"Proper Neutral Doesn't Exist"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.พ. 2025
- Neutral is hard, don't get discouraged from learning how to play it
Edited by - @kickroxs_09
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This video came at a right time, I'm struggling right now to improve my neutral and it's nice to remember that it's part of the journey and everyone has to deal with that. Thanks man
I have a friend that uses the classic " if I tried" line every day.
It's so funny I called him out and it's funny to hear the nonsense. Like I told him, you go into practice, you know frame data, and other things. You are trying!
I remember watching Chris T’s growth. When he first started showing up at super arcade he used to get clowned for being soooo random. Over the years and with lots of grinding he became a really strong player. Good example of playing to learn.
The first 90 seconds of the video said it the best. If anyone is still wondering and can understand the boxing analogy I’m about to make, “proper neutral” is preparing your mind and body to go all 12 rounds in a boxing match.
Practicing and labbing, hitting that bodybag over and over doing the same combination of hits until its muscle memory. Running sets and building endurance through trial and error until you have hardened yourself to be ready for whoever your opponent is. In the match, throwing jabs, feints, body shots, parrying, counter punching - constantly moving around, focusing on your opponent’s body language, respecting the space, but never giving an inch. Conditioning your opponent to think a certain way and to move to your cadence. Looking for openings in their defense, always ready to attack and punish if they overcommit, while also trying not to overextend your hand to end up slipping and get counterhit into a knockout yourself. Knowing when to pressure, and when to be patient. Proper neutral is taking all of that and using it to ultimately win the match. Its not necessarily moving slow and steady; its more like Mohammad Ali say, “Float like a butterfly, Sting like a bee.” Playing ultra defensive is playing neutral. Playing unga bunga is playing neutral. They are apart of what makes neutral. Neutral will change from game to game. Boxers are trained to do it their whole careers. Its the flow of the match between competitors. And honestly to execute it properly, you simply need to have a feel for how the match is flowing and adapt to it and it will naturally take effect, and that’s learned through experience.
No one's reading that yap
@@faaltovi didnt think anyone would reply either. Heh, but look at you here 🗿
To anyone struggling, learn the match-ups. Know when it's your turn. Know when you have to hold it. Learn when to press a button and which one to use with the right spacing. It's broad but it'll help. If you're getting harassed, you have PP and reversal which can help turn the tide.
It'll come with time. Patience is a virtue, just know when to strike.
Excellent advice, fully agree 👌
Honestly, learning when it was or wasn't my turn was the biggest wall for me. I still sometimes struggle with it. But hey that's all part of the fun!
@@dannypatrick9361 Same for me, took me a minute. I'm an impatient player, even when I know it's not my turn, I can't help but try and sneak something in. 😂 If it was money on the line, I'd play safer but it's fun jfa.
This whole turn thing is the most cope take I've gotten from fighting game scene for a long time.
I think people forget turns mean nothing in most fighting games up until recently within the last 10-20 years and it's been a slow change it's not very natural anymore.
This is such a good video dude! And is genuinely inspirational and really sums up why players that feel "stuck" should keep pushing through. Big ups man, appreciate you.
What’s annoying is people think once upon a time neutral was so much more prestigious or proper and going ungabunga wasn’t a factor that could reward you. 😂 They see pros play and they assume that’s how the game is overall and they don’t realize once you actually play a fighting game how much random shit you have to deal with in order to get to that point and it’s always been like that. There’s actually less bullshit you deal with in today’s era of fighting games than ever has been.
Ye Tekken, in this regard, humbled tf outta me
100%
People think you either HAVE to play neutral or you HAVE to not.
When in reality you must do both. It's always been that way.
there’s still pros and people like 4Philz that have 2K MR season 1 that dont like the game so it still depends on the person
I've got two words for the "Proper Neutral" guys: Flying Barcelona....Attack. Three words, but still.
Sf4 had a lot of random sh*t going on too unreadable situations, all of the best characters in sf4 had some sort of shenanigans that were untechable
The same way people train with such frequency and repetition until its second nature, others will complain and find excuses like "genetics" until its second nature.
This video resonated so hard with me. I'm working on improving neutral and losing set after set to some people who go HAM right from the word "fight." Sometimes I would lose patience and just fight fire with fire to finally win. But then it would bite me in the ass when I'd lose a match to a clutch situation where a fundamental skill like anti airing or spacing would have won me the round.
Your editor is godlike lmao these were too good
Thanks for laying this out so clearly. It's good to hear that the frustrating part of learning neutral does eventually pay off.
Neutral is literally about getting to advantage without getting put in disadvantage. If you can do that, you're playing good neutral
This sorta mindset has always been something which has shocked me as someone who came from anime fighters. In modern street fighter you get soooooo many chances where the game state resets to neutral and you can try again
Strider your a real stand up guy, didn’t really know how to take you after all I had seen was you going off on punk but bro your a real stand up man mad respect to you brother.
