The Craziest Honda Ever Is The 2023 Honda Civic Type R | First Drive Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- With a whopping 315 horsepower being sent to just the front wheels, the new 2023 Type R is the kind of bonkers only Honda could produce. Other companies try and complicate things with all wheel drive, dual clutch transmissions or mild hybrids, but the Civic is a pure FWD hot hatch complete with 6-speed manual. 0-60 times should hover around 5-seconds, if you're willing to roast the clutch, and with 265-width summer tires on all four corners, it sticks like glue... Assuming it's dry and you don't romp on the go-pedal in a corner. Fun? You betcha. Rare? For sure. Crazy markups? Yep, that too...
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0:00 - Introduction
1:50 - How wide is the wide-body?
3:54 - The new 315 HP R engine
5:10 - Seat comfort
7:05 - Practical cargo area'
7:45 - Interior design
12:26 - How does it drive?
20:16 - How much does it cost?
21:54 - Type R vs WRX, Golf R, Elantra N and more - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Stealerships ruin the vehicle by making it unobtainable
They going for at least $60k here in socal
TL;DR Amen, brother - stealerships suck.
As much as pricing is a function of supply/demand pressures, after some point these markups are so excessive that it just kills the ideal of a “hot hatch”.
Even more generally, the profiteering on everyday vehicles (especially on the lower end, where these are oftentimes utilitarian purchases for folks who need to transport their families) is predatory, and ruins the brand image of “everyman” brands like Honda.
Personally, even as the car market shows signs of cooling down and MSRP is more common, I’m still willing to drive an extra 50 miles to purchase from the dealership that didn’t try to rake me over the coals, because human decency should still count for something these days.
There is only a 500 unit initial US allocation with 10000 going to japan in year 1. If you were serious about buying this, wait 1 year.
Agreed
@@SasquatchsCousin33 That's the actually allocation for the first year? Seems very low for the Americas as I am assuming it includes Canada and other places. Any info on how many Europe got?
“Full bodied, like I am” - Why Alex is the best! 😂😂😂
18:55 is so funny to me, never seen Alex juggle his words and his humor was spot on
I wish consumers would STOP paying over MSRP, it only benefits the dealers and encourages them to continue the practice.
And drive what meanwhile? A horse?
@@afcgeo882 like there is a shortage of cars lol goofy
@@DeonCHD There are honest dealers if you're willing to look for them. I've bought 3 new cars in the past year with zero markup
I'm interested at the MSRP of $45K. At $10K to $15K over sticker, forget it.
Even 45k is too much for this car, honda is milking it
Nice to see Alex spending more time with his son. Very wholesome indeed @7:15 =)
Alex you're hillarious, the "night night brian" killed me 😂😂
Integra type S with SH-AWD and ventilated seats please!
That's the ticket.
That would be great but given the integra is already $45k, they’ll by asking $55k. $60k plus with options.
At that price I’ll go for an M340x, or an Audi S4.
If only Golf R got rid of the haptic interface…
“Only cucks pay for mark ups” - Sun Tzu
I ike how you guys had a discussions in the end of the video comparing to other cars in this price point. Very helpful. I am keeping my banana yellow full bodied FK8 Type R :)
I love this, the GR Corolla, and the Golf R but with the markups and horrible experiences I’ve had with Honda and Toyota dealerships, and VW’s infotainment system, & VW and Hyundai;s long term reliability, I’m starting to lean toward the Subaru WRX. My wife and I are on our second Crosstrek and have had nothing but great experiences with our Subaru Dealer, and they don’t markup.
The AWD and mountain road handling of the WRX for 10K less before markup doesn’t make financial sense for like 30-40 HP more.
I went with a base 2022 WRX for $33,000CAD (was interested in the Sport model $38,000CAD for the amenities but a base was available now with no wait). Test drove:
2022 GLI $35,000CAD
Tires are the biggest let down…why VW, why?
2022 Si $36,000CAD
The 1.5L turbo is so outclassed in this group it’s depressing. Detuned 2.0L turbo from the accord would have been more appropriate
2022 BRZ $37,000CAD
Still pretty slow, still overpriced
2022 Elantra N $40,000CAD
Great seats and tires, great exhaust, everything else is Hyundai…too bad. Way too pricey
The WRX is a lot of fun and ends up a bargain. The Type R has already been listed by an individual that apparently has secured one…asking $90,000CAD for his car once delivered. WTF
You are mostly right on except subaru's reliability not any better than hyundai, subaro trannys are horrible. I'd take my chances with the hyundai N cars at least they have a long warranty and are way more fun to drive.
