Camila isn’t a bad mom or a perfect mom. She’s a realistic take on what parenting can be like. I’m not a parent but at the age I’m at now, I understand parenting is complex and not always black and white.
As she said in the video, I think we have grown up watching media for kids and teens in which the parents are non-existent or are played up to be fools to make the kids smarter and more relatable on a marketing standpoint so now we can't tell which is abuse and which is just flawed but genuine love
I can honestly see Camila’s choices being rightful and good-willed. She really does care for Luz, but she wasn’t sure about how Luz felt. She did what she could to try to help her out the best she can. That last scene in Yesterday’s Lie was really sad and heartbreaking to see. I hope she’ll understand and perhaps help Luz out in the future fight against Belos
I’m betting on Camila letting Luz stay once she finds out just what the Boiling Isles is and the people she’s met there are like. Considering that Luz just mentioned the Demon Realm and nobody else in Yesterday’s Lie, it’s probably safe to assume that Camila thinks Luz is stuck in a form of hell with no way back. Any parent would freak out in that scenario.
I can't help but feel the messages Luz tried and failed to send in Separate Tides (and possibly at other points in season 2 offscreen) are going to play a big role there.
@@Maaii_laaa Didn;t she say specifically she doesn't like "Happily ever afters' and not happy endings? those two are different To add to that, no matter the decision, something "not good" will stay
One of The only things the only thing that separates Luz and Iruma is the luz does have a reason to return to the human realm. A big reason why iruma stayed in his demon realm is that even if he returned, he would have nothing to return to.
"Twitter is not a place for education". THANK YOU! way too many people are using Twitter as the gospel for insightful analysis without really reading into it and trying to understand other sides of issues that are complex. Loved this analysis of Luz and her mom: you were confident on your study but didn't come off as a forced expert or that you know better. It comes from a place of experience and we need a lot of that in our analysis of fiction.
I won't lie, Twitter was probably humanity's biggest mistake, and sadly, despite knowing how horrible, toxic and harmful it is people just still let it exist
@@ToonRuinsOfficial Hi I think camilla is a good parent to but I also think she did not communicate to cuz that she was making other people uncomfortable with her fantasy antics and may have thought the camp was her only option for cuz to develop healthy habits when she becomes an adult. I also think camilla thought camp would make cuz thrive and make friends which she did on the boiling isle with Eda king and willow Gus and Amity I don't think camilla is a bad mom just struggling to understand and communicate with her daughter
@@rachelfiter9542 tbh, how are you even gonna expect those two to have good communication when Luz literally brought snakes to school that was played off as a "gag"
There's the irony of that Luz was gonna be sent to "think inside the box" camp to learn about how to not be a chaos magnet that freaks people out, and what she got instead was the Boiling Isles, where she eventually learns to dial herself back on being a chaos magnet that causes trouble for others. (Season 1 Luz was definitely a force of chaos and distress for Amity. And eventually Luz and Amity managed to grow into understanding each other better. :) )
I'm pretty sure it's because of the idea that Alador is neurodivergent, and that Camila is not only neurotypical, but (in their eyes) she's also trying to crush Luz's neurodiversity. And we all know the truth about Camila from this video, so I'm gonna focus on Alador here. While I actually do agree with the idea that Alador is neurodivergent, I however do NOT agree with the idea that that makes him completely innocent in all the Blight family toxicity going on here! Sure, Odalia is definitely the more 'dom' one in their marriage and as parents, but Alador is still definitely not a good parent, and we shouldn't excuse his bad parenting for his neurodiversity because that just makes neurodivergent (especially ones who are also parents) people look bad in general. People really need to learn how to tell the difference from something that's out of your control because of your disability vs something that's completely a learned behavior and can be changed. (Also, here's a drinking game. Take a shot for every time I say a word that starts with 'neuro'. Or actually, maybe not, because you might actually get alcohol poisoning from this. Just use water instead or something, lmao!)
@@GracefullyAutistic People assuming Luz’s mom is neurotypical, then attacking her for it reeks of ableism and misogyny. ND Moms commonly get diagnosed while their kids get diagnosed. Femme ND people for a long time were overlooked. ND is genetic and Luz had to get her ND from somewhere. There’s a 50/50 shot it came from her mom, and it’s even more likely when you see how well they bond and communicate indicating they think similarly
Honestly I don't think either are abusive. Tho Alador had a bit of a problem neglecting his children but he does care about them. Odalia is definitely abusive tho
as someone who's been emotionally abused by my parents for the last 18 years of my life, I would BEG AND PLEAD to have Camila be my mother. She's the ideal parent, she's what most abused kids wish they had. we want someone who is human and is willing to hold themselves accountable so we, the kids, dont have to be stuck between attempting to hold them accountable and suffer their wrath or sit quietly and wait years and years for it all to be over. I really think that the people accusing Camilla of being abusive are projecting quite a bit. I've seen a lot of the things Camila's done in my own "parents," but the difference is that Camila is doing it out of love or making a genuine mistake and will probably be willing to own up to it and make up for it. my "parents" did it out of malice (an act of control rather than love (and even then, abuse CAN be and often is completely accidental because abusive tendencies are deep-seeded learned behaviors)) and have no desire to apologize or make up for anything they did because they cant fathom themselves being wrong. apologizing to me or my brother about any act they did is too hard because that would mean they would have to grapple with the fact that they've abused their two disabled, ND kids (one of then queer) for their entire lives, frequently doing so through weaponizing my and my brother's minority statuses against us (ie taking my brother's special interest items away because he forgot to do the laundry because part of his struggles with ADHD is memory and time management, and they know all of that. and actively and verbally doubting my transness and otherwise being transphobic in the middle of a serious conversation to get me to shut up when they get too uncomfortable with me challenging them). Real abuse looks almost nothing like the acts of Camila, and it angers me that people would support claims otherwise.
Well damn, your parents suck (When you have the money, and courage, I suggest you tell them everything wrong about them, and if they try to shut you up, slap them right there and now).
I never thought carmila was a bad parent, and neither Luz as a bad daughter. The only thing that keeps them at odds is misheard communication. (To me) Luz is rather easy to guilt trip and in episodes like five and Seven, she doesn't seem to try to say the truth (like how eda was the one who humiliated amity or how she never told amity that once she discovered her diary, she wanted and tried return the diary where it belongs because reading someone else's diary is wrong) and decides to rather take the blame. Carmila is just very sensitive to me. Like if she's crying, it's really hard to make her listen to others (and it is especially true when finding out her child was in a demonic world for 2-3 months). I think If carmila was able to be more emotionally in control and/or if luz could stand up for herself better and try to talk from honsety and actuality, the results (especially in yesterday's lie) could have been very different. Sometimes, I think Luz has a masochistic side which wants to be punished, hurt and yelled at. Maybe it's because all of the others she has hurt in the human realm. Maybe that's why she lied to eda, king and hooty back at the end of yesterday's lie, to be more hurt (like when her friends will find out Luz lied, they'll yell at her and call her a rotten liar; something she secretly wants to be called because this is how she sees herself. I also thought back to when she called herself a "bad boy" I think it was more of a cry of inner pain. When she said bad we (and most likely a lot of her part) thought of bad as a slang for cool or awesome, when in actuality she meant: "I'm a bad person. I hurt people wherever I go. I don't deserve being Loved. I deserve being hurt and loathed, I deserve to be forever alone, I deserve to live in the cold with no warm shelter and food, mom should have thrown me out the moment she first saw me and create another, I don't deserve the friends I have, they deserve better.").
I honestly think you really hit the nail on the head with saying that these fans are projecting too much. Even I couldn't help but project onto Luz a bit at the beginning of this series, even though my issues are more about the school system and my extended family, rather than my mom, my mom is actually a lot more understanding than they are. But I actually think that Yesterday's Lie was a very redeeming episode for Camila, as opposed to the the first and last time we saw her in the very first episode. I definitely disagreed with Camila sending Luz to that summer camp (and kinda still do, because y'know, projecting), but I didn't think that Camila was a bad parent just because of that. But at the same time, it was a bit hard to empathize with Camila at first until Yesterday's Lie, when we see that Luz genuinely loves Luz's creativity, but was very concerned for her future wellbeing, like any normal parent would be.
A good protagonist is someone who grows, changes & learn from their mistakes. Not characters who are 100% in the right so you can feel comfortable with them.
THANK YOU!!!! I’ve been saying this for the longest. Camila is just a mom in an uncertain situation. Owl house choosing to show what it actually would be like to see a parent react to their kids going on a dangerous adventure. She’s not infallible either. She could’ve talked to Luz first to tell her that she’s making uncomfortable and put their lives in danger. They made her so well rounded. It’s amazing how people want to box her in as some terrible parent.
First, I like the new intro! Second, I’m not even an Owl House fan, but you did a very good job analyzing Camila’s character and her role as a single parent to a neurodivergent child. She loves Luz, but that doesn’t mean she’s going to condone everything her daughter does. A good parent has to set boundaries, and just because their kid is neurodivergent doesn’t mean they can excuse poor behavior. And I agree, we need to stop “othering” parents in animation. I want more supportive, active parents in kids shows, dang it!
There might have been threats of legal action that Luz wasn’t aware of. Students were injured by the snakes that Luz snuck into the school, she brought fireworks to school, in Connecticut it’s illegal for someone as young as Luz to purchase fireworks, so she either illegally purchased them or got her mom to buy them under false pretenses and planned to set them off. If Luz was any other character besides the protagonist people would be jumping on her for her reckless behavior as she could have hurt the protagonist, one of their friends or someone we like.
Yeah it's quite possible that Camila was given the option by the principal and the police to either send Luz to the pseudo-bootcamp that had been brought up beforehand or to face a pretty severe lawsuit.
@@LilyArtemis14 Take third option: Unleash the Ark of the Covenant to turn the principal into goop and convert Gravesfield into a palace! Then resurrect Roger Williams and make him the new principal. No longer will Boston be the metropolitan hub of New England but PROVIDENCE!
Camelia asking if she was being a bad parent is such an important point. I’ve seen parents who have been abusive, and they’d never ask that question. They always have to be right. If their kid ever confronted them or asked them to be abusive, like you touched on, the parent would use tactics like shifting the blame onto the kid, gaslighting them into thinking there is no problem, etc. Self aware parents are an underrated gift
even if we interpret camila's words as unintentional guilt tripping, it's kinda crazy that we expect perents to say perfectly appropriate thungs in situations this wild(even the demon realm out of the equasion). in extream emotional states we tend to say kinda abusive things, especially when defending ourselfs, which isn't good but nobody can keep a perfrct record especially perents. it's good that we as a society talk about abusive perenting but I think we sorta got to the point where we blame perents for having emotions.
I think the last scene in Yesterday's Lie is so shocking and upsetting because Camila had been a perfect patient mom throughout the whole episode up until that point, where she breaks down and reveals to both Luz and the viewers that she's not handling the news as well as she seemed. [Not a bad thing] A lot of us project ourselves onto Luz while watching the show, because most of us are weirdos/neurodivergent/queer or all three, and most of us fear what our parents will do if we told them how we really feel or who we are. It was very easy for us to feel like we're in Luz's shoes when she told her mom the truth, and her initial easy acceptance in helping Vee and letting her stay was a big relief. Camila breaking down later on felt like the opposite of that, as the initial response made us put our guards down, and made the exchange even more painful [and made me have flashbacks to when I personally came out to my mom]. I'm not saying Camila was a bad mom, she did the best in the situation she was unfairly placed in, but it's also fair for Luz's feelings to have been hurt by her mom's behavior/reaction, however understandable. Her mom made her feel like everything was fine and then revealed everything was _not_ fine, and having something that brings you joy and/or makes your happy bring someone else pain through a misunderstanding is even more painful, especially since you don't have time to explain. You can't control/help how you feel, and how you're feeling isn't wrong. I think that should be the core message of that scene. Camila isn't wrong to feel this way, and neither is Luz. Camila can't help feeling scared, and Luz can't control feeling happier in the Boiling Isles, it's just something they need to talk about. And the audience can't help projecting onto Luz, the audience can't control feeling betrayed by Camila's changed reaction, and they're not wrong for feeling that way either. As long as we're aware of what feelings and experiences we're projecting onto this _very_ different situation, this is a very valuable learning opportunity.
