I don't understand how some people would think Saitama, a man with no formal martial arts training, would beat a guy who dedicated his entire life to it through skill alone
He was probably making these videos while he was on hiatus and is releasing them now. If i had to guess, he's probably making more while pumping out videos he's already made.
One of my favorite things about the super manga is that it explains ultra instinct MUCH better than the anime by having roshi ask goku "when did martial arts become about who has the higher power level?" And then having him remember all the lessons his previous masters were teaching him which almost all centered around conservation of energy when moving and dodging, honing his martial arts technique rather than his physical power.
Thank you. I always liked they way Master Roshi gave Goku some advice to achieve Ultra Instinct. Now you may not like that Master Roshi Psuedo version of "Ultra Instinct" but master Roshi has done drunken boxing before.
@@warangelcpgamebreak no tbh i think the martial arts master whos like 100+ years old nowing how to do a pseudo ultra instinct makes perfect sense and reinforces the idea that ultra instinct is more of a technique than a form which the manga expands upon in the gas/granola arc.
The series gave a great example of that when Goku fought Freiza when he brought Freiza back from his hell. Freiza supposedly trained for the first time in his life, gained a new form and got ridiculously powerful. Freiza lost all his steam and lost the fight because he trained up to that form but didn’t train using that form.
People forget that classic Dragon Ball was a heavily inspired by real martial arts series, and it shows in how detailed martial art sequences are presented in the series.
@@romesrepublic Dragon ball and dragon ball Z shows the use of grappling many times. Often Goku or someone else gets put in a chokehold, (the famous Goku bites Frieza's tail scene) though you pretty much never see it in the Tenkaichi Budokai probably because it's a tournament, with rules. You are correct, in that grappling is very effective against human opponents, but in Dragon Ball as a whole many of Goku's foes don't need to breathe, and their physiology/circulatory systems might even be in their skeleton so choking them wouldn't really do much. Like do Frieza or Cell have a blood supply that could be cut off by strangling the neck? Neither of them appear to need to BREATHE, so maybe their biology isn't something that a chokehold would work on. And it certainly wouldn't work on the Androids/Cyborgs/Majiin Buu. Batman fucks people up like a Batman does. Goku fucks people up like an alien does.
@Tyler Thompson Aliens in the DBZ universe are a whole nother thing entirely. Frieza, Buu, and a lot of the others can survive in space, with half of their bodies missing. But if you made Goku a human, even with all of his training, skills, and experience, Batman would still destroy him with relative ease. Batman is bigger, stronger, longer reach, and has a more complete knowledge of martial arts than any of the Z fighters. You need powers to beat Batman, plain and simple. Even then, there's no guarantee you'll win unless you catch him completely off guard.
...straight up, I actually did learn a little bit about Goku and did gain a little respect for his hands, so well done. I would love to see someone animate Adam West's Batman beating Goku though, it'd be hilarious nonsense.
@@Kerwell I'd be ok with it if they didn't regress the character in Super in order to do it. Having him not know what meditation is, and having the empty mind which is taught by pretty much all basic eastern martial arts. I can't stand it.
@@JKurayami The mediation part is a stretch, I agree. They really wrote Goku to not know the roots of martial arts, lol. However, true mental emptiness in actuality is incredibly hard to achieve. It's easy to simulate some degree of it, but to completely leave out every single thought besides you, your opponent, and the battle you're in together is probably not even humanly possible (to the credit of Super).
Goku is VERY adaptable that’s one if his greatest feats in a real world. So anyone who fights him would have to constantly change up very quick constantly.
Batman has more intuition and has the same, if not more intution than Goku. This also has me beliveing that Batman would be the only human with Ultra Instinc if he was in dragonball. Hardwork in Dragonball takes you far
Which Batman is very capable off since he knows 50+ fighting styles plus variations of his own and is capable of adapting really damn well himself (to the point of defeating opponents such as Deathstroke,Lady Shiva and Cassandra Cain who can literally read,copy and predict movements)
Please never stop generating creative videos like this, turning shower thought like "what if" questions into actual detailed vids. I swear a Playlist of these would be like drinking crack with cookies.
I despise how much goku is underestimated when it comes to his martial arts skill. People just think he's a golden monkey shooty blue beam man. He's a martial arts master who has learned from countless masters. He'd also arguably still have the ability of reacting with his body and not his mind, so a ultra instinct sign is theoretically still fundamentally possible even if we grant no powers. Reacting with his body and not his mind has nothing to do with powers, so he'd arguably still have godly reaction.
all goku has to do is utilize his instincts and he has UI in base. We've seen that in the manga he doesn't have to transform to use the UI technique, so while he's not getting stronger, his reaction time will still be crazy.
Did you forget about Divine energy/God ki since its a angel level technique that is used to activate UI omen, sign, and Sayain Instinct (manga) as well as the aura which is seen the heat it caused within TOP arc in his final fight against Jiren and since Goku is using the technique improperly as stated by Whis UI for goku is a power up itself considering the negative side effects of stamina drain as the fight prolongs this is a fight with no powers LOL so it cannot be used even whis himself has demonstrated over and over using UI with no aura around him showing his TRUE mastery. And we have seen base goku get bruised on his arm from bullets in DBS anime episode 77 showing that he to has human level durability even the fact that a laser gun was able to almost kill a SSG blue fatigued Goku in "Resurrection of F Movie". Goku also drops his guard a lot of times showcasing his recklessness to which Whis and other have to point that out to him when they train seriously meanwhile batman is more polished, perfected, and resourceful a master tactician.
@@raphbolt7715 pretty sure Goku uses his ui as a regular ssj vs granolah but i may be misremembering. Goku being hit by the bullets is irrelevant as its filler.
This highlights my biggest problem with batman. He is not "human" and has not been for a very long time. Half of the things he does are physically impossible for a human regardless of technique or skill because our physiology has built-in limitations. Being smart enough to know where the god-like being moving at light speed is going to punch him won't help when he is being hit a million times before his brain can physically send the signal to his mussels to move. If he can somehow react to that, then by definition he is superhuman and thus no longer "human". It's exactly like his sneaking around superman feats. Superman has been shown to hear beyond dimensions so no amount of skill would make it possible for an actual human to go undetected. batman would somehow have to move without his neurons firing, without his mussels moving, without any internal biological functions occurring and without moving attoms to be that silent and no amount of skill makes that possible.
Ultra Instinct is based off of the Japanese term mushin. It's a meditative mental state. Artists, monks and martial artists have all described the act of getting so good at something, you don't think when you do do it. Your body thinks for you. That's mushin.
In other words, motor memories are stored as implicit memory, not declarative memory. Trying to use your conscious brain for motor tasks is basically accessing the wrong database. -SMBC Comics, "Conscious"
Goku could keep up with and adapt to martial Arts masters when he was a kid. That was before Korin's training where he could predict how his opponents are going to move by reading their breathing. Or Popo's training where he learned how to make his movements so effecient he can put on a bell and then do a flip without ringing it. Or how by the time we get to the Android saga he has lowkey telepathy can can search people's feelings. He has a huge bag of tricks that have nothing to do with power levels and that's not even factoring it that he's very experienced. Maybe not to the level of Batman but he's been around
Umm he said this in a stream but this been planned for like months for this month will get that elder ring video soon that one been a year jn the Making
I feel like a lot of Dragon ball vs Marvel/DC matchups are often a bit unfair to begin with. Dragon Ball is a series written by one guy over just a few decades with Long breaks inbetween, while Marvel and DC charatcers have been around almost twise as Long with multiple writers who all have different interpretations of the charatcers, ranking from keeping them more grounded and human to godlike and unstoppable people who can beat every character they come across. So the fact that Dragon Ball often loses these matchup shouldnt really come as that much of a surprise
The issue is each author is writing an alternative character. Adam west batman isn’t very powerful. But he is still batman. Early batman would struggle with some real humans. Modern batman is literally superhuman in feats
@@tillburr6799 Seth did briefly mention that. That in some stories, Batman is not really that powerful, but those stories still take place in the rebirth continuity, or the older continuities it spawned from. So we end up with a Batman that could basically solo some verses with just his martial art skills, not because of Seth is being biased, but because that is what happens when multiple people tackle the same charatcers and you have thousands of stories that all have to work together.
It works the other way as well. While DC/Marvel characters often have their weaknesses and their low points/limits depending on the writer DB characters are constantly getting stronger since the writer is constantly trying to one-up himself and introduce new even more powerful Villians that could easily oneshot the old ones and new forms for the characters to be able to defeat them.
