@17:33 I meant we did not see so much fragmentation with the 10mm, speaking specifically about the fabric/MDF shot performing better than the .45 ACP fabric/MDF shot, as the .45 ACP fragmented more than the 10mm in fabric/MDF and also under-penetrated. Obviously the plain gel 10mm shot massively fragmented.
Great video. I actually like these high energy rounds that "over expand" and under penetrate. Imagine all that energy instantaneously being dumped into a target.
My agency tested various 45 ACP bullet weights and arrived at the same conclusion - 230 grain JHP is the way to go if you want expansion and penetration.
@@exothermal.sprocket how do you figure? JMB wanted a 41 cal, 200gr, 900 fps cartridge. The army required 45 cal 230gr to match the Schofield ballistics
The Silvertip is older bullet technology but it seems do ok. I know people talk about penetration and it is important but just know that is that 45 acp went into and expanded like that no matter if penetration was less than it supposed to be, you are going down. Even if it never hit a major organ, there going to be extreme pain and alot of blood loss. Don't discount the lethality of this round based on less than adequate penetration.
JMB thought his .38 acp (initially with modern .38 Super +P ballistics) was the way to go for the Army. They wanted a .45. He gave them one with 200 gr bullets. They wanted heavier bullets, so he gave them the 230 gr. JMB was on-point with the 950 fps 200 gr bullets.
I love the idea of more 45 tests! I'm interested in golden saber, the cheap stuff like Sierra, and even the polymer external hollow points from Norma and others. If you can't tell, I love 45 but I'm broke lol. Great vid and cheers
@@PassivePortfolios agreed, there are better rounds for each. They don't have to be the same brand. My 45acp choice is the HST and 10mm Critical Defense. I have found their accuracy and reliability in my guns to be extremely consistent and loads you can bet you life on. The results for each load are at the top of real world expectations. I feel extremely well armed with either caliber. I have a 1911 10mm and of course the 45acp as well. It would be nice to see a side by side comparison in Glocks or 1911s. I would like to see some of the more popular loads. To me the Silvertip was awesome in it's day and not bad today as we saw but there might be more performance with newer loads
TBH, 45 ACP in the standard ball (FMJ) loading would be better than either one tested. That would achieve more optimal penetration depth, especially in terms of a cross-torso shot, ignore heavy clothing (plugging), there isn't the problem of jacket separation or fragmentation, and very, very likely still not pose a danger on the exit side. It also will perform better if required to go through standard stick framing, sheetrock, car door, etc.. All the while, with regards to tissue disruption, a 45 ACP ball load, though non-expanding, is still equivalent to a 10mm Auto HP at 1.13× expansion, in terms of terminal bore size; and because of the heavier bullet mass, combined with the shape and lower muzzle velocity, can tumble when the velocity sufficiently bleeds off in the torso, whereupon the bullet will be even more disruptive than a 10mm Auto HP at a great expansion size.
@ I use and have tested Critical Defense in 9 mm and 380. It's the best JHP 380 round that I have tested in the meat target, similar to what Paul Harrell used. My former agency issues it to its detectives.
Hi gun Sam. Awsome video. You really put some good information out. I have never fired 10 mm. But i feel its very good. Especially in a revolver. I have shot alot of 45acp from my colt 1911. And i know i can trust it. . Its very interesting watch you shoot the different calibers. God bless and good shooting as you always do.😊
@GunSam I have found Federal HST 230gr +p, Gold Dot 185gr & +p, Gold Dot 230gr +p, Underwood 185gr & 230gr +p with Unicore bullet to be pretty good in the G30. One of the most accurate rounds was the Underwood 45 acp Hardcast 255gr +p. Thanks for the tests. Keep'em coming! Edit: The 185gr Golden Saber had an excellent reputation at one time. My only pet peave with it was core separation. If memory serves it was with a law enforcement group like the FBI.
