Are The 'New' KTM 790s Bargain Middleweights?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Fagan samples the latest Chinese-assembled KTM 790 Duke and 790 Adventure in Wales...
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The real question is : Will KTM reliability give Chinese manufacturing a bad name?
Oh you...!🤣😂
Too cruel!
Hahaha
Epic
KTM are utterly reliable… at giving poor aftersales 😜
Bought mine from new, had every service done through ktm, fair weather rider, kept in a climate controlled garage 365, never commuted or taken on track with it and after three years of ownership both large and small end bearings on the connecting rod went leaving me with a £4700 bill to repair 😔 Great brand and great bike but unfortunately it let me down with reliability. Would hate for this to happen to anyone else.
.... what ? What percentage of the original cost to repair 3 years in... ?
That's horrible
Your consumer rights say you should expect any product you buy to last a reasonable amount of time. 3 years is in no way reasonable so you should have been able to claim this from the retailer or reasonable amount pro-rata. Martin Lewis has loads of info on such claims.
Thanks for posting… we need to know this….
@@PDCRedspot on
Haha your Dads version is already out! 😄👏👍
Hi pops 🙋🏻♂
One of the only reviewers that actually acknowledged and stated that it's not 105bhp anymore, it's now 95bhp. Keep up the absolutely fantastic work ❤❤
KTM haven't bought CFMoto, it was a partnership that started years ago with CFmoto building some of KTMs smaller bikes or engines for the eastern market its only since theyve now started building the 790s that its become more known/talked about, im pretty sure part of the deal was also that cfmoto can use the engine designs also and the CFmoto 800's use the 790 engine with a few tweaks.
Exactly. This is nothing new; any Western company that wants to sell their products in China must enter into a partnership with a Chinese company and manufacture the products in China. CFMoto's relationship with KTM is probably the biggest reason they are at the forefront of Chinese motorcycle manufacturers. And it's a partnership, so Chris' claim that KTM isn't getting any money from the sales of these bikes is ridiculous.
And wasn't it Kawasaki that did similar earlyer
What smaller cc KTM did CFmoto make?
@@chriswest2290 they've been involved in the smaller dukes 125/200s for the Chinese market since 2013, I would post a link but TH-cam won't allow it, just search cfmoto KTM partnership and you'll find info.
@@wobblysauceYamaha have recently announced a partnership with CFmoto also.
I bought a Chinese 790 Duke a few months ago, IV owned a GSR 750, XSR900, MT07 and ridden plenty more but the Duke tops the lot, there's nothing wrong with the build quality and so far I've had no issues, absolute bargain!
Give it 12 months.
'so far' says every KTM owner reading this
Ah yes ...1 random internet stranger claims no problems, the reputation must all be wrong....
@@alastairtheduke Lmao that’s facts. Every time I see KTM reliability come the KTM owners say “Well I’ve put 5,000 trouble free miles on my bike and it’s been great!!” 🤣🤣🤣 these KTMs blow up when Japanese bikes are just getting broken in.
The AdvRider forums are the worst. So many fair weather riders with too much money raving about how fantastic their 1290 is after 4 or 5,000 miles.
@@IRLtrolls Lmao what a bunch of bollox... Have a look on a real KTM forum, I don't think there are any regulars on there with less than 50k miles on their 1090/1190/1290s there is dozens of people floating around on even older 950s and 990s... The latest stuff is even more reliable. The reputation is blown out of proportion by salty japanese owners that realise they bought a shit, uninteresting bike for the same price as a KTM and now have to live with it...
Bought a brand new 2023 duke 790 in may. Had an issue with the radiator, so bike has been at the dealer since july... Fun to ride, but I would have bought something else knowing parts are mostly BO
I’d be pushing for a refund, that’s a piss take!
Just picked one up on Monday - very happy.
I have a BMW F 900 R - this made me google it - most BMW engines are built in china by Loncin, and the "bike" is assembled in Berlin
21 MPH
That's 3 points and a stack of cash Sir.....welcome to Wales.
So the CFmoto equivalent that is basically this KTM but with an ipad on it actually sounds tempting now! Would be interesting if you guys could arrange a back to back ride of the KTM/CFmoto to see if theres really a difference.