@@digimonlover1632 true,but a new power or boost a DC character gets might get retconned with the next writer. While Dragonball character just constantly get stronger and stronger to the point of oneshotting themselves from the previous arc.
Yo I don't care what anyone says, the way Seth breaks down Goku and Batman Made perfect sense and trust me I am a huge Goku fanboy and I 100% agree with this outcome. I wish more people was as clear with there breakdowns of characters or at the very least made sense when doing so, thank you Seth for amazing videos and top tier quality of work we are all glad you're back.
@@Violent_Wolfen If this was a composite Batman that'd include the noncanon stuff, and non Canon stuff makes this an even bigger batman W. Seth just took the version of batman that has Canon feats.
During Gokus fight with ssj2 Caulifla, caulifla was actually 5 times gokus power level, but even with that he was able to keep up with her while being tired. Edit- she was actually 50x stronger
I was saying this exact same thing when Goku fought Cell Cell was easily 1.5-2x stronger than Goku was when they battled but Goku was able to keep up with raw power because of how skilled he is as a martial artist.
2:23 yeah, those people weren’t paying attention to what cell said about his battle instincts. I mean, he blatantly stated it. so the people that say he would just be a kickboxer or whatever, aren’t paying attention close enough.
The biggest thing here that Seth didn't touch on is the size difference. Bats is MASSIVE. And with all that skill and all that mass Goku if both were humans with no powers and stuff is just fighting at a severe disadvantage from the jump. The Wondy and Ares wank is SILLY but just being able to scrap with them and not get his chest caved in on a daily is impressive. Another thing Seth left out is how he scales to the other gods are martial arts in DC. Shiva and Richard Dragon both have reacted to lasers on multiple occasions. And Shiva has the ability to see react learn and counter any strike and technique after seeing it once. And Bats fights them fairly well often. That means that Bats has to throw a different strike every strike or Shiva runs right through him. The power scaling of humans in America cape stories just aren't fair for these types of fights.
He’s got 5-7 inches and about 25lbs on goku ( I’m not certain about the weight, but I know goku’s somewhere in between 5’7 and 5’9 (Vegeta’s like 5’2-5’5 so it could be slightly more))
Kinda wish Seth went over goku's techniques that aren't ki related like the afterimage technique or used statements in the manga and other sources that tell us what fighting style goku uses. It wouldn't change the outcome in the slightest just would've been nice to see.
“Batman has learned martial arts, and so does Goku, but Batman has learned *more* martial arts, so I think he’d probably beat Goku.” - Death Battle, probably
@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 Fr his tail? you mean the thing that has been gone for over 30 years? I didnt see goku rely on his tail in the cell games is all ima say lol.
Yeah because batman has 80 years of lore & multiple different writers. if they use their prime Canon forms it'll be true MUI Goku vs TBWL or Final armor Batman. Essentially a guy who can possibly punch away a universe, & shake a void for some minutes at best (goku) vs a guy who can rewrite the multiverse into whatever he likes (TBWL or Final armor batman) Not a fair fight, I don't see it being much of a challenge for batman to be honest.
I'd be down for a full blown tournament of skill at this type. Especially if it gives light to some Underrated characters in terms of skill (usually due to their strength of other abilities)
I feel like Goku takes it at a mid to high diff as I feel like he could adapt to Batman’s fighting styles. EDIT: shit I underestimated how skilled the caped crusader is lol
I love how unbiased you are with your content. While Goku is insanely gifted and adaptable, batman's entire character is based around using techniques, tools, intuition and intelligence to defeat gods. The only way i see Goku possibly winning is as you said, through submission techniques. However I'm sure batman has techniques to counter those or dislocate specific joints to set himself free etc. Goku can't even use hypnosis or drunken fist because batman has faces similar foes as well. So in about every scenario batman wins.
Isn’t Goku‘s whole thing to move the most optimally so that no matter how many fighting styles the opponent has, he’ll be able to counter it regardless which negs A high quantity of fighting styles to begin with? Pretty sure it’s said in between Master Roshi and Goku as well
batman is said to adapt too he legit made a new fighting style against a deadlier version of himself also told to predict when someone comes back from the future and his body moves on its own he is just better with 80 years of experience and 127 fighting styles
Speaking of Ares and Karate Kid, the two have actually fought and Ares said he was more skilled than himself, being so skilled he could fight an actual god.
SethTheProgrammer will be well-known as that guy who talked about fictional characters far more than the average person. Thank you, Seth. I will always know that Azathoth isn't the supreme being of H.P. Lovecraft.
@@dumbledorelives93 My favourite theory is that Nyarlathotep is impersonating every outer god and great old one (with his shape shifting ability), so he can basically toy around with the people's mind.
@@iisave8247 People say yogsothoth is acually a part of azathoth's dream, however that would mean that azathoth is aware of his own existence in the story of yogsothoth which wouldn't make sense as far as im aware because hes a blind idiot god with no consciousness or sentience.
I can tell you that Saitama would be put in the ground pretty dang fast. Garou even makes a point to comment on how untrained he is, and easy to read the moves of. His pure physically prowess just makes it impossible to fully react to his moves.
I think if we give Goku UI Omen it becomes a really interesting and drawn out match. They both have thrown hands with stronger opponents and put in work with just their raw skill, adaptability and precognition countless times. The problem here is that Batman has no super powers to speak of so he'd be at full power where-as many of the techniques and skills that Goku has mastered over his life-time would not be a tool in his arsenal anymore, much of which has been a focus of his training in recent time since he's fighting galaxy level threats; things that would even give Superman a run for his money. Batman is effectively fighting Karate Kid with Saiyan biology and quirks so he's heavily favored to win. Here's why I say that, Goku would be having the time of his life fighting someone as skilled as Bats and even if he saw an opportunity to bring the fight to an early close since there are no established stakes in this scenario (it's not like Bats is going to blow up the Earth or some nonsense) AND given that he's the type of person who LIVES TO BE PUSHED TO THE LIMIT OF HIS ABILITY he would intentionally draw out the fight as long as possible to get the most out of it. Goku is genuinely the type of guy to get his ass kicked and be back after eating a sensu bean asking for round 2 until he's got you figured out well enough that he can can beat your ass. So in a single bout this would almost certainly go to Batman but much like how he has his sights set on beating Beerus, Goku would eventually get the W on Bats even if it took him losing hundreds or thousands of times in the process.
Ultra Instinct, in my opinion, could be used in the context of "only martial arts, no power" as it's just instinctive movements due to Goku's incredible level and knowledge in martial arts, ignoring the godly power boost it gives in Dragon Ball Super
If I remember correctly in the manga version of the tournament of power Beerus and Whis comment on Roshi's fighting capabilities saying that it's almost ultra instinct.
I just stumbled upon your channel and I’m extremely impressed with the quality and substance of your work, Seth. Thanks, now I can binge more anime materials.
I honestly think UI counts as a power-up/power in this case, just because UI is used like a transformation later on in the manga. That and UI just gives Goku an INSANELY unfair advantage
In the manga, it’s treated as both. UI the technique can be used in any form, but UI the transformation is the last resort form. Just one that was established in the manga, the next two fights were literally miles stronger than Goku, so it wasn’t represented enough as a technique
If Batman was fighting a Goku who doesn't have transformation or kyo ken, then definitely everything Seth has said 100% valid facts. Also Batman has kept up with Superman who has laser eyes, so it would be alright if Goku uses his ki range attacks as long as Batman has full use of his gadgets. Even still, it comes down to Batman only being able to keep up with a base form Goku. Eventually, Goku would be overwhelming Batman simply with his Sayian biology. Goku would be getting stronger as they fight. But if we were to remove that factor from Goku, it would technically be a win for Batman in a full martial arts contest. He has fought and defeated human bases enemy who were physically and combat superior like Bane.
Seth put some respect on every character mentioned in this video. Also with the mention of Wonder Woman, could we get some mentions for her power scaling? I feel like she goes a bit underrated considering some of her feats.
Well which Wonder Woman specifically, cause DCEU WW for example is very sub-planetary while Infinite Frontier Wonder Woman on the other hand literally walks over the Omniverse(includes everything DC ever published in it's historty) like it's a street crossing XD? But a general rule of thumb for normal comic versions is that Wonder Woman is somewhere around a serious Supes, he is often physically stronger, has a more rounded inherent power-set and can fly faster, while she is often more skilled, more versatile due to her gear(her lasso alone has already countless of hax abilities at it's best) and can fight or at least react faster.
