The early Harley's were simple machines you could keep on the road with your Dad's Craftsmen tool box. Now it takes an MIT Electrical Engineer to repair the damn thing. Who needs a stereo and a TV screen on a Motorcycle?
Simple demographics per their aging / dying customer base. They turned away/turned off potential new customers for many years when they were popular. They are circling the drain.
I built my own. Got tired of Harley cheating on mechanical design. Pressed cranks. Auto tensioners. Cheaper trans bearings. Cheaper crank bearings. Still love them tho. Yes. EVO’s rock.
The issues with Harley are deeper than what you've pointed out. Harley needs to expand in some way to pick up additional riders. A younger rider base. Today Harley riders are aging out, and the bikes don't appeal to average riders. Harley may be number 1 in America, but their like number 4 or 5 worldwide. Harley sales is a fraction of the bikes sold by the larger motorcycle companies. If Harley cannot get more people to want their products, and sale a product that more people want, and can afford Harley will fail. We live in a global economy not an American one. Changes that Harley has made to their motorcycles seems kind of late coming to the party, and the changes are not supported by their core riders. This really puts Harley in an awkward position. Your core base doesn't love your changes, and even with the changes new riders are not flocking to Harley. So will Harley survive? Maybe as a brand, but not as a motorcycle company. They've pivoted to late and the other companies, are having Harley for dinner.
Possibly but again everyone always says younger riders don't want harleys. I feel like the old guy sometimes at events at 33 with my harley compared to what I see.
I disagree because Harley has tried to appeal to younger riders, but they are not interested in Harleys or riding in general. Every bike Harley comes out with aimed at younger riders fails, most recently the Pan America and the hideous Sportster line. The thing about younger people is they do get older(lol). Most Harley owners are around 35 which is about the age when guys get into Harleys anyways. To be honest I am 52 owned Hds for 20 years and will not buy anything newer than a 2020 IMO their bikes have gone to complete trash trying to appeal to a demographic that doesn't want them
@@HDR20 The average age of a harley new customer is 45. Much older. The issue with Harley goes back to their tried and true formula of air cooled V twin. They are underpowered compared to the competition, and that design while it is the trademark format for Harley, is long in the tooth. If you pivot from your formula that is tried and true, and riders don't want your product, you are the problem. The reality is any manufacturer has to stay on top of market trends or they will die. Harley rode their signature bike trend to far, and now even much smaller bikes can out do a Harley. Harley's failing because they waited and waited to innovate, and now the market does not like their attempts at innovation. Will Harley be able to appease the customer with a product that is not based on their signature, before they go bankrupt is the question? This is at the root of the problem. I always wanted a Harley, and I have just started researching buying a motorcycle. My conclusion after short research is if I want to ride a bike, and not pay extra for the name don't buy a Harley. If I want a bike that runs, buy one of the Asian bike manufacturers. If I want a mid level cc bike with power don't buy a Harley. At the end of the day Harley is a manufacturer with a dying brand and it's signature the V Twin, is not the best there is anymore. Harley is the blackberry of the motorcycle world. Blackberry was on top, and in the end tried to innovate to get other customers, and they did it to late, because they waited until customer's were leaving. Harley sales are down and unless they can appease customers to the brand through new products that are innovative, and long lasting, they will fail. This is completely a case of poor leadership, and resting on your success, while the market learned that there were other better alternatives. I doubt I will ever own a Harley.
I agree but think that the big failure is that they had several opportunities to innovate but instead chose to take their ball and go home. What they were able to do was succeed in marketing but your image needs to stay relevant which is hard to do when you forget your customer base that got you there.
Harley was lucky to ride the wave of the cruiser craze of the 90's into the 2000's, the TV shows like Motorcycle Mania and other tv shows got guys in their 30's to 50's riding as these guys were looking for something to do. The cruiser craze moved into the bagger craze. Fast foward to the present the older guys retired from riding. There are many reasons why Harley is in decline. The younger generation not interested in motorcycles. Cost of living with inflation skyrocked. The price of Harleys, parts and service continued to rise year after year making it impractical and unaffordable for many people.
