The Primary Mission of the University Should Be Social Justice | Berkeley
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ค. 2024
- This interesting conversation includes four participants who are current or former students of University of California Berkeley. The claim they considered: The primary mission of the university should be Social Justice.
Unsurprisingly, the meaning of “Social Justice” is touched upon, but the necessity of a definition is bypassed by some who disagree with the claim. Instead, they argue that the primary task of a university is to prepare students to think critically rather than promote particular issues.
At the same time, Social Justice, conceived as some form of equal access, is considered fundamental in truth-seeking by at least one participant who disagrees with the claim.
After the claim receives criticism from some participants, Peter reveals that it’s based on words from the president of Portland State University.
Defining the primary mission of the university is vital; please share what you believe the primary mission ought to be.
This conversation was recorded at UC Berkeley on April 19, 2022.
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Connect with Dr. Peter Boghossian: linktr.ee/peterboghossian
Book: "How to Have Impossible Conversations: A Very Practical Guide" by Peter Boghossian & James Lindsay
www.amazon.com/dp/0738285323/...
This work is only possible because of your generous support. The best way to support is by sharing with your friends or becoming a paid subscriber on Substack: boghossian.substack.com
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Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:25 Agree w/claim
2:28 Slightly Disagree w/claim
6:13 Strongly disagree w/claim
8:30 Should the primary mission of the university be truth?
13:03 Could you be persuaded to move to a different line?
14:08 Discussing data vs anecdotes
16:37 Further discussion and Wrap Up
#peterboghossian #berkeley #socialjustice
“At the end of the day, your model isn’t running on anecdotes, it’s running on data”
Literally smashed all woke discourse in a single phrase
I'd like it even more without the "At the end of the day" bit -- because at the end of the day, it's night, for fuck's sake.
Yeah except he had no balls and said it in the most cuckish way possible
@@snicky58 OH BOY!! dad joke!!! nice
Might you say, though, that anecdotal 'evidence' is part of what helps to strengthen the model? If the model's purpose is to represent reality, then anecdotes are part of that reality, and may suggest other variables to collect data for in order that the model works more effectively and eliminates anecdotal evidence (to the contrary), which is what you would expect for a model that is truly representative.
At the end of the day, your data is just compiled anecdotes.
Berkley sweatshirt guy perfectly shows how insidious this new social justice/woke ideology is. He is literally arguing that he disagrees with the proposed statement. He says universities should not have a primary mission. He should be standing on a disagree line, but he is so paralyzed by the implications of disagreeing with even the presence of the words "social justice" that he can't even understand his own argument.
They all are brought to arguing with the semantics of the question, 99% of the time. It's aggravating.
He's actually very reasonable. I think the problem here is that you are so conditioned by the alt-right to reflexively see anyone you disagree with as a "SJW", that you can't think straight anymore.
@@soulscanner66 You can't just say "no you" and call that an argument. Look, in the first few minutes of the conversation it's clearly established that he doesn't even know what the word "primary" means. After that, his entire argument is, strictly speaking, logically contradictory.
Here is a direct reframing of what he says in a non-political context:
Statement: Ice cream shops should only sell chocolate ice cream.
Sweatshirt Guy: I agree, I don't think ice cream shops should sell only one type ice cream.
He literally says this line: "Universities should have more than one primary purpose"
He doesn't understand the words he's using or the concept of the exercise.
@@themanicmarauder Great comparison!
Yep....then he says at the end "people aren't like, thinking this deeply about the words they're using"...dude...haha!
"you're at university, you're here to solve the big issues". No man, you're 20, you're there to learn, not solve the big issues.
Hubris with a degree. That's pretty much the biggest problem in our society today.
100%
No no no, he was right. Learning to solve the big issues... that way he can learn how pointless it all is by the time he hits middle age
/S
Not only that, but who would even be qualified to teach you HOW to solve the big issues, and where did they get the qualifications, and who was capable of determining that they were qualified enough to do so?
@@Marthyboy88 What you've said here makes perfect logical sense but what if you're not operating with logic. What If you've been led to believe that there are big problems that exist that you couldn't see before and you're lucky to have these professors telling you exactly what they are, where they are, why they exist and how to "solve" them.
You’re not wrong but you’re not right either. The primary goal behind colleges is Research, make a profit, and teach students.
So when they say they are there to solve issues, it is somewhat true because the primary goal of universities is the research they are conducting to inherently make a profit and make a better world. All while teaching students.
While maybe not the primary goal, a secondary goal of universities should definitely be to reduce the amount the word 'like' is used in debate.
“Like” I was thinking the same thing, 🤣
He needs to go back to class and extend his vocabulary.
