My Boyfriend Doesn't Think I'm Worth Marrying
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Girl, you gotta have the marriage discussion before you have his kids. You went and had two kids with him. Many people do things backwards nowadays.
yup get the commitment up front before you start having a bunch of kids.
This⏫️
Agreed
And let’s say the first child was unplanned, why have a second before you get the commitment? People think having kids are a sure way to get to marriage and it’s not. So sad. No one wants to buy the cow when you can get the milk for free.
Yes
Don’t be a wife to someone who isn’t willing to make you a wife
For all we know she doesn’t act like a wife…
Didn’t hear the Man’s side
@@prod.saiyan4863 you did hear she doesn't work right ? So she is having me taking care of your kids, cleaning the house etc
@@prod.saiyan4863 why would you make a woman who doesn't act like a wife the mother of your children through 🥴
@@shelbysycamore637why would you have kids by someone you aren't married too. Why the hell do we do these things
@@mschaiemefor all we know that was her choice. She might just be the poor decision maker tbh 🤷♂️
This is one reason why having kids outside of marriage is such a disaster.
But society shouts “Shut up! We can do whatever we want and flee from the consequences of our actions as if they never happened! “ and all the sheep nod their head in agreement.
It won't improve until we end no-fault divorce I'm afraid.
@@Kivlorfuck that, you ain’t ending nothin. If a person doesn’t want to stay in a relationship then that’s it. It’s not like it gets them out of the responsibility of taking care of a potential child/paying child support.
And that would even solve y’all’s “issue”. No fault divorce deals with issues while IN a marriage, OP is talking about a situation OUTSIDE of marriage.
This is why religion of Islam is strictly forbid and against this boyfriend girlfriend thing because the woman lose in case of separation it's just sad in the Western country's when you talk about getting married before doing it people look at you like you lost your mind or u are from the moon...
But it prevents alimony anymore. After a split, she could get child support, but likely nothing else.
Girl, she knows exactly what she would tell her daughter…she just doesn’t want to admit it to herself.
Exactly what I said. she just doesn't want to say it to herself. But that is always my 'Go-to'. What would I tell my daughter.
Exactly what I thought as well.
He has no plans to get married. She knows the answer. Get a job first, then walk away. Leave his butt.
💯
Facts
Ladies, this is why you NEVER have children out of wedlock!!!
So if the condom breaks, do you think it's better to 💀 the baby? Because accidents happen. 🙄
So many young female idiots out there!!!! I am 77 year old lady….ask me how I know…😢
@southerngypsy1894 In some cases yes, it's better for everyone for a potential child not to be born. Do you think this child will be cared for in the best way possible? These people are indefinitely not in a financial or emotional state to take care of another person.
@@Samurai-zh1jfAre you serious? You would rather a baby be aborted. How about getting a job and take care of your baby or better yet, don't have sex..
Yep, 100%.
Never let a man tell you twice that he doesn't want you...Judge Lynn Toler. PERIOD
She is amazing
What if he wants to marry you religiously but not legally?
@@mohamedsaid9416 in the states that might be the same.
Facts.
@@mohamedsaid9416 don't marry him, because why would you not want the person you love to be legally protected in the worst possible case scenario? Very odd.
She won't even be able to collect social security on his work record. She's lost years in her employment record, years of equity building, years when she could have been in a relationship with someone who would treat her well.
He dodged a bullet not marrying her. She's thinking solely about finances.
But she can still make a new life, a good life.
You mean fund her lifestyle? That's not the same as treating someone well
She could still work and raise kids. Many women do that.
There are 32 forms of BC she could have used to or even having kiddies. So she and other Skirts who have them before marriage, did it intentionally.
Unfortunately a lot of them point the finger at everyone else and not themselves for choosing to have kiddies out of wedlock. And all of a sudden they wonder why they're not getting a full commitment from a person who never tied the knot with them
When you choose to have kiddies without the commitment of marriage, you made your own bed, and now you must sleep in it.
I know a man who was strung along for years, then she left him and was married within months. He was devastated. A builder who worked for my mother. He confided in her. Leave fast. He will marry, just not you.
First comes love,
Then comes marriage.
Then comes the baby in the baby carriage.
We sang this as kids.
That makes too much sense man! So many people want a complicated, sophisticated, or modern approach. Marriage is just a piece of a paper right? Oh the web we weave. I hope this girl makes the right decisions, whatever that is. God bless her and give her wisdom!
Then came FEMINISM, and now women destroy all their marriages.
Lust got the better of them
In America they do backwards.
@@AnonymousU0 "Marriage is just a piece of paper." is what my nephew always told everybody. I asked him how a grown @ss man could be so scared of "...just a piece of paper."
She'd better start planning how to support herself and kids. Once he finds the woman he WANTS TO MARRY, he will be out the door in a flash.
Stop promoting single mom hood
@@truebengalsfanI agree! I do not promote women having children outside of a stable, healthy marriage but she has already gotten herself into that situation so, like many others, now needs to deal with the reality.
@@carlaritchie331 stay at home mom sounds pretty stable
@@truebengalsfan not sure how you figure a stay-at-home mom is stable, especially if she is depending on the man and not having her own money. This woman is not in a stable situation. He can leave at any time and as she stated she doesn't have the money to support herself
@@kaycon4823 to be a stay at home mom you have to be in a stable situation unless your living off of child support or Uncle Sam
Same position I was in....waited 8 years and decided I would rather be single than stay with someone that didn't feel I was worth the "risk"
Did they try and fight to get you back?
You could have proposed, or asked sooner than 8 yrs into it.
Did you offer to sign a prenup? I can't imagine why any man wouldn't require one before marriage. Alimony and child support has caused so much harm to relationships.
