EDITH: You know as well as I do how out of place you two are around here. SPOCK: Interesting. Where would you estimate we belong, Miss Keeler? EDITH: You? At his side, as if you've always been there and always will. And you? You belong in another place. I don't know where or how. I'll figure it out eventually. SPOCK: I'll finish with the furnace. EDITH: Captain. Even when he doesn't say it, he does.
My favorite episode ever since I saw it the first time when the series was new. I loved the contrast between the current time in Star Trek and Edith's time.
R.I.P. for all who was lost on space shuttle changerer and the space shuttler Columbia.We miss you but you gave us on what we are looking for the future.
"It's very painful for writers who care about their work..." Welcome to television, Mr. Ellison. If you write things into the script that go against the grain of the characters, introduce huge changes into the series bible, and call for a feature film budget, then you can expect cuts.
Exactly. I like Ellison's work, but when someone hires you to write a story in their universe, you have to play by the established rules, and if you don't, folks will make you. Or, if control of the show is that bad, it will disappear after a half dozen episodes because no viewer will like it.
@@CommanderBalok Ellsion could not seem to grasp the hypocrisy he showed complaining about the changes to his characters while ignoring the fact that he himself was greatly changing Roddenberry's vision of the Star Trek Universe being a place where such human weakness as drug abuse was solved... which was ignored again anyway when Deep Sapce Nine came along. Ellison was indeed a great writer but his ego was immense and overbearing.
@@ElaineSamuela - Certainly among the most talented and - as was COMMON then among artists and STILL seems to be BROADLY common today - among the most Prima-Donnish Narcissistically _Arrogant_ , but no more than Roddenberry himself . Stories ABOUND . That does NOT diminish their individual creativity , but DOES point to other personal challenges" that it were better not to haver affected the work product , overall. Ellison provided an EXCELLENT "Concept" and even gave it the depth needed for OTHERS more intimately familiar with the "Mission" and vision of Star Trek to develop it to its PROPER conclusion . In his ARROGANCE - sort of a MASSIVE "you hurt my feelings by not *LOVING my work* ...." - so COMMON , even today among Y-T Content creators (and COMMENTERS) , he fell victim to the tunnel-vision that comes as a natural result - not being able to SEE beyond his _own_ self-constructed "vision" ... . But to TRY and make some JEW-Hate comparison places YOU right there SQUARE in the CENTER of the very same kind of thing . No ROOM for HATE in _ART_ - unless THAT is what the artist is trying to sell . THESE days - It _often_ *is* . To TRY and take something SO _BROADLY_ COMMON to modern society as a whole and narrow it down to YOUR _PARTICULAR_ favorite group to hate - places you squarely in the CENTER of the very "culture" Ellison and other narcissistic self important "creators" (and - again - "commenters" ) inhabit . Back off a little . Try a little broader vision , but without sacrificing those parts of your _own_ experience that help you discern TRUTH from BIAS , and you'll find for _yourself_ a much BROADER palette to draw from in life 👍! ALL the _best_ - - C .
I like thaty one along WITH the DS-9 Episode . In FACT -_that's_ the ONLY DS-9 Episode I REALL liked . Lotts were good , and I recommend it to anyone who wants the FULL Trek experience , but THESE two "Treks" - these 2 episodes were MY favorite cross-over !
Assignment: Earth is another great episode. Set in the 20th century, and within my own lifetime, it's intriguing to imagine being in close contact with humans from the future, as well as a human that was raised in a more advanced civilisation. It turned out well in the end, as it transpired that both outside parties were trying to help.
Thank you for mentioning the use of the original story to inspire Mirror Mirror. I have told people for years the Mirror universe Terrain Empire was simply the result of Edith Keeler not being killed by that truck and Hitler winning WWII. Otherwise things wouldnt hhave been that close. It was in effect a sequel. So many kids with TNG, DS9, Enterprise and Discovery have unfounded theories that completely ignore the original writing. Ellison's original script was great on its own, but violated everything TOS was going to do after the team fully laid out The Federation around Christmas 1966. Having Spock commanding a firing squad. Having a crewman being a criminal, having drug addicted crewmen, etc... All this went against what would go into DC Fontana's writers Bible for the series. This was much cleaner for the show than Ellison's elaborate script which would have required several parts, and seems more like a DS9 era multi episode arc. This episode did make post Yeoman Rand Kirk a 3d character, and helped solidify Spock (along with Galileo 7) as the character we know. Ellison's script may have worked, if trimmed, in the first half year of TOS because the formula wasn't fully in place yet and they did some pretty racey stuff, however then Edith would not have been a romance and Kirk letting her die would not have been so gut wrenchingly dramatic. The idea that sometimes the good must die for the greater good is true drama.
Spock's building of an electronic project from individual parts sparked the technical interest and imagination of many future engineers and technicians, including myself. I often wonder if the creators of this episode realized that.
Am I really the first to notice that this video about a Star Trek episode featuring time travel seems to have a time loop? The words from 7:23- 7:40 are identical to 8:25- 8:42.
The problem with what Ellison wrote it that it was better suited as a full length movie than a TV episode. The scope of what Ellison wanted couldn't be done, he balked when prompted to make it fit and others had to take charge. His script was 10 years before it's time.
The films that were used to show Earth's history inside the Guardian came from the RKO film library, not the Paramount library, as mentioned. Desilu owned the RKO library and at the time this episode was produced, Gulf+Western had not (yet) purchased Desilu.
