Also I didn't even realize until you mentioned it--Luz and Belos both use fantasy and the idea of being a "hero" beloved by all as an escape. Luz stayed in the demon realm to become a fantasy hero, like the ones she read about. Belos stayed to become a witch hunter and destroy satanic magic, just like he heard of from others around him.
Luz's entire character goes against conformity and embraces her differences from the rest of society as a good thing, whereas I think Belos represents the consequences of conformity
That is true. I read that Puritans (early colonization in Early U S history) were very devout Christians and were taught not to have self-expression. For example, Anne Bradford (one of the earliest colonialism writers) wrote great written works related to her life. However, she was in constant anxiety with her obedience to God and her want to self-express. The Puritans (at that time) were very religious and community oriented. They saw the natives and the African Americans as lesser than them and merely tools. Belos carry that mindset all throughout his time in that dimension. Unlike him, the people of Puritan thought did change over the centuries and evolved in politics, moral issues, and religion. Take, for example, Sarah Kemble Knight and Thomas Paine. The series reflects a lot about the bad side of Early U S history since (please correct me if I am wrong), Gravesfield looks like a colonialist town.
@FF Conformity is what leads to genocide. The banality of evil is what allows dictators to rise to positions of power where they may carry out mass killings.
to add to belos' intelligence, he discovered all these glyphs and learned how to use them despite it being hinted that the titan was actively HIDING them from him. dude's wild.
He didn't learn all of them by himself, though. Lilith & Luz jumped into the past & invariably helped Philip Wittebane, which led to Belos becoming even worse than how he was originally. I mean, he already was a witch hunter willing to commit mass murder/witch genocide just to placate his archaic Puritan beliefs.
yeee, I know! I watched Luz get all frustrated over helping Belos as well. that doesn't mitigate the fact that she really only showed him one glyph as opposed to the other ones that he found and learned by himself. I'm not playing genocidal asshole apologist, I was just adding on another point to the fact that he was intelligent.
@@shubs9532 I'm not disagreeing, nor dispelling, your point, but as Luz lamented, her helping him with the light glyph let him have the final piece of the puzzle that he needed after discovering the others for himself. As a counterargument to Luz's self-loathing, Hunter reminds her that Belos manipulated everyone, from his most devout subordinates to his most powerful enemies.
At 22:18 It's ironic that _he_ wants to remain in his fantasy yet, _Luz_ was supposed to go to a "Reality Check" camp. But she knew the difference of fantasy and reality better then Belos ever did, and he never will. _HE'S_ the one should be sent to,"Reality Check," camp. And also, Belos wanted to change the world and people around him, instead of trying to change _himself_ and his beliefs/point of view. Luz learned to change her POV of being this "Chosen One," unlike Belos. Belos basically saw himself as a martyr/savior of his old Puritan beliefs. Unlike Caleb who _chose_ to change _his_ beliefs and became open minded to Boiling Isles thanks to Evelyn.
Don't forget that where Luz had loving and supportive people to help her see this truth and to grow as a result. Belos, aside from his golden guard grimwalkers, had no such love and support. (Even though Kikimora strikes me as a witch who has a big crush on Belos.)
NON CANON USELESS FAN THEORY WITH NO MEANING FOR THE SERIES Let's not forget that Philip can almost be called a scientist. And scientists in the 17th century were also considered sorcerers, which is why Belos could be accused of witchcraft since childhood, which gave him a bad association with magic. Maybe he was annoyed by the fact that his genius was mistaken for witchcraft, and not his achievements thanks to the intelligence that God gave him. Also I like the idea that Belos could change, but he just don’t want to. Because if he did that means his whole life mean nothing
Agreed! It's funny how it all worked back then, because it was so convenient to blame everything that people misunderstood or were afraid of on witchcraft and point fingers and baseless accusations at anyone you didn't vibe with. Wild.
Hm, when I looked into it to verify this idea, there was conflicting information about the Puritan views on science. Nonetheless, it is notable and it appears like an intentional choice to make Belos seem so "progressive" in a lot of ways that he would have likely become an outcast in Puritan society sooner or later. His also not minding at all that Luz is a woman of color is something to take note of, even if we consider that he might just be glad to meet any fellow human. He compliments her a lot and seems to enjoy his interactions with her, and he treats her as basically an equal. Yes, he also pretends to view witches as equals, but only until he doesn't have to anymore. And then, we see the contrast between how he interacts with Kikimora and how he interacts with Luz.
There is some irony that in the fact that Belos is probably the most progressive man from the 1600s youll ever meet. Then again Disney probably would not let them have Belos dropping slurs since no matter how evil any character is they never really do anything like that.
There's also a subtle hint that he would be hanged sooner or later by Gravesfield even if he didn't leave to find his brother. He's left-handed. You can see when he shakes Luz's hand, it's his left. He uses magic and weapons with his left. And in Puritan Society, left-handed is the sign of the devil. This is why Philip is shown writing with his right hand. A cruel irony is that Philip will never be accepted into the human society he longed for.
I think there's another aspect that adds to Philip's character that explains why he's so determined to deny the truth. His brother seemed to be all he had, his only family and probably his only real friend, he was incredibly reliant on him. And when caleb chose to pursue a new life, away from his brother and the pressures of being a witch hunter.....well, of course Philip wants to believe caleb had to be under a spell . Because thinking otherwise means thinking his own brother lied to him, or worse, that he chose to abandon him and leave him behind. And Philip really wants to look at caleb through rose tinted glasses, to think caleb would never do something like that unless he was under something. Caleb in reality, most likely did this thinking Philip would be fine on his own, or worse, he hadn't thought too deeply at all about what would happen to Philip because he had been so preoccupied on himself. Its like with luz and camilia, how luz left for her own needs but never intended to hurt her mom, but how her mom felt like luz hated her or did something wrong because luz left. I think its easier for Philip to accept caleb didn't do it of his own free will then to think his brother might of hated their life together. And caleb, well, he was meeting eve in secret. He had been hiding all his emotions from Philip, his growth, its probably exactly why his behavior feels so jarring to him and not like the caleb he knew. Not being honest with his brother, and handling stuff how he did by running away from his issues, ended up hurting Philip....which made him worse unintentionally. And Philip wants desperately for things to be how he remembers them because as far as he thinks, caleb was happy with their life together and never wanted to leave it on purpose. It probably is why he keeps making the grimwalkers, not only does he want caleb back in the way he was before he left, but he wants him to never leave him like he did. In a way, Philip seems to have his own ingrained abandonment issues. Great video, glad to see a video touch on his character so deeply and how tragic he is.
Side note: while Philip is bad and his deeds are terrible, what makes him so interesting is in some ways, you feel a little bad for him. Luz got lucky to find family and friends who accepted her, who helped her grow. But for Philip? Not only did his only family and friend leave him, but caleb was his caretaker too. Caleb spent years encouraging their witch hunting and being there for him, only to leave him so he start a new family somewhere else, without him. Leaving Philip in a horrible community that only encouraged his bigoted behavior, with no one to pull him out of it now. That can be absolutely traumatizing depending on just how young he was when it happened, especially if caleb didn't even tell Philip he was leaving. Of course he hates witches, because now he thinks they took his brother away, the only light of his life. He sets out to save him and spends what looks like years trying to do so just to find out he's fine, completely fine, he just never planned to go home to him. Like even though Philip tells himself Evelyn did something to caleb, the other option that caleb just abandoned Philip ain't any better tbh. Caleb was a good, but incredibly flawed being himself. He learned and grew to be better, but it also looks like running away from his problems and not talking with his brother came to bite him. Philip definitely had options to grow and learn, but he was definitely not given the best start in life to learn either. Even caleb had Evelyn to help him, all Philip had was nothing but misunderstandings that fed into his hatred. And its sad too, because everything about Philip reads that he would've thrived on the isles under better circumstances, that he would've been happy there. I think in some ways Philip envies luz, who talked it out with camilia where caleb never did with philip. In another life, the brothers would've been happy on the isles together, but their issues and lack of communication prevented it, and thats what makes them so tragic.