@@Chet_24If your girl needs to propose, you're not a man.
@@Chet_24 If a woman needs to propose to force a decision either way (which may or may not be honoured in any case) it doesn’t bode well
Bless her heart. Made herself financially dependent on her boyfriend. Girl, there are things you should only do for a husband.
No. You shouldn't do that for anyone. A husband can leave you, beat you, financially abuse you, etc. same as a boyfriend.
I really hope she’s in a state that allows for common law unions, if only so she and the kids get some support after he leaves her
@janise01 it's better if he's your husband though so you can get half
Even then...
@@janise01There are laws to protect the wife. Not the girlfriend.
Marry before you carry
Never marry a woman! You ladies wanted your feminism, now you got it.
Lol that doesnt help all the guys who married and didnt get kids and still got a divorce..
Or women who got married and the husband left her.
@@KVG822 statistically, women initiate divorce 80-90% of the time. (So it's mostly women leaving men)
@@KVG822 But usually those guys get absolutely destroyed in divorce court and the next woman should care/find out why he left but they dont care
She knows what she would tell her daughter, but she doesn't want to say it out loud yet.
You can tell by her pause and her later comments. She was already living like a house wife, so giving up that would be a big loss.
Facts
Never marry a woman. It's called FEMINISM. Women got what they wanted, now stop complaining.
Exactly. If a situation like this isn’t good enough for her daughter it then it shouldn’t be good enough for her either.
Exactly she knew what to say
I'm 65, single, no kids. Make about 55,000 a year. My parents divorced when I was 11. Substance abuse and some violence and emotional abuse. I decided that I didn't need that. I probably won't be as happy as I could have been but I won't be as miserable either.
Love that part about the little 4-yr old girl watching momma to be a Warrior Princess!
Girlllllll my ex was trying to pressure me into having several children with him without being marrying or even finding us an apartment to live in. No ring for me, no children for him, no relationship for either of us.
Good for you!
Unfortunately not all women are smart like you. Too many like this caller will give a man all the benefits of a wife and then wonder why he won’t marry her later. After he already has all the benefits of a wife and absolutely nothing to gain.
😂
SMART GIRL
@@Shaolin91zexactly. Might as well have stayed and had the kids.
If a man won't marry you, but wants to stay with you, then he's waiting until someone "better" comes along (words from my husband of 22 years). I'm sorry, sister. Someone will love you
It's time to move on.
Big facts right here. I was that guy till Jesus changed my life around. Praise God
Not true. I've met many men that are in the never again crowd because they've been scarred before by a divorce.
@@glitter4592 - I agree that they should be upfront about it
or maybe he just doesnt want the government in his finances. Men lose a lot in divorce (child support, alimony, his assets and pension). If he doesnt marry he only has to pay child support if they break up
@@glitter4592 I agree he should make it known up front. But make no mistake every women wants the ability to cheat/walk out and get paid for it. Even if they never actually do it. Men are not getting married anymore. Actually a lot of wealthy people are not getting married like Taylor swift and leonardo dicaprio. Britney spears on the other hand is getting divorced AGAIN and is probably going to lose a lot. Some people never learn. And if johnny depp gets married again he's and idiot. The truth is the only way to be safe in marriage is to only marry someone that has the same amount of wealth as you. Only marry in the same class. And even then men will still loose because assets are often split 60%-80% in the women's favor. The best thing to do is to just not get married unless they make more money than you but women already follow this rule for the most part. Marriage is 100% about money and nothing else. Marriage is dead.
You were very sweet to this broken hearted lady. Thank you for your kindness shown to her. That will not go unnoticed.
So, my wife and I have been MARRIED for over 49 years. We were both virgins when we wed, and proud of it! We were engaged for ~13 months, as I was military, stationed 1500 miles away from where she lived, so we courted via letters, after dating for about a year in college. We have three grown children, who themselves are married, parents, and successful in their own careers.
My wife's encouragement was what got me to pursue training as a Physician Assistant, a career from which I have now retired. So what Dave says about financial advantages of being married, is TRUE - at least in our case.
We were forced into developing our own marriage, independent of close monitoring from outside, as my military assignments never had us really close to either set of parents. Now that all the parents have passed, we know what we have in each other. I would NEVER trade what we have, what we've experienced, for anything!
Beautiful!
Congratulations that's beautiful and wonderful! ✨
Different generations with different values.
In today's world, your woman would likely be cheating on you and if you discover she will attempt to gaslight you into thinking that she's justified to do so, because you abandoned her & she's lonely.
- I go to church with one military wife.
- She was constantly paying attention to me & attempting to flirt with me, while her husband was deployed.
- I was completely disgusted by what she was attempting to do and refused to attempt anything with her.
- After he came back & I met him, he seemed like a good reasonable guy.
I tell you, many people (both men & women) today are just not content with what they have!
TMI
@@kingdele01 man uses anecdotes as if that means something
Was in a long engagement, we finally married and he passed away a yr later. We did have children together. If we had not been married I wouldn’t have been able to have a say on many things that are involved, nor entitled to what we built together. The order of a relationship is so important!
Younger people simple do not understand what you've said, unfortunately.
This is where I am! Boyfriend retired 2 years ago, house is in his name and my income goes in his account as he handles all the finances which I’m great with but he had a heart attack shortly after retirement and I realized if he dies, I’m homeless, no way i could have even gotten my money out of the bank, no benefits for me so I’m SCREWED! I literally nursed him back to health and cried to him in sheer panic and we’re no closer to marriage today than 7 years ago or 2 years ago! I know I’m the idiot here but how do you walk away from someone you love! The kicker is I recently lost my $60K a yr job so unexpectedly and can’t find anything in my field and I see a huge shift not only from financial stress but I don’t feel he even loves me 10% enough to even consider marriage!! I’m 50 years old now and yet again scared I’m going to be homeless and alone!!!!! I’m stupid but pretty in tune about what is going on! Ready to GIVE UP!