@@leticiagomez-young8836 you can tell he misses the old kanye
@@illegalbilly On that side note, I think it's funny how these 'social justice' people love to tout NWA's F Tha Police around, but if they ever heard the lyrics of NWA's Fat Girl they would die of indignation. I myself am of the opinion that the line 'She had more chins than a Chinese phone book' from that track is nothing short of genius.
@@antimonycup7066 Do you enjoy it because you think it gives you permission to hurl racist insults too? Is that what this is really about? You want to go back to those days where you could bully people?
@@soulscanner66 Rather, it exposes a racist attitude towards Asians coming from the African American culture. I do enjoy that, because it goes against the narrative so much it's not allowed to be mentioned, but I mainly enjoy it for its poetic quality and I also don't give a hoot for your histrionics.
"There's an implied justice in a meritocracy." I love that.
I don't even understand what that means.
@@TheNancypoo meritocracy discriminates but only on competence. It puts everyone on an equal standing and judges on the one thing that actually matters.
@@TheNancypoo It means that you deserve what you get. Of course it's not perfect because not everyone starts from the same place.
@@aftermath4096 can it really be a meritocracy if people don't start off at the same place? If we're running a race and i start 50 meters ahead and you start at the starting line, when i inevitably win would you say 'well he won because of merit' or would you see the game as rigged
@@MrThankeesai What about one’s ambition? What if I started 50 meters ahead, I’m a superior /faster runner but I choose not to pursue excellence in the race and the person who started behind me wins? Would you conclude that the “winner” is ‘the fastest runner’, unequivocally?
The point of universities (schools in general) is to teach students HOW to think NOT WHAT to think!
One should be taught HOW to think well before attending university.
Agreed, the point is that the role of educators to teach students how to think not what to think
@@ron88303 you never stop learning to exercise critical thinking, especially critical thinking applied to a definite field of study (how to interpret specific data in a field, different schools of thought in the history of the field etc).
And no, most people don't learn how to think before uni (nor at uni). Critical thinking is rare in people of all ages and nationality. As rare as good logical thinking and good debate skills. University used to make a difference, at least in one's own field of study. Now, humanities openly distrust and discourage critical thinking.
Preach brutha...or sista
You’re right, but that is not what’s happening, kids are being taught to never question the liberal narrative, in fear of being ostracized and labeled as a bigot the vast majority will simply comply.
Never trust a college student that says “like” 4 times in every sentence, they most likely spend more time on Social media than in an actual classroom.
They say that because they aren’t fully rooted in their OWN thoughts. They are looking for reassurance from peers or the teacher.
The ones that are better speakers at least fully believe their statements
The 1994 graduate is abstractly concise and probably an educator himself but wow was I astounded by his way of testifying......brilliant! 🌟
Can you believe that anyone would think or even say out loud that the primary mission of a university should be social justice!!! Oh lord how far we have fallen as a society.
You're not there as a student to solve things, you're there to learn.
how you say "ive never been to Cal" without actually saying "ive never been to Cal". different colleges stand for different things and some are more committed then others. Berkeley was founded on cultural diversity and fueled by hippies, leftists and radical speech. Its literally social justice university, and if you applied to the school and got accepted but didnt know that.. you be about the most clueless valedictorian (or a few of the runners up) ever to graduate highschool. And as far as any of the 'worthless degrees' have value. a diploma stamped with CAL on it is worth its weight in gold over any other school in cali.. when you cant get into stanford (or just too liberal)... you go to school here. amazing campus.
@@ponetastic Berkeley was founded in 1868. It quickly became a serious University. Students went there to learn the skills needed to become actual problem solvers. In the 20th century, far left wing professors became more and more prominent and by the 1960s, the far left had a stranglehold on the University and still does today. The student body "civil rights activist" larping continues to this day. The student body continues to solve very little.
@@TheWolfWon their science programs are on point. and their LA degrees put you in places of power based on the prestige. kids arent going to solve much inside that little campus but the hopes are it bleeds out in non regaurded ways.
learn... to solve problems lol
@@TheWolfWon interesting thing is that many black students say the faculty and students are racists and have always been for the most part
Keep the conversations going, Dr. B. It’s fascinating to witness these Street Epistemology episodes and how you hold non-judgmental space for free thinking.
Thank you. I’m delighted they’re engaging you and helping people to think more deeply about issues.
@@drpeterboghossian I wholeheartedly agree with the above comment. Please, keep this going.
Universities right now are in a place of extreme ideological narrow mindedness. We desperately need a return to open debate and questioning.
It's weird that none of them think the primary mission of the university is to educate them in the fields they are studying.
They all have a very grandiose view of who they are and what they're there for. I think it's a key part of the indoctrination, appeal to their egos (you're here to save the world essentially) and then lead them down whatever path you want.