I feel like those who call Camila a bad mom either have AMAZING moms or are too young/inexperienced to understand the difference. Is it wrong for a mother to want her daughter to stay with her, instead of letting her be where she can thrive the most? Yes, probably. So WHAT?! People make mistakes, all parents do. She will learn and support her daughter once she understands.
The place where she can thrive is also full of danger and things that can kill her, she was very lucky to have met Eda and King, any parent would freak out in that situation.
Seriously, take Subaru from Re:Zero for example, the place where he can be more useful is the place that has killed him more times than any common man would be able to stand (which proves just how strong he is, mentally) even being able to ressurrect, if his parents knew what he went through, they would want him to stay where is safe, same with Camilla, she wants her daughter to stay where it is safe, that is not even taking into account that her daughter just disappeared one day without a trace and only now came back, this is the worst fear a parent can go through.
Besides, do we, the audience, know how much Luz told her? As in, did she told her about her second mom Eda? Or her girlfriend Amity? Or her friends King, Willow, or Gus?
@@juanrisa945 I assume she told her mother about Eda, Amity and her friends, i doubt she told her Amity is her girlfriend, or that Eda has a curse that turns her into an Owl Demon, or that King is a demon.
Interestingly enough, I NEVER saw Camilla as an abusive mom. I just saw her as a mom who wanted her daughter to be herself while also not putting others into harmful or uncomfortable situations. I understood where both parties were coming from. And I have the "My parents are being so unfair" POV when in reality my parents (or at least my bio dad and stepmom) have shown many times they just want what's best for me. Or at least that's what I've come to understand. If anything, I've tended to be the one being potentially abusive/toxic towards my parents to some degree (even if it's not true, it feels that way)
The theme of Season 2 is the relationship we have with our parents. The Blights and Belos are how Luz perceives her mother when in reality she's a lot closer to Eda's mother someone who tries their best and means well but doesnt fully understand their child. Yesterday's Lie is one of the best episodes by showing that had Luz stayed, she would've had fun at camp and her mother would always love her. Marcy from Amphibia is similar to Luz. Both have narrow interest and can only thrive in a fantasy world. However, Amphibia explores that Marcy's interests aren't the problem so much as what they compell her to do to. Additionally, it really does into the idea that traveling into your ultimate fantasy isn't a healthy solution .
You’ve got to wonder how much of Camila’s feelings is about guilt. Single mother with no partner in the picture (aside from the actual photo with the obscured face the FMA fan in me is convinced will be important later) and a working single mother at that. Who knows how much of Luz’s intense fantasy interest came from time spent by herself while her mother was working, watching anime and reading The Good Witch Azura instead of trying to make friends with her peers in a way they’d be receptive to. In the opening scene Camila is wearing surgical scrubs, implying she was called at work and considering how many times Luz had been at the principal’s office, how many times has that happened? I reckon Camila has often asked herself is there’s a way she can be a better mother, to try help Luz in a way she can see herself how Camila sees her.
Thank you!!! I've seen way too many people in the comment sections of owl-house related videos claiming Camila to be abusive when I knew for sure that wasn't the case. Sure, the camp may have been seen as too harsh as well as the promise she had Luz make in the end of "Yesterday's Lie", but this video helped to point out the context of this particular situation. I don't think I could have explained it better myself! Great video!
People also need to realize that that within the context of it being a children's show, the name/branding of the camp was likely exaggerated to be funny/make Luz's actions look more justified to the viewer. Those types of summer camps exist, and I've been to one as a child with ASD who didn't have any friends/was in a similar situation to Luz at her age. They aren't bad places, and I was given the option to leave if I didn't like it. And guess what? It helped me develop social skills that I lacked and wasn't developing naturally on my own. Literally all it is is a normal camp with fun camp activities that you can choose/choose not to interact with. I sat out whenever I didn't feel comfortable, and I was never yelled at. Maybe other people have had different experience's, but we can tell directly from Vee that the camp was similar to the one that I went to. Like literally I got to eat whatever I wanted, ride horses and make whatever out of arts and crafts materials. It was NOT a case of abuse. A lot of people see a parent who makes a mistake or makes a decision that they don't automatically agree with, and they're too quick to label that parent as abusive. It's frustrating, to the point of me being pretty positive that a lot of folks don't actually know what abuse LOOKS like if they think Camila is abusive.
@@ToonRuinsOfficial Thank you for sharing your experience. I have never been to a camp of any kind, so I didn't really know how it works besides from what's in the media. Also, I've been noticed by a youtuber I like! Awesome!
I had to pause, at 11:39 to add something before I forgot. We see that camp was not as bad as it was made out to be, and I feel like Liz could have made a lot off friends there. When Vee went to camp in Luz’s stead we see that there were plenty of “weird” kids just like her that she was able to make friends with. We also see that the kids still or themselves. The camp was intended to tone down a person behavior, to have a balance between creatively and being aware/ mind/ careful of your surrounding and the people in it.
as someone who was actually abused as a child. i have to agree with everything you have said here. i would love to have had a mother as understanding and loving as camilla
Nice to know there’s people who know the difference between “abusive and closed off to different things” and “well-meaning and understanding but still flawed”.
This is such a good read on Camilla and Luz's relationship. Something Yesterday's Lie did a really good job at was establishing a connection between Luz's kindness and compassion with Camilla's parenting. Luz has changed for the better on the isles but the reason she reached out and helped so many people was because she looks up to her mom so much. I'm also glad you mentioned that Luz never got to explain the good parts of the isles because of the situation Vee was in, which as you really nicely lay out is really important for understanding both characters in the final scene. One really interesting thing you brought up in the video was the fandom space tendency to avoid growth based mindsets, which really hit the nail on the head with what I've been witnessing over the past few years. It's sad to see it in space surrounding The Owl House, because one of my favorite aspect of the show IS the growth the main characters go through over the course of it. It's why, despite it not being my favorite episode, the ending scene of "Witches Before Wizards" really struck home for me. Luz was desperate for a change in her life, and while she was a destructive child we see a lot of signs that life on earth (outside of her relationship with Camilla) was not kind to her. But over the first two episodes she faces very similar problems on the isles as back home, to the point where after the run in with the shapeshifter she resolves to go back home. Eda taking her up to show her the isles as a beautiful mess and telling her that she can't wait for change, that she must be the one who chooses to change is the start to one of my favorite character arcs in media. I hope by the end of the series more of the younger fans are able to pic up on this message, but for now I'll just be happy waiting for Camilla and Luz to get their chance to sit down and really talk. Fantastic video, you brought a deep insight to the life of a neurodivergent child and the relationship to their family and laid it out in such a clear way to your audience. This will be a good resource if I'm ever having a discussion with someone about Camilla as a character. I hadn't seen any of your work before but I'm excited to see what coming next and will have a good time going through your backlog of videos in the mean time.
I think Marcy from Amphibia is a good comparison to Luz. Someone who enjoys fantasy so much she doesn’t seem to operate in the real world (Anne had to call out dangers to her for her to evade or stop before) and ends up in a fantasy land seemingly tailor-made for them to thrive in. Just as Luz decided to stay in the Boiling Isles to avoid the reality check summer camp, Marcy couldn’t face being separated from her friends (her father had a job transfer) and was the whole reason the trio of herself, Anne and Sasha were scattered across Amphibia. Like how Luz learned the demon realm didn’t follow the fantasy conventions she idealised (the second episode deconstructing the chosen one quest by having Luz initially buy into it completely, cute animals and hunky brooding hero and all) , Marcy herself faced a horrible truth about the characters she saw as allies which undermined her perception of Newtopia and King Andrias.
Yep, I can definitely see kids arguing this without looking at the bigger picture with some of them probably projecting their own issues with their parents onto these characters. Low key been there, though I never went around calling fictional characters horrible people because of it. I believe you‘re definitely onto something when you point out that this part of the community is also extremely anti-change and anti-redemption. When you‘re a kid *(especially* when you’re a young teen), you sometimes just want to be mad and to be validated in feeling this way. The idea that solutions can be found and that people can make amends and change for the better is kind of beyond you because at that age, change is just something that kind of happens to you and the kids around you, oftentimes instigated by the adults in your life. In your mind, nobody changes because they truly want to. This is especially true when you‘re a weird kid who is often pressured into being „normal“, but you see it in other people too. Classic example: Your bullies only apologize to you when an adult makes them, you know they don’t actually mean it and will be back to picking on you the next day. So when people, especially parental figures (even fictional ones like Camilla), are saying that one should seek to adjust certain behaviors because they aren’t helping or actually harmful, I absolutely understand how some kids get defensive thinking that the show is siding with the kind of people who mock them for being different and that this is some kind of attack on their individuality, even in situations where the criticism that is being given is genuinely warranted. Doesn’t help when their real parents aren’t supportive and try to change who they are because that is a thing that actually happens. To them, change isn’t something you choose for your own good, it’s a pressure to resist. Adjusting in any way would be letting the bullies win. A big part of growing up is learning to tell which criticisms you can apply to yourself to become a better person and which ones are unreasonable and to be discarded. This isn’t always easy, but mastering this plays a big part in feeling better about yourself overall.
Seriously what were some people expecting? "Yes my 14 years old daughter, stay in the demon realm where i can't even talk to you" forget about wanting to protect Luz, just wanting to be with your kid is a reasonable enough reason for her to not be happy about it. And it's crazy that the Blights don't get this much hate, tho i'm guessing most of the people pushing the "Camila bad" thing, are kids themselves, and generally would relate more to frustrations with a parent like Camila than the Blights, so whatever, kids are kids.
Through the lense of neuro divergence Luz’s behaviour makes so much sense and it makes me 1. Appreciate her writing more and 2. Understand her actions so much more I love this show even more now oh my gosh like the boiling Îles itself is a metaphor for being different and it’s not just “being quirky” which is what I previously thought which made it seem so peachy to me but the differences in our brains, gosh this show is brilliant
The fact that this has to be a title of a video is very upsetting. Camila is a mom like any other or even better, with flaws, but is always trying her best for Luz.
Wonder how much this would be updated/changed given the finale of the Owl House. Since we saw in Thanks to Them how the camp wasn't even Camila's idea.
This was needed so much... People need to understand that actions have consequences and that Luz's behavior at the beginning was dangerous, not only weird. The saddest thing is that even the show has shown it that many many times by ironically making Luz more mature and grounded now that she actually faced the reality of her fantasy world. This chapter with Vee and Camila is the logical next step in that arc. Regarding the "othering of parents", another show that I think avoids this trope is Hilda. It might look like it's going in that direction in the beginning, but both the public and Hilda herself end up understanding so much of Hilda's mom's behavior and decisions as the show goes along.
After finding out that they live in Connecticut I did some digging into their fireworks laws. They are very much illegal without a license and while sparklers aren't considered fireworks, Luz is too young to buy even those. Now I question how she even got them. The principal would of had to of covered for her, even after the snake bit him, and Camila might of been forced to send Luz to camp as a compromise at that point or else Luz would of been punished by the state.
After season 3 happened, and knowing the real reason behind the dad’s absence, this video hits different (in a good way of course!) I’m sure others have already mentioned, but the death of Manny was also for sure weighing on them both alongside all this. There’s also the added context of Luz being bullied (which was implied by Luz’s “look for exist points” and her lines in Knockin on Hooty’s Door.)
I think you're being to generous to the fandom. I little something I've observed in fandoms is that the same people who call Camila abusive, are the same ones who call Luz a bad protagonist and that Amity should have been the main character. They are the same ones that's believe all of Simon's crimes in Infinity Train were all Grace's fault. When it comes to fandoms, people of colour are always seen in the worst possible light and white people often have all of their crime excused. The same fans who claim Camila is an abusive parent will also try to defend Alador Blight from having done anything wrong. This is not a coincidence, it's a pattern.
THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE. White fans (whether consciously or otherwise) despise brown characters and it’s annoying as hell. Like you could make an entire list of these characters.
YOURE RIGHT, YOURE SO RIGHT. The same people who call Camilla abusive call Odalia, Alador and Belos "Dilfs"/"Milfs". I remember how fucking pissed I was when people said Amity shouldve been the protag, POC are always bitched on in fandoms and nobody seems to care
You're correct, but as a white person, it didn't feel appropriate for me to speak on that issue and on the behalf of others. I only spoke on the technical terms of abuse (specifically parental abuse) since I'm speaking from experience in that department. If you're looking for somebody who has covered this, Harriyanna Hook made a video about TOH fandom's issue with racism. Or just fandom spaces in general, honestly (she also has a lot of good videos on Miraculous Ladybug that I would recommend). She has a lot of really insightful analysis, and as a Black woman, covers it better than I ever could.
