Do Going 2nd Card do TOO Much?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ต.ค. 2024
- Dark Ruler Evenly, a tale as old as time.
Edited by Purin
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To quote a wise farfa viewer: "1 card board breakers are legal as long as 1 card combos exists"
Except there's no board-breaker like evenly
@@aoi2853ummm… DRNM?
@@aoi2853yea, we need more cards like evenly ngl
@@invertbrid evenly is an old poorly written card. A new card would be a lot more balanced
@@aoi2853It's nice card that required for how far combos has become. I argue we need more board breaker as powerful as evenly, also DRNM and droplet.
Maybe unrespondable by monster effects book of eclipse with different drawback as quick play spell. Or torrential tribute that can be used from hand.
When u make 5-9 disruptions, u deserve every board breaker that comes your way.
Broo this isnt about the players its about how the game has gone to shit 😭 Why are you talking about deserving something when they are literally just playing the game
Basically almost every deck in recent YGO lol.
Minus stun and lab.
@@invertbridhappy Labrynth noises 🎉
Board breakers need to be even better, in my opinion. Most of the time they just bait out one of your opponents negates. The best board breakers are cards like Super Poly and Dark Ruler, because they can't be responded to. Forbidden Droplet is okay, but the discard cost can be steep. Board breakers that can be negated should be even better. I think it's time we get Raigeki with a grave yard added effect and Evenly that doesn't use battle phase
@@JustSomeGuyLass bro is this actually the game you want to be playing? i dont know what is fun about yugioh to you but this just cannot be it.
If the opponent can set up a Board with multiple negates and disruptions using just 1 card, I think it's fair that just 1 card is enough to nullify his Board.
6:20 "Raigeki and Duster should be the ceiling for board breakers" absolutely not. A card simply destroying all monsters on field and sending them to graveyard hasn't been enough since like, Duelist Alliance format essentially, where archetypes began to have more and more cards that float/have beneficial graveyard effects/resist destruction. It's why cards like Dark Hole, Lightning Storm, and Raigeki can all be legal currently and still see almost no play.
Going second cards need to be a nuke, because the turn 1 player in Yugioh gets to do cold fusion. The Yubel player here has a board full of interaction and went plus 7, but that doesn't mean his board should have to answers literally everything. His ending board didn't have enough S/T negates to account for something like Evenly, so he got blown out. It's okay for decks to be weak to a specific type of removal, and it just feels like Skarlon arguing that there shouldn't be scenarios where a wombo combo board should never be able to be outed by 1 card, which is crazy to assert considering the flexibility of end board and the amount advantage generated by the turn 1 player.
a card should read
"if you dont control any cards, you can activate this effect, destroy all cards youre opponant controls, youre opponant cant activate card effects for the rest of this turn"
so long as theres decks that can assemble a board like this turn 1, with such easy, their needs to exist cards that can just as easily destroy them, otherwise if the turn 2 player has to exspend all resources to break that board, they will have non to conduct their own turn/board and they will just lose on Turn 3.
@@TheFallinhaloI thought you were just spamming this as a troll, but now I see you’re 100% serious. You have a serious mental disorder.
they are right we need more going second cards. give us a lightning storm, duster, and raigeki that banishes face down and give us a hand trap for going second that basically is cbtg in that it banishes and negates a card from the gy if you have no card on the field.
The sentiment makes sense from their perspective but the real answer is that the board should not have been possible turn 1 to begin with. But that is the game as of the past however many years and that is how the game will remain. You either accept that both going first and turn 2 cards are fucking insane and kind of need to be this way forever or you move on.
??????
also, they are board breakers: They are supposed to break board. Otherwise, just play a coin toss game instead since going first boards are nearly unbeatable if you don't allow board breakers.
Ya this guy is really dumb
If my opponent draws all the outs, that's just what it is.
Remember back in the day when we were complaining that going first was too strong and going second was a huge disadvantage.........wait we still have this complaint?
If a one card combo can't be outed with one card, that one card combo is too strong, regardless of power creep.
evenly is only annoying when youre the one flooding the board with negates only to get evenly matched.
i for one could not give a shit for a combo player's complaint.
Decks without negates also exist and they can’t play around evenly. Forcing every deck to have a negate isn’t healthy.