@@adamimberti6948 The argument, in my way of understanding it, is that creating good truth-seekers supersedes being educated in one's field of study because it is a way towards producing the most quality kinds of being educated in one's field. Does that make sense? You could learn your field, or you could learn how to shape your field and truly be a leader in it.
@@MarkHWillson That's kind of my point. They don't see themselves as truth seekers.
They see themselves as saviours of the world and they see the university as some holy place to prepare them, the enlightened ones to take on their mission.
If we received $1 every time Berkeley guy says "like", we could afford to buy the grounds of the University by the end of this video.
The language gap between current students and older ones is remarkable.
Love these videos, Doc.
If people keep using "like" why not ask them what they mean e.g. I was chased by like a police car. "It wasn't a police car,? What was it then?"
In elementary school, the nuns would make us start over every time we used ‘like’ (improperly) or ‘um’. It was very stressful, and now whenever I hear it, I cringe.
You come to watch a video that promotes critical thinking, yet you come here to be a speech Nazi rather than picking his argument apart. Bravo.
@@insanedar Good old Godwin's Law 🤣
The older generations weren’t afraid of giving their opinion.
The GenZ kids are TERRIFIED of saying the wrong thing. Not going along to not just get along but not be DESTROYED. This is a sad reality. They do not speak without reassurance from peers.
Not only shouldn't the primary mission of a university be social justice, it shouldn't be justice at all. The point of the university is to obtain and exercise demonstrably useful tools for investigating the world, and to use that knowledge to build and do new things, or old things better.
I would exclude departments from universities if they aren't aligned with these things.
yup just a waste of money and effort anything diversity related should be scrapped or alphabet mafia related like gender studies how can you spend 4 years talking about the fact there are 2 genders end of story
I disagree.
Universities are not just for making you a better inventor or lawyer, they also should strive to make you a better person who can think and evaluate your own beliefs.
@@JM-mh1pp Universities ARE there to make you a better inventor, lawyer, doctor, etc, NOT for social justice, not to solve your personal problems.
@@77dris again I disagree with you.
It is important for humans to not just be robots who train themselves to perform tasks better, it is very empty and sad life.
It is important to grow as a person, challenge yourself, ask questions, engage in disscusions and grow your horizons.
@@JM-mh1pp Law degrees should always be about justice, but look how great lawyers turn out? So if a large percentage of lawyers are in it for themselves, why would someone who chooses a subject that has nothing to do with law care more about social justice?
It's statistically improbable to the point of being a bit silly.
The kid just didn't want to address the statement as worded. He kept trying to avoid the word "primary". In the end he excused the poor wording by exposing how he thinks leaders of academic institutions should talk like people just out of high school when making announcements. If the leader of an academic institution can't be trusted to mean the words they speak then what are we doing here?
Even more amusingly, he spends his time arguing semantics and how important a precise definition is. Then 100% contradicts himself when claiming that we should just be able to deduce a "gist" of what someone was trying to say, even if what they say is insane.
@@samus_aran_P this comment deserves to be pinned
The point of discussion or debate should always be consensus or progress, not who is wrong or right. Unfortunately these kids are either not being taught that or have egos that won't allow them to be
If Trump said the primary goal of instituions should be religiosity, he wouldn't grant him a bone that he actually meant promoting community and mutal respect.
He’s got a point though. We do have to navigate through social interactions in life by trying to get the gist of what people mean, because there are so many brainlets out there. And leaders of academic institutions are not beyond making hyperbolic statements. It’s a sad state of affairs to be in but idiots are failing upwards all over the place, and words are losing meaning. Look at the recent redefining of words such as ‘racism’, ‘recession’, ‘equity’, ‘misinformation’.
OMG, this was like pulling teeth... second, Universities are there to solve problems???? Since when? I thought they were there to educate.
Exactly. Educate. You solve your problems outside of Universities.
Well, it's both. Undergrad is for education. Graduate is for further education and ultimately to solve problems and create new knowledge.
I could have sworn they are marketed to educate people on how to perform a career role. I’m mind blown that it is thought to be something else.
@@Mutantcy1992 What problems did they solve at a college?
@@MediaBuster General Relativity.
University students are there to learn and explore, not to solve. That part comes later, maybe.
Only halfway through the video, but I'm calling it now: Peter correcting the student that it was N.W.A. who said "F*** tha police!" is the best part.
U can tell the kid never heard of nwa
Fuck *da* police
Note how the older guy (Strongly Disagree) who graduated from University before wokeness took hold speaks intelligently and is saying what he thinks and not what he was conditioned to think where as the young guy (Slightly Agree) sounds like he's regurgitating social justice talking points.
