Hi Steve, uh ... you know, we should never tell the truth and your videos of late, are you know, well, still as good as they always were. Not too long, not full of BORING, BORING, BORING people. I know exactly where you get all your genius guests, wowsa! Yes I know just where these you know, wonderful entertainers are at. Thanks, keep up the good work.
Misleading customers on purpose can never end well. While I understand and appreciate why they might have made the decision to use the dsd process, to actually call the process the GAIN 2™ Ultra Analog™ System for Vinyl is misleading and they deserve all the criticism they are getting.
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
I don't care that it's digital, I own several Newvelle records pressings which are all digital. But, they're £50-60. The objection I have is the fact that I've paid the best part of £200 (by the time you add shipping and duty in the UK) for what I assumed was an all analogue pressing. Just sell me the 4x DSD file as a download. It'll save me tube and stylus life!
100% spot-on! I'm not a vinyl-prude myself, but that's the exact objection that I WOULD have if I were. The extra jacked-up price for these LPs seems to be excessive for what was provided. Total lack of transparence, IMHO!
Unless it’s the distortion and coloring of the vinyl playback that we like? Words with negative overtones for those that think “accuracy” is the intellectual reason they like the sound of vinyl. I agree mofi lied and f’d up big time. But I don’t think a 4X dsd file is the same as a 180g record played with my cartridge, as I enjoy the large format cover, book and extras in a box set. Plus, much of their value added work is done to the sound after that file is produced. The raw file is not what’s on the record.
@@ProgRockKeys I have open reel, vinyl and digital and I'm happy listening to any of them to be honest. Accuracy is something I couldn't care less about. I use valves and horns. I just like my music to sound "nice". I get the work and the packaging, but £200 (although of course that's here in the UK) is still quite steep. I'm glad they got the transfers in the first place to be fair, however they were made. I could always record the DSD file to open reel tape 😁
You’re kidding yourself ,Paul, if you seriously think MOFI higher price isn’t warranted simply because they record in DSD at times… try to get major labels to give you the same quality sound at mass market prices… it ain’t happenin’, bro. You’re paying for intense labor and care that goes into a final product for the discerning customer. Have you tried buying a Blue Note Tone Poet release for $30? …t’ain’t happenin’ for sure. Enjoy the releases you have while you have breath. They are worth what you paid. If you cant enjoy them anymore because you’ve discovered you made wrong assumptions by non sequitur on how they were made, just sell them and let someone who can enjoy them have them… you’ll find many a buyer on discogs and such the like for those limited edition pressings you have.
I feel cheated by MOFI, because customer pays a lot for the records. We all thought the price is justified due to the complex manufacturing prozess. Thats the lie.
Yep by the logic they're knowingly deceiving customers to sell more records and make more money. At the end we have DSD file on a piece of plastic. They think people don't have DACs to play DSD and we just all fetishise vinyl as a format?
The process isn’t any cheaper because they are using a digital step. If anything it can cost much more. They ship their gear to where the master tape is, fly an engineer out and make a transfer at the location of the master tape. Then they ship the gear back and fly the engineer home. If they cut directly from the master tape they just get the tape sent to them and cut it at their facility. No shipping or flying around the country expense needed
@@trueaudiofiles8453 Mastering isn't just about the acquisition phase which you seem to only consider. The expense regarding analogue is further down the chain in terms of manual labor and time in all aspects (studio, manpower, etc).
@@Mrsteve4761 I am very familiar with the process as I have friends in the industry. I know there can be issues that arise when cutting from analog that don’t come up when cutting from digital that can add time to the process. My point is that the time and cost to fly the engineer out and ship the equipment out to where the master tape is certainly is not cheap and I would argue that it may even cost more than any extra labor that is involved in creating lacquers from an analog tape.
I don't care about the "purity" of the tape. The records sound great. It is the fact that they obfuscated the process and then charged a premium price under a false pretense. That's what is upsetting. BTW, I am keeping my Mofi's, but I might hesitate to buy more at the premium price.
It's a simple issue. They implied "all analog" and they traded on this. Turns out they mislead their customers. No wonder people feel betrayed. It's not a matter of resulting sonics, it's about a callous lack of transparency.
That's a far, far better argument than the one about digital not sounding as good as analog. Misleading people is never a good thing. If MoFi said the recordings were all analog, that's what they should have been. Anything else was deception. But the kicker here is that all those folks bought those MoFi records and touted how good the "pure analog" sounded, much better than digital, not knowing that there was a digital layer in the middle the whole time. Digital is really that good, folks. Thirty-nine years after the introduction of the CD in America and more than 50 years since the first Hi Fi digital recordings, I wish people would just accept that properly-done, uncompressed digital recording and playback is absolutely transparent to all human ears.
Scott Grammer - People are assuming that a even better sounding pressing couldn’t be yielded without the DSD process. Press a Lp using DSD and press the same Lp without DSD. Then see if a difference is heard . That’ seems to be the logical and simple way to end the argument
@@cirenosnor5768 the argument will never end... countless studies properly peered by AES prove the digital is transparent... the analogue that goes in comes out at the other end well beyond our hearing limits
Steve, honesty vs deception is the issue. The MOFI records than I own sound the same as they did before. I have no doubt. However, my opinion of MOFI the company is different than before. The Original Master label on their records is blatant deception in addition to other marketing and lack of text. If you bought an amplifier that was named 30w Tube Amplifier and opened it up and found solid state, and the company said tube was just a trademark and the amp still sounds good, would that be cool?
Funny how industry "journalists" are trying to downplay this. Well since they get many releases for free (as promos) I guess they have nothing to complain about.
Steve I don’t think the point is the quality of sound. We all know they sound great. The point is that you are paying a premium for what you are told is something that it is not. It’s lying to the customer. As to your point about “do we need more bad news”. This is how many of us escape that other bad news. Peace
Steve, I think the point is that customers have been misled believing that were buying a product advertised as pure analogue and charged accordingly with very high prices. Nothing to do with sound quality. It’s about money
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
I respect Steve and have been a subscriber for a number of years. However I agree with others that say he is missing the point on this one. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the records suddenly sound bad. Customers have made buying decisions (i.e. accepted a high purchase price) based on an understanding of what the product was. Had they known that the product was not end-to-end analogue, they might not have been willing to pay so much. They could sell their Mo-Fi records on, but will surely make a significant loss.
Still weird tho. Me: "Do your MoFi records sound worse now?" MoFi dude: "The point isn't sound quality, the point is we were misled they were all analog" Me: "What's so special about all analog?" MoFi dude: "Sound quality." Me: 🤔
@@OwlsRNotWhatTheySeem It's a process thing. It's like tricking someone that non-organic food tastes as good (or better) than organic food. But you pay for the process, it might not be the best in the end. But you know it's organic. Same goes for all analogue record pressings. People were paying for what they thought was an all analogue process for their hobby to listen to analogue records. Granted, nobody is talking that mofi DSD can't result in a great pressing. But at the same time they have put out some duds of a pressing out as well.
@@billyelliotx you're caught in the loop. Why were they paying for the process? Is it better for your ear drums? Does all analog keep bugs away? Oh, I know, they sound better. That's the loop: it's not about sound quality. It's about the process. What's special about the process? Sound quality. But it's not about the sound quality. And around and around you go. Life is full of unreasonable beliefs and decisions, collector types no exception. This thing has certainly exposed one with some Audiophile guys.
I don't care too much about the mastering chain. All MoFi ever had to do was say, "When available, we use the master tapes. If they're not available we use a proprietary process (occasionally digital, occasionally duplicated tapes, or whatever) it's private, and we stand by the sound quality." They ought to just admit it. Once the question was raised, their answers were evasive and dodgy. It has nothing to do with how their records sound....nor vinyl vs. digital.
Or they could have just put a DSD logo on records that where DSD was used and also made it clear on their site which records are digitally sourced. Cut out the b.s. corporate PR weasel speak. This company is the NOKA chocolate of the vinyl world, full stop.
Spot on, the fact they misleading, a master analog straight to digital is still a master copy, but tell me used a digital version of the master, do not misleading me into believing it was the original analog tape
I agree, almost completely. "All MoFi ever had to do was say . . ." The problem is that if MoFi had said what they should have said there is no way they'd sell all of those records for the prices they charged. They'd have to lower the prices to somewhere around $50, maybe less. So the problem for the company is not merely semantic. They wanted money that they knew they couldn't get by being genuine. Not only did they take money from people that they really didn't earn, they insulted and humiliated their customers. They discredited a whole segment of the community that they depend on for income.I think it's quite possible that vinyl on the whole could suffer from this and that would make them real villains in my mind. Just for the record, I'm not an analog purist. I don't think I'd ever buy a record that I already have on CD. I'm just calling it like I see it.
I care 100% if there's digital in the mastering chain. I bought the Beatles stereo catalog mastered from a digital source. It was awful. Dead and lifeless. The AAA mono releases, a few years later were wonderful, though.
Boils down to this: did the company make false claims about their products and charge a premium based on those claims? If yes, why should the consumer believe anything the company says, ever?
And if the company did not state any false claims in its marketing…. Then what? I have just a bit over 100 MOFI titles… none of the marketing says anything other than it was sourced from the original master tape, and those where the master cant be confirmed as original have the MFSL silver stripe instead. So, there’s that bit of fact to add to the story.
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 - that he’s not easily given to logical fallacy or blaming others for his own missteps at most, and he simply knows how to sincerely appreciate music at least, maybe? That’s how i perceived his conclusion of “couldn’t care less”.
@@mikewinburn As you have undoubtedly noticed, MOFI's titles have an ORIGINAL MASTER RECORDING banner across the top front of the covers. There's your marketing. Are you saying that didn't influence your purchasing decision (over 100 times)? If not, why did you buy them? Sounds like you may have a case of what psychologists refer to as cognitive dissonance.
@@mikewinburn To me is says he couldn't care less that a company has been lying to their customers for a decade while charging a premium price at worst and misleading them at best.
Thanks, Steve. I like most of the MOFI records, but I agree that they should've specified that they were using a 4XDSD step. The records also should not cost $125 when you're cutting from DSD. It doesn't require the same time and manpower from what I can tell.
They were lying and misleading their customers for profit, it's as simple as that, and Steve "couldn't care less" Because the mofi guys are probably his buddies. He's lost all credibility imo
I think you are missing the point on this one. From my pov, I'm certainly not arguing about the sound quality. But it's the fact they mislead customers to believe they were buying something they weren't.
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
Glossing over the point is more like it. Complicit.
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it's not about the sound it's about corporate lying or misleading about the product. Most vinyl guys agree about the sound quality of MoFi (which is what matters the most), and i'm 100% sure that if MoFi never mislead consumers, this controversy would not exist, and people would just enjoy the great sound of their records.
Their records often don't even sound that great. They have consistently offered good quality vinyl, but the mastering even since the 80s has been spotty at best, and scarcely have they put out definitive versions of albums. They also have some underrated pressings like the Beatles catalog. IMO they did an absolutely fantastic job with those despite them not being quite as good as original UK pressings.
This would all be great if those records weren't so expensive, just because they were "all analog" which is proven to be wrong. So, even though I like the quality of MoFi, I don't want to pay extra money for fake advertising.
Not revealed as being "less than pure", the issue is have they been "less than honest". Strange how you, Fremer, Micallef, (I'm sure there are some other audio industry folks I missed) all seem to have missed the point. I don't think any is suggesting Mofi puts out a bad product. But you have to admit the marketing has been, at least, deceptive. IMHO. 👽✌️
I agree . I don’t think and haven’t heard or read anyone saying the MoFi recordings are bad or don’t sound fantastic. The point is they deliberately deceived their customers. They were falsely led to believe they were purchasing a specific product when in fact they were not. They have EVERY right to be upset. So do after market buyers. If you pay $2K for a one step 45 rpm Abraxas described as being purely analog from the original master tape, devoid of any digital processing only to find out you were duped, you should be angry. Very angry. We all should. It’s a sham, a con, fraud. I have great respect for Steve, my favorite reviewer, but I vehemently disagree and am disappointed he feels this way. If I order organic food and I pay for organic, it better be organic. How great it tastes, how wonderful it looks or smells doesn’t change that. The relevant point, the overriding factor, the driving force in my decision is that it be Organic. It either is or it isn’t. I own no Mobile Fidelity products.
I agree - i will fell idiot to pay 100€ more for a MOFI LP than the SACD - both from same DSD file. Give us the whole story and let us - the costumers decide.