@@林承緒-p2e again your problem isnt evenly. Evenly does not instantly win you the game, you skip your battle phase on purpose.
if your combo deck dies after getting board broken, then it seems the design just wants a one turn KO. imo, OTKs should not be allowed in the game to begin with.
Evenly in any other slower format would not be as strong. Dark Ruler No More is terrible in a format you cant OTK.
Your entire complaints are irrelevant here
Yeah becouse if you are not is unfair... that is the problem with the card the play around is abuse S:P (a busted card) or just negate it... peak trash design
Controversial take. If your deck has no spell/trap negate you cant complain losing to evenly.
In my opinion, since decks already play around Nib I don't really see what the problem is with expecting people to play around other cards. I've had to cut down on using Nib because most people will play around it now, at least like 80% of the time. The whole 'you activated my trap card' is PART of yugioh going back to stuff like magic cylinder and mirror force. People stopped playing most of those cards because they're too slow, so all that handtraps / imperm / evenly do is create the same gameplay concept at higher speed. I think that gameplay should still be part of the game...and of course it feels bad to lose against but that's always going to be the case.
I fully agree with this. Having a shocking out/interaction has always been a core of Yu-Gi-Oh and the ways trap cards allow you to respond to an opponent used to be a unique core part of the game design differentiating it from the competition back when people still played them.
Besides, it's not like it feels any better to watch your opponent set up his unbreakable board for five minutes and then lose because you cannot possibly have enough interaction to beat it.
@@emeraldeyes5319 I'm biased because I play blue in magic, but I really enjoy playing counters moreso than just combos. Straight aggro decks don't really work in yugioh since everything is combo based, but at that point I just pick cards based on the lore/art and fun gameplay (I like snake-eye and branded for example)
If you put a whole board uninterrupted without a single omni negate, you deserves to get evenly-ed
No? Not everydeck has the same playstyle
How do you make an omni when every generic omni is banned 😭
I like evenly but what u're saying doesn't make sense, we already lost most generic extra deck Omni negates and many decks do not have in-archetype Omni negates like branded or unchained
@@Ulquiorra_CiferYou should spam a board without any protection.
You basically playing a beatdown deck going 1st and thats dumb
Well in the example oponnets is playing 60 cards plant and open 3 breakers you can't win against that
I feel like the latter is a symptom of the former.
Meaning Going second needed to get stronger for it even being viable even more.
The fact Yubel puts up boards like this with one or one and a half cards is insane.
Of course a card going second needs to do a lot if one card going first equals to that uninterrupted.
And the thing is Yacine here could have even played around evenly.
One insane breaker isn't even enough most of the time anymore.
I feel like this is inevitable through powercreep, but ever since PotE imo the powerlevel of deck just reached like an event horizon, where they just get too powerful to ever be healthy for the game.
The fact a card like SE Ash got printed with no archetypal or even any kind of lock is beyond me.
One card combos are one thing, but then being as resilient as they are now where they're able to play theough 2 Handtraps is insane.
That being said I don't believe in the context of the game atm they are doing too much.
Arguably they sometimes even do too little alone.
While Harpies or Lightningstorm are good, there are way too many backrow cards now that can trigger in the grave (espetially since Rollback the powerlevel got out of hand) or when destroyed, IF you can even do that.
The better have it mentality is just always a thing in card games because there's variance.
Doesn't mean it's fine, but it feels like if Konami ever wanted to do something against it, we passed that point a long time ago.
Same thing with fuwaros, shifter, far ruler and other insane blow out cards. The argument is that they’re a necessary evil, because going first is so insanely strong due to 1 card combo that lead to more negates and interaction than cards in hand for the player going second. For player 2 to even have a chance, they need these cards.
Also ye it’s rlly important to note, yubel loses to evenly matched it’s something that yubel can’t really play around without saving an Omni negate. Also to be fair, evenly matched requires u give up ur battle phase, the game usually doesn’t end immediately so player 1 does get a chance for the clap back, although ig usually if they use everything up then thats game over right there
Evenly damn near ends your main phase 1 too
End BP? No, we stay here forever.