A University's purpose isn't to teach you how to solve all the worlds problems. Believing that is the primary purpose is part of the reason University's are failing students today. It's not preparing young adults to be more informed adults who seek truth but activists for a cause.
No one person can solve all the worlds problems
There's no 1 graduating class that could solve all the worlds problems
There's no 1 generation that could solve all the worlds problems
A University's primary goal should be to teach critical thinking including how to to think critically of what the University is teaching you and what the professors are telling you. Secondary goal would be to educate students on topics relevant to their degree. Once you can think critically you become much harder to program or condition and currently the goal of those administering the University system is to create programmable activists, not humans who can think critically.
If I could wave a wand it would be to end wokeness and all it's toxic siblings from feminism to Diversity
Exactly, university should teach people how to approach anything in life by looking at the available evidence for and against and then by critical thinking coming to a conclusion.
💥
If he says “like” one more time
you'd have to essentially be fully insane to agree with this. this one is much more clear cut than almost any of the others in my opinion.
Literally nobody makes this argument. the fact that he’s posing it as a question shows how desperate he is.
@@zaphodbebop105 3:15 "The president of Portland State University came out and said racial justice is the highest priority of the university." Can't find a link to the source and link hasn't been provided in the description, but if we take this at face value...you might be incorrect.
@@zaphodbebop105 desperate for what exactly?
Nobody makes this argument, but a quarter of the participants agreed with the statement.
@@zaphodbebop105 if you think that, you need to hang out with more college students and young people in general. I’d say half my friends from ages 18-31 would agree with this statement. Get out from under the rock you live beneath and prepare yourself for the perspectives you’ll see when you do.
@@zaphodbebop105 desperate for what?
Jeez, the Indian guy just didn't like the fact that the questions were deliberately framed in a way to discourage people away from his middle-of-the-road answers. That was the point of the exercise... We'll done to Peter sticking to his guns 👍
You think vague but politically polarizing questions are useful? I mean they're useful for clickbait, which is frankly what these videos are really about, but mostly it's just divisive.
@@soulscanner66 if you support the issues Peter Boghossian is asking people about it must be quite galling to see how unpopular they are with almost all people.
1994 graduate is so much more intelligent, well spoken, thoughtful, and honest than the others. It was a better time then that produced better people
Social Justice is a catch all for nonsense.
Unfortunate that this is the case. The leftist branding of social justice is often malevolence masked as equality. In a vacuum, I would say social justice is insuring that everyone is treated with the same opportunities. This isn't the case in academia where the basis is outcome (equity). The reason I would advocate for my brand of social justice instead of the leftist version is that there is likely an Einstein or Da Vinci who is picking avocados in central America and because they aren't afforded the same educational opportunities their mind isn't put to good use for humanity. The lack of our best hurts everyone. The leftist view will advocate for BLM as a social justice movement even when the data clearly refutes it. The left is permitted to redefine words, however. Not me.
That may be what it has been reduced to that is unfortunate. Justice is a good thing. Civic Justice is highly desirable just like Community Justice would be.
Unfortunately crazy far left radicals have taken a worthy notion and bastardized it into something that is neither social nor Justice.
But at its heart the removal of racism from The Human Condition would be a good thing.
@@D1it4FN I think the current attitude of the social justice movement by leftists will only exacerbate racism. An example of this is the decision by a Minneapolis teacher's union to codify the firing of white teachers first in the event that teachers need to be cut. Nothing screams racial equality like racial inequality.
This thing of people saying “you’re overthinking it… when someone says primary, they just mean important” is going to be the mantra until they’ve affected the change they were pretending not to want to make. It’s scary stuff.
It’s sad to hear people use the phrases such as “one of the best”, “one of the primary”, etc. It’s a tendency to avoid acknowledging that the world is full of trade offs. It’s “safer” to list all the options as primary or best.
I anticipate these videos all the time! Keep them coming these are excellent discussions! I only wished my university classes held this type of discourse.
Thanks. I just did a series of these at the University of Austin (UATX). They went really, really well, and I’ll be introducing new exercises next year!
I am so thankful I got through college before this kind of thinking took over. I was fortunate to actually have my college experience be this type of learning and discussion. The Socratic method has been abandoned which has contributed to the inability to fortify one’s position through
words/discussion which has in turn created the “speech is violence” response.
@@drpeterboghossianreally looking for it man!💯💯
I paid *$5k a semester* to learn an enriched, focused, and comprehensive approach to a *specified* discipline, not to be force-fed an ideology and get scolded that my very existence is evil. If I wanted to solve societal issues, I would've paid the arm-and-a-leg for the courses that perpetuate it.
Man, your videos are amazing. Society needs to learn the basic skills of discussion which is what I see in these videos.
Thank you. I really appreciate that.