A parent who takes responsibility for their child’s actions to make sure they’re raised well enough to not harm anyone yet also wants their own kid to never be ashamed of who they are as a person no matter how weird they may seem to the outside world… IS A BAD PARENT?! If anything that’s the complete OPPOSITE of a bad parent! That’s what every guardian should be! I would kill to have parents like this! EDIT: After finishing the entire show, SHE IS THE BEST PARENT! She was willing to listen and understand Luz no matter how much Luz legit screwed up! She’s what I would aspire to be if I were to be a parent! She never even wanted to send her to that camp in the first place.
I think the reason why people said guilt-tripping was for her saying "You hated living with me that much?" Which is like, I get why; but also I think people aren't getting it. Camila didn't want to guilt trip Luz, she was just losing it. In probably less than an hour she learned that the demons and magic are realm, her daughter has been living in another dimension for weeks and has no idea how to come back. She even says that much herself, how she cannot hold it together; she didn't mean to make Luz feel guilty, she was just afraid and hurt. And while I don't like the idea of kids needing to comfort their parents, I cannot say she is a bad parent for it; is an extreme situation which of course she doesn't know how to handle. Doing what she did doesn't make her abusive, it makes her human.
"Camila is not abusive" and "Luz is not a bad kid". I agree with you. I'm grateful for the show because it illustrates that even the best of intentions can be taken hard and people might need a bit of help with developing self-awareness, not to the point of stifling themselves, but so they can get their intentions across, and also realize that people can and will take things the way they want regardless of what they do, and they're entitled to that. It's also quite difficult for Neuridivergents because they are the minority, and when they can speak and generally function, people try to explain away their neurotype and symptoms as "imaginary".
Considering Emperor Belos' existence, the fact that Owl House Twitter would call Camila abusive makes me scared about how they would view Belos, a man that attempted genocide, abused his nephew Hunter, and ruled the Boiling Isles and the Emperor's coven with an iron fist.
It’s annoys me when kids think that just because their parents aren’t being fair, they call it abuse. Abuse leave lasting trauma whether u are aware of it or not.
It might be a good idea to make either an updated version of or alternatively a follow up for this video to account for what was revealed following its release, namely the three specials I say this because your prediction to how Camila will react once Luz returns to her and Camila sees how well Luz has been doing since coming to the Demon Realm was proven right Your conclusion about the camp, while correct, is also somewhat incomplete because arguably the biggest thing the weird kids got from it was a healthy support system; the thing Luz, Camila, Eda, Amity, Hunter, Willow, Vee, etc arguably needed most
Even before watching this video, when I saw this episode for the first time I was able to see things in Camila prospective. I felt so bad for her. Her child was basically trapped in a fantasy world where someone could easily kill her if she wasn’t careful.
So many things in this video that I'll be quoting, not about The Owl House, but about life in general. The stuff about being 'anti self improvement' and how being neurodivergent doesn't make us incapable of learning and trying to be good to the people around us. I've talked to so many people who call it bigotry or abuse if I say that I had to learn how to communicate without making people uncomfortable, when to pause so other people could talk or how to tell when I was freaking people out. People who've said I was abused because my parents made me learn coping skills to combat my learning difficulties, and say that I'm perpetuating that abuse when I ask them to consider the effect they have on the people around them. Like you said, people who use their disabilities as scapegoats. You word a lot of things really well here, so they sound informative and caring rather than aggressive and bigoted. I hope I can get my points across better using this video to inform the way I structure my arguments.
yes yes yes! really hate how everything is exaggerated in fandom spaces (it happened when avatar made a resurgence on twitter :/) …at the end of the day it makes for more entertaining show when characters make mistakes!!!
Camila isn't a bad mother. She's not perfect either, she's a single mother trying her best. Both her and Luz really do love each other; however, they have terrible communication. Luz made poor choice of words that made her mother upset, scared and feeling guilty. Vee misunderstood Luz and Camila and Vee needs to hear Luz and Camila's side before judging.
At this point, I'm pretty certain that anyone who still thinks that Camila's a bad parent is either racist or stubbern. Ideally the laughter. I got into an argument with a fanfic writer about a month ago over their interpretation of Camila (If you know who I'm talking about, then sorry). And almost all of their arguments either didn't hold water or were disproven by the show itself. Some notable ones where: "Sending her to Reality Check camp never was or will be justified" (Camp was, at worst, boring at times. Going by Vee and her friends) "Neither was treating Luz's enjoyment of fantasy as a whole as something to be fixed" (Camila never treated her interests this way.) "And she was perfectly happy when her daughter came back completely different." (She wasn't. Camila actively showed concern when Vee started acting different compared to Luz) So yeah. My guess for what happened? People built up this negative interpretation of Camila in their head over season 1 and the Hiatus. And when the show finally came back and just proved these people wrong. They refused to change their interpretations for one reason or another.
When I first read the title of the video, my first thought was “People think she is a bad mom? Was her character in question?!” I was genuinely surprised to hear that anyone thought Camilla was a bad mom. After watching the video and the points you brought up, I can understand why by people thought the way they did but a lot of those people seemed to have missed the full context of situation. And to help Luz feel better about going to camp, Camilla was willing to blow off work and drive Luz there herself. She was gonna make it a small day trip for them and spend some time together before Luz is away for the summer. A truly abusive parent would not care enough to do that.
I get what you mean and I agree, Camilla isn't an abusive or bad mom, just one that was at her ropes end and desperate with a wild child. However you are wrong about one thing. Some toxic parents are willing to take days of work and make day trips to help their nervous children for big changes such as going to a sleep away camp for the first time or in my case college. Yes they may love their children, but they have serious toxic behaviors they either ignore or are not aware of and they won't change. I am not saying Camilla is like this because she's not. But their are some parents that will do things to help their children but they still are toxic.
It's astonishing people on Twitter think Camila Noceda is on the same level as Philip, talk about false equivalence, if Camila was as bad as Belos, she would not have accepted Vee into her home, nor the other witches at the end of "King's Tide". Besides, Luz was quite a handful, and for a single mother would been more challenging, heck, Luz was a challenge for Eda, as we see her getting into trouble out of immaturity, and pursuing fantasy fulfilment, by the way, Luz got off easy, whether she went to summer camp or the Boiling Isles, Luz could have been arrested and sent to juvenile, for bringing snakes to school that assaulted pupils and the principle, and bringing fireworks to school, a judge would have sentenced Luz to the camp anyway.
Nice in depth, compassionate analysis! Although, I'm not sure Infinity Train (as you implied) paints the parents in the wrong in the end either, at least in Book 1. Yes, we clearly see Tulip is being hurt by her parents' divorce, which prompts her to run away and get on the train. But we know from the beginning that it was a misunderstanding rather than a malicious act that prompted Tulip to run away (her father was unable to take her to camp and her mother had to work), and in Tulip's memory tape in "The Cat's Car", Tulip starts to recognize that her perception of the divorce wasn't accurate, and it becomes a big crux for her character development (and stops her from becoming trapped in her memories for forever) She realizes the divorce didn't come out of nowhere like she thought - she was in denial, actively changing her memories to seem happier than they actually were. And she realizes the divorce wasn't something done *to* her - it just sort of happened. Her parents tried to tell her that they had tried, that she wasn't at fault, and asked if she was okay. But like Luz, Tulip said "I understand" without really understanding. Tulip deflected and turned bitter instead of hearing her parents out or communicating her feelings of fear and sadness. And in reflecting on what really happened versus what she thought happened, Tulip comes to understand her parents better and stops seeing them as the evil life-ruiners that she ran away from.
Oh, it definitely doesn't. Infinity Train is another show that I think does a wonderful job with that, I just used it as an example since Tulip thinks similarly to the type of folks I was referring to. Her entire arc was about getting compassion for other people besides herself, namely adults. I just like using Infinity Train clips whenever I can. :)
A great example of gaslighting is actually in infinity train book 2 episode 8: the wasteland, where the Flec cop tries to convince Lake that all of her actions are being controlled by the train for the sole purpose of helping Tulip and Jessie, saying that she doesn’t have free will and can never be a real person. Here we have the abuser making the victim question their own reality, making them feel bad for being a sliver, and trying to convince them that they aren’t in control of their own destiny and actions
I hope this can also apply to Anne's mom she loves her daughter so much and she just wants her to become an actor famous or a doctor bescase she only wants the best for her and yes she did punish her when she took the blame for her friends and she wanted her to cut ties with her friends they were doing crimes and she did get mad at her for keeping secrets but anne is in a bad place also the fans are really hating on her for not finding a portal or doing something she just reverted back the way she was before to cope with her friends possible death
@@seineevee Ok maybe her mother but not Mr Boonchuy. He just tries to get through the day without anything bad happening. Not to mention he literally thanked the plantars for keeping Anne safe in one episode
Spectacular video as per usual. I think a lot of people, myself included, forgot the full context of the pilot episode by the time "Yesterday's Lie" premiered. We definitely got it from Luz's perspective, where the camp seemed like an overreaction to just her quirky personality. But the signs were there that Luz had behavioral problems that went beyond like YA novels and anime, so her mom was for sure in a tough spot.
After the series I full understand the context of Luz’s issues she never needed to change who she is like myself after I got a job I never needed to change who I am as a person and still keep my interests and I learned about respecting peoples boundaries at an early age so I guess I can say I was lucky
No wonder why I relate so much to Luz. I have ADHD on top of having cerebral palsy, anxiety, and persistent depressive disorder. I also possibly have autism spectrum disorder, and am pursuing getting a diagnosis.
I forgot luz had legit hurt and endangered kids. And Was extremely public about weird shite. While camps are something that can work sometimes, they should be the absolute LAST option taken ever. However, the fault in the mother figure's mainly that she doesn't understand luz's lack of understanding, and treats it as something it is very much not. Its not nessecarily her being bad but its a complete lack of understanding of whats wrong, and addressing it in a very different manner because of it. I do agree now she's not a bad mother. She just lacks in context from experience or simply misunderstanding people themselves.
With the release of "Thanks to Them", Camila's POV is explored in detail and makes all her previous actions and emotions much more justified and comprehensible. She clearly stands out as a true motherhood example, next to Eda and her own mother Gwen, and totally opposed to Odalia Blight and Belos
I am neurodivergent, and I always thought everyone was against me for that. But this helped me understand that it's just that everyone sees my intentions differently. this also has helped me to learn that I seriously NEED to balance fantasy and reality, I really struggle with that. >:/ in fact, I was watching this when I needed to do something important
You know what really ticks me off? The fandom saying Luz has this Owl family and junk while completely ignoring/demonizing Camila, who did absolutely nothing wrong. This mother and daughter better be in each other's lives or I will be so mad and disappointed.
@@threebeforetwo Considering what Luz had done, it’s clear she’s not entirely in the right and Camila has legitimate concerns, even when the episode doesn’t do a lot with this because Luz is the protagonist and identification figure once the show moves to the Boiling Isles. The conversion therapy nature of the camp was always an informed aspect and ultimately revealed to be useless at having this effect. If anything it brought together people with like interests and a Basalisk with limited knowledge of Earth was able to make friends there.
I don't think I've seen anything about the new intro. But I'll just say it, it's amazing. I love the explorer vibe and when you character used the magnifying glass and their face changed to reference the old design ✨😫. I love it, I love it all!!
I read the title and the first thing I thought was "what?" How could anyone think this woman is a bad mother? She's a person who is clearly trying to make the best of a stressful situation while trying to make sure her daughter grows into a healthy, well-adjusted adult. How is that wrong?
Camilla reminds me of my own mom (it doesnt help that they have the same job lol) and if I have to say so myself. Both my mom and camilla are good moms. Flawed yes, makes mistakes yes but she does her best and that's what counts right? In the show I'm assuming that Luz's adhd hasn't been diagnosed yet (she's doing great btw) and it makes sense that camilla follows the school's advice, in yesterday's lie we can figure that the camp wasn't as bad as luz probably made it out to be ,based on vee's friends. Also she's honest in how she feels and she's supportive. As someone who had an abusive dad and only recently hot diagnosed with autism. Camilla deserves a lot more love. I am willing to accept when people say she's not the best of the best because she's not. But she's a decent mom, if not good and I will gladly bet money on the fact that if camilla learns more about the boiling isles that she will allow luz to stay there (granted maybe like a one week here one week there thing or just switching)
Toon Ruins you probably are not going to read this but I just want to say that this was an amazing video because you said everything that needed to be said. It's annoying how so many people analyze the show and somehow always miss it. More people need to acknowledge that Luz was making the kids uncomfortable regardless of intentions and it ticks me how many people either just water down the fact that Luz was scaring and hurting people or flat-out say the kids were bullying her. That just makes no sense and it's a fake narrative just as much as saying Camilla is a bad mom. It's almost all just projection but it is ridiculous.