I’m not going to waste my time going into that debate. Let’s keep it short and simple. Get better at the game. If you’re not in the 1%. Don’t worry about anything, just enjoy the game.
im playing gold and platinum ... all of a sudden i don't feel like losing... then i realize im no more enjoying the game... I just want to win and thats a very bad way to approach the game.
@@Justpostitlikethat it sure is, take delight in the details of the game. If you whiff punish someone you should enjoy it, if you anti-air you should be happy. Don't get angry because someone is being "Random", be pleased about what you can put a stop to. When you start knocking a habitual jumper out of the sky every time its gonna feel so much better than anything else.
If you just want to win, then set goals you can achieve and call a win. Because you are never ever ever gonna win every game.
@@Ash3nnyou are speaking the facts
Well said 👍
Nope. The game is way more fun when you play right.
To players of all ranks and experience, no matter what remember we don’t quit because of losing, we don’t quit because of disappointment, we don’t quit because of failure. These are the reasons we keep playing, these things fire the engine of success and improvements. Excellent Video Strider
Was mad struggling today, perfect timing for this video. I gotta be ready for the journey and take my losses and just keep getting better. I know it’s on me, no genetics or anything else.
It's also worth noting that a lot of people that run people over by not playing "proper neutral" are also entirely capable of actually playing "proper neutral", and often do so better than a lot of the guys stuck in "proper neutral"-limbo. However, they will also test their opponent's ability to play "proper neutral" early on in the set, and, if they sense a crack in the armor, will run their opponent over by hitting that weak spot. Because why show your opponent respect in neutral before they've proven that they actually deserve that respect?
Very strange last sentence
It's the good ol' bell curve
"Mashing buttons is fun!"
"No, I can't overextend because my pressure will have gaps and it's not my turn so I..."
"Mashing buttons is fun!"
Like, I'm not a good player, but I already know (but not execute) most concepts and flow of a fighting game match. That being said, I will absolutely do 6 L Scissors in a row if I see you don't know how to deal with it. lol
Yeah it's absolutely feels like growing pains and I honestly sympathize with the guy. It's so mentally stressing to be at that stage where you know what you're supposed to do, you're labbing everything out as best you can, doing drills, trying to examine your opponent to punish their specific bad habits and _everything_ is just stressing you out while the other guy's like "I'm on a payyyphooone!" while doing jump, sweep, DI, drive rush, EX DP, whiff crouch mk, throw loop, SPD, blanka ball aaah type of gameplay. I'll take the 20-30 losses in a row to get something down, I have no ego in this, but it doesn't feel like you really have any say in how mentally exhausting it's going to be regardless and it actually just burned me out, and I absolutely need time away from this game after grinding exactly this for a couple of weeks. I will get over this hump eventually but wow does it suck while you're in it.
And also yeah, genetics plays a part insofar as I have a mental disorder(not learning disability) that causes me to get stressed a lot easier than most and it sticks in my body for a long time, so it's just not healthy for me to subjugate myself to it for long periods of time, and combined with light sensitivity/double vision I'll literally get migraines from the stress, I'll lose fine motor function due to nerve issues which means doing mechanical stuff becomes very hard, but yeah, the rare days where I have no chronic pain, no issues getting stressed out, no brain fog and I'm functioning like an average human, all of you who get to live like that every day, you truly have no excuses. 20ms slower reaction time isn't what's keeping you out of high MR.
There are top 8 players out there who have self-admitted "bad reactions" and say "I just fuzzy everything". They play around it. Do your best, you're really only competing with yourself. If you just want the recognition of being good without actually going through the process what you want is just for people to notice you and tell you that you're worth something, and that's something you need to talk to your therapist about because it's not about wanting to play Street Fighter anymore.
Then you failed to adapt. Not in a manner of learning your opponent but playing the game in general.
@@jamaledwards8118 Congratulations you missed everything I said. Being an overgrown 13-year old manchild on the internet is not a personality. Adapt to interacting with real people in real life maybe. Good luck
@@gwen9939 This comment wasn't an insult. I know the whole "adapt" word comes off as snobbish way of saying "git gud". That's not what I'm implying. If you're struggling with yolo players to the point you're stressed out then what does that mean? You have to make changes to your play style of the game itself. That's why I said failed to adapt to the game. At no point should you play casually even if it's rank should you be stressed. My apologies for sounding condescending it's not my intention.
@@jamaledwards8118 Ok, my apologies then. I interpreted it as some weird "alpha grindset" vibe of like "if you're getting stressed it's YOUR fault!", since I kind of started off by saying that my whole approach is exactly what is described in the video: taking losses because I wanted to learn to play less risky. So it felt a little weird to get "you failed to adapt" in return.
