Why Goku is Better than Vegeta - The Wisdom of Akira Toriyama
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- When it comes to fandoms, my first true love was and will always be Dragon Ball. It's the first thing that I chose to become a diehard fan of. Since the early 2000s, I've stuck pretty closely to the Dragon Ball community. It means a lot to me, and had a major impact on where I am in life today.
For that reason, the passing of the series creator, Akira Toriyama, was hard to take. Now my two favorite manga creators are sadly gone. But the legacy they left is legendary.
You know what's funny? Vegeta was never my favorite character, or even in the top 5. My favorite character was always Piccolo, and Krillin has also risen far in my ranks. But making this video, I realized how much I actually like and know about Vegeta. Being a loner myself, I see myself in him in some ways.
I've actually had this thought in my head about Vegeta and Goku's relationship for awhile, but never put as much thought into it until recently. I started to understand their dynamic after I started doing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. In any martial art, you'll find tons of Vegetas. People who are extremely talented, but are hard to work with due to their ego. And the truth is, we're all in a constant battle with our ego. Even the best of us like Goku.
I don't intend to become a Dragon Ball creator. I just needed to make something to pay tribute to Akira Toriyama and my favorite series. Maybe the occasional video here and there. But I have always wanted to dip my toe into anime/manga analysis, so I hope this is a good start.
I also want to give a shoutout to a youtuber called DragonBallGrandSoundtracks . They are uploading incredible HD versions of Dragon Ball video game music, like the Budokai game music I used for this video. If you need Dragon Ball music, I highly recommend checking out their channel.
I hope you guys enjoy the video! - บันเทิง
![[HIGHLIGHT] หมีLIVEปะ? | EP.171 เห็นแต่ในจอ วันนี้มาต้องขอคารวะ](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gPWLxa0e_Z8/mqdefault.jpg)
Goku has a much greater willingness to learn. This leads to him ultimately spending more time actually studying his opponents
Arnold sums up my entire world view there man. You can't be self made, the roads you drive on, the buildings you train in, the tactics you use, all required someone else, you came from someone else, you learned your abcs from someone else, nobody is self made it's all community, its all humanity. I was hyped off that quote, and it so perfectly encapsulates goku, its why he reps roshi and king kai on his gi.
That quote really does encapsulate Goku well. We don't see as much of it in DBZ since he's already a master by that point, but nearly all of his iconic techniques were learned from someone else.
Especially when you brown nose the right people like arnie did to get into Hollywood lol
That sounds kinda dumb. I'm very much my own person and identity
@@versatileduplicity9313 This has nothing to do with who you identify as, or being your own person lol but if you think you arrived at either conclusion with no outside influence.. you're... incorrect lol
@@versatileduplicity9313you’re your own person huh… so who are “you” then? how do you describe yourself? How would you know “yourself” if it wasn’t for other people
As a Dragon Ball fan since childhood, this is literally one of the most well thought out and incredible Dragon Ball videos I have ever seen.
Thanks for sharing!
👍🏾
Vegetas power prodigy came from his royal bloodline, Goku is a fighting prodigy
Yeah during the Saiyan Saga Vegeta probably could have beaten Goku without transforming if he had remained calm. He would have noticed Goku was getting seriously worn down by using Kaio-Ken so much and if he kept pushing him Goku's body would have given out before he could defeat Vegeta, and as Whis points out in Super Vegeta's tendency to just push himself non-stop with training is actually a weakness.
A point I observe quite regularly. Though, I will say, Vegeta still beat Goku regardless. He beats Goku in every fight they have. The fact that the vast majority of the community can't accept that puzzles me greatly.
@@Alassandrosvegeta is born with better talent, however, Goku works harder and more smarter than vegeta. He is brute hard work when it comes to training, Goku trains with intelligence. Eventually Goku beat vegeta
@@homiesenatep "More smarter" is hilariously ironic
Also, "eventually he beat Vegeta"? What are you talking about? In the 20+ years they've known each other, Goku has never beaten Vegeta. Vegeta is 2-0 over Goku. Goku may do whatever you think he does to "make him better" but Goku doesn't win so I'm not sure how you make that make sense.
Man, imagine thinking Goku is smarter than Vegeta. Even Whis praises Vegeta every step of the way.