I get it
Prayers🙏🏼❤️🔥🙏🏼
Well said.
SIGH…ladies PLEASE stop having babies with these men that think you’re good enough to lay up with but not marry. If a man never wants to marry that is by all means his prerogative and doesn’t make him a bad person but these are the types of discussions that need to come BEFORE the babies!
Agreed!
If you don't want to commit to mother of your child, you are not a man. You are a little boy. (This obviously does not apply if she is abusive, drug addict, etc...raise the kid yourself. Either way, be a man)
more importantly, don't be that woman who's not worth marrying. be the woman that's worth marrying.
@@royhammel5205 Totally agree.
Please stop stealing our futures in divorce court 😡
Boyfriend has the best of both worlds, he lives a married life without the legal obligations on paper.
I divorced at 32 with an 18 mo old and 5 year old. Dated 7 years, married for 10 years. He was my world but the marriage was toxic. My career made it possible to leave. 4 years later I met my husband of 21 years…life is better than I could have ever imagined. It’s never too late to start over and leave a situation where you are taken advantage of/emotionally and financially abused.
Woman, you've been ran through by every man out there! That's nasty. What happened to shame smh 🤦♂️
You’re from a different time. Males don’t want marriage anymore they just want to run the streets and only when they have ED and a debilitating health condition do they want to marry a young woman to be their nurse
Its cause you look like a ball buster.
@lauragb3677, feelings wise who meant more to you, the first husband or the second husband? You can be honest no one knows you here.
@@rpcp5v18 my 2nd husband without question, our relationship is so good and fun, nurturing and supportive. We really care about each other’s happiness. We have helped each other raise kids from our first marriages, but never had kids together- as a blended family of 4 kids were plenty. However, because I had kids with my first husband and I love my sons so much, the sadness and guilt I feel that they had to suffer through the divorce, custody schedule and even now juggle holiday dinners, NEVER goes away. That sting of failure is forever present, at least for me. And I am happy to say my ex husband is happily remarried to someone better suited for him. So for the adults, life is better, but our children paid a huge price. We were just too young to marry and see the ways we were NOT compatible- and those ways are still the same today.
I like the question Dave asks " in 20 years your daughter is 24 asking the same thing, what do you tell her". That's perfect, she would advise her daughter to leave and find someone who loves her. So sad 😢
Who's gonna want a broke single mom? One of the kids is an infant.
@@micclay there are lots of Good men out there that would love a women with qualities they are looking for. She isn't done and destitute just because a few bad decisions.
@@sweettoothmomma2621 only bottom of the barrel men with zero self respect are gonna take on a woman with an infant.
@@micclay single moms get marries all the time.
Brilliant question..
“My boyfriend doesn’t think I’m worth marrying” is enough to say don’t marry that guy.
That's the truth! 👏👏👏
I’m in the exact same boat and have tears streaming down my face from the support and strength these gentlemen reminded her she had. Thank you deeply for this and for showing us some men truly have integrity, honor and are excited to commit and build a family and partnership.
Dave is amusing but very wrong on this issue. Marriage right now is financial Russian roulette. Women get divorced 70 percent of the time. Usually, before 5 years, 7 years at the longest. The best prenup in America is too never get married. It's cheaper to pay child support than losing half your networth and pay alimony.
sweetheart, you girls picked these guys, silly mistakes, you trusted him!!!
@@chattingman6777 and you are trying to explain that to the women who benefit from this anomaly ? lool they will pretend they don't get it. MEN SHOULD NOT LISTEN TO SIMP DAVE WHEN IT COMES TO RELATIONSHIP ADVICE. He is living literally in the dark ages
well grace, you are cute so the fact that the guy doesn't want to marry you makes me realize you may have some serious issues. Are you crazy or throw tantrums ? I mean, there must be SOMETHING wrong with you that's putting him off.
Grace!! Your comment broke my heart. I genuinely wish the best for you, you got this!
Poor thing😢....Ladies STOP letting these men DEVALUE you and your WORTH
Yup, men are not stupid. Dont have any kids for a man who doesnt marry you.
they do it themselves, spreading em legs open...aint nobody tellem too!😂😊
well that is the type of guys she wants. I bet she goes with the bad boys and that makes her feel good... The guy did the wrong thing and so did she. She choosed badly
@@QuanHoang2x01 Hard to not choose badly when most men are inherently not good men lol
@@shawnlove4502You skipped the nice guy.
Don’t let a man tell you he doesn’t want you more than once
I don’t want you
I don’t want you
🖕🏼
Don’t try to guilt trip a man into marriage by having his children
@@prod.saiyan4863 did she rape him? Or was he a willing participant in intimacy which ALWAYS carries a potential of having a child. The mental gymnastics is wild
@@prod.saiyan4863it makes me wonder if she baby trapped him tbh. Like she quit her job and got knocked up?! I’m wondering if she was dating above her league and now she thinks this is a good way to lock him down
@@prod.saiyan4863 don't trap a woman and exude power over her by giving her your children
I broke up with someone I loved and I broke his heart because he didn’t want to marry me. He kept asking why. Because I have standards. It’s called Ego Strength.
Wow, what a disguising admission but doesn’t surprise me coming from a modern woman
I’d bet you’re still not married either
If he was that heartbroken… he knew what you wanted and that it was a dealbreaker.
he loved you and you left hahahah you messed up. all for a ring and and wedding to show off to your friends that barely even care for you.
