Have we been using Reason wrong this entire time?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2024
- Have we been using Reason wrong this entire time? A glance at Reason 12 operation manual will show us just how wrong we have been all along.
I am curious to see if anyone has ever caught this before, and if you have and are a power Reason User, please let us know you awesome guy or girl!
Apparently, the control room out is actually really important when it comes to monitoring music in Reason. Super important in fact.
In the end though, this probably won't apply to many Reason users and more thank likely the added benefit of the Control room out will only help users with expensive audio interfaces with multiple inputs and outputs.
I think we will be okay to keep using Reason the way we have been using it. I don't know, what do you think?
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I guess it’s just me 😂😂😂😂 good to know!
na lol. there are plenty of users using the default output.
Yeah... 20 years in, doing it wrong the whole time. lol.
@@milescarr9490 lol 😂
Not just you. I’ve been using Reason for more than 20 years. There are many reasons to switch to CTRL out. Two key ones are automation on the Master fader, and, especially, monitoring the send returns. I can also turn down if I’m using monitors late at night without touching the automated fader
Hi
I do understand This
My First question IS to where you will connect the master Out ?
Because the master Out needs to have a Task
AS an Output the master Out can BE used to send thru the master section and Other devices to improve the Sound After the Main Mix
The question IS If you can hear IT in the Control room Out because ITS Happening at the Same Output so you need to Bring the master Out on a new Mixer Channel or sth
Hopefully you can answers the complete question
So the master Out shouldnt be touched because This will BE the Output your final result will BE recorded from on for example Tape Plugins Other
So in the end you realy need a Splitter to Bring the master Out mirror Control room to Headphones and to the Main Out for the Monitors of your audio Interface
Only This way you can adjust your Headphones Sound to your Monitors and EQ the Headphones in your audio Interface software Chanel plus your Studio Monitors wont BE Affected cause Signal is Split
If This IS right , the master Out fader of any Professional Platinum recording Studio ist almost never been touched
Only If increasing loudness on the Control room volume wont BE enough plus the loudness of what you can increase on the master Out
( Here AS written befor you can Set limiters And preamps to increase high amounts of loudness ) in This Moment i See No Other Logic about IT than Just to manipulate a finished Mix on the master Output without changing anything in the reason Mixer
I found Out about This ☝️i mentioned befor
The master Out is only for live Performance or recording your Mix so Routing This master to an Independent circle
Means you Play the master Live Like Theres a Show and you are listen Back in Headphones or Like in a Reporters room in Monitors over the Control room , and the master is going to the Main Pa
The Second Routing is that you have external mastering or effect Section or you want to use Plugins in reason that you want to Playback your Mix thru
But IT wont BE Playback over your Monitor system unless you Switch the Routing in reason
ITS easy to Put your Control room cable Connection to another Output for short time and the master connected to a Plugin Setup you created you Put into the Main Out of the audio Interface
To me This master Out is only making Sense in live Performance where you need to listen Back and Control the Mix and you will have a Pa thats different and needs acdifferent amp and system
To use mastering plugings and these Things you can Just connect IT to the Control room or using sends and Returns
So in This Case the master Out and Control room Just is Not making Sense
If Theres a Switch you can use to Playback the master of Control room then your able to easily compare your Mix with your master both routed in the Studio Monitors Output of the audio Interface
This will make Sense to listen to a clean Signal and mastered Signal with pressing one knob
I've been using reason for a long time and never quite understood the benefits of the control room out. Thanks for digging into the manual to help us all understand reason better!
It’s not wrong it’s just an additional option. If you want to turn your mix up or down use your speakers volume control if it has one or a volume knob on your interfaces monitoring output. Do not use the master fader to pull it down unless you’re automating fade in or out. They provide the control room out which has an attenuator that does not affect the master fader (which you mention in the video).
Exactly
You just said the same thing he said in his video. 🤷🏽♂️
It’s funny because I still see so many Reason Users pulling the master fader down though 😅
Whatever is comfortable I suppose it’s cool to experiment 😊😊
@@Chrisreedbeats hey you can bring a horse to water but you can’t make ‘em drink 😂
@@MrMarcLaflamme 😂😂😂😂
yup I always keep mines on CTRL room out...good tip bro keep the content coming!💯💪🏽
Appreciate you! How do you use it exactly? Like I set it up in this video?
