I'm one of those trans masc people with a chest too large to bind and for some reason I choked up at this video... I guess I've just gotten used to transmeds making fun of people like me that hearing you talk compassionately about us was unexpected. Thank you. This whole video is a gem.
I think one of the things that gets to me (and aggravates my dysphoria) is the different ways society treats chests/breasts. Like honestly if I could go topless without it being "a thing" I probably wouldn't care about surgery.
As a transfeminine (AMAB) person, here is the weird story from my adolescence in Brazil: when I was around 12 my breast starting developing spontaneously. Although my mother freaked out I knew I was trans, so for me this was great. At 13 I started experimenting with hormones, self-medicating, as it was the only option there and then. This caused further development there. However, I started and stopped HRT multiple times for a whole decade and during that time still presented masculine, which in Rio means being shirtless a lot (tropical heat, beach city, and is just a thing that Brazilians do). Even though I clearly had noticeable breast development I still didn’t consider my chest area to be feminine (I still never think I look feminine enough). Some (very few) people made comments, others didn’t notice, didn’t care, or didn’t say anything. I’m pretty sure most people actually didn’t care at all. In all cases for over a decade, nobody ever used feminine pronouns for me. That was my experience for an entire decade. I definitely think androgynous chest is a thing; I’ve experienced it.
I am a afab enby and I LOVED to know your experience. That chest, that's what I want. But also, the feeling that it looks like I want it to look and the confidence that comes with it. Also, também sou brasileire aqui kkkkk só mandando um salve. Valeu ❤️
Isabela, one of the nicest parts about also understanding myself as enby has been to realize that we don’t have to accommodate to any expectation with regards to gender. I‘m trying to find my way to be ok with never truly passing as female despite almost 8 years on hormones, while at the same time being ok with the masculine aspects I could never get rid of. It’s probably a matter of mindset. I came across an old picture with friends at the seaside from when I was 20 and couldn’t believe I was shirtless and not thinking anything of it 😅 (today I wouldn’t do it, however, because now I have larger and unquestionably female looking boobs) Gostei de saber que também é brasileire. A língua portuguesa é um pesadelo para pessoas como nós (gender neutral). Dei sorte de estar agora onde se fala inglês, que é quase inteiramente neutro. Espero que as pessoas em sua vida tenham podido adotar uma linguagem mais neutra. Minha família ignora completamente minha transição mesmo quase uma década depois e falar com eles em português, com o uso intenso de nome e pronome natais, é estresse e disforia garantidos por dias... Saudações de alguém que te entende!
@@DrKristinaRizzotto Simm! In English is way easier cus almost everything is already neutral. Only a few friends around me use neutral words sometimes. But my biggest challenge right now is feeling more comfortable in my body. Anyway, recently I've met some other non binary folks in person in my city and it feels much better to actually feel that we're not alone. Fica bem, sucesso pra ti!!
Ironically I feel damn good when my nipples are visible through my t-shirt. I never wear bra nor do I bind, the reason is that I feel trapped and uneasy, I never hide 'em and somehow it feels less feminine. It actually feels liberating or norm breaking. Instead of giving in to this social dysphoria that is opressed upon us I ignore it, like if chests or boobs weren't genderized there wouldn't be as much dysphoria and people wouldn't have to have surgery cause of it. So even if I feel dysphoric about my chest seeing myself on the mirror, the act of not hiding them and not genderizing them is somewhat empowering and beautiful.
I feel very similarly. When I was in highschool (when I thought I *had* to dress a certain way) I used to wear underwire bras that provide a lot of "support" and shape, but I never understood why I hated they way it looks on me. When I realized that bras weren't necessary and are just fashion, it made me perceive my chest very differently (at least under my clothes). And I have a fairly large chest, DDD/E, but because it was "styled" differently it felt more like a part of me. Im pretty sure I'll get top surgery eventually, because the size I'd like to be is probably not achievable with my current size, and wow I hate my areolas.
YEEEEESSSSSSS!!! THIS is how I feel! I don't feel dysphoric at all about my chest, but I've been watching tons of top surgery videos hearing people getting excited to be able to run without a shirt on, and i'm like "I wanna do that". But... I can't because public indecency I guess??? It's just skin, people, get over it.
I like to think of it as how Eddie Izzard talks about wearing dresses: 'its not womens clothes, its my clothes. I bought them.' Its like a body part isnt a mans or a womans, its just the persons, whoever they are. And what they need to do to feel good with those parts, whether or not they need to change, is their business alone, and its my job to be supportive, not make those calls for them. Hope that makes sense
I so, so agree with this and it is the essence of empowerment and self-ownership. Having experienced true dysphoria re several parts of my body though, it presents the conundrum: How can one learn to love and own their embodiment as authentic, just what will it take? ... "Conversion" style therapy? Medical/hormonal transition? ... something in between? ... people need OPTIONS, more than just the dysphoria-to-surgical solution which seems to be assumed everyone 'should' embark on. The trans community as a whole need a greater array of options, all affirming, positive and truly empowering... we need to explore these, and the diversity within the community (whatever options chosen) should not equate to our 'rank' or 'passing prestige' (which will be toxic to the community) ps eddie hasn't been doing well of late (i hear) ...
Holy shiiiiiiit this is SO helpful!! My enby partner is thinking about getting some form of top surgery (I had DI and am a binary trans man), this will be so helpful for them!! Thank you so much for the nuance. (PS Came here for the contrapoints vid, stayed for the good kush trans content)
Also, there are nonbinary top surgery options. You can have some tissue left, you can have feminine nipple placement; there are options that folks just don't hear about!
@@asliwins337 wow blowing my mind!! As a binary trans guy I'm so blessed to learn more about deep enby knowledge. I thought I was starting to understand all this gender malarkey, and y'all enbies keep filling me in with more amazing intel!! Ty ♥️
I'm so glad that you found a way to be more comfortable with yourself. That's important. I was always jealous of thinner people with flatter chests growing up because I wanted to be able to change my presentation between masculine and feminine and I felt like I couldn't because of my chest. I hadn't really heard of trans people as a kid (especially transmasculine people) but I used to fantasize about dressing like a boy and passing as a boy. I always kinda thought if my chest was smaller I could more easily present as either in different contexts. It's interesting to hear from someone who is built that way say they never really thought about themselves in that way. I'm glad we can have conversations like this because I think it helps us explore all of these thoughts and feelings and figure out what is best for us.
Hey, I'm an AMAB nonbinary person, and while I'd like to lean very slightly feminine to get assumed as such, I ultimately would like to express in a very neutral way? And I also feel I might like to have breasts, but it doesn't feel like it's coming from a place of "feminine expression", but rather, just cus they'd feel good for me. And when contemplating them, I don't see them as being "feminine" on myself; I'd like them to just be there, underneath my neutral presentation, not being hidden but not really being noticed; just being part of who I am and feeling nice. So for me as they'd be on my person, they are indeed a neutrally-gendered thing. While as I mentioned I'd like to sprinkle a very slight bias towards being read as "feminine" into my expression, I'd find being overly feminine to be just as dysphoria-inducing as being overly masculine, so if they were inherently "feminine", I don't think they'd be something I could see myself as having. My identity is very solidly "in between and neither in particular". So, I'm just coming from the "other direction" to say that yeah, I totally agree with them being not a gendered thing, as I would like them as part of my neutral expression, rather than in any way for some kind of "femininity"!
I find my c chest/pecs very androgynous n experience 0 dysphoria w it :) I do however experience debilitating bottom dysphoria! It’s rare I find ppl similar to me I’m so glad you mentioned it!
I'm kind of the same but opposite because I'm AMAB. But I need my chest to grow out. I very much do my best to present both masculine and feminine, and I honestly don't care how people gender me so long as they don't do it maliciously. Man or woman they're both the same to me as far as how I see myself.
the healing power that this video has,,,,,,,,,, unprecedented i've recently started binding and have had a similar sort of thought process to what you talked through in this vid, i'm just a few steps behind lmao (trying to alleviate dysphoria by binding and later feeling dysphoric because it looks like i'm trying to appear fully masculine is not a fun time but maybe (hopefully!!) things will be slightly different now) thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with this!!!!! i totally agree that the idea of an androgynous chest is pretty validating and i'm so glad i stumbled across your channel :))
This definitely changed my perspective, I had never considered something like this at all. I am dfab & nonbinary and I want my chest to be flat or like, super tiny regardless of my presentation but, it's going to be a long time before I can get top surgery and in the interim I think thinking about it this way will help me cope with dysphoria a bit better ?
🤯 Yoooooo you just blew my whole mind!!! I’ve got effing G cups on a small body and want top surgery so bad, but despite being on multiple top surgery pages I’ve never heard of radical reductions! I’m enby and despite wanting a flatter chest it just feels so extreme to go from G to flat. I’ve always said that I’d have been so happy to have A’s/B’s that I could just bind when I was feeling it. I’m about to google this wildly; thank you SO MUCH. 🙏🏻😭❤️🙌🏻
I’m seeing now that on my browser you can no longer click a join button on the main page, but after clicking on the banner I was able to find the button on another page! Thank you!
