As a 5w4, I’m not into science or math, but I’m into psychology and history and mythology, especially ancient history because there are many mysteries there, and mythology because I like figuring out what certain things in mythology might symbolize in the real world, and connections between different mythological systems, stuff like that. I’m interested in breaking things down and researching mysteries and taking info and making inferences and connecting dots, that’s why I want to go into forensic science. I’m not into hard facts and formulas, I like when there are things to be debated and left to the imagination, things that need to be inferred.
I can relate. I'm for the most part balanced with both my wings. But I too am interested in the same things mentioned above. Fascinated in paranormal too. Yet I'm also extremely logical and analytical. However was never big on science except for forensic science. I'm a huge mystery lover.. and Stephen king fan...I also love documentaries. Watching video I feel I can relate to both wings regularly in different parts and aspects of my life.
I'm 5w4 and I have seen a lot of videos talking about the 5 being this kind of "emotionless" person. But I would say that 5s are actully scare of feeling because they can feel to much and want to protect themselves, what makes them more private and less expresives, keeping everything to themselves. Because of the Detachment 5s tend to anlyze and think their feelings, trying to understand them more than letting themselves just feel them, making them more self-consious and more "in control" but the side effect is them being seen as this "emotionless" more rational people, that's why is hard to brake the wall to their life, because the 5s themselves don't want to feel "expose" and in risk of their feeligs being invalidated or misstreated. That's also why only some can actully get to know them, the 5s choose to who they trust enough to open the door to the castle (as you put it) and that's why those who are able to get in usually stays. Keep using your "Castle" reference, maybe that's why 5s tend to be in the search of knowledge (as basic as some information can be), to fullfill that big empty castle and that "lack of emotion" they have and sometimes feel. Conciously or not. But I can't really know, that's just an interpretation. When we talk about emotions, feelinga and personallity, nothing is 100% certain.
I'm a 5w4 and really identified with this description, enough so to even consider posting a reply which is very unusual for me. This really highlights the journey I've been on for the past 5 years since my Dad unexpectedly committed suicide. That event did so much to highlight the need for healthy expressive emotion. Although hard, it's definitely been the right path to take towards being more open and expressive. It was the push I needed to break through the fear of the unknown world. I've also been fortunate enough to meet an amazing 2 along the way who helps immeasurably.
It’s strange. I’ve taken the Myers Briggs test and I was an INTP and then the enneagram test and I was a 5. Of course, the description fits me to a T but the only thing that I didn’t really identify with was being “emotionless.” I have emotions and strong ones at that. I thought I might have been mistyped, but after a couple attempts of the same test, I was still the same INTP and type 5. Though I am an emotional person, I hate having these feelings. I tend to always analyze why I feel the way I do... and how I can rise above it. I wish I could be stoic but I’m not. Your description of a 5w4 is a perfect description of me. I’m not emotionless. I have emotions and that’s a fact. When I’m angry, I shake in anger and stutter. When I’m sad, I cry. But I will always think about why I feel the way I do and wish I wouldn’t have such extreme feelings.
As a 5w6, the way that I look at social interaction is that it takes a lot of work, I feel like I'm spinning my wheels a lot. So it isn't that I have less energy, it is burned more in large social interactions. When I have connected with someone I can talk for hours. When I struggle to connect and am left to my own devices at a party, I feel like a car with a bad starter/sparkplugs spending way more gas to stay engaged and I quickly wish I was anywhere else. My favorite type of connection is when my presence is appreciated, not demanded. I want to be perceived as competent, I love having the right answer to problems. I hate it when I'm wrong, which makes me more open to correction but less likely to take risks. I'm a pilot, it is a challenging career that is easy to be adequate, easy to mess up, but hard to master. I am part of a small team and it makes my day when my passengers compliment my landings. I also have to study a lot, on the aircraft systems, on crew policies, on emergency procedures, airport procedures, aircraft incidents and accidents, and it's something I enjoy doing. It's a macabre past time of mine to try to find the point where the flight could have been saved. I'm a quintessential problem solver, not that I'm the best at it, I just like solving problems.
For, me as a 5w6, I have discovered that many people are simply too fickle to deal with. One minute they are seeking me for friendship, and the next minute, they either become my enemies, or decide that I have no importance.... It can be tiresome to deal with such inconsistence. Many people seem unstable to me, at times... For these reasons, it is all too easy to remain introverted, and detached from the world.
Type 5 here: 5w6 (Investigator): practical thinking (what is), objective, more concrete in thinking, and not connected with emotions of self and others. Detail oriented. Connected with reality and can become focused on nihilism due to seeing reality for what it is (harsh and uncaring; what is) rather than for what it can become with work; what if). 5w4 (Philosopher): theoretical thinking (what if), abstract thinking, intuitive, and more connected with emotions and emotions of others. Big picture oriented. Fantasy oriented and disconnected at times from reality. Hence the tendency towards existentialism: reality is what I think.
5w4 here..! Your description resonates with me. I have a philosophy channel with all kinds of subjects, but I must say that I'm particularly drawn to Carl Jung's stuff about the Shadow and the Anima/Animus which is pretty dark stuff imho. I've been working on a novel (about a monastery) for years now, and boy oh boy.. there's some morbid stuff in there. Being a demonologist sounds pretty interesting :)
I think 5w4s would be more drawn towards philosophy, psychology and the arts, while 5w6s would be more drawn towards math, physics and other hard sciences.
@@Audio-apps You can have balanced wings, which means you can use both of them equally or fluctuate between them. You can be a 5 with balanced 4 and 6 wings, meaning you use both. You most likely still use one more than the other; it's pretty rare for someone to have perfectly balanced wings.
@@Audio-apps i am mainly a type 1, with 4, 5, and 6 as my wings. I know every blind believer in enneagram THEORY will say thats wrong or impossible, but not everyone fits into nice neat boxes. Having a wing that is only the number next to yours is an illogical system.
As a 5w4 I feel that my approach is more speculative and imaginative, yet guided by a strong intuitive knowing, connecting all the dots to create a coherent and meaningful larger picture, less focussed on fact checking the details or achieving an expertise in a certain field of study
I’m a 5w6-no doubt. You described me very well. We isolate to recharge to reengage with people/community for very brief periods of time, and then recharge again. We are just born with limited energy. Plus, we are digesting very complex and new ideas constantly, which takes energy to assimilate in our minds. We want to know all of the things!!! We have had failed relationships, so we feel data is more secure.
I think part of being a 5 is realizing that when you need something from people, they can give you what fulfills you but then take it away if you don't follow their expectation. If you don't need that thing from them, they will have a harder time threatening you with removing that thing. It's about trust.
Partially agree. I'm a 5w4 with passion for existentialism and nihilism. However, these two branches (expecally existentialism) could be considered as less "hard science" compare to epistemology/logic/metaphysics. Also, rather than being attracted by rigorous reasoning, 5w4 may love these branches beacuse of the deconstructions towards norms.
I'm a 5-4-8 and I'm a sworn enemy of nihilism and anything that holds a flag with a zero on it. I believe that the ultimate goal of humanity is to beat the shit out of that zero.
I agree with you but I also agree with him that we're less focused on the hard science. philosophy is all about the constructs of ideas rather than data
This was soooo excellent. I recently just discovered after 7 years, that I'm actually a 5 w 4 wing, not a 4. Something often absent from descriptions of 5s how they can be feeling / emotional. Female 5s have huge risk of mistyping as 4s (see misidentifications), because they sense they have strong emotions, yet read all these simple type descriptions which give the impression that fives aren't emotional. Learning about the Iconoclast, I have discovered I can keep what 4 traits most related to, but now properly understand myself in a more accurate way. I am deeply creative, feeling, intuitive, and drawn to authenticity, but am also extremely cerebral and investigative and withdrawn. I am always trying to understand peoples behaviors, motivations, feelings, expressions by studying psychological topics intensively and observing people. I don't fully get how to be social and interact with people, and believe that if I just keep studying more, I'll figure out how to fit in better and behave in a more socially correct way. But then I'm up in my head doing all of this, and meanwhile totally avoiding interacting with people.
Jesus christ it's like looking in a mirror. Spend all your time observing yet totally useless in social situations in practice. I'm currently trialling a mixture of CBT and throwing myself in the deep end socially, trusting that practice makes perfect
@@ryanchamberlain9039 Right on! Yeah, I find as a 5, that is the way to go. Put yourself out there, do your best even if you feel awkward or uncomfortable. Showing up counts! I tend to like being around 2s, 7s and 6s, I find many of them don't even notice the awkwardness cuz they are so chatty anyway, and will make up for what I lack. I find being around other 5s (if introverted or in withdrawal mode) or 3s (judgy, superficial) are the hardest to connect with. Sometimes 8s too, they are also quick to judge and zone in on or point out others weaknesses. Finding people you feel safe and accepted around is everything. Also being mindful and self-accepting, not everyone is easy to connect with and some people may not be worth your time/energy for various reasons.
I feel seen.. I’m still not sure if I’m a 5 or a 4 exactly, but the fact that I won’t stop researching until I figure it out is making me lean more towards a 5 now
I am a 5w4 and you nailed me. The Iconoclasts. Yeah. I really enjoyed this. Thank you. Stephen King is my favorite author. Makes sense he is a 5w4. And I doubt many if any 5w4 would be offended by statements that we are intrigued by the dark. It's true. And, like you said, not for the wrong reasons, but for the reason of wanting to understand, to figure it out, to utilize or thwart. This was delightful. I am an INTJ as well. And I love researching. It is what I do for fun. I research everything before I endeavour it. Thank you for this. It delighted me.
I'm a 5w4 and I feel like there's a misconception around 5s and emotions. Perhaps in childhood, there is a somewhat conscious decision to detach from emotions, possibly because those emotions were not safe around our parents. In my case, my mother was always the emotional one, so I felt like I wasn't allowed to cry because she was already doing it for the both of us, and SOMEBODY had to be the adult. But now as an adult, I don't deliberately detach from my feelings. They are simply NO LONGER ACCESSIBLE to me. I can tell there's a huge amount of emotion below the surface, and I can do guided meditations and work with therapists and do all sorts of things to try and access it, but it's usually extremely difficult. I would love to be able to feel my feelings! I would love to be able to share in that with other people! Just because I'm not readily able to access emotions does not mean they're not there. It is often a source of frustration and disappointment, in fact, to not be able to cry when it would be appropriate - and often when I do (finally) start crying, I can't stop, probably because there are many layers of grief there that haven't been expressed. That said, it IS a handy tool to be able to be rather emotionless when you have certain careers - I work with grievers and I consider it a gift to be able to sit with grieving people without being consumed by their grief. The other thing I feel that is slightly misinterpreted is this pulling back from relationships/people who require too much energy. I feel like this is necessary in order for me to survive. I feel like as a 5, we've been given an incredibly powerful mind - like a mobile phone with the latest and most intelligent apps - but with an inadequate battery. We have so many background apps running at once - in my case the Mom App, which has 25 reminders and to-dos at any given time, but also the Research App, the Interesting Topics app, etc. etc. which all use an incredible amount of power in the background. Phone suddenly rings? BAM! 25% less battery just by being startled by the phone and then having to talk to someone you weren't expecting. Doorbell rings? BAM! 25% less battery for having an unexpected interaction. So it's 3pm, my kids and husband aren't even back from school or work yet, and I'm already down to about 30% of my battery. How will it last until bedtime if I don't conserve my energy? So yes, we avoid people who are too needy, dramatic, loud, etc. so that we have enough battery JUST TO MAKE IT THROUGH THE DAY. It's seriously a survival mechanism for me, not a choice. I wonder if that rings true for any other 5s here?