@@Alassandros Goku is smarter than Vegeta. And I'm not gonna lie, I wont acknowledge the DBS part of the story(I think it's horribly written) But if we would go off the OG - Z or 1 - 519 of the DB manga, it's blatantly clear that Goku is smarter.
Vegeta is more knowledgeable on social norms and such for a while, and even is arguably so in the end but Goku does literally everything better than Vegeta.
We have Vegeta who is driven by his desire for strength and being the strongest in the universe, he even tries to 'cheat' his way to Super Saiyan be relying on the Zenkai boost of the Saiyans.
Meanwhile, Goku took a harder and more rewarding route by actually training for all of his strength, and accepting his Saiyan heritage when he fights Freeza.
Don't get me started on the Cell and Buu arcs which literally(basically) just tell you that Goku is smarter than him...
But sure, Goku hasn't beaten Vegeta in a fight, that one thing is true, and it's not because he's weaker or worse.
@@Alassandros u seem like another goof who self inserts into vegeta, vegeta himself admitted gokus better, also if u dont know gokus smarter by the end u watched a different show, also goku won the rematch
“…tailored to him” - Ultra Ego under his training with Beerus the best & coolest example of this in how it parallels Goku’s Ultra Instinct.
You know Michael Jordan is the perfect example of starting off as a Vegeta and ending up as a Goku
Goku definitley wouldn't have let Cell achieve perfection. He let Frieza achieve 100% because he already had a guage on Frieza's full power beforehand from fighting his 30% and 50%, and also Frieza powering up to 100% didn't require he kill or absorb another like Cell's transformations do.
You're right. I was actually thinking about his boneheaded decision to give Cell a senzu bean later when I made that comment. I forgot to consider that Cell powering up required him to brutally murder someone, which Goku wouldn't let slide. But IF Cell could reach full power without killing 18, I think Goku would also potentially get carried away and let him.
@@LifeofSlicey1I don’t think he will get carried away as goku in cell arc was most serious he was ever been
Also he didn’t want majinbuu to resurrect from his egg
Great little conclusion to an age old debate among fans.Goku when beaten or outclassed by someone usually tries to either learn from them or train with them to surpass his current point while Vegeta used to mostly just throw a tantrum or brood and proceed to torture his own body through insane training with very little rest.
Something that caught me off guard in Super was Vegeta asking Whis to train him for once which would have been a great change to his character...If you know they didnt just take away his whole acceptance of Goku being better than him at the end of the Buu arc
16:02 “Surprisingly Vegeta was a good father.”
Man didn’t even hug his son once in his first 8 years of living
16:56 “He held his son one last time.”
You mean for the first time.
Man,that’ vegeta evolution as a charachter,from a bad guy and a bad father to being more kind and improving as a father and husband
@@randygonzalez7702
You’re talking about his overall arc. I’m talking about one moment in DBZ
At the start of Buu saga Vegeta was still bad father
@@Sjono ah yeah,you’re right
Vegeta said he hadn't held his son SINCE he was a baby.
Not that he needs to hold Trunks to be a good parent. I reject that notion outright especially considering why Vegeta doesn't coddle Trunks. Trunks would never say his dad was bad. In fact, he emphatically says the opposite (i.e. "My dad is the best" type statements).
Also... He has two kids. Tell me he isn't good to Bulla with a straight face.
@@Alassandros
Tell me that not holding your kid during their development stages of growing up is healthy
Why bring up Bulla when she isn’t around during the beginning of the Buu saga
i always want to explain why goku is the best but my english is never good enough.
i really agree with toriyamas ideology on how to live a life as expressed through goku
you cant just focus on yourself and no others and vice versa.
you need both you need your ego as much as you need others help.
Great video man, keep it up!
I'm reminded of the intro scene with Lui Kang and Kung Lao in Mortal Kombat 11
Lui Kang: I have been training
Kung Lao: All you ever do is train
Lui Kang: And you wonder why I'M the chosen on
Goku has been training all his life. He trains even when he's dead. He surprassed Vegeta long ago. Vegeta only started training after his loss with Goku. Vegeta can train all he wants, but until the day Goku ever stops training, the vegetable man will never reach him. It's like joining a race at the start when everyone else is already half way to the finish line. You're never gonna catch them unless they stop running. Everytime I see Vegemite ask why he can never beat the Carrot I flash back to the dozen of trainers and 2 decades of experience Goku has on him.