Prepare people to seek truth. Love that.
I love it when people have more likes in their sentence than all other words combined, really makes me take them seriously.
Putting a modifier in front of the word “justice” results in something that can never truly be justice. By definition, justice is applied equally.
We demand justice justice, Major Major
@@daheikkinen yessss
Also "social justice" is just modern day "witch trials". It means you make up the rules, and then hold people responsible according to made up rules. These rules have not been discussed by educated law makers on the pros and cons and if it is reasonable to have these rules, and what the reasonable punishments would be. They are also followed without there being any jury or judges solving this in a fair way, but is handled by a mob who happens to share the same opinions, to settle the matter if you share the opinions or if you are a criminal.
Social justice is like mob justice. Mob justice is done by a mob. Social justice is done by a society. None of it are real justice but seen as justice anyway by the mob and society
I have to disagree with you slightly. The Constitution talks about Equal Justice. That is what we should strive for. So, as that second person said, meritocracy is justice. It is equal justice if everyone is judged on their own abilities.
When did it become the university’s mission to prepare students to face challenges? The sole mission of the university should be A)teaching the required subjects and courses for the student to be able to have the credentials to apply for a job in a field that they choose. B)Foster a learning environment that promulgates and rewards the use of critical thinking. This has nothing to do with social justice and it should have nothing to do with equal outcome ideology.
probably around the same time they started offering remedial math classes like basic fractions due to lowering entrance standards to make more money, or ... for the cause of "equity."
In my first year at uni my lecturer told us we are here to change the world. I was like what? We barely know anything LOL.
The mission statement and primary objective of the university is education. In reality education should build ones self-esteem and ability to think critically, by stimulating curiosity. How many teachers, professors and by extension parents (via indoctrination through schooling) do not inspire curiosity in their children?
I agree with you, however I feel like the purpose of education is to bring about a fair, just and productive society. Which in its ultimate form would be a socially just society (social justice), right? Chicken before the egg? Or separate them and start with one hoping for the other without acknowledging the other is the outcome of the one? Again, I agree but if the ultimate outcome of education is a just society aren’t the two connected and interchangeable? I’m not convinced by my thinking and know it’s not perfect logic, just curious what others think of the bond and difficult, but reasonable interchangeability of the two. If knowledge was the ultimate goal than social justice would be the ultimate outcome, no?
Obviously semantics but could this explain some peoples thinking whether they see it or not?
@@levikender4820 I don't even know what fair is other than something sujective.. I've never mentioned anthing about fairness to my children. Only how we deal with suffering andhow not to be a dirtbag. To expect injustice and to never facilitate it.
@@levikender4820 Hopefully yes, but most people who follow serious disciplines aren't thinking like that. They're doing for the love of it. How many top brains have ended up contributing to the suffering of humans and other living things, even if unintentionally? Many. And that's not even including the damning fact that social justice as it exists today, is cynical, misanthropic, counter to human progress and just generally more harmful than it is benevolent.
If someone says "everything is political", give them a wide berth.
@@jmc0369 fairness for example would be you working a job for you family and someone not paying you for it. That is unfair. Obviously things you can’t control are hard to quantify when it comes to fairness but we all know what fairness is. Equal opportunity would be considered fair by anyone with a middle school education. I don’t have kids, but I plan on it. And when I/we do I’ll teach them not to accept people treating them unfairly. That could describe a boss, or a girlfriend or teacher. To flush this out we have to agree that fairness exists and most adults understand it right? To expect it is one thing but to understand it is expected right? If you buy a brand new car from a dealership and it’s a lemon, we would agree that’s unfair right?
Everybody knows the universities and refers to them as "educational institutions". If social justice activism is the primary objective, then it's an activist institution first, and an educational institution secondary. I don't see how a primarily activist institution could offer better quality education than a primarily educational institution.
See: Goddard College, Evergreen State College, etc...
The old guy is very well spoken and makes a lot of sense.
He graduated when university was after truth, not indoctrination. Anyone graduating post 2010… may God have mercy on their souls! 😆
There was this one quote from Jordan Peterson that really resonated with me when it comes to institutions of education: "They are there to make you dangerous."
Being educated, being well spoken, having access to vast knowledge and being able to utilize it is a lot of power to wield. As with all power, it's about what you do with it, but you can only do great things if you are able to amass great power. But you can't do that with the kids gloves on.
In that regard, any well run university should be anathema to anything social justice.
I think this totally dismantled the kid’s argument who was on slightly agree. Knowledge, being well spoken and educated makes you very dangerous. Which makes what the guy on the strongly disagree line was saying all the more important, you have to be very careful with what you say and how you interpret the world(or data in his argument). Exercise extreme caution because you are responsible for what comes of your utterances.
