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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2025
- 4.0 Toxic chat - From a Woman's perspective, spectrum post
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Outro
email (anti bot, remove the blanks): dgiannini @ web.de
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Spectrum: Camural
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Spectrum posting: robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/toxic-citizens
Locked Screenshots removed
*I feel dumb having to write this: If you write a comment to sh!t on women, it will get removed.*
The fact that poor Nightrider has to tell someone to take screenshots because the game chat has no report feature and isn't moderated in 2025 is truly tragic.
wow its already locked, and that so fast. No one else allowed to comment on that, nightrider is disgusting. People should be allowed to add to that and I totally agree with her, and you. Since I got back taking a long brake due to breakage (of the game) I noticed the exact same thing.
Seriously Nightrider is awful. I’ve reported things like this before only to have Nightrider close my support ticket without providing a reason.
The fact that SC has fewer chat features than online games I was playing in the mid-1990s is funny.
Nightrider-CIG - removing the evidence.
Evidence removed by - CIG Nightrider
We all know it’s Nightriders alt account
CIG doesn't give a fk about it's player base but their money, what a surprise am I right? Who would have slightly thought
As always closed by Nightrider-CIG faster than speed of light... Its not only about toxicity around girls, the chat is toxic overall. Back in 2019 i remember community was much more friendly, people had lots of civil conversations and many times i caught myself parking my ship next to asteroid i wanted to mine but was busy chatting with others. Over few years chat became disgusting to read. Many people are toxic to anyone around, trashtalking etc. etc... F12 became a first thing i do.
Catering to certain player demographic brought us to this.
You shouldn't need to F12, you haven't done anything wrong. The people being toxic should be F12:d. We need in-game chat moderation.
back in 2021, when I started playing SC, the community was still the nicest I have ever had seen in a game. But once the full loot aspects enabled piracy and griefing, that's when the community started getting toxic. Now, the thing is, I play as a pirate in Star Citizen and love the concept of full loot. However, I can't help but notice that these features bring in really hateful and aggressive people. Why can't people just enjoy piracy without needing to get toxic?
Same experience for my self, in game since 2018, and seeing the changes now drives me sad.
I hope CIG introduce real laws to handle the verse. This is not a casual game were you jump in, shoot, kill and die... We need laws to keep the verse in check.
(real life consequences laws, in big letters when you buy the game)
I think frustration about the game raised the toxicity level tenfold in recent years.
Having to deal with lag, bugs, crashes, and other players expoliting the game rises the pressure level, especially for competitive players and PVPers, and people lose their heads.
Also, the kind of gamers CIG is trying to bring in comes from toxic community and brings that toxicity with them.
In the lifetime of a game there is always a moment when it gets toxic and people leave. The case of SC will be studied in the future as the only one having a toxic community but not a game.
To be honest SC is more of a chat app than a game lol
90% of the community anymore is former or current EvE players, which is the most toxic online community next to Tarkov. Ironically a ton of Tarkov players have also come over. It isn't just a gendered thing like she's trying to make it. It's the community. The fact we can't block/ignore people individually has been the biggest issue. This means that toxic 10% (let's be honest it's more like 70% if you're on the US servers, europeans get a much cleaner crowd) can control chat how they want. If no one can block them, they just keep going. Reaction-driven chatters don't continue being reaction-driven if there's no reaction because everyone has them blocked.
Amen to that "RUST in Space" comment. I agree 100% there. I always jokingly call it "Star of Thieves" as it seems that's how Chris wants it anymore. Open-PVP games are always like this and they always do really well for about a year then die. RUST being the exception. EvE for example, at any given time in their PEAK YEARS maxed out at 43k concurrent players. Now they average around 4-5k at any given time. They can stay live because you can run the entire game on 1 physical server without even stressing the server too bad unless there's a massive war. MORTAL Online, peak player base never broke 5 digits and lasted a whole 6 weeks before it died. MORTAL Online 2 is doing slightly better, but has a more forgiving pvp world and the mods actually control chat.
Star Citizen has NO GMs to moderate chat or toxic gameplay (which even EvE, Mortal, RUST, etc all have), no block function, no ignore function, and reporting requires you to go through so many loops 99% of the community don't even know how to report a chatter. Even then, there's such a delay on the action that it's often hours or even days before the action gets pushed through. To top it off, there's no true full banning. Griefernet leader should have been banned 100x over and still doesn't get permabanned though they openly violate TOS regulations and encourage others to do the same.
CIG has NO accountability for social interaction in their online game, which is a problem they've always had, but now that we have 500+ people servers it shows even more-so. Back when we were 50-100 player servers, you occasionally got a shard/server with a toxic person and often everyone would F12 for 5 minutes while they acted the fool, then checked back until that person stopped. Now, you're getting 10-20 of those people that are feeding off eachother. Also, the game is more popular now drawing even more of these people in.
CIG needs to regulate, majorly, the social aspect of their community. Like the OP said in the spectrum post you're covering, I believe in freedom of speech, but I also believe in the freedom to stop listening, and we don't have that freedom right now. It's turn off ALL social interaction, or sit and be subjected to it as a captive audience.