The back to back is what we all really want to see. I reckon KTM aren’t too keen on giving out press bikes for that purpose though as it’s the most obvious comparison and nobody seems to be doing it
Having read a few comments here, i would just like to point out that the new 790 engine is based on the 890 and NOT on the old 790 gen bikes! Im surprised this is not more well known. Looks have been slightly updated from the previous gen as well. Concerning reliability: unfortunately the old, made in austria, gen doesnt have a white vest. So exciting times for some long time reviews!
Bought a duke with a Tech pack on to keep the miles down on my 1299, absolutely loving it. Been using it for trips around town, uk tours, did 400 miles in one day, no bother, great little road bike and a lot of fun ✊
I live in Shanghai, and Chinese Motorbikes are becoming more and more popular here too, as the prices are way lower than the imported brands. The manufacturers are also improving year by year and could potentially be big contenders in the future!
The place you mentioned as ‘a lovely little place’ is Devil’s Bridge… worth a walk and a dinner 👍
The hidden issue regarding these "Chinese KTM's" is the material quality. The 790 is made of rubbish. I and my colleagues have had to replace cams and cranks in engines with less than forty thousand kilometres. KTM has been covering the warranty claims beyond the warranty period on a case by case basis and claim it's done in good faith however, its only done in good faith when we (mechanics) argue for the customer.
BTW, the 790 has been made in China since its inception and the first lot had porous engine cases.
What about the 890 and the 1290 engines? Are they still built in austria?
@@alexpryce555890 no, also a Chinese bike. Unsure about the 1290
No idea where you get this from... The material in the 890s and 790s is from the same place and the engine is 99% the same, they had manufacturing kinks to iron out, the new 790 engine has more in common with the new 890 (fuelling, heavier flywheel etc) than the original 790. The 890 is one of the most reliable engine platforms on the market right now. And 890s in general have been bulletproof with many less issues than even some of the japanese rivals (looking at tenere 700)
All brands will have failures but KTM's get blown out of proportion... The 890s get better reliability scores than half the equivalent japanese stuff, the 1290s are on an entirely another level.
Where it's assembled is also irrelevant, parts sourcing is still the same and the workers work to the same standards, it's that simple.
@@AntaresSQ01you must have got a golden goose 🪿 the best ktm ever made 😂. There is a group of riders locally that all three 890’s in their group had some sort of failure in the first 20,000km. Ktm are either fantastic and free of problems, or absolute pieces of an!t
@@slakk5093 Classify some "some sort of failure" because i know 2 guys with teneres under 10k miles that cracked their frame... Having an error pop on your dash that goes away after a restart is not a "failure"
But that is true. I suspect KTMs have a high chance of failure out of the factory, but if they survive the first 5k miles without issues, they're bulletproof for the rest of their lives.
I bought a 790 in 2020, don't know if it was built in China but had 22 faults in 24 months and not just minor faults, it broke down leaked oil and water non stop and even the decals peeled off. Brilliant bike to ride but not good to own.
22 faults in 2 years?
Most probably Made in Austria 😁
Nice review. I was riding some of these roads on Tuesday(Elan Valley heading towards Devils Bridge) always entertaining with the added bonus of stunning scenery. I have owned a couple of KTM's and loved them and they were no bother, but I have spoken to plenty of people that have had nothing but hassle with them and KTM don't seem that eager to help sort it. 8:58 Great wild swimming spot!
I worked at a KTM dealer and there's nothing wrong with them. Bloody great and a bargain!!
I noticed you didn’t mention that you spent money on one
I’ve got a 690smcr supermoto full dealer service history and is still an epic ride very fluid through the bends and has bags of torque. Great bike for short or long distances 👍
What is it with all these people and the comments talking about how they haven't had any problems with their KTM and the damn bike doesn't even have 10,000 miles on it yet?
Well, congratulations your one-year-old or 3,000 mile KTM hasn't grenaded the engine or some such. You must be very proud.
I like your style off road Al, keep the speed and let gyroscopic forces help you , I really miss all the off road opportunities in Wales. I used to live at the side of Pembrey racetrack and had mountain trails, a massive forest and 7 miles of hard packed beach or sand dunes if your a massochist. I will never forget racing a seagull along the beach at 80mph, the bird was huge and only 2 metres away from me barely moving its wings with a strong westerley pushing us along. The duke is a very good looking bike and an absolute bargain
All for it, Japanese were considered in the same way when they tried to enter the market and look at them now. Bmw engines: made in China, most Tv,s, phones etc. Out of the Cf motto 800 nk or Ktm 790, I’d have the CF moto, it looks amazing! And this is f of someone who has spent 36 years on Japanese bikes. When I’m due a change I’m considering CF Moto or Benelli TRK 702, which made in China has just smashed Italy’s sales figures! They don’t seem as manufacture snobby as some of us in the UK!
