People making the argument that just because I compare it to the Gaede, it's not that strong. No, it really is that strong, lets compare some quad launcher torp reloads at T5-T8 MM, which this ship will face; Shiratsuyu 101 sec Farragut 88 sec Mahan, Sims 87 sec Gallant 96 sec Anshan 79 sec (a triple launcher) Leningrad 92 sec Akizuki, Kagero, Harekaze 112 sec Gaede 90 sec *T-61 68sec* ... you were saying?
What would you nerf? I vote the torpedoes, lower speed and/or range. On the other hand, I've been thinking the entire line up to Z-46/Z-52 needs some love, mostly in concealment department. I was excited to unlock the Gaede, but found it very frustrating to play.
As premium ships are meant to be "extraordinary" from the usual national flavor, seeing this is a torp-focused DD (as opposed to the normal German gunboats), I disagree with nerfing the torps. I would actually nerf the guns, to keep its spirit of the only German torpedoboat in the game. All the other German DDs are more or less nice gunboats already.
Using the same gun reload as the Gaede smaller guns use would be a start. There is no need to give T7 German DD reload on a T6, or alternatively, WG can consider buffing the Gaede gun reload. However, do note that all the 3x3 IJN DDs also gets similarly fast reloads, so T-61 is not necessarily much more powerful than those with 10km torps like Fubuki and Akatsuki which are all 76s base, and those have torps that hit even harder than Shinonome(Fubuki does 16k). I do agree T-61 would be best T6 torp boat in this state, and not a healthy release if Gaede is not changed. Similarly how Minsk and Leningrad compares...
Tsaryu Klannisay, if you're playing German any DDs as pure gunboats then you're doing it wrong. They all have excellent torpedoes. Not all of them have reloads this fast (though some of the lower tiers actually do...like the much-maligned T-22 is actually an awesome torp boat), but you sure as heck should be relying on your torps whenever possible.
1940 Type After the invasion of the Netherlands in 1940, the Dutch shipyards were almost undamaged. Therefore the Kriegsmarine contracted three Dutch shipbuilders to build some smaller vessels. Classed as "Fleet torpedo boats" (Flottentorpedoboot) the 1940 Type was more a destroyer than a torpedo boat, with a full load displacement of 2,566 tons and carrying four 5-inch guns and eight 21-inch torpedo tubes in two quadruple mountings, and was based on Dutch designs. Twelve were ordered in 1940-1941, and numbered T.61 to T.72; but only eight were laid down by 1942 of which three were launched (the other five were destroyed on the slips); in 1944 these three incomplete ships (T.61, T.63 and T.65) were transferred to the Baltic Sea to be completed, and T.61 was torpedoed off the West Frisian Islands in September 1944, while the other two were captured by the Allies at Kiel and scuttled after the war.
I didn't even knew these existed; I thought the last Fleet torpedo boats were the 1939 "Elbing-class" (the T-22) before Germany stopped surface vessels for U-boat mass production.
I as a dutch man would not spend on cent on it as it is a german ship . and has no dutch navy history nor was it build for the dutch navy. The closest thing to a dutch destroyer is the N- class british designed destroyer that got transferd to the dutch navy in 1942 and is now a pan asian DD. the gadja mada .
Yep it definitly is weekend. Got a CL in my team today, who launched torps at enemys, that were 12km away. He sunk 3 Ships with them. 2 friendly Cruisers and himself....
The T-61/1940-class t-boats were a german redesign of the two Dutch Gerard Callenburgh DDs largely left incomplete when the Germans invaded the Netherlands. One has to wonder why WG chose this, largely unfinished class, when the Callenburgh itself was commissioned by the Kriegsmarine as ZH-1 and Isaac Sweers served in the RNLN. Would be interesting to see the difference between this variant, with the 4x127 and the 5x120 (likely Dutch guns) on the Callenburgh and 6x104QF British on the Sweers. Maybe the difference in speed (the fully Dutch boats could do ~37.5 kts), the additional guns and possibly better AA (2x2 40mm bofors on Hazemeyer mounts, 4x.50 cal) could nudge them into a higher tier.
2:47 As of the latest version of wowsft.com (June 14, 2018), the Gaede has a superior near aura with an extra 12dps at 2km and slightly inferior medium aura with 15 DPS to the T-61 at 3.5km (T-61 has 20 dps at that range).
Here's the WIP intro again where WG attempts to stick it in our face cuz they think we are too blind to see the regular WIP watermark in the top left corner Kek
One reason to play the Gaede is because it has acces to the 150s. Even though they aren't really better than the 128s but they make the Gaede besides the Z-23 an outstanding DD.
Gun reload 4s check Torp reload 68s check AA ... yes, WG nerfed the AA. Lulz Seriously is the final version weaker in any significant way than what Flamu and Flambass tested months ago? Cuz I don’t see it.
He left us when we got to the cap, i was in one of the bismarcks insted of helpping us and go north he runs away making us turn and sink from torps an he spam. And he complains that we are nott suporting him. Sorry for bad english.
If the enemy Cv had simply struck you at 2:40 when you left your smoke right under his bombers, your game would have ended there and then with nothing achieved, bottom of the scoreboard, etc. Also, notice how none of the usual sealclubber ships are around. No Belfasts, no Saipans or Kagas, no Kamikazes, Gremyashychys, etc. Instead you use a game where enemy AS Hiryuu is oblivious enough to get solo'ed by a strike Ranger, an enemy Amagi manages the incredible feat of catching every single one of your torps despite the bloody obvious smokescreen, Shinonome has no idea what is German DD hydro, and 3 BBs end the game being fish in a barrel for your torps. If you had been more patient and launched 1 launcher at Gneisenau and 1 at the Tirpitz you could have gotten five kills too. I don't see how this proves this ship is that OP. It is a hybrid. It's torp DPM is not as good as the dedicated torp boats. The gun DPM is not as good as the dedicated gunboats. The turret traverse is arguably bad. Hell, its gun DPM is even worse than some t5 and even t4 DDs. It's not particularly stealthy or fast either. It's just a decent all-rounder. Nerf the torp reload slightly and it'll be balanced.
I wonder what happened to this ship? I kept an eye on the shop but till now it didn't pop up, maybe I missed it? I would really like a German premium DD for some extra credit and captain training.