@wildphilpresents It is mind boggling, CIG a game company with 1 billion dollars so far, in year 13, cannot even give us basic things like a block or report function in chat.
Not to mention anything else than a buggy boring tech demo in year 13 with missing basic mechanics.
I refuse to believe all CIG devs are incompetent, so what is the reason for this?
"Now they average around 4-5k at any given time" uhh what? 32k on right now
"maxed out at 43k concurrent players" 65k
As for EVE being among the most toxic, that doesn't really match what I have seen.
First thing I do when I log in is hide chat!
I don't even login any more. That way I don't have to subject myself to this sh*t.
To be honest now with 600 players chat it's impossible to read anyway
This issue is something that has plagued CIG's community for a good long while now. Wasn't like that in the early days of the project when backer numbers were so much less. Not that CIG, or anyone else for that matter, are asking me, but I would advise CIG take proactive action on this, sooner rather than later, and publicly too before something truly unfortunate happens....
Shutting down threads like Shield's is a bad look. Building a game, where threads like that are not needed in the first place, is the way to go. It's up to you, CIG.
Another problem with chat is that there are way too many people in global now. Global is a firehose, making it nearly unusable and in my opinion it's an essential part of SC. This is where people deal with the fact that medical beacons are unusable, where pirates deal with the fact that voice chat is unusable, where people help others work around a plethora of known issues, and where people find others they can party up with since there's no other system in place.
The public chat is out of control for any gender of decent human beings. For me, it just shows the level of decency that most humans have. People don't respect anyone anymore and the entire world could benefit from respect and manners. Life is too short to be mean.
SC chat can be very toxic at times, The N word, nazi talk, griefers mocking their cargo hauling victims.
Many games have this, but CIG doesn't seem want to get involved.
Mr Roberts, this also will hurt your sales.
Customer service is slow and I don't think they do anything about toxic chat.
Its been almost a decade at this point since I started SC and Ive never seen anything in chat going in this direction. And while it has gotten a bit worse its still the maturest chat Ive seen in video games to date.
While I sympathize, Star Citizen's forums have always been ridiculously toxic. So long as you allow worldwide access, that's what you're going to get. It's not, nor will it ever be a safe space, and screaming misogyny just paints a target on your back, given the abuse and misuse that word has suffered over the past 10 years.
I long ago bailed from Spectrum due to the toxicity, I suggest this girl do the same.
Well said. Hope they take the correct actions in this case but CIG itself also has a big part to play in this. They create the world and set the rules (or lack thereof) after all.
@fierox88 Who would have thought turning Star Citizen into "Rust in space" full loot and "PvP over all" would make the game and the chat more toxic?
Everyone, except Chris and CIG it seems.
In a game like tarkov or other shooters you can just dismiss stuff like that (griefing hobo murderers and toxic chat), but in star citizen, laws should be applied, in game, laws based on how our society works, because the game is a huge time sink, because it's like a second life, so you really need laws to keep those crazy percent in check. It should be put in legal terms when you first buy the game: How you can loose access to the game.
In other words: "please continue doing what you're doing even though you literally said it makes no perceptible difference". How reassuring. They're quick enough to take action when people post things they don't like on Spectrum, yet they ignore everything that happens in game? I guess we'd better start complaining about the game's development and Spectrum's moderation in game, then, considering this is apparently a free-for-all. ;)
its already rust in space, standby for EvE 2.0 P A I N
:D
Reddit also exists...
but there the devs dont read
@@JC-Thulhu and if you're critical you're downvoted to oblivion
Reddit is visited by nightrider cock riders.
Night rider-CIG just admitted “Customer Support” doesn’t actually do anything when you reach out to them. But what ever you do CIG doesn’t want you highlighting that in Public
They don't do much of anything other than doing everything they can to shut down any and all critical feedback. Half the 'trolls' are people who have tried to be reasonable, but have been told to shut up by the white knights before being forced to shut up by the moderators so many times over the years they just gave up trying to appeal to reason.
Ability to block individuals in chat, arrives - in game - in Q1 2027.
😂😂😂 overly optimistic
Dont be a roadmap watcher!
CIG is pleased to announce the Crusader CensorSHIP 300. The CensorSHIPS advanced onboard computers allow you to block player chat. Available for presale at IAE2025 for only $300.00.
I remember the time when global chat was really friendly. Players sharing the same dream and everyone just willing to help everyone else. But that time is long gone. Until now I felt the "classic" PvP vs PvE flaming was worse enough, but what she described in that post found me speechless - and shocked. I wonder what Chris would say to this - I doubt that is the game or the player base he envisioned. Thanks a lot Camural for bringing this to our attention!
CIG is a company that thinks players will just learn on their own and behave like angels in space. Thats why they don't implement any needed systems, because the lack how humans baiscally behave on the internet.
They sell this game as a live service game this means they have to do A LOT better. This f*ing company needs to grow up and finally deliver!!!
I am a woman who plays SC and I can say that while this doesn't happen every time I log in, it happens way too often. And there's not any way to simply block users who are toxic which literally every other game has. It's one of the many reasons I hesitate to recommend it to anyone new.