Libby hey , just recently (like 5 minutes ago) discovered that i am also a 5w4. I truly relate to what you have described. Suddenly, i think that i understand myself better. I lost my mother when i was 5 years old and i guess it played a huge role into my decision to detach from emotions. I can honestly not remember a time where i was an emotional type of person. But i know that the emotions are there, but like you said, having access to them is difficult. When i am crying it feels that i am letting EVERYTHING out, i cry for all the things at the same time
Wow, your childhood is just exactly how you described mines! Also I can agree with the crying part but there is nothing besides music that can resonate with me. I tried therapy and all but thats just the only way for me to express my feelings. I think this makes since we are also very creative (It might be different since im an Infj 5w4 though)
I can completely relate about the feelings or rather lack there off, and being drained by people in general. The resulting boredom and empthyness for not having proper acces to ones feelings have had my try just about everything to establish at least some kind of contact to my feelings, but its very hard, since feelings can be a lot draning to. ISTP 5w6
5w4 here and I resonate with researching/understanding the demonologist/dark/taboo subjects- such as mental illness, suicide, trauma, but also tantric sex, energy healing and hypnotherapy. Also resonate with the 5w6 aspects as well.
Same, I've researched a lot of similar subjects as well and I often get weird looks when I talk about it LOL. Thinking about career options, I'd be an excellent Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher.... 😝🤣
Hello, 5w4 (INTJ) lady here. I was 35 yo before I found out I was a 5. Before that I thought something was wrong with me because I was more like a man, personality wise, than a woman. I thought that feelers were weak and had no respect for them. When I found out that I was a rare personality type, I was reborn! I wasn't defective, I was just rare. The enneagram type fit we very well but not perfectly. Enter the enneagram into my mind. The combination of 5 with some 4 was perfect. Very glad I discovered this information.
5w4 here. Rebirth and innovation often comes after destruction, darkness and chaos. I'm equally drawn to the artistic and hard science. Think about astrophysics.. a perfect connection between science and pushing beyond the boundaries of the unknown.
I hate being a 5w4. I hate how I am. When I was in highschool I always saw my life differently. More than 10 years later, it's worse than I thought. These descriptions are very much me. Some even felt like personal attacks at how specific they were. I hate that I'm such a deep introvert. I never used to. I've pushed people away by accident, some for good just because it's how my default program is. I hate the lense over my eyes with how I naturally see and interact in the world. I hate it all. I hate myself. I'm not suicidal, but I fear that I will take myself to a point of accidentally pushing everything away, sacrificing everything until I have nothing left and I wake up realising what I've done, in my 30s or 40s with nothing to live for. I don't want to be around anymore.
Hi. I understand that I am 2 years late to the comment but I can relate to you very deeply. Most of these things that shape us are out of our control. Often as Type 5s, we feel as if we are in completely different planets despite existing in the same place as others. You have definitely felt misunderstood. The people that you pushed away often do not seem to be on the same wavelength as you. You do not want to bother explaining the things that happen internally as you would be misjudged or perceived in a way that is negative. Here, you have stumbled on this video seeking for answers as to why you function the way you are. One thing I can say for certain is that you have found people you can relate to. Do not lose your spark yet. Your high-school da may have been long gone and, even if we can get melancholic of the past it’s important to know that it doesn’t define who you are right now. Yes, I’m aware this comment is around 2 years old but, I’m sure you’ve found your people who you can atleast count on. I don’t know who quoted this but “During the dark storms - bright sunny days follow”. Keep moving forward and try not to get too caught up in the future and past. Remember your uniqueness is a gift. Embrace it and keep your head up high.
I'm a 5w4. I can definitely confirm what you said about our value of information and knowledge in combination with a desire for novelty and uniqueness. I can also confirm the part about 5w4 being disruptive, but at least for me personally, it's not so much for the sake of pure innovation or finding better ways of doing things. For me, the underlying motivation is the discovery of ultimate truth, and I am constantly trying to get the mass amounts of information I absorb and collect to converge at some point that would indicate I am getting closer to that truth. If I find some error in common beliefs or systems, or stumble upon a novel idea along the way, it is what it is. In fact, I'd expect as much. I think that could also be related to the steering away from hard sciences. I majored in biomedical physics in college and worked for a short time in biomedical engineering, but I quickly turned away from that as well as other studies and pursuits in the hard sciences because it wasn't getting me closer to the truth I was looking for which is more of an existential truth. And I think that points to the reason for our interest in dark or taboo things. It takes only a brief glance at human history or human psychology to see that human beings have a dark side that we must all acknowledge is present within each of us if we ever want to have a chance to fully understand ourselves and what we're capable of. So for me, it's by no means just some morbid curiosity. ANYWAY. I also relate to the other stuff. One time, I pulled an all-nighter learning about car engines because my check engine light went on, and I didn't want to be perceived as incompetent when I took it to get fixed the next day. I couldn't stand the thought of getting ripped off because I lacked knowledge on how an engine works. Great video! Thanks for sharing :)
5w4 here. Very on point analysis. I've spent a lot of my life not to fitting in with people socially. And also not trying to fit in anywhere. Few very close friends. I've tried several career options, always creativity based, and never quite fulfilling enough. 'On to the next one' sounds like a good motto for 5w4. I am nearing 30 and leaning into the 6 wing is definitely helping me personally. The world around 5's can seems like an infinitely sized chess game where people are pieces with certain rules guiding them. This can feel like we have the upper hand or have this jaded sense of knowing. However, reading these guiding movements people take (i.e. fears, anxieties, loves, humor, etc) can be very beneficial for 5's in gaining a strong 6 wing, thereby having stronger relationships, more relationships, and connections. After all, that's what you get in this life!
As a 5w4, and a medical professional, I can speak to the “hard science” point. I think that was an excellent point, and as someone who had made a career out of science, the “hard sciences” would be chemistry, physics, microbio, etc whereas I have a passion and a talent for philosophy, sociology, and psychology (softer sciences). I would’ve went I to those fields but the money is just not worth the time invested, and I want that safety and comfortability that comes from knowing money will never be an issue for me with my career path.
Ive always confused myself with 4s but i feel so understood right now as a 5w4 "We dont need anything from you and we also dont want you to need anything from us" If i could describe myself in a line this would be it
Great video, I loved it. INFJ 5w4 here. That fear you talked about 5's having growing up is what i had which led me to read people and situations now without trying. I'm new to the whole Enneagram world and scored a 5w4 which answers some questions about me being an INFJ(Many many years and sometimes turn to a INFP). I have empathy for many people but you're right about detaching from people which sometimes make me question the INFJ in me. I love going out to be social and talking to one or two people at a time but not anymore then that. I can fit into any crowd or situation because i can read it and not out of place. I wanted to go along with the video and write how i felt during each explanation but it was just go on and on and I've already written enough. lol Great video again :) thanks
@@facethanatos Really appreciate this, Face! :) Regarding your comment from some months ago, are you "solidified" in your perception of what your MBTI and Enneagram type is? Is it INFJ 5w4 "still"? :D I've been.. somewhere in between and have somehow left the 5w4 vs 4w5 "open" for 3,5 years, but those are truly what I resonate with. I do somehow resonate with the 9 in many ways too so it is.. hmm! Been into Enneagram hardcore again for the first time in a long time and trying to well.. solidify my main type, and the other day I was almost convinced that 4 is the dominant, but then I had a real "5-day" and went into searching more about the 5 again from various perspectives and sensory/informational input, and my God, the 5w4 is just as likely, both in expression and "cause". Hope you are doing well
Thank you for this video. I’m a 5w4 and I feel like a lot of information about enneagram and especially type 5 is kind of shallow... I want the most in-depth info I can get! I feel like type 5 often gets kind of passed over like “Type 5, y’all are good at knowing stuff, good on ya!” This was one of the most helpful and accurate things I’ve seen to date. I feel seen and understood and validated. Thank you!
A 5w4 infj here! I must say for 35 years I thought I didnt have emotions, I couldn’t express anything myself but i was always feeling for other people. The reality is that I feel so deeply that I guess i blocked myself in mode of protection. I’m híper sensitive person, after my spiritual awakening and shadow work I freed myself of that shell and I’m not afraid anymore to be who i am in total essence. My addiction is listen to videos and getting information all day long. I live with my headphones on! People says to me: Danna, if you are wearing headphones all day we can not talk to you and I answer: that the idea!!! Lol.. I love everything that is in the occult but I don’t like to go so deep in the dark dark things, I know that exist but I rather don’t get involved in that low frequency. What I love is to know peoples minds, personality disorders, childhood traumas, hypnosis, psychology, the power of the subconscious mind, universal laws, astrology, the astral world, spirits, entities, the beings of other dimentions and of course, quantum physics! My life literally change when I learnt how energy works! My soul purpose is to guide people during the spiritual awakening. Great video. Thank you.
This video was awesome. I'm couldn't decide between 5w4 and 5w6, but your description of a 5w4 was spot on. I grew up in a Christian home with strict parents, so I couldn't do all of the research I really wanted to into the Occult, but my friend in school told me about the code in the Bible that told the future and really blew my mind (I don't really believe it anymore, but it was cool at the time lol). Since moving out, I've done a ton of research and discovered more about the Occult, but still being a Christian I kind of want to find out about this dark stuff (human trafficking, all the evil in politics and elite) in order to expose it. It tickles me that people are slowly waking up to the evil in the world and I'm helping in my small way. Also, my fiance is a 6w5, so he's been really good about balancing me out and helping me be more of a prepper lol.
I think I created a fortress because I had a controlling + hostile mother. Then, shutting myself and minimizing my needs was a natural response to avoid these feelings of being confronted and invaded.
Believe me, I have been in ministry for about 30 years now and have seen some stuff...There have been a few times when I wish I had a demonologist by my side...🙈🙈🙈
I identify with that darker side comment, lol. I’m a 5w4, ENTP, who loves Psychology & History, and seeks to understand the darker shadow side of things in order to bring them to the light and heal the wounds of the past. I’m tracking for clinical psychology, although I might now consider demonology as a career path... j/k 🤣
I’m a 5w4. I always say I prefer to observe my emotions from a safe distance. Occasionally when I’m alone at night, I’ll take the emotions out of their box and feel them, and then put them safely back. ...I’m commenting as I’m listening and I just heard the prickly comment and it made me chuckle because as a kid I decided the flower that most described me was the thistle. Prickly.
In a society that really builds upon you the idea of connections, especially in kid's TV shows, I've never really felt quite understood when it comes to my relationships with people. There has been a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to putting in "effort" or "actually" caring about someone. It's hard to find people who understand that you do care about people without needing a lot of emotional connection. Since I've discovered enneagrams and mbti types, it has given me some comfort with the person I am.
As a 5w4 I'm an overactive thinker, which takes me away from the moment and I can stay there for a long time. I even zone out when I'm with others when the conversations are not intellectually stimulating. I once said to some friends that I often seek to use a mental framework to understand reality, but that's a coping mechanism I think. I believe that emotional awareness and intuition can be a superpower for 5w4s. When we turn our hearts and heads on simultaneously, we find meaning in mundane things.
5w4 here and I agree with you so much. I've always been drawn to mythology and different religions, true crime, etc. Nice to know that Stephen King is on my team, one of my favorite authors.
Spot on. I’m a 5w4, married to a 6w5, who has taught me to express both sides of my five-ness. I definitely have the worst 5 traits, but have seen glimmers in myself of the best 5 traits, and that has brought great satisfaction and joy.
I am INTJ typed as 5w4 due to my high fi child , but within me I want to lean towards my 6 wing because that what I need . I believe it is a very useful strategy to face life and gain the power I want .