But getting stressed out by yolo players is exactly what Strider is saying is the case of these growing pains. You're getting mental stacked by players who're just running full-throttle offense with no regard to risk or neutral exactly because you've decided for yourself that you're going to play more reactive, more reserved, and less risky, but you're just not at the point where you can react to everything yet. You're telling yourself "I'm going to practice whiff punishing" and you're hard-focused on that and they're doing drive rush jab, jump, DI, empty jump SPD, and just generally playing like lunatics. If you watch high master players as they're going through Diamond on a new character they also get stressed when faced by this type of playstyle while they're nerfed by trying to learn a new character on the fly. When you don't have the same fundamentals that these high master players can tap into, you're essentially stuck in this limbo state until you can at least improve your own.
I'm obviously still adapting to my opponent's habits, but that doesn't mean that the process of learning these things isn't stressful, especially when the players you're up against in that 1300-1500MR bracket have layers to their yolo gameplan that are essentially optimized for a bo3 set. You're just very focused looking for the right thing to react to and maintaining focus on what the goal you've set for yourself while a whole other match is happening that you also have to respond to, that's heavy multitasking and response inhibition, 2 very stressful mental tasks to engage in. But I essentially have to build a better auto-pilot because I only really start to relax playing fighting games when I have decent fundamentals to fall back on.
I don't really understand how you'd want me to adapt further. The point of learning to play more reserved, having better movement, respond correctly to risky options, and developing the reactions to do so, _is_ adapting by acquiring the tools to be better at responding to players who play risky. If you're just responding with your own high risk/high reward options you're not getting to that point where you're so fundamentally skilled that you can easily dismantle them without taking risks yourself.
this is just a good guideline for life in general. no excuses, do the work.
subbed.
Honestly, this kind of concept applies to everything. I think a lot of people who complain about these kind of things hasn’t been humbled or really know how to learn.
Facts
couldnt have said it better. This concept applies to anything you want to learn and try get better at. Just a simple example but I held the pencil the wrong way when I was younger and my hand gets super sore from writing really quickly which isnt ideal for a student so I started to force myself to hold pens the correct way. If I cared about the how the words looked I had to really slow down the pace at which I wrote which was a pain in the ass. It took me twice the time to write the same sentence and it still didnt look as good as it would if I wrote it using the way I was used to. It is hard to suddenly change the way you were used to using for so many years of your life but once you push through you get better and that is what feels good.
When i was learning more higher level play from one of my buddies who played in locals and regionals often, he pretty much dropped the same line about learning to play neutral which " you need to just hold this L and learn". And damn does it actually suck, but once you come out on that other side it feels so good. I feel like learning to play/adapt during the neutral is what allowed me to finally stop being scared and play games like T8 because ill be honest having anime fighting games as my start back in 2008, you learn so many bad habits in the low-mid-midhigh level play just due to the nature of fast 2D fighting games that do not translate well to slower fighting games.
I literally stopped playing the game at this stage. I'm so frustrated. Got 2 chars to master but hit plateau after as i do mindless offense and play casino just like you said. Because i get better results than by playing "proper neutral". Great video I needed that
8:50 - People do the same thing with age. "Oh, I could'ved been good, but I'm too old to react to anything now."
Like bro, there are 40 year olds winning majors still. Sako is 40+, playing the highest execution characters, winning a SF5 major without dropping a single game. And that's within the top 0.01% of players. Age and reaction time aren't why you're hard stuck gold or diamond or whatever. If Randy Couture can win professional fights at 40+, there's no reason why you can't play a video game at 30, lol.
People just want to feel better about their own lack of drive or accomplishment by putting up their own glass ceilings.
The exception doesn’t make the rule.
@@dimex3362 As a 42-year old that's not even that good - nah, it's definitely an excuse, especially the reactions thing. I do just fine with those, so can others. I think oftentimes people just don't want to learn what particular things to react to and kind of expect their bodies to just magically do something in a situation. Just not how it works.
they still have more reaction speed than average; i can't dr check consistently with gief
@@SonofTzeentch I remember, as a teen, my friend who was naturally good at fighting games… he and I would go to the arcade together… play the same amount of time… we tried the same strategies… at his house in training mode both he and I would try combos in game that neither of us had ever played. One was 3S. We learned about uriens unblockable setups that had all this charge partitioning and decided we would try to do them. Neither of us was able to fully replicate them… but I wasn’t even close whereas my friend… who has always had better execution to me… was able to do about 60% of them in only about 5-6 hours of practice. Me after nearly twice that amount of time could only do about 15-20% of the unblockable. We laughed about it and my friend totally acknowledged it’s a handicap.. but there’s nothing he can do about it and it doesn’t take away from his skill. He still has to practice.