It's called mis-selling pure and simple. Do you still like your VW car? What's all the fuss about there, do you think? Is it a bro-haha? We now know that it is not only Mofi that is guilty of this. Check out the livestream by Chad Kassem - compilations issued by Analogue Productions are mostly all DSD (regardless of what the hype sticker may say).
Yes. All people I’ve respected are showing their allegiance to the manufacturers and not the consumer. Their constant harping on the sound instead of the deceptive marketing is telling
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
I personally think people were feeling ripped off because they believed to be buying an analog recording and of course it was mastered from a digital source and people bought it not knowing this And not being told this. myself would feel pretty peed off too especially after paying a premium price False advertising was involved as far as the customers were concerned
Yet Steve "couldn't care less" What does that tell you about the man who calls himself an audiophile? He couldn't care less that an audiophile company has been lying to its customers for profit for a decade
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 It's only a tiny part of the process, they are still 95% Analogue, people are being killed in the War every day, and MFSL still makes the best Vinyl on the planet. Relax, if you are going to sell your MOFI records contact me, and I will buy them for a good price, from you....
I am impressed with what they can do with DSD, and 4 times DSD is probably pretty amazing, and they can fix things that you can't fix in analog but... In a market where all analog is of such well known importance to the consumer, to evade clarity around the subject is really not ok. My Mofi records says master with the ultra analog gain 2 system. They were getting away with a level of deception and got called out on it.
@@Another_Audiophile Yes...only DSD recorded masters are pure dsd... anything that needs to be edited can only be done in the pcm realm... and no longer pure dsd
@@Licoricedisc Wow this could be another revelation... so if mofi does any remastering to the file (which they claim they do) then that means at some point in the chain its transferred to PCM for the mastering and then transferred back to 4X DSD!
It's the conscious lack of transparency that's the problem, so that they can sell these for $100+. I'm sure most agree that these sound great, regardless of the chain.
I haven't heard ANYONE say the albums aren't good. The problem is it was a lie, a scam, a con, a grift so that MoFi could charge more money. That is the issue.
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
Steve, I think you are missing the real sticking point here, which is honesty and integrity. I could care less what is in the signal chain if the end result sounds good. I just don’t want to be mislead or lied to about what that chain is. If I buy a product and find out after the fact it was not what it was claimed to be, that manufacturer or reseller looses my trust and I will not patronize them again. For example, let’s say Mrs. Audiophiliac buys some fabric to make a shirt for you. That fabric was sold to her as 100% pure silk. During the sewing process she somehow discovers the fabric is actually 30% Rayon. Would she be displeased…..?
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
I personally do not have a big investment in Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab’s products, but I do understand the argument and feel that it is a valid argument. If you are spending $150 on one album it’s hard to argue that these expensive box sets aren’t an investment. As an investment it would stand that people buying these as an investment are also hoping that their investment has the potential to go up in value - otherwise, if prices always dropped one could wait and buy them cheaper. However, one of the benefits of having an album that was sourced from the master tape (provided that master tapes degrade with time) then in theory you are getting “the best analog transfer” you will ever get. Now since finding out that these Mobile Fidelity records are sourced from a digital transfer, and digital transfers do not degrade like master tapes do then this “marketing lie” that people like you would like to dismiss actually effects the price on the secondary market. If you say well that isn’t what “true music fans care about” I would respond that that isn’t for you to decide. I would also say that there is nothing stopping them from repressing these digital records with 0% difference or degradation in sound as many times as they want. If you say well the sound hasn’t changed so get over it - would you have the same view if we were talking about a painting like a Picasso - if you bought a Picasso painting thinking it is an original, enjoyed it as such, then found out that it was a reproduction and then was told, your eyes haven’t changed and you enjoyed it before you knew it was a fake so you are being petty - I don’t think anyone would take this stance. This is a big deal for the industry and should be treated as such - in my opinion. Love your videos but strongly disagree with you on this point.
While I do think that they cheated and should be liable for it, if you are buying a vinyl as an investment, you need some better investment advice. It's like buying NFT in the hopes that it will be big one day. Well, this is even worse because it's just a way for people to justify their expensive hobby. Do you know how regulated the painting industry is - in terms of verifying originality? There is no comparison here. They advertised something, and people bought it without really checking. Some took advantage of it, good for them, but now they aren't able to so good for everyone else.
Just a heads up, doctor…MOFI doesn’t own the license to these recordings. They have a contract to produce a certain number…. So, not to worry, you’re investment is still sound. (Granted if they wanted to change a “limited edition” to mass market, they’d have to pay to do that…. So in that case, yeah, it would lose its investment value. Loved the Picasso analogy.
150 shouldn't make something an investment. They are only an 'investment' because companies use artificial scarcity to pump up the secondary prices. Knowing full well doing that means their stock immediately sells out, repeat, repeat. So there really is no basis for investment here, in fact you can see what happens when a record is re-pressed esp a long out of print album, say 90s. OMG my investment what happened! It's 1929 Wall Street again. In fact NOPE, there is no investment here. Exactly the same business model exists for Toys, Sneakers, etc. Here is an example of an investment, I have a signed EP with all 4 Beatles autographs, plus I have letters from experts stating the autographs are legit.
Bravo. I am quite startled by Steve's flippant attitude. It's very disturbing to me that he's taken a couldn't care less about attitude. This video makes me want to take a vacation from this channel for awhile even though I don't own any MoFi LPs and never really liked the company to begin with.
@@quitegenius I know the word "Hero" gets thrown around a lot on the internet but you my friend are a true hero. The world probably doesn't thank you enough for your investment advice. Thanks again!
It appears that most of us agree that (i) these LPs mostly sound great, (ii) but we thought they were AAA (because MoFi either explicitly said so or heavily implied it (depends on the album)) and they weren't. And while they sound great, they coulda sounded even better. Am I losing sleep over it? No. Do I plan to sue them? I do not. Is this a sky-is-falling-moment? It is not. It's just tacky, slimy, and cheesy. When you really look at all the places where they describe the mastering/cutting processes inside the LP, and you compare that with MoFi's shameful double-speak over the last two weeks, you realize this was a key component to how they sell these products; it's important to the MoFi narrative, not some immaterial detail that someone forgot to mention. As a regular buyer who preferred Chad's and Joe Harley's stuff anyway, I won't be buying any more MoFi LPs. And I don't think this is just going to blow over within the vinyl community. In fact, as an avid follower of this hobby, I can't think of a modern era debacle quite this bad, from a company's perspective. We consumers appreciate that there are many unknowns about an LP's provenance, but that makes credibility even more important. Losing 100% of your credibility is a big deal.
I just cancelled all my mofi pre orders it does not matter if they sound good, if possible I would like to have analog what was recorded in analog in the studio, I hope they go bancrupt but many people would not really care if it is analog or digital cut
Unfortunately, we will start seeing the "name brand" audiophile writers coming out with "the end sound that matters analog or digital" one by one (similar to MQA). I do not blame them one bit. Let's face it, if it were not for MoFi/Music Direct, Audioquest, and Upscale Audio, the advertising revenue for the two large US Audiophile publications would be dismal. The fact is the "deception part" of the messaging. MOST buy a $125 One Step to be closest to the analog source. If the DSD sounds better is irrelevant. It's the fact that MOST thought they were buying a PURE analog mastering chain. I think the writers know this and are trying to twist the argument a tad. Anyway, I do not expect the writers to say anything any different.
This. The audiophile press should be in the readers corner but this shows they absolutely are in the business of keeping the advertising revenue flowing.
Steve the issue is not if these MoFi LPs sound good or not, they sound great. The issue is that MoFi is selling a product at a premium in a desiving way as if they cut their products directly from the analog tape. They knew that if they were transparent about the process they wouldn't have been able to sell those albums at those prices so they decided to be opaque from the get go.
Thanks Steve. How would you feel if you were sold a tchesky record (of which you are a big fan as mentioned in a lot of your videos) with the assumption that it was recorded in a church, but years after you discover it was recorded as individual tracks in different studios? Regardless of Sound quality, wouldn't this annoy you at some level ? How about lab grown meat burger using a farm regular meat ? I think (and apologies if this upsets you) big figures in Audio world like yourself should line-up with consumers in calling any manufacturer or record label doing such practices, "The Audiophiliac" not really caring about it gives MOFI and others more confidence to keep and innovate and such practices in an already niche market. Thanks again
I agree with this. And he is not alone. Macallef and Fremer have both been very dismissive of MoFi’s unethical and deceptive practices. It does cause me to wonder why. Do they receive review units? Do they have relationships with MoFi or Music Direct? Is there a concern that they might lose access should they come out on the side of the consumer in all of this? Truth is, I don’t know. But it is very disappointing - particularly in the case of Steve. I always assumed he was on the side of the consumer. Clearly not.
@@Andy-rc9db He is going to want to review Andrew Jones's upcoming speaker. Wouldn't want to risk losing access to that. If I was in Steve's shoes I'd be mum on the subject.
@@Andy-rc9db this is the second time i'm disappointed by "The Audiophiliac", the first one being what happened in his video where his guest bashed Andrew Robinson's Wife Kristy, and how Steve just deleted the video and never gave a shit about his viewers nor the other channel runner, and never apologized. But this one hits harder, him being him the "Audiophiliac" part of the Audio game for 50 years, he really had to stand for something. i guess he has his own reasons, but again his response is soooo similar to the cartoonish way MOFI guys responded in the interview with Mike, reducing this big issue to something very Casual. No Mr Audiophiliac, MOFI used deceptive Marketing techniques, and did lie to their customers for at least 7 years, so please do not try to make us feel it's an "i dont care" subject
@@amirjubran1845 Fool is the company that wouldn't wanna send it's products to "The Audiophiliac", i don't think this is the Argument, all manufacturers know hi heas reach and notoriety, and if they don't send him, he can eaaasily have them sent by any distributor. (i hope i'm wrong) i think he didn't wanna call them out to not open the door for the reviewers or himself to call-out many other Manufacturers or Labels.
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
It’s pretty straightforward really from my perspective. They purposely misled their customers, through their own marketing material, and did not correct anyone who spoke about their product as being all analog. That is a complete breach of trust. I will be keeping my Bob Dylan MOFIs as they are the best copies I have heard. That does not mean I am okay with being purposely misled about the product I’ve been buying.
I agree with others, Steve missed the point. The issue is Mobile Fidelity mislead its customers. I could care less if it is digital or analog. As Duke Ellington says, "If it sounds good, it IS good." Just be honest about the process. What is so hard about that? Chad Kassem and his Analog Productions label is always upfront about the entire process. All analog. If it is not the original master or it is digital, he tells the customer.
In my opinion: 1) It's about a deceptive component that convinced a lot of Audiophiles and Music Lovers the MoFi products were from pure Analogue masters, with no digital processing. 2) However, you had to know there was digital processing ( DSD) with most of it, regardless of which physical media. 3) A large portion of Audiophiles have hung their hats, and egos: on this whole Analogue vs. Digital thing. Now they feel betrayed, as well as humiliated. I have several MoFi CD's. Most sound incredibly beautiful. I have no interest in dumping
It also hurts the analog purists to admit that albums they think sound incredible have some digital steps in there. Proof that it does not matter, and you cannot hear it either way, if the cut is done properly. (Yes I agree the main issue is deception/transparency)
@@notDonaldFagen So I tend to agree with you, which is why I refuse to pay stupid prices based on claims made by record companies. LPs based on high resolution digital recordings are fine with me. Heck, even my early to late 1980s records that say "DIGITAL RECORDING" on the label generally sound very good and they weren't much higher Rez, if at all, than rebook standard. People confuse LP with analog when in fact one has never meant to guarantee the other. But it's no excuse for MoFi to have misled people. Just cuz folks are gullible or misguided doesn't mean they should be lied to.
The process of transferring a master mix tape to to a lathe master is even more complicated than Steve implies in this video. As an engineer who's career began in the all analog era, I understood that the mastering process was, as a producer I worked with at the time called it, like sailing boat-very nuanced. The mastering engineer must make eq adjustments as the lathe cut to deal with the loss of treble and bass as you get closer to the center. For that reason, a tape safety was made during this process frequently on 1/4 inch tape at 15ips which is half the speed of the master. ALL subsequent pressings were made from that eqed safety master and the original mix master was stored in the vault. Never forget that none of the major record labels could give a damn about audio quality from the recording session to the final pressing. Sad but true.