Update: S3E1 Spoilers Camila(and her husband and Luz) all seem to be neurodivergent, it just happened that Camila learned to mask better(from my reading ofher charachter what with the you were bullied too, defending her kids weirdness with "wolves are great parents" againts parents comments which is oddly specific and feels like a neurodiv thing to say ngl?? and her what seems to be special interest in in-universe Star Trek), but she didn't try to "normalize" Luz at all. If anything from what we see, she was actively defending her and KNEW that she was "weird" and it was an ok thing to be. And from what we see she was basically guilt tripped into sending luz to normalization camp by the principal. Camila's husband seems to have been neurodiv(or atleast i reckon) through how he was weird too.
Well fun fact about snake skin I did my research it’s actually unhygienic to pick it up as you should never pick it up with your bare hands as it contains bacteria that can lead to infection
14:15 I wanna be clear here that I do think that Camila is a good mom trying her best. However, while I don’t think this was her intention, this line seems to have come across to Luz as “change yourself and abandon your interests so that you can make friends”. Again, that’s definitely not what she intended, but she didn’t think her words through and hurt her daughter pretty deeply without realizing
Seriously? Do people really think Luz's mum is abusive? This is normal behaviour - my mum gets worried when I just go on my typical walks. That's what mums do; it's their job to worry.
Amazing analysis! Yesterday's lie is on my top favorite toh episodes of all time mostly because of how it deals with the consequences of Luz's decision from the first episode and how it shows a really nuanced point of view for the decisions of all three characters involved in this (yes im including vee here). They all had good intentions, they didn't mean any harm, but it still happened in some way or another. But they're not bad people for doing that, they messed up, and all seem genuinely regretful of what it brought, even if it also brought a lot of positives for Luz and Vee. Even before season 2 i was already 10000% sure Camila was a great mom and nothing from S2 changed that, it only strengthned It. I'm an ADHD teen a few years older than Luz and yeah, everything you said is on point. She's allowed room to grow but doesn't excuse all her actions, and she's still a good kid, who just needed to learn more about boundaries and being considerate, which she has. There's another great video in defense of Camila who brought a lot of similar points to yours but i still highly reccomend. Its called "in defense of Camila Noceda", by thethirdbill
I was surprised to hear that people call her a bad parent when I was tearing up because she thought Luz running away was her fault as a mother & that she was really scared for Luz 😭😭😭
I love that you made this, I know it’s not the same, but I have Social Anxiety and it’s to a point where it effects my everyday life and my mother, being the amazing person that she is, tries her best to help me, even when it’s reminding me that it’s not as big of a deal as it is in my head. Again, thank you
Given what little information Luz had on the camp (ESPECIALLY FROM THE BROCHURE), I can honestly understand why Luz didn't want to go there and choose to stay in the Boiling Isles instead. She stayed in a place where she could be herself and thrive instead of a place where she thought she would have to change who she is in order to fit in. And even then, I have a problem believing that Luz wanted to run away and just throw away her previous life. She stumbled upon the portal to the Boiling Isles BY SHEER CHANCE, and had full access to the portal throughout Season 1 until she was forced to destroy it in the season finale. So Luz was likely planning to use the portal to return home once the camp session ended in order to avoid suspicion and/or concern from her mother, maybe even use the portal to make short, temporary visits to the Boiling Isles whenever she got the opportunity. And after the portal was destroyed, Luz spent all of Season 2 trying to make a portal of her own in order to return home to her mother. She even expresses concern that her mother is probably worried sick about her as camp ended and she hasn't returned home yet in a previous episode. Luz even says "Goodbye, Mom" in Spanish right before she destroyed the portal, as she knows it was her only way home. Luz didn't want to run away, throw away her old life, or abandon her mother, ESPECIALLY NOT abandon her mother, which is why it kinda rubbed me the wrong way when Vee accused her of doing that.
I have adhd and I absolutely love how it's handled in TOH. I tho for whatever reason am extremely good at reading social cues (I hope I'm right lol) and therefore am also super good in befriending new ppl and environnements. I even used to be quite popular. Now I do have some struggles with social cues, I rarely get sarcasm and often don't know of I'm to clingy to some ppl. Luz is becoming even the same in the demon realm! She started to be more aware of her actions and now had friends and through her kindness and loving way she managed to befriend so many ppl :)
I wish i had a mom like Camila I love her i made the mistake of hating on Camila when she sent Luz away but after everything she really proved herself in yesterday's lie and thanks to them
Even back before all the context we have from season 3 that has people backpedaling on all the Camila slander they put out…I cannot see how she would ever come off as “abusive” let alone bad. All the people calling her a bad parent are clearly coming in with their own baggage and/or prejudice because those same people would defend Alador to the death. Even not knowing everything about Camila’s side of events: Camila just wanted to help her daughter make connections and not endanger people. She LOVED Luz’s creativity and said so in the first episode! She just wanted her to tone down the antics that were dangerous and also wanted her to be able to have friends. Those were her biggest concerns and they were very much in Luz’s best interest. Then she learns her daughter is trapped in “the demon realm” with little context or time (Luz briefs her off screen but it’s still undeniably scary for a parent to learn how dangerous a place their kid has been in for months). She’d be a bad mother if she WASNT concerned or visibly scared for her child’s life. She didn’t know about the entire civilization and the extent of the safety Luz had, and the Boiling Isles is undeniably dangerous for a human: Luz has had MANY close deaths between the fantastical adventures she has been on. If she wasn’t a main character, she might not have made it, tbh. It’s not like Camila’s worries we’re unfounded given what little explanation time they had. Of course she’d want her daughter to come home asap and never go back to presumably a “hell” world. She’d never heard of another realm up until this point. She honestly handled that information very well all things considered. The audience is coming at her with all the knowledge that Camila DOESNT have. They don’t realize she has no groundwork and they don’t even try to empathize with that. She doesn’t have the context and if we’d only known things from Camila’s POV and then see Luz one day on the phone and she drops all that on Camila- we’d understandably be all “wtf!! That’s so dangerous what??” People genuinely need to remember that when we see things as the audience, that does not mean that every character knows what we do. You have to think about it from the perspective of that character , but people already are against her, making ideas up of her in their minds and warping their memory of what she actually said to defend Luz (whom they may relate to). But Luz was not completely in the right to run away like she did. Vee literally gives us that perspective too early on in the episode that gives Luz that revelation and makes the last scene with Camila all the harder on her.
As a neurodivergent kid who struggles with boundaries I really understand Luz's perspective. So when Vee called her out it reminded me that yes I am not always a good person and my mom does not always deserve the way I treat her. But my mom is much more toxic than Camila so its a bit different but I understand not all my mom's bad actions are meant to be harmful.
As someone who didn't want to hate Camila (and never did), initially I saw the abuse connection when I first saw the pilot. The camp flier reminded me of the military boot camp Timmy Turner's actually abusive parents made him go to in fairly odd parents. Especially also reminded me of the reformatory school that (Perry's Dream version of) Candace sent Phineas and Ferb to go to to get rid of their imaginations. However anything past that episode doesnt have any possible inference to come to the conclusion that she's actually abusive. Its possible the camp ITSELF could have been abusive but not Camila herself and she just made a miscalculation. I know in your vid you say Vee making and staying friends with people from camp proves it was actually a good camp after all but I believe you can still make good friends out of s bad situation. Regardless i dont see how anyone could STILL see Camila as abusive in the season 2 finale. She wins the best parent award by a mile. She complimented how strong Vee is after finding out who she is and she's not only not her kid but is a demon . You made such good points about her being a mom who made a mistake rather than actually being malicious in any way. In conclusion: We love you Camila Noceda ! 💖
In my opinion, most of these people see Luz mother as an obstacle to lumity, so they hate her. They say that Camila is a bad mother only as an excuse for the needless hatred they feel for her.
Luz wasn't old enough to buy those fireworks herself, the legal age to be able buy fireworks in Connecticut is 16 while Luz was 14 at that point in time. So yeah illegal fireworks purchase.
I haven’t watched the video yet, and I’m sure you’ll go over some great points about Camila’s character, but I just want to say from the title, that I’ve never seen or considered her to be a bad mom, not even Luz does in the show, she constantly wishes to go back to her and loves her, she just wanted to live a fantasy, but if she truly didn’t love her or thought she was a bad mom, she’d never want to go back. And especially after “Yesterday’s lie” I now truly appreciate her and the love and care she has for Luz.
Camila isn’t a bad mom or a perfect mom. She’s a realistic take on what parenting can be like. I’m not a parent but at the age I’m at now, I understand parenting is complex and not always black and white.
As she said in the video, I think we have grown up watching media for kids and teens in which the parents are non-existent or are played up to be fools to make the kids smarter and more relatable on a marketing standpoint so now we can't tell which is abuse and which is just flawed but genuine love
Thank you
The only things in life that is black and white is a painting made only with both colors
Yea it’s a whole rainbow of confusion from what I understand
@@juanrisa945 or a zebra
I can honestly see Camila’s choices being rightful and good-willed. She really does care for Luz, but she wasn’t sure about how Luz felt. She did what she could to try to help her out the best she can. That last scene in Yesterday’s Lie was really sad and heartbreaking to see. I hope she’ll understand and perhaps help Luz out in the future fight against Belos
And provide enough help for Vee.
That last scene just didn't sit right with me hopefully she gets a few more episodes before the finale
yeah camilla needs to understand luz’s relationship with amity, eda, king, hunter, willow and gus sooooo
Camila gonna come in clutch with La Chancla!
@@Saet-ey Soooo... what's stopping Luz from making friends and maybe finding a love interest back on Earth?
I’m betting on Camila letting Luz stay once she finds out just what the Boiling Isles is and the people she’s met there are like. Considering that Luz just mentioned the Demon Realm and nobody else in Yesterday’s Lie, it’s probably safe to assume that Camila thinks Luz is stuck in a form of hell with no way back. Any parent would freak out in that scenario.
I can't help but feel the messages Luz tried and failed to send in Separate Tides (and possibly at other points in season 2 offscreen) are going to play a big role there.
@@toon4thought omg i hadn't thought of that yet. I was almost coming to terms with the hiatus but now you f'd me up :(
But then again Dana said she did not like happy endings and that seems like a happy ending
@@Maaii_laaa Didn;t she say specifically she doesn't like "Happily ever afters' and not happy endings? those two are different
To add to that, no matter the decision, something "not good" will stay
One of The only things the only thing that separates Luz and Iruma is the luz does have a reason to return to the human realm. A big reason why iruma stayed in his demon realm is that even if he returned, he would have nothing to return to.
"Twitter is not a place for education". THANK YOU! way too many people are using Twitter as the gospel for insightful analysis without really reading into it and trying to understand other sides of issues that are complex. Loved this analysis of Luz and her mom: you were confident on your study but didn't come off as a forced expert or that you know better. It comes from a place of experience and we need a lot of that in our analysis of fiction.
For a second, I misread that as "Twitter is not a *bad* place for education," and I was like, "Yeah, sure, whatever."
Time to add that to my reasons to not get twitter other than for game benefits
I won't lie, Twitter was probably humanity's biggest mistake, and sadly, despite knowing how horrible, toxic and harmful it is people just still let it exist
I don't use twitter to gain info cause it's hot garbage as F.
Only videos on TH-cam, Reddit, Fandom Wikis, and Random Comments who make a good point.
@@josemarquez9454 this is why i never use Twitter
wait, people thought she was a bad mom?
I am not in the fandom, but its usually the young lumity shipper on Twitter who I see saying that. I can be wrong but...
People (mostly on Twitter) were calling her abusive.