@@ugabuga1361 Meh. He needed a mother at the end of the day (probably like you.) That’s not worth the ring no matter how much someone says he loves you.
he didnt allow you to divorce rape him. Good for him.
We got married in Vegas. :) But we DID have a 6 month engagement -19+ years later we're still together.
I pray she hears the truth of what her partner is telling her. He did not stutter. He expressly told her he doesn't value her. May she have the strength and support to put herself first and LEAVE.
The most telling moment in the conversation is at 2:13, when Dave asks her, "Twenty years from now, your daughter is 24 and she asks you this question. What do you tell her?" The caller is dead silent for nine seconds before responding, "I don't know." She does know. She's just not ready yet to admit it to herself.
That dead air was maddening.
Yeah
Seriously I thought the phone had hung up.
marriage is a trap for most men, 80% of marriages end because the woman. these two guys got lucky because their wives are actually loyal. a girl being loyal is as rare now a days as being a conservative in California.
So what? What's best for the woman is marriage, what's best for the man is not.
A lot of men nowadays want to get all the benefits of women without any of the investment or commitment. I used to wonder how women would fall for it, but I’ve had two men try to pull that stunt with me and it took me weeks to figure it out. One straight out told me on our first date that he didn’t believe in love and marriage, and wanted me to cook/massage/give a son to him as his 3rd baby mother. I blocked him right after. Another guy I was dating was stalling making us official due to “being hurt” and after two months said that he wanted to keep going out with me as “friends”. Blocked him right after.
Cut him off!
"All the benefits of women" LOL! what benefits? Divorce? There's only one benefit to having a woman and we all know what it is. Thank God fewer and fewer men are marrying women. You ladies wanted your feminism, now you got it.
Definitely not a lot of good candidates anymore. Paint or get off the ladder people!
Women rejected patriarchy so men are no longer on playing that role anymore why do you think men are no longer committing since huge numbers anymore and why should they it isn't much benefit I could was back in the day
If more women were like you, we wouldn't have so many problems!
God doesn't want your thanks. God is pro-marriage. He created sex for marriage. @@mgtowcowboy8159
Elizabeth created this problem by living with him outside of marriage + having kids. Now she is backed into a corner and has no wiggle room.
You are trying to make it sound like people who get married and then have children NEVER end in divorce. That's a heaping pile of dung. You need to spend more time listening to the Ramsey show! You make it sound like there is no hope. You would not be a good friend. She has more strength and smarts than she realizes, and she will figure it out. I thought I was in the same position before too. I found my way out, and so have many others. Where there is a will, there is a way.
@@backtoasimplelifeExactly! So many quick to judge from their high horse. They really need to STFU and fix their own misery.
She’s not backed into a corner. Are you slow?!! If you listened to the episode, they explained very well how she can create an exit plan. Try opening your ears and listening better.
That lady did create this problem and backed herself into a corner. She made things hard for herself. You all are delusional with your comments.
And if you marry as a man you are backed into a corner.
Divorce will ruin you while the woman carries on with a new partner.....
Start working, first step. I'm not into marriage myself, but if you have nothing yourself, you do need marriage for your own safety. Personally, I will never give up working for anyone.
She hears what John says her boyfriend is telling her, and she's thinking, "but now I have two kids with this guy; I hope this isn't true!" It's true. This is why you don't make kids outside of a marriage commitment! You damage you, AND you damage your kids!
And that last part is the most damning part
She should put the kids in foster care and move on … tons of women did this back in the day of they had kids they had as teens,biracial,financial issues… cut your losses and go it’s a sad situation but it is what it is
Yah because your judgment is really going to help her. People aren’t perfect. You don’t know what led her there. Empathy and compassion matter!
I don’t have kids. I’m not in that position but I have empathy and compassion for those that do. Judgement solves nothing! Empathy does!
@@debfoxuse your brain. This video has 200,000 views and 3,000 comments. Dave broadcasts and youtubes these stories for ALL of us to discuss and learn from. If I was writing my comment to the caller, then I would not have started with the word "she". DUH!
Empathy does nothing. Suggest a dictionary dude. Empathy is YOU getting in your "FEELS" about someone else, be it true or bull shit. Compassion dear idiot, is YOU DOING something about your empathy. Though generally it is not compassion but PITY. @@debfox
I hope this woman finds a job, saves money and plans her escape. She is worth it. I love this show.
It’s not about her, it’s about the kids now
The grass aint always greener on the other side. Especially when ur draggin 2 small kids behind u😂. No hard working respectable man will ever take her and her kids and marry her. Shes looking for a sucker and a simp🤷♂️
Women with your attitude are the exact reason why men won't get married in the first place. We know it's only a matter of time before you "plan your escape".
No, she’s not worth it. Who needs a woman who made poor decision to have kids outside marriage, then expects some other dude to take care of this mess. No thank you
@@DontBowToEvilAre you worth it? 🤔
I’m in the same boat and as soon as I started doing better financially he started asking me for my money. Sometimes it’s better to leave first because my situation has turned into financial abuse.
It's in situations like this that make me so thankful that my mother and my grandparents and my aunt instilled in me to be financially independent before I ever got into a relationship and also to make sure that I have my own money even in a relationship because you never know when a relationship will split up and you never want to be up the creek without a paddle financially, not being able to take care of yourself or your kids
My aunt told me, “Meja, you’re not the first and you won’t be the last.” I had my daughter alone but with family support. She sees her mom doing her best and learning that women deserve to be loved and not used.
You had a child out of wedlock…
You quite literally showed her you can be used
You are correct! No one deserves to be used. However, people will use you, if you put yourself in a position to be used.