PIcked it up this morning. First match was tier 6. Cleaned house. I am a decent player, but not great. The T-61 made taking top score easy. 2 DD kills in the first 3 mins, assist on 2 more DD kills, 2 BBB kills at the end to win the game on points. It really is a tad gross. Used my 14 point Z-23 Captain, don't have Torp Arm yet.
Considering the current mm for t6 I wouldn’t mind having this be a little op, as it would allow an average player to have a decent game even if uptiered to a t8 game
t6 MM isnt that bad anymore (my opinnion), i often get into t5-7 or t5-t6. The t8s got the real horrible matchmaking, i am in 8/10 matches against t10....-
Cpt Poell yeah, tier 8 is getting the shit kicked out of it right now. Considering how sharp a change in match ups I'm convinced they "tweaked" the mm. This isn't just people progressing through the tiers. Wish they'd just admit defeat already, strict +2 mm is just a dumb idea and the excuse of "it keeps que times down" doesn't wash anymore especially at peak times.
and with all the wallet warriors, which can afford the premium camo on TX ships, there is no need to play anything lower than TX. Wargaming is careless with their P2S policy, so i do care less about this game.
So the T-61 is a "Flottentorpedoboot 1940" which is the successor of the maligned T-22 "Flottentorpedoboot 1939" or more commonly known as the Elbing class torpedo boat. Also, unlike the Ernst Gaede, the T-61 actually existed in real life. Given how well in performs and and WG knowing this, I wonder what was the point in making the paper ship Ernst Gaede before moving towards actual destroyers for the German DD line & not have the line be (...T-22 -> T-61 -> Z1 ->...).
While the torpedo reload is completely bananas I'd say the rest of the differences are actually the Gaede being really mediocre, I mean in comparison to the T-22 before it the Gaede is fantastic but to other T6 DDs it's still rather meh
Do you think they might be using the T-61 as a test bed of potential buffs for Gaede? It's like they've looked at it and fixed what's really bad with Gaede. Really wish they'd get back to the same logic of old premiums in their games, some special quirk but never outright better than fully upgraded silver counterpart. They need to get back to promoting better credit income and crew trainer as the big thing on the premium ships.
Of course it’s going to look great compared to Gaede, the 150’s on that ship are the only thing it has going for it. Both of the guns it gets to choose from are terrible against other DD’s, due to the horrible HE alpha and reload, it’s forced to play as a torpedo boat, with some of the worst concealment for its tier, a horrible smokescreen, and horrible maneuverability, that has enough HP to last a couple more salvos. And let’s be honest, that HP is not so much a strength, as it is necessary compensation for the fact that without it, it may be the worst gunboat in T6. (And the concealment makes it difficult to play as a torpedo boat, as well.) With that in mind, is it possible that this ship is meant to test some potential low/mid-tier German DD buffs? I can’t imagine that it’d be too difficult to lower the reload of the Gaede’s guns, torps, or even give it a concealment buff, (the latter of which has already been done to the T-22,) unless it was too overpowered. Which is why they would want to test it first, obviously. If it’s just outright overpowered for its tier, that’s one thing. They’ll need to nerf it in some way. But overpowered compared to Gaede? That’s more than likely going to be fixed through buffing the tech tree ship, rather than nerfing the premium. (Again, assuming the premium isn’t just straight up overpowered.) EDIT: There was an extra space in the parenthetical statement about concealment marking it difficult to play as a torpedo boat, and “nerfing” at the end of the last sentence was autocorrected to “needing”, which I had to correct.
The Gaede might be underpowered, sure, but just straight up assuming that the t61 is a test for buffs to the mid tier German DDs is a HUGE jump in my opinion. If they wanted to test buffs to the Gaede, why not just put it on the test server or tune it slightly? Given all the overpowered premiums WG has released, I would not be surprised if this is the final version of this ship. There's room for debate tho. I'm just a cynical asshole who only sees the worst in WG
Agreed. The t-22 was absolute dogshit and gaede is only better if you get stupid omahas and other light cruisers giving you broadsides for days. Smoke-hydro cap contesting with the mid-tier german DDs has been hit hard by the smoke-firing nerf, it makes sense to give them a buff to compensate.
JustYourAverageGamer This wouldn’t have been the first time they used a premium to test changes before applying them to the tech tree, though I can understand it being a bit excessive in this case. One might argue that if you put it in the public test, you wouldn’t get enough people using it to get the information you need.. but that’s suggesting that they think they’ll get more people buying the premium than playing the ships in the public test, and that’s not true. (Hopefully) As for tweaking them slightly, I wouldn’t want to be the one that has to change the stats of multiple ships every update/patch, hoping that this time they won’t be too weak, or otherwise, overpowered. As I said before, they’ll probably nerf it if it’s too overpowered for its tier. But if it’s only overpowered compared to its tech tree counterparts, it’s more likely that those ships are getting buffs.
How does this ship stand up to the gallant? I'm curious, because I'm not very good with DD's so I'm not really that knowledgable about how their stats compare either
am i playing a different game? cause for me t5 is the new t6. as a t5 and t6 ship 95% get in the t5-7 bracket, same as t8 in the t8-10 bracket. t6 isnt a big problem anymore, sure, you almost never get to be top tier, but you almost never are bottom tier either
really depends on the time, the server and your shiptype. In the evening on EU there are a ton of T6 BBabies, so if you play a T6 BB you will get uptiered a lot but you will have a lot of Top tier games as a DD.
Yes, but just because you're good in a nation's premiums, doesn't mean you're automatically good in the main tech tree. Sometimes the playstyles differ too much.
WG is unlikely to listen. This ship will get released as-is, tons of players will buy, BBbabies will pitch a fit and then WG will claim total ignorance of it being OP. After they nerf it they'll offer doubloons to pacify the lemmings who jumped on the T-61. No thanks.
Developers, Supertesters and other special contributors will be able to test: German tier VI destroyer T-61 Italian tier VII cruiser Duca degli Abruzzi French tier VI destroyer Aigle Japanese tier VII battleship Ashitaka Roma is not yet avaible for him.