One of the wisest things I've heard in this context came from a Buddhist in a movie. When talking about the concept of trying to smooth out the sharp and dangerous parts of the world so one could walk on it barefoot, a student pointed out that covering your feet with soft sturdy leather is equivalent to covering the whole of the earth's surface in soft leather. The person in this video claims to be for free speech, and I hope she's being honest - CIG should give her and everyone else the ability to block people who are being offensive in chat. Beyond that, CIG will need to take further action against people breaking the law in chat, but enforced toxic positivity is in the end worse than doing nothing.
Seeing how this is a British company , I'm surprised they haven't been more intrusive against free speech in her favor. That said, you're very right and on point. Allowing self moderation would cause me to keep chat on and clean up the garbage I don't want to see and actually allow the chat to function as it should. I have seen some things said that go beyond freedoms such as vile death threats etc. Those , as you stated, should get moderated. Where the f is Nightrider in game? LOL
Yeah I dont trust moderators, especially CIG mods, to not go too far into draconian enforcement, so I'd be fine with this.
Not only chat, sc got a lot more toxic with pyro
If I want to play rust I play rust, but I didn't spend hundreds of dollars on rust.
Been called n word, bitch etc in chat
It seems to have gotten worse with pyro, maybe because of higher player count?
I would be happy with a chat blocking function
This is CIG, it will arrive in 2040
Add a block button and filter options based on number of other players blocking someone could take care of it. Leave it up to each player what they'll risk seeing. Minimize the involvement of CIG.
I saw you reply to it before Nightrider closed it.. very gross move by CIG. I keep seeing this shit over and over. Been playing since 2016. The thing is.. all of the good players are out so the chat isn't settling as much except for those goblins who get on and want to just grief chat and kill people.
This problem is a function of CIG slow pace of development and lack of necessary competencies. They should have had a fully fleshed out chat system ready to go when they began to increase server population. They should have had a block function in place long ago. But they have even had problems with bugs in this minimum-effort, T0 system we have now. Truly boggles the mind that an MMO wannabe would be in such a poor state in year 13 of development.
I hardly ever read chat, the very few times I did, I was asking about the state of some missions during Save Stanton. I did notice some heated discussions, but nothing really troubling, just very opionionated people talking about ... I don't even remember. I only remember I raised an eyebrow to some of the opinions, but thought better of getting involved.
But stuff like this is really bottom of the barrel behaviour. I already have a strong opinion about how parts of the "community" act outside the game, and I suspect it's probably the same people who also act like that in general chat. Enabling toxic people is never a good idea, it helps spread the mindset. Censorship is bad. Period. But TOS exist, and they exist for a reason and should be enforced. At least having a quick way to personally block people and hide their stuff in chat would be a band aid, but the problem runs deeper here.
CIG cannot even give us a block function at $ 1 billion.
How laughable is this?
Edit: *CIG* sucks, but edgy forum posts and in-game trash talk aren't anything I care about. I'll take the "wild west" early 2000's online gaming era over the increasingly extreme censorship of the last 10 years.
"censorship censorship! free screech! I WANT TO TALK ABOUT KICKING PREGNANT WOMAN WAH WAH!"
you. this is you.
shut up.
Indeed maybe she should try CS2, dota 2 and see what happens there.
This is nothing new what should be focused on is this half assed game that can't function after 13 year Lmao.
@sphere3704 You cannot even block certain people in Star Citizen's chat.
Something almost every MMO has for decades.
Yes alpha, but year 13, $1 billion.
@@Camural this game is toast, honestly I am done I spent thousands of $$ but I am done camural. I have been hitting my limits with this game I was 18 when I backed this game now I am 28.
This is it for me bro I have been watching you for a long time but if Sq42 fails I am just finished. Chat is one of the issues that is true but the game doesn't even work which TBH is a bigger issue.
True, all it takes is for Black Rock (DEI,ESG) to come up with some new virtue signalling and divisive bloated money making scheme that filters down the idiot government tiers, becomes politicised and now CIG have to police every word and its potential implications to what is legally 'acceptable'
This is where it starts
Just gib the damn block button ffs CIGgggggg!!!
Hi, I'd like to make a complain abou...[Deleted by Nightrider-CIG]
I don't know if it is 10% of the population or not as claimed - however, best course of action is for CIG to show the player base that they are fighting the battle to win the war.
Customer Suport will save us AGAIN
She is right, decency and respect costs nothing... have seen a lot of toxicity recently, which will end up hurting the game, sometimes I have the grand kids around and I dont want them seeing some of the filth that appears in chat sometimes, not everyone uses a mic that why I cant close it
Interesting that some people say they never saw a toxic chat in sc.
Maybe it depends on what region someone is playing?
I did see toxic sc chat, griefers who brag about how they killed a cargo hauler in an Aurora, the N word, etc.
Well you see, for some people "toxic" is something that offends them in particular. Anything else are just "jokes" that can be solved by growing a thicker skin.
@@micheljavert5923 all video games have toxic chats (I play rust and SC) and I agree with you. I don’t know why camural is even giving this the time of day in a video. Sounds like this lady needs thicker skin or to hit f12.
"I spent a lot of money, I was stupid" hahaha, I feel the same way
CIG can have a filter for bad or custom words. shes not a victim. CIG is to blame for not adding this years ago.