0.002" cylinder gap? Dang! That's actually tight enough that significant fouling, like from lead bullets, could cause cylinder bind. Nice too see a 10mm Auto load actually achieve advertised velocity. So many 10mm Auto loads are simply weak. Sadly, the bullet performance of the Silvertip 10mm was poor in plain gel. Explosive expansion, but not really enough penetration. With your real-world test, the 10mm was better. Interesting test and it should be remembered that these Silvertip pistol bullets were designed when pistol bullet expansion was difficult to achieve. Perhaps Winchester simply went a little too far in creating reliable expansion.
Common in S&W's. Just one reason why I don't like them. They do foul & stop turning pretty quickly if you aren't shooting fmj. Try too hard and you'll damage the lockwork. Rugers will keep shooting.
Great video Sam! Proposal.. 9mm +p+ from Grizzly, anything from grizzly in any caliber. 1350ish full size barrel for 9mm +p+ 10mm 200grain going 1250ish in full size barrel length.
The 45acp is more consistent with heavy bullet. This is because of a large case that is hard to fill to capacity with powders that create the appropriate burn rate for optimum velocities. Other reasons as well. Good testing 👌
You can actually use some slower powders in 45 auto to get really impressive performance. It’ll definitely cost you in the recoil department though. There’s standard pressure load data for Ramshot Enforcer that puts 230gr bullets faster than these 185s tested here
.45 ACP y .357 Magnum !!! Eso es defensa contundente ❤ El 10 m.m. era una creación de Jeff Cooper que de tanto romper pistolas terminó siendo un .40 SW +P... Gracias...
Good video I shoot a lot of 45 so I always choose it first, but the 10mm is a bit more powerful even though it is smaller. Goes back to the old .357 magnum auto comparison, where the 10mm is more comparable.
Hey Sam quick question have you had your cylinder release qnd frame screw come loose on you in your Taurus 605 or 856 due to shooting overtime it happened to my 856 some loctite fixed the issue. It seems to be a common issue with the more modern Taurus revolvers. Was wondering if you had anything like this happen to yours?
I really wouldn't know. I clean my revolvers before and after every test or every time I shoot and I make sure all the screws are tight in that process of basic maintenance. I have had my Taurus 605 cylinder/crane screw break from over-tightening, which I have never seen with a S&W revolver, my solution was Brownelle's and a S&W brand J-frame screw, comes with the dried Loctite on it, and it fits the small frame Taurus's just the same, never had an issue after that.
Hey, wish I had the means to send you the ammo but how about some time doing a 10mm vs 45 hard cast dangerous game load using your dangerous game set up??? Thanks and keep up the awesome work!!!
It looks like you shot an ax head , I have never seen that in non-segmented " Normal Rounds " for the most part . Never even close with any other Silver Tip ??
I also got some Sig V-Crown 185 gr and Rem Golden Saber +P 185 gr. At some point I need to test that .38 Special from 3" barrel. I did film a test I am releasing later with Buffalo Bore .32 ACP and .32 Long hard cast and shot some 22 ga steel with those as well as regular LRN .32 Long from 20 yards as a preliminary test of the steel sheets I got for barrier testing of the lead HP's VS Gold Dots, the .32 Long bounced off but the .32 ACP FMJ went right through, so I think i'm safe to shoot from normal distance of 3 feet with .38 Special. Should be fun when I film it.
Either are good, but the 10mm in real world at 15 inches could overpenetrate if hit in front on a thinner target. The 45 dumped all the energy and wouldn't overpenetrate if on a thinner target. It depends on the stance of the target. If they are shooting the target on the side, the 10mm would be better than the 45acp. I would really feel comfortable with either load.
Look up the ballistics of 10mm Magnum on the Double Tap site. You might consider having your 610 cylinder rechambered for it, that way you can shoot 40, 10mm Auto, and 10mm Mag. It will make the 610 just as powerful as a 41 Mag with a lot more versatility.
In my opinion America's going to settle with 380 9 mm and 10 mm. The 380 like the original LCP is an actual lightweight pocket pistol. 9 mm for everything in between 10 mm carry to the woods, covers everything.
Sounds about right. I have assumed and mentioned before that I think I get about G20 velocity despite being more bullet travel in the 610. The G41 5.3" conversion gave more. I think it's right to say that the 610 probably is in length, like a 5.4" semi auto, but gives the velocity of a 5.0" semi auto due to cylinder gap.