I’m an ISTP/INTP (50/50 on Sensing and Intuition, although I lean more towards Sensing) 5w6. The enneagram has been mind blowing for my self-discovery journey. So many things started making sense about myself. I’m not an organised/structured person though, so perhaps this is the 7 in me. Still learning but enjoying the insights and understanding I’m gaining.
I'm a 5 with equal scores on both wings 4 and 6 (tested twice with the same result). I'm also an INTJ with a developed Fi. Your analysis makes a lot of sense to me. I'm both artistic/individualistic and systematic - always torn between the two. Imagine having a career in finance at one point and switching to graphic design later on. I've always been drawn to the arts but at the same time, I love working with computers/systems/database/project management tools. I agree with the rest of what you say as it applies to me having both wings. I can't say it's better to be balanced coz then it means I don't get the full benefits of each wing but I'm happy with the explanation and happy with who I am.
This explains why I was never into science and always hated math! I’m a 5w4 and I’ve always been into literature and my career goal is being an author.
5w4 here. I also have a tendency towards 1, as you said about your father, when it comes to dealing with knowledge itself, as an aspect of work (to be more precise, I finished the test with the result as 1w9) My room is a constant mess, but at work, I expect order and clarity. Playing Peak app improved my confidence in my intelligence, this game taught me that there are different types of intelligence like you mentioned. I have a hard time dealing with people, but I accepted it so I can move on. Smoking weed, just once a month, focused my energy that I usually use to analyze the outside world, to analyze my own self, and with more understanding of myself, I feel relieved. Lately, I've said to myself that every attempt is a chance to improve, and with that, I feel more involved in the actual reality.
The mind ( 5 ) has to develop his 4 wing ( to be in touch with his heart ) , and to integrate into eight ( into the instincts,into his body,the gut feeling,and develop some " backbone" so to speak ) . Frederick nietzsche is a great exemple of a 5w4. He talks about hiw he " philosophises with a hammer " smashing norms and traditional thinking,which is basically what 5w4 does. I see that as being the " antichrist " philosopher . The writing of his " Thus Spoke Zarathustra " was his attempt to integrate into his eight. Most of the teachings in his book scream 8 . The idea of the " ubermench" who goes after it.
As an INFJ 5w6 i find that the detachment is automatic. Not that I detach from my emotions all the time, but that I literally can’t reach them. Like they are tucked so deep inside. When they do come up it feels uncomfortable dealing with them and that’s when that detachment comes in. And btw I agree with much of what you said! Love this video.
I'm an Infj 5 with 4 wing (85%) and 6 wing (80%). I liked your video and had a jaw drop when you talked about "house cleaning". During a 2 year periode i had with active healing ppl, i did some of this too, just bc it was a part of helping the family. Anyway: i relate to what you say and you say it in a nice way, so thank you :)
1w9 here. Very good videos so far, I'm finding them very useful. I'm an atheist, I appreciate you keeping religion to a minimum - please keep that up. I can also see 5w4's having an interest in Demonology, but only because it's dark. Can't see many 5's believing in a god of any kind. Thanks 🇬🇧
Christian Type 5-4 here and you are exactly on about the "dark" stuff. I find myself very interested in things like horror, horror literature, ruins, exploring the dark, melancholy, dark weather, dark waters, ghost stories, ghost tours, etc. The odd thing is, there are people that, I don't know it's really hard to explain, but there are people that are also into that stuff that make it their identity and that want to become dark? that allow it to become part of themselves that I very much dislike? I like to stand on the edge and observe and look in, I don't like to celebrate the darkness itself. It's very hard for me to explain, but there is a distinct difference.
INTP Type 5 here, and I TOTALLY understand what you are talking about. There is a whole system to comprehend in the world of darkness that mirrors the heavenly world, and comprehending that system is SUPER helpful in identifying the errors quickly and effectively. I think Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis is an excellent example of the hierarchical structure that I’m talking about. But most people really cannot handle (and should not try to handle) the dark side of the curtain, yet I do think that some were made to do just that.
I am a 5W4 and I love it :) I do agree, I am interested in all things occult and want to learn everything about it. I am an artist but also a book nerd. I would happily say that I am odd and authentic, but also objective and cerebral. Im not into demonology haha, but I love learning about New-Age matter. I love Johny Depp's art, its so dark, detailed and beautiful. I have also always been on Iconoclast! Always attacking or challenging others precious beliefs, with the intension of helping and expansion. Thank you Dr. Tom LaHue! :)
Thank you so much Tom. The last two minutes of this video helped me decipher which wing I am and there’s no doubt I am a 5w6. I kept going back and forth because I am extremely interested in philosophy and writing and ideas such as existentialism, however I have always believed myself to be ambivert because I gain energy through alone time, however I can only be alone for 1.5 days tops or I start to lose it. I also need that human interaction. And even though some of my interests center around introspection, I am a natural networker and I live for connecting people together. I just got into this enneagram stuff, but one suggestion I have for your 5w6 explanation is that we don’t always have to be into hard sciences, but can also be into project management, real estate, or any other career/study that involves collecting data and also connect people and rely on relationships. I love doing business with reliable people and in turn being super reliable. That’s the 6 in me. But I also have deep trust issues like all 5s. I tend to see human connections and relationships more as a tool for usefulness rather than... providing emotional needs. If that makes sense.
I found a lot of truth in this! Parts of both wings resonated with me, but the “original wound” description in the beginning really hit me. We 5’s eventually encounter a situation where being cerebral works against us, whether it be a relationship, a job, our mental health, or some other circumstance.
Most people are dimwits...but lovable...just don't expect too much intelligent ideas from them and you can have an easier life. Nowadays id prefer a nice but dim person over an edgelord know it all
Thank you for this video. I am a Christian and a type 5w4. I feel like I am on the front lines, between the light and the darkness, a vessel that had, before salvation, dwelled in darkness and my head, but after, to be a lighthouse of sorts, for those who are in the dark, desiring the light. When I need to dive in to the dark for a soul in crisis, I dive right in for that precious soul. To love the sinner, sometimes you have to eat with the publicans and sinners in the dark (being the candlelight). Again, thank you for this enlightening video. May God continue to use you to speak and enlighten others.
That statistic matches my expectations. It makes sense for an INTP to be a 5. I am also curious about the small percentage who were not. I fall into that category. I've always been curious about the connections between MBTI and the enneagram. I'm an INTP. At the same time I am a 4w3. These two things seem to be in conflict with each other. I have always wondered if the personality theories are different enough to allow for this contradiction (the contradiction being that 4s are known for being emotional and INTPs are known for their thinking) or if I was wrong in some way.
@@karissahammond4587 Most INTPs tritype 459. Although I tritype 359. So lots of exceptions. The Enneagram is about motivation and why we do what we Do. Not about behavior or cognition.
@@jaredvaughan1665 That makes sense to me, and it does clear up some of my confusion about it. It's useful to go back to what each personality system is really trying to measure, and taking that into account does help me to see how I could be both INTP and a 4 without breaking the laws of either system. Thank you! Tritypes intrigue me. I don't yet have a good understanding of them. It's interesting to me that you don't fit the mold of the statistically typical INTP with your tritype. How do you see tritype playing out in your life?
This is completely true about not needing much and then as a consequence not giving much. Happened to me so many times in relationships. Women of other types tend to give you "love" in various ways and i have a big struggle to give that back to them. That's why my relationships just don't work. I find myself like i can't live alone, but i also can't live with a woman too, so this is so frustrating.
I found this very interesting as I try to sort out which wing is strongest for me. I have tested as both 5w6 and 5w4 at different times in my life. I do think that my 4 wing was primary when I was younger, and my 6 wing has developed over the years
Thanks for this video. To share my perspective, I am INTP (ego + shadow functions) and I identify with both 5w6 and 5w4, but feel more sure-footed with 5w6. I have an internal aspiration to dive deep into unconventional knowledge and somehow find the elusive/impossible “key” that explains everything... (finding connections between disparate things in topics that I find captivating: Jungian archetypes, historical linguistics, urban geography, architectural design, aviation/navigation, horticulture, comparative religion, Buddhism, anthropology, etc). But am more grounded in day-to-day life (at least inside the headspace) by conferring with existing evidence and what other expects have determined, and thoroughly enjoy brainstorming with others and incorporating new data/discoveries. Very challenging identifying with my own emotions. Would I be a “balanced” 5 or a 5w6?
5w4 - I've been deeply studying astrology for awhile now, but I just learned my enneagram type today! I really see the 5w4 in my 2nd house Sag Venus/Saturn conjunction. 2nd House rules nourishment, Sag seeks freedom, Venus represents desire and Saturn restriction. In regards to material things, I like to say "the less you need, the more free you will be," and I think that's generally a good philosophy to live by, but I can also see now how minimizing my needs can be quite limiting too. I'm getting tired of superficial relationships where neither party feels obligated towards the other. It is something I feel I need to work on in this life. Not at all insulted by the suggestion of demonology as an area of expertise though! Clearly, I do have an interest in the occult ( which shows in my natal chart as well! 😂) Thank you for your video!!
A couple 5w4 thoughts: I agree that leaning in a 6erly direction can help 'ground' the Iconoclast in reality and reduce the negative effects of isolation. On the other hand, the valid lesson that the 4-wing has for the 6-wing goes beyond just the admonition to listen to your feelings. It may well be that the very social systems the 6 clings to for safety are in fact the cause of great harm -- harm to others (defined and dismissed by 6-energy as 'outsiders' (Syrophoenician women, and the like)) but also unrecognized harm to the social-clingers themselves who suppress the recognition of even their own needs. The intersection of 5 and 6 is where we find all the argumentation that the status-quo is really just fine as it is, and where we insist that we need things to 'just get back to normal' as quickly as possible, with no recognition that 'normal' can be a living horror for many. It represents the impulse to exonerate 'normality' with a wave of the hand and pathologize those who are different. If 8 is the direction of integration for the 5, then a 5w4 who doesn't shy away from sharing their insights about the deep inconsistencies, contradictions, and injustices of 'the way things are' is bringing their necessary gift to the world. Punching holes in people's belief systems for the thrill of watching others squirm is immature and, frankly, facile enough that a good 5w4 should think it beneath their skill level. On the other hand, there is usually a point to the morbidity or darkness that should never be ignored. If the 5w4 was heeded, we would long ago have addressed structural racism, patriarchy, and human-caused climate change. Pink Floyd's "The Wall" is maybe one of the 20th Century's most pointed artistic expressions of the 5w4 energy. The imagery of school as a mass-production factory, grinding students into meat, the retreat and disconnection from a hostile world behind a wall, and the climactic manifesto of "Another Brick in the Wall Part III" speak to the extreme frustration that many 5w4s probably experience in a world seemingly built to keep them down and out: "I don't need no arms around me. And I don't need no drugs to calm me. I have seen the writing on the wall. Don't think I need anything at all! No. Don't think I need anything at all!"
Thank you for this! I started my self exploration with Meyers Briggs, but feel Enneagrams provide better understanding. 5w4 who married a 5w6 (yeah, it's tricky, but we need each other, because we don't have any friends, LOL). You have great insights. I'm a strategic communications/education consultant in agriculture - I worked for a trade association for many years, but hated that I was told to provide a certain message. I like to challenge those messages and ended up starting my venture so I could focus more on facts-based messaging. I also do all of my own graphic design (creative). My husband is an electrical engineer and problem solver #1. I'd be interested to see how MB types line up with others - I'm a INTP and my husband is INTJ.
