The Mofi Debacle! Did Mobile Fidelity Lie?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2022
- The Mofi Debacle! Did Mobile Fidelity Lie?
Hey everybody!
Remember back when digital CDs were the rage? There was no turning back, when digitally recorded, and then digitally remastered gems were released at almost a daily rate!
Yet every year in the past decade actual record albums have outsold CDs! When and how did this happen? And more importantly, WHY?
But before we could even get comfortable with that bit of changing tide, we hear that some of the amazing albums that were remastered in analog, WEREN’T remastered in analog after all!
What does that mean for the burgeoning record collecting that’s been going on for the past decade?
Have we been hoodwinked? Or is there another side to this ever twisting and turning tale?
Join me in my video tonight as I explore the various cans of worms that Mofi has either intentionally opened, or at least sneakily opened while we weren’t looking!
Link to The ‘In Groove’
• BREAKING NEWS: ALL Mob...
Link to poetryonplastic
• Did Mobile Fidelity Li...
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Hope you enjoy,
Michael Noland
The Bottom Line
Great channel , Mike ! I bought 6 of those 1 Step releases and other releases . I think MOFI rode the "all analog" lie to the bank . Did you know they would do "limited runs" to add to the "All analog" facade ? Make it look like they could only use the master tapes SMH . They could just sell those DSD file to us . I heard they go for way less than $50 . I like both Analog and Digital . Digital can sound great . I wanted all analog cause it sounds the best on vinyl IMO .
You know Jesse, you’ve opened up a whole new can of worms here!
This is clearly a matter of keeping album costs at a premium! The Music Industry has done this from day one!
The first company to do exactly what you suggest here, will be ahead of the curb, and yet will make quite a profit based on increased sales! Hmmm!
Who woulda ever thought???👌😉❤️
Right now, High Definition Tape Transfers sells a 4xDSD of Somethin' Else for $26. The Mofi One-step uses a 4xDSD digital file for the lacquer cutting. I had it on preorder, but not anymore.
In 1983 already digital audio was very near to being completely transparent. Analog audio never has been and never will. Audiophiles constantly confuse what sounds pleasing (to them, that is) and what sounds transparent to the source. As long as audiophiles buy into the technically misguided anti-digital propaganda we are going to see more of these storms in the teapot.
Digital gets better almost weekly these days N!❤️
@@MichaelNoland-TheBottomLine the digital output of the transducers or the digital storage formats?
Yep! and just wait until they find out that many audio engineers not only prefer digital sound in 2022 but still prefer a 44.1 sampling rate over 48k or 96k because it sounds “more musical” lol. How many now classic records from the late 90s - early 2000s we take for granted as being analog were actually recorded to 16 bit DAT machines? Early White Stripes, Elliott Smith- Basement on a Hill, Neutral Milk Hotel - Aeroplane Over the Sea off the top of my head. Bob Dylan won an Oscar in 2001 for a song recorded to a DAT.
It was actually Michael 45 that started the questioning. I give In Groove credit for actually following up by talking to the company
Excellent video but, wait… another Michael???
I know! When does it ever end?
You’ve got a channel, btw! You’ve got a great pair of ears! I’ve learned a lot with your videos, brother!
It seems ironic that during the cd craze audiophiles would look for a DDD sign on the back cover and grin with delight. CD releases from Dire Straits, Steely Dan and Ry Cooder were deemed to be masterpieces as a result.
Absolutely, Lex!
Even more ironic is that Brothers in Arms isn’t technically DDD since it was mixed in analog then re-digitized.
This is the most reasoned video on the subject I’ve seen. Thanks for your input on the issue!
So glad that you are feeling better and posting, Michael!! 🤗
Thanx, Helene! Nice to hear from you! Always!
thanks for the Mofi info, Mike. I am 67 years young and back in the 70`s, i attended a recordig course that taught Analog recording on 16 track fader boards. After i finished that course up in Chilicoth, Ohio. Digital recording msde the scene. Fleetwood Mac`s album was the first digital album, i believe. I never went back to learn the Digital recording process. I actually never pursued a recording career as planned. I just went back to working Textiles here in Alabama. Thank you once again for a great channel and Keep On Truckin, Bro. P. A. J.acobs
Hey P.A..! Like you, I’ve had to work a real J-O-B while flirting with the music industry all my life!
I’m 67 also, and frankly I’ve had a marvelous life skirting the edges of the industry, all along raising a family, and actually pay the bills, brother!
A suggestion: Brother, do yourself a favor and start re-learning to record even digitally, if you haven’t already done so, just as a hobby if nothing else!