Basically, I estimate that 95% of men who are attempting to get involved with you are not willing to commit to you or marry you, especially the ones with the best looks, game, humor & personality.
Why pop out 2 kids without being married first is beyond me.
well life happens but its a good reminder that sex before marriage is always, always hurtful to women.....it can destroy you ....today's world everybody thinks sex is automatic for a couple even dating a couple of times....its insanity.....just start being virtuous and I guareentee that the guy you get will be well, well worth it....
She loves him
You must not have kids
@@manylaughs9002 in about 2 years I will after I get married this September. I grew up in NYC and saw rampant amounts of people with kids before marriage or before they got their finances in order. It was not a pretty sight from teenagers with kids up to early 20s with kids. I held off on having kids until I felt that I was financially prepared as well as mature enough to be a parent.
@@dnah02 I totally agree with you! I thought the same thing before I got married, I’ll have a child 2 years after being married also thought I needed to be more mature, financially stable, and mentally capable (since it seems stressful). Fast forward 7 years later makes me realize I may not want any, not because of my husband (he'd be great) but because I definitely realize I’m too selfish, I value my peace, sleep, etc.
Anyway, It's rare nowadays when you see people plan before having kids, I applaud you.
I met my wife and one week later I asked her to marry me and 2 months latter we got married. We have been together for 18 years. We love each other more than ever.
My parents divorced when I was 3 because they were too young and stupid to have a real relationship together. I learned from their mistakes and married when I was 27, 3-years after college, making over 50k with an established career path - married over 21 years, first marriage to a woman that doesn't believe in divorce. I met her via a mutual friend - not in a bar.
She has pretty much given up all her leverage. Why have kids with the guy and let him move in?
Sounds like she's a homeless woman who would do anything for food and shelter.
She was trying to use the kids to apply pressure on the dude to marry. Disgusting tactic. Now, let her eat cake.
@@Kaktus965 And the ones who pay the highest price of these 2 selfish, damaged, parents are the kids. Not much talk about that in the comments.
Ladies, if y’all live together and he doesn’t want to marry you? He is keeping one foot out the door. And if someone loves you, why WOULDN’T they want to marry you? My husband and I were so happy to marry each other. Best decision we ever made. 15 years and still going. ❤
Congratulations!
However, not all people have the same situation.
Agreed. Men who don't commit but want the privileges of commiting are basically saying they want to keep the back door open if someone or something better comes along.
@@lovetobe6118 and women who demand marriage want the backdoor IRA to collect when something better comes along. Like the UPS man.
@@lovetobe6118 So basically the same thing married women do? Play house until a better man comes along and then steal half his shit in divorce? Lol, no thanks.
@@multimeter2859 luckily divorce rate where I live is like 3% so both the men and women are very happily and safely married.
Steve Harvey said it best, don't make him tell you twice that he doesn't want you.
This is a man who really loves and respects women and what they provide. So rare to see.
Very few females in America provide much that men value. Very few females in America are respectable. Only 30% of young men between 20-30 are bothering to even engage in a romantic relationship right now. The big reason is because there is very little benefit to a man in America to be in a romantic relationship with a modern American female. The best plan for young men is to focus on making money, then, when they have enough income, get a passport and find a humble female in a third-world country that knows how to be a real wife.
I used that excuse: “I’m worried about money if I walk away”. Let me tell you my perspective 25 years later. He left anyway; my income dropped by 75% and I had put my kids through he((. Huge regrets but I made it! Leave him NOW. You’ll figure it out.
You mean HIS income that you benefited from. You are "strong and independent" now. GET A JOB.
I was thinking it's not going to get easier to leave later.
@@mgtowcowboy8159 shut up
@@mgtowcowboy8159 wrong mentality this is why divorce and single parent homes rate is so high. You’re merging your life with someone else, nothing is no longer yours from that point on.
Both people now have to sacrifice something for the well-being of the relationship and the family. Stay at home mums or mums that don’t work full time to take care of the family and household risk having less experience and no money if the man leaves, it is a massive risk and sacrifice.
@@coconat777 It's crazy that this guy doesn't want to sign a contract that gives someone else a legal claim to everything he owns.
So she made the mistake of having one kid with someone who didn’t want marriage. Then she did it again. Did she think he’d change his mind? Yes she may be somewhat trapped by her situation but let’s be honest, she did it to herself by putting the cart before the horse with someone who never wanted what she did. My PSA to good women everywhere: When he shows you who he is, believe him!!!!
Or try understanding his side and join reality because maybe he really does love you.
He "showed" her who he is by providing, protecting and being there for her and their kids. I don't see the issue. Marriage is just an expense label these days. He is not a jobless bum who is not responsible, lol.
She tried to trap him first, and he did the Uno reverse card
hes probably the guy most women want and can't maintain or try to strong arm, then do what they can do to trap them. who knows, one thing sounds right he's a high value guy or he's got enough papper not to be take advantage of again. we dont know his story only this woman situation.
I know the reverse of this; a woman has two kids with another guy she didn't marry and is with a new guy that wants his own child with her. She won't unless he marries her. But think about that. He has to pay a higher 'cost' than the guy that came before him because more is expected. And this guy, for all intents and purposes treats the first two kids like his own and provides for them. The fact that she wants to hold him to a higher standard than the first is a HUGE red flag.
I just had this conversation with my son the next day he called me to tell me he’s engaged ❤
l feel sorry for him. But engagements can still be annulled. I hope he wises up. mgtow forever
Thank you for asking him to treat a woman with respect! I value that you asked your son for account for his actions.
@@mathisnotforthefaintofheartNo, you feel sorry not everyone validates your hatred of women.
@@northstar2621 Ah cute. A single woman is hailed as a hero. She is an independent effinist and needs no man. But a single man who avoids marriage is viewed in a less favorable spotlight. How ironic.
