I think it's interesting that all your videos on type 4 are the most popular. It's like those who identify as type 4s are more interested in searching for themselves like the ennegram suggests
Can see why, lacking an identity sucks! Until I discovered the enneagrams I had been stuck in edgy phase for years, now I just accept the reality and don't try to force myself to find a group/thing to identify myself with.
@@twlahue Interesting that those numbers tend to go together as well. I'm a 4 married to a 9. Other podcasts/videos I have listened to mention this pairing often.
@@Evqureg96 Same! I'm married to a 9 and he doesn't understand the 4 in me, but also talking about deep stuff makes him anxious which is very 9 of him haha. I'm also a Scorpio and he's a Taurus, which seems to be another common pairing. That can have a lot of conflict if the relationship isn't cared for correctly.
Ya know music has helped my heart feel a little less lonely and realizing that my value matters i do have value and if i let others tear those down i have to show it more i decide to be lonley because i care too much of what other think once i realized that and realized what others think of me doesnt matter i have to take care of myself then i realized the lonliness fades we arent people pleasers ok but people lovers at least i am
Hell im way too blunt when yoir a guy pure like me looking for a life partner its hard and its painfull i cant evwn begin to explain how hard that is for us 4 w3 to find love i feel like a zombie taking swords in the heart but moving forward like im dead but still alive aearching for something
I’m a 4 w3 and it’s the most difficult feeling. I want to win. I’m competitive. However I HATE competition. I have severe anxiety when it comes to competitive things, yet, I value winning and being the best or at least in the top. I value recognition... and I HATE that I need it and beat myself up over it often. It’s such a conflicting aspect of who I am.
Girl I hear you. It's like on the outside it doesn't seem to phase us but on the inside we're born leaders who can be savage opponents!... but no one knows lol
Is there anyone else who can’t watch these videos all the way through in one sitting because every few minutes he says something that just HITS you and you have to pause and take a moment to contemplate your entire life?
@@TALIACORNELIUS SAME!!!!!! ALL THRU his mention of loving parents not being there for one reason or another... that's my entire childhood. I've since made peace with them/ it but wow.
I am a 4. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that children who experience trauma/ emotional neglect from the parent blame themselves. They absolutely do. Children blame themselves because it’s what they have to do to keep the parent internally good. So we now live with this never ending deep seeded belief that something is fundamentally wrong with us, even though intellectually I can objectively see that that may not be true, my feelings don’t recognize that.
Also- early on as a coping mechanism during my childhood (my dad was an absent abusive alcoholic), I would blame myself or attempt to harm myself in front of him to see if I was important enough for him to care and stop doing what he was doing. He didn’t. Therefore I am working through scarring that says I’m worthless and not adequate for relationships.
And to further that- I got into a relationship with a guy that I believed was so perfect. I prayed for a guy and I surrendered to Gods will and a week later this guy comes into my life and fully pursues me. Not just any guy, but the pastors son and the most handsome young man anyone had ever seen. I couldn’t believe it. We made all these plans and promises and I finally felt complete and whole (so so unhealthy). And after a year we broke up and I fully experienced the same loss and rejection I had in my childhood only ten fold now that I was able to fully comprehend it. It’s been two years and I’ve never been the same. I even experienced symptoms of ptsd for a year and a half after it ended. Complete loss of identity and self and I had never been so utterly worthless and destroyed in my life
Very well put! I never thought of this this way. Yes, the parents have to be the original god and goddess archetypes in a way and we have to keep them good to survive. It is we who must be in the wrong. I still struggle with this in my 50's dealing with a mother who never addressed her own trauma - and my father. I remember being in my teens and saying out loud to myself and then to a therapist, "I think there is something wrong with me that isn't wrong with everyone else I know." Even though I now know that this is not the case, I still feel it in some way. I have such a hard time being part of groups.
I sort of relate. Until a couple of years ago, I was such a 4w3. High achiever, no one knew how much I was suffering until I had a breakdown. Post-breakdown, my ego dissolved. I couldn’t keep up with the mask I was wearing. Now I don’t wear a mask as much. I’m a 4w5 now, but I find myself having to lean on my past 4w3 tendencies to get out of my shell and to take part in society.
@cherishtheday222 - I can relate to this. I was raised in a really strict religious sect and finally I just snapped. Now everyone's dead (just kidding). I had a nervous breakdown that was horrific. I just let go of everything: school, beliefs, girlfriend and friends in general. Had zero f***s to give about anything. Definitely had to lean on my five wing to find what truth really is, now that my belief system is broken. I'm sick and tired of just wearing an image for other people. Everyone can kiss my buttocks
For me it was my father’s problem of being a pedophile - I was his favorite - and my mother blamed me. My siblings were jealous of my good looks and courage. I left home at 18 and moved to the East Village. I was conveniently labeled “crazy” for “ making up” stories about my father. Luckily I’m brave and smart and did just fine without my toxic family with whom I no longer have ANY contact. Had it been easy? Absolutely not. But I’m my own person with lotsa friends, happily retired in Mexico 🇲🇽. Life is good!
I'm a 4. My mother is a narcissist. She would often say things like " I have tried for so long to love you, but there is nothing in you to love" in that " Oh, I wish that it was possible." kind of tone.
I really appreciate the way you talk about type fours. Especially considering the fact that you're a seven. You seem genuinely interested and appreciative of our emotional habits. I'm currently struggling with a feeling of not being appreciated for these specific habits of mine in my family so thank you so much for your compassion.
Tritype 471 here and I can totally understand the tension between 4s and 7s. I’m constantly going back and forth between being angsty and thinking “lol u were angsting about that?? Haha stoopid”. I am glad that in one small corner of the internet, these 2 types have found peace.
30:47 As a 4w3 (and NOT a 5 wing), I'm inherently very creative but can also become uncreative, and it seems it's because I lose my grip with creating for the process of creating and instead tend to think more in terms of seeking success, which stifles the process and makes me not want to do whatever project I'm working on. I can see how becoming more the 5 wing in this regard can help.
I am also a 4w3, can’t agree more. I often struggle with that. I have many creative ideas and want to be the best, but then I get weary in the process. I do realise when I was younger, I compete because I enjoy the process of bettering myself, I end up doing better than when I focus on winning.
Even though I'm a 4w5 , I feel ya... I love being creative, but once I start thinking about being successful, making money or being applauded, my anxiety creeps in. BOOM. The creative well is dry.
4w5 checking in. The Garden of Eden analogy is spot-on. My friends often call me an "angel" and acquaintances often describe me or treat me as "otherworldly". It's not a conscious act, I truly, deeply feel lost in this world. Like it's not good enough. Because I'm so in tune with the energy of what was. Perhaps I feel it too literally. I'm still practical and do all the human things to sustain this existence, but I can't not know, or not feel the connection to that God piece. Everything else pales in comparison. But then I also envy people that can find genuine joy in this existence. I've been practicing gratitude to ground me. The love thing is a whole other story. I'm a sexual instinct 4,so I refuse to suffer. I deliberately fashion myself as something desirable yet unobtainable. That's my middle finger to the libidos of the world. And although my own goes unfulfilled, at least I know I'm always "the one that got away". Very egocentric, but I also avoid many of the pitfalls that ruin others when they give in to the neediness and infatuation of love. Everything in this world requires sacrifice. Choose yours.
23:25 i spontaneously clapped my hands in the sense of 'AMEN to THAT!' i completely understand people who just don't get why i can't just go live my life sometimes. But it felt very soothing and healing to hear it put this compassionately. All the best and big thanks from Germany
I am 4w5 but with also a heavy 3 wing which helps me from becoming a complete weirdo. The 3 in me definitely wants achievement and success (recognition) and the 5 intellectually recognizes I am worthy of such, but the 4 feels like my defectiveness makes me unworthy. 4s also feel unworthy of love (b/c there is something wrong with us) and therefore if you love us there must be something wrong with you b/c if you knew how odd we felt you most certainly would not love us. The image of the 3 helps me function in daily life but it also adds a lot of narcissistic feelings within, and so I find myself reaching towards the 5 more just so I don't drive myself crazy. I am so thankful for the 5 wing. I don't think I could manage without it.
The explanation you said that we were all fallen, broken ever since the garden of Eden completely broke the bondages of the shame that gripped me for years! Thank you!