Batman actually probably knows more martial arts than goku, but he has shown on multiple occasions he can learn techniques from watching them(not master them but has the physical understanding to emulate them)
In this situation of both being just top level human Batman wins due to his skill. What really puts him ahead is his intellect. Everyone always asks the question, when they put Batman against anyone, “with, or without prep time” for a reason. He is a pure human that fights and wins against Gods
Seth forgot something that will turn this whole battle around… Gokus durability, in the classic, CLASSIC dragon ball anime KID goku was able to tank bullets from bulmas uzi without actually taking any physical damage, so in a real fight goku will adapt to anything batman throws at him and batman would do little damage because of gokus durability
Goku mastered martial arts so good he gained powers of angels it's so well he moves without thinking about it lol its so natural its like "Instincts" we also gotta realize goku blitzes batman easily
@@malvinyct2544 Supermans sparred with both Wonder Woman and Batman in h2h and were taught by them too.Infact Bruce was impressed of supermans fast adapting abilities
Goku is literally decades and decades of peak physical prowess and the mental grindset embodied in the practise of Martial Arts. I feel like it got a little... lost... during the mid to late DBZ episodes. But the fight with Kid Buu and a fair chunk of Super's late fights, show a LOT of that old Kame House and WMAT training, shining through.
Something else that would likely have Batman winning in a no powers fight against Goku, is size and reach, with Batman being at least 5-6 inches taller, which means a considerable reach advantage. This is if you consider stuff like boxing and mma in a realistic sense Edit: also the difference in body weight would be considerable. They would realistically be in completely different weight classes in combat sports
Batman will break his arms fighting kid Goku Goku is not a normal person he is still madly overpower without ki for a regular human have you not seen what happen to regular human when put up against the z fighters Goku could hold everything back and still kill batman
@@trevormcgregormiller765 I’m aware of this, the entire concept of the video is taking away superpowers and looking at fighting skill. I watched classic dragon ball, and kid Goku could easily wash batman when you give him his powers from classic dragon ball. That being said, I’m talking in a human on human sense, as this video was. This isn’t about who would win in a no holds barred fight.
@@taywil4496 will it's your opinion everyone as them. And calling me a weeb will why are you watching this video then about a anime character vs a cartoon comic character.?
all im going to say is, Goku as a child was not infusing his punches with ki and was still one punching full grown men and as a child could keep up with the best martial artist in the world
@@karshinp7896 That’s what we talking about?!?! Goku is a human in this fight so u saying thats goku natural strength is pointless cause we talking bout as if goku a regular human
I think Goku wouldn’t get UI since it’s an anime power, but instead he should get Mushin which is basically UI without the amps. His evolutionary adaptations would be improved however. Edit: I'm incredibly annoyed because currently around 20 of the 24 replies are saying how Goku in the manga and Anime can use UI MISSING THE POINT THAT THIS VIDEO ISN'T MANGA NOR ANIME GOKU. THIS IS A PEAK HUMAN WITH THE IQ AND SKILL OF GOKU. This peak human wouldn't be strong enough to use UI as Whis specifically stated for Goku to use 100% of UI he needs to transform to get stronger as his body is just too weak. So if a peak human tried to use UI he would explode the instant he activates it. So to be fair I just used to IRL UI which does very similar things, but instead of actually giving physical boosts it just gives mental boosts.
I would actually love to see Owl Man in his suit vs Goku. That’s actually on par basic strength wise since he could handle short bouts with power houses.
Batman has too much plot armor, theres no way a human can be that good at fighting. Thats ridiculous. Before batman even has a chance to throw a punch at someone like darkseid, darkseid could run around the planet multiple times and still kill batman. You could say batman would win this fight but its only because hes poorly written
@@sptflcrw8583 he said the pure amount of hours put into training, goku definitely trains more considering he's literally trained for years straight at one point
@@sptflcrw8583 I highly doubt it. Goku spends his casual time training, Goku literally lives and breaths training. I'm sure Bruce trains a ton on his off time but he's still Bruce wayne, I'm sure he's gotta make appearances at events and what not. Now let's tackle this "childhood training" argument of yours. You say Bruce trained his entire childhood... but so has Goku! Maybe not as non stop as you claim Bruce has but when we're first introduced to Goku in Dragonball, he was already trained by Grandpa Gohan. Goku was 12 when introduced in Dragonball but sent to earth at around 3. I unfortunately don't know when grandpa Gohan trained Goku though knowing dragon ball logic, Goku was taught at a very early age. At best that gives Goku 9 years of training at the age of 12, with Bruce at 4 years of training at 12. Even if it wasn't 9 years for Goku, Goku still has been training all of his childhood, he's trained a lot with Roshi, and even 3 years with kami. At BEST I can see Bruce beating Goku by maybe a year when it comes to childhood training, and this assumes the worst-case scenario for Goku's childhood training. After childhood, Goku literally trains so much it's crazy. At one point he trains for 7 years in otherworld between Cell saga and Buu saga. He's also trained a whole year in the room of spirit and time when training to fight cell, half a year running snake way and the other half training with king kai against the saiyans, 3 years for the androids, 3 years in super in the room of spirit and time for the universe 6 and 7 tournament, and a few more times in the room of spirit and time and in Whis' staff. Also Goku regularly trains on King Kais planet or at Beerus world with Whis. I'm sure I'm missing a ton more training moments but it's clear that Goku has a TON of training time. So yeah, I HIGHLY doubt Batman trains more with Goku, sorry. Now, I don't really read dc comics so it might very well be possible for Batman to train more than Goku, but I feel like you don't watch a lot of dragon ball either since you seem to think that Batman's childhood training is somehow an argument for Batman having more time in training than Goku.
Goku fans still gonna be mad about these “facts” THIS WOULD NEVER BE OFFICIAL STOP TALKING LIKE IT IS YES YOU KNOW GOKU BUT YOU DID NOT MAKE THE ANIME SO ITS NOT OFFICIAL YOU KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT GOKU BUT NOTHING ABOUT BATMAN YOU BASE THIS FIGHT OFF STRENGTH EVEN THOUGH ITS EQUALIZED If Batman has Goku’s strength then no one kills him. Be realistic, comic books are way more in depth than manga and anime so you’re really discrediting Batman.
People forget just how good of a martial artist Goku really is. Because he's so strong, people think his martial arts are second important. They're not. Ultra Instinct is the result of perfect martial arts skill.
@@adsfddsdfsfsdsasofsavgdhua4879 dude, you're the one who don't know what you're talking about. Ultra instinct IS the result of perfect martial arts, it's not just a power up like super saiyan. It's where you're so good at fighting that the body instinctively moves in the perfect way for you. You clearly didn't read the manga where Roshi actually achieved it for a short time and dodged Jirens attacks. If you dont believe me, look it up yourself.
@@adsfddsdfsfsdsasofsavgdhua4879 it kinda is but just put on the highest posible stage, havent you seen videos of people able to dodge things that move at such high speeds
@@adsfddsdfsfsdsasofsavgdhua4879 Funny your saying that, because Whis teaches UI to goku, by definition its the culmination of his training of martial arts with all his teachers, you obviously havent done any kind of research💀
Ultra Instinct is not the "art of throwing hands". It's based on Flow State. Moving without thinking. Bruce Lee often spoke of it. UI Sign/Omen was his body avoiding damage on its own, whereas he had to think about attacking. MUI is when he stopped thinking all together and simply moved. Whis talks about it numerous times. Not sure how you skipped that.
@@kawakiuzumaki5934 especially considering, as Seth pointed out in the video, Batman can also enter a flow state. Being able to use Ultra Instinct in this fight wouldn't give Goku an advantage, it would just make him equal to Batman.
No he wouldn't. He needs gadgets to win. Batman may know martial arts but he doesn't train as much as goku. He doesn't train with elite coaches and training partners like goku. All goku does is train and fight. Batman doesn't and because he's worried about his identity he can't train with the best fighters. Goku has won world and universal tournaments for fighing. Batman hasn't
@@thirtythree504 Cap, yes he does he beat Karate Kid and all his martial arts from across the galaxy and far future and can match a God with knowledge from the beginning of time
Lmao i have to disagree with that. Batman isn't even the best martial artist in his own universe, examples like Lady Shiva could beat him, and that's only within his own universe
The thing about ultra instinct is that goku can harden his body. I dont know if it would be allowed in a martial arts only battle but in his battle with moro, moro tried attacking goku but broke his own arm.
@@Omega-AlexGt I'm not saying that it's crazy but he hardened his body as a way to lessen damage. Moro broke his arm from just punching goku. In a battle with no powers that's actually a crazy feat. The body hardening is exclusive to UI meaning it would be allowed.