This output has no affect on mixing or eq’ing. It’s a duplicate output with a dedicated volume control.
@@Chrisreedbeats yea I use it the same way...I seen it on LearnReason YT channel
@@MrMarcLaflamme I think the idea is using it rather than the master out to increase your volume during the mix session without increasing the actual projects volume, thereby giving you the “ what if we played this as loud as possible” without screwing up your mix.
It doesn’t make your mix or Eq better, it just helps you to monitor your music better. As Colt capperune says, “as soon as you start a mix session you begin to lose perspective on your mix” Hopefully this monitoring system saves time and thereby saving perspective.
@@Chrisreedbeats your audio interface or speakers or operating system have volume controls, use them, it’s the same thing. Then you don’t have to recable anything.
This is exactly how a real console works. You have a control room output which feeds the monitors and its output doesn't effect your masterbus processing. This is also a good way to listen to any send and return in isolation so you could maybe dial in a effect or if there is an issue with a send being too hot and many other benefits. But using the control room out the same exact workflow you would find on any studio analog console. So this is a good habit to learn if you ever want to work in a commercial studio since if you route your audio to the master bus on a patchbay no sound will come from the monitors since your masterbus is routed separately.
Man Reason is so cool for this!
yes, this has been a feature for a while. leave the master at "0", use the control room to adjust ur listening experience. #route #reasongang
Good to know, I recently grabbed 12 and have spent the most of my time in Reason using 5, and I'm not sure if it was there yet. Thanks for watching!
Been using reason 15 years but I discovered this aroun 5 yrs ago ..made a world of difference on my mixing
I feel that! Thanks for watching! How often do you get around to making music? I’ve been preoccupied these days
yeah that was something i learned back in like reason 4 i think i was blown away when i heard the difference when checking mixes
Perfect for gain staging when you’re mixing low and want to turn up the volume without changing your mix
That is the first use case that I thought about. I always just crank my instruments volume up way too high then have to mix them back down LOL
Yep that’s my problem still 😂
I've been up on this for awhile now with the Ctrl room routing but good vid bro, keep'em coming. You're bubbling right now but I got a feeling your channel's gonna blow up at some point.
4 Sho!
Glad I came across your vid, Chris. I started using Reason 9 ... now I'm using 12 but only now am I spending time trying to learn this stuff. Thanks for your info!
Thank you Chris. I appreciate your efforts to bring us knowledge based on your experiences!
There’s no right or wrong but this is based on the big desks we used to use in the 80s and 90s at EMI studios, the Neves, SSLs (on which the Reason mixer is loosely based), Sony Oxfords etc. It’s a very handy feature if you have a separate studio and control room and particularly if you’re likely to have multiple musicians listening to different mixes but wanted to have a baseline, being what is listened to in the control room. It was unheard of to mix as you were recording, specifically because automation of the mix was a clunky and complex thing, even on these state of the art consoles. The Neve automation used a 3.5inch floppy to store its data on, and the SSL used 8 inch floppies! With everything being hardware and automaton being synchronised to tape using SMPTE timecode, a mix was not something you could switch in and out of. So after the recording part, we’d make what was called a monitor mix, using what was coming out of these control room outputs as something to listen to on your car cassette player. The main mix out was often only used in the mixing sessions. We have so much flexibility these days and the level of technology is so much more democratic but sometimes it’s good to create workflow limitations to mimic the old days just to get the same vibe. Sometimes having no limits can be overwhelming to the creative process.
Finally I can listen to each send effect, when it is fed with all kinds of instruments and clear it up. Thanks!
Really clear&helpful squire.just gone from reason 4 to reason 12-big changes!got me head round alot of it&it's all because of all the Decent&clear tutorials that some like you do.cheers my man
Great video. I love technical demos/ discussions. I learned this years ago because I did take time to read the manual and watch all old instructional vids from Reason(when they were called Propellerhead studios). Can't wait to watch the others :)
A true student of the game! Glad to hear it. I read the manual and watch the videos but only when I really don't understand or know something. Just happened to get curious about the control room out. Thanks for watching!