That's a rather large non-sequitur there, so obviously someone could use his power to fight against racism, no?
@@JCT1926 Sure, like I said, you can use that power for anything.
But acquiring that power means to go out and expose yourself to everything that might be there, no matter how dangerous it might be. Social Justice is all about minimizing that kind of danger.
Remember that video about the girl yelling at the dean that he was supposed to make the university a home? That's exactly not what it should be, and that's what social justice is trying to make it, in its very twisted way.
Peter often (and I think even in this video) brings up the police shooting statistics of black people.
Now imagine you want to fight racism. Fair enough. Now shouldn't you first learn about the topic? And I mean really learn about what's going on, not just the feel-good battlecry of "racism bad", that is kind of used to enable a lot of shitty stuff. The things you could learn about the topic might be surprising, the root causes of the problems you are trying to tackle might lie somewhere else entirely, somewhere where the "racism bad" slogan would never have allowed you to go and look. You need to go at these things with an open mind, and you have to look at these things from all angles, even the ugly ones.
And social justice is all about removing the ugly ones entirely, which removes a large part of the things you might learn. For example, if you remove historical literature from the reading lists because it's racist and might people feel uncomroftable, you're removing a large portion of the historical knowledge as well, that people could have learned from it.
Feeling uncomfortable is part of learning. Social justice is all about removing these uncomfortable things for superficial reasons.
I'm enjoying the hell out of these and appreciate that they're not edited to purposely make people look like fools . . . although they may sometimes do that to themselves. At the same time these videos frighten me. I used to be one of those people that laughed at the silly ideas you would hear while in university and think you'd never find anyone with those beliefs outside academia, but now I understand that every silly idea ends up being mainstream ideology and even government policy.
Becoming addicted to these PB. I like this mix of young and “old”. Amazing what experience offers. Post Grads spitting facts here. Please share the ponytail lumberjacks YT channel. Classic bloke.
I wish Peter had just said to the last guy "Sometimes people mean what they say." Kind of flippant but still a good question I think.
Exactly! I was hoping Peter was going to tell him "I think you are being naive" but in a nice way.
I think we need to generally assume that people mean what they say. This allows us to engage in real dialogue with one another and find honest disagreements and agreements with one another.
It’s very dangerous to assume you know what the other person means.
For example, if the president of PSU says the university should prioritize racial justice above other priorities, then we should think critically about that proposal. Assuming that he means it should be a consideration among many other considerations for the university eliminates the possibility of real dialogue and debate.
@@anniegilligan7132 Yup. What a dummy xd
@@anniegilligan7132 If someone is so flippant about the president saying something like that I can't take them seriously as a person. I think it said more about the student being careless with his words than any real assumption about what the president may have meant.
@@Adam-zo7nz It's just like anyone who says "Everything anyone ever does is for money and/or power".....they are going to behave as such and they should be given a wide berth.
"People aren't thinking about the words that they're saying" says the only person who agrees that "social justice" should be a primary mission of a university. Unfortunately, if you step out of that room, 90% of that campus will agree with him BECAUSE none of them are thinking about the words they are saying.
Social justice is the antithesis of justice. Justice is no longer 'justice' the moment you add a modifier to it.
Peter I can see Jonathan Haidts influence in this question. The telos of the university: truth or social justice? You draw from many thinkers and ask students to engage with their ideas. If only we had a college club dedicated to this in every school. Coming from a sophomore, keep up the fantastic work!
Can't believe these younger students are from the same university as that biologist.
How refreshing...watching a civil discussion and sharing of opinions, and perspectives.
And again another awesome discussion! Keep up the great work. 😎👍
The real question today is - “In order to preserve my job at the top of an organization, should I publicly announce that social justice is the primary reason for our organization?”
This is awesome! This is how I was taught to think by French Academics at my university in the 80s. Come to Toronto and Vancouver (you will need to wear complete NHL hockey goalie equipment). One can apply critical thinking to all areas of scholarship: math, applied science, 19th Spanish literature, anthropology, any subject.
Really enjoying this series of discussions. More please!
Great video, Dr. Boghossian. Keep up the good work.
Social justice Warriors could argue that if you make everybody so safe from anything that is even borderline offensive that you create a situation where no one is capable of thinking about anything for fear of being disturbed by what they're thinking about so they just sit around and talk about how awesome it is to not have to think about anything that's deplorable or unpleasant
Thinking of the college as an entirely different ecosystem is part of the problem imo. It's like trying to say the Amazon Rainforest doesn't play a role in the weather patterns of the rest of the world, and that the logging of the Amazon isn't related to the demands of the rest of the world. While I think there is some benefit to studying partitioned ecosystems, it's important to realize that those partitions aren't actually real in the same way a state or country doesn't have borders that show up when you take a picture from space. The college gets input from all sorts of external variables that influence what it focuses on and how it operates.