Interestingly enough, I’ve always considered a flat chest as being nebulous, while any sort of perceivable breasts were feminine to me. My logic was that while people of any sex can naturally have a flat chest (or appear that way), it’s mostly DFAB peeps that naturally have breasts. This video has made me realize that I still need to work on disconnecting my associations of gender with physical appearance and sex. Even though being transfem, I really want breasts :(
Very interesting video. It's a bit funny that we have both had a bit of a revelation over the last week. I viewed my facial hair as masculine and so when I came out one of the first things I did was get rid of the facial hair. However I do not like my appearance without it. But my brain had this set that facial hair was masculine and that androgynous or feminine would mean no facial hair. However I've recently met several trans fem people who actually love their facial hair and so it broke the binary idea in my mind. I began to realize that if my coming out was an effort to be who I was and be comfortable with myself then my appearance was going to be a huge part of that, and so I've decided to grow the facial hair back. Also being genderfluid there are days that I want to appear as more masculine and days that I want to appear as more feminine and I have no problem doing that in other ways that my facial hair doesn't really affect. My own feelings on chest tissue is that it can be androgynous, I mean I'm a larger AMAB so I have plenty of chest tissue in the form of fat, I've never seen it as masculine or feminine, it's just there. I know it's not the same as someone who is AFAB, with the tissue itself being different, but I have no problem seeing it as androgynous if the person is comfortable with it. That tends to be what I look for myself in people is are they comfortable with who they are, and if they are then why change that? And truth be told my grandmother could grow facial hair way faster than I will ever be able to and yet that didn't change the fact that she was very much a proud woman. Many of our ideas about gender are going to change in the future and this conversation itself might one day seem near barbarous considering how far we've come already. Anyway, another fantastic video, it's always good to check out your videos and see things from another's perspective. One of the best channels on TH-cam, hands down!
YES! This is something that I have been coming to terms with myself, but from a different perspective. I have all my life thought my chest was wrong (I'm AFAB NB, for reference) because it was too small to be feminine enough, but it turns out that was because no one taught me how to put a bra on right. All along, I had been having chest dysphoria about not being large enough. Now I am glad about my chest being the size it is because I am able to switch between masculine and feminine presentation if I want to. I always thought maybe I just had a man's chest with one of those conditions that makes them grow a bit of breast tissue, but after I found that I could also make my chest also look feminine, I have come to believe that I do have an androgynous chest and it makes me happy. Someone else in the comments mentioned that this might be gender fluid and while I resonate with that some, I do still prefer the label NB because I don't want to put myself in a smaller box.
I had top surgery that used a pedicle nipple technique, this left a little bit more tissue than if I'd had nipple grafts. This worked well for me, I wanted that nipple technique a lot and the slight amount of extra tissue leaves me at like a double A? But it could also just be viewed as pecs, I know plenty of cis men who have a similar amount of tissue as I do. It is wonderfully androgynous. Because of this I feel that my chest can sway femme or masc depending on how I present other things; maybe I'm a buff dude, maybe I'm a petite woman.
Also, the surgeon I saw has done "nonbinary top surgeries" before. Basically this meant he's done surgeries where the nipple placement is more traditionally feminine, or leaves more breast tissue.
I recently became more educated about pedicle-sparing techniques! It seems really cool, though I wonder exactly how much material has to be left in place. I'm sure it depends on how big your chest is, and thus how long the nerve is that's being preserved
@@MusingMoss - yeah, it depends on the size of the chest initially. I never took testosterone, which also impacts due to fat distribution. But I went from a D to a double A with that technique, so honestly it doesn't seem like much needs to be left. The surgeon did say some of his binary male patients prefer the grafts so they can be even flatter, but reminded me that cis men do still have some tissue there. But the technique was great, I had feeling back in one nipple the day after and was clear of potential nipple loss within a couple of days.
I feel like chest size is highly contextual to the rest of one's body. If you are thin then chest tissue is usually read as female. if you are fat then it is less noticable, and if you are muscular then "the bump" can pass as pec muscles.
I love hearing your thoughts processes. This whole journey for me has not only gotten me more excepting of myself, it has made me less judgmental of others and their choices. Thank you.
i'm amab and i had a lot of dysphoria about my chest before starting HRT. After about a year of hrt i realized i didn't really want to go more femme and was much happier being androgynous. I went off hormones at that point, but a lot of the fat redistribution stuck around and i now have a cups. i sometimes get self conscious about my chest being a bit bouncy when i'm presenting masc, and dysphoric about them not having developed fully (like wondering if they just look like 'man boobs'). over time tho as i've gotten more used to them, i've started to really like them and view my chest as androgynous. especially since i'm still working through some fear issues around presenting more femme in public, i find them very reassuring lol. thanks for exploring this topic!
amab genderqueer here, I have a related experience. I'm overweight and I've had 'moobs' since I was like 10 or 11. I also looked like an adult lesbian for most of my adolescence. I have wide hips, narrow shoulders, and a big butt and I was often mistaken as a girl. All of this caused me a lot of social anxiety at the time. But as got further into my 20s and began expanding my sexuality and discovering my fem side, I began to really like my boobs, at least in the right context, while being subby or fem. Now at 32, they are very large and feminine for an amab, I've become increasingly enamored with them and the idea of being fem and masc simultaneously in general. So much that I'm weighing hormones and body mods to make myself more enby. (not that I can afford it) Yet I still have the hang ups about my tiddies while in public situations. I can understand the urge to bind them to fit an ideal, only in my instance it would be to closet my enbiness from the ignorant masses. Being fat, poor, and in Florida seriously limits my options to do so though, so I just tolerate being an anxious mess with a 20 inch purple ponytail in public. Looking like comic book guy. If I was in the PNW where I belong, I would probably be rocking galaxy print tights, cleavage, nails, and a fucking glitter beard ftw. But I totally get this androgynous breast thing now. I've warmed up to it after seeing a lot of chubby boys and enby amabs on the internet (even some afab boys) and strongly identifying with this sort of male femininity. Softboy for lyfe
Hello from the future~ Thank you so much for making this video! The coronavirus has given us all a great deal of time with the self and as an enby bb, this was the first time I found myself thinking more internally about top surgery and radical reduction; the perspective you've delved into was the soundboard that I needed to confirm that dysphoria wasn't driving me to a point of inaccuracy with myself and my real, untainted feelings about my body in relation to my gender (societal ideologies are so messy). But thank you again for the wonderful content \m/
after being on T for several months my chest has started to look more androgynous in my eyes, which is nice. I think I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to size where it's very easy to hide or show. although 9 times out of 10 I'd like to have a flat chest, and I feel that getting top surgery would be the best option for me. I try to think about it the other way around and if I already had a flat chest that would be comfortable almost all the time. I think it's a matter of what you want to have more often, if that makes sense. anyways that's my take, and you talking about your experience did give me some things to think about.
I'm non-binary genderfluid (ish) born male, I've recently been trying a similar method of thought about my chest area when I'm feeling more ambiguous or more feminine, viewing it as flat tiddies. uuuuunfortunately this hasn't been working for me and intermittent dysphoria is still very much a thing, but while it hasn't worked for me, I do think that this way of thinking has a lot of merits and could definitely work for some
There you go again making me think about things. I really like this video. Figuring out my gender has been such a struggle for me. I have a lot of social dysphoria that I don't know how to deal with since I don't have strong body dysphoria. I haven't been able to figure out what kind of medical transitions might be right for me because of this. This gives me an interesting new perspective to think about. I agree with the thought process that a smaller, more easily hidden chest would make sense for androgyny. That makes me feel better about my own chest as well.
I feel like I know exactly what an “androgynous” chest is, it’s like the size in early puberty, when I didn’t feel like my body was femininely sexualized, before that one day someone at the skate park said that I had big boobs. before that first comment, before my breasts were so big that it effected athletic behavior. Right before that comment that meant I had to pay more attention to what kinda of tops and support I wore and mindful of the activity because that was going to set perceptions
This comment reads like gibbery-jabber, but my not-constant body dysmorphia is probably related to internalized sexism, specifically: objectification and an apparently constant onslaught of perception of “sexy/not sexy”
I'm Genderfluid, and whenever I feel masculine my Chest bothers me and gives me dysphoria, to the point that I didn't go swimming all summer because of it. I'd just wish that I had some way to bind while swimming, but that'd probably never work :( If that wouldn't be a Problem, I'd be happy just calling my Chest Androgynous.
i herd there is actuly watrerproof binders to swim in but there a bit expensive but may be worth it. i have issues with swimming too mostly cuse i cant nust take my shirt off like a normal guy or im afraid people will notice even tho im pretty small.
If you have $$ check out shapeshifters, they make GORGEOUS swimming binders. You can also just swim with a regular binder if it's not too tight, just don't take it into a pool without washing it by hand after. You can also do the sports bra/shirt combo, or sports bra/rash guard if it's not too dysphoric
I honestly think it's all about mindset, which relates a lot to what you got from genetics. If people tell you ll your life that chest bumps are feminine, you might start to dislike or feel weird about your "feminine" chest as you realize your gender identity. This, in turn, means that no matter the size, it's possible to be uncomfortable and/or dysphoric about a chest that's larger or smaller than what most people have. For example, I'm a non-binary person who is biologically female and have an A cup. I don't bind, but I do have days where I get very uncomfortable with my chest and will spend extra time picking clothes that cover it better. I even wore a jacket for a full year, in CALIFORNIA, even during physical education. I don't aim to even go trying binders, however, because it usually doesn't bother me much, and I can still wear loose shirts, v-necks, regular bras, etc., without compromising. The fact is that, in most circumstances, I'm not in a part of the gender expression spectrum where chest visibility triggers dysphoria. I do recognize that most people who are NB and/or trans with the same biological sex still bind even with a chest my size, or go to extra lengths to cover it with clothing layers, which is why I can see where you're coming from. I feel pretty androgynous, or at least gender non-conforming, with my chest and the way it's presented in clothing.
Wow. you helped me with this video. Thank you. I love the idea of thinking of my chest as androgynous... really helps. It helped me feel less dysphoric.
I think if this perspective on your own body makes you more comfortable and content, yet let's you present as your mood takes you, then it is a great thing.