BTW, I have a bad memory when it comes to names and dates lol, but wasn't it you that sent me the box of 10mm Silvertip from like 1992 or something? I think I still have a half a box of them left.
12" in Organic Ballistics Gelatin and again the data gathered from a single round......don't you take the average of 5 rounds to determine velocity AVERAGE ?
200 to 210 is the perfect for 45 ACP gold dot make some federal hydro shock deep. 185's always have no stem to the mushroom they're just like a coin or a drag car parachute that just don't go deep enough Golden sabers may do okay in 185s. The sectional density ain't there.
Lighter weight 45acp bullets lose sectional density & generally don't penetrate as well where the 175 to 200 grain 10mm bullets will do better. You keep making the 10mm look better to me but good ammo selection makes either caliber do fine. This test also reinforces the fact that Silvertip expands too easily to be trusted.
Interesting results. Ive never gotten good results from silverfish in any handgun,but up it to a rifle and it's a different beast!( I kno that's obvious, but u kno wut I mean lol😅) Were im at I dint have much use for 10mm ,but I do occasionally carry 45acp. Usually with just plain old fmj. Thanks for another great vid!😊🥶🥶🫡☮️🤘
Old people have issues with more muzzle jump like what .45 ACP can give, they prefer .38 Special wadcutters. Unless you're like 22 and calling a 45 year old like me "old", well then you might be right.
I have some Silvertip in 40s&w 155 grain. They are the hottest rounds I own in 40 and it's apparent when you shoot them. >1200fps at 155 grains hits hard. They are not as reliable in terms of expansion as premium hollow points based on the vids I've seen. I've caught a couple in water jugs with no barrier, from both a 4" and a 3.5" barrel, and they expand like crazy and get caught in the second jug.
@17:33 I meant we did not see so much fragmentation with the 10mm, speaking specifically about the fabric/MDF shot performing better than the .45 ACP fabric/MDF shot, as the .45 ACP fragmented more than the 10mm in fabric/MDF and also under-penetrated. Obviously the plain gel 10mm shot massively fragmented.
Both are good !
Yea I love all caliber’s
This demonstrates how classic 185gr .45 ACP bullets performed. They tended to expand well but go shallow.
The .45 ACP did well despite modest velocity. Thanks for sharing!🥶👍🙏
Great video. I actually like these high energy rounds that "over expand" and under penetrate. Imagine all that energy instantaneously being dumped into a target.
11. I’m getting cold watching and thinking about it ! As usual, excellent video Sam. Thanks
it seems like a 45 likes the 230 grain bullets.
My agency tested various 45 ACP bullet weights and arrived at the same conclusion - 230 grain JHP is the way to go if you want expansion and penetration.
Sorta like John Moses Browning had things figured out in 1904.
@@exothermal.sprocket how do you figure? JMB wanted a 41 cal, 200gr, 900 fps cartridge. The army required 45 cal 230gr to match the Schofield ballistics
Love these comparison videos. Keep it up!
Glad you're exploring the 45 ACP more.
The Silvertip is older bullet technology but it seems do ok. I know people talk about penetration and it is important but just know that is that 45 acp went into and expanded like that no matter if penetration was less than it supposed to be, you are going down. Even if it never hit a major organ, there going to be extreme pain and alot of blood loss. Don't discount the lethality of this round based on less than adequate penetration.
185 or 200 grain are the superior bullet weights for self-defense in 45acp. Thank you for your service to the 2A community.
JMB thought his .38 acp (initially with modern .38 Super +P ballistics) was the way to go for the Army. They wanted a .45. He gave them one with 200 gr bullets. They wanted heavier bullets, so he gave them the 230 gr.
JMB was on-point with the 950 fps 200 gr bullets.
Awesome video Sam i just Noticed you have the same heavy Parka as i do and the same color i love how warm it is love all the pockets too
Thanks. It's a Levis parka, it's average warmth. I wear layers under it.