Really helpful, thank you - Reason Studios wouldn't default with a "wrong" configuration though. The "reason" Master is wired up is that many of us have studio monitors with either volume controls or a hardware mixer (for control room) that we can adjust without affecting the Master. Keep making helpful videos!
To sumarised ,master bus is what you actualy print on export, ctrl room is for the monitor speaker and your hearing confort. Usualy a mastering engineering people, always ask for minus 12 dbfs,on the master bus without the bus compressor rack to have headroom to use hardware or software one on there final step , by the way, youtube always apply a limiting of -1.00 dbfs for any video, but yeah the control room help improving the mix before limiting or maximize any sound output.
Wow!!!! Great video and discovery. As a vocalist, using Reason in a home studio, this is huge. I find myself fooling with master levels for monitoring purposes and have to try and restore those settings for mixing/production. Thanks!!!!!!
There's no wrong use, that's just a convenience option, stock computer sound cards, usually don't come with a physical volume knob.. so this functionality could help with that...
I'm fairly new to reason this was super helpful, thank you!
Awww man this not the video for new to Reason, I’m glad to have you on but make sure to check out some of my other videos.
This one kinda out there!! LOL 😂
LOTS OF TUTORIALS ON DIFFERENT EFFECTS AND INSTRUMENTS
Always good to learn something knew!! Gr8 Vid!
Glad to hear it! Hope it helps!
THX again Chris Reed Beats, good looking out! 💪🏾💯
DJW good people like you is why I do what I do!
@@Chrisreedbeats Say Chris, God willing, you're on your way to blowing up BIGTIME BRO. Stay focus, humble, and alert for a lot of BS that comes with being great at what you do.
Thanks again for letting us music lovers inside of your life. Peace Always!
@@Chrisreedbeats Thank you Sir..
Thanks for sharing my head was about to explode but then it's kinda make a cense will wait for your next video
HAHAAHA thanks for watching!
The CTRL room saved my brain a few times. Lol. I learned it a while ago. I love it.
I haven't used it enough to know the difference yet LOL hope it helps!
One, I learned that I've been using reason completely wrong. lol. This was a really good video, I've been using reason for years, but It's also been a few years since I really dove deep into it as a whole. I'm back on my learning journey and this video has help a lot. Good Video. Thank you.
You can also use Control Room Out to sidechain the master bus compressor, to filter frequencies that you want the compressor to ignore
Now I like that tip!! Very useful!! Thank you!
How do you set that up??? I think I have an idea, but you sound like you've implemented this before 😅
@@Chrisreedbeats the Reason channel has a video about it, but I can't post a link in comments. It's called "Advanced Mastering - Focusing the Master Bus Compressor"
You simply cable the control room out to a filter and remove the frequencies you want the master bus compressor to ignore. Route this filter to the master bus side chain input and ensure the Key button is enabled. That should do the trick. This technique is normally used to remove low frequencies.
Hey there. Great use for sure. An alternative: parallel compression in the master chain.
@@atmadsen love it man building on the idea dope
I’ve got a midi controller knob permanently assigned to the control room knob for adjusting monitor level without needing the mouse. In a studio with a large format console you would definitely see a monitor level knob somewhere, easy to reach in the master section.
That's a good tip! I need another midi controller with more surface controls, My 88 keyboard doesn't have many and the ones it does will not work correctly with Reason.
@@Chrisreedbeats That’s weird. I’ve found reason to be the best at taking orders from all of my controllers
This totally helped me, thank you for this
Nice! What I love to hear. I think some of the other videos might be even more helpful than this one. Hope you stick around to catch a few! 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
This control room out is added to the real SSL because in big studios you dont want to walk up to your interfaces all the time. For a project studio this can just act as an additional output of everything basically
Wow. This is dope. Helps a lot!
Control room also allows you to properly monitor in isolation your sends and returns, so you can accurately know what your send/returns in isolation sound like.
Super vidéo, mec, j'ai enfin compris pourquoi on clipait systématiquement! Merci!
I want to mention one more important use case for the control room out: If you already have some instrumental tracks in Reason and want to record live vocals to them. Often the singer wants to hear her voice louder and the instrumental tracks quieter in her headphones. If you use an audio interface like the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 she can direct monitor her voice. If she now says: Please make the playback quieter, you simply can turn down the control room out volume without affecting the master bus.
