This single video has has explained to me what I have been worrying about for the last 8 months getting back Into production . Cannot thank you enough.
So blindingly obvious once it's explained! Now to go back and adjust all of my 8-bar masterpieces and hopefully they'll sound nice enough to inspire me to complete the songs!
Someone once asked Ray Charles how he kept his music from clipping when he couldn't see the meters. He said "I use my ears and when I hear clipping I turn the fader down. " I think we could all apply the same principle.
+Matt Rushton If that's true, Matt. That's an awesome story. Yes... using ears and not eyes is one of my core mixing principles. :) Thanks for watching! /ryan
@@RyanHarlin but I bet he was working in the analog domain not in today’s digital world of digital DAWs. I don’t think this is comparing like with like
@@waynevdk1 Well actually this story would apply even more to the digital domain where clipping is more easily heard. And either way, the core principle here is that if it sounds good, it is good. A universal truth.
Yea exactly. On analog mixers back in the 90s n early 2gs, I could hear the distortion n clipping. Then of course you'd hear it when u mix it to a cassette. Wit these digital daws n mixers, I can't hear when it clips. N distort. I can only tell by sight. I would like to learn by my ears tho if possible.
OMG, this is probably one of the most simplest yet effective ways to really bring my music recordings up a major notch! Thanks so much for making this video!!
New to Reason. It was actually my last desperate choice...but I love it. The DAW, the RACK, is perfect for my brain. Thanks Ryan for putting this together in 2016 so that many of us coming on board to REASON can benefit from it in 2021. There will be a little bonus in your paycheck!
These tutorials are really great. They are really well presented, well explained, and they don't waste time. Thank you and please make more like these! Super helpful!
I was guilty of freaking out over my levels on the mixer. Thank you for clearing this up for me. Now I can relax and get back to making music without fear of creating a wall of noise.
Wow!! Thank you!! I, coming from an analog background, came back to what I love and hit a wall with the digital world of production and engineering. Everything I did sounded so thin. Well had i not tweeked the life out of my works in the mixer channels... outstanding info bro!! Thank you!
This is way more important than you think, sooooo many people get way confused about volume and gain staging the final bounce etc.. this video is great.
You are literally the FIRST person I've met that has FINALLY agreed with me on this! In fact, I've had artists turn away from using me to produce their songs because they fight with me on seeing red LED's. Mind you my music sounds 10x better, more clearer than the "Producers" that they end up giving their money too.. I have subscribed, and will finally start pointing out this video to all my nay-sayers I've met over the years of producing music. #MISTA808
Go team Red!! ;) This video has been really useful for me too because people still comment on my other videos about red LEDs they see and now I can just refer them here say "go watch this and then come back and say you're sorry." LOL And you know how I already know your production is good? Because you've already displayed your convictions to trust your ears and instincts instead of book learning and internet myths. Well done and thanks for the subscribe! /ryan
Nice tutorial - What isn't mentioned here is the RMS level and using reference material as a good guide to setting "How loud" something should be. At @9.00 - Many ozone presets recommend a certain RMS level at input - usually -12 dB RMS, -3dB peak - which I'm guessing the RE version doesn't show, so ideally you'd have a pre-gain knob just before Ozone, set that to get to the recommended input level , then your Ozone insert (to get the most out of the maximizer without sounding squashed).
This is the finest video on this topic I've watched. I am very guilty of smiting down a mix channel because it sees red. Its something I've always done with DJ'ing, I'll keep my EQ's flat and just boost the volume until it sits neatly in the amber. But this video is essential for folks like me how know how make a tune, but not really know how to improve its sound.
the sound of the levels is most important... listen more look less. have good monitors, and a treated room and you can be accurate. which is what you want. LEAVE as MUCH headroom for you mastering engineer... to crunch out the last bit with the nice expensive gear they have... which will make things sound VERY nice :)
They should make the LEDs orange at the top if they don't mean you are clipping the audio. Running into the red is for old fashioned analogue gear where you could sometimes clip to taste.
ArthurKnoqOut I am a visual learner as well... but remember you are using your ears to hear the results.. using your eyes while mixing may get you confused
You might not have envisaged doing this tutorial, but for someone who's been using reason since reason 1, that was very revealing. And sorted out a confusion I'd had between channel strip behaviour and master strip behaviour since the beginning. Thanks!
Several years ago I noticed what I thought was clipping in the meters, but I never heard the clipping. I always thought that was strange. Your video just explained why. Thanks for that!!! Thanks for being AWESOME! I just discovered all these videos and learned quite a bit in the last few days. Wow, this is a game changer for me.
Thanks for "turning on the lights" for me. I had assumed that this was true when adding output buses because almost always when I output several channels to a new bus, it would end up in the red. I figured what good would that be if it was now clipping (and it didn't sound like it was clipping). But now knowing that all channels are not clipping just because the level is in the red is a HUGE piece of knowledge for mixing moving forward. Great video!
I was having clipping anxiety just yesterday haha. This video gave me an idea for a refill. Call it "Bit by Bit," a bitcrusher that can go from 1bit to max by increments of single bits. I imagine you could get some versatile clipping out of it.
Some plugins is optimized to work optimally at around -18dbfs, especially those which models real hardware, but the beauty of it is that you can DRIVE plugins like a real analog gear and get some very pleasing results! Try it out for your self and you will find out cases when you will get amazing results.
So does this mean that the master fader in reason is supposed to show you what would happen if you export the song to 16 bits? That if it's in the red then that means that in a 16 bit mode, it would sound distorted? And if so, what does that master meter tell us about what would happen if we exported 24 bits instead? Would the clipping still be present? And finally, if the highest peak of your song is -1db, how do we know for sure that it won't sound clipped/distorted when exported to 16 bits without dithering? I suppose I want to know how those different dBs on the master meter correspond to what volume level/bit depth it can go to without getting distorted. I hope this makes sense, I'm having a hard time explaining my question on this one...