This is a really interesting comparison, thanks a lot for making it! I'm more familiar with MBTI, Enneagram being on my "todo list" for a long while. I was pretty sure that I'm a 5, but I wasn't sure about my wing. Now I understand that I'm a 5w4, having an artistic side and also the interest for dark things. Although, I'm working in a technical field, and I can relate to a lot of 5w6 properties. As I look back into my past, I definitely see the slow shift towards 5w6 (I was much more a 5w4 10 years ago). So this probably means that I became more balanced, which makes me pretty happy. As a side note, 5w4 seems to be somewhat congruent with the INTP type, 5w6 being more similar with INTJs. This doesn't means that INTPs can't be 5w6s (or vice versa). Probably a healthier INTP shifts towards 5w6, and an INTJ towards 5w4, like you said.
I don't consider myself emotionless at all. I've spent my life helping and being supportive of others, even if I prefer to keep my worries to myself. I also don't see the usefulness in allowing others to trigger my emotions to control or direct me or my life, as happened when I was a child and young adult. And I'm more beneficial to others when I step back and strengthen my inner resources, and get clear within me, being able to respond from a neutral and understanding place. Honestly, though, I've worked to internalize what I consider one of the greatest truths to live by, "Be in the world but not of it." I've never seen theatrics and drama make any problems better.
Haha yep I’m a 5w6/INTJ and i studied demons/satan/witches/shamanism etc in college for my degree in Anthropology and then i also got a minor in Calculus 😁
Highly accurate description of me as 5w4 - I’ve just realized that my attraction to concept of detachment has been motivated a lot more by fear than I wish it was. Also why I always gravitated to practicing detachment more than compassion, and never understood how to two are supposed to coincide...
5w4, INTJ, schrizotypal. Interest: MBTI, metaphysical (manifestation) or spirituality. Psychology. Chess/RTS. Career: business oriented (marketing analytics) and pursuing a neuroscience BS for fun. Entrepreneurial.
5w4 mortician here. Born again Christian which is what has spiritually balanced my natural personality tendencies to live on the dark side a little. Emotional detachment is huge. Embalming and mortuary work almost requires this and I see I am truly in my calling professionally. This video was right on. Thank you!
I'm supposedly a 5 (5w4 in the last test), and I love philosophy. I love imaging a better world, and trying to find solutions for world peace, inner harmony, farmed animal rights, water scarcity and so on. I'm a cheerful, openly empathetic, compassionate person. I love to help my loved ones. I feel deeply for causes... I'm a caretaker... And I'm very friendly at all social gatherings (with friends and strangers). I feel the room, and know what each person needs to feel comfortable. I want social harmony, and fear emotional/irrational debates, and contentious people. At the same time, I want efficiency, correctness, am very detail oriented, and love to (over)analyse and rationalize everything. I adore research... At work I am much less a people-pleaser and more perfectionist, and don't mind (logical) debates. The goal is great work, good results: not ego stroking. Am I really a 5?
Infj 5w4 here, it may be obvious but if any of you 5w4s are having trouble with expressing emotions then listen to some music that can truly resonate with you!
5w4 here, and a lot of what you are saying is pretty spot on. As far as emotions go, I would bet money that 5s are probably the hardest to really understand out of any type. When kind of looking at myself I know for a fact that I have emotions, and in certain situations I can *certainly* feel them (en example being when I watch good films or read good books, which is why I like them so much), however, most of the time I don't let them influence my decisions *in a sense.* To explain further, emotions can cause an initial reaction that can cause problems, so my brain sees it as problematic when I or people I care about are negatively effected by a reaction based purely on emotion rather than taking in other information and making a logical conclusion, in an attempt to have the best outcome. Notice when I said that; the motivation for this was out of two things, myself an others. Usually others. Like this man said, I don't have a large numbers of friends, but I incredibly loyal to, and care very much for the few who I have decided are trustworthy. My role with friends and family (and I would guess other 5s are like this too) is not so much to cry *with,* but rather to cry *on* as an unmoving pillar. Another interesting interaction I have noticed is that while I struggle to find the motivation to approach someone I don't know for conversation, I have zero issues with others approaching me and starting conversation. I really, really love talking to people, but as someone who appreciates personal boundaries, I don't like butting into someone else's business. That said, for some weird reason if I am in a public space and someone approaches me in order to talk I am all for it. And finally, as a caveat to the last section, f*** small talk. I genuinely despise talking about the weather or other pointless topics. What I view as a "good" conversation is talking about a subject with relative depth, either having intrinsic depth (politics, philosophy, theology, etc), or taking a much smaller topic and going into said topic in excruciating detail. Just a few random thoughts, don't mind me.
Very inspiring. I’ve been praying for a while and writer is something that my heart is going toward. Having the ability to create a symphony with my words makes me quite emotional. -5w4 infj
5w4 = iconoclast, the entire video is worth listening to just for that equation. It explains a lot about my behavior, and gives me clues on how to deal with it. Thank you.
It was so funny when you said the Demonologist thing, because when I was 14 or 15 years old I was very into that kind of stuff, it really was my iconoclast era because I was raised as Catholic but since a very young age I never connected or "believed" in a god I cannot see or feel, so I was in a very agnostic / atheist journey in my teenage years. I'm 27 years old today and INTJ 5w4, everything you explained about Type 5 and wing 4 really resonates with things I've done in the past and present day
My wings are definitely balanced. I’m pursuing a degree that is fairly new in higher education, but lucrative enough that I will find a job, and innovative enough to make me feel individualistic. I love fantasy, mystery; watching media that will touch my emotions in a special, touching, bittersweet way. And I love math; it’s my favorite subject after all and it is pillar for my degree journey. Overall, I’ll always lean towards 5w4 but definitely am almost a 50/50 with having both wings.
This video helps corroborate that I am a 5w4. I'm not into demonology, because I don't think it has a basis in reality, but I did write my Ph.D. dissertation on evil, and back when I was in college, I believe I read everything by H. P. Lovecraft. I'm also a game creator, and I've created Game Courier for playing Chess variants online and a Turing-complete programming language for enabling it to enforce game rules and show legal moves. An example that came to mind for the Iconoclast would be Socrates. He spent much of his time explaining to people how they weren't really as knowledgeable as they thought they were, and this eventually led to him being put to death, but it also served as the foundation of western philosophy. And when I read Plato, Socrates feels like a real person whose personality was similar to my own. I have an interest in science, and I've read lots of popular science books, and perhaps a bit more extensively on evolution, but I never became a scientist.
I think 5w4 is correct for me. I never really vibed with that saying of the type you dislike most or feel most shamed by is yours, no matter how many things I read or watched (and I've been doing that for far too long). But you really put things into perspective because it was worded in a way that it hit a deep part of me - shame. Genuinely felt shame, not discomfort or anger, a real sense of 'crap that sounds really bad bc I DO THAT'. That's not to say that I am offended or anything, I'm actually almost relieved bc this should mean I finally nailed my type. Thank you for all the detail you give, the examples really help too. The cost of isolating myself and how I do this...I hadn't been aware this was how it came across. As a child, I used to have no clue that being annoyed at interruptions to my reading was causing others to leave me alone though thankfully I am a little more aware now. It's still difficult to fully understand that not sharing anything about my personal life can be seen as abrasive as that's never my intent. Or wanting to shake up someone's belief by questioning why they think what they do. I didn't realise this can actually appear like I'm telling someone they don't really know what they're thinking, or rather that they wouldn't appreciate it as widening their perspective, like I would. I will be watching more of your videos on helping each type. As for the demonologist comment, that actually sounds incredibly interesting. I used to think being a cursebreaker or something similar in Harry Potter sounded like the most exciting thing ever.
4 ปีที่แล้ว +1
5 w 4 here. I agree about the interest in darkness. I was way into the darkness until I had children. Then I became curious about spirituality completely unwrapped from religion. Good stuff.
As a 5w4, I’m not into science or math, but I’m into psychology and history and mythology, especially ancient history because there are many mysteries there, and mythology because I like figuring out what certain things in mythology might symbolize in the real world, and connections between different mythological systems, stuff like that. I’m interested in breaking things down and researching mysteries and taking info and making inferences and connecting dots, that’s why I want to go into forensic science. I’m not into hard facts and formulas, I like when there are things to be debated and left to the imagination, things that need to be inferred.
Thanks for the insight. You have provided a helpful perspective.
I can relate. I'm for the most part balanced with both my wings. But I too am interested in the same things mentioned above. Fascinated in paranormal too. Yet I'm also extremely logical and analytical. However was never big on science except for forensic science. I'm a huge mystery lover.. and Stephen king fan...I also love documentaries. Watching video I feel I can relate to both wings regularly in different parts and aspects of my life.
Me too. Not as much into mythology but it does capture my attention. Definitely into psychology, though. I'm actually studying that.
OMG!!!! same as me!!! I'm an INTP but my favourite is history and mythology.
I think Ted /don't know how to spell his last name, but was labelled the "unabomber"/. He certainly seems to be the VERY unhealthy 5/4.
I'm 5w4 and I have seen a lot of videos talking about the 5 being this kind of "emotionless" person. But I would say that 5s are actully scare of feeling because they can feel to much and want to protect themselves, what makes them more private and less expresives, keeping everything to themselves. Because of the Detachment 5s tend to anlyze and think their feelings, trying to understand them more than letting themselves just feel them, making them more self-consious and more "in control" but the side effect is them being seen as this "emotionless" more rational people, that's why is hard to brake the wall to their life, because the 5s themselves don't want to feel "expose" and in risk of their feeligs being invalidated or misstreated. That's also why only some can actully get to know them, the 5s choose to who they trust enough to open the door to the castle (as you put it) and that's why those who are able to get in usually stays.
Keep using your "Castle" reference, maybe that's why 5s tend to be in the search of knowledge (as basic as some information can be), to fullfill that big empty castle and that "lack of emotion" they have and sometimes feel. Conciously or not.
But I can't really know, that's just an interpretation. When we talk about emotions, feelinga and personallity, nothing is 100% certain.
I'm a 5w4 and really identified with this description, enough so to even consider posting a reply which is very unusual for me. This really highlights the journey I've been on for the past 5 years since my Dad unexpectedly committed suicide. That event did so much to highlight the need for healthy expressive emotion. Although hard, it's definitely been the right path to take towards being more open and expressive. It was the push I needed to break through the fear of the unknown world. I've also been fortunate enough to meet an amazing 2 along the way who helps immeasurably.
i find this true to myself your comment is underrated
Ryan Chamberlain
Thank you for sharing! It was helpful for me to read what you wrote, as difficult as that must have been.
This ^......
It’s strange. I’ve taken the Myers Briggs test and I was an INTP and then the enneagram test and I was a 5. Of course, the description fits me to a T but the only thing that I didn’t really identify with was being “emotionless.” I have emotions and strong ones at that. I thought I might have been mistyped, but after a couple attempts of the same test, I was still the same INTP and type 5. Though I am an emotional person, I hate having these feelings. I tend to always analyze why I feel the way I do... and how I can rise above it. I wish I could be stoic but I’m not. Your description of a 5w4 is a perfect description of me. I’m not emotionless. I have emotions and that’s a fact. When I’m angry, I shake in anger and stutter. When I’m sad, I cry. But I will always think about why I feel the way I do and wish I wouldn’t have such extreme feelings.
19:03 "I'm sorry if that's offensive". If any 5s found that offensive, then chances are you aren't a 5. Demonologist sounds epic!
yeah exactly what I thought lol
I’m a 5w4 and I take offense by a lot of things LOL sx subtype tho that makes a big difference
absolutely agree, I found it funny that I was actually just reading a book about demons the other day lol.
Agreed. He could have use another term like - we absorbed in metaphysics, spiritual, mystical otherworldly stuffs.
