Thanks, Wes. That's actually how I did it the one time I did my 720. It's just that we used a longer and bigger hose, about 10 feet long. Same fill procedure, but the bleed off after filling was a LOT more dramatic, to say the least.
I have done a bit of tuning with propane using our multiple spark ignitions. Not an expert by any means but we've had some success over other systems. I am told (and tests supported) that LP likes a bit more timing than our gasoline burning customers. Great video. I was referred by a friend so I'm subscribing!
Tim is unprepared? He had the hose in one hand and the tank sitting right behind him. Leave Tim alone! We're forming a Tim Rules fan club so you'd better start treating him better!
hey Wes if you have a propane tank at your place you can get all the hoses and fittings to fill it up. If the law will allow it back east. here in western Kansas tons of tractors ran on LP back in the sixties. If you are going to work the tractor fuel consumption will probably be startlingly high compared to a diesel. a lot of the old LP MM Oliver Case and IH tractors around here had auxiliary after market tanks put on top of the front weights and old car frames would have thousand gallon LP tanks put on them and hauled to the field, we still have 2. My uncle remembers when his dads brother about lost it when LP went from a penny and a half a gallon to three cents. nice tractor keep it up.
That fitting is called an Emerson Fisher coupling. The one you are using here is probably the vapor return coupling. There is also one called a liquid fill coupling. Not sure what the physical difference is, there are no pictures or drawings of the internals, but at least people should be able to find these. The square threads are called Acme threads, female type, 1-3/4", I believe. The other end is male NPT, probably a 1".
the reason you get more power when sending the liquid to the converter is that when it gets there and the heat from the water changes it state, it expands 270 times. Now you have a ton of vapor not the puny little amount you start it on. I have a vehicle that I run on propane and it will idle all day on vapor even when you are "out" of gas. Really weird, it idles, but if you step on the gas it just goes blah, then you let off and it idles fine again. Tim really should wear gloves.
Thanks Wes It was a good video, Thanks for the lesson, I've worked on a lot of forklifts over the years but the tank looked pretty solidly mounted not like a forklift bottle.
Yep propane is a "dry" vapor, unlike gasoline which is a "wet" vapor, and easier to ignite. We used to run butane/propane powered Fords-- a Golden Jubilee and an NAA. Grandpa farmed with them all through the 50's and 60's. They were gasoline from the factory, but he had them converted over to butane because gasoline was 6 cents a gallon at the time (for farm gas) and butane was 3 cents a gallon... LOL:) Butane/propane is an excellent motor fuel, because it has the equivalent of 110 octane naturally. That means the compression ratio can be MUCH higher in the engine, which leads to greater efficiency (but increases combustion temperature, creating NOX emissions, which the gubmint and treehugging sumbitches don't like). That's one reason diesel engines are SO much more efficient-- the higher compression ratio. Anyway, unlike natural gas, which has to be stored as an extremely high pressure gas (CNG, or compressed natural gas) in cylinders (which makes fueling and service difficult), propane/butane is stored as a liquid (LPG, or liquified petroleum gas). Methane, a lighter molecule that makes up natural gas, requires deep cryogenic temperatures a couple hundred degrees below zero to become liquid, and has to be refrigerated to prevent the pressure from getting so high it blows up the tanks and lines (LNG, or liquified natural gas). Since propane can be stored at a liquid easily with much lower and safer pressure, it's easier to store sufficient quantities to operate a vehicle like a tractor or truck effectively. Since propane boils at about 39-40 degrees below zero (IIRC from memory), it must be stored in a pressurized tank at normal temperatures, but the pressure is much lower and safer than CNG systems. The big hose fitting is the liquid fill fitting on the tank, and the small one is the vapor vent fitting. You COULD have your propane company install a liquid draw valve and hose and valve fitting on your propane tank (if yall use propane on the farm and have a bulk tank) and fill the tractor yourself from there. Filling from a bulk tank, you open both the dust caps on the tractor tank, open the liquid withdrawal valve on the bulk tank, then "crack" the fill valve on the end of the hose to blow out any dust or bugs like spiders-- you want to make sure the hose and connections are VERY clean before hooking up. Then you screw the large liquid hose valve onto the tractor's large fitting. Then you open the liquid fill valve on the end of the hose to allow liquid to flow from the bulk tank to the tractor fuel tank. We had the smaller bleeder valve like you had, but the end was just open... you'd then screw that on to the smaller bleeder valve to vent pressure from the tank, allowing more liquid to be pushed from the bulk tank up the hose and into the tractor tank-- once the pressure equalizes, the liquid stops flowing, so to make it keep flowing you have to vent some vaporized propane from the top of the tractor tank to lower the pressure so more liquid can flow in. The little tiny screw valve you opened up top is a "gauge valve" to let you know when the tank is full-- when you open it and liquid propane squirts out and instantly flashes over to vapor (white smoke) you know the tank is full. Our tractors had a "dipper straw" type fuel level gauge on the side of the tank-- it had a little bleed screw like that which you opened, letting a