These are great questions and i'll do my best to answer. First of all - the master meter in Reason (not the fader) shows you what would happen if you export the song. You are mostly correct but just for clarity, the one I'm talking about is the meter shown on the Hardware Interface in the rack, not the main mixer's meter/fader. Often they're the same but it's possible for you (or someone else you might be working with) to patch devices into the signal between that main mixer master fader and the hardware output which would cause what you see on that meter and what you export to not be the same. However, the meter on the hardware interface (in the rack) is the LAST stop out of reason on your way to export so that one is the one you trust above all else. If you see clipping there, you're truly clipping. As for 16 or 24... this is a slightly technical topic about fixed integer vs floating point digital audio, so perhaps just accept me when I say this: 0db is clipping in both a 16bit output and a 24bit output. You don't avoid clipping by exporting in 24 bit. I'll try to give you a slightly technical answer but that is the real takeaway you need to know. But the technical answer is this: audio traveling around inside Reason is 32 and 64 bit "floating point" audio. Audio files exported from Reason are "fixed point" audio. Floating point audio can handle values above 0db. Fixed point cannot, regardless of whether it's 16 or 24bit. The different between 16 and 24bit fixed point audio in terms of it's dynamic range (range between quietest and loudest signal) is therefore noticed on the bottom end of the range. 24bit fixed point audio has a lower noise floor than 16bit fixed point audio. But like I said... this is all techical. The big takeaway to understand is that whether or not your exporting in 16 or 24 bit you still need to respect the 0db limit. Hope that all makes sense and that I didn't have TOO many typos. :P /ryan
Great video. The only thing that you didn't mention is within Reason sequencer on the lower right hand side you have the graphs DSP - IN -OUT. Can you please clarify whether if you see on the OUT put level red is that wrong? Either on overall mix or if you solo each channel strip and see red in the OUT metre. Thank you
thanks for the info. I pull all of my channels down til I see no red. but now this video has changed that...somewhat. I've learned something new and hopefully my mixes will be better for it.
This is a terrific video with a lot of fantastic info. Also, very nicely put together. Thanks Ryan! I just have one critique, at about 8:51 you recommend pulling the Master Fader down while you’re producing and mixing to prevent your audio interface from clipping. I understand what you’re saying, but I think this is a really bad habit to encourage. If instead you set up Reason’s Control Room Out and use this for the level going to your audio interface you’ll have the best of both worlds, you’ll be able to see what’s really happening on your Master Fader meters and stop your audio interface from clipping without reducing your final mix output level. Anyhow, this is obviously a whole other video to explain the Master Section’s inserts position relative to the Master Fader and how it’s the Master Fader level that’s exported to disk. Fun stuff! :-)
+A “me2you1” Yes, I'm going to do a video on this topic. Give me a few weeks to get to it, got some other projects I'm wrapping up right now. Stay tuned :-)
+A “me2you1” Shaw No I didn't, but I should. I've had a few people ask so I guess there's some interest. Thanks for the reminder, I'll put it on my list.
Love these videos! They help a lot! I'm an aspiring music producer and I was wondering if you could do a video on getting that "full sound" in a track. More specifically panning and getting depth to your sound and that sort of stuff... all while giving an artist room in a track. I'm looking for a way to transform from making beats, to making instrumentals. I bet Justen Williams could help out a lot too, after Sallie May Back.
Thankyou so much for this explanation. I'm guilty of leaving my master fader at 0db and having all my channel faders way low down for fear of clipping in the mix bus (a habit from using low quality hardware mixers in the past). Not that my mixes weren't bad, mind - I just gave myself less headroom to work with. I'm gonna try and force myself to mix differently from now on :)
If I hit lotto (or finally get a hit song) I'll pay Propellerhead to have you produce daily videos. You're too good. MC hammer says no one "Can tough this".
it wasnt a topic for you ryan? what wasnt? explaining mastering in reason for reasoners, cmon man we should be getting more on this!!! ive bneen with you guys since reason 3 and you know damn well audio clips inside reason 15 years ago or more! you should give a complete mastering class share your knowledge for us faithfull reason users. im rebboting my hobby on music!!! lets go reason studios love you guys!!! Ryan keep up the great work!
Great video, cleared up some things for me for sure - however the part that confuses me is: if clipping doesn't matter like you said until export....then why do you lower the master fader while you mix, then put it back up before you add the limiter?
That's a good question, and one I can elaborate on here. It's a little bit too simplified to say that clipping doesn't matter until "export." It would be more fair to say that clipping doesn't matter until the audio leaves Reason in any form. Now certainly one way it does that is by exporting a stereo master audio file but it also leaves Reason when it goes to your soundcard for listening via speakers or headphones. And it's this second one where clipping comes into play. If you didn't lower the master fader then any clipping signals above 0dB would go over to your soundcard as fixed integer digital audio and clip what you hear. Simply put, it would sound distorted. So by lowering the master fader you're giving yourself that extra headroom make sure you don't clip your soundcard. But THEN... when you're ready to export with a maximizer set up, the maximizer is now making sure that your audio isn't clipping. So since it's no longer at risk for clipping you can safely bring your master fader back up because you don't need that extra headroom to avoid clipping your soundcard. Make sense? /ryan
Propellerhead ok that clears that up for me. I've never experienced the negative effects of clipping in Reason somehow yet even when it being mindful of it potentially happening, so I guess that's what makes the concept more confusing for me lol
Thank you for being entertaining. The main reason I've never bothered watching tutorials is because they're always so boring. It's funny this is the second video I've seen from you, and on the first video I noticed all the clipping, and was like "what the what?".
Ryan, hello, nice work as always. Does this also apply to the need to "gain stage" to 0db before hitting a plugin, because (supposedly at least) plugins (RE, VSTs etc) are designed to expect less or close to 0db? E.g. let's say we have an amp emulator plugin. Would a +12db incoming signal a) be treated the same as a -12db signal, with all distortion depending on high hard we set the various dials on the plugin or b) it would cause the plugin to try to emulate various real life "volume cranking" artifacts?
First of all, you can't just say "0 dB" and have it mean a specific level - decibels are essentially a ratio so you need to specify in relation to "what" (like saying 0 dBFS, which means the clipping point, or saying to ADD 6 dB, etc.). In addition to that you need to specify whether you're talking RMS, Peak, or other metering. But yes, s a general rule increasing the gain BEFORE hitting an amp is similar or the same as driving the distortion hotter. In many cases, that's exactly what's going on internally. Same for a peak limiter - you can either lower the threshold or increase the gain somewhere before the limiter and you'll get the same amount of gain reduction (all other things being equal). This is essentially what "boosters" (guitar pedals) do in the guitar world, as one example. :)
I barely hear at all after years of mixing in the cans/headphones. So it's all good. "What? What's that you said/played" lol Thanks. Great videos. Makes music production fun again like the we all started out and didn't know a fader from an EQ. Thanks bro.