Then we booted up tekken, a game he would kick my ass at. He was talking about how he could duck a standing right kick on reaction… I was like bullshit so we went into training mode. He could. Then we decided to really test it and he put on some headphones and I put the controller behind my back so he could see or hear my button presses. He was able to duck the st.rk 95% of the time on reaction. He never practiced this. It was just something he could do. But when I tried it… I couldn’t. Not even close. St.rk is something like less than 15 frame startup.
This is talent, and it’s something I’ve seen most top players defnitely have.
I had a longer response written out, but youtube decided to delete it.
Anyway, shorter version: I've heard these stories. In my experience it comes down to 3 things: Not breaking down an animation/possibility of where an attack occurs; not training enough; not understanding how to approach a problem differently.
People really need to think about what they are actually saying when bringing out the "talent" or "genetics" cards. No, the guy that is better than you did not have ancestors better trained at flexing their fingers due to animations on a screen. Yes, there's such a thing as skillsets that overlap; training to play a musical instrument can help with fighting game execution, for example. Doesn't mean other people don't put in the work, and doesn't mean that you'll get equal results to somebody else for the same amount of time put in.
Somehow people see disparity and call upon magic to defend themselves. Don't do this, it'll definitely affect you anywhere in life.
And honestly im not sure how much beatdowns and learning im gonna have to do to get there but im not giving up. Thanks for making this strider
Regarding that tweet, if the dude was actually playing proper neutral.. your opponent would not be getting close enough to throw you😂
For me I struggle in neutral when i get overwhelmed in a match. Once I calm my emotions, neutral becomes easier 😅
Its my goal to get every character to Master (so far i've finished 12 characters) and with every character Ive been through these same identical stages without fail :
1. Learning the character > Okay this characters pretty busted
2. Do placements > get rank > start the rank journey
3. In the process of learning how to move instinctively with the character im getting blown up by the most random unsafe garbage
4. Why am I dying to random stuff > Im never going to get this character to Master
4.5. I hate this character its impossible to win with them
5. I understand how to pressure with the character > fundamentals kick in > I now do combos and A.A without thinking about it
6. Destroy my way to Master in a day or 2 > This character is broken > This game is so easy
7. Repeat steps 1 - 6
Cool video. I know my neutral sucks. Good to know that it's okay to suck at it so much before you get better.
I think the real fighting game gene is the capacity to lose 50+ games in a row in a 1v1 format and then come back for more - the ability to steadily dig yourself out of that beginner's hole without allowing your frustrations get to the point of quitting and/or not learning.
every time someone makes it out of that hole, a new fighting game player is born
As someone stuck in this stage it does suck hard. I know the concepts and know I should be implementing them but I struggle and just end up like a deer in headlights most of the time
Just remember every day you're playing and practicing you are getting better. It's VERY hard to notice the small incremental steps of you getting better day over day. It's not until you've looked at your progress side by side after the span of a few weeks or months do you see just how much more you've improved. Watch a good replay of yours and then a few months later compare it to a new one that you thought was good. I can guarantee you'll see many improvements.
great vid, couldn't agree more.
Well said. Know the dif between playing to win and playing to learn. That's why I don't care about MR. None of the homies play FG's anymore, so I have to train online and playing to learn ends in me losing half the time but that's what it is. Learning to take a loss helps with persisting with the game.
I get what Chris T is saying about genetics though. Just like a PC, brain processing speed matters. It's not the be all and end all but it matters.
You used ball 🏀 as an example. You don't need to be 7 foot to succeed in the NBA. Everyone said Steph was too small. You can be a good player in the NBA but if you wanna be Steph or MJ, genetics plays a part (hand-eye coordination). Reaction speed. Persistence overcomes resistance but to be a Great, there's several factors involved.
Good video.
Salute.
🕚💯
Played against Strider way back at the beginning of SFV and I was still not great at the game. Got way better over time, and coming back after a year of a break and relearning all this. Back at 1600 MR and getting there all over again!
Here we go
The problem is people think it's either neutral or not.
Fighting games have both and you have to get better at both.
Remember, just because you can do it in training mode does NOT mean that plan will work for you in the heat of battle. The pressure is on and you will make mistakes. It's not that deep. You'll get there.
Good point on neutral, & dealing w/neutral skips. I main Honda, watch top players, & want to improve, including neutral.
I don't get to visit my brother as often as I'd like for gaming/SF6 (usually every other weekend).
But I watch tech vids through the week, do some training & other modes, & vs. Interesting to deal w/physical challenges at 50.
Took me 5 years to reach gold in SF5, so improvement rates vary, it seems. Fun vid. Thanks.
Proper neutral comes from two players with extremely deep layers of knowledge who know everything that can come and how to punish it.