I stream so this doesn’t personally impact me but here are my thoughts. From an audio standpoint Steve is correct, but MOFI is part of a second hobby, the collecting and trading of records. MOFI’s own promotion materials state, “MOFI engineers begin with the original master tapes and meticulously cut a set of lacquers…every UDIS pressing serves as an immaculate replica of the lacquer sourced.” People in the record collecting hobby relied on this statement to justify paying the higher prices that MOFI asked or, give the low numbers of product available, higher prices on the secondary market. Would the collectors have paid these prices had they known that “the original master tape” as actually a digital copy? As another commented wrote, when you buy a classic car thinking it’s all original and find out that it does not have the original engine the car is worth less than you thought it was, even if there is no difference in the driving experience. Jerry Seinfeld was sued recently when he sold a Porsche that he thought was original and it was not.
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
It’s amazing to me people don’t understand collecting and prices. I’ve only got 2 Mofi s so I’m far from a serious collector but let me put it in car speak. If I sold you a numbers matching “70 SS Chevelle for you to find out the engine block was from a “71 you should be pissed. Is it a Chevrolet?, Does it still make you grin? Does it snap your head back when flooring it? Yes yes and yes. But it’s not numbers matching therefore not worth the price paid.
Hey Steve, if the sound’s great, I’m good with it. And I don’t mind great sounding records that have a digital step. For me, it’s MOFI’s obvious deception of their customers. Takes a lot more marketing (and money) to earn customers back than it does to make them. Leadership has nearly missed their opportunity to apologize for the deception. This is business school 101.
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
If they, Mofi, are proud on what they could achieve in terms of sound quality with their methods and procedures - and trusting the recognition they got, they can be proud - then why not tell it? Why hide under ambiguous wordings, trying to avoid the d-word under all circumstances? There was a deliberate decision to do so, and they must have had a reason for this. This didn’t happen accidentally, this was a decision weighing pros and cons. If sound quality is all that counts, then what did they fear?
My guess is it's more about some peoples fixation with analog than anything else really. Someone decided to obfuscate their process to avoid potentially losing analog fixated customers, quite likely this person wasn't really even a hi-fi person... People have emotional reactions to these things, right or wrong objectively... I used to be all into analog, but as tech improved, gear improved etc etc, now I only listen to digital music like Hi-Res, MQA, DSD, ALAQ etc, but if I felt like listening to some older music I'd prefer LP but in some ways because that's how I fell in love with certain albums.
The problem for mofi is their lack of transparency,which made them get away with overpricing their records. Also,Chad Kassem from Analogue Productions said it best; “the question is not whether your album sounds great, it’s whether it can sound even better when using an original analogue tape without digital conversion”.
@@antman5474 it does not matter analog to digital conversion is not the same as analog tape which was used to record the music in the studio, if you convert that to digital you better play that digital file on high quality DAC, better if I was after digital mofi recordings I would buy their SACDs instead
You do know analog productions has never at any time or place suggested there is “no digital in our record pressing process.” Just as MOFI never stated it. As you might conclude by non sequitur that MOFI used only original master tape to lacquer, so you might also be concluding AP is only using tape to lacquer…. Just saying. And a non sequitur is then being your error, not APs or MOFI’s right?
@@dariuszsalamon9441 - agreed! CDs and SACDs only for me. This way i can get master tape quality and never worry how often i play my silver or gold record… it never degrades. I purchased the SACD of thriller within 2 hours of the announcement. Can’t wait to hear it!
I think that you’re missing the point entirely Steve. Remember “ethics” or “integrity”. Not to mention , “deception”. They lied and charged premium for actually cutting corners. Not analog transfer that they advertised. So you don’t have problems with them charging ppl $100 for marketing lie? Interesting.
This has NOTHING to do with the sound of their production. This has to do with Marketing Omissions. In 2017 they did a video where they said the Vinyl IS AAA, when it is not. They are commanding prices of an AAA when there is a DSD step in the process. Why not have that in their literature??? OMISSION in marketing is the problem not sound of their products
The records all sound as good today as they did when we thought they were AAA cuts, but that’s not the point. Mobile Fidelity was disingenuous in their marketing and sold us high-priced goods under false pretense. If they truly believed that cutting lacquers from DSD transfers resulted in the best possible quality, they could have made that clear and even made that a selling point. Instead they consciously omitted that step in all of their materials that detail the mastering chain. The printed inserts packed into their (ahem) “one-step” releases show an illustration of a tape reel to represent the master with an arrow that points directly to the lacquer. We now know that is a lie, as it should show a hard-drive in between those steps to indicate the interim step of digitizing the tapes. So, yeah, the records may still sound great but that doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t what Mo-Fi advertised them as being.
To me it wasn't so much an issue that they were doing that, rather the branding and labeling that was a bit misleading. Example - the latest Bowie reissue of Ziggy Stardust plainly states that it was cut from a 192k transfer right there on the cover obi strip for the whole world to see. To my ears it sounds amazing. So the sound quality isn't most peoples' gripe, it was that almost all vinyl enthusiasts assumed that if it said "Original Master Recording", and the original master was a tape, that tape is what it would be cut from directly. Also, there is the whole other topic of the marketing term "One Step". Now we know it really means "Two Step". The whole concept of "One Step" was that every step in a production chain adds or subtracts from the fidelity. They are adding a transfer step. Now, how much does that transfer step add or subtract? Probably very little. However it could be argued that using the father/mother method of vinyl production wasn't that deleterious either. Most vinyl enthusiasts weren't the ones getting obsessed with steps or the number of them, that was MoFi themselves. You could buy the one step for $100/$120 or the regular father/mother version for $50/60. So if they were going to make a big deal (and expensive) out of "steps" and then purposely omitted one of those steps from their marketing material - that was pretty disingenuous to say the least. As the old saying goes - The coverup is worse than the crime.
I'm unclear why you reference the outrage but don't refer to the source, and even go out of your way to not discuss it. Music Direct repeatedly lied either by omission or commission regarding the mastering chain of their products. PoetryonPlastic even identified a time they lied to you on this topic back in 2010 when you worked for CNET. Do you not care that they lied to you, and you gave their lies your support by publishing them? Last question, if the mastering chain doesn't matter, and 'purists' are misguided, then why did MoFi/Music Direct repeatedly lie precisely on this point?
Of course he his complicit. However much we love Steve, do we expect him to admit that he helped enable a deception? I think that’s too much to ask. A journalist exists as a journalist only because they lack that aspect of integrity. Otherwise there would be no journalism. Personally, I feel this lack of integrity (being selective about what evils to call out) is near the center and source of what was referred to as “all that’s wrong with the world lately”.
I still like my MOFIs and they are some of the best sounding recordings I own. The thing that does bother me is that they know that audiophiles prefer analogue transfers and they did thier best to remain vague about their transfer process. They allowed their customers to assume the products were all analogue when they were not.
Here's a statement from their web-site:"First and foremost, we only utilize first generation original master recordings as source material for our releases." Maybe they do sound good, even if they're digitally sourced, but this is a lie and they should cop to it. Think about the 75th anniversary Blue Notes vs. the 80th anniversary and Classic series, let alone the Tone Poet series. The 75th anniversary LPs are fine, but for the 80th and Tone Poet series, BN released some stuff they had already done 5 years earlier on digitally sourced LPs. This time time it was all analogue. Lots of us believe analogue in the mastering chain, from beginning to end, is better. Maybe we're wrong, but MoFi based its marketing on our assumption. Sorry, but this is just not acceptable, whatever the quality of the releases.
They mislead us. The records still sound the same. But they let us believe for years there was no digital in the chain. Not selling my MOFI's. But the bloom is off the rose when it comes to all these audiophile reissues.
Steve this is one of your best videos ever the way you explained how the recording sessions we’re done and how master tapes were produced was extremely informative.
I just want to add one thing, for music recorded in the pre-digital age, before 1980, perhaps the best way to buy a 100% pure analog LP is go for original pressings! For a lot of folks analog "purity" is crucial, it seems. I get that for sure. I personally go for older pressings when the price and condition are inline.
I just assume any repress of an album is digital these days. Digital can be done right, but most of the time it's not. I'm pretty sure people thought a low quantity pressing from analog takes was likely expensive, thus the mofi price. But now that they have an infinitely workable DSD transfer and effectively their own 4xDSD transfer vault to re-release their catalogue doesn't make it seem so limited quantity.
Steve doesn't seem most people give a s**t about analog purity. They seem to have a bigger issue with getting lied to and ripped off by MoFi. It would be like you giving a BS review because you were told that you could keep the gear. We get it it's not the Ukraine Crisis but it would still suck and affect how people feel about your reviews if they found out you were FOS like MoFi.
Steve, this isn’t a purity test. Please stop with this nonsense. It’s about transparency, ethics and straight up misleading your customers. The fact you don’t seem to understand this, and I hate to say it, but I now need to question yours.
It's not about people thinking they sound bad. It's about MoFi misleading the buyers. They knew if they published that there was a digital step involved they couldn't sell as many. What if your Cornwall's were nothing more than Panasonic Thrusters on the inside? Would you still like them or be upset that you were misled? I own zero One Steps. For me, the biggest fall out from this is the "oh well" attitude from reviewers I once trusted.
People who defend MoFi here are missing the point. Main issue is misrepresentation of the product and charging premium for it. Imagine you bought a Ferrari, and it drives great and gives you pleasure. Later you discover that instead of Ferrari engine they installed a Toyota engine with similar amount of horse powers. Would you be upset or would you say - who cares, it still drives great? Would you go back to Ferrari and demand to have a real Ferrari engine or would you keep the car as is and "enjoy it"?
If for one's enjoyment only, I see no issue (in fact, that Toyota engine will run until time eternity, unlike the other). However, go ahead and try to resell that "Ferrari" with the Toyota engine to another who expects a genuine pedigree in their purchase (e.g. Ferrari purist). I see the analogy as the same with a record of a supposed (analogue) pedigree. Because this musical hobby is not only for one's personal enjoyment but is very much also a business proposition regarding the resale market, I can understand how some feel cheated and believe they are now holding onto distressed goods.
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
Misleading, deceptive , manipulative, are all adjectives that come to mind over this. Yeah the records sound great, but people were lead to believe they were getting something special for $125 even though they didn’t say it was all analog. They led people to believe it and made no effort to correct it, they profited off of it. People were knowingly duped. Pretty sucky if you ask me.
This is purely about mis-selling of MOFI products to us all. Their business practices have opened them up to losing a significant proportion of their previously loyal customer base and possible class action-type lawsuits. The high quality sound engineering is not disputed. Trust has been lost and that will be difficult to recover.
I like "some" MoFi pressings, I'm nowhere near the camp that feels a certain label is the definitive pressing of whatever. I care about the sound, I don't care who presses it or how, if it's from the original tapes, yay. That being said, some time ago, MoFi did give a small explanation of their pressings. Silver labels were mastered from the "Best available source", while Original Master Recordings were "Mastered from the original analog tapes whenever possible", both of those statements while being accurate, leave a lot of grey area, but again, I don't need to know ALL the gory details of "how". It should be interesting to see how this plays out. In my opinion, it'll blow over and the greater majority of people will continue to purchase MoFi pressings. Look at it this way, so many complain about after market pricing of variant vinyl from RSD, but, someone is still buying them at overinflated pricing. There will be those who swear them off for whatever reason, I think the "marketing" spin being delivered over the years is what may bother the "purists" in the hobby. Again, it's not occupying my time enough to care, I still look for the best sounding album, yes, I'm not a fan of the companies marketing method, but we'll see how strong the convictions of the consumer end up being.
Hey Steve, hope all is well, thank you for taking the time to make these great informative videos,so the first step 1 I purchased was Yes- Fragile all I can say is that the vinyl was noisy on my low #ed pressing even after a good cleaning, for people who are willing to pay the bucks mofi commands they should at least have better quality control I’d figure I’d try another one which was Santana- Abraxas & yes that one sounds incredible So my outcome is if they sound up to audiophile standards TO ME then the source they are cut from does not bother me as long as they make my system shine
I don't own Mo-Fi vinyl simply because of the price. I imagine existing owners are getting uptight because far too many have bought the Mo-Fi LPs in part because they see it as them as the best of the best and therefore an investment and I suspect they now feel less confident about their investment in Mo-Fi albums. I buy LPs to play and enjoy, not as an investment and as we know (or should know) the value of any investment can fall as easily as it can rise.
It's upsetting the influencers who bought in full scale. Even making videos about how much thier collections have increased in value, how rare their newly pressed albums are etc. I'm actually kind of glad it happened so maybe MoFi can have a course correction and leave the speculators, flippers and influencers out this time.
Hey Steve, this vid spurred a question: With all the master tapes that are apparently floating around in the world, is it possible that there are master tapes still in existence from Steely Dan and others that were lost in the Universal fire a few years back? Just curious. It would be awesome if there are still copies of those analog gems floating around.