@@mathisnotforthefaintofheart Oh, the objective rational man reading things into a conversation that were never even said to justify his hatred.
He saves money by having it this way. She is nanny, cleaning lady, with “benefits”, errand runner and the list goes on … with less respect than an employee gets. Have him pay her a salary! Add up 24/7 nanny etc. Know your worth. Don’t let him get away with this because he would not let someone treat him like that.
SO TRUE!
She needs to get paid for her services now!
I know. He would pay a stranger more than the woman who is larping wife for him... crazy.
I agree in principle but she is not in a position of power in order to bargain. She doesn’t have a job or skills (it sounds like that anyway) to back up drawing a line with her boyfriend.
“You need to pay me what I am worth”
“No”
????
She needs to get a skillset and leave.
It is sad, but she did this to herself. She had babies with a man who has made her no promises. She has house room, food and clothes. She was foolish to do this.
Fact is - women lose value over time while men gain value.
Sad but true. She’s got no chips left to bet.
In his defense, she sleeps with him probably as often as he wants and he gets to play house, without any of the actual responsibility, and without any of the financial risk. Why would he want to get married at this point?
When you live in a common law relationship it's not just "playing house" it comes with the exact same set of responsibilities, rights and entitlements. A piece of paper changes nothing.
@@Lon1001 Not all states recognize common law marriage so they may very well be "playing house" without any of the rights or entitlements of marriage.
@@Lon1001 That may be true, but he obviously expressed that or she probably wouldn't be calling.
@@Lon1001 Common law marriage isn't common at all. Last I checked, only 12 states recognise it. so yep, just playing house.
Abusing your partner is something to be ashamed of, not looked up to. Most men do not give sex which could be a prize. The real problem is that she slept with him before marriage. No sex means no kids. Therefore for intelligent women no marriage means no sex. And free milk seekers can go for stupid cows.
The kids make this SO much harder. If it was just boyfriend/girlfriend, and they each had their own money and didn't live together yet...you could end that with a phone call.
Anyone who doesn’t want to marry you, isn’t the person you want either. Life is too short to waste on anyone who can’t see how valuable you are. A real man won’t just take without giving. A real man would never disrespect a woman by just “playing house”.
Why do you need a ceremony and piece of paper to vow to be together for the rest of your life? Vow to yourself and her. Plenty of couples out there not married but happily together until the end of their lives with multiple kids.
I truly hate how people fear the idea of being alone, and just stay with someone who is emotionally abusing them. Society needs to stop villainizing singleness, because it results in these toxic habits. I would rather be happy and content being single for the rest of my life. Over being disrespectful to myself and be with someone that will never fully love me. I feel bad for her and hope she leaves him. It's so not worth it. Also never be fully financially dependent on the other partner.
I agree I've been alone many years. You have to be ok with being with yourself. That so many people don't surprises me.
It has nothing to do with "society" and "social constructs". Ridiculous. Humans evolved to NOT be alone. That is what drives it. Human nature developed over many 1000's of years.
If a person has issues being alone that is a red flag as big as a sheet.
I don't care about any of the stuff you said in the beginning but your last sentence is very true that includes family and a mate too. Different if married but never depend on anyone financially.
Where do you get that people are being real nice for being single for the past 15 years I've seen nothing but singleness being celebrated
The real question I always ask people those situations is why tf would you have kids with out getting married?!
Condom breaks and she won’t abort
The answer to that is desperation. Someone who is desperate NOT to be alone. Desperate not to lose the one they think is right for them.
Because these people are mindless and financially irresponsible to the point where they don't understand what they're doing in life. These people are the type to rack up debt, have a large family and blame everyone for their problems.
She did… so next question
First could have been an accident, the second was a choice lol
The silence after Dave asks her the question about her own daughter speaks volumes
Ladies, when these guys ask you to live together just tell them, “ No. I respect you too much to just live with you”. If he’s not man enough to deal with that then just simply walk away. Stop accepting that these guys want to stay little boys and have you as their mamma!
This is why women need to be firm and express their specific boundaries. No moving in before a ring. No kids before marriage. Have standards!! Just went through this with my boyfriend - now my ex-bf. He asked me to move in with him back in April, 10 months after dating. I said no - I have to be engaged. I have standards. Just had a talk - THE TALK - with him a few weeks back. Saying where is this going. It's been a year. After that - he lost interest and we broke up officially last week. So - he never really wanted to be with me forever.
Some men - like my ex - want to shack up and pretend to play house and hubby/wife - and they will never marry you. They don't ever want to be married - or in his case - he found the women he wanted to marry - she dumped him a few weeks after he asked her dad for her hand in marriage and he hadn't proposed yet - so they are hung on an ex. I only found that out 7 months into the relationship. A similar situation happened before with another guy I was dating. hung up on an ex girlfriend. ask lots of questions ladies and listen very well! don't give anyone more than 6 months. A man knows if he wants to marry you or not within 3-6 months.
@@wookiee27 agree about the true self and mask. Why I said 3-6 months. Your comment is perfect because it sums up the current dating pool - or like I call it - cess pool.
Yes - intelligent men may wait a year or two before proposing. That’s very understandable. Intelligent men and women who are also WISE date for 6 months then check in on the relationship and ask deeper questions. That’s called having open communication with your partner - no one is setting an ultimatum. If you see it that way - then you are either a player, a commitment phobe or not into that woman.
Look - a man of any intelligence level who actually is serious about finding a wife knows if he wants to be with you long term after 6 months. All the male relationship coaches say this and my married male friends do too. And if you don’t know if you want to commit to her after 6 months - why are you wasting that woman’s time? Let her go. Life isn’t a game.