@@kennv7566 no true on the younger generation not interested in motorcycles they just have better cheaper options then the people in their 50s did at the same age
@@wretchednation3557 Good video you covered many points. Sadly, the sport of motorcycling is declining for many reasons. I'm 60 and still ride, I've enjoyed bikes since I was a teen.
@@kennv7566hardly ever see kids on dirt bikes anymore.when I was a kid we did chores, got good grades, stayed out of trouble and did anything else we had to do to keep riding which carried over into adulthood.kids today get excited about sitting in a dark room with a PlayStation.
harley needs to get back to its roots. simple mechanical, gas bikes. they should make a sub 5k 777 with no options in black only. would be the most sold bike ever
@wretchednation3557 yeah I'm angry to grew up with Harley, I own a Buell thunderbolt. It's totaled . Still though Harley isn't listening to it's customers. We can't afford their bikes. They make stuff we don't want. Treat their dealers like they aren't somewhat responsible for how things have went . I mean there's so many reasons. To not buy a Harley, and only a few to buy one.
I wouldn't say leaps and bounds better. More power yes but the quality fit/finish is terrible. Quality went down after 2018/2019. Look at the parts used the 24 is Chinese crap. There are 30-something dealers in my state and all of them are dead, events with small turnouts, and most dealerships are owned by Car dealers with multiple locations. It isn't what it used to be
@@HDR20 it is very true a lot of dealers are dying out because the culture of your local Harley shop dosnt hold up anymore. All the younger crowd is buying used Harley's and going to independent shops or doing things themselves. There is no reason to ride to Harley for coffee on a Saturday.
And this is why I bought an Indian and never looked back. It’s a solid bike, and I prefer the culture of Indian motorcycles over Harley Davidson. I don’t like the direction Harley is moving in.
The people complaining about lack of features and speed on harleys would never ride a harley anyways, theyre ripping on harley bikes to make fun of harley riders not for constructive criticism.
Harley has no problem selling an older bike. But the thing that pisses me off is they won't work on them because their mechanics don't know how to read a older service manual and the fact that corporate has made the parts obsolete.
They are building bikes that cost 30,000 to 50,000 dollars and are not that good. Engine with bad oil pump,brakes that are not that good and after you buy the bike you need to put in 3 to 5 thousand to get it right
They have become so Over Priced, Dealers are unhelpful, newer bikes are full of Import Parts from India and China. Even the aftermarket has become so Over Priced, that it's a joke. After three new bikes, a Road King and two Road Glides, I'm never buying another one.
@@VitoVisintini of course new bikes are full of import parts. No one can afford a full American made vehicle. We don't manufacture as a country we assemble. That's not a Harley problem.
I don’t know what you all expect when you buy a motorcycle from a t-shirt company. Harleys are emotional purchases. Emotions are illogical. Get something from Japan and spend your time riding not wrenching.
Love all of my FJR's Gen 1,2 and 3.and 0-60 in 2.6 seconds,0-100 in 6.7 and low 10 second quarter miles at 130 mph with a top speed of 155 on a bagger straight off the showroom floor without hurting it is fun too.
@ I suppose if you’re riding it for that god-awful Harley sound with an open exhaust…nothing. But if you want a big cruiser style bike that is smooth and reliable…a Kawasaki Vulcan 1800 or find a Honda VTX 1800.
that was everyone's comment 10 years ago and now everyone says to much tech. back to my point of Harley is never gonna make everyone happy so don't try.
@@wretchednation3557 the problem is the tech they use sucks. I've had five Harleys since 2000. My last was a 2019 Street Glide Special. The GPS software is so bad it couldn't find its way out of the parking lot. The stereo had apple, but not android car play. The controls were clunky and not user friendly. Every major head unit has apple and android, XM and sat GPS. You can buy a base model and add in a aftermarket head unit and it will work a million times better. They sell products that some dealers say will void the warranty because it's performance. It's not too much tech, it's just shitty. You walk into most Harley's and typically you are ignored. They are failing because a v select group can afford 40K bikes , the rest can get the financing and not afford it and some just can't and do. I should have just kept my 2000 FLSTS and TomTom.