Flamu what do you mean, T6s get a lot of T8s? Don't T8s constantly get matched with T10s now? Isn't that why T7 is the new T5 ever since they made T4s into a newbie tier like T1-3
haha.. "who cares." lmao..gooood morning WoW(s)!! (Edited for convenience due to the hysterical obviousness of Flamu's cavalier reaction in a willful distortion of destruction, rioted in calm. I nearly spit coffee all over my monitor..... the edit is well worth it!)
i WOULD make an argument that T61 is not OP , it is more that Gaede is UP as fuck... they could release the T61 as it is and just buff Gaede to the same levels as T61 , plus minus some thing here and there , to make them diferent :)
I have the Sims, its good has fletcher guns so better rotation and DPM.. only 4 guns and you have better turning and speed. But your concealment is 6.6km with conceal expert and camo. You can get farragut torps so more YOLO torps. Or ypu get the range of 9km torps that reload 68 seconds, but have crap speed of 55 knots and only due 8500 dmg . Makes the T 61 seem mich better has slight draw backs than sims but in my opinion all managable and useable
They should just bump the T-61 to T7 and charge more money for it. Win-win. I mean, I like my Shinonome, but this thing would just straight-up shit on her in every single aspect other than rudder shift and smoke duration...
The Gaede maybe, but the Maas? The Maas is hilarious! Her AP is able to do full-damage to enemy DDs, her HP is great for the tier, the Torpedoes are good, and the Hydro's always a plus. She's probably my second-favorite DD in the game, right behind the Z-52.
I don't think it's super super OP like Orion, Belfast, Kamikaze or old Gremyashychy. Yes, it is certainly stronger than Gaede, and arguably stronger than Gallant. It's more that the Gaede is kinda bad. Not totally terrible but overly gimmicky. It gets german 150mm guns but not the 1/4 HE pen you get from karlsruhe to nurnberg. You really need to have cruisers give you broadside as Gaede for you to get easy citadel hits and exploit your 150mm calibre. When you take into account the nerf to smoke firing gaede basically cannot use the smoke-hydro combo against other DDs to contest caps reliably anymore, it's too easy for a last stand DD to just counter-rush you and neutralise your spotting advantage. Say what you will about the torpedoes, those on the Fubuki and Shinonome still exceed the torp DPM of t-61 by far. If a Farragut facerushes you in t-61 you still lose the hypothetical gun/knifefight. If the Fubuki-classes engages your team at max torp range while you engage theirs at max range, they will easily outdamage and outcarry you. If you run into a Hatsuharu or Gallant, it will likely be counterspotting you to no end. If you still think it's needing a nerf, consider the following: You are at a matchmaking where you can meet the stealthiest radar cruiser in the game which eats you for breakfast, the most strong DDs tier-for-tier(Kamikaze/Fuujin and Gremyashychy), the stealthiest high tier ship in the game(Kagerou) and most sealclubbery ships in the game(e.g. Saipan/Kaga). All of these guys regularly get together to sealclub in 3 man divisions that have 60-90% WRs. I do think a premium DD would otherwise be a hard sell if it didn't have some advantages to level the playing field. It's also the most overdue premium in the entire game. Ever single other line has had premiums much sooner than this, often multiple premiums... the german DDs have waited long enough. Give them a decent ship.
T-61 is better than anything in its tier (imo), but Gaede is pretty much rock bottom, except on some maps. In terms of meeting sealclubbers: WG needs to get their head out of their ass and sort out matchmaking. There's plenty of players at any tier nowadays, except late night tier X. Might aswell limit MM spread to 1 tier, would reduce sealclubbing in the process and would make it easier to balance airplane hp vs AA.
oh no, wargaming please....you have awoken something in me now...must....resi....WE NEED SOME DUTCH SHIPS IN THE GAME LONG LIVE THE KING ugh, uhmmm. Sorry for that folks
well but untill you got concealment upgrade you have to hide endlessly because of detection about 7,4 and range torps 8km and that all about german ships...but I like them because they are so agile...and decent gunboats...but in reality they are only good tier 9-10
Shawn Elliott I like Gneisenau more ._____. the 380mm guns are my absolute favorite onces in the game and on t7 when you get Top Tier 99% of the time you can overmatch all ships and your AA and Secondarys are stronger
Thel 'Vadam Sure, when you actually hit anything lol. I did 25 matches in the Gnau. Sold it and bought the Scharn to free XP past that nonsense. Never looked back. I prefer Nagatos 410mm which are damn near pinpoint accurate at T7. Nagato and Warspite I know if I am going to delete someone before I pull the trigger that's how accurate and devestating they are. Fuck those 6 shotguns the Gnau has
Shawn Elliott To be honest after a while I got very good accurracy with them. .....But still it's meaned as a brawler with ther torps and powerfull secondarys. ....and I love brawling 😄
Gnau has it moments sure, but more often than not the Gnau is a host of missed opportunities. The kicker for me was a Leander 3km away. All 6 shots went into the water and my aim is pretty good in Warships. Any other BB in that situation would have resulted in a Dev Strike. That was one thing I didn't miss after finishing that line and moving on to other BB lines, was that horrible German dispersion. You don't realize how bad it really is till you get into ships like the IJN or HMS BB's. If you love brawling then you'll love the Scharnhorst even more. Trust me. There are definitely prems I regret buying, Scharn is definitely not on that list. Don't be fooled by those 283mm guns. They still pack quite a wallop, esp with thier high fire rate, which is even lower with AR perk. If you've mastered and like the Gnau, then your battle performance will skyrocket with the Scharn.
Gneisenau thoughts: 9:50: ugh DD shooting from smoke what a pest 9:55: oh shit torps, well at least i only ate one 10:20: ok guess he gave up on shooting me, maybe i can stay alive a bit longer, and there's no way his torps are reloaded already. Maybe i can even rush and torp that queen elizabeth over there 10:35: WTF?! CHEAT! HAX! UNFAIR!
**edit** nevermind, i actually timed it now... holy shit, those torps *are* fast! for some reason it looks like it's accelerated, but then again, you're running at 75fps... probably that's why it looks... hmmm... more fluid... or so... :/ is it just me, or is the video playback slightly accelerated? can it be you accidentally nudged the "velocity" parameter a bit before rendering and uploading? it seems a bit too fast... nonetheless, seems like a desirable ship... :)
the z-52 would be a completely underwhelming ship if it didn't have the "super-hydro". considering that the t64 has comparable dpm to other tier 6 DDs (meaning the gunboat DDs at tier 6 have higher dpm than the z-52) the german dds as a whole are underpowered. you should look at the meta as a whole and not just premium vs. silver was my point.
WOWS is starting to be a nightmare for new players to grind new ships considering on how many strong premium ships lurking on T6 and T7. People might quit if they getting sealclubbed by Belfast and Saipan every game.. Add these things on T6? Srsly WG? Even I now always play T8+ only since T5-7 is just a nightmare to play.