Ellison’s original concept seems like it would’ve been too congested with too many story elements and insufficient focus than what we eventually got. For God’s sake, it wasn’t going to be 2 hours long.
For all his great writing skills, Ellsion apparently never did grasp (or care about) the limits of TV production. He showed this time and again for many years to come.
I doubt I would ever want to read anything from Ellison. He sounds much like today's fiction writers who only write things that are dark, bleek and depressing with no sense of hope whatsoever.
The Guardian says "I have my own beginning and my own ending." and yet, as Guardian of "Forever" suggests it exists in perpetuity. Finally, when Kirk asks if The Guardian "can change the speed at which yesterday passes?" it replies: "I was MADE to offer the past in this manner. I cannot change." which confirms a creator and suggest that it is limitedly mortal. I know this is not scientific, but what if God created The Guardian as a means for redemption? But of course, that opens an infinite number of potential paradoxes as well.
The Big Dough Nut can save STD by reseting the Jar Jar Verse into Original Timeline. TOS crew jump through, drop the Universe Existence Bomb. Jump back. Everything returns to normal. Thus we have the cure for a really bad STD.
Bud did Edith Keeler actually have to die? If she had gone into the future with Kirk et all she would not have been around to head the peace movement. Even so it was a fantastic story.
Ellison is always kind of brutal. Besides executions, pirates on the Enterprise, and helping Edith not take due care and attention while crossing the street... he would have had Bones and Kirk feed her into a wood chipper alive to make sure she did not help Hitler win Double U Double U 2 in the 5th Re-Write.
Yes Edith had to die because the guardian confirmed to Kirk that if they were successful in undoing what Mc Coy had done then they would be returned from the past..which ment Edith had to die as she was originally supposed to before anyone had gone back and changed the past.
That is true what if they brought back with them I guess death of kirk's true ❤️ more dramatic and bittersweet. They brought Jillian back to their time in the 🐳 movie.
Imagine a response this positive while reusing old costumes and props and 2 rooms on the back lot. Cheap episode to make. The alien doorway would have been the only expensive new one-time-use prop to be built for this. Had to cost at least $20 to build.
I am grateful for star trek continues. Because of that we have another 11 episodes of original star trek for total of 90 episodes look for star trek continues on TH-cam for these 11 episodes. They would going to do a episode of different time time travel. But they only do 11 episodes of star trek continues but in episode four of star trek continues we see what they planned to do in episode they could not do the captain goes back in time in his mind
@@JonnyBaak most star trek think. It is very good star trek continues gives the fans 11 more episodes of the original star trek my favorite episode of star trek continues is number four the captain deals with grief in his lifetime in many ways it look back on different episodes
@@JonnyBaak the last two episodes of star trek continues gives the fans the ending they should HAD when the original star trek was done but because of star trek continues we have that ending we needed to HAVE l am grateful to star trek continues
Roddenberry asked for a Star Trek script and Ellison delivered a movie length Sci-fi classic that could have been a stand alone film. Ellison never forgave the changes that were made to make it fit the Star Trek universe. No matter the machinations that brought it to be, it is one of the finest episodes in the history of the franchise and should have been selected as the basis for the Star Trek V movie.
Years ago I saw Star Trek episodes uncensored and they had interviews. Harlan was one of them. He griped about how his script was changed despite the original and rewrite both getting awards. Not surprised hearing Halan treating Shatner like trash. In the interview Ellison didn’t seem like a likable person. I think he believed his own hype and thought himself too good for his writing to be changed to fit the Star Trek formula. By he description of the original story the one finally shown is better. Never read anything of Harlan Ellison. But my impression of him in that interview and how nasty he seemed to be not at all surprised how he treated Shatner.
The finished episode did have its flaws,but since it did so much right fans ignore the faults.ELLISON was right about the idea of MCKOY accidently injecting himself and in an insane state beaming down to the planet.I think that's why they wrote in the ENTERPRISE was being shaken by time distortion waves caused by the GUARDIAN that caused him to fumble and beam down to hide until the away team arrived was a stretch of imagination that would have seemed highly unlikely,especially to ELLISON.Also the first person a deranged McCoy inspects,he comments on the cranial development being less developed.This implies humans are physically more evolved in a couple hundred years,certainly unlikely and never mentioned again in STAR TREK lore.And what about the poor old guy who accidently disintegrates himself with the good docs phaser(Why is the doctor carrying a phaser?) I guess he didn't matter enough to change history !!
It's amazing that the original manuscript is a masterpiece which won that years prostigious si-fi writers award and the actual rewritten final piece that was filmed and released into the mists of time and the infinite which Ellison viewed as inferior and disdain, and even a lesser, compromised finished product of diminishing returns by his account is still an unmitigated, irrefutable opus of peerless creative heights, the high watetmark for television quality and superior by any genre, era or or measurement in the industry of excellence. The man's disregared material is still the stuff of cosmic legend. This singular work will stand the test of time, 'forever' and a day.
Am I going insane? I have searched. I swear I saw an episode or film of something "Star Trek" where the Guardian (or a second one) was immense, and a ship flew through it. Could someone please direct me to where/what is this?
But wait! I just thought of a solution. Edith doesn’t have to die! “Edith, you’re coming with us.” She could have started a new life in the future with her new love JTK.