This was a very, VERY good video. Coincidentally (and this isn't a positioning / troll / discussion trigger!), this is the same situation in FL Studio. Brilliant info.
Amazing video. A few questions. Would u export the limited track and then master it? Or do the limiting in the final stage of mastering? There are no videos explaining getting from the final stages of mixdown to mastering? Im under the impression should be mixing down exporting with -6db of headroom so that the track is ready for mastering with no final compression or limiters applied? Im wondering if this limiting should be done to the stereo track when you re import it but here it looks like you are doing this right to your project itself??
Thanks for watching, and these are good questions. Limiting and mastering are actually part of the same process. If you're going to master after the fact - or send your material off for mastering, I would use the master fader method I show and let the mastering engineer (even if that's you in a separate process) handle the limiting. The way you describe it is the safest way to do it. Some people prefer to master themselves right in their own production file. The risk is that you go back to make changes to your production and forget the mastering chain is own and you're getting a weird picture of your song because it's being mastered on the fly. I wouldn't recommend that. But if I'm doing a quickie export and I just want to match loudness, I'll do it. I just remember to turn it off when i'm done exporting. /ryan
Propellerhead so if I'm sending my beat out to another artist to record vocals in pro tools and to have it mastered once the vocals are recorded and mixed is it safe to say my beat should be exported out just before peaking or clipping in the master fader with no limiter? Or at -6db
Good informative video, avoiding jargon or snobbery! However, I would advising against mastering all the way to 0dBFS. Read up on some of Bob Katz' work on mastering, he'll tell you to leave a little headroom, and master to -0.2dBFS or so. I sometimes go as far as -0.5dBFS because what's 0.3dB between friends?
Well that is just awesome to hear! Any tutorial topics you'd like me to cover in the future? I'm thinking i'll do one on chord progressions and maybe I'll even tackle the subject of mastering. /ryan
Hi Ryan, thanks for getting back to me! I'm starting to experiment in Reason and I'm looking forward to becoming competent with it soon enough. I have 2 (hopefully) quick questions. I understand that the gist is to not worry about clipping and levels until later in the mixing process. However, if the VU Offset meters are not meant for testing for clipping, then what is their purpose? Also. at 5:09 if there is an output of -1db, why is the VU offset meter for Thor showing 8db? I know not to worry about it, but it seems strange. As for ideas, chord progressions (jazz chords would be sweet) and mastering are good. I'm still trying to wrap my head around what the difference between mixing and mastering is. From what I understand, mixing makes a song sound coherent while mastering makes the whole album sound coherent from song to song. Perhaps a lesson on some considerations on how to mix a rock song (using real guitars/bass etc.) since most of these tutorials are focused on more electronic genres. Maybe showing off the potential of hocket (aka Klangfarbenmelodie or "tone color melody") arrangements in Reason and how to mix that appropriately could be neat and be a way to use many different synth sounds and finding a way to make them all fit nicely in the mix. Thank you for taking the time to make these tutorials!
I wish I had a great answer for you that I fully understood myself! I'm not entirely sure why the designers of the program made it this way, but I'll break it down for you as best I can. VU Offset means just that... first VU... it's a VU meter which means that it's not responding to every single amplitude value the way a Peak meter would bounce. Instead it responds to a moving average of the signal. This is how older analog meters work because in the analog era, tape was far more forgiving of overloading than digital was so it was more useful to see the averaged volume being shown on a meter's needle than the transient volume. So one could make the same argument for audio inside Reason and therefore it seems the designers chose to represent signals in the channel meters with VU response instead of peak. Now for the second part of the term VU Offset... the offset. This one I really don't understand personally. I'm not sure what the advantage of being able to set a universal offset would be for your channel meters. But that's just kinda how it is. For what it's worth, that offset is actually adjustable in Reason. So if you look in the Rack at the top rack device where the big meter is you'll see a knob for VU offset where you can change the amount of VU offset displayed. So in your example above in my video, if you changed the VU Offset value that 8db Thor signal could be 4db or 12 db depending on where you set the offset knob. But being completely honest, I'm not sure why you'd want to do that either! :) In my years of audio engineering experience I've never wished for that ability but surely someone has and so it's in there. As for your description of mixing and mastering... that's a good way to think about it. I've avoided doing a mastering tutorial because it's a really subtle process and so making a tutorial where the changes are obvious would mean I'm probably overdoing it just for the sake of illustration. But I have some ideas that I'll probably put into a video.
The design of the VU meters in the mixer could be due to them emulating those on an SSL 9000 console. The first model (J) had an analogue VU meter for each channel strip. VU meters traditionally mark the segment above 0 VU in red. The second model (K), the one Reason emulates, had digital meters, but in every photo I can find of them, the LED segments are green and red.
Thank you very much. Im all the way back in reason 6 but I can still produce radio quality songs with it now that ive worked in the same program for almost 11 years. im thinking about upgrading soon to get all the new toys but for now im glad with what I have now. Had the clipping issue and would reduce the volume on all my levels but now i dont have to worry thanks to you. Subbed.
So the maximizer is primarily for mastering, correct?... If I'm going to bounce all the instrument stems to Pro Tools, for recording the final song, should I even bother with the maximizer in Reason? Also, you say lower the master fader so the output isn't clipping; is that not contrary to gain-staging?
OK, thanks. Very interesting. But now, I'd like to understand what the tracks vumeter indicate, especialy yours at 5:04. If your thor signal is at -1db, why is the track vumeter showing 8db ? What is the purpose of the VU offset setting on the big meter ? Yeah, questions ! Quite confusing : why is the Reason user manual telling that ? page 383 : "Channel Meter : The meter is a graphical representation of the channel output level... ...If the signal level pushes the meter into the red, to avoid distortion try lowering either the output level of the device connected to the channel or the channel fader itself". Thanks for any useful answer.