little propane vapor (which is clear) blow out, then you turned a lever behind it that dipped a little straw connected to the bleed valve inside the tank, lowering it down from the top of the tank... when the end of the "straw" was submerged in the liquid propane, it would start blowing "white smoke" as liquid propane boils off into vapor instantly when it hits the outside atmosphere... you'd then quickly close the tiny bleeder valve, and look at the level indicator on the gauge, which showed how much liquid was in the tank. Then you turned it up to the top of the tank again for next time. Some tanks, like an old propane Farmall Super M I had one time, had a little dial "fuel gauge" in the side of the tank, covered by a pressure-sealed glass and metal top so you could read it, with a tiny float inside that indicated the liquid level... but those usually quit working after a few years when the float went kaput. We used to run our Ford's on vapor, unless you were doing heavy work... of course that was in 95-98 degree summer temperatures here in Texas, where the tanks get hot and stay hot and there's no shortage of heat to boil the propane in the tank into vapor... As long as you were just raking hay or something light duty, then propane would boil in the tank enough to keep the pressure up to the fuel mixer (a propane carburetor is called a "mixer"), but if you were doing heavy work, you needed to switch over to liquid, or if the weather was cold, which doesn't put enough heat into the tank to keep the propane boiling off fast enough to keep the pressure up. Closing the vapor line and opening the liquid line sends liquid propane to the vaporizer, that round thing you pointed to in the video, which is designed like two intertwined snail shells-- the liquid propane goes through one of the passages, and the other passage has hot engine coolant passing through it, so basically it's like walls with hot coolant on one side and cold liquid propane on the other side-- the hot coolant boils off the liquid propane into vapor and then feeds that vapor up to the mixer to combine it with air going into the engine. Propane tractors and vehicle last nearly forever as well, because propane burns SO clean-- no carbon or other junk produced as combustion byproducts that end up as grit wearing out the engine. Propane basically produces mostly water vapor as exhaust, with some carbon dioxide and maybe a little carbon monoxide as well, and some NOX. VERY clean compared to gasoline... The biggest drawback to propane is that it is not as "energy dense" as gasoline, which itself isn't as energy dense as kerosene (distillate), which is less energy dense than diesel fuel. Basically what this means is, just as an example, if it takes say 2 gallons of diesel to do a given amount of work, it'll take maybe 3 gallons of gasoline, or 4 gallons of propane, or 5 gallons of methane, which is a lighter molecule with less energy density than propane. That's another big drawback with CNG vehicles-- it takes a LOT more fuel to do the same work, but storage is MUCH harder since it's an extremely high pressure gas. It's also why that tractor has such a large fuel tank for the propane-- that amount of propane probably gave it about the same "hours between refueling" as a gasoline or diesel tractor with a much smaller tank, because it takes less gallons of gasoline or diesel to do the same work as more gallons of propane. Friend of my brother, his family ran propane powered cotton pickers-- they had a 200 gallon propane bulk tank, like you'd see in the yard behind someone's house for heating and cooking, on wheels so they could pull it behind the pickup truck, to haul propane down to the fields to refuel cotton pickers in the field-- those things take a LOT of fuel, too! Later! OL J R :)
Thanks for the video. I just got a Farmall 404. I was wondering if i could fill from a 20 lb bottle, then i found your video. Now I need to get a hose like yours.
Ok Wes 20 lbs tanks are normally fill 15lbs, 16 would be max due to 80% rule for compressed gases. Now if your tractor tank is at 0% , using the method you did, you might get over 50% of the bottle(20lbs) , due to fact tractor tank is larger. With out a pump, both tanks will equal in pressure leaving some still in smaller bottle. If ya don't believe me weigh the bottle before and after the fill. If you use a second bottle, after first more will stay in the bottle. Weigh them out. If your gonna run tractor much , n not gonna invest in 500# pig n pump, invest in 100# bottle. Use same process, copper tubing , has been used for years for transfer . You need to build a stand to stand it up side down. Used ones are available. If you work it hard you'll find on what you put in, you'll soon run out. They are fuel efficient, but will go thru it. Have a great day. Wes
Pretty cool Wes. Never been around an LP tractor, so I know nothing about them. I have dealt with tow motors in the factory I work in and filling their propane tanks. It a little different process but similar.
My grandfather in Blackwell texas had many Deere’s over the years but the 730 was the one I used to plow some of his fields with when I was a young man and visiting. They used propane for heating the house and water, cooking etc. he also filled his tractors off the same tank. He even even aired up his tires with that gas vapor. I wondered how safe that was.
Hey Wesley I like your 730. I haven't seen any lpg tractors in new zealand but the refill bottle here costs around $16 USD to fill were as diesel is $3.30per gallon
you need to just get a tank and pump at home then you dont need the propane man Wes. We had a MM M602 LPG tractor. was nice to have a tank to fuel the tractor at home
My grandfather had a butane JD 4020 in the 1960s. It wasn't a real issue. He had a hose attached to a 500 gallon tank of butane that supplied gas to the house.