@@ToonRuinsOfficial Hi I think camilla is a good parent to but I also think she did not communicate to cuz that she was making other people uncomfortable with her fantasy antics and may have thought the camp was her only option for cuz to develop healthy habits when she becomes an adult. I also think camilla thought camp would make cuz thrive and make friends which she did on the boiling isle with Eda king and willow Gus and Amity I don't think camilla is a bad mom just struggling to understand and communicate with her daughter
I know, I don’t get it
@@rachelfiter9542 tbh, how are you even gonna expect those two to have good communication when Luz literally brought snakes to school that was played off as a "gag"
There's the irony of that Luz was gonna be sent to "think inside the box" camp to learn about how to not be a chaos magnet that freaks people out, and what she got instead was the Boiling Isles, where she eventually learns to dial herself back on being a chaos magnet that causes trouble for others. (Season 1 Luz was definitely a force of chaos and distress for Amity. And eventually Luz and Amity managed to grow into understanding each other better. :) )
Oh, the irony.
The Boiling Isles did a great job in 'reforming' her lol
@@aaroncabatingan5238 'reforming' her ?
@@daniapfel2825I think he means Luz gaining a better grasp on social ques and becoming more mature without sacrificing who she is
@@garrettjackson1451 Oh yeah true
Camila is a wonderful mother and a character we need to see more of in the show. Her adopting Vee would seriously make me die from the feels.
How can people call Camila abusive while at the same time they're defending Alador... smh
they are alador simps thats why
I'm pretty sure it's because of the idea that Alador is neurodivergent, and that Camila is not only neurotypical, but (in their eyes) she's also trying to crush Luz's neurodiversity. And we all know the truth about Camila from this video, so I'm gonna focus on Alador here.
While I actually do agree with the idea that Alador is neurodivergent, I however do NOT agree with the idea that that makes him completely innocent in all the Blight family toxicity going on here! Sure, Odalia is definitely the more 'dom' one in their marriage and as parents, but Alador is still definitely not a good parent, and we shouldn't excuse his bad parenting for his neurodiversity because that just makes neurodivergent (especially ones who are also parents) people look bad in general. People really need to learn how to tell the difference from something that's out of your control because of your disability vs something that's completely a learned behavior and can be changed.
(Also, here's a drinking game. Take a shot for every time I say a word that starts with 'neuro'. Or actually, maybe not, because you might actually get alcohol poisoning from this. Just use water instead or something, lmao!)
@@GracefullyAutistic People assuming Luz’s mom is neurotypical, then attacking her for it reeks of ableism and misogyny. ND Moms commonly get diagnosed while their kids get diagnosed. Femme ND people for a long time were overlooked. ND is genetic and Luz had to get her ND from somewhere. There’s a 50/50 shot it came from her mom, and it’s even more likely when you see how well they bond and communicate indicating they think similarly
Honestly I don't think either are abusive. Tho Alador had a bit of a problem neglecting his children but he does care about them. Odalia is definitely abusive tho
@@GracefullyAutistic I think Alador is much more of a neglectful parent rather than outright abusive.
Other people: *think Camilla sucks*
Me: She took out a guy with nothing but a sandal, what are you talking about?
hispanic mothers with sandals are the most powerful beings in existence
@@JazzTheLass Having seen Coco, I can attest to that.
You mess with la latina, you get la chancla 😂
@@JazzTheLass Filipino Mother's too
@@eutchin7592 If not the tsinelas, the B E L T
as someone who's been emotionally abused by my parents for the last 18 years of my life, I would BEG AND PLEAD to have Camila be my mother. She's the ideal parent, she's what most abused kids wish they had. we want someone who is human and is willing to hold themselves accountable so we, the kids, dont have to be stuck between attempting to hold them accountable and suffer their wrath or sit quietly and wait years and years for it all to be over. I really think that the people accusing Camilla of being abusive are projecting quite a bit. I've seen a lot of the things Camila's done in my own "parents," but the difference is that Camila is doing it out of love or making a genuine mistake and will probably be willing to own up to it and make up for it. my "parents" did it out of malice (an act of control rather than love (and even then, abuse CAN be and often is completely accidental because abusive tendencies are deep-seeded learned behaviors)) and have no desire to apologize or make up for anything they did because they cant fathom themselves being wrong. apologizing to me or my brother about any act they did is too hard because that would mean they would have to grapple with the fact that they've abused their two disabled, ND kids (one of then queer) for their entire lives, frequently doing so through weaponizing my and my brother's minority statuses against us (ie taking my brother's special interest items away because he forgot to do the laundry because part of his struggles with ADHD is memory and time management, and they know all of that. and actively and verbally doubting my transness and otherwise being transphobic in the middle of a serious conversation to get me to shut up when they get too uncomfortable with me challenging them). Real abuse looks almost nothing like the acts of Camila, and it angers me that people would support claims otherwise.
Well damn, your parents suck (When you have the money, and courage, I suggest you tell them everything wrong about them, and if they try to shut you up, slap them right there and now).
I’m so sorry you had to deal with all of that. Are you doing better now?
I never thought carmila was a bad parent, and neither Luz as a bad daughter. The only thing that keeps them at odds is misheard communication. (To me) Luz is rather easy to guilt trip and in episodes like five and Seven, she doesn't seem to try to say the truth (like how eda was the one who humiliated amity or how she never told amity that once she discovered her diary, she wanted and tried return the diary where it belongs because reading someone else's diary is wrong) and decides to rather take the blame. Carmila is just very sensitive to me. Like if she's crying, it's really hard to make her listen to others (and it is especially true when finding out her child was in a demonic world for 2-3 months). I think If carmila was able to be more emotionally in control and/or if luz could stand up for herself better and try to talk from honsety and actuality, the results (especially in yesterday's lie) could have been very different. Sometimes, I think Luz has a masochistic side which wants to be punished, hurt and yelled at. Maybe it's because all of the others she has hurt in the human realm. Maybe that's why she lied to eda, king and hooty back at the end of yesterday's lie, to be more hurt (like when her friends will find out Luz lied, they'll yell at her and call her a rotten liar; something she secretly wants to be called because this is how she sees herself. I also thought back to when she called herself a "bad boy" I think it was more of a cry of inner pain. When she said bad we (and most likely a lot of her part) thought of bad as a slang for cool or awesome, when in actuality she meant: "I'm a bad person. I hurt people wherever I go. I don't deserve being Loved. I deserve being hurt and loathed, I deserve to be forever alone, I deserve to live in the cold with no warm shelter and food, mom should have thrown me out the moment she first saw me and create another, I don't deserve the friends I have, they deserve better.").
I honestly think you really hit the nail on the head with saying that these fans are projecting too much. Even I couldn't help but project onto Luz a bit at the beginning of this series, even though my issues are more about the school system and my extended family, rather than my mom, my mom is actually a lot more understanding than they are. But I actually think that Yesterday's Lie was a very redeeming episode for Camila, as opposed to the the first and last time we saw her in the very first episode. I definitely disagreed with Camila sending Luz to that summer camp (and kinda still do, because y'know, projecting), but I didn't think that Camila was a bad parent just because of that. But at the same time, it was a bit hard to empathize with Camila at first until Yesterday's Lie, when we see that Luz genuinely loves Luz's creativity, but was very concerned for her future wellbeing, like any normal parent would be.
I doubt you were abused.
A good protagonist is someone who grows, changes & learn from their mistakes. Not characters who are 100% in the right so you can feel comfortable with them.
Anyone who calls this Queen a bad mother is never welcome in my house for dinner.
@TheStarCatcher some fancy pasta dish (I didn’t actually expect a reply so I came up with something on the spot)
And if they try, they'll get La Chancla!
And the boys can be bouncers with El Cinturón
THANK YOU!!!! I’ve been saying this for the longest. Camila is just a mom in an uncertain situation. Owl house choosing to show what it actually would be like to see a parent react to their kids going on a dangerous adventure. She’s not infallible either. She could’ve talked to Luz first to tell her that she’s making uncomfortable and put their lives in danger. They made her so well rounded. It’s amazing how people want to box her in as some terrible parent.
First, I like the new intro!
Second, I’m not even an Owl House fan, but you did a very good job analyzing Camila’s character and her role as a single parent to a neurodivergent child. She loves Luz, but that doesn’t mean she’s going to condone everything her daughter does. A good parent has to set boundaries, and just because their kid is neurodivergent doesn’t mean they can excuse poor behavior. And I agree, we need to stop “othering” parents in animation. I want more supportive, active parents in kids shows, dang it!
If it helps, the main character's mother in my story is an active character.
@@ARCtheCartoonMaster Oh? May I ask what your story is about and how this mother factors into it?
There might have been threats of legal action that Luz wasn’t aware of.
Students were injured by the snakes that Luz snuck into the school, she brought fireworks to school, in Connecticut it’s illegal for someone as young as Luz to purchase fireworks, so she either illegally purchased them or got her mom to buy them under false pretenses and planned to set them off.
If Luz was any other character besides the protagonist people would be jumping on her for her reckless behavior as she could have hurt the protagonist, one of their friends or someone we like.
Someone could have given Luz the fireworks
Yeah it's quite possible that Camila was given the option by the principal and the police to either send Luz to the pseudo-bootcamp that had been brought up beforehand or to face a pretty severe lawsuit.
@@LilyArtemis14 probably not a lawsuit but most likely she would get expelled and whatever legal action necessary for those fireworks.
@@LoreCatan definitely a lawsuit! The other parents probably dont want their kids to be in danger whilst at school and could have sued camila
@@LilyArtemis14 Take third option: Unleash the Ark of the Covenant to turn the principal into goop and convert Gravesfield into a palace! Then resurrect Roger Williams and make him the new principal. No longer will Boston be the metropolitan hub of New England but PROVIDENCE!
Camelia asking if she was being a bad parent is such an important point. I’ve seen parents who have been abusive, and they’d never ask that question. They always have to be right. If their kid ever confronted them or asked them to be abusive, like you touched on, the parent would use tactics like shifting the blame onto the kid, gaslighting them into thinking there is no problem, etc. Self aware parents are an underrated gift
even if we interpret camila's words as unintentional guilt tripping, it's kinda crazy that we expect perents to say perfectly appropriate thungs in situations this wild(even the demon realm out of the equasion). in extream emotional states we tend to say kinda abusive things, especially when defending ourselfs, which isn't good but nobody can keep a perfrct record especially perents. it's good that we as a society talk about abusive perenting but I think we sorta got to the point where we blame perents for having emotions.
people like to take things to one extreme to the other
I think the last scene in Yesterday's Lie is so shocking and upsetting because Camila had been a perfect patient mom throughout the whole episode up until that point, where she breaks down and reveals to both Luz and the viewers that she's not handling the news as well as she seemed. [Not a bad thing]
A lot of us project ourselves onto Luz while watching the show, because most of us are weirdos/neurodivergent/queer or all three, and most of us fear what our parents will do if we told them how we really feel or who we are. It was very easy for us to feel like we're in Luz's shoes when she told her mom the truth, and her initial easy acceptance in helping Vee and letting her stay was a big relief.
Camila breaking down later on felt like the opposite of that, as the initial response made us put our guards down, and made the exchange even more painful [and made me have flashbacks to when I personally came out to my mom]. I'm not saying Camila was a bad mom, she did the best in the situation she was unfairly placed in, but it's also fair for Luz's feelings to have been hurt by her mom's behavior/reaction, however understandable. Her mom made her feel like everything was fine and then revealed everything was _not_ fine, and having something that brings you joy and/or makes your happy bring someone else pain through a misunderstanding is even more painful, especially since you don't have time to explain.
You can't control/help how you feel, and how you're feeling isn't wrong. I think that should be the core message of that scene. Camila isn't wrong to feel this way, and neither is Luz. Camila can't help feeling scared, and Luz can't control feeling happier in the Boiling Isles, it's just something they need to talk about. And the audience can't help projecting onto Luz, the audience can't control feeling betrayed by Camila's changed reaction, and they're not wrong for feeling that way either. As long as we're aware of what feelings and experiences we're projecting onto this _very_ different situation, this is a very valuable learning opportunity.
I feel like those who call Camila a bad mom either have AMAZING moms or are too young/inexperienced to understand the difference. Is it wrong for a mother to want her daughter to stay with her, instead of letting her be where she can thrive the most? Yes, probably. So WHAT?! People make mistakes, all parents do. She will learn and support her daughter once she understands.
The place where she can thrive is also full of danger and things that can kill her, she was very lucky to have met Eda and King, any parent would freak out in that situation.