Right
As a 5w6, the way that I look at social interaction is that it takes a lot of work, I feel like I'm spinning my wheels a lot. So it isn't that I have less energy, it is burned more in large social interactions. When I have connected with someone I can talk for hours. When I struggle to connect and am left to my own devices at a party, I feel like a car with a bad starter/sparkplugs spending way more gas to stay engaged and I quickly wish I was anywhere else. My favorite type of connection is when my presence is appreciated, not demanded. I want to be perceived as competent, I love having the right answer to problems. I hate it when I'm wrong, which makes me more open to correction but less likely to take risks. I'm a pilot, it is a challenging career that is easy to be adequate, easy to mess up, but hard to master. I am part of a small team and it makes my day when my passengers compliment my landings. I also have to study a lot, on the aircraft systems, on crew policies, on emergency procedures, airport procedures, aircraft incidents and accidents, and it's something I enjoy doing. It's a macabre past time of mine to try to find the point where the flight could have been saved. I'm a quintessential problem solver, not that I'm the best at it, I just like solving problems.
For, me as a 5w6, I have discovered that many people are simply too fickle to deal with. One minute they are seeking me for friendship, and the next minute, they either become my enemies, or decide that I have no importance....
It can be tiresome to deal with such inconsistence. Many people seem unstable to me, at times...
For these reasons, it is all too easy to remain introverted, and detached from the world.
Type 5 here:
5w6 (Investigator): practical thinking (what is), objective, more concrete in thinking, and not connected with emotions of self and others. Detail oriented. Connected with reality and can become focused on nihilism due to seeing reality for what it is (harsh and uncaring; what is) rather than for what it can become with work; what if).
5w4 (Philosopher): theoretical thinking (what if), abstract thinking, intuitive, and more connected with emotions and emotions of others. Big picture oriented. Fantasy oriented and disconnected at times from reality. Hence the tendency towards existentialism: reality is what I think.
Now that's the comment I was looking for. Thank you!
5w4 here..! Your description resonates with me. I have a philosophy channel with all kinds of subjects, but I must say that I'm particularly drawn to Carl Jung's stuff about the Shadow and the Anima/Animus which is pretty dark stuff imho. I've been working on a novel (about a monastery) for years now, and boy oh boy.. there's some morbid stuff in there. Being a demonologist sounds pretty interesting :)
Great seeing you here! I love your channel and I particularly loved your recent video on the Enneagram! :)
Your chosen name, Einzelgänger, describes the 5 perfectly. (; I’ve also seen a few of your videos and really appreciate them.
Have you ever wondered if there was a user's manual to life, how would it look like ?
I knew there was something that I relate to in your vids :)
@Vincent Vihaan why not just break up with her if you are that sketchy of a boyfriend? 🤨 save both of your time and future disappointment.
I think 5w4s would be more drawn towards philosophy, psychology and the arts, while 5w6s would be more drawn towards math, physics and other hard sciences.
I’m just starting on the enneagram approach, by this I’d be a 5w4, *and* 5w6.
4w5w6? 🤔
@@Audio-apps You can have balanced wings, which means you can use both of them equally or fluctuate between them. You can be a 5 with balanced 4 and 6 wings, meaning you use both. You most likely still use one more than the other; it's pretty rare for someone to have perfectly balanced wings.
THIS!
@@Audio-apps i am mainly a type 1, with 4, 5, and 6 as my wings. I know every blind believer in enneagram THEORY will say thats wrong or impossible, but not everyone fits into nice neat boxes. Having a wing that is only the number next to yours is an illogical system.
As a 5w4 I feel that my approach is more speculative and imaginative, yet guided by a strong intuitive knowing, connecting all the dots to create a coherent and meaningful larger picture, less focussed on fact checking the details or achieving an expertise in a certain field of study
I’m a 5w6-no doubt. You described me very well. We isolate to recharge to reengage with people/community for very brief periods of time, and then recharge again. We are just born with limited energy. Plus, we are digesting very complex and new ideas constantly, which takes energy to assimilate in our minds. We want to know all of the things!!! We have had failed relationships, so we feel data is more secure.
Fives are the worst people in the world - they can watch someone drown - not help - and get back to their book
if you are a 5 - you suck
Glad I'm not alone on this 😎
I'm 5 w 6 too.
I think part of being a 5 is realizing that when you need something from people, they can give you what fulfills you but then take it away if you don't follow their expectation. If you don't need that thing from them, they will have a harder time threatening you with removing that thing. It's about trust.
Yep that's it, it always harder to trust people
I disagree 5w4s are extremely drawn towards philosophy. Particularly existentialism and nihilism.
Partially agree. I'm a 5w4 with passion for existentialism and nihilism. However, these two branches (expecally existentialism) could be considered as less "hard science" compare to epistemology/logic/metaphysics. Also, rather than being attracted by rigorous reasoning, 5w4 may love these branches beacuse of the deconstructions towards norms.
I'm a 5-4-8 and I'm a sworn enemy of nihilism and anything that holds a flag with a zero on it.
I believe that the ultimate goal of humanity is to beat the shit out of that zero.
Well that explains a lot
I agree. Philosophy is a soft science not a hard one.
I agree with you but I also agree with him that we're less focused on the hard science. philosophy is all about the constructs of ideas rather than data
This was soooo excellent. I recently just discovered after 7 years, that I'm actually a 5 w 4 wing, not a 4. Something often absent from descriptions of 5s how they can be feeling / emotional. Female 5s have huge risk of mistyping as 4s (see misidentifications), because they sense they have strong emotions, yet read all these simple type descriptions which give the impression that fives aren't emotional. Learning about the Iconoclast, I have discovered I can keep what 4 traits most related to, but now properly understand myself in a more accurate way. I am deeply creative, feeling, intuitive, and drawn to authenticity, but am also extremely cerebral and investigative and withdrawn. I am always trying to understand peoples behaviors, motivations, feelings, expressions by studying psychological topics intensively and observing people. I don't fully get how to be social and interact with people, and believe that if I just keep studying more, I'll figure out how to fit in better and behave in a more socially correct way. But then I'm up in my head doing all of this, and meanwhile totally avoiding interacting with people.
Jesus christ it's like looking in a mirror. Spend all your time observing yet totally useless in social situations in practice. I'm currently trialling a mixture of CBT and throwing myself in the deep end socially, trusting that practice makes perfect
@@ryanchamberlain9039 Right on! Yeah, I find as a 5, that is the way to go. Put yourself out there, do your best even if you feel awkward or uncomfortable. Showing up counts! I tend to like being around 2s, 7s and 6s, I find many of them don't even notice the awkwardness cuz they are so chatty anyway, and will make up for what I lack. I find being around other 5s (if introverted or in withdrawal mode) or 3s (judgy, superficial) are the hardest to connect with. Sometimes 8s too, they are also quick to judge and zone in on or point out others weaknesses. Finding people you feel safe and accepted around is everything. Also being mindful and self-accepting, not everyone is easy to connect with and some people may not be worth your time/energy for various reasons.
If you don't mind me asking, what's your mbti type?
I feel seen.. I’m still not sure if I’m a 5 or a 4 exactly, but the fact that I won’t stop researching until I figure it out is making me lean more towards a 5 now
Man i swear. Described me quite accurately.
I am a 5w4 and you nailed me. The Iconoclasts. Yeah.
I really enjoyed this. Thank you.
Stephen King is my favorite author. Makes sense he is a 5w4.
And I doubt many if any 5w4 would be offended by statements that we are intrigued by the dark. It's true. And, like you said, not for the wrong reasons, but for the reason of wanting to understand, to figure it out, to utilize or thwart. This was delightful. I am an INTJ as well. And I love researching. It is what I do for fun. I research everything before I endeavour it. Thank you for this. It delighted me.
Glad you enjoyed it! Keep up the good investigative work.
@desertrosereads Stephen King is my favorite author. He says horrible things so beautifully.
INTP here and I second this
INFP 5w4 and I also love Stephen king and darker subjects. I used to think it was a Scorpio thing but now I’m starting to wonder
I'm a 5w4 and I feel like there's a misconception around 5s and emotions. Perhaps in childhood, there is a somewhat conscious decision to detach from emotions, possibly because those emotions were not safe around our parents. In my case, my mother was always the emotional one, so I felt like I wasn't allowed to cry because she was already doing it for the both of us, and SOMEBODY had to be the adult. But now as an adult, I don't deliberately detach from my feelings. They are simply NO LONGER ACCESSIBLE to me. I can tell there's a huge amount of emotion below the surface, and I can do guided meditations and work with therapists and do all sorts of things to try and access it, but it's usually extremely difficult. I would love to be able to feel my feelings! I would love to be able to share in that with other people! Just because I'm not readily able to access emotions does not mean they're not there. It is often a source of frustration and disappointment, in fact, to not be able to cry when it would be appropriate - and often when I do (finally) start crying, I can't stop, probably because there are many layers of grief there that haven't been expressed. That said, it IS a handy tool to be able to be rather emotionless when you have certain careers - I work with grievers and I consider it a gift to be able to sit with grieving people without being consumed by their grief.
The other thing I feel that is slightly misinterpreted is this pulling back from relationships/people who require too much energy. I feel like this is necessary in order for me to survive. I feel like as a 5, we've been given an incredibly powerful mind - like a mobile phone with the latest and most intelligent apps - but with an inadequate battery. We have so many background apps running at once - in my case the Mom App, which has 25 reminders and to-dos at any given time, but also the Research App, the Interesting Topics app, etc. etc. which all use an incredible amount of power in the background. Phone suddenly rings? BAM! 25% less battery just by being startled by the phone and then having to talk to someone you weren't expecting. Doorbell rings? BAM! 25% less battery for having an unexpected interaction. So it's 3pm, my kids and husband aren't even back from school or work yet, and I'm already down to about 30% of my battery. How will it last until bedtime if I don't conserve my energy? So yes, we avoid people who are too needy, dramatic, loud, etc. so that we have enough battery JUST TO MAKE IT THROUGH THE DAY. It's seriously a survival mechanism for me, not a choice.
I wonder if that rings true for any other 5s here?
Libby hey , just recently (like 5 minutes ago) discovered that i am also a 5w4. I truly relate to what you have described. Suddenly, i think that i understand myself better. I lost my mother when i was 5 years old and i guess it played a huge role into my decision to detach from emotions. I can honestly not remember a time where i was an emotional type of person. But i know that the emotions are there, but like you said, having access to them is difficult. When i am crying it feels that i am letting EVERYTHING out, i cry for all the things at the same time
Wow, your childhood is just exactly how you described mines! Also I can agree with the crying part but there is nothing besides music that can resonate with me. I tried therapy and all but thats just the only way for me to express my feelings. I think this makes since we are also very creative (It might be different since im an Infj 5w4 though)
@@aizawa6562 INFJ 5w4 sx here too, I relate to everything you said ;-)
I can completely relate about the feelings or rather lack there off, and being drained by people in general.
The resulting boredom and empthyness for not having proper acces to ones feelings have had my try just about everything to establish at least some kind of contact to my feelings, but its very hard, since feelings can be a lot draning to.
ISTP 5w6
have you seen the research in psilocybin mushrooms for therapy? John Hopkins?
5w4 here and I resonate with researching/understanding the demonologist/dark/taboo subjects- such as mental illness, suicide, trauma, but also tantric sex, energy healing and hypnotherapy. Also resonate with the 5w6 aspects as well.
Thanks for sharing.
5's don't say "5 here", you sound like a conformist.
@@muffintop420 I guess some 5's do say that because this 5 did. Thank you for playing!
Same, I've researched a lot of similar subjects as well and I often get weird looks when I talk about it LOL.
Thinking about career options, I'd be an excellent Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher.... 😝🤣
@@EveInTheMachine Yeah. Don't even look at my search history. Already banned from Twitter...