.015" is a really small gap. The old "standard" plug gap for breaker point ignition used to be .025". It's curious why they call for such a small plug gap. Maybe a lower coil output? I would get some time on it under a good load, and pull the plugs to see if they are running hot or cold. Too hot will lead to detonation, too cold will result in fouling. Funny, haven't really thought about that stuff in years. Modern engines with electronic ignition and fuel injection have taken all the fun out of playing with gas engines.
propane ignites easier than gas and you use a colder plug and its also very clean so you change the oil every 300 or 400 hours instead of 100 hours like with a gas engine
get yourself a trailer mounted tank with a liquid siphon tube. Fill it on the liquid side only and use the hose you have already for a vent while filling. This ensures no air is trapped in the system, forces the tank to rapidly transfer liquid to the tractor and is the correct and safe way to fuel lp tractors. Lp is very safe to handle when done properly.
Put a Pertronix electronic ignition on it, a set of spiral core plug wires, a 12 volt coil, set the plug gaps to .035 in. and you won't believe it's the same tractor. No more junk points to deal with, starts a lot easier and a lot more power. The point type ignition system (especially if it's 6 volt ) was the weak spot of an LP engine. Less cabon in the fuel makes it harder to light. You also want to completely open liquid valve when running to back seat valve to prevent leaking around valve. You should only have to use vapor side to start if there is only water in the cooling system when thr engine is cold so the regulator doesn't freeze. With antifreeze in the system, it's not a problem. I start and run my A/C WD45 LP on liquid all the time, even when outside temps are well below freezing and never have a problem with the regulator and she starts and runs fine. I took classes at community college on LP installation, setup and repair and worked on LP powered for 10 years. Let me know if you have any questions. Have fun with it!
Old spark plug gap for breaker point ignition used to be .035. On my high compression high rpm 283v8 I used .025 to get better ignition. At torque peak the cylinder pressure is highest and takes the most voltage to jump the spark gap. If you can not come up with more voltage, it helps to use a bit less gap. propane has very high octane rating. The reason the tractor puts out so much power is because it runs very high compression. There is less heat energy in a gallon of propane than in a gallon of gas. But that can be compensated for by using high compression. When ever a gas engine is converted to dual or straight propane and the compression is not increased. Then power, and mileage go down compared to gasoline. Its all in the "propane/butane" power engineering manuals.
You could heat up the small tank and it will go right in or Run it on vapor for awhile until the tractor tank gets cold. Or if it's winter up there and you can take the small tank inside for awhile it will warm up and go right in. It behaves just like freon. It goes to where it gets cold.
LPG was real popular in areas that had oil wells because the stuff was a byproduct of gas/diesel production and there wasn't a large market for it at the time. Now that has changed and LPG is a commonly used fuel and the price is high enough that gas/diesel are cheaper options.
Hi Wes maybe next time you fill that tractor from a small tank you will of met George, and he will give you a pair of those fancy gloves he uses. I got frost bite off the propane for the grain drier we used to run, Wasn't nice for a few days!. How do you like those Radial BKT tires?, The local tire guy is suggesting I put 4 of them on my Valtra instead of those junk Michelin's.
Thanks for showing how to fill the tractor with propane. The value that liquid gets filled, is also the same fitted that fill Rvs ( motor homes). Anywhere that fills propane can fill your tractor onelonelyfarm. The reason I know is that fill propane at my work. Which is Lumberjack , in New Baltimore, Michigan. I just thought you would want to know you could get your tractor fill like that.
Our propane delivery lady wears gauntlet gloves, long leg Carhartt pants, full face shield, heavy boots and places a fire extinguisher next to what she's filling up. I'm not sure what the bottle of soapy water is for.
reminds me of filling a fork lift. your right about the water. warms the liquid lp to vaporize it. Why a cold fork lift won't run till the water gets warm.
cool...i could never wear shorts on the farm...tim must have leather legs....hows his skid marks from the little bike flop? propane last longer than diesel ?
+Nichols Hay Farm LP it also has a touch of acetone in it too to keep it from freezing up regulators in the winter. Personally I think kind of adds to the bitter sharp smell of it too
He got it all paint up and fixed and I've never seen it working - I don't know if something is wrong with it or not - I thought he would be hauling that hay with it - just curious
+TheOutdoorsmansAutomotive john deere had variety of fuel options thru the years. the letter series had all fuel models. you had 2 fuel tanks one small gas tank for starting then a large all fuel tank you could put gas, kerosene, diesel, disalate (no longer available). everything besides the gas was cheap fuel then john deere came up with the propane tractors and propane was the cheap fuel of that time. you would have a big tank of propane on the farm and you would fill it with the connection tim didn't use
tractorboy31 ok that makes sense. I've worked on natural gas cars and trucks and they burn with no carbon deposits and when u drain the oil it looks almost as good as when u put it in 3000 miles ago, so it cuts down on the wear of the engine,so I bet these propane tractors will last forever lol
that propane will freeze the hell outta your fingers ... a barn i work on has to old chevy silage trucks that run off propane and uses them all the time . Fixin to go finish hauling sawdust with one of them here shortly
Presuming you have a horizontal propane tank at home 250 gallon or bigger you can have a small electric pump installed to Refuel your propane powered vehicles easily with liquid instead of vapor. Kindly use heavy gloves when fueling leg as it can save your Hand severely damaged skin as u know propane in vapor or liquid can kill skin rapidly We need to protect The deprived operator who can't get out of the seat so he doesn't hurt himself permanently I burned my fingers The first time by unhooking a lpg nozzle with my bare hands took 5 months for all the dead skin to heal still hurts to this day.