I may get some eye rolls with this, but when I purchased the Simon and Garfunkel one-step of Bridge overTroubled Waters and listened to it, I suspected that the nearly non-existent background noise sans hiss was suspect. I still have the album because the sound is superb! My thought then was that it was bumped to digital at some point, because that is the only way to virtually completely remove background noise; that is usually done through a program like Adobe Audition, which I use professionally. The digital process and noise removal is a compromise, but in most cases much more tolerable than tape hiss! I DO understand some people feeling deceived, and Mo-Fi will need to tactfully deal with it for those people. As far as Santana's Abraxas is concerned, I was not able to get the one-step, but instead I purchased the SACD. Now that I know that it was bumped to DSD, I feel that I saved almost one-hundred dollars by paying $35 for something that is just as good as the one-step, without pops resulting from dust landing on the record! And yes, I am also a vinyl junkie, but get over it people!!!
I think a potentially good outcome from this “Broohaha” is that MoFi have now agreed to include a “SPARS”-like code on their record covers to identify how their records are made. Chad Kassem has said Analogue Productions will also do this. To this end Intervention Records (and I’m sure others) already have a label on their covers indicating their record is 100% analog. Having the audiophile record labels universally display a standardised code and be absolutely transparent about their manufacturing process would be a great outcome. It won’t change the sound of the records, but at least we’ll know exactly what we are buying.
Thanks, Steve! Excellent as always. The things of which you speak are precisely why I enjoy the old Sheffield lab direct to disk recordings of the 70's-80's. Though there are not that many, I really like hearing (as close as possible) that which was played & recorded, without some audio engineer tweaking and twisting things to get the sound he wants. I do not want a "middle man's" impressions or interpretation of what the music should sound like, and it's hard to find those kinds of recordings today.
Thank you, Steve. Great explanation on what the mastering engineer does and what mastering is. I completely agree with your assessment of the situation.
The point you're missing Steve is that a lot of audiophiles are convinced that A. It's all about the music B. Analog is superior to digital C. Digital imparts a sound that ruins music D. Digital loses something that can never be retrieved E. They can hear the difference If you believe those five things (which I personally do not) then any step that converts the recording to a digital form loses the full content and beauty of the analog recording. And if you believe that, then why would you ever buy a vinyl record that was made with a digital step in the process? If the master is a 4X DSD file and you want the best possible sound, why wouldn't you just buy 4X DSD files? And why would those 4X DSD files need to cost so much? Do you really not understand that this controversy means, for audiophiles who ascribe to the beliefs listed above, that vinyl with a digital step in the process is essentially a waste of time because it's categorically not really the best possible sound quality? Again let me state, I don't believe in the idea that analog is better than digital. I don't even believe it's "all about the music " I think stereo is fun because of the equipment and the technology, and good music is a nice perk of the hobby. I'm a HiFi nerd who likes playing with the stuff as much as he likes music. I'd gladly own any of those MoFi records because I know they're well made, but I get my records from less expensive sources most of the time. There's no way I'm ever going to pay those prices for vinyl, certainly not for the sound "quality." If I want what I believe is going to be the best possible sound quality, at least as far as medium is concerned, I'll just buy a high res digital copy. If you look at the controversy and you have any concern for sound quality, this pretty much kills any reason to buy vinyl from them, no matter what angle you look at it from. Either digital is better in which case you should go ahead and buy digital files, or analog is better in which case these records don't qualify, or it doesn't matter in which case there's no reason to spend over $100 on a record. Again for clarity, I'm in the "what sounds good to me is ultimately all that matters" mindset. But that means I'm not going to spend that much money for something I could get for far less. The value of a really well made record obviously remains, regardless of whether or not a digital phase is employed in the production, but for many people, the primary impetus to buy the MoFi One-Step pressings was to have a pure analog copy. If you are one of those people, this is a punch in the gut and I can absolutely see why people are upset about it. It doesn't make sense for me to tell them to just stop caring because I don't share their priorities.
I’m annoyed and feel duped! I wouldn’t mind a a digital step like they do if the recording sounded great. I just don’t like the sneaky way they did not tell us. The head of marketing should be fired.
...the debate starts and ends with one word (I fully agree with M.Fremer here): transparency! The customer has to know what he buys, before he decides. That's all.
Long time listener Steve, but I can not believe that you don't get why its pissed people off .No one wants to be lied to. Especially considering that we're getting lied to about something were buying. You probably don't mind getting lied to, which makes me worry about how honest you are......
I am enjoying the "controversy" . Don't own any Mofis but love the drama. If this is the biggest problem we have at the moment then the world has just become a better place.
It‘s missleading advertisement if you tell people, who buy records for over 100bucks, you are using the mastertapes and put them „in one step“ on vinyl, and you actually use a dsd file. It‘s as wrong as selling non organic food as organic.
I really rate the sound of the Mofi albums I have and will still buy more. But it’s wrong how they’ve let us believe that the records are all analog . Reckon the prices of the albums should now be less
I am not upset considering that I only buy vintage LP, some of them like DG labels were proud to show "digital recording" on the cover !-) For the rest I had always prefer SACD or CD with DSD upsampling. So I am not surprised that MOFI followed the same path to cut they records...I tried to record SACD on audio tape and the result was surprisingly good. The only bad news is for analog snob willing to pay fortune on some good LP DSD sourced recordings and refuse to admit how good and mature digital sound is today (flac/cd/sacd). The LP business and hype was very lucrative, now it seems that CD/SACD are back in popularity regarding physical collection...and this is the "bad "news for silver discs lovers like me because prices will go up now. Hopefully I already built my dream collection during these last years.
Deal with the past and proceed with caution as a consumer. Since you mention the Stones/ABKCO SACDs, the DSD sourced vinyl cut at that time (mastered by RL) is considered some of the best sounding pressings of those albums... but they are labeled as digitally sourced
I'm not dumping my MoFi pressings. I am upset that they were not truthful in their process. They omitted the digital transfer step intentionally, because they knew they wouldn't be able to ask $100 per record if they'd included the information.
I find it interesting that the analog purists that claim they can tell the difference between analog and digital, loved these lps thinking they were all analog.
I like Steve and love his channel, but think he missed the point on this one. It’s simply about transparency- not sound. If you pay your own money and believe it to be one thing, snake oil or not, you want to know that the ingredients are honest. It’s not that it may sound better or be “superior” it’s about trusting the company or individual you are dealing with. Mofi was deceptive. They may sound great, but they flat out were sketchy. That’s just disappointing.
Hi Steve, 1. Yes, certainly if a person feels that there has been some misrepresentation, then that’s for them to work through or act on. 2. After watching today’s “Audiophiliac” installment, I paused and said to myself, Wow! That was a TED talk quality presentation. And that’s why I stay subscribed.
Thanks for great vid. It so refreshing to hear you ask the main question of how did record sound BEFORE and how does it sound AFTER learning about mofi's mastering? I think all this drama is more about audiophile egos than actual quality of mofi and digital. It wasn't an issue at all 3 weeks ago.
A pragmatic view: If I’m buying vinyl…I want it to be all analogue. Otherwise there is no need to have it on vinyl simply because vinyl is a medium that takes up a lot of space……and I’m running out of space after many, many years of collecting. So if you can make such a great record from your digital file, just sell me the file in some digital format….don’t imply that its all analogue; and forgo all the “one step”, 180 gram silent vinyl, ornate boxes, heavy tip-on jackets, and foil lettering histrionics. Just sell me the digital file at a much cheaper price point.
Yes, There are fall worst things going on in the world, and people talk about them on political websites. This is being spoken about in the vinyl community and they feel they were purposely deceived. What MOFI did was simply fraud and that is wrong. Some of the people who purchased these albums had to make budget sacrifices to do so. Don't tell me that the people at MOFI, didn't know that the majority of the purchasers were being made with the belief that they were 100% analog. I think what MOFI did should be against the law.
For us Canadians, some of these Mofi releases are closing in on 200 bucks! It says "Ultra Analog". But it's anything but so we have a right to be pissed..... Scammed
If it sounds great, I don't really care if it's analog or digital or what the transfer process was. We get so caught up in all the nitty gritty that we tend to lose sight of the objective - music that sounds amazing whatever the format. Sometimes the destination is is more important than the journey embarked on to get there.
So, why don't MoFi skip the expensive pressing process and just make their digital files available for sale? Money. They know people who have already spent a ton on a turn table and want to hear all that the analog medium has to offer are willing to pay buffalo bucks for a new analog pressing. And MoFi lied. It's not like digital hasn't been part of the vinyl process for a long time, but it was stated by labels using a digital step, and advertised as an improvement in the overall product. MoFi claimed, suggested, and hinted, the reason you're paying tons for their products is because it's ANALOG from start to finish. But then what do you expect in a country where medicine kills you? This is just one more story about business giving their own customers the finger, behind their backs.
The digital files are basically equivalent to the master tape. A direct 4X DSD rip of a 30 IPS master tape has fantastic sound, and could be used to master LPs and CDs. Do you think any record label is going to make that available to the public?
@@vinyl1Earthlink You miss my point. It's a digital file. It can be copied and pasted and converted into a multiplicity of readable formats that rival any output from a vinyl source using a much less expensive DAC. The bottom line is, don't lie about your product. Tell the buyer what they're getting. Otherwise they'll be justifiably pissed off and you will lose both customers and credibility, not only for your company but the vinyl resurgence as a whole.
Hi Steve 😊 One Word transparency. The cost is not a minor thing. If you charge 125$ pr reccord, then i as a consumer i would like to know what i am bying…By the way it much cheaper to produce the high Rez files into vinyl. It could sound good thow. Acoustic sound is very transparent 😊 Have a good one Steve Thomas
I became an audiophile about 25 years ago (38 years old),after being a music lover since I could remember a song. At about 12 years in I caught myself listening to the equipment during one of my favorite lps. I was stunned. It broke my heart. I had become a sound snob. It took some effort but I am a music lover again. That doesn't mean my equipment doesn't sound good ,or that I buy shitty pressings. Priorities.
There's an Audiophiliac imposter scamming my viewers, DON'T respond! I don't do giveaways or ask for money (except for my Patreon).
Bottom line. Don't trust anything Audiophiliac/ Steve Guttenberg.
Hi Steve, uh ... you know, we should never tell the truth and your videos of late, are you know, well, still as good as they always were. Not too long, not full of BORING, BORING, BORING people. I know exactly where you get all your genius guests, wowsa! Yes I know just where these you know, wonderful entertainers are at. Thanks, keep up the good work.
I was contacted by him and almost responded. Thanks for the warning. I didn't even know what Telegram was prior.
The issue is their dishonesty, not the results.
Misleading customers on purpose can never end well. While I understand and appreciate why they might have made the decision to use the dsd process, to actually call the process the GAIN 2™ Ultra Analog™ System for Vinyl is misleading and they deserve all the criticism they are getting.
and now actually know what that ULTRA word is doing in there. It means: GAIN 2 DSDx4 to analog System.
G-ullible
A-udiophile
I-ncome
N-egation
…2
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
Cable manufacturers have been misleading their customers for years, but many are still paying thousands of dollars for copper wire.
News flash: every company selling a product misleads.
I don't care that it's digital, I own several Newvelle records pressings which are all digital. But, they're £50-60. The objection I have is the fact that I've paid the best part of £200 (by the time you add shipping and duty in the UK) for what I assumed was an all analogue pressing. Just sell me the 4x DSD file as a download. It'll save me tube and stylus life!
100% spot-on!
I'm not a vinyl-prude myself, but that's the exact objection that I WOULD have if I were. The extra jacked-up price for these LPs seems to be excessive for what was provided.
Total lack of transparence, IMHO!
Exactly!
Unless it’s the distortion and coloring of the vinyl playback that we like? Words with negative overtones for those that think “accuracy” is the intellectual reason they like the sound of vinyl.
I agree mofi lied and f’d up big time. But I don’t think a 4X dsd file is the same as a 180g record played with my cartridge, as I enjoy the large format cover, book and extras in a box set. Plus, much of their value added work is done to the sound after that file is produced. The raw file is not what’s on the record.
@@ProgRockKeys I have open reel, vinyl and digital and I'm happy listening to any of them to be honest. Accuracy is something I couldn't care less about. I use valves and horns. I just like my music to sound "nice". I get the work and the packaging, but £200 (although of course that's here in the UK) is still quite steep. I'm glad they got the transfers in the first place to be fair, however they were made. I could always record the DSD file to open reel tape 😁
You’re kidding yourself ,Paul, if you seriously think MOFI higher price isn’t warranted simply because they record in DSD at times…
try to get major labels to give you the same quality sound at mass market prices… it ain’t happenin’, bro.