Great video. One thing I would mention that people constantly get wrong:
Human reaction time is highly adaptable and situational. People on average do not have bad or good reactions so much as they have untrained or trained reactions. When you see someone react with something crazy in a fighting game it is incredibly likely that two things are true:
1. They've practiced the reaction to this situation hundred of times in prior matches and in training mode
2. More importantly: *they already made a soft read and were watching for the thing they reacted to*.
I really need to emphasize point 2 because it gets lost in the shuffle so often and people seem to think pros are just cold reacting to things in neutral and that's not the case as often as you might think. Take moment 37 for example. Go pull it up and if you think that's just Daigo's genetically superior reactions then you need to look closer and recognize that parrying Chun Li's super isn't even reactable due to zero frame startup and Daigo starts mirroring Justin's movements like 5 seconds in advance of the super flash because he's already made the read and he's preparing himself to unleash it all.
For real: genetics and age are not non factors but people constantly over emphasize them and unless you are a serious outlier its almost certain that you're far more capable with time and practice than you realize.
it's so obvious, but most players don't know it anyway, people are afraid to enter the discomfort zone, they prefer to play on autopilot, doing the same safe, proven things
people need to master two things - PATIENCE and ANGER CONTROL, turning the loss into something positive, if anyone has these problems, I suggest playing games like the dark soul series as side game, this gave me something that helped me in fighting games, this game will stop the rush, gambling mind, and most of our deaths are our own fault, which made me feel positive, this game teaches you by dying and is an integral part of the game
Man, good point. You really have to take a step back and calm your ego in order to play good neutral. Yes, it sucks complete ass to lose to players that go full unga bunga on you. I’m currently going through this phase and I see that I’m slowly but surely making progress.
My advice is try and be patient. It’s not going to be easy, but once it clicks you’ll notice huge improvement
I spent a month from getting 0-100 vs strong guys to learn how to actually improve on fundamentals. Worth every asswhooping i got.
Been playing SF since i was a kid and this is the first time ive really gotten to a point where ive been actively trying to improve my neutral game and it has been a tough road so far. The way i used to play in SF4 was very flowcharty and ive just had to slow everything down and not be going ham all the time.
You've also gotta remember that the 1500+ hours in Training Mode are exclusively on SF6, and only on that specific account. None of their offline training is on record for their account from warmup/practice session at tournaments, on their potential burner accounts to try and hide their tech while still running matches, or from MenaRD taking a plane to Japan and dive rolling through Tokido's window for a set.
And for a good amount of players, they have over 15 years of experience in Street Fighter and/or other fighting games. Comparing your game from 15 hours in Training Mode to someone like Daigo is just unrealistic.
Best advice I ever heard was from FChamp. He said you don’t get better by just playing you only get better in training mode.
I just lost a couple of games by trying to improve my neutral. It's depressing but this video come to rescue. I'll still practice and do drills everyday, I want to become a better player and win because I know I'm better without doing random shit.
So I have to take a lot of drugs to learn proper neutral... gotcha! thank you 801 Strider, I will do that.
In my opinion, having a coach or a good teacher does help a lot with any growth. I do believe some people have natural talent or don't. I do believe hard beats talent.
"Do pros just lab out moves until it becomes 2nd nature?" ---> "YES!"
The only other step you need to learn is learning what/how you need to lab.
I find neutral in sf6 much harder than most fighting games, the game is very volatile and drive rush is really hard to check since they vary between characters and buttons
There is some truth in the sentiment that some people will learn or be more naturally inclined to certain activities. The idea that that is what is keeping the average person from becoming good though is ludricrous. There will always be stories of people newer to a scene or that are just fairly young seeing a large level of success faster than most, but that doesn't mean that YOU can't make it out of pools because of genetics.
Even savants have to work hard and maintain that work ethic to continue growing in whatever it is they do. Maybe they have faster reactions, maybe they just have that type of brain that clicks with an activity so they grasp concepts and learn the activity faster than most. That's no excuse for YOU not being able to make it out of pools.
There may be some truth to the idea that the difference between being 1800MR and 2000+MR has some sort of a "talent" barrier but ANYONE can make Top 8 at a major and ANYONE can hit that 1800MR threshold online if they really care enough to put in the effort.
The hard work vs talent debate is forever funny because people who refuse to put in the work complain about talent. Talent may stop you from getting into that .01% of the playerbase but the rest of that is work no matter what you try to say, at least in esports.
I suck at neutral, I just swing a big attack and hope for the best
Neutral in 6 is very different too. Whiff punishing is very easy to the point where it happens by accident sometimes. Introduce DR and that easy punish can turn into half life very easily
This is my first fighting game (for all intents and purposes). I've been playing regularly since launch and I've been hitting up my locals. I uh... don't know how to neutral.
You can't just stand there. Gotta move.