Tried to stream this for free on demand; Daily Motoon's audio track has everyone on helium. Other services want me to buy/rent from $2.99. Guess I'll find my ST TOS DVD set in the garage... oh well, at least I have it safely offline.
Kirk's heartbreak and loss over a loved woman occur a bit too much (I would highlight the native American and two androids, including the gorgeous Sherry Jackson) in the series, to the effect of taking some of the impact of the plot. In spite of that, and all the creative complains of Ellison, it was worth the big effort, delays and blowing the budget. For me it is one super classical Trek moment.
Kirk's sacrifice? Kirk had a "true love" every fucking week. What about Edith's sacrifice? She lost her life, and she didn't even know why. What worse, Edith Keeler did NOT have to die. All she needed to do was NOT form the peace group. Yet the made no attempt to explain to her what was going to happen. How hard would it have been? They had a green blooded space alien handy to PROVE their story was true.
Here we go again. Please be advised that the WRITERS were instructed to write romantic interest for the Captain, and also time after time, the Captain always choose his ship, the Enterprise as his very first love along with his crew and his career as the Captain of the Enterprise.
No, Edith was a"Water Walker". Even showing her, her future she would just change her approach to the peace movement. Also the Guardian told them the past must be righted to ensure the future.
Sci-fi writers at that time were still largely looked down upon by the literary community in general, so Ellison had a chip on his shoulder anyway. Still does for that matter. He had always been egocentric and bristled at the idea of changing anything he wrote, which he looked upon as perfection. He knew full well that rewrites come with the territory, whether it's writing a book, play, or script. He babbles about the work coming before the money... but he still takes the money though. The idea of Spock executing someone is totally anathema to Roddenberry's concept of the Vulcan race, much less the Spock character- and any writer with half a brain should know it. In case you haven't picked up on it, I'm not much of a Harlan Ellison fan. Ha. Overrated and his own biggest fan. Just listen to some of his interviews.
Ellison was a little poop. First, all writer's works are subject to editing and rewrites and he should have known that. Second, as long as what he created enjoyment by the audience he should have been pleased.
"An execution taking place would have damaged the long term Star Trek lore"??? OMG! You've got to be kidding me!!! What about when Kirk's friend Gary Mitchell is endowed with psychic powers, and Kirk is forced to beam him down to some deserted planet, in order to execute him, doesn't that count? The truth of the matter is that Rottenberry, aside from being a hack, meaning a terrible writer, he was also a horrible little dictator!!!
Everybody who had anything to do with the Star Trek program didn’t realize that subconsciously they were receiving their ideas from other civilizations sending out communication from distant worlds in the universe a long long time ago. What the audience is witnessing are events that were actually science fact a long time ago🤔👍.
Am I the only one that noticed that everything that Rottenberry didn't want from the original script, he eventually used anyway in subsequent episodes??? Beaming down to a deserted planet to perform an execution, An Enterprise manned by renegades, The crew acting as if they were on drugs, Etc.
An Enterprise manned by renegades happened way after Roddenberry passed away (Star Trek Voyager). Mind you it was Voyager instead of Enterprise but they were still run by renegades (the marquis).
The problem with "City" is that it's coincidence-driven -- it isn't a real drama. Ellison thinks his work can't be improved on. (He also pays little attention to the cost or running time of his stories, and considers anything even vaguely resembling his work to be theft -- which is why he gets story credit on several Terminator films.) I rewrote it to make it a real drama, and had Spock kill Edith to keep kirk from bringing her "Back to the Future" (ar-ar). I sent him a copy explaining the problems, and he called me. We spoke briefly, but there was no time for an extended discussion.
Actually I like Mirror better. An evil Pat Mischel just like Capt Kirk. Maybe my life wouldn't have been screwed up. Now I am scrambling out of black hole. Because I am too nice.
Don't believe it. Ellison became evermore bitter about the episode as time went on. Mainly because it was the main reason he continued to be interviewed over the years.
The INFAMOUS Joan Collins episode Captain Kirk goes to AmeriKKKa and if Hitler wins WW2............... Yeah - Gene Roddenberry was on SOMETHING...............