@@jlwiseman98 Since Luz is always afraid of being seen as the same as Belos, to the point that her worst nightmare is wearing his Emperor garb and ruling the Boiling Isles with an iron fist, it should be poetic that she uses the same connection she has with Philip... and show what Belos could have had if he had just let go of his prejudices. And Belos would break down even further because he realized he couldn't even be happy even if he did succeed with his goal.
One thing I do appreciate about the Owl House is that it shows Phillips back story and then concludes 'Cool motive. Still murder.' Redeemable villains or villains with complex sympathetic backgrounds are great. But they've been aped to the point that I'm always happy to see one where we examine the fact that 'yeah no, sometimes a person really is just a harmful scumbag'.
I appreciate that you took a nuanced look at Belos, since a lot of the fandom doesn’t realize how deep the foil Belos is to Luz goes, and what the true symbolism behind Belos is.
Thank you, I’m glad to hear that ♥️ The idea came from my co-writer for this video, M. Jenny D.! I personally love character foils in fiction and I am glad that the writers of TOH put so much time and effort into giving us a villain thematically related to the protagonist, it’s very satisfying to watch.
@@golden-prism I mean, it was getting quite tiring of hearing other TOH lore nerds brush over the fact that belos is meant to be a foil of Luz, so I really appreciate you going over this fact :D!! (The lack of nuance in some takes was quite exhausting when it happened over and over again haha^^)
What’s interesting about his “witch Hunter” outfit is that it’s Caleb’s outfit, Belos’ desire is really childish when you boil it down, he wants to be what the biggest thing wouldve been when he was a kid
Yes yes yes! Belos is a villain by CHOICE. It's both a sobering and hopeful perspective - realizing we may choose to be villains.... And realizing we can choose NOT to be the villain. Our lives are not predestined - we choose our own paths - tying back to Eda's advice in the second episode ("That's why you have to choose YOURSELF"). Such a good video!!
That same advice is repeated back to Luz following her supposed "death" (done so The Collector could understand "what death means to mortals" since Luz is the only mortal human on the Boiling Isles aside from Philip Wittebane/Belos himself & her mother Camilla Noceda, who was trapped as a puppet thrall in The Collector's personal archives inside the crown of the Titan) by King's dad (who is both king & queen, as something akin to how God is described in The Bible, although religious leaders tend to use male pronouns when speaking about His deeds, whether they be divine or as a human through the vessel of "son" Jesus) once he rescues her from basically dying completely.
The greatest villains are the ones who see themselves as not villains but heroes doing whatever it takes. He definitely says as much in the show where he sees himself as a hero to humanity and saving their souls when he's the very evil that modern society would condemn.
i miss the villains that can just be pure evil. Belos is a breath of fresh air, he doesnt get developed, he doesnt have a tragic backstory, hes just a bitter old man
the effort that must have gone into this video is insane. the editting, the art, the scripting, the voiceover, and most of all, the thinking- wow. it was all very entertaining and informative, thank you for sharing!
11:55 and we also have to keep in mind, Philip probably sees himself as a martyr for this. Sacrificing his soul, his humanity, to protect the rest of human kind. And I mean I’ve heard people claim Philip is just making excuses and is pure evil but if you look at his interactions with luz, especially when trying to convince her to leave with him, he truly believes he’s saving her, and that witches are evil. I find that far more compelling than just “oh he’s evil and wants to destroy people just because”
@@golden-prism Personally, I think that if they were to have redeemed him or set him on a path of change it would NEED to start in the human realm. It’s the one place where he would be forced to confront how things have changed and that even the church would see him as monstrous. Also people seeing him as a monster would lead to some interesting scenarios imo.
@@boxman7044 Well, if Philip was redeemable, there would be very, very little chance of that happening, because literally everyone in the demon realm would hate him to death after finding out about the unit, he would be branded crazy when he went to the human realm and he would die for not being able to consume palisman.
@@Hank_wimbleton_2002 there is no confirmation that he *needs* to eat palisman to survive that’s purely conjecture. And let’s be honest, if it happened in the human realm without him absorbing the titan, do you honestly believe with how fanatical his cult government was, that he wouldn’t have quite a few loyalists? The world is rarely so black and white, there are always those who remain devoted even when wronged. And considering how much luz wants to essentially be a Disney protagonist I could see her at least trying to find a place for Philip. And for him to be redeemed he would have to devote his life to repairing the damage he has caused, it would take a very long time for him to move on, and I doubt he’d forgive himself, because for him to be redeemed he’d have to change, he’d have to accept that the witches are innocent people, and considering his desire to be a hero it would crush him and his world view. I believe if they went the redemption path it would take a very careful approach to reasonably achieve.
@@boxman7044 If even in the last episode in season 3, Philip in his last seconds of life refused to change his way of thinking, what makes you believe he would change it if he were still alive? It's the same as Lionel Starkweather, who, being in his last seconds of life, tried to convince Cash that he was doing the right thing and ended up decapitated and with a chainsaw stuck in his back for all the atrocities he did.
I think another thing to note is how Philips goal isn't necessarily aligned with the living; everything about Philips psyche is directly focused on saving the 'souls of humanity' by any means necessary- which for him is the entire eradication of witches and their magic. His entire life has been a series of events revolving around the concept of the soul and human life above all else, after all the only person in Philips life that he truly regards in a meaningful way is Caleb. Every single other living being on the boiling Ilses is just a means to an end he can candidly disregard after getting what's he wants from their uses- whether he uses them and leads them to their death, as is hinted at with blue tooth; but more specifically with all the Hunter clones being killed and reborn for him to try and 'save' again and again when Hunter inevitably diverges away from Philip. The only other individual he regards with any shred of decency and genuine care is Luz, who is another human being, and even when she proves to be unswayed by his rhetoric time and again, he still falls victim to her when she 'gives in', because shes a human and he wants to save her soul from the evil of the witches.