What she dont realize is most of the people talking like that, are way younger than her. shes probably 50 years old, and I looked her up, she was a professional business person.
The bad language is coming from 15 year olds in high-school. She cant control that. However CIG needs a custom filter, and the problem is solved. why is this hard for CIG????
The game Planet Side 2, and Warframe if im not mistaken, already solved this problem years ago. The internet has corrupted the youth. What she dont realize is thats a much bigger problem than CIG. CIG add chat filters. You have the money to do it. Its probably a overnight thing and its done.
you "looked me up"? I am probably 50? good lord. you know what assumptions do right? :) I'm not some naive old lady living in a shoe playing Star Citizen. Nor am I interested in any sort of social justice, I do not have a feminist agenda nor am I trying to start some crusade. I'm just a girl who plays Star Citizen and made a post about the experience needing to improve.
@@shield-sc bigger problem than CIG. moral issues.
@@shield-sc sorry about the old age and look her up. you have public profiles is what i mean.
just filler talk.
@Johnny-c6p np
It didn't get moved to the feedback graveyard? 😅
The quality of the chat is a consequence of the happiness of the playerbase, not the cause for it.
If it's bad, it's because the playerbase is UNHAPPY. That's what should be corrected.
My wife and her friends stopped playing SC. The games move towards becoming full loot, combined with there being no way to recover items paid for with real world money, the release of the PvP only system (Pyro), and how there are no consequences whatsoever for playing SC like it's Tarkov or Fortnight and just killing everything all the time, just about guaranteed they have very little to bring them back to the game. I am hoping when we finally get high security systems like Terra, paid item recovery, and more substantial PvE options, they will give the game another try.
Players must be able to flag themself as PvP or PvE so if you flag your self PvE you become unkillable for other Players. Of course ther have to be a mechanic applied to this function which will prvent to abuse it.
As I have already stated on other vids, I got attacked on spectrum by toxic people, when I responded with my own verbal judo, I got punished, but the one who started it was not. They thought they they could say some mean things to me and I would crumble, they found out that my vocabulary is far better then than theirs. Then they ran and complained to cig. Due to their targeting me while allowing the toxic people to go unpunished was the last straw and I asked for a refund but they would only refund Jan. I accepted to show them that I am serious about their actions being unacceptable.
The recourse foe any s.c complaint is always just don't play the game or play something else.
@doctorno3912 yep, but a lot of us put a lot of money into this game. I remember the much friendlier game and chat in the past.
If Chris wants now his "Rust in space" "toxic chat" "full loot" "PvP over all", fine, but then give players who don't want this a full refund. Chris talked very differently about this issue in the past.
Maybe I will make a compilation.
Every game can be like this. We just need the tools to deal with bad people. Block them, put them on an ignore list so they can't interact with you. Star Citizen still lacks social tools. We'll have them eventually.
And every other game actively bans people for it
CIG gets away with it because "it's an alpha" when they want it to be, and it's a live game when they want it to be. In this case, it's an alpha, so they can ignore things like moderation tools.
I think people behaving like racists in chat or anti women aren't serious.
Well, most of them
But it is not fun to play a toxic game with toxic chat unless it is something like rust.
CIG made it very clear in the past they don't want this but now we have rust in space.
The Post nailed it. Many of us "Real Men" have sisters and mothers, and it was offensive to us too. I've seen the same individuals spew before and they go on without consequences. Honestly, I see this depravity directed at other groups in our society as well. There needs to be a way to police these folks. I would like to say we could capture and report and see instant results, but even as EVO and Concierge, you barely get an acknowledgment. We need a desk at CIG that reads the reports within 12 hours and deals with it. To tell you the truth, I was also pissed off that Nightrider killed the thread. WTF? Truth isn't something CIG wants to hear, it seems. If CIG can monitor Spectrum as well as a CPP, why can't they figure out something for in-game chat? Nightrider, being hated by the community for doing your job is one thing, but being hated for blatantly censoring facts and truth that could show CIG listens is another.
This is my favorite reply so far. The men in my life reacted the same way. Thank for you for being you.
@shield-sc Stop ignoring me on EFT chat. Guys can be friends too. Joking a little
The first thing I do when my Char wakes up ist to push F12 to close the Chat. We only use the Chat when we pirated someone to contact the Pilot.
This kind of post is in my opinion a deliberate misdirection shot- to deviate to a new different argument, given that everyone is instead writing about the utter garbage that this game development turned out to be.
@MrMatirendicontoporc I don't get your point, what is it?
@@Camural That Spectrum is currently a dumpster fire, I should say usually. And this could be an attempt to placate/dilute the number of topics all stacking up and pointing out the current issues (the important ones related to actual gameplay).
@@MrMatirendicontoporc doesnt make any sense
@@MrMatirendicontoporcSo the idea is that someone deliberately wrote about CIG's failure to serve their customers in order to distract people from the ways that CIG fails to serve their customers? It's all bad, man. No one would do that.