I bought my duke at the end of 2018 and loved it I always serviced it at ktm and it always made me smile apart from the mirrors from the 125. The reliability issues made me sell it after 2.5 years , overheating and a cracked tft that was replaced under warranty or that was £600.then it started to do it again so I got rid of it. My local dealer was great but when you worry you may not get Home from a journey then enough is enough
Oh that's what's at Sweet Lamb! I keep driving past there for the MTB stuff in the area 😀
Heard the CFMoto partnership has been around awhile. CFMoto also released some other bikes in UK which look okay.
The fact that the 790s are assembled in China is unlikely to affect anything in terms of reliability or feel of the bike. For one CFMoto is fairly well established at this point from a manufacturing stand point, and also for better or worse they will most likely be using KTM processes, quality controls, and KTM designed parts. These are the things that most affect quality, reliability, and the feel/nature of a bike.
Are you on glue? 'Just about right enough' is a common theme when manufacturing. I had a buyer of steel from China and the QA measures he had to put in place to prevent corrution were insane. It was every single level, from mill, lab, shipping, export you name it. Maybe things are changing. I hope so.
9:05 I'd put caveat on that. I did 1500 miles in romanian alps on an 890 duke and I bloody f- loved it... greatest trip of my life. Absolute weapon. Very natural comfy seating position and unless you're cruising above 90mph for extended periods it's perfectly fine wind protection. fuel range is insane... Hooning it around I was still getting over 60mpg, close to 200 miles form the 890s measly 14 liter tank.... what a machine..
My brother had 1 it was a bag of shit! In twice for pissing coolant out the hoses then twice for oil leaks
CFMOTO has a mutual aggreement with Ktm and now Yamaha also to build smaller capacity bikes in its factory in China. I own a Cfmoi 800mt and think it is built very well and runs and rides better than a KTM i traded for it. Alot of brands are utilising asian markets to produce bikes, either for cost, or market accessibility reasons. I do not care where it is made, the important thing is that the quality is up to par.
What I do not like is when say, Triumph, for example, build bikes in Thailand but still price bikes at a high premium and not passing on any savings in production. Well in Australia anyway.
Great vid, China made is always causes a debate for some reason. Not sure why, almost everything is, are we all then hypocrites, we all buy chinese made daily.
Bike and car prices are ridiculous these days. I like when manufactures build quality items at reasonable prices. Companies like CFmoto is a good example of this.
New 44Teeth video is 22:22 minutes long, 22+22=44, coincidence? I think not
Quick maths
Yeah and the suspension cost £1444.44😮 !!! It’s £1600+++
acording to my KTM dealer this now 790 is replacing the 890 as that is getting dropped from the KTM line, im still enjoying my 2020 790 absolutley wicked bike.
I think it's time for me to book a test ride.
I never use all of the power of my GSX-S1000 and i would love something more nimble!
My Austrian 890AR's WP suspension was awful (harsh, and said to be made in India) so I ended out paying almost £2800 decent cartridges and a shock. Would have been better to buy the Chinese version in the first place.
The only downside to this is the KTM is £6998 (I’m sure there’s a £1 coin down the back of the sofa!) more than I can afford 😢
Seems to me they're doing this to take advantage of the A2 market. 95bhp instead of 105bhp means it can be restricted down to an A2 license and making them cheaply means young people can afford them.
where were these roads in Wales.. and that Gucci Chalet?
Excellent show last night plus where did you find the chalet you were staying in and good luck for brand Hatch this weekend
Many major motorbike components, especially KTMs, are already made in China. Will assembling them there as well under KTM supervision make a big difference to quality and reliability? Time will tell.
Great review as always, Al! :) I'm a bit older than you but I think have a similar riding style and find your channel as one of the best for reviews because you show and describe so well how a bike "feels" to ride! :) Not many other channels discuss things like "weight transfer" and "side grip" etc - bravo, keep up the good work!! :) I would say, it doesn't matter where a bike is made (though I DO like to TRY and buy local wherever possible), it's about what spec it's made to and who is doing the QC. IMO CFMoto have an upcoming rep anyway, but these bikes are made to KTM specs and QC, so I'd buy one with no qualms on that front! :) (I *would* like an 890R with WP Apex suspenders though as that looks like a hoot (as a 2nd bike to my MT10 ;) :) :D )). Thanks again, see you at the London BBB7 showing :D
So where was that glamping cottage? Looks great!