This is what happens when your CEO has no concept of American heritage and wants to be a “boutique” dealer. I would not be surprised if he is pricing the bikes out to bring in his crappy electric motorcycles…No Thank You on that!
I will stick with my older bikes, I do not need more power with the same or smaller tank, I can ride 400 miles on my older ones and they are fast enough, too much computers not the way to ride, I say people have forgotten how to ride. without their gps they can go nowhere even in their cars. I work on all my own bikes
@@wretchednation3557 then you have problems can you get anywhere with out it? the whole point is to just get on a ride clear your mind I never take a cell with me and I spent a year on the road people are too laisy
No cellphone? Did you watch Wild Hogs to many times? Cellphone is just as important as a tool kit, tire repair kit, and first aid kit. I've been riding for 30 years.
I think the way you come across in the video/comments is the way the Harley decision makers are approaching their downfall. "It's x that is killing Harley" "X is solved and it couldn't be because of Y" Then some random marketing guy who doesn't even ride makes the decision. Good luck with that attitude.
@@tendertuna9157 I was brining up reasons that I feel no one ever talks about. The main reason being that 20 year old Harley's today are very solid and great deals making it harder than ever for Harley to sell new.
Harley Davidson Evo engine was the most reliable engine that didn't put out much Power. Cam was gear driven, and to gear drive the camshaft the crankshaft tolerances have to be within 5 thousands or engine will tear itself apart. This is where chains come in. Chains are very forgiving and tolerances can be 10-20 thousands off without any problems. Harley twin cam engines put out more power than the single cam EVO but would put out even more if gear driven. Harley's answer was to go back to the single cam EVO design and throw some more CC's and 4 valve heads on and STILL Chain drive the cam instead of gear drive so tolerances didn't have to be so tight 🤦🏻♂️ Harley davidson has been designing engines based on costs instead of best design. Throw in the WOKE pencil pushers on the top floor and you have a problem 🤦🏻♂️🤦♀️🤦
@@wretchednation3557 True-up twin cam crankshafts and gear the cams and please someone design a 4valve head. There's plenty of twin cams with less than 10k on them for dirt cheap and plenty of bike shops to build them 😉
The new bikes suck. They sound like shit unless you spend 1000 bucks on exhaust. Takes an hour to change a battery. Got rid of the dyna. Hey you know those bikes that everybody loves.. let's stop making those. Got rid of the sportster.. they were just enough to get young guys hooked on harley and come back for a bigger one in a year when they got bored with it.
The sportster had to go. If you bought a new sportster past like 09 you over paid like crazy. I will say the revolution engines do sound kinda weak but at least they make up for it in power.
Harley has never been competitive with the metric bikes from Japan. Reagan had to step in in the early 80s and basically tie one of Honda’s hands behind their backs with displacement rules and all sorts of other import tricks, and all it did was force the Japanese companies to take another quantum leap in innovation while Harley enjoyed sitting still and capitalizing on a lot of earned heritage and just a little bit of unearned nationalism.
@ you don’t need to look at spec sheets, just look at value-for-money and sales and thousands of miles ridden. As the joke goes, you could buy 2-5 real motorcycles for the price of one new Harley, 10-30 if you’re shopping used.
Jochen Zeitz is great at steering your textile company, not so much at steering your motorcycle company. They are selling the lower end bikes for about $3K over what they should be and around $10K over on the top end. They are aiming to be a boutique brand for doctors and lawyers when they should be marketing themselves as a working class bike. How many doctors and lawyers do you know that ride bikes (I do know a few) versus truck drivers, construction workers, and other working class people? Emissions are killing all bikes pretty much, that’s not just a H-D thing. The list and the opinions vary, but why Harley is failing is a multifaceted reason where there is no one single point that sticks out more than the other. At the end of the day, corporate leadership and vision drive the brand, and it seems like they’re trying to drive it off of a cliff. Let’s not get started on the stealerships.
