REAL APACHE PILOT shows you why you KEEP CRASHING!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video, I demonstrate the differences in power required to hover both in ground effect and out of ground effect at different weights and environmental conditions to show you why you can't take a full load of missiles and fuel all the time.
Ending music:
Artist: tubebackr
Track: SWAY
@tubebackr
links.fanlink....
Creative Commons License. Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported (CC BY-ND 3.0)
Nice video. Very good demonstration. People cry out to ED "we want more realism!" But when they get it, don't know what to do with it.
players: We want realism!!!
5 minutes after trying to fly a helicopter
players: We want easier controls this is too damn hard!!
@@AdarColussi exactly!
Almost as if they aren't actual military pilots... surprising?
@@machinech183 DCS made me fall inlove with Helicopters.
The KA-50 and Huey especially, and I went and got a Helicopter private pilots license.
I am so thankful that DCS is as realistic as it is, because it helped A LOT going into the real thing.
If you love flying, planes or bricks with rotors, Go do an introduction flight at your closest flight school.
It'll be a present you'll never forget.
@@AdarColussi I'm a tanker. Got my chopper thrills back when Ft. Knox was still an armor school. Had fun one day taking two crews through our tank simulator while they took us through their choppers. Was great fun. Then we went out after and got proper drunk. I stick to flying in simulators. That way I don't have to feel bad about what I blow up. Congrats on your license though, well done!
I used to turn wrenches on Apaches and I remember standing on the flightline watching a flight of apaches taking off. We had this one WO that we always used to rag on because he was a massive guy, and by massive I mean like 6'2 and probably 260-270. Really big dude. Standing there watching all 4 in a hover, getting ready to leave, I made a comment to a few buddies of mine. "You can tell which one Mr. "x" is in". They all looked at me curiously and asked "how can you tell". I said... "One is coning more than the others". 😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂
Thank you sir for your takes on the accuracy of the sim and extremely useful flight information coming from an Apache pilot. This level of sim available in the consumer space was nearly unimaginable before the classic Janes AH-64D Longbow showed what could be possible. Eagle Dynamics take with their stellar art department work, modern graphics capabilities, (including probably the best argument for a VR headset) and damn are we sim pilots spoiled. It's an embarrassment of riches to be honest.
This is good stuff, and applies to other helicopter flight sims too. The AH-94 in VTOLVR really doesn't like being loaded super heavy. It also means you can't go as fast in my experience, since more of your lift has to go to keeping you out of the trees instead of getting you somewhere.
I love the ah-94 the weapons on that thing are insane especially the 20mm option
@@lilkris3008 I like the AH AH94, just not how VTOL in general behaves with my quest controllers. Having a controller desync while trying to get into ground effect is.... frustrating.
@@DFX2KX I see that a lot luckily I don’t have issues one 1.0 vive only complaint is no pnvs and I’m not a fan of VTOLvr NV it’s not the same and I don’t like taking the tads from the cpg
I love the level of detail and realism ED built into this thing. Thanks for the demo.
Thanks for watching!
My OIC was an 64 pilot. It’s fun showing him these videos and talking about it. ESP gunnery and deployments.
When I look back to Jane's Longbow, if someone had said to me.....one day you'll be getting lessons from real 64 pilots, I would've died laughing.
I'm dead apparently.
Thank you for keeping armchair idiots in the loop.
Damn I remember that Sim. Loved flying it back in the day. The days when you got a book sized manual with your game!
@@fuzzblightyear145 LOL I'm old. I even printed out a book sized manual for the original A-10 before I realised I could just read it on my pad in PDF.
Education. Science. Takes time to explain it. Your demonstrations are perfect for this exercise. Bravo.
I love watching these type of videos that succinctly explain really complex characteristics of rotor wing flight. Thank you for taking the time to make it! Very informative and more importantly easy to understand!!
Great demonstration here. And people don't realize, when the little weight indicator on the loadout page turns amber, that's just over max gross weight. It doesn't take into account any perf factors. This would have been a great video to include an online E6B calculation. You're just changing density altitude here (between temps). Assuming the field is 4700, and let's say you got to 40°, that range of density altitude is about 3000 to 8700'! And let's say the pressure was low too, at 29.20" hg, you're at 9500! It's easy to just get into game mode in this, even as a real pilot, but at the end of the day, if we want a SIMULATOR, we have to respect the numbers a little more.