Harlan with this interview shown just reinforces my intense dislike for him. Thinking arrogantly that he’s so wonderful he can’t change anything. I don’t care how good a writer you think you are, you can always make it better or you can be stubborn and have others rewrite and make it better. Years ago I was on a writer’s list. It’s no longer around. People wrote short stories, poetry , whatever you wanted. It was a critique site. No one was paid, no one was professional. I was writing a serial at the time and putting stories up. Got praise. One guy said something I never forgot. He said show not tell. But he never elaborated. He gave some criticisms but good ones,not just to criticize. So each new story got better. When he finally said I was showing and not telling I got it. I was in my 40’s at the time and had been dabbling in writing since I was 9. I learned from one teacher that you don’t stop at one rough draft, but not over rewrite so I slowly learned the difference. I also realized that if I couldn’t picture things no one else could and worked hard on scene changes, dialogue describing things. I did it for fun. I learned from that person on that list to show not tell. Judging from Ellison’s attitude he just thought he was all that. He never had to change anything. I think people stroked his ego a bit too much, awards got to his head so he thought he could do no wrong. With writing you never stop learning to do better. If you’re an artist you never stop trying new things, you never stop learning how to do it better. In that critique list I gave my opinions on one person’s writing. They were suggestions that she could take or leave. If you’re on a critique list you may not hear what you want from others. She got so outraged that she said because of you I’ll never write again! We’ll she wanted to be published. Good for her. But if you submit, you’ll get editing and notes and suggestions. They get paid whether you like the criticisms or not. I said if you want to be a writer you’re always improving or should. And if she couldn’t take my criticisms that she could take or leave, how was she going to handle a professional editor you submit your work to. They don’t care about a fragile ego. Who knows how many rejections and rewrites a published writer or a want to be published writer goes through. It’s part of it. Ellison just seemed the type where he thought he never had to improve, to learn. He just seemed mean to boot. I was only published once. It was an Edgar Rice Burroughs fan magazine from 1997 I believe. I had just gotten my first computer and was interested in Tarzan and found an ERB site so they said submit a review of a Tarzan story. So I did and it was printed. I still have it and that’s the closest I’ve been to being published. No pay just having it in. I no longer write I do hobby art. Just for me. I’m always improving, trying new things. Chuck in old ways. I’m not so arrogant that my art can never improve and it has over 26 years. I still try to make it better. No one will buy but they’ll take it for free. I’ll never stop getting better. Writers are only as good as their last story. You can tell the difference between a criticism just to criticize and one really giving suggestions to make it better or improve the next story. Harlan seemed too full of himself. And mean.
this guy is the definition of arrogant. he creates a script that obviously isn't suitable for the show and he's bitter about changes? ...and there's nothing left out of his story that'd be missed; in fact it was slightly stupid.
This is by far the best of Star Trek.
EDITH: You know as well as I do how out of place you two are around here.
SPOCK: Interesting. Where would you estimate we belong, Miss Keeler?
EDITH: You? At his side, as if you've always been there and always will. And you? You belong in another place. I don't know where or how. I'll figure it out eventually.
SPOCK: I'll finish with the furnace.
EDITH: Captain. Even when he doesn't say it, he does.
One of my favourite comments on the whole of you tube 👍👍👍
best episode ever,never tire watching it seen it well over a hundred times and still love it
william geddes Same here, it’s in my top 5 along with Balance of Terror, A Piece of the Action, The Cage and Tomorrow is Yesterday
My favorite episode ever since I saw it the first time when the series was new. I loved the contrast between the current time in Star Trek and Edith's time.
R.I.P. for all who was lost on space shuttle changerer and the space shuttler Columbia.We miss you but you gave us on what we are looking for the future.
So memorable.
"It's very painful for writers who care about their work..." Welcome to television, Mr. Ellison. If you write things into the script that go against the grain of the characters, introduce huge changes into the series bible, and call for a feature film budget, then you can expect cuts.
Exactly. I like Ellison's work, but when someone hires you to write a story in their universe, you have to play by the established rules, and if you don't, folks will make you. Or, if control of the show is that bad, it will disappear after a half dozen episodes because no viewer will like it.
@@CommanderBalok Ellsion could not seem to grasp the hypocrisy he showed complaining about the changes to his characters while ignoring the fact that he himself was greatly changing Roddenberry's vision of the Star Trek Universe being a place where such human weakness as drug abuse was solved... which was ignored again anyway when Deep Sapce Nine came along. Ellison was indeed a great writer but his ego was immense and overbearing.
YIKES !! - and EXACTLY _RIGHT_ 👍👍!!
Harlan is a combination of both the best and the worst when a large number of Ashkenazic genes occur.
@@ElaineSamuela - Certainly among the most talented and - as was COMMON then among artists and STILL seems to be BROADLY common today - among the most Prima-Donnish Narcissistically _Arrogant_ , but no more than Roddenberry himself . Stories ABOUND . That does NOT diminish their individual creativity , but DOES point to other personal challenges" that it were better not to haver affected the work product , overall.
Ellison provided an EXCELLENT "Concept" and even gave it the depth needed for OTHERS more intimately familiar with the "Mission" and vision of Star Trek to develop it to its PROPER conclusion .
In his ARROGANCE - sort of a MASSIVE "you hurt my feelings by not *LOVING my work* ...." - so COMMON , even today among Y-T Content creators (and COMMENTERS) , he fell victim to the tunnel-vision that comes as a natural result - not being able to SEE beyond his _own_ self-constructed "vision" ... .
But to TRY and make some JEW-Hate comparison places YOU right there SQUARE in the CENTER of the very same kind of thing . No ROOM for HATE in _ART_ - unless THAT is what the artist is trying to sell . THESE days - It _often_ *is* .
To TRY and take something SO _BROADLY_ COMMON to modern society as a whole and narrow it down to YOUR _PARTICULAR_ favorite group to hate - places you squarely in the CENTER of the very "culture" Ellison and other narcissistic self important "creators" (and - again - "commenters" ) inhabit .
Back off a little .
Try a little broader vision , but without sacrificing those parts of your _own_ experience that help you discern TRUTH from BIAS , and you'll find for _yourself_ a much BROADER palette to draw from in life 👍!
ALL the _best_ -
- C .
And I can't believe when people chuckle at me when I tell them I grew up watching and admiring the Original Star Trek series.
Trouble with Tribbles will always be my favorite episode.🙂
I like thaty one along WITH the DS-9 Episode . In FACT -_that's_ the ONLY DS-9 Episode I REALL liked . Lotts were good , and I recommend it to anyone who wants the FULL Trek experience , but THESE two "Treks" - these 2 episodes were MY favorite cross-over !
a lot better than this rubbish
The concept of the Guardian is quite profound, a thing that had yearned for a question even before the Earth's sun was formed.
