The Truth About the 2023 Civic Type R
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- Honda flew us to the Napa Valley California to drive the new 2023 Civic Type R on the street and track. I got to drive this thing at Sonoma Raceway! I really enjoyed the car, and I'm not just saying that because Honda flew us out. I was already biased towards Honda long before. But let me tell you my thoughts about the car...
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We finally got one in stock at a local dealership. My heart was broken when I saw the $25,000 “market adjustment” fee. $75,000 for a CIVIC! Dealerships killed the Focus RS and they’re gonna kill the Type R. Remember, they sell loans not cars.
hahaha, F that!
Imagine paying 75k for a Civic. And you know people will... jfc
The price is insane even if they are betting on JDM nostalgia. 75k is "Maybe I'll go import a skyline" money.
@@TheEnriqueSpeed It's not even a maybe. 75k will get you a really clean R32 GTR with 20k left for whatever you want
What kind of dealer markups were you guys seeing for the RS? I was seeing around $9-10K in Hawaii.
In my opinion the worst thing about it is the dealerships marking it up. For 70k you can get a whole different level of car then a civic. No matter what new features it has it couldnt be justified spending that amount of money. It also wont ever be in stock due to the demand and only the "rich" or broke boys making the worst financia descision will cop these. They ruined it for a regular joe.
For sticker I’d go buy one today. With the ADM dealers will charge I’d rather buy an RS3 like my old one I had
Agree, the more recent civics are far from the original concept. No shit here in Italy they are even more rare than the old ones, most likely for the prices and the fact that there are cheaper and equally fun, if not more, options. A Hyundai I30N or a Yaris GR are far more convenient for our market, and cost almost 10k less of a Civic Type R
@@_Suzuka_Joe That car is sooo amazing to drive. Guy I bought a dirtbike from marketplace drove me to get gas in it and let me be in the driver seat back to his house its super smooth and makes all the right noises. His was stock too.
Agree. For 70K, you could get an M2/M3 or Porsche Cayman. German cars sell for MSRP right now.
Amen
What a waste of R&D time. This car will never be obtainable to be what it was meant to be (affordable performance). People with disposable income will buy them and keep them in garages while targeted demographic will have to settle for TH-cam videos. This is a USA problem to be clear, not world problem. Only USA has aggressive laws protecting dealers and mandating they exist without any control. It boggles my mind that the company who made the car is powerless in preventing their customers from being ripped off. People who made the car said this car costs $44K but we have to give it to a third party who had nothing to do with R&D so they can add $25K mark up to line their pockets before our customers can have it. If you think about it, it is quite insane.
It's the consequences of the petrodollar lol
Oh trust me, it's the problem the US has exported to a lot of places in the world.
Its a shame, but not a waste of R&D. The car will do exactly what it's meant to: enhance the perceived appeal and sporting credibility of the Civic, helping them sell the regular versions and attract enthusiasts to their brand.
I paid 52k for my FK8 - it has 640hp now and I drive it everyday. Ill be buying an FL5 when prices settle down a bit - its everything I love about the FK8 plus fixes most of the issues the FK8 had on track.
Its also the last ICE Type R, made in Japan, collectors car basically. Japan has to fill over 10,000 orders - the demand is sky high for this one
@@TheFK8Life I really hope the price settles down close to 50K as you mentioned, but we'll see.
It was great seeing you guys! Killed it as always.
TDIB/G&G crossover when? (Not counting the cameo in your Type r Vid)
I finally saw both sides of the drive 😂
got dusted, blue dude
Best car channel 🔥🔥🤘🤘
I'm super stoked Honda not only continues to make affordable every day sports cars (dealer markups notwithstanding), but it's MANUAL ONLY! If I didn't already have a good DD and weekend car combo, I'd be very interested in a new Si. If I had the budget, I'd be fighting tooth and nail to get an FL5 Type R. This, the 86 and the Miata are keeping the dream alive for those who don't have a 6 figure salary.
How do you figure the type r falls into the "those who don't have a 6 figure salary" category. Dealerships doing 25k mark ups makes this car unreasonably priced.
@@HenryBrawlins For Americans unfortunately yes, but for many of us outside the US it is priced for the hard working man.