In my experience as a 4 and with others that I know, what you said about blaming ourselves is very accurate. We have this guilty nature even when we know we're dead wrong
4x3 here, I play the clarinet and classical guitar and I read a lot of classic works and I have studied philosophy. I love all my hobbies, but I also want to "appear" cultured to others (facade is important too) haha...I really relate to the aristocrat thing.
16:33 is perfectly said And 17:3419:14 I am an infp 4w5 This whole video is perfectly said. I've never been able to put my feelings and emotions into words. Thank you for this. Nail on the head throughout.
When you talked about the loss of love from a parent thing, that hit me extremely hard... My dad left me when I was 10, a week after my birthday, and I blamed it on myself for years and years. I blamed myself so much, that I attempted suicide. All I want in life is to feel worth it, and loved. I’ve longed for it for years, and I always blame myself for most of the bad things that have happened to me. I’m 15 right now, and I really appreciate this video. You make me feel worthy and noticed, thank you so much man. It means so much.
Im so sorry about what you went through - you are so young! Just know that you are in complete control of your life right now, and in a couple years when you look back you will feel proud of yourself for standing strong in times of vulnerability. Please take care of yourself, if you are patient the benefits will show 💕
Currently being read to FILTH SIR. No but seriously I've been having lots of troubles in life and thoughts about how I just feel unlovable, and then I find this video and you are reading my thoughts back to me
...INFP-T +4w5 here - your analysis of the nature of 4 is absolutely masterful - after over 6 1/2 decades on this planet, I can corroborate everything you've said. Thank you so much!...
NGL This was really hard to hear. At first I felt like I was being scolded lol I can spend days in my head and feel like I’m being productive, but idk...I don’t know how to be motivated for action. And I know I shouldn’t expect people to want to sit with me in my “moments” but I can’t get out. I isolate because I know no one wants to be around me and I can’t get out. This probably makes no sense, but maybe another 4w5 can relate?
Thank you so much for this video. As a 4w5 I have struggled with understanding what was so wrong with me that those closest to me did not care about me or wanted me to be “normal”. I now realize that maybe they were not trying to change me as a person but that they saw the value in my thoughts and understood that it was my approach to presenting those ideas that needed some work in order to turn them into a reality.
I have no idea how I got here... but wow! My little 4w5 heart feels so seen. And the opportunity to learn about how the traits of w3 can be of value to me is so good. What a great use of my time this has been! Thank you.
Adding this to my Favorites playlist. Resounding how you hit all of us in our spirits with the breakdown of our childhood experiences. I am INFP and a 4w5. I crave novelty, research, being inquisitive, artistic, empathetic, philosophical outlets. I love daydreaming and am addicted to this coping mechanism. I am going to try to learn how to "develop my wing 3 and develop this as a strength".
I’m really starting to realize as a 4w3 my competitive nature comes from wanting to win for my “status” but also not losing because that creates shame “embarrassment” feeling I let people down. So wild.
Good job! I think your 4 videos are popular among fours because you do a great job of explaining them and their dynamics. Too many (especially from the "narrative traditions") paint fours with, frankly, silly characterizations and create self-doubt for fours because they try to explain affectations as traits instead of the underlying dynamics that produce the affects. I, personally, had to struggle for years with "am I a 4w5 or a 5w4?" because of rather shallow presentations on what fours really are. I, for one, appreciate your willingness (even/especially as a non-4) to dig out and present the core elements of the 4, it's very important for all types, but as a four, I can't stress enough how wonderful it is to come across such compassion and true understanding for this type.
yup, I am definitely a 4w5 but I can see how sometimes I move to a 3 as I also tend to like the things that 3 like. and how it can benefit me. and when I spend too much time in my head and emotions, after a long while. I just say okay. enough I need to get things done and then suddenly I am a 1 and get everything accomplished. Thank you for making these 4s videos Tom. They have helped make the puzzle in my head more complete. Briggs, Enneagram, Astrology, human design, Spirituality, and esoteric knowledge all have contribute to my grand puzzle of my being. I am not only a better human for it but I can finally seriously contribute my service to humanity in my own unique way. and I love that. as I deeply want to make a real change in this world, for this world and all the beings that are in it. blessings and love to everyone.
This video explains my life. I thought I was a 2 because I seek love and acceptance, but no - listening to you here really struck home. It's like you were, again, explaining my life. And on the advice about developing both wings - totally. I'm a 4w5 and have been developing wing 3 for the past couple of years.
Thank you so much for this! It has given me a new insight into myself. With two wildly narcissistic parents and a vicious bully of a brother, I truly did grow up believing I was irredeemably flawed. It took me 20 years of therapy to realize that wasn’t true. I’m completely new to the enneagram, but I think I’m a 4w3. I found your description so understanding and compassionate. Before I watched this video, I had watched a different video about 4’s, and merely felt made fun of. It wasn’t helpful. THIS was helpful. Understanding some of the reasons behind my feelings helps to avoid the pitfalls. I greatly appreciate this. Thank you!
This video helped me so much. For a long time I was on the fence about whether I’m a 4w5 or 4w3 since I got 4w5 on all my tests but I’m often active and tend to see the world with a “everything sucks but it’s cool anyway” attitude and I can be an achiever if I’m in the right mood. But I think your video has convinced me that I’m a 4w5 as I’m less concerned with my image than I am with knowing that my mind and my ways of life set me apart from others. I also tend to withdraw from people and live inside my head when I’m not feeling the best rather than seek validation. I have 7 in my tritype, so the being active and finding everything exciting part makes sense. Before, I didn’t know that one can develop their opposite wing, so that must be where my potential to achieve comes from. Thank you so much for uploading!
My parents were extremely loving. My dad could be really critical but when it came to love, and being told I was loved, and knowing I was loved, that was a given. But I relate to everything else about 4s.
19:15 You hit the nail on the head. My dad and older sister constantly told me I was “too emotional” when I was really young and my dad went on to ignore me at all time unless I needed to be disciplined. My whole life I grew up thinking I was unlovable and watched myself sabotage my other familiar, romantic, and brotherly relationships, secretly both afraid of being rejected as well as punishing myself. I almost did it with my husband but luckily, with the help of a therapist, I realized that the unconditional love we yearn for has to also be extended to ourselves. That extreme empathy we feel for others has to turn into compassion for ourselves. Not so we can linger in that dark place but so we can prove others wrong by knowing we are worth being loved. Though I don’t entirely agree with the Christian theology, I do believe that there is a Creator that has beautifully and fiercely designed us so that we may serve the individual purposes we are put here for.
Thank u so much for all the efforts you put to actually understand people's different perspective. As a 4w3 I'm always dealing with balancing my emotions and my logical sense and it sometimes can get really frustrating considering my age(17) ,because sometimes I feel like maybe it is not so healthy to have these sort of deep emotions going on but on the other hand I can't really help it. So thank you again for investing your time to help people like us I really appreciate it.
12:41 "you can stay over focused on sorrow, pain, melancholy, suffering..." I heard that at the same time that I was practicing a song that I am working on, the lyrics the I was reading were "one more night of our foolish choice to be...so blinded to horrors, pretending we arent chased by the pain and the sorrow" What the hell man, so glad I found this video, really gives me an insight, thank you.
20:40 BROOOOO Another line in the SAME song is "May I find the courage to show my true desires and break my walls of criplying fear of rejection." Oh my gawwwwwwwwwwwwd
I grew up with an alcoholic and a workaholic who divorced and I also experienced verbal and physical abuse. They had money and presented the perfect image, but I always felt impoverished and still do emotionally somehow - like there is a paucity of active connection between myself and others. I am in my 50s' and want to try dating again now that I've done a lot of work in therapy for CPTSD, but I still don't know if I want to open myself up to more disappointment and all the awkwardness. Thank you for helping me to understand this. I am now far too self-protective after throwing myself into bad situations for too long. I see I have to challenge myself a bit more. I am both a 4w3 and a 4w5, according to a test I just took. Now, to get back to my art and quit worrying about it being good enough, etc..
I never realised this until it took me back to when I was around 10 y.o. what really hurted me the most when my dad prioritized and chose my sister over me, clearly made her his favorite when I was there breathing.. I am not sure though but I remember it till now. I don't know what else happened in my childhood that made me who I am.