+Ggaa Feur tl;dr version: VU represents levels in "fake analog" to give us an idea of how much louder or softer the audio coming out of the channel is vs. going in. Non tl;dr version: When you have your input gain and channel fader set to Unity (0dB), the unprocessed signal coming into the channel strip in the digital domain will max out at 0dB. What the digital domain is doesn't really matter here because like it's explained in the video, Reason processes the channel faders in 32-bit floating point to give you a lot of mixing headroom. When you add compression, filters or insert effects to the incoming audio, the final output level changes accordingly. The VU meter on the fader represents in an analog sense of how much louder (above 0dB) or softer (below 0dB) the outgoing signal is. For example, when you hook up an electric guitar, with the input gain and fader at Unity, the sound can be pretty quiet. Put in an amp in the effects rack for the channel, and the outgoing signal becomes much louder, even going above 0dB on the VU scale--again, it's just an analog representation of how much louder the sound is going into the next bus (or the master output). I hope that makes sense.
+Ggaa Feur As far as distortion goes, that's because Reason's mixer emulates the exact analog circuitry used in the SSL 9k channel strip, which means that even with a 32-bit floating point digital backend, the "fake analog" circuit can still be overdriven just like a solid state or tube amplifier. So when an outgoing signal from a channel is above 0dB VU and in the red, if you pass that signal through another device (like inserts on a mixing bus), the signal will be, in analog terms, "hot" going in and can *potentially* cause distortion on the next device. Ryan's video is explaining that this isn't necessarily a bad thing, and to simply trust your ears to get the sound you want. If an output sounds too hot going into the next input, just turn down the output a bit until it suits your taste.
Thanks! This answers a lot of questions that I have been struggling with. I can stop mixing like I'm gonna break something. I was wondering, however, about the master meter when it comes to sending things off to a mastering agency. They speak of the magical -18 to -6 headspace thing, which is fine, but I also read that you can't just drop the master fader down to acquire it. Is this true? Keep up the great work. These tutorials are golden!
+Daniel Smith Why couldn't you just drop the master fader down to their suggested level? Without reading the thing that you saw that in, I can't think of a reason why that would be in any way bad. I'd say with 100% confidence that you're fine with that - unless someone has come compelling reason I'm not thinking of. /ryan
+Propellerhead Hmmm...I was going off of a LANDR mastering tutorial: 2. Work With Your Channel Faders, Not Your Master Fader Use your channel faders to avoid hitting zero in your master channel. When you exclusively lower the master fader, it may create some headroom but it’s likely that your DAW will still bounce a smashed (distorted) file. This is a very common problem. Is this misleading?And thanks for the response. You got it going on!
+Daniel Smith In regards to Reason, that makes no sense. My assumption is that LANDR is writing that tutorial to account for every possible DAW and app out there people might be using and maybe there's SOMETHING out there where that is true (still can't imagine why) but it's definitely not true in Reason. Turning down the master fader does nothing more than turning down the master output level. /ryan
+Propellerhead The -6dB thing that mastering houses keep asking for is moreover a psychological guideline meant to dissuade you from over-compressing your music. 100% right that pulling down the master fader is the same thing as lowering all the faders. With that said, if your music is squashed, pulling down the master does not fix that. The thing that really matters to someone mastering for you is that there's still room for them to actually work.
Completely unrelated to music (therefore TOTALLY relevant... *ducks*). What software do you use to make these videos and string it all together? Very cool presentation techniques - content rocks (goes without saying)
This single video has has explained to me what I have been worrying about for the last 8 months getting back Into production . Cannot thank you enough.
How's it going?
So blindingly obvious once it's explained! Now to go back and adjust all of my 8-bar masterpieces and hopefully they'll sound nice enough to inspire me to complete the songs!
I have a lot of 8 bar masterpieces
@@himdownstairsmusik Haha folders full of 8 bar masterpieces
@@kahlilwolf fact
I started stringing them together at random and keeping the ones that sounded good.
(:
Facts
Someone once asked Ray Charles how he kept his music from clipping when he couldn't see the meters. He said "I use my ears and when I hear clipping I turn the fader down. " I think we could all apply the same principle.
+Matt Rushton If that's true, Matt. That's an awesome story. Yes... using ears and not eyes is one of my core mixing principles. :) Thanks for watching! /ryan
@@RyanHarlin but I bet he was working in the analog domain not in today’s digital world of digital DAWs. I don’t think this is comparing like with like
@@waynevdk1 Well actually this story would apply even more to the digital domain where clipping is more easily heard. And either way, the core principle here is that if it sounds good, it is good. A universal truth.
Yea exactly. On analog mixers back in the 90s n early 2gs, I could hear the distortion n clipping. Then of course you'd hear it when u mix it to a cassette. Wit these digital daws n mixers, I can't hear when it clips. N distort. I can only tell by sight. I would like to learn by my ears tho if possible.
Great tutorial Ryan on the understanding of headroom and the red levels....rock on!
agreed.
OMG, this is probably one of the most simplest yet effective ways to really bring my music recordings up a major notch! Thanks so much for making this video!!
Same, my drums never sounded this loud before. Go get em!
New to Reason. It was actually my last desperate choice...but I love it. The DAW, the RACK, is perfect for my brain. Thanks Ryan for putting this together in 2016 so that many of us coming on board to REASON can benefit from it in 2021. There will be a little bonus in your paycheck!
I just mixed a song following your advices, and it sounds great! Thanks from the buttom of my heart for share all this tutorials.
This was BY FAR one of the most helpful videos I've ever seen! Thank you Propellerhead team!!!
These tutorials are really great. They are really well presented, well explained, and they don't waste time. Thank you and please make more like these! Super helpful!
This series is quite possibly the best series of videos I've ever stumbled across.
Thanks! I'll be making more!
all these years scared to release music because the sound was weak and I was scared or red..soooo glad I found this..
"The thing about mastering limiters......" - Albert Einstein ... LOL! Great vid as always! XD
This video deserves an Oscar. I’ve watched it over and over. Just brilliant
Very informative! Keep up the great videos!
I was guilty of freaking out over my levels on the mixer. Thank you for clearing this up for me. Now I can relax and get back to making music without fear of creating a wall of noise.
Wow!! Thank you!! I, coming from an analog background, came back to what I love and hit a wall with the digital world of production and engineering. Everything I did sounded so thin. Well had i not tweeked the life out of my works in the mixer channels... outstanding info bro!! Thank you!
