You think the narrator might'mph sh'dd sh'''mthing or maybe he's gomngjsdfgj in his mouth. In either case, he probmmghgg something about... The Scary Door.
@@KnowTrentTimoy : So is emotionalism Trent. Can't tell you how many times you could see Sarek bristle a bit. I think the point is that Vulcans on the whole suppress these traits... due to their mental commitments and devotion to the Vulcan way that originated with Surak. It doesn't mean that they don't have them deep down inside. I think Leonard played Spock perfectly in this scene! ☞ upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Surak3.jpg
I'm not even sure this guy is the guardian. No shortage of space time manipulating nigh omnipotent beings in Star Trek. I'm waiting for Kevin Uxbridge to show up. He seems like the kind of person to destroy all dilithium, everywhere. We have no law to fit his crime.
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." -Litany against Fear, Dune
TOS has no CGI, no high tech videography, just a well made set, and it works beautifully. Aside from the fact that TNG isn’t dealing with the same entity, it’s still fetching. I like both and for different reasons.
@@Bootmahoy88 TOS was still one of the most expensive tv shows to produce at that time. The issue with producing sci-fi or fantasy on any level has always been that you have to create and fabricate things that don’t exist. You just can’t go to the army surplus store and get Starfleet uniforms. Someone has to design them, and then someone else has to source the material and mend and tailor them. It’s not easy.
Remember when people bashed TOS for cheap special effects? Door, chair, fake paper, and a Watson costume.... That to be cheaper than building the portal and lighting it.
I remembe reading Harlan Ellison's book on "City" and the mess that developed around it. It was never his intention that the Guardian be shaped like giant a vagina. Nor did he approve of the Greco-Roman pieces either.
@Projekt Kobra , although they were supposed to be in 1930s New York City, they were the Mayberry set from "The Andy Griffith show". At one point, Kirk and Edith Keeler pass Floyd's Barber Shop.
He reminds me of the ascended version of Anubis in the coffee shop in Stargate SG1. FYI: The Guardian of Forever also appears in Star Trek: Of Gods and Men.
Budget cuts? Its lazy, Season 1 ToS was 1/8th the budget that STD costs per episode. The Guardian of Forever literally looks like a cardboard cutout your telling me Kurtzman could only afford a Door?
Captain Kwirk: Where's the rest of the ship's crew? Mr. Spuck: Not in the budget. Captain Kwirk: I... wonder if Squatty... survived the "Budget Cuts"? From Star Warp'd: The Fandom Menace (The ONLY Fandom Menace in my opinion).
Nothing quite like explorers who are hostile at finding the unknown. "What the HELL is this" and mean face "give me a straight answer" versus taking readings, asking intelligent questions, and discussing among themselves.
@@radioflyer68911 #1, Phillipa is an asshole... #2 Michael thought that the GOF was the only way to save Phillipa, which is why we see her being an asshole. Trust me, it’s happened before... Janeway does the asshole thing to save Seven, in the end it doesn’t even work anyway, and they have to take the part from Icheb. I can’t remember what the part is called, but a character being an asshole to save another character is nothing new.
@@brianfeuerman1732 Well I never liked Janeway or Voyager either. You've got a fallacious argument anyways, just because Star Trek has occasionally had poorly written scenes/characters in the past does not justify poor quality in the future.
@@augustday9483 lmao the cringe! The lengths to which discovery haters will go to construct reasons to hate it out of literally nothing is so damn embarrassing. As if these two have come as "Explorers." They are literally there for one single reason and that's to save her life. The Guardian is essentially toying and tormenting them under the most dire of circumstances and you're going to call them showing frustration and desperation an example of them being poorly written?! Good lord just go take an nap lmao.
I think that's the only time other time it's explicitly appeared in show. Not sure if this is it or just a powerful being. Space seems to be full of those.
TOS: Mystic, cool voice, interesting. TNG: Interesting, not quite as cool (been awhile since I've seen that episode), more physical form. STD: Unnecessarily Cryptic, tried to be humuourous and cryptic at t he same time, copying what came before but not in a cool way (any coolness is overshadowed by the history of STD and their habit of copying other shows). My opinion: If you're gonna pull out the rememberberries/nostalgia/callback/retcon, better make sure your show isn't a pile of garbage and it is done in a clever and interesting way.
@@moe83. I was thinking Q as well... but maybe they are all Q. unlike the Q from TNG, the other Q dont seem to get involved just for fun. maybe some just wait and see what mortals do with power, like the guardian of forever? This one seems to make itself known, but wait to see if they would show up. wonder if there were any eps with the Q continuum that showed them reading a paper? edit: Didnt Q send Picard back in time to prevent himself from getting stabbed in the heart, avoiding the need to get a bionic heart? All to teach him that he needed to be that reckless in order to BE the captain? kind of parallel to this?
You do know the TNG episode was not about the Guardian of Forever, they never featured it in TNG. In the novels, the Guardian was created by the Q, before they ascended into godhood/higher plane, so it makes sense that it has snark, bad puns, and ultimately a well-meaning desire to help others, even if it's an ass about it. To me, the Q, especially de Lancie, are like older siblings, who throw their ability and capabilities at the younger races, but they are well meaning in most part, trying to improve younger races through trials and self-examination (Sort of like a Trekkian version of Vorlons/Shadows from Babylon 5). Everything Q has done so far in the shows were to teach lessons, especially introducing the Borg early enough with real stakes for Picard/crew to face them.
Discovery had the chance to fully realize Harlan Ellison’s vision of the Guardian of Forever. In the original script it was supposed to be an elaborate desolate complex (hence the name of the episode “City On The Edge of Forever”).
As the TOS Guardian of Forever wasn't even capable of understanding what it put Kirk through, it couldn't have had a sense of humor. This is obviously a Guardian Mark II.
Actually, Star Dispatch is a newspaper that has been used all throughout entertainment history. You'll see it show up in lots of movies and tv shows. Same logo, same font, etc.
'Our audience will get confused if a rock starts talking in this sci-fi show. Get an old guy and a chair. Um, give him a cigar so it's quirky and stylish instead of a cop-out!'
@@MichaelSHartman Meh, the Guardian of Forever was one of the last major Technological creations of an ancient alien species, probably the Q. I expect it to be able to take corporeal form.
With Lost it was more: wait to see what the audience says is going on, doing anything BUT that no matter how improbable or requiring ludicrous amounts of time travel/dimension hopping/flash forwards/secret societies/psychic powers/body switching/duplicate twins/reincarnation/shape-shifting imaginary ghost people/etc. for the plot to make any sense, realise after a couple of seasons they'd effectively painted themselves into a corner creatively with the monumental tangled mess of plot lines and sequential surprise plot twists that prevented any reasonable possibility of the show having a neat all-encompassing ending explaining everything after the first season, just keep going adding more layers of whimsical metaphysical plot threads for the entirety of the rest of the show's run in the hope the audience would be too busy trying to make sense of the deluge of new revelations each episode & figuring out how they could even remotely logically fit in with the other story lines rather than notice the ongoing self-perpetuating narrative train-wreak of the overall story as a whole, finally end with all the characters hanging out in a Church. But that aside and going back to your original point - the STD writers are a bunch of cheap mystery-box abusing hacks, yes.