For me its lies against truth, control against acceptance. Belo lies to himself and others about who he is, doesn't accept he's not even human in his last moments, while Luz starts off being lied to that she's the problem, a lie she believes and tells herself, while also lying about who she is to please others (tunnel of love for example) until she finds others and they help each other break down the lies that plague hunter, amity, gus, willow... and form a family of acceptance. The Collector fits in by being a mirror and microcosm of the effects of each approach
Imagine if Belos came after Titans death and once the giant tree was already there... "My name is Belos, I speek for the Tree, abandon Wild Magic or I'll break your knee"
I would love to see the coven video. I rewatch your other owl house videos when I can't sleep sometimes bc your points are so good and your voice is so soothing
I feel like the brothers are parallel to the brothers Abel and Cain from the Bible. Belos probably was initially romantically interested in the Witch. But rhe witch was interested in Caleb cause she sensed Belos was a little off. Belos then gets jealous and tells himself that this was all the witches fault and created a narrative of him doing this all to "save" his brother by ending him before he could fall further into "sin"
2:12 personally there are some villains in that category that aren't so bad.........I speak of the core or bill cipher........they are destructive forces that poses a significant threat and are way beyond morals because to them they are meaningless. they know what they do is destructive but they just don't care. bill see reality itself as a chain that needs to be broken, the core is a one minded machine with a purpose to fulfill and the moment that purpose, no matter how cruel, is taken away they decide to drag all of amphibia down with them because if they don't get what they want, no one does. sure its not like they are exactly pure evil, but they are veeeeery close, like one is a real demon, the other a soulless monster machine. they are selfish, manipulative, greedy but they manage to be compelling and memorable antagonists.
There's a lot of stuff about Belos and Caleb that the show unfortunately never got to explore, but judging purely from what we got on the screen, I feel like it might be a wrong takeaway to focus on the parallels between Belos and Luz. I say this because even though they at first appear significant, they are actually quite shallow. The show even calls this out in the last episode when Belos convinces the Collector to trap Luz in a false reality where she has taken Belos' place, and nothing adds up. In the end the only thing that rings true about that experience are Luz's fears about the harm she believes she's caused (but actually hasn't) and she is easily able to escape the illusion. Despite both being humans stuck in the Demon Realm, the biggest difference between Luz and Belos is that Belos never really allowed himself to see the inhabitants of the boiling isles as people, but Luz did. Though they both my want to be the heroes of their own stories, Luz has proved time and again that she will not sacrifice anyone else to get what she wants, but this was something Belos built his life on. Rather, Belos' role as a villian I think is more effective as a foil for Luz's kindness. Belos is able to trick and manipulate her so easily because she sees the best in everyone. The show explicitly points out how this in abd of itself isn't bad, after all, this is what let's Luz empathize with the Collector. Luz's whole journey is about learning to be more careful about who she chooses to share her kindness with, and recognize those who genuinely want to be understood like she does, and those who aren't coming from a place of emotional honesty. In the end, I feel like Belos wants to convince Luz of how alike they are as a sort of emotional shield, a way to say "well I may have done all these bad things, but you could have too" and no, she couldn't. It rings hollow because Luz's defining characteristic is empathy for others, which is something Belos doesn't allow himself to feel. Side note, and this is speculation, but there may be some Caleb baggage tied up in that element of Belos' character. If Caleb was made to change his mind about witches and demons because he could empathize with them, of course Phillip would see this as a betrayal, and come away from it with this twisted view that he, as a human, is above the creatures he meets in the Demon Realm (which is certainly how he acts when we first meet him in the show). Also speculation, and IDK if anyone has brought this up before, but it's neat that Caleb and Phillip's last name is "Wittebane". "Witte" being close to the germanic root "wicce" for "witch", and "bane" being a word that means "the enemy of". Basically Phillip "Witchbane". This hints at Phillip and Caleb as being members of a family of witch hunters, and if the show had been given more time to explore it, could also have provided more insight into their parents. We could easily imagine Caleb being disowned by his parents after he sees that the Demon Realm isn't all bad, a real fear Luz had at first when she tried to go back home after being stuck there, versus Camilla's willingness to be open and accepting of people in the Boiling Iles because she trusts her daughter.
One thing I never understood is why we call Belos a colonizer. Unless you think colonizer = white people, he is not one. He was born and grew up in america, he did not choose to be born in a colony, and it6s not like he just could have left. Furthermore, he did not colonize the boiling isles, but simply became emperor. Colonization is a geopolitical term, belos is not exploiting the isles for natural resources, hes trying to kill them all.
I really like belos, his complexity shows he's basically the best of both worlds when it comes to villains. He has his views/reasons and yet in the end he's still a evil villain for the sake of being evil
One of the best things with how they handle Bellos is that they never fall into becoming Anti-religious wile Bellos is a verry historically and religious tied figure in his backstory. (the cult thing isn’t what I’m including in this since religions and cults are not congruent) Honestly I’d be really interested in hearing what over seas viewers (non American or European) viewers think of Bellos/the historical ties. It isn’t ever stated/explained about the actual historical precedent. It’s interesting.
As an Argentinian who has read a little about the history of Connecticut (which also exists in the TOH universe) I can say that there are certain flaws in terms of historical terms of Philip's origin. Although only TOH's Connecticut is fictional, I would like to analyze a little of the real Connecticut. In TOH it is mentioned that Caleb and Philip arrived in Gravesfield in 1613, which says that it was a colony of Connecticut, but in historical terms the colony of Connecticut had been established in 1636 (23 years later) because in 1613 that part was still inhabited by natives . Although the first exploration of Connecticut was in 1614 by Adriaen Block. Also, the first Puritans began arriving in Connecticut in 1635-1636 and the witch trials began in 1647, so Caleb in Philip would have had to become witch hunters 34 years later. I know that maybe the dates were only changed in the program to somehow simplify it, but if you want to use historical things, at least do it correctly instead of creating an unnecessary anachronism that could confuse those who are not fond of history.