I find your voice so damn soothing, if you read books/essays/poetry oh my, heavenly. 😉 Whatever makes you happy, knowing yourself is a huge process & being able to play in both genders I find freeing. Your story is only yours as it should be. 🤓😏
Appreciate this as I'm figuring things out... 💜 Being included on your journey, parasocially! I also found the (intense, lots of CW...) novel Freshwater by Akwaeke Emezi helpful around this, towards the end.
As a trans femme this concept actually helped me deal better with my own top dysphoria and small chest It’s hard to see yourself as non-binary when as you mentioned, a ton of aspects about the body are coded to a certain gender But this does help in thinking about how those aspects of myself can be used in a variety of ways
A cis person here greats you all wonderful people! Love deep dive critical thinking stuff. Thank you Luxander for the video. It made me think of the way I see my chest and if I'd ever consider reduction or even surgery if I had a bigger chest. I think of myself what society would consider to be a very feminine person. Yet, it's been 4 years I bind or try to hide my chest. It started when I came to terms with my asexuality. I never liked drawing attention to it because society sexualizes it too much and when I bind it makes me feel safer just like wearing an armor. All this also made me wonder if one of the reasons a trans person chooses to bind or would consider a surgery is that they do not want to be sexualizes for something they do not feel like they should be sexualizes if this makes sense.
As someone who is biologically “female” and non-binary, I bind and literally stay up at night in distress about my chest and it is extremely surprising like you said that people who don’t already have smaller chest tissue would want it. Bc I already have it and I just don’t know, some days I’m like this is what makes me, me and other days I’m just like if they fell off i wouldn’t be mad. Idk the thought of an androgynous chest makes me kinda happy Bc maybe I’ll be able to one day like myself fully or be completely certain on removal. 💝 Love your channel 💜
Really enjoy your vids, your provocative, thoughtful, careful (to be as inclusive as possible) presentations. This one is especially interesting, as it took me on a quick remembrance of my entire life, all 67+ years of it ... the times I've wished I was male, the times I've wished I was a "better" female, the times I've wished I'd been born a certifiable hermaphrodyte, and my life long confusion about the subject of gender which, generally, is not confusing for a majority of people. Funny thing, though, as you were talking, from within my own context of "what is male/what is female", I suddenly found myself thinking about the song "I Enjoy Being a Girl". I had to know ... the gender of the writer. Turns out there were two writers (lyrics vs. melody, I'm sure), both men, Rodgers and Hammerstein (for the musical "Flower Drum Song"). Quote from the song: "I'm strictly a female female ..."; only a male of any sexuality, could have written those words.
Omg, so many feelings around this. How did you know i needed this?? lol I have a small, and UNEVEN chest, and I've been trying to suss out my feelings about it for awhile now. I like, and dislike, its perceived femininity, but it can be versatile, or an embodiment of the contradictions, or just 'hey, it's my chest, I'm non-binary, so this is a nonbinary chest.' YES
when i think of andro chests i think of very small chests (like jude karda or richi moetrons) or chests with lots of hair or muscle underneath (like ty turner)
When I was in college I went out sometimes without anything at all. It was before I questioned my gender for the second time (the first one I questioned if I was a trans man, and realized I wasn't). I just hated bras, how they felt, how they couldn't make my chest not bounce. So I decided not to wear them and it was liberating. I still lived with my parents and weren't at all accepting so I had to wear them again. But then I decided I'd wear sports bras. They were better but not enough. When I realized I'm non binary, I desperately searched for a binder and it felt, again, sooooo liberating. But nowadays I feel that they constrict my breathing way too much. They are beginning to feel almost as uncomfortable as bras. The difference is the way they look. I like so much how they make my chest look. One other issue is that my chest is too big, so I have to also use baggy clothes, but I really love them, so that's okay. Anyway, where I'm going with this is: I think I want to have a reduction, when I can. Because it might allow me to not bind and still feel socially comfortable. I've met lesbian cis girls who had extremely small chest and just didn't wear anything. With baggy clothes I think I could feel even better than today. But I need to see a therapist about all of my questioning my gender, that's the hard part to get right now
I get what the person was saying personally. My chest is way too big to adequately bind. I would love an extreme reduction so that as far as my expression is concerned, I could present more femme or masc leaning on diff days
I've thought about this too, and I'd say your conclusion is way better than mine... because my dumb brain just went "maybe just having one boob would be androgynous?" but like... yeah nevermind. I'm also nonbinary. As for myself, however, I'd feel the most comfortable having large boobs but for them to be very hairy. I had top surgery but regret that and now looking into getting implants. So, as I'm totally flat with no chance at re-growth, how big I can actually go with implants is kinda limited. Skin stretches... but only to a certain point. I'll probably not be able to go bigger than C-cups, but that's alright if so. If I think they're too small by then, I can always wear a padded push-up bra, or go for bigger implants at a later point. As for the hair, I was on testosterone in my past and actually got a fair bit of chest hair, which I am very fond of. When I think of my body, I don't really think of that I want every part of it to be androgynous. It's more like I strive for a goal of androgyny in totality, if that makes sense. Like for example, when I present with boobs (breast forms, which I always wear) and a beard, I come across as androgynous in total, because beards are coded masculine and breasts are coded feminine. So me having both of those traits at once, confuses people whether I am a man with boobs, or a woman with a beard, as both options are hard to comprehend for the cis. The conclusion, however, is that most people read me as a man with boobs, which feels strange... because I'm afab! But I also really quite like it, that although I'm not quite as androgynous as I'd wish, passing as "ambiguously male" actually feels quite good for me. Especially because then I can be super feminine in my style, and that only adds to my androgyny! But when it comes to my chest, I want for it to be mainly feminine. Then I like it that my face is masculine, my hips/body shape feminine, my voice masculine, my genitals feminine, and my body hair situation masculine. So my body is more like a mosaic of feminine parts varied with masculine parts, which together becomes a total sum of androgyny. So I'd say my hairy chest + boobs on it would be androgynous together with the rest of me, but on its own it would be (mostly) feminine. I love being a mosaic of fem and masc traits like that. I find gender euphoria in that! If only I could get my chest filled out soon enough.
I'm also afab non-binary and can bind myself pretty flat (I'm a 32C so there's not too much there). Unfortunately, I experience a lot of discomfort from it. I can do it for the work day but by the end my chest is aching a bit and I can't do it multiple days in a row without it hurting. It also affects my ability to run on the days I bind so I have to plan it around my running days. Even tighter sports bras cause me discomfort in my ribs and anything that covers well enough tends to start digging into my armpits. So I want top surgery in order to not have to wear any sort of chest wrangler anymore. I also have difficulty looking at my chest in a mirror even with a binder. I just want to be flat without the pain
I hate it when I am late to these, because I want the convo and back and forth with these amazing humans who are part of your notification squad. ;) Health stuff is a bitch; my brain is trying to smash itself. Sometimes I have to take meds and lie down or I die and stuff. So when I am not here smashing out pleonastic tomes on the keyboard, it isn't because I don't adore you and these convos. "I understand that the way that I feel about my body is not 100% rational...." That may be my next tattoo, Lux. ;) It is interesting to think about all this right now - my bestie is here from France for a month, and she is very small chested and has struggled with feeling feminine and attractive to cishet dudes (how the fuck did I get a straight bestie?) We were just last night talking about how breasts are so much the archetypical FEMALE characteristic - so if people see you with a bump, they are going to assume you to be a binary woman. It isn't right, but humans want simple basic easy answers....hence the pushback against anything which challenges binary gender norms in the first place. Interesting that the same societal bullshit can harm us all.
I'd love to be able to see my chest as androgynous, however I'm meant to move onto a 30D cup, which I utterly despise (and feels really tight), so I usually wear 32C, which still doesn't fit whatsoever. This means I end up with DySpHoRiA. I'm just a kid and have no access to binding as am closeted enby. Being closeted means I have to wear "women's" clothes, which doesn't cover up my chest at all (and feels horrible). The concept of an androgynous chest seems so amazing to me... But I don't feel that way and am still longing for top surgery every day. Social dysphoria is far more overwhelming than my body dysphoria, which is then adding to my chest dysphoria, as people view it as feminine/female. My gender identity evolves everyday but rn I'm feeling quite trans-masculine, so exposing my shape everyday makes me feel horrible, as it is so feminine. If I was "a woman" I would have the perfect body (thigh gap, hourglass figure etc.) But I don't want those things. My close friends are trying to help me pick a new name from the closet, and have determined I need a softboi name. If anyone has any suggestions, (I like Alexander/Xander (family name), Ellis and Hayden rn) I'd love to hear them. Thank you for coming to my tedtalk.
I agree with the previous reply, a sports bra is definitely important. While bras with cups will generally aim to push breast tissue upwards, sports bras usually push it inwards. Trust me, I’m in the same boat and the type of bra I wear makes a world of difference. There’s also the style of clothing to think about. Bomber jackets and non-stretchy denim are usually pretty good at disguising curves. Baggy sweatshirts could go either way. And imo certain fashion styles tend more towards androgyny or masculinity (like grunge, skater, punk, etc). Experiment a bit, and see if you can find clothes you like yourself in.