Board breakers are based
I hate both 1 card wombo combos and board breakers like Evenly Matched. I personally dont think cards like Evenly are the answer to shit design choices like SE Ash. In the end, the card ends up punishing much weaker decks more so than the meta ones. Unfortunately, Konami shot itself in the foot by making poor design choices, so now we have to live with this nonsense. On both ends. It isnt fun to have to break a tier 1 board with multiple negates, but it also sucks getting Evenly Matched while playing a pet deck that heavily relies on all its on board resources to even compete. Imho, we need a new, more balanced card design philosophy as well as a more comprehensive, consistent banlist. For example, I HEAVILY agree that TTT needs to be banned. But until Konami starts printing more balanced cards, that dumbass card will still be defended and maybe even needed to an extent. Ugh. I love this game but I only see this problem getting worse cause we know Konami aint gonna do shit. More powercreep equals more money. Simple as.
I really do understand the pain of when your opponent goes straight to battle phase and you know what is coming. However, the previous board breakers are just not good enough for the modern game. Raigeki? With all the destruction protection and combos for when cards get destroyed or go to the graveyard you can often feel like your helping your opponent rather than punishing them for overextending. It's why evenly's ability to banish facedown is needed.
I don't know why people want the game to become closer to a coin flip than it already is.
Because youre pushing the game to a point where it wont even be much of a game anymore. Its like inflation you cant just print bigger shit cause then you gotta print even bigger shit. If a card that banishes an entire board of cards face down is needed then where do you even go from there.
There is no such thing as overextending at this point in yugioh history.
Yea, like wtf does "overextending" mean in YGO? Just put up a worse board? This game plays so differently than nearly every other card out there at this point you cant just plop outside theory and expect it to work.
Kinda unrelated (I dont think board breakers are a problem), but I just want to point out that people would complain about this game's issues a lot less if people could actually afford to buy the good decks, lol.
Old combo decks used to leave you at 0 cards in hand.
Nowadays combodecks are the safest decks because u onky need 1 ard to do full boar combo. Can play nonengine and end on +2 in hand
Yugioh has become a 1 card string theory.
Like why the hell do I have to waste all of my negates just for my opponent to easily spam their monsters back on the field 2-3 times?
I'm outta cards and they have a full board plus 3-4 cards in hand.
All the new starter/extender cards need revisions to do effects only on your turn.
I'm ok with the links being able to do stuff on my turn, what gets me mad is the constant fire summoning spams.
The Crimson Dragon was a fatal error as well, a free Blazar.
They should have left Ultimaya Tzolkin alone.
Evenly matched is balanced.
It cannot be used to OTK going second so it's for decks that plans to go second but not kill on turn 1. It's actually a grindy slow card.
Also YubelFiendsmith losing to boardbreakers is because the deck has a weakness, not having many omnis. They can make Varudras, but not much else.
Yep thats the reason why I dont even run it in Cyber Dragon cause you dont want a long game you either otk or thats it.
Not true. With the hand he had he could have made all he had + varudras and diesirae. He just trolled combo and lost to his misplays.
I think Evenly is completely fine. A turn is the most expensive resource in the game, and the cost you pay to activate evenly is you can't win the game that turn.
I really think Yugioh needs some kind of massive peeling back of powercreep, it passed its ideal playability in like, 2018 and it's been stuck on the edge of being completely unplayable for a while, now.
i feel like we may need to introduce new mechancs and such.
new rulings, new mechanics, or possibly go scorched earth and after so many balance passes, if a archtype is still proving troublesome its entire archtype gets nuked onto the banlist never to be seen again.
the game id argue has become unplayable now, i want to play a 2 player game, not sit there watching someone else play solitaire for god know show long, and then turn to me and then go "good game, youre no longer able to ddo anything, so i win"
i know that final option will piss off a vast array of the playerbase but for the health of the game it may be nessesary, i just dont think ban lists arent enough to remedy the state the game is in.
If anything we need stronger backrow removal board breakers, something akin to lava golem, sphere mode, DRNM, or forbidden droplet but for the backrow.
Woooo, traps get worse, great
@@tame1773 There are ways to make traps more viable without them just being uninteractable
@@tame1773 Just revamp the master rule. Add a back backrow only for traps where the going second player can set 2-3 of them before the duel starts
So red reboot? But it was deemed to powerful.