The curve isn’t that insurmountable! After all you yourself said it, you’re only 67 years young!
Just like me, bro!
Old recording guy nearly same age here in decatur, al.
Glad you're doing well. I kinda miss the days when I'd buy a few albums, throw them on the stackable turntable, listen to side(s) one of 5 or 6 albums, turn them over and listen to side(s) two and LOVE it. I can still listen to an entire album before some "audiophiles" can clean their "vinyl".
I used to do that, Ray! What a way to Rock a day away, brother!
Ray C - Ever have the records stacked accidentally drop and potentially damage the needle or record? A record dropping down on another record wouldn’t eventually scuff up the records and cause surface noise?
All the record cleaning in the world by a “audiophile” can’t reverse the scuffs and surface noise possible created by turntables that stack records
@@cirenosnor5768 of course they got scuffed! But, that's not his point, stack'em up and listen the hell out of'em! Too many scratches? Go buy another copy (or just get used to the pops and skips... I had a copy of th ed Allman Bros Eat A Peach and it developed a skip in one of the tracks and I got "used to it"... decades later when I acquired the CD and that section came up without the skip I thought "oh yeaaah, I forgot that's the way it should sound!!" 😆), most of us are not audiophiles. Am I an audiophile? No! Do I love the music I listen to? Yes!!
Please continue making videos on this subject.
Will do, George! He’s so much to cover!👌😉❤️
More videos about the “Steps” process!!! Great video, regards!
Glad your feeling better, good luck with future videos.
Thanx, DaddyBog! Feeling stronger every day!
Glad you are doing better. Great episode, Michael. ✌️❤️🇨🇦
Thanks, OOTT!
Loving your channel more and more! Subscribed.
Thanx, Craig! And welcome to ‘The Tribe’!
Great to see you back, Michael! Very interesting topic to take on. Love your take on these pretentious “audiophiles” - instant classic. And you are spot on throughout here. Great job!
what a great video, always glad to watch your videos.
Thanx, Shelli! I appreciate your kind words, truly!❤️
Glad you’re ok brother..!!
Thanx, Steve! Getting stronger every single day! Appreciate your good wishes and salutations, Bruddah!❤️😉👌👍😵💫
Excellent post Mike! This is probably the best post on the MoFiGate, yes the source material is an important part of the musical creation process, it's not a question if it was recorded digitally or in analogue, it's about the Sound that the artists/musicians wanted to create!
Get well and keep up the good work!
Hey great to see you have recovered from your procedure. Thanks for presenting this story so well. As far as analogue recording goes, I bought an ADR600 CD Recorder on the early 2000s. I have used it to record many LPs and various CDs over the years, but the best results were from a 6 head VHS recorder. Those VHS tapes have got big, fat audio recording tracks and they kick some serious ass on playback, even in MP3 format.
I’ve heard this before, Robert!
The wider the tape the better, brother!
I myself use an Alesis Masterlink for my digital needs, and have been tapeless for about a decade now! ❤️😉👌👍
I agree with one caveat. Most of my recordings are from the 1990's. A lot of my vhs tapes have deteriorated and now have distortion. Of course a very small number of my cd-r's also have but all of my top quality cd-r's play and scan fine. Maybe I wasn't using high enough quality tape. I did use high quality cd-r's (Kodak, Mitsui, Falcon, Taiyo Yuden) and that is probably why they have held up so well.
The stereo audio tracks on a vhs actually sound bad, tape runs tooooo slow. The great vhs sound, which yes I have used to record audio many times is cause they encode it in an RF signal. It's put on the tape by the spinning video head. The standard stereo audio is a head that puts on audio as the tape moves by. The recordings from a HI FI VHS is as good as a CD recorder.
Hi Mike, as a newcomer to your channel glad you're feeling better and recovering. Listen....nobody has ever mention about the all DMM cuts! You want to make an outstanding vinyl - that is the method to use. This would be great for the one step process. Mike, yes show us more videos about the one step process.
DMM cuts have better signal to noise ratio, better sound stage, better imaging, better separation than the standard lacquers.
Michael this is a great explanation. The whole Mofi discussion has dominated the agenda for a couple of weeks now on you tube some shows lasting several hours. I love the way you break it down for us. I never bought into the high priced albums, came close on a Jimi Hendrix experience album but didn't pull the trigger. THANK YOU AND REALLY HAPPY TO SEE YOUR DOING SO WELL!!!
Thanx Royce!
I used to own 1/2 speed masters for what I considered essential albums by various artists. But only for the very best albums!
I’ve gone mainly digital these days, especially with the channel and the immediate access to that music for review for shooting MY videos, or even before I show up as a guest on your excellent channel!