I love the idea of more 45 tests! I'm interested in golden saber, the cheap stuff like Sierra, and even the polymer external hollow points from Norma and others. If you can't tell, I love 45 but I'm broke lol. Great vid and cheers
Excellent video Sam! I carry the .45 silver tips, always wondered how they would perform. Thank you 👍
Old design or current?
@ I carry the current silver tips.
Rather inconsistent results with both of these rounds. There are better options out there. Thanks for another excellent test.
@@PassivePortfolios agreed, there are better rounds for each. They don't have to be the same brand. My 45acp choice is the HST and 10mm Critical Defense. I have found their accuracy and reliability in my guns to be extremely consistent and loads you can bet you life on. The results for each load are at the top of real world expectations. I feel extremely well armed with either caliber. I have a 1911 10mm and of course the 45acp as well. It would be nice to see a side by side comparison in Glocks or 1911s. I would like to see some of the more popular loads. To me the Silvertip was awesome in it's day and not bad today as we saw but there might be more performance with newer loads
TBH, 45 ACP in the standard ball (FMJ) loading would be better than either one tested.
That would achieve more optimal penetration depth, especially in terms of a cross-torso shot, ignore heavy clothing (plugging), there isn't the problem of jacket separation or fragmentation, and very, very likely still not pose a danger on the exit side. It also will perform better if required to go through standard stick framing, sheetrock, car door, etc..
All the while, with regards to tissue disruption, a 45 ACP ball load, though non-expanding, is still equivalent to a 10mm Auto HP at 1.13× expansion, in terms of terminal bore size; and because of the heavier bullet mass, combined with the shape and lower muzzle velocity, can tumble when the velocity sufficiently bleeds off in the torso, whereupon the bullet will be even more disruptive than a 10mm Auto HP at a great expansion size.
No matter what you carry, the Federal HST performs.
@@LibertysetsquareJackfmj is almost always the way to go if you are accurate penetration potentially can beat everything
@ I use and have tested Critical Defense in 9 mm and 380. It's the best JHP 380 round that I have tested in the meat target, similar to what Paul Harrell used. My former agency issues it to its detectives.
Tough out there!! Great test! Love 45ACP, 40S&W, 10MM, as well--THANK YOU!
Thanks for the video and knowledge
I like both cartridges, fun test
Hi gun Sam. Awsome video. You really put some good information out. I have never fired 10 mm. But i feel its very good. Especially in a revolver. I have shot alot of 45acp from my colt 1911. And i know i can trust it. . Its very interesting watch you shoot the different calibers. God bless and good shooting as you always do.😊
GS. Another good video and ammo comparison. Again, thanks for sharing and take care.
When I see the Fiber Board sent in Two & into orbit , I think that is a kind of " Knock Down Meter " ... just say-in !
That might do more than a typical handgun bullet which drills a neat hole into the sternum.
Thanks Sam! Always great info.
Great test, both caliber are in my carry rotation with that Rd. I might consider switching the 45 ACP to something else. Thanks for sharing.💯🙏👍
Interesting to see that 45 acp 185gr in a G30 or similar.
Excellent testing.
Keep'em coming!
At some point i'm getting the Shield 45 which I think is something like 3.3" barrel. I used to have the Glock 36, slimline 30 basically and I miss it.
@GunSam
I have found Federal HST 230gr +p, Gold Dot 185gr & +p, Gold Dot 230gr +p, Underwood 185gr & 230gr +p with Unicore bullet to be pretty good in the G30. One of the most accurate rounds was the Underwood 45 acp Hardcast 255gr +p.
Thanks for the tests.
Keep'em coming!
Edit: The 185gr Golden Saber had an excellent reputation at one time. My only pet peave with it was core separation. If memory serves it was with a law enforcement group like the FBI.
Thanks for the test. I carry a Sig P220 in 45 ACP 4.4 inch barrel. I like the 185 grain.
0.002" cylinder gap? Dang! That's actually tight enough that significant fouling, like from lead bullets, could cause cylinder bind.