Players are less likely to take the time to screenshot and fill out a long form to report offenses. An in-game report player method is a better tool. However, that would require development skill, understanding, and planning; not to mention enough Customer Service employees to review the reports.
sc chat can be bad at times especially with higher player numbers now
blocking people in chat comes in 2031
Meanwhile, a NPC told me he was going to kill me, and then my wife and kids…
That’s not to say we don’t need more robust features and reporting mechanisms for when it exceeds thresholds into deliberate targeting for harassment, but outside of that I’m against nearly all chat filters and heavy moderation in mature themed games.
Nothing worse than having literal murder gameplay with slave and sex trafficking in lore while being prohibited from cussing in chat because it’s offensive.
Make it consistent, with good reporting tools and human review for when it gets out of hand.
I've been at this since the kickstarter and over all that time I have to say while most of the issues I've had have been to bugs, the worst experiences have universally been due to other players.
I feel there needs to be a clear line drawn on what is an acceptable way to behave in play and chat. Right now it's just too vague and the worst people make full use of that ambiguity.
It's the community that makes or breaks a game and if the worst elements are allowed to run riot they will drive everyone else off then get bored and leave as well. I think the only reason that hasn't happened already is that the game itself shows so much promise people are sticking around and I'm one of them but that wont last forever.
Communities are notoriously hard to wrangle in any context but it can be done and the first step is setting clear standards, the second is visibly enforcing them. It's the same as policing anything else, you can't catch every offense but if you get enough of them and make it visible then it's a lot easier to bring the rest into line.
Finally since the thread on Spectrum is locked I'll say this here:
I'm a RL stevedore and we're a fairly manly man type of occupation, we're rough, we're tough and we do hard work, and the kind of behavior referenced in the original post will either get you a long boring conversation with HR or just thrown in the ocean if you try it around us.
So if there's anyone of any gender who is reading this, I'd like you to know it's not all of us, these idiots are likely 14 year old basement dwellers who have never done an honest day's work in their life, they're loud and they're annoying but they're dipshits. And if you're having a struggle with them feel free to look me or some one like me up (same name in the game).
Where's the chat block button?
F12 toggles chat on/off
Toxic gameplay is a direct consequence of poor player moral due to the state of the game. No fun master modes pushing the high-end,long time backers away, terrible and long time sinks, it's going to sink 😢 it needs a massive save. 3k I happily spent because the only game loop i played was always functioning. That was flight. I miss flying.😢
@bftwdsj Yes the state of Star Citizen in year 13 is abysmal bad. So far server meshing didn't fix anything.
Yes people are angry because we believed in what Chris and CIG told us. However, this is no reason to go into the game grief other players and talk sh!t in chat.
I just don't play Star Citizen anymore.
Yes I wasted a lot of money on Star Citizen, yes it feels bad, but I am not such a low life that I feel I have to make the life of other players miserable.
People should go on Spectrum and complain, heck, there are lots of posting about the sorry state of 4.0.1.
At the very least, people should stop throwing good money after bad money, I did.
Is there any hope? As long as Chris is making the decisions I have little to no hope left for Star Citizen.
I said on Spectrum that my concierge ticket hasn't been answered in over two weeks and said I don't think there are any customer service reps left on payroll. Nightrider deleted my reply calling it hyperbolic.
I have witnessed some crazy shit on f12 chat... It is sad that more citizens are growing uncivilized
They should have left the screenshots up so people know who these people are. Coustomer Support really needs to be more responsive.
The ability to block players can't come quick enough tbh
Soneday the idea of "world chat" will need to go away because of the idea of "realism"
they also talk about shooting political opponents now and calling everything under the sun "commie" as if thats an excuse.
i'm pretty sure they're not meeting the bare minimum legal requirement of moderating chats.
Don’t be a commie! 😊
@@AtlasRandGaming none of your business what i am, if that makes you think it justifies death threats you belong in prison in any society.
@@the_babbleboom why are you threatening to kill me man? Stop!
People who have never been a part of a old school COD lobby LOL.
I think trash talk is part of the game.
But I also strongly support filters for those who can't take it and for players who want to use it.
I support player choices.
I can take being called the n word plenty. Heard it all my life. I would like star citizen not to be a replica of what I've had to endure throughout my life time.
Yeah. I miss old internet and chat. I made more friends out of people with whom i trash talked that any other ways. Today i dont make much friends in game because people dont talk anymore and everything is boring...
Yeah, I agree. Chat is often too toxic. I second this. We have free speech. Let's use this freedom for good and not to put others down. Make your jokes. But crossing the line just to cross the line is not classy. Good for her for standing up.
you don't have "free speech" on a private platform like CIG website or within CIG game, regardless of where in the world you live, as even using the most liberal US standard, CIG website and within CIG game are not protected platforms like social media or public or government space, the TOS of CIG also places limits, and importantly, "free speech" in the US context protects you from the government interference in such, it dose NOT protect you from private individuals ejecting you from private property and any trespass be it civil or criminal, or your removal from private platforms even if there was no TOS in play, with a TOS in play it it just so much easer.
Another proof that SC hosts the best community in gaming /s
The number of female players should be errelivant to the fact that this type of talk promotes sexual abuse. CIG allowing that type of conversation to go on in a semi public forum could be held liable for condoning said "hate speach". In this society today it wouldn't take more than a phone call or letter threating legal action for an actual human would to respond. I'm sure the EULA has much to say about chat guidelines....