I can’t imagine running a channel about music, and not have the instant access to music that is now not just wonderful music, but is also just one of many resources I need to run the channel!
Time is a Ticking, R!
Mike, as a newcomer to your channel... yes more videos on how mofi makes these one step vinyls. No one has ever mentioned about cutting and album using the DMM method!
This would improve quality on the audio by itself. Better on signal to noise ratio, more headroom, better sound imagining, wider sound stage...etc....etc.
Feeling better I hope!!! 100,000 by end of the year
One can dream, George! ❤️ And I like that dream!
I think your end point is key. Great video - and I think learning about the expense between the two is something the vast majority of us don’t know (that you know) Enjoyed the video. I take a tongue in cheek approach on my channel but it’s great to hear from musicians on the topic.
Recording the output of a tube amp into a DSD256 recorder Would probably be a more faithful reproduction with more warmth, depth than recording the output of the same tube amp onto 30ips analog tape.
With sampling rates the way they are, Hmmmm! Just maybe! Thanx, Delmar!
Glad to see that you are doing great with recovering from your surgery! Your studio looks vibrant from all that warm lighting! You explained this so we'll, I learned a lot! Paul McCartney Tug Of War! That is one great looking album cover! I have a fascination on studios. Could be the band Boston Tom S. recording his master of the first album in his tiny little apartment to Muscle Shoals magical moments. I believe that every bit of the studio surrounding contributes to the end quality of capturing those magical moments in the studio and often these things take place unintentionally. Have you ever heard the story on Muscle Shoals and the recording on the song Old Time Rock and Roll Bob S. When the kid passing through on vacation with his family stopped by the studio and the kid said that he wanted the studio to record him. They told him to go get his guitar and let him play along to the song track to see what he had. His guitar work and solo ended up on the final recording. That magical moment was just meant to be. Sorry for the novel. So glad you're doing well! Keep the dust off of of your guitar and albums and rock on!
I love Boston’s story, shoebox!
And yes, I agree with you regarding that album cover! A classic cover to a masterpiece!
Thanx, so much for your kind words!❤️Great stuff!!
You explained it the best.
Thanx, scagooch!
Glad you are back but please take it easy, brother. Give your body a chance to heal.
Brothers in Arms is one of the best sounding recordings I've ever heard on any format. I never knew it was a digital master! thanks for the info!
Subscribed after I heard your view on Axl Rose. Thought, this guy's video make sense! LOL
Thanx, Mark!
Yeah that whole video has re-taken off! Welcome to ‘The Tribe’!❤️😉👌👍🏝
I like your detailed explanation about digital conversion. Most of the records I care about are from the 1950's to late 1970's so virtually all are recorded on tape- all analogue signal path, quite often using tube pre and power amps in the case of Blue Note jazz RVG recordings for example. I love rock, soul and jazz so I have a varied collection which does also include some recordings that were originally digital. For example, Donald Fagen's The Nightfly was recorded in 1982 using 3M Digital which was considered to be the best at the time. It was the most expensive process, but the best nonetheless. Ry Cooder, Dire Straits and others used this process. Steely Dan had had issues with new processes like for example, noise reduction. The got royally screwed by DBX when they produced their album Katy Lied. It compressed the high frequencies in the attempt to reduce noise. The best recording engineer in the business Roger Nichols couldn't wrap his head around this aweful distorted signal hog that sat electrically between the mixing console and the reel to reel tape machines. Perhaps this is why their next album was called The Royal Scam. Nonetheless, because The Nightfly was recorded digitally, it is one of those MOFI One Steps that is not affected by the so called DSD Gate conspiracy. It is also a stunner and is clearly the reference version of The Nightfly. Same with Dire Straits Brothers In Arms, another digital recording as you know. Mofi was not transparent and this DSD usage started in 2008 actually from what I have see in some of the very many podcasts on the subject. Still, a title like Santana's Abraxas sounds awesome culled from a DSD 256 file. It's also one of the most value MOFI One Steps for the flipper resellers who are otherwise losing money on most of the One Steps they bought up at a heavily discounted price. So MOFI did indeed lie or at least mislead the customer. They got caught and now offer the tape to DSD info on the back cover of their reissues. Transparency in business is everything and just because AD conversion has improved so greatly compared to say 20 years ago, there's no excuse not to inform the consumer. In fact, they could have stated it as a selling point showing how they moved with the technology. I mean their mastering and cutting is still excellent but they were just so sure the consumer wouldn't accept it.