I have a size-A cup size, as far as I can work out, I was assigned a boy at birth, I am British, though not as pro-Brexit as I once was, I identify as a mixture of transgender and non-binary, I love and identify with Females❤ I feel Feminine❤ Lol from Petra
I imagine it can being really hard to love your own body, when gender perception from society is pushed on you and that's just not the way you are. At the end of the day the only opinion that matters about your body is your own and what ever feels best for you is the way to go.
even as an amab transfeminine enby who's on HRT for about 10 months, based on the experience you described on this video, I'd guess our chests are pretty much alike at this point. just lask week I went to the pharmacy with an industrial half-face mask with n100 filters and a faceshield (call me paranoid, but my boyfriend has diabetes and my sister rhinosinusitis) dressed in "male" jeans and a large shirt with just a small sports bra I stole from my sister as a binder, the lady behind the balcony was filling my prescriptions when she looked at me and said M… *looks down at my chest* Mr.? Lander? (yes, my birth given name which I also am not sure how I feel about either haha). and I just nodded 'cause I was not about to have a gender discussion with a respiratory mask people can barely understand me through and also because I mostly - even more now - try to dress more "masculine" for the sake of cisplaying and my safety (you know, Brazil, highest transgender murder rate, etc.) but from that moment on I was like SUPER concious of my chest, crossing my hands in front of my torso, hunching and so forth. so yeah I'm pretty sure I could describe it as an "androgynous" chest by now if I don't actually bind and/or wear ultra large shirts. the part our experiences differ, I suppose - please do correct me if you feel differently - is that even though I've always been that kid who hated being shirtless, sometimes even at home, these days I wouldn't even as much as consider passing through a window without a shirt on. and I've already had pretty much all the medical paper work to apply for a surgery to "correct" "gynecomastia", but the more months this pandemic drags itself and postpone the day of my surgery the more I've thought over and over about how to aproach who will probably be a cishet male surgeon with the words "so… I've never really had a flat, flat chest [which is true, since volleyball gave me some pecks lol]… what kind of procedure/intervetion you think would be best to not completely remove all the tissue there…?" and I expect resistence but if they as so much say something along the lines "well, with this procedure we won't be able to remove that much tissue…" I already know I'll jump at it like a lioness does to a deer's throat (sorry for the violent metaphor)! because I've realized even though I've always told myself I wanted absolutely everything from HRT BUT the breast development, even at this point while I'd just like to "push" them back a little, I'm not dysphoric about them at all… I'm just not capable of dealing with the fear of my parents noticing (besides all the other changes) when they come to town, or people shamelessly staring at them to try to find answers in their cisgendered brains on the streets (where my anxiety peaks) and I can't ever picture myself doing something so frivolous as going to the pool or to the beach before the surgery anymore… maybe the way I put it makes people think I'm being forced to do this surgery. but that's not how I feel either. I certainly do recognize the privilege it is to be fearlessly topless basically anywhere (though this was never the case for me, particularly), but mostly I'm finding exausting to make sure I always have a binder - and a shirt that covers it - everytime someone knocks at the door, or spending too much time picking the right clothes to hide behind, both the tiddies and the the more modest changes (curves and stuff) whenever I have to walk out into the world. it's like "society imposed dysphoria" (am I even making any sense? lol). so yes. I do think I need this surgery. do I want an absolutely "masculinized" flat chest? hell no. also, sometimes their development scares me to the point of suddenly stop taking my estrogen pills, and I really, REALLY can't wait to keep letting the other changes come without that fear in the back of my mind and on the front of my body.
Yes. Both men and women have breasts. They aren't a uniquely female trait. There are no uniquely male or female traits! Anything a man has a woman can have (or vice verse). Anything. Beards/moustaches, body hair, big feet/hands, small hands/feet, hairlessness, petite body, "masculine" body, "feminine" voice, "masculine" voice, etcetera. People with androgen insensitivity syndrome prove a woman can have testis or that a man can have a v_gina. I could go on but that should suffice to prove my point: there are no uniquely male or female traits.
I watched a video recently about an intersex person who identified as female and was born without sex organs. While I'm jealous (I don't want any of these trash organs!), I found it interesting that she is read as female despite her body not producing sex hormones (the video didn't say if she took hormones or not). She had chest tissue as well. It really makes me wonder if an adult body that was never exposed to any sex hormones would be of completely ambiguous gender or if they would look more female to someone with a binary mindset. Maybe what society sees as feminine *is* the true neutral? After all, as I understand it all fetuses are female until they are exposed to testosterone. I'm agender and I still have a lot of dysphoria about my lower body (I've had top surgery) so trying to see things like this makes me feel better when I'm constantly getting misgendered. Edit: I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings about calling reproductive organs "trash organs." This is only reflective of my feelings about my organs specifically. I know a lot of people want them. I just don't.
As an enbie who was born male, my chest causes me the majority of my dysphoria. I've been working towards an androgynous chest and I understand how it's hard to conceptualize, but it's something to work towards that allows me to feel some control.
I think my answer is having a muscular wide base, but a certain amount of fat so that it's still soft to the touch and not hard and masculine. Frankly, I think it's much easier to achieve this sort of ideal with the body you have than what I was born with. Building muscle isnt that hard, but doing that while maintaining volume and softness is a really hard balancing act.
Finally, maybe I spend too much time at the gym but men totally have chest bumps too. That's not exclusively feminine. Its more the shape that codes male/female. So honestly you in a binder is probably far more relatable to a man who lifts than exclusively a woman. Also, some men just have big ol tiddys independent of exercise.
Is it weird that I still feel super masc even when I have size DD breasts? Like somehow I want to be able to be shirtless this way, but I've always been self-conscious about my breasts, but I still like having them too. Good for some dresses and stuff. I hope that more enby peeps get more recognition though. I still think that there should be a sex and gender marker, or just be eliminated entirely.
To me my breasts are only bags of flesh, no more, no less. I don't care for top surgery, nor would I mind very much if they were gone. I definitely do not associate them with anything feminine. What angers me and/or makes me sad though is that everyone else around me seems to think they're an expression of my "feminity" and the dysphoria that causes.. I could do without 😵
This is kind of sidelong to the top surgery part of the subject, but you can definitely have an androgynous chest by the definition of androgyny, even with a bare chest. A lot of female body builders do (which isn’t to say that they can’t be very feminine women, I want to be clear), as do a lot of overweight males (same disclaimer). If you have muscular pecs and a small amount of chest tissue that just makes your nipples slightly more protruding, that is aspects of traditionally masculine and traditionally feminine. Similarly, if you have enough body fat to have breasts, but they’re proportionally smaller than the rest of your body compare to most women, that’s also aspects of feminine and masculine Made the examples cis just for simplicity. When there's more of a comfort zone ambiguity involved, there's of course a combination of clothing and other presentation involved as well/instead
Coming from an AMAB perspective I get feedback that I have something going on but idk, I would take money that people wouldn't notice my shirt being off. I've always had some growth in the pec area that wasn't muscle. No one cared? Maybe I should check again... These are rounder and flopper than I remember. Maybe I am girl afterall. Lets check the mirror. Ok, no. Those are angled, separated. Clearly mostly muscle. No mother would chastise me for ruining their child by not wearing a shirt. I would say that yes, Androgynous chests can exist.
Thank you again for a great insight into the variations of disphoria and gender identity. I understand and identity many more of the changes in mood that mean some days I'm less uncomfortable in my body than others. Most of which I have not been able to properly connect to myself until recently. I move between being very much closer to wanting to fully identity as female to times I am comfortable in my body and accepting that I in a male body and that's it.
Theoretical question. I am sorry if it might come across stupid or something. Is it possible at all to be totally comfortable in your body if you are non-binary and not having any social gender disphoria, where you don't want to change anything at all (face, voice, chest etc)?
Ah cis woman have all sizes and shapes of breast. My sister and cousin is very flat chested. They are cis straight feminine woman. Neither of them feels less feminine or less of a woman. I am cis female androgynous woman. I have larger breast and don't down play them because they are part of my body type. It doesn't not change how I dress or my androgynous. Androgynous is a equal female and Male elements. Which we determine how we choose to make that balance. There are women who get breast reduction for pain discomfort. Then there are cis men who have "man boobs) some are even thin men have this. Breast size isn't directly relate to female or male.
The dictionary will describe androgyny as having aspects usually attributed to both genders. This can be often be read as ambiguous gender, and thus the word is often used to mean ambiguous or "could be read as either".
![What Does "Nonbinary" MEAN? // What IS "Nonbinary" Gender? [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZGQIrYlvrrs/mqdefault.jpg)
![What Does "Nonbinary" MEAN? // What IS "Nonbinary" Gender? [CC]](/img/tr.png)
![I'm Transmasculine and DON'T Want Top Surgery [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nyXQ0bVIP1s/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why I'm Genderqueer [CC]](/img/n.gif)
I'm one of those trans masc people with a chest too large to bind and for some reason I choked up at this video... I guess I've just gotten used to transmeds making fun of people like me that hearing you talk compassionately about us was unexpected. Thank you. This whole video is a gem.
I think one of the things that gets to me (and aggravates my dysphoria) is the different ways society treats chests/breasts. Like honestly if I could go topless without it being "a thing" I probably wouldn't care about surgery.
I FEEL THIS
As a transfeminine (AMAB) person, here is the weird story from my adolescence in Brazil: when I was around 12 my breast starting developing spontaneously. Although my mother freaked out I knew I was trans, so for me this was great. At 13 I started experimenting with hormones, self-medicating, as it was the only option there and then. This caused further development there. However, I started and stopped HRT multiple times for a whole decade and during that time still presented masculine, which in Rio means being shirtless a lot (tropical heat, beach city, and is just a thing that Brazilians do).
Even though I clearly had noticeable breast development I still didn’t consider my chest area to be feminine (I still never think I look feminine enough). Some (very few) people made comments, others didn’t notice, didn’t care, or didn’t say anything. I’m pretty sure most people actually didn’t care at all. In all cases for over a decade, nobody ever used feminine pronouns for me. That was my experience for an entire decade.
I definitely think androgynous chest is a thing; I’ve experienced it.