As a 390 duke owner, I am seriously tempted by the 790.
Likewise
Has anyone got half a mind to clip the footage of the Red Kia that nearly wipes out the group at 12:44 and send it to the Welsh police?! That was nearly fucking lethal
A duke 390 owner here. They're great fun but damn if I will buy another KTM.
what went wrong?
Bought my 17 plate 390 as a second bike too, been reliable and handles like nothing else, very peaky and lacks grunt but strangely that's all part of the fun.
I had a close look at a CF Moto 800MT last month. Excellent build quality and incredible package. Superb service and advice. Great price. Nothing wrong with their products but as Chris says, do you want to support Europe or do you want to save a few quid?
I want to support Japan and get a 8S
2:12 Visceral's the word you're looking for there Nige.
Always a great video, cheers guys.
Would this be better than a used 890 Duke though?
(I.e. same price)
Devils Bridge and Fish Hill - that's a decent route KTM picked 😎
Pretty sure the 790 duke is replacing the base model 890. So the 890 R and 890GP will be the only offering in the 890 platform.
The point about supporting the UK economy when making purchases is all fine and right on, but unfortunately it’s not like when buying something there’s a big neon sign that says “Made in China” on the product page to even enable that decision..
I imagine they are building this one in China to sell to the Chinese and get a better foothold in their market. I think they can sell it cheaper there if it is built there
A lot of bike for the money, but a lot of money for a Chinese bike!
Cf moto have come along way in recent years I think people said that when Japan was making motorcycles in the seventies and look how that ended up .
My Duke 890R leaked oil immediately off the showroom floor and one of the leaks fixed the other was a normal leak they all do that. never again KTM. Sold every KTM I owned after that warranty fiasco.
I knew it was you Al! Me and a mate saw you at the Craig Goch Dam. I was on the white R1200RS. 😁👍🏼
You should have said hello 😂
@@FortyFourTeeth I saw you were filming drone stuff so thought-better not. 😊 Enjoyed the video. 👍🏼 Wales was good (Apart from Storm Agnes on Wednesday). ☹️ Go Team 44Teeth at Brands!
12:44 at this time he knew he f$&@#d up.
"Far more fun" when it's not in the KTM dealership getting fixed, again.
So, this or a Tenere 700? Also, on the being made in China part; do we know if the materials, production process and quality control, and warranty are the same as the Austrian made models?
Do these have the anti consumer paywall?
Agile in my opinion equals instability at speed.
Research the Gen 1 SD, I did and Yamaha’s MT was sooo much better
Great perspective on the review of a decent motorcycle mate
Under 100bhp is just not enough, you will soon want more, i rode for 7 years a 20 bhp bike than I switched to a 650 thinking it would be enough for a few years and half a year went by i already want more
Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse for someone who bought the 790 when it first came out, now this. What a resale nightmare lol
I'd love the 790 stock version, even if it's made in China.
Why not buy a second hand ‘original’ 790 Duke with 105 hp (vs. 95 hp in this version) and full electronic package for less money?
The fact that KTM lowered it's power output is a good sign. It can be a possibility of 2 things:
1. Engine components are heavier and more durable (heavier materials result in Lower overall power output)
2. ECU is updated with a lower maxed RPM. Probably for reliablity purposes as well.
@@JinKazama92thanks but I think that the decrease in power is purely related to making the engine suitable for the A2 license, which is capped at 95 hp if I am correct
That sheep did not give a fuck 😅
Im gonna digress from this video, been thinking about this after going on holiday,.
Which is faster down the airport runway? Bike or Jumbo Jet (no passengers)?
Fell out with KTM brand big time. Had the original 790 and went to get a new 890. Deal practically done until I was told that after 600 miles, the “tech-pack” would be deactivated and I would have to pay close to £1000 to reactivate it. WTF ? Needless to say I told them to send the bike back to Austria. 😂
Them roads look good. What part of welsh Wales was it al
The bit of crap she’ll grip you went through on a44 on the vid after Leominster …if you turn left head to Builth wells that is the 100 house rd …. It’s a corka…..just saying
That adventure version looks great craic for £10K
How livable is it? Like if you come only have 1 bike is it worth looking at this vs the ST 765, or like a gsxs
The cfo Moto adventure bike I believe uses the 790 engine
22 mins , 22 seconds, was that deliberate 44 teeth
it was cool seeing you on revzilla
Congrats on 300k subs dudes. If there was any justice itd be 3 million. But hey ho.