That bit about genetics and disabled players and all that, I'm completely blind. As in I don't even have a screen to look at because I can't see it all, and I'm also playing with a severe hand impairment where my hand is completely numb from the wrist to my fingertips and very limited range of motion for the fingers. Classic zingif controls and I think I do jam. Damn fine. I've also gotten pretty good at mortal Kombat 11 and MK1 and MKX, it's just about patience and practice to get through the idea of neutral and being better at it. One of my friends who is also playing only with one hand does pretty well in neutral, there's an entire community of disabled gamers out there playing as good as non-disabled gamers
What i do learn the matchup when is my turn what can i punish and whiff punish a button anti air and practice watch your replays and other players replays . if you get overwhelmed take a break from it come back next time it takes time . Over time you will improve keep at it never give up you got this 💪👍
the opponent in sf6 doesnt care about playing properly at all ...and yet they still win
I am 51 years old and am following a guide where I only need one combo and focusing on fundamentals. I open street fighter on my laptop and will literally practice it while watching tv. I have gotten to where I don't even need to warm up. I can wake up with no coffee and hit 10/10 first try. I can only imagine it would be easier if I were younger.
1800 hours in training mode sweet jesus. He is a beast
imma be real, footsies is a abstract concept. Its nothing you can "just grind" like combos. You have to intrinsinctly just understand it over time, and if you dont have the pre-position to get it, you wont.
A lot of players were complaining at me for having the most boring style of play they ever faced...
It means that I am doing something right. Consistency over anything else.
"proper" neutral is a great defensive tool
Well, more like Classic Neutral Game...
It is beyond me that Capcom believed that V-Trigger Cancel was the mechanic they had to tune up for SF6.
good video man
Someone really brought up a genetics?! That wasn't on my bingo card for 2024 on people copping out on why they're struggling in fighting games
Drive Rush/Drive Rush Cancel --> Skip Neutral == You Win
when I started playing I was dogshit at anti airing. I went into the lab. I spent hours practicing. I got it *down*. It felt good! I saw the results! I don't even THINK about anti airs any more, they just HAPPEN! IT'S INCREDBLE!
but then I had my 30th birthday and now driverush seems twice as fast. Fuck man. Back to the lab I go, I guess.
Well, some of the things I learned is that the game Matchups, are heavier than I thought when starting to use Bison. As a JP player, playing against any of the DLCs is a nightmare, especially AKI. But since I use Bison a little, she is no longer a problem. I would use Bison as a second only against Rashid, AKI, Akuma and JP. For the rest, I will only use JP.
Since we are on topic of genetics (not) being the limiting factor for most people to learn fighting games, as an autistic FG player I wanna chime in and give my two to three cents.
Background info so you know what position I come from, I have been formally diagnosed with aspergers syndrome since a young age and have been learning to deal with it for a while. However I wouldnt consider myself necessarily disabled in terms of learning in my specific case. I dont like using the term high-functional autism for many a reason, but Im going to use it here to specifically convey that my autism does not prohibit me to the same extent different diagnosis of autism do for other people.
Now, this is not to say that being autistic does not affect the learning experience for me, because that would certainly be a lie. Its more like instead of being straight negatives, some aspects of learning and the game I am very good at, and some I just do not have the capacity to learn. To put it to concrete examples, I personally have a rather easy time wrapping my head around risk/reward of scenarios and picking the highest reward lowest risk option for a current situation. It also doesnt take me insanely long to wrap my head around new characters, even more complicated ones I can usually get to a point where I am intentionally controlling the character within a shorter timeframe than some of my contemporary allistic players. I am very good at figuring matchups out, so much so that I can usually significantly improve at a matchup in a matter of a single session without any labbing required, especially against players better than me. And my higher prevalence to hyperfixating on aspects of characters I find enjoyable helps me learn things in even more depth than other people would, allowing me to get better at single-player aspects of the character faster than average. And against people who arent rotating their options well, its a free bufet of reaction antiair, reversal punish and hard callouts.
Now all of this sounds amazing, but it also has some negatives. First and foremost, I just do not get abstract concepts like preemptive neutral, layered RPS and natural rotation of options. All of these things that the average player would be able to get eventually by feel alone, I need to reason and basically build a rational framework around it. This however severely heightens the effort that I have to put it to understand it. How this manifests is that I have issues opening people up and get into my own head in neutral, offense and defense. I often get fixated on answering a specific option instead of avoiding having to answer that option or just play around that option. For example, I will only really start throwing people after I have seen them block and Faultless Defense my pressure resets, but the second they start to present fuzzy jump or another kind of defensive OS, instead of picking an option that will naturally take advantage of it, I nearly always end up trying to call that option out. This results in me having really slow pattern recognition in some cases, especially against way stronger players. Part of this is, to be completely fair, a skill issue, but its still something I have to logic around to help my mind pick the better option, instead of an option that wins, if you get what Im trying to say. In general, I just suck at being random in a good way and keeping a good rotation of options going, because I get so hyperfixated on one option my opponent did and cant zoom out and look at the bigger picture easily. It makes me an easy target of high-intensity and fast-pace playstyles with characters that require quick and snappy responses from you in a given moment. This by extension also means that I am not very good at playing characters that excel at these playstyles, usually having to play them my own way or wrap my head around the mental stack with logic and risk/reward. But its far from perfect and usually means that Im not very confident at playing preemptively and picking committal options under high stress scenarios.