Assignment: Earth is another great episode. Set in the 20th century, and within my own lifetime, it's intriguing to imagine being in close contact with humans from the future, as well as a human that was raised in a more advanced civilisation. It turned out well in the end, as it transpired that both outside parties were trying to help.
Not only the best episode of Star Trek --- might be the best film ever.
Thanks for such an insightful history.
Thank you for mentioning the use of the original story to inspire Mirror Mirror. I have told people for years the Mirror universe Terrain Empire was simply the result of Edith Keeler not being killed by that truck and Hitler winning WWII. Otherwise things wouldnt hhave been that close. It was in effect a sequel. So many kids with TNG, DS9, Enterprise and Discovery have unfounded theories that completely ignore the original writing.
Ellison's original script was great on its own, but violated everything TOS was going to do after the team fully laid out The Federation around Christmas 1966. Having Spock commanding a firing squad. Having a crewman being a criminal, having drug addicted crewmen, etc... All this went against what would go into DC Fontana's writers Bible for the series.
This was much cleaner for the show than Ellison's elaborate script which would have required several parts, and seems more like a DS9 era multi episode arc. This episode did make post Yeoman Rand Kirk a 3d character, and helped solidify Spock (along with Galileo 7) as the character we know.
Ellison's script may have worked, if trimmed, in the first half year of TOS because the formula wasn't fully in place yet and they did some pretty racey stuff, however then Edith would not have been a romance and Kirk letting her die would not have been so gut wrenchingly dramatic. The idea that sometimes the good must die for the greater good is true drama.
Spock's building of an electronic project from individual parts sparked the technical interest and imagination of many future engineers and technicians, including myself. I often wonder if the creators of this episode realized that.
I often wondered how Jacob's Ladder was useful in a mnemonic memory circuit.
Yes I agree one of the best episodes in TOS.
Everybodys favorite episode.
@@danbasta3677
Well deserved!
Not just Star Trek
At that time this episode would be on any list of best television episodes EVER!
Has anyone ever notice, that the giant donut that they all jump through, looks just like the stargate on the TV show, Stargate SG1?
Frankly I think the idea of an execution taking place would have damaged the long term Star Trek lore.
I completely agree with you, but imo Ellsion was too much an egotist to care about such things as that.
Agreed. Executions of their own people in the 23rd Century? Not likely.
I also agree. An execution is not in line with the advanced culture of sensibilities the original Star Trek has tried to follow.
@@domenicsandri2740 There was only one capital offence in TOS Star Trek. And the one person who did it was not executed.
I mean… going to Talos IV was a crime punishable by death.
Somebody’s gotta carry that out.
Fascinating....
Dame Joan Collins elevates every script she touches. Such class and feminine style. You can't take your eyes off her.🎉❤
We just revisited this one too. Classic episode!
It is my favorite TOS episode so I think Ellison is wrong, this time only "the suits" were right.
"Kirk makes the ultimate sacrifice." Didn't Edith Keeler?
Hey Jonny,. Thanks for an awesome video. Live Long & Prosper.
One of my favorite episodes
This episode was amazing I understand that universal wanted to make a movie from this episode but Ellison refused .
It would be an amazing movie.
Good for him!
I worship the very air Harlan Ellison breathes!
This was a very good episode
Filmed in mayberry.
I love Edge of Tomorrow and Mirror Mirror.
My favorite episodes are probably:
1) Amok Time
2) Mirror Mirror
3) Journey to Babel
4) City on the Edge of Forever
5) Trouble with Tribbles
Am I really the first to notice that this video about a Star Trek episode featuring time travel seems to have a time loop? The words from 7:23- 7:40 are identical to 8:25- 8:42.
@Daniel Appleton Fascinating.
@Daniel Appleton Indeed it did 😅
Most Illogical
haha i noticed that! and the visuals repeated too
. . .they probably did that so they could squeeze in another advertisement
The film Back to the Future used ideas from this Star Trek episode.
The problem with what Ellison wrote it that it was better suited as a full length movie than a TV episode. The scope of what Ellison wanted couldn't be done, he balked when prompted to make it fit and others had to take charge. His script was 10 years before it's time.
no it was just bs
we need to write part 2 of this episode, and blend it with the original , Mirror Mirror, a whole new twist
I really like "Fairest Of Them All" from "Star Trek Continues"
Joan Collins...Pre-Dynasty fame
The films that were used to show Earth's history inside the Guardian came from the RKO film library, not the Paramount library, as mentioned. Desilu owned the RKO library and at the time this episode was produced, Gulf+Western had not (yet) purchased Desilu.
Nice episode 👌👏........ although my own personal favorite is "The Deadly Years".
The Best!
Excellent stuff, good sir.
That would of been great to have Mark Leonard using the quardian!
Ellison’s original concept seems like it would’ve been too congested with too many story elements and insufficient focus than what we eventually got.
For God’s sake, it wasn’t going to be 2 hours long.
For all his great writing skills, Ellsion apparently never did grasp (or care about) the limits of TV production. He showed this time and again for many years to come.
I doubt I would ever want to read anything from Ellison. He sounds much like today's fiction writers who only write things that are dark, bleek and depressing with no sense of hope whatsoever.