@@jimh5491 That's one way of pointing out how absurd LOST was. I just like to say "THEY WERE DEAD THE ENTIRE TIME. THEY NEVER SURVIVED THE PLANE CRASH!".
If nothing else, this presentation had great scenes linked together, Discovery notwithstanding. Always good to see old friends. Very entertaining and thought provoking. Major Grin, you are in my core group of Star Trek channels, for whatever it’s worth. Thanks for the great content!
@@2bituser569 He may have been a guardian of that particular planet's past civilization but he wasn't The Guardian of Forever. That was a different planet and a different civilization. If it was the same it would have given off the same temporal energy that was detected by the Enterprise in ST:TOS and would have been recognized by the Enterprise-D computer! It wasn't recognized because it was something different !! The original GOF didn't use avatars. It was just a sentient gate not a humanoid avatar !
That is not the guardian of forever they’re not even on the same planet. I mean it’s true I guess the guardian could manifest itself wherever and whenever it wanted, but I doubt if it would manifest itself in such a way. it would be like us deciding to ditch walking upright, and go back to crawling on all fours wherever we went.
Amazingly you were right on the money, it is the Guardian of Forever. Apparently after the temporal wars when people tried to use him, he hid himself on a planet far away from where he was discovered by the Enterprise Crew.
Except, of course, the fact that he is literally the *Guardian* of Forever, not a simple door that has to hide. And would a "temporal" war even have a beginning and end? The writing is atrocious.
@@Idazmi7 You misunderstand what he is. He is the Guardian of Forever in the same sense that your door is the guardian of your room. Yeah sure it looks nice and all to keep someone out, but if someone really wanted in your room, do you think a door is gonna be much of a deterrent? Its the same with the Guardian of Forever. He's a sentient portal who doesn't want to be used anymore, so its not atrocious writing that he hid. And yeah, a temporal war would have a beginning and end. Its just not in chronological order.
@@adrianvine7653 I'm not misunderstanding anything. When the Enterprise first encountered it, they flew through time-shifting waves that actually shook the ship and tossed it out of sync with normal time. See, the Guardian of Forever itself claims to exist in all of time and history, having neither beginning nor end, nor _location_ in any traditional sense. It is able to both observe and affect time on a galactic scale, at _least._ It is *_not_* just a door.
@@Idazmi7 Whatever your first paragraph is meant to explain, it went right over my head, so I'm sorry if that was meant to explain something I'm going to talk about. And it does have a physical location, like any sentient being. And, yeah, it is a just a door. A very fancy door that exists across all of space and time and loves time travel and stuff, but it is still a door to anywhere you want to go. And, like any sentient being, it doesn't like being used and abused so it moved away.
@@adrianvine7653 _"Whatever your first paragraph is meant to explain, it went right over my head, so I'm sorry if that was meant to explain something I'm going to talk about."_ Which is exactly why you aren't qualified to be discussing the Guardian of Forever in any way, shape or form. Long story short, *it can change the flow of time without anyone entering it's door. FROM LIGHTYEARS AWAY.*
The way that fellow was talking about the door, I thought Mel Brooks wrote the dialogue, but then I remembered that Mel Brooks was alot more intelligent than these writers !
You are standing on a snowy field. In the distance a door and a man sitting on a lounge chair is smoking a cigar and reading the newspaper. There is a white mailbox to your right. Sorry, I thought I was playing Zork.
Everything Kurtzman does is trashing the past. The exception is Lower Decks, which appears at first to be trashing Star Trek but actually treats Star Trek canon with reverence and respect. I suspect that Kurtzman wasn't interested in directing an animated series, so he didn't pay close attention. By now he may have caught on. We'll see what season 2 is like.
@@ashlynnp.9609 At this point I don't care, too many insults to my intelligence and my fandom to waste time with show. I am following along third hand to watch the various jj abrams series to collapse on themselves.
@@martinrobert6709 Then you’re completely missing out. People complain about everything and apparently you’re no different. It’s a good show. Riker’s Beard is constant in Star Trek. Every first season to every Trek show sucks and it’s the same here.
Good lord... this is why so many people hate Discovery. Comparing the beautiful, well-composed, intelligent writing of TOS with the empty, dumbed-down, clumsy mutterings of Discovery, you can see the problem---greater production values and effects mean nothing if your writing is on par with what a 12 year old would spit out.
There's a great quote by Data in an alternate future novel (I think by Peter David) where Riker is trying to save Deanna by using the Guardian, and he says, "I would strangle Deanna Troi with my bare hands, if it meant saving the timeline." Needless to say, Data does not do that, and when Riker saves Deanna, the Guardian pulls them back to the correct time and says, "All is as it is supposed to be", meaning Troi was never meant to die in the first place.
I disagree. When CGI can fill an entire Roman Colosseum with people, flashy FX distract from, not add to the story. In this case, rather than going all out, duplicating something from 60 years ago, they chose ... simplicity
Ehh.... no, the special effects from 60 years ago still look like campy high school theater crap. No amount of nostalgia is going to fix that. The story made it possible for us to ignore it is all. And this portal isn't even substantially different than the original, it's just another kind of doorway with nothing behind it tied to some optical compositing. Oh, there's snow behind it instead of some spare Greco-Roman and rock props from who knows what other show. Oh, there's a door in the doorjamb instead of it being an empty ring. Oh, it doesn't have disco lights. Big deal. It's still basically the same thing. It's just that "Adam West's Batman" doesn't work as a visual style in 2020. Tastes change. That's just part of life. In fact I'll bet real money that if I went back in time and swapped the two sets, you'd prefer the door with the guy.
@@ErickC The “new” guardian looks more like cheap high school crap. Oh look, we’ve got a doorway, and not a special doorway that would actually require effort to make, we’ve got a standard doorway that was probably lying around the prop room. And oh you didn’t bother animating it or anything, you just put a person next to it to provide the lines, like you couldn’t even be bothered with a microphone. About the only thing that looks modern about it is the snow, and that’s a standard CG effect.
@@cathygrandstaff1957 : and yet if I went back 60 years and swapped the fancy talking door frame in the original Star Trek with this whole door, complete with doorman, you'd be saying the exact opposite. Literally the only reason you don't like it is because it's different from what it was in the original show. Well, the aesthetics of the original show don't work in 2020. The problem with you Trekkies is that while Star Trek tried to teach us all to be more open-minded in the face of an ever-changing future, you're so narrow-minded and stuck in the past that you can't accept that tastes change and that what looked contemporary in 1966 or 1987 isn't going to work in 2020. You're just as bad as Star Wars fans. You're like a toddler who has to have his grilled cheese sandwich cut just so or he'll throw a temper tantrum. Well, I hate to break it to you, but: NOBODY FUCKING CARES! Have fun rotting in the dirty diaper that constitutes the blinders that nostalgia has put on you. The rest of the world is going to move on while you sit here bitching on TH-cam and stewing in your own brine.