I play tier X so I have to deal with fewer potatoes in tier 7 premiums :D AND THEN THEY ADDED THE MISSOURI, just as the tirpitz craze was winding down.
I like it, it should be better then standard ship it's a pay ship. What do you get for your money ...? If people bitch it's better then others then buy it. The game lives on people spending some money, you aren't going to spend if no benefit. It's just common sense. Flamu is not your average player his probably stop 3% the rest of us can only dream of those results.
just make this a dutch ship for a fututre dutch tech tree (if that ever will be the case), then you folks cant whine about the fact that the premium version is OP compared to the regular one.
You should be firing AP at anything that you don’t over-pen or shatter off of. (Unless they’re angled, and consequently bouncing, obviously. Or if you just want to set fires.) If it’s the former, it may still be possible to get some random penetrations, which may or may not be worth it. If it’s the latter, I doubt IFHE will give your HE better penetration than your AP, especially since the German DD’s aren’t under 1/4 HE penetration rule. (Yet?) If neither AP nor HE are effective, just stop using your guns. You’re a good torpedo-boat, and playing as one will most likely yield better results, regardless. (At least, that’s how I’ve been able to stand going up the tech tree so far.)
Hmm you do realise that this is the 2nd dutch related ship that has high marks.It was a german design based on the dutch destroyers , and dutch shipyards where contracted but its still a german design and german operated ship . I would not consider it dutch and why would we buy a premium of a germanship build by collaborators.I rather use the fromer N class destroyer that was operated by the dutch navy then buy something designed build and used by germans.
So lets give a tier 6 stealth with decent torps but have sims torp reload.. while sims only does 8.4k dmg per torp.. smart lol Why get sims when you the t61 lol
Sad but true. I love my Gallant, but the T-61 is both a better gunboat (hydro combined with better reload and higher HP pool) *and* a better torpedo boat - better angles, 28(!) seconds faster reload on 4kn faster torps. Granted, Gallant has some minor advantages in maneuverability (1kn faster, tighter turn) and torp alpha (+1.8k), but that doesn't make up for that 25+% torps per minute increase due to the T-61's ridiculous torp reload.
T-61 = disigned by the DUTCH T-61 = built by the DUTCH T-61 = built in a DUTCH navy yard so you would think wg made this a DUTCH ship or at least it has an option for a DUTCH flag and cammo ? NOOOOOO says WG this is a german ship you can have a ''commonweath'' ship and/or an ''asian'' ship and put a different flag on it becourse this or that country owned the ship for a week or so and was build and disigned somewhere else NEXT oke gadjah madah build en disigned by the brits sold to the dutch when it was NEW the dutch used her for 20 YEARS than we sold it to indonesia and now you can have her as a panasia or as an indonesian ship [flag] but whatever wg does YOU CAN NOT GET A DUTCH SHIP IN THE GAME i used to buy about 50% of the premium ships and use a premium account ect ect but now i am going to send a BIG FUCK YOU TO WG and stop doing that
People making the argument that just because I compare it to the Gaede, it's not that strong. No, it really is that strong, lets compare some quad launcher torp reloads at T5-T8 MM, which this ship will face;
Shiratsuyu 101 sec
Farragut 88 sec
Mahan, Sims 87 sec
Gallant 96 sec
Anshan 79 sec (a triple launcher)
Leningrad 92 sec
Akizuki, Kagero, Harekaze 112 sec
Gaede 90 sec
*T-61 68sec*
... you were saying?
What would you nerf? I vote the torpedoes, lower speed and/or range. On the other hand, I've been thinking the entire line up to Z-46/Z-52 needs some love, mostly in concealment department.
I was excited to unlock the Gaede, but found it very frustrating to play.
As premium ships are meant to be "extraordinary" from the usual national flavor, seeing this is a torp-focused DD (as opposed to the normal German gunboats), I disagree with nerfing the torps. I would actually nerf the guns, to keep its spirit of the only German torpedoboat in the game. All the other German DDs are more or less nice gunboats already.
Using the same gun reload as the Gaede smaller guns use would be a start. There is no need to give T7 German DD reload on a T6, or alternatively, WG can consider buffing the Gaede gun reload. However, do note that all the 3x3 IJN DDs also gets similarly fast reloads, so T-61 is not necessarily much more powerful than those with 10km torps like Fubuki and Akatsuki which are all 76s base, and those have torps that hit even harder than Shinonome(Fubuki does 16k).
I do agree T-61 would be best T6 torp boat in this state, and not a healthy release if Gaede is not changed. Similarly how Minsk and Leningrad compares...
You forgot Shinonome which can reach 68 sec CD with captain perk if i'm not wrong
Tsaryu Klannisay, if you're playing German any DDs as pure gunboats then you're doing it wrong. They all have excellent torpedoes. Not all of them have reloads this fast (though some of the lower tiers actually do...like the much-maligned T-22 is actually an awesome torp boat), but you sure as heck should be relying on your torps whenever possible.
1940 Type
After the invasion of the Netherlands in 1940, the Dutch shipyards were almost undamaged. Therefore the Kriegsmarine contracted three Dutch shipbuilders to build some smaller vessels. Classed as "Fleet torpedo boats" (Flottentorpedoboot) the 1940 Type was more a destroyer than a torpedo boat, with a full load displacement of 2,566 tons and carrying four 5-inch guns and eight 21-inch torpedo tubes in two quadruple mountings, and was based on Dutch designs. Twelve were ordered in 1940-1941, and numbered T.61 to T.72; but only eight were laid down by 1942 of which three were launched (the other five were destroyed on the slips); in 1944 these three incomplete ships (T.61, T.63 and T.65) were transferred to the Baltic Sea to be completed, and T.61 was torpedoed off the West Frisian Islands in September 1944, while the other two were captured by the Allies at Kiel and scuttled after the war.
A very nice history on these ships. And a very under rated comment. Thanks for the info and background!
I didn't even knew these existed; I thought the last Fleet torpedo boats were the 1939 "Elbing-class" (the T-22) before Germany stopped surface vessels for U-boat mass production.
Thanks for the info.
I as a dutch man would not spend on cent on it as it is a german ship . and has no dutch navy history nor was it build for the dutch navy. The closest thing to a dutch destroyer is the N- class british designed destroyer that got transferd to the dutch navy in 1942 and is now a pan asian DD. the gadja mada .
