally disengaging when the pedal is depressed.
I was changing oil in my friends turbo diesel 2006 Jetta, and heard the dreaded Rattle. She had 80K on the car. Volkswagen would not warranty it, so she sold it on Craigslist. When I researched the issue, I found it was a common problem, esp. for that year. I'm a heavy diesel tech., and early Ford powerstep kestrel had the same problem. I lost all respect for Volkswagen after that.
I have to have mine done - diagnosed today - yes, very expensive job! You just mentioned a manual transmission, but this is a VW Passat with auto 6-spd wet clutch DSG. Is it essentially the same set-up?
Mine has just went, been to scrapyard and got a used one for £50. Not planning on keeping my 04 Golf 1.9 for to long though.... only has 103k on the clock aswell smh. Going to be fun fitting it tomorrow 😅
Well it’s done took 11 hours without in-shop machinery 😅 2 jacks and some wood chunks now though a pipe has went as some point so my turbo isn’t getting enough air/hole somewhere.....absolute nightmare
Shot clip where my DMF has a huge hole init how the F does this happen?!?!
I bought a 2009 TDI CBEA common rail with what sounded off like bad lifters. You know, that clacking noise..... Ordered from Latvia, replaced them suckers, put all back together to find out that clacking noise was still there. F....CK... Should have realized this was piston slapping from the beginning. Any tips or advice how to differentiate between these two? Think that will help a lot of us out there to keep from replacing what is otherwise fine and determine the real cause of the problem - this kind of problem at least. Thanks a lot love you videos for their simplicity and down to earth language.
Potential for failure again down the road? Are you saying the dual mass flywheel is less reliable or that using a cheaper smf might cause damage/failure through vibration?
04:16 if the flywheel is balanced. The may be very little to no vibrations
Heard of stories where fitted a standard flywheel in place of a DMF has caused failure of the crankshaft due to the excessive vibrations.
OK so as there are loads of us with this issue past or present. How many miles did you nurse it along for before getting the job done? 100% goin to replace with the cheaper, stronger single. Especially considering my car is 16 years old and to spend dual money is crazy. If it was less than 5 years old, I'd probably wanna replace like for like.
Could something like this occur from a catastrophic event, say driving through water or something that could lodge between the plates if the car floats for a short period of time?
I don’t think submersion in water would cause such a failure. If you’re that deep in water you’d have other problems.
Why do I have a feeling you drove through a deep puddle
And what about dmf for dsg? How can i upgrade it? I have a dsg tt 08 with k04 and flywheel die every track day... Sachs said that it only support 300 lbft. And my car have more than that. I already have tcu tune... maybe tcu problem or dmf are at the limit?
Just had my vw crafter done £1400 not cheap I would have done it myself but no ramp 😭 I was looking at fitting a solid state flywheel but was advised it can cause gearbox problems
Hi, I'm waiting for the buyback of my TDI (Canada), my DMF started to make sounds 20 000 km (12 000 miles) ago and in the last month it started to slip when changing from 1st to 2nd. My question is: should I park the car and stop using it in case the DMF completely fails? Currently it's only when the car is cold, does it gives you any ideas on on worse it is ?
Lucas Côté had that problem myself and the dealer wont redo the work and wants another 1700 I should have got a solicitor but later on I changed it myself. Made to rip people off.
Hey first I love watching any and all of your videos.. great info and greatly explained.. nice explanation on the dual mass flywheel and I figure since I came across this video I thought id like to get your opinion on the whole light weight single mass flywheels.. any time ive been in the clutch area I typically replace the dual mass with a single mass with the stock sachs clutch and never had any really problems but its always nice getting the opinion of a vw tech such as yourself and if its really just a vibration issues its hard to notice and extra vibration when you have upgraded motor mounts cause than its just like driving a box truck with all the vibration in the mounts alone
Is this the same for a DSG
I remember having a slight rattle coming from the floor on my is200 and I sold it like that. Just swapped the clutch plate and the bearing. The rattle was audible when the car was on a decline or decelerating.
Hello ! I have a volkswagen cc tdi DSG from 2013 and i have to change the flywheel but i was wondering if after the change my car will go smoother , the car is vibrating at lower Rpm like 1200 - 1400 rpm , will the change of the flywheel resolve this problem also ? If u're reading and answering this Thankyou Verry Much ! :D
hi, that is a very damaged dmf...what brand of dual mass replacement do you recommend for vw group?
In a TDi I would NOT switch over to a SMF! 3k bill here after 25k of use in a mk6 cjaa. The SMF took out the synchros in the 02q. Now im sourcing out a recycled transmission and a sachs (Do not go with LUK) clutch kit w/ DMF!! Maybe a gas job is easier on the tranny but DONT go SMF in a TDi! As for you all wondering about the noise and vibrations w/ the SMF .. I parked my car beside my 2008 Ford F350 6.4L diesel ... You cant hear the Ford running ...
Hay HumbleMechanic, You didn't explain why the DMF in your video has the center cut out. I don't want to get into if the dealer classifies this as a defect, but would you? How many other main drive train parts have to be cut out upon failure?
TDI love from Chicago
if just doing the clutch does the flywheel need to be replaced?
What is a good place to get a replacement kit?
Hi great video 👍🏼 , I have a question please. I have a 2005 GTI 5 speed 1.8t and purchased my second south bend daily clutch. I’m having clutch chatter after the run in period. Which is wired because my first south bend daily clutch never had any problems with chattering. What do you think might cause clutch chatter from my second new clutch install. Thank you
on my tdi the bad dual mass clutch cracked the crankshaft.i've changed the crankshaft and went for valeo simple mass clutch
DAMN! I have never head of that.