So this is completely off the topic but any thoughts on Accelerator vs Saitama? I thought my man Saitama had some human limits like not being able to breathe in space but after that Saitama vs Garou bit I don't know if my mans Accelerator's reflection can hold up to them punches my G.
Goku used ultra instinct in his normal forms in the granolah arc. So while he can't use his white haired form or omen, he can use those UI principles in base now.
@@youareacoward8459 read the manga again, Ultra Instinct is a technique AND a form. You can use Ultra Instinct the technique without using "chi"/ki because it uses martial art principles
@@youareacoward8459 That's not even remotely true as Roshi can begin to tap into UI without God-ki. Ki isn't required for UI, its just a state of being.
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Oh yeah
W
Can you do Naruto vs Natsu?
Could Batman learn Naruto’s ninjutsu?
Could Batman take down Wanda Maximoff?
Bonus points if you mention her blatant weakness to stealth attacks ala Cap. Carter.
I don't understand how some people would think Saitama, a man with no formal martial arts training, would beat a guy who dedicated his entire life to it through skill alone
Saitama has shown to copy techniques in the last few chapters.
Saitama shouldn't even be here he isnt a martial artist he did one tournament now he's somehow a martial artist 😂
@@fisal8942 he may copy them but does that mean he just has it mastered tho
@@fisal8942 he can't copy techniques anymore since he went back in time and forgot all about it
@@rabbunn when you copy a technique you can use it
I think we’re in a parallel world where your boy Seth uploads consistently. I’m all for it🙏
He wants that bag back up
That’s just how Seth works. He doesn’t upload for a couple month, then he spurts out uploads like a mad man. Wince and repeat.
December the best month for ad revenue
He said he was gonna upload at least 7 videos this month.
It’s just because of the Ad Revenue, but whatever eh?
Seth getting as many videos as he can in before he goes into hibernation again
😂😂😂
Yeah 4 month hiatus incoming for sure
Yeah, bro is snatching that increased December Revenue lol
he trynna get a million subscribers before 2023 😂😂😂
He was probably making these videos while he was on hiatus and is releasing them now. If i had to guess, he's probably making more while pumping out videos he's already made.
One of my favorite things about the super manga is that it explains ultra instinct MUCH better than the anime by having roshi ask goku "when did martial arts become about who has the higher power level?" And then having him remember all the lessons his previous masters were teaching him which almost all centered around conservation of energy when moving and dodging, honing his martial arts technique rather than his physical power.
Thank you. I always liked they way Master Roshi gave Goku some advice to achieve Ultra Instinct. Now you may not like that Master Roshi Psuedo version of "Ultra Instinct" but master Roshi has done drunken boxing before.
@@warangelcpgamebreak no tbh i think the martial arts master whos like 100+ years old nowing how to do a pseudo ultra instinct makes perfect sense and reinforces the idea that ultra instinct is more of a technique than a form which the manga expands upon in the gas/granola arc.
@@brawler8839 That's cool that somone appreciates that. I also took it as Toyotaro showing he appreciates Toriyama.
The series gave a great example of that when Goku fought Freiza when he brought Freiza back from his hell. Freiza supposedly trained for the first time in his life, gained a new form and got ridiculously powerful. Freiza lost all his steam and lost the fight because he trained up to that form but didn’t train using that form.
@@brawler8839 same I think it makes perfect sense and is a nice appreciation of Roshi
People forget that classic Dragon Ball was a heavily inspired by real martial arts series, and it shows in how detailed martial art sequences are presented in the series.
But Batman was a thing years before Dragon Ball...
Also, no one in the Dragonball universe seems to know how to grapple, only striking. Batman would just take them down and choke them out🤣
@@romesrepublic facts😂😂
@@romesrepublic Dragon ball and dragon ball Z shows the use of grappling many times. Often Goku or someone else gets put in a chokehold, (the famous Goku bites Frieza's tail scene) though you pretty much never see it in the Tenkaichi Budokai probably because it's a tournament, with rules.
You are correct, in that grappling is very effective against human opponents, but in Dragon Ball as a whole many of Goku's foes don't need to breathe, and their physiology/circulatory systems might even be in their skeleton so choking them wouldn't really do much.
Like do Frieza or Cell have a blood supply that could be cut off by strangling the neck?
Neither of them appear to need to BREATHE, so maybe their biology isn't something that a chokehold would work on.
And it certainly wouldn't work on the Androids/Cyborgs/Majiin Buu.
Batman fucks people up like a Batman does.
Goku fucks people up like an alien does.
@Tyler Thompson Aliens in the DBZ universe are a whole nother thing entirely. Frieza, Buu, and a lot of the others can survive in space, with half of their bodies missing. But if you made Goku a human, even with all of his training, skills, and experience, Batman would still destroy him with relative ease. Batman is bigger, stronger, longer reach, and has a more complete knowledge of martial arts than any of the Z fighters. You need powers to beat Batman, plain and simple. Even then, there's no guarantee you'll win unless you catch him completely off guard.
...straight up, I actually did learn a little bit about Goku and did gain a little respect for his hands, so well done. I would love to see someone animate Adam West's Batman beating Goku though, it'd be hilarious nonsense.
I love Adam Wests batman, that would be great.
Goku used to be mostly about martial arts but now's its mostly about forms are bigger sticks
@@dizzyheadstrue and I totally get why some people would dislike it for that reason, but I just like seeing my guy stomp baddies
@@Kerwell I'd be ok with it if they didn't regress the character in Super in order to do it. Having him not know what meditation is, and having the empty mind which is taught by pretty much all basic eastern martial arts. I can't stand it.
@@JKurayami The mediation part is a stretch, I agree. They really wrote Goku to not know the roots of martial arts, lol. However, true mental emptiness in actuality is incredibly hard to achieve. It's easy to simulate some degree of it, but to completely leave out every single thought besides you, your opponent, and the battle you're in together is probably not even humanly possible (to the credit of Super).
I swear Seth rly has recently come up with the most creative video ideas that I'm always interested in
Where 💀💀💀
@@visible8183 you’re commenting on one of them numbhead
Idk about that he doesn’t talk about other series I’m tired of db Naruto videos we need some new shit
Agreed. It's never just the same old stuff...
why are you eating his meat so bad..... martial arts only 1v1's are quite popular rn its not as if he single handedly thought of the concept himself
Man, Seth's content since his return has taken a huge step up in quality. I feel like the analysis he does now is really just next level.
Goku is VERY adaptable that’s one if his greatest feats in a real world. So anyone who fights him would have to constantly change up very quick constantly.
Which Batman is entirely capable of
Soo batman
Batman has more intuition and has the same, if not more intution than Goku. This also has me beliveing that Batman would be the only human with Ultra Instinc if he was in dragonball. Hardwork in Dragonball takes you far
Have you read the god of highschool manhwa jin mori is a beast.
Which Batman is very capable off since he knows 50+ fighting styles plus variations of his own and is capable of adapting really damn well himself (to the point of defeating opponents such as Deathstroke,Lady Shiva and Cassandra Cain who can literally read,copy and predict movements)
Please never stop generating creative videos like this, turning shower thought like "what if" questions into actual detailed vids. I swear a Playlist of these would be like drinking crack with cookies.
Ikr! I like my what if fan fics time to time but they really have ruined the true meaning if what if detailed analyst videos.
💀crack and cookies is bizarreee
I love how people are like, "Ok but who wins without powers" Goku is still a great martial artist and still a big problem without his Ki
I think we are putting Goku in the same level as Batman in this fight
@@JoJioArkhamCityEdition yeah and then only techniques matter and i think goku has more techniques than batman
@@DripNingen batman is far more skilled than Goku
Goku is highly skilled but batman definitely has the upper hand
@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 ???
@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 that is just... false?
This needs to be a whole series. Seriously I'm really interested in the next one
I despise how much goku is underestimated when it comes to his martial arts skill. People just think he's a golden monkey shooty blue beam man.
He's a martial arts master who has learned from countless masters.
He'd also arguably still have the ability of reacting with his body and not his mind, so a ultra instinct sign is theoretically still fundamentally possible even if we grant no powers. Reacting with his body and not his mind has nothing to do with powers, so he'd arguably still have godly reaction.
That's probably because most people haven't seen OG DB
@@crestofhonor2349 yup. Love og db for the skill and technique based fighting, also why I love kengan ashura.
all goku has to do is utilize his instincts and he has UI in base. We've seen that in the manga he doesn't have to transform to use the UI technique, so while he's not getting stronger, his reaction time will still be crazy.