Similar story. I only found out I was NB later on. I am trans-NB and I am not on HRT.
I want that
I am a afab enby and I LOVED to know your experience. That chest, that's what I want. But also, the feeling that it looks like I want it to look and the confidence that comes with it.
Also, também sou brasileire aqui kkkkk só mandando um salve. Valeu ❤️
Isabela, one of the nicest parts about also understanding myself as enby has been to realize that we don’t have to accommodate to any expectation with regards to gender. I‘m trying to find my way to be ok with never truly passing as female despite almost 8 years on hormones, while at the same time being ok with the masculine aspects I could never get rid of. It’s probably a matter of mindset. I came across an old picture with friends at the seaside from when I was 20 and couldn’t believe I was shirtless and not thinking anything of it 😅 (today I wouldn’t do it, however, because now I have larger and unquestionably female looking boobs)
Gostei de saber que também é brasileire. A língua portuguesa é um pesadelo para pessoas como nós (gender neutral). Dei sorte de estar agora onde se fala inglês, que é quase inteiramente neutro. Espero que as pessoas em sua vida tenham podido adotar uma linguagem mais neutra. Minha família ignora completamente minha transição mesmo quase uma década depois e falar com eles em português, com o uso intenso de nome e pronome natais, é estresse e disforia garantidos por dias... Saudações de alguém que te entende!
@@DrKristinaRizzotto Simm! In English is way easier cus almost everything is already neutral. Only a few friends around me use neutral words sometimes. But my biggest challenge right now is feeling more comfortable in my body. Anyway, recently I've met some other non binary folks in person in my city and it feels much better to actually feel that we're not alone. Fica bem, sucesso pra ti!!
Ironically I feel damn good when my nipples are visible through my t-shirt. I never wear bra nor do I bind, the reason is that I feel trapped and uneasy, I never hide 'em and somehow it feels less feminine. It actually feels liberating or norm breaking. Instead of giving in to this social dysphoria that is opressed upon us I ignore it, like if chests or boobs weren't genderized there wouldn't be as much dysphoria and people wouldn't have to have surgery cause of it. So even if I feel dysphoric about my chest seeing myself on the mirror, the act of not hiding them and not genderizing them is somewhat empowering and beautiful.
I feel the exact same about my chest. FREEDOM!
I feel very similarly.
When I was in highschool (when I thought I *had* to dress a certain way) I used to wear underwire bras that provide a lot of "support" and shape, but I never understood why I hated they way it looks on me.
When I realized that bras weren't necessary and are just fashion, it made me perceive my chest very differently (at least under my clothes). And I have a fairly large chest, DDD/E, but because it was "styled" differently it felt more like a part of me. Im pretty sure I'll get top surgery eventually, because the size I'd like to be is probably not achievable with my current size, and wow I hate my areolas.
YEEEEESSSSSSS!!! THIS is how I feel! I don't feel dysphoric at all about my chest, but I've been watching tons of top surgery videos hearing people getting excited to be able to run without a shirt on, and i'm like "I wanna do that". But... I can't because public indecency I guess??? It's just skin, people, get over it.
Oof its the opposite for me, its like a disgusting feeling that i have on my body
omg so much this!!! Thank you for writing my thoughts down :)
I like to think of it as how Eddie Izzard talks about wearing dresses: 'its not womens clothes, its my clothes. I bought them.' Its like a body part isnt a mans or a womans, its just the persons, whoever they are. And what they need to do to feel good with those parts, whether or not they need to change, is their business alone, and its my job to be supportive, not make those calls for them. Hope that makes sense
I like that
I so, so agree with this and it is the essence of empowerment and self-ownership. Having experienced true dysphoria re several parts of my body though, it presents the conundrum: How can one learn to love and own their embodiment as authentic, just what will it take? ... "Conversion" style therapy? Medical/hormonal transition? ... something in between? ... people need OPTIONS, more than just the dysphoria-to-surgical solution which seems to be assumed everyone 'should' embark on. The trans community as a whole need a greater array of options, all affirming, positive and truly empowering... we need to explore these, and the diversity within the community (whatever options chosen) should not equate to our 'rank' or 'passing prestige' (which will be toxic to the community)
ps eddie hasn't been doing well of late (i hear) ...
Holy shiiiiiiit this is SO helpful!! My enby partner is thinking about getting some form of top surgery (I had DI and am a binary trans man), this will be so helpful for them!! Thank you so much for the nuance. (PS Came here for the contrapoints vid, stayed for the good kush trans content)
Also, there are nonbinary top surgery options. You can have some tissue left, you can have feminine nipple placement; there are options that folks just don't hear about!
@@asliwins337 wow blowing my mind!! As a binary trans guy I'm so blessed to learn more about deep enby knowledge. I thought I was starting to understand all this gender malarkey, and y'all enbies keep filling me in with more amazing intel!! Ty ♥️
I'm so glad that you found a way to be more comfortable with yourself. That's important. I was always jealous of thinner people with flatter chests growing up because I wanted to be able to change my presentation between masculine and feminine and I felt like I couldn't because of my chest. I hadn't really heard of trans people as a kid (especially transmasculine people) but I used to fantasize about dressing like a boy and passing as a boy. I always kinda thought if my chest was smaller I could more easily present as either in different contexts. It's interesting to hear from someone who is built that way say they never really thought about themselves in that way. I'm glad we can have conversations like this because I think it helps us explore all of these thoughts and feelings and figure out what is best for us.
Hey, I'm an AMAB nonbinary person, and while I'd like to lean very slightly feminine to get assumed as such, I ultimately would like to express in a very neutral way? And I also feel I might like to have breasts, but it doesn't feel like it's coming from a place of "feminine expression", but rather, just cus they'd feel good for me. And when contemplating them, I don't see them as being "feminine" on myself; I'd like them to just be there, underneath my neutral presentation, not being hidden but not really being noticed; just being part of who I am and feeling nice.
So for me as they'd be on my person, they are indeed a neutrally-gendered thing. While as I mentioned I'd like to sprinkle a very slight bias towards being read as "feminine" into my expression, I'd find being overly feminine to be just as dysphoria-inducing as being overly masculine, so if they were inherently "feminine", I don't think they'd be something I could see myself as having. My identity is very solidly "in between and neither in particular".
So, I'm just coming from the "other direction" to say that yeah, I totally agree with them being not a gendered thing, as I would like them as part of my neutral expression, rather than in any way for some kind of "femininity"!
I find my c chest/pecs very androgynous n experience 0 dysphoria w it :) I do however experience debilitating bottom dysphoria! It’s rare I find ppl similar to me I’m so glad you mentioned it!
Oh my god I have a similar experience! I pack all the time but I don't need to bind 24/7. I usually just do it in public for safety reasons
C cup is like medium/large tits
I'm kind of the same but opposite because I'm AMAB. But I need my chest to grow out. I very much do my best to present both masculine and feminine, and I honestly don't care how people gender me so long as they don't do it maliciously. Man or woman they're both the same to me as far as how I see myself.
the healing power that this video has,,,,,,,,,, unprecedented
i've recently started binding and have had a similar sort of thought process to what you talked through in this vid, i'm just a few steps behind lmao (trying to alleviate dysphoria by binding and later feeling dysphoric because it looks like i'm trying to appear fully masculine is not a fun time but maybe (hopefully!!) things will be slightly different now)
thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with this!!!!! i totally agree that the idea of an androgynous chest is pretty validating and i'm so glad i stumbled across your channel :))
This definitely changed my perspective, I had never considered something like this at all. I am dfab & nonbinary and I want my chest to be flat or like, super tiny regardless of my presentation but, it's going to be a long time before I can get top surgery and in the interim I think thinking about it this way will help me cope with dysphoria a bit better ?
🤯 Yoooooo you just blew my whole mind!!! I’ve got effing G cups on a small body and want top surgery so bad, but despite being on multiple top surgery pages I’ve never heard of radical reductions! I’m enby and despite wanting a flatter chest it just feels so extreme to go from G to flat. I’ve always said that I’d have been so happy to have A’s/B’s that I could just bind when I was feeling it. I’m about to google this wildly; thank you SO MUCH. 🙏🏻😭❤️🙌🏻
Check out the group "Non-Binary Top Surgery" on facebook! There are plenty of folks there who share their radical reduction journey and results
That group is currently closed :(
Closed is the privacy setting, you should be able to click Join and answer the group questions to get queued up for confirmation
I’m seeing now that on my browser you can no longer click a join button on the main page, but after clicking on the banner I was able to find the button on another page! Thank you!
I loved this video! :D thank you for the self acceptance i needed this today
Interestingly enough, I’ve always considered a flat chest as being nebulous, while any sort of perceivable breasts were feminine to me. My logic was that while people of any sex can naturally have a flat chest (or appear that way), it’s mostly DFAB peeps that naturally have breasts.
This video has made me realize that I still need to work on disconnecting my associations of gender with physical appearance and sex.
Even though being transfem, I really want breasts :(
Very interesting video. It's a bit funny that we have both had a bit of a revelation over the last week. I viewed my facial hair as masculine and so when I came out one of the first things I did was get rid of the facial hair. However I do not like my appearance without it. But my brain had this set that facial hair was masculine and that androgynous or feminine would mean no facial hair. However I've recently met several trans fem people who actually love their facial hair and so it broke the binary idea in my mind. I began to realize that if my coming out was an effort to be who I was and be comfortable with myself then my appearance was going to be a huge part of that, and so I've decided to grow the facial hair back. Also being genderfluid there are days that I want to appear as more masculine and days that I want to appear as more feminine and I have no problem doing that in other ways that my facial hair doesn't really affect.