Yup, until I watch this video, I was pulling the channel down from the VU meter red position. Never again, thanks for the great video!
Same for me. I've had Reason for 4 years now, and I'm finally understanding why I wasn't getting that pro edge to my sound.
This is way more important than you think, sooooo many people get way confused about volume and gain staging the final bounce etc.. this video is great.
I did not realise how much I needed to see and hear this video. Amazing 👏
You are literally the FIRST person I've met that has FINALLY agreed with me on this!
In fact, I've had artists turn away from using me to produce their songs because they
fight with me on seeing red LED's. Mind you my music sounds 10x better, more clearer
than the "Producers" that they end up giving their money too..
I have subscribed, and will finally start pointing out this video to all my nay-sayers I've
met over the years of producing music.
#MISTA808
Go team Red!! ;) This video has been really useful for me too because people still comment on my other videos about red LEDs they see and now I can just refer them here say "go watch this and then come back and say you're sorry." LOL And you know how I already know your production is good? Because you've already displayed your convictions to trust your ears and instincts instead of book learning and internet myths. Well done and thanks for the subscribe! /ryan
Nice tutorial - What isn't mentioned here is the RMS level and using reference material as a good guide to setting "How loud" something should be. At @9.00 - Many ozone presets recommend a certain RMS level at input - usually -12 dB RMS, -3dB peak - which I'm guessing the RE version doesn't show, so ideally you'd have a pre-gain knob just before Ozone, set that to get to the recommended input level , then your Ozone insert (to get the most out of the maximizer without sounding squashed).
Thanks for this tutorial, I have been confused about this for years!
This is the finest video on this topic I've watched. I am very guilty of smiting down a mix channel because it sees red. Its something I've always done with DJ'ing, I'll keep my EQ's flat and just boost the volume until it sits neatly in the amber. But this video is essential for folks like me how know how make a tune, but not really know how to improve its sound.
Sheez these tutorials are like the best on the internet and makes me want to stick to Reason even more. Please never stop these series Ryan!
Ryan. We definitely need you more than once a month :(
These videos must take an incredible amount of time to make and edit.
Great video! Now I can spend more time focusing on the music and less time (or no time at all) worrying about levels.
Thanks, Ryan
the sound of the levels is most important... listen more look less. have good monitors, and a treated room and you can be accurate. which is what you want. LEAVE as MUCH headroom for you mastering engineer... to crunch out the last bit with the nice expensive gear they have... which will make things sound VERY nice :)
I love (and miss) these video series!
They should make the LEDs orange at the top if they don't mean you are clipping the audio. Running into the red is for old fashioned analogue gear where you could sometimes clip to taste.
+45rpm did you not learn?
Don't Sweat It. It's not the numbers.. it's the music that you're trying to make.
+Suyen Bass some learners are visual ;-)
ArthurKnoqOut I am a visual learner as well... but remember you are using your ears to hear the results.. using your eyes while mixing may get you confused
you're absolutely right :)
i agree nobody need to guess if its clipping
I really do appreciate Ryan's Videos. Video Production. It's cohesive and to the point. I truly enjoy them. Thank you!
You might not have envisaged doing this tutorial, but for someone who's been using reason since reason 1, that was very revealing. And sorted out a confusion I'd had between channel strip behaviour and master strip behaviour since the beginning. Thanks!
Thanks a million for this video. You have just opened a horizon of possibilities for me. Respect.
Very informative and another great video. Keep 'em coming!
Possibly the best Reason video I have seen.
I love the subtle humor in all these videos. Ableton user here, but still find these useful
Several years ago I noticed what I thought was clipping in the meters, but I never heard the clipping. I always thought that was strange. Your video just explained why. Thanks for that!!!
Thanks for being AWESOME!
I just discovered all these videos and learned quite a bit in the last few days. Wow, this is a game changer for me.
Thanks for "turning on the lights" for me. I had assumed that this was true when adding output buses because almost always when I output several channels to a new bus, it would end up in the red. I figured what good would that be if it was now clipping (and it didn't sound like it was clipping). But now knowing that all channels are not clipping just because the level is in the red is a HUGE piece of knowledge for mixing moving forward. Great video!
I was having clipping anxiety just yesterday haha. This video gave me an idea for a refill. Call it "Bit by Bit," a bitcrusher that can go from 1bit to max by increments of single bits. I imagine you could get some versatile clipping out of it.
Reason 9 + These vids has changed my musical world. Thanks guys.
I learned soooooo much from this video. Thanks a ton. Once again Propellerhead shows us why they are in an untouchable league of their own.
Simple gain staging tut please! you make all of this so easy to understand and I don't even use reason!
Some plugins is optimized to work optimally at around -18dbfs, especially those which models real hardware, but the beauty of it is that you can DRIVE plugins like a real analog gear and get some very pleasing results! Try it out for your self and you will find out cases when you will get amazing results.
So does this mean that the master fader in reason is supposed to show you what would happen if you export the song to 16 bits? That if it's in the red then that means that in a 16 bit mode, it would sound distorted? And if so, what does that master meter tell us about what would happen if we exported 24 bits instead? Would the clipping still be present?
And finally, if the highest peak of your song is -1db, how do we know for sure that it won't sound clipped/distorted when exported to 16 bits without dithering? I suppose I want to know how those different dBs on the master meter correspond to what volume level/bit depth it can go to without getting distorted. I hope this makes sense, I'm having a hard time explaining my question on this one...
These are great questions and i'll do my best to answer. First of all - the master meter in Reason (not the fader) shows you what would happen if you export the song. You are mostly correct but just for clarity, the one I'm talking about is the meter shown on the Hardware Interface in the rack, not the main mixer's meter/fader. Often they're the same but it's possible for you (or someone else you might be working with) to patch devices into the signal between that main mixer master fader and the hardware output which would cause what you see on that meter and what you export to not be the same. However, the meter on the hardware interface (in the rack) is the LAST stop out of reason on your way to export so that one is the one you trust above all else. If you see clipping there, you're truly clipping.