Glad you are doing better, vinyl is the only way to listen, can’t even find a decent turntable/speakers though
Unless you own the bank, I agree, Shaun!❤️😉
Thanx for your kind words.❤️👌
Looks like you're back with another insightful thoughtful post, I love my vinyl, but I'm just too lazy and frugal, so it sits on the shelf. Character defect I guess. In the end convenience wins out, and I don't miss the occasional crackle and pops. Shuffle play ruined it for me. Hope you're back to 100% real soon!
I think shuffle play did it for a lot of us, Ned!❤️😉👌
This is a slap in the face of the so called "audiophiles" that are full of it, some that argue it can her the difference between analog and digital, guess what?
*THEY CAN'T!*
Welcome back 🎼🎸🥁🎹🎤🎼
Thanx Robert!
Michael from "45 rpm audiophile" channel questioned the One Step Thriller and use of the original analogue audio tapes for that release before Mike from the 'in' groove.
Very interesting stuff.
This is the best take I have heard so far on the Mofi issue..
One day all new releases of old albums will have to be from a digital source. Tape didn't last forever.
I'm a 57 year old digital fan, never could stand putting on an album just to listen to 3 decent tracks. Was a proper pain even in my teens.
Excellent take on it, Michael. I'd tend to agree that they should be honest about it, but how many people really have the set-up to be able to tell the difference?
The golden question how many others lied .
Sourcing has always been a bit of a mystery .
Beautiful channel and videos. Just one question:
When we have an album on both vinyl and sacd coming from the same sources (master tape into digital dsd) would there then be a difference im sound quality between the two formats ? Wether the answer is no or yes please explain each. Even a short clear answer as to why would be very much appreciated :)
Thanks in advance
Michael great video personally always thought original vinyl records sounded the best with old school stereo and speakerstoday's recordings sound bright and tower speakers make it worse
Ah speakers! Don’t get me started on speakers, Danny! We live in an age of boutique this and boutique that! And boutique stereo systems are OK for Pop I guess, but not what I would recommend to listen to anyone with real balls, like (wait for it!)_________
Led Zeppelin!!!
There! I said it!❤️❤️❤️👌😉
(Whew! I feel much better now!)
Great video, just subscribed! …So I have another perspective on this situation regarding the price of these Mofi records…Which had a lot to do with limitations and rarity, and I do believe this is the biggest point to be made; When a record is pressed analogue it’s rare, and this process can only happen so many times, with that comes limited issues being released, therefore many of us who don’t want to miss out on a high quality rare/limited Record, will run to it and dish out the cash. Yet Mofi, has digital copies, this is NOT RARE, and these albums can be issued as many times as they want forever, Look at this Michael Jackson release, so many, so charge 100 bucks, plus, on these albums? Creating a new standard for how much a non rare and limitless record should cost? But do it deceptively. Smh…It isn’t like the process they are using is something new, it’s not, nor is the vinyl tech… I say there is a bolder point behind all this, and it isn’t “Digital vs Analogue”, But “Rare vs Not Rare”. For example: A rare record from Blue Note Tone Poet series, will cost 30 plus bucks while a record done with more included in the package can be close to 50 bucks give or take, Triple A pressings…This is how Mofi did people wrong.
Great points, Lee!
You’re right about vinyl tech, btw! They even admitted that they’ve come to a wall there, and are producing pretty much the very best vinyl that they can!
Which begs the cost-question!
Why so high???
Hey Michael. Andrew from Australia here. I'm a 61 year old gay man and club DJ of some 40 years. The first so called digital record I bought was Georgio Moroder E = MC Squared. As you can imagine being in the business as long as I have, I'm an analog fan. The first time I played this album at home, I was shocked at how bass light and treble heavy it was. Another two shocks were the Alan Parsons Projects Eye in the Sky and Tales of mystery and Imagination. Once again, bass light and treble heavy compared to I Robot. There was one glaring mistake on Tales of mystery and Imagination. The noise gate on the bass in one song which I've forgotten for the moment was kicking in so early that it literally sliced off the decay compared to other instruments as they faded to just the bass being played before another track started. It was like you heard the bass string being plucked but only decaying to 80% before it was wacked by the gate and it was painful to listen to considering Alans pedigree. Another singer who said that electronics was getting in the way of decent mastering was Neil Young. With the surge in vinyl globally, what are we paying for and don't get me started on Auto Tune! Are the older albums simply sourcing CDs rather than using the masters? I have to admit that I do like Enya on CD only. Because she has such a wonderful vocal range and quiet passages, vinyl does have a hard time keeping up with her vocal transients. CDs have a much higher dynamic range than vinyl plus Enya, who is the sister of Moya Brennan of Clannad, has been with the same engineer from the mid 80s. The problem is that no matter how clean the record is, all the minor noise floor and minor scratches are a distraction. Nicky Ryan, her engineer is excellent at his craft. If there is a bad CD out there of Enya, I haven't heard it. Neil Young was absolutely scathing of digital anything. However, there was one reviewer that was listening to an Elton John album on CD and he hated it until someone gave him the vinyl version. The whole sound stage opened up and there was no comparing the two. The reverse is true of course. I've subscribed to your channel by the way. Mofi. That's a strange name. Cheers from down under, Andrew.