There is a difference in video game chat and real world conversations. Guys understand that in game chat is for laughs and shock value. If you go into it with a woman's perspective and real world conversation standards then ya, in you're going to have a bad time 😂. But that's with ANY game chat
Oh look, some with a rati9nal thought. How dare you.
Not everyone wants to see neckbeards gwaking each other. Theres no way to filter them out and turning it off completely isn't a proper solution. If people want to say stupid "shocking to them" things fine, but let others that have a life turn them off. In real life you get your lips slapped off around the wrong person. In game you should be able to silence them from your feed.
Right? I do think the conversation mentioned is a bit too tasteless for me in a public chat, but if it was 20 women talking about how they use men, I'd put in my 2 cents. Then close the chat. Make sure I don't have sand in my vagina, confirm I don't have a vagina, then continue on with my life.
your standards are much different than mine. this is basically the locker room talk and boys will be boys defense. I am thankfully surrounded by good men in my personal life, and I guarantee neither of them would say things like what was said in SC Chat. Video game chat or not, there is a thing as right and wrong on this world. Im all for free speech, and I am also for businesses creating a space where ALL of their customers have a right to a place free from attack. You cant walk into a McDonalds and say these things without being kicked out. Same goes for SC
Totally agree that people who behave in a toxic manner towards other players in chat (voice / text) are a problem that need to be handed a chat or game suspension.
To me it doesn't matter what label a person attaches to themselves, you treat them as you'd like to be treated. People online feel detached from their actions so we often see incredibly toxic communities develop (toxic positivity is a thing as well), and no one wants that for Star Citizen so we need tools implemented and rules enforced to keep some of those less desirables in check.
The only things I have some questions or comments on, are:
-Referring to PvP gameplay as toxic. This is kind of.. strange as it is not inherently toxic. Yes some people may react poorly to being killed by other players, but that doesn't mean the issue is the game.. it's the person. Of course if someone is repeatedly griefing you that's a different story, but if someone shoots you down or pirates you I think that's all in the fun of the game. I am not someone who looks for PvP specifically but I am happy to engage with it as this is supposed to be a sim.
-"Make the game more enjoyable for women". This is really vague and doesn't really make much sense as the game is rarely enjoyable for most players at the moment, unless you love what is present there is little reason to spend time an alpha. There's not enough meaningful progression to keep players invested unless they are playing with a group or they're enamored with the game (in the honeymoon phase).
I think the sentiment is great, but the more focused critique would be, "improve chat functionality and moderation". That way you keep gender out of it, as in an ideal world we can just treat each other as human beings. The reason being, toxicity exists in both male and female dominated spaces, however the manner in which it is expressed differs but I think we should be looking for solutions that help everyone in the long run.
-Regarding the amount of female players in Star Citizen. Women make up a smaller portion of the gaming space already on PC and Star Citizen is a niche game with a high barrier for entry (a relatively expensive / powerful PC is required) so it makes sense to a degree that less women would be part of the community. Generally speaking male gamers tend to spend more on their gaming hobbies than women, of course this is not always the case (mobile games), but with that said some of these issues that we are seeing here are simply.. human issues, that doesn't make them ok but it does help to keep that in perspective. Trying to cater to or draw in female players doesn't make sense at the moment because like anyone else the game needs to warrant their time being spent on it. Which it just doesn't right now.
It's really sad to see that people think posting that cringe, incel speak in game is ok regardless of women being present. I hate reading this stuff it makes my skin crawl.
Just in case it needs to be said, I do not think *anyone* should be subjected to reading hate speech or be made to feel as lesser than others, especially when we are all trying to enjoy a shared interest (playing the game). I am all for comedy being free but none of what was posted is funny outside of being completely absurd to read, this does not make it ok either as no one knows who you are and how serious you are via text.
Thanks for bringing this problem to light Cam as I think everyone needs to do their part while CIG gets an effective and efficient moderation system in place. (sorry for the long post)
@ImMichaelB I never said or meant that PvP is toxic. *I love PvP in games.*
However, PvP over all, total chaos, does not make a good game and this is not what Chris promised us the last 12 years.
But now we have Rust in space.
Yes some people love this, love games like SCUM, Rust, Tarkov, but PvP over all, full loot will turn away a lot of people.
@Camural Hey Camural thanks for taking the time to respond to my rather long comment. It's incredibly refreshing to hear your take on PvP games as sometimes it sounded like you didn't like it those systems in general.
I do agree with you that the current focus on and implementation of loot and PvP is rough and not in a place that feels rewarding or worth the time for many players. Having no item recovery, alongside little to no recourse for losing items due to bugs for example (falling through the map, weapons being "jammed" or unable to fire, or even heal) are issues that contribute to the current lack of a worth while loot / PvP system.
I am curious, do you think that the blueprint system (as it is planned) would alleviate some of these issues as players would earn a permanent reward and the ability to recoup losses.
What other specific issues surrounding the PvP systems do consider to be problematic?
Eg. Armistice implementation, post death recovery (bugged inventory systems), etc.