Seriously, take Subaru from Re:Zero for example, the place where he can be more useful is the place that has killed him more times than any common man would be able to stand (which proves just how strong he is, mentally) even being able to ressurrect, if his parents knew what he went through, they would want him to stay where is safe, same with Camilla, she wants her daughter to stay where it is safe, that is not even taking into account that her daughter just disappeared one day without a trace and only now came back, this is the worst fear a parent can go through.
I think there from the people who aren't reached their double digits yet.
Besides, do we, the audience, know how much Luz told her? As in, did she told her about her second mom Eda? Or her girlfriend Amity? Or her friends King, Willow, or Gus?
@@juanrisa945 I assume she told her mother about Eda, Amity and her friends, i doubt she told her Amity is her girlfriend, or that Eda has a curse that turns her into an Owl Demon, or that King is a demon.
Interestingly enough, I NEVER saw Camilla as an abusive mom. I just saw her as a mom who wanted her daughter to be herself while also not putting others into harmful or uncomfortable situations.
I understood where both parties were coming from. And I have the "My parents are being so unfair" POV when in reality my parents (or at least my bio dad and stepmom) have shown many times they just want what's best for me. Or at least that's what I've come to understand. If anything, I've tended to be the one being potentially abusive/toxic towards my parents to some degree (even if it's not true, it feels that way)
The theme of Season 2 is the relationship we have with our parents. The Blights and Belos are how Luz perceives her mother when in reality she's a lot closer to Eda's mother someone who tries their best and means well but doesnt fully understand their child.
Yesterday's Lie is one of the best episodes by showing that had Luz stayed, she would've had fun at camp and her mother would always love her.
Marcy from Amphibia is similar to Luz. Both have narrow interest and can only thrive in a fantasy world. However, Amphibia explores that Marcy's interests aren't the problem so much as what they compell her to do to. Additionally, it really does into the idea that traveling into your ultimate fantasy isn't a healthy solution .
"Educational twitter threads shouldnt be your main source of information" Preach to the choir on that one
You’ve got to wonder how much of Camila’s feelings is about guilt. Single mother with no partner in the picture (aside from the actual photo with the obscured face the FMA fan in me is convinced will be important later) and a working single mother at that. Who knows how much of Luz’s intense fantasy interest came from time spent by herself while her mother was working, watching anime and reading The Good Witch Azura instead of trying to make friends with her peers in a way they’d be receptive to. In the opening scene Camila is wearing surgical scrubs, implying she was called at work and considering how many times Luz had been at the principal’s office, how many times has that happened? I reckon Camila has often asked herself is there’s a way she can be a better mother, to try help Luz in a way she can see herself how Camila sees her.
I'm 100% sure that the people who call Camila a bad or even an abusive mom are just projecting or they catalog any mistake as a "toxic behavior"
Thank you!!! I've seen way too many people in the comment sections of owl-house related videos claiming Camila to be abusive when I knew for sure that wasn't the case. Sure, the camp may have been seen as too harsh as well as the promise she had Luz make in the end of "Yesterday's Lie", but this video helped to point out the context of this particular situation. I don't think I could have explained it better myself! Great video!
People also need to realize that that within the context of it being a children's show, the name/branding of the camp was likely exaggerated to be funny/make Luz's actions look more justified to the viewer. Those types of summer camps exist, and I've been to one as a child with ASD who didn't have any friends/was in a similar situation to Luz at her age. They aren't bad places, and I was given the option to leave if I didn't like it.
And guess what? It helped me develop social skills that I lacked and wasn't developing naturally on my own. Literally all it is is a normal camp with fun camp activities that you can choose/choose not to interact with. I sat out whenever I didn't feel comfortable, and I was never yelled at. Maybe other people have had different experience's, but we can tell directly from Vee that the camp was similar to the one that I went to. Like literally I got to eat whatever I wanted, ride horses and make whatever out of arts and crafts materials. It was NOT a case of abuse.
A lot of people see a parent who makes a mistake or makes a decision that they don't automatically agree with, and they're too quick to label that parent as abusive. It's frustrating, to the point of me being pretty positive that a lot of folks don't actually know what abuse LOOKS like if they think Camila is abusive.
@@ToonRuinsOfficial Thank you for sharing your experience. I have never been to a camp of any kind, so I didn't really know how it works besides from what's in the media. Also, I've been noticed by a youtuber I like! Awesome!
@@ToonRuinsOfficial She tried to discipline Luz before sending her to a camp?
@@ToonRuinsOfficial You’re so right and i guess The Owl House changed your life like with Steven Universe
I had to pause, at 11:39 to add something before I forgot. We see that camp was not as bad as it was made out to be, and I feel like Liz could have made a lot off friends there. When Vee went to camp in Luz’s stead we see that there were plenty of “weird” kids just like her that she was able to make friends with. We also see that the kids still or themselves. The camp was intended to tone down a person behavior, to have a balance between creatively and being aware/ mind/ careful of your surrounding and the people in it.
I mean yeah that makes sense. The people at the camp are all there for the same reason.
I agree but in a way the boiling isles was Luz’s reality check
as someone who was actually abused as a child. i have to agree with everything you have said here. i would love to have had a mother as understanding and loving as camilla
Me also dude
Nice to know there’s people who know the difference between “abusive and closed off to different things” and “well-meaning and understanding but still flawed”.
This is such a good read on Camilla and Luz's relationship. Something Yesterday's Lie did a really good job at was establishing a connection between Luz's kindness and compassion with Camilla's parenting. Luz has changed for the better on the isles but the reason she reached out and helped so many people was because she looks up to her mom so much. I'm also glad you mentioned that Luz never got to explain the good parts of the isles because of the situation Vee was in, which as you really nicely lay out is really important for understanding both characters in the final scene.
One really interesting thing you brought up in the video was the fandom space tendency to avoid growth based mindsets, which really hit the nail on the head with what I've been witnessing over the past few years. It's sad to see it in space surrounding The Owl House, because one of my favorite aspect of the show IS the growth the main characters go through over the course of it. It's why, despite it not being my favorite episode, the ending scene of "Witches Before Wizards" really struck home for me. Luz was desperate for a change in her life, and while she was a destructive child we see a lot of signs that life on earth (outside of her relationship with Camilla) was not kind to her. But over the first two episodes she faces very similar problems on the isles as back home, to the point where after the run in with the shapeshifter she resolves to go back home. Eda taking her up to show her the isles as a beautiful mess and telling her that she can't wait for change, that she must be the one who chooses to change is the start to one of my favorite character arcs in media. I hope by the end of the series more of the younger fans are able to pic up on this message, but for now I'll just be happy waiting for Camilla and Luz to get their chance to sit down and really talk.
Fantastic video, you brought a deep insight to the life of a neurodivergent child and the relationship to their family and laid it out in such a clear way to your audience. This will be a good resource if I'm ever having a discussion with someone about Camilla as a character. I hadn't seen any of your work before but I'm excited to see what coming next and will have a good time going through your backlog of videos in the mean time.
I think Marcy from Amphibia is a good comparison to Luz. Someone who enjoys fantasy so much she doesn’t seem to operate in the real world (Anne had to call out dangers to her for her to evade or stop before) and ends up in a fantasy land seemingly tailor-made for them to thrive in. Just as Luz decided to stay in the Boiling Isles to avoid the reality check summer camp, Marcy couldn’t face being separated from her friends (her father had a job transfer) and was the whole reason the trio of herself, Anne and Sasha were scattered across Amphibia. Like how Luz learned the demon realm didn’t follow the fantasy conventions she idealised (the second episode deconstructing the chosen one quest by having Luz initially buy into it completely, cute animals and hunky brooding hero and all) , Marcy herself faced a horrible truth about the characters she saw as allies which undermined her perception of Newtopia and King Andrias.
Yep, I can definitely see kids arguing this without looking at the bigger picture with some of them probably projecting their own issues with their parents onto these characters. Low key been there, though I never went around calling fictional characters horrible people because of it.
I believe you‘re definitely onto something when you point out that this part of the community is also extremely anti-change and anti-redemption. When you‘re a kid *(especially* when you’re a young teen), you sometimes just want to be mad and to be validated in feeling this way. The idea that solutions can be found and that people can make amends and change for the better is kind of beyond you because at that age, change is just something that kind of happens to you and the kids around you, oftentimes instigated by the adults in your life. In your mind, nobody changes because they truly want to.
This is especially true when you‘re a weird kid who is often pressured into being „normal“, but you see it in other people too. Classic example: Your bullies only apologize to you when an adult makes them, you know they don’t actually mean it and will be back to picking on you the next day.
So when people, especially parental figures (even fictional ones like Camilla), are saying that one should seek to adjust certain behaviors because they aren’t helping or actually harmful, I absolutely understand how some kids get defensive thinking that the show is siding with the kind of people who mock them for being different and that this is some kind of attack on their individuality, even in situations where the criticism that is being given is genuinely warranted. Doesn’t help when their real parents aren’t supportive and try to change who they are because that is a thing that actually happens. To them, change isn’t something you choose for your own good, it’s a pressure to resist. Adjusting in any way would be letting the bullies win.
A big part of growing up is learning to tell which criticisms you can apply to yourself to become a better person and which ones are unreasonable and to be discarded. This isn’t always easy, but mastering this plays a big part in feeling better about yourself overall.
This is the best way to put it honestly
Really mature way of seeing it 👍
Man for someone Who's from an abusive household
I'd do anything to have Camila as my mother cause she's probably the best mother i've ever seen so far
Seriously what were some people expecting? "Yes my 14 years old daughter, stay in the demon realm where i can't even talk to you" forget about wanting to protect Luz, just wanting to be with your kid is a reasonable enough reason for her to not be happy about it.
And it's crazy that the Blights don't get this much hate, tho i'm guessing most of the people pushing the "Camila bad" thing, are kids themselves, and generally would relate more to frustrations with a parent like Camila than the Blights, so whatever, kids are kids.
Yeah
Through the lense of neuro divergence Luz’s behaviour makes so much sense and it makes me 1. Appreciate her writing more and 2. Understand her actions so much more I love this show even more now oh my gosh like the boiling Îles itself is a metaphor for being different and it’s not just “being quirky” which is what I previously thought which made it seem so peachy to me but the differences in our brains, gosh this show is brilliant
Wait... I thought it was common knowledge that she was neurodivergent?
@@ARCtheCartoonMaster it probably was I’m just dumb
@@ccherry.berryy You’re not dumb
The fact that this has to be a title of a video is very upsetting. Camila is a mom like any other or even better, with flaws, but is always trying her best for Luz.
Wonder how much this would be updated/changed given the finale of the Owl House. Since we saw in Thanks to Them how the camp wasn't even Camila's idea.
This was needed so much... People need to understand that actions have consequences and that Luz's behavior at the beginning was dangerous, not only weird. The saddest thing is that even the show has shown it that many many times by ironically making Luz more mature and grounded now that she actually faced the reality of her fantasy world. This chapter with Vee and Camila is the logical next step in that arc.
Regarding the "othering of parents", another show that I think avoids this trope is Hilda. It might look like it's going in that direction in the beginning, but both the public and Hilda herself end up understanding so much of Hilda's mom's behavior and decisions as the show goes along.
The only reason people are mad a camila is because she gets in the way of lumity that’s 60% why
After finding out that they live in Connecticut I did some digging into their fireworks laws. They are very much illegal without a license and while sparklers aren't considered fireworks, Luz is too young to buy even those. Now I question how she even got them. The principal would of had to of covered for her, even after the snake bit him, and Camila might of been forced to send Luz to camp as a compromise at that point or else Luz would of been punished by the state.
I agree even though it’s a kids show realistically if they had gone off Camila would be dealing with a lot of lawsuits and legal trouble
After season 3 happened, and knowing the real reason behind the dad’s absence, this video hits different (in a good way of course!)
I’m sure others have already mentioned, but the death of Manny was also for sure weighing on them both alongside all this.
There’s also the added context of Luz being bullied (which was implied by Luz’s “look for exist points” and her lines in Knockin on Hooty’s Door.)
I think you're being to generous to the fandom. I little something I've observed in fandoms is that the same people who call Camila abusive, are the same ones who call Luz a bad protagonist and that Amity should have been the main character. They are the same ones that's believe all of Simon's crimes in Infinity Train were all Grace's fault. When it comes to fandoms, people of colour are always seen in the worst possible light and white people often have all of their crime excused. The same fans who claim Camila is an abusive parent will also try to defend Alador Blight from having done anything wrong. This is not a coincidence, it's a pattern.