>various
The score? Proclaim it. Rather, allow me. 4-0 in canon. 6-0 in Super. AT willed this. Vegeta ALWAYS defeats Goku in their fights. Big facts.
@@BigVEE only thanks to his superior power. in a contest of pure martial arts vegeta is toast
@@saynboi6985 >cope
Funny. Also, you didn't read properly. I mentioned Super, so that gets shot down extra hard (thanks to the 6-0 instance with stipulations leaving it at just fisticuffs aside from flight **for some reason**).
Gokek is a perpetual guard dropper. Habitual opening leaver. Chronic attention misplacer. Easily caught lackin' (if not made to present himself for another free win). Vegeta also has better techniques (that he made) It is fortunate he doesn't work them more (or it would get somehow uglier).
As for pure power, Kakajobber had a more than 33% PL advantage during KKx3 use. Guess what? Couldn't get the job done even with a half dozen blows. Vegeta with that gap (Cui) and even less (Dodoria)? One-taps (into insta-kills **two pieces**). You no-sell and OHKO with such huge gaps. Why was 'our hero' so ineffective?
It gets worse. He cranked it up to KKx4 for over 77% PL advantage. Landed KMHM (x2.2* mulitpler making this hit effectively FOURFOLD the target). Didn't even hurt him (beyond pride). What is this? Anyway, Vegeta TANKS it all then folds the vassal like a napkin. Crumples him up and leaves him for the dustbin. You dig?
Seriously, what is this meme about pretending martial arts are really much of a thing in DB? Bunch of glorified brawlers in truth. Some fancy poses don't really change that nor beams or goofy made-up nonsense (RPS from Grandpa Gohan in particular). They can call it that, but mystical mumbo-jumbo about meditating for zen mentality or whatever isn't real. At all.
In the end, there is a lot of simple strikes and very basic grappling. These guys will slug it out taking turns hitting each other. Don't kid yourself. A few instances of neat choreography exists, but very rarely will it actually try to play at some decent martial arts. That just isn't what AT was about (he was into the stuff, but only fanatical in an entry level way **he was never looking to do battle manga seriously, he is a gag guy**).
Really now, imagine citing 'superior power' as if Vegeta didn't work opportune moments (2-0 and 3-0), trick his adversary (4-0) or just have better stamina (5-0 **arguably 6-0**). You need to accept the will of AT. Vegeta just has his number. Super even makes this more clear (Geets learn IT on his second try within 5 minutes after learning the master level stuff faster than his royal stat padder got the basics **clown needed a week for a dance taking an hour or less**).
Goku and Broly are two sides of the same coin. One is strength with humility and discipline, the other is overwhelming strength with arrogance and savagery.
Are you talking about Z-movie Broly or Super Broly? Because if it's the latter, I fail to see how he's arrogant.
Great tribute!
Goku is way better but they not ready for it
Goku strives to better himself and keep improving day to day. When he sees the peak he only looks for another one to scale. Cell saga he had the best mentality with super Saiyan mastering the base form to allow his roof to grow. His fumble was definitely ss3 as that was a bad idea that was basically burning through his energy for no real benefit especially when he wanted to waste time against buu
Vegeta basically stood at the top of the mountain and thought that was it. He keeps doing it like when he became super Saiyan and super Vegeta which got him humbled quite easily
Vegeta has always been training since he went to earth
@@ferrous3262 training to be the best. Not training to be better. You pretty much proved my point on how their mindsets differ
Heck og db pretty much spells it out too with roshi teaching Goku to keep improving as a stronger foe around the corner while Vegeta kept saying he's the strongest in the universe and does that in Saiyan saga namek and cell saga.
I really enjoyed this video. My only criticism is that in GT vegeta more than likely did train and get stronger. He just wasn't as obsessed with being stronger than Goku anymore. Focused more on his family.
This is why I don't care about Vegeta "getting the win". He needs to learn to improve for his own sake, not just to be the best. If Vegeta surpassed Goku right now that would just validate his ego.
Vegeta learning to become a team player is a lot more fitting for him.