Of course the current plans for bases and the like are in the draft phase so it's hard to say for certain, but I do value and appreciate hearing your opinion on the matter.
Thanks again!
Waiting for a good news post but then again this is star citizen
@Nero-Caesar Believe me, I *would love* to make a positive video about Star Citizen.
And I did in the past, for example John Pritchett's fantastic 3.1.4 gravlev: th-cam.com/video/1plON6tm8MU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qjTFiUNBXHDxwSF1
However, I can only make videos how the game is at this point in time.
@Camural for sure it's definitely not your fault the game is just in a bad state and probably will be for a long time
I completely agree. Some in the chat have no manners and their behavior is disgusting. Even if it's only a small (growing) part of the community, it doesn't detract from the public image that CIG now has. I'm not talking about the streamers who only show cut content or only read out patch notes. Pyro is a paradise for griefers and toxic players, great solution CIG. PvP over everything, missions, elevators, hangar, inventory etc. bugs, bugs, unplayable and after a patch even more bugs, but PvP is so important. CIG's goal is moving further and further away from the fanbase. The actual fanbase is being disregarded, I don't want Star Citizen to fail, but it's not fun in this state.
Yet another reason for private servers. Also, it's not a surprise...the kind of "person" that would gleefully murderhobo is a huge red flag about someone's state of mind.
The "toxic" people are basically mentally unstable, and CIG is catering a game for their "playstyle."
Interesting how Nightrider-CIG is all over moderating backers bringing up legit issues in General, but not what "people" are actually doing in the alpha. Between CIG's greed, and what a lot of new testers are doing...SC is going downhill, FAST.
Stanton should be vehemently enforced from a law enforcement perspective. Grand theft Auto 6 star style. The full might of the The system comes down upon any law-breaking citizens.
Alternatively, all the Day-Z and Rust players could hang out and play pyro. I see this as a win-win.
I'm all for freedom of speech and you shouldn't start restricting what people say.
Just give the people an option to block others, because I don't care that someone's talking about doing things to my mother. I still want to know what that individual is up to incase I come across them in Pyro.
I dont always have chat on, but I rarely see any toxic chat. Lucky me I guess
Rule number 23:
There are no girls on the internet
Ok I mean who is not getting toxic after 20th quantum cancel while spooling, after ship explodes at hangar doors, elevators not coming, ships not spawning ... and so on. Even when playing with friends voice chat between us is becoming really negative when nothing works (even using words we usually never use otherwise) and the scarce time we can play together is just wasted by waiting for the game to hopefully recover somehow. When it works it's epic tho. But since it never works for all people the people where it doesn't work will vent off in chat it seems... It's hard to be chill if the same game breaking bug is still there after years and nothing is being done about that, while they put effort into new things which will also be broken and add just new bugs. We need a stable base game and expand it from there, not a game with every possible system integrated but everything even the basics completely broken. This should not be an excuse to write things like that in chat, but maybe also a reason for where this comes from...
@frankindabank Many people and I don't get toxic in public chat.
Sure, playing this buggy "game" can be very annoying at times. I get a lot quieter in our voice chat.
However, I don't go into public chat and start talking sh!t, start mocking others.
I am sorry for your experience, but just because someone is angry it doesn't give them the right to lash out at all the innocent people who have nothing to do with their anger in chat. You can blame the game for making you angry, but you can only blame yourself for being toxic in chat.
@@Camural Exactly, I just provided a possible explanation why chat maybe gets so toxic at times. I did not intend to defend behavior like that.
When people is worried with global chat, the game havent not better to do.
I saw this trend a while back. At each freefly, you see an influx of younger players who, with them, bring a decline of the chat and community standards. With MM, the game has been considerably simplified to appeal to the younger masses, the likes who play fortnite and the like, which we all know how toxic their communities are. This is logical, as younger brains are attracted to simple flashy stuff. They lack the long-term focus and the need for challenging systems that require time to develop skills and derive satusfaction from long-term delayed gratification. Since the intro of MM, you can see the community took a dive. I do not understand how CR hopes to fund this project with the limited funding the younger players have, let alone their short attention span before they jump onto something new and shiny. There is no loyalty for people who built and funded this project for a decade.
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At the end of the day it’s not the games issue or any other games issue with toxic behavior. It’s a human being issue which will never be changed. Best thing i learned over the years. If I’m bothered by it close chat or find another game
Of course you can control people's behaviour! Any form of policing system does this, it is a well known method and it works much better than giving control to assholes: Moderation solves the problem.
CIG is catering to the toxic PvP players aka Griefers. I never wanted rust or 2nd life in space. I wanted X-wing vs Tie Fighter with mixed in arena based PvP, open world PvP is a mistake that only toxic griefers enjoy.
Nightrider’s alt account talking about the punching babies.