@@maquettemusic1623 in Canada we have mark ups too but not even close to what I’ve seen in the states so far
I love when you said “it’s functional, and you can’t hate that”
So very true. You can’t hate functional. Even the most balls out track cars, still look good. Function is an aesthetic of its own
Exactly. One good "function = form" example I can think of is a drift car's camber setup: Negative front + zero/positive rear.
Looks weird to the average person, but totally natural in the drift scene.
It's just unfortunate that dealerships have marking them up an insane amount, I hope no one settles for any of these insane markups
There will be those with more money than sense.
Affordability and availability probably put this and the Corolla GR out of reach for most of us. I went with a BRZ since it was obtainable for me at MSRP. Your insights are valuable and unique due to your seat time and experience and are much appreciated.
When i seen the markups for both i said to my self i might as well just buy a tlx for less and a damn lexus rx for these crazy ass markups, this shit one of the same reasons why the focus rs didnt sell well in the us.
The worst part is they'll say "demand is low in the US", but if they could produce x5 as many they would still sell out. I waited for the Type R and was willing to buy it under $50k, but that's proving impossible.
I am also now on the list to buy a GR86 and BRZ whichever one of the MSRP dealers near me have first.
@@takeit1229 why not get a Camaro it’s faster than the type r n cheaper. The 2010 ss runs a faster time than the new fl5 at Suzuka racetrack which is crazy lol
@@ll.7927 The SS 1LE is faster, but without the package the base SS is probably about the same on most tracks for the same MSRP. No way the 2.0t is comparable.
Biggest difference is you can get it for closer to MSRP, so fair point.
Maybe they've changed quite a bit, but the last time I drove one was from 12 years ago and while fast in a straight line it was messy on handling.
Unfortunately still mark ups for the GR86 in my area right now :( but I’m happy people are finding them at MSRP!
Savage geese said it best when they told us the car is def worth sticker but not a penny more for sure. Honda needs to do something about this dealership markup issue. I don't see them moving too many units in this crappy recession.
They are great cars but the dealership are killing us with the markups. I knew they will have a crazy mark up that’s why I got a 22 si back in February
Can't even compare the two but yea. The R is just bonkers expensive
Good review man! I just picked up my FL5 a week ago and really enjoying and NO I did not pay the $20k markup on top of MSRP, just $5K
What dealer did you get it from?
@@CGM350 El Centro Honda. I'm from San Diego
$5k is still too much.
The fact that you "only" paid 5k markup IN CALI is an achievement... I personally would never pay over MSRP.. but that's not terrible for a highly sought after car
disclaimer at the beginning couldn't be more transparent! thanks for the honesty!
They need to put this thing on 18s and then start cracking down on greedy dealers
I agree, however I do wonder if they’d fit,, around the brakes 🤷
I just purchased a 2018 honda civic diesel. In white with black accents. Most of the optional extras and I am completely in love with it. It's not fast by any means, but I can't help but love everything about it
G&G video in 6 months: I sold my STi for a Civic Type-R
probably another engine failure to trigger that buying of new CTR hehe
Ohh jesus... this guy and video workmanship deserve 5mil subscribers! Come on guys! this channel deserve so much better!!! Huge fans from Indonesia
Every dealership in SoCal LA area has a 20-25k markup. Was so excited for this car, dealerships suck.
This car needs an aftermarket "OEM" rear wing. The one you get now seems aftermarket 😂
If they painted the wing section white it wouldn't be so bad
Yeah they should've stuck with the HPD wing from the Civic Sport Touring. That looks way better.
Civics stopped being good looking cars decades ago. It doesn't matter what you throw at it so might as well use what's functional. 🤷♂
That wing is god awful 😢😢
"My nearly 30 year old car is faster with less hp, but this car is great bro!" Thanks Honda for sponsoring this video.
His 30 year old car is literally a race car that can't be driven on the road and he probably spent more on that than what the new type-r will cost. The new Type-r doubles as a fantastic trouble-free road car that can be daily'd with a factory backed warranty. What's your point?
Great video, car is amazing, even if we're all we're fanboys. Too bad nobody can afford it because markup is between 24-40k right now :) Shame, would've loved to have it as my next car, but I guess I'm looking at Mazda3, Civic SI as my replacement daily driver. Even markup on the SI isn't great, but better than 70 or 80K for a Type R.
Don't ask why this flopped and nobody bought a manual practical enthusiast car. It was never the car. I was here to buy it, until I couldn't afford it. Maybe in 10 years?