Been doing a lot of self development in the last ten years. . . Everything from astrology to numerology to ancestral trauma. . . Last year I came across attachment styles and found deep awareness of who I am. . I would rather claim its my fault because if I am the problem I can fix it. . . To hear you say it only validates further all the aspects of all the modalities out there. . I find such divine patterning in all the studies of our human condition. Thank you for serving your purpose.
" I would rather claim its my fault because if I am the problem I can fix it." I literally said this many, many times .. many years ago. Once I got sober, I began to see my pattern of toxic relationships that were rooted in childhood neglect/abandonment/emotional abuse and now only make space in my life for relationships that are based in honesty, love, and respect. My circle is small. 🙂It has been/is a long, winding road of healing and the enneagram has been/is a profound tool.
What a great description of 4w5! Thank you for the amazing insight. (As 4s, you know we love insights!) As I get older, I get more, not less, willing to let my freak flag fly. I had to rely on that 3w as a young woman, but as an old woman, I csn fully embrace my 4w5 tendencies. 💜
You are so on the money! The man I thought was my dad died when I was 4 and another man announced himself as my father and went MIA! My mom was depressed and an alcoholic and I was a trigger for all the pain my father caused her. So I had to find direction in my internal world and accepted that it was not okay to be loved, protected or dependent on anyone
This encapsulates Enneagram for me perfectly for the core 4s. My best friend is a 3w and I am a 5w. She is an ENFJ and I am an INFP and you have illustrated the differences perfectly. She presents so beautifully and I really need to care more about my visual presentation, she cares more about her reputation and what impression she creates overall, again - I am quite apathetic about the latter aforementioned but wished this wasn't so. I laugh as I type this as it is so very frustrating yet amusing.
I can't believe how precises this is!! I just discovered that I'm a 4w5. When I listen to this, my jaw is dropping!! Oh, yes, and I do need to be more careful of what I say and how it comes across to the mundane world. Ha-ha-ha!
I'm a 4 but very closely I was only one percent less a 7. So the fact that you present that 7 and 4 are polar opposites in some ways, it totally makes sense why I feel so crazy all the time. Running away from feelings but also fully embracing and often overidentifying with hard feelings to then possibly avoid other more painful feelings. It's a lot but I feel more understood 😅
I was looking for this comment and I just wanted to say, same. I do think that us 4s with 7 in their tritype can become healthy and not crazy by developing a “go with the flow” kind of attitude and accepting our deeper emotions as just a part of ourselves, while also learning to laugh at them once in a while. Not to say take them less seriously, but just kind of embrace them and see them objectively. That’s how I manage anyhow.
There's a genuine respect, admiration and compassion with which you've delivered this. It feels rare...the message is usually 'it's all in your head'. If you just get over it you'll be fine. I love how you say an over attraction to grief etc. It's real, it's valid, it's maybe just not always helpful.
Since I’m into enneagrams, I’ve always thought I was a 4w3 because of how people’s judgements were important to me. But I recognised myself in this “wing 3 development” you talked about at the end. When I understood that finding someone that’d love me was going to be difficult (I was a teenager at that time), I tried to change to fit in, and started caring about others’ judgments. Also, thank you very much for your videos about 4s. It helps lots of us. ✨
I'm glad I just found this video. I'm a 4w3 and loss has been a topic all my life, now I've lost my best friend and soulmate and I'm digging deeper into the enneagram topic as a kind of distraction. You seem like such a kind and thoughtful man and this video has helped and calmed me more than all the counseling sessions I had. Big & heartfelt thanks for this and you gained a new follower.
“Odd is your address” - LOL, too true! 4w5 eccentric (with “eccentric” sometimes being a badge of honor, a marker of being “beyond the mundane” used to temporarily/unsuccessfully counterbalance ever-present, nagging feelings of worthlessness). You described the core wound so well. I remember wondering, at age 11, why I was so intrinsically flawed and thus unlikeable by anyone. I was changing schools that year and consciously decided to make myself invisible, thereby hiding my “defectiveness” from others and avoiding the pain of (guaranteed) future rejection. So, probably moved towards the 5 wing at that age. Have done various forms of art thru the years. A recurrent theme has been to illuminate the secret beauty in what’s usually discarded as broken, worthless or even repulsive by most of society - for example, a series of photographs showing bread mold (grown in my basement) up close, full of soft textures and interweaving colors. Portraits of homeless people, with the history of perennial human suffering and striving etched in their faces. The colorful patterns in rust, the beauty of a crack drawn across the once-perfect porcelain cup, fallen plants midway thru the process of decomposition and return to dust. Even if one doesn’t *do* any specific kind of art, Four perhaps is the shamanic artist - seeing what’s valuable, even beautiful, even in the shadow realms.
Something 😕 is missing or lost, that's why I connect so closely to my creator. He completes me, and also my devotion to God keeps me from acting on most of my spontaneous whims, which tend to be disastrous for me at times and not always good for others. I'll keep watching the video, only 8 minutes in, very interesting concepts about different personalities.
As an enneagramm 4w5 self-preservation I learned to main things out of listening to your videos. First: receiving help and not defy, because I see others wanted to change me, just pointing out non-benefical behaviours;). And at second: That the desire to suck in as much information to solve ones problem from the outside is beneficial, but at one point to say: know I understood it, it's time to embody this knowledge. I thinks that's the point where self-preserving types can bloom and be helpful to others:). Finally clarity comes without trying by accepting oneself:). Greetings from Germany
I am vegan was diagnosed with leukemia 2 years ago given 6 months to live. Had no interest in chemo am doing fine working with a shaman and hypnotherapist. So my 5 wing is alive and well 😉 you are so helpful! Thank you Dr Tom! 👍🏽
Sorry to hear about your leukemia, hope you are well! I just wanted to share this with you, just in case it will be of help for you. Water fasting seems to be effective for defeating cancer. From what I've learned, cancer cells need nutrition (they especially like carbohydrates), and when you fast you take away that nutrition, and cancer cells are supposedly very bad at surviving in this fasted environment. And even more promising is fasting combined with chemotherapy. Fasting increases the effectiveness of the chemo (it makes the chemo kill more cancer), and it also makes the side effects from chemo less bad. But fasting alone seems to be somewhat effective against cancer. It is talked about in this video: th-cam.com/video/SybTjP5LLhs/w-d-xo.html. (Note: This video talks about a study done on mice, but I think there was also some science done about it on humans, but I don't recall where I saw it.) Here, the alternative healing methods (fasting) is working wonderfully symbiotically with the methods of western medicine (chemo). If I ever get cancer, this is what I'll do. I'm water fasting right now to aid the healing of a foot injury; day 5 right now. It's easier than you might think. :)
I admire you and your insight on the Enneagram. As a certified facilitator on the Enneagram I have probably researched most of the so called, “gurus”, and you are providing tremendous insight as well receiving insight. Now here comes some insight:), Prince did not use a symbol for his name or change his name to, “The Artist Formerly Known as Prince” to just be different. It happened after a dispute with his record company which he wanted to leave and they more or less said they owned his music they produced with his Prince name. In a brilliant Type 4 move, he said you can take the name, I’m still the Artist and people will know who I am, so keep the name. He was Right.
Holy snot talking about type 4 so in-depth really hit the nail on the head. I've worked out some of the issues I have as a Type 4, but man, I didn't realize that my own wailing gets in the way of me being happy. Also talking about 4w5 showed me even more about myself, considering that I basically fit that type so much. I really have to thank you cause this really made me think.
I had to pause the video. I'm less than 3 minutes in and sobbing. Ok, carry on. Edit: As I continue watching, so many of these traits I identify with at different times in my life and can see how I had a choice to live in it or to rise above it. I'm thankful we are not stuck where we are, but we can grow. Growth doesn't change who we are, but it makes us better versions of ourselves. I'm still a 4w5, but I can use my empathy to help others going through hard times rather than just stewing in my own misery.
Interesting. I’m applying this to things like trauma response, ptsd, cptsd, and post traumatic growth. It sounds, from the video, that there are personality types that are more susceptible to things like ptsd/cptsd than other personality types. It makes me wonder what personality types are more likely to have post traumatic growth, thriving post trauma. I’m also thinking that 4 may see a stronger than others after being impacted by ACES.