@@lowcountryrob170 yes there are many reasons I wanted to bring up some reasons that I believe have nothing to do with leadership and problems that no one talks about
I lean more towards the no more tech train of thought. However, it is not because I don't like the tech, or because I don't think it should be an option. I want Harley to go crazy tech. Those bikes have their place. I also want the option to not have a ridiculously large screen on my dash, and my riding modes I would rather tune myself via my wrist. I like a more raw riding experience, and I like a refined ride as well. It depends on the day. There is a good balance, but that is found in what they make optional rather than standard.
@@wretchednation3557 If you say so. However, statistics show that the average age of motorcyclists in general is higher than that, & H-D riders even higher. Look at most vids on the tube here. Mostly grey haired or bald, with the requisite goatee or bushy beard, & beer belly. Perhaps you live in an area where the youth are more affluent than your average American neighborhood.
@ it's just called the performance scene. It's more about riding hard and fast and picking up at the drop of a hat to ride 500 miles. The younger people are there they just don't buy new. You can get an awesome 15-20 year old bike and cross the country no problem. It was much harder to do that 20 years ago.
@@wretchednation3557cross the country on a worn out Harley no problem 😆😆😆😂 BWWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAHAHA 😆 ROTFLMAO 😆😆😆😂 BWWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAHAHA
Too expensive, not made for tge Blue Collar, middle-class and they abandoned the Sportster with the abomination Nightster! Go buy an Indian if you want am American bike!
@@thomasobrien5976 for years a large group of people said Harley's where outdated and slow and boring. Now I hear a lot of people saying they want old school Harley. My point of Harley can't listen to people because they will never make everyone happy.
Easy answer.. Harley is a global company that happens to make bikes in america. Instead of an American company that makes bikes for the world. They ruin good ideas such as 60 degree V twins and full water cooling while making weird tech demo bikes like the Vrod and pan america. Both bikes suffer too many bad ideas. While they also make bikes that are "Dealer service only".. Skyline operating system is poorly done as well. Corporate shareholders are your real reason why nothing will change. They will squeeze every drop of profit and dump the stock to move on to another. Maybe HD gets taken private again and becomes a bike maker with offerings for all Americans and the World.
The early Harley's were simple machines you could keep on the road with your Dad's Craftsmen tool box. Now it takes an MIT Electrical Engineer to repair the damn thing. Who needs a stereo and a TV screen on a Motorcycle?
You don't have to get a stereo and screen if you don't want one. Yes bikes are not carbureted anymore not just Harleys.
Simple demographics per their aging / dying customer base. They turned away/turned off potential new customers for many years when they were popular. They are circling the drain.
simple.
OVERPRICED!
you're welcome.
How much should they be?
I built my own. Got tired of Harley cheating on mechanical design. Pressed cranks. Auto tensioners. Cheaper trans bearings. Cheaper crank bearings. Still love them tho. Yes. EVO’s rock.
@@westcoast3595 do wish we could kind of order off a menu and get or not get what we want
The issues with Harley are deeper than what you've pointed out. Harley needs to expand in some way to pick up additional riders. A younger rider base. Today Harley riders are aging out, and the bikes don't appeal to average riders. Harley may be number 1 in America, but their like number 4 or 5 worldwide. Harley sales is a fraction of the bikes sold by the larger motorcycle companies. If Harley cannot get more people to want their products, and sale a product that more people want, and can afford Harley will fail. We live in a global economy not an American one. Changes that Harley has made to their motorcycles seems kind of late coming to the party, and the changes are not supported by their core riders. This really puts Harley in an awkward position. Your core base doesn't love your changes, and even with the changes new riders are not flocking to Harley. So will Harley survive? Maybe as a brand, but not as a motorcycle company. They've pivoted to late and the other companies, are having Harley for dinner.
Possibly but again everyone always says younger riders don't want harleys. I feel like the old guy sometimes at events at 33 with my harley compared to what I see.