Happily I’ve been using these outputs correctly because I read through the manual at the beginning, reading manuals can be boring and tedious but it’s really worth it. Learning from TH-cam tutorials and reviews can be useful too but you can also pick up someone else’s bad habits.
Good point! 👍🏾👍🏾
Amazing tip. Your probably right and many people didnt know this
Great Insight !!!
Yo bro saved me so much time 🎧 sounds so much better 🎧✌🏽 thank you
Super helpful!
Also keep in mind bro, it says "use control room out for monitoring. so you wont affect the master output signal". So we have to reroute the master out cables back to the big meter to get the correct signal to the exported file. Control room out is just like a interface so to say but for the engineers.
Good to know I will keep that in mind!
Bro 🙏 great information, 🔥 thanks bro!
Thanks for coming by 🙏🏾🙏🏾
Thats what brings read the MANUAL....long time ago i used to.
GREAT vid...BLESSINGS💯✨!!!
Reasons is the closest thing to working in a studio environment. Reasons is a engineers software, and rack gear enthusiast. Works perfect with any outboard MIDI gear and hard disk recorders. If you trying to work like your in a studio environment this is the software to use.
thank you i just try it, excellent
Awesome! Thanks for watching!
I also realised that, in the master section, I should be using the input knobs to mix, rather than the volume faders. Those apparently are for automation and sound design stuff.
Not exactly. You want to use the input knobs for gain staging, but still use the volume faders for mixing. The reason is because the input knobs control the signal strength of the incoming signal, and then any processing you want is applied to it. Then, the volume faders control the volume AFTER the processing takes place. If you have a part that you don't want to be very loud, but you still want to have effects on it, it is better to apply the effects to the strong signal and then turn it down. Many effects are optimized for strong input signals.
There is one big reason to why the Master Outs are wired to the audio outs as default, Channels 1 and 2 on the Audio Output is what is rendered on export, so if you wire up your Control Room out that is what will be rendered and not from the Master out.
Control Room Level, this will attenuate or boost the signal, this means you can push the signal above 0db and even in the video you could hear it totally distort.
Make good use of your Volume level on your external hardware amp\device.
The Control Room out is handy for monitoring the Sends and Returns as you can do that separately and for my personal setup I use the Control Room out for my monitoring chain.
Yes, that’s a very important point about rewiring control room to ch1&2!
I always have my master wired to 1&2 and control the monitor level from my audio interface instead, so that the master out is always unaffected by my monitor levels.
I don’t have any amps to boost sound so this helps me 🤷🏾♂️. Plus when I’m on my laptop the extra dbs really come in handy.
I think the Scarlett is cool but I always end up cranking the headphone volume to the max.
I have decent headphones as well but idk just need a bit more volume sometimes.
I’m learning a lot from all the comments though please keep going. And thanks for watching and contributing means a lot 😁
@@Chrisreedbeats Having to crank the headphone output on your Scarlett is probably more to do with what Ohms your headphones are. I have a pair of Beyerdynamic DT990Pro 250 Ohm and I have to crank the volume much higher than on my AudioTechnica ATH-M50X which I believe are only 80 Ohms - I have the same interface as you.
@@Tyblubearboy hmmm we have the same headphones and interface. Do you ever feel like you need to crank your Audio TMH50x volume up or do they sound pretty good at lower volumes?
@@Chrisreedbeats the Audio-Technicas sound good at lower volumes as their impedance is only 38 Ohms apparently. So the lower the impedance the less you have to drive them. Plus they are a closed back headphones so block out outside noise. Unlike my dt-990 which are open back. On the Scarlett, the headphone knob I usually have between 9 o’clock & 11 o’clock position with the ATs and between 1 o’clock and 3 o’clock with the DT990s
thanks for this video!
My pleasure!
Great video by the way!!! So do you just keep it on control room out period? Even when you export? I'm struggling with my mixing in reason 11 and I'm trying any and everything to get my overall sound right smh!
Naw I use my control room out for OBS audio. Just thought this was interesting to read it in Reason manual. You have to reroute to main audio output on export
This is a very helpful video.