Idk where u are but u can find manual integras for around msrp if you don't want to pay markup for an Si
Exactly. Manufacturers will say there is no demand for performance models, but that's because their dealerships have gone off the rails. The markups are criminal.
@@andyzedd3236 People are actually paying the insane markups though. At least in Southern California.
The markups are insane, but there's nothing Mazda has that's even remotely close, and a Civic Si is a massive step down
I wanted to buy one of these. Talked to the dealer about it once I heard the markup. I walked away. Out the door cost would have been 70-80k. Picked up a Mk8 GTI at sticker instead. Honda needs to crack down on their dealers. They should threaten to stop sending them cars if they markup. That’d put a quick stop to it.
That's a nice looking Accord Sportsback!
Yeah honestly the sloped hatch styling of this gen hasn't really grown on me. I get that the over-styling of last gen was a bit polarizing, but now it just seems like they went so far back to "sleek" that it looks boring.
I love the Gran Turismo style background music in this one, going along with the garage scene the car's in reminds me of the good ole' GT days :)
I have a 2021 STI stage 2 and I run e85 when needed I took out all the seats the rugs the ac the stereo door panels speakers gutted the trunk and sit on a milk crate talk about weight reduction ill see you on the road soon Type R
I like the styling on this one way better than the FK8. The FK8 is what alien vs. predator would be if it was a car
😂😂
Great review from someone with real experience 👏
The truth: IT WON'T' SELL
Bc dealers demand $30k+ !!! (no joke) mark-ups, compared to other $70k+ cars it's just bad and uncompetitive.
Dealers would rather sell a single one with $30k mark-up than ten with $2k mark-up.
Because of the low sales numbers Honda (and others) will think there is no market for cars like this, so they won't bring any other sporty models to the market ever again. Also they will make this even more expensive bc at lower sales numbers they need more profit per car.
All because of a few IDIOTS who pay insane prices, they ruin it for everyone! This neesds to stop!
I'm pretty sure those idiots are all youtubers/content creators.
It's unfortunately already selling at 20k markups at some dealerships.
The first Gen Type R also sold for huge markups, especially early in the release phase. And here we are with the 2nd Gen. Markups suck, but there’s only like 500 Type Rs in the entire North America region yet, just gotta be patient.
the mark-up will go down once more shipment comes in. right now most dealers only get 1-3 units per delivery and even with the mark-up, they still go out fast.
The problem is, they are selling with the markups. I’ve called 5 dealerships near me. People are paying the insane price.
glade you had fun with the event but if i had to pick between spending the money for a front wheel drive eco box that gets 28 to 328 MPG and my 20 year old sports car that also gets 18 to 28 (depending how its driven) and is rear wheel drive that cost 10,000 ima pick the same one i already have.
nothing on these newer cars make them appealing to me.
safety? doesnt matter
all the creature comforts all the idiots need not important all i need is AC/heat and a working radio.
Honda listened to the public on the design but not the dealer mark ups😅
I just don’t see what all hype is about especially at 70K…. I’m an S2000 guy and Honda did that car right!
Down with the dealership model and let’s move to the Tesla model of buying these cars online with the options you want with NO markups
I hate markups as well but if we get rid of dealers if you don't like the price that the manufacturer is selling for you can't go to a different one for the same car you want.
@@SasukeUchiha-zu6dw If the manufacturer sets the price then the dealer's prices would have to be competitive.
Flawless Vidja work guys, loved the review as well. I sure would not mind seeing more of them!
I literally got chills watching the intro.
I love my 9th gen Civic Si and hope to drive it for decades to come, but if someone in a BMW, Mercedes, or Audi rear ends me, I now know which car I'm upgrading to.
Keep up the content guys!
The one car I would consider selling my 2021 STI for, assuming I could ever find one at MSRP (which I'm sure will be impossible).
Definitely need a purchase for this channel xx
i loved this video. loved the type r, loved the review. more like this!!
Great video guys. I'm glad you guys are stepping into the car review section. We've had time to grow with you guys, and it's good to see you guys keep growing! Keep it up!
Nothing subtle about the spoiler even in black. But styling wise, it looks more “adult”. The FK8 is a great performing car but I just couldn’t get over the “boy racer” styling. Nice vid.