I dunno any way to make board wipe backrow better than duster but weaker than red reboot.
Or u can just play denko sekka.
@@Numbers_Gameability to set traps for going second player before duel is kinda interesting, tho ppl likely will just set floodgates.
Evenly seems fine since it mirriors the state of your opponents board. The smaller the board, the weaker it is, the lagrer the board, the stronger it is and that's if it can even resolve. It can still be kept in check with omni negates, spell/trap negates or a cheeky crossout.
It's not a "I win" card by default that some people make it out to be since it's (like with most cards) dependant on the format.
I’ve gotten to the point where if I set up a really good board and my opponent drew the outs then I just scoop and accept they are the better duelist. Lmao. They won, what else can I do? Some times they don’t draw the out and I win, other times, they draw the Called by and Ash for my Maxx C and Shifter and that’s it. I’m -2 with no more interruptions in hand.
The Yubel vs Evenly screenshot is actually a horrible example, because it shows how weak Evenly Matched is in the modern game. Not only did Yubel missplay, creating a much weaker board, even then, it's not losing to Evenly Matched. It actually required THREE BOARD BREAKERS to break a suboptimal Yubel end board. That's an absolute travesty. If decks like Yubel, Snake-Eyes etc... are going to keep existing (they are). Going second cards need to be way stronger than Evenly Matched.
Oh, you hate Evenly Matched? Sucks to suck. End battle phase
Making your opponent wait 5 minutes before you fill up your board with negates and large beatsticks, and filling your grave with stuff that will combo off if your cards on the field get destroyed is what makes cards like evenly matched justified.
Board Breakers will always be the best way to play. Hand Traps are cool, but nothing is more satisfying than picking apart your opponents board and grinding. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesnt. Thats the way it is.
I just wish it didn't banish face down. completely eliminates any chance of a turn 3 crackback unless you can nuke your own board somehow
Real
You can choose to not play into evenly lol, quite literally a skill issue
You gota be really dumb to say something like this. Most decks cannot play around evenly its literally either stop your plays or put up an omninegate. It's hilarious to say just play around it when that isn't typically possible for most decks
@@Big1nz play around nib
@Big1nz and that's why those decks are rogue, we're talking about meta decks here, this particular one having 2 outs for evenly.
This board beats evenly btw
@@dissidiamaniac460that is way more rasonable than evenly, you don't lose the cards basicaly for the rest of the duel... and you can punish a early nib... not a early evenly
If my opponent opens ash and has an end board of 3 monster negates, 2 omni negates, 17 spell negates, takes my wife hostage, put a curse on my grandchildren and ate my sandwich.
I believe it's fair game if I open 3 evenly and stumble through an exosister 'combo'.
The thing about board breakers is that it actively encourages big negate boards, since MST sadly doesnt negate.
I feel like good decks keep finding ways to give cards to their opponent to play around Evenly whether it's Iblee or Sanctifire or Set Rotation or Mushroom Man 2
... I didn't even think about it till I read this comment, but yeah, Mushroom Man 2 totally outs Evenly xD
i think a big problem with yugioh feeling tedious to play is that it feels like we all know how "combos" go most of the time, even konami basically seems to have a template when designing an archetype today:
- field that searches a starter + does something else
- a couple low level monster starters
- higher level extenders that may be bricks in hand
- broken boss monster in extra deck
- high level main deck monster that is a brick in hand
- any of the higher level monsters searches an archetype spell/trap
The problem with this setup is that we all know the goal is to get to the broken boss monster in the extra or so, but doing it requires 5+ "steps" of activating searchers and shit, kind of makes me wonder how different the game would be if archetypes had bulkier monsters that did not require that many steps to reach (therefore also having less need for negates and chokepoints)
So an archetype kind of like kash and u.a? That does sound like it could be cool, not too strong but not a slouch
Finally, another person who thinks calling the Fiendpile/Fiendbox "Yubel" is dumb!
The "yubel" deck doesn't even play very many Yubel cards to begin with. It's more Fiendsmith/Unchained than Yubel and even then it's more Fiendsmith than Unchained
I destroyed my opponents monsters, now im losing. What a cool game.