For example, a teen with a 4 personality type with an ACES of 5 may be way more impacted than a person with the same ACES and a different personality type. Maybe a soldier or a domestic violence survivor with a 4 personality type is more likely to develop intense ptsd than someone else. Interesting
As a 4w5, THANK YOU, you just helped me to understand myself so much better and why I experience and go through the things I do at this stage of my life. I knew it instinctively but you helped me to Intelectualize it and be able to put in into words. Just in middle of a break up after 2y living with a type 8(w7?) which I love and respect very much but can't deal with and she probably feels the same way. You are absolutely right about the need to balance my 4w5 with w3 to get some real practical action in life.
I feel so seen as a 4w5. This. Is. So. Me!!! I don't even know when it happened lol. I think before the past few years, I was likely more 4w3... had more concern about doing it better than.... and appearance. BUT NOW... After having about 7 years of seclusion/ working from home / online entrepreneurship...I think my 5 wing got more developed. This is so useful. Thank you for taking time to create this. I have some "guidance" on how to move forward and pull some of that 3-ness off the shelf to reach some of the goals I have.
As a good 4 person, i must say, that the most enjoyable parts of this videos are the one he says "this is so profound, this is so interesting" hahahaha because it actually flatters me in a very weird way. It's :Hey you're broken, but you're very interesting broken person.
i always tell myself i am 4w5 but wings 3 is showing itself too. Now i struggle to choose my wing. By the way I dont think something is wrong with me and i LOVE myself for being a 4 and you guys should too. I think thinking like this is special and worthy to live, you can see the world so much colorful. I admire myself for my brain and if people can see and think like me i think they would admire too.
I always test as both depending on my mood, it's been like 60% 4w3 & 40% 4w5. It's so conflicting, I relate to so many things you said about both of them. 😩
My father was completely emotionally absent and struggled to care about anything, and even though he left when i was 5 it still had this unspoken impact. Now all the love and affection my mother shows me i resent it. I cant bring myself to let anyone know how much they actually mean to me unless i know they dont care. For the longest time i thought something was wrong with me because i physically couldnt show affection to my family. Thank you for giving me clarity.
You are so thorough and it has truly helped me feel more comfortable in my skin. I'm a 4w5 and this whole video truly resonated with me. To see the connection back to the garden has truly opened my eyes to understanding the enneagram and being a 4 better. Thank you! Blessings!
I’m a 4x3 and it’s a bit difficult to admit that to myself because I’d much rather be a 4x5. I’m not sure why. But I’m very very 4x3 even though I identify more with 4x5 that’s just me not admitting it to myself... If that makes sense.
Tom: I've just discovered your channel. This video plus the Christian perspective you bring too, has been immeasureably meaningful. It's taken me decades to realize I'm a 4w5 needing to "borrow" from the w3. I truly need to "camp" awhile and ponder the depth here.
I grant myself pockets of time to dwell, to cry, to purge...and then I pick myself up and move forward. I have an "eff you" type mentality that drives me to push through. Also, not sure about the other 4s here but I exercise like it's my job, helps with the ruminating and increases positivity. 4w5 --- we're not nearly as douchey as you seem to think about certain things. We like what we like. It doesn't have to be the polar opposite of the mainstream, we aren't hipster; it just has to be something we truly connect with/enjoy.
I thought I was a 1 for several years, then I thought I was a 2 for a couple of years. I now realize I’m a 4w5. I think I had to heal a lot of trauma before I could see through the trauma traits of perfectionism and people pleasing before seeing my true nature. I am very eccentric and zeroed in on suffering. I shifted into Tibetan Buddhism for that reason, because of all of their focus on suffering. Also because I love learning the Tibetan language and the artistic nature of Tibetan Buddhism. I’m also zeroed in on the suffering of Christ and how he is closest to us in our suffering when we are ready to ask for help. People regularly come to my office at work to discuss the things that would bring them shame to discuss on the trading floor. My art is all about healing from trauma and it incorporates different aspects of my spiritual practice. I recognize that I can come off as a little eccentric to people and that I probably like that because it protects me from being abandoned. I love listening to you. 🙏🏻
4w5 here married to a 7w8 for 18 years. It’s been a long difficult journey with many ups and downs as we learn how to better love, respect & relate to one another.
4w3 my bio father and his family refused to acknowledge me, my mother was abusive, and my husband left me for a co worker and I have spent SO much time in therapy b/c I internalize all that as me missing something that makes a person lovable and I’m constantly trying to improve myself and find that thing. I also know it’s completely illogical but that doesn’t stop me from feeling that way 🤷♀️
I think it's interesting that all your videos on type 4 are the most popular.
It's like those who identify as type 4s are more interested in searching for themselves like the ennegram suggests
Can see why, lacking an identity sucks! Until I discovered the enneagrams I had been stuck in edgy phase for years, now I just accept the reality and don't try to force myself to find a group/thing to identify myself with.
Yes, 4 and 9 are most popular. Interesting isn't it.
@@twlahue Interesting that those numbers tend to go together as well. I'm a 4 married to a 9. Other podcasts/videos I have listened to mention this pairing often.
9's keep coming back because they forget the stuff you told
@@Evqureg96 Same! I'm married to a 9 and he doesn't understand the 4 in me, but also talking about deep stuff makes him anxious which is very 9 of him haha. I'm also a Scorpio and he's a Taurus, which seems to be another common pairing. That can have a lot of conflict if the relationship isn't cared for correctly.
We tolerate loneliness to avoid abandondment.
Well said
Damn this makes sense no wonder i live alone and have problem finding love
@@SolomonSage yea😞
Ya know music has helped my heart feel a little less lonely and realizing that my value matters i do have value and if i let others tear those down i have to show it more i decide to be lonley because i care too much of what other think once i realized that and realized what others think of me doesnt matter i have to take care of myself then i realized the lonliness fades we arent people pleasers ok but people lovers at least i am
Hell im way too blunt when yoir a guy pure like me looking for a life partner its hard and its painfull i cant evwn begin to explain how hard that is for us 4 w3 to find love i feel like a zombie taking swords in the heart but moving forward like im dead but still alive aearching for something
I’m a 4 w3 and it’s the most difficult feeling. I want to win. I’m competitive. However I HATE competition. I have severe anxiety when it comes to competitive things, yet, I value winning and being the best or at least in the top. I value recognition... and I HATE that I need it and beat myself up over it often. It’s such a conflicting aspect of who I am.
Girl I hear you. It's like on the outside it doesn't seem to phase us but on the inside we're born leaders who can be savage opponents!... but no one knows lol
What r u on Jong personality test
I am a 4w3 also. Make things worth asking important questions that lead you to action, I hope works for you, so much dilemma going on, ha?
I feel you soooooooooooo much!
Its te first time I fell so understood... this is exactly how I feel!
Is there anyone else who can’t watch these videos all the way through in one sitting because every few minutes he says something that just HITS you and you have to pause and take a moment to contemplate your entire life?
Sorry...Thanks...Blessings!
Yes I had flash backs from when I was a kid...stuff I’ve never thought impacted me but wow that’s crazy it’s hits deep!
Yes!!! Lol.
@@TALIACORNELIUS SAME!!!!!! ALL THRU his mention of loving parents not being there for one reason or another... that's my entire childhood. I've since made peace with them/ it but wow.
AHHHHHH me 😂 i was reading this comment thinking “haha, but i dont think i really do that” then i got to 16:34 and i was like *pause* 😶
You speak in such a passionate way about 4s, it makes me feel like maybe I'm not so bad after all haha. (I'm a 4w5) Thank you.
Glad you found my channel. Blessings.
4w5 here too, feel the exact same way!!
Same 🖤
Same. So good. Full 4w5
Sounds like your also chriatian bub noce to meet you
I am a 4. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that children who experience trauma/ emotional neglect from the parent blame themselves. They absolutely do. Children blame themselves because it’s what they have to do to keep the parent internally good. So we now live with this never ending deep seeded belief that something is fundamentally wrong with us, even though intellectually I can objectively see that that may not be true, my feelings don’t recognize that.
Also- early on as a coping mechanism during my childhood (my dad was an absent abusive alcoholic), I would blame myself or attempt to harm myself in front of him to see if I was important enough for him to care and stop doing what he was doing. He didn’t. Therefore I am working through scarring that says I’m worthless and not adequate for relationships.