HumbleMechanic the car is the "newer" 1.9 tdi bls with dpf and known for weaker conrods and crankshaft.the car was very wobbly from the dmf and after 7h of driving and 700km the engine started to knock .
Hi Charles, I have a rattling/vibration coming from my clutch system when in neutral but when I push the clutch pedal down just a half inch it goes away. Is this a bad throwout bearing?
I think I have the same issue and I was chasing engine mounts but I changed them and it didn't help. It almost feels like clutch chatter. It's worse at the friction point, when you start from a stop. Also the engine shakes when you start it up initially. Good tip in regards to you can replace it with a regular flywheel.
Mine does the same thing? How long did yours last before it finally broke?
@@joshuaflaherty2880 Over 100,000km on it and probably more since I noticed it. Experienced driving manuals and I don't abuse it though so that may be part of it lasting.
Good video. What do you think about the DMF, in an automatic car? The torque converter can calm the engine vibration, making the DMF unnecessary, or if it fail i should replace it? I have a straight 5, petrol engine with DMF, with classic automatic, can i use a single mass flywheel?
Wonder if their newest DMF's have the same problem. I'd hate that to happen if the clutch isn't worn yet.
Switching to a SM flywheel removes the protection a DM flywheel offers to adjoining parts: To achieve greater fuel efficiency, the internal transmission parts were made lighter and need the "cushion" of the DM flywheel to absorb the shock of engagement, so it is not necessarily merely a cost-free option to switch to a SM flywheel. There may be adverse consequences on the other parts not designed to withstand the greater stress that results from engagement with a SM flywheel, and I expect it will be a bit more expensive to rebuild a transmission than to replace a flywheel and clutch.
Well said. I never buy this story of: "This is just more expensive and worse. They just invented it to make money."
It sounds more like an opinion rather than an actual explanation of why it is useless and why it does not impact anything else on the car. There is always more than meets the eye and these things are developed for specific reasons and have scientific explanations for existing.
If you skip changing the oil, or use really bad quality oil, the car will also still run with little to no difference, does that mean better oil does nothing? People need to research more before making conclusions about something they do not fully understand...
thank you Humble Mechanic
If you replace a DMF with a SMF you run a risk of damaging the transmission, but there is the option to buy a sprung clutch disk which will take a roll of the DMF to some extent. That would be the option for me.
Stjepan Đopar please motivate.
The single mass flywheels are no good for mk6+ manual transmission cars. The 1-4 synchros are steel instead of brass. This is a harder material and unfortunately leads to tabs breaking off, no longer allowing you to get into gear due to increased vibrations from the engine making it to the transmission through a SMF. You can even hear the increased vibration at idle. Stick with a DMF and plan on replacing them every time you replace your clutch if you have a stage 2+ tune.
Would the car juddering in reverse only indicate dmf issue?
I have an automatic 2006 VW Beetle, and the video you showed sounds just like the flywheel. My only question is..... you said in a manual, so I’m wondering if it’s sounding just like that is it the flywheel in the automatic, or something else?
SMF for me guys I'm tired of worrying about my dmf
What modern diesels have got SMF these days?...
What's your opinion on swapping to smf
I had this seize up on my Subaru XV crosstrek after only 60,000 Km. Thought the clutch was bad. Turns out it died and killed my clutch so I had to shell out 2,000€ to replace both. Mine didn't make any noise at all. Just started smelling clutch burn.
Kermit the Frog
Useful comment , thanks . The exact same symptoms on my 2.5 Focus at 39.000 miles. No noise but burning smell and slight vibration on low revs.
How would I tell if the noise I'm hearing is the DMF or a worn out throwout bearing? (2003 Jetta TDi 5spd)
I just replaced my clutch in my 96 cabrio2.0 aba and after having my ex boyfriend take over with the install of new clutch I doesn't grab in first gear but reverse and 2nd-5thgears are fine however after riding the clutch to get the car going and taking it around the block there was an awful smell (pretty sure my clutch) what could this be caused by? Bad flywheel? Clutch cable? Is my new clutch pooched? It's only been around the block and back all my fluids are replaced and push rod and throw out bearing seem to be fine..... I really don't know what it could be but I have a hunch my flywheel wasn't properly machined....
Hey Charles, great video! I have a 2007 passat with the 2.0 tdi engine and it vibrates and shakes when accelerating, my mechanic said it is the DMF, can it be anything else, Like a clogged egr valve (I read that on Google) ? Thank you for your help
How did you get into fixing vw? Is the brand a passion of yours?
MrErikw26 The brand became a passion for me after working on them. I picked VW out of tech school due to an amazing training program. Pretty sure I made the right choice.
I'm actually leaving the field after 13 years. Just can't do it anymore. Must admit that vw/Audi has always been my kryptonite. BMW and Mercedes no problem. Going into towing instead. Better pay, no more praying to the God of flag time to make a living lol
Hi, great channel :-) This may be a dumb question, but is it possible for the flywheel on a new beetle to cause intermittent cranking? I've went through 2 starter solenoid in 1 month and I'm wondering if I may have a damaged flywheel? Thx :-)
Hello Humble mechanic.
Please help I have a 2011 vw caddy maxi 7speed DSG. I’ve had three gearboxes, clutch packs and mechatronic units but now I’ve got the death rattle coming from I think the flywheel. Is there anything I need to be checking or will it be yet another 5k bill ? Thank you
What about the disc failing?
How come you can't get a DMF refurbished IF its only a few springs worn or damaged in side of it? I'm sure they wont cost a $1000. Its just an other way garages rip people off
Question, will a SM flywheel increase gas mileage due to less rotating mass or do the DM and SM weigh pretty similar?
No
Can bad flywheel cause vibrations?
Can a worn out dmf destroy the clutch?