When comparing gaede to t-61, "This has been the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals, maybe ever"
Yep it definitly is weekend. Got a CL in my team today, who launched torps at enemys, that were 12km away. He sunk 3 Ships with them. 2 friendly Cruisers and himself....
On which tier? Up to including tier 4 I wouldn't be surprised anyways. Most ultimate noobs get filtered out by tier 5.
He was Tier 5. Was a Tier 7 match on Two Brothers. The enemy ships were on the other side of the large island in the middle.
Yet another DD that out torps the IJN line without giving up any firepower, cool cool.
I seem to get matched with t8 when I'm using a high level captain, hope this helps. Keep up the great work, love your informative approach.
The T-61/1940-class t-boats were a german redesign of the two Dutch Gerard Callenburgh DDs largely left incomplete when the Germans invaded the Netherlands. One has to wonder why WG chose this, largely unfinished class, when the Callenburgh itself was commissioned by the Kriegsmarine as ZH-1 and Isaac Sweers served in the RNLN. Would be interesting to see the difference between this variant, with the 4x127 and the 5x120 (likely Dutch guns) on the Callenburgh and 6x104QF British on the Sweers. Maybe the difference in speed (the fully Dutch boats could do ~37.5 kts), the additional guns and possibly better AA (2x2 40mm bofors on Hazemeyer mounts, 4x.50 cal) could nudge them into a higher tier.
2:47 As of the latest version of wowsft.com (June 14, 2018), the Gaede has a superior near aura with an extra 12dps at 2km and slightly inferior medium aura with 15 DPS to the T-61 at 3.5km (T-61 has 20 dps at that range).
Here's the WIP intro again where WG attempts to stick it in our face cuz they think we are too blind to see the regular WIP watermark in the top left corner
Kek
I love it, I hope they keep it like this.... Worthy DD to buy.
I wait for the traditional last minute nerf before I hype this ship
flamuu in your hands every ship is op ....
While it is always fun to watch Flamu sink ships, the whole "WIP" means who knows what the finnished product will be..
One reason to play the Gaede is because it has acces to the 150s. Even though they aren't really better than the 128s but they make the Gaede besides the Z-23 an outstanding DD.
Gun reload 4s check
Torp reload 68s check
AA ... yes, WG nerfed the AA. Lulz
Seriously is the final version weaker in any significant way than what Flamu and Flambass tested months ago? Cuz I don’t see it.
He left us when we got to the cap, i was in one of the bismarcks insted of helpping us and go north he runs away making us turn and sink from torps an he spam. And he complains that we are nott suporting him. Sorry for bad english.
If the enemy Cv had simply struck you at 2:40 when you left your smoke right under his bombers, your game would have ended there and then with nothing achieved, bottom of the scoreboard, etc. Also, notice how none of the usual sealclubber ships are around. No Belfasts, no Saipans or Kagas, no Kamikazes, Gremyashychys, etc. Instead you use a game where enemy AS Hiryuu is oblivious enough to get solo'ed by a strike Ranger, an enemy Amagi manages the incredible feat of catching every single one of your torps despite the bloody obvious smokescreen, Shinonome has no idea what is German DD hydro, and 3 BBs end the game being fish in a barrel for your torps. If you had been more patient and launched 1 launcher at Gneisenau and 1 at the Tirpitz you could have gotten five kills too. I don't see how this proves this ship is that OP. It is a hybrid. It's torp DPM is not as good as the dedicated torp boats. The gun DPM is not as good as the dedicated gunboats. The turret traverse is arguably bad. Hell, its gun DPM is even worse than some t5 and even t4 DDs. It's not particularly stealthy or fast either. It's just a decent all-rounder. Nerf the torp reload slightly and it'll be balanced.
I just got the Gaede, and while i haven't played it much, this one, the T-61 really does seem like a straight upgrade over the Gaede.
Yes, the Dutch know how to build ships!
I wonder what happened to this ship? I kept an eye on the shop but till now it didn't pop up, maybe I missed it? I would really like a German premium DD for some extra credit and captain training.
PIcked it up this morning. First match was tier 6. Cleaned house. I am a decent player, but not great. The T-61 made taking top score easy. 2 DD kills in the first 3 mins, assist on 2 more DD kills, 2 BBB kills at the end to win the game on points. It really is a tad gross. Used my 14 point Z-23 Captain, don't have Torp Arm yet.
Holy shit this thing is like fujin/kamikaze all over again
that's the life of a dd, cap while your team sits in spawn
8:40 is that a Scharnhorst without camouflage?
Gro3n
Yep ._____. Dont ask me why. ......I have Seen that a lot lately from premium ships 😓
I saw a smoke module and hydro module options. Ijust went through all my German ships and dont see thise options. Is this a server specific thing?
Considering the current mm for t6 I wouldn’t mind having this be a little op, as it would allow an average player to have a decent game even if uptiered to a t8 game
Hey flamu have you ever thought of doing a ship request type of thing with the chat voting on the ship? I think it would be very awesome.
t6 MM isnt that bad anymore (my opinnion), i often get into t5-7 or t5-t6. The t8s got the real horrible matchmaking, i am in 8/10 matches against t10....-
Cpt Poell yeah, tier 8 is getting the shit kicked out of it right now. Considering how sharp a change in match ups I'm convinced they "tweaked" the mm. This isn't just people progressing through the tiers. Wish they'd just admit defeat already, strict +2 mm is just a dumb idea and the excuse of "it keeps que times down" doesn't wash anymore especially at peak times.
and with all the wallet warriors, which can afford the premium camo on TX ships, there is no need to play anything lower than TX. Wargaming is careless with their P2S policy, so i do care less about this game.
oh how the times have changed
battleships? wt battleships? oh u meant the stationary coastal artilleries?
So the T-61 is a "Flottentorpedoboot 1940" which is the successor of the maligned T-22 "Flottentorpedoboot 1939" or more commonly known as the Elbing class torpedo boat. Also, unlike the Ernst Gaede, the T-61 actually existed in real life. Given how well in performs and and WG knowing this, I wonder what was the point in making the paper ship Ernst Gaede before moving towards actual destroyers for the German DD line & not have the line be (...T-22 -> T-61 -> Z1 ->...).
What's her hydro radius? For Ships & torps detection.