SPEAK ON IT!!!
THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE. White fans (whether consciously or otherwise) despise brown characters and it’s annoying as hell. Like you could make an entire list of these characters.
YOURE RIGHT, YOURE SO RIGHT. The same people who call Camilla abusive call Odalia, Alador and Belos "Dilfs"/"Milfs". I remember how fucking pissed I was when people said Amity shouldve been the protag, POC are always bitched on in fandoms and nobody seems to care
You're correct, but as a white person, it didn't feel appropriate for me to speak on that issue and on the behalf of others. I only spoke on the technical terms of abuse (specifically parental abuse) since I'm speaking from experience in that department. If you're looking for somebody who has covered this, Harriyanna Hook made a video about TOH fandom's issue with racism. Or just fandom spaces in general, honestly (she also has a lot of good videos on Miraculous Ladybug that I would recommend). She has a lot of really insightful analysis, and as a Black woman, covers it better than I ever could.
What’s funny is that these are also the same people that will go on a twitter rant about how poc aren’t represented yet contribute to the issue.
A parent who takes responsibility for their child’s actions to make sure they’re raised well enough to not harm anyone yet also wants their own kid to never be ashamed of who they are as a person no matter how weird they may seem to the outside world… IS A BAD PARENT?! If anything that’s the complete OPPOSITE of a bad parent! That’s what every guardian should be! I would kill to have parents like this!
EDIT: After finishing the entire show, SHE IS THE BEST PARENT! She was willing to listen and understand Luz no matter how much Luz legit screwed up! She’s what I would aspire to be if I were to be a parent! She never even wanted to send her to that camp in the first place.
oh my god THANK YOU for doing this, i am so sick of people complaining that camilla is a bad parent without really considering other perspectives
I think the reason why people said guilt-tripping was for her saying "You hated living with me that much?" Which is like, I get why; but also I think people aren't getting it.
Camila didn't want to guilt trip Luz, she was just losing it. In probably less than an hour she learned that the demons and magic are realm, her daughter has been living in another dimension for weeks and has no idea how to come back.
She even says that much herself, how she cannot hold it together; she didn't mean to make Luz feel guilty, she was just afraid and hurt. And while I don't like the idea of kids needing to comfort their parents, I cannot say she is a bad parent for it; is an extreme situation which of course she doesn't know how to handle.
Doing what she did doesn't make her abusive, it makes her human.
"Camila is not abusive" and "Luz is not a bad kid". I agree with you. I'm grateful for the show because it illustrates that even the best of intentions can be taken hard and people might need a bit of help with developing self-awareness, not to the point of stifling themselves, but so they can get their intentions across, and also realize that people can and will take things the way they want regardless of what they do, and they're entitled to that. It's also quite difficult for Neuridivergents because they are the minority, and when they can speak and generally function, people try to explain away their neurotype and symptoms as "imaginary".
Nah, Luz was terrible
Considering Emperor Belos' existence, the fact that Owl House Twitter would call Camila abusive makes me scared about how they would view Belos, a man that attempted genocide, abused his nephew Hunter, and ruled the Boiling Isles and the Emperor's coven with an iron fist.
It’s annoys me when kids think that just because their parents aren’t being fair, they call it abuse. Abuse leave lasting trauma whether u are aware of it or not.
This aged so perfectly.
It might be a good idea to make either an updated version of or alternatively a follow up for this video to account for what was revealed following its release, namely the three specials
I say this because your prediction to how Camila will react once Luz returns to her and Camila sees how well Luz has been doing since coming to the Demon Realm was proven right
Your conclusion about the camp, while correct, is also somewhat incomplete because arguably the biggest thing the weird kids got from it was a healthy support system; the thing Luz, Camila, Eda, Amity, Hunter, Willow, Vee, etc arguably needed most
Even before watching this video, when I saw this episode for the first time I was able to see things in Camila prospective. I felt so bad for her. Her child was basically trapped in a fantasy world where someone could easily kill her if she wasn’t careful.
So many things in this video that I'll be quoting, not about The Owl House, but about life in general. The stuff about being 'anti self improvement' and how being neurodivergent doesn't make us incapable of learning and trying to be good to the people around us. I've talked to so many people who call it bigotry or abuse if I say that I had to learn how to communicate without making people uncomfortable, when to pause so other people could talk or how to tell when I was freaking people out. People who've said I was abused because my parents made me learn coping skills to combat my learning difficulties, and say that I'm perpetuating that abuse when I ask them to consider the effect they have on the people around them. Like you said, people who use their disabilities as scapegoats. You word a lot of things really well here, so they sound informative and caring rather than aggressive and bigoted. I hope I can get my points across better using this video to inform the way I structure my arguments.
Those anti self-improvement people are narcissists who want to be the exception to the rules
yes yes yes! really hate how everything is exaggerated in fandom spaces (it happened when avatar made a resurgence on twitter :/) …at the end of the day it makes for more entertaining show when characters make mistakes!!!
Camila isn't a bad mother. She's not perfect either, she's a single mother trying her best. Both her and Luz really do love each other; however, they have terrible communication. Luz made poor choice of words that made her mother upset, scared and feeling guilty.
Vee misunderstood Luz and Camila and Vee needs to hear Luz and Camila's side before judging.
At this point, I'm pretty certain that anyone who still thinks that Camila's a bad parent is either racist or stubbern. Ideally the laughter.
I got into an argument with a fanfic writer about a month ago over their interpretation of Camila (If you know who I'm talking about, then sorry). And almost all of their arguments either didn't hold water or were disproven by the show itself. Some notable ones where:
"Sending her to Reality Check camp never was or will be justified"
(Camp was, at worst, boring at times. Going by Vee and her friends)
"Neither was treating Luz's enjoyment of fantasy as a whole as something to be fixed"
(Camila never treated her interests this way.)
"And she was perfectly happy when her daughter came back completely different."
(She wasn't. Camila actively showed concern when Vee started acting different compared to Luz)
So yeah. My guess for what happened? People built up this negative interpretation of Camila in their head over season 1 and the Hiatus. And when the show finally came back and just proved these people wrong. They refused to change their interpretations for one reason or another.
19:47 - My mom keeps asking when I'll come back home and if I hated living with her for the past 13 years. This part of the show hit home really hard.
When I first read the title of the video, my first thought was “People think she is a bad mom? Was her character in question?!” I was genuinely surprised to hear that anyone thought Camilla was a bad mom. After watching the video and the points you brought up, I can understand why by people thought the way they did but a lot of those people seemed to have missed the full context of situation. And to help Luz feel better about going to camp, Camilla was willing to blow off work and drive Luz there herself. She was gonna make it a small day trip for them and spend some time together before Luz is away for the summer. A truly abusive parent would not care enough to do that.
I get what you mean and I agree, Camilla isn't an abusive or bad mom, just one that was at her ropes end and desperate with a wild child. However you are wrong about one thing. Some toxic parents are willing to take days of work and make day trips to help their nervous children for big changes such as going to a sleep away camp for the first time or in my case college. Yes they may love their children, but they have serious toxic behaviors they either ignore or are not aware of and they won't change. I am not saying Camilla is like this because she's not. But their are some parents that will do things to help their children but they still are toxic.
Some fandom these days would call anyone abusive even a mother who was scared for their kids.
The camp can NOT be a point for Camilla being a bad parent. She was forced to send her there.
It's astonishing people on Twitter think Camila Noceda is on the same level as Philip, talk about false equivalence, if Camila was as bad as Belos, she would not have accepted Vee into her home, nor the other witches at the end of "King's Tide". Besides, Luz was quite a handful, and for a single mother would been more challenging, heck, Luz was a challenge for Eda, as we see her getting into trouble out of immaturity, and pursuing fantasy fulfilment, by the way, Luz got off easy, whether she went to summer camp or the Boiling Isles, Luz could have been arrested and sent to juvenile, for bringing snakes to school that assaulted pupils and the principle, and bringing fireworks to school, a judge would have sentenced Luz to the camp anyway.
Nice in depth, compassionate analysis! Although, I'm not sure Infinity Train (as you implied) paints the parents in the wrong in the end either, at least in Book 1. Yes, we clearly see Tulip is being hurt by her parents' divorce, which prompts her to run away and get on the train. But we know from the beginning that it was a misunderstanding rather than a malicious act that prompted Tulip to run away (her father was unable to take her to camp and her mother had to work), and in Tulip's memory tape in "The Cat's Car", Tulip starts to recognize that her perception of the divorce wasn't accurate, and it becomes a big crux for her character development (and stops her from becoming trapped in her memories for forever)
She realizes the divorce didn't come out of nowhere like she thought - she was in denial, actively changing her memories to seem happier than they actually were. And she realizes the divorce wasn't something done *to* her - it just sort of happened. Her parents tried to tell her that they had tried, that she wasn't at fault, and asked if she was okay.
But like Luz, Tulip said "I understand" without really understanding. Tulip deflected and turned bitter instead of hearing her parents out or communicating her feelings of fear and sadness. And in reflecting on what really happened versus what she thought happened, Tulip comes to understand her parents better and stops seeing them as the evil life-ruiners that she ran away from.
Oh, it definitely doesn't. Infinity Train is another show that I think does a wonderful job with that, I just used it as an example since Tulip thinks similarly to the type of folks I was referring to. Her entire arc was about getting compassion for other people besides herself, namely adults. I just like using Infinity Train clips whenever I can. :)
@@ToonRuinsOfficial Ahhh, okay. Fair enough.
A great example of gaslighting is actually in infinity train book 2 episode 8: the wasteland, where the Flec cop tries to convince Lake that all of her actions are being controlled by the train for the sole purpose of helping Tulip and Jessie, saying that she doesn’t have free will and can never be a real person. Here we have the abuser making the victim question their own reality, making them feel bad for being a sliver, and trying to convince them that they aren’t in control of their own destiny and actions
I hope this can also apply to Anne's mom she loves her daughter so much and she just wants her to become an actor famous or a doctor bescase she only wants the best for her and yes she did punish her when she took the blame for her friends and she wanted her to cut ties with her friends they were doing crimes and she did get mad at her for keeping secrets but anne is in a bad place also the fans are really hating on her for not finding a portal or doing something she just reverted back the way she was before to cope with her friends possible death
Finally someone say it
I think everyone loves Anne's parents
@@enti you’d be surprised how much people grasp for things
@@seineevee Ok maybe her mother but not Mr Boonchuy. He just tries to get through the day without anything bad happening. Not to mention he literally thanked the plantars for keeping Anne safe in one episode
Nobody messes with the best Pad Thai maker in Los Angelos and gets away with it!
Spectacular video as per usual. I think a lot of people, myself included, forgot the full context of the pilot episode by the time "Yesterday's Lie" premiered. We definitely got it from Luz's perspective, where the camp seemed like an overreaction to just her quirky personality. But the signs were there that Luz had behavioral problems that went beyond like YA novels and anime, so her mom was for sure in a tough spot.
After the series I full understand the context of Luz’s issues she never needed to change who she is like myself after I got a job I never needed to change who I am as a person and still keep my interests and I learned about respecting peoples boundaries at an early age so I guess I can say I was lucky
No wonder why I relate so much to Luz. I have ADHD on top of having cerebral palsy, anxiety, and persistent depressive disorder. I also possibly have autism spectrum disorder, and am pursuing getting a diagnosis.
I forgot luz had legit hurt and endangered kids. And Was extremely public about weird shite. While camps are something that can work sometimes, they should be the absolute LAST option taken ever.
However, the fault in the mother figure's mainly that she doesn't understand luz's lack of understanding, and treats it as something it is very much not. Its not nessecarily her being bad but its a complete lack of understanding of whats wrong, and addressing it in a very different manner because of it. I do agree now she's not a bad mother. She just lacks in context from experience or simply misunderstanding people themselves.
Those bozos made fun of Luz first!