Good video review improvements with the assistant 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Loved the Brian addition! Funny, and fun!
I think the split in the seat base is for the addition of a 6pt harness, or an anti-submarine belt. (Crotch belt)
hey you didn't mention anything about the driving experience compared to the FK8 (i only heard about being more grown up which I assume you meant the exterior). Does it still kinda drive the same as FK8 or it's more buttoned down and stiffer? I was the same boat as most of you that hate front wheel drive, but the FK8 changed my mind as the suspension was well sorted and the front wheel drive actually makes the FK8 spritelier when compared to all the all-wheel drive competitor (STi, Golf R, Evo, etc. that I drove).
Live in PNW and thr GR corolla Circuit Edition would be my ideal choice however looks more like a core with performance is the reality. I'm on the list since April and hopefully I just get anything coming.
other options are great but for me, Type R. I'm a Honda guy. Love the brand, history, and the new FL5 looks awesome. bit pricey but being possibly the last of the ICE Type R, this is my pick. Thanks for the vid!
When Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Honda and Lotus move to front wheel drive, I'll consider it. Until then? Torque steer and understeer aren't my friends. Especially on a wet mountain road. I own a GR Yaris (Australian) and have a GR Corolla Morizo Edition on order. The Yaris is the best car I've ever driven on bad roads. In fact the worse the roads get the better the car becomes. I'm hoping the Morizo will be similar.
Civic Type Dealer Markup :D
Such a shame in regards to the dealer markups and low production rate.
Alex laying down some dad jokes and Brian is like 🙄 28:50
I understand the purity of keeping this car as FWD but AWD would certainly make this car much quicker, even with the added weight. It would dip easily into the mid 4's.
Great to see you and Brian working so well together, great addition to the team!
Well done Alex and Brian
I've done my share of shifting a manual so at 65 I'm all in for a dual clutch. But which dual clutch is more reliable?
Vw dsg is great and reliable. have it in my gti and it's been solid.
Get a Veloster N DCT if you can still find one new or maybe used.
Pretty interesting take… all the Civics in Canada are made in Alliston except this one, I get the comparison to the competitors but if I could get a Type R I’m not sure why I would compare it to anything else? What do you compare a Honda Race Car to exactly?
If you are looking at a Type R and are worried about AWD and DSG/Auto gearbox just buy a Golf R, the Type R is not meant for you.
Integra Type S will use the same engine. Hope it will have SH-AWD.
That's a huge maybe. That's if Acura wants to spend the money to give it that. We'll see. Hopefully, Acura announces the Integra Type S before the end of the 2022 calendar year.
Maybe. Does the TLX still use that? I guess it would reduce trunk space considerably. I think the old Civic floorplan had space for the normal CR-V all wheel drive system, but I guess the SH-AWD system takes up more space?
No fair! Changing the trunk measurement standard from Alexs to Brians. Now, we have to re-calibrate past reviews. :)
Helpfully, this video provides the exchange rate between 1 Alex height (72") and 1 Brian height (69"), so the ratio of Alexₕ / Brianₕ is 1.043. There might be additional considerations which adjust this ratio in reality, but for the purposes of Alex On Autos' Exclusive Trunk Comfort Index™ retrofit adjustment, it's an acceptable starting point.
Feels really bouncy, what's the point of adjustable shocks if it's still firm in all modes
What's the point of having punctuation if people don't use it properly?
I think because the base vehicle is a performance oriented model with said expectation.
Does the G meter help you find the G spot?
Throttle house just proved this new generation Type R is slower than the last generation CTR 🤷🏽♂️
Apparently the final drive ratio is lower at 3.842 vs the previous 4.111.
Only from a roll, the old one wins. At a dig, the new one beats it.
@@antoinelee-thomas9536 The higher final drive ratio causes too much wheel spin from a dig. With better tires the old one could of won. You can see it was catching up at the end.
@@prodeq12 Would've could've, catching up is still losing
Brian .night night . Alex very funny . Good one both of you
A lot to sort out with these fun cars.
I'm pretty sure you were having lots of fun while shooting this, Alex. This video was even more entertaining than usual.
Great Honda developed a refreshed Type R or continued to make it available for NA markets. Should be a bit more potent than the GR Corolla due to the displacement and power/torque advantages but either should be a fantastic drive. Corolla has all wheel drive, so it’ll just be about what one’s preference is.
@@naveenthemachine largely inconsequential to me which may be incrementally more in that respect, it’s really all about the driving experience.
Alex, It seems like the days of Honda's top hot hatch/lift back kicking sand in the face of Toyota are finally over. I hope some day you guys get a chance to drive the GR Yaris which is the undisputed king of hot hatches. 🤩🤩
The Veloster N is better and sounds better too.
I'd go with the Golf R.
Same HP? Yes. Same in TQ? No. 30lb-ft difference. Same drivetrain? No. AWD is extra weight over FWD. The FL5 CTR has a better torque curve over the MK8 Golf R.
If you're saying DSG (MK8 R) over a manual-only CTR, that's not a fair comparison because even with the DSG, you add on even more weight on top of the AWD setup.
Golf R or Corolla GR over this all day long. The Civic Si is the sweet spot for the Civic in my opinion, and they should have made that a hatch.
Honestly, I feel this reminds me of the Japanese Accord R more than a Civic Type R.
That's the idea I think!
At the beginning of the video I honestly was wondering where Brian was. Thought maybe he moved on….till I saw the trunk score index..haha
When are they going to make an auto / dual clutch version like the last gen evo. If they do I bet they would sell a lot more.
Great video as always but the extra eye candy Bryan is amazing 😍😍
Great car, but the cost is absurd. Would buy for 38k, but not for 43k, let alone those b-stards at dealerships mark it up by 10k. Forget it.
Alex seems to be a little cheeky today
We'll see if the Integra Type S will be more than the FL5 Civic Type R in terms of features, tech, amenities, and such. The new Civic Type R has all that it needs. The Integra Type S will get more than it wants.
You looked so stressed driving this on the track. Was the Type R more stressful to drive on track comparing to the GR Corolla?
I would not say stress more like focus to maximize the experience ( Stress LOL)
Not stressful, but it requires more skill and attention which in many ways makes it more fun
@@AAutoBuyersGuide Alex, the only thing you stressed over was how you would look on camera with that ill-fitting helmet. 😉
@@AAutoBuyersGuide That sounds like what purest want. Today everything drives for us, which was what made everyone hate Godzilla. Today we have to appreciate that there is still one of very few cars that requires skills to drive hard and fast.
The dealership close to where I live has $15000 mark up and $6780 dealer installed options and the car total over $66k. 🤮
That's awesome, should get more people into the Hyundai N cars.
Hey guys, I just drove this new Type R, most people judging here never ever drove one or else you wouldn’t be commenting negatively, let me ask you to pls test it before you could judge, civic is well build car way better in person then any video I saw on TH-cam. Yah it’s expensive n it’s limited run and stealership are charging insane mark ups, I have called all over the country to find a deal and most are charging $25k over msrp, im sorry guys you think all the other cars are best then civic waiting until you go to buy one and each of these model would have mark up since all of these are specialty vehicles so don’t expect it to be msrp. It’s bullshit but truth you want GR Corolla base with performance upgrade it’s gonna run you msrp plus $15k mark up total of $54,000 plus title and registration good luck friends, it’s insane I wish there was way to by pass these dealershits 😢
I’d take an Audi S3 for the added luxury feature. Can’t imagine how much road noise is from these crazy 265mm tires lol.
I got Elantra N Manual . It’s $10 k less but I might flip on R if can find price
And die broke.
@@operationgetthugs232 I’m thinking get RWD. //M2
Doesn't Toyota Corolla GR come with 5 years warranty?
new Impreza news? hmm, I'm interested :)
WRX Hatch perhaps? Should find out tomorrow with the Impreza reveal at LA auto show.
CVT-only. No manual.
Honda hit it's goal with the FK8!!
Does it also not "compete" with the new Acura Integra?
The Integra Type R should absolutely happen. Too much of a performance gap to compare them as we sit today
Yes.
And that's the way it should be.
Even now I find myself undecided between GR Corolla and Civic Type R. What do you say?
It’s a toss up, but I’d definitely go for a Hybrid Corolla w/ AWD… (I don’t have $65k for an extra spicy hatch at the moment)
@@rollinking399 For that $$$, I’d pass. You can get a Porsche Boxster/Cayman used for that money (40-50k) and it would be a ton more fun…But if it’s between these two, GR Corolla all day long. Honda styling is going south. Toyota is making some great looking cars across the board. Hope Honda doesn’t screw up the S2000 re-make if they decide to make it.
GR Corolla, small cars should bne small, the civic is getting close to accord in size
Mark up is crazy on Civic Type R... I would go with Base GR Corolla with performance package.