While the torpedo reload is completely bananas I'd say the rest of the differences are actually the Gaede being really mediocre, I mean in comparison to the T-22 before it the Gaede is fantastic but to other T6 DDs it's still rather meh
It's finally (almost) in the game... 8 months later... lol
Do you think they might be using the T-61 as a test bed of potential buffs for Gaede? It's like they've looked at it and fixed what's really bad with Gaede. Really wish they'd get back to the same logic of old premiums in their games, some special quirk but never outright better than fully upgraded silver counterpart. They need to get back to promoting better credit income and crew trainer as the big thing on the premium ships.
Of course it’s going to look great compared to Gaede, the 150’s on that ship are the only thing it has going for it.
Both of the guns it gets to choose from are terrible against other DD’s, due to the horrible HE alpha and reload, it’s forced to play as a torpedo boat, with some of the worst concealment for its tier, a horrible smokescreen, and horrible maneuverability, that has enough HP to last a couple more salvos.
And let’s be honest, that HP is not so much a strength, as it is necessary compensation for the fact that without it, it may be the worst gunboat in T6.
(And the concealment makes it difficult to play as a torpedo boat, as well.)
With that in mind, is it possible that this ship is meant to test some potential low/mid-tier German DD buffs? I can’t imagine that it’d be too difficult to lower the reload of the Gaede’s guns, torps, or even give it a concealment buff, (the latter of which has already been done to the T-22,) unless it was too overpowered. Which is why they would want to test it first, obviously.
If it’s just outright overpowered for its tier, that’s one thing. They’ll need to nerf it in some way.
But overpowered compared to Gaede? That’s more than likely going to be fixed through buffing the tech tree ship, rather than nerfing the premium. (Again, assuming the premium isn’t just straight up overpowered.)
EDIT: There was an extra space in the parenthetical statement about concealment marking it difficult to play as a torpedo boat, and “nerfing” at the end of the last sentence was autocorrected to “needing”, which I had to correct.
The Gaede might be underpowered, sure, but just straight up assuming that the t61 is a test for buffs to the mid tier German DDs is a HUGE jump in my opinion. If they wanted to test buffs to the Gaede, why not just put it on the test server or tune it slightly? Given all the overpowered premiums WG has released, I would not be surprised if this is the final version of this ship. There's room for debate tho. I'm just a cynical asshole who only sees the worst in WG
Agreed. The t-22 was absolute dogshit and gaede is only better if you get stupid omahas and other light cruisers giving you broadsides for days. Smoke-hydro cap contesting with the mid-tier german DDs has been hit hard by the smoke-firing nerf, it makes sense to give them a buff to compensate.
JustYourAverageGamer
This wouldn’t have been the first time they used a premium to test changes before applying them to the tech tree, though I can understand it being a bit excessive in this case.
One might argue that if you put it in the public test, you wouldn’t get enough people using it to get the information you need.. but that’s suggesting that they think they’ll get more people buying the premium than playing the ships in the public test, and that’s not true. (Hopefully)
As for tweaking them slightly, I wouldn’t want to be the one that has to change the stats of multiple ships every update/patch, hoping that this time they won’t be too weak, or otherwise, overpowered.
As I said before, they’ll probably nerf it if it’s too overpowered for its tier.
But if it’s only overpowered compared to its tech tree counterparts, it’s more likely that those ships are getting buffs.
exaltdragon Exactly.
old clip ... now in 2.11.2018 he is still so op to gaede or they nerv this ship a little??
At least you can't put Yamamoto in this... imagine the reload on torps with Kraken... :-D
With Gaede (150mm guns and Demolition expert) you can get 14% fire chance. You did not add that to the comparison - what is T-61's fire chance?
Mini Fletcher with Hydro...nice... :)
How does this ship stand up to the gallant? I'm curious, because I'm not very good with DD's so I'm not really that knowledgable about how their stats compare either
am i playing a different game? cause for me t5 is the new t6. as a t5 and t6 ship 95% get in the t5-7 bracket, same as t8 in the t8-10 bracket. t6 isnt a big problem anymore, sure, you almost never get to be top tier, but you almost never are bottom tier either
really depends on the time, the server and your shiptype. In the evening on EU there are a ton of T6 BBabies, so if you play a T6 BB you will get uptiered a lot but you will have a lot of Top tier games as a DD.
Atlantis357
I noticed you get a different mm as a lower Account
Would you consider this like... starter friendly if someone wants to get into DD gameplay?
Honestly, "starter friendly" is playing every DD line to tier 5 and picking a favorite. Judging it by Premiums is not the way to go.
DaKillerChipmunk But heaving a good premium DD to level the captain up in that nation would be good too
Yes, but just because you're good in a nation's premiums, doesn't mean you're automatically good in the main tech tree. Sometimes the playstyles differ too much.
WG is unlikely to listen. This ship will get released as-is, tons of players will buy, BBbabies will pitch a fit and then WG will claim
total ignorance of it being OP. After they nerf it they'll offer doubloons to pacify the lemmings who jumped on the T-61.
No thanks.
do you think this ship would benefit from the ifhe perk
680m vs 600m turning circle is like 50%? hm
I'd like to know whether any changes were made following Flamu's review.
The first german premium DD should be a strong one.
Flamu when will you preview the Roma?
Developers, Supertesters and other special contributors will be able to test:
German tier VI destroyer T-61
Italian tier VII cruiser Duca degli Abruzzi
French tier VI destroyer Aigle
Japanese tier VII battleship Ashitaka
Roma is not yet avaible for him.
Flamu what do you mean, T6s get a lot of T8s? Don't T8s constantly get matched with T10s now? Isn't that why T7 is the new T5 ever since they made T4s into a newbie tier like T1-3
Whats the best overall gunboat line?
Dutch! Dutch! Dutch! Dutch! Dutch! Dutch! Dutch! Dutch! Dutch! Dutch! Dutch! Dutch! Dutch! Dutch! Dutch!
ik had dit al verwacht
haha.. "who cares." lmao..gooood morning WoW(s)!! (Edited for convenience due to the hysterical obviousness of Flamu's cavalier reaction in a willful distortion of destruction, rioted in calm. I nearly spit coffee all over my monitor..... the edit is well worth it!)
WoW =World of Warcraft
WoWs = World of Warships
10:33
Sunk in 1944 while still under construction
i WOULD make an argument that T61 is not OP , it is more that Gaede is UP as fuck...
they could release the T61 as it is and just buff Gaede to the same levels as T61 , plus minus some thing here and there , to make them diferent :)
This thing makes the Gaede and maybe even the Maass look bad, they need improvements
Mr. Cruel get the T-61 over the Sims.. T-61 is a Sims but better torps
Really, it's that extreme?