You. Have to respect them more
Brilliant explanation in simplistic terms that really helped me understand this key area of helicopter aerodynamics. Thanks for taking the time to put this video together 🙌
Thanks for watching!
Been cycling through about 6 channels, eagle7 did a similar video and boiled it down to high, hot and heavy being the 'worst' conditions for lift. Loving your vids, the view from civilian and military pilots is fairly close. From working with a lot of pilots, you all seem to develop that 'pilot' voice, smooth, clear, concise.
Thanks for watching!
Great Job. Of everybody sharing knowledge and taking time to create such videos.
As a pilot I would suggest you make a part 2 showing how to deal with heavy loads, like running takeoffs, decent slowdowns reaching hovering spots, maybe dropping external fuel tanks on long distance flights, hovering into the wind if possible.
Great job 💪🏼
Great explanation, enjoyed the varying atmospheric considerations in different environments. In all of this, the chopper is a lot of fun, the thinking person's flight sim module....
Nice explanation, clear and to the point. And having spreadsheet information makes it easy to understand difference.
Anyone who puts a reference to old Trek has my utmost respect. LLAP.
Thanks for watching! 🖖
Great explanation :) As a fan of physics, it makes perfect sense. Cool air is denser. taking off in hot air is like taking off at altitude. your blades cant create as much lift, and have to bite in to the air at a higher AoA.
Exactly! Thanks for watching!
wait till you learn of Effective Translational Lift...:)
good old density altitude. that was one of the first aviation concepts my grandfather drilled into me as a kid.
Smart man. Thanks for watching!
Great video showing those effects along with a very good explanation. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
This is great. Easy to follow along. Broke it down Barney style of simple minded folk like me.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!
Schoolio, was writing to one of your commenter about the consideration that needs to be given to bank angle vs. power margin.
The load factors that helicopter experience;
60 degree banked turn requires 100% of the power at level flight in order to maintain altitude and airspeed.
30 degree requires 50% of power at level flight.
Amd the deliniations between.
etc.
I think that would be a fantastic video demonstration for people especially if you focus on how critical it becomes when you're high hot and heavy, at terrain flight altitudes and doing combat manuevering flight.
Some times you the engines can produce more than 100% torque in the right conditions.
Some times, like in your last demonstration, max torque available was limited by the conditions and you drooped at 96%.
If it takes 74% power to maintain 110 knots indicated you couldn't even do a 30 degree banked turn without sacrificing your airspeed to maintain altitude or without trading your altitude to maintain your airspeed or risk drooping the rotor all together.
It's a topic I don't think anybody has covered, its complex and nuanced but also sort of straight forward - and would likely make some light bulbs go off for some people.
Would make great and informative content.
The DCS/Apache version of "Do you even lift bro"
Seriously:
Amazing video!
Very important video for new Helicopter flyers!!!
I remember doing training in the tiny R-22, 2 people in the cockpit, airport at 2200feet msl and hot weather (38° to 40°C), we just couldn't fly because of PA.
the helicopter could barely hover IGE with manifold pressure at max, and tipping forward to gain speed could be dangerous due to the initial "dip" as you start gaining speed, with real danger of bouncing the skids on the runway...
I mean yeah, we could do a rolling takeoff and ware off the skid shoes a bit... but we'd rather have those for a real emergency ;)
looking back I know it would have been possible, but I still wouldn't want take that risk.
I flight instructed in a Cessna 152 in Phoenix in the summer…I know exactly what you’re talking about. 😂
You need to load up on JP8 and have your crewchief make an adjustment to the power turbine governors to bump the power up about 100hp to 701-d levels. Also, leave the unnecessary baggage behind to save about 200# and get a skinny gunner to shave a few more.
Do a rolling takeoff and don't get below 60 KIAS until you have burned off about 25% of your fuel or used several Hellfires.
Thank you for these videos. They've all been helping me improve a lot.
Awesome…thanks for watching!
Definitely the hardest module to learn so far! I'm like a set of wind chimes swinging in the wind when I try and lift 🤣 rolls over and then crashes
Such an excellent helicopter simulator, it even simulates vortex ring state and ground effect - and getting out of it. Or not, if the payload and fuel is too high! The Hind also absolutely hates the weather in Nevada unless having no payload.