@@ValentinaOak Whoever wrote this had a very vague idea of how the various Doctors dressed and were probably advised by their legal team to avoid copying any one Doctor too closely. Between the BBC and the estate of Harlan Ellison,This episode probably had more lawyers working on it than actual writers
Assuming that it is "the" Guardian of Forever, (or "a" Guardian of Forever) it seems to operate differently (the Guardian was a replay of "history" which allowed timed entry into history). This one was a direct jump point to a specific time in "history" ... technically Georgiou's history which spans universes but is still technically "her" past and thus her "history."
Whilst it's true, we can't expect such things to remain as they are forever, as we hear the Gaurdian say, they're in hiding following the temporal wars, so it's probable something else happened
First rule of Star Trek... don't think so linearly. But seriously, a being like this would look at the timeline as though it were merely a line "already" drawn on the paper rather than as a line "being" drawn.
What was the name of the actor in The Discovery sequence she was showing them the portal? I know who he is who he is very well but I can't think of his name.
I’m not sure they can use the Guardian of Forever officially. “City on the Edge of Forever” was written by Harlan Ellison, who complained for 4 decades about the changes Gene Roddenberry made to the story. It’s possible the changes with “Carl” are intentionally vague as to whether it is or isn’t a Guardian in order to sidestep any complaints from Ellison’s estate.
Good comparison. Proof again TOS was better in characters, storyline, script and even special effects. Decades to improve and everything is worse, shallower, flatter, 2 dimensional, nothing to draw you in
Ok here’s my prediction for what’s gonna happen - georgiou is gonna spare michael, so that the empire doesn’t fall apart, and Michael is going to be the one who puts Spock on the enterprise/in starfleet or whatever and of course he ends up being the one who destroys the empire. Now I wouldn’t be surprised if Michael herself ends up being the real reason the empire is destroyed, and Spock is just a side character, but...come on right. That makes sense - there’s no universe where she isn’t pivotal in.
@@airrider-jk9ik I haven't and don't plan to watch Discovery. I'm just going by the title of the video. Is presume he/ she would have expertise on the subject.
@@billtree52 they do not, it was never stated in the show it was the guardian of forever, it was just stated to be a being on a planet with some kind of power, you sjould watch discovery because its actually nothing like these videos say it to be, lots of the clips are out of context and dont give the full scene or simply dont understand basic things
@@airrider-jk9ik all that aside I'm not paying for CBS All Access. I've heard enough about it from plenty of other sources to know that I will probably not enjoy it. I wish them luck though.
@@billtree52 its on netflix, if you have it, give discovery a chance, when it first got announced i was cautiously optimistic as a trekkie, but i was so glad to be proven wrong when it released. It perfectly captures the trek feel while bringing something new to it, the same it does with the roddenberry message
@Tim Hands no but the guardian was a sentient machine and basically a talking portal this is a being and it’s in the gamma quadrant so definitely not the same thing, is anything it’s more likely a Q or seeing it’s the gamma quadrant a wormhole alien
I don't. They tied all three things together with the simple newspaper prop. The Guardians in the original story were several giant men that moved as if standing still. The portal was a device, not The Guardians. That was changed in the last rewrite because the set department goofed up the planet city set directions. The Klingon time temple used references from Ellison's WGA first draft script. I don't think the series is brilliant or most of the acting very good, but I think the writers are paying attention to a lot of things the pop kid fans have missed, and they are changing things based on current SF style.
@@STho205 I didn't say he was wrong. He's probably right. I'm just saying that the writers didn't put anywhere near the consideration into their horrible, horrible scripts that he put into this video.
@@The_Persiflager I haven't seen this one, except his clips, but that TNG episode referenced was hokey, badly acted and dull. Not as bad as the planet of Nigerian stereotypes that wanted to buy or steal a blonde actress, but pretty bad. Ellison's script was brilliant, but it was lessened by the "Tomorrow is Yesterday" episode coming first, which was a simplistic comedy storyline. The brilliance of Ellison's story was, unlike the Butterfly Effect he borrowed from *there never was a paradox* . The opposite of butterfly effect stories, which the viewers in 67 may have read or seen in other series. Kirk had always visited 1932 and ALWAYS caused Edith's death. The Guardian had to send him back right then and there, because the Guardian knows time's shape. That was reinforced by the epilogue in Assignment Earth. I would like to see City done as originally written. I hoped Tarantino would remake that, as he is edgy enough to do Pulp Trek which is what City was before the rewrite. However I'm glad they did the rewrite in 66/67. I don't think I could have taken the original story as a kid.
@@HAGZ0483 Thanks to Peter David and other material, I consider Trelane one of the Q. Also, tbf, aside from a little bit in Lower Decks, we've not seen a Q in years.
Watching S3E10 of ST Discovery. "I AM THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER" .... Fans will know it is from Season 1, episode 28 Star Trek original. I recognized it as soon as I heard it and decided to do a youtube to see if anyone else did the same thing. I have seen that episode maybe two other times since I saw the original in April 1967. Can't believe it was so recognizable to me after first hearing it almost 54 years ago. Made me watch again "City on the Edge of Forever"...Lots of good stuff in that episode!!
@@theborgqueen6891 I did. Season 1 and 2 and the first episode of S3, then I gave up on the hope of it ever improving. Discovery just have horrible writing.
I skipped the previous few episodes, and found this episode "mostly" enjoyable minus the bad acting at the very end. Also how does an alternate timeline consistently have the same crews on starships? Also the plastic paddle sword at the end. 2:50 - I really want a parody of this where the dude strikes the "non-dodger" and splits his head and the people in the back are like "WTF why didn't he dodge?"
We have to assume that something compels the MU to mimic the prime universe for some reason. Call it "temporal entanglement" or something and call it a day.
@@FortoFight I like to call it the Central Finite Curve (IE the finite number of infinite possibilities that are largely identical to where you started, with relatively minor divergences bere and there). Thanks Rick/Harmon for your way with words.
@@BertoxolusThePuzzled In R&M, every possible universe exists so some are bound to be similar. What I'm implying is that something links the Prime and Mirror universes in a way that forces them to be similar.
@@geliefdeliefde2339 I thought so, you're saying that continuity is broken. The problem with that is that you're assuming that 1) it actually is the past and 2) that the timeline can't be changed.
@@geliefdeliefde2339 It's not necessarily actually the past, in the sense that it's not necessarily "real". And even if it is actually the past, it could be possible for her to change the timeline? Or do you also give the same criticism to Voyager's finale?
There was an article in the newspaper "Carl" held up mentioning the Tkon Empire being threatened by a supernova... it's possible that the Discovery writers are alluding to the TNG portal being another instance of The Guardian of Forever.
In my head cannon the Guardian is where the Stargate and Star Trek universes meet. Consider the similarity in construction materials, function and imprecise control methods between the portal and the Quantum Mirror
I love Spock's flinch of indignation when the Guardian says "Your science is primative"! :D
its definitely hilarious
he’s sooo offended 😂
I do like that the guardian was a sass master from the get go...
"You're standing in a room, but it's outside and snowing, a man stands in front of you sat next to... The Scary Door"
Michael Burnham: “Why should I believe you? _You're Hitler!”_
#this
Poor Michael, cursed by his own hubris.