And to further that- I got into a relationship with a guy that I believed was so perfect. I prayed for a guy and I surrendered to Gods will and a week later this guy comes into my life and fully pursues me. Not just any guy, but the pastors son and the most handsome young man anyone had ever seen. I couldn’t believe it. We made all these plans and promises and I finally felt complete and whole (so so unhealthy). And after a year we broke up and I fully experienced the same loss and rejection I had in my childhood only ten fold now that I was able to fully comprehend it. It’s been two years and I’ve never been the same. I even experienced symptoms of ptsd for a year and a half after it ended. Complete loss of identity and self and I had never been so utterly worthless and destroyed in my life
Incredibly profound and insightful! This comment has helped me understand something. Thank you.
😭
Very well put! I never thought of this this way. Yes, the parents have to be the original god and goddess archetypes in a way and we have to keep them good to survive. It is we who must be in the wrong. I still struggle with this in my 50's dealing with a mother who never addressed her own trauma - and my father. I remember being in my teens and saying out loud to myself and then to a therapist, "I think there is something wrong with me that isn't wrong with everyone else I know." Even though I now know that this is not the case, I still feel it in some way. I have such a hard time being part of groups.
4w3 24:33
4w5 28:45
Ily
God bless the time stampers
@@isaacsmith1729 As someone with ADD I agree
Thank you 🙏
Im a 4w5 in my inner world but portray myself as a 4w3 in my outer world. I feel like at any moment im going to be called out as an imposter.
So same wouah 😭💔
Me too!!!!
Ilona Nagy you gotta watch his get out of the basement video for 4’s. It answered so many questions. The m&m theory is brilliant.
I sort of relate. Until a couple of years ago, I was such a 4w3. High achiever, no one knew how much I was suffering until I had a breakdown. Post-breakdown, my ego dissolved. I couldn’t keep up with the mask I was wearing. Now I don’t wear a mask as much. I’m a 4w5 now, but I find myself having to lean on my past 4w3 tendencies to get out of my shell and to take part in society.
@cherishtheday222 - I can relate to this. I was raised in a really strict religious sect and finally I just snapped. Now everyone's dead (just kidding). I had a nervous breakdown that was horrific. I just let go of everything: school, beliefs, girlfriend and friends in general. Had zero f***s to give about anything. Definitely had to lean on my five wing to find what truth really is, now that my belief system is broken. I'm sick and tired of just wearing an image for other people. Everyone can kiss my buttocks
as a 4w5, this actually makes me feel a little less insane and alone.
Lol true 😂
For me it was my father’s problem of being a pedophile - I was his favorite - and my mother blamed me. My siblings were jealous of my good looks and courage. I left home at 18 and moved to the East Village. I was conveniently labeled “crazy” for “ making up” stories about my father. Luckily I’m brave and smart and did just fine without my toxic family with whom I no longer have ANY contact. Had it been easy? Absolutely not. But I’m my own person with lotsa friends, happily retired in Mexico 🇲🇽. Life is good!
You're such a strong, brave person. I'm sorry that you had to go through all of that. You're an inspiration! 🇲🇽
This must have been so difficult but I’m glad you made it and you’re safe now!
Your account is similar to
mine. God helped me sooo much through the Enneagram. I'm a 3-4.
Good for you! Tough place to begin in, but you made it out and forged yourself a life. Salud!
Shit, that sounds rough.
I'm a 4. My mother is a narcissist. She would often say things like " I have tried for so long to love you, but there is nothing in you to love" in that " Oh, I wish that it was possible." kind of tone.
I really appreciate the way you talk about type fours. Especially considering the fact that you're a seven. You seem genuinely interested and appreciative of our emotional habits. I'm currently struggling with a feeling of not being appreciated for these specific habits of mine in my family so thank you so much for your compassion.
(my mom is a type seven and I'm struggling with her especially)
Glad you found my channel. Believe me, I know, us 7's can be a pain in the butt.
Tritype 471 here and I can totally understand the tension between 4s and 7s. I’m constantly going back and forth between being angsty and thinking “lol u were angsting about that?? Haha stoopid”. I am glad that in one small corner of the internet, these 2 types have found peace.
²
2
30:47 As a 4w3 (and NOT a 5 wing), I'm inherently very creative but can also become uncreative, and it seems it's because I lose my grip with creating for the process of creating and instead tend to think more in terms of seeking success, which stifles the process and makes me not want to do whatever project I'm working on. I can see how becoming more the 5 wing in this regard can help.
I feeeel you! That’s my constant battle every time I try to create.
So that’s what’s happening to me
I am also a 4w3, can’t agree more. I often struggle with that. I have many creative ideas and want to be the best, but then I get weary in the process. I do realise when I was younger, I compete because I enjoy the process of bettering myself, I end up doing better than when I focus on winning.
Even though I'm a 4w5 , I feel ya... I love being creative, but once I start thinking about being successful, making money or being applauded, my anxiety creeps in. BOOM. The creative well is dry.
holy fvck same.
4w5 checking in. The Garden of Eden analogy is spot-on. My friends often call me an "angel" and acquaintances often describe me or treat me as "otherworldly". It's not a conscious act, I truly, deeply feel lost in this world. Like it's not good enough. Because I'm so in tune with the energy of what was. Perhaps I feel it too literally. I'm still practical and do all the human things to sustain this existence, but I can't not know, or not feel the connection to that God piece. Everything else pales in comparison. But then I also envy people that can find genuine joy in this existence. I've been practicing gratitude to ground me. The love thing is a whole other story. I'm a sexual instinct 4,so I refuse to suffer. I deliberately fashion myself as something desirable yet unobtainable. That's my middle finger to the libidos of the world. And although my own goes unfulfilled, at least I know I'm always "the one that got away". Very egocentric, but I also avoid many of the pitfalls that ruin others when they give in to the neediness and infatuation of love. Everything in this world requires sacrifice. Choose yours.
Yes I envy seemingly happy people...people happy in this world..!!
23:25 i spontaneously clapped my hands in the sense of 'AMEN to THAT!'
i completely understand people who just don't get why i can't just go live my life sometimes. But it felt very soothing and healing to hear it put this compassionately. All the best and big thanks from Germany
Spot on! As a 4w5 I finally feel understood on a deeper level. Suffering to avoid more suffering. That's me.
Ouch! I don't want to know the truth. I need to be happy, I don't need to be honest. Where are the "like minds?"🤔
(Sarcasm)
I am 4w5 but with also a heavy 3 wing which helps me from becoming a complete weirdo. The 3 in me definitely wants achievement and success (recognition) and the 5 intellectually recognizes I am worthy of such, but the 4 feels like my defectiveness makes me unworthy. 4s also feel unworthy of love (b/c there is something wrong with us) and therefore if you love us there must be something wrong with you b/c if you knew how odd we felt you most certainly would not love us. The image of the 3 helps me function in daily life but it also adds a lot of narcissistic feelings within, and so I find myself reaching towards the 5 more just so I don't drive myself crazy. I am so thankful for the 5 wing. I don't think I could manage without it.
Thanks for the insight.
My sister from another mister (4w5)
This is exactly how I feel as a 4w5.
I understood this perfectly 😅
Thank you Mr. LaHue. The phrase “I’d rather be broken but in control than Ok but not in control” made me reflect on my whole life.
The explanation you said that we were all fallen, broken ever since the garden of Eden completely broke the bondages of the shame that gripped me for years! Thank you!
🌻💛 I hope you are well !
In my experience as a 4 and with others that I know, what you said about blaming ourselves is very accurate. We have this guilty nature even when we know we're dead wrong
Thanks for sharing that.
4x3 here, I play the clarinet and classical guitar and I read a lot of classic works and I have studied philosophy. I love all my hobbies, but I also want to "appear" cultured to others (facade is important too) haha...I really relate to the aristocrat thing.
same
16:33 is perfectly said
And 17:34 19:14
I am an infp 4w5
This whole video is perfectly said. I've never been able to put my feelings and emotions into words. Thank you for this. Nail on the head throughout.
When you talked about the loss of love from a parent thing, that hit me extremely hard... My dad left me when I was 10, a week after my birthday, and I blamed it on myself for years and years. I blamed myself so much, that I attempted suicide.