Finally had a good turn at locals, opponent uses evenly, I solemn judgment, on resolution, evenly matched. I could have cried.
In an ideal world, I agree with Skarlon, but we don’t live in one.
I would argue that in most cases it’s not unreasonable to say you should play around board breakers you’re likely to see.
The problem with cards like DRNM and Evenly is that they're too free. Oh no, not the battle phase, that's too high of a cost for basically reseting my opponent's full board.
Board breakers should be more like Droplet.
i think ra sphere mode is the most toxic board breaker, especially now that ending on just 2 monsters is not enough to win. you basically have to play into it
I’m not sure why the Japanese branch of Konami doesn’t make the TCG sets do what they do there and print secrets as lower rarity in the same sets. They could still short print, unfortunately.
I just don’t think the OCG has that much of a problem in terms of cost.
Forget about individual, going second cards. If the only good and competitive going second deck after so many years is tenpai, then going second cards aren't even the enough to stop the 1 card combo decks and the adaptability they have. You need 2 board breakers specifically together to break a board, assuming you even can.
Unless they just stop making these decks able to cover every negate under the sun, I don't see how we're ever getting rid of these super charged going 2nd staples.
Yugioh has always been insanely swingy its not just a powercreep issue. Resolving raigeki or heavy storm would usually put a player so far ahead or win on the spot in old yugioh, and this also applies to floodgates and even monsters like bls. Modern yugioh is faster and more consistent with more turn 1 actions but it ends up playing out like old yugioh with stuff like boardbreakers, just on turn 2 instead of a later turn. If anything recursion and resilience in archetypes makes boardbreakers less effective sometimes than they once were, but they are still a necessary and core part of the game.
I like modern and old yugioh, but modern does not play like old yugioh in the slightest. Think goat and edison, the two most popular retro formats. They are more like poker or traditional card games in that bluffing a face-down or guessing your opponent’s position is a constant recurring aspect of the game you factor in at nearly every point of interaction.
The issue with yugiohs eternal format is every deck has to be homogenized to do the same thing in order to either keep up or power creep the previous format. And any new support has to change the decks completely to just be wombo combo decks. There’s tons of unique decks but they just aren’t good enough. Fair in Yugioh is bad.
Can't evenly when tenpai wins before end of battpe phase.
Rant time:
The cards should not exist in the first place. why are they printing cards that have no meaningful draw back to use them. Sure they have built in restrictions but if you're gonna break even or +1 or more on card advantage, there needs to be a meaningful drawback built in that. These cards currently should be restricted to 1 just because of how broken they are and if they must stay in game, other cards that are just as broken (Similar effects) but must also be at 1 should take their place. So instead of 3 evenly matched in a deck, you get 1 plus 2 other cards that can only be used once (built in or limited) that do similar effects to what Evenly Matched does.
Plus we have enough archetypes. No more new archetypes. Just make free agents again. Make lots of them. Make cards that are meant to go into any deck and update all older archetypes that haven't seen any significant upgrades. I understand that konami thinks making new archetypes will sell new product, but using Yubel as an example, Its perfectly viable to just focus on the old ones for a while. Keep making ban list for a while that slow down relevant decks so you can push new product since that's the accepted formula, but do it to improve older archetypes and give us more free agents to work with them. Archetypes that share monster types should have one or two cards that touch those monster types only. Every archetype needs their own hand traps. This will allow for a vast number of cards to be made and sought after, keeping the overall pricing of these cards generally low on the secondary market (except for when they are in immediate needed after release) and make it so they only work mainly in their respected decks. Finally, Board breaker cards that effect more that 3 cards at the same time, must have a better drawback. the point of those cars should be to even the playing field, and nothing more.