You think the narrator might'mph sh'dd sh'''mthing or maybe he's gomngjsdfgj in his mouth. In either case, he probmmghgg something about... The Scary Door.
Now I think "The Twilight Zone" came into the Trek universe...lol
Haha, Spocks reaction to the Guardian dissing him is still priceless. 😂😂😂
He's half-human, after all...acting a little perturbed is to be expected.
Vulcans do have emotions
Having an Ego is a human trait. Vulcan's (even a well trained half Vulcan) should know better then to react in that manner.
@@KnowTrentTimoy : So is emotionalism Trent. Can't tell you how many times you could see Sarek bristle a bit. I think the point is that Vulcans on the whole suppress these traits... due to their mental commitments and devotion to the Vulcan way that originated with Surak. It doesn't mean that they don't have them deep down inside. I think Leonard played Spock perfectly in this scene!
☞ upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Surak3.jpg
@@KnowTrentTimoy : Also, how is it that you know better what is appropriate for a Vulcan than Leonard Nimoy?
TNG is not a Guardian of Forever. He is from the Tkon Empire. Guardian of Forever was never mentioned.
The newspaper in Disco has an article about the Tkon empire. They may be trying to connect them.
@@johnh7727 but the back of the same newspaper also had an advertisement for Edith Keeler's Twenty-First Street Mission, "Let me help!"
@@johnh7727 Which would be a decent connection I guess to the possible origin of the Guardian, but man do I dislike its origin explained.
HOW DARE THEY TRY TO CONNECT THINGS!!!!!!! SJWS!!!!!
I'm not even sure this guy is the guardian. No shortage of space time manipulating nigh omnipotent beings in Star Trek. I'm waiting for Kevin Uxbridge to show up. He seems like the kind of person to destroy all dilithium, everywhere. We have no law to fit his crime.
still love Spock's reaction to the guardian calling him primitive
I took his reaction as, “He is right!”
@@dangeary2134 MORE LIKE AFFIRMATION
Yeah, that face says it all. "I'm doing my best, there's no need to be nasty about it."
3:14 "Fear is the mindkiller!"
"Wait, wrong franchise." :)
"You are facing fate with composure."
"Actually, I'm shitting my pants."
😂😂😂
[points] Those people are that way. You can't see them because of the intervening dunes.
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." -Litany against Fear, Dune
This shows why the original series is still the best, it had class.
LETS GET THE HELLLLL OUTA HERE
Totally agree, the reimagined portal is weakly presented. This was such a well written TOS episode and the rest are unworthy
@@mgymghBORING! Too much TALK! Blah blah old white guys!
I like all the versions. Because each one belongs to each series.
The original series had actual, competent, writers.
TOS has no CGI, no high tech videography, just a well made set, and it works beautifully. Aside from the fact that TNG isn’t dealing with the same entity, it’s still fetching. I like both and for different reasons.
I believe TNG was included in the video due to being similar.
In one TOS book, the Portal is heavily guarded by the Federation.
@@Bootmahoy88 TOS was still one of the most expensive tv shows to produce at that time. The issue with producing sci-fi or fantasy on any level has always been that you have to create and fabricate things that don’t exist. You just can’t go to the army surplus store and get Starfleet uniforms. Someone has to design them, and then someone else has to source the material and mend and tailor them. It’s not easy.
As a native Upstate New Yorker I’m happy to see Adirondack chairs survive until the 31st century
Southern Ontarian here. I'm glad to see Muskoka chairs surviving past the 31 st century.
And bowler hats came back in vogue, and so did smoking cigars.
The avatar with the newspaper reminds me of Anubis the Ascended from Stargate SG-1. :D
THIS!! You win the nerdverse today
Thought it was going to be like Mr. Wickwire from The Twilight Zone
I was thinking the same!
He looks like a cop I saw on Law and Order once...
@@danagiles5100 same actor played Ascended Anubis - George Dzundza and a good choice
Remember when people bashed TOS for cheap special effects? Door, chair, fake paper, and a Watson costume.... That to be cheaper than building the portal and lighting it.
@Projekt Kobra lol yeah I get it in old.
And going on location someplace snowing.
I remembe reading Harlan Ellison's book on "City" and the mess that developed around it. It was never his intention that the Guardian be shaped like giant a vagina. Nor did he approve of the Greco-Roman pieces either.
@Projekt Kobra , although they were supposed to be in 1930s New York City, they were the Mayberry set from "The Andy Griffith show". At one point, Kirk and Edith Keeler pass Floyd's Barber Shop.
@@jmcenanly1
I didn't know that. Nice to still learn something new about that show. Thanks
He reminds me of the ascended version of Anubis in the coffee shop in Stargate SG1.
FYI: The Guardian of Forever also appears in Star Trek: Of Gods and Men.
Kurtzman: Budget cuts. Bring me a door and a chair...
Budget cuts? Its lazy, Season 1 ToS was 1/8th the budget that STD costs per episode. The Guardian of Forever literally looks like a cardboard cutout your telling me Kurtzman could only afford a Door?
It's very "Doctor Who".
@@JavierLopez-nw8kb He really wanted to make that “A-door-able” pun.
@@JavierLopez-nw8kb 1/8th? More like TOS had about $300 per episode, duct tape not included
Captain Kwirk: Where's the rest of the ship's crew?
Mr. Spuck: Not in the budget.
Captain Kwirk: I... wonder if Squatty... survived the "Budget Cuts"?
From Star Warp'd: The Fandom Menace (The ONLY Fandom Menace in my opinion).
Nothing quite like explorers who are hostile at finding the unknown. "What the HELL is this" and mean face "give me a straight answer" versus taking readings, asking intelligent questions, and discussing among themselves.
Dicax That's exactly what I was thinking. These aren't intrepid explorers, these are assholes in space.
@@radioflyer68911 #1, Phillipa is an asshole... #2 Michael thought that the GOF was the only way to save Phillipa, which is why we see her being an asshole. Trust me, it’s happened before... Janeway does the asshole thing to save Seven, in the end it doesn’t even work anyway, and they have to take the part from Icheb. I can’t remember what the part is called, but a character being an asshole to save another character is nothing new.
@@brianfeuerman1732
Well I never liked Janeway or Voyager either. You've got a fallacious argument anyways, just because Star Trek has occasionally had poorly written scenes/characters in the past does not justify poor quality in the future.
@@augustday9483 lmao the cringe! The lengths to which discovery haters will go to construct reasons to hate it out of literally nothing is so damn embarrassing. As if these two have come as "Explorers." They are literally there for one single reason and that's to save her life. The Guardian is essentially toying and tormenting them under the most dire of circumstances and you're going to call them showing frustration and desperation an example of them being poorly written?! Good lord just go take an nap lmao.
The Guardian of Forever was also in the Star Trek TAS episode Yesteryear
What's TAS?
@@JoeMama-sy8cg 'The Animated Series'
@@Jarumo76 I see
If you can still find it on DVD, check it out. It has several episodes that continued TOS storylines.
I think that's the only time other time it's explicitly appeared in show. Not sure if this is it or just a powerful being. Space seems to be full of those.
Interesting thing. He is Carl, the doorman. The TV show "Rhoda" had a character named "Carlton, the doorman".