Now, if youve been reading the cons and thinking "wait this is just like stuff allistic players struggle with wdym" and yes you are correct. A lot of the stuff that I as an autistic player struggle heavily with is the same stuff allistic players may struggle with, however in my case the severity and symptoms are a bit different, and thus is also my approach to fix these issues. Ive mentioned before that playing people better than me helps me iterate on MU experience very fast, but Ive also learned to force myself to iterate and try new stuff even against weaker players. Yes I know this is something genuinely everyone should be doing, but I think for me its a good alternative of sitting in the lab to practice stuffing an option on reaction, plus it helps me get comfortable actually using it and being confident that I can do it in real games. Ive learned to Instant Block and dashblock way better just by hunting down Testament, Johnny and Axl players in park, and I was able to apply this knowledge to do way better in tournaments versus those characters. Another thing that Ive done in order to get past these growing pains as a player is truly optimize my combo game for damage and consistency, noting down times where I didnt know what my combo was in a given situation and later figuring it out in training mode. I cannot tell you how much its helped me having stable routing for my main starters and knowing the ranges where I can get what. Once again using the fact that I can distinctly remember moments where I didnt know something, using knowledge to help take the worry of routing combos from my shoulders in that situation. Though Ive also gotten very good at freestyling combos with Sol if I forgot how a route should go or if Im unsure if a route I want to go for works there, so I can kinda piece together stuff without much thinking required from experience alone. Once again my amazing memory as an autistic player helps here a ton. Another way that I have dealt with my lack of rotating my options is to simply use the fact that Im not doing an option and waiting for a reaction punish as a default response to when I am not sure what they are going to do. This means Ive developed pretty good reactions (despite my painfully average raw reaction time) through repetition of whiffpunish drills in training mode and through playing the game. I am still far away from having the reactions to be able to play the clean neutral like players like Gamera and Punk play for example, but its still one of my stronger points and its allowed my playstyle to be largely consistent if I keep bad habits to a minimum.
Okay, so that was a lot of text. Im going to sum it up thusly:
TL,DR: being autistic made me really good at single player aspects of the game, but made me really bad at the interactive aspects of the game where another human is involved. I have however managed to create a playstyle for myself that minimizes having to do the latter, while also trying to develop an even better logical framework to wrap my head around my human opponent.
In conclusion, while being autistic does not mean you are going to be able to play fighting games and improve in them as fast as allistic players, especially with more severe diagnosis, you can absolutely get very good at these games and use your strengths to overcome your weaknesses as a player. And you dont even need me as an example, one of the Five Gods of Melee, Jason "Mew2King" Zimmerman, who was btw the first person to be crowned God of Melee before the rest of the five were and developed the metagame and tools for the comp scene of Melee just out of love for the game. If youre autistic and you feel like you need someone to relate to inside the top players of the FGC, look no further. This is not to say that you will become the next Mew2King, but if you never put in the effort and try you will never know. All I know is that we, the autistic FGC crowd, are just as capable of being amazing at these games as our fellow allistic FGC folk, given the time, circumstance and resources to develop that talent of course. And, if managed correctly, our autistic personality traits become memorable quirks people will only remember you fondly for, given said people have the social understanding of a mentally developed adult. So stand proud, you are worth it.
And for all allistic people reading this, thank you a lot for reading all this and I hope you can understand a bit more how this specific aspie Sol player feels about the game. You are certifiably awesome!!! And feel free to share your thoughts and experiences with learning fighting games, Id love to hear them all.
Yes, this people are smart, they studied, they know what needs to be done, and how it's done, and what exact advantage offensive or defensively it will provide, but they can't execute.
I'm there with you bunch, I know that this guy wants to whiff punish me, so I just stop pressing buttons and wait as soon as opponent moves I jump-in and yolo, that's what I have come up with for now.
Well lets not act like this game is perfect this is the most volatile SF ever to the point where we have a system mechanic that can constantly eat your inputs in neutral
Proper neutral doesn’t exist…………..in SF6
This fucking thumbnail is the funniest shit on earth bro
I love street fighter, but I'm not good at footsies...yet
👍 keyword yet!!!! Love your outlook!
there’s still pros and people like 4Philz that have 2K MR season 1 that dont like the game so it still depends on the person but I like your explanation
I don’t doubt that IQ and experience plays a role in fighting games lol so there is a genetic component
I do believe in the concept of hard work,but there is such a thing as b3ing gifted. I hate how we pretend that this doesnt exist.