Ah the good ol gated sound of the late 70s and early to mid 80s, Andrew!
Compress that bass until you cant hear the actual note, just the percussive attack! Then gate it again, with just one more Compressor added to really bring the non-note up into the non-mix!
BTW: I Robot is one of my favorites! The way the APP used the ‘robot’ to represent the disenfranchised, was brilliant!
And in the end, he wouldn’t want to be like us!
Wonderful artistic statement, IMO!
Thanx, Andrew!
Well said Michael. Interesting video
A very good video that shed further light on this slightly "murky" topic. I am not thinking so much that Mobile Fidelity may be overcharging for some of these titles when we are being led to believe that the signal is "all analog" all the way down the chain and therefore some justification for high prices in light of the limited number of times these LPs are being pressed. But if in fact, there are DSD files being created then years after a particular title's limited run has run its course and people are charging ungodly prices on the used market for titles that are no longer available, then I do feel deceived because the LP can indeed be "reissued" yet again. I have been collecting LPs for 45 years. I bought about 75% of my collection at garage sales in the 80's. 90's and first decade of 2000 where I lived just south of Tampa Bay, FL. I have probably close to 3,800 titles. Lately I have been buying from a local record store, EBay and other sources to often fill in the gaps of certain cherished artists where I may have missed a title or two. One of the reasons I have slowed my spending is that I am finding many reissues are coming through with, sometimes small, but nonetheless, warps. This is inexcusable on a 180-gram LP when I am spending the kind of money I am spending. And now this "analog vs. digital" issue has further muddied the waters. I am definitely viewing this hobby differently now.
You covered it all really well, the debacle really is charging a premium based on a lie, but in the end the mastering and quality of the recording, whether digital or analogue is what separates good recordings from "audiophile" recordings. I've been saying for some time now that your turntable is just a DAC with moving parts, the sound you enjoy from it is just simply different but not superior to digital. In my experience, digital gives you a lot more bang for buck in terms of sound quality than a turntable, and the turntable no matter great (along with the cartridge/phono stage) will always be limited to the inconsistencies of individual pressings, something you don't have to stress over with digital. That said, I still collect records for the experience of listening to something that demands more attention/care than just loading up an album from an app on my phone.
There is something to be said about any form of entertainment that requires your attention, and participation as well!
It always invests you into the experience, in my experience! You get what you pay for, and in this case the payment is attention! Great point, bh!
Agree. Digital format with tube amps is great.
I’m no audiophile but have guttural reaction to liars or folks that lead you down a path that is not true but don’t actually say the words. Thanks for the update and take care
Thanx, Dennis! I hate liars as well!
Wether they do it by deletion, or an outright falsehood, it always winds up as a real pain in my arse, every single time!❤️👌
congratulations!
🎉😻🎊
Thanx, Wade!
Bottom line: A bunch of people who were dogmatically praising the Emperor's new vinyl clothes got caught with their pants down.
In the late-80's, just before he died, Leonard Bernstein said Digital is the greatest thing that ever happened to music. I agree. I just love the absolutely pristine high frequencies of digital (Maybe because I went to one too many REO Speedwagon concerts in the 70's, and my auditory nerves are shot, haha).
I can say I have always been happy with any MO Fi releases that I have picked up, for some of the older albums they were absolutely the best available version and occasionally maybe I have eventually found what I would consider superior versions, I have never been disappointed with them either.
glad 2 c u r doing well buddy.
What's important is transferring analog multitracks at least at 48k sample rate 24 bits
Yes! And working around the 1 bit limitations of the whole DSD thingie, Jose!
Great points here, my man!❤️👌😉
Knowing Music Direct/Mobile Fidelity, they will come out with a certified all-analog series of records and charge even more for it.
That sounds about par for the course, ROBERT! More money for what they’ve been already been promising!
It was almost inevitable that digital must be in the chain. The sheer number's involved and prices charged, made it very lucrative. The thing now is to get the DSD masters played back within a quality digital system. That would be the best of both worlds.
The reason I prefer CD over vinyl is that vinyl you play a few times it is dirty and that mofi vinyl is no better
There’s always the upkeep, Thomas!