Outstanding work and a true credit to ED for the amount of detail at this early state, keep the pro content coming,,,, subbed,,,
Thanks, and thanks for watching!
Cheer, ref dash 10 comparison engine performance, if you can comment is DSC modelled better then real world
Thank you for addressing this in more detail :)
Thanks for watching!
As someone studying for my civilian flight medic certification this was fun to watch and went hand in hand with the flight dynamics I am currently studying for my exam
Thank you for this video. Its been so educative
Another excellent guide, thank you
Thanks!
High altitudes, hot conditions (thinner air for both), and heavy payloads is why the Russians developed the running on the nosewheel take-offs with the Hinds, just to get it in the air.
Also remember, in a heli with a counter clockwise rotating main rotor as viewed from above, the left pedal TAKES power (more TQ), and the right pedal reduces power (lower TQ).
Over torqueing means you basically broke it! (maintenance action required).
Remember also, Pressure Altitude is simply Standard Pressure corrected for non-standard temperature (15 deg C).
If you're playing this game and want to take off heavy, do running take-off's on the runway, like a plane. Once you transitions into ETL (Effective Translational Lift), the heli will just pop up and as long as you keep your airspeed up, you'll fly away. You can even do running take-offs in skidded aircraft!
If you watch my latest video, you'll see I do a rolling takeoff because I'm too heavy. Thanks for watching!
That’s a great video with explanations. The “E” model solves all of the problems but now with all the power and same tail rotor we get LTE, lol. Hope to be on DCS soon with this same call sign.
Well "helps" more then "solves" whenever they add a more powerful engine they usually add more "boxes" for systems as well. Same goes for the F-16, they keep putting bigger engines and putting more stuff on it, but the wing itself is only so big.
It doesn't solve all the problems. It just increases the ability to fly a higher load at a hotter/ higher altitude environment, but the crew will still need to be tailed by a fuel truck to get any useful distance.
Thanks for this, Terry! Good to see that US Army officers excel at spreadsheets, just like Dutch Army officers. Must be STANAG.
Shout out from LLH. Enjoyed the vid
Thanks for watching!
Another great video Schoolio!
Thanks brother!
The hot temp at Groom Lake was 31 because the temperature set is sea level temp. Remember, standard temperature lapse rate of 1.98C/1000ft above sea level.
This was fantastic. Got a new sub from me. Can't wait to watch the rest of your videos.
Awesome, glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching and for the sub!
great lesson appreciated !
Thanks for watching!
Thank you sir, very good video! You helped me a lot!
You’re welcome and thanks for watching!
Very cool video.
It's been a while since i last fired up DCS. Now i think there is a really critical parameter missing in the simulation, that is humidity. That bit of water in the air acts to increase the reaction mass, it also effects combustion performance to a point.
BTW i made it a habit to get my weather reports for every day use from the nearby airport (aka METAR/TAF). No clutter, no ads, no upselling. It just takes a bit getting used to read the stuff.
It is something that we would state as as reason for reduced performance, but not really factored in since compared to temp and elevation, it had the least impact on density altitude.
@@apachedave For some aircraft high humidity is considered a positive.
I.e. the Super Guppy. If the air is too dry/light, thrust performance is diminished, and since it is a cargo plane, humidity thus dictates the MTOW, IIRC.
@@DasIllu No denying that on my part for a Super Guppy. But in the US Army, our charts did not factor that in. They probably worst cased it anyway to be conservative.
@@apachedave Being super conservative with calculations is the name of the game. At least when we are talking about aircrafts that are constantly operated closest to their maximum parameters. I mean, you can come close to, but never exceed maximums.
IIRC it was mostly about how much more reaction mass humidity provides. So your propeller shovels volume, but the thrust it generates is determined by how much mass is moved. If a certain volume of air is heavier due to the content of water, the same volume would provide more mass to move and thus yield more thrust. This is assuming that there is no phase change involved for the water. Meaning we are talking about the gaseous phase not mist. Mist would take away a lot of energy from combustion, preventing the reaction product to expand in the cylinders as much as it otherwise could.
At least that is how i as a layman understand it.
This is excellent. Essential viewing after learning how to cold start and fly I think. What would be great next is more explanation of how this impacts mid flight maneuvers. Like does that mean you're more likely to overpitch, can you briefly have torque lower than needed to hover but still hit near 0 speed then move out of it. Thanks.