If KTM had included all the electronics as standard like they did with the original 790 Duke, it might have been the bargain people keep saying it is but they didn't. So now you pay what I paid for my 2020 790 Duke but you get 10 less hp and the electronics taken off you after a few miles. Its not really a bargain. It's just a good bike for average money.
no. now you pay lesser than a 2020 new without the electronics package.
Where is that stay at 9:35 🤩 that looks amazing
Im tempted due to the crazy low monthlies on a pcp
Okay... so how much more than the cf Moto 800nk when you actually compare equal specs aka all the ridiculous add on extras from KTM that should already be on the bike ? This literally just moves all of my concerns about the 800nk underneath KTM plastics....
Some of the lower cc Dukes are made in India, right?
Stop equating buying an iPhone as the same thing as buying an internal combustion engine motorcycle.....
12:43 that was ridiculously close...
Deserved a mirror smack 👊
Is the seat better on the 790 adv?
Which part of Wales is this?
I don't think it matters where the bike is assembled, the parts are still coming from China or similar places.
Cheap way to buy a bike eligible for the Sportbike Championship in '24
People used to birch about the advent of Japanese motors back in the day, and look where we are now
There are certain members of society that will always think a certain way, generation after generation
The Japanese people are of the Übermensch type, while, in contrast, the chinx are the Untermensch. Yep, that's what socialism does to you.
Very true
When it was about Japan, the only real worry was quality. With China, there is a lot more reasons to not support the chinese economy, however good the quality is.
As an imperialist, the answer is no resolute no to anything coming out of the CCP🤧🤧🤧
Well, it’s a dictatorship. There’s that, I guess. Human rights abuses. La la la. But I get my bike slightly cheaper, so swings and roundabouts!
I owned the original 790 Duke. Bet this one is an improvement on quality etc
Don’t bet too much. They never fixed/recalled rocker arm issues on the older lc4 engines. And it took them alllll the way to 2021 to recall their crap clutch slave cylinder gasket even tho it was known for years.
@@HeyAddieImTojo Did they even improve the slave? I put a Rekluse in my 701 Vitpilen when the slave started leaking at 2900mi.
@@HeyAddieImTojo you have no idea what you're talking about. KTM updated the rocker arm for a few years until 2017. 2019 LC4 got the new redesigned valve train which completely resolved the rocker arm issue. I have the 2010 690 SMC.
@@JinKazama92 listen to yourself. You do realize how many years it took??😂
@@mfennell70 Yeah, the slave went because of a rubber seal that was made of a type of rubber that chemically didn’t withstand the fluid.
KTM has done a very good job of scrubbing the internet about the horrible failures with the 790 engine. That’s why they immediately made the 890. But they have a ton of 790 blocks left over so they pushed it to china to take the blame when they fail after 20-30,000 miles
Theres cheap solutions made in Japan. Yhe honda and suzuki. They Are arguably better and more upto date bike.
Chris made a good point about the politics/morality consideration when buying a product. Now, some of us can all say that politics doesn't influence our decisions, but I can guarantee that we all inevitably end ranting about a politically-influenced problem at some point.
Personally, I've made efforts to avoid Chinese manufacturing for some time (this mobile phone that I'm typing on, is made in Thailand (and it's very good, too)).
Supporting European and Western (politically anf commercially Japan amd S. Korea more or less fall into this category) is a good thing.
I don't like it when manufacturers ship some or all production out to China, then keep the prices up. I'm not fussed on paying for onboard tech through a subscription basis either, but that's another matter.
*Grumbling terminated...for now.
Just sold my 890 duke had to, it was either sell it or have it stolen by the kind considerate feral bastards kids that we have roaming our local area
All the engine parts are made in China, some are assembled (made)in Austria and some in China. Quality is the same.
Sometimes I really love you Chris! Spot on.
So long as KTM stand behind their product, the price is to good to not buy one of you want a bargain KTM. I’d have one
The 790 was poorly manufactured at launch and nothing has changed, The warranty work was never ending with them.
If its the same parts, made from the same materials and QC to the same standards or better, then its just cheap labour saving money surely?
Instinctively I'd trust the build quality of the Chinese bikes more than Austrian. I'll be interested in seeing the data on reliability. If it's the same, we know it is just poor initial design.