A bonus pipe dream request (It will never happen but I want it to): Errata older cards to work better than they did. We have so many cards that just seem they would have been a bit better during their time period if the wording made sense or if they matched the source material better. An example of this are Toons (there are other examples but this is the one that comes to mind at the moment). There are Three normal monsters that should have been Toons according to the show (Dark Rabbit, Parrot Dragon, and TOON ALLIGATOR) and the fact that they are not toons sucks. I personally would love to be able to use these cards in a toon deck as indicated by the show. Having Normal Toon monsters would be a way to give the deck proper attackers without taking away from that they normally do, and they honestly only need the 3. As of other cards, i feel it should happen in order to shake up format options a bit. They can say that these cards were intended to be used this way from the start, call it an "Intended Errata" and thus it will signal to players that these older cards should have been played that way back then. How hard would it be to make a database for that? I feel with what is currently in place it wont be that difficult. Obviously this might effect how to define cards like Goyo Guardian, armory arm, and Colossal fighter but konami can officially say it wasn't an "Intended Errata" and that lets us the player base keep using it the way it was used before. "Intended errata" can be a way for knoami to make old cards more relevant and useful for older formats and give us new ways to play older formats. and by doing it in waves will give Nostalgic players things to look forward to. They can even reprint those cards as its own product if they wanted to.
In conclusion: cry about it, skill issue, if i draw the out, i draw the out and you should have expected it. It was his choice to make the yubel board the way it was. I'm not even fooling around. He should have made the choice to either hold back a negate for follow up or make the decision to make the best negate board. That mentality that you're always going to die if you don't go all in is psychotic, full schizo.
The amount of dumbasses going "lmaooo combo players have no right to complain" cards like evenly just make all the decks worse, especially with the tcg list banning stuff like savage and baronne, the truth is cards like evenly shouldn't exist and that is the whole ass truth to everyone with more than 1 braincell
Evenly Matched is a completely fair card, player using it sacrifices their battlephase. Ppl that cry about it are unprepared for it. Or ignorantly choose not to make their deck for backrow counter play, 💯% skill issue.
Doesn't yubel make that rank 10 omni negate?
Dark rule evenly combo
Well tbf the board did beat evenly
Come on evenly is not that crazy nowadays, it barely sees play
they dont lol
Going 2nd Card Good
Wait, now we mad going second is too strong? But also, aren't we mad that going first also too strong?
It comes down to whatever your deck does. It's too much for me and needs to be addressed.
Very bad takes throughout this video, especially which cards should be banned. Very correct on the staircase analogy, but that’s about the only non cringe take here.
First Dogwood, now we complaining about Evenly? In the toxic ass meta weve been in for the last year and change? Y'all kill me. For real. If you can out up 5+ interruptions, and i can use 1 evenly to break your board, you probably deserved to lose.
When I interviewed the top 8 player of the world (Julio Valls). He said and I quote: "this type of cards are really too strong for the game (refering to Evenly Matched, Dark Ruler No More, etc), the problem is the generic cards that the game has, since there's no restrictions on them." end of Quote. And I agree with him.
Yep, they are necessary evil, same as handtraps. And to some extent floodgates.
A perfect example of how being good at something doesn't make you smart
You also don't even know English so thinking probably isn't for you. I guess that's why you don't do it for yourself huh and just listen to others
@@FNigslol Maybe there's a reason why he's top 8 and you don't. I'm not defending him but maybe there's a reason 😂
Yep he is absolutely right, it's necessary evil to modern YGO.
No they dont
Ygo is a casual imbalanced game… yes, there’s counterplay but more often than not you win or lose by who drew better.
Lol bro what?
Evenly wont be good at midrange decks.
No
Evenly is stupid it should be banned 😔
- Yubel using an alt account
Skill issue
Plant link is more toxic than Fiend Pile, SE and Tenpai.
Some of those comments, "oh keep the follow-up" too get eat by 15 interactions by plant? Or more!
Evenly shouldn't exist, just like Omni negates shouldn't exist. And you have to make a choice as card designers, either you have omnis and blowouts are weaker or you don't have blowouts and omnis, or you just print every deck to better around blowout (in this scenario plant wouldn't exist). Just like you cannot print infinite handtraps hand having Crossout, Talent, Thrust, called by. Choose what fuck you want Konami, be coerent with the game direction!
Evenly sucks! Tired of Yugioh. I want i game where the goal of the game is both players trade-in interactions in turn 3 and 4 beyond. This game doesn't make any sense anymore. Shuffling your deck have become too important, it's almost like if the extra point was value 4 points and the touchdown 3, this game needs to be redesign, it's not just banlist.
Ofc it‘s the worst it has ever been, thats called powercreep. Make the good better and make the bad worse x)