The Guardian says "I have my own beginning and my own ending." and yet, as Guardian of "Forever" suggests it exists in perpetuity. Finally, when Kirk asks if The Guardian "can change the speed at which yesterday passes?" it replies: "I was MADE to offer the past in this manner. I cannot change." which confirms a creator and suggest that it is limitedly mortal.
I know this is not scientific, but what if God created The Guardian as a means for redemption? But of course, that opens an infinite number of potential paradoxes as well.
Thnaks. I wish you have uploaded the episode.
Don't forget the guy who vaporized himself with McCoy's device.
5:32 So where is the dynamite original script, and has it ever been performed ???
Scotty: "Good luck, Gentlemen."
Uhura: Happiness at least sir."
Kirk had both, but could only keep one or the other.
I never knew Scotty was the voice of the Guardian in the animated series
James Doohan voiced a lot of supporting characters on TAS
The Big Dough Nut can save STD by reseting the Jar Jar Verse into Original Timeline. TOS crew jump through, drop the Universe Existence Bomb. Jump back. Everything returns to normal. Thus we have the cure for a really bad STD.
Bud did Edith Keeler actually have to die? If she had gone into the future with Kirk et all she would not have been around to head the peace movement.
Even so it was a fantastic story.
Ellison is always kind of brutal. Besides executions, pirates on the Enterprise, and helping Edith not take due care and attention while crossing the street... he would have had Bones and Kirk feed her into a wood chipper alive to make sure she did not help Hitler win Double U Double U 2 in the 5th Re-Write.
Yes Edith had to die because the guardian confirmed to Kirk that if they were successful in undoing what Mc Coy had done then they would be returned from the past..which ment Edith had to die as she was originally supposed to before anyone had gone back and changed the past.
Eric Taylor can't change timeline. Non-interference prime directive
That is true what if they brought back with them I guess death of kirk's true ❤️ more dramatic and bittersweet. They brought Jillian back to their time in the 🐳 movie.
But like bobby said in earlier comment. Don't f - with timeline or you possibly could your own existence. One of my fav episodes !☝️️👏
Good story
Imagine a response this positive while reusing old costumes and props and 2 rooms on the back lot. Cheap episode to make. The alien doorway would have been the only expensive new one-time-use prop to be built for this. Had to cost at least $20 to build.
Can someone explain how McCoy can go back through time, cause the Enterprise in orbit to disappear, and yet the landing party are all still there?
One of the best episodes I've seen, Ellison was just being a B, and nitpicky
Yes, he was
I am grateful for star trek continues. Because of that we have another 11 episodes of original star trek for total of 90 episodes look for star trek continues on TH-cam for these 11 episodes. They would going to do a episode of different time time travel. But they only do 11 episodes of star trek continues but in episode four of star trek continues we see what they planned to do in episode they could not do the captain goes back in time in his mind
Just recently binge watched Star Trek Continues and loved it! 😃
@@JonnyBaak most star trek think. It is very good star trek continues gives the fans 11 more episodes of the original star trek my favorite episode of star trek continues is number four the captain deals with grief in his lifetime in many ways it look back on different episodes
@@JonnyBaak the last two episodes of star trek continues gives the fans the ending they should HAD when the original star trek was done but because of star trek continues we have that ending we needed to HAVE l am grateful to star trek continues
Roddenberry asked for a Star Trek script and Ellison delivered a movie length Sci-fi classic that could have been a stand alone film. Ellison never forgave the changes that were made to make it fit the Star Trek universe.
No matter the machinations that brought it to be, it is one of the finest episodes in the history of the franchise and should have been selected as the basis for the Star Trek V movie.
The best episodes are those which are long and then cut down. If done well you end up with the best bits, which looks like what happened here.
Since the invention of movies scriptwriters have complained about their scripts being changed by directors, producers, etc. It's an old story.
Years ago I saw Star Trek episodes uncensored and they had interviews. Harlan was one of them. He griped about how his script was changed despite the original and rewrite both getting awards. Not surprised hearing Halan treating Shatner like trash. In the interview Ellison didn’t seem like a likable person. I think he believed his own hype and thought himself too good for his writing to be changed to fit the Star Trek formula. By he description of the original story the one finally shown is better. Never read anything of Harlan Ellison. But my impression of him in that interview and how nasty he seemed to be not at all surprised how he treated Shatner.
At least Ellison didnt hate it enough to use his fake name of Cordwainer Bird thank goodness!
So THAT"S why he didn't use it. It has always sounded like he hated it.
Actually, I believe he tried, and Roddenberry wouldn't let him.
The finished episode did have its flaws,but since it did so much right fans ignore the faults.ELLISON was right about the idea of MCKOY accidently injecting himself and in an insane state beaming down to the planet.I think that's why they wrote in the ENTERPRISE was being shaken by time distortion waves caused by the GUARDIAN that caused him to fumble and beam down to hide until the away team arrived was a stretch of imagination that would have seemed highly unlikely,especially to ELLISON.Also the first person a deranged McCoy inspects,he comments on the cranial development being less developed.This implies humans are physically more evolved in a couple hundred years,certainly unlikely and never mentioned again in STAR TREK lore.And what about the poor old guy who accidently disintegrates himself with the good docs phaser(Why is the doctor carrying a phaser?) I guess he didn't matter enough to change history !!