And the guy who played that role was the guy who wrote the theme song to the Mary Tyler Moore show. His name was Lorenzo Music I think.
@@coolal19 Yep. You have the right name. I can’t remember if he wrote the MTM theme or not, though.
@@coolal19 He was also the guy who voiced Peter Venkman and Garfield, not to be confused with Bill Murray.
He was a writer and producer of the show, but he didn’t write the MTM theme song..
@@dupersuper1938 Now that you mention it, their voices sound really similar (Murray and Garfield)
TOS: Mystic, cool voice, interesting.
TNG: Interesting, not quite as cool (been awhile since I've seen that episode), more physical form.
STD: Unnecessarily Cryptic, tried to be humuourous and cryptic at t he same time, copying what came before but not in a cool way (any coolness is overshadowed by the history of STD and their habit of copying other shows).
My opinion: If you're gonna pull out the rememberberries/nostalgia/callback/retcon, better make sure your show isn't a pile of garbage and it is done in a clever and interesting way.
Carl from discovery is not the guardian of forever, he's more akin to being like Q or trelane
@@airrider-jk9ik I thought he was a kind of Q, but boring episode anyway jajaj
@@moe83. the episode wasnt boring
@@moe83. I was thinking Q as well... but maybe they are all Q. unlike the Q from TNG, the other Q dont seem to get involved just for fun. maybe some just wait and see what mortals do with power, like the guardian of forever? This one seems to make itself known, but wait to see if they would show up. wonder if there were any eps with the Q continuum that showed them reading a paper?
edit:
Didnt Q send Picard back in time to prevent himself from getting stabbed in the heart, avoiding the need to get a bionic heart? All to teach him that he needed to be that reckless in order to BE the captain? kind of parallel to this?
You do know the TNG episode was not about the Guardian of Forever, they never featured it in TNG.
In the novels, the Guardian was created by the Q, before they ascended into godhood/higher plane, so it makes sense that it has snark, bad puns, and ultimately a well-meaning desire to help others, even if it's an ass about it. To me, the Q, especially de Lancie, are like older siblings, who throw their ability and capabilities at the younger races, but they are well meaning in most part, trying to improve younger races through trials and self-examination (Sort of like a Trekkian version of Vorlons/Shadows from Babylon 5). Everything Q has done so far in the shows were to teach lessons, especially introducing the Borg early enough with real stakes for Picard/crew to face them.
0:40 Emotional damage accent)
Discovery had the chance to fully realize Harlan Ellison’s vision of the Guardian of Forever. In the original script it was supposed to be an elaborate desolate complex (hence the name of the episode “City On The Edge of Forever”).
Ellison wrote "Guardian"? Didn't know that, good man.
The Star Dispatch - now that's a legit easter egg
As the TOS Guardian of Forever wasn't even capable of understanding what it put Kirk through, it couldn't have had a sense of humor. This is obviously a Guardian Mark II.
@@johnsavard7583 he gained a sense of humor thanks to Kirk.
Easter eggs are not enough to keep a show going. And that's all this show has to run on.
@@compmanio36 it has allot of women crying and queers, and easter eggs.
Actually, Star Dispatch is a newspaper that has been used all throughout entertainment history. You'll see it show up in lots of movies and tv shows. Same logo, same font, etc.
'Our audience will get confused if a rock starts talking in this sci-fi show. Get an old guy and a chair. Um, give him a cigar so it's quirky and stylish instead of a cop-out!'
Given the last two years of confusion that I have seen in the youth, and country, it might have been prudent.
@@MichaelSHartman Meh, the Guardian of Forever was one of the last major Technological creations of an ancient alien species, probably the Q. I expect it to be able to take corporeal form.
"And the guys who aren't our audience are never going to watch the big reveal of the door reforming itself into the portal later on."
They’re not telling, they’re playing THAT game, like Lost, wait to see what the audience says is going on, do that.
So they are not leading, they are following.
With Lost it was more: wait to see what the audience says is going on, doing anything BUT that no matter how improbable or requiring ludicrous amounts of time travel/dimension hopping/flash forwards/secret societies/psychic powers/body switching/duplicate twins/reincarnation/shape-shifting imaginary ghost people/etc. for the plot to make any sense, realise after a couple of seasons they'd effectively painted themselves into a corner creatively with the monumental tangled mess of plot lines and sequential surprise plot twists that prevented any reasonable possibility of the show having a neat all-encompassing ending explaining everything after the first season, just keep going adding more layers of whimsical metaphysical plot threads for the entirety of the rest of the show's run in the hope the audience would be too busy trying to make sense of the deluge of new revelations each episode & figuring out how they could even remotely logically fit in with the other story lines rather than notice the ongoing self-perpetuating narrative train-wreak of the overall story as a whole, finally end with all the characters hanging out in a Church.
But that aside and going back to your original point - the STD writers are a bunch of cheap mystery-box abusing hacks, yes.
@@jimh5491 That's one way of pointing out how absurd LOST was.
I just like to say "THEY WERE DEAD THE ENTIRE TIME. THEY NEVER SURVIVED THE PLANE CRASH!".
@@James_Bee "IT WAS ALL JUST A DREAM, ZOOM OUT TO REVEAL THE ISLAND INSIDE A GIANT SNOWGLOBE, ROLL CREDITS - THE END!"
I remember. Lost was such a con job.
Harlan Ellison is spinning faster in his grave than that spore drive.
I think he's still spending his time yelling at Roddenberry.
@@gedias1 Or suing James Cameron from beyond the grave.
Pretty sure the final version of that episode was given a re-write by D.C. Fontana, though.
@@BioGoji-zm5ph It was almost completely changed from Ellison's version, which made him eternally hate Roddenberry.
@@gedias1 Well, until the changed version won the Hugo. I've read the original version; it was unfilmable.
So NBC turned down The Cage in 1965 and CBS green lights Discovery in 2020...
Pretty much. Hollywood was always full of brainlets.
@@bravo0105 Different set of circumstances.
“Your science knowledge is obviously primitive”
Spock: And I took that personally.
If nothing else, this presentation had great scenes linked together, Discovery notwithstanding. Always good to see old friends. Very entertaining and thought provoking. Major Grin, you are in my core group of Star Trek channels, for whatever it’s worth. Thanks for the great content!
Sloppy. The TNG examples had NO relation to the "guardian" theme of the other two
The tng dude was a guardian too
@@2bituser569 He may have been a guardian of that particular planet's past civilization but he wasn't The Guardian of Forever. That was a different planet and a different civilization. If it was the same it would have given off the same temporal energy that was detected by the Enterprise in ST:TOS and would have been recognized by the Enterprise-D computer! It wasn't recognized because it was something different !! The original GOF didn't use avatars. It was just a sentient gate not a humanoid avatar !
@@2bituser569 Without looking it up, I believe he was called "Portal" by Riker at the very end. (yes. credited as Darryl Henriques - Portal")
I like how affronted real-Spock was when schooled on his primitive knowledge (1:24).
That new guardian felt like something out of Doctor Who, and not in a good way.
That is what I thought too, exactly!