I play Elder scrolls online and they even have a better system than SC. Its not perfect but chat is monitored by a AI system. The bans are real so everyone is very respectiful.
hmmm dunno, my experience in SC is that chat is usually either silent, people beg for money, or people actually help out newbs (something I do a lot myself as well) or call in/provide help to those in need... Seen a few assholes for sure, but nothing overtly serious compared to some other games. Then again have not logged in a while (about a month now), and of course the good old F12 is always there xd
I have complained also and stated this is a game not for political fights.
tarkov wigglers and rust banned players have found a place to call home
coddling players and expecting CIG to take action against people being assholes is a waste of time. With Free fly good luck enforcing bans on people that are just popping in to the game for short stints. Player bases of all games in general is getting worse. The only dev/CS time that should be spent is a "report botton" that logs timestamp, shard ect so they can take action at a later time. Sadly, ignoring them and finding your own community that isn't shit is the fix.
Alot of the toxic idiots in SC chat are looking for attention. This may sometimes add flames to the fire however players in chat may need to point out the issue and tell the idiots to stop as it reflect in the TOS. CIG likely gets many complaints, both valid transgressions of TOS to someone offended about a chat conversation how to fry a proper wiener. As much as it is a CIG platform, it hard to control what the hell goes on in peoples' minds. Screenshots of the convo (though Im sure the chat is logged) and calling out the idiots. We as a community may need to self-regulate to a degree.
I’ll be cool with a block function if people can’t stand words. But I like f12 chat quite a bit. It leads to some very VERY interesting subjects that are quite entertaining when you’re chilling and salvaging
Why is CIG better at tamping down dissent and "FUD" in the ingame chat than they are racism and sexism? I am 4 weeks into not being able to send chat to global in 4.0 after saying a few lines in chat about the "PREVIEW" release bait-and-switch. Have had no other interactions with anyone this patch, and what I did say prior to the apparent shadowban was kept clean and free of expletives.
Maybe I play SC at a boring hour, with other boring players.
99.9% of the time I play SC, chat is a snore fest of nerds chatting about nerd stuff 😂
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Thumbs up to Camural for highlighting this problem. Totally see what Shield on Spectrum is saying because global chat on SC can become highly toxic. I have no problem with PvP gameplay, its what I do on DCS World. However create a lawless system with no ROE that leaves gameplay open for griefing and toxicity and you will get this problem. You attract every gamer asshole to the party. Make gameplay for clowns expect a circus. That is what CIG has made with the badly thought out Pyro system.
CIH do not appear to have the idea that antisocial actions carry consequences.
CIG failure yet again. Can't get any tools to combat toxicity, the moderation seems completely ineffective and the gameplay has changed towards a style that brings in more toxic people. Completely on CIG this one.
@friendlyspacedragon7250 CIG turned Star Citizen into Rust in space, full loot.
They should have known this will make the game and chat a lot more toxic and will turn away their old backers and women.
Of course CIG doesn't care.
Sticks and stones. I would like for everyone to feel welcome in SC, but I also don't want to hear "We are failing to deliver the promised product because we are spending millions on moderation and AI chat filtering." Rather just disable chat completely and finish implementing the stretch goals already.
Graphically SC looked amazing five years ago and today it's roughly on par with modern AAA titles. Five years from now it will be a sub-par game.
Remember when Chris said it's a PC only title because consoles would not be able to run it?
@Scelestiis A blocking and reporting function in chat is something very small indie studios with less than 1% of CIG's budget can do.
Please don't make it sound like this would cost CIG a lot of money and time, it wouldn't.
@@Camural Not my intention to make it sound hard (it is not). What I'm saying is that CIG has a history of getting stuck on trivial features that stay in development for years. Do you remember how much they worked on "bartender AI"? What do we have to show for it? Smart bartenders? Nope.
I'm not very optimistic about this project in general, my hope is that they don't turn off the servers two years from now.
the project will fail if the culture of the game isn't one where folks have fun and be safe from hate. not asking for limitations on freedom, just consequences for violations of TOS to be enforced.
@@shield-sc Would you say Call of Duty is successful? Have you ever experienced the content of /those/ voice chat conversations? But yeah, sure, I get your point. I just think there are bigger problems to solve.
@ nowhere did I say there arent other problems to solve. player to player interaction is an important one. not just global chat, but the balance of pve-pvp, economic trade and whatnot. Im a day one backer. the bugs will get fixed. the design and HOW the game is played will mean more in the long run. IMO.
CIG doesnt care
I am surprised and disheartened to hear this, it's a bad sign of the health of the game. Before I quit playing a year or so ago chat was generally fairly mature and CIG reacted quick and hard against any reports of serious abuse in chat (e.g. multiple sincere racial slurs or misogyny).
yes, CIG won't react, I had a situation in exutive hangar with players who had noclip and could shoot through a wall or glass. I sent a report and video to CIG, to which I got a response that made me wonder if they have any logs of our players at all or if they are literally not interested in the bad experience of the players. oh yes, I also had a story with that Nightrider-CIG, where he threatened to suspend my account because I asked a simple question, does anyone know how to calculate, if a mission costs 30k and you only earn 10k on that mission, why?! and that CIG should go back to school for math lessonsi know the truth hurts, otherwise he would have ignored my comment
How many here are space marshal or higher? I am space marshal
I would be happy if star citizen is even rust in space because then we had base building. XD
you aint getting base building. you'll get MacGyver elevator rigging play so you can get to a shuttle that will crash maybe
Best they can do is broken Orison simulator
@@4tonmike 😂😂😂 I thought this was a well functioning server error simulator