I'm possibly wrong, but I don't think that is a 40 gallon tank on that tractor. I fill propane tanks and the big 100 pound tanks only hold about 25 gallon. So a 40 gallon tank would have to be almost 60 percent bigger than the 100 pound tanks. I don't think it looks that big.
I drove trucks back in the late 70's when trucks and cars were starting to change over to LPG. They seem to have good power but not very good milage as a diesel truck the same size. They started all this conversions I guess because LPG was much cheaper even if you didn't get good milage.
Doesn't take Wes long to handle a gas regulator, and that friends is why your fridge works. Tim is like me, he has Ironitess. That's where the iron in your blood turns to lead and settles in your rear
Thats one way to do it with un fredly propane dealers. I have a good dealer by me he set up my propane tank for the house to fill my tractors. He will also fill them with the bulk truck if im at farm away frome home.
one problem new 20 tanks have check valve yours is old type can't refill those .new one has tri.valve handle no vapor upside down unless you fill yourself
Why dont you get a 5 ton bulk propane tank and a transfer pump to fuel that thing. That way the gas company just needs to fill the bulk tank once in a while. I have seen many company's using propane for fork trucks that way.
No wonder they didn't make many propane tractors; who'd want to go through that everytime you need fuel. Even if the propane company will come out to fill it, it's still a hassle and you'll always run out at the worst spot and time possible!
Assuming you meant fold one sheet twice to get 4 thicknesses, that would give you about 12 thousandths (4 times .003), probably too tight a gap. Of course you could fold one sheet twice to make 4 thicknesses, and then tear off a corner or a strip and add it in to get 5 sheets. Just make sure you don't use the folds themselves, that part will be thicker than just the folded sheets. If you folded one sheet 4 times you would have 16 thicknesses, which would be way too much.
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I love when you show your old tractors..keep it up..I love the way they sound !!!
Thanks, Wes. That's actually how I did it the one time I did my 720. It's just that we used a longer and bigger hose, about 10 feet long. Same fill procedure, but the bleed off after filling was a LOT more dramatic, to say the least.
I have done a bit of tuning with propane using our multiple spark ignitions. Not an expert by any means but we've had some success over other systems. I am told (and tests supported) that LP likes a bit more timing than our gasoline burning customers. Great video. I was referred by a friend so I'm subscribing!
Thanks for explaining and demonstrating that procedure.
I always wondered how you do that, thanks for sharing Wes! Great tractor
Tim is unprepared? He had the hose in one hand and the tank sitting right behind him. Leave Tim alone! We're forming a Tim Rules fan club so you'd better start treating him better!
I got that all together before we steered to film lol
And you told Tim to wait while you turned the lights on because the lighting was inadequate. So, tell me again how unprepared Tim was.
I'd like to be a member of the club.
lol, just remember there are a lot of us Tim fans out there ready to stick up for him!
Sign me up too.. Tim's a good kid. Good family ties all around Wes.
Always wanted to see how LP tractors fuel system works! Cool video
hey Wes if you have a propane tank at your place you can get all the hoses and fittings to fill it up. If the law will allow it back east. here in western Kansas tons of tractors ran on LP back in the sixties. If you are going to work the tractor fuel consumption will probably be startlingly high compared to a diesel. a lot of the old LP MM Oliver Case and IH tractors around here had auxiliary after market tanks put on top of the front weights and old car frames would have thousand gallon LP tanks put on them and hauled to the field, we still have 2. My uncle remembers when his dads brother about lost it when LP went from a penny and a half a gallon to three cents. nice tractor keep it up.
the smell of propane is a added smell called Methyl Mercaptain ,propane tanks are filled to 80 percent ,---- great video
That fitting is called an Emerson Fisher coupling. The one you are using here is probably the vapor return coupling. There is also one called a liquid fill coupling. Not sure what the physical difference is, there are no pictures or drawings of the internals, but at least people should be able to find these. The square threads are called Acme threads, female type, 1-3/4", I believe. The other end is male NPT, probably a 1".
good vid never seen that done before. thee ol 730 looks good with the new sneaks!
the reason you get more power when sending the liquid to the converter is that when it gets there and the heat from the water changes it state, it expands 270 times. Now you have a ton of vapor not the puny little amount you start it on. I have a vehicle that I run on propane and it will idle all day on vapor even when you are "out" of gas. Really weird, it idles, but if you step on the gas it just goes blah, then you let off and it idles fine again. Tim really should wear gloves.
Hank hill whould love this☺️
Thanks Wes It was a good video, Thanks for the lesson, I've worked on a lot of forklifts over the years but the tank looked pretty solidly mounted not like a forklift bottle.
Yep propane is a "dry" vapor, unlike gasoline which is a "wet" vapor, and easier to ignite.