That is not the guardian of forever they’re not even on the same planet. I mean it’s true I guess the guardian could manifest itself wherever and whenever it wanted, but I doubt if it would manifest itself in such a way. it would be like us deciding to ditch walking upright, and go back to crawling on all fours wherever we went.
A small show, written by small minds, imitating the work of giants.
Vulcans rn seeing the Guardian portal be like: Illogical! Illogical!
They do embody humans understanding of creation.
It was created by the Q after all, so what do you expect?
"The answer follows the question. It's dangerous if it goes the other way."
So, the gameshow Jeopardy is dangerous?
This show manages not only to suck - but to reach back into time and make you feel pain for the original Trek you loved and cherished.
Yes, it does. And I say that as a millennial. I hate my generation, honestly.
Amazingly you were right on the money, it is the Guardian of Forever.
Apparently after the temporal wars when people tried to use him, he hid himself on a planet far away from where he was discovered by the Enterprise Crew.
Except, of course, the fact that he is literally the *Guardian* of Forever, not a simple door that has to hide. And would a "temporal" war even have a beginning and end? The writing is atrocious.
@@Idazmi7 You misunderstand what he is. He is the Guardian of Forever in the same sense that your door is the guardian of your room. Yeah sure it looks nice and all to keep someone out, but if someone really wanted in your room, do you think a door is gonna be much of a deterrent? Its the same with the Guardian of Forever. He's a sentient portal who doesn't want to be used anymore, so its not atrocious writing that he hid. And yeah, a temporal war would have a beginning and end. Its just not in chronological order.
@@adrianvine7653
I'm not misunderstanding anything. When the Enterprise first encountered it, they flew through time-shifting waves that actually shook the ship and tossed it out of sync with normal time.
See, the Guardian of Forever itself claims to exist in all of time and history, having neither beginning nor end, nor _location_ in any traditional sense. It is able to both observe and affect time on a galactic scale, at _least._ It is *_not_* just a door.
@@Idazmi7 Whatever your first paragraph is meant to explain, it went right over my head, so I'm sorry if that was meant to explain something I'm going to talk about. And it does have a physical location, like any sentient being. And, yeah, it is a just a door. A very fancy door that exists across all of space and time and loves time travel and stuff, but it is still a door to anywhere you want to go. And, like any sentient being, it doesn't like being used and abused so it moved away.
@@adrianvine7653
_"Whatever your first paragraph is meant to explain, it went right over my head, so I'm sorry if that was meant to explain something I'm going to talk about."_
Which is exactly why you aren't qualified to be discussing the Guardian of Forever in any way, shape or form. Long story short, *it can change the flow of time without anyone entering it's door. FROM LIGHTYEARS AWAY.*
Someone, please close this aDOORable Star Trek chapter and restart it.(and lockup Kurtzman behind this wretched door)
Why would the shut down a good star trek show
@@airrider-jk9ik you’d need a good Star Trek show to answer that question.
@@cookingwithjesus we already have 3 currently running, discovery, picard and lower decks, so yeah, 3 good shows to answer that question
@@airrider-jk9ik Lower Decks is a definite maybe, the rest should be hauled off as garbage.
@@jimh472 nah, cause theyre all good
At least Kirk and Spock were smart enough to beam down next to the gateway, instead of walking for hours.
A metal door in a snowy area?
"WELCOME TO THE HIMALAYAS! Snow cone?"
The way that fellow was talking about the door, I thought Mel Brooks wrote the dialogue, but then I remembered that Mel Brooks was alot more intelligent than these writers !
Starballs: Ladies with Schwartz
You are standing on a snowy field. In the distance a door and a man sitting on a lounge chair is smoking a cigar and reading the newspaper. There is a white mailbox to your right. Sorry, I thought I was playing Zork.
Right. Or the original adventure. meselectronics.net/advent/ (something I picked up). :)
Forgot to include the Guardian episode from Star Trek the animated series!
The Animated Series is truer to canon than STD. More fun to watch too. Lucius was fun, and we got Captain Robert April!
They took something grand and mysterious and turned it into second rate comedy scene.
And that's STD for you. I know, it itches a lot and causes some discomfort, like all STDs.
Everything Kurtzman does is trashing the past. The exception is Lower Decks, which appears at first to be trashing Star Trek but actually treats Star Trek canon with reverence and respect. I suspect that Kurtzman wasn't interested in directing an animated series, so he didn't pay close attention. By now he may have caught on. We'll see what season 2 is like.
Holy shit stop fucking screeching. Like you guys complain about a bad story but don't realize that the reveal happens AT THE END.
@@ashlynnp.9609 At this point I don't care, too many insults to my intelligence and my fandom to waste time with show. I am following along third hand to watch the various jj abrams series to collapse on themselves.
@@martinrobert6709
Then you’re completely missing out. People complain about everything and apparently you’re no different. It’s a good show. Riker’s Beard is constant in Star Trek. Every first season to every Trek show sucks and it’s the same here.
There was no Guardian of Forever. They weren't even on the same planet.
Well the race that made them could have put them all over the galaxy and there could be more advanced versions.
was that a reference to that phrase Riker's actor flubbed over and over? "It wasn't him. It was never him. It was his assistant."?
I had it in my mind there were several guardians but I can’t remember where I heard it
well the newspaper kind of confirms without question this is a or a variant of the guardian of forever.
@@nerys71 true dat
Good lord... this is why so many people hate Discovery. Comparing the beautiful, well-composed, intelligent writing of TOS with the empty, dumbed-down, clumsy mutterings of Discovery, you can see the problem---greater production values and effects mean nothing if your writing is on par with what a 12 year old would spit out.
Exactly. It's just sad.
There's a great quote by Data in an alternate future novel (I think by Peter David) where Riker is trying to save Deanna by using the Guardian, and he says, "I would strangle Deanna Troi with my bare hands, if it meant saving the timeline." Needless to say, Data does not do that, and when Riker saves Deanna, the Guardian pulls them back to the correct time and says, "All is as it is supposed to be", meaning Troi was never meant to die in the first place.
When special effects from 60 years ago are better than now.
I disagree. When CGI can fill an entire Roman Colosseum with people, flashy FX distract from, not add to the story. In this case, rather than going all out, duplicating something from 60 years ago, they chose ... simplicity
@@jkcarroll You misspelled "cheapness" ;p
Ehh.... no, the special effects from 60 years ago still look like campy high school theater crap. No amount of nostalgia is going to fix that. The story made it possible for us to ignore it is all.
And this portal isn't even substantially different than the original, it's just another kind of doorway with nothing behind it tied to some optical compositing. Oh, there's snow behind it instead of some spare Greco-Roman and rock props from who knows what other show. Oh, there's a door in the doorjamb instead of it being an empty ring. Oh, it doesn't have disco lights. Big deal. It's still basically the same thing.
It's just that "Adam West's Batman" doesn't work as a visual style in 2020. Tastes change. That's just part of life.
In fact I'll bet real money that if I went back in time and swapped the two sets, you'd prefer the door with the guy.