My own feelings on chest tissue is that it can be androgynous, I mean I'm a larger AMAB so I have plenty of chest tissue in the form of fat, I've never seen it as masculine or feminine, it's just there. I know it's not the same as someone who is AFAB, with the tissue itself being different, but I have no problem seeing it as androgynous if the person is comfortable with it. That tends to be what I look for myself in people is are they comfortable with who they are, and if they are then why change that? And truth be told my grandmother could grow facial hair way faster than I will ever be able to and yet that didn't change the fact that she was very much a proud woman. Many of our ideas about gender are going to change in the future and this conversation itself might one day seem near barbarous considering how far we've come already.
Anyway, another fantastic video, it's always good to check out your videos and see things from another's perspective. One of the best channels on TH-cam, hands down!
YES! This is something that I have been coming to terms with myself, but from a different perspective. I have all my life thought my chest was wrong (I'm AFAB NB, for reference) because it was too small to be feminine enough, but it turns out that was because no one taught me how to put a bra on right. All along, I had been having chest dysphoria about not being large enough.
Now I am glad about my chest being the size it is because I am able to switch between masculine and feminine presentation if I want to. I always thought maybe I just had a man's chest with one of those conditions that makes them grow a bit of breast tissue, but after I found that I could also make my chest also look feminine, I have come to believe that I do have an androgynous chest and it makes me happy. Someone else in the comments mentioned that this might be gender fluid and while I resonate with that some, I do still prefer the label NB because I don't want to put myself in a smaller box.
I had top surgery that used a pedicle nipple technique, this left a little bit more tissue than if I'd had nipple grafts. This worked well for me, I wanted that nipple technique a lot and the slight amount of extra tissue leaves me at like a double A? But it could also just be viewed as pecs, I know plenty of cis men who have a similar amount of tissue as I do. It is wonderfully androgynous. Because of this I feel that my chest can sway femme or masc depending on how I present other things; maybe I'm a buff dude, maybe I'm a petite woman.
Also, the surgeon I saw has done "nonbinary top surgeries" before. Basically this meant he's done surgeries where the nipple placement is more traditionally feminine, or leaves more breast tissue.
I recently became more educated about pedicle-sparing techniques! It seems really cool, though I wonder exactly how much material has to be left in place. I'm sure it depends on how big your chest is, and thus how long the nerve is that's being preserved
@@MusingMoss - yeah, it depends on the size of the chest initially. I never took testosterone, which also impacts due to fat distribution. But I went from a D to a double A with that technique, so honestly it doesn't seem like much needs to be left. The surgeon did say some of his binary male patients prefer the grafts so they can be even flatter, but reminded me that cis men do still have some tissue there. But the technique was great, I had feeling back in one nipple the day after and was clear of potential nipple loss within a couple of days.
I feel like chest size is highly contextual to the rest of one's body. If you are thin then chest tissue is usually read as female. if you are fat then it is less noticable, and if you are muscular then "the bump" can pass as pec muscles.
I love hearing your thoughts processes. This whole journey for me has not only gotten me more excepting of myself, it has made me less judgmental of others and their choices. Thank you.
i'm amab and i had a lot of dysphoria about my chest before starting HRT. After about a year of hrt i realized i didn't really want to go more femme and was much happier being androgynous. I went off hormones at that point, but a lot of the fat redistribution stuck around and i now have a cups. i sometimes get self conscious about my chest being a bit bouncy when i'm presenting masc, and dysphoric about them not having developed fully (like wondering if they just look like 'man boobs'). over time tho as i've gotten more used to them, i've started to really like them and view my chest as androgynous. especially since i'm still working through some fear issues around presenting more femme in public, i find them very reassuring lol. thanks for exploring this topic!
amab genderqueer here, I have a related experience. I'm overweight and I've had 'moobs' since I was like 10 or 11. I also looked like an adult lesbian for most of my adolescence. I have wide hips, narrow shoulders, and a big butt and I was often mistaken as a girl. All of this caused me a lot of social anxiety at the time. But as got further into my 20s and began expanding my sexuality and discovering my fem side, I began to really like my boobs, at least in the right context, while being subby or fem. Now at 32, they are very large and feminine for an amab, I've become increasingly enamored with them and the idea of being fem and masc simultaneously in general. So much that I'm weighing hormones and body mods to make myself more enby. (not that I can afford it) Yet I still have the hang ups about my tiddies while in public situations. I can understand the urge to bind them to fit an ideal, only in my instance it would be to closet my enbiness from the ignorant masses. Being fat, poor, and in Florida seriously limits my options to do so though, so I just tolerate being an anxious mess with a 20 inch purple ponytail in public. Looking like comic book guy. If I was in the PNW where I belong, I would probably be rocking galaxy print tights, cleavage, nails, and a fucking glitter beard ftw. But I totally get this androgynous breast thing now. I've warmed up to it after seeing a lot of chubby boys and enby amabs on the internet (even some afab boys) and strongly identifying with this sort of male femininity. Softboy for lyfe
Hello from the future~ Thank you so much for making this video! The coronavirus has given us all a great deal of time with the self and as an enby bb, this was the first time I found myself thinking more internally about top surgery and radical reduction; the perspective you've delved into was the soundboard that I needed to confirm that dysphoria wasn't driving me to a point of inaccuracy with myself and my real, untainted feelings about my body in relation to my gender (societal ideologies are so messy). But thank you again for the wonderful content \m/
Your videos are always an education to me, thank you for the work you put into each and every one of them
I haven't watched the video yet but I'd like to inform everyone that I thought the thumbnail said Anarcho-tiddy and uhm... yes I agree
after being on T for several months my chest has started to look more androgynous in my eyes, which is nice. I think I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to size where it's very easy to hide or show. although 9 times out of 10 I'd like to have a flat chest, and I feel that getting top surgery would be the best option for me. I try to think about it the other way around and if I already had a flat chest that would be comfortable almost all the time. I think it's a matter of what you want to have more often, if that makes sense. anyways that's my take, and you talking about your experience did give me some things to think about.
I'm non-binary genderfluid (ish) born male, I've recently been trying a similar method of thought about my chest area when I'm feeling more ambiguous or more feminine, viewing it as flat tiddies. uuuuunfortunately this hasn't been working for me and intermittent dysphoria is still very much a thing, but while it hasn't worked for me, I do think that this way of thinking has a lot of merits and could definitely work for some
There you go again making me think about things. I really like this video. Figuring out my gender has been such a struggle for me. I have a lot of social dysphoria that I don't know how to deal with since I don't have strong body dysphoria. I haven't been able to figure out what kind of medical transitions might be right for me because of this. This gives me an interesting new perspective to think about. I agree with the thought process that a smaller, more easily hidden chest would make sense for androgyny. That makes me feel better about my own chest as well.
I feel like I know exactly what an “androgynous” chest is, it’s like the size in early puberty, when I didn’t feel like my body was femininely sexualized, before that one day someone at the skate park said that I had big boobs. before that first comment, before my breasts were so big that it effected athletic behavior. Right before that comment that meant I had to pay more attention to what kinda of tops and support I wore and mindful of the activity because that was going to set perceptions
I’d felt kind of fat for like 5 days that week, then someone said I had big boobs; and I think it was that. The boob “bigness” was why I’d felt fat.
This comment reads like gibbery-jabber, but my not-constant body dysmorphia is probably related to internalized sexism, specifically: objectification and an apparently constant onslaught of perception of “sexy/not sexy”
I come to this video whenever I need to alleviate my chest dysphoria/make myself feel valid
I'm Genderfluid, and whenever I feel masculine my Chest bothers me and gives me dysphoria, to the point that I didn't go swimming all summer because of it. I'd just wish that I had some way to bind while swimming, but that'd probably never work :( If that wouldn't be a Problem, I'd be happy just calling my Chest Androgynous.
i herd there is actuly watrerproof binders to swim in but there a bit expensive but may be worth it. i have issues with swimming too mostly cuse i cant nust take my shirt off like a normal guy or im afraid people will notice even tho im pretty small.
Maybe try using a sports bra to swim in.
If you have $$ check out shapeshifters, they make GORGEOUS swimming binders. You can also just swim with a regular binder if it's not too tight, just don't take it into a pool without washing it by hand after. You can also do the sports bra/shirt combo, or sports bra/rash guard if it's not too dysphoric
there's also FLAVNT which makes swimsuit binders!
@Kaijuwo thank you for the tips! funnily enough, I did buy myself both a g2b binder and some transtape just this Autumn lol
I honestly think it's all about mindset, which relates a lot to what you got from genetics. If people tell you ll your life that chest bumps are feminine, you might start to dislike or feel weird about your "feminine" chest as you realize your gender identity. This, in turn, means that no matter the size, it's possible to be uncomfortable and/or dysphoric about a chest that's larger or smaller than what most people have.
For example, I'm a non-binary person who is biologically female and have an A cup. I don't bind, but I do have days where I get very uncomfortable with my chest and will spend extra time picking clothes that cover it better. I even wore a jacket for a full year, in CALIFORNIA, even during physical education. I don't aim to even go trying binders, however, because it usually doesn't bother me much, and I can still wear loose shirts, v-necks, regular bras, etc., without compromising. The fact is that, in most circumstances, I'm not in a part of the gender expression spectrum where chest visibility triggers dysphoria. I do recognize that most people who are NB and/or trans with the same biological sex still bind even with a chest my size, or go to extra lengths to cover it with clothing layers, which is why I can see where you're coming from. I feel pretty androgynous, or at least gender non-conforming, with my chest and the way it's presented in clothing.
I felt the jacket thing on another level
Wow. you helped me with this video. Thank you. I love the idea of thinking of my chest as androgynous... really helps. It helped me feel less dysphoric.