I disagree because Harley has tried to appeal to younger riders, but they are not interested in Harleys or riding in general. Every bike Harley comes out with aimed at younger riders fails, most recently the Pan America and the hideous Sportster line. The thing about younger people is they do get older(lol). Most Harley owners are around 35 which is about the age when guys get into Harleys anyways. To be honest I am 52 owned Hds for 20 years and will not buy anything newer than a 2020 IMO their bikes have gone to complete trash trying to appeal to a demographic that doesn't want them
@@HDR20 The average age of a harley new customer is 45. Much older. The issue with Harley goes back to their tried and true formula of air cooled V twin. They are underpowered compared to the competition, and that design while it is the trademark format for Harley, is long in the tooth. If you pivot from your formula that is tried and true, and riders don't want your product, you are the problem. The reality is any manufacturer has to stay on top of market trends or they will die. Harley rode their signature bike trend to far, and now even much smaller bikes can out do a Harley. Harley's failing because they waited and waited to innovate, and now the market does not like their attempts at innovation. Will Harley be able to appease the customer with a product that is not based on their signature, before they go bankrupt is the question? This is at the root of the problem. I always wanted a Harley, and I have just started researching buying a motorcycle. My conclusion after short research is if I want to ride a bike, and not pay extra for the name don't buy a Harley. If I want a bike that runs, buy one of the Asian bike manufacturers. If I want a mid level cc bike with power don't buy a Harley. At the end of the day Harley is a manufacturer with a dying brand and it's signature the V Twin, is not the best there is anymore. Harley is the blackberry of the motorcycle world. Blackberry was on top, and in the end tried to innovate to get other customers, and they did it to late, because they waited until customer's were leaving. Harley sales are down and unless they can appease customers to the brand through new products that are innovative, and long lasting, they will fail. This is completely a case of poor leadership, and resting on your success, while the market learned that there were other better alternatives. I doubt I will ever own a Harley.
@@galley3175 you are correct and correct on the age as well I fat figured lol
I agree but think that the big failure is that they had several opportunities to innovate but instead chose to take their ball and go home. What they were able to do was succeed in marketing but your image needs to stay relevant which is hard to do when you forget your customer base that got you there.
Harley was lucky to ride the wave of the cruiser craze of the 90's into the 2000's, the TV shows like Motorcycle Mania and other tv shows got guys in their 30's to 50's riding as these guys were looking for something to do. The cruiser craze moved into the bagger craze. Fast foward to the present the older guys retired from riding. There are many reasons why Harley is in decline. The younger generation not interested in motorcycles. Cost of living with inflation skyrocked. The price of Harleys, parts and service continued to rise year after year making it impractical and unaffordable for many people.
@@kennv7566 no true on the younger generation not interested in motorcycles they just have better cheaper options then the people in their 50s did at the same age
@@wretchednation3557 Good video you covered many points. Sadly, the sport of motorcycling is declining for many reasons. I'm 60 and still ride, I've enjoyed bikes since I was a teen.
@@kennv7566hardly ever see kids on dirt bikes anymore.when I was a kid we did chores, got good grades, stayed out of trouble and did anything else we had to do to keep riding which carried over into adulthood.kids today get excited about sitting in a dark room with a PlayStation.
I think it's a good take. Of course it's too complicated to ever really see, but your take seems very sound. Good job.
Appreciate it.
harley needs to get back to its roots. simple mechanical, gas bikes. they should make a sub 5k 777 with no options in black only. would be the most sold bike ever
@@technicolortony3091 a sub 5k bike is no longer an option
Even the crow in the background said "F HARLEY"😅😅
I wanted a street fighter.
Harley teased me with one then decided not to make it . WTF
@@Optimus-x7f i know. I forgot about that and now I'm angry you reminded me lol.
@wretchednation3557 yeah I'm angry to grew up with Harley, I own a Buell thunderbolt. It's totaled . Still though Harley isn't listening to it's customers. We can't afford their bikes. They make stuff we don't want. Treat their dealers like they aren't somewhat responsible for how things have went . I mean there's so many reasons. To not buy a Harley, and only a few to buy one.
@ only buy a Harley if you want one. I like raw style and plenty of aftermarket support. There isn't any other option for those.