Nice too see a 10mm Auto load actually achieve advertised velocity. So many 10mm Auto loads are simply weak. Sadly, the bullet performance of the Silvertip 10mm was poor in plain gel. Explosive expansion, but not really enough penetration. With your real-world test, the 10mm was better. Interesting test and it should be remembered that these Silvertip pistol bullets were designed when pistol bullet expansion was difficult to achieve. Perhaps Winchester simply went a little too far in creating reliable expansion.
Common in S&W's. Just one reason why I don't like them. They do foul & stop turning pretty quickly if you aren't shooting fmj. Try too hard and you'll damage the lockwork.
Rugers will keep shooting.
Sivertip is one of those lines that makes you ask yourself "why is this still around?"
It changed. This is the current "2nd gen".
I think I'd prefer the Winchester Ranger LE. Basically a remake of the former Black Talon.
Gun Sam. I always stay with 230 grn in my colt. Ive never had a failure.. God bless
Great Video 😁☕👍
Thank you
Thanks again!
In the ‘90s I met a Uniformed Officer with the Secret Service that carried 10mm silver tips.
Great video Sam! Proposal.. 9mm +p+ from Grizzly, anything from grizzly in any caliber. 1350ish full size barrel for 9mm +p+ 10mm 200grain going 1250ish in full size barrel length.
The 45acp is more consistent with heavy bullet. This is because of a large case that is hard to fill to capacity with powders that create the appropriate burn rate for optimum velocities. Other reasons as well. Good testing 👌
You can actually use some slower powders in 45 auto to get really impressive performance. It’ll definitely cost you in the recoil department though. There’s standard pressure load data for Ramshot Enforcer that puts 230gr bullets faster than these 185s tested here
.45 ACP y .357 Magnum !!!
Eso es defensa contundente ❤
El 10 m.m. era una creación de Jeff Cooper que de tanto romper pistolas terminó siendo un .40 SW +P...
Gracias...
Still breaking Glocks with it.
Good video I shoot a lot of 45 so I always choose it first, but the 10mm is a bit more powerful even though it is smaller.
Goes back to the old .357 magnum auto comparison, where the 10mm is more comparable.
Great video, Sam. Odd, the way that 10mm round split in two pieces. Thanks, Sam.👍🫡🇺🇲
Hey Sam quick question have you had your cylinder release qnd frame screw come loose on you in your Taurus 605 or 856 due to shooting overtime it happened to my 856 some loctite fixed the issue. It seems to be a common issue with the more modern Taurus revolvers. Was wondering if you had anything like this happen to yours?
I really wouldn't know. I clean my revolvers before and after every test or every time I shoot and I make sure all the screws are tight in that process of basic maintenance. I have had my Taurus 605 cylinder/crane screw break from over-tightening, which I have never seen with a S&W revolver, my solution was Brownelle's and a S&W brand J-frame screw, comes with the dried Loctite on it, and it fits the small frame Taurus's just the same, never had an issue after that.
Did not expect that 10mm to fragment here, it's not a rip or liberty round
I have the same issue with my Performance Center 45 ACP 625 with moon clips!
Hey, wish I had the means to send you the ammo but how about some time doing a 10mm vs 45 hard cast dangerous game load using your dangerous game set up??? Thanks and keep up the awesome work!!!
It looks like you shot an ax head , I have never seen that in non-segmented " Normal Rounds " for the most part . Never even close with any other Silver Tip ??
I don't think I have seen it before
Would this be a good choice for use in the governor?
It's gonna move at like 200 FPS slower from that revolver.
I've had 2 out of 3 185s I've tested do ok
I also got some Sig V-Crown 185 gr and Rem Golden Saber +P 185 gr. At some point I need to test that .38 Special from 3" barrel. I did film a test I am releasing later with Buffalo Bore .32 ACP and .32 Long hard cast and shot some 22 ga steel with those as well as regular LRN .32 Long from 20 yards as a preliminary test of the steel sheets I got for barrier testing of the lead HP's VS Gold Dots, the .32 Long bounced off but the .32 ACP FMJ went right through, so I think i'm safe to shoot from normal distance of 3 feet with .38 Special. Should be fun when I film it.