the owl house is very much about the duel between pre-defined narratives and self-delusions over self-assurance and self-determination enumerate examples ChatGPT said: ChatGPT Luz vs. Conformity (Pre-defined Narrative): Luz is initially expected to follow the typical path of a normal human life, including school and social conformity. However, she rejects this to pursue her passion for magic and the Boiling Isles, representing self-determination over societal expectations. Eda’s Curse (Self-Delusion): Eda initially hides her curse from others, deluding herself into thinking she can manage it alone. Her journey toward accepting help and confronting her curse symbolizes the shift from self-delusion to self-assurance. Belos’s Tyranny (Pre-defined Narrative): Emperor Belos enforces the idea that magic must be controlled under his strict covenants, promoting a rigid, authoritarian system. His vision reflects a pre-defined narrative, which he enforces through lies and manipulation, while characters like Eda, Luz, and others resist this control in favor of personal freedom. Amity’s Parents (Pre-defined Narrative): Amity's parents, especially her mother, push her to follow a specific, controlled path of perfection and societal status. Amity's character arc is about rejecting these expectations to embrace her own values and self-determination, particularly in her relationship with Luz. King’s Identity (Self-Delusion): King initially believes he is a mighty ruler trapped in a small body. As he grows, he confronts the delusion of grandeur and grapples with the truth of his origins, leading to greater self-assurance and agency. Hunter (Self-Delusion): Raised as the Golden Guard under Belos’s rule, Hunter believes he has a significant, honorable role to play. Over time, he comes to understand the truth about his origins and Belos’s manipulation, leading him to choose his own path. The Collector (Pre-defined Narrative vs. Self-Determination): The Collector is trapped in a role as a cosmic entity meant to observe and play cruel games, dictated by higher powers. However, as he interacts with Luz and King, he begins to question this narrative and consider a new path where empathy and friendship guide his decisions. You said: what about lilith ChatGPT said: ChatGPT Lilith exemplifies the struggle between pre-defined narratives and self-delusion over self-assurance and self-determination in several key ways: Pre-defined Narrative (The Emperor’s Coven): Lilith is deeply committed to the Emperor’s Coven, believing in the rigid hierarchy and authoritarian control imposed by Belos. She spends years aspiring to fit into this mold, seeing it as the pinnacle of magical achievement and personal worth. Self-Delusion (Justifying Her Actions): Lilith deludes herself into thinking her actions are justified, particularly in cursing Eda to secure her place in the Emperor’s Coven. She convinces herself that following Belos’s system is the only path to success and redemption, blinding herself to the harm she causes. Self-assurance (Breaking Away from Belos): Lilith’s arc shifts when she realizes the truth about Emperor Belos’s manipulation and the harm she’s caused her sister. She begins to reject the pre-defined narrative imposed on her and gradually gains self-assurance by working to repair her relationship with Eda and taking responsibility for her past actions. Self-determination (Redemption and New Path): After leaving the Emperor’s Coven, Lilith forges her own path, focusing on scholarship and reconnecting with her own values outside of the rigid structures she once believed in. This marks her full transition from self-delusion and submission to a corrupt system, to self-determination and authenticity. You said: what about Papa Titan and what he told Luz? ChatGPT said: ChatGPT Papa Titan’s message to Luz is a pivotal moment in The Owl House, directly addressing the tension between pre-defined narratives and self-determination: Pre-defined Narrative (Predestined Role of a Hero): Papa Titan reveals to Luz that she was never destined to defeat Belos or fulfill some grand, cosmic role. He emphasizes that there was no prophecy or divine plan forcing her into this position, directly subverting the common trope of the “chosen one” in fantasy narratives. Self-delusion (Luz’s Self-Doubt): Throughout the series, Luz struggles with feelings of inadequacy, especially as she compares herself to the witches around her. She often feels she must live up to the expectations of being a hero or savior, which leads to self-doubt and a fear that she might fail those she cares about. Self-assurance (Trusting Herself): Papa Titan’s message gives Luz the freedom to define her own path. By telling her that she isn’t bound to some predetermined role, he empowers her to trust in her own decisions and capabilities. Luz realizes that her value comes not from fulfilling a prophecy but from her own choices, strengths, and relationships. Self-determination (Choosing Her Own Path): With this newfound understanding, Luz confronts Belos not as a “chosen one” but as someone fighting for her friends and her world out of personal conviction. This reflects her growth into a self-determined individual, freed from the burden of following a scripted role and embracing her own agency. You said: the coven system itself came from some delusional narrative that free magic is dangerous ChatGPT said: ChatGPT Yes, the Coven System in The Owl House is a prime example of a delusional narrative that stems from fear and manipulation: Delusional Narrative (Free Magic is Dangerous): The Coven System, imposed by Emperor Belos, is based on the false premise that uncontrolled or "wild" magic is inherently dangerous. This fear is propagated as a way to control the magical community, limiting individuals to only one school of magic to ensure they conform to a rigid, authoritarian structure. Manipulation (Belos's Self-Delusion): Belos himself deludes both the public and, to some extent, even himself with the idea that magic must be restricted for safety. In reality, his true motivation is to suppress magic for his own ends, driven by his hatred for witches and magic. His personal vendetta is disguised as a necessary societal safeguard, creating a false narrative that justifies the Coven System’s existence. Self-determination (Breaking Free): Characters like Eda, Luz, and eventually the broader community of witches begin to reject this system as they discover the truth. Eda, who practices wild magic and refuses to join a coven, embodies the fight against this imposed narrative, while Luz’s human perspective allows her to see the absurdity of the system. As the series progresses, more characters realize that the true danger lies in the restriction of magic, not in its free practice.
Villains aren't always antagonists either. Breaking Bad, Villainous, Joker, Dead Cells are only some examples of shows, movies and games where the protagonist is a villain or becomes a villain
I would like to note, towards the beginning you state that "Villains are always antagonists." But that is not actually true. It is fairly rare, but take for example, the anime Death Note. Light is the protagonist, however, HE is the villain of the story, and the hero is L, who is the antagonist.
Kinda,sorta, the strange thing is ,no L is just as bad if not kinda worse then light Near Is far more closer to actual "good" guy because he isn't playing a chess game just trying to solve a crime before it gets worse
As Papa Titan said: he is not doing all of that because he cares about people, but because he needs to be the hero... And so, he turned into a villain...
Not on topic, but the wooden mask Belos has both as a kid and as an adult gives me Majora’s Mask Vibes. Something eery about bark on someone’s face with horns. That kind of stereotype of children in horror genres.
It is so sad. I am craving toh content so much and this video is very good, but the 3rd season isn‘t released yet in my country and i‘m spoiling myself extremelyXD its worth it tho
Phillip is what Luz would have been if she didn't grow up and accept reality; Phillip is still trying to live out his fantasy even though he's 400 years old
Okay I have another comparison between belos and another character and that is stan from gravity falls. If you look at it both of them were close to their brothers and they wanted to be a team and go on adventures together. Then life threw them a curve ball. Caleb meeting and falling in love with evelyn and ford getting into his dream school and the machine. Both belos and stan became angry and ryined the brothers lives in some way. While stan dod feel guilty and tried to bring his brother back and atone for what happened belos just wants his brother back so he could be the center of attention and be the hero
Belos reminds me of Amon from The Legend Of Korra both people loved by everyone both hate and want to get rid of people with powers and have equality both clame to comuntcat with a entity and both of them turn out to be compleat frauds and both of them changed there names and both of them have a brother and both of them have a scar across his face and both of them ware a mask
I have question that has been bothering me why did Caleb never try to stop beloas I mean the only time that we see him do anything to try sitop beloas is when he has a knife to his throat he had all the time to raise Philip . He rais Philip and if he did believe the which hunt were a good thing why not teach his brother that but he just let heim sinks deippee into darkness and the left him to live with love. He abandoned Phipps and left him for the demon world . The name didn't help either.. Caleb to our knowledge made and effort to educate Philip . This may an unpopular opinion but Caleb made belos I bee proven wrong but as far as we know Caleb had every chance to stop Philip and lead him down a better path but he didn't he left him behind for his happiness
Unfortunately none of this is canon. And by the way, the show never implied even in slightest that Belos had trouble fitting in. He looks pretty happy about the whole witch hunting on the pictures
Well, it's not like he has any other way of reacting. I suppose that as a child Philip did not know how to react to certain things due to his early emotional development and perhaps when he grew up and had more awareness, he realized what he was doing to him but perhaps he no longer cared. It also happens with soldiers in war. When they kill too much, they get used to it and it becomes everyday for them.
I kin Luz.
As you should 🙏
Same
trueeee
GOLDEN PRISM GREAT ❤VIDEO ❤
Same bro
Also I didn't even realize until you mentioned it--Luz and Belos both use fantasy and the idea of being a "hero" beloved by all as an escape. Luz stayed in the demon realm to become a fantasy hero, like the ones she read about. Belos stayed to become a witch hunter and destroy satanic magic, just like he heard of from others around him.
Luz's entire character goes against conformity and embraces her differences from the rest of society as a good thing, whereas I think Belos represents the consequences of conformity
That is true. I read that Puritans (early colonization in Early U S history) were very devout Christians and were taught not to have self-expression. For example, Anne Bradford (one of the earliest colonialism writers) wrote great written works related to her life. However, she was in constant anxiety with her obedience to God and her want to self-express. The Puritans (at that time) were very religious and community oriented. They saw the natives and the African Americans as lesser than them and merely tools. Belos carry that mindset all throughout his time in that dimension. Unlike him, the people of Puritan thought did change over the centuries and evolved in politics, moral issues, and religion. Take, for example, Sarah Kemble Knight and Thomas Paine. The series reflects a lot about the bad side of Early U S history since (please correct me if I am wrong), Gravesfield looks like a colonialist town.