My friend bought a new Sportster and I drove off and left him on my girlfriends 650 Bergman scooter 😂😆😆 he sold it 😅😅😅
Appreciate all the comments dude. It helps push the video out.
I wouldn't say leaps and bounds better. More power yes but the quality fit/finish is terrible. Quality went down after 2018/2019. Look at the parts used the 24 is Chinese crap. There are 30-something dealers in my state and all of them are dead, events with small turnouts, and most dealerships are owned by Car dealers with multiple locations. It isn't what it used to be
@@HDR20 it is very true a lot of dealers are dying out because the culture of your local Harley shop dosnt hold up anymore. All the younger crowd is buying used Harley's and going to independent shops or doing things themselves. There is no reason to ride to Harley for coffee on a Saturday.
Sweet RG. Last HD I bought is a Dyna. And the last HD I'll ever buy is THAT Dyna. HD will not work on my "57 FL (and I wouldn't ask them to).
Appreciate it and cool.
And this is why I bought an Indian and never looked back. It’s a solid bike, and I prefer the culture of Indian motorcycles over Harley Davidson. I don’t like the direction Harley is moving in.
@@ClotildeJimenezArt never cared for the style of Polaris. Maybe one day but once they find their own culture they will be better.
The people complaining about lack of features and speed on harleys would never ride a harley anyways, theyre ripping on harley bikes to make fun of harley riders not for constructive criticism.
I can agree with that.
Harley has no problem selling an older bike. But the thing that pisses me off is they won't work on them because their mechanics don't know how to read a older service manual and the fact that corporate has made the parts obsolete.
It does really suck that Harley shops won't work on bikes older then 10 years but hey that leaves a lot of room for your local independent shop.
@@wretchednation3557Yeah, your absolutely correct.
They are building bikes that cost 30,000 to 50,000 dollars and are not that good. Engine with bad oil pump,brakes that are not that good and after you buy the bike you need to put in 3 to 5 thousand to get it right
You're not wrong. People sure do but alot of them though
You're not wrong. People sure do but alot of them though
They have become so Over Priced, Dealers are unhelpful, newer bikes are full of Import Parts from India and China. Even the aftermarket has become so Over Priced, that it's a joke. After three new bikes, a Road King and two Road Glides, I'm never buying another one.
@@VitoVisintini of course new bikes are full of import parts. No one can afford a full American made vehicle. We don't manufacture as a country we assemble. That's not a Harley problem.
I don’t know what you all expect when you buy a motorcycle from a t-shirt company.
Harleys are emotional purchases. Emotions are illogical.
Get something from Japan and spend your time riding not wrenching.
Would does japan offer in terms of my dyna?
Love all of my FJR's Gen 1,2 and 3.and 0-60 in 2.6 seconds,0-100 in 6.7 and low 10 second quarter miles at 130 mph with a top speed of 155 on a bagger straight off the showroom floor without hurting it is fun too.
@ I suppose if you’re riding it for that god-awful Harley sound with an open exhaust…nothing.
But if you want a big cruiser style bike that is smooth and reliable…a Kawasaki Vulcan 1800 or find a Honda VTX 1800.
Simple: Get Woke, Go Broke!
everything I laid out had nothing to do with this.
Yesterday's tech, future prices.
that was everyone's comment 10 years ago and now everyone says to much tech. back to my point of Harley is never gonna make everyone happy so don't try.
@@wretchednation3557 the problem is the tech they use sucks. I've had five Harleys since 2000. My last was a 2019 Street Glide Special. The GPS software is so bad it couldn't find its way out of the parking lot. The stereo had apple, but not android car play. The controls were clunky and not user friendly. Every major head unit has apple and android, XM and sat GPS. You can buy a base model and add in a aftermarket head unit and it will work a million times better. They sell products that some dealers say will void the warranty because it's performance. It's not too much tech, it's just shitty. You walk into most Harley's and typically you are ignored. They are failing because a v select group can afford 40K bikes , the rest can get the financing and not afford it and some just can't and do. I should have just kept my 2000 FLSTS and TomTom.
This is what happens when your CEO has no concept of American heritage and wants to be a “boutique” dealer. I would not be surprised if he is pricing the bikes out to bring in his crappy electric motorcycles…No Thank You on that!