As for 16 or 24... this is a slightly technical topic about fixed integer vs floating point digital audio, so perhaps just accept me when I say this: 0db is clipping in both a 16bit output and a 24bit output. You don't avoid clipping by exporting in 24 bit. I'll try to give you a slightly technical answer but that is the real takeaway you need to know. But the technical answer is this: audio traveling around inside Reason is 32 and 64 bit "floating point" audio. Audio files exported from Reason are "fixed point" audio. Floating point audio can handle values above 0db. Fixed point cannot, regardless of whether it's 16 or 24bit. The different between 16 and 24bit fixed point audio in terms of it's dynamic range (range between quietest and loudest signal) is therefore noticed on the bottom end of the range. 24bit fixed point audio has a lower noise floor than 16bit fixed point audio. But like I said... this is all techical. The big takeaway to understand is that whether or not your exporting in 16 or 24 bit you still need to respect the 0db limit.
Hope that all makes sense and that I didn't have TOO many typos. :P /ryan
Broh. All of your vids are phenomenal, but this one really helped me. Thanks for breaking that all down.
THE BEST VIDEO ABOUT MIXING I VE SEEN IN MY LIFE
Great video. The only thing that you didn't mention is within Reason sequencer on the lower right hand side you have the graphs DSP - IN -OUT. Can you please clarify whether if you see on the OUT put level red is that wrong? Either on overall mix or if you solo each channel strip and see red in the OUT metre. Thank you
Well that was just a great myth-busting crash course in digital audio. Thanks!
Perfect. This is how you do tutorials. Propellerheads better give the MVPs that made this a bonus this Christmas! ;)
Love this series of videos. Just always nails it.
Love the perfect montage and design in this series of tutorials
thumb up for it even I didn't watch it over. I know the quality of this guy. now I'm watching...
This is completely true and a very good point to touch on! May I just add that VSTs can and WILL clip internally depending on the VST.
Fixed point digital audio can clip, floating point, not so much (unless you add over 700 dB gain or more…).
It depends on the VST that's what I was trying to say, they don't necessarily operate with the same headroom as your daw
thanks for the info. I pull all of my channels down til I see no red. but now this video has changed that...somewhat. I've learned something new and hopefully my mixes will be better for it.
perfect timing, needed to learn this!
This is a terrific video with a lot of fantastic info. Also, very nicely put together. Thanks Ryan! I just have one critique, at about 8:51 you recommend pulling the Master Fader down while you’re producing and mixing to prevent your audio interface from clipping. I understand what you’re saying, but I think this is a really bad habit to encourage. If instead you set up Reason’s Control Room Out and use this for the level going to your audio interface you’ll have the best of both worlds, you’ll be able to see what’s really happening on your Master Fader meters and stop your audio interface from clipping without reducing your final mix output level. Anyhow, this is obviously a whole other video to explain the Master Section’s inserts position relative to the Master Fader and how it’s the Master Fader level that’s exported to disk. Fun stuff! :-)
+Erik Hawk Can you link to a quick guide to setting up your control room out? I mean I can read the manual but videos are nice ha. Thanks
+A “me2you1” Yes, I'm going to do a video on this topic. Give me a few weeks to get to it, got some other projects I'm wrapping up right now. Stay tuned :-)
+Erik Hawk cool. did you ever do that part 2 of the regroove mixer? saw PT 1 today.
+A “me2you1” Shaw No I didn't, but I should. I've had a few people ask so I guess there's some interest. Thanks for the reminder, I'll put it on my list.
Love these videos! They help a lot! I'm an aspiring music producer and I was wondering if you could do a video on getting that "full sound" in a track. More specifically panning and getting depth to your sound and that sort of stuff... all while giving an artist room in a track. I'm looking for a way to transform from making beats, to making instrumentals. I bet Justen Williams could help out a lot too, after Sallie May Back.
Thankyou so much for this explanation. I'm guilty of leaving my master fader at 0db and having all my channel faders way low down for fear of clipping in the mix bus (a habit from using low quality hardware mixers in the past). Not that my mixes weren't bad, mind - I just gave myself less headroom to work with. I'm gonna try and force myself to mix differently from now on :)
Thank you Ryan and Propellerhead -- GREAT info for those of us just figuring these things out!
Nice explanation, thank you for this video. I think I'll rewatch many times in the future.
Very good video ! I learn a lot and it's really fun, thank you.
You explained it so easily! Your tutorial was great, please keep on doing these great vids!
If I hit lotto (or finally get a hit song) I'll pay Propellerhead to have you produce daily videos. You're too good. MC hammer says no one "Can tough this".
Great lesson.
Especially the part about don't run mastering plugins like the maximizer while you're mixing. I see everybody doing this.
Honestly I'm super impressed with how far you can push Ozone before it becomes obvious.
Me too! /ryan
it wasnt a topic for you ryan? what wasnt? explaining mastering in reason for reasoners, cmon man we should be getting more on this!!! ive bneen with you guys since reason 3 and you know damn well audio clips inside reason 15 years ago or more! you should give a complete mastering class share your knowledge for us faithfull reason users. im rebboting my hobby on music!!! lets go reason studios love you guys!!! Ryan keep up the great work!
Great video, cleared up some things for me for sure - however the part that confuses me is: if clipping doesn't matter like you said until export....then why do you lower the master fader while you mix, then put it back up before you add the limiter?
That's a good question, and one I can elaborate on here. It's a little bit too simplified to say that clipping doesn't matter until "export." It would be more fair to say that clipping doesn't matter until the audio leaves Reason in any form. Now certainly one way it does that is by exporting a stereo master audio file but it also leaves Reason when it goes to your soundcard for listening via speakers or headphones. And it's this second one where clipping comes into play. If you didn't lower the master fader then any clipping signals above 0dB would go over to your soundcard as fixed integer digital audio and clip what you hear. Simply put, it would sound distorted. So by lowering the master fader you're giving yourself that extra headroom make sure you don't clip your soundcard. But THEN... when you're ready to export with a maximizer set up, the maximizer is now making sure that your audio isn't clipping. So since it's no longer at risk for clipping you can safely bring your master fader back up because you don't need that extra headroom to avoid clipping your soundcard. Make sense? /ryan
Propellerhead ok that clears that up for me. I've never experienced the negative effects of clipping in Reason somehow yet even when it being mindful of it potentially happening, so I guess that's what makes the concept more confusing for me lol
Thank you for being entertaining. The main reason I've never bothered watching tutorials is because they're always so boring. It's funny this is the second video I've seen from you, and on the first video I noticed all the clipping, and was like "what the what?".