Its a civic its supposed to be a boy racer…
👏👏👏❤️ PRODUCTION TEAM 👏👏❤️.. HAVE A BEAUTIFUL DAY EVERYONE ✌️
Friend just bought the new Z for less then my other friend bought his Civic because of the markup. But I won’t take from how good of a job Honda did. I hate this new generation BRO TAX that all cars have. I can’t even buy another 240sx cuz people who know nothing about them want to sell them for more then what they are worth.
What are your real impressions Ben? Maybe you can’t say, a deep comparison with the EK to get around the waiver. Will have to let the $25k markup subside before I’d consider it.
That looks way too bouncy. Looks like it could disrupt the weight a bit on chicanes after running the rumble strips. Or any turn with bumps before it.
Absolutely. Suspension is way too stiff. It needs coilovers
I notice that too. There's a few other channels who say the same thing
The biggest annoyance is the 35k mark up these crooked dealerships are marking up these cars.Imagine paying 75k for a Civic
Believe it or not, there are plenty of dumbass people doing it 😂
I wanna see what Ben's would do with the current out going NSX and see some track action with it. That car needs some love hidden gem IMO
I want one real bad.. but I'd have to sell all the cars I have to be able to afford one, and I don't think that's worth doing..
Hey maybe they will come down in price, I know that in Canada a 2017 can range from 160K to 200K CDN, I think with that lack of respect the car has now, it def could get to 100K - 120K once the used market cools off.
Nice SuperFastMatt intro, good touch.
Good to hear so much positivity towards the new Type-R.
Now to find one without $20,000 in mark ups. (:
Top tier content as always. And it was cool to see TDIB make an appearance.
I’ll probably stick with my FK8 even tho i like the FL5.
Front looks nice, back looks like a insight
Type R badges never disappoint 😊
I love the way 11th gen Si and Type R look.
How functional is the spoiler?
I’d much prefer a more stealthy look, without it.
Somebody please teach Ben how to wear an open face helmet 😅
My only problem with this car is the fake engine sound in +R mode that you can’t turn off, and the price is a bit steep
Greatings from 🏴 Still keeping my fk8 .
Its amazing how honda fixed all the criticisms of the previous Type R
Great car, but not affordable to the people that really want it , dealer new me marked it up 25,000$. Enjoyed the review G&G
I was considering getting one but the mark up is more than what my C5 corvette cost and I’m having a lot of fun with it so 🤷♂️ 🤣
Your in Sonoma, not Napa. The city of Sonoma is about 10 miles north on Hwy 116. Napa, which is on Hwy 29, just has a more famous name, and is about 15-20 miles east of Sonoma , winding thru vineyards on Hwy 12. The Civic is eh, fwd🚫. Not to mention, stealers are adding 'market adjustments' to make them ludicrously expensive
bens already thinking about buying one and turning it into his new racing platform
Dealerships have ruined the hype around new cars. Unfortunately even cars like this are out of reach of the common person.
9:11 Ben's ford escort sinking deeper into obscurity once again lmao
Ok, we're waiting for you guys driving a miles again with Ben Tall ehhh, Hahaha i hope Type R this timeeee🔥
Best all around car on the market and can fit a rear facing car seat with ease 😊
For the price not even close
I was waiting for this review
70k for a civic , let that sink in😂😂😂
And still slower than the previous one LOL
Literally can buy a Z or mustang with 400hp for like 45k lol
@@Maddo89 wrx is not on the same level
That shiftknob boot is not correct in the intro. 2:28 Boot should be flush to the knob. Looks like they double nutted it? That's what my dealer did. The car shipped without a knob for whatever reason (or someone stole it). They ordered a new knob and weren't sure how to install it. They stuck the nut on AND the knob. However the original nut was still in the boot. I didn't realize that at first, I was like eh whatever I just want to get it home then I'll fix it. Spent a half hour fixing it when I got it home. Kind of a pain since the nut does not release easily. Just putting that out there. Other wise, yes great car! The only thing I really regret is the markup! lol
Good review 👍🏻
The truth is that it's perfect! The dang markup criminal tho. I want one and I'm rdy to pick one up BUT not at 70k 🥴
High powered electric scooters > Monthly payments, insurance, people parking next to your FL5 in a EMPTY parking lot... it's the wolf king GT for me 🤘🏿
This and the new gr corolla are excellent breaths of fresh air for this genre of car enthusiasts. But the people who can really appreciate it and want to own and enjoy it for what it was made for, 80% can’t afford because of the fucking mark ups
All any of us can hope for is that Honda keeps listening to the public and keeps producing quality cars that we all would enjoy driving! As always great job G&G,please keep em coming
Problem is, they won’t produce drivers cars at prices for people to drive. This car will be a garage Queen. It’s like land rovers being made to off-road. You don’t see them on the trail because they are too expensive for the very thing they are made to do
See Subaru, this is how you release a new version of a legendary name, not what you did... This Type R is a looker and a goer, I need one! =)
(For those who may not have seen, Subaru released the new Impreza this week... It was bad...)