Btw - I’m not speaking marriage at the 6 month mark - just long term plans and goals - If you think it’s manipulative to discuss where things a headed in your committed relationship after dating you exclusively for 6 months - I feel sorry for you and especially for her.
This is what is wrong about current society/culture. I don’t believe in the shack up culture and let’s “see how it goes” in a few years. If I had no standards then I would be moved in with my ex already (he asked me to) and pretending to be his house wife and cleaning up his messes. That’s all he wants - like several other men I know - a maid, sex doll and cook. For free (no ring) 🤣 no thanks 🚫
I know I’m not risking it all on modern women today and with the biased laws towards men there’s no way I would get married, terrible idea for a man.
@@jragon9215 its called a prenup.
@@jragon9215men have much better health when in a healthy relationship. Don't let rhetoric about genders "all women are gold diggerd" etc. Keep you from potentially fonding a great partner to have a full life with
Good. Nobody here wants to see you married if you don't want marriage. Just be sure to tell that to the women you date. That is only fair & don't shack up either. And use protection. If you don't want marriage, that's very ok. Just be up front & HONEST about it. Nobody can fault you for that.
😢😢I don’t understand women who have children without marriage. That’s crazy to be dependent on a boyfriend who has no interest in protecting them.
Welcome to feminist world.
They get pregnant and don't want to have an abortion. Then they feel stuck
I can only speculate (having watched people for the last few decades) that he had no interest in marriage, ever, and having children was a stratigy to keep him legally involved if not emotionally involved. "Any man, under any circumstances is better than no man at all."
yep, she picked him, and she has control over her womb according to democrats.
Nobody says he does not want to protecting them. He is just protecting both, she her children and his own patrimony at the same time. I do not see her urgent or rush in getting married since they have being living ok. This situation and trouble has been brought up by her when trying to changes thing as they have always been since they initiated their relationship.
Dave reminds me of my dad, very practical and logical in his approach to handling life’s difficulties. John reminds me of myself, very tuned in to the reality of people’s messy emotions that cannot be overlooked when solving life’s difficulties. If I were on this team, the biggest hurdle would be the limited amount of time they have to LISTEN to the caller… It takes a lot more time to let someone talk, so you can really dial in on the issue, than these quick conversations allow. And overall, I like when George is on the show because he’s a nice mixture of John and Dave’s personality LOL
Dave: 20 years from now your daughter is 24 and is asking you the same thing what would you tell her.
Her: Baby get married before you have kids.
Why, oh why, do people put themselves in these positions? Having children with someone who wants to make no commitment to you and then you stay home with the children and also forfeit your career, meaning you’re now also stuck financially. You’ve tied 2 anchors to your feet. This goes for whatever gender. I’m not hating on men. I don’t think anyone should do what she did.
People love living in their own misery
you're right, we need to be more responsible. all of this could've been avoided.
My guess is she was in her early 30s and didn't want to wait any longer for a ring but also didn't want to go back on the market to find a new partner as planning children would be another 3 to 4 years away. When women hit their 30s without a partner they start to lower their standards.
I am a stay at home mom, if i could do things differently i would have gotten a career and never had kids and never had to rely on a man. I am teaching my daughter to do things different and using myself as an example...hope she sees and learns
@@sew_gal7340 I'm sure your daughter loves you telling her that you regret ever having her.
A friend of mine met a guy 3 times, he asked her to marry him then he went off on business for 3 months, came home and the wedding was a week later, that was 1974 and they are still married
Family values are very important. People thought i was judgemental when I said that one of my non negotiable standards for a suitor is for him to come from a stable family home. My parents were exemplary models. Far from perfect but as a unit, they have raised my siblings and I well. I wanted a husband who understands the value of the family unit and share my beliefs. Found one, married one, and I tell you, marriage has been a great adventure so far. I have a person who stands by me, who takes risks with me, and who ventures to the unknown with me. We have yet to have children but with or without one, I couldnt imagine life without him.
Unfortunately the modern woman, don't need men
It never was about needing a man. It is about wanting a man who treats a woman with respect @@jamesstpatrick8493
A broken home can be a starting point for someone to really work on their issues. If a person truly does the work, they can leave the past behind and turn out wonderful.
@@jamesstpatrick8493 *Fortunately.....being entirely dependent on another person for financial stability is risky. My grandfather drank his paycheck but back in the good old days there were very few options for my grandmother. Talk to enough older women and you'll hear a million stories of women in bad situations they couldn't afford to leave lest they end up destitute and shamed for a broken marriage
I am not living with any man for years procreating with him and he doesn't want to marry me. Someone please explain to me why are women falling for these situations?
low self esteem
So true, it is so important to model, not only what healthy love looks like but also what healthy conflict resolution in that relationship looks like, what treating a man or a woman in a respectful way looks like. These are the things that set your children up for success later in life with not just romantic relationships but all relationships.
The point made to 'make decisions from a place of strength not weakness' is also very helpful in acknowledging what is influencing your decision making and how your position can be key in making the right one.
The way you two are wrapping this woman in love, and reminding her of her worth, my God. I needed this years ago. Hearing it now is a painful yet beautiful reminder. Elizabeth I hope you’ve gained the strength to press on toward the new life waiting for you. ❤
I heard some men mark their territory by getting their girlfriends pregnant. They know once a woman has a child, it's harder (mentally) for her to leave...no matter how bad you treat her.
I've heard men say that but it's very inconsiderate towards the children.
Exactly...and these dumb women fall into the trap everytime.
@@alluringbliss4165they don’t care about these children.
Women can sleep with any man they want. So pick carefully ladies.
I disagree. Marriage isn’t the end all be all.