Did you forget about Divine energy/God ki since its a angel level technique that is used to activate UI omen, sign, and Sayain Instinct (manga) as well as the aura which is seen the heat it caused within TOP arc in his final fight against Jiren and since Goku is using the technique improperly as stated by Whis UI for goku is a power up itself considering the negative side effects of stamina drain as the fight prolongs this is a fight with no powers LOL so it cannot be used even whis himself has demonstrated over and over using UI with no aura around him showing his TRUE mastery.
And we have seen base goku get bruised on his arm from bullets in DBS anime episode 77 showing that he to has human level durability even the fact that a laser gun was able to almost kill a SSG blue fatigued Goku in "Resurrection of F Movie". Goku also drops his guard a lot of times showcasing his recklessness to which Whis and other have to point that out to him when they train seriously meanwhile batman is more polished, perfected, and resourceful a master tactician.
@@raphbolt7715 pretty sure Goku uses his ui as a regular ssj vs granolah but i may be misremembering. Goku being hit by the bullets is irrelevant as its filler.
This highlights my biggest problem with batman. He is not "human" and has not been for a very long time. Half of the things he does are physically impossible for a human regardless of technique or skill because our physiology has built-in limitations. Being smart enough to know where the god-like being moving at light speed is going to punch him won't help when he is being hit a million times before his brain can physically send the signal to his mussels to move. If he can somehow react to that, then by definition he is superhuman and thus no longer "human". It's exactly like his sneaking around superman feats. Superman has been shown to hear beyond dimensions so no amount of skill would make it possible for an actual human to go undetected. batman would somehow have to move without his neurons firing, without his mussels moving, without any internal biological functions occurring and without moving attoms to be that silent and no amount of skill makes that possible.
lol thx you, Batman stopped being just "peak human" a long time ago
This might be why Amanda waller classifys batman as metahuman. It makes more sense this way rather than just a plot armor excuse
As a peak dbz nerd, this match is when goku and batman are on same speed and power output
Just texhnique
It's called Will and Determination
@@7heKl0wnG0D that's not how any of this works.
Cool. I also appreciate how you showed Goku’s martial arts prowess (which is pretty underrated).
I always gave Goku his props cuz the world tournaments are what got me into the franchise
Really good take. I never knew that much about Goku's technique and skill. Also great pacing in the video. Overall, another Seth W.
Seth posting almost daily is his Holiday gift to us. THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU DO SETH!
Ultra Instinct is based off of the Japanese term mushin. It's a meditative mental state. Artists, monks and martial artists have all described the act of getting so good at something, you don't think when you do do it. Your body thinks for you. That's mushin.
That's the exact same concept as Flow State.
In other words, motor memories are stored as implicit memory, not declarative memory. Trying to use your conscious brain for motor tasks is basically accessing the wrong database.
-SMBC Comics, "Conscious"
You heard wrong.. It's called Unagi..
@@HeadGodoftheGodCouncil It has a few different names. So no, I'm not wrong. Also, I don't think anyone calls it Unagi. Gtfo weeb
@@mrdavisdance Have you seen friends?
You've been killing it lately, Seth! Can't wait to see more
Goku could keep up with and adapt to martial Arts masters when he was a kid. That was before Korin's training where he could predict how his opponents are going to move by reading their breathing. Or Popo's training where he learned how to make his movements so effecient he can put on a bell and then do a flip without ringing it. Or how by the time we get to the Android saga he has lowkey telepathy can can search people's feelings. He has a huge bag of tricks that have nothing to do with power levels and that's not even factoring it that he's very experienced. Maybe not to the level of Batman but he's been around
He far more experienced than bat man it like comparing a elite world class boxing champion and amateur
@@jacobharris954 ?????
@@asta.7393 Goku is elite level master he is Floyd while batman youtube boxer in comparison. There levels to this.
@@jacobharris954 Wtf is vro talking about
@@asta.7393 Do you study martial artist, if you did you would understand
Yo, who dis man’s editor cuz manz been posting consistently💀
Umm he said this in a stream but this been planned for like months for this month will get that elder ring video soon that one been a year jn the Making
He releasing a bunch of videos this month since he was gone
Some TH-camr named Crisis.
@@xavierlehew6746 crisis kinda mid tuber was begging for views on his mg videos
I feel like a lot of Dragon ball vs Marvel/DC matchups are often a bit unfair to begin with. Dragon Ball is a series written by one guy over just a few decades with Long breaks inbetween, while Marvel and DC charatcers have been around almost twise as Long with multiple writers who all have different interpretations of the charatcers, ranking from keeping them more grounded and human to godlike and unstoppable people who can beat every character they come across. So the fact that Dragon Ball often loses these matchup shouldnt really come as that much of a surprise
The issue is each author is writing an alternative character. Adam west batman isn’t very powerful. But he is still batman. Early batman would struggle with some real humans. Modern batman is literally superhuman in feats
@@tillburr6799 Seth did briefly mention that. That in some stories, Batman is not really that powerful, but those stories still take place in the rebirth continuity, or the older continuities it spawned from. So we end up with a Batman that could basically solo some verses with just his martial art skills, not because of Seth is being biased, but because that is what happens when multiple people tackle the same charatcers and you have thousands of stories that all have to work together.
It works the other way as well. While DC/Marvel characters often have their weaknesses and their low points/limits depending on the writer DB characters are constantly getting stronger since the writer is constantly trying to one-up himself and introduce new even more powerful Villians that could easily oneshot the old ones and new forms for the characters to be able to defeat them.
@@OK-yy6qz Eh not really since the same thing happens a lot with comic book writers too even when there are different interpretations.
@@digimonlover1632 true,but a new power or boost a DC character gets might get retconned with the next writer. While Dragonball character just constantly get stronger and stronger to the point of oneshotting themselves from the previous arc.
I'd love to see more matchups in this context
Can Seth beat his new cellmate (martial arts only).
Nahhhh lmao 🤣
i hate that how rare it is to see actual complex technique in comics that feature martial arts so heavily
That’s the difference between manga fights and comic fights, Manga fights have a lot more detail and exposition
Read holyland, teppu, kengan ashura. Great mangas with real life martial arts
@@anxiousweeb8753 ive read em all, thats why im so upset that it just isnt utilized anywhere but manga
Love the number of uploads from seth.
Yo I don't care what anyone says, the way Seth breaks down Goku and Batman Made perfect sense and trust me I am a huge Goku fanboy and I 100% agree with this outcome. I wish more people was as clear with there breakdowns of characters or at the very least made sense when doing so, thank you Seth for amazing videos and top tier quality of work we are all glad you're back.
You also gotta remember this is basically a composite Batman.
@@Violent_Wolfen this is the cannon version tho
@@idontevenknow7600 I know, but it doesn't that it's still a composite Batman based on Seth's description of this current Batman.
@@Violent_Wolfen it’s not composite unless it’s every version of the character including the non cannon stuff imo
@@Violent_Wolfen If this was a composite Batman that'd include the noncanon stuff, and non Canon stuff makes this an even bigger batman W. Seth just took the version of batman that has Canon feats.
During Gokus fight with ssj2 Caulifla, caulifla was actually 5 times gokus power level, but even with that he was able to keep up with her while being tired.
Edit- she was actually 50x stronger
I was saying this exact same thing when Goku fought Cell
Cell was easily 1.5-2x stronger than Goku was when they battled but Goku was able to keep up with raw power because of how skilled he is as a martial artist.
2:23 yeah, those people weren’t paying attention to what cell said about his battle instincts. I mean, he blatantly stated it. so the people that say he would just be a kickboxer or whatever, aren’t paying attention close enough.
The biggest thing here that Seth didn't touch on is the size difference. Bats is MASSIVE. And with all that skill and all that mass Goku if both were humans with no powers and stuff is just fighting at a severe disadvantage from the jump. The Wondy and Ares wank is SILLY but just being able to scrap with them and not get his chest caved in on a daily is impressive. Another thing Seth left out is how he scales to the other gods are martial arts in DC. Shiva and Richard Dragon both have reacted to lasers on multiple occasions. And Shiva has the ability to see react learn and counter any strike and technique after seeing it once. And Bats fights them fairly well often. That means that Bats has to throw a different strike every strike or Shiva runs right through him. The power scaling of humans in America cape stories just aren't fair for these types of fights.
How massive is he?
@@andywu1981 pause
@@andywu1981 6'2, 210 lbs.
I'm fairly certain batman and Goku are roughly the same size to each other, plus I'm fairly certain Goku is just as jacked!