Know this;
It takes 100% of the power (torque) required at level flight to maintain airspeed and altitude in a 60 degree banked turn.
If it took 42% to fly straight and level, and you rolled it over 60 degrees, it will require you to pull in 84% (+42%) torque through the turn in order to not lose altitude or airspeed.
The reason is at 60 degrees, while maintaining altitude the load factor on the aircraft is 2 Gs. Or twice its weight. Which requires twice the amount of power to stay aloft.
So then, at a 30 degrees angle of bank you will need to pull in 50% of the power required to maintain altitude and airspeed than you need in straight and level flight.
You are pulling 42% torque and roll it over into a 30 degree banked turn. You need to pull in 63% (+21%) torque to maintain altitude and airspeed through the turn.
At a 30 degree angle of bank the load factor is 1.5Gs or its normal weight plus half.
This scales linearly up to 60 degrees.
This is a physical truth all aircraft experience. You can roll a fighter jet over to 60 degrees, pitch the nose up to maintain altitude through the turn (you'll have to add power to not bleed airspeed) take a look at your G-meter and see it reads 2.
Cessna 172s experience 2-Gs in 60 degree banked turns.
Hop in any of your helicopters, take note of the torque at level flight and roll it over to 60 or 30 degrees while adjusting power to maintain altitude. You'll see it takes 100% or 50% additional power through the turn respectively.
All that said, then it becomes critical for the pilot to know how far he can bank it over during combat maneuvering flight before he no longer has power available to maintain altitude before he has to trade his altitude for airspeed or his airspeed for altitude - or risk drooping the rotor. Very critical information when you're at terrain flight altitudes, and jinking the helicopter to avoid the enemies direct fires.
Right? Because if you're near max gross weight and it takes you 72% at some given airspeed (say 110 knots indicated) to maintain level flight, your power required to crank her over to 60 degrees without losing energy (airspeed/alt) would be 144% torque!
In some conditions a helicopter will have excess power available above the the manufacturers engine health limit placed upon the pilot (100% continuous torque for example). Knowing the engine for a given set of conditions can physically produce 135% torque before drooping the rotors can factor into critical emergency situations where more than 100% torque is required briefly to keep from crashing.
I don't know the Apache mod but it would be in the perf page under Max Toque Available or however they annotate that. "Q" is the torque annotation in the Blackhawk so Max Torque reads "MaxQ" in the perf page if I remember correctly.
Conversely, critically, in some conditions such as those demonstrated in this video there will be times that the engines are physically incapable of producing even 100% torque before drooping the rotor. Say they will droop at 96% like they did in the high, hot, heavy demonstration. It doesn't matter if he's in forward flight or a hover - at 96% torque, in those conditions, those engines will no longer be able to produce enough power to accommodate for the increased demand on the rotor system, drag will overcome thrust and the rotor RPM will decay or "droop."
In a situation like this you have to factor in your manuevering limits. If it takes you 72% power at 110 knots indicated you only have a 24% power margin. 96% max torque available - 72% power required at cruise = 24% power margin.
You can't even roll it over to 30 degrees and maintain altitude at that speed since that would take 36% torque. Either you have to slow down or reduce the bank angle in a turn in order to be able to maintain your states of energy (airspeed and altitude).
You can Google aircraft load factors in a turn to see a full breakdown of power required vs. Bank angle. The ones I remember outright are the 60 degree and the 30 degree but there are ratios everywhere in between and if you're smart enough you can do the mental math to break it down since it scales linearly.
Wow. I just seriously nerded out there. I love helicopters and helicopter flight physics so it was easy but that was like 20 minutes of pecking away on my phone LOL
Anyways, I hope you walked away from that reading with some food for thought going forward with your rotorcraft simulation. Hope it all made sense. I'd be happy to answer any other helicopter flight physics question of they come up.
I for one would love to see @schoolio64D do a video on this.
Take care
@@ender5817 Great stuff thanks for taking the time. Also impressive you did it on a phone :-) I need to link up the theory with the practice. It's a lot to learn from scratch in weeks and I'm not kind on myself when it comes to taking time to learn each thing. Right now I'm fine 75% of the time then dropping out of the sky the rest of it and wondering if I'll ever figure it out properly!
@@stovic1442 well hopefully some of what you saw and read today will paint a clearer picture in your head of some of the things that are happening when helicopters fly
@@ender5817 nice book
Informative, thanks!