I think if this perspective on your own body makes you more comfortable and content, yet let's you present as your mood takes you, then it is a great thing.
I find your voice so damn soothing, if you read books/essays/poetry oh my, heavenly. 😉
Whatever makes you happy, knowing yourself is a huge process & being able to play in both genders I find freeing. Your story is only yours as it should be. 🤓😏
Appreciate this as I'm figuring things out... 💜 Being included on your journey, parasocially! I also found the (intense, lots of CW...) novel Freshwater by Akwaeke Emezi helpful around this, towards the end.
The pain of me having a large chest and not wanting to be perceived as a girl
Heyyy ... five years behind with this all but learning it now...
As a trans femme this concept actually helped me deal better with my own top dysphoria and small chest
It’s hard to see yourself as non-binary when as you mentioned, a ton of aspects about the body are coded to a certain gender
But this does help in thinking about how those aspects of myself can be used in a variety of ways
A cis person here greats you all wonderful people! Love deep dive critical thinking stuff. Thank you Luxander for the video. It made me think of the way I see my chest and if I'd ever consider reduction or even surgery if I had a bigger chest. I think of myself what society would consider to be a very feminine person. Yet, it's been 4 years I bind or try to hide my chest. It started when I came to terms with my asexuality. I never liked drawing attention to it because society sexualizes it too much and when I bind it makes me feel safer just like wearing an armor. All this also made me wonder if one of the reasons a trans person chooses to bind or would consider a surgery is that they do not want to be sexualizes for something they do not feel like they should be sexualizes if this makes sense.
Hmm. Interesting as always, not something I ever thought about.
As for the OK day, well check my FB for that news heh.
As someone who is biologically “female” and non-binary, I bind and literally stay up at night in distress about my chest and it is extremely surprising like you said that people who don’t already have smaller chest tissue would want it. Bc I already have it and I just don’t know, some days I’m like this is what makes me, me and other days I’m just like if they fell off i wouldn’t be mad. Idk the thought of an androgynous chest makes me kinda happy Bc maybe I’ll be able to one day like myself fully or be completely certain on removal. 💝
Love your channel 💜
Really enjoy your vids, your provocative, thoughtful, careful (to be as inclusive as possible) presentations. This one is especially interesting, as it took me on a quick remembrance of my entire life, all 67+ years of it ... the times I've wished I was male, the times I've wished I was a "better" female, the times I've wished I'd been born a certifiable hermaphrodyte, and my life long confusion about the subject of gender which, generally, is not confusing for a majority of people. Funny thing, though, as you were talking, from within my own context of "what is male/what is female", I suddenly found myself thinking about the song "I Enjoy Being a Girl". I had to know ... the gender of the writer. Turns out there were two writers (lyrics vs. melody, I'm sure), both men, Rodgers and Hammerstein (for the musical "Flower Drum Song"). Quote from the song: "I'm strictly a female female ..."; only a male of any sexuality, could have written those words.
Thanks for this film! It makes me feel much better about my body! :)
You’re the best fam
Omg, so many feelings around this. How did you know i needed this?? lol I have a small, and UNEVEN chest, and I've been trying to suss out my feelings about it for awhile now. I like, and dislike, its perceived femininity, but it can be versatile, or an embodiment of the contradictions, or just 'hey, it's my chest, I'm non-binary, so this is a nonbinary chest.' YES
when i think of andro chests i think of very small chests (like jude karda or richi moetrons) or chests with lots of hair or muscle underneath (like ty turner)
ive never thought about it that way and idk maby it help lessen the dysphoria till i can be at a place were i can do something about it
Thank you for this!!
huzzah for the education. and also for the interesting discussion.
and, I saw those finger guns 😜
When I was in college I went out sometimes without anything at all. It was before I questioned my gender for the second time (the first one I questioned if I was a trans man, and realized I wasn't). I just hated bras, how they felt, how they couldn't make my chest not bounce. So I decided not to wear them and it was liberating. I still lived with my parents and weren't at all accepting so I had to wear them again. But then I decided I'd wear sports bras. They were better but not enough. When I realized I'm non binary, I desperately searched for a binder and it felt, again, sooooo liberating. But nowadays I feel that they constrict my breathing way too much. They are beginning to feel almost as uncomfortable as bras. The difference is the way they look. I like so much how they make my chest look. One other issue is that my chest is too big, so I have to also use baggy clothes, but I really love them, so that's okay.
Anyway, where I'm going with this is: I think I want to have a reduction, when I can. Because it might allow me to not bind and still feel socially comfortable. I've met lesbian cis girls who had extremely small chest and just didn't wear anything. With baggy clothes I think I could feel even better than today. But I need to see a therapist about all of my questioning my gender, that's the hard part to get right now
I get what the person was saying personally. My chest is way too big to adequately bind. I would love an extreme reduction so that as far as my expression is concerned, I could present more femme or masc leaning on diff days
I've thought about this too, and I'd say your conclusion is way better than mine... because my dumb brain just went "maybe just having one boob would be androgynous?" but like... yeah nevermind. I'm also nonbinary. As for myself, however, I'd feel the most comfortable having large boobs but for them to be very hairy. I had top surgery but regret that and now looking into getting implants. So, as I'm totally flat with no chance at re-growth, how big I can actually go with implants is kinda limited. Skin stretches... but only to a certain point. I'll probably not be able to go bigger than C-cups, but that's alright if so. If I think they're too small by then, I can always wear a padded push-up bra, or go for bigger implants at a later point. As for the hair, I was on testosterone in my past and actually got a fair bit of chest hair, which I am very fond of.
When I think of my body, I don't really think of that I want every part of it to be androgynous. It's more like I strive for a goal of androgyny in totality, if that makes sense. Like for example, when I present with boobs (breast forms, which I always wear) and a beard, I come across as androgynous in total, because beards are coded masculine and breasts are coded feminine. So me having both of those traits at once, confuses people whether I am a man with boobs, or a woman with a beard, as both options are hard to comprehend for the cis. The conclusion, however, is that most people read me as a man with boobs, which feels strange... because I'm afab! But I also really quite like it, that although I'm not quite as androgynous as I'd wish, passing as "ambiguously male" actually feels quite good for me. Especially because then I can be super feminine in my style, and that only adds to my androgyny!
But when it comes to my chest, I want for it to be mainly feminine. Then I like it that my face is masculine, my hips/body shape feminine, my voice masculine, my genitals feminine, and my body hair situation masculine. So my body is more like a mosaic of feminine parts varied with masculine parts, which together becomes a total sum of androgyny. So I'd say my hairy chest + boobs on it would be androgynous together with the rest of me, but on its own it would be (mostly) feminine. I love being a mosaic of fem and masc traits like that. I find gender euphoria in that! If only I could get my chest filled out soon enough.
This is just about exactly how I feel about myself with a few differences.
I'm also afab non-binary and can bind myself pretty flat (I'm a 32C so there's not too much there). Unfortunately, I experience a lot of discomfort from it. I can do it for the work day but by the end my chest is aching a bit and I can't do it multiple days in a row without it hurting. It also affects my ability to run on the days I bind so I have to plan it around my running days. Even tighter sports bras cause me discomfort in my ribs and anything that covers well enough tends to start digging into my armpits. So I want top surgery in order to not have to wear any sort of chest wrangler anymore. I also have difficulty looking at my chest in a mirror even with a binder. I just want to be flat without the pain
I hate it when I am late to these, because I want the convo and back and forth with these amazing humans who are part of your notification squad. ;) Health stuff is a bitch; my brain is trying to smash itself. Sometimes I have to take meds and lie down or I die and stuff. So when I am not here smashing out pleonastic tomes on the keyboard, it isn't because I don't adore you and these convos.
"I understand that the way that I feel about my body is not 100% rational...."
That may be my next tattoo, Lux. ;)
It is interesting to think about all this right now - my bestie is here from France for a month, and she is very small chested and has struggled with feeling feminine and attractive to cishet dudes (how the fuck did I get a straight bestie?) We were just last night talking about how breasts are so much the archetypical FEMALE characteristic - so if people see you with a bump, they are going to assume you to be a binary woman. It isn't right, but humans want simple basic easy answers....hence the pushback against anything which challenges binary gender norms in the first place.
Interesting that the same societal bullshit can harm us all.
I'd love to be able to see my chest as androgynous, however I'm meant to move onto a 30D cup, which I utterly despise (and feels really tight), so I usually wear 32C, which still doesn't fit whatsoever. This means I end up with DySpHoRiA.
I'm just a kid and have no access to binding as am closeted enby. Being closeted means I have to wear "women's" clothes, which doesn't cover up my chest at all (and feels horrible).
The concept of an androgynous chest seems so amazing to me... But I don't feel that way and am still longing for top surgery every day. Social dysphoria is far more overwhelming than my body dysphoria, which is then adding to my chest dysphoria, as people view it as feminine/female.
My gender identity evolves everyday but rn I'm feeling quite trans-masculine, so exposing my shape everyday makes me feel horrible, as it is so feminine. If I was "a woman" I would have the perfect body (thigh gap, hourglass figure etc.) But I don't want those things.
My close friends are trying to help me pick a new name from the closet, and have determined I need a softboi name. If anyone has any suggestions, (I like Alexander/Xander (family name), Ellis and Hayden rn) I'd love to hear them.
Thank you for coming to my tedtalk.
I agree with the previous reply, a sports bra is definitely important. While bras with cups will generally aim to push breast tissue upwards, sports bras usually push it inwards. Trust me, I’m in the same boat and the type of bra I wear makes a world of difference.