@FF Conformity is what leads to genocide. The banality of evil is what allows dictators to rise to positions of power where they may carry out mass killings.
@FF he tried to commit mass genocide because of the beliefs he had from living in such a horrible mindset during his time on earth
@FF he was trying to commit genocide against those he saw as the enemy, those who did not fit in. Pretty on brand.
to add to belos' intelligence, he discovered all these glyphs and learned how to use them despite it being hinted that the titan was actively HIDING them from him. dude's wild.
He didn't learn all of them by himself, though. Lilith & Luz jumped into the past & invariably helped Philip Wittebane, which led to Belos becoming even worse than how he was originally. I mean, he already was a witch hunter willing to commit mass murder/witch genocide just to placate his archaic Puritan beliefs.
yeee, I know! I watched Luz get all frustrated over helping Belos as well. that doesn't mitigate the fact that she really only showed him one glyph as opposed to the other ones that he found and learned by himself. I'm not playing genocidal asshole apologist, I was just adding on another point to the fact that he was intelligent.
@@shubs9532 I'm not disagreeing, nor dispelling, your point, but as Luz lamented, her helping him with the light glyph let him have the final piece of the puzzle that he needed after discovering the others for himself. As a counterargument to Luz's self-loathing, Hunter reminds her that Belos manipulated everyone, from his most devout subordinates to his most powerful enemies.
At 22:18 It's ironic that _he_ wants to remain in his fantasy yet, _Luz_ was supposed to go to a "Reality Check" camp. But she knew the difference of fantasy and reality better then Belos ever did, and he never will. _HE'S_ the one should be sent to,"Reality Check," camp.
And also, Belos wanted to change the world and people around him, instead of trying to change _himself_ and his beliefs/point of view. Luz learned to change her POV of being this "Chosen One," unlike Belos. Belos basically saw himself as a martyr/savior of his old Puritan beliefs. Unlike Caleb who _chose_ to change _his_ beliefs and became open
minded to Boiling Isles thanks to Evelyn.
Don't forget that where Luz had loving and supportive people to help her see this truth and to grow as a result. Belos, aside from his golden guard grimwalkers, had no such love and support. (Even though Kikimora strikes me as a witch who has a big crush on Belos.)
NON CANON USELESS FAN THEORY WITH NO MEANING FOR THE SERIES
Let's not forget that Philip can almost be called a scientist. And scientists in the 17th century were also considered sorcerers, which is why Belos could be accused of witchcraft since childhood, which gave him a bad association with magic. Maybe he was annoyed by the fact that his genius was mistaken for witchcraft, and not his achievements thanks to the intelligence that God gave him. Also I like the idea that Belos could change, but he just don’t want to. Because if he did that means his whole life mean nothing
Agreed!
It's funny how it all worked back then, because it was so convenient to blame everything that people misunderstood or were afraid of on witchcraft and point fingers and baseless accusations at anyone you didn't vibe with. Wild.
Hm, when I looked into it to verify this idea, there was conflicting information about the Puritan views on science. Nonetheless, it is notable and it appears like an intentional choice to make Belos seem so "progressive" in a lot of ways that he would have likely become an outcast in Puritan society sooner or later. His also not minding at all that Luz is a woman of color is something to take note of, even if we consider that he might just be glad to meet any fellow human. He compliments her a lot and seems to enjoy his interactions with her, and he treats her as basically an equal. Yes, he also pretends to view witches as equals, but only until he doesn't have to anymore. And then, we see the contrast between how he interacts with Kikimora and how he interacts with Luz.
There is some irony that in the fact that Belos is probably the most progressive man from the 1600s youll ever meet. Then again Disney probably would not let them have Belos dropping slurs since no matter how evil any character is they never really do anything like that.
There's also a subtle hint that he would be hanged sooner or later by Gravesfield even if he didn't leave to find his brother. He's left-handed. You can see when he shakes Luz's hand, it's his left. He uses magic and weapons with his left. And in Puritan Society, left-handed is the sign of the devil. This is why Philip is shown writing with his right hand.
A cruel irony is that Philip will never be accepted into the human society he longed for.
yeah he was......kinda of a scientist himself.
I think there's another aspect that adds to Philip's character that explains why he's so determined to deny the truth.
His brother seemed to be all he had, his only family and probably his only real friend, he was incredibly reliant on him.
And when caleb chose to pursue a new life, away from his brother and the pressures of being a witch hunter.....well, of course Philip wants to believe caleb had to be under a spell .
Because thinking otherwise means thinking his own brother lied to him, or worse, that he chose to abandon him and leave him behind. And Philip really wants to look at caleb through rose tinted glasses, to think caleb would never do something like that unless he was under something.
Caleb in reality, most likely did this thinking Philip would be fine on his own, or worse, he hadn't thought too deeply at all about what would happen to Philip because he had been so preoccupied on himself.
Its like with luz and camilia, how luz left for her own needs but never intended to hurt her mom, but how her mom felt like luz hated her or did something wrong because luz left.
I think its easier for Philip to accept caleb didn't do it of his own free will then to think his brother might of hated their life together.
And caleb, well, he was meeting eve in secret. He had been hiding all his emotions from Philip, his growth, its probably exactly why his behavior feels so jarring to him and not like the caleb he knew.
Not being honest with his brother, and handling stuff how he did by running away from his issues, ended up hurting Philip....which made him worse unintentionally. And Philip wants desperately for things to be how he remembers them because as far as he thinks, caleb was happy with their life together and never wanted to leave it on purpose.
It probably is why he keeps making the grimwalkers, not only does he want caleb back in the way he was before he left, but he wants him to never leave him like he did.
In a way, Philip seems to have his own ingrained abandonment issues.
Great video, glad to see a video touch on his character so deeply and how tragic he is.
Side note: while Philip is bad and his deeds are terrible, what makes him so interesting is in some ways, you feel a little bad for him.
Luz got lucky to find family and friends who accepted her, who helped her grow.
But for Philip? Not only did his only family and friend leave him, but caleb was his caretaker too. Caleb spent years encouraging their witch hunting and being there for him, only to leave him so he start a new family somewhere else, without him.
Leaving Philip in a horrible community that only encouraged his bigoted behavior, with no one to pull him out of it now.
That can be absolutely traumatizing depending on just how young he was when it happened, especially if caleb didn't even tell Philip he was leaving.
Of course he hates witches, because now he thinks they took his brother away, the only light of his life.
He sets out to save him and spends what looks like years trying to do so just to find out he's fine, completely fine, he just never planned to go home to him.
Like even though Philip tells himself Evelyn did something to caleb, the other option that caleb just abandoned Philip ain't any better tbh.
Caleb was a good, but incredibly flawed being himself. He learned and grew to be better, but it also looks like running away from his problems and not talking with his brother came to bite him.
Philip definitely had options to grow and learn, but he was definitely not given the best start in life to learn either.
Even caleb had Evelyn to help him, all Philip had was nothing but misunderstandings that fed into his hatred.