Thanks for watching!
Absolutely pro man. It's still difficult to hover for me.
Keep practicing - it will come!
Great video, thank you! If you are looking for video ideas. I would love a deep dive into the PERF page. I think I have a decent understanding but as always there is plenty more to learn. Thank you again!
Thanks for the idea and also for watching!
In Gunship on the C64 released in 1986 this was modeled - sort of. You couldn't take a full load of hellfires or rockets and full fuel to the Middle East campaign because it was too hot. Simulation has come a long way since then.
Hi. I enjoyed your video, very interesting and useful subject ... but I did miss a lot the controls overlay, to catch a glimpse of your control inputs ... please please, for future tutorials display this overlay, for the benefit of those of us that are still learning to properly control this helo 🙂
I’ll be sure to have it on in the future. Thanks!
I never had a problem with the apache, I thought it was easier then the Huey, although people use to say the gazelle was impossible to fly and I had no problems with that from day one either.
I learned so much! I just wish I knew wtf it all meant!
LOL yeah there is a lot to digest. Feel free to ask questions. And thanks for watching!
Thanks for the instruction - how close or far is this to the real thing - attempting to hover and flying.
I feel like it’s close, but different. Different because you don’t actually feel the aircraft moving - everything is perceived with vision, whereas in the actual helicopter you can feel the movement, which helps you react and respond. But it’s really, really good.
Dziękujemy.
Thank you so much!
Nice demonstration👍🏻
What I wonder since I started trying out the Apache in DCS was the sensitivity around the yaw axis and in power inputs compared to a Huey for example. What can you say about it with your background regarding the real thing?
I feel like the pedals are a little too sensitive to start. Once you get used to them/better at controlling the yaw, it gets easier. I’ve since taken out the curve on my pedals, but it definitely helps when starting out.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
very nice video, informative and to the point.
my subsequent question relative the extreme condition, especially the last one (hot high PA and heavy), how does one goes about doing his job be it armed recon, S&D or some such ? what's the doctrine for this conditions (and any other if possible to share), does it involve racetrack battlestation on TGT, hide and seek hover ?
i'm very interested in the tacticals applications and how to use this aircraft realistically, would love a video on the subject if not OPSEC.
thanks again !
Basically you only carry what you need and stay above translational lift speeds by doing orbits/racetracks.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for sharing this simulation science. ;)
Would you do us a favour and create a reasonable autorotation tutorial for the apache. I would really appreciate getting a descent one.
I’ll see if I can do one first. One of my IPs many years ago told me once that “the Apache autorotates like a brick” 😂
Thanks for watching!
Nice explanation.
I find my biggest difficulty is the rudder control. It's so sensitive when trying to stay stable. I've messed with axis tuning but sofar nothing helps. Is this just how the Apache is?
I don't feel like it was that sensitive. I've put in a curve of 25 and that has helped me. For me personally, my pedals seem to stick a little, so that causes me to make larger inputs than desired sometimes as I try to get the pedal to break free. I need to put some WD40 on them. XD
Loved the Quagmire reference. Whenever I see an airline pilot in uniform, and eyeing me up and down, I smile and think, "I bet he's saying giggity to himself right now." 😁
Also great reference to non flying duties for officers, people have no idea how much has to be tabulated, collated and reviews written before the final sign off, for just about everything on Post/Base/Facility.
Hi schoolio64D, great vid! I have a question though: I really don't understand why the DCS AH64 oscilates so much from side to side when applying collective, the real heli doesn't seem to do that when it starts to climb based on all the footage I've seen.. What's you take on that ?
Thanks! I feel like the pedals are overly sensitive, which is why I recommended a curve in my hover video. Adjusting the saturation may help as well, but I haven’t messed with that yet. I think the other thing is that in the real helicopter, you can feel what it’s doing and can react quicker, which might explain why you’re not seeing much of the same movement.
@@schoolio64D Ah ok, I was myself wondering wether it might be some lack of inertia/momentum going on, as yawing feels a little weightless/without mass.
Awesome vid!
Very informative video's, keep it up. Can you do a video on basic tactical flying? I got shot down many times on Growling Sidewinder and decided to analyse the the TacViews. Even though I fly pretty low and try to stay in cover, guys are getting me on radar as far as 40km away and running in on me supersonic with ir missiles. I cant escape as I don't have much reaction time. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
I probably could but I would not do as good of a job as Casmo did in his videos. Yes, they’re not in the Apache, but the principles are generally the same.