There’s also the style of clothing to think about. Bomber jackets and non-stretchy denim are usually pretty good at disguising curves. Baggy sweatshirts could go either way. And imo certain fashion styles tend more towards androgyny or masculinity (like grunge, skater, punk, etc). Experiment a bit, and see if you can find clothes you like yourself in.
r/abrathatfits
Forget sports bras, get a *well fitting* minimizing bra.
@CJ I currently wear a sports bra with a vest top folded in half on top as it helps me 'try' to bind.
@@jequirity1 ^^
thank you very much for your video. it made me feel better
I have a size-A cup size, as far as I can work out, I was assigned a boy at birth, I am British, though not as pro-Brexit as I once was, I identify as a mixture of transgender and non-binary, I love and identify with Females❤ I feel Feminine❤ Lol from Petra
I imagine it can being really hard to love your own body, when gender perception from society is pushed on you and that's just not the way you are. At the end of the day the only opinion that matters about your body is your own and what ever feels best for you is the way to go.
even as an amab transfeminine enby who's on HRT for about 10 months, based on the experience you described on this video, I'd guess our chests are pretty much alike at this point. just lask week I went to the pharmacy with an industrial half-face mask with n100 filters and a faceshield (call me paranoid, but my boyfriend has diabetes and my sister rhinosinusitis) dressed in "male" jeans and a large shirt with just a small sports bra I stole from my sister as a binder, the lady behind the balcony was filling my prescriptions when she looked at me and said M… *looks down at my chest* Mr.? Lander? (yes, my birth given name which I also am not sure how I feel about either haha). and I just nodded 'cause I was not about to have a gender discussion with a respiratory mask people can barely understand me through and also because I mostly - even more now - try to dress more "masculine" for the sake of cisplaying and my safety (you know, Brazil, highest transgender murder rate, etc.) but from that moment on I was like SUPER concious of my chest, crossing my hands in front of my torso, hunching and so forth. so yeah I'm pretty sure I could describe it as an "androgynous" chest by now if I don't actually bind and/or wear ultra large shirts. the part our experiences differ, I suppose - please do correct me if you feel differently - is that even though I've always been that kid who hated being shirtless, sometimes even at home, these days I wouldn't even as much as consider passing through a window without a shirt on. and I've already had pretty much all the medical paper work to apply for a surgery to "correct" "gynecomastia", but the more months this pandemic drags itself and postpone the day of my surgery the more I've thought over and over about how to aproach who will probably be a cishet male surgeon with the words "so… I've never really had a flat, flat chest [which is true, since volleyball gave me some pecks lol]… what kind of procedure/intervetion you think would be best to not completely remove all the tissue there…?" and I expect resistence but if they as so much say something along the lines "well, with this procedure we won't be able to remove that much tissue…" I already know I'll jump at it like a lioness does to a deer's throat (sorry for the violent metaphor)! because I've realized even though I've always told myself I wanted absolutely everything from HRT BUT the breast development, even at this point while I'd just like to "push" them back a little, I'm not dysphoric about them at all… I'm just not capable of dealing with the fear of my parents noticing (besides all the other changes) when they come to town, or people shamelessly staring at them to try to find answers in their cisgendered brains on the streets (where my anxiety peaks) and I can't ever picture myself doing something so frivolous as going to the pool or to the beach before the surgery anymore… maybe the way I put it makes people think I'm being forced to do this surgery. but that's not how I feel either. I certainly do recognize the privilege it is to be fearlessly topless basically anywhere (though this was never the case for me, particularly), but mostly I'm finding exausting to make sure I always have a binder - and a shirt that covers it - everytime someone knocks at the door, or spending too much time picking the right clothes to hide behind, both the tiddies and the the more modest changes (curves and stuff) whenever I have to walk out into the world. it's like "society imposed dysphoria" (am I even making any sense? lol). so yes. I do think I need this surgery. do I want an absolutely "masculinized" flat chest? hell no. also, sometimes their development scares me to the point of suddenly stop taking my estrogen pills, and I really, REALLY can't wait to keep letting the other changes come without that fear in the back of my mind and on the front of my body.
This is tricky, because very small breasted women can still have super feminine bodies.
Best of luck+k with your studies❤ Petra
Yes. Both men and women have breasts. They aren't a uniquely female trait. There are no uniquely male or female traits! Anything a man has a woman can have (or vice verse). Anything. Beards/moustaches, body hair, big feet/hands, small hands/feet, hairlessness, petite body, "masculine" body, "feminine" voice, "masculine" voice, etcetera. People with androgen insensitivity syndrome prove a woman can have testis or that a man can have a v_gina. I could go on but that should suffice to prove my point: there are no uniquely male or female traits.
I watched a video recently about an intersex person who identified as female and was born without sex organs. While I'm jealous (I don't want any of these trash organs!), I found it interesting that she is read as female despite her body not producing sex hormones (the video didn't say if she took hormones or not). She had chest tissue as well. It really makes me wonder if an adult body that was never exposed to any sex hormones would be of completely ambiguous gender or if they would look more female to someone with a binary mindset. Maybe what society sees as feminine *is* the true neutral? After all, as I understand it all fetuses are female until they are exposed to testosterone. I'm agender and I still have a lot of dysphoria about my lower body (I've had top surgery) so trying to see things like this makes me feel better when I'm constantly getting misgendered.
Edit: I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings about calling reproductive organs "trash organs." This is only reflective of my feelings about my organs specifically. I know a lot of people want them. I just don't.
As an enbie who was born male, my chest causes me the majority of my dysphoria.
I've been working towards an androgynous chest and I understand how it's hard to conceptualize, but it's something to work towards that allows me to feel some control.
I think my answer is having a muscular wide base, but a certain amount of fat so that it's still soft to the touch and not hard and masculine.
Frankly, I think it's much easier to achieve this sort of ideal with the body you have than what I was born with.
Building muscle isnt that hard, but doing that while maintaining volume and softness is a really hard balancing act.
As one more thing, it's your chest, so its non-binary, just like you are. I 100% get behind that point.
Finally, maybe I spend too much time at the gym but men totally have chest bumps too. That's not exclusively feminine. Its more the shape that codes male/female. So honestly you in a binder is probably far more relatable to a man who lifts than exclusively a woman.
Also, some men just have big ol tiddys independent of exercise.
Thanks for this perspective
Is it weird that I still feel super masc even when I have size DD breasts? Like somehow I want to be able to be shirtless this way, but I've always been self-conscious about my breasts, but I still like having them too. Good for some dresses and stuff. I hope that more enby peeps get more recognition though. I still think that there should be a sex and gender marker, or just be eliminated entirely.
To me my breasts are only bags of flesh, no more, no less. I don't care for top surgery, nor would I mind very much if they were gone. I definitely do not associate them with anything feminine.
What angers me and/or makes me sad though is that everyone else around me seems to think they're an expression of my "feminity" and the dysphoria that causes.. I could do without 😵
Love you Lux
This is kind of sidelong to the top surgery part of the subject, but you can definitely have an androgynous chest by the definition of androgyny, even with a bare chest. A lot of female body builders do (which isn’t to say that they can’t be very feminine women, I want to be clear), as do a lot of overweight males (same disclaimer). If you have muscular pecs and a small amount of chest tissue that just makes your nipples slightly more protruding, that is aspects of traditionally masculine and traditionally feminine. Similarly, if you have enough body fat to have breasts, but they’re proportionally smaller than the rest of your body compare to most women, that’s also aspects of feminine and masculine
Made the examples cis just for simplicity. When there's more of a comfort zone ambiguity involved, there's of course a combination of clothing and other presentation involved as well/instead
Coming from an AMAB perspective I get feedback that I have something going on but idk, I would take money that people wouldn't notice my shirt being off. I've always had some growth in the pec area that wasn't muscle. No one cared? Maybe I should check again...
These are rounder and flopper than I remember. Maybe I am girl afterall. Lets check the mirror.
Ok, no. Those are angled, separated. Clearly mostly muscle. No mother would chastise me for ruining their child by not wearing a shirt.
I would say that yes, Androgynous chests can exist.
Thank you again for a great insight into the variations of disphoria and gender identity. I understand and identity many more of the changes in mood that mean some days I'm less uncomfortable in my body than others. Most of which I have not been able to properly connect to myself until recently. I move between being very much closer to wanting to fully identity as female to times I am comfortable in my body and accepting that I in a male body and that's it.
Theoretical question. I am sorry if it might come across stupid or something. Is it possible at all to be totally comfortable in your body if you are non-binary and not having any social gender disphoria, where you don't want to change anything at all (face, voice, chest etc)?
My body is non binary. I have photos in twitter and instagram. Ig: Carlikuka Twitter: @Carli_kuka
Ah cis woman have all sizes and shapes of breast. My sister and cousin is very flat chested. They are cis straight feminine woman. Neither of them feels less feminine or less of a woman.
I am cis female androgynous woman. I have larger breast and don't down play them because they are part of my body type. It doesn't not change how I dress or my androgynous. Androgynous is a equal female and Male elements. Which we determine how we choose to make that balance.
There are women who get breast reduction for pain discomfort.
Then there are cis men who have "man boobs) some are even thin men have this.
Breast size isn't directly relate to female or male.
I’m late but I’m the 666th like :-))
I’ve been having a lot of chest dysphoria lately bros, pray 4 me
Need to know topics
5:20
You look attractive Moss❤ Petra
100th LIKE!
When people say "androgynous" do they mean "ambiguous"?
The dictionary will describe androgyny as having aspects usually attributed to both genders. This can be often be read as ambiguous gender, and thus the word is often used to mean ambiguous or "could be read as either".
Sometimes, yes. Other times, no. Depends on the person and sometimes the day.
Hi friend