Great Message
Goku is pure of heart, has no ego, loves his family, friends, training and fighting ... Vegeta learned to love his family, he always loved traing and fighting, but he will never have pure heart because of his ego ... Goku realy is better then Vegeta.
GT Vegeta not only did not give up on training, he is stated by Baby to be the strongest in the universe by the time he goes after his body.
😏
Amazing analysis!
Goku has natural talent which exceeds vegeta, vegeta himself said that, dbz isnt a complicated anime is simple why goku is one step ahead of vegeta, goku actually knows martial arts compared to vegeta who learnt street fighting pretty much thats the difference, even if someone has a high power level the trained fighter has an advantage in techniques.
2:03 all because of a concussion.
Yeah man, the randomness of it is just insane. Toriyama certainly made the most of his time though. He finished his magnum opus, gave us a solid continuation, and even put a good successor in place for the series. Which makes it quite different than the loss of Kentaro Miura, the creator of Berserk. Dragon Ball was about as complete as it could ever be.
Vegeta also learned how to sense ki, but never thought to exploit Freeza’s lack of the ability in his hype and underperforms as a result but still better than Piccolo
You know I used to feel like it was a bit of a scrub move that Vegeta needed Babidi for his power boost, but until you phrased it in this video, basically all the main guys get a potential unlock at some point. Goku with poison water, Gohan with guru and elder Kai, and this was just Vegeta's turn lol. I'm a little less judgemental now
didnt goku get the water to defead evil people, tao and piccolo?
gohan got both boosts to powerup and help to fight evil
vegetas power up caused the evil threat to wake up in the first place.
he killed people, forced goku to fight him and woke buu up, which then proceeded to literally destroy the earth.
lets not forget his pretentious attemp at "redeeming himself by sacrifice himself fighting buu"
for someone so prideful he sure is pety.
( i like vegeta tho)
@@noztk oh yeah, it's extremely petty and irresponsible lol. But I more so meant just the idea of needing outside sources to get a power boost generally
But Vegeta was trained by Frieza in a way, and Whis
nappa couldn’t help vegeta beat goku he had a broken back, which is why vegeta ended him
3-0
in db super vegeta is still obsessed with surpassing goku. They just did away with the original progression of vegeta character
Vegeta AND Goku are extremely competitive and always want to one-up each other. The difference is, in the original series Goku had a healthy attitude towards the rivalry, while Vegeta had an all-consuming, negative obsession, which is what led to his breakdown in the Buu saga. In Super, they both push each other to be their best selves in pursuit of greatness. I think it's a pretty natural progression from the end of Dragon Ball.
@@LifeofSlicey1 it's not natural at all vegeta just went back to his cell saga self were he is obesessed with surpassing goku. GT vegeta was much better
At this point, it's displayed as more of a friendly rivalry, rather than something Vegeta would be willing to kill everybody to achieve. And he's more chill than he's ever been. So I'd say he maintains a lot of that character growth.
@@Ghost-jq4eyCell saga vegeta was going to let Bulma and trunks die and let cell reach his perfect form. Dbs vegeta clearly loves his family more openly and tries to finish off enemies quickly.
@@Ghost-jq4eydb fans don't watch their own show part 650
14:04 Cell killed Trunks.
Also Babidi unlocking his full potential by bringing out the evil out is quite a deal breaker and not comperable to the other times people got their power unlocked. like Goku with the holy water to fight against Tao/Piccolo or Gohan with fighting against Vegeta/Freezer or against boo later on.
vegeta:
-turned himself evil to have a chance to beat goku and destroyed what he had build on earth
-forced Goku to fight him
-released Boo, whos powerlevel interupted Goku vs Vegeta fight
-KO'd Goku while he wanted to beat Boo
-LOST against boo because his pride was too big to get help from Goku
-potentially regretted his obsession with goku only when Trunks showed up
-had the audacity to ask if he will meet goku in the afterlife ..
-refused to fuse with goku while HIS Problem(boo) was threaning to kill the last remaining people(a handful at best)
-later on destroyed the potaras making fusion impossible against Boo
him willing to sacrifice himself and cease to exist against kid boo is the least he could have done AFTER he caused this pink blopp to even leave his egg
the sad part is, Cell was the one who had humbled Vegeta and made him to accept his role. But sadly fans wanted more dbz and they had to redo vegeta arc again
He didn’t get much better in super
I don’t know about all that, but Vegeta is undefeated against Goku.