You’re paying for intense labor and care that goes into a final product for the discerning customer.
Have you tried buying a Blue Note Tone Poet release for $30? …t’ain’t happenin’ for sure.
Enjoy the releases you have while you have breath. They are worth what you paid.
If you cant enjoy them anymore because you’ve discovered you made wrong assumptions by non sequitur on how they were made, just sell them and let someone who can enjoy them have them… you’ll find many a buyer on discogs and such the like for those limited edition pressings you have.
I feel cheated by MOFI, because customer pays a lot for the records. We all thought the price is justified due to the complex manufacturing prozess. Thats the lie.
Yep by the logic they're knowingly deceiving customers to sell more records and make more money. At the end we have DSD file on a piece of plastic. They think people don't have DACs to play DSD and we just all fetishise vinyl as a format?
The process isn’t any cheaper because they are using a digital step. If anything it can cost much more. They ship their gear to where the master tape is, fly an engineer out and make a transfer at the location of the master tape. Then they ship the gear back and fly the engineer home.
If they cut directly from the master tape they just get the tape sent to them and cut it at their facility. No shipping or flying around the country expense needed
@@trueaudiofiles8453 Mastering isn't just about the acquisition phase which you seem to only consider. The expense regarding analogue is further down the chain in terms of manual labor and time in all aspects (studio, manpower, etc).
@@Mrsteve4761 I am very familiar with the process as I have friends in the industry. I know there can be issues that arise when cutting from analog that don’t come up when cutting from digital that can add time to the process. My point is that the time and cost to fly the engineer out and ship the equipment out to where the master tape is certainly is not cheap and I would argue that it may even cost more than any extra labor that is involved in creating lacquers from an analog tape.
I don't care about the "purity" of the tape. The records sound great. It is the fact that they obfuscated the process and then charged a premium price under a false pretense. That's what is upsetting. BTW, I am keeping my Mofi's, but I might hesitate to buy more at the premium price.
Exactly. Very well said.
It's a simple issue. They implied "all analog" and they traded on this. Turns out they mislead their customers. No wonder people feel betrayed. It's not a matter of resulting sonics, it's about a callous lack of transparency.
That's a far, far better argument than the one about digital not sounding as good as analog. Misleading people is never a good thing. If MoFi said the recordings were all analog, that's what they should have been. Anything else was deception.
But the kicker here is that all those folks bought those MoFi records and touted how good the "pure analog" sounded, much better than digital, not knowing that there was a digital layer in the middle the whole time. Digital is really that good, folks. Thirty-nine years after the introduction of the CD in America and more than 50 years since the first Hi Fi digital recordings, I wish people would just accept that properly-done, uncompressed digital recording and playback is absolutely transparent to all human ears.
Scott Grammer - People are assuming that a even better sounding pressing couldn’t be yielded without the DSD process.
Press a Lp using DSD and press the same Lp without DSD. Then see if a difference is heard . That’ seems to be the logical and simple way to end the argument
@@cirenosnor5768 the argument will never end... countless studies properly peered by AES prove the digital is transparent... the analogue that goes in comes out at the other end well beyond our hearing limits
exactly, agreed!
Steve, honesty vs deception is the issue. The MOFI records than I own sound the same as they did before. I have no doubt. However, my opinion of MOFI the company is different than before. The Original Master label on their records is blatant deception in addition to other marketing and lack of text. If you bought an amplifier that was named 30w Tube Amplifier and opened it up and found solid state, and the company said tube was just a trademark and the amp still sounds good, would that be cool?
Funny how industry "journalists" are trying to downplay this. Well since they get many releases for free (as promos) I guess they have nothing to complain about.
Steve I don’t think the point is the quality of sound. We all know they sound great. The point is that you are paying a premium for what you are told is something that it is not. It’s lying to the customer.
As to your point about “do we need more bad news”. This is how many of us escape that other bad news.
Peace
Steve, I think the point is that customers have been misled believing that were buying a product advertised as pure analogue and charged accordingly with very high prices. Nothing to do with sound quality. It’s about money
Absolutely
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
I respect Steve and have been a subscriber for a number of years. However I agree with others that say he is missing the point on this one. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the records suddenly sound bad. Customers have made buying decisions (i.e. accepted a high purchase price) based on an understanding of what the product was. Had they known that the product was not end-to-end analogue, they might not have been willing to pay so much. They could sell their Mo-Fi records on, but will surely make a significant loss.
Still weird tho.
Me: "Do your MoFi records sound worse now?"
MoFi dude: "The point isn't sound quality, the point is we were misled they were all analog"
Me: "What's so special about all analog?"
MoFi dude: "Sound quality."
Me: 🤔
@@OwlsRNotWhatTheySeem For the record (pun intended) I am not a Mofi Dude - never bought - just a spectator here.
@@OwlsRNotWhatTheySeem It's a process thing. It's like tricking someone that non-organic food tastes as good (or better) than organic food. But you pay for the process, it might not be the best in the end. But you know it's organic. Same goes for all analogue record pressings. People were paying for what they thought was an all analogue process for their hobby to listen to analogue records. Granted, nobody is talking that mofi DSD can't result in a great pressing. But at the same time they have put out some duds of a pressing out as well.
@@billyelliotx you're caught in the loop. Why were they paying for the process? Is it better for your ear drums? Does all analog keep bugs away? Oh, I know, they sound better. That's the loop: it's not about sound quality. It's about the process. What's special about the process? Sound quality. But it's not about the sound quality. And around and around you go. Life is full of unreasonable beliefs and decisions, collector types no exception. This thing has certainly exposed one with some Audiophile guys.
Steve seems ok about being lied to and paying a premium price for it
I don't care too much about the mastering chain. All MoFi ever had to do was say, "When available, we use the master tapes. If they're not available we use a proprietary process (occasionally digital, occasionally duplicated tapes, or whatever) it's private, and we stand by the sound quality." They ought to just admit it.
Once the question was raised, their answers were evasive and dodgy. It has nothing to do with how their records sound....nor vinyl vs. digital.
Or they could have just put a DSD logo on records that where DSD was used and also made it clear on their site which records are digitally sourced. Cut out the b.s. corporate PR weasel speak. This company is the NOKA chocolate of the vinyl world, full stop.
Spot on, the fact they misleading, a master analog straight to digital is still a master copy, but tell me used a digital version of the master, do not misleading me into believing it was the original analog tape
Yes....and label them accordingly. Simple.
I agree, almost completely.
"All MoFi ever had to do was say . . ."
The problem is that if MoFi had said what they should have said there is no way they'd sell all of those records for the prices they charged. They'd have to lower the prices to somewhere around $50, maybe less. So the problem for the company is not merely semantic. They wanted money that they knew they couldn't get by being genuine.
Not only did they take money from people that they really didn't earn, they insulted and humiliated their customers. They discredited a whole segment of the community that they depend on for income.I think it's quite possible that vinyl on the whole could suffer from this and that would make them real villains in my mind.
Just for the record, I'm not an analog purist. I don't think I'd ever buy a record that I already have on CD. I'm just calling it like I see it.
I care 100% if there's digital in the mastering chain. I bought the Beatles stereo catalog mastered from a digital source. It was awful. Dead and lifeless. The AAA mono releases, a few years later were wonderful, though.
Boils down to this: did the company make false claims about their products and charge a premium based on those claims? If yes, why should the consumer believe anything the company says, ever?
Steve "couldn't care less"
What does that say about him?
And if the company did not state any false claims in its marketing…. Then what?
I have just a bit over 100 MOFI titles… none of the marketing says anything other than it was sourced from the original master tape, and those where the master cant be confirmed as original have the MFSL silver stripe instead.
So, there’s that bit of fact to add to the story.
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 - that he’s not easily given to logical fallacy or blaming others for his own missteps at most, and he simply knows how to sincerely appreciate music at least, maybe? That’s how i perceived his conclusion of “couldn’t care less”.
@@mikewinburn As you have undoubtedly noticed, MOFI's titles have an ORIGINAL MASTER RECORDING banner across the top front of the covers. There's your marketing. Are you saying that didn't influence your purchasing decision (over 100 times)? If not, why did you buy them? Sounds like you may have a case of what psychologists refer to as cognitive dissonance.
@@mikewinburn
To me is says he couldn't care less that a company has been lying to their customers for a decade while charging a premium price at worst and misleading them at best.
Thanks, Steve. I like most of the MOFI records, but I agree that they should've specified that they were using a 4XDSD step. The records also should not cost $125 when you're cutting from DSD. It doesn't require the same time and manpower from what I can tell.
They were lying and misleading their customers for profit, it's as simple as that, and Steve "couldn't care less"
Because the mofi guys are probably his buddies.
He's lost all credibility imo
I think you are missing the point on this one. From my pov, I'm certainly not arguing about the sound quality. But it's the fact they mislead customers to believe they were buying something they weren't.
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
He addressed that exact point between minutes three and five, then moved on.
Exactly.
Not arguing the quality difference but that they mad money on a lie.
Jesus
Pretty simple concept isn’t it!
Glossing over the point is more like it. Complicit.
it's not about the sound it's about corporate lying or misleading about the product. Most vinyl guys agree about the sound quality of MoFi (which is what matters the most), and i'm 100% sure that if MoFi never mislead consumers, this controversy would not exist, and people would just enjoy the great sound of their records.
Their records often don't even sound that great. They have consistently offered good quality vinyl, but the mastering even since the 80s has been spotty at best, and scarcely have they put out definitive versions of albums. They also have some underrated pressings like the Beatles catalog. IMO they did an absolutely fantastic job with those despite them not being quite as good as original UK pressings.
Agreed! "Audiophiles" take themselves much to seriously.
If we took consumer concensus from owners, then we'd have to believe ridiculous crap like "this power cable totally improves the sound".
This would all be great if those records weren't so expensive, just because they were "all analog" which is proven to be wrong. So, even though I like the quality of MoFi, I don't want to pay extra money for fake advertising.
@@timreeves There's so much money tied up in the cable thing that it will never die. A cable (wire) is a conductor and should be treated as such.
Not revealed as being "less than pure", the issue is have they been "less than honest". Strange how you, Fremer, Micallef, (I'm sure there are some other audio industry folks I missed) all seem to have missed the point. I don't think any is suggesting Mofi puts out a bad product. But you have to admit the marketing has been, at least, deceptive. IMHO. 👽✌️
I agree . I don’t think and haven’t heard or read anyone saying the MoFi recordings are bad or don’t sound fantastic. The point is they deliberately deceived their customers. They were falsely led to believe they were purchasing a specific product when in fact they were not. They have EVERY right to be upset. So do after market buyers. If you pay $2K for a one step 45 rpm Abraxas described as being purely analog from the original master tape, devoid of any digital processing only to find out you were duped, you should be angry. Very angry. We all should. It’s a sham, a con, fraud. I have great respect for Steve, my favorite reviewer, but I vehemently disagree and am disappointed he feels this way. If I order organic food and I pay for organic, it better be organic. How great it tastes, how wonderful it looks or smells doesn’t change that. The relevant point, the overriding factor, the driving force in my decision is that it be Organic. It either is or it isn’t. I own no Mobile Fidelity products.
I agree - i will fell idiot to pay 100€ more for a MOFI LP than the SACD - both from same DSD file. Give us the whole story and let us - the
costumers decide.
It's called mis-selling pure and simple. Do you still like your VW car? What's all the fuss about there, do you think? Is it a bro-haha?
We now know that it is not only Mofi that is guilty of this. Check out the livestream by Chad Kassem - compilations issued by Analogue Productions are mostly all DSD (regardless of what the hype sticker may say).
Yes. All people I’ve respected are showing their allegiance to the manufacturers and not the consumer. Their constant harping on the sound instead of the deceptive marketing is telling
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
The controversy is not about 'purity' or anything, but about the fact that they LIED!
I personally think people were feeling ripped off because they believed to be buying an analog recording and of course it was mastered from a digital source and people bought it not knowing this And not being told this. myself would feel pretty peed off too especially after paying a premium price False advertising was involved as far as the customers were concerned
Yet Steve "couldn't care less"
What does that tell you about the man who calls himself an audiophile?
He couldn't care less that an audiophile company has been lying to its customers for profit for a decade
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 It's only a tiny part of the process, they are still 95% Analogue, people are being killed in the War every day, and MFSL still makes the best Vinyl on the planet. Relax, if you are going to sell your MOFI records contact me, and I will buy them for a good price, from you....