Hello, 5w4 (INTJ) lady here. I was 35 yo before I found out I was a 5. Before that I thought something was wrong with me because I was more like a man, personality wise, than a woman. I thought that feelers were weak and had no respect for them. When I found out that I was a rare personality type, I was reborn! I wasn't defective, I was just rare. The enneagram type fit we very well but not perfectly. Enter the enneagram into my mind. The combination of 5 with some 4 was perfect. Very glad I discovered this information.
5w4 here. Rebirth and innovation often comes after destruction, darkness and chaos. I'm equally drawn to the artistic and hard science. Think about astrophysics.. a perfect connection between science and pushing beyond the boundaries of the unknown.
“If I don’t need a lot or require a lot, then I’m not going to have to be afraid about having things given to me.”
Me, right on the nail.
My bf is like this and I have yet figured out how to really breakthrough the walls that have built up 😔
Just a curious observation:
5w6s:
I am a 5w6 and you are spot on.
5w4s:
W O T
A F E
L X
L T
5w6 btw ^^
yea!!
@20:00 5w6
As a 5w6, I don't think you could have explained my personal experience better. I sincerely appreciate you.
I hate being a 5w4. I hate how I am. When I was in highschool I always saw my life differently. More than 10 years later, it's worse than I thought. These descriptions are very much me. Some even felt like personal attacks at how specific they were. I hate that I'm such a deep introvert. I never used to. I've pushed people away by accident, some for good just because it's how my default program is. I hate the lense over my eyes with how I naturally see and interact in the world. I hate it all. I hate myself. I'm not suicidal, but I fear that I will take myself to a point of accidentally pushing everything away, sacrificing everything until I have nothing left and I wake up realising what I've done, in my 30s or 40s with nothing to live for. I don't want to be around anymore.
Hi. I understand that I am 2 years late to the comment but I can relate to you very deeply. Most of these things that shape us are out of our control. Often as Type 5s, we feel as if we are in completely different planets despite existing in the same place as others. You have definitely felt misunderstood. The people that you pushed away often do not seem to be on the same wavelength as you. You do not want to bother explaining the things that happen internally as you would be misjudged or perceived in a way that is negative. Here, you have stumbled on this video seeking for answers as to why you function the way you are. One thing I can say for certain is that you have found people you can relate to. Do not lose your spark yet. Your high-school da may have been long gone and, even if we can get melancholic of the past it’s important to know that it doesn’t define who you are right now. Yes, I’m aware this comment is around 2 years old but, I’m sure you’ve found your people who you can atleast count on. I don’t know who quoted this but “During the dark storms - bright sunny days follow”. Keep moving forward and try not to get too caught up in the future and past. Remember your uniqueness is a gift. Embrace it and keep your head up high.
I'm a 5w4. I can definitely confirm what you said about our value of information and knowledge in combination with a desire for novelty and uniqueness. I can also confirm the part about 5w4 being disruptive, but at least for me personally, it's not so much for the sake of pure innovation or finding better ways of doing things. For me, the underlying motivation is the discovery of ultimate truth, and I am constantly trying to get the mass amounts of information I absorb and collect to converge at some point that would indicate I am getting closer to that truth. If I find some error in common beliefs or systems, or stumble upon a novel idea along the way, it is what it is. In fact, I'd expect as much.
I think that could also be related to the steering away from hard sciences. I majored in biomedical physics in college and worked for a short time in biomedical engineering, but I quickly turned away from that as well as other studies and pursuits in the hard sciences because it wasn't getting me closer to the truth I was looking for which is more of an existential truth. And I think that points to the reason for our interest in dark or taboo things.
It takes only a brief glance at human history or human psychology to see that human beings have a dark side that we must all acknowledge is present within each of us if we ever want to have a chance to fully understand ourselves and what we're capable of. So for me, it's by no means just some morbid curiosity. ANYWAY. I also relate to the other stuff. One time, I pulled an all-nighter learning about car engines because my check engine light went on, and I didn't want to be perceived as incompetent when I took it to get fixed the next day. I couldn't stand the thought of getting ripped off because I lacked knowledge on how an engine works. Great video! Thanks for sharing :)
Alyssa Mesner - INFJ by any chance?
@@macoeur1122 I think so!! :D
Love this comment Alyssa! 5w4/4w5 here. Existential truth, yes! Non-duality might 'bring/show' you that if you 'look into it'! :)
@@macoeur1122 Yes, I am an INFJ :)
@@JonasAnandaKristiansson I am happy you read it! I almost never write comments because I feel like no one will care haha so thanks for your reply!
Thank You! INTJ 5w6 Female - Life is an Adventure, Adventure on!
5w4 here. Very on point analysis. I've spent a lot of my life not to fitting in with people socially. And also not trying to fit in anywhere. Few very close friends. I've tried several career options, always creativity based, and never quite fulfilling enough. 'On to the next one' sounds like a good motto for 5w4. I am nearing 30 and leaning into the 6 wing is definitely helping me personally. The world around 5's can seems like an infinitely sized chess game where people are pieces with certain rules guiding them. This can feel like we have the upper hand or have this jaded sense of knowing. However, reading these guiding movements people take (i.e. fears, anxieties, loves, humor, etc) can be very beneficial for 5's in gaining a strong 6 wing, thereby having stronger relationships, more relationships, and connections. After all, that's what you get in this life!
Same
As a 5w4, and a medical professional, I can speak to the “hard science” point. I think that was an excellent point, and as someone who had made a career out of science, the “hard sciences” would be chemistry, physics, microbio, etc whereas I have a passion and a talent for philosophy, sociology, and psychology (softer sciences). I would’ve went I to those fields but the money is just not worth the time invested, and I want that safety and comfortability that comes from knowing money will never be an issue for me with my career path.
5’s don’t want to be “needy” - I lol’d, soooo true!
"The 5w4 can get lost in dungeons and dragons" I FEEL CALLED OUT
Ive always confused myself with 4s but i feel so understood right now as a 5w4
"We dont need anything from you and we also dont want you to need anything from us"
If i could describe myself in a line this would be it
"they're prickly"
i mean, I haven't shaved...
that's a consistent statement in his videos about 5s, that we tend to accidentally offend people because we're factual to a fault
I stopped shaving entirely. It's neither comfortable nor safe.
@@aaron.shafer Then whats actually safe to you then? Cant help being curious.
@@kaspervendler1726 swordplay
Great video, I loved it. INFJ 5w4 here. That fear you talked about 5's having growing up is what i had which led me to read people and situations now without trying. I'm new to the whole Enneagram world and scored a 5w4 which answers some questions about me being an INFJ(Many many years and sometimes turn to a INFP). I have empathy for many people but you're right about detaching from people which sometimes make me question the INFJ in me. I love going out to be social and talking to one or two people at a time but not anymore then that. I can fit into any crowd or situation because i can read it and not out of place. I wanted to go along with the video and write how i felt during each explanation but it was just go on and on and I've already written enough. lol Great video again :) thanks
Yes!
@@JonasAnandaKristiansson everything happens for a reason. I enjoy your channel.
@@facethanatos Really appreciate this, Face! :)
Regarding your comment from some months ago, are you "solidified" in your perception of what your MBTI and Enneagram type is?
Is it INFJ 5w4 "still"? :D
I've been.. somewhere in between and have somehow left the 5w4 vs 4w5 "open" for 3,5 years, but those are truly what I resonate with. I do somehow resonate with the 9 in many ways too so it is.. hmm!
Been into Enneagram hardcore again for the first time in a long time and trying to well.. solidify my main type, and the other day I was almost convinced that 4 is the dominant, but then I had a real "5-day" and went into searching more about the 5 again from various perspectives and sensory/informational input, and my God, the 5w4 is just as likely, both in expression and "cause".
Hope you are doing well
That 'minimizing of our needs' that you described is what helped me survive in my abusive household.
Maybe all 5's and 1's can relate!
Thank you for this video. I’m a 5w4 and I feel like a lot of information about enneagram and especially type 5 is kind of shallow... I want the most in-depth info I can get! I feel like type 5 often gets kind of passed over like “Type 5, y’all are good at knowing stuff, good on ya!” This was one of the most helpful and accurate things I’ve seen to date. I feel seen and understood and validated. Thank you!
A 5w4 infj here! I must say for 35 years I thought I didnt have emotions, I couldn’t express anything myself but i was always feeling for other people. The reality is that I feel so deeply that I guess i blocked myself in mode of protection. I’m híper sensitive person, after my spiritual awakening and shadow work I freed myself of that shell and I’m not afraid anymore to be who i am in total essence. My addiction is listen to videos and getting information all day long. I live with my headphones on! People says to me: Danna, if you are wearing headphones all day we can not talk to you and I answer: that the idea!!! Lol.. I love everything that is in the occult but I don’t like to go so deep in the dark dark things, I know that exist but I rather don’t get involved in that low frequency. What I love is to know peoples minds, personality disorders, childhood traumas, hypnosis, psychology, the power of the subconscious mind, universal laws, astrology, the astral world, spirits, entities, the beings of other dimentions and of course, quantum physics! My life literally change when I learnt how energy works! My soul purpose is to guide people during the spiritual awakening. Great video. Thank you.
This video was awesome. I'm couldn't decide between 5w4 and 5w6, but your description of a 5w4 was spot on. I grew up in a Christian home with strict parents, so I couldn't do all of the research I really wanted to into the Occult, but my friend in school told me about the code in the Bible that told the future and really blew my mind (I don't really believe it anymore, but it was cool at the time lol). Since moving out, I've done a ton of research and discovered more about the Occult, but still being a Christian I kind of want to find out about this dark stuff (human trafficking, all the evil in politics and elite) in order to expose it. It tickles me that people are slowly waking up to the evil in the world and I'm helping in my small way. Also, my fiance is a 6w5, so he's been really good about balancing me out and helping me be more of a prepper lol.
You and I are extremely similar and I am a 5w4 as well. I can’t believe it.
As I'm listening to this (5w4) I was re reading some of my occult books (golden dawn)you nailed it
Awesome video! What really resonated with me is how you described the process of tapping into the opposite wing to create some balance!
Glad it was helpful!
I think I created a fortress because I had a controlling + hostile mother. Then, shutting myself and minimizing my needs was a natural response to avoid these feelings of being confronted and invaded.
5w4 and test out INTP. I'm not at all offended by the demonologist comment. Would that happen to be a job offer? 😉
Believe me, I have been in ministry for about 30 years now and have seen some stuff...There have been a few times when I wish I had a demonologist by my side...🙈🙈🙈
I identify with that darker side comment, lol. I’m a 5w4, ENTP, who loves Psychology & History, and seeks to understand the darker shadow side of things in order to bring them to the light and heal the wounds of the past. I’m tracking for clinical psychology, although I might now consider demonology as a career path... j/k 🤣
I’m a 5w4. I always say I prefer to observe my emotions from a safe distance. Occasionally when I’m alone at night, I’ll take the emotions out of their box and feel them, and then put them safely back. ...I’m commenting as I’m listening and I just heard the prickly comment and it made me chuckle because as a kid I decided the flower that most described me was the thistle. Prickly.
You do that too? It feels good knowing I'm not the only one.
@@lowkeyotaku2373 I do that too, i thought no one else would do that bc I think it's kinda “weird” for me to actually do that lol
In a society that really builds upon you the idea of connections, especially in kid's TV shows, I've never really felt quite understood when it comes to my relationships with people. There has been a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to putting in "effort" or "actually" caring about someone. It's hard to find people who understand that you do care about people without needing a lot of emotional connection. Since I've discovered enneagrams and mbti types, it has given me some comfort with the person I am.
INTJ 5w4 and I totally agree that I am drawn more towards “dark” subjects. I am also drawn towards philosophy.
I 🤬 love philosophy
Yup 'cept I'm an intp 5w4.