Lol it's not really relevant at all to the video
@@backwardsbandit8094 >not really rel-
It is always relevant to REMIND them. One must honor the will of AT. Every day, every night, forevermore.
Goku awesome
Part of the problem of your analysis is that Vegeta has always been more powerful than Goku, at least at base. His form of training is actually better than Goku's in terms of raw power. The only thing that makes Goku stronger in a lot of cases is that, if we're comparing SSJ forms, Vegeta has SSJ2 but Goku has SSJ3...but Vegeta's SSJ2 form is actually stronger to SSJ3 Goku.
Likewise SSJG forms you have Ultra Instinct vs Blue evolution or Ultra Ego, both of which are technically more powerful than Ultra Instinct Goku.
Goku just has access to an extra form or extra help that gives him a slight boost or bonus in the end... but he is always technically weaker if you give Goku and Vegeta the same transformations.
Okay, but Goku never beats Vegeta so what's Toriyama really saying?
Goku had a number of symbolic victories that were far more devastating to Vegeta than a physical fight. Reaching Super Saiyan first and holding back during their fight in the Buu saga was far more humiliating to Vegeta than actually beating him.
@@LifeofSlicey1 "Kakarot, you did it. You actually became a Super Saiyan, you dog." He sure sounded envious.
Vegeta is on suicide watch throughout DBZ because he realises the fights with Goku never mattered, what mattered is that he was always behind Goku because he only ever fought and trained for himself
No it’s because goku is Akira favourite charcter you waisted you time with this vid💀
I mean there's also mr. Satan and piccolo
He confirmed he doesn’t like them no moré
Bro I didn’t get your message
Exactly. It's like God's favorite child. There is no explanation
His favourite character was Piccolo lol
Vegeta was just unfortunate. Goku wasnt
Goku isnt better than Vegeta anymore, with hard work brings results in the long term. Right now Vegeta would beat Goku because Ego is gonna outlast Instinct. Goku will land shots at will, but Vegeta will get stronger with every shot and Goku will run out of stamina.
Simple truth is Goku isnt better than Vegeta. Goku has lost every fight to Vegeta, hes lost more times to Villains than Vegeta and Vegeta has beaten more villains than Goku has.
Love how Vegeta fans will still cope when at the end of z Vegeta flat out admitted Goku was better than him😂
Vegeta is much more ambitious
I’ve never seen Dragon Ball, but I still watched the video to see what you’d pulled from it. Toriyama-sama would be honored.
In my day there wasn’t much anime on TV. The one I liked most was Robotech and I absolutely loved the Macross part. For background, Robotech was a US series that took three Japanese animes and smashed them together into one story line, with Super Dimension Fortress Macross forming “season one” of Robotech. I rewatched Macross in its original form as an adult, and I was shocked at the depth (and darkness) of later episodes. There was a lot more to it than I realized as a kid.
My daughter, meanwhile, got to grow up with Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell, and plenty other amazing series. She’s a huge anime nerd and I envy the access she has to all those shows on-demand. TV, for me, was “take what’s given to you…and it’s probably another Scooby Do re-run.”
Thanks Josh. If you ever decide to check out Dragon Ball, I'd recommend the anime Dragon Ball Kai or reading the manga. It's still awesome, but it's hard to "get" the original show if you have no nostalgia for it. There's something really cool about that period in the 80s/90s when anime was super niche. From what I can tell, it was like this secret, mysterious thing that you could only find on bootleg vhs tapes. Anime started to explode when I was a kid. Dragon Ball was a major part of that, along with Sailor Moon, Pokemon, and adult shows like Cowboy Bebop. It blows me away how mainstream its become in the past 10 years or so. Anime movies of series like Demon Slayer are even doing well at the boxoffice now.
Your American ? In France ,we got Dragon Ball in 88 while in the US ,they got it in 98 ,it's Dragon Ball that popularized Anime (Along some other Anime like Captain Tsubasa ,Hokuto no Ken ,City Hunter ,all the Magical Girls series ,in the countries who got Dragon Ball in the late 80's/early 90's while for those countries that got it in the late 90's ,it's what popularized Anime along with One Piece ,Naruto ,Bleach ,Cowboy Bebop)