Casmo teaching basic and combat maneuvering flight: th-cam.com/video/UqG17BK84Wo/w-d-xo.html
Casmo covers scout/attack team tactics and movement techniques: th-cam.com/video/NJWad3InUTA/w-d-xo.html
@@schoolio64D Thanks. Although I bought the Hind, I never really followed any content for it so I missed these vids. Thanks again
At minute 07:00, when you had a hard time settling it down, could it be because increased air temperature made for more air rising, hence higher level of ground effect?
I think me getting settled down was just me having happy feet on the pedals 😂
There’s a lot more to break down in what you said though. First, hotter air is less dense, so there are fewer air molecules for the rotor to push around to generate lift, requiring more power to move the same amount of air that you would at a lower temperature.
Secondly, ground effect is strongest closest to the ground, but decreases the further you climb away from the ground until it’s effectively nil at approximately one rotor disc in altitude (48’ for the Apache).
Forgive me if you already know this, but I wanted to make sure I addressed the whole comment.
Just do like me and spend a year flying the Huey, then another year flying overweight Hinds. Then when you get in the Apache it feels like the EZ mode super nimble ninja machine.
Real nice.
Thanks!
good stuff!
Lol this is great. Within the first 30 seconds of the video I'm told that taking a full load of hellfires and fuel to Syria and going after the bad guys isn't a good Idea. Which is the very first MP thing I did in the Apache XD, and successfully to boot. Guess I'm just lucky.
Guess you're just lucky.
I bet 40C was at sea level in the editor. Then going up 4409ft, it dropped the air temp by about 2C per thousand feet (lapse rate), 31C makes sense.
lmfao - "Being an Army officer, I am pretty good at spreadsheets."
You should see me with PowerPoint.
thank you School for putting this together it's a really nice video. i don't know what your dash 10 is my guess is a log book or manual with performance listings.
i do have a related question, i read that ground effect is 1.5 times the rotor diameter is this correct and is this modeled on the Apache. and if correct what is the rotor diameter?
The -10 is the Army version of an operators manual. It has all the information about systems, performance, operating procedures, etc. Unfortunately it’s a restricted distribution document, so I can’t post pictures from it, but I can talk about it in general terms. Ground effect is modeled as you can see in the video, and depending on your reference, it’s 1/2 to 2 times the size of your rotor disc. The Army defines it as “about one rotor disc” in their aerodynamics manual (TC 3-04.4). The rotor is 48’ in the Apache.
Thanks again for watching!
@@schoolio64D thank you very much, long time ago i had a clearance in the Navy so say no more i will never ask for any information if it's classified
@@schoolio64D the rotor disk in the Blackhawk is just shy of 54 feet in diameter.
The height of the mast is just about 12 feet high.
So at a 50 foot hover, our mast is actually 62 feet AGL. About 7 feet outside of OGE according to the Army definition.
The rotor disk transitions into OGE at approximately 42 feet radar altimeter height which is calibrated to wheel height, 12 feet below the mast.
Some points our IPs have driven home recently. Thought it was interesting because I had never considered it
@@ender5817 that's interesting, and I never heard that nor thought about it before...and I flew 60's for about two years too.
Would this bird stay in the air at the hot and high condition, by gainig forward momentum and using it's wings?
The wings don’t provide sufficient lift to really assist. They do provide some lifting force, but it was negligible at best.
"Keep hovering to play."
that squirreliness between 15 and 20 feet, was that the transition out of ground effect?
No that’s really just me over correcting due to my pedals sticking. 😂
@@schoolio64D I assume pedals sticking aren't a thing in real life. Man I hate it when my pedals stick.
@@crazygmanssimstuff yeah I need to spray some WD40 in there…and upgrade eventually.
I'm wondering if I should even install the game, it seems like it's going to take hundreds of hours to learn. I also don't have a joystick, so I would be using the mouse/keyboard.
If one wanted to just play in the cockpit, fire up some rockets and shoot the guns.. can you do that without getting off the ground or even turning on the propeller?
Yes, I think you should. I know people who play on mouse and keyboard. You don’t get the true immersion but it’s definitely still possible. If you want to just play front seat, that is definitely possible without controls. I use a PS5 controller, but mouse and keyboard would also work if you bind everything you need.