As far as the kid with the lazy eye, I think imagining a college as a place primarily motivated to "solve the worlds problems" is far more dangerous and misunderstands the institution itself. The purpose of the collegiate institution is as the older gentleman said, to help train people to seek truth. Not to be told what the problems of the world are, to accept those problems as dogma, and then to go out and find ways to "solve" said problems. That kid is about 2 steps off from proposing "final solutions" to problems that don't even exist in reality.
Well said
A university isn;t like the Amazon rain forest.
@@soulscanner66 I guess it sure is a good thing I didn't say that. I recommend you go work on your English reading comprehension a bit more before responding to any more comments.
To help you along, in this case I am comparing conceptual ecosystems, not trying to say a college is literally a forest. You can tell by actually reading the words.
Peter is doing the lords work.
Critical thought is the single greatest human ability.
Flannel guy is one of the best participants of any of these exercises yet. Very well done.
It's so easy to see the failures in the college system and think it is only a result of corruption and greed, but then something like this comes around and you see that there are students perfectly willing to sabotage their own education based off these moral indoctrinations.
The bottom line is the primary goal of college is education, and although there is an argument that general education is valuable for critical thinking, general knowledge, and practical knowledge in regards to the current state of society, the reason you are paying 30-150 thousand dollars is to receive a specialized education that is competitive in the field you want to base your life around. If you are not looking at college like a business transaction, where you are possibly taking on life long debt in order to increase your job prospects, then you are going to be treated like a fool.
Your last sentence is a perfect explanation. 💯
Me receiving college acceptance letter in the mail: “what’s a ‘business transaction?’”
It's obvious that the primary objective of a university should be conveying information effectively and accurately, and teaching critical thinking and tools that allow students to use and act upon that information. Then you would logically prioritize that which impacts the viability of the human race, which isn't social justice.
Thank you very much for demonstrating how difficult it is to actually think about things especially in the hypothetical Zone because we're also afraid of what everybody else will think that we're waiting to see how the crowd moves before we set our feet down the inability to literally talk about everything for fear of offending someone or finding out something about ourselves that we don't want to know is exactly what is keeping us from excelling faster and with more success and efficiency
"There's an implied justice in meritocracy."
100% correct. I'm going to use it.
University is here to solve the big issues......no? University is here to give you education....and then you do whatever you want with the knowledge gained... if you gained any that is....considering this and other videos.
P.S. "LIKE!LIKE! ......."
Yup, social justice has no business being in computer science cirriculum... Its very unsettling knowing how much money students pay to be indoctrinated against their will in degrees that have zero relations to social justice.
@@thenoseyskeptic That guy thinks that facts and feelings are of equal importance. He doesn't realise that you test your assumptions to see whether they are correct, with the facts. Mind blowing.
He "Slightly Agrees" because he's a young millennial and has for the 12 years before college has been indoctrinated to support social justice activism.
Gen Z, not Millennial, surely?
These conversations from students attending such a prestigious institution scares me for the future generations!
I’m so happy this channel is growing . Keep it up Peter! Street Epistemology for the win!! BCHadoken!!
11:40 no, the reason why some people FEEL (anecdote) a certain way is there PERCEPTION of something, which usually isn't based in reality.
Uh oh! This one is at Berkeley. Two guesses what the tone of that crowd is gonna be. They’ll still be no match for Peter. 😂🤣😂✌️
My 3 year niece is more than a match for this re-tard.
Haha Yeah, Their priorities are out of order🤣🧙♂️👍
This is so good. Thank you Peter
The old man on the right makes the most sense.
NWA, I just died
And I had this idea that people go to universities to learn something like mathematics or psychology. I must be old fashioned...
Chap at the end should read your resignation letter. Thanks again, Peter 🙏
I love these. I wish there were MORE academicians who would do this kind of work - really getting people to think and talk about their beliefs. Done without judgement, done with the goal of honest enquiry. I’m so cheered to see the many students and academics who are open minded & thoughtful. The students who have swallowed the koolaid of Critical Theory just come across as utterly brainwashed, unable to countenance dissent and absolutely full of hot air.
I really like how Peter had the definition of "primary" brought up for everyone. It seems many of the Reverse Q&A sessions contain words or are written in ways that can be easily misinterpreted. Would it be possible to hold a session in a way that contestants have a standard definition for the terms used in the statements before beginning?
Participants usually generate these claims. Sometimes I tweak them for clarity, but almost all of the time they’re participant generated. We’re going to release a video showing this process.