AWESOME ..AWESOME. VIDEO. .!!
Awesome! No more fighting the dreaded red zone for me! Keep up the great tutorials :)
Ryan, hello, nice work as always.
Does this also apply to the need to "gain stage" to 0db before hitting a plugin, because (supposedly at least) plugins (RE, VSTs etc) are designed to expect less or close to 0db?
E.g. let's say we have an amp emulator plugin.
Would a +12db incoming signal
a) be treated the same as a -12db signal, with all distortion depending on high hard we set the various dials on the plugin
or
b) it would cause the plugin to try to emulate various real life "volume cranking" artifacts?
First of all, you can't just say "0 dB" and have it mean a specific level - decibels are essentially a ratio so you need to specify in relation to "what" (like saying 0 dBFS, which means the clipping point, or saying to ADD 6 dB, etc.). In addition to that you need to specify whether you're talking RMS, Peak, or other metering.
But yes, s a general rule increasing the gain BEFORE hitting an amp is similar or the same as driving the distortion hotter. In many cases, that's exactly what's going on internally. Same for a peak limiter - you can either lower the threshold or increase the gain somewhere before the limiter and you'll get the same amount of gain reduction (all other things being equal).
This is essentially what "boosters" (guitar pedals) do in the guitar world, as one example.
:)
Another great video! This is an amazing tutorial series. Thank you Propellorhead
these videos are immensely helpful, thank you
I barely hear at all after years of mixing in the cans/headphones. So it's all good. "What? What's that you said/played" lol Thanks. Great videos. Makes music production fun again like the we all started out and didn't know a fader from an EQ. Thanks bro.
Anyone else give a hearty chuckle around 09:54? Magic...
Great tutorial! No wonder my rough mixes never sound distorted when I export them! Really useful information.
I never comment on videos...... This one was is FANTASTIC !!!!
Such an eye opener bruh!! Great job as always 🙂
This was a very, VERY good video. Coincidentally (and this isn't a positioning / troll / discussion trigger!), this is the same situation in FL Studio. Brilliant info.
Oh my GOSH - I wasted days with my maximizer ENABLED during mixing, what a headache - thanks a MILLION
Amazing video. A few questions. Would u export the limited track and then master it? Or do the limiting in the final stage of mastering? There are no videos explaining getting from the final stages of mixdown to mastering? Im under the impression should be mixing down exporting with -6db of headroom so that the track is ready for mastering with no final compression or limiters applied? Im wondering if this limiting should be done to the stereo track when you re import it but here it looks like you are doing this right to your project itself??
Thanks for watching, and these are good questions. Limiting and mastering are actually part of the same process. If you're going to master after the fact - or send your material off for mastering, I would use the master fader method I show and let the mastering engineer (even if that's you in a separate process) handle the limiting. The way you describe it is the safest way to do it. Some people prefer to master themselves right in their own production file. The risk is that you go back to make changes to your production and forget the mastering chain is own and you're getting a weird picture of your song because it's being mastered on the fly. I wouldn't recommend that. But if I'm doing a quickie export and I just want to match loudness, I'll do it. I just remember to turn it off when i'm done exporting. /ryan
Propellerhead so if I'm sending my beat out to another artist to record vocals in pro tools and to have it mastered once the vocals are recorded and mixed is it safe to say my beat should be exported out just before peaking or clipping in the master fader with no limiter? Or at -6db
This video makes me smile!
Thanks for clearing this up. Great vid.
I dont have reason, and I've learned so much from your videos.
Great vids, easy to understand and no bullshit! Have used a few tips and tricks from the series, mixes sound much fatter now! Thank you!!
Good informative video, avoiding jargon or snobbery! However, I would advising against mastering all the way to 0dBFS. Read up on some of Bob Katz' work on mastering, he'll tell you to leave a little headroom, and master to -0.2dBFS or so. I sometimes go as far as -0.5dBFS because what's 0.3dB between friends?
IT ALL MAKES SO MUCH SENSE NOW
this video changed my life
Umm Yes - but. Modelled Effect Re:s are programmed to work with proper unity gain. Right or wrong? So levels *do* matter.
You answered all the questions I had before I knew I had them.
Also, you don't know it yet but you're nearly out of milk in your fridge. /ryan
Propellerhead Eerie...that's actually true. ;-)
Hey Ryan, your tutorial videos have sold me on Reason. I'm looking forward to making some killer tracks with it!
Well that is just awesome to hear! Any tutorial topics you'd like me to cover in the future? I'm thinking i'll do one on chord progressions and maybe I'll even tackle the subject of mastering. /ryan
Hi Ryan, thanks for getting back to me! I'm starting to experiment in Reason and I'm looking forward to becoming competent with it soon enough. I have 2 (hopefully) quick questions. I understand that the gist is to not worry about clipping and levels until later in the mixing process. However, if the VU Offset meters are not meant for testing for clipping, then what is their purpose? Also. at 5:09 if there is an output of -1db, why is the VU offset meter for Thor showing 8db? I know not to worry about it, but it seems strange.
As for ideas, chord progressions (jazz chords would be sweet) and mastering are good. I'm still trying to wrap my head around what the difference between mixing and mastering is. From what I understand, mixing makes a song sound coherent while mastering makes the whole album sound coherent from song to song.
Perhaps a lesson on some considerations on how to mix a rock song (using real guitars/bass etc.) since most of these tutorials are focused on more electronic genres. Maybe showing off the potential of hocket (aka Klangfarbenmelodie or "tone color melody") arrangements in Reason and how to mix that appropriately could be neat and be a way to use many different synth sounds and finding a way to make them all fit nicely in the mix.
Thank you for taking the time to make these tutorials!
I wish I had a great answer for you that I fully understood myself! I'm not entirely sure why the designers of the program made it this way, but I'll break it down for you as best I can. VU Offset means just that... first VU... it's a VU meter which means that it's not responding to every single amplitude value the way a Peak meter would bounce. Instead it responds to a moving average of the signal. This is how older analog meters work because in the analog era, tape was far more forgiving of overloading than digital was so it was more useful to see the averaged volume being shown on a meter's needle than the transient volume.
So one could make the same argument for audio inside Reason and therefore it seems the designers chose to represent signals in the channel meters with VU response instead of peak.