And its sad too, because everything about Philip reads that he would've thrived on the isles under better circumstances, that he would've been happy there.
I think in some ways Philip envies luz, who talked it out with camilia where caleb never did with philip.
In another life, the brothers would've been happy on the isles together, but their issues and lack of communication prevented it, and thats what makes them so tragic.
@@jlwiseman98 Since Luz is always afraid of being seen as the same as Belos, to the point that her worst nightmare is wearing his Emperor garb and ruling the Boiling Isles with an iron fist, it should be poetic that she uses the same connection she has with Philip... and show what Belos could have had if he had just let go of his prejudices. And Belos would break down even further because he realized he couldn't even be happy even if he did succeed with his goal.
One thing I do appreciate about the Owl House is that it shows Phillips back story and then concludes 'Cool motive. Still murder.'
Redeemable villains or villains with complex sympathetic backgrounds are great. But they've been aped to the point that I'm always happy to see one where we examine the fact that 'yeah no, sometimes a person really is just a harmful scumbag'.
Phillip is understandable but he's still a monster who needs to be defeated for the story to have a happy ending.
I appreciate that you took a nuanced look at Belos, since a lot of the fandom doesn’t realize how deep the foil Belos is to Luz goes, and what the true symbolism behind Belos is.
Thank you, I’m glad to hear that ♥️ The idea came from my co-writer for this video, M. Jenny D.!
I personally love character foils in fiction and I am glad that the writers of TOH put so much time and effort into giving us a villain thematically related to the protagonist, it’s very satisfying to watch.
@@golden-prism I mean, it was getting quite tiring of hearing other TOH lore nerds brush over the fact that belos is meant to be a foil of Luz, so I really appreciate you going over this fact :D!!
(The lack of nuance in some takes was quite exhausting when it happened over and over again haha^^)
Can we all appreciate this video being exactly 33 minutes long
What’s interesting about his “witch Hunter” outfit is that it’s Caleb’s outfit, Belos’ desire is really childish when you boil it down, he wants to be what the biggest thing wouldve been when he was a kid
Yes yes yes! Belos is a villain by CHOICE. It's both a sobering and hopeful perspective - realizing we may choose to be villains.... And realizing we can choose NOT to be the villain.
Our lives are not predestined - we choose our own paths - tying back to Eda's advice in the second episode ("That's why you have to choose YOURSELF"). Such a good video!!
That same advice is repeated back to Luz following her supposed "death" (done so The Collector could understand "what death means to mortals" since Luz is the only mortal human on the Boiling Isles aside from Philip Wittebane/Belos himself & her mother Camilla Noceda, who was trapped as a puppet thrall in The Collector's personal archives inside the crown of the Titan) by King's dad (who is both king & queen, as something akin to how God is described in The Bible, although religious leaders tend to use male pronouns when speaking about His deeds, whether they be divine or as a human through the vessel of "son" Jesus) once he rescues her from basically dying completely.
The greatest villains are the ones who see themselves as not villains but heroes doing whatever it takes. He definitely says as much in the show where he sees himself as a hero to humanity and saving their souls when he's the very evil that modern society would condemn.
i miss the villains that can just be pure evil. Belos is a breath of fresh air, he doesnt get developed, he doesnt have a tragic backstory, hes just a bitter old man
@@hostomelhorsehoarder I mean he kinda does
@@tobsonasanya4765 no
the effort that must have gone into this video is insane. the editting, the art, the scripting, the voiceover, and most of all, the thinking- wow. it was all very entertaining and informative, thank you for sharing!
11:55 and we also have to keep in mind, Philip probably sees himself as a martyr for this. Sacrificing his soul, his humanity, to protect the rest of human kind. And I mean I’ve heard people claim Philip is just making excuses and is pure evil but if you look at his interactions with luz, especially when trying to convince her to leave with him, he truly believes he’s saving her, and that witches are evil. I find that far more compelling than just “oh he’s evil and wants to destroy people just because”
True! He’s way too deep in his own delusions and this narrative of his to even consider the possibility that he has it all wrong.
@@golden-prism Personally, I think that if they were to have redeemed him or set him on a path of change it would NEED to start in the human realm. It’s the one place where he would be forced to confront how things have changed and that even the church would see him as monstrous. Also people seeing him as a monster would lead to some interesting scenarios imo.
@@boxman7044 Well, if Philip was redeemable, there would be very, very little chance of that happening, because literally everyone in the demon realm would hate him to death after finding out about the unit, he would be branded crazy when he went to the human realm and he would die for not being able to consume palisman.
@@Hank_wimbleton_2002 there is no confirmation that he *needs* to eat palisman to survive that’s purely conjecture. And let’s be honest, if it happened in the human realm without him absorbing the titan, do you honestly believe with how fanatical his cult government was, that he wouldn’t have quite a few loyalists? The world is rarely so black and white, there are always those who remain devoted even when wronged. And considering how much luz wants to essentially be a Disney protagonist I could see her at least trying to find a place for Philip. And for him to be redeemed he would have to devote his life to repairing the damage he has caused, it would take a very long time for him to move on, and I doubt he’d forgive himself, because for him to be redeemed he’d have to change, he’d have to accept that the witches are innocent people, and considering his desire to be a hero it would crush him and his world view. I believe if they went the redemption path it would take a very careful approach to reasonably achieve.
@@boxman7044 If even in the last episode in season 3, Philip in his last seconds of life refused to change his way of thinking, what makes you believe he would change it if he were still alive?
It's the same as Lionel Starkweather, who, being in his last seconds of life, tried to convince Cash that he was doing the right thing and ended up decapitated and with a chainsaw stuck in his back for all the atrocities he did.
OMG the part about Belos being the ultimate pick me - HAHAHA
I think another thing to note is how Philips goal isn't necessarily aligned with the living; everything about Philips psyche is directly focused on saving the 'souls of humanity' by any means necessary- which for him is the entire eradication of witches and their magic. His entire life has been a series of events revolving around the concept of the soul and human life above all else, after all the only person in Philips life that he truly regards in a meaningful way is Caleb. Every single other living being on the boiling Ilses is just a means to an end he can candidly disregard after getting what's he wants from their uses- whether he uses them and leads them to their death, as is hinted at with blue tooth; but more specifically with all the Hunter clones being killed and reborn for him to try and 'save' again and again when Hunter inevitably diverges away from Philip. The only other individual he regards with any shred of decency and genuine care is Luz, who is another human being, and even when she proves to be unswayed by his rhetoric time and again, he still falls victim to her when she 'gives in', because shes a human and he wants to save her soul from the evil of the witches.
For me its lies against truth, control against acceptance. Belo lies to himself and others about who he is, doesn't accept he's not even human in his last moments, while Luz starts off being lied to that she's the problem, a lie she believes and tells herself, while also lying about who she is to please others (tunnel of love for example) until she finds others and they help each other break down the lies that plague hunter, amity, gus, willow... and form a family of acceptance. The Collector fits in by being a mirror and microcosm of the effects of each approach
Imagine if Belos came after Titans death and once the giant tree was already there...
"My name is Belos, I speek for the Tree, abandon Wild Magic or I'll break your knee"
Anybody realize that belzos falls apart as his plans fall apart.