I have the Sims, its good has fletcher guns so better rotation and DPM.. only 4 guns and you have better turning and speed. But your concealment is 6.6km with conceal expert and camo. You can get farragut torps so more YOLO torps. Or ypu get the range of 9km torps that reload 68 seconds, but have crap speed of 55 knots and only due 8500 dmg . Makes the T 61 seem mich better has slight draw backs than sims but in my opinion all managable and useable
They should just bump the T-61 to T7 and charge more money for it. Win-win.
I mean, I like my Shinonome, but this thing would just straight-up shit on her in every single aspect other than rudder shift and smoke duration...
The Gaede maybe, but the Maas? The Maas is hilarious! Her AP is able to do full-damage to enemy DDs, her HP is great for the tier, the Torpedoes are good, and the Hydro's always a plus. She's probably my second-favorite DD in the game, right behind the Z-52.
Hold control and move your mouse over the torpedo icon. Bam it tells you the reload.
It doesn't update according to AR bonuses.. bam.. ?
Did that scharnhorst have no camo?!?!?!?!?
M Solo
Yep 😐
RIP hatsuharu
Can we see the Harekaze again?
Does Gaede need buffs maybe?
I don't think it's super super OP like Orion, Belfast, Kamikaze or old Gremyashychy. Yes, it is certainly stronger than Gaede, and arguably stronger than Gallant.
It's more that the Gaede is kinda bad. Not totally terrible but overly gimmicky. It gets german 150mm guns but not the 1/4 HE pen you get from karlsruhe to nurnberg. You really need to have cruisers give you broadside as Gaede for you to get easy citadel hits and exploit your 150mm calibre. When you take into account the nerf to smoke firing gaede basically cannot use the smoke-hydro combo against other DDs to contest caps reliably anymore, it's too easy for a last stand DD to just counter-rush you and neutralise your spotting advantage. Say what you will about the torpedoes, those on the Fubuki and Shinonome still exceed the torp DPM of t-61 by far. If a Farragut facerushes you in t-61 you still lose the hypothetical gun/knifefight. If the Fubuki-classes engages your team at max torp range while you engage theirs at max range, they will easily outdamage and outcarry you. If you run into a Hatsuharu or Gallant, it will likely be counterspotting you to no end.
If you still think it's needing a nerf, consider the following: You are at a matchmaking where you can meet the stealthiest radar cruiser in the game which eats you for breakfast, the most strong DDs tier-for-tier(Kamikaze/Fuujin and Gremyashychy), the stealthiest high tier ship in the game(Kagerou) and most sealclubbery ships in the game(e.g. Saipan/Kaga). All of these guys regularly get together to sealclub in 3 man divisions that have 60-90% WRs. I do think a premium DD would otherwise be a hard sell if it didn't have some advantages to level the playing field.
It's also the most overdue premium in the entire game. Ever single other line has had premiums much sooner than this, often multiple premiums... the german DDs have waited long enough. Give them a decent ship.
T-61 is better than anything in its tier (imo), but Gaede is pretty much rock bottom, except on some maps.
In terms of meeting sealclubbers: WG needs to get their head out of their ass and sort out matchmaking. There's plenty of players at any tier nowadays, except late night tier X. Might aswell limit MM spread to 1 tier, would reduce sealclubbing in the process and would make it easier to balance airplane hp vs AA.
7 games... 0 wins ...1,2k average EP... max. Dmg 113235 ... next Sprint i will fck the game with this ship... luv it
Take my money!
oh no, wargaming please....you have awoken something in me now...must....resi....WE NEED SOME DUTCH SHIPS IN THE GAME LONG LIVE THE KING
ugh, uhmmm. Sorry for that folks
Dutch ships? We already have Pan-Asia, Commonwealth and Poland.
the more the merrier
well but untill you got concealment upgrade you have to hide endlessly because of detection about 7,4 and range torps 8km and that all about german ships...but I like them because they are so agile...and decent gunboats...but in reality they are only good tier 9-10
"I can see little reason to play the Gaede as long as this ship exists" That's how I feel about Arizona>New Mexico and Scharnhorst>Gneisenau
Shawn Elliott
I like Gneisenau more ._____.
the 380mm guns are my absolute favorite onces in the game and on t7 when you get Top Tier 99% of the time you can overmatch all ships and your AA and Secondarys are stronger
Thel 'Vadam Sure, when you actually hit anything lol. I did 25 matches in the Gnau. Sold it and bought the Scharn to free XP past that nonsense. Never looked back. I prefer Nagatos 410mm which are damn near pinpoint accurate at T7. Nagato and Warspite I know if I am going to delete someone before I pull the trigger that's how accurate and devestating they are. Fuck those 6 shotguns the Gnau has
Shawn Elliott
To be honest after a while I got very good accurracy with them. .....But still it's meaned as a brawler with ther torps and powerfull secondarys. ....and I love brawling 😄
Gnau has it moments sure, but more often than not the Gnau is a host of missed opportunities. The kicker for me was a Leander 3km away. All 6 shots went into the water and my aim is pretty good in Warships. Any other BB in that situation would have resulted in a Dev Strike. That was one thing I didn't miss after finishing that line and moving on to other BB lines, was that horrible German dispersion. You don't realize how bad it really is till you get into ships like the IJN or HMS BB's.
If you love brawling then you'll love the Scharnhorst even more. Trust me. There are definitely prems I regret buying, Scharn is definitely not on that list. Don't be fooled by those 283mm guns. They still pack quite a wallop, esp with thier high fire rate, which is even lower with AR perk. If you've mastered and like the Gnau, then your battle performance will skyrocket with the Scharn.
Shawn Elliott
Nah im fine with Gneisenau (over 100k average DMG since I played her again )and Tirpitz they are so awesome
Why isn't it flying the Dutch flag though?
Because it was never used or even owned by the Dutch navy.
Gneisenau thoughts:
9:50: ugh DD shooting from smoke what a pest
9:55: oh shit torps, well at least i only ate one
10:20: ok guess he gave up on shooting me, maybe i can stay alive a bit longer, and there's no way his torps are reloaded already. Maybe i can even rush and torp that queen elizabeth over there
10:35: WTF?! CHEAT! HAX! UNFAIR!