We used to run butane/propane powered Fords-- a Golden Jubilee and an NAA. Grandpa farmed with them all through the 50's and 60's. They were gasoline from the factory, but he had them converted over to butane because gasoline was 6 cents a gallon at the time (for farm gas) and butane was 3 cents a gallon... LOL:)
Butane/propane is an excellent motor fuel, because it has the equivalent of 110 octane naturally. That means the compression ratio can be MUCH higher in the engine, which leads to greater efficiency (but increases combustion temperature, creating NOX emissions, which the gubmint and treehugging sumbitches don't like). That's one reason diesel engines are SO much more efficient-- the higher compression ratio. Anyway, unlike natural gas, which has to be stored as an extremely high pressure gas (CNG, or compressed natural gas) in cylinders (which makes fueling and service difficult), propane/butane is stored as a liquid (LPG, or liquified petroleum gas). Methane, a lighter molecule that makes up natural gas, requires deep cryogenic temperatures a couple hundred degrees below zero to become liquid, and has to be refrigerated to prevent the pressure from getting so high it blows up the tanks and lines (LNG, or liquified natural gas). Since propane can be stored at a liquid easily with much lower and safer pressure, it's easier to store sufficient quantities to operate a vehicle like a tractor or truck effectively. Since propane boils at about 39-40 degrees below zero (IIRC from memory), it must be stored in a pressurized tank at normal temperatures, but the pressure is much lower and safer than CNG systems.
The big hose fitting is the liquid fill fitting on the tank, and the small one is the vapor vent fitting. You COULD have your propane company install a liquid draw valve and hose and valve fitting on your propane tank (if yall use propane on the farm and have a bulk tank) and fill the tractor yourself from there.
Filling from a bulk tank, you open both the dust caps on the tractor tank, open the liquid withdrawal valve on the bulk tank, then "crack" the fill valve on the end of the hose to blow out any dust or bugs like spiders-- you want to make sure the hose and connections are VERY clean before hooking up. Then you screw the large liquid hose valve onto the tractor's large fitting. Then you open the liquid fill valve on the end of the hose to allow liquid to flow from the bulk tank to the tractor fuel tank. We had the smaller bleeder valve like you had, but the end was just open... you'd then screw that on to the smaller bleeder valve to vent pressure from the tank, allowing more liquid to be pushed from the bulk tank up the hose and into the tractor tank-- once the pressure equalizes, the liquid stops flowing, so to make it keep flowing you have to vent some vaporized propane from the top of the tractor tank to lower the pressure so more liquid can flow in. The little tiny screw valve you opened up top is a "gauge valve" to let you know when the tank is full-- when you open it and liquid propane squirts out and instantly flashes over to vapor (white smoke) you know the tank is full. Our tractors had a "dipper straw" type fuel level gauge on the side of the tank-- it had a little bleed screw like that which you opened, letting a little propane vapor (which is clear) blow out, then you turned a lever behind it that dipped a little straw connected to the bleed valve inside the tank, lowering it down from the top of the tank... when the end of the "straw" was submerged in the liquid propane, it would start blowing "white smoke" as liquid propane boils off into vapor instantly when it hits the outside atmosphere... you'd then quickly close the tiny bleeder valve, and look at the level indicator on the gauge, which showed how much liquid was in the tank. Then you turned it up to the top of the tank again for next time. Some tanks, like an old propane Farmall Super M I had one time, had a little dial "fuel gauge" in the side of the tank, covered by a pressure-sealed glass and metal top so you could read it, with a tiny float inside that indicated the liquid level... but those usually quit working after a few years when the float went kaput.
We used to run our Ford's on vapor, unless you were doing heavy work... of course that was in 95-98 degree summer temperatures here in Texas, where the tanks get hot and stay hot and there's no shortage of heat to boil the propane in the tank into vapor... As long as you were just raking hay or something light duty, then propane would boil in the tank enough to keep the pressure up to the fuel mixer (a propane carburetor is called a "mixer"), but if you were doing heavy work, you needed to switch over to liquid, or if the weather was cold, which doesn't put enough heat into the tank to keep the propane boiling off fast enough to keep the pressure up. Closing the vapor line and opening the liquid line sends liquid propane to the vaporizer, that round thing you pointed to in the video, which is designed like two intertwined snail shells-- the liquid propane goes through one of the passages, and the other passage has hot engine coolant passing through it, so basically it's like walls with hot coolant on one side and cold liquid propane on the other side-- the hot coolant boils off the liquid propane into vapor and then feeds that vapor up to the mixer to combine it with air going into the engine.
Propane tractors and vehicle last nearly forever as well, because propane burns SO clean-- no carbon or other junk produced as combustion byproducts that end up as grit wearing out the engine. Propane basically produces mostly water vapor as exhaust, with some carbon dioxide and maybe a little carbon monoxide as well, and some NOX. VERY clean compared to gasoline...