He’s got 5-7 inches and about 25lbs on goku ( I’m not certain about the weight, but I know goku’s somewhere in between 5’7 and 5’9 (Vegeta’s like 5’2-5’5 so it could be slightly more))
Bro seth you’ve been killing it man
Kinda wish Seth went over goku's techniques that aren't ki related like the afterimage technique or used statements in the manga and other sources that tell us what fighting style goku uses. It wouldn't change the outcome in the slightest just would've been nice to see.
What human can do after images in real life?
@@troylit3141 batman
@@Tripp247 no he cant
@@SoulWarriorSF it was a joke, obviously batman doesn’t move at flash speeds
@@Tripp247 yet.
“Batman has learned martial arts, and so does Goku, but Batman has learned *more* martial arts, so I think he’d probably beat Goku.”
- Death Battle, probably
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't goku learn martial arts that are not even from this world ??? And literally created his own style as a kid ?!!?!??
@@DripNingen wasn't his own style only possible due to his tail? Which he doesn't have anymore
@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 Fr his tail? you mean the thing that has been gone for over 30 years? I didnt see goku rely on his tail in the cell games is all ima say lol.
@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 wdym his tail ?? His tail doesn't makes him a martial artist lmao
@@cooldude2794 did you read the comment? He said as a kid ya know when he had his tail? Are you brain-dead?
“That other scenario wasn’t interesting, this one right here is interesting” -Seth lol
Yeah because batman has 80 years of lore & multiple different writers.
if they use their prime Canon forms it'll be true MUI Goku vs TBWL or Final armor Batman.
Essentially a guy who can possibly punch away a universe, & shake a void for some minutes at best (goku) vs a guy who can rewrite the multiverse into whatever he likes (TBWL or Final armor batman)
Not a fair fight, I don't see it being much of a challenge for batman to be honest.
Seth posting more than a video in a period of 30 days? What’s this? A Christmas miracle?
Fuck dude thanks for the Budokai 3 background music I haven’t heard that in a minute
We’re in a parallel universe 😭 he’s uploading constantly guys!
Seth Is on a roll with all these uploads and I’m all for it!
We eating
These fan matchups are great seth! Keep em coming we appreciate your input on topics👍🏾
The amount of effort and research that goes into these videos is truly phenomenal! Keep up the awesome vids Seth! :)
"The Bat vs The Monkey" 💀
I'd be down for a full blown tournament of skill at this type. Especially if it gives light to some Underrated characters in terms of skill (usually due to their strength of other abilities)
I feel like Goku takes it at a mid to high diff as I feel like he could adapt to Batman’s fighting styles.
EDIT: shit I underestimated how skilled the caped crusader is lol
I think something that Seth forgot to add is that Batman’s martial arts prowess puts him at a slightly superhuman level in the first place.
Comics are silly, lol
@@Chiefteeth1 And Goku’s doesn’t? Goku has trained martial arts since he could walk Batman since 14……
@@joshkrause2977 so you didn’t watch the vid?
@@sptflcrw8583 nobody’s denying it but Anime can be silly too.
I love how unbiased you are with your content. While Goku is insanely gifted and adaptable, batman's entire character is based around using techniques, tools, intuition and intelligence to defeat gods.
The only way i see Goku possibly winning is as you said, through submission techniques. However I'm sure batman has techniques to counter those or dislocate specific joints to set himself free etc.
Goku can't even use hypnosis or drunken fist because batman has faces similar foes as well. So in about every scenario batman wins.
Nice take
Batman doesn’t win
I feel like Batman's got it given how ridiculous his mastery of martial arts is.
What? Batman didn’t train in martial arts since he was a child…..
Bruuh, goku ultra instinct is alone can beat Batman and goku beats people who had a experience over 500 to 1000 years
@@leviop8524 did you miss the ares part or
@@leviop8524 base vs base no powers
Batman beats the brakes off goku
@@disgaealikerasapOG they didn't watch the video man has gone toe to toe with wonder woman someone who beat a God with billions of years of combat
Isn’t Goku‘s whole thing to move the most optimally so that no matter how many fighting styles the opponent has, he’ll be able to counter it regardless which negs A high quantity of fighting styles to begin with? Pretty sure it’s said in between Master Roshi and Goku as well
Yep but Batman’s adaptation and pre cognition is superior
batman is said to adapt too he legit made a new fighting style against a deadlier version of himself also told to predict when someone comes back from the future and his body moves on its own he is just better with 80 years of experience and 127 fighting styles
@@Adam-editsHe has more whan 100 years of battle exp, able to predict enemy's movement
@@Jondoe297..Batman is still human, Goku is a sayian meaning his genetics are a on a completely different level. Sayians are literal born warriors
@@repthekingforever_7718no powers shut up
Speaking of Ares and Karate Kid, the two have actually fought and Ares said he was more skilled than himself, being so skilled he could fight an actual god.
I'd watch this over death battle a million times. Keep it up
SethTheProgrammer will be well-known as that guy who talked about fictional characters far more than the average person.
Thank you, Seth. I will always know that Azathoth isn't the supreme being of H.P. Lovecraft.
Who is then?
@@dumbledorelives93 there are arguments for Yogsothoth being above him. I'm pretty neutral on it though personally.
@@dumbledorelives93 My favourite theory is that Nyarlathotep is impersonating every outer god and great old one (with his shape shifting ability), so he can basically toy around with the people's mind.
When did he talk about Lovecraft?
@@iisave8247 People say yogsothoth is acually a part of azathoth's dream, however that would mean that azathoth is aware of his own existence in the story of yogsothoth which wouldn't make sense as far as im aware because hes a blind idiot god with no consciousness or sentience.
😂😂This man Seth is puttting out bangers dang near every day what is going on
I can tell you that Saitama would be put in the ground pretty dang fast. Garou even makes a point to comment on how untrained he is, and easy to read the moves of. His pure physically prowess just makes it impossible to fully react to his moves.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Still beats goku
@@jvr6809 Seth made a video saying how Goku still beats him, you're just a random jobber, Seth's been doing this for over a decade
Just saying you never came back to the lee situation but I forgive you because the video was still amazing
I think if we give Goku UI Omen it becomes a really interesting and drawn out match.
They both have thrown hands with stronger opponents and put in work with just their raw skill, adaptability and precognition countless times.
The problem here is that Batman has no super powers to speak of so he'd be at full power where-as many of the techniques and skills that Goku has mastered over his life-time would not be a tool in his arsenal anymore, much of which has been a focus of his training in recent time since he's fighting galaxy level threats; things that would even give Superman a run for his money.
Batman is effectively fighting Karate Kid with Saiyan biology and quirks so he's heavily favored to win. Here's why I say that, Goku would be having the time of his life fighting someone as skilled as Bats and even if he saw an opportunity to bring the fight to an early close since there are no established stakes in this scenario (it's not like Bats is going to blow up the Earth or some nonsense) AND given that he's the type of person who LIVES TO BE PUSHED TO THE LIMIT OF HIS ABILITY he would intentionally draw out the fight as long as possible to get the most out of it.
Goku is genuinely the type of guy to get his ass kicked and be back after eating a sensu bean asking for round 2 until he's got you figured out well enough that he can can beat your ass.
So in a single bout this would almost certainly go to Batman but much like how he has his sights set on beating Beerus, Goku would eventually get the W on Bats even if it took him losing hundreds or thousands of times in the process.
Ultra Instinct, in my opinion, could be used in the context of "only martial arts, no power" as it's just instinctive movements due to Goku's incredible level and knowledge in martial arts, ignoring the godly power boost it gives in Dragon Ball Super
okay so just normal instincts?
@@Runosaaa no, it's ultra.
@@kalebruiz-garcia4531 he said "just instinctive movements" with no godly power boost so its basically just normal instincts
I think ultra instinct sign is fair game but mastered/true ultra instinct is invalid in this context
If I remember correctly in the manga version of the tournament of power Beerus and Whis comment on Roshi's fighting capabilities saying that it's almost ultra instinct.
I don't read manga, so I never knew that. That's very interesting to be honest.
🔥 vid can we get a anime ranking like a top 10 best anime/manga
Did you draw that thumbnail?
Kuro!!!
Honestly... i wanna see the final batsuit vs goku argument.
Said version of batman is so underrated it's ridiculous
Seth vs allegations who would win ?, find out now on Sethball Z
Depends. How long is prep time? We going with current Seth? Is he at base? Does research work in this universe or we just doing ad hominems?
I just stumbled upon your channel and I’m extremely impressed with the quality and substance of your work, Seth. Thanks, now I can binge more anime materials.