All I want in life is to feel worth it, and loved. I’ve longed for it for years, and I always blame myself for most of the bad things that have happened to me.
I’m 15 right now, and I really appreciate this video. You make me feel worthy and noticed, thank you so much man. It means so much.
Im so sorry about what you went through - you are so young! Just know that you are in complete control of your life right now, and in a couple years when you look back you will feel proud of yourself for standing strong in times of vulnerability. Please take care of yourself, if you are patient the benefits will show 💕
Hi La Sánta, how are you doing now? Two years, from 15 to 17, in covid years as well, I hope you found your peace with your father leaving.
❤️🤗❤️💪🍀✌️
im a 4w3 and the way you talk about us makes me feel less lonely, thank you:)
Thank you Dr.Lahue! I feel loved and seen when i watch your informative and thorough videos. I feel like youre a safe guardian for the fours 💚
Wonderful!
Currently being read to FILTH SIR. No but seriously I've been having lots of troubles in life and thoughts about how I just feel unlovable, and then I find this video and you are reading my thoughts back to me
...INFP-T +4w5 here - your analysis of the nature of 4 is absolutely masterful - after over 6 1/2 decades on this planet, I can corroborate everything you've said. Thank you so much!...
NGL This was really hard to hear. At first I felt like I was being scolded lol I can spend days in my head and feel like I’m being productive, but idk...I don’t know how to be motivated for action. And I know I shouldn’t expect people to want to sit with me in my “moments” but I can’t get out. I isolate because I know no one wants to be around me and I can’t get out. This probably makes no sense, but maybe another 4w5 can relate?
i relate 💙
There was some scolding. There was also a lot of insight. Let's all have these conversations without the scolding. This video was enlightening.
Omg yes.. i feel like im productive but realise its all in my head.. 😭🤣
I hear you and I relate
Makes perfect sense 💕 you're not alone
Fellow 4w5
Thank you so much for this video. As a 4w5 I have struggled with understanding what was so wrong with me that those closest to me did not care about me or wanted me to be “normal”. I now realize that maybe they were not trying to change me as a person but that they saw the value in my thoughts and understood that it was my approach to presenting those ideas that needed some work in order to turn them into a reality.
I have no idea how I got here... but wow! My little 4w5 heart feels so seen. And the opportunity to learn about how the traits of w3 can be of value to me is so good. What a great use of my time this has been! Thank you.
Adding this to my Favorites playlist. Resounding how you hit all of us in our spirits with the breakdown of our childhood experiences. I am INFP and a 4w5.
I crave novelty, research, being inquisitive, artistic, empathetic, philosophical outlets. I love daydreaming and am addicted to this coping mechanism. I am going to try to learn how to "develop my wing 3 and develop this as a strength".
This is such a great explanation of 4. I'm a 4w5 and have always felt "different". But that's how God made me.
I’m really starting to realize as a 4w3 my competitive nature comes from wanting to win for my “status” but also not losing because that creates shame “embarrassment” feeling I let people down. So wild.
Good job! I think your 4 videos are popular among fours because you do a great job of explaining them and their dynamics. Too many (especially from the "narrative traditions") paint fours with, frankly, silly characterizations and create self-doubt for fours because they try to explain affectations as traits instead of the underlying dynamics that produce the affects. I, personally, had to struggle for years with "am I a 4w5 or a 5w4?" because of rather shallow presentations on what fours really are.
I, for one, appreciate your willingness (even/especially as a non-4) to dig out and present the core elements of the 4, it's very important for all types, but as a four, I can't stress enough how wonderful it is to come across such compassion and true understanding for this type.
Thanks for sharing this. I appreciate it.
yup, I am definitely a 4w5 but I can see how sometimes I move to a 3 as I also tend to like the things that 3 like. and how it can benefit me. and when I spend too much time in my head and emotions, after a long while. I just say okay. enough I need to get things done and then suddenly I am a 1 and get everything accomplished. Thank you for making these 4s videos Tom. They have helped make the puzzle in my head more complete. Briggs, Enneagram, Astrology, human design, Spirituality, and esoteric knowledge all have contribute to my grand puzzle of my being. I am not only a better human for it but I can finally seriously contribute my service to humanity in my own unique way. and I love that. as I deeply want to make a real change in this world, for this world and all the beings that are in it. blessings and love to everyone.
This video explains my life. I thought I was a 2 because I seek love and acceptance, but no - listening to you here really struck home. It's like you were, again, explaining my life.
And on the advice about developing both wings - totally. I'm a 4w5 and have been developing wing 3 for the past couple of years.
Unbelievable conclusion: Something is taken from our hand and that leaves space to receive. Congratulations and thank you.
Thank you so much for this! It has given me a new insight into myself. With two wildly narcissistic parents and a vicious bully of a brother, I truly did grow up believing I was irredeemably flawed. It took me 20 years of therapy to realize that wasn’t true. I’m completely new to the enneagram, but I think I’m a 4w3. I found your description so understanding and compassionate. Before I watched this video, I had watched a different video about 4’s, and merely felt made fun of. It wasn’t helpful. THIS was helpful. Understanding some of the reasons behind my feelings helps to avoid the pitfalls. I greatly appreciate this. Thank you!
This video helped me so much. For a long time I was on the fence about whether I’m a 4w5 or 4w3 since I got 4w5 on all my tests but I’m often active and tend to see the world with a “everything sucks but it’s cool anyway” attitude and I can be an achiever if I’m in the right mood. But I think your video has convinced me that I’m a 4w5 as I’m less concerned with my image than I am with knowing that my mind and my ways of life set me apart from others. I also tend to withdraw from people and live inside my head when I’m not feeling the best rather than seek validation. I have 7 in my tritype, so the being active and finding everything exciting part makes sense. Before, I didn’t know that one can develop their opposite wing, so that must be where my potential to achieve comes from. Thank you so much for uploading!
My parents were extremely loving. My dad could be really critical but when it came to love, and being told I was loved, and knowing I was loved, that was a given. But I relate to everything else about 4s.
19:15 You hit the nail on the head. My dad and older sister constantly told me I was “too emotional” when I was really young and my dad went on to ignore me at all time unless I needed to be disciplined. My whole life I grew up thinking I was unlovable and watched myself sabotage my other familiar, romantic, and brotherly relationships, secretly both afraid of being rejected as well as punishing myself. I almost did it with my husband but luckily, with the help of a therapist, I realized that the unconditional love we yearn for has to also be extended to ourselves. That extreme empathy we feel for others has to turn into compassion for ourselves. Not so we can linger in that dark place but so we can prove others wrong by knowing we are worth being loved. Though I don’t entirely agree with the Christian theology, I do believe that there is a Creator that has beautifully and fiercely designed us so that we may serve the individual purposes we are put here for.
Thank u so much for all the efforts you put to actually understand people's different perspective. As a 4w3 I'm always dealing with balancing my emotions and my logical sense and it sometimes can get really frustrating considering my age(17) ,because sometimes I feel like maybe it is not so healthy to have these sort of deep emotions going on but on the other hand I can't really help it.
So thank you again for investing your time to help people like us I really appreciate it.
im not crying, you're
got me crying through several parts of this video.... I am learning.. thank you. (4w5)
This is the most relatable analysis I've heard of 4w5. I was laughing out loud at some of the nails you hit directly on the head.
Who else started crying at 16:36?
whew.
👋🏻👋🏻 (infp 4w3 here)
4w5: 22:35 made me start crying at my desk at work. It’s so ludicrously accurate.
As a four, it's awesome to hear someone address our issues without an undercurrent of contempt. Thank you so much!
Happy to help!
12:41 "you can stay over focused on sorrow, pain, melancholy, suffering..."
I heard that at the same time that I was practicing a song that I am working on, the lyrics the I was reading were "one more night of our foolish choice to be...so blinded to horrors, pretending we arent chased by the pain and the sorrow"
What the hell man, so glad I found this video, really gives me an insight, thank you.
20:40 BROOOOO
Another line in the SAME song is "May I find the courage to show my true desires and break my walls of criplying fear of rejection."
Oh my gawwwwwwwwwwwwd
@@ulisesramirez6614 can you share song names?
@@utkarsh3708 it’s an original on my Chanel, it’s called “One more” if I recall correctly.