It does take some time to get proficient with it, but that’s part of the fun, right?
Only time ive crashed was cause a bug trimmed but the stick didnt move to trim position trim again and it takes both the last trim input and the new one combining them making me go full left stick, besides that just enemies fucking me up.
The trim is a painful thing to figure out, and in fact I had some trouble with it yesterday just because I was trying to trim again before I fully neutralized the controls and it just got…messy. 😂
So it's underpowered for its load. Or overloaded for power available.
Just checked on Ka-50. At 40° with 2x6 Vikhrs and 2x40 rockets it is still capable of OGE climb. It is a lighter missile and its power availability is just better for the load. At higher altitudes it will struggle more, but excess power available (at least felt one) promises that it will still be able to hover.
The original design had enough power to do its job, but whenever the Army gets a new toy, they like to put as much stuff on it as possible, resulting in very slim power margins. Newer versions fix this problem…for now. 😂
@@schoolio64D They will find a way :)
A thing to keep in mind is that the KA-50's figures might not be accurate. Most of the specifics in DCS are "eyeballed" by ED.
What? No Fortunate Son in the background? How times have changed.
Would you say the model is accurate, I mean is hover more unstable in DCS vs IRL? Also, what stick n pedals do you use?
I’d say the model is fairly accurate. There are some issues with it, but it’s probably a good 80% solution. I feel like it was easier to hover the real helicopter, but that might be due to being able to feel what it’s doing versus only using your eyes in DCS.
Stick - Thrustmaster Warthog
Pedals - Logitech Pro Flight (getting ready to upgrade)
@@schoolio64D I'm using a mff2 for stick and rudder.. no pedals. Hover is very difficult for me.
@@ntme9 Yeah, definitely takes practice. I've been told that Wags also uses a twist grip.
@@schoolio64D Nice, only thing good about it is I can sit back with my legs propped up on the desk while blowing sht up.. lmfao. BTW, slightly off topic, does the 64d have the ability to box/track a moving target like a TPG?
@@ntme9 Kind of, but not modeled yet. The Image Auto Tracker (IAT) is designed to capture targets and maintain them in the center of your field of view. However, it's not modeled yet, and from I can gather, when the 64D went from legacy TADS to MTADS, it basically lost it's effectiveness. It uses contrast from the surrounding area to lock, but according to Casmo, most people didn't really use it that much. In the A model and D model with legacy TADS, we used it a lot, because the only way to actually see things in the FLIR was to dial the contrast way up. I never flew MTADS - they were fielding it as I left active duty.
When in hover watch EGT you may melt your engines.
I'd just like to say I have never crashed any helicopters
Mainly cause I haven't flown any but I'm sure I'd do fine if I did.... right?
😂
So you and casmo gonna team up?
We chat a little. 😂
What about transitional lift?
Translational lift is certainly part of the equation, but when it comes time to maneuver or come to a hover, it won’t solve your problems.
2:06 eeeeeeeeeey
How would forward speed affect this?
That’s a bit more of an explanation. And more than can be typed out in a comment. As you transition into forward flight, you go through Effective Translational Lift (ETL) and your rotor becomes more efficient.
Check this Wikipedia link for more info: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translational_lift
If you want even more detailed info, there are some great references on helicopter aerodynamics available online.
@@schoolio64D Ok it explains something I read once about Hueys doing a heavy takeoff.... Thanks..:)
@@MrZnarffy Yeah if you see videos from Vietnam where the Hueys are dragging their skids on the ground before they become airborne, they were trying to accelerate into "clean air".
So in Afghanistan in high summer can the enemy assume that Apaches won't be carrying a full complement of hellfires and full fuel tanks ?
Well, first we aren’t fighting in Afghanistan anymore, and secondly, most of the Army has E models now, which have A LOT more power.
So assume at your own risk.
@@schoolio64D Good point ! :-)
@@schoolio64D If you were in atmospheric conditions where you barely had any power margin left but still had to perform fire support, is it army practice to get rid of fuel or armaments preferentially?
I hate that ED is okay with how twitchy the anti-torque pedals are in this module.
You also didn’t have the top radar on which is heavy
Yeah about 500 lbs or so.