The biggest drawback to propane is that it is not as "energy dense" as gasoline, which itself isn't as energy dense as kerosene (distillate), which is less energy dense than diesel fuel. Basically what this means is, just as an example, if it takes say 2 gallons of diesel to do a given amount of work, it'll take maybe 3 gallons of gasoline, or 4 gallons of propane, or 5 gallons of methane, which is a lighter molecule with less energy density than propane. That's another big drawback with CNG vehicles-- it takes a LOT more fuel to do the same work, but storage is MUCH harder since it's an extremely high pressure gas. It's also why that tractor has such a large fuel tank for the propane-- that amount of propane probably gave it about the same "hours between refueling" as a gasoline or diesel tractor with a much smaller tank, because it takes less gallons of gasoline or diesel to do the same work as more gallons of propane.
Friend of my brother, his family ran propane powered cotton pickers-- they had a 200 gallon propane bulk tank, like you'd see in the yard behind someone's house for heating and cooking, on wheels so they could pull it behind the pickup truck, to haul propane down to the fields to refuel cotton pickers in the field-- those things take a LOT of fuel, too!
Later! OL J R :)
My man wrote a whole chapter, good writing tho
Thanks for the video. I just got a Farmall 404. I was wondering if i could fill from a 20 lb bottle, then i found your video. Now I need to get a hose like yours.
It is nice to see there were alternate fuels when this tractor came out to show people that LPG powered vehicles weren't necessarily from this century
nice tractor. it's hard to believe that propane tractor has more power than my 720 diesel
Ok Wes 20 lbs tanks are normally fill 15lbs, 16 would be max due to 80% rule for compressed gases.
Now if your tractor tank is at 0% , using the method you did, you might get over 50% of the bottle(20lbs) , due to fact tractor tank is larger.
With out a pump, both tanks will equal in pressure leaving some still in smaller bottle. If ya don't believe me weigh the bottle before and after the fill. If you use a second bottle, after first more will stay in the bottle. Weigh them out.
If your gonna run tractor much , n not gonna invest in 500# pig n pump, invest in 100# bottle.
Use same process, copper tubing , has been used for years for transfer . You need to build a stand to stand it up side down.
Used ones are available. If you work it hard you'll find on what you put in, you'll soon run out. They are fuel efficient, but will go thru it.
Have a great day. Wes
Pretty cool Wes. Never been around an LP tractor, so I know nothing about them. I have dealt with tow motors in the factory I work in and filling their propane tanks. It a little different process but similar.
My grandfather in Blackwell texas had many Deere’s over the years but the 730 was the one I used to plow some of his fields with when I was a young man and visiting.
They used propane for heating the house and water, cooking etc. he also filled his tractors off the same tank. He even even aired up his tires with that gas vapor.
I wondered how safe that was.
many people fill them from their bulk 500 lb tanks.
Now just to get it painted.... Id have fun doing that.
+Northern farmer why it's fine
Northern farmer it's wearing it's work clothes
Rover 200 cause I like painting
Rickie McKillip lol I suppose
Man gotta love the ole Johnnys my grampa has a 520 and my wife's grampa has an A
Thanks for showing how to fill the propane tank I have been wondering how you did that for months......
Hey Wesley I like your 730. I haven't seen any lpg tractors in new zealand but the refill bottle here costs around $16 USD to fill were as diesel is $3.30per gallon
Thanks for the video, always wondered how these things were filled up. Propane tractors are cool and are pretty fuel efficient but kind of...goofy
i liked 730s to start with but that makes me love it even more
you need to just get a tank and pump at home then you dont need the propane man Wes. We had a MM M602 LPG tractor. was nice to have a tank to fuel the tractor at home
My grandfather had a butane JD 4020 in the 1960s. It wasn't a real issue. He had a hose attached to a 500 gallon tank of butane that supplied gas to the house.
.015" is a really small gap. The old "standard" plug gap for breaker point ignition used to be .025". It's curious why they call for such a small plug gap. Maybe a lower coil output? I would get some time on it under a good load, and pull the plugs to see if they are running hot or cold. Too hot will lead to detonation, too cold will result in fouling. Funny, haven't really thought about that stuff in years. Modern engines with electronic ignition and fuel injection have taken all the fun out of playing with gas engines.
I thought it was the other way around? You put a hot plug in a cold car, and a cold plug in a hot car! No, you're right!!
propane ignites easier than gas and you use a colder plug and its also very clean so you change the oil every 300 or 400 hours instead of 100 hours like with a gas engine
get yourself a trailer mounted tank with a liquid siphon tube. Fill it on the liquid side only and use the hose you have already for a vent while filling. This ensures no air is trapped in the system, forces the tank to rapidly transfer liquid to the tractor and is the correct and safe way to fuel lp tractors. Lp is very safe to handle when done properly.
Good job Tim!
Put a Pertronix electronic ignition on it, a set of spiral core plug wires, a 12 volt coil, set the plug gaps to .035 in. and you won't believe it's the same tractor. No more junk points to deal with, starts a lot easier and a lot more power. The point type ignition system (especially if it's 6 volt ) was the weak spot of an LP engine. Less cabon in the fuel makes it harder to light. You also want to completely open liquid valve when running to back seat valve to prevent leaking around valve. You should only have to use vapor side to start if there is only water in the cooling system when thr engine is cold so the regulator doesn't freeze. With antifreeze in the system, it's not a problem. I start and run my A/C WD45 LP on liquid all the time, even when outside temps are well below freezing and never have a problem with the regulator and she starts and runs fine. I took classes at community college on LP installation, setup and repair and worked on LP powered for 10 years. Let me know if you have any questions. Have fun with it!