His content is amazing but his allegations are horrible
I'd like to see a matchup like this between Garou from OPM and whoever in fiction might actually beat him in terms of skill.
There are many
If equal stats In Close Combat, Garou.
But Goku has Kaio-Ken so he can always do KKx20 and win, but this Beats the point of equal stats.
depends, if it's a fresh garou, he'll probably lose very fast, but if it's a worn out garou whos lost a lot of times before, he's rlly dangerous
@@orlandoactab3034 Garou is pretty dangerous even in his human form due to the whirlwind Iron Cutting Fist.
I honestly think UI counts as a power-up/power in this case, just because UI is used like a transformation later on in the manga. That and UI just gives Goku an INSANELY unfair advantage
Fax best part is it’s a technique that anyone can learn in the Z verse
In the manga, it’s treated as both. UI the technique can be used in any form, but UI the transformation is the last resort form. Just one that was established in the manga, the next two fights were literally miles stronger than Goku, so it wasn’t represented enough as a technique
Only the silver-haired version is a transformation.
If Batman was fighting a Goku who doesn't have transformation or kyo ken, then definitely everything Seth has said 100% valid facts. Also Batman has kept up with Superman who has laser eyes, so it would be alright if Goku uses his ki range attacks as long as Batman has full use of his gadgets. Even still, it comes down to Batman only being able to keep up with a base form Goku. Eventually, Goku would be overwhelming Batman simply with his Sayian biology. Goku would be getting stronger as they fight. But if we were to remove that factor from Goku, it would technically be a win for Batman in a full martial arts contest. He has fought and defeated human bases enemy who were physically and combat superior like Bane.
Love your vids, would love a Gurren Lagann scale vid
Seth put some respect on every character mentioned in this video.
Also with the mention of Wonder Woman, could we get some mentions for her power scaling? I feel like she goes a bit underrated considering some of her feats.
Well which Wonder Woman specifically, cause DCEU WW for example is very sub-planetary while Infinite Frontier Wonder Woman on the other hand literally walks over the Omniverse(includes everything DC ever published in it's historty) like it's a street crossing XD? But a general rule of thumb for normal comic versions is that Wonder Woman is somewhere around a serious Supes, he is often physically stronger, has a more rounded inherent power-set and can fly faster, while she is often more skilled, more versatile due to her gear(her lasso alone has already countless of hax abilities at it's best) and can fight or at least react faster.
Batman actually probably knows more martial arts than goku, but he has shown on multiple occasions he can learn techniques from watching them(not master them but has the physical understanding to emulate them)
Ong bro imo I think batman is more skilled in hand to hand combat he know almost all of the martial arts in the world
@@Jose07-_213 he knows all the arts of fighting in the world he took time off to go learn them
@@nmbmemphisbeast3690 ong
In this situation of both being just top level human Batman wins due to his skill. What really puts him ahead is his intellect. Everyone always asks the question, when they put Batman against anyone, “with, or without prep time” for a reason. He is a pure human that fights and wins against Gods
Seth forgot something that will turn this whole battle around… Gokus durability, in the classic, CLASSIC dragon ball anime KID goku was able to tank bullets from bulmas uzi without actually taking any physical damage, so in a real fight goku will adapt to anything batman throws at him and batman would do little damage because of gokus durability
@@linnex3694 EQUAL STATS
@@sptflcrw8583 He never said equal stats he just said martial arts only
@@linnex3694 bruh first fifteen seconds says no powers
@@sptflcrw8583 his durability or strength isnt a power
We love the budakai tenkaichi music is peak Seth we love it
Goku mastered martial arts so good he gained powers of angels it's so well he moves without thinking about it lol its so natural its like "Instincts" we also gotta realize goku blitzes batman easily
This is no powers, so no he doesn't blitz
@@thomasthecoolkid7228 one can make an argument where ultra instinct is a technique rather than power
@@BoneDaddy_ it’s absolutely power related let’s be real by that logic
Goku also doesn’t have powers since ki is considered natural in dragon ball
@@dutchdario635 true, DB making it a technique is weird, but a fight like this is always decided by the writer anyways
@@BoneDaddy_ I'd say he gets the auto dodge, but not the power boost
Did we know Batman would win? Hell yeah. Were we gonna watch to support the boy Seth? Hell yeah!
Bat man sucks.
@@michaeltreu4152 Agreed
Haters gon hate
But who cares
@@michaeltreu4152 Yeah, but you still gotta admit dude would win against Goku if they were on the same level.
@@EeveeOnAHowitzer Well If we Do Goku vs Batman we just gonna use the Darkest Knight because it's still batman
My man really managed to get a Rosetta Stone sponsor?! This was in my elementary ciriclulum.😅
Fun fact in the comics Superman lost to Mohammed Ali in a boxing tournament. No I’m not kidding.
I remember that 😂
I mean
Have we ever see Superman use material arts?
Everytime I read the comics I only see simple punch, heat visions
And then a whack to the face
@@malvinyct2544 Supermans sparred with both Wonder Woman and Batman in h2h and were taught by them too.Infact Bruce was impressed of supermans fast adapting abilities
Goku is literally decades and decades of peak physical prowess and the mental grindset embodied in the practise of Martial Arts. I feel like it got a little... lost... during the mid to late DBZ episodes. But the fight with Kid Buu and a fair chunk of Super's late fights, show a LOT of that old Kame House and WMAT training, shining through.
Kame house "training" was literally just doing heavy labor. They learned no martial art techniques
@@yalkn2073Goku still wins here because man has been doing martial arts for over 5 decades ever since he was like 5 years old
@@Adoioioi Did you even watch the video? You sound biased lmao
@@valkerky4296 No me no biased, I haven't watched this video in a long time so that's probably why. Goku can still win because of his saiyan biology
All of these GOKU and Dragon Ball Z worshippers are biased. Their lord is Goku. No anime outside Asia can win in their mind
Batman's Plot Armor >>>>> Goku
I'm happy someone finally understands how UI works its not that complicated
Oh my god Seth said Toriko’s name
Something else that would likely have Batman winning in a no powers fight against Goku, is size and reach, with Batman being at least 5-6 inches taller, which means a considerable reach advantage. This is if you consider stuff like boxing and mma in a realistic sense
Edit: also the difference in body weight would be considerable. They would realistically be in completely different weight classes in combat sports
Batman will break his arms fighting kid Goku Goku is not a normal person he is still madly overpower without ki for a regular human have you not seen what happen to regular human when put up against the z fighters Goku could hold everything back and still kill batman
@@trevormcgregormiller765 I’m aware of this, the entire concept of the video is taking away superpowers and looking at fighting skill. I watched classic dragon ball, and kid Goku could easily wash batman when you give him his powers from classic dragon ball. That being said, I’m talking in a human on human sense, as this video was. This isn’t about who would win in a no holds barred fight.
Belly is significant bigger than Batman and goku put paws on him
Do you think size matters? Batman fights bane which is also a ton taller than he is
If both were at equal stats, hand to hand only, no amps or amp techniques, and no gadgets………Then Batman folds
You watch the video?
He wins hand to hand don't matter what level he is he beats anyone with just hands to hands.
@@DFD3ADP00L I hate weebs
@@taywil4496 will it's your opinion everyone as them. And calling me a weeb will why are you watching this video then about a anime character vs a cartoon comic character.?
@@taywil4496 yes, and Batman still would beat Goku’s ass at the end of the day
Movie Dumbledore VS Movie Gandalf, AND just for kicks both book versions against each other
all im going to say is, Goku as a child was not infusing his punches with ki and was still one punching full grown men and as a child could keep up with the best martial artist in the world
Yeah and then u got kid goku picking up a car over his head when he met bulma…
@@Figgs101 Yh it’s his natural strength
@@karshinp7896 did u watch the video? The video is talking bout if goku was a human and had to depend on his “martial art” only
@@Figgs101 I said that it was his natural strength when he picked up the car. I never said he could do that as a human did I?🤦🏾♂️
@@karshinp7896 That’s what we talking about?!?! Goku is a human in this fight so u saying thats goku natural strength is pointless cause we talking bout as if goku a regular human
Ultra instinct is actually based off a real life state of mind called "Mushin"
I think Goku wouldn’t get UI since it’s an anime power, but instead he should get Mushin which is basically UI without the amps. His evolutionary adaptations would be improved however.