This was great to see! Always loved those cars but the markup is not justified for me. Still passing a few on track but in my volvo C30 that’s driver mod haha Hitting Sonona Raceway for my first time this saturday. Wish me luck!
It looks like Honda FINALLY made a properly fast accord.
Honda needs to make these hella moreeeeeee
Why can't they make a 3 door Type R again 😔
Like I'm not saying this gen is bad per say, but I'm still sad. I've only driven one Type R in my life, a JDM Integra Type R, and yes it's been said by literally everyone, it was fantastic. I just wish we could get something more akin to that then the 4 door Civic Type Rs. I think that's where the design was just given up on
Fact - dealerships are killing the auto industry with their insane markups. For this money (as if I could spend that much on an effing CAR) I’d buy a new RS3 that will run circles around the Type R. And probably have a little money left over …
the mazda miata is proof we can still get those gems under 3k'lb's, manufactures just need to try like they used to.
70k is absurd.
I’d be interested in one at sticker but for that money a mid engine 500hp C8 vette is the obviously better car to buy.
but sits only 2.. :P
I like the new generation Civic type R because it's a lot more subtle
Please do longer videos. I like your content too much but I’m glad now you are putting 2 videos weekly 🤜🏾
They should redesign everything behind the B pillar and I'm in. Either take out 2 doors OR add AWD. That rear glass and C pillar makes no damn sense.
I love this channel.
It should be 2 door hatch though. Not a mini station wagon lol
me personally don't like the taillights but its still very COOL
"Everything about this car, I love so far." Have you seen the facelift 9th gen Accord recently? Very similar bodylines.
Last gen Type R was way better looking. The reason they changed the styling so dramatically, was because they admit that old people, within Honda & customers, complained that it was "too wild". Lol whatever. I like Honda. But they nerfed the looks on this one. Last gen is gonna be a classic someday. This one will be forgotten.
front is looking rather good but further back the worst ... back side and second half of side profile is really bad ;[
New civics look huuuuge
Do you think the fact that it’s only offered in stick shift will dissuade some buyers who’d have preferred an 8-speed auto with paddle shifters?
When the R starts delivering to dealerships, maybe you then be able to get an Si for MSRP.
I love this car...but I love more this Honda Type R logo t-shirt 😍. Where can I buy it???
Meanwhile here in my country the normal c8 corvette has a 6 times price mark up
Can’t wait to see Ben going on a road trip in one 😅🔥🔥
i think the back wing will grow on people for sure
Great video. Man you're bouncing all over the place. Was the suspension dialed in?
If you can afford a $20k-$30k ADM on a $45k car, wouldn’t you just buy a car worth $65k+?
Agreed, the markups have it close to the price of a BMW M3. I's rather have that over a FWD Honda Civic.
Yes but real Honda fanboys who have the ability to pay it will pay it. Then ruin it for the people who can’t pay the mark up. Not realizing a lot of people who can’t afford the mark up are fanboys as well.
@@andyzedd3236 BMW M3 is unreliable garbage. I'd rather have a nice Lexus or Genesis for 65K
Bad financial decisions will be the legacy of this vehicle.
because that car will also be $35-$45k marked up lol
Color grading in this video very good
Another way to beat dealer markups (assuming car companies can’t do anything to dealers and it’s killing cool cars) is by producing a lot of that particular model. So it wouldn’t be so rare and dealers wouldn’t feel a need to markup. When it’s ultra limited they try and make as much money as possible outta them whereas they can make just as much or even more by selling a whole bunch because they sell like hot cakes by the looks of the complaints on comments.