Anti-static devices, etc, can get in the way of the actual listening experience!
I agree! ❤️😉👌
Thomas - clean your records. 🙂
@@itsjim2875 I got 35 year old cds and vinyl. that is 50 years old by the same groups the cds sound much cleaner
I prefer cd cause i dont like to hear pops, cracks, vinyl noise and destroy vinyl over Time by needle. Vinyl isnt any better than cd
I found this very interesting Michael. I have been collecting vinyl albums for nearly 60 years..... Since digital emerged, there have always been differences partly due to the appalling transfers the early CDs resulted from, and partly from the tendency of early Digital Equipment to suffer from digital noise. These days with good digital equipment, the sound is as good as or better than the best vinyl systems. Having said that, I too was persuaded my Mobile Fidelity's marketing to buy some of their pressings. I did not buy many, because by my judgement the quality of the first few was poorer than the standard pressing. Now I understand why from your presentation! A real con.
Thanx so much for your input here, Nick!
Maybe now that their dirty little non-secret is out, we’ll see if Mofi is what they claim they are_____ a class act!
@@MichaelNoland-TheBottomLine not holding my breath
What iss a DSD transfer? As opposed to what othar type of transfer?
Their golden ears have not been harmed or neglected, only their pride.
An honest "analog audiophile" type would take this news and think, "hmm, maybe the all-analog chain thing isn't as important as I thought it was. I wonder if the Mofi engineers used DSD because it was better, easier, or both? What if it really is just more transparent and therefore better for the job at hand?"
People who are more interested in doubling down on their existing narrative will react with anger, disgust, vengeance because they're embarrassed.
I’m willing to be convinced, DK! But these guys have got to be far more transparent for me to trust their products!
Even they have admitted to not being as transparent as they could have been!
But admission after the fact is kind of like closing the barn doors after the horses have escaped!
Alas I dream of buying vinyl again, will let you know if or when that dream becomes a reality. Music and its sound, like anything else is subject to ones personal taste. But if I expected a certain sound because of the way it was recorded, and then that was put in doubt and I felt I was taken for a ride financially I would be a bit pissed. Adding up all the others who may have been mislead by say MOFI, yes they have to be way more open about their procedures. Have a great weekend Michael, cheers!
Thanx, Dan!
And I agree! It’s time for full disclosures regarding just how these new remasters were put together!
Most audiophiles would be ecstatic for the extra info, Mofi! That’s your customer base, after all!
@@MichaelNoland-TheBottomLine You bet!
Hmmm. I listened to Mike’s interview also. I heard Mofi say they verified the authenticity of the original tape. If all the cuts were verified, they transferred from the original tape to Mofi’s digital source. I did not hear that Mofi transferred from a digital original. Can you point to a timestamp on Mike’s video that mentions a digital original. Thanks and welcome back.
Great video Michael. I have long been a MoFi fan, and I own at least 2 dozen of their albums, my question is, how far back does this skullduggery go? I became interested in mobile fidelity largely because of Brad Miller and the Mystic Moods Orchestra, so the albums I have were actually purchased in the early 70,s when Stan Ricker was involved in most the 1/2 speed mastering.
When MoFi started producing cassettes and CDs I really began to lose interest. So, the obvious question is, how far back? One might assume they were making a legitimate product at some point.🤔
So glad that their prices were a little out of my range. I never bought a mofi record . 😅
No matter the source I still prefer vinyl as you have to get up to put the other side on and you can get another beer whilst you're up.
Yes, russell!
The more ‘involved’ this listener is, the better the experience in my opinion!👌❤️
I think there is a difference in feeling "for what it's worth" between a live organic performance and a digitally corrected version of the same. It's always better live even if the band is having a bad night!
Hi Michael (omg not another Michael/Mike on this topic! ha jk), first time watcher here.
Glad to hear your feeling better! May you have lasting health for years to come👍🏻
Of course they lied lol. Im not surprised. This is the music biz folks, its built on illusions and lies, ha.
Anyway, as Tommy Lee Jones would say in the Fugitive.. "I dont care!"....
As long as it sounds as great as possible then that is what the bottom line is for me practically.
Would I have liked AAA?
Sure.
But I kinda knew that couldnt be happening with these big companies getting stodgier and stingier with their mastertapes.
Plus as you mention, this is good news!
We now know the digital process has caught up. And this should make the opportunities better and easier. Probably is already and has been for many years, people just didnt realize just how many of their great sounding reissues (not all are great sounding) are indeed digital.
Anyway, a couple of questions:
Since these are 4xdsd transfers then is there some sort of sonic advantage of running the file through an analogue chain (GAIN 2 system in Mofi's case)?