Old spark plug gap for breaker point ignition used to be .035. On my high compression high rpm 283v8 I used .025 to get better ignition. At torque peak the cylinder pressure is highest and takes the most voltage to jump the spark gap. If you can not come up with more voltage, it helps to use a bit less gap. propane has very high octane rating. The reason the tractor puts out so much power is because it runs very high compression. There is less heat energy in a gallon of propane than in a gallon of gas. But that can be compensated for by using high compression. When ever a gas engine is converted to dual or straight propane and the compression is not increased. Then power, and mileage go down compared to gasoline. Its all in the "propane/butane" power engineering manuals.
When our company converted our fork lifts to propane, there was a noticeable loss of power and the engine wouldn't rev up like it did on gas.
That hard to get fitting looks like the standard propane fitting used on a lot of industrial fork lifts unless the thread pattern is different.
It's a standard fitting
If you put a warm towel on the propane bottle it will push more pressure into the tractor tank. We use this process in HVAC recovery.
That gap is the same thickness of five pieces of notebook paper.
Do you think you will be able to get some footage of the tractor pull? That would be really cool!
Wes, why not get like a 250 gallon propane tank on the farm to fill the 730?
You could heat up the small tank and it will go right in or Run it on vapor for awhile until the tractor tank gets cold. Or if it's winter up there and you can take the small tank inside for awhile it will warm up and go right in. It behaves just like freon. It goes to where it gets cold.
dam neat vid Wes!
Just like filling a propane tank!!
Very cool, thanks for sharing!
LPG was real popular in areas that had oil wells because the stuff was a byproduct of gas/diesel production and there wasn't a large market for it at the time. Now that has changed and LPG is a commonly used fuel and the price is high enough that gas/diesel are cheaper options.
You teased us about taking that tractor to a pull at the county fair. Is there a video about that? What happened at the fair?
good video my grandma owns a propane business in Michigan
Thats right get them old tractors out an work them good for them an us!!!
Hi Wes maybe next time you fill that tractor from a small tank you will of met George, and he will give you a pair of those fancy gloves he uses. I got frost bite off the propane for the grain drier we used to run, Wasn't nice for a few days!. How do you like those Radial BKT tires?, The local tire guy is suggesting I put 4 of them on my Valtra instead of those junk Michelin's.
Thanks for showing how to fill the tractor with propane. The value that liquid gets filled, is also the same fitted that fill Rvs ( motor homes). Anywhere that fills propane can fill your tractor onelonelyfarm. The reason I know is that fill propane at my work. Which is Lumberjack , in New Baltimore, Michigan. I just thought you would want to know you could get your tractor fill like that.
Our propane delivery lady wears gauntlet gloves, long leg Carhartt pants, full face shield, heavy boots and places a fire extinguisher next to what she's filling up. I'm not sure what the bottle of soapy water is for.
Sky King check for leaks
reminds me of filling a fork lift. your right about the water. warms the liquid lp to vaporize it. Why a cold fork lift won't run till the water gets warm.
Awesome always wondered how they get filled up. Most now days are diesel or gas . Does that start up easy in cold weather ?
cool...i could never wear shorts on the farm...tim must have leather legs....hows his skid marks from the little bike flop?
propane last longer than diesel ?
Nice looking old machine! When did you get this one? Dis I miss a video on it?
How did you do with the rain from Hermine?
We usually need to change our portable propane tanks every 10 years, what happens with the tank of that Tractor?
thanks for the video wes
Thank you for showing us
I noticed that the tractor didn't have a 3 point hitch on the back, and wondered how you hook up such equipment for that?
i took it off to loose weight for the pull.
I noticed that after watching another video.
do you have a rv sales or park close by they can fill propane tanks
did you know wes.. that natural gas straight from the ground has no smell.. so they put a additive to it so you can smell it...
Propane. It's called Mercaptan. It's only purpose is so we can smell a leak. Natural gas also.
+Nichols Hay Farm LP it also has a touch of acetone in it too to keep it from freezing up regulators in the winter. Personally I think kind of adds to the bitter sharp smell of it too
Are you sure its not the points setting that's .015 with a plug gap of .025 to .030? that would be the same as a lot of older cars.
What do you use that Mack truck for - don't see it used much ???? thanks
Wes has a few older videos on the R model. That is how I found his channel many years ago. I have been asking him to do a video on the Mack R.
He got it all paint up and fixed and I've never seen it working - I don't know if something is wrong with it or not - I thought he would be hauling that hay with it - just curious
What is the difference between the two valves, the liquid valve and the gas input valve on tractor. Why two valves.
Hey Wes what happened with the international loader I haven't seen it in any of your videos anymore
Is it expensive to fill and how much does it cost to fill?
Jason Shipley ruffly $20-30. Im guessing
what's the advantages of using propane over gas?
no wet line on propane house tank ?
too bad they don't make tractors like this anymore, what a great way too cut down on your fuel costs and emissions to boot!
Better get on that CAT Dozer engine swap before winter.