After flying the gazelle & picking it up fairly fast I can say the 64 is quite a bitch! quite a few bugs still being pre-release, the gun seems to offset for no reason unless your aiming pretty much straight forward & uncommanded barrel rolls are a thing. This thing isn't a jump in & fly
Yeah Casmo just did a video on the gun - you should definitely check that out if you haven’t already. I haven’t had an unchanged barrel roll, but I’m wondering if retreating blade stall is modeled? I have had it pitch up and roll left at high speeds, so it’s quite possibly related to that. But you’re right, it’s early access, and we’re all unpaid beta testers. 😂
@@schoolio64D if the helicopter pitched up and rolled left. You are experiencing retreating blade stall.
I imagine the uncommanded barrel roll is a result of exceeding the Vne by severe maneuvering, ie; accelerating too fast in a dive for the nose up pitch rate caused at the onset of retreating blade stall to self correct the condition like it would in level flight.
If you're close to retreating blade stall, you have to decrease the severity of the manuever; slow down, reduce bank angle, lower collective or a combination thereof to recover.
Obviously you know that schoolio, that was more for the gentleman you responded too.
Sent to you from none other than Mother Rucker! Attending ALSE school atm.
Loved your vid. Makes me want to get the Apache module.
@@schoolio64D After watching that Casmo video I did some checking, and largely saw the same offset as he did when firing full bursts, BUT when I did single shots with the gun they all seemed to land around the area I was aiming at (some left, some right, some spot on, about equal spread). So right now the thing that weirds me out, is that while it's normal for subsequent rounds to land off to the side as the recoil pushes the heli around (and TES isn't there to compensate at all), why on earth do the initial rounds land off to the side as well when shooting in bursts? The first rounds should land in the same spot as they do when firing single shots. =/
@@ender5817 The specific behavior mentioned here is a (to my knowledge confirmed) bug, it often happens at around 110-120 knots, way before RBS should set in, or Vne should be of any consideration.
@@jubuttib gotcha. Yeah 110 does seem a little low, Vne is a dynamic number that's not fixed despite what the red tape on your airspeed indicator would have you believe.
Blade stall can be entered earlier than structural Vne based on conditions, gross weights and the types of maneuvers being performed.
But 110-120kias does seem extraordinarily low - though I won't say impossible.
Gona agree that she's probably bugging out.
That unstable nature that you said "for some reason" is what annoys me the most, such an unstable chopper, and even light if you need a sudden manouver, that engine dies on you pretty quickly
Nah I just had happy feet on the pedals. My pedals stick a little and it causes me to “dance”. 😂 And the engine shouldn’t die during a sudden maneuver.
Dear all Apache content creators. Please turn on the controller indicator for instructional videos.
I didn’t think it was essential for this one but I’ll turn it on in the future. Thanks for watching!
@@schoolio64D You don't understand how bad I am at helicoptering. Believe me I need it LOL :)
"Being an Army officer, I'm pretty good at spreadsheets." Yes, but your real skill has to be with PowerPoint, doesn't it, sir?
I do wear my PowerPoint tab proudly. 😂
Are all attack helicopters so underpowered?
No, back when it was originally designed, it had plenty of power. In the years since, and the evolution from a to D models, the army decided to add a lot more equipment on the aircraft, which subsequently reduced the power margins. The E model allegedly fixes a lot of these issues.
Dash 10?
Sorry, Army speak for the operators manual.
@@schoolio64D oh, thank you!
As a retired Swedish Armed Forces K-9, some things aren't crystal clear👍
"You can see..." Can't see shit - have to take your word for it.
What can’t you see?
@@schoolio64D
Power numbers and what not.
I’ll be sure to turn up the symbology to full bright next time. Thanks.
@@schoolio64D
What?
Said me and schoolio down by the schoolyard.
2:06 :D
What game is this?
DCS
@@schoolio64D I looked it up right after asking haha. Never seen it before. I fly 64s and thought this looked pretty dope.
@@SubParPilot my last flight in a D-model was in 2005. Never stopped loving the aircraft or the mission…just the lifestyle of an RLO.
@@schoolio64D
Ya I'm a fairly junior aviator. Only ever flown echoes. I'm glad I went the warrant route.
@@SubParPilot If I could do it all over again.....
Sub cuz I wanna get my heli license. This is gonna help
you have almost the same voice as Matt Wagner ... hmmmmm
I don't really think so, but maybe that's a compliment? LOL