I am impressed with what they can do with DSD, and 4 times DSD is probably pretty amazing, and they can fix things that you can't fix in analog but... In a market where all analog is of such well known importance to the consumer, to evade clarity around the subject is really not ok. My Mofi records says master with the ultra analog gain 2 system. They were getting away with a level of deception and got called out on it.
How they can fix things in DSD since DSD can’t be equalized. I guess they are using high suppling PCM.
@@Another_Audiophile Yes...only DSD recorded masters are pure dsd... anything that needs to be edited can only be done in the pcm realm... and no longer pure dsd
@@Licoricedisc Wow this could be another revelation... so if mofi does any remastering to the file (which they claim they do) then that means at some point in the chain its transferred to PCM for the mastering and then transferred back to 4X DSD!
@@Another_Audiophile DXD is 4*DSD and is PCM (352.8k/24 or 32 bit). They can edit it and then bring it back down to DSD.
@@preservedmoose so they will have to convert it from DSd to PCM and then back to dsd
It's the conscious lack of transparency that's the problem, so that they can sell these for $100+. I'm sure most agree that these sound great, regardless of the chain.
I haven't heard ANYONE say the albums aren't good. The problem is it was a lie, a scam, a con, a grift so that MoFi could charge more money. That is the issue.
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
So is the whole vinyl business.
Steve, I think you are missing the real sticking point here, which is honesty and integrity. I could care less what is in the signal chain if the end result sounds good. I just don’t want to be mislead or lied to about what that chain is. If I buy a product and find out after the fact it was not what it was claimed to be, that manufacturer or reseller looses my trust and I will not patronize them again. For example, let’s say Mrs. Audiophiliac buys some fabric to make a shirt for you. That fabric was sold to her as 100% pure silk. During the sewing process she somehow discovers the fabric is actually 30% Rayon. Would she be displeased…..?
It’s exactly that. You ask for this but they give you that. There’s more to the picture than meets the eye.
It’s the lying that hurts. Not the result.
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
I personally do not have a big investment in Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab’s products, but I do understand the argument and feel that it is a valid argument. If you are spending $150 on one album it’s hard to argue that these expensive box sets aren’t an investment. As an investment it would stand that people buying these as an investment are also hoping that their investment has the potential to go up in value - otherwise, if prices always dropped one could wait and buy them cheaper. However, one of the benefits of having an album that was sourced from the master tape (provided that master tapes degrade with time) then in theory you are getting “the best analog transfer” you will ever get.
Now since finding out that these Mobile Fidelity records are sourced from a digital transfer, and digital transfers do not degrade like master tapes do then this “marketing lie” that people like you would like to dismiss actually effects the price on the secondary market. If you say well that isn’t what “true music fans care about” I would respond that that isn’t for you to decide. I would also say that there is nothing stopping them from repressing these digital records with 0% difference or degradation in sound as many times as they want. If you say well the sound hasn’t changed so get over it - would you have the same view if we were talking about a painting like a Picasso - if you bought a Picasso painting thinking it is an original, enjoyed it as such, then found out that it was a reproduction and then was told, your eyes haven’t changed and you enjoyed it before you knew it was a fake so you are being petty - I don’t think anyone would take this stance.
This is a big deal for the industry and should be treated as such - in my opinion. Love your videos but strongly disagree with you on this point.
While I do think that they cheated and should be liable for it, if you are buying a vinyl as an investment, you need some better investment advice. It's like buying NFT in the hopes that it will be big one day. Well, this is even worse because it's just a way for people to justify their expensive hobby. Do you know how regulated the painting industry is - in terms of verifying originality? There is no comparison here. They advertised something, and people bought it without really checking. Some took advantage of it, good for them, but now they aren't able to so good for everyone else.
Just a heads up, doctor…MOFI doesn’t own the license to these recordings. They have a contract to produce a certain number…. So, not to worry, you’re investment is still sound. (Granted if they wanted to change a “limited edition” to mass market, they’d have to pay to do that…. So in that case, yeah, it would lose its investment value.
Loved the Picasso analogy.
150 shouldn't make something an investment. They are only an 'investment' because companies use artificial scarcity to pump up the secondary prices. Knowing full well doing that means their stock immediately sells out, repeat, repeat. So there really is no basis for investment here, in fact you can see what happens when a record is re-pressed esp a long out of print album, say 90s. OMG my investment what happened! It's 1929 Wall Street again. In fact NOPE, there is no investment here. Exactly the same business model exists for Toys, Sneakers, etc.
Here is an example of an investment, I have a signed EP with all 4 Beatles autographs, plus I have letters from experts stating the autographs are legit.
Bravo. I am quite startled by Steve's flippant attitude. It's very disturbing to me that he's taken a couldn't care less about attitude. This video makes me want to take a vacation from this channel for awhile even though I don't own any MoFi LPs and never really liked the company to begin with.
@@quitegenius I know the word "Hero" gets thrown around a lot on the internet but you my friend are a true hero. The world probably doesn't thank you enough for your investment advice. Thanks again!
It appears that most of us agree that (i) these LPs mostly sound great, (ii) but we thought they were AAA (because MoFi either explicitly said so or heavily implied it (depends on the album)) and they weren't. And while they sound great, they coulda sounded even better. Am I losing sleep over it? No. Do I plan to sue them? I do not. Is this a sky-is-falling-moment? It is not. It's just tacky, slimy, and cheesy. When you really look at all the places where they describe the mastering/cutting processes inside the LP, and you compare that with MoFi's shameful double-speak over the last two weeks, you realize this was a key component to how they sell these products; it's important to the MoFi narrative, not some immaterial detail that someone forgot to mention. As a regular buyer who preferred Chad's and Joe Harley's stuff anyway, I won't be buying any more MoFi LPs.
And I don't think this is just going to blow over within the vinyl community. In fact, as an avid follower of this hobby, I can't think of a modern era debacle quite this bad, from a company's perspective. We consumers appreciate that there are many unknowns about an LP's provenance, but that makes credibility even more important. Losing 100% of your credibility is a big deal.
I just cancelled all my mofi pre orders it does not matter if they sound good, if possible I would like to have analog what was recorded in analog in the studio, I hope they go bancrupt but many people would not really care if it is analog or digital cut
Unfortunately, we will start seeing the "name brand" audiophile writers coming out with "the end sound that matters analog or digital" one by one (similar to MQA). I do not blame them one bit. Let's face it, if it were not for MoFi/Music Direct, Audioquest, and Upscale Audio, the advertising revenue for the two large US Audiophile publications would be dismal. The fact is the "deception part" of the messaging. MOST buy a $125 One Step to be closest to the analog source. If the DSD sounds better is irrelevant. It's the fact that MOST thought they were buying a PURE analog mastering chain. I think the writers know this and are trying to twist the argument a tad. Anyway, I do not expect the writers to say anything any different.
100% spot on.
@@recordhead Micallef was first, then Guttenberg...who will be next?
This. The audiophile press should be in the readers corner but this shows they absolutely are in the business of keeping the advertising revenue flowing.
Yup!
I unsubscribed from Micallef without saying goodbye. I'm still on the fence about Steve G.
Steve the issue is not if these MoFi LPs sound good or not, they sound great. The issue is that MoFi is selling a product at a premium in a desiving way as if they cut their products directly from the analog tape. They knew that if they were transparent about the process they wouldn't have been able to sell those albums at those prices so they decided to be opaque from the get go.
Thanks Steve. How would you feel if you were sold a tchesky record (of which you are a big fan as mentioned in a lot of your videos) with the assumption that it was recorded in a church, but years after you discover it was recorded as individual tracks in different studios? Regardless of Sound quality, wouldn't this annoy you at some level ? How about lab grown meat burger using a farm regular meat ?
I think (and apologies if this upsets you) big figures in Audio world like yourself should line-up with consumers in calling any manufacturer or record label doing such practices, "The Audiophiliac" not really caring about it gives MOFI and others more confidence to keep and innovate and such practices in an already niche market.
Thanks again
I agree with this. And he is not alone. Macallef and Fremer have both been very dismissive of MoFi’s unethical and deceptive practices. It does cause me to wonder why. Do they receive review units? Do they have relationships with MoFi or Music Direct? Is there a concern that they might lose access should they come out on the side of the consumer in all of this? Truth is, I don’t know. But it is very disappointing - particularly in the case of Steve. I always assumed he was on the side of the consumer. Clearly not.
@@Andy-rc9db He is going to want to review Andrew Jones's upcoming speaker. Wouldn't want to risk losing access to that. If I was in Steve's shoes I'd be mum on the subject.
@@Andy-rc9db this is the second time i'm disappointed by "The Audiophiliac", the first one being what happened in his video where his guest bashed Andrew Robinson's Wife Kristy, and how Steve just deleted the video and never gave a shit about his viewers nor the other channel runner, and never apologized.
But this one hits harder, him being him the "Audiophiliac" part of the Audio game for 50 years, he really had to stand for something. i guess he has his own reasons, but again his response is soooo similar to the cartoonish way MOFI guys responded in the interview with Mike, reducing this big issue to something very Casual.
No Mr Audiophiliac, MOFI used deceptive Marketing techniques, and did lie to their customers for at least 7 years, so please do not try to make us feel it's an "i dont care" subject
@@amirjubran1845 Fool is the company that wouldn't wanna send it's products to "The Audiophiliac", i don't think this is the Argument, all manufacturers know hi heas reach and notoriety, and if they don't send him, he can eaaasily have them sent by any distributor. (i hope i'm wrong) i think he didn't wanna call them out to not open the door for the reviewers or himself to call-out many other Manufacturers or Labels.
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
It’s pretty straightforward really from my perspective.
They purposely misled their customers, through their own marketing material, and did not correct anyone who spoke about their product as being all analog. That is a complete breach of trust.
I will be keeping my Bob Dylan MOFIs as they are the best copies I have heard. That does not mean I am okay with being purposely misled about the product I’ve been buying.
I agree with others, Steve missed the point. The issue is Mobile Fidelity mislead its customers. I could care less if it is digital or analog. As Duke Ellington says, "If it sounds good, it IS good." Just be honest about the process. What is so hard about that? Chad Kassem and his Analog Productions label is always upfront about the entire process. All analog. If it is not the original master or it is digital, he tells the customer.
In my opinion:
1) It's about a deceptive component that convinced a lot of Audiophiles and Music Lovers the MoFi products were from pure Analogue masters, with no digital processing.
2) However, you had to know there was digital processing ( DSD) with most of it, regardless of which physical media.
3) A large portion of Audiophiles have hung their hats, and egos: on this whole Analogue vs. Digital thing.
Now they feel betrayed, as well as humiliated.
I have several MoFi CD's. Most sound incredibly beautiful. I have no interest in dumping
It also hurts the analog purists to admit that albums they think sound incredible have some digital steps in there. Proof that it does not matter, and you cannot hear it either way, if the cut is done properly.
(Yes I agree the main issue is deception/transparency)
@@notDonaldFagen So I tend to agree with you, which is why I refuse to pay stupid prices based on claims made by record companies. LPs based on high resolution digital recordings are fine with me. Heck, even my early to late 1980s records that say "DIGITAL RECORDING" on the label generally sound very good and they weren't much higher Rez, if at all, than rebook standard. People confuse LP with analog when in fact one has never meant to guarantee the other. But it's no excuse for MoFi to have misled people. Just cuz folks are gullible or misguided doesn't mean they should be lied to.
@@notDonaldFagen did you do comparsion between digital file and analog master tape? may be MOFI records done fully analog would sounded even better
The process of transferring a master mix tape to to a lathe master is even more complicated than Steve implies in this video. As an engineer who's career began in the all analog era, I understood that the mastering process was, as a producer I worked with at the time called it, like sailing boat-very nuanced. The mastering engineer must make eq adjustments as the lathe cut to deal with the loss of treble and bass as you get closer to the center. For that reason, a tape safety was made during this process frequently on 1/4 inch tape at 15ips which is half the speed of the master. ALL subsequent pressings were made from that eqed safety master and the original mix master was stored in the vault. Never forget that none of the major record labels could give a damn about audio quality from the recording session to the final pressing. Sad but true.
I stream so this doesn’t personally impact me but here are my thoughts.
From an audio standpoint Steve is correct, but MOFI is part of a second hobby, the collecting and trading of records.
MOFI’s own promotion materials state, “MOFI engineers begin with the original master tapes and meticulously cut a set of lacquers…every UDIS pressing serves as an immaculate replica of the lacquer sourced.”
People in the record collecting hobby relied on this statement to justify paying the higher prices that MOFI asked or, give the low numbers of product available, higher prices on the secondary market. Would the collectors have paid these prices had they known that “the original master tape” as actually a digital copy?