It's amazing that the original manuscript is a masterpiece which won that years prostigious si-fi writers award and the actual rewritten final piece that was filmed and released into the mists of time and the infinite which Ellison viewed as inferior and disdain, and even a lesser, compromised finished product of diminishing returns by his account is still an unmitigated, irrefutable opus of peerless creative heights, the high watetmark for television quality and superior by any genre, era or or measurement in the industry of excellence. The man's disregared material is still the stuff of cosmic legend.
This singular work will stand the test of time, 'forever' and a day.
what a load of hyperbolic rubbish
Am I going insane?
I have searched. I swear I saw an episode or film of something "Star Trek"
where the Guardian (or a second one) was immense, and a ship flew
through it. Could someone please direct me to where/what is this?
They could use the Guardian to bring Kirk back
Neeeerrrrrrdddd!
@@haileyshannon7548 Are You having a bad day? Feel better soon!
one of, if not THE best episode in my opinion. I found it kind of empty at the end though. 'Lets get the hell out of here' just was missing something.
Harlan Ellison, Richard Matheson are fantastic writers.
But wait! I just thought of a solution. Edith doesn’t have to die! “Edith, you’re coming with us.” She could have started a new life in the future with her new love JTK.
Oh that Harlin Ellison. He is a vicious little chihuahua, but his stories really are tat good, he can get away with it.
The only episode in which 6 people beamed down but 7 people beamed back up. Check it out.
Tried to stream this for free on demand; Daily Motoon's audio track has everyone on helium. Other services want me to buy/rent from $2.99. Guess I'll find my ST TOS DVD set in the garage... oh well, at least I have it safely offline.
execution=too brutal for the enlightened future.
Guest Star, Little Lady Joan Collins
it's so weird how you used the logo for the tv show "episodes" lol
HappY BirThdaY ScoTTy.
GoddeSS God BleSS GeeZer
Harlan Ellison genius
Do the full script in a movie. Obviously, it was long enough for a full length movie or mini series.
Bob Justman was producer, not a director.
fun
why doesn’t Netflix pick up the original script and do a remake?
Kirk's heartbreak and loss over a loved woman occur a bit too much (I would highlight the native American and two androids, including the gorgeous Sherry Jackson) in the series, to the effect of taking some of the impact of the plot. In spite of that, and all the creative complains of Ellison, it was worth the big effort, delays and blowing the budget. For me it is one super classical Trek moment.
He did fall in love with the Indian.
NO GO HERBERT!!! NO GO!!!! NO GO NO GO NO GO!!!!!!
Spock stealing!!? What!
Lots of good info and editing but you need a solid microphone and to work on your wooden delivery.
MeTV should play the cartoon Star Trek shows.
Kirk's sacrifice? Kirk had a "true love" every fucking week. What about Edith's sacrifice? She lost her life, and she didn't even know why. What worse, Edith Keeler did NOT have to die. All she needed to do was NOT form the peace group. Yet the made no attempt to explain to her what was going to happen.
How hard would it have been? They had a green blooded space alien handy to PROVE their story was true.
Agreed. Man couldn't keep it in his pants.
Here we go again. Please be advised that the WRITERS were instructed to write romantic interest for the Captain, and also time after time, the Captain always choose his ship, the Enterprise as his very first love along with his crew and his career as the Captain of the Enterprise.
No, Edith was a"Water Walker". Even showing her, her future she would just change her approach to the peace movement. Also the Guardian told them the past must be righted to ensure the future.
when i was a kid this was considered one of the boring episodes
totally agree thank you extremely boring & stupid
mccoys reaction to the drug is similar to what i am going through right now!
i have been suffering with a kidney stone for 20 hours.
jeffrey mcfadden owwwww
Sci-fi writers at that time were still largely looked down upon by the literary community in general, so Ellison had a chip on his shoulder anyway. Still does for that matter. He had always been egocentric and bristled at the idea of changing anything he wrote, which he looked upon as perfection. He knew full well that rewrites come with the territory, whether it's writing a book, play, or script. He babbles about the work coming before the money... but he still takes the money though. The idea of Spock executing someone is totally anathema to Roddenberry's concept of the Vulcan race, much less the Spock character- and any writer with half a brain should know it. In case you haven't picked up on it, I'm not much of a Harlan Ellison fan. Ha. Overrated and his own biggest fan. Just listen to some of his interviews.
whole episode way overrated & boring no action
@@peanut1001x I actually liked the finished episode but it's only thanks to DC Fontana that it turned out so well.
Ellison was a little poop. First, all writer's works are subject to editing and rewrites and he should have known that. Second, as long as what he created enjoyment by the audience he should have been pleased.
Mastery requires fierce protection. There's no visionary originality without fighting for a bold artistic idea.
Yeah, Ellison has always struck me as a real crank
It was canceled because the producers had no cinematic vision of the future at all obviously.🤷🏼🙄🤔
"An execution taking place would have damaged the long term Star Trek lore"??? OMG! You've got to be kidding me!!! What about when Kirk's friend Gary Mitchell is endowed with psychic powers, and Kirk is forced to beam him down to some deserted planet, in order to execute him, doesn't that count? The truth of the matter is that Rottenberry, aside from being a hack, meaning a terrible writer, he was also a horrible little dictator!!!
If you check out Harlan Ellison's bio you will find that he was the #1 jerk-off of all.