What are the sonic advantages of pressing 4xdsd to a vinyl record?
If no sonic advantages, then other than money to be made, why not just have downloads available to purchase?
Thanks for the video and efforts man!
PS: Id bet what the young man is hearing with the Kind Of Blue title is a mastering difference that he most likely doesnt like, not the fact its digital.
Which brings in the real issue imo. Mastering is still the main thing in this. Some of these digital transfers sound bad not due to digital but because the mastering choices are wacky.
In the end, it’s always the sound that matters! That, and a stubbornness by music listeners not to accept the same ol’ same ol’, John!
Michael Lou Mars is showing new music and video this Sunday on Royce in the House You Tube. Please join us at the usual time of 6:30 p.m. pst.
I’ll do my very best to be there, brother!
Good one, Mike, but what am I doing with a big black DSD CD on my turntable? It's there to play records, of which all of my around 500 are from the 60s-early 80s except 2 presents from Mofi, which are known as only digitally mastered from the first take. I have records that you just can't get in any other version, recorded and cut in churches or concert halls, some directly cut in the room next door, that's vinyl for me with all the little imperfections and extra noise, exactly as it was and bearing the room's acoustic pattern and delay times. My DAC is there for the DSD stuff of which I can stream up to 11.2 kHz, if you can find it, and it's great as well, but I'm not going to dunk my expensive stylus in a vinyl DSD, just sell me the DSD copy for 20-30 bucks and not a big black CD for 120 plus and Bobs your Uncle, they ripped everyone off, I, for one, am not going to pay over 100 bucks for an LP just because it sounds good, when there are other alternatives that played digitally will always sound better than via my turntable. Choose the medium as it was produced and sounded like, for its time in history, that's why we all have CD players, DACs, turntables, streamers to play the appropriate medium on, well me at least 🙂
Thriller by MJ.. little girl music...also RPM 45 actually " broke" the news about MoFI......
I love the lossless Rips from Vinyl , made into CDs and played through stand alone DAC,...based on my ears, my system and my room , what I hear is still the warm Vinyl sound with no digital harshness or brightness, compared to a studio recorded CD album...I don't know the science about it, being a vinyl sound fan, I love what I hear..( not sure whether it's digital or analog, but I am a Vinyl sound fan)
Get your popcorn ready! This was good stuff. Collectors whether audio, cars, action figures art...........Can 2k Speaker Towers sound as good as 10k speaker Towers why yes yes they can....................we all want the stuff we pickup to be the best and proud of it. You do you and whatever makes you happy but don't collect thinking you're going to profit or retire. When you know you know.
Amen, David!
Who says you can’t buy a thrill?
@@MichaelNoland-TheBottomLine Agreed I have surrounded myself with Frank Frazetta / Michael Goddard art and each room has speakers man! There is nothing wrong with collecting things which make you happy! One thing that isn't cool is misleading buyers from Knock Offs to say recording methods. Its your money do some research before going all in!
I hope someone at MSFL leaks the Thriller DSD files.
I don't have a turntable but I do have an SACD player and have many MoFi SACDs. In the included insert they describe their UHR GAIN HD ... a custom Studer tape playback deck .. directly fed Ito MFSL's Quad DSD A/D converter. I've been under the assumption that Quad DSD was part of their UHR GAIN HD system -- thus I would have thought that vinyl would be cut from the same system. Quad DSD is printed on a album from 2020 and some older albums only indicate DSD thus I don't know when they introduce Quad DSD vs DSD. I would love to be able to get the Quad DSD files indeed of just DSD. I have some pure Quad DSD recordings that never have been converted to DXD/PCM and they sound fabulous.
Check out Michael 45, I’m pretty sure he raised the question first but Michael Esposito was offered the interview. I have no horse in that race but I believe in accuracy. Txs
Didn't have any of their vinyl but several of their CD's.They were definitely louder than the label CDs but on the pricey side.
Well I believe the management tried to burry this, the the sound engeneers were very transparent when they were asked about that. They gave the reason the used DSD256 and they were clear that sometimes they had no choice as they couldn't have the master tape at MOFI studios. Also they said that for first step the do a lacquer and with it they are making a stamper that they are using do press the final disc. But that stamper can only do 1,000 copies without any degradation. Michael Jackson Thriller required 40 lacquers meaning they would have had to play 40 times the original master tapes and there is no garantee the sound would have been constant. With DSD256, they are retaining the full uncompress quality of the master tape and they could use it one million times, each master will be flawless. But they should have been more transparent in the process to begin with.
Hope you're doing better Michael.