Edit: I'm incredibly annoyed because currently around 20 of the 24 replies are saying how Goku in the manga and Anime can use UI MISSING THE POINT THAT THIS VIDEO ISN'T MANGA NOR ANIME GOKU. THIS IS A PEAK HUMAN WITH THE IQ AND SKILL OF GOKU. This peak human wouldn't be strong enough to use UI as Whis specifically stated for Goku to use 100% of UI he needs to transform to get stronger as his body is just too weak. So if a peak human tried to use UI he would explode the instant he activates it. So to be fair I just used to IRL UI which does very similar things, but instead of actually giving physical boosts it just gives mental boosts.
So pretty much base ui goku in manga
@@umarishaque4362 pretty much yeah.
yeah, mushin is basically UI without the transformation and just the technique.
So basically UI from the manga...
Stop watching dragon ball from tik tok
Need to see a Jin Mori vs Batman video now
I would actually love to see Owl Man in his suit vs Goku. That’s actually on par basic strength wise since he could handle short bouts with power houses.
Goku probably copies his fighting styles until he has no more lol
Batman has too much plot armor, theres no way a human can be that good at fighting. Thats ridiculous. Before batman even has a chance to throw a punch at someone like darkseid, darkseid could run around the planet multiple times and still kill batman. You could say batman would win this fight but its only because hes poorly written
did freiza make the thumbnail?? “the bat vs the monkey”
I think the pure amount of hours put into training sheds light on the obvious winner
Goku?
@@Armadder ???
@@sptflcrw8583 he said the pure amount of hours put into training, goku definitely trains more considering he's literally trained for years straight at one point
@@Armadder batman spent his entire childhood training nonstop, he definitely has more time put in.
@@sptflcrw8583 I highly doubt it. Goku spends his casual time training, Goku literally lives and breaths training. I'm sure Bruce trains a ton on his off time but he's still Bruce wayne, I'm sure he's gotta make appearances at events and what not.
Now let's tackle this "childhood training" argument of yours. You say Bruce trained his entire childhood... but so has Goku! Maybe not as non stop as you claim Bruce has but when we're first introduced to Goku in Dragonball, he was already trained by Grandpa Gohan. Goku was 12 when introduced in Dragonball but sent to earth at around 3. I unfortunately don't know when grandpa Gohan trained Goku though knowing dragon ball logic, Goku was taught at a very early age. At best that gives Goku 9 years of training at the age of 12, with Bruce at 4 years of training at 12. Even if it wasn't 9 years for Goku, Goku still has been training all of his childhood, he's trained a lot with Roshi, and even 3 years with kami. At BEST I can see Bruce beating Goku by maybe a year when it comes to childhood training, and this assumes the worst-case scenario for Goku's childhood training.
After childhood, Goku literally trains so much it's crazy. At one point he trains for 7 years in otherworld between Cell saga and Buu saga. He's also trained a whole year in the room of spirit and time when training to fight cell, half a year running snake way and the other half training with king kai against the saiyans, 3 years for the androids, 3 years in super in the room of spirit and time for the universe 6 and 7 tournament, and a few more times in the room of spirit and time and in Whis' staff. Also Goku regularly trains on King Kais planet or at Beerus world with Whis. I'm sure I'm missing a ton more training moments but it's clear that Goku has a TON of training time.
So yeah, I HIGHLY doubt Batman trains more with Goku, sorry. Now, I don't really read dc comics so it might very well be possible for Batman to train more than Goku, but I feel like you don't watch a lot of dragon ball either since you seem to think that Batman's childhood training is somehow an argument for Batman having more time in training than Goku.
Goku fans still gonna be mad about these “facts”
THIS WOULD NEVER BE OFFICIAL STOP TALKING LIKE IT IS
YES YOU KNOW GOKU BUT YOU DID NOT MAKE THE ANIME SO ITS NOT OFFICIAL
YOU KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT GOKU BUT NOTHING ABOUT BATMAN
YOU BASE THIS FIGHT OFF STRENGTH EVEN THOUGH ITS EQUALIZED
If Batman has Goku’s strength then no one kills him.
Be realistic, comic books are way more in depth than manga and anime so you’re really discrediting Batman.
People forget just how good of a martial artist Goku really is. Because he's so strong, people think his martial arts are second important. They're not. Ultra Instinct is the result of perfect martial arts skill.
"ultra instinct is the result of perfect martial arts" what in the actual fuck are u talking abt LOOOOOOOOOL holy
@@adsfddsdfsfsdsasofsavgdhua4879 dude, you're the one who don't know what you're talking about. Ultra instinct IS the result of perfect martial arts, it's not just a power up like super saiyan. It's where you're so good at fighting that the body instinctively moves in the perfect way for you. You clearly didn't read the manga where Roshi actually achieved it for a short time and dodged Jirens attacks. If you dont believe me, look it up yourself.
@@adsfddsdfsfsdsasofsavgdhua4879 yeah
UI is bs plot armor 🤣🤣
@@adsfddsdfsfsdsasofsavgdhua4879 it kinda is but just put on the highest posible stage, havent you seen videos of people able to dodge things that move at such high speeds
@@adsfddsdfsfsdsasofsavgdhua4879 Funny your saying that, because Whis teaches UI to goku, by definition its the culmination of his training of martial arts with all his teachers, you obviously havent done any kind of research💀
Kratos vs Jesus is a meme rn, can we get that as a Christmas video for Jesus’s birthday?
i dont think batman would out will goku if it came down to them stalemating like goku is just never gonna stop.
Ultra Instinct is not the "art of throwing hands". It's based on Flow State. Moving without thinking. Bruce Lee often spoke of it. UI Sign/Omen was his body avoiding damage on its own, whereas he had to think about attacking. MUI is when he stopped thinking all together and simply moved. Whis talks about it numerous times. Not sure how you skipped that.
Bro he knows that. Everyone knows ui is instinctive movement and even with it batman puts goku in the trash
@@kawakiuzumaki5934 especially considering, as Seth pointed out in the video, Batman can also enter a flow state. Being able to use Ultra Instinct in this fight wouldn't give Goku an advantage, it would just make him equal to Batman.
Batman is skilled to the level you could call it parody. In matches like these he pretty much will always win matches like this.
No he wouldn't. He needs gadgets to win. Batman may know martial arts but he doesn't train as much as goku. He doesn't train with elite coaches and training partners like goku. All goku does is train and fight. Batman doesn't and because he's worried about his identity he can't train with the best fighters. Goku has won world and universal tournaments for fighing. Batman hasn't
Batman literally trains every day just has to save the world from super villains all the time but Goku doesn’t like once a year
@@thirtythree504 Cap, yes he does he beat Karate Kid and all his martial arts from across the galaxy and far future and can match a God with knowledge from the beginning of time
@ahmod Howard you wildn my guy
Lmao i have to disagree with that. Batman isn't even the best martial artist in his own universe, examples like Lady Shiva could beat him, and that's only within his own universe
3:40 Had my full attention til you started playing that nostalgic banger .
Technically goku can use UI in base, since it is originally a technique
Batman seems to have a form of Ultra instinct with ability to unconsciously move and react to enemy attacks so, yeah I'd say that's far.
The thing about ultra instinct is that goku can harden his body. I dont know if it would be allowed in a martial arts only battle but in his battle with moro, moro tried attacking goku but broke his own arm.
@@zar5101 Some people train for long periods of time to harden their hands, so it isn't that crazy, after all.. goku's an alien
@@Omega-AlexGt I'm not saying that it's crazy but he hardened his body as a way to lessen damage. Moro broke his arm from just punching goku. In a battle with no powers that's actually a crazy feat. The body hardening is exclusive to UI meaning it would be allowed.
So this is completely off the topic but any thoughts on Accelerator vs Saitama? I thought my man Saitama had some human limits like not being able to breathe in space but after that Saitama vs Garou bit I don't know if my mans Accelerator's reflection can hold up to them punches my G.
its pretty commonly agreed on Accelerator stomps.
@@mrpods2 him vs that kakashi lookalike would be interesting until speed comes into play
@@MegaMachiOnline not really. In the LNs Accelerator can just use long range vector manip, its never stated to need to travel.
yeah this is definetly a fight i would love to see
Goku used ultra instinct in his normal forms in the granolah arc. So while he can't use his white haired form or omen, he can use those UI principles in base now.
NO CHI! Watch the video.
@@youareacoward8459 But... Isn't ultra instinct just a technique? Just a very very advanced form?
@@firecrumby2387 No, Ultra Instinct can only be achived with God-ki.
@@youareacoward8459 read the manga again, Ultra Instinct is a technique AND a form. You can use Ultra Instinct the technique without using "chi"/ki because it uses martial art principles
@@youareacoward8459 That's not even remotely true as Roshi can begin to tap into UI without God-ki. Ki isn't required for UI, its just a state of being.