INTJ 5w4 - love metaphysics and philosophy
I'm a 2w3
But I'm a healthy, so I live a lot of my life as a 4
Yep… I'm definitely a 5w6. Pretty interesting point of view, thanks again for sharing it!
Thanks
As a 5w4 I'm an overactive thinker, which takes me away from the moment and I can stay there for a long time. I even zone out when I'm with others when the conversations are not intellectually stimulating. I once said to some friends that I often seek to use a mental framework to understand reality, but that's a coping mechanism I think. I believe that emotional awareness and intuition can be a superpower for 5w4s. When we turn our hearts and heads on simultaneously, we find meaning in mundane things.
5w4 here and I agree with you so much. I've always been drawn to mythology and different religions, true crime, etc. Nice to know that Stephen King is on my team, one of my favorite authors.
Conformist
Spot on. I’m a 5w4, married to a 6w5, who has taught me to express both sides of my five-ness. I definitely have the worst 5 traits, but have seen glimmers in myself of the best 5 traits, and that has brought great satisfaction and joy.
I am INTJ typed as 5w4 due to my high fi child , but within me I want to lean towards my 6 wing because that what I need . I believe it is a very useful strategy to face life and gain the power I want .
I’m an ISTP/INTP (50/50 on Sensing and Intuition, although I lean more towards Sensing) 5w6. The enneagram has been mind blowing for my self-discovery journey. So many things started making sense about myself. I’m not an organised/structured person though, so perhaps this is the 7 in me. Still learning but enjoying the insights and understanding I’m gaining.
I'm a 5 with equal scores on both wings 4 and 6 (tested twice with the same result). I'm also an INTJ with a developed Fi. Your analysis makes a lot of sense to me. I'm both artistic/individualistic and systematic - always torn between the two. Imagine having a career in finance at one point and switching to graphic design later on. I've always been drawn to the arts but at the same time, I love working with computers/systems/database/project management tools. I agree with the rest of what you say as it applies to me having both wings. I can't say it's better to be balanced coz then it means I don't get the full benefits of each wing but I'm happy with the explanation and happy with who I am.
Great, thanks for the comment.
Like you describ my everyday work and goal.
Did you just speak my mind! I'm glad I'm not the only one.
The first 25 minutes are really informative. The remaining 9 minutes are spiritually deep. I really enjoyed this video.
This explains why I was never into science and always hated math! I’m a 5w4 and I’ve always been into literature and my career goal is being an author.
5w4 here. I also have a tendency towards 1, as you said about your father, when it comes to dealing with knowledge itself, as an aspect of work (to be more precise, I finished the test with the result as 1w9) My room is a constant mess, but at work, I expect order and clarity. Playing Peak app improved my confidence in my intelligence, this game taught me that there are different types of intelligence like you mentioned. I have a hard time dealing with people, but I accepted it so I can move on. Smoking weed, just once a month, focused my energy that I usually use to analyze the outside world, to analyze my own self, and with more understanding of myself, I feel relieved. Lately, I've said to myself that every attempt is a chance to improve, and with that, I feel more involved in the actual reality.
The mind ( 5 ) has to develop his 4 wing ( to be in touch with his heart ) , and to integrate into eight ( into the instincts,into his body,the gut feeling,and develop some " backbone" so to speak ) .
Frederick nietzsche is a great exemple of a 5w4. He talks about hiw he " philosophises with a hammer " smashing norms and traditional thinking,which is basically what 5w4 does. I see that as being the " antichrist " philosopher .
The writing of his " Thus Spoke Zarathustra " was his attempt to integrate into his eight. Most of the teachings in his book scream 8 . The idea of the " ubermench" who goes after it.
5w4 - 12:30
5w5 - 20:15
One of my sons is a 5 w 6. Even in elementary school, they started telling me that he was coming up with new and different ways to do math problems.
your son will turn out to be a selfish prick as a 5
@@snoopyontheground3481 everyone is selfish. Some are just more honest about their selfishness than others.
@@crazeekids9744 --- ya, and 5's make selfishness an ugly art form
As an INFJ 5w6 i find that the detachment is automatic. Not that I detach from my emotions all the time, but that I literally can’t reach them. Like they are tucked so deep inside. When they do come up it feels uncomfortable dealing with them and that’s when that detachment comes in.
And btw I agree with much of what you said! Love this video.
I'm an Infj 5 with 4 wing (85%) and 6 wing (80%). I liked your video and had a jaw drop when you talked about "house cleaning". During a 2 year periode i had with active healing ppl, i did some of this too, just bc it was a part of helping the family. Anyway: i relate to what you say and you say it in a nice way, so thank you :)
7:13-8:30 is spot on! I'm a five and I never could have explained that so well.
Definitely part of my tritype for sure! Relate so much to “keeping out” the emotions + needs I don’t need and trying to minimise my needs.
1w9 here. Very good videos so far, I'm finding them very useful. I'm an atheist, I appreciate you keeping religion to a minimum - please keep that up. I can also see 5w4's having an interest in Demonology, but only because it's dark. Can't see many 5's believing in a god of any kind.
Thanks 🇬🇧
Thank you so much for this video. I want to share that although I am 5w6 in the hardest and toughest times shifting towards w4 was life saving for me
Christian Type 5-4 here and you are exactly on about the "dark" stuff. I find myself very interested in things like horror, horror literature, ruins, exploring the dark, melancholy, dark weather, dark waters, ghost stories, ghost tours, etc. The odd thing is, there are people that, I don't know it's really hard to explain, but there are people that are also into that stuff that make it their identity and that want to become dark? that allow it to become part of themselves that I very much dislike? I like to stand on the edge and observe and look in, I don't like to celebrate the darkness itself.
It's very hard for me to explain, but there is a distinct difference.
Interesting...I would call that the 5's "detachment." Thanks for the comment.
INTP Type 5 here, and I TOTALLY understand what you are talking about. There is a whole system to comprehend in the world of darkness that mirrors the heavenly world, and comprehending that system is SUPER helpful in identifying the errors quickly and effectively. I think Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis is an excellent example of the hierarchical structure that I’m talking about. But most people really cannot handle (and should not try to handle) the dark side of the curtain, yet I do think that some were made to do just that.
@@This_Holy_Chaos Buffy the vampire slayer?
I am the same, I just want to understand what dark stuff exists objectively but take no part in it. As a Christian INTJ 5w4
Even if enneagrams are like astrology, analyzing them as Dr. LaHue does here is VERY USEFUL for writing great characters. Thank you!
Thanks for sharing!
5w4: Peter Parker (Spiderman), Raven (Teen Titans)
5w6: Bruce Wayne (Batman), Stephen Strange (Dr Strange)
I am a 5W4 and I love it :) I do agree, I am interested in all things occult and want to learn everything about it. I am an artist but also a book nerd. I would happily say that I am odd and authentic, but also objective and cerebral. Im not into demonology haha, but I love learning about New-Age matter. I love Johny Depp's art, its so dark, detailed and beautiful. I have also always been on Iconoclast! Always attacking or challenging others precious beliefs, with the intension of helping and expansion. Thank you Dr. Tom LaHue! :)
Awesome. We need people "out there" who will challenge what we believe and what we hold dear. Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much Tom. The last two minutes of this video helped me decipher which wing I am and there’s no doubt I am a 5w6. I kept going back and forth because I am extremely interested in philosophy and writing and ideas such as existentialism, however I have always believed myself to be ambivert because I gain energy through alone time, however I can only be alone for 1.5 days tops or I start to lose it. I also need that human interaction. And even though some of my interests center around introspection, I am a natural networker and I live for connecting people together. I just got into this enneagram stuff, but one suggestion I have for your 5w6 explanation is that we don’t always have to be into hard sciences, but can also be into project management, real estate, or any other career/study that involves collecting data and also connect people and rely on relationships. I love doing business with reliable people and in turn being super reliable. That’s the 6 in me. But I also have deep trust issues like all 5s. I tend to see human connections and relationships more as a tool for usefulness rather than... providing emotional needs. If that makes sense.
I found a lot of truth in this! Parts of both wings resonated with me, but the “original wound” description in the beginning really hit me. We 5’s eventually encounter a situation where being cerebral works against us, whether it be a relationship, a job, our mental health, or some other circumstance.
Thanks for sharing this.
Most people are dimwits...but lovable...just don't expect too much intelligent ideas from them and you can have an easier life. Nowadays id prefer a nice but dim person over an edgelord know it all
Man, I often can’t figure out these types no matter how much I read, but your videos frequently clear it up for me. You’re great! Thanks!
Awesome, thank you!
Thank you for this video. I am a Christian and a type 5w4.
I feel like I am on the front lines, between the light and the darkness, a vessel that had, before salvation, dwelled in darkness and my head, but after, to be a lighthouse of sorts, for those who are in the dark, desiring the light. When I need to dive in to the dark for a soul in crisis, I dive right in for that precious soul.
To love the sinner, sometimes you have to eat with the publicans and sinners in the dark (being the candlelight).
Again, thank you for this enlightening video. May God continue to use you to speak and enlighten others.
Epicurus said it well: "If thou wilt make a man happy, add not unto his riches but take away from his desires."
74% of INTPs self identify as Enneagram 5 on personality café.
That statistic matches my expectations. It makes sense for an INTP to be a 5. I am also curious about the small percentage who were not. I fall into that category.
I've always been curious about the connections between MBTI and the enneagram. I'm an INTP. At the same time I am a 4w3. These two things seem to be in conflict with each other. I have always wondered if the personality theories are different enough to allow for this contradiction (the contradiction being that 4s are known for being emotional and INTPs are known for their thinking) or if I was wrong in some way.
@@karissahammond4587 Most INTPs tritype 459. Although I tritype 359. So lots of exceptions. The Enneagram is about motivation and why we do what we Do. Not about behavior or cognition.
@@jaredvaughan1665 That makes sense to me, and it does clear up some of my confusion about it. It's useful to go back to what each personality system is really trying to measure, and taking that into account does help me to see how I could be both INTP and a 4 without breaking the laws of either system. Thank you!
Tritypes intrigue me. I don't yet have a good understanding of them. It's interesting to me that you don't fit the mold of the statistically typical INTP with your tritype. How do you see tritype playing out in your life?
So, are 100% of INTJ's a 5w6? Just saying it would seem.
I'm a rare INFP 5 w 4 but have felt very INTP a lot of the time
This is completely true about not needing much and then as a consequence not giving much. Happened to me so many times in relationships. Women of other types tend to give you "love" in various ways and i have a big struggle to give that back to them. That's why my relationships just don't work. I find myself like i can't live alone, but i also can't live with a woman too, so this is so frustrating.
The struggle is real.
I found this very interesting as I try to sort out which wing is strongest for me. I have tested as both 5w6 and 5w4 at different times in my life. I do think that my 4 wing was primary when I was younger, and my 6 wing has developed over the years
Thanks for this video. To share my perspective, I am INTP (ego + shadow functions) and I identify with both 5w6 and 5w4, but feel more sure-footed with 5w6. I have an internal aspiration to dive deep into unconventional knowledge and somehow find the elusive/impossible “key” that explains everything... (finding connections between disparate things in topics that I find captivating: Jungian archetypes, historical linguistics, urban geography, architectural design, aviation/navigation, horticulture, comparative religion, Buddhism, anthropology, etc). But am more grounded in day-to-day life (at least inside the headspace) by conferring with existing evidence and what other expects have determined, and thoroughly enjoy brainstorming with others and incorporating new data/discoveries. Very challenging identifying with my own emotions. Would I be a “balanced” 5 or a 5w6?