I grew up with an alcoholic and a workaholic who divorced and I also experienced verbal and physical abuse. They had money and presented the perfect image, but I always felt impoverished and still do emotionally somehow - like there is a paucity of active connection between myself and others.
I am in my 50s' and want to try dating again now that I've done a lot of work in therapy for CPTSD, but I still don't know if I want to open myself up to more disappointment and all the awkwardness. Thank you for helping me to understand this. I am now far too self-protective after throwing myself into bad situations for too long. I see I have to challenge myself a bit more. I am both a 4w3 and a 4w5, according to a test I just took.
Now, to get back to my art and quit worrying about it being good enough, etc..
I never realised this until it took me back to when I was around 10 y.o. what really hurted me the most when my dad prioritized and chose my sister over me, clearly made her his favorite when I was there breathing..
I am not sure though but I remember it till now. I don't know what else happened in my childhood that made me who I am.
Been doing a lot of self development in the last ten years. . . Everything from astrology to numerology to ancestral trauma. . . Last year I came across attachment styles and found deep awareness of who I am. . I would rather claim its my fault because if I am the problem I can fix it. . . To hear you say it only validates further all the aspects of all the modalities out there. . I find such divine patterning in all the studies of our human condition. Thank you for serving your purpose.
" I would rather claim its my fault because if I am the problem I can fix it." I literally said this many, many times .. many years ago. Once I got sober, I began to see my pattern of toxic relationships that were rooted in childhood neglect/abandonment/emotional abuse and now only make space in my life for relationships that are based in honesty, love, and respect. My circle is small. 🙂It has been/is a long, winding road of healing and the enneagram has been/is a profound tool.
I thought I was a 2 because I cried when I listened BUT this one hits me harder..
What a great description of 4w5! Thank you for the amazing insight. (As 4s, you know we love insights!) As I get older, I get more, not less, willing to let my freak flag fly. I had to rely on that 3w as a young woman, but as an old woman, I csn fully embrace my 4w5 tendencies. 💜
I so relate to this! The older I get the more eccentric seems like my normal....
"the people that were supposed to love you withdrew from you, and it doesn't make sense to you why they did that" really hits for my childhood self
You are so on the money! The man I thought was my dad died when I was 4 and another man announced himself as my father and went MIA! My mom was depressed and an alcoholic and I was a trigger for all the pain my father caused her. So I had to find direction in my internal world and accepted that it was not okay to be loved, protected or dependent on anyone
This encapsulates Enneagram for me perfectly for the core 4s. My best friend is a 3w and I am a 5w. She is an ENFJ and I am an INFP and you have illustrated the differences perfectly. She presents so beautifully and I really need to care more about my visual presentation, she cares more about her reputation and what impression she creates overall, again - I am quite apathetic about the latter aforementioned but wished this wasn't so. I laugh as I type this as it is so very frustrating yet amusing.
damn nobody has ever read me so well. 4w5 here feeling ~understood~ for the first time
I cried for almost this entire video. Thank you, very much. The Lord bless you and keep you
I can't believe how precises this is!! I just discovered that I'm a 4w5. When I listen to this, my jaw is dropping!! Oh, yes, and I do need to be more careful of what I say and how it comes across to the mundane world. Ha-ha-ha!
I'm a 4 but very closely I was only one percent less a 7. So the fact that you present that 7 and 4 are polar opposites in some ways, it totally makes sense why I feel so crazy all the time. Running away from feelings but also fully embracing and often overidentifying with hard feelings to then possibly avoid other more painful feelings. It's a lot but I feel more understood 😅
I was looking for this comment and I just wanted to say, same. I do think that us 4s with 7 in their tritype can become healthy and not crazy by developing a “go with the flow” kind of attitude and accepting our deeper emotions as just a part of ourselves, while also learning to laugh at them once in a while. Not to say take them less seriously, but just kind of embrace them and see them objectively. That’s how I manage anyhow.
@@benadrylcabbagepatch2527 I feel the same, it’s hard but improving ourselves to the best will form a great personality
This is so profound and makes so much sense after seeing myself more objectively after a year of therapy, thank you very much 🥲
There's a genuine respect, admiration and compassion with which you've delivered this. It feels rare...the message is usually 'it's all in your head'. If you just get over it you'll be fine. I love how you say an over attraction to grief etc. It's real, it's valid, it's maybe just not always helpful.
I love how in depth you are with your analysis on each enneagram. I’m a 4 wing 3
Since I’m into enneagrams, I’ve always thought I was a 4w3 because of how people’s judgements were important to me. But I recognised myself in this “wing 3 development” you talked about at the end. When I understood that finding someone that’d love me was going to be difficult (I was a teenager at that time), I tried to change to fit in, and started caring about others’ judgments.
Also, thank you very much for your videos about 4s. It helps lots of us. ✨
I'm glad I just found this video. I'm a 4w3 and loss has been a topic all my life, now I've lost my best friend and soulmate and I'm digging deeper into the enneagram topic as a kind of distraction. You seem like such a kind and thoughtful man and this video has helped and calmed me more than all the counseling sessions I had. Big & heartfelt thanks for this and you gained a new follower.
I lost a dear friend too. It helps to understand how your emotion work and run deep... 🌻💛 I hope this journey of self understanding heals you 🌄
“Odd is your address” - LOL, too true! 4w5 eccentric (with “eccentric” sometimes being a badge of honor, a marker of being “beyond the mundane” used to temporarily/unsuccessfully counterbalance ever-present, nagging feelings of worthlessness).
You described the core wound so well. I remember wondering, at age 11, why I was so intrinsically flawed and thus unlikeable by anyone. I was changing schools that year and consciously decided to make myself invisible, thereby hiding my “defectiveness” from others and avoiding the pain of (guaranteed) future rejection. So, probably moved towards the 5 wing at that age.
Have done various forms of art thru the years. A recurrent theme has been to illuminate the secret beauty in what’s usually discarded as broken, worthless or even repulsive by most of society - for example, a series of photographs showing bread mold (grown in my basement) up close, full of soft textures and interweaving colors. Portraits of homeless people, with the history of perennial human suffering and striving etched in their faces. The colorful patterns in rust, the beauty of a crack drawn across the once-perfect porcelain cup, fallen plants midway thru the process of decomposition and return to dust. Even if one doesn’t *do* any specific kind of art, Four perhaps is the shamanic artist - seeing what’s valuable, even beautiful, even in the shadow realms.
You'll love the Japanese philosophy of Wabi Sabi 🤗
Something 😕 is missing or lost, that's why I connect so closely to my creator. He completes me, and also my devotion to God keeps me from acting on most of my spontaneous whims, which tend to be disastrous for me at times and not always good for others.
I'll keep watching the video, only 8 minutes in, very interesting concepts about different personalities.
I am taking SO MANY NOTES! Loving It Man, It's helping me a lot. Thanks for the content
This was fantastic. By far the best breakdown of type 4 that I've seen. Thank you for your passionate and thoughtful approach to this!
As an enneagramm 4w5 self-preservation I learned to main things out of listening to your videos.
First: receiving help and not defy, because I see others wanted to change me, just pointing out non-benefical behaviours;).
And at second: That the desire to suck in as much information to solve ones problem from the outside is beneficial, but at one point to say: know I understood it, it's time to embody this knowledge. I thinks that's the point where self-preserving types can bloom and be helpful to others:). Finally clarity comes without trying by accepting oneself:).
Greetings from Germany
Yeah I feel like I have never had enough information for self development
I am vegan was diagnosed with leukemia 2 years ago given 6 months to live. Had no interest in chemo am doing fine working with a shaman and hypnotherapist. So my 5 wing is alive and well 😉 you are so helpful! Thank you Dr Tom! 👍🏽
Sorry to hear about your leukemia, hope you are well!
I just wanted to share this with you, just in case it will be of help for you. Water fasting seems to be effective for defeating cancer. From what I've learned, cancer cells need nutrition (they especially like carbohydrates), and when you fast you take away that nutrition, and cancer cells are supposedly very bad at surviving in this fasted environment. And even more promising is fasting combined with chemotherapy. Fasting increases the effectiveness of the chemo (it makes the chemo kill more cancer), and it also makes the side effects from chemo less bad. But fasting alone seems to be somewhat effective against cancer.
It is talked about in this video: th-cam.com/video/SybTjP5LLhs/w-d-xo.html.
(Note: This video talks about a study done on mice, but I think there was also some science done about it on humans, but I don't recall where I saw it.)
Here, the alternative healing methods (fasting) is working wonderfully symbiotically with the methods of western medicine (chemo). If I ever get cancer, this is what I'll do. I'm water fasting right now to aid the healing of a foot injury; day 5 right now. It's easier than you might think. :)
I admire you and your insight on the Enneagram. As a certified facilitator on the Enneagram I have probably researched most of the so called, “gurus”, and you are providing tremendous insight as well receiving insight.
Now here comes some insight:), Prince did not use a symbol for his name or change his name to, “The Artist Formerly Known as Prince” to just be different. It happened after a dispute with his record company which he wanted to leave and they more or less said they owned his music they produced with his Prince name. In a brilliant Type 4 move, he said you can take the name, I’m still the Artist and people will know who I am, so keep the name. He was Right.
Thanks for that info...I was not aware of that fact. Glad you found my channel.
24:32 4w3 and 4w5 starts here
Thank you so much, life saviour
@@_linlin_ You're welcome!
OMG, I'm so thankful for you! Thank you for sharing in depth especially from a Christian perspective. I really appreciate you!
oddness is my address :-) Great line! I am a 4W5 and appreciate the invitation to move towards the 3 wing - yes... super helpful. Great video. Thanks.
The best source for understanding enneagrams I know. Thank you so much !
Holy snot talking about type 4 so in-depth really hit the nail on the head. I've worked out some of the issues I have as a Type 4, but man, I didn't realize that my own wailing gets in the way of me being happy. Also talking about 4w5 showed me even more about myself, considering that I basically fit that type so much. I really have to thank you cause this really made me think.
I had to pause the video. I'm less than 3 minutes in and sobbing. Ok, carry on.
Edit: As I continue watching, so many of these traits I identify with at different times in my life and can see how I had a choice to live in it or to rise above it. I'm thankful we are not stuck where we are, but we can grow. Growth doesn't change who we are, but it makes us better versions of ourselves. I'm still a 4w5, but I can use my empathy to help others going through hard times rather than just stewing in my own misery.
most of enneagram videos make me feel overwhelmed and exhausted
but now i'm relax and enjoy
thank you and i like your amazing contents
Your videos have helped me so much on my journey to understand myself and others. Thank you for offering your talents to help people!
Blessings.
Interesting. I’m applying this to things like trauma response, ptsd, cptsd, and post traumatic growth. It sounds, from the video, that there are personality types that are more susceptible to things like ptsd/cptsd than other personality types. It makes me wonder what personality types are more likely to have post traumatic growth, thriving post trauma. I’m also thinking that 4 may see a stronger than others after being impacted by ACES.
For example, a teen with a 4 personality type with an ACES of 5 may be way more impacted than a person with the same ACES and a different personality type. Maybe a soldier or a domestic violence survivor with a 4 personality type is more likely to develop intense ptsd than someone else. Interesting
As a 4w5, THANK YOU, you just helped me to understand myself so much better and why I experience and go through the things I do at this stage of my life.
I knew it instinctively but you helped me to Intelectualize it and be able to put in into words.
Just in middle of a break up after 2y living with a type 8(w7?) which I love and respect very much but can't deal with and she probably feels the same way.
You are absolutely right about the need to balance my 4w5 with w3 to get some real practical action in life.
I feel so seen as a 4w5.
This. Is. So. Me!!! I don't even know when it happened lol. I think before the past few years, I was likely more 4w3... had more concern about doing it better than.... and appearance.
BUT NOW... After having about 7 years of seclusion/ working from home / online entrepreneurship...I think my 5 wing got more developed. This is so useful. Thank you for taking time to create this. I have some "guidance" on how to move forward and pull some of that 3-ness off the shelf to reach some of the goals I have.
I'm a 4w5, everything you said was 100% accurate for me
As a good 4 person, i must say, that the most enjoyable parts of this videos are the one he says "this is so profound, this is so interesting" hahahaha because it actually flatters me in a very weird way. It's :Hey you're broken, but you're very interesting broken person.
i always tell myself i am 4w5 but wings 3 is showing itself too. Now i struggle to choose my wing. By the way I dont think something is wrong with me and i LOVE myself for being a 4 and you guys should too. I think thinking like this is special and worthy to live, you can see the world so much colorful. I admire myself for my brain and if people can see and think like me i think they would admire too.
Whoa. I grew up on the Enneagram, and this was the most insightful talk I've heard in years. Thank you!
I always test as both depending on my mood, it's been like 60% 4w3 & 40% 4w5. It's so conflicting, I relate to so many things you said about both of them. 😩
My father was completely emotionally absent and struggled to care about anything, and even though he left when i was 5 it still had this unspoken impact. Now all the love and affection my mother shows me i resent it. I cant bring myself to let anyone know how much they actually mean to me unless i know they dont care. For the longest time i thought something was wrong with me because i physically couldnt show affection to my family. Thank you for giving me clarity.
You are so thorough and it has truly helped me feel more comfortable in my skin. I'm a 4w5 and this whole video truly resonated with me. To see the connection back to the garden has truly opened my eyes to understanding the enneagram and being a 4 better. Thank you! Blessings!
Thank you for that message at the end. as a 4w5 I learned so much and very much value this video
I’m still having trouble figuring out with wing is my dominant one. Both wings reflect my mindset.
I’m a 4x3 and it’s a bit difficult to admit that to myself because I’d much rather be a 4x5. I’m not sure why. But I’m very very 4x3 even though I identify more with 4x5 that’s just me not admitting it to myself...
If that makes sense.
Same! I feel like I swing - or, keeping this metaphor going, fly - between both. But as he says, it's healthy to develop both.
@@girafpanda8886 oh... maybe i am a 4w3 but just dont want to accept it, what you just said hit me hard lmao 😭😭
Yayyy! I've been waiting for this one ! 🙂 your information is so helpful to learn about myself and live my best life. I am married to a 8. It works!!!
Awesome.
Tom: I've just discovered your channel. This video plus the Christian perspective you bring too, has been immeasureably meaningful. It's taken me decades to realize I'm a 4w5 needing to "borrow" from the w3. I truly need to "camp" awhile and ponder the depth here.
I grant myself pockets of time to dwell, to cry, to purge...and then I pick myself up and move forward. I have an "eff you" type mentality that drives me to push through.
Also, not sure about the other 4s here but I exercise like it's my job, helps with the ruminating and increases positivity.
4w5 --- we're not nearly as douchey as you seem to think about certain things. We like what we like. It doesn't have to be the polar opposite of the mainstream, we aren't hipster; it just has to be something we truly connect with/enjoy.
I thought I was a 1 for several years, then I thought I was a 2 for a couple of years. I now realize I’m a 4w5. I think I had to heal a lot of trauma before I could see through the trauma traits of perfectionism and people pleasing before seeing my true nature. I am very eccentric and zeroed in on suffering. I shifted into Tibetan Buddhism for that reason, because of all of their focus on suffering. Also because I love learning the Tibetan language and the artistic nature of Tibetan Buddhism. I’m also zeroed in on the suffering of Christ and how he is closest to us in our suffering when we are ready to ask for help. People regularly come to my office at work to discuss the things that would bring them shame to discuss on the trading floor. My art is all about healing from trauma and it incorporates different aspects of my spiritual practice. I recognize that I can come off as a little eccentric to people and that I probably like that because it protects me from being abandoned. I love listening to you. 🙏🏻
I'm a 4w3 and through the video i just felt SO described that kinda scared me
Same girl. The first time I heard about the ennegram and found out I was a 4w3, I was blown away that anyone could understand me that deeply
4w5 here married to a 7w8 for 18 years. It’s been a long difficult journey with many ups and downs as we learn how to better love, respect & relate to one another.
4w3 my bio father and his family refused to acknowledge me, my mother was abusive, and my husband left me for a co worker and I have spent SO much time in therapy b/c I internalize all that as me missing something that makes a person lovable and I’m constantly trying to improve myself and find that thing. I also know it’s completely illogical but that doesn’t stop me from feeling that way 🤷♀️
Just the fact that you understand this about yourself is awesome. Keep up the good work. Blessings.