I would love to see the coven video. I rewatch your other owl house videos when I can't sleep sometimes bc your points are so good and your voice is so soothing
Aww, that makes me really happy ;0;
Same
I feel like the brothers are parallel to the brothers Abel and Cain from the Bible. Belos probably was initially romantically interested in the Witch. But rhe witch was interested in Caleb cause she sensed Belos was a little off. Belos then gets jealous and tells himself that this was all the witches fault and created a narrative of him doing this all to "save" his brother by ending him before he could fall further into "sin"
Belos needs to cope
2:12
personally there are some villains in that category that aren't so bad.........I speak of the core or bill cipher........they are destructive forces that poses a significant threat and are way beyond morals because to them they are meaningless. they know what they do is destructive but they just don't care. bill see reality itself as a chain that needs to be broken, the core is a one minded machine with a purpose to fulfill and the moment that purpose, no matter how cruel, is taken away they decide to drag all of amphibia down with them because if they don't get what they want, no one does. sure its not like they are exactly pure evil, but they are veeeeery close, like one is a real demon, the other a soulless monster machine. they are selfish, manipulative, greedy but they manage to be compelling and memorable antagonists.
So basically, Carl Gustav Jung would've been proud with these Hero/Shadow archetypical parallels.
There's a lot of stuff about Belos and Caleb that the show unfortunately never got to explore, but judging purely from what we got on the screen, I feel like it might be a wrong takeaway to focus on the parallels between Belos and Luz. I say this because even though they at first appear significant, they are actually quite shallow. The show even calls this out in the last episode when Belos convinces the Collector to trap Luz in a false reality where she has taken Belos' place, and nothing adds up. In the end the only thing that rings true about that experience are Luz's fears about the harm she believes she's caused (but actually hasn't) and she is easily able to escape the illusion.
Despite both being humans stuck in the Demon Realm, the biggest difference between Luz and Belos is that Belos never really allowed himself to see the inhabitants of the boiling isles as people, but Luz did. Though they both my want to be the heroes of their own stories, Luz has proved time and again that she will not sacrifice anyone else to get what she wants, but this was something Belos built his life on.
Rather, Belos' role as a villian I think is more effective as a foil for Luz's kindness. Belos is able to trick and manipulate her so easily because she sees the best in everyone. The show explicitly points out how this in abd of itself isn't bad, after all, this is what let's Luz empathize with the Collector. Luz's whole journey is about learning to be more careful about who she chooses to share her kindness with, and recognize those who genuinely want to be understood like she does, and those who aren't coming from a place of emotional honesty.
In the end, I feel like Belos wants to convince Luz of how alike they are as a sort of emotional shield, a way to say "well I may have done all these bad things, but you could have too" and no, she couldn't. It rings hollow because Luz's defining characteristic is empathy for others, which is something Belos doesn't allow himself to feel.
Side note, and this is speculation, but there may be some Caleb baggage tied up in that element of Belos' character. If Caleb was made to change his mind about witches and demons because he could empathize with them, of course Phillip would see this as a betrayal, and come away from it with this twisted view that he, as a human, is above the creatures he meets in the Demon Realm (which is certainly how he acts when we first meet him in the show).
Also speculation, and IDK if anyone has brought this up before, but it's neat that Caleb and Phillip's last name is "Wittebane". "Witte" being close to the germanic root "wicce" for "witch", and "bane" being a word that means "the enemy of". Basically Phillip "Witchbane". This hints at Phillip and Caleb as being members of a family of witch hunters, and if the show had been given more time to explore it, could also have provided more insight into their parents. We could easily imagine Caleb being disowned by his parents after he sees that the Demon Realm isn't all bad, a real fear Luz had at first when she tried to go back home after being stuck there, versus Camilla's willingness to be open and accepting of people in the Boiling Iles because she trusts her daughter.
One thing I never understood is why we call Belos a colonizer. Unless you think colonizer = white people, he is not one. He was born and grew up in america, he did not choose to be born in a colony, and it6s not like he just could have left. Furthermore, he did not colonize the boiling isles, but simply became emperor. Colonization is a geopolitical term, belos is not exploiting the isles for natural resources, hes trying to kill them all.
I really like belos, his complexity shows he's basically the best of both worlds when it comes to villains. He has his views/reasons and yet in the end he's still a evil villain for the sake of being evil
One of the best things with how they handle Bellos is that they never fall into becoming Anti-religious wile Bellos is a verry historically and religious tied figure in his backstory. (the cult thing isn’t what I’m including in this since religions and cults are not congruent)
Honestly I’d be really interested in hearing what over seas viewers (non American or European) viewers think of Bellos/the historical ties. It isn’t ever stated/explained about the actual historical precedent. It’s interesting.
As an Argentinian who has read a little about the history of Connecticut (which also exists in the TOH universe) I can say that there are certain flaws in terms of historical terms of Philip's origin. Although only TOH's Connecticut is fictional, I would like to analyze a little of the real Connecticut. In TOH it is mentioned that Caleb and Philip arrived in Gravesfield in 1613, which says that it was a colony of Connecticut, but in historical terms the colony of Connecticut had been established in 1636 (23 years later) because in 1613 that part was still inhabited by natives . Although the first exploration of Connecticut was in 1614 by Adriaen Block. Also, the first Puritans began arriving in Connecticut in 1635-1636 and the witch trials began in 1647, so Caleb in Philip would have had to become witch hunters 34 years later.
I know that maybe the dates were only changed in the program to somehow simplify it, but if you want to use historical things, at least do it correctly instead of creating an unnecessary anachronism that could confuse those who are not fond of history.
I would love to see a video from you about the coven system!
the owl house is very much about the duel between pre-defined narratives and self-delusions over self-assurance and self-determination
enumerate examples
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Luz vs. Conformity (Pre-defined Narrative): Luz is initially expected to follow the typical path of a normal human life, including school and social conformity. However, she rejects this to pursue her passion for magic and the Boiling Isles, representing self-determination over societal expectations.
Eda’s Curse (Self-Delusion): Eda initially hides her curse from others, deluding herself into thinking she can manage it alone. Her journey toward accepting help and confronting her curse symbolizes the shift from self-delusion to self-assurance.
Belos’s Tyranny (Pre-defined Narrative): Emperor Belos enforces the idea that magic must be controlled under his strict covenants, promoting a rigid, authoritarian system. His vision reflects a pre-defined narrative, which he enforces through lies and manipulation, while characters like Eda, Luz, and others resist this control in favor of personal freedom.
Amity’s Parents (Pre-defined Narrative): Amity's parents, especially her mother, push her to follow a specific, controlled path of perfection and societal status. Amity's character arc is about rejecting these expectations to embrace her own values and self-determination, particularly in her relationship with Luz.
King’s Identity (Self-Delusion): King initially believes he is a mighty ruler trapped in a small body. As he grows, he confronts the delusion of grandeur and grapples with the truth of his origins, leading to greater self-assurance and agency.
Hunter (Self-Delusion): Raised as the Golden Guard under Belos’s rule, Hunter believes he has a significant, honorable role to play. Over time, he comes to understand the truth about his origins and Belos’s manipulation, leading him to choose his own path.
The Collector (Pre-defined Narrative vs. Self-Determination): The Collector is trapped in a role as a cosmic entity meant to observe and play cruel games, dictated by higher powers. However, as he interacts with Luz and King, he begins to question this narrative and consider a new path where empathy and friendship guide his decisions.