I’ve been in a relationship with a woman 7 years, not married. I have worked my whole life for my pension and 7 figure investments . A court would give her half in a divorce, she can live with me in a high quality of life or leave and she has earned and saved nothing in her life. But the tell her that I don’t care or love her is bs! This is the one topic your wrong on Dave Ramsey, she would live in poverty in her last 30 years and I don’t want that when we can be together
So many have the belief that being married is a ball and chain. If it's real love, NOT LUST, it's a freedom with bonuses. (Reminder) true freedom isn't free to do anything you want.
She sounds like she needs a hug and a friend to stand by her side and say, “girl, you can do this.” I hope she gives herself the love she deserves and makes decisions that are best for her and her children.
She sounds like she made some dumb ass decisions and now she’s paying for them…
If she leaves her life will be a disaster
The best decision for her and her Chikdren are to stay where they are taken care of.
Not run off and make everyone’s life harder
@@prod.saiyan4863 I don’t know why you have to reply to my comment because it’s a different opinion than yours. It’s not going to change my mind. Have a good day. 🙄
@@prod.saiyan4863nd be miserable? She does not have to stay
Have an exit plan. I was in a 7 year relationship. I wanted out at 4-5th year. It took me 2 years to leave and I saved up and left. No regrets
Wow, I love these guys encouraging her... I am crying!!!!!!!!!!!
When you have been burned badly by a divorce.... there is real fear of doing it again.
But he’s already doing it again lmao. he has 2 kids with this woman and they live together as a family… he’s already married, might as well make it legal so you can reap the benefits from that
if they get married SHE'LL reap the benefits, for sure. Him, not so much. He got all the best parts of marriage without the threat of biased-against-men Family Court hanging over his head.
except he is ruining his own relationship and verbally degrades the woman he is with @@slchance8839
@@slchance8839 What he has is the woman who is 100% invested in the relationship, while he's about 25%; he would at most be on the hook for child support until the kids turn 18. Meanwhile he gets childcare, maid service etc for the price of her keep and he owns all the assets.
@@slchance8839 Dave Ramsey just explained how marriage benefits them both with longer lifespans, better health, and higher earnings. listen to the second half after she hangs up.
Making decisions through strength, not weakness, some of the most awesome words of wisdom I've ever heard.
this is why people need to stop with all the marriage benefits outside of marriage. There’s no reason you should be living with your partner, and definitely don’t have children.
People can do whatever they want. There are plenty of married people cheating on their spouses. If she chooses to stay with him that is on her.
@@danielrn133 Yep. Marriage is not a guarantee against your partner thinking you are worthless.
@@danielrn133exactly!! Dave said she’s basically trapped. Like technically, legally, scientifically she’s not! She’s a free women! She can walk out that door and say Fxck them kids as she pleases. You don’t need a legal document to live a happy life with your children..
But she can't walk out and get spousal support since he has been supporting her and the kids.
If you are living together and doing everything else that entails, you are effectively married. A piece of paper from the courthouse isn’t going to fix anything. Also, you should consider a new prospect that has lived with a previous partner as divorced. They are. In the ways that matter anyway.
Dave: "what would you tell your daughter" - Great perspective! 👍 Maturity and setting the right example for the next generation. 👏
My parents were married for 65 years before they both passed within a year of each other. My marriage was 19 years until my husband died. Best 19 years of my life. Finances were combined in one checking account and I took care of all the finances ( he trusted me with our money) but was also involved in the finances.
Its called respect. Time to go. Don't put up with the lack of respect. Don't give him all the power. Dave is right find your strength not weakness.
Lol what take the kids and go ?
Yeah and now you're broke, a single mother, state aid, child support, custody. She's been playing house for seven years, may as well keep on going. I wouldn't marry her either if I was him. He doesn't need to.
There's no benefit to him wifing her. Only downsides for him.
@@robertbell525she chose to have two kids and stick around for 7 years before bringing up the marriage discussion. She's still in a relationship, maybe she should have brought all this up before having his children
Lack of respect is not grounds for divorce. Biblically speaking, at least. Relationships are hard. Marriage is harder. Fight for it. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Most people wander into relationships with no communication of what they want out of said relationship and 7 years later end up like this woman....
That was beautiful advise, making decisions from strength not weakness.
If your goal is marriage, only date people who truly want to get married. It isn't hard. You have to have these conversations early. In my opinion before you even go on a date.
I don't think she needs Dave Ramsey she needs a Psychiatrist for still being with him.
Dr. Delony has a a PhD in counseling, hence why she called.
She doesn’t have a job sooooo
What did he do wrong ? He’s paying all the bills & being a father. He just doesn’t want to get married…
@InTheBooks that part but thats what happens if your man your automatically demonized on this show
@@And1one757 don’t be a S..y man and you will not be demonized.
My wife and I went together for five years before we got engaged. We were engaged for a year, living together the last 6 months of our engagement because we moved to a different city. We waited six years before having our first of two kids. Still happily married 41 years later.
Loving together before marriage is a serious sin.
@@justin15157 We had a 2-bedroom apartment, so what do YOU know??
@@justin15157 Well maybe they repented and got married.
@@justin15157 Ive lived with a girlfriend from my past. We had separate rooms. Was this sinful? Maybe you shouldnt be so fast to judge. That is also a sin.
@@justin15157 I'm sure they asked for forgiveness every night they were banging. You happy now?
I love this episode and I saved it to watch it again. Im not in her situation but I do have daughters thay I want to teach this things. It couldn't be any more clear than how these two explain here. This is gold. I experience this and can attest to it. I met husband, got engaged years later, bought our home, then had 3 beautiful kids. Mine and his parents are still married. We have same religion and make decent money. