I’m far from a pro player, but I picked up a lever less controller so I can try something new, and that initial period of having to relearn certain basic mechanics in games I knew inside and out was really exciting. Sure it took some time to get things down, and I’m still not entirely fluent in it like I am at a traditional stick, but I just love the feel of playing on it. The only downside is that playing grapplers in old games is insanely hard.
I own dualshock controllers, an arcade stick, and hitbox style sticks. I must say that the hitbox style is much better for my hands. I dealt with hand pain quite a bit last year, and switching to hitbox made it go away over time. However, I must say I am not the biggest fan of the form factor with the original Hitbox, but I absolutely LOVE my EVO MPress.
Wow had I known about the MPress I probably would have looked into it. Although I wouldn't have gotten an EVO model and plus they seem to be out of stock of pretty much everything at the moment anyways. I recently ordered a Fightbox F1 and hopefully I like it, otherwise I could just keep it for display lol. But about hitboxes in general, how do you deal with QCF motions to the left? Trying it on my keyboard, it's not an easy input going from my middle finger to my ring finger (left hand). It's much easier and natural going from middle finger to index finger.
I'm 46 and moving to hitbox as soon as it comes in. I pinched a nerve in my left wrist earlier this year that makes it extremely hard for me to use a fight stick for more than one or two matches in a row without tingling in my fingertips or wicked cramps in my hand and wrist. I know my game will suffer at first, but I'd rather play fighting games at reduced skill than not play them at all.
With hitbox there's some stuff that is better mostly. I play on hitbox tho because with PS4 pad i would hurt my finger after a while since the DPad is a bit consumed and with a stick i had problem with my wrist after a while to the point that i would play less session by session since the pain came in sooner for each session. I mostly switched for that
@@BlobFGC they want to feel like their years dedicated to obvious bad tech not be wasted, and call whoever they lose to using a hitbox, cheaters to keep intact their fragile ego.
@@BlobFGC like people have tried to compare hitbox to pad players aim assist in shooters vs m+k. That's ridiculous as a hitbox is just accessibility of making much more logical inputs. Aim assist is actually programming as a handicap to aid controllers aim more accurately and most of the time, reduce recoil as well. Now that's actually cheating but given by stupid devs that don't know how to balance.
My view has always been that allowing better efficiency is a good thing. People just need to remember that efficiency is NOT added functionality. Sure, I can quantitatively input certain combinations of commands faster (e.g. walking forward to blocking), but just because you can do it faster does not mean you're doing something impossible with other input methods. It's the exact same as using a new mouse with a better sensor or having a better mousepad/skates. You still have to put the time in and practice all the same. Now if you, for example, remove SOCD cleaning and can block both ways, then that's some aim assist shit and not ok. Sidenote: I do believe it should be more on developers to have ways of combatting issues like this (i.e. SOCD) with software solutions in the game, rather than not expect players to abuse built-in, unintentional functionality of their games.
That's a load of crap bro and you know it. It's like saying that you can ride as fast on a horse as drive a car. Obviously you can't do certain moves as fast on lever as you can on hitbox. You can't input forward and back AT THE SAME TIME ON LEVER IT'S LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE. What a boneheaded argument.
Commenting on every video requesting Arakune BBCF combo trials, video 104. I was looking into buying a button box controller but theyre all pretty expensive sadly. But apparently making your own is cheaper by a significant margin, which is interesting.
I understand the argument that leverless controllers can be a problem for older games, but I feel like people are blowing it out of proportion for newer games. Most new games have some built in SOCD detection that can override any mods that a hitbox player may add to their controller. The only problem is that there is no standard and its up to the developers on how they wish to handle it. I feel like if there was some set of rules in effect so every game can handle SOCD the exact same, then people can stop calling it 'cheating' lol. If the majority of the tech people are calling 'cheating' can be done on a pad, the most accessible controller that 90%+ of their casual player base uses, then I feel like its the developers fault for not handling SOCD correctly in their games. It's insane to me that there are people who actually want to ban pads lmfao.
Hitbox is not cheating. People have been trying to get mechanical benefits for years like the 4 gates and 8 gate stick, that made fireballs and 360s easier. This is just another step of progression.
Zaaaaaacccttlllyyyy! d-pad commands are far more feasible than any lever/joystick out there, ESPECIALLY ➡⬇↘ I can bust out EWGF on a console all day long and I don't even main any Mishimas. Make me do it on a lever with a gun to my head and I'll see you in Valhalla! 🤣
which is cheating imo. It makes it easier but doesn't make you professional. Vintage joystick is a way to go because that's how fighting games were brought up
@@musicmakespeace Defaulting to origin? This is kinda like a cross between a "No True Scotsman" fallacy and a "False Dilemma" fallacy. It assumes that there are no other alternatives that are acceptable while also implying that this is just the way things are in general. Vintage joystick is how fgs were brought up only because it was the available tech at the time. And that tech didn't even come into play until the 70s, long after coin-op games were already a thing. However, now it may turn into a "Slippery Slope" because home consoles have a totally different type of input device. So then does vintage joystick still apply on the premise that this is how fgs were brought up? If so then now we gotta do something about that control pad! lol These are the challenges of this debate. Just to be clear, easing things doesn't necessarily = cheating. It's the "nature" of how we ease things. New sports plays have been developed over the years out of nowhere, new MMA moves invented, etc. Things that make winning "easier". Steroids also make winning easier but are a stark contrast to things that are fair. I fear the day we start calling people cheaters because they can count frames like counting cards in Vegas! 😂
@@hugejackedman3447 because you're competing against other players. No one gives a shit if you're using "cheatbox" at home. But if you're competing, isn't it fair to make it an equal game? Control pad is just as similar to vintage joystick. idk what do you mean "available tech at that time", control pad already exist at that time. We just use because to me, that's equal footing. Hitbox, CLEARLY has decreased frames when pulling certain moves. YOu mean to tell me that's fair on a competitive side?
@@musicmakespeace What I mean is that the very first coin-op game that came out like 70 years ago has a similar input design to the Hitbox, that is it was "leverless". Around 1972 or 73 Magnavox created the first "joystick" for computer entertainment. This was the available tech at the time and it stayed that way because nobody developed any alternative input devices until Nintendo's d-pad. (It was actually Intellivision however that did it first but who cares about Intellivision? lol) And since keyboards were neither suitable to coin-op machines nor gaming consoles that means the tech that was used for arcades was a lever and for consoles a d-pad. Keeping in mind that a keyboard can do the same things a Hitbox can do, and that no console manufacturer was gonna design their consoles to use a keyboard or coin-op manufacturer gonna attach a keyboard to a coin-op machine it stands to reason that they used what was feasible right? Now about advantages. What you are implying is that what is unfair is a mere input device is allowing you to do things that were impossible on previous input devices therefore its only fair if you are forcefully limited by the technology created 3 decades ago. Keep in mind that while hitbox does have advantages it also Has disadvantages Doesnt play nor win for you Only makes certain inputs more feasible based on the physical design that was not feasible 30 years ago. Decreased frames isn't 100% accurate, more like decreased execution time because frames are locked in based on source code. No controller can override what the game is designed to do. But I'll tell you a brief story. My half brother is like hardcore military. Has studied everything to do with war since his childhood. He has been banned from playing literally every FPS game out there because idiots think he's using an aimbot when he isn't even smart enough to know what one is! 🤣 Truth is he's a sociopath that just knows every historical tactic about killing from ancient Rome to today. So when he plays shooters he has actual advantages in terms of knowledge and just pure muscle memory and reflexes. He figured out a way to not only increase his hand eye coordination to max but also his finger speed. I say all this just to say that the idea of game breaking advantages should never be seen as some sort of "unfair" advantage because finding any advantage (within rules) has always been a part of competition. I mean hell we see it all the time in Soccer right? 😂
Unless it wins games "for" you, it's not cheating. I'm sick of people associating the concept of having an edge over others with "unfair" or "cheating". There are a million and one things people do to improve or enhance output. Top performing fighters and athletes have access to NASA and military level tools and equipment that not all other fighters and athletes have access to. They have industry-leading nutritionists and trainers, (legal) supplements that speed up recovery and so on. They review tapes on their opponents all in the effort to "gain an advantage" over their opponents. THIS IS NOT CHEATING! In competition you do all that you can "within legal regulations and guidelines" to gain an advantage so if it isnt against the rules IT AINT CHEATING. This controller does not win for you. You still hve to actually play the game, know "how" to play, outhink, outsmart your opponent, strategize and optimize the best offense/defense and react quickly to critical actions that could mean victory or defeat REGARDLESS of a controller that reduces input time. The competition is not about who can do commands the best. It's not about who can use what controller the best. If Elon Musk's neuralink was feasible for gaming, I bet my wallet a gazillion gamers would jump on board because it's so much easier to execute the moves you want from a thought than to deal with a faulty piece of plastic and fiber optics that could at any point not execute a DP you are sure you input properly. This exact input mechanism was actually the initial design for coin operated games sometime in the 1950s. Had it become the standard instead of some guy at Magnavox creating the "joystick" 20 years later, you'd ALL be playing Hitbox today! Enough is enough! End rant. Apologies.
Eh... Lots of sports ban equipment even if everyone could theoretically use today equipment. Swimming has banned suits and erunning has banned shoes, for example. It's not just "everyone uses whatever equipment is best", the idea that equipment that is *too good* should be banned is an idea that is implemented across professional sports.
@@arglebargle5531 Totally different concepts here. Yeah lots of things get banned BUT ONLY when those things oppose the guidelines set by athletic commissions. They dont just say "well this is too good ban it" or "well this isn't fair because it allows you to do certain things that aren't commonly feasible". What I was talking about was the "use" of things that give a person an egde or advantage. And quite a many of those things are allowed right? You know what sort of training equipment NBA players get to use? Muscle enhancing machines and breathing devices you'll never ever see in a Gold's Gym or LA Fitness. Ever. Period. But these are not against the rules so therefore despite how "good" they are they aren't banned. Steroids are a banned substance not simply because they give an unfair advantage but because they are already "illegal" to begin with as per both federal law and sport regulations. Could even do a deep dive explaining how some bans are actually controversial. Example: The 12-6 elbow in UFC. It was banned about 2 decades ago not because it was "too good" but because the geniuses saw some old Karate footage and decided it was too dangerous! 🤣 Yet flying knees that cave in their skulls are fine.. 🤷♂ Or the high tech swimsuit controversy. Just for the sake of discussion allow me to say it's not comparable to the hitbox issue as that swimsuit doesn't just simply improve performance, it literally removes some levels of exertion that tax the body's endurance, which is what the competition is all about. Hitboxes don't remove any effort on the part of the player, they just give access to functions that are less feasible on "some" other input devices. Things that are not impossible because of the game's design but because of the "controller" design. There is of course no SOCD on a d-pad because of the design of the d-pad. Same with the stick. Their designs alone make this impossible. This doesn't mean that you are cheating the game because you found a way to do it. The controller was not designed to do what the game tells it to do. It's the other way around. The game is designed to do what the "controller" tells it to do.
@@hugejackedman3447 This is untrue. Equipment that gets banned was only allowed to be used in the first place because the guidelines against it didn't exist. The banning generally occurs *after* the equipment has been used in sports and been determined to be too good (e.g., swimming). Your examples of advantages are also off-base, as they do not involve equipment that gets used in games. In contrast, my rxamples: banned running, swimming, tennis gear, etc, is similar to the hitbox in that it is equipment that was used legally in-game before being banned for being too good.
@@arglebargle5531 only used "one" example that was unrelated and that was to give additional context to what I explicitly stated as a deeper look into things that are controversial. That was just a bonus. Either way, we aren't talking decades ago when people didn't know better until the stuff was used then decided ok it cant be accepted. Hell even new football plays were called out at some point and there was deliberation, going over the rulebooks until it ws decided "well it's not against the rules so it's acceptable". "Sometimes" these decisions get challenged but sometimes they result in the adoption and adaptation of new tech and standards. End of the day, what's one person's definition of too good may conflict with others so who decides? Gotta have an organized board of regulators for that one...
@@hugejackedman3447 This isn't decades ago. New equipment bans in swimming and running have come out in the last decade, with Nike AlphaFlys being banned in 2020 after athletes using them dominated the 2019 season.
So the arguments are the games weren’t designed for it but ever since consoles became the standard for fighting games, the games companies made the games for their majority. Since pads can also do SODC (with analog stick) leverless is on par with what the majority of the player base is playing on
@@GamersOdyssey elaborate. You make the game account for all buttons controllers then it's not breaking mechanics, I think adjustments to socd is adequate and the line being drawn at Daigo's gaffrobox should be seen as a positive in that direction. Besides it's like Jwong said, leverless is harder in older games because there is more room for error doing the strict motion controls (you cant accidently input a direction twice in a row doing 720 on a stick for example) , it's the current trend of lax inputs that's giving them an edge over sticks. But people who are concerned with ergonomics will always choose buttons for the sake of their hands.
@@caiuscosades362it's not about what is harder or easier. It's about what is and isn't possible. There are things that can be done on hotbox that are physically impossible on other control formats.
The only time i've experience hand wrist pain on stick. Was when I didn't know wth I was doing on it. During the learning phase. Exerting excessive pressure and becoming tense causes strain.
I'm stick player through and through. 40 years old...grew up during the fighting game boom in the 90s. I remember in like 99 or 00 or whenever mugen came out...and I hated playing fighters on a keyboard. Hit box ain't for me...but I do see the market for others to be into it.
Personally I think the bigger reason to just allow it is accessibility. Who cares what controller a person uses to play a game. I find it much easier to play using a hit box style controller and to say “you’re not allowed to use it” only serves to gatekeep fighting games as a whole. Yes older games weren’t designed with it in mind but fighting games are much more a game of skill and mastery of all of the mechanics and matchup knowledge than it is what controller a person uses. I could never beat Justin Wong in a match of 3rd strike no matter what controller either of use since he has a a greater understanding of the mechanics. There is no reason to add arbitrary gates.
I find it funny that Justin says it's harder to use them on older games. Use them on older games is pretty easy once you figure out the time for stuff. They arent held up by the easy inputs it just makes them solid choice to a bit busted.
I would like to say that hitbox and keyboard(as well as pad) bring more accessibility for people who can't afford or use a fight stick, plus If everyone cheats, then no one will be(I don't think is cheating lol)
@@shaqthegr8884 hitbox is an easier switch from keyboard to tournament legal, keyboard sometimes comes with your pc and same story with pad and console
I know it's clickbait and really not that big an issue but from what I've learned of the FGC watching from the sidelines is that the answer is always "ADAPT"
Seems arcade sticks are the most "honest" controller. We sadly are past the arcade generation so in order to level the competitive field and allow any type of controller going forward maybe the community can push game developers to maybe have a way in the game programing to disable sodc and thus neutralize any benefit one controller has over another but still allowing the comfortable form factor of the individuals choice?
you cant. the reason keyboard and hitbox is cheating is because these games were designed with being able to press the same opposing cardinal directions. they were designed for anything that can mimic how a stick works examples. the d-pad and or thumb stick on a controller. keyboards and hitboxes actually change the mechanics of how you make inputs and that is why it is unfair even with socd cleaning... i have a feeling once hitboxes/leverless dominate the tournament scene at that point they will probably just lose all most of if not all stick users.... and with all of the benefits i here of using hitbox are many and i never here about the downsides people say their are downsides and then never mention them. like what's the downside their all talking about? learning a new controller? coz once you become as proficient with one of these leverless over a stick or pad you literally skip inputs its fckn cheating.
Wild. People that grew up on arcade wanted to relive the arcade era and built arcade sticks to feel comfortable. Now a new generation that grew up with keyboards want something with familiarity. JFC cry y’all or switch. 🤷♂️
Let's be honest; people wouldn't use Hitbox if it didn't offer them a competitive advantage over people who aren't using it. It's literally a case of buying third party hardware, to gain an advantage. Whether we call it cheating, or not, it definitely is in the category of pay-to-win. For the same reason that gamers don't tolerate paid advantages in software (pay to win), gamers shouldn't tolerate paid advantages in hardware either. Just use the normal stuff that your console came with. Now PC is the Wild West. The default hardware is a mouse and keyboard. And the Hitbox is just a keyboard with fewer buttons. Let PC people do whatever the hell they want with their mouse and keyboards. Just separate tournaments, like a lot of FPS and battle royal games do, into PC/console. That way, everyone is on the same playing field in their respective scenes. Honestly, I don't know why fighting games have this problem with allowing all this crazy third party hardware. I've even seen people literally making their own monstrosity versions of Hitbox out of cardboard. You don't see people in the FPS scene bringing home-made motion sensor guns to competitive scenes. They play with the normal hardware of their respective platforms. It really shouldn't be difficult for fighting games to catch up to that. Just my opinion.
yeah it's comparable to the edge that people get when they use mouse/keyboard in FPS games against console players. we all know that. you can input shit faster, and more accurately using those PC tools. anybody that tries to deny that is just full of it. and people do it specifically for that reason. they're looking for that edge over people that haven't bought a leverless controller. and flat out, that ain't fair. so I'm gonna call it cheating outright.
You do realize that same can be said for sticks and pads as well? There are particular mods for both types of controllers. Also the main reason people use leverless controllers is that they're much more ergonomic and don't cause arthrites while trying to do simple combos
@@tabkg5802 Someone using a regular controller doesn't have a paid advantage over another person using a regular controller. Any weird modded things that maybe you're thinking of (maybe turbo buttons, or something like that?) do not fall within the realm of "normal stuff that your console came with" that I was talking about. So, I can't agree that the same can be said for controllers, sorry. This issue with monstrous custom control devices is something that should have never gotten off the ground Imo. No other genre of competitive game has this issue... at least, not that I know of.
The solution is to ban everything that is not a traditional arcade stick so no one can use shortcuts, for regular controllers limit the use of analog stick and pad at the same time, choose only one.
Y’all bugging talking about get rid of the pads. Nobody gonna hold their controller like that in order to SOCD. Nobody their right mind gonna say pads have a higher advantage over Stick or Hitbox. Y’all bending over backwards to defend Hitbox lol
Pads do have an advantage over stick. Not only are they silent which helps in a tournament setting where sometimes you’re sitting right next to your opponent, but the travel distance between directions on a pad are much shorter than on a stick. You can input motions like quarter circle, half circle, and 360 a lot faster on pad than you can on stick.
I used to use d-pads on controller in fighting games because it's more efficient to do things with it, you can press down on d-pad and then flick up on the stick to do the very same thing you can do on keyboard or other leverless controller
@@harrylane4 its cheating. the pad problem could be easily fixed with a simple option disabling either the d-pad or thumbstick during gameplay players choice.
After much thought about it this conversation is just stupid. Its not the controllers fault. Game devs should code their games to do whats allowed and whats not allowed
hitbox was literally conceived, designed and created because some people that were trying to get good at mvc2 were sick off missing inputs of their own error. hitbox was literally designed to gain an advantage. its cheating. how is it even a debate. what the actual fook
Yeah, and they should also ban analog stick use while the dpad is being used. Kinda like how COD asks for your input before loading into a match. Playing pad while being against hitbox is not hypocritical. Almost no normal person is playing with their left analog stick with their ring finger or some bullshit pressing face buttons. I get its bad for tourneys but its not a realistic concern versus an input that was literally designed to allow SOCD
just like most game options now these days they allow you to remap the buttons on your pad. why they have not made an option to simply select the use of either the d-pad or thumbstick disabling the other is beyond me. it would be a tiny update. then hitbox users would have 0 argument. i cant stand it wen they bring that point up as a defense for hitbox.
Couldn't they just make it prioritize down and forward and remove most of the shortcuts? I'm not super versed on the whole socd mess cause I'm a stick boomer but it seems the fact that it prioritizes jump and makes forward and back become neutral is the reason you get all these silly shortcuts and free flash kicks. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows. I'll be playing on stick till the day I get arthritis. Brain too smol for box
Does it give you an advantage? Yes. Is it cheating? No. There were exploits people could do on pad that are made easier with hitboxes but we don't ban pad so...
very simple fighting game devs incorporate an option to only enable the d-pad or thumb stick only disabling the other. problem solved. how do you fck up wave dash on a hitbox? you basically cant mess it up. its cheating
It isnt cheating, just a bunch of people whining. Theres always arguments about hardware advantage when people start losing. There were the same arguments for pad and even for fight sticks. Stfu and run it back.
All throughout the 90s: ~My d-pad stuck. ~It's worn out. (that one can be true sometimes) ~I can only play on Sega controllers I can't play on SNES controllers. ~You playing on that arcade stick. I don't have all those directions on my controller. ~Your buttons click better and mine are flat. My favorite excuse was how I was winning because "I know all their special moves". 🤣
Right when I play my friends in fighting games. “You know all these combos, chill.” When they can take the time to learn but choose not too. Thats like complaining that someone has map knowledge over you in a shooting game 😂 learn the map and practice your aim
Hitbox/Leverless isnt cheating but it may be sad to see other inputs fall to the wayside if people enjoy them more i.e. lever fightstick. The crossup is cheating however as it puts two sets of the same functions on the input device to bypass the games system to make it easier. It is honestly one step away from macros All this being said if people want to retain fight stick tournaments they can make all fight stick tournaments kinds of how some shooter games have console and controller tournaments instead of people using mnk
On hitbox you can make moves (like pushing back and forwards at the same time) that isn't even possible on lever. That's end of discussion because it's not opinion but fact bro why you guys keep defending hitbox? I mean you should play on w/e you want on your own but in competition hitbox gives you clear advantage if you can spend the time to learn it.
I don’t play hitbox and I don’t think it’s cheating. People just like to complain because they can’t use it. Most of the dudes complaining would get wrecked if they jump to a hitbox lol
The more I read the more I see only excuses to justify the incapability to do something hard. Why do you think some moves in games are very strong but hard to pull off?? Execution which required hard work, pain, time and dedication. If anyone can do it with some weeks of practice or even days than the game lost the purpose to differentiate characters for their strengths and compensate for this. Do you want to use the cheatboxes ( mixbox and hitbox)? Fine, you can do it at home, same for keyboard just for fun with some friends. Your hands or wrist hurt to much? Maybe go to take care of yourself before engaging in something you can't do, health comes first. Stop making excuses for yourself to justify your limits and boundaries. I play stick and pad on Tekken 7 on high level as a deserved TGP. Being able to do a Pewgf in days because you can use more fingers on few buttons is regression not progression. Your playing a videogame, not a piano with 88 keys. Fair play and ethics, these unknown words now a days. If you can't do something to improve, the solution is certainly not dragging down the good players in order to help people which simply can't do it for different reasons. This is simply unrespectful to those who put genuine real hard work in the FGC. And i didn't even talk about the unfair advantages of the. Cheatboxes.
From an outsider looking in, it feels as if a hitbox should resolve all double inputs as neutral, this mimics the need to roll the lever to the other side, how to enforce this? well, that's harder to do, for online games, the game or online provider should make sure no SODC is occurring, for in person tournaments a hardware adapter that reads the inputs before sending them to the console could be developed.
can still physically press socd though allowing you to manipulate the way inputs are supposed to be input even with the socd cleaning there are shortcuts and directional manipulations you can do. fighting games were never meant to be played on anything that can press physically press socd. other wise they would have been hitbox style cabinets from day 1. would have been cheaper to build and maintain over sticks. they used sticks because the only controls that work properly with fighting games are as i said controllers you cant physically press socd on ... :(
If you prefer fightstick, it means you began playing in arcades, OR it means you let fightstick users brainwash you. Therefore, you can not be old, but you have the mind of an old, cranky, dogmatic and biased geezer. Believe me, I know because I'm one. That being said, leverless is objectively better in every aspect except in specifically making half and complete circles. This is plain fact. Cheating is not related to this fact. Cheating relates to the intended input design of the game and the construction of the tournament rules. Properly designed games will not allow abuses, properly layed tournament rules will avoid cheats without any problem. Any other take is just emotional opinion without real value. Even if you felt left behind like an old cranky biased geezer, sorry. In the end, the real problem here is: fightsicks are an AWFUL design. Believe me, I know, because I may be an old geezer, but I'm also an industrial designer.
Depends. Are the games designed for arcade sticks or hitbox controllers. For example. Anyone who is being honest can tell you that you use mouse and keyboard when playing fps. If there is no auto-aim working in the background of the game. So if anyone tells you that it doesn't matter, they are lying to you. So you have to look at it the same way for a hitbox vs an arcade stick. Either there is an advantage or there isn't one. If there is, then it is cheating to use it. But however you want to take the word, "advantage" is up to the FGC to decide.
Keyboard is better, but unroftunately it can't be use fun tournaments. Tbh the best way is to make your own cheatbox with both wasd+space buttons. If you're feeling particularly wild you can add 2nd set of motion controls to use in Tekken 7
As a hitbox player myself i can say after months of practice... I'm worse on hitbox for the lack of easy 360. (In all seriousness all controllers have there advantages and I think hitbox does help me as I miss input less often but I feel weaker on air combos as the actual motion is less natural than on other controllers. the main advantage is purely the speed of which you can input supers and specials but the more complex and precise the actual input HAS to be then the more you feel the draw back of the controller.)
As long as Capcom and other game developers make sure all games are like SF6 with no proximity guard and you can block anytime unlike SF5 things will be fine. on the other had, if Hitboxes get more popular, all the old games will disappear because those old games have harder inputs.
Bit late here, but I'm planning to play Tekken 8 and Street Fighter 6 as my first fighting games and did a lot of research on controllers. I want to pick up the Hitbox Crossup because it has a clear advantage against stick. I actually want to play stick, but I know I'll lose online to people when practicing that have any hitbox and that just doesn't seem fair.
Honestly, I feel weird seeing pro players switch from stick to buttons. The reason I use an all button controller is that I've been playing Mortal Kombat on PC DOS since I was 4 years old and have gotten used to playing everything on a keyboard, so the all button controller is the only one that feels natural to me. But when people spend time to learn using a tool they're not used to just because it may give them an advantage - that feels weird.
Panda getting paid by hitbox now lol. The best players like Tokido and Daigo literally have had streams dedicated to showing how broken it is for years
The older generation will always hate/gate keep on the newer generation, doesn’t matter what or who it is. This will pass, the old men will get tired and go play Bingo.
You are doing things on a hitbox that is IMPOSSIBLE to do on an arcade stick, how is that so hard to grasp? You guys aren't winning tourneys anyways, but you can't deny that hitbox users have an advantage...
I can feel Aris somewhere rolling his eyes.
Aris is my patron saint of gormlessness. His latest hitbox rant is all time, but I'm glad they showed his older cheatbox sermons
I’m far from a pro player, but I picked up a lever less controller so I can try something new, and that initial period of having to relearn certain basic mechanics in games I knew inside and out was really exciting. Sure it took some time to get things down, and I’m still not entirely fluent in it like I am at a traditional stick, but I just love the feel of playing on it. The only downside is that playing grapplers in old games is insanely hard.
The way Kizzie said, "I am not no goddamn boomer" came straight from the soul.
I own dualshock controllers, an arcade stick, and hitbox style sticks. I must say that the hitbox style is much better for my hands. I dealt with hand pain quite a bit last year, and switching to hitbox made it go away over time. However, I must say I am not the biggest fan of the form factor with the original Hitbox, but I absolutely LOVE my EVO MPress.
Wow had I known about the MPress I probably would have looked into it. Although I wouldn't have gotten an EVO model and plus they seem to be out of stock of pretty much everything at the moment anyways. I recently ordered a Fightbox F1 and hopefully I like it, otherwise I could just keep it for display lol. But about hitboxes in general, how do you deal with QCF motions to the left? Trying it on my keyboard, it's not an easy input going from my middle finger to my ring finger (left hand). It's much easier and natural going from middle finger to index finger.
Hitbox style controllers*
Or you can just say leverless controllers*
@@theWIIISEguy wanted to be specific since there are quite a few ways to play fighting games
@@dmelton_yt I think I understood and understand. I'm just saying hitboxes are inherently not sticks in any way.
Using this as an excuse to justify your cheating ass is whack yo
I'm 46 and moving to hitbox as soon as it comes in. I pinched a nerve in my left wrist earlier this year that makes it extremely hard for me to use a fight stick for more than one or two matches in a row without tingling in my fingertips or wicked cramps in my hand and wrist. I know my game will suffer at first, but I'd rather play fighting games at reduced skill than not play them at all.
With hitbox there's some stuff that is better mostly. I play on hitbox tho because with PS4 pad i would hurt my finger after a while since the DPad is a bit consumed and with a stick i had problem with my wrist after a while to the point that i would play less session by session since the pain came in sooner for each session. I mostly switched for that
the hitbox has the same theoritical benefits as the keyboard but since it's on a big rectangle instead of a long rectangle it's called cheating
Keyboard, hitbox, same thing, cheating. Used to wonder why some freaks used to use keyboards in the SF4 era.
@@jamesw5713 How's it cheating though ? Arcade sticks are just outdated technology.
@@BlobFGC they want to feel like their years dedicated to obvious bad tech not be wasted, and call whoever they lose to using a hitbox, cheaters to keep intact their fragile ego.
@@XC11301991 Maybe. It's just weird when people confuse getting an edge over the competition with actual cheating.
@@BlobFGC like people have tried to compare hitbox to pad players aim assist in shooters vs m+k. That's ridiculous as a hitbox is just accessibility of making much more logical inputs. Aim assist is actually programming as a handicap to aid controllers aim more accurately and most of the time, reduce recoil as well. Now that's actually cheating but given by stupid devs that don't know how to balance.
It's gonna take a lot more than a hitbox to make me not suck ass at every fighting game.
My view has always been that allowing better efficiency is a good thing. People just need to remember that efficiency is NOT added functionality. Sure, I can quantitatively input certain combinations of commands faster (e.g. walking forward to blocking), but just because you can do it faster does not mean you're doing something impossible with other input methods. It's the exact same as using a new mouse with a better sensor or having a better mousepad/skates. You still have to put the time in and practice all the same. Now if you, for example, remove SOCD cleaning and can block both ways, then that's some aim assist shit and not ok.
Sidenote: I do believe it should be more on developers to have ways of combatting issues like this (i.e. SOCD) with software solutions in the game, rather than not expect players to abuse built-in, unintentional functionality of their games.
That's a load of crap bro and you know it. It's like saying that you can ride as fast on a horse as drive a car. Obviously you can't do certain moves as fast on lever as you can on hitbox. You can't input forward and back AT THE SAME TIME ON LEVER IT'S LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE. What a boneheaded argument.
You cannot simultaneously hit left and right on an arcade stick
Commenting on every video requesting Arakune BBCF combo trials, video 104. I was looking into buying a button box controller but theyre all pretty expensive sadly. But apparently making your own is cheaper by a significant margin, which is interesting.
Panda needs to do the Arakune trials using Anklegator's Pizza Box.
I understand the argument that leverless controllers can be a problem for older games, but I feel like people are blowing it out of proportion for newer games. Most new games have some built in SOCD detection that can override any mods that a hitbox player may add to their controller. The only problem is that there is no standard and its up to the developers on how they wish to handle it. I feel like if there was some set of rules in effect so every game can handle SOCD the exact same, then people can stop calling it 'cheating' lol.
If the majority of the tech people are calling 'cheating' can be done on a pad, the most accessible controller that 90%+ of their casual player base uses, then I feel like its the developers fault for not handling SOCD correctly in their games. It's insane to me that there are people who actually want to ban pads lmfao.
I never complained about hitbox or arcade sticks cheating
You don’t sound good enough to understand the stance.
@@Seemyhammer what's that supposed to mean?
Hitbox is not cheating. People have been trying to get mechanical benefits for years like the 4 gates and 8 gate stick, that made fireballs and 360s easier. This is just another step of progression.
Zaaaaaacccttlllyyyy! d-pad commands are far more feasible than any lever/joystick out there, ESPECIALLY ➡⬇↘
I can bust out EWGF on a console all day long and I don't even main any Mishimas. Make me do it on a lever with a gun to my head and I'll see you in Valhalla! 🤣
which is cheating imo. It makes it easier but doesn't make you professional. Vintage joystick is a way to go because that's how fighting games were brought up
@@musicmakespeace Defaulting to origin? This is kinda like a cross between a "No True Scotsman" fallacy and a "False Dilemma" fallacy. It assumes that there are no other alternatives that are acceptable while also implying that this is just the way things are in general.
Vintage joystick is how fgs were brought up only because it was the available tech at the time. And that tech didn't even come into play until the 70s, long after coin-op games were already a thing. However, now it may turn into a "Slippery Slope" because home consoles have a totally different type of input device. So then does vintage joystick still apply on the premise that this is how fgs were brought up? If so then now we gotta do something about that control pad! lol These are the challenges of this debate.
Just to be clear, easing things doesn't necessarily = cheating. It's the "nature" of how we ease things. New sports plays have been developed over the years out of nowhere, new MMA moves invented, etc. Things that make winning "easier". Steroids also make winning easier but are a stark contrast to things that are fair.
I fear the day we start calling people cheaters because they can count frames like counting cards in Vegas! 😂
@@hugejackedman3447 because you're competing against other players. No one gives a shit if you're using "cheatbox" at home. But if you're competing, isn't it fair to make it an equal game? Control pad is just as similar to vintage joystick. idk what do you mean "available tech at that time", control pad already exist at that time. We just use because to me, that's equal footing. Hitbox, CLEARLY has decreased frames when pulling certain moves. YOu mean to tell me that's fair on a competitive side?
@@musicmakespeace What I mean is that the very first coin-op game that came out like 70 years ago has a similar input design to the Hitbox, that is it was "leverless". Around 1972 or 73 Magnavox created the first "joystick" for computer entertainment. This was the available tech at the time and it stayed that way because nobody developed any alternative input devices until Nintendo's d-pad. (It was actually Intellivision however that did it first but who cares about Intellivision? lol)
And since keyboards were neither suitable to coin-op machines nor gaming consoles that means the tech that was used for arcades was a lever and for consoles a d-pad. Keeping in mind that a keyboard can do the same things a Hitbox can do, and that no console manufacturer was gonna design their consoles to use a keyboard or coin-op manufacturer gonna attach a keyboard to a coin-op machine it stands to reason that they used what was feasible right?
Now about advantages. What you are implying is that what is unfair is a mere input device is allowing you to do things that were impossible on previous input devices therefore its only fair if you are forcefully limited by the technology created 3 decades ago. Keep in mind that while hitbox does have advantages it also
Has disadvantages
Doesnt play nor win for you
Only makes certain inputs more feasible based on the physical design that was not feasible 30 years ago.
Decreased frames isn't 100% accurate, more like decreased execution time because frames are locked in based on source code. No controller can override what the game is designed to do. But I'll tell you a brief story. My half brother is like hardcore military. Has studied everything to do with war since his childhood. He has been banned from playing literally every FPS game out there because idiots think he's using an aimbot when he isn't even smart enough to know what one is! 🤣 Truth is he's a sociopath that just knows every historical tactic about killing from ancient Rome to today. So when he plays shooters he has actual advantages in terms of knowledge and just pure muscle memory and reflexes. He figured out a way to not only increase his hand eye coordination to max but also his finger speed.
I say all this just to say that the idea of game breaking advantages should never be seen as some sort of "unfair" advantage because finding any advantage (within rules) has always been a part of competition. I mean hell we see it all the time in Soccer right? 😂
Unless it wins games "for" you, it's not cheating. I'm sick of people associating the concept of having an edge over others with "unfair" or "cheating". There are a million and one things people do to improve or enhance output. Top performing fighters and athletes have access to NASA and military level tools and equipment that not all other fighters and athletes have access to. They have industry-leading nutritionists and trainers, (legal) supplements that speed up recovery and so on. They review tapes on their opponents all in the effort to "gain an advantage" over their opponents. THIS IS NOT CHEATING!
In competition you do all that you can "within legal regulations and guidelines" to gain an advantage so if it isnt against the rules IT AINT CHEATING. This controller does not win for you. You still hve to actually play the game, know "how" to play, outhink, outsmart your opponent, strategize and optimize the best offense/defense and react quickly to critical actions that could mean victory or defeat REGARDLESS of a controller that reduces input time.
The competition is not about who can do commands the best. It's not about who can use what controller the best. If Elon Musk's neuralink was feasible for gaming, I bet my wallet a gazillion gamers would jump on board because it's so much easier to execute the moves you want from a thought than to deal with a faulty piece of plastic and fiber optics that could at any point not execute a DP you are sure you input properly.
This exact input mechanism was actually the initial design for coin operated games sometime in the 1950s. Had it become the standard instead of some guy at Magnavox creating the "joystick" 20 years later, you'd ALL be playing Hitbox today! Enough is enough!
End rant.
Apologies.
Eh... Lots of sports ban equipment even if everyone could theoretically use today equipment. Swimming has banned suits and erunning has banned shoes, for example.
It's not just "everyone uses whatever equipment is best", the idea that equipment that is *too good* should be banned is an idea that is implemented across professional sports.
@@arglebargle5531 Totally different concepts here.
Yeah lots of things get banned BUT ONLY when those things oppose the guidelines set by athletic commissions. They dont just say "well this is too good ban it" or "well this isn't fair because it allows you to do certain things that aren't commonly feasible".
What I was talking about was the "use" of things that give a person an egde or advantage. And quite a many of those things are allowed right? You know what sort of training equipment NBA players get to use? Muscle enhancing machines and breathing devices you'll never ever see in a Gold's Gym or LA Fitness. Ever. Period. But these are not against the rules so therefore despite how "good" they are they aren't banned.
Steroids are a banned substance not simply because they give an unfair advantage but because they are already "illegal" to begin with as per both federal law and sport regulations.
Could even do a deep dive explaining how some bans are actually controversial. Example: The 12-6 elbow in UFC. It was banned about 2 decades ago not because it was "too good" but because the geniuses saw some old Karate footage and decided it was too dangerous! 🤣 Yet flying knees that cave in their skulls are fine.. 🤷♂
Or the high tech swimsuit controversy. Just for the sake of discussion allow me to say it's not comparable to the hitbox issue as that swimsuit doesn't just simply improve performance, it literally removes some levels of exertion that tax the body's endurance, which is what the competition is all about.
Hitboxes don't remove any effort on the part of the player, they just give access to functions that are less feasible on "some" other input devices. Things that are not impossible because of the game's design but because of the "controller" design. There is of course no SOCD on a d-pad because of the design of the d-pad. Same with the stick. Their designs alone make this impossible. This doesn't mean that you are cheating the game because you found a way to do it. The controller was not designed to do what the game tells it to do. It's the other way around. The game is designed to do what the "controller" tells it to do.
@@hugejackedman3447 This is untrue. Equipment that gets banned was only allowed to be used in the first place because the guidelines against it didn't exist. The banning generally occurs *after* the equipment has been used in sports and been determined to be too good (e.g., swimming).
Your examples of advantages are also off-base, as they do not involve equipment that gets used in games. In contrast, my rxamples: banned running, swimming, tennis gear, etc, is similar to the hitbox in that it is equipment that was used legally in-game before being banned for being too good.
@@arglebargle5531 only used "one" example that was unrelated and that was to give additional context to what I explicitly stated as a deeper look into things that are controversial. That was just a bonus.
Either way, we aren't talking decades ago when people didn't know better until the stuff was used then decided ok it cant be accepted. Hell even new football plays were called out at some point and there was deliberation, going over the rulebooks until it ws decided "well it's not against the rules so it's acceptable". "Sometimes" these decisions get challenged but sometimes they result in the adoption and adaptation of new tech and standards.
End of the day, what's one person's definition of too good may conflict with others so who decides? Gotta have an organized board of regulators for that one...
@@hugejackedman3447 This isn't decades ago. New equipment bans in swimming and running have come out in the last decade, with Nike AlphaFlys being banned in 2020 after athletes using them dominated the 2019 season.
7:56 Thanks for poiting it out, Justin! 👍
So the arguments are the games weren’t designed for it but ever since consoles became the standard for fighting games, the games companies made the games for their majority. Since pads can also do SODC (with analog stick) leverless is on par with what the majority of the player base is playing on
I've never used a hitbox, but just looking at it, I can't even imagine how to use this.
It's like typing your gameplay or something... Microsoft fighters🤷🏾♂️
whatever keeps pros and casuals playing to the best of their ability as long and as healthy as they can should always be an option.
not by breaking gaming mechanics
@@GamersOdyssey elaborate. You make the game account for all buttons controllers then it's not breaking mechanics, I think adjustments to socd is adequate and the line being drawn at Daigo's gaffrobox should be seen as a positive in that direction. Besides it's like Jwong said, leverless is harder in older games because there is more room for error doing the strict motion controls (you cant accidently input a direction twice in a row doing 720 on a stick for example) , it's the current trend of lax inputs that's giving them an edge over sticks. But people who are concerned with ergonomics will always choose buttons for the sake of their hands.
@@caiuscosades362it's not about what is harder or easier. It's about what is and isn't possible. There are things that can be done on hotbox that are physically impossible on other control formats.
@@rofltrolflyingfishlet him be, it's like steroid users that claim to be natty
The only time i've experience hand wrist pain on stick. Was when I didn't know wth I was doing on it. During the learning phase. Exerting excessive pressure and becoming tense causes strain.
I'm stick player through and through. 40 years old...grew up during the fighting game boom in the 90s. I remember in like 99 or 00 or whenever mugen came out...and I hated playing fighters on a keyboard. Hit box ain't for me...but I do see the market for others to be into it.
Personally I think the bigger reason to just allow it is accessibility. Who cares what controller a person uses to play a game. I find it much easier to play using a hit box style controller and to say “you’re not allowed to use it” only serves to gatekeep fighting games as a whole. Yes older games weren’t designed with it in mind but fighting games are much more a game of skill and mastery of all of the mechanics and matchup knowledge than it is what controller a person uses. I could never beat Justin Wong in a match of 3rd strike no matter what controller either of use since he has a a greater understanding of the mechanics. There is no reason to add arbitrary gates.
Hitboxes are significantly more expensive than arcade sticks and pads.
@@PlatinumMage your comment had nothing to do with anything being said here
@@PlatinumMage i just bought a hitbox for 30 bucks
I find it funny that Justin says it's harder to use them on older games.
Use them on older games is pretty easy once you figure out the time for stuff. They arent held up by the easy inputs it just makes them solid choice to a bit busted.
try to do Hugo's standing 720 on hitbox in third strike.
4:54 my man’s got a Vtuber stream in the background
i wish the box controllers were cheaper because i play on keyboard and that stuff breaks my fingies. i just can't get a feel for pads and sticks
Making one is pretty cheap and usually better since you can configure it how you want
also holy crap I got here before that Arakune Challenge guy!?
Damn panda editors you on that dicey dungeon ost? I see you
I am buying a hitbox in December for sure.
4:36 The stringless piano.
Y'all all know themainmanswe brings up the facts. Sodc defeated charge mechanism handicap
Appreciate the dicey dungeons music being used in the video. Solid choice
CPZ is forever king shit music 🎶
I would like to say that hitbox and keyboard(as well as pad) bring more accessibility for people who can't afford or use a fight stick, plus If everyone cheats, then no one will be(I don't think is cheating lol)
Hitbox are more pricey than a arcade stick
@@shaqthegr8884 hitbox is an easier switch from keyboard to tournament legal, keyboard sometimes comes with your pc and same story with pad and console
@@nekierin6402 I'm just saying that no way you're buying a hitbox for it's affordability.
That's cost a lot of money
@@shaqthegr8884 I never said that was the reason, plus hitbox can be made DIY with scod cleaning and being cheaper than an official one
@@nekierin6402 "hitbox and keyboard(as well as pad) bring more accessibility for people who can't afford or use a fight stick" Neki Erin 1 day ago
I know it's clickbait and really not that big an issue but from what I've learned of the FGC watching from the sidelines is that the answer is always "ADAPT"
Do you have any source of the reactions from the FGC players? Wanna see the full video of it.
What if they made a rule to prioritize the first input instead of last/neutral input. That should fix all the problem maybe?
Right, I have a feeling this can kinda be programmatically made less “cheap” but we’ll see.
Seems arcade sticks are the most "honest" controller.
We sadly are past the arcade generation so in order to level the competitive field and allow any type of controller going forward maybe the community can push game developers to maybe have a way in the game programing to disable sodc and thus neutralize any benefit one controller has over another but still allowing the comfortable form factor of the individuals choice?
you cant. the reason keyboard and hitbox is cheating is because these games were designed with being able to press the same opposing cardinal directions. they were designed for anything that can mimic how a stick works examples. the d-pad and or thumb stick on a controller. keyboards and hitboxes actually change the mechanics of how you make inputs and that is why it is unfair even with socd cleaning... i have a feeling once hitboxes/leverless dominate the tournament scene at that point they will probably just lose all most of if not all stick users.... and with all of the benefits i here of using hitbox are many and i never here about the downsides people say their are downsides and then never mention them. like what's the downside their all talking about? learning a new controller? coz once you become as proficient with one of these leverless over a stick or pad you literally skip inputs its fckn cheating.
The main reason why hitbox isn't cheating is because literally everyone has a keyboard in their house
Wild. People that grew up on arcade wanted to relive the arcade era and built arcade sticks to feel comfortable.
Now a new generation that grew up with keyboards want something with familiarity.
JFC cry y’all or switch. 🤷♂️
"Yo, check the SOC"
I'll hit YOUR box!
I genuinely feel like the hitbox is intuitive. Coming from pc rhythm games it just feels natural.
as a keyboard player, hitbox is my only option to play in tournaments as most tourneys you cant play kb
Boy said that mustache is clean 😂😂
Let's be honest; people wouldn't use Hitbox if it didn't offer them a competitive advantage over people who aren't using it. It's literally a case of buying third party hardware, to gain an advantage. Whether we call it cheating, or not, it definitely is in the category of pay-to-win. For the same reason that gamers don't tolerate paid advantages in software (pay to win), gamers shouldn't tolerate paid advantages in hardware either. Just use the normal stuff that your console came with.
Now PC is the Wild West. The default hardware is a mouse and keyboard. And the Hitbox is just a keyboard with fewer buttons. Let PC people do whatever the hell they want with their mouse and keyboards. Just separate tournaments, like a lot of FPS and battle royal games do, into PC/console. That way, everyone is on the same playing field in their respective scenes.
Honestly, I don't know why fighting games have this problem with allowing all this crazy third party hardware. I've even seen people literally making their own monstrosity versions of Hitbox out of cardboard. You don't see people in the FPS scene bringing home-made motion sensor guns to competitive scenes. They play with the normal hardware of their respective platforms. It really shouldn't be difficult for fighting games to catch up to that. Just my opinion.
yeah it's comparable to the edge that people get when they use mouse/keyboard in FPS games against console players. we all know that. you can input shit faster, and more accurately using those PC tools. anybody that tries to deny that is just full of it. and people do it specifically for that reason. they're looking for that edge over people that haven't bought a leverless controller. and flat out, that ain't fair. so I'm gonna call it cheating outright.
You do realize that same can be said for sticks and pads as well? There are particular mods for both types of controllers. Also the main reason people use leverless controllers is that they're much more ergonomic and don't cause arthrites while trying to do simple combos
@@tabkg5802 Someone using a regular controller doesn't have a paid advantage over another person using a regular controller. Any weird modded things that maybe you're thinking of (maybe turbo buttons, or something like that?) do not fall within the realm of "normal stuff that your console came with" that I was talking about. So, I can't agree that the same can be said for controllers, sorry.
This issue with monstrous custom control devices is something that should have never gotten off the ground Imo. No other genre of competitive game has this issue... at least, not that I know of.
@@tabkg5802 hey, if Brolylegs can play with a controller, you can too. no excuses for the cheat box brother lol.
Sticks don't come with a console so ACCORDING TO YOU!!! that shouldn't be allowed either
The solution is to ban everything that is not a traditional arcade stick so no one can use shortcuts, for regular controllers limit the use of analog stick and pad at the same time, choose only one.
Damn Kizzie made me laugh so hard with his comments, I love him!
Arakune combo trials when?
they skipped the comparison between fighting games and first person shooters
My next is gonna be stickless
what did you say? next your gonnah be Dlckless? oh dear
Y’all bugging talking about get rid of the pads. Nobody gonna hold their controller like that in order to SOCD. Nobody their right mind gonna say pads have a higher advantage over Stick or Hitbox. Y’all bending over backwards to defend Hitbox lol
Pads do have an advantage over stick. Not only are they silent which helps in a tournament setting where sometimes you’re sitting right next to your opponent, but the travel distance between directions on a pad are much shorter than on a stick. You can input motions like quarter circle, half circle, and 360 a lot faster on pad than you can on stick.
I used to use d-pads on controller in fighting games because it's more efficient to do things with it, you can press down on d-pad and then flick up on the stick to do the very same thing you can do on keyboard or other leverless controller
Is it cheating? No.
Will I ever stop calling it 'the cheatbox'? Also no.
I use a hitbox and call it cheatbox its just too funny
Cheating or not (it’s not), cheatbox is an absolute banger name
@@harrylane4 its cheating. the pad problem could be easily fixed with a simple option disabling either the d-pad or thumbstick during gameplay players choice.
Hitbox was designed for marvel 2 and not marvel 3?
I've used a keyboard before. It's just digital input.
wait.. cant i do the same with a keyboard?
At this point they should release a controller with every competetive game to make it fair for everyone xD
After much thought about it this conversation is just stupid. Its not the controllers fault. Game devs should code their games to do whats allowed and whats not allowed
hitbox was literally conceived, designed and created because some people that were trying to get good at mvc2 were sick off missing inputs of their own error. hitbox was literally designed to gain an advantage. its cheating. how is it even a debate. what the actual fook
Yeah, and they should also ban analog stick use while the dpad is being used. Kinda like how COD asks for your input before loading into a match. Playing pad while being against hitbox is not hypocritical. Almost no normal person is playing with their left analog stick with their ring finger or some bullshit pressing face buttons. I get its bad for tourneys but its not a realistic concern versus an input that was literally designed to allow SOCD
just like most game options now these days they allow you to remap the buttons on your pad. why they have not made an option to simply select the use of either the d-pad or thumbstick disabling the other is beyond me. it would be a tiny update. then hitbox users would have 0 argument. i cant stand it wen they bring that point up as a defense for hitbox.
Atleast admit that you have a massive advantage. One day I'll import a hitbox, not because it's "cool" but because of the benefits.
Kizzie saying ban pad too is kinda wild
glad to see so many good takes. last thing we need to do is cut off a large percentage of the player base.
Couldn't they just make it prioritize down and forward and remove most of the shortcuts? I'm not super versed on the whole socd mess cause I'm a stick boomer but it seems the fact that it prioritizes jump and makes forward and back become neutral is the reason you get all these silly shortcuts and free flash kicks. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows. I'll be playing on stick till the day I get arthritis. Brain too smol for box
I think the hitbox is neat but I’d prefer a pad or stick
Yeah, push the limits of the rules. It's how innovation happens.
Does it give you an advantage? Yes. Is it cheating? No. There were exploits people could do on pad that are made easier with hitboxes but we don't ban pad so...
Sorry Cola, I know what SOCD means for a few years now
Man, Boomer Kay out here getting really offended by the truth. :P
very simple fighting game devs incorporate an option to only enable the d-pad or thumb stick only disabling the other. problem solved. how do you fck up wave dash on a hitbox? you basically cant mess it up. its cheating
Why did kizzy gets so offended with the boomer moniker
It isnt cheating, just a bunch of people whining. Theres always arguments about hardware advantage when people start losing. There were the same arguments for pad and even for fight sticks. Stfu and run it back.
All throughout the 90s:
~My d-pad stuck.
~It's worn out. (that one can be true sometimes)
~I can only play on Sega controllers I can't play on SNES controllers.
~You playing on that arcade stick. I don't have all those directions on my controller.
~Your buttons click better and mine are flat.
My favorite excuse was how I was winning because "I know all their special moves". 🤣
They are trying to compare this as if it was aim assist for pad users in shooters. It's ridiculous.
Right when I play my friends in fighting games.
“You know all these combos, chill.”
When they can take the time to learn but choose not too. Thats like complaining that someone has map knowledge over you in a shooting game 😂 learn the map and practice your aim
If everyone switches to Hitbox then no one has an advantage
The paradise
Hitbox/Leverless isnt cheating but it may be sad to see other inputs fall to the wayside if people enjoy them more i.e. lever fightstick. The crossup is cheating however as it puts two sets of the same functions on the input device to bypass the games system to make it easier. It is honestly one step away from macros
All this being said if people want to retain fight stick tournaments they can make all fight stick tournaments kinds of how some shooter games have console and controller tournaments instead of people using mnk
Hitboxes are cheating you can basically get away with Moves on fighting game that you can't perform on the pad or stick which I find to be cheating
It's cheating, unless you own one like me.
Dicey Dungeons music!
Anyone saying Hitbox is cheating is stupid.
On hitbox you can make moves (like pushing back and forwards at the same time) that isn't even possible on lever. That's end of discussion because it's not opinion but fact bro why you guys keep defending hitbox? I mean you should play on w/e you want on your own but in competition hitbox gives you clear advantage if you can spend the time to learn it.
I don’t play hitbox and I don’t think it’s cheating. People just like to complain because they can’t use it. Most of the dudes complaining would get wrecked if they jump to a hitbox lol
The more I read the more I see only excuses to justify the incapability to do something hard. Why do you think some moves in games are very strong but hard to pull off?? Execution which required hard work, pain, time and dedication. If anyone can do it with some weeks of practice or even days than the game lost the purpose to differentiate characters for their strengths and compensate for this. Do you want to use the cheatboxes ( mixbox and hitbox)? Fine, you can do it at home, same for keyboard just for fun with some friends. Your hands or wrist hurt to much? Maybe go to take care of yourself before engaging in something you can't do, health comes first. Stop making excuses for yourself to justify your limits and boundaries. I play stick and pad on Tekken 7 on high level as a deserved TGP. Being able to do a Pewgf in days because you can use more fingers on few buttons is regression not progression. Your playing a videogame, not a piano with 88 keys.
Fair play and ethics, these unknown words now a days. If you can't do something to improve, the solution is certainly not dragging down the good players in order to help people which simply can't do it for different reasons. This is simply unrespectful to those who put genuine real hard work in the FGC. And i didn't even talk about the unfair advantages of the. Cheatboxes.
The fact they implemented shortcuts for using leverless tells me it IS cheating, and Capcom is in on it 😂
One button one action, soc is cheating hitbox without soc is gucci
Just program your games to only accept the inputs that you want them to accept. Then all the jank-ass controllers in the world can't help.
From an outsider looking in, it feels as if a hitbox should resolve all double inputs as neutral, this mimics the need to roll the lever to the other side, how to enforce this? well, that's harder to do, for online games, the game or online provider should make sure no SODC is occurring, for in person tournaments a hardware adapter that reads the inputs before sending them to the console could be developed.
can still physically press socd though allowing you to manipulate the way inputs are supposed to be input even with the socd cleaning there are shortcuts and directional manipulations you can do. fighting games were never meant to be played on anything that can press physically press socd. other wise they would have been hitbox style cabinets from day 1. would have been cheaper to build and maintain over sticks. they used sticks because the only controls that work properly with fighting games are as i said controllers you cant physically press socd on ... :(
If you prefer fightstick, it means you began playing in arcades, OR it means you let fightstick users brainwash you. Therefore, you can not be old, but you have the mind of an old, cranky, dogmatic and biased geezer. Believe me, I know because I'm one.
That being said, leverless is objectively better in every aspect except in specifically making half and complete circles. This is plain fact.
Cheating is not related to this fact. Cheating relates to the intended input design of the game and the construction of the tournament rules. Properly designed games will not allow abuses, properly layed tournament rules will avoid cheats without any problem. Any other take is just emotional opinion without real value. Even if you felt left behind like an old cranky biased geezer, sorry.
In the end, the real problem here is: fightsicks are an AWFUL design. Believe me, I know, because I may be an old geezer, but I'm also an industrial designer.
Depends. Are the games designed for arcade sticks or hitbox controllers. For example. Anyone who is being honest can tell you that you use mouse and keyboard when playing fps. If there is no auto-aim working in the background of the game. So if anyone tells you that it doesn't matter, they are lying to you. So you have to look at it the same way for a hitbox vs an arcade stick. Either there is an advantage or there isn't one. If there is, then it is cheating to use it. But however you want to take the word, "advantage" is up to the FGC to decide.
That boomer comment made me feel so old and I'm only 23 goddamn
I'm still using xbox360 controller coz it's comfy to me, arcade still it's so loud to me
I would need a hitbox with a WASD layout lol
the mixbox!
So, the mixbox?
@@Invictus-Solaris or just a keyboard but yeah
Keyboard is better, but unroftunately it can't be use fun tournaments. Tbh the best way is to make your own cheatbox with both wasd+space buttons. If you're feeling particularly wild you can add 2nd set of motion controls to use in Tekken 7
Hard to do 360s with WASD. I think that's why they turned jump into a thumb button, you can just roll your fingers for full circular movement.
As a hitbox player myself i can say after months of practice... I'm worse on hitbox for the lack of easy 360. (In all seriousness all controllers have there advantages and I think hitbox does help me as I miss input less often but I feel weaker on air combos as the actual motion is less natural than on other controllers. the main advantage is purely the speed of which you can input supers and specials but the more complex and precise the actual input HAS to be then the more you feel the draw back of the controller.)
I already have a Hitbox but maybe it's time for me to get a new one
As long as Capcom and other game developers make sure all games are like SF6 with no proximity guard and you can block anytime unlike SF5 things will be fine.
on the other had, if Hitboxes get more popular, all the old games will disappear because those old games have harder inputs.
If you don't know what proximity block is, your opinion doesn't mean jack.
Bit late here, but I'm planning to play Tekken 8 and Street Fighter 6 as my first fighting games and did a lot of research on controllers. I want to pick up the Hitbox Crossup because it has a clear advantage against stick. I actually want to play stick, but I know I'll lose online to people when practicing that have any hitbox and that just doesn't seem fair.
Honestly, I feel weird seeing pro players switch from stick to buttons.
The reason I use an all button controller is that I've been playing Mortal Kombat on PC DOS since I was 4 years old and have gotten used to playing everything on a keyboard, so the all button controller is the only one that feels natural to me. But when people spend time to learn using a tool they're not used to just because it may give them an advantage - that feels weird.
HITBOX WOOOO
Panda getting paid by hitbox now lol. The best players like Tokido and Daigo literally have had streams dedicated to showing how broken it is for years
In tekken it allows you to side step to opposite direction wc which you cant on arcade stick so it is cheating
Kizzie the Boomer.
The older generation will always hate/gate keep on the newer generation, doesn’t matter what or who it is. This will pass, the old men will get tired and go play Bingo.
You are doing things on a hitbox that is IMPOSSIBLE to do on an arcade stick, how is that so hard to grasp? You guys aren't winning tourneys anyways, but you can't deny that hitbox users have an advantage...
Cheatbox
Imagine not being able to type your neutch smh my head.
Hitbox isnt cheating because ANYONE can use them if they want, they aren't exclusive to anyone.