You said:
what about lilith
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Lilith exemplifies the struggle between pre-defined narratives and self-delusion over self-assurance and self-determination in several key ways:
Pre-defined Narrative (The Emperor’s Coven): Lilith is deeply committed to the Emperor’s Coven, believing in the rigid hierarchy and authoritarian control imposed by Belos. She spends years aspiring to fit into this mold, seeing it as the pinnacle of magical achievement and personal worth.
Self-Delusion (Justifying Her Actions): Lilith deludes herself into thinking her actions are justified, particularly in cursing Eda to secure her place in the Emperor’s Coven. She convinces herself that following Belos’s system is the only path to success and redemption, blinding herself to the harm she causes.
Self-assurance (Breaking Away from Belos): Lilith’s arc shifts when she realizes the truth about Emperor Belos’s manipulation and the harm she’s caused her sister. She begins to reject the pre-defined narrative imposed on her and gradually gains self-assurance by working to repair her relationship with Eda and taking responsibility for her past actions.
Self-determination (Redemption and New Path): After leaving the Emperor’s Coven, Lilith forges her own path, focusing on scholarship and reconnecting with her own values outside of the rigid structures she once believed in. This marks her full transition from self-delusion and submission to a corrupt system, to self-determination and authenticity.
You said:
what about Papa Titan and what he told Luz?
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Papa Titan’s message to Luz is a pivotal moment in The Owl House, directly addressing the tension between pre-defined narratives and self-determination:
Pre-defined Narrative (Predestined Role of a Hero): Papa Titan reveals to Luz that she was never destined to defeat Belos or fulfill some grand, cosmic role. He emphasizes that there was no prophecy or divine plan forcing her into this position, directly subverting the common trope of the “chosen one” in fantasy narratives.
Self-delusion (Luz’s Self-Doubt): Throughout the series, Luz struggles with feelings of inadequacy, especially as she compares herself to the witches around her. She often feels she must live up to the expectations of being a hero or savior, which leads to self-doubt and a fear that she might fail those she cares about.
Self-assurance (Trusting Herself): Papa Titan’s message gives Luz the freedom to define her own path. By telling her that she isn’t bound to some predetermined role, he empowers her to trust in her own decisions and capabilities. Luz realizes that her value comes not from fulfilling a prophecy but from her own choices, strengths, and relationships.
Self-determination (Choosing Her Own Path): With this newfound understanding, Luz confronts Belos not as a “chosen one” but as someone fighting for her friends and her world out of personal conviction. This reflects her growth into a self-determined individual, freed from the burden of following a scripted role and embracing her own agency.
You said:
the coven system itself came from some delusional narrative that free magic is dangerous
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Yes, the Coven System in The Owl House is a prime example of a delusional narrative that stems from fear and manipulation:
Delusional Narrative (Free Magic is Dangerous): The Coven System, imposed by Emperor Belos, is based on the false premise that uncontrolled or "wild" magic is inherently dangerous. This fear is propagated as a way to control the magical community, limiting individuals to only one school of magic to ensure they conform to a rigid, authoritarian structure.
Manipulation (Belos's Self-Delusion): Belos himself deludes both the public and, to some extent, even himself with the idea that magic must be restricted for safety. In reality, his true motivation is to suppress magic for his own ends, driven by his hatred for witches and magic. His personal vendetta is disguised as a necessary societal safeguard, creating a false narrative that justifies the Coven System’s existence.
Self-determination (Breaking Free): Characters like Eda, Luz, and eventually the broader community of witches begin to reject this system as they discover the truth. Eda, who practices wild magic and refuses to join a coven, embodies the fight against this imposed narrative, while Luz’s human perspective allows her to see the absurdity of the system. As the series progresses, more characters realize that the true danger lies in the restriction of magic, not in its free practice.
Villains aren't always antagonists either. Breaking Bad, Villainous, Joker, Dead Cells are only some examples of shows, movies and games where the protagonist is a villain or becomes a villain
I think of Belos creating Grimwalkers as being less about the perfect reproduction than one who is perfectly obedient.
I would like to note, towards the beginning you state that "Villains are always antagonists." But that is not actually true. It is fairly rare, but take for example, the anime Death Note. Light is the protagonist, however, HE is the villain of the story, and the hero is L, who is the antagonist.
Kinda,sorta, the strange thing is ,no L is just as bad if not kinda worse then light
Near Is far more closer to actual "good" guy because he isn't playing a chess game just trying to solve a crime before it gets worse
As Papa Titan said: he is not doing all of that because he cares about people, but because he needs to be the hero... And so, he turned into a villain...
So him wanting to save humanity is a lie??
Not on topic, but the wooden mask Belos has both as a kid and as an adult gives me Majora’s Mask Vibes. Something eery about bark on someone’s face with horns. That kind of stereotype of children in horror genres.
It is so sad. I am craving toh content so much and this video is very good, but the 3rd season isn‘t released yet in my country and i‘m spoiling myself extremelyXD its worth it tho
Lore of The PARALLELS Between Luz & Belos Are CRAZY || The Owl House Video Essay Momentum 100
Phillip is what Luz would have been if she didn't grow up and accept reality; Phillip is still trying to live out his fantasy even though he's 400 years old
30:41
Okay I have another comparison between belos and another character and that is stan from gravity falls.
If you look at it both of them were close to their brothers and they wanted to be a team and go on adventures together. Then life threw them a curve ball. Caleb meeting and falling in love with evelyn and ford getting into his dream school and the machine. Both belos and stan became angry and ryined the brothers lives in some way. While stan dod feel guilty and tried to bring his brother back and atone for what happened belos just wants his brother back so he could be the center of attention and be the hero
I'd just like to comment that villains don't have to always be antagonists. They can be protagonists too.
Of course!
you voice is very nice subbed
26:14
24:47
Belos: Reject humanity embrace goop monstery.
Like this comment if you belive in goop monster supremacy.
Belos reminds me of Amon from The Legend Of Korra both people loved by everyone both hate and want to get rid of people with powers and have equality both clame to comuntcat with a entity and both of them turn out to be compleat frauds and both of them changed there names and both of them have a brother and both of them have a scar across his face and both of them ware a mask
3:26 it is the late 1700s not the1600s
I have question that has been bothering me why did Caleb never try to stop beloas I mean the only time that we see him do anything to try sitop beloas is when he has a knife to his throat he had all the time to raise Philip . He rais Philip and if he did believe the which hunt were a good thing why not teach his brother that but he just let heim sinks deippee into darkness and the left him to live with love. He abandoned Phipps and left him for the demon world . The name didn't help either.. Caleb to our knowledge made and effort to educate Philip . This may an unpopular opinion but Caleb made belos I bee proven wrong but as far as we know Caleb had every chance to stop Philip and lead him down a better path but he didn't he left him behind for his happiness
GREAT ❤❤❤INTERESTING VIDEO 💖🩷🩵
Williams Sarah Harris Ronald Walker Carol
😀💰🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖
Unfortunately none of this is canon. And by the way, the show never implied even in slightest that Belos had trouble fitting in. He looks pretty happy about the whole witch hunting on the pictures
Well, it's not like he has any other way of reacting. I suppose that as a child Philip did not know how to react to certain things due to his early emotional development and perhaps when he grew up and had more awareness, he realized what he was doing to him but perhaps he no longer cared. It also happens with soldiers in war. When they kill too much, they get used to it and it becomes everyday for them.
bad writing and fixed character development,
17:42