In Windows 10 there is a Screan recoreder and records the Screan and Audio from the selected program window, it does not capture the entire screen and also does not capture VSTs. This has its advantages and disadvantages but the audio capture is the audio you hear while recording.
hmmm I have never tried the windows 10 screen recorder. Might have to give that a look through.
@@Chrisreedbeats It captures in HD I believe and audio is identical to what you hear in your headphones.
It's like the Listen Bus in other DAWs such as Studio One. Not a big deal if you don't use it.
Thanks Chris 🙏🔥
Appreciate you Post
There's a manual??!! Great info matey :)
😂😂😂
you posted this just in time because it'll come in handy when using hardware effects inside reason
Blaze! Good to see you! What kind of hardware effects??
I switch to CTRL out every time I start a project. I send the master outs to an EQ, and route it back to the Master side chain and roll off the bass to the compressor.
Good video. In my low volume environment I can ride that master hard yet keep the volume very low so as not to disturb others.
Interesting !! I recently change my whole templates ! nice
Boom! Learned something. Nice!
Not Quasar in the comments!!! 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾 I’m constantly learning from your channel bro
@@Chrisreedbeats Glad to hear that, man! Subscribed!
After installing OBS my mic channel 1 stopped receiving signal on my Apollo Twin x do you know what I might have done wrong?
Thank you
Cool thanks man.
In reality, there's no right or wrong , there's only creative way to do things :) Whatever sounds and feels best for the creator, - who cares how it's done ?
Sure, I agree with you. Reason is the kind of program that "how it's done" is the most intriguing and special part :-) There are so many patching and cabling options and it's just that extra layer of functionality that makes it extraordinary.
Very interesting! I've never realized this. Like you said, I've always gone from master out into some sort of compressor or limiter before hitting the output 1 and 2. This sounds like a way to get some more clean digital head room. My thought process is what is the difference between this and just turning up the volume to your monitors on your interface? Maybe it is a lot cleaner sounding since you dont have to turn up the volume on monitors and bring in any unwanted noise?
This has definitely got me thinking. I mainly use Protools now, but reason is still useful and very fun to use. Thanks for the video!
Alot of people absolutely did not know this. Thanx
Hell naw that upped my game big tyme
The sample inputs are also for recording on audio tracks.
When I do this, as I wanted to use restream to see how it works :) the plugin doesn't register the sound in OBS but does in Reason. any idea what I am doing wrong, it works in Ableton though. Thanks
is it wrong to crank up the volume of the rack if the instrument is too low? Also whats the correct volume on your computer for music prod cuz i usually put it around 80 -90 percent.
Thanks
You need the master out bus to check for clipping and attenuation, this feature wasn’t in the older versions of reason
It will help my mixes
For anyone who's ever worked in a real studio this is very obvious as its how a real mixer works. You should read the manual on the whole mixer, its very complex but much more like a real console than any of the other DAWs virtual mixing screens. I suggest you sidechain the bus compressor with a filter so it works better on bass heavy signals, another real-world trick you can do with Reason.
Good tip 👍🏾🙏🏾💪🏾
Sef In The Building!👊🏾
If you have an external volume knob though...it doesn't matter. In 5 years, I think I've touched the Master Fader all of once. Unless you've got a big console in front of you that you need to go to 2 different pairs of monitors, or a headphone amp...it really doesn't matter.
Thank you, my lazy self got too comfortable with Pro Tools. I wish I had access to these kinda tutorials back in 2013
Stumbled on this video looking for a tutorial for tracking Battery4 in Reason but I’m glad I found this. Instant sub. Keep up the good works brother! 💯
Nice observation! Gonna test this out when I get back in the studio. #reasongang
WAIT ! OBS?! dude! I gotta try that with OBS!! I have that AND your same audio device
How to add DAW Audio to OBS FAST!
th-cam.com/video/2n_WLKMTC7c/w-d-xo.html
This video shows the set up
when i use a redrum, how do i make each of the 10 drums go to different faders on the white colored mixer? (not the dark gray one) if i put 10 drums in a redrum it all goes to one fader on the mixer & i hate that, so I always make a new redrum for EACH DRUM (crazy inefficient for your CPU) & i've been doing that for 20 years (lol) is there a quick & easy way to make each drum go to a different fader, so I don't have to make a new redrum for each drum I put in the beat?