Have your propane supplier make a hose to transfer from your 1000 or 500 gallon bulk tank to the tractor Wes.
You can have the propane company provide a tank with a liquid fill option for filling your own tanks.
your favorite tractor? (on your farm)
LPG tanks for forklifts are designed to release liquid. See if you can get one from your local LP company.
what an awesome tractor! wonder how many they made like this
around 3500 730 propanes were made
+tractorboy31 so what was the selling point of these back in the day ... obviously more power but it seems like it would be a lot of hassle to fill up
+TheOutdoorsmansAutomotive
john deere had variety of fuel options thru the years. the letter series had all fuel models. you had 2 fuel tanks one small gas tank for starting then a large all fuel tank you could put gas, kerosene, diesel, disalate (no longer available). everything besides the gas was cheap fuel then john deere came up with the propane tractors and propane was the cheap fuel of that time. you would have a big tank of propane on the farm and you would fill it with the connection tim didn't use
tractorboy31 ok that makes sense. I've worked on natural gas cars and trucks and they burn with no carbon deposits and when u drain the oil it looks almost as good as when u put it in 3000 miles ago, so it cuts down on the wear of the engine,so I bet these propane tractors will last forever lol
Where can I buy that quick connect and what’s the proper name part number if ya have it
that propane will freeze the hell outta your fingers ... a barn i work on has to old chevy silage trucks that run off propane and uses them all the time . Fixin to go finish hauling sawdust with one of them here shortly
What's goin on with the Mack truck ??
Presuming you have a horizontal propane tank at home 250 gallon or bigger you can have a small electric pump installed to
Refuel your propane powered vehicles easily with liquid instead of vapor. Kindly use heavy gloves when fueling leg as it can save your
Hand severely damaged skin as u know propane in vapor or liquid can kill skin rapidly
We need to protect The deprived operator who can't get out of the seat so he doesn't hurt himself permanently I burned my fingers
The first time by unhooking a lpg nozzle with my bare hands took 5 months for all the dead skin to heal still hurts to this day.
My grandfather had a 70 and a 60 on LP
All others ran on tractor fuel
I'm possibly wrong, but I don't think that is a 40 gallon tank on that tractor. I fill propane tanks and the big 100 pound tanks only hold about 25 gallon. So a 40 gallon tank would have to be almost 60 percent bigger than the 100 pound tanks. I don't think it looks that big.
Also just to kinda help with a comparison you're 20 pound tank usually only holds about 4.5 gallon
How long roughly does a tank of propane last compaired to a tank of gas roughly?
I drove trucks back in the late 70's when trucks and cars were starting to change over to LPG.
They seem to have good power but not very good milage as a diesel truck the same size.
They started all this conversions I guess because LPG was much cheaper even if you didn't get good milage.
how long does 41 gal of propane last on that tractor???
Doesn't take Wes long to handle a gas regulator, and that friends is why your fridge works. Tim is like me, he has Ironitess. That's where the iron in your blood turns to lead and settles in your rear
I'm sorry to ask this but what would happen if it's all vapor
it will run out of vapor and stall.. it needs to run liquid and convert to gas.
Double check that you didn't overshoot the .015" gap. Too wide of a gap will cause missing/misfire.
If you were to blend off the valve on the green tank you should be able to get all the liquid out of the white tank
Where y'all from?
Thats one way to do it with un fredly propane dealers.
I have a good dealer by me he set up my propane tank for the house to fill my tractors.
He will also fill them with the bulk truck if im at farm away frome home.
You should try and see if propane guy when is refilling tank try to record it
one problem new 20 tanks have check valve yours is old type can't refill those .new one has tri.valve handle no vapor upside down unless you fill yourself
Propana, propane Ricky's lost the game
Why fix the handle screw at 5:30, just let it fall off somewhere in the hay field. Tim finger tightened it while it wobbled. LOL!
06:08 What's with the little Gremlin dancing around in there?
Why dont you get a 5 ton bulk propane tank and a transfer pump to fuel that thing. That way the gas company just needs to fill the bulk tank once in a while. I have seen many company's using propane for fork trucks that way.
No wonder they didn't make many propane tractors; who'd want to go through that everytime you need fuel. Even if the propane company will come out to fill it, it's still a hassle and you'll always run out at the worst spot and time possible!
Propane and propane accessories
Dammit Bobby! lol
One of my favorite shows.
But Charcoal Tastes Better!!
It's supposed to be carbon, not cabon, I use the 2 finger method to type and sometimes forget to proof read.
0.015" is the thickness of three human hair (if it matters). Tho in squatch terms that might be one or two?
Five sheets of standard weight (notebook) paper is about .015" thick.
Would it be OK to fold one sheet four times?
Assuming you meant fold one sheet twice to get 4 thicknesses, that would give you about 12 thousandths (4 times .003), probably too tight a gap. Of course you could fold one sheet twice to make 4 thicknesses, and then tear off a corner or a strip and add it in to get 5 sheets. Just make sure you don't use the folds themselves, that part will be thicker than just the folded sheets. If you folded one sheet 4 times you would have 16 thicknesses, which would be way too much.