Now for the second part of the term VU Offset... the offset. This one I really don't understand personally. I'm not sure what the advantage of being able to set a universal offset would be for your channel meters. But that's just kinda how it is. For what it's worth, that offset is actually adjustable in Reason. So if you look in the Rack at the top rack device where the big meter is you'll see a knob for VU offset where you can change the amount of VU offset displayed.
So in your example above in my video, if you changed the VU Offset value that 8db Thor signal could be 4db or 12 db depending on where you set the offset knob. But being completely honest, I'm not sure why you'd want to do that either! :) In my years of audio engineering experience I've never wished for that ability but surely someone has and so it's in there.
As for your description of mixing and mastering... that's a good way to think about it. I've avoided doing a mastering tutorial because it's a really subtle process and so making a tutorial where the changes are obvious would mean I'm probably overdoing it just for the sake of illustration. But I have some ideas that I'll probably put into a video.
The design of the VU meters in the mixer could be due to them emulating those on an SSL 9000 console. The first model (J) had an analogue VU meter for each channel strip. VU meters traditionally mark the segment above 0 VU in red. The second model (K), the one Reason emulates, had digital meters, but in every photo I can find of them, the LED segments are green and red.
Thank you very much. Im all the way back in reason 6 but I can still produce radio quality songs with it now that ive worked in the same program for almost 11 years. im thinking about upgrading soon to get all the new toys but for now im glad with what I have now. Had the clipping issue and would reduce the volume on all my levels but now i dont have to worry thanks to you. Subbed.
You missing alot
So the maximizer is primarily for mastering, correct?... If I'm going to bounce all the instrument stems to Pro Tools, for recording the final song, should I even bother with the maximizer in Reason?
Also, you say lower the master fader so the output isn't clipping; is that not contrary to gain-staging?
Such a great tutorial. Thanks Ryan
Where can I get the first song in the background? It's fantastic :)
OK, thanks. Very interesting.
But now, I'd like to understand what the tracks vumeter indicate, especialy yours at 5:04.
If your thor signal is at -1db, why is the track vumeter showing 8db ?
What is the purpose of the VU offset setting on the big meter ? Yeah, questions !
Quite confusing : why is the Reason user manual telling that ?
page 383 :
"Channel Meter : The meter is a graphical representation of the channel output level...
...If the signal level pushes the meter into the red, to avoid distortion try lowering either the output level of the device connected to the channel or the channel fader itself".
Thanks for any useful answer.
+Ggaa Feur tl;dr version: VU represents levels in "fake analog" to give us an idea of how much louder or softer the audio coming out of the channel is vs. going in.
Non tl;dr version: When you have your input gain and channel fader set to Unity (0dB), the unprocessed signal coming into the channel strip in the digital domain will max out at 0dB. What the digital domain is doesn't really matter here because like it's explained in the video, Reason processes the channel faders in 32-bit floating point to give you a lot of mixing headroom.
When you add compression, filters or insert effects to the incoming audio, the final output level changes accordingly. The VU meter on the fader represents in an analog sense of how much louder (above 0dB) or softer (below 0dB) the outgoing signal is.
For example, when you hook up an electric guitar, with the input gain and fader at Unity, the sound can be pretty quiet. Put in an amp in the effects rack for the channel, and the outgoing signal becomes much louder, even going above 0dB on the VU scale--again, it's just an analog representation of how much louder the sound is going into the next bus (or the master output).
I hope that makes sense.
+Ggaa Feur As far as distortion goes, that's because Reason's mixer emulates the exact analog circuitry used in the SSL 9k channel strip, which means that even with a 32-bit floating point digital backend, the "fake analog" circuit can still be overdriven just like a solid state or tube amplifier. So when an outgoing signal from a channel is above 0dB VU and in the red, if you pass that signal through another device (like inserts on a mixing bus), the signal will be, in analog terms, "hot" going in and can *potentially* cause distortion on the next device.
Ryan's video is explaining that this isn't necessarily a bad thing, and to simply trust your ears to get the sound you want. If an output sounds too hot going into the next input, just turn down the output a bit until it suits your taste.
Amazing Video ! Even Can Say Life Changing For a Lot Of People !!! Wishing for new mixing videos ... or more tutorials anyways
One of the best videos ive seen
Wow, such awesome explanation!
Thanks! This answers a lot of questions that I have been struggling with. I can stop mixing like I'm gonna break something.
I was wondering, however, about the master meter when it comes to sending things off to a mastering agency. They speak of the magical -18 to -6 headspace thing, which is fine, but I also read that you can't just drop the master fader down to acquire it. Is this true?
Keep up the great work. These tutorials are golden!
+Daniel Smith Why couldn't you just drop the master fader down to their suggested level? Without reading the thing that you saw that in, I can't think of a reason why that would be in any way bad. I'd say with 100% confidence that you're fine with that - unless someone has come compelling reason I'm not thinking of. /ryan
+Propellerhead Hmmm...I was going off of a LANDR mastering tutorial:
2. Work With Your Channel Faders, Not Your Master Fader
Use your channel faders to avoid hitting zero in your master channel.
When you exclusively lower the master fader, it may create some
headroom but it’s likely that your DAW will still bounce a smashed
(distorted) file. This is a very common problem.
Is this misleading?And thanks for the response. You got it going on!
+Daniel Smith In regards to Reason, that makes no sense. My assumption is that LANDR is writing that tutorial to account for every possible DAW and app out there people might be using and maybe there's SOMETHING out there where that is true (still can't imagine why) but it's definitely not true in Reason. Turning down the master fader does nothing more than turning down the master output level. /ryan
+Propellerhead Well hell, you just made my life 17 squillion times easier! Thank you, sir! You're the best!
+Propellerhead The -6dB thing that mastering houses keep asking for is moreover a psychological guideline meant to dissuade you from over-compressing your music.
100% right that pulling down the master fader is the same thing as lowering all the faders. With that said, if your music is squashed, pulling down the master does not fix that. The thing that really matters to someone mastering for you is that there's still room for them to actually work.
Completely unrelated to music (therefore TOTALLY relevant... *ducks*). What software do you use to make these videos and string it all together? Very cool presentation techniques - content rocks (goes without saying)
Oooooh! Thanks! T his have been a pain in my mind for ages! ♥