Well I'll be darned, here I was creating a bus that acted like a control monitor...welp
Patch work and patch cables. FUN FUN FUN!
There is nothing wrong with using the master output; adjusting the master fader because the monitoring levels are too high or too low is a beginners mistake, you should be adjusting the levels at the monitoring system anyways… it should be common sense. The use case for the control room output is if adjusting the physical monitoring system is impractical/inaccessible/etc
chris i have a question not regarding the control volume but about midi clips in a project. Is it necessary to convert midi to audio once a project is done before and or after finalizing the mix?
reason why i ask is cause I often see in a reason project i would be working on and even though not done completing the song and not finalized. I get a message on the screen about midi over flow, does that mean i'd have to take all my midi files in that project and convert it into audio?
I only saw this error when doing a lot of automation? I think it can be different for everyone’s computer. If something is preventing you from getting the result you want then absolutely do this work arounds.
I would replicate the project file and see if I get the error every time or maybe it was just a bug. Also your midi controller can play a part in it. Lots of different things.
@@Chrisreedbeats the midi controller I use with reason is the Nektar Panorama P4 and I am now looking to get a 25key midi controller whenever travel I can bring a midi controller and my laptop fire up reason and work on music on the go.I was looking at the alesis vi25 midi controller and the arturia minilab midi controller.
2:54 DUH......This is exactly how the real world hardware works....😂
Isn't Reason amazing!
I just use my PC's "master" volume. I guess this would be useful in a more complex setup or if your monitors are ridiculously low in volume?
Well yes and no. Most times your pc master volume will max out and not push your music beyond a certain level. With the control room out you can push the full volume of the track even further for playback purposes.
how to bounce in a track inside the reason daw what you play on another track in a vet while playing with the parameters?
I was doing right :) but I've found issues with the metronome with "right" setting.
Yea the metronome is not in the Control room volume unfortunately hahaha, maybe its not "right" after all
Man you just solved the main thing I was hating about mixing in reason....the dammm clipping...there you go....boom!
Ive had no problems with the current setup!!
Awesome glad to hear it 🙏🏾
@@Chrisreedbeats Thanks ive only just had Reasons+ for a few weeks and works great in use with Bitwig. Cheers mate...
Thanks. :-)
Thanks for watching!
@@Chrisreedbeats 👍
Good Stuff
as far as the control room out you must've start using reason yesterday
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Best comment I have seen in a while 😂😂😂
I have done this and it is great. However when you export the song, your VU meter won't match. The track will be too quiet. That was what I experienced.
Hello Chris can you please say how i can sample input sound in Reason? i record, but this record sound from my monitors, i just want sample some stuff from internet resources like TH-cam etc... and just want to sample input sound
Hey answered this question on my live stream last night Reason News, Q&A and Review Your Music Live! | 2024
th-cam.com/users/live3RRKVdICv8E?feature=share
awesome Video
Thanks for watching!
So if you are to leave the Master bus in terms of input channeling, why is there a pair of jack ports on them? Genuine question! Just wanna know what its purpose is…..
I instead use my “usb output level” which I luckily have on my board. I also have multiple auxes which I will occasionally use. I strive to leave the master fader alone. I don’t reroute the signal path to preserve the render. It’s always best, in my opinion, to “set and forget” the master fader after you’ve properly gain staged your mix. That said, if you do opt for the ctrl room outs, it’s equally important to have good VU metering. Sadly, Reason doesn’t do this well as the SSL VU on the board is not current with modern music platform requirements. I hope they rectify it with maybe some selectable views (between rms and lufs for example) on their mix bus meter.
I use the audio interface mixer to adjust the monitoring volume.
So wait, should we be exporting audio with control room out connected or master out?
It doesn't matter for the export. The exported signal will always be the master out signal - even if there are no cables connected there.
How are you able to access the "application zoom" at 4:43? I don't have that option available in my Reason ...
Update your Reason to the latest version.
Thats a brilliant info - using Resaon in live jam sessions, this makes a whole lot of difference, TY
That’s a cool option, but would it not be the same if we created a couple buses and routed them to our master? Not trying to be smart, truly curious. Or would we lose certain options by not using the control room?