Why do some of these videos always give a little kick in the shins to audiophiles? It is just a hobby, and most of us are nice people and don't go around bullying people! Honestly ;) Don't we all like good sound, transparency and an honest product for your bucks? Maybe even you are a bit of an audiophile yourself?Besides that, a good video and more importantly glad you are recovering well!
Never to real audiophiles, Bjornar! Real audiophiles know what they are listening for!
I was talking about the fakes out there who do the preaching, based only on their stereo systems, and not their EARS!
True music fans don’t talk down to others music fans just based on their damned stereo systems!
Thanx for your input here! Like I said, there are audiophiles, and then there are audiophiles! There are good and bad in all walks of life!
@@MichaelNoland-TheBottomLine That we agree on, my friend!
Well said man..
This reminds me of the liars at MQA... Don't trust company's who lie ... period
If they were or now are truly interested in the FINEST possible transfer possible they would be using a much different proprietary technology throughout their process especially knowing that every access to the master tapes degrade their very real finite life. I can't believe the Conservators of these Vaults, of these Estates don't require best possible processes in protection physically and in capture of these treasures.
It was interesting that the engineers had to 'front up' not the Directors / Shareholders who are ultimately responsible for the disinformation. At the end of the day MoFi have profited from mis selling their products and i suspect the business will experience some difficulties as there is likely to be reputational and brand damage. In this case does the end justify the means? No because of the falsehoods. But at the end of the day how many people will really care...that is the question.
I have several Mofi cd's as well as the regular cd's,and the Mofi's sounded better. I am more concerned with the sound quality. The only issue that concerned about when they kill all of the dynamics of the recording by compressing too much.
Amen Rick! Or compress the notes out of a great bass line, making it nothing more than a percussive shadow of all that the instrument has to offer!
I keep hearing the logic that since a DSD step is involved, this make the process less expensive.
Ummm… no.
All other parts of the process are still being followed… including the studer transfer. If anything. Wouldn’t the extra step add cost?
Somebody share some justifying logic w me please?
Yes . For years.
Glad your doing well! New vinyl is snake oil. Post 1984, masters became digital. Don’t fall for it. Today, digital is really good. If you want vinyl look for pre 84 releases.
I agree Dave!
MoFi broke the heart. OCD Mikey hurt the butt. How can you mend a broken heart.
It doesn't matter sonically . My ears are over fifty and I probably couldn't tell the difference but as a consumer forking out big bucks it does matter. The albums sourced from original master analog tapes are for the most part priced higher digital. Digital when done right is awesome.
Masters have been transfered to digital.I rather get a copy from a digital master than a tape that can fail.
Me too, Mr! Tape is awesome, but it doesn’t tend to hold up in a decade!
It gives me the jitters..
Yes, they lied. It's hilarious now looking at their One Step diagram, with the added DSD step. Of course, that's the way it SHOULD'VE looked like from the beginning. I'll be sticking to my originals.
Yep! And hoping for first pressing finds!😉❤️
So audiophiles can't tell the difference between DIGITAL vs analog? 🤔 tell me more
I bought a bunch of dj records in early 2000. They were born and made digital 100%. It seemed funny buying the tracks on vinyl but that was the dj medium before cdjs and controllers that hook up to the computer came into vogue. So I say, why buy vinyl if the digital file would be superior listening? I do buy records because they are affordable. I have about 50 lps. I think audiophiles are more into having all the brag worthy pressings and the biggest collection of them than actually enjoying them. Look at 45 RPM when he and Lou Reed were discusing the debacle. He looked really bothered by it
ANALOG BABY!!!😁🤟
MoFi. The K-Tel of the future!
As for me MoFi case in't about quality but about lying. So I do not understand why so many people around pushing us to conclusion that if MoFi records sounding good so it's OK. Yea, OK, if lying is OK.
Digital when appield with todays tech. Blows away the best AAA, Yes I'm an Audifool like the rest of you, As a matter of FACT owing close to 100,000 records at one time,selling over 90% so I am retired now, I love good Digital Recording FIM-Shm and carefully Digitalized Vinyl & C.D.s
I’m not justifying what they did but everyone keeps misstating the facts. If it existed they did go to the analog master and using their equipment make a copy of the master tape to take back to MoFi. With all the mastering notes. Then they would make their decision to create a quadDSD master to mill from. This is very different from just getting a DSD file from the label.
I've heard dozens of them, The Beatles ones are disappointing. There'll all pretty underwhelming Except for the first Boston album, which sounds glorious. This one is worth seeking out if you like the album. No question it's been overplayed, but this version adds a freshness that's noticeable, and it's not just a treble boost.