@@ErickC The “new” guardian looks more like cheap high school crap. Oh look, we’ve got a doorway, and not a special doorway that would actually require effort to make, we’ve got a standard doorway that was probably lying around the prop room. And oh you didn’t bother animating it or anything, you just put a person next to it to provide the lines, like you couldn’t even be bothered with a microphone. About the only thing that looks modern about it is the snow, and that’s a standard CG effect.
@@cathygrandstaff1957 : and yet if I went back 60 years and swapped the fancy talking door frame in the original Star Trek with this whole door, complete with doorman, you'd be saying the exact opposite. Literally the only reason you don't like it is because it's different from what it was in the original show. Well, the aesthetics of the original show don't work in 2020.
The problem with you Trekkies is that while Star Trek tried to teach us all to be more open-minded in the face of an ever-changing future, you're so narrow-minded and stuck in the past that you can't accept that tastes change and that what looked contemporary in 1966 or 1987 isn't going to work in 2020. You're just as bad as Star Wars fans. You're like a toddler who has to have his grilled cheese sandwich cut just so or he'll throw a temper tantrum. Well, I hate to break it to you, but:
NOBODY FUCKING CARES!
Have fun rotting in the dirty diaper that constitutes the blinders that nostalgia has put on you. The rest of the world is going to move on while you sit here bitching on TH-cam and stewing in your own brine.
This was a brilliant continuation to this being. Well done.
TOS has that Victorian feel to it while still showing the future. No cgi, just great looking sets and superb acting.
Please add the one where the door decapitates Michael, preferably recursively through all dimensions, since Phillipa botched that.
I could feel the power of the Guardian in the original Star Trek and its complexity.
In the Discovery episode. It was more a joke and unbelievable .
Exactly. This is bad Trek here. You might find this interesting.
th-cam.com/video/E51h3wdZY00/w-d-xo.html
Just like Discovery and Picard itself.
Can you upload a clip of the Riker speech?
How sad, Doctor Who in that Universe is squandering his retirement trying to help a Plank Of Wood and a Stiff .
I can't tell if you're sarcastic or not but Paul Guilfoyle never played the role of The Doctor.
@@ValentinaOak Whoever wrote this had a very vague idea of how the various Doctors dressed and were probably advised by their legal team to avoid copying any one Doctor too closely. Between the BBC and the estate of Harlan Ellison,This episode probably had more lawyers working on it than actual writers
@@ValentinaOak Surname looks like (it sounds like) The Doctor’s home planet.
I just love his outfit so much. That tweed coat is awesome
Assuming that it is "the" Guardian of Forever, (or "a" Guardian of Forever) it seems to operate differently (the Guardian was a replay of "history" which allowed timed entry into history). This one was a direct jump point to a specific time in "history" ... technically Georgiou's history which spans universes but is still technically "her" past and thus her "history."
Whilst it's true, we can't expect such things to remain as they are forever, as we hear the Gaurdian say, they're in hiding following the temporal wars, so it's probable something else happened
The guardian was always a spacetime gateway. A door to everywhere, everywhen. Georgiou's first jump was the guardians test of her character.
First rule of Star Trek... don't think so linearly. But seriously, a being like this would look at the timeline as though it were merely a line "already" drawn on the paper rather than as a line "being" drawn.
Discovery: "What the hell is this"
Door: "Didn't you hear? they cut the budget"
Going to have to update this video now after part 2.
I must've missed something in the Discovery episode. Where does the idea come from that it is the same GoFE as in TOS ?
They used the same voice as TOS for the guardian, and the guardian is reading the same news paper as was shown in the City on the Edge of Tomorrow.
He says so.
Sonuequa's method of "acting" seems to be made up of long pauses to emphasise what she's saying.
What was the name of the actor in The Discovery sequence she was showing them the portal? I know who he is who he is very well but I can't think of his name.
You mean Paul Guilfoyle? Personally, I know him from his role as Capt. Jim Brass in CSI.
@@shdon: Absolurely. I do too. That was great.
Anubis is a Q
I do find it funny this was dumbed down in STD.
I understood that, I get the reference.
Anubis is on Stargate.
Well, that ending shot is some nightmare fuel...
Um... TNG never had the Guardian of Forever. That's not even the same planet.
This is true.
But the Guardian of Forever does appear in The Animated Series.
I’m not sure they can use the Guardian of Forever officially. “City on the Edge of Forever” was written by Harlan Ellison, who complained for 4 decades about the changes Gene Roddenberry made to the story. It’s possible the changes with “Carl” are intentionally vague as to whether it is or isn’t a Guardian in order to sidestep any complaints from Ellison’s estate.
There's literally nothing at all to connect it to the Guardian.
@@salaciousBastard Name of the paper in the guys hand. Bad Easter egg, smells like sulfur.
Good comparison. Proof again TOS was better in characters, storyline, script and even special effects. Decades to improve and everything is worse, shallower, flatter, 2 dimensional, nothing to draw you in
I still think it is Anubis.
Ok here’s my prediction for what’s gonna happen - georgiou is gonna spare michael, so that the empire doesn’t fall apart, and Michael is going to be the one who puts Spock on the enterprise/in starfleet or whatever and of course he ends up being the one who destroys the empire.
Now I wouldn’t be surprised if Michael herself ends up being the real reason the empire is destroyed, and Spock is just a side character, but...come on right. That makes sense - there’s no universe where she isn’t pivotal in.
lmao imagine actually watching STD
If STD were Christmas, it’s tagline would be "Michael is the reason for the season".
The last outpost was not a Guardian of Forever
I'm fine with the Guardian taking other forms, but as it stands that looks very unoriginal.
Reminds me of Chrono- Trigger
It aint the guardian
@@airrider-jk9ik I haven't and don't plan to watch Discovery. I'm just going by the title of the video. Is presume he/ she would have expertise on the subject.
@@billtree52 they do not, it was never stated in the show it was the guardian of forever, it was just stated to be a being on a planet with some kind of power, you sjould watch discovery because its actually nothing like these videos say it to be, lots of the clips are out of context and dont give the full scene or simply dont understand basic things
@@airrider-jk9ik all that aside I'm not paying for CBS All Access. I've heard enough about it from plenty of other sources to know that I will probably not enjoy it. I wish them luck though.
@@billtree52 its on netflix, if you have it, give discovery a chance, when it first got announced i was cautiously optimistic as a trekkie, but i was so glad to be proven wrong when it released. It perfectly captures the trek feel while bringing something new to it, the same it does with the roddenberry message
It’s not confirmed that is the guardian in discovery, it’s a totally different planet
@Tim Hands no but the guardian was a sentient machine and basically a talking portal this is a being and it’s in the gamma quadrant so definitely not the same thing, is anything it’s more likely a Q or seeing it’s the gamma quadrant a wormhole alien
No getting heads stuck in a "Mechanical rice picker" jokes. Thats how you know its 2020
How did you get the clip of the GoF a week before the episode came out?
I think you're giving the writers of this show way too much credit.
I don't. They tied all three things together with the simple newspaper prop. The Guardians in the original story were several giant men that moved as if standing still. The portal was a device, not The Guardians. That was changed in the last rewrite because the set department goofed up the planet city set directions.
The Klingon time temple used references from Ellison's WGA first draft script.