As another commented wrote, when you buy a classic car thinking it’s all original and find out that it does not have the original engine the car is worth less than you thought it was, even if there is no difference in the driving experience. Jerry Seinfeld was sued recently when he sold a Porsche that he thought was original and it was not.
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
It’s amazing to me people don’t understand collecting and prices. I’ve only got 2 Mofi s so I’m far from a serious collector but let me put it in car speak. If I sold you a numbers matching “70 SS Chevelle for you to find out the engine block was from a “71 you should be pissed. Is it a Chevrolet?, Does it still make you grin? Does it snap your head back when flooring it? Yes yes and yes. But it’s not numbers matching therefore not worth the price paid.
Hey Steve, if the sound’s great, I’m good with it. And I don’t mind great sounding records that have a digital step. For me, it’s MOFI’s obvious deception of their customers. Takes a lot more marketing (and money) to earn customers back than it does to make them. Leadership has nearly missed their opportunity to apologize for the deception. This is business school 101.
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
@@adamlinder4939 yikes!
if you want to play dsd just use good quality dac and forget about vinyl
This goes beyond an "oops" or "misstep", you gotta be kidding.
If they, Mofi, are proud on what they could achieve in terms of sound quality with their methods and procedures - and trusting the recognition they got, they can be proud - then why not tell it? Why hide under ambiguous wordings, trying to avoid the d-word under all circumstances? There was a deliberate decision to do so, and they must have had a reason for this. This didn’t happen accidentally, this was a decision weighing pros and cons. If sound quality is all that counts, then what did they fear?
My guess is it's more about some peoples fixation with analog than anything else really. Someone decided to obfuscate their process to avoid potentially losing analog fixated customers, quite likely this person wasn't really even a hi-fi person... People have emotional reactions to these things, right or wrong objectively... I used to be all into analog, but as tech improved, gear improved etc etc, now I only listen to digital music like Hi-Res, MQA, DSD, ALAQ etc, but if I felt like listening to some older music I'd prefer LP but in some ways because that's how I fell in love with certain albums.
I think Steve might be slightly missing the point here: Its not a digital vs analog issue. It’s an ethical one
Yes the ethical aspect of this story. But I did make the point that masters are next to impossible to track down
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac yup! your video definitely adds another layer to the conversation
The problem for mofi is their lack of transparency,which made them get away with overpricing their records.
Also,Chad Kassem from Analogue Productions said it best; “the question is not whether your album sounds great, it’s whether it can sound even better when using an original analogue tape without digital conversion”.
But does the digital conversation cut out the frequencies inaudible to the human ear like CD did? If not it's all good.
@@antman5474 it does not matter analog to digital conversion is not the same as analog tape which was used to record the music in the studio, if you convert that to digital you better play that digital file on high quality DAC, better if I was after digital mofi recordings I would buy their SACDs instead
You do know analog productions has never at any time or place suggested there is “no digital in our record pressing process.” Just as MOFI never stated it. As you might conclude by non sequitur that MOFI used only original master tape to lacquer, so you might also be concluding AP is only using tape to lacquer…. Just saying.
And a non sequitur is then being your error, not APs or MOFI’s right?
@@dariuszsalamon9441 - agreed! CDs and SACDs only for me. This way i can get master tape quality and never worry how often i play my silver or gold record… it never degrades. I purchased the SACD of thriller within 2 hours of the announcement. Can’t wait to hear it!
@@mikewinburn Little girl music.
I think that you’re missing the point entirely Steve. Remember “ethics” or “integrity”. Not to mention , “deception”.
They lied and charged premium for actually cutting corners. Not analog transfer that they advertised.
So you don’t have problems with them charging ppl $100 for marketing lie? Interesting.
I dont mind digital in the production steps but please charge accordingly, not $125.
This has NOTHING to do with the sound of their production. This has to do with Marketing Omissions. In 2017 they did a video where they said the Vinyl IS AAA, when it is not. They are commanding prices of an AAA when there is a DSD step in the process. Why not have that in their literature??? OMISSION in marketing is the problem not sound of their products
The records all sound as good today as they did when we thought they were AAA cuts, but that’s not the point. Mobile Fidelity was disingenuous in their marketing and sold us high-priced goods under false pretense. If they truly believed that cutting lacquers from DSD transfers resulted in the best possible quality, they could have made that clear and even made that a selling point. Instead they consciously omitted that step in all of their materials that detail the mastering chain. The printed inserts packed into their (ahem) “one-step” releases show an illustration of a tape reel to represent the master with an arrow that points directly to the lacquer. We now know that is a lie, as it should show a hard-drive in between those steps to indicate the interim step of digitizing the tapes. So, yeah, the records may still sound great but that doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t what Mo-Fi advertised them as being.
well SACD is less money I don't want digital records if master tape was analog
To me it wasn't so much an issue that they were doing that, rather the branding and labeling that was a bit misleading. Example - the latest Bowie reissue of Ziggy Stardust plainly states that it was cut from a 192k transfer right there on the cover obi strip for the whole world to see. To my ears it sounds amazing. So the sound quality isn't most peoples' gripe, it was that almost all vinyl enthusiasts assumed that if it said "Original Master Recording", and the original master was a tape, that tape is what it would be cut from directly.
Also, there is the whole other topic of the marketing term "One Step". Now we know it really means "Two Step". The whole concept of "One Step" was that every step in a production chain adds or subtracts from the fidelity. They are adding a transfer step. Now, how much does that transfer step add or subtract? Probably very little. However it could be argued that using the father/mother method of vinyl production wasn't that deleterious either. Most vinyl enthusiasts weren't the ones getting obsessed with steps or the number of them, that was MoFi themselves. You could buy the one step for $100/$120 or the regular father/mother version for $50/60. So if they were going to make a big deal (and expensive) out of "steps" and then purposely omitted one of those steps from their marketing material - that was pretty disingenuous to say the least.
As the old saying goes - The coverup is worse than the crime.
I'm unclear why you reference the outrage but don't refer to the source, and even go out of your way to not discuss it. Music Direct repeatedly lied either by omission or commission regarding the mastering chain of their products. PoetryonPlastic even identified a time they lied to you on this topic back in 2010 when you worked for CNET. Do you not care that they lied to you, and you gave their lies your support by publishing them? Last question, if the mastering chain doesn't matter, and 'purists' are misguided, then why did MoFi/Music Direct repeatedly lie precisely on this point?
Of course he his complicit. However much we love Steve, do we expect him to admit that he helped enable a deception? I think that’s too much to ask. A journalist exists as a journalist only because they lack that aspect of integrity. Otherwise there would be no journalism. Personally, I feel this lack of integrity (being selective about what evils to call out) is near the center and source of what was referred to as “all that’s wrong with the world lately”.
Is it DSD or LSD? I always get the two mixed up.
I still like my MOFIs and they are some of the best sounding recordings I own. The thing that does bother me is that they know that audiophiles prefer analogue transfers and they did thier best to remain vague about their transfer process. They allowed their customers to assume the products were all analogue when they were not.
Here's a statement from their web-site:"First and foremost, we only utilize first generation original master recordings as source material for our releases." Maybe they do sound good, even if they're digitally sourced, but this is a lie and they should cop to it. Think about the 75th anniversary Blue Notes vs. the 80th anniversary and Classic series, let alone the Tone Poet series. The 75th anniversary LPs are fine, but for the 80th and Tone Poet series, BN released some stuff they had already done 5 years earlier on digitally sourced LPs. This time time it was all analogue. Lots of us believe analogue in the mastering chain, from beginning to end, is better. Maybe we're wrong, but MoFi based its marketing on our assumption. Sorry, but this is just not acceptable, whatever the quality of the releases.
By the way, contrast this with Intervention Records' transparency about its sources.
They mislead us. The records still sound the same. But they let us believe for years there was no digital in the chain. Not selling my MOFI's. But the bloom is off the rose when it comes to all these audiophile reissues.
Steve this is one of your best videos ever the way you explained how the recording sessions we’re done and how master tapes were produced was extremely informative.
They charge a AAA price, that’s undeniable.
I just want to add one thing, for music recorded in the pre-digital age, before 1980, perhaps the best way to buy a 100% pure analog LP is go for original pressings! For a lot of folks analog "purity" is crucial, it seems. I get that for sure. I personally go for older pressings when the price and condition are inline.
Shill.
Exactly. Get an OG. I don't care if they're beat up, scratched, marred
I just assume any repress of an album is digital these days. Digital can be done right, but most of the time it's not. I'm pretty sure people thought a low quantity pressing from analog takes was likely expensive, thus the mofi price. But now that they have an infinitely workable DSD transfer and effectively their own 4xDSD transfer vault to re-release their catalogue doesn't make it seem so limited quantity.
Steve doesn't seem most people give a s**t about analog purity. They seem to have a bigger issue with getting lied to and ripped off by MoFi. It would be like you giving a BS review because you were told that you could keep the gear. We get it it's not the Ukraine Crisis but it would still suck and affect how people feel about your reviews if they found out you were FOS like MoFi.
Steve, this isn’t a purity test. Please stop with this nonsense. It’s about transparency, ethics and straight up misleading your customers. The fact you don’t seem to understand this, and I hate to say it, but I now need to question yours.
It's not about people thinking they sound bad. It's about MoFi misleading the buyers. They knew if they published that there was a digital step involved they couldn't sell as many. What if your Cornwall's were nothing more than Panasonic Thrusters on the inside? Would you still like them or be upset that you were misled? I own zero One Steps. For me, the biggest fall out from this is the "oh well" attitude from reviewers I once trusted.
Thank you for another wonderful lecture, professor. Made my day :)
I wonder how this will be handled in Stereophile magazine. MoFi is a major advertiser.
People who defend MoFi here are missing the point. Main issue is misrepresentation of the product and charging premium for it. Imagine you bought a Ferrari, and it drives great and gives you pleasure. Later you discover that instead of Ferrari engine they installed a Toyota engine with similar amount of horse powers. Would you be upset or would you say - who cares, it still drives great? Would you go back to Ferrari and demand to have a real Ferrari engine or would you keep the car as is and "enjoy it"?
If for one's enjoyment only, I see no issue (in fact, that Toyota engine will run until time eternity, unlike the other). However, go ahead and try to resell that "Ferrari" with the Toyota engine to another who expects a genuine pedigree in their purchase (e.g. Ferrari purist). I see the analogy as the same with a record of a supposed (analogue) pedigree. Because this musical hobby is not only for one's personal enjoyment but is very much also a business proposition regarding the resale market, I can understand how some feel cheated and believe they are now holding onto distressed goods.
The real controversy is how Music Direct (MOFI) has stayed open this long with a owner like Jim Davis who is known for temper tantrums and punching holes in walls. Terrible place to work. He also hoards all low numbers of cds and vinyl #001 to #099 to resell higher later on in the secondary market. Shady business practices. Many of us former employees have been in his home because he forced us during work hours to move furniture for him. HE DOES NOT even own a turntable or any vinyl!!!
Misleading, deceptive , manipulative, are all adjectives that come to mind over this. Yeah the records sound great, but people were lead to believe they were getting something special for $125 even though they didn’t say it was all analog. They led people to believe it and made no effort to correct it, they profited off of it. People were knowingly duped. Pretty sucky if you ask me.
nice you mention rudy van gelder...man! those early 60's (and late 50's) jazz albums recorded in his NJ studio are simply legendary!!
I am all for analog but it is funny that almost everyone (some claim they heard it) did not notice the digital in the sound for decades.
This is purely about mis-selling of MOFI products to us all. Their business practices have opened them up to losing a significant proportion of their previously loyal customer base and possible class action-type lawsuits. The high quality sound engineering is not disputed. Trust has been lost and that will be difficult to recover.
I like "some" MoFi pressings, I'm nowhere near the camp that feels a certain label is the definitive pressing of whatever. I care about the sound, I don't care who presses it or how, if it's from the original tapes, yay. That being said, some time ago, MoFi did give a small explanation of their pressings. Silver labels were mastered from the "Best available source", while Original Master Recordings were "Mastered from the original analog tapes whenever possible", both of those statements while being accurate, leave a lot of grey area, but again, I don't need to know ALL the gory details of "how". It should be interesting to see how this plays out. In my opinion, it'll blow over and the greater majority of people will continue to purchase MoFi pressings. Look at it this way, so many complain about after market pricing of variant vinyl from RSD, but, someone is still buying them at overinflated pricing. There will be those who swear them off for whatever reason, I think the "marketing" spin being delivered over the years is what may bother the "purists" in the hobby. Again, it's not occupying my time enough to care, I still look for the best sounding album, yes, I'm not a fan of the companies marketing method, but we'll see how strong the convictions of the consumer end up being.