Same here as an INTP
5w4 - I've been deeply studying astrology for awhile now, but I just learned my enneagram type today! I really see the 5w4 in my 2nd house Sag Venus/Saturn conjunction. 2nd House rules nourishment, Sag seeks freedom, Venus represents desire and Saturn restriction. In regards to material things, I like to say "the less you need, the more free you will be," and I think that's generally a good philosophy to live by, but I can also see now how minimizing my needs can be quite limiting too. I'm getting tired of superficial relationships where neither party feels obligated towards the other. It is something I feel I need to work on in this life.
Not at all insulted by the suggestion of demonology as an area of expertise though! Clearly, I do have an interest in the occult ( which shows in my natal chart as well! 😂)
Thank you for your video!!
A couple 5w4 thoughts: I agree that leaning in a 6erly direction can help 'ground' the Iconoclast in reality and reduce the negative effects of isolation. On the other hand, the valid lesson that the 4-wing has for the 6-wing goes beyond just the admonition to listen to your feelings. It may well be that the very social systems the 6 clings to for safety are in fact the cause of great harm -- harm to others (defined and dismissed by 6-energy as 'outsiders' (Syrophoenician women, and the like)) but also unrecognized harm to the social-clingers themselves who suppress the recognition of even their own needs. The intersection of 5 and 6 is where we find all the argumentation that the status-quo is really just fine as it is, and where we insist that we need things to 'just get back to normal' as quickly as possible, with no recognition that 'normal' can be a living horror for many. It represents the impulse to exonerate 'normality' with a wave of the hand and pathologize those who are different.
If 8 is the direction of integration for the 5, then a 5w4 who doesn't shy away from sharing their insights about the deep inconsistencies, contradictions, and injustices of 'the way things are' is bringing their necessary gift to the world. Punching holes in people's belief systems for the thrill of watching others squirm is immature and, frankly, facile enough that a good 5w4 should think it beneath their skill level. On the other hand, there is usually a point to the morbidity or darkness that should never be ignored. If the 5w4 was heeded, we would long ago have addressed structural racism, patriarchy, and human-caused climate change.
Pink Floyd's "The Wall" is maybe one of the 20th Century's most pointed artistic expressions of the 5w4 energy. The imagery of school as a mass-production factory, grinding students into meat, the retreat and disconnection from a hostile world behind a wall, and the climactic manifesto of "Another Brick in the Wall Part III" speak to the extreme frustration that many 5w4s probably experience in a world seemingly built to keep them down and out: "I don't need no arms around me. And I don't need no drugs to calm me. I have seen the writing on the wall. Don't think I need anything at all! No. Don't think I need anything at all!"
This is an excellent breakdown of the five type (specifically, its wings). Enjoyed nearly every second of it. 10/10
Thank you for this! I started my self exploration with Meyers Briggs, but feel Enneagrams provide better understanding. 5w4 who married a 5w6 (yeah, it's tricky, but we need each other, because we don't have any friends, LOL). You have great insights. I'm a strategic communications/education consultant in agriculture - I worked for a trade association for many years, but hated that I was told to provide a certain message. I like to challenge those messages and ended up starting my venture so I could focus more on facts-based messaging. I also do all of my own graphic design (creative). My husband is an electrical engineer and problem solver #1. I'd be interested to see how MB types line up with others - I'm a INTP and my husband is INTJ.
Your husband personality is same with me 😁
This is a really interesting comparison, thanks a lot for making it! I'm more familiar with MBTI, Enneagram being on my "todo list" for a long while. I was pretty sure that I'm a 5, but I wasn't sure about my wing. Now I understand that I'm a 5w4, having an artistic side and also the interest for dark things. Although, I'm working in a technical field, and I can relate to a lot of 5w6 properties. As I look back into my past, I definitely see the slow shift towards 5w6 (I was much more a 5w4 10 years ago). So this probably means that I became more balanced, which makes me pretty happy.
As a side note, 5w4 seems to be somewhat congruent with the INTP type, 5w6 being more similar with INTJs. This doesn't means that INTPs can't be 5w6s (or vice versa). Probably a healthier INTP shifts towards 5w6, and an INTJ towards 5w4, like you said.
I don't consider myself emotionless at all. I've spent my life helping and being supportive of others, even if I prefer to keep my worries to myself. I also don't see the usefulness in allowing others to trigger my emotions to control or direct me or my life, as happened when I was a child and young adult. And I'm more beneficial to others when I step back and strengthen my inner resources, and get clear within me, being able to respond from a neutral and understanding place. Honestly, though, I've worked to internalize what I consider one of the greatest truths to live by, "Be in the world but not of it." I've never seen theatrics and drama make any problems better.
I'm learning more about myself because of this.
“If you take that cerebral 5, who is very... mental..”
That hit different 😤😂
Blessings.
😂😂true
Haha yep I’m a 5w6/INTJ and i studied demons/satan/witches/shamanism etc in college for my degree in Anthropology and then i also got a minor in Calculus 😁
Highly accurate description of me as 5w4 - I’ve just realized that my attraction to concept of detachment has been motivated a lot more by fear than I wish it was. Also why I always gravitated to practicing detachment more than compassion, and never understood how to two are supposed to coincide...
you mean, as a 5, you are a selfish prick and unavailable
i hate being married to a 5 - its a prison
5s are useless in community
5w4, INTJ, schrizotypal.
Interest: MBTI, metaphysical (manifestation) or spirituality. Psychology. Chess/RTS.
Career: business oriented (marketing analytics) and pursuing a neuroscience BS for fun. Entrepreneurial.
5w4 mortician here. Born again Christian which is what has spiritually balanced my natural personality tendencies to live on the dark side a little. Emotional detachment is huge. Embalming and mortuary work almost requires this and I see I am truly in my calling professionally. This video was right on. Thank you!
I'm supposedly a 5 (5w4 in the last test), and I love philosophy. I love imaging a better world, and trying to find solutions for world peace, inner harmony, farmed animal rights, water scarcity and so on. I'm a cheerful, openly empathetic, compassionate person. I love to help my loved ones. I feel deeply for causes... I'm a caretaker... And I'm very friendly at all social gatherings (with friends and strangers). I feel the room, and know what each person needs to feel comfortable. I want social harmony, and fear emotional/irrational debates, and contentious people. At the same time, I want efficiency, correctness, am very detail oriented, and love to (over)analyse and rationalize everything. I adore research... At work I am much less a people-pleaser and more perfectionist, and don't mind (logical) debates. The goal is great work, good results: not ego stroking. Am I really a 5?
Nevermind the test said 4w5... 😜🤔 Still, also not sure about that...
Infj 5w4 here, it may be obvious but if any of you 5w4s are having trouble with expressing emotions then listen to some music that can truly resonate with you!
5w4 here, and a lot of what you are saying is pretty spot on.
As far as emotions go, I would bet money that 5s are probably the hardest to really understand out of any type. When kind of looking at myself I know for a fact that I have emotions, and in certain situations I can *certainly* feel them (en example being when I watch good films or read good books, which is why I like them so much), however, most of the time I don't let them influence my decisions *in a sense.* To explain further, emotions can cause an initial reaction that can cause problems, so my brain sees it as problematic when I or people I care about are negatively effected by a reaction based purely on emotion rather than taking in other information and making a logical conclusion, in an attempt to have the best outcome. Notice when I said that; the motivation for this was out of two things, myself an others. Usually others. Like this man said, I don't have a large numbers of friends, but I incredibly loyal to, and care very much for the few who I have decided are trustworthy. My role with friends and family (and I would guess other 5s are like this too) is not so much to cry *with,* but rather to cry *on* as an unmoving pillar.
Another interesting interaction I have noticed is that while I struggle to find the motivation to approach someone I don't know for conversation, I have zero issues with others approaching me and starting conversation. I really, really love talking to people, but as someone who appreciates personal boundaries, I don't like butting into someone else's business. That said, for some weird reason if I am in a public space and someone approaches me in order to talk I am all for it.
And finally, as a caveat to the last section, f*** small talk. I genuinely despise talking about the weather or other pointless topics.
What I view as a "good" conversation is talking about a subject with relative depth, either having intrinsic depth (politics, philosophy, theology, etc), or taking a much smaller topic and going into said topic in excruciating detail.
Just a few random thoughts, don't mind me.
Thank you so much for making these videos! I'm learning so much about myself and those around me!
You are so welcome.
Very inspiring. I’ve been praying for a while and writer is something that my heart is going toward. Having the ability to create a symphony with my words makes me quite emotional. -5w4 infj
5w4 = iconoclast, the entire video is worth listening to just for that equation. It explains a lot about my behavior, and gives me clues on how to deal with it. Thank you.
I'm struggling between 5w6 and 5w4, pretty sure I'm 6wing but I share more 4wing interests like art and such. Very intriguing but difficult.
Ikrr
My issue is I think I’m a 5w6 but I’m not big on science and math. I do love facts.
It was so funny when you said the Demonologist thing, because when I was 14 or 15 years old I was very into that kind of stuff, it really was my iconoclast era because I was raised as Catholic but since a very young age I never connected or "believed" in a god I cannot see or feel, so I was in a very agnostic / atheist journey in my teenage years. I'm 27 years old today and INTJ 5w4, everything you explained about Type 5 and wing 4 really resonates with things I've done in the past and present day
5w4 12:04
5w6 20:15
My wings are definitely balanced. I’m pursuing a degree that is fairly new in higher education, but lucrative enough that I will find a job, and innovative enough to make me feel individualistic. I love fantasy, mystery; watching media that will touch my emotions in a special, touching, bittersweet way. And I love math; it’s my favorite subject after all and it is pillar for my degree journey. Overall, I’ll always lean towards 5w4 but definitely am almost a 50/50 with having both wings.
This video helps corroborate that I am a 5w4. I'm not into demonology, because I don't think it has a basis in reality, but I did write my Ph.D. dissertation on evil, and back when I was in college, I believe I read everything by H. P. Lovecraft. I'm also a game creator, and I've created Game Courier for playing Chess variants online and a Turing-complete programming language for enabling it to enforce game rules and show legal moves. An example that came to mind for the Iconoclast would be Socrates. He spent much of his time explaining to people how they weren't really as knowledgeable as they thought they were, and this eventually led to him being put to death, but it also served as the foundation of western philosophy. And when I read Plato, Socrates feels like a real person whose personality was similar to my own. I have an interest in science, and I've read lots of popular science books, and perhaps a bit more extensively on evolution, but I never became a scientist.
I think 5w4 is correct for me. I never really vibed with that saying of the type you dislike most or feel most shamed by is yours, no matter how many things I read or watched (and I've been doing that for far too long). But you really put things into perspective because it was worded in a way that it hit a deep part of me - shame. Genuinely felt shame, not discomfort or anger, a real sense of 'crap that sounds really bad bc I DO THAT'. That's not to say that I am offended or anything, I'm actually almost relieved bc this should mean I finally nailed my type. Thank you for all the detail you give, the examples really help too.
The cost of isolating myself and how I do this...I hadn't been aware this was how it came across. As a child, I used to have no clue that being annoyed at interruptions to my reading was causing others to leave me alone though thankfully I am a little more aware now. It's still difficult to fully understand that not sharing anything about my personal life can be seen as abrasive as that's never my intent. Or wanting to shake up someone's belief by questioning why they think what they do. I didn't realise this can actually appear like I'm telling someone they don't really know what they're thinking, or rather that they wouldn't appreciate it as widening their perspective, like I would. I will be watching more of your videos on helping each type.
As for the demonologist comment, that actually sounds incredibly interesting. I used to think being a cursebreaker or something similar in Harry Potter sounded like the most exciting thing ever.
5 w 4 here. I agree about the interest in darkness. I was way into the darkness until I had children. Then I became curious about spirituality completely unwrapped from religion. Good stuff.
Thanks for the comment.