I don't think the series is brilliant or most of the acting very good, but I think the writers are paying attention to a lot of things the pop kid fans have missed, and they are changing things based on current SF style.
@@STho205 I didn't say he was wrong. He's probably right. I'm just saying that the writers didn't put anywhere near the consideration into their horrible, horrible scripts that he put into this video.
@@The_Persiflager I haven't seen this one, except his clips, but that TNG episode referenced was hokey, badly acted and dull. Not as bad as the planet of Nigerian stereotypes that wanted to buy or steal a blonde actress, but pretty bad.
Ellison's script was brilliant, but it was lessened by the "Tomorrow is Yesterday" episode coming first, which was a simplistic comedy storyline. The brilliance of Ellison's story was, unlike the Butterfly Effect he borrowed from *there never was a paradox* . The opposite of butterfly effect stories, which the viewers in 67 may have read or seen in other series. Kirk had always visited 1932 and ALWAYS caused Edith's death. The Guardian had to send him back right then and there, because the Guardian knows time's shape. That was reinforced by the epilogue in Assignment Earth.
I would like to see City done as originally written. I hoped Tarantino would remake that, as he is edgy enough to do Pulp Trek which is what City was before the rewrite. However I'm glad they did the rewrite in 66/67. I don't think I could have taken the original story as a kid.
Is the Guardian of forever in anyway related to the monoliths from the movies...?
I thought for half a second when he first appeared that he would introduce himself as Q. This is so much better.
*"I AM THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER"*
When TOS and ST:D had him say it, I felt that.
Oh look: a "member berry".
If this guy isn't the Guardian, I think he's just an escapee character from NuWho. He kinda smells like it, ya know?
Or a Q trolling.
Could be a Q, could be a random alien like Trelane or Apollo, people tend to forget there are multiple options.
I think he's just an out of work actor from the planet CSI !
@@HAGZ0483 At least when Q was trolling, he put in more effort with the costumes. Sometimes he even brought a Mariachi band. And cigars.
@@HAGZ0483 Thanks to Peter David and other material, I consider Trelane one of the Q. Also, tbf, aside from a little bit in Lower Decks, we've not seen a Q in years.
You know, Mr Atoz has just about the same technology but is A LOT less pretentious about it.
"Why did the lady go through the door?"
"To get to the other side."
The writing on this show has got to be the result of a keyboard pelted by hail.
He answers as simply as your level of understanding makes possible. :)
@@CommanderBalok very well observed.
"Yaaaaaaaaa... !"
- I won't be fooled again.
I’m REALLY glad CBS made STD pay per view. That prevented my wasting brain space on it.
"Stupid is as stupid does." - Forrest Gump.
OMG!
I think that's starting to make sense to me now.
"What do you call a cute portal?"
"A-door-able!"😂
Discovery has no business trying to Star Trek...
For some reason, Michelle Yeoh's "what the HELL is this?!" Cracks me up, lol 😋
Watching S3E10 of ST Discovery. "I AM THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER" .... Fans will know it is from Season 1, episode 28 Star Trek original. I recognized it as soon as I heard it and decided to do a youtube to see if anyone else did the same thing. I have seen that episode maybe two other times since I saw the original in April 1967. Can't believe it was so recognizable to me after first hearing it almost 54 years ago. Made me watch again "City on the Edge of Forever"...Lots of good stuff in that episode!!
Wow. At this point I really believe Kurtzman has a checklist named "Awesome Star Trek Stuff I Want to Ruin".
@@theborgqueen6891 I did. Season 1 and 2 and the first episode of S3, then I gave up on the hope of it ever improving. Discovery just have horrible writing.
Maybe you should stop being a Stan for shows with monkey sh*t writing.
A door from Monsters Inc.... Captain, we have a 2319!! 😉
"I'll ripoff a *thousand* franchises before I let this STD die!!!"
finally, a replacement for dilithium......
I skipped the previous few episodes, and found this episode "mostly" enjoyable minus the bad acting at the very end. Also how does an alternate timeline consistently have the same crews on starships? Also the plastic paddle sword at the end.
2:50 - I really want a parody of this where the dude strikes the "non-dodger" and splits his head and the people in the back are like "WTF why didn't he dodge?"
Piccolo: "Why. Didn't. You. DODGE!..."
We have to assume that something compels the MU to mimic the prime universe for some reason. Call it "temporal entanglement" or something and call it a day.
@@FortoFight I like to call it the Central Finite Curve (IE the finite number of infinite possibilities that are largely identical to where you started, with relatively minor divergences bere and there). Thanks Rick/Harmon for your way with words.
@@BertoxolusThePuzzled In R&M, every possible universe exists so some are bound to be similar. What I'm implying is that something links the Prime and Mirror universes in a way that forces them to be similar.
@@FortoFight methinks thee rationalizes much. tis but a plot device not morethan
00:55 So Alex Trebek was playing with danger🤣
1:27-1:35, just copy SG-1 with Anubis it would seem...
Is that Brass from CSI?
Yes it is
in this episode Stamets is killed by Georgiou and in the future is killed by Lorca :)
Neat
@@FortoFight nothing makes any sense in std :)
@@geliefdeliefde2339 I thought so, you're saying that continuity is broken. The problem with that is that you're assuming that 1) it actually is the past and 2) that the timeline can't be changed.
@@FortoFight I am not assuming. If
Charon is not yet destroyed then that is the past. As the Vulcans love to say it is simple logic. (:
@@geliefdeliefde2339 It's not necessarily actually the past, in the sense that it's not necessarily "real".
And even if it is actually the past, it could be possible for her to change the timeline? Or do you also give the same criticism to Voyager's finale?
The jokes were out character for the Guardian as seen in TOS.
That was a great episode (The TOS one)
I will say that disco episode actually felt like a star trek episode a bit. Still sucked compared to real trek.
Georgiou didn't go back in time, she went back into her own body holding her current memories.
That's actually a good theory
I was going to compare this to Voyager, but that would be insulting to voyager.
Are you suggesting the Tkon Portal is another instance of the Guardian?
it's just a similar idea to the original concept
There was an article in the newspaper "Carl" held up mentioning the Tkon Empire being threatened by a supernova... it's possible that the Discovery writers are alluding to the TNG portal being another instance of The Guardian of Forever.
Typical of how the show is more “magical space fantasy” than it is Sci-Fi.
And TOS isn't? Yikes
@@frankmaston Roddenberry engaged actual scientists to consult on TOS, TNG, & DS9.
Guess the number engaged by the producers of STD.
Oh my god that smile at the end is EPIC
Michael looks like a hyena
Scared the hell out of me.👀
Thats such a Ripoff from this Stargate Episode called Jim, in this alteran Dinner with anubis.
Damn I knew the dude in the chair seemed familiar. Jim was Anubis.
In my head cannon the Guardian is where the Stargate and Star Trek universes meet. Consider the similarity in construction materials, function and imprecise control methods between the portal and the Quantum Mirror
@@grukk4051 if only....
@@grukk4051
Good point gof is like a combo of the gate and mirror.
@@2bituser569 Different actors Carl is played by Paul Guilfoyle and Jim/Anubis was played by George Dzundza
What episode was the TNG?