The new baggers which are the main focus of pricing are cheaper then they have been in like 5 years.
all the the other brands are cheaper, indian is having the same problem as harley
@@WhisperingWolf1 I agree
I will stick with my older bikes, I do not need more power with the same or smaller tank, I can ride 400 miles on my older ones and they are fast enough, too much computers not the way to ride, I say people have forgotten how to ride. without their gps they can go nowhere even in their cars. I work on all my own bikes
@@WhisperingWolf1 I would suffer without gps lol
@@wretchednation3557 then you have problems can you get anywhere with out it? the whole point is to just get on a ride clear your mind I never take a cell with me and I spent a year on the road people are too laisy
@ lol lazy* ok boomer. Nothing like telling people if they don't live life exactly how you think they should they are wrong.
@@wretchednation3557 63 here riding all my life
No cellphone?
Did you watch Wild Hogs to many times?
Cellphone is just as important as a tool kit, tire repair kit, and first aid kit.
I've been riding for 30 years.
I think the way you come across in the video/comments is the way the Harley decision makers are approaching their downfall. "It's x that is killing Harley" "X is solved and it couldn't be because of Y" Then some random marketing guy who doesn't even ride makes the decision. Good luck with that attitude.
@@tendertuna9157 I was brining up reasons that I feel no one ever talks about. The main reason being that 20 year old Harley's today are very solid and great deals making it harder than ever for Harley to sell new.
Harley Davidson Evo engine was the most reliable engine that didn't put out much Power. Cam was gear driven, and to gear drive the camshaft the crankshaft tolerances have to be within 5 thousands or engine will tear itself apart. This is where chains come in. Chains are very forgiving and tolerances can be 10-20 thousands off without any problems. Harley twin cam engines put out more power than the single cam EVO but would put out even more if gear driven. Harley's answer was to go back to the single cam EVO design and throw some more CC's and 4 valve heads on and STILL Chain drive the cam instead of gear drive so tolerances didn't have to be so tight 🤦🏻♂️
Harley davidson has been designing engines based on costs instead of best design. Throw in the WOKE pencil pushers on the top floor and you have a problem 🤦🏻♂️🤦♀️🤦
Been waiting on the evo comment.
@@wretchednation3557 True-up twin cam crankshafts and gear the cams and please someone design a 4valve head. There's plenty of twin cams with less than 10k on them for dirt cheap and plenty of bike shops to build them 😉
The new bikes suck. They sound like shit unless you spend 1000 bucks on exhaust. Takes an hour to change a battery. Got rid of the dyna. Hey you know those bikes that everybody loves.. let's stop making those. Got rid of the sportster.. they were just enough to get young guys hooked on harley and come back for a bigger one in a year when they got bored with it.
The sportster had to go. If you bought a new sportster past like 09 you over paid like crazy. I will say the revolution engines do sound kinda weak but at least they make up for it in power.
Yeah, the battery position is nuts. Nothing like adding to the misery of having to change a battery like making it overly difficult to do.
Sound like shit? Like worse than usual?
Harley has never been competitive with the metric bikes from Japan. Reagan had to step in in the early 80s and basically tie one of Honda’s hands behind their backs with displacement rules and all sorts of other import tricks, and all it did was force the Japanese companies to take another quantum leap in innovation while Harley enjoyed sitting still and capitalizing on a lot of earned heritage and just a little bit of unearned nationalism.
I dont think most or any harley buyers look at spec sheets and compare them to honda.
@ you don’t need to look at spec sheets, just look at value-for-money and sales and thousands of miles ridden. As the joke goes, you could buy 2-5 real motorcycles for the price of one new Harley, 10-30 if you’re shopping used.