Hey Steve, hope all is well, thank you for taking the time to make these great informative videos,so the first step 1 I purchased was Yes- Fragile all I can say is that the vinyl was noisy on my low #ed pressing even after a good cleaning, for people who are willing to pay the bucks mofi commands they should at least have better quality control
I’d figure I’d try another one which was Santana- Abraxas & yes that one sounds incredible
So my outcome is if they sound up to audiophile standards TO ME then the source they are cut from does not bother me as long as they make my system shine
"It's the purity test for them. It's not the end result". This is so true. I love music. Not the gear. Not the media. Let's just rock out!
I don't own Mo-Fi vinyl simply because of the price. I imagine existing owners are getting uptight because far too many have bought the Mo-Fi LPs in part because they see it as them as the best of the best and therefore an investment and I suspect they now feel less confident about their investment in Mo-Fi albums.
I buy LPs to play and enjoy, not as an investment and as we know (or should know) the value of any investment can fall as easily as it can rise.
It's upsetting the influencers who bought in full scale. Even making videos about how much thier collections have increased in value, how rare their newly pressed albums are etc. I'm actually kind of glad it happened so maybe MoFi can have a course correction and leave the speculators, flippers and influencers out this time.
Hey Steve, this vid spurred a question: With all the master tapes that are apparently floating around in the world, is it possible that there are master tapes still in existence from Steely Dan and others that were lost in the Universal fire a few years back? Just curious. It would be awesome if there are still copies of those analog gems floating around.
I may get some eye rolls with this, but when I purchased the Simon and Garfunkel one-step of Bridge overTroubled Waters and listened to it, I suspected that the nearly non-existent background noise sans hiss was suspect. I still have the album because the sound is superb! My thought then was that it was bumped to digital at some point, because that is the only way to virtually completely remove background noise; that is usually done through a program like Adobe Audition, which I use professionally. The digital process and noise removal is a compromise, but in most cases much more tolerable than tape hiss! I DO understand some people feeling deceived, and Mo-Fi will need to tactfully deal with it for those people. As far as Santana's Abraxas is concerned, I was not able to get the one-step, but instead I purchased the SACD. Now that I know that it was bumped to DSD, I feel that I saved almost one-hundred dollars by paying $35 for something that is just as good as the one-step, without pops resulting from dust landing on the record! And yes, I am also a vinyl junkie, but get over it people!!!
The placebo effect comes to vinyl.
I think a potentially good outcome from this “Broohaha” is that MoFi have now agreed to include a “SPARS”-like code on their record covers to identify how their records are made. Chad Kassem has said Analogue Productions will also do this. To this end Intervention Records (and I’m sure others) already have a label on their covers indicating their record is 100% analog. Having the audiophile record labels universally display a standardised code and be absolutely transparent about their manufacturing process would be a great outcome. It won’t change the sound of the records, but at least we’ll know exactly what we are buying.
Don't give money to jerks
So you missed school on the day when it was taught that it is wrong to lie? Or is it the fact that they have been caught lying.
Thanks, Steve! Excellent as always. The things of which you speak are precisely why I enjoy the old Sheffield lab direct to disk recordings of the 70's-80's. Though there are not that many, I really like hearing (as close as possible) that which was played & recorded, without some audio engineer tweaking and twisting things to get the sound he wants. I do not want a "middle man's" impressions or interpretation of what the music should sound like, and it's hard to find those kinds of recordings today.
Thank you, Steve. Great explanation on what the mastering engineer does and what mastering is. I completely agree with your assessment of the situation.
The point you're missing Steve is that a lot of audiophiles are convinced that
A. It's all about the music
B. Analog is superior to digital
C. Digital imparts a sound that ruins music
D. Digital loses something that can never be retrieved
E. They can hear the difference
If you believe those five things (which I personally do not) then any step that converts the recording to a digital form loses the full content and beauty of the analog recording. And if you believe that, then why would you ever buy a vinyl record that was made with a digital step in the process? If the master is a 4X DSD file and you want the best possible sound, why wouldn't you just buy 4X DSD files? And why would those 4X DSD files need to cost so much?
Do you really not understand that this controversy means, for audiophiles who ascribe to the beliefs listed above, that vinyl with a digital step in the process is essentially a waste of time because it's categorically not really the best possible sound quality?
Again let me state, I don't believe in the idea that analog is better than digital. I don't even believe it's "all about the music " I think stereo is fun because of the equipment and the technology, and good music is a nice perk of the hobby. I'm a HiFi nerd who likes playing with the stuff as much as he likes music. I'd gladly own any of those MoFi records because I know they're well made, but I get my records from less expensive sources most of the time. There's no way I'm ever going to pay those prices for vinyl, certainly not for the sound "quality." If I want what I believe is going to be the best possible sound quality, at least as far as medium is concerned, I'll just buy a high res digital copy.
If you look at the controversy and you have any concern for sound quality, this pretty much kills any reason to buy vinyl from them, no matter what angle you look at it from. Either digital is better in which case you should go ahead and buy digital files, or analog is better in which case these records don't qualify, or it doesn't matter in which case there's no reason to spend over $100 on a record.
Again for clarity, I'm in the "what sounds good to me is ultimately all that matters" mindset. But that means I'm not going to spend that much money for something I could get for far less. The value of a really well made record obviously remains, regardless of whether or not a digital phase is employed in the production, but for many people, the primary impetus to buy the MoFi One-Step pressings was to have a pure analog copy. If you are one of those people, this is a punch in the gut and I can absolutely see why people are upset about it. It doesn't make sense for me to tell them to just stop caring because I don't share their priorities.
I’m annoyed and feel duped! I wouldn’t mind a a digital step like they do if the recording sounded great. I just don’t like the sneaky way they did not tell us. The head of marketing should be fired.
...the debate starts and ends with one word (I fully agree with M.Fremer here): transparency! The customer has to know what he buys, before he decides. That's all.
I love their SACDs. I feel it gets me close to that master tape than vinyl , more often than vinyl does.
It's obvious deception. I am surprised you don't find this is so wrong. They know what they are doing.
I'm a digital guy. I find the whole thing kind of humorous.
well you should listen to Kind Of Blue from UHQR record and compare that to the best digital transfer you would be surprised
Long time listener Steve, but I can not believe that you don't get why its pissed people off .No one wants to be lied to. Especially considering that we're getting lied to about something were buying.
You probably don't mind getting lied to, which makes me worry about how honest you are......
I am enjoying the "controversy" . Don't own any Mofis but love the drama. If this is the biggest problem we have at the moment then the world has just become a better place.
It‘s missleading advertisement if you tell people, who buy records for over 100bucks, you are using the mastertapes and put them „in one step“ on vinyl, and you actually use a dsd file. It‘s as wrong as selling non organic food as organic.
Exactly!
I really rate the sound of the Mofi albums I have and will still buy more. But it’s wrong how they’ve let us believe that the records are all analog . Reckon the prices of the albums should now be less
MoFi charge all analogue prices for what is essentially an SACD
These are great sounding LP's, still have 4 of them..
I am not upset considering that I only buy vintage LP, some of them like DG labels were proud to show "digital recording" on the cover !-) For the rest I had always prefer SACD or CD with DSD upsampling. So I am not surprised that MOFI followed the same path to cut they records...I tried to record SACD on audio tape and the result was surprisingly good. The only bad news is for analog snob willing to pay fortune on some good LP DSD sourced recordings and refuse to admit how good and mature digital sound is today (flac/cd/sacd). The LP business and hype was very lucrative, now it seems that CD/SACD are back in popularity regarding physical collection...and this is the "bad "news for silver discs lovers like me because prices will go up now. Hopefully I already built my dream collection during these last years.
Deal with the past and proceed with caution as a consumer. Since you mention the Stones/ABKCO SACDs, the DSD sourced vinyl cut at that time (mastered by RL) is considered some of the best sounding pressings of those albums... but they are labeled as digitally sourced
I'm not dumping my MoFi pressings. I am upset that they were not truthful in their process. They omitted the digital transfer step intentionally, because they knew they wouldn't be able to ask $100 per record if they'd included the information.
I enjoyed hearing your take and stories on this subject! Just like a Mastering Engineer's opinion of how it sounds, I decide with my own ears! :)
I find it interesting that the analog purists that claim they can tell the difference between analog and digital, loved these lps thinking they were all analog.
They can't tell anything, it's all bull crap just like those wine snobs.
I like Steve and love his channel, but think he missed the point on this one. It’s simply about transparency- not sound. If you pay your own money and believe it to be one thing, snake oil or not, you want to know that the ingredients are honest. It’s not that it may sound better or be “superior” it’s about trusting the company or individual you are dealing with. Mofi was deceptive. They may sound great, but they flat out were sketchy. That’s just disappointing.
Hi Steve,
1. Yes, certainly if a person feels that there has been some misrepresentation, then that’s for them to work through or act on.
2. After watching today’s “Audiophiliac” installment, I paused and said to myself, Wow! That was a TED talk quality presentation.
And that’s why I stay subscribed.
Thanks for great vid. It so refreshing to hear you ask the main question of how did record sound BEFORE and how does it sound AFTER learning about mofi's mastering? I think all this drama is more about audiophile egos than actual quality of mofi and digital. It wasn't an issue at all 3 weeks ago.
A pragmatic view: If I’m buying vinyl…I want it to be all analogue. Otherwise there is no need to have it on vinyl simply because vinyl is a medium that takes up a lot of space……and I’m running out of space after many, many years of collecting. So if you can make such a great record from your digital file, just sell me the file in some digital format….don’t imply that its all analogue; and forgo all the “one step”, 180 gram silent vinyl, ornate boxes, heavy tip-on jackets, and foil lettering histrionics. Just sell me the digital file at a much cheaper price point.
Yes, There are fall worst things going on in the world, and people talk about them on political websites. This is being spoken about in the vinyl community and they feel they were purposely deceived. What MOFI did was simply fraud and that is wrong. Some of the people who purchased these albums had to make budget sacrifices to do so. Don't tell me that the people at MOFI, didn't know that the majority of the purchasers were being made with the belief that they were 100% analog. I think what MOFI did should be against the law.
Indeed against the law!!
For us Canadians, some of these Mofi releases are closing in on 200 bucks! It says "Ultra Analog". But it's anything but so we have a right to be pissed..... Scammed
A voice for Reason in an Age of insanity, THANK YOU!
If it sounds great, I don't really care if it's analog or digital or what the transfer process was. We get so caught up in all the nitty gritty that we tend to lose sight of the objective - music that sounds amazing whatever the format.
Sometimes the destination is is more important than the journey embarked on to get there.
So, why don't MoFi skip the expensive pressing process and just make their digital files available for sale? Money. They know people who have already spent a ton on a turn table and want to hear all that the analog medium has to offer are willing to pay buffalo bucks for a new analog pressing. And MoFi lied. It's not like digital hasn't been part of the vinyl process for a long time, but it was stated by labels using a digital step, and advertised as an improvement in the overall product. MoFi claimed, suggested, and hinted, the reason you're paying tons for their products is because it's ANALOG from start to finish. But then what do you expect in a country where medicine kills you? This is just one more story about business giving their own customers the finger, behind their backs.
The digital files are basically equivalent to the master tape. A direct 4X DSD rip of a 30 IPS master tape has fantastic sound, and could be used to master LPs and CDs. Do you think any record label is going to make that available to the public?
@@vinyl1Earthlink You miss my point. It's a digital file. It can be copied and pasted and converted into a multiplicity of readable formats that rival any output from a vinyl source using a much less expensive DAC. The bottom line is, don't lie about your product. Tell the buyer what they're getting. Otherwise they'll be justifiably pissed off and you will lose both customers and credibility, not only for your company but the vinyl resurgence as a whole.
Hi Steve 😊
One Word transparency. The cost is not a minor thing. If you charge 125$ pr reccord, then i as a consumer i would like to know what i am bying…By the way it much cheaper to produce the high Rez files into vinyl. It could sound good thow. Acoustic sound is very transparent 😊
Have a good one Steve
Thomas
I became an audiophile about 25 years ago (38 years old),after being a music lover since I could remember a song. At about 12 years in I caught myself listening to the equipment during one of my favorite lps. I was stunned. It broke my heart. I had become a sound snob. It took some effort but I am a music lover again. That doesn't mean my equipment doesn't sound good ,or that I buy shitty pressings. Priorities.