With the release of "Thanks to Them", Camila's POV is explored in detail and makes all her previous actions and emotions much more justified and comprehensible. She clearly stands out as a true motherhood example, next to Eda and her own mother Gwen, and totally opposed to Odalia Blight and Belos
Thank u! I hate it when ppl say Camila is abusive, she's so obviously not
People who think Camilla is a bad mother can have a mediocre christmas with slightly stale cookies
I am neurodivergent, and I always thought everyone was against me for that. But this helped me understand that it's just that everyone sees my intentions differently.
this also has helped me to learn that I seriously NEED to balance fantasy and reality, I really struggle with that. >:/
in fact, I was watching this when I needed to do something important
Yay, character development
You know what really ticks me off? The fandom saying Luz has this Owl family and junk while completely ignoring/demonizing Camila, who did absolutely nothing wrong. This mother and daughter better be in each other's lives or I will be so mad and disappointed.
This mom actually wasn't the worst parental figures in this show.
Now belos and odalia are both the parents who actually are the most abusive
Wait, are people actually trying to argue that Camila is a bad mom????
Yup. Some being more illogical than others. It mostly has to do with people comparing the summer camp to convention therapy.
@@threebeforetwo Considering what Luz had done, it’s clear she’s not entirely in the right and Camila has legitimate concerns, even when the episode doesn’t do a lot with this because Luz is the protagonist and identification figure once the show moves to the Boiling Isles. The conversion therapy nature of the camp was always an informed aspect and ultimately revealed to be useless at having this effect. If anything it brought together people with like interests and a Basalisk with limited knowledge of Earth was able to make friends there.
I don't think I've seen anything about the new intro. But I'll just say it, it's amazing. I love the explorer vibe and when you character used the magnifying glass and their face changed to reference the old design ✨😫. I love it, I love it all!!
30:15 speaking of Vee’s friends if any of you are looking for some fanfics and veesha stories I know a writer on ao3
3:55 Incorrect information. One episode she was avoiding an event, which turned out to be a funeral for her father. He has been mentioned.
I read the title and the first thing I thought was "what?" How could anyone think this woman is a bad mother? She's a person who is clearly trying to make the best of a stressful situation while trying to make sure her daughter grows into a healthy, well-adjusted adult. How is that wrong?
I never knew people thought she was. I peronally think she's awesome! She's only human, after all. She's doing her best.
Camilla reminds me of my own mom (it doesnt help that they have the same job lol) and if I have to say so myself. Both my mom and camilla are good moms. Flawed yes, makes mistakes yes but she does her best and that's what counts right?
In the show I'm assuming that Luz's adhd hasn't been diagnosed yet (she's doing great btw) and it makes sense that camilla follows the school's advice, in yesterday's lie we can figure that the camp wasn't as bad as luz probably made it out to be ,based on vee's friends.
Also she's honest in how she feels and she's supportive.
As someone who had an abusive dad and only recently hot diagnosed with autism. Camilla deserves a lot more love. I am willing to accept when people say she's not the best of the best because she's not. But she's a decent mom, if not good and I will gladly bet money on the fact that if camilla learns more about the boiling isles that she will allow luz to stay there (granted maybe like a one week here one week there thing or just switching)
I don't even watch the show but from these clips I can tell Camila has good intentions and loves her daughter. Might start watching it now lol
Do it, its great
Toon Ruins you probably are not going to read this but I just want to say that this was an amazing video because you said everything that needed to be said. It's annoying how so many people analyze the show and somehow always miss it.
More people need to acknowledge that Luz was making the kids uncomfortable regardless of intentions and it ticks me how many people either just water down the fact that Luz was scaring and hurting people or flat-out say the kids were bullying her. That just makes no sense and it's a fake narrative just as much as saying Camilla is a bad mom. It's almost all just projection but it is ridiculous.
Fake narrative? Like the time they dissed the nice touch called sausage nipples?
@@jeffreygao3956 I don't understand when did this happen?
@@pinkray2090 That Romeo & Juliet play.
Update: S3E1 Spoilers
Camila(and her husband and Luz) all seem to be neurodivergent, it just happened that Camila learned to mask better(from my reading ofher charachter what with the you were bullied too, defending her kids weirdness with "wolves are great parents" againts parents comments which is oddly specific and feels like a neurodiv thing to say ngl?? and her what seems to be special interest in in-universe Star Trek), but she didn't try to "normalize" Luz at all. If anything from what we see, she was actively defending her and KNEW that she was "weird" and it was an ok thing to be. And from what we see she was basically guilt tripped into sending luz to normalization camp by the principal. Camila's husband seems to have been neurodiv(or atleast i reckon) through how he was weird too.
Well fun fact about snake skin I did my research it’s actually unhygienic to pick it up as you should never pick it up with your bare hands as it contains bacteria that can lead to infection
14:15 I wanna be clear here that I do think that Camila is a good mom trying her best. However, while I don’t think this was her intention, this line seems to have come across to Luz as “change yourself and abandon your interests so that you can make friends”. Again, that’s definitely not what she intended, but she didn’t think her words through and hurt her daughter pretty deeply without realizing
Seriously? Do people really think Luz's mum is abusive? This is normal behaviour - my mum gets worried when I just go on my typical walks. That's what mums do; it's their job to worry.
Amazing analysis!
Yesterday's lie is on my top favorite toh episodes of all time mostly because of how it deals with the consequences of Luz's decision from the first episode and how it shows a really nuanced point of view for the decisions of all three characters involved in this (yes im including vee here). They all had good intentions, they didn't mean any harm, but it still happened in some way or another. But they're not bad people for doing that, they messed up, and all seem genuinely regretful of what it brought, even if it also brought a lot of positives for Luz and Vee.
Even before season 2 i was already 10000% sure Camila was a great mom and nothing from S2 changed that, it only strengthned It. I'm an ADHD teen a few years older than Luz and yeah, everything you said is on point. She's allowed room to grow but doesn't excuse all her actions, and she's still a good kid, who just needed to learn more about boundaries and being considerate, which she has.
There's another great video in defense of Camila who brought a lot of similar points to yours but i still highly reccomend. Its called "in defense of Camila Noceda", by thethirdbill
I was surprised to hear that people call her a bad parent when I was tearing up because she thought Luz running away was her fault as a mother & that she was really scared for Luz 😭😭😭
I love that you made this, I know it’s not the same, but I have Social Anxiety and it’s to a point where it effects my everyday life and my mother, being the amazing person that she is, tries her best to help me, even when it’s reminding me that it’s not as big of a deal as it is in my head. Again, thank you
Given what little information Luz had on the camp (ESPECIALLY FROM THE BROCHURE), I can honestly understand why Luz didn't want to go there and choose to stay in the Boiling Isles instead. She stayed in a place where she could be herself and thrive instead of a place where she thought she would have to change who she is in order to fit in. And even then, I have a problem believing that Luz wanted to run away and just throw away her previous life. She stumbled upon the portal to the Boiling Isles BY SHEER CHANCE, and had full access to the portal throughout Season 1 until she was forced to destroy it in the season finale. So Luz was likely planning to use the portal to return home once the camp session ended in order to avoid suspicion and/or concern from her mother, maybe even use the portal to make short, temporary visits to the Boiling Isles whenever she got the opportunity. And after the portal was destroyed, Luz spent all of Season 2 trying to make a portal of her own in order to return home to her mother. She even expresses concern that her mother is probably worried sick about her as camp ended and she hasn't returned home yet in a previous episode. Luz even says "Goodbye, Mom" in Spanish right before she destroyed the portal, as she knows it was her only way home. Luz didn't want to run away, throw away her old life, or abandon her mother, ESPECIALLY NOT abandon her mother, which is why it kinda rubbed me the wrong way when Vee accused her of doing that.
I have adhd and I absolutely love how it's handled in TOH. I tho for whatever reason am extremely good at reading social cues (I hope I'm right lol) and therefore am also super good in befriending new ppl and environnements. I even used to be quite popular. Now I do have some struggles with social cues, I rarely get sarcasm and often don't know of I'm to clingy to some ppl. Luz is becoming even the same in the demon realm! She started to be more aware of her actions and now had friends and through her kindness and loving way she managed to befriend so many ppl :)
seeing thanks to them makes this video age like fine wine 👍
I wish i had a mom like Camila I love her i made the mistake of hating on Camila when she sent Luz away but after everything she really proved herself in yesterday's lie and thanks to them
Wish these same people dragging Camila would have the same energy for the actual bad parents on this show but we know why they don't.
Well a course she isn't a bad mother, there's no doubt about it. All she was trying to do is do what she thought was best to help her daughter.
Even back before all the context we have from season 3 that has people backpedaling on all the Camila slander they put out…I cannot see how she would ever come off as “abusive” let alone bad. All the people calling her a bad parent are clearly coming in with their own baggage and/or prejudice because those same people would defend Alador to the death.
Even not knowing everything about Camila’s side of events: Camila just wanted to help her daughter make connections and not endanger people. She LOVED Luz’s creativity and said so in the first episode! She just wanted her to tone down the antics that were dangerous and also wanted her to be able to have friends. Those were her biggest concerns and they were very much in Luz’s best interest.
Then she learns her daughter is trapped in “the demon realm” with little context or time (Luz briefs her off screen but it’s still undeniably scary for a parent to learn how dangerous a place their kid has been in for months). She’d be a bad mother if she WASNT concerned or visibly scared for her child’s life. She didn’t know about the entire civilization and the extent of the safety Luz had, and the Boiling Isles is undeniably dangerous for a human: Luz has had MANY close deaths between the fantastical adventures she has been on. If she wasn’t a main character, she might not have made it, tbh. It’s not like Camila’s worries we’re unfounded given what little explanation time they had. Of course she’d want her daughter to come home asap and never go back to presumably a “hell” world. She’d never heard of another realm up until this point. She honestly handled that information very well all things considered.
The audience is coming at her with all the knowledge that Camila DOESNT have. They don’t realize she has no groundwork and they don’t even try to empathize with that. She doesn’t have the context and if we’d only known things from Camila’s POV and then see Luz one day on the phone and she drops all that on Camila- we’d understandably be all “wtf!! That’s so dangerous what??”
People genuinely need to remember that when we see things as the audience, that does not mean that every character knows what we do. You have to think about it from the perspective of that character , but people already are against her, making ideas up of her in their minds and warping their memory of what she actually said to defend Luz (whom they may relate to). But Luz was not completely in the right to run away like she did. Vee literally gives us that perspective too early on in the episode that gives Luz that revelation and makes the last scene with Camila all the harder on her.
As a neurodivergent kid who struggles with boundaries I really understand Luz's perspective. So when Vee called her out it reminded me that yes I am not always a good person and my mom does not always deserve the way I treat her. But my mom is much more toxic than Camila so its a bit different but I understand not all my mom's bad actions are meant to be harmful.
Honestly, I don’t get how she got the title of “abusive”.she seems like a normal mom to me
As someone who didn't want to hate Camila (and never did), initially I saw the abuse connection when I first saw the pilot. The camp flier reminded me of the military boot camp Timmy Turner's actually abusive parents made him go to in fairly odd parents. Especially also reminded me of the reformatory school that (Perry's Dream version of) Candace sent Phineas and Ferb to go to to get rid of their imaginations. However anything past that episode doesnt have any possible inference to come to the conclusion that she's actually abusive. Its possible the camp ITSELF could have been abusive but not Camila herself and she just made a miscalculation. I know in your vid you say Vee making and staying friends with people from camp proves it was actually a good camp after all but I believe you can still make good friends out of s bad situation.
Regardless i dont see how anyone could STILL see Camila as abusive in the season 2 finale. She wins the best parent award by a mile. She complimented how strong Vee is after finding out who she is and she's not only not her kid but is a demon . You made such good points about her being a mom who made a mistake rather than actually being malicious in any way. In conclusion: We love you Camila Noceda ! 💖
Love your animated opening!
Credit to the animator behind it!
In my opinion, most of these people see Luz mother as an obstacle to lumity, so they hate her. They say that Camila is a bad mother only as an excuse for the needless hatred they feel for her.
Luz wasn't old enough to buy those fireworks herself, the legal age to be able buy fireworks in Connecticut is 16 while Luz was 14 at that point in time. So yeah illegal fireworks purchase.
Imagine a mother actually being human…
I haven’t watched the video yet, and I’m sure you’ll go over some great points about Camila’s character, but I just want to say from the title, that I’ve never seen or considered her to be a bad mom, not even Luz does in the show, she constantly wishes to go back to her and loves her, she just wanted to live a fantasy, but if she truly didn’t love her or thought she was a bad mom, she’d never want to go back.
And especially after “Yesterday’s lie” I now truly appreciate her and the love and care she has for Luz.