Jochen Zeitz is great at steering your textile company, not so much at steering your motorcycle company. They are selling the lower end bikes for about $3K over what they should be and around $10K over on the top end. They are aiming to be a boutique brand for doctors and lawyers when they should be marketing themselves as a working class bike. How many doctors and lawyers do you know that ride bikes (I do know a few) versus truck drivers, construction workers, and other working class people? Emissions are killing all bikes pretty much, that’s not just a H-D thing. The list and the opinions vary, but why Harley is failing is a multifaceted reason where there is no one single point that sticks out more than the other. At the end of the day, corporate leadership and vision drive the brand, and it seems like they’re trying to drive it off of a cliff. Let’s not get started on the stealerships.
@@lowcountryrob170 yes there are many reasons I wanted to bring up some reasons that I believe have nothing to do with leadership and problems that no one talks about
I'll race you title for title right now on any of my FJR's
I lean more towards the no more tech train of thought. However, it is not because I don't like the tech, or because I don't think it should be an option. I want Harley to go crazy tech. Those bikes have their place. I also want the option to not have a ridiculously large screen on my dash, and my riding modes I would rather tune myself via my wrist. I like a more raw riding experience, and I like a refined ride as well. It depends on the day. There is a good balance, but that is found in what they make optional rather than standard.
Totally agree. I do prefer the more stripped down version of bikes. More raw.
They still have bikes like that. The 2024 FXLRS has the large factory 117 c.i. motor but in a stripped down Softail frame.
@ oh for sure not saying all of them are teched out. That's one big reason why I like Harley over other options because they still feel the most raw.
Young people don't want land barges & couldn't afford them if they did. Just like they wouldn't want a Crown Vic or Buick Roadmaster to drive.
all the events i go to most the people rocking harleys are late 20s to early 40s
@@wretchednation3557 If you say so. However, statistics show that the average age of motorcyclists in general is higher than that, & H-D riders even higher. Look at most vids on the tube here. Mostly grey haired or bald, with the requisite goatee or bushy beard, & beer belly. Perhaps you live in an area where the youth are more affluent than your average American neighborhood.
@ it's just called the performance scene. It's more about riding hard and fast and picking up at the drop of a hat to ride 500 miles. The younger people are there they just don't buy new. You can get an awesome 15-20 year old bike and cross the country no problem. It was much harder to do that 20 years ago.
My neighbor is 26 and just bought a brand new ninja 600 for like 7 grand and couldn't be happier.
@@wretchednation3557cross the country on a worn out Harley no problem 😆😆😆😂 BWWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAHAHA 😆 ROTFLMAO 😆😆😆😂 BWWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAHAHA
So Harley is hiring tubers to do their advertising now.got it.
It's because their new bikes look like shit and not just recently. Best of harley was mid to late 90's to mid 2000's.
Too expensive, not made for tge Blue Collar, middle-class and they abandoned the Sportster with the abomination Nightster!
Go buy an Indian if you want am American bike!
The sportster had to go
"Leaps and bounds" I do not agree with that no one wants more tech..its a motorcycle
@@thomasobrien5976 for years a large group of people said Harley's where outdated and slow and boring. Now I hear a lot of people saying they want old school Harley. My point of Harley can't listen to people because they will never make everyone happy.
Big slow over priced, and more BROHS are riding Harleys. .
cool
Good evening friends
@@DallasFM how are you
@wretchednation3557 good 👍. Just watching it rain. Lol
@ I feel you on that. Thanks for stopping by and watching our videos.
This is nothing really, they have survived two world wars and the great depression.
Easy answer..
Harley is a global company that happens to make bikes in america.
Instead of an American company that makes bikes for the world.
They ruin good ideas such as 60 degree V twins and full water cooling while making weird tech demo bikes like the Vrod and pan america. Both bikes suffer too many bad ideas. While they also make bikes that are "Dealer service only".. Skyline operating system is poorly done as well.
Corporate shareholders are your real reason why nothing will change. They will squeeze every drop of profit and dump the stock to move on to another.
Maybe HD gets taken private again and becomes a bike maker with offerings for all Americans and the World.
@@Eileen-e8f I can agree with this.
the truth is harley knows their problem young rides buy one and stop riding in 3 years. read my other post
@@WhisperingWolf1 luckily this is not the case or at least in the performance scene.
Hurley will be bankrupt
hurley surfbrand will buy it