@@bigheadsamuel Ah, definitely! I agree with you but I'd like to see how the conversations go when that "wiggle room" is removed. Regardless, I really enjoy this content and I like to think I'm learning from watching these videos.
Peter is the king of creating a positive environment for idiots to completely make fools of themselves. And he does it without being a jerk, which is extremely impressive. Keep up the great work Peter! We LOVE what you do and how you do it.👍
Actually this dude is a demonstrable idiot. Who said universities should be for SJ?
Nobody.
Having free and open discussion is a great way to have people examine their thinking and perhaps change their minds.
You know what doesn't work all that well? Calling people idiots. It usually puts them on the defensive and hardens their heart and mind against changing their view
The man on the strongly disagree possesses logic and wisdom.
Shout out to the alum from the 90s. Clear logic flow, straight to the point, eloquent speaker
it's very concerning that "social" justice has become so pervasive that, not only are its conceits passively accepted as valid and true, but it's seen as the highest moral good possible. When you remove proper religion from people's worldview, it leaves a vacuum in people's mindset that WILL be filled, and it's never filled with something better, but always something less deep, less serious, less wise, less challenging, and more self-centered. Christianity as it is actually written is a great good with a challenging surface-level. Leftism as it is intended is a great evil with 'good intentions' surface.
Loved how the source of the question was revealed
The ending part is so satisfying. Until the end I was thinking: "the guy is not totally wrong, it is a strange question."
I took a shot every time Berkeley shirt guy said "like." I died of alcohol poisoning.
I really enjoyed this conversation. Keep up the good work
Mr Boghossian, I found you from Lotus Eaters. Great videos.
Whether I agree or disagree with the presenter or the participants it's great to see people engaging and discussing complex social issues. Despite the example of some it's also great to see many young people being aware and passionate about matters they care about....even if I disagree.
These discussions are fascinating. It’s helping me understand HOW woke people think, not just WHAT they think.
Peter Boghossian is a saint.
they have been screaming that climate change is going to get us for 40/50+years, and what we have had this summer where i live is a typical southern Ontario summer, we have had a few hot days, otherwise just normal high 70's low 80's exactly the same as it was 40/50 years ago so am not sure where all this the world is burning bullcrap comes from i have yet to witness this phenomena yes the hot days are sometimes really hot but we had those days occasionally back in the late 70's i thought you went to college to learn something so you could go out and make a living and support your family not to change the world as the world changing would come from your work out in the world if the uni's mission is to do social justice then it is a complete waste of time I love these videos just to get a glimpse into the reason why they are even at the college in the first place
He understands the question the wrong way, so the problem is the question. Says a lot.
“In all debates, let truth be thy aim, not victory, or an unjust interest.”
-- William Penn.
I've heard, "I won," so many times when debating progressives. Like it's a game.
@@edwinamendelssohn5129 "You can destroy those who speak the truth, but you cannot destroy the truth itself."
"Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self."
"There have always been and always will be those who are driven by hate and want to blame those who are happy, creative and productive for their misery."
--Terry Goodkind.
@@edwinamendelssohn5129 "There is no Religion Higher than the Truth"
--Helena Blavatsky.
"ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free"
--John 8
"The President of Portland state said it"
Mic drop for Peter.
'Feeling that something may not be right with the conclusion.' This intuition can only be rooted in a huge amount of experience, conscious and unconscious memories contributing to criticism of the present conclusion and pointing the way to a better one.
Your doing amazing work.
Finally someone said it "Social justice should be our primary concern, I'm like I get that you want to draw importance to it. Like I know it's not that deep." Because people can't delve any deeper into it. People don't want to delve deeper into it. Most people just want to be heard and not explain themselves.
I took a shot every time he said like,...I'm dying.
That guy on strongly disagree is so well spoken and on point.
That one guy with the word “like” lmao Not to mention his eyes. 😮😂
Best one yet! It was like folding and unfolding origami.
The very person who realizes everyone would agree if the statement was made reasonably and is frustrated by it defends the statement as harmless in it’s intent. He couldn’t get off that stage fast enough, before the penny might drop.
The comic book store owner from the Simpsons really knocked it out of the park on that one. A sharp thinker and clear communicator.
Great video!
When the person said “feel” they were referring to “intuition” based on expertise.
That was thoroughly enjoyable. It's such a treat to get to listen to such smart people discussing something. They are all evidence of a successful education IMHO. They are all able to explain their thoughts, take in new information and evaluate it, and see both the forest and the trees at different points in the discussion. Well done everyone.
The older guy is totally giving me X files lone gun man vibes 😂❤
Great stuff as always professor
I’d like to see one where the claim is “College is a luxury”. With all the talk about student loan forgiveness, I’d love to see how different generations and students view this, especially since it’d be taking place on a campus.
These are fucking gold, keep making them please.