**edit**
nevermind, i actually timed it now... holy shit, those torps *are* fast! for some reason it looks like it's accelerated, but then again, you're running at 75fps... probably that's why it looks... hmmm... more fluid... or so... :/
is it just me, or is the video playback slightly accelerated? can it be you accidentally nudged the "velocity" parameter a bit before rendering and uploading? it seems a bit too fast... nonetheless, seems like a desirable ship... :)
It won't look more fluid because of his frame rate since the video is only 60 fps.
So t-61 is actually a dutch ship????
Dutch design build on the Dutch shipyard equiped with german equipment/wapons under german rule.
just buff the Gaede?
Hyper OP ! her 4 guns of 128 mm are better the the 5 138 mm of the french Aigle class it is a shame or a mistake for the french ships
I find the gaede to be an underpowered ship. Comparing the stats of the t61 to other DDs in its tier, I think it is strong but not op.
It has more torp DPM than the Z-52. It's too strong.
the z-52 would be a completely underwhelming ship if it didn't have the "super-hydro". considering that the t64 has comparable dpm to other tier 6 DDs (meaning the gunboat DDs at tier 6 have higher dpm than the z-52) the german dds as a whole are underpowered. you should look at the meta as a whole and not just premium vs. silver was my point.
I agree Gaeda comparison is not fair. It was an underwhelming ship in the first place.
its a ship! its a sister!!!!
WOWS is starting to be a nightmare for new players to grind new ships considering on how many strong premium ships lurking on T6 and T7. People might quit if they getting sealclubbed by Belfast and Saipan every game.. Add these things on T6? Srsly WG? Even I now always play T8+ only since T5-7 is just a nightmare to play.
I play tier X so I have to deal with fewer potatoes in tier 7 premiums :D
AND THEN THEY ADDED THE MISSOURI, just as the tirpitz craze was winding down.
If you pay, you have to win. Kappa.
Your comments in this video on badly designed premiums aged like milk in hindsight
I like it, it should be better then standard ship it's a pay ship. What do you get for your money ...? If people bitch it's better then others then buy it. The game lives on people spending some money, you aren't going to spend if no benefit. It's just common sense. Flamu is not your average player his probably stop 3% the rest of us can only dream of those results.
mmm, misschien toch een Duits schip, of in ieder geval in Nederland gebouwd onder de Duitsers.
i never got the appeal of german DDs, but this might change it......
just make this a dutch ship for a fututre dutch tech tree (if that ever will be the case), then you folks cant whine about the fact that the premium version is OP compared to the regular one.
Well is more like a German Shinonome
so it should be treated as such
Massive
maybe IFHE?
You should be firing AP at anything that you don’t over-pen or shatter off of. (Unless they’re angled, and consequently bouncing, obviously. Or if you just want to set fires.)
If it’s the former, it may still be possible to get some random penetrations, which may or may not be worth it.
If it’s the latter, I doubt IFHE will give your HE better penetration than your AP, especially since the German DD’s aren’t under 1/4 HE penetration rule. (Yet?)
If neither AP nor HE are effective, just stop using your guns. You’re a good torpedo-boat, and playing as one will most likely yield better results, regardless. (At least, that’s how I’ve been able to stand going up the tech tree so far.)
Got excited for a premium German DD, an forgot about the German AP. Thank you for effort and more info.
You’re welcome.
At least this thing is not as overpowered like USS Black...
Hmm you do realise that this is the 2nd dutch related ship that has high marks.It was a german design based on the dutch destroyers , and dutch shipyards where contracted but its still a german design and german operated ship . I would not consider it dutch and why would we buy a premium of a germanship build by collaborators.I rather use the fromer N class destroyer that was operated by the dutch navy then buy something designed build and used by germans.
now gimme my dutch DD or CA :O
So lets give a tier 6 stealth with decent torps but have sims torp reload.. while sims only does 8.4k dmg per torp.. smart lol
Why get sims when you the t61 lol
Wilton Fijenoord, Schiedam, Netherlands
it will get nerf soon.. i think.
It's Dutch, of course it is better then the Zjermans.
Frank Berkemeier
It's still a german ship 😂😂😂
Yep, the criminal nazi's stole and used it, true.
Frank Berkemeier
😂😂😂😂
It’s a better gaede? I’m
Fine with that can a gaede is kinda bleh
Thing is, it's also better than pretty much every other tier 6 DD.
Sad but true. I love my Gallant, but the T-61 is both a better gunboat (hydro combined with better reload and higher HP pool) *and* a better torpedo boat - better angles, 28(!) seconds faster reload on 4kn faster torps. Granted, Gallant has some minor advantages in maneuverability (1kn faster, tighter turn) and torp alpha (+1.8k), but that doesn't make up for that 25+% torps per minute increase due to the T-61's ridiculous torp reload.
I think in the current state of the game, I'd even pick 10k damage, 50 sec reload torps over 20k damage, 100sec reload tbh...
"This ship is Excellent"
You mean overpowered?
It needs to be 'over-powered' since it faces alot of T8 MM
Wow
i want one WITH a dutch flag !!!
erik je but it's a German ship. They just had it built by the Dutch.
it is also a dutch disign
50 second cool down lmao
Just buff the gaede a bit then, damn
is it just me or the wg fuckers are going full wot tactics? releasing better premiums then the normal ships?
another gremyashchy tiered up in german?!
Nein Nein Nein
Good torps, but guns are average, concealment is horrible for a dd, need captain perk or noncompetitive, maneuverability and speed also horrible.
T-61 = disigned by the DUTCH
T-61 = built by the DUTCH
T-61 = built in a DUTCH navy yard
so you would think wg made this a DUTCH ship or at least it has an option for a DUTCH flag and cammo ?
NOOOOOO says WG this is a german ship
you can have a ''commonweath'' ship and/or an ''asian'' ship and put a different flag on it becourse this or that country owned the ship for a week or so and was build and disigned somewhere else
NEXT
oke gadjah madah
build en disigned by the brits
sold to the dutch when it was NEW
the dutch used her for 20 YEARS
than we sold it to indonesia
and now you can have her as a panasia or as an indonesian ship [flag]
but whatever wg does YOU CAN NOT GET A DUTCH SHIP IN THE GAME
i used to buy about 50% of the premium ships and use a premium account ect ect
but now i am going to send a BIG FUCK YOU TO WG and stop doing that
Just uptier it to tier 7