GR corolla any day. W thr performance and tech package
Elantra N but I I lived North snow WRX
The additional weight, cost and complexity of all-wheel-drive are a negative for me. Honda for the win, I say.
Your exactly right Alex, the N cars offer a much more pure engaging driving experience, especially the Veloster N, arguably the greatest hot hatch ever.
Since stealerships have ruined the car market, I bought a Mk8 GTI 6MT. Tuned it to stage 1+, intake, exhaust, intercooler.
It’s a little beast right now.
Got it under MSRP, modded it, still no where near what this Type R is going for.
It’s a shame, Type R looks awesome
elantra N for me....
the old one looked cooler
The real crisis is the markup that stealerships are doing to cars these days. The local dealership here wants $80,000 for the TypeR
There's going to be some boneheads out there that say "money is not an issue" and unfortunately pay for it just to make the dealership rich and to say they got it, but have to sacrifice an additional $40,000 in markup to get it.
That's awesome, should get more people into the Hyundai N cars.
I don't think it's that crazy. It's more tone down than the outgoing model. It's got a crazy price, and don't know if anyone can get it.
Do you guys know anyone who bought this car ?
$44k is insane...there is no way....
MK8 Golf R is the same price. GR Corolla Circuit Edition is the same price.
More like $65k for type R.
Still prefer the Elantra N DCT in overall interior, exterior, performance, price, daily driver etc.
Same, I'd still buy the Elantra N DCT, but that front end...omg..looks fugly.
@@puga4202 you gotta see one in person, your mind will change
That DCT has been called out greatly and not in a good way.
@@puga4202 The EN is definitely the better choice, but for looks and true hot hatch dynamics the Veloster N can't be beat.
@@antoinelee-thomas9536 The DCT in the N cars is awesome very few problems have been reported and the few that have get a free tranny so it's win win.
Theres no grown up or old people cars its all in what you like no car at that price is for any kid unless dad has money to buy teen son or doughter a type r, limited the fk8 was told to be limited to but demand had honda making more and thats going to happen with this gen to
Lol, one Bryan 😂
I have a golf and I hate having reverse next to 1st.
its for a racing harness
Get the RS3.
I know it's a performance car, but if you get a rare tire blowout, I prefer the spare in my 2021. I can still get home with a dead phone/no reception.
Never driven around the midwest have you? WY, UT, AZ, NM have vast stretches of 0 cell reception and 0 call boxes or gas stations for miles and miles and often nobody driving by depending on time of day. All it takes is a box of nails to fall off a truck.
CR-V full review please!!!
So 50+ thousand dollars for a Honda Civic? No thank you. Give me a Gulf R or the Hyundai ELANTRA N any day of the week.
You do realize the MK8 Golf R can still be marked up which would then result that same car you speak of be the same price as the FL5 CTR when all is said and done, don't you?
I'm glad it's marked up it will put more people in the more fun to drive N cars.
Golf R = The Golfer
Subaru WRX = The Subaru Works
GR Corolla = The Gorolla… or Great Corolla? 🤔
One could add a turbo kit to the Subaru RS hatch and have more fun than in the Civic Type R for almost half the price of the dealer inflated Type R. It would have more headroom, an automatic transmission, and all wheel drive!!!!! An Alfa Tonale Veloce PHEV has as much sportiness, equal torque and adjustable suspension, more room in the back, all wheel drive, muuuch better looks, interior, visibility, more quiet interior and much much better gas mileage. Plus, the resale on the Alfa will be garbage next year and a steal!!!!!!! Honda can screw themselves with the dealer markups. The Elantra N is the ugliest car on the market. The Mazda 3 turbo AWD would be better than this with an automatic as well.
No and no. Only manual. If manual transmissions aren't your thing or you can't drive one, you're better off sticking to what you already have.
"No AWD" basically saying that you don't know anything about Honda and the Type R.
Markups are what kills this car market for us...thank you greedy dealers, your the reason why affordable sporty cars are going away.
I love that you were forced to do your street review on damp roads, all anyone ever talks about are how much of a track beast it is, even with FWD. the problem is as soon as conditions aren't perfect (pretty much any daily driving situation), it reverts to type, which is a FWD car, that is to say, physics will always win.