@GunSam I saw the short...jacketed will likely go through, lower power lead bounce just make sure eye pro
👍👍
Either are good, but the 10mm in real world at 15 inches could overpenetrate if hit in front on a thinner target. The 45 dumped all the energy and wouldn't overpenetrate if on a thinner target. It depends on the stance of the target. If they are shooting the target on the side, the 10mm would be better than the 45acp. I would really feel comfortable with either load.
Look up the ballistics of 10mm Magnum on the Double Tap site. You might consider having your 610 cylinder rechambered for it, that way you can shoot 40, 10mm Auto, and 10mm Mag.
It will make the 610 just as powerful as a 41 Mag with a lot more versatility.
I'm not really impressed with either.... I'm a Fed HST fan.
Barnes TAC-XPD in 185 grain please!
In my opinion America's going to settle with 380 9 mm and 10 mm. The 380 like the original LCP is an actual lightweight pocket pistol. 9 mm for everything in between 10 mm carry to the woods, covers everything.
When pitting them against each other 10mm beats the 45 out. But it looks like if you have a 45 or 10 mm winchester silver tip is a Good choice for you
I got 1175 ft/sec from a G20 & old Silver Tips
Sounds about right. I have assumed and mentioned before that I think I get about G20 velocity despite being more bullet travel in the 610. The G41 5.3" conversion gave more. I think it's right to say that the 610 probably is in length, like a 5.4" semi auto, but gives the velocity of a 5.0" semi auto due to cylinder gap.
BTW, I have a bad memory when it comes to names and dates lol, but wasn't it you that sent me the box of 10mm Silvertip from like 1992 or something? I think I still have a half a box of them left.
@ Yep , the sticker was under Ten bkx , for 20 . That was High buk stuff !
12" in Organic Ballistics Gelatin and again the data gathered from a single round......don't you take the average of 5 rounds to determine velocity AVERAGE ?
200 to 210 is the perfect for 45 ACP gold dot make some federal hydro shock deep.
185's always have no stem to the mushroom they're just like a coin or a drag car parachute that just don't go deep enough Golden sabers may do okay in 185s. The sectional density ain't there.
Lighter weight 45acp bullets lose sectional density & generally don't penetrate as well where the 175 to 200 grain 10mm bullets will do better. You keep making the 10mm look better to me but good ammo selection makes either caliber do fine.
This test also reinforces the fact that Silvertip expands too easily to be trusted.
I think your technical details are very good, NASA lab’s are over rated.
Comment censored by the tube 🤬
Interesting. But both are actually pretty decent overall. Thanks
Well, not buying those.
Both loads are trash
I bet you wouldn't even feel getting hit by one, would you?
@Tom-cp6yj I don't want get hit by a bb gun dickface jr member but I still wouldn't purposely go spend money on this old technology of ammo
Interesting results.
Ive never gotten good results from silverfish in any handgun,but up it to a rifle and it's a different beast!( I kno that's obvious, but u kno wut I mean lol😅)
Were im at I dint have much use for 10mm ,but I do occasionally carry 45acp.
Usually with just plain old fmj.
Thanks for another great vid!😊🥶🥶🫡☮️🤘
@GunSam have you even done any tests on .45 colt ammo?
I’d be interested to see how much damage a cowboy load would do versus hotter .45 colt ammo.
Old people use 45
/// lol 😂 for the most part that's what I see on my end facts 💯
Well they do say you learn something everyday, don’t knock old people. Wisdom comes with age usually
Old people have issues with more muzzle jump like what .45 ACP can give, they prefer .38 Special wadcutters. Unless you're like 22 and calling a 45 year old like me "old", well then you might be right.
Because they know the 45 ACP still works today just as it did when John Browning invented it.
I have some Silvertip in 40s&w 155 grain. They are the hottest rounds I own in 40 and it's apparent when you shoot them. >1200fps at 155 grains hits hard. They are not as reliable in terms of expansion as premium hollow points based on the vids I've seen. I've caught a couple in water jugs with no barrier, from both a 4" and a 3.5" barrel, and they expand like crazy and get caught in the second jug.