Oh that episode....that was not an execution.....that was self-defense.
😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄
Everybody who had anything to do with the Star Trek program didn’t realize that subconsciously they were receiving their ideas from other civilizations sending out communication from distant worlds in the universe a long long time ago. What the audience is witnessing are events that were actually science fact a long time ago🤔👍.
get help
Am I the only one that noticed that everything that Rottenberry didn't want from the original script, he eventually used anyway in subsequent episodes??? Beaming down to a deserted planet to perform an execution, An Enterprise manned by renegades, The crew acting as if they were on drugs, Etc.
An Enterprise manned by renegades happened way after Roddenberry passed away (Star Trek Voyager). Mind you it was Voyager instead of Enterprise but they were still run by renegades (the marquis).
A crew acting like they were on drugs kind of describes Catspaw.
As far as beaming down to a deserted planet to perform an execution explain yourself please 😏
The problem with "City" is that it's coincidence-driven -- it isn't a real drama. Ellison thinks his work can't be improved on. (He also pays little attention to the cost or running time of his stories, and considers anything even vaguely resembling his work to be theft -- which is why he gets story credit on several Terminator films.) I rewrote it to make it a real drama, and had Spock kill Edith to keep kirk from bringing her "Back to the Future" (ar-ar). I sent him a copy explaining the problems, and he called me. We spoke briefly, but there was no time for an extended discussion.
are you a writer
Actually I like Mirror better. An evil Pat Mischel just like Capt Kirk. Maybe my life wouldn't have been screwed up. Now I am scrambling out of black hole. Because I am too nice.
Ellison is a God!...William Shatner wanted more lines than Nimoy...wow
Don't believe it. Ellison became evermore bitter about the episode as time went on. Mainly because it was the main reason he continued to be interviewed over the years.
The INFAMOUS Joan Collins episode
Captain Kirk goes to AmeriKKKa and if Hitler wins WW2...............
Yeah - Gene Roddenberry was on SOMETHING...............
Damien, please put down that crack pipe before it's too late.
Harlan with this interview shown just reinforces my intense dislike for him. Thinking arrogantly that he’s so wonderful he can’t change anything. I don’t care how good a writer you think you are, you can always make it better or you can be stubborn and have others rewrite and make it better.
Years ago I was on a writer’s list. It’s no longer around. People wrote short stories, poetry , whatever you wanted. It was a critique site. No one was paid, no one was professional. I was writing a serial at the time and putting stories up. Got praise. One guy said something I never forgot. He said show not tell. But he never elaborated. He gave some criticisms but good ones,not just to criticize. So each new story got better. When he finally said I was showing and not telling I got it. I was in my 40’s at the time and had been dabbling in writing since I was 9. I learned from one teacher that you don’t stop at one rough draft, but not over rewrite so I slowly learned the difference. I also realized that if I couldn’t picture things no one else could and worked hard on scene changes, dialogue describing things. I did it for fun. I learned from that person on that list to show not tell. Judging from Ellison’s attitude he just thought he was all that. He never had to change anything. I think people stroked his ego a bit too much, awards got to his head so he thought he could do no wrong. With writing you never stop learning to do better. If you’re an artist you never stop trying new things, you never stop learning how to do it better.
In that critique list I gave my opinions on one person’s writing. They were suggestions that she could take or leave. If you’re on a critique list you may not hear what you want from others. She got so outraged that she said because of you I’ll never write again! We’ll she wanted to be published. Good for her. But if you submit, you’ll get editing and notes and suggestions. They get paid whether you like the criticisms or not. I said if you want to be a writer you’re always improving or should. And if she couldn’t take my criticisms that she could take or leave, how was she going to handle a professional editor you submit your work to. They don’t care about a fragile ego. Who knows how many rejections and rewrites a published writer or a want to be published writer goes through. It’s part of it. Ellison just seemed the type where he thought he never had to improve, to learn. He just seemed mean to boot.
I was only published once. It was an Edgar Rice Burroughs fan magazine from 1997 I believe. I had just gotten my first computer and was interested in Tarzan and found an ERB site so they said submit a review of a Tarzan story. So I did and it was printed. I still have it and that’s the closest I’ve been to being published. No pay just having it in.
I no longer write I do hobby art. Just for me. I’m always improving, trying new things. Chuck in old ways. I’m not so arrogant that my art can never improve and it has over 26 years. I still try to make it better. No one will buy but they’ll take it for free. I’ll never stop getting better. Writers are only as good as their last story. You can tell the difference between a criticism just to criticize and one really giving suggestions to make it better or improve the next story. Harlan seemed too full of himself. And mean.
Interesting video, I enjoyed watching it. But I've got to tell you, the narration is terrible.
Agreed.
Keep the Next Gen music off this subject.
Star Trek The Motion Picture music actually. Which they later decided to use for The Next Generation.
this guy is the definition of arrogant. he creates a script that obviously isn't suitable for the show and he's bitter about changes?
...and there's nothing left out of his story that'd be missed; in fact it was slightly stupid.
This would be a great video if someone else narrated it. Your presentation skill is too roboric.
Recorded...on a potato...in the loo...by someone who...has no business...narrating anything...
You are of course referring to your own comment. Don't be so hard on yourself, sometimes the greatest inspirations occur in the bathroom.
AHh then you are talking for the gen z kidz and those who do not know about sci fi...w onderd why such wordiness. peace