GR Corolla all the way…Honda’s new styling is not very attractive for their sedans and hatches…the new Pilot and Ridgeline look great though…the stubby nose look on the sedans is not a good look(I’m sure it’s for crash standards, but everyone else seems to do it better)….Also not a fan of center exhaust pipes, especially in a hatch. Had them in my Porsche Boxster and burned myself a few time son them. Looks nice, but not functional at all. Infotainment seems to be better than the rest of the Honda’s, but I’ve never had a Honda with a “very good” UI…so, I’ll reserve judgement. Nice to see a manual. I think Honda makes a great one. I actually prefer reverse left and up. Makes it easier to go from reverse to forward by just going straight down into first…but, you can get used to anything.
Elantra N got to market first & has made this car redundant.
I have the ultimate Civic. NA powered K20, 2700lb 10th Gen Chassis and Honda's 6MT. It cost 1/3 the price of Type-R (back in 2017) and I don't have to quit the field from overheating on track days. Sucks that Honda had a formula that would appeal to the kids who weren't ego driven, but instead went for cash grab with over inflated turbo power.
Not the same thing man. Type R has that handling, finesse and prestige to it. Most would rather drive this car than the fastest and cheapest Honda available.
@@dknight25 Yeah, I'd rather drive a Type-R. But it's my old Civic that made me good enough to get the most out the Type-R. Type-R's limits is too high for noobs who aren't able to push to 100 percent (where all the learning happens)... Bought prestige is a waste, when your real focus is driving.
Golf R in this segment at MSRP as a daily driver, no question. Similarly priced with added AWD, and it's loaded with way more features (heated/ventilated front seats, HUD, heated rear seats, three zone climate, heated steering wheel, digital cockpit, etc), better suspension options with its DCC, and more upscale interior quality.
Don't forget complete trash infotainment system with cheap capacitive buttons.
The Civic has adaptive dampers too -- it's just every mode is stiff lol. It also has a digital gauge cluster like the Golf. 🙂 Those other things you mention are more what can be expected from the Integra Type S, whereas the Civic Type R competes with the Golf GTI Clubsport (not sold in North America) which is the more track-focussed Golf more so than the Golf R which is more luxury-focussed. The GTI Clubsport is similarly front wheel drive like the Civic Type R.
@@TassieLorenzo That's a lot of words to agree with me that the Golf R is the better daily driving hot hatch in the group. 😀
@@jdipietronh Nah, Golf R is boring IMO, which defeats the point of a hot hatch to be concentrated driving fun! It may as well be a Golf 206TSI 4Motion...
@@TassieLorenzo Exactly, the golf R is a boring version of a hot hatch for older drivers.
Why not both? 😂😂😂
Shoulder belts ?? Not your everyday, rest of the world seat belts ?
cute
Civic Type R is a super car - don’t know why this guy compares the type R with the piece of crap Toyota GR Corolla
It Should Compete Against The Golf R.
@@naveenthemachine Yeah.
It's an in-between car. It's competition is the following:
GR Corolla
MK8 GTI
MK8 Golf R
Departing Veloster N
Successor Elantra N
WRX
Bonus - which has yet to be announced, but still to come by next year: Integra Type S.
This car has lots of competition.
The direct competitor would be the GTI Clubsport, the Golf R is more luxury orientated hence having luxury equipment and all wheel drive (which adds weight) over the Clubsport.
@@TassieLorenzo The Clubsport Is Not In The US Which Is My Home Country.
👏👏👏
no more poor man's sport car now...
⚫slower than fk8,
⚫less crazy looking than fk8
⚫Reasonably most subdued design
⚫The quietest type r
"craziest" seems wrong word
$43K+ for a civic 😂
Why not bring back S2K for that kinda dough Honda?
At this price it needed to be a unique coupe.
NOT THE HOTTEST HATCH, and not even close to the craziest honda ever. The most overpriced hatch ever, YES!
MT in 2022!!!?? This thing is slower than Camry V6
Are you mad because you can't drive one (a manual transmission) or are you mad that your Camry V6 still gets blown out of the water by a car not even in its class?
Not worth $82,000 sorry.
Wow, a colossal disappointment
FWD performance sedans are pointless, make it with AWD and it will be worth the price tag
Pointless?
There are some fwd Germans who would love to talk to you. The CLA is a hoot
@@naveenthemachine The CLA isn’t in this league unless you move to 35 AMG, and that has AWD (for a reason).
@@afcgeo882 isn’t the AWD front biased?
Hot hatches have traditionally been front wheel drive, and have proven themselves over the past 40+ years to be a super fun (and potentially super quick) on a backroad or track.
@@naveenthemachine The AWD system in the CLA can send up to 90% of the torque to the rear or up to 100% to the front. That isn’t enough to say it’s biased in either direction.