I bought my first fighter when i was a teen. Put around 100 hours in training mode practicing. Played my brother who never touched a fighter. He just played random games casually. I got one round on him. He downloaded me in one round and barely beat me. Each game after that, it became more and more convincing. It was genuinely taumatizing. I still play, but there are monsters out there. Dont let them beat you, but also dont forget about them.
It doesn't matter how much time you spent in training mode, if you don't have pvp experience it won't do you any good. At best it would give you better damage output, if he had experience in other pvp games that would give him more of an edge because he has more experience in the PvP dynamic. It's often about understanding your opponents strategy and finding some solution for it
And there is so much scrub strategies in any fighting game that it's really nothing to feel bad about. Some tools are very easy to use but hard to counter at low level, and he might have just picked up on one of those quick and easy strats.
I promise you that if that game had online ranked play and you had put 100+ hours in ranked, you would have cooked him
Chris_T built different
Chris T lacks learning abilities. IT'S CALLED DISABILITIES 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Even FChamp called out Chris T by coaching him. SKILL ISSUES is the new terminology.
You just mash buttons after whiffing a medium and you go up to 1750 mr
Can you attest that USF4 had more honest neutral? you Able was mad crazy, the CEO set with Kazunoko one of the best of all time.
genetics in basketball? yes. genetics in video games? no lol
This video mindfucked me.
the only real innate thing is reaction time and that only matters a lot at the highest level
Not even. If it did punk would win every tournament.
@@DissipatedTire it's not a be-all-end-all like it is in shooters, otherwise there wouldn't be lots of 30 year olds at the top level. but Punk's godlike reactions definitely give him an edge. he can whiff punish, check stuff, and hit confirm with more consistency than even the other best players.
I'm genetically too attracted to marisa and her playstyle, that's why I lose at the character select screen. Sometimes I wish I was gay so I could just main Zangief
*waves wand* you are now gay
Just picked up sf6 and I hate the mechanics 😂 i'm trying to play proper SF (haven't played since 4) and I'm getting constantly Drive impacted/Rushed full screen specialed. I do realise I am learning so I'm putting up with it but gosh SF6 has some irritating mechanics.
The Drive system and starting with full resources messed up proper neutral in all honesty
No it didn't scrub
@@faaltov it actually has because with drive rush players literally skipping neutral and get in for free with plus frames now compared to past street fighters, like sf4 and sf5 you actually had to use your poke, properly space your moves, have good whiff punishment and play good to build towards your meter. Prime example of great neutral is punk in SFV. Defense is diminished more and the newer fighting games are made way more aggressive and defense has become less and less potent now with mechanics like drive impact where at the wall you get free combos that are unblockable wall pressure that reward aggressive play and the pushback forces you into the corner where they can just abuse opponents with throw loops. Neutral is definitely non-existent compared to like prime 3rd strike, sf4 and sf5 where those game priorities more defensive reads and prevent opponents from trying to get in where now you dont even have to take risk to do it.
@@mibbzx1493 for free? Good luck climbing out of diamond buddy
this is why platinum is the real wild wild west, one day you meet people that respect you and know footsies, sometimes you get people that play throwloops and DI
i can see why people would say neutral is just a social construct
This is SF6, embrace Monke and win
Damn My Tweet Made It🎉
Good tweet 🎉
@@kickroxs0970 Thanks!!!
Im reeeeallly good at nuetral with guile. I dont even know a combo besides flashkick into lvl 3. But i wanted to pick up ed. Now i get run over every match till i play them like 6 times cause ed anti air whiffs all the time so idk what to do for awhile. I figured out his lvl 2 combo tho and im doing better
As long as you know your moves and the other characters moves and you know habits in neutral play you it’s not that hard.
Send this to all the "casuals" Capcom are trying to cater to.
This game is totally different from SF5. The drive rush BS and the constant rushing and shimmy is stupid. If you want to have wall splats, might as well make it a 3D all around like Tekken 8. This game is OK and I just can't wait for the whole thing to be completed to see how many characters it will have.
I think there's a speed of play, with weaker players (I'm just at platinum with zangief) but I can "see" what they are doing, against stronger players I cannot.
Maybe that's just experience.
If someone want to improve neutral, try play Manon. 😁
Why is that?
Players blaming the game when there not doing well, classic Ltg excuse. It's the games fault 😂😂😂😂
Man dont give away the secrrets to developing a mental I dont want competition lmao
What fun is playing a competitive game with no competition? Do you play modern?
It’s SF bro not poker. Competition is fun. 😂
@@interceptingfist5682 Classic/Modern doesn't matter, once Modern players rank up high enough they learn their control scheme doesn't give them free wins and either adapt or get hard stuck.
this guy is only joking, at least I hope he is and not having a meltdown watching his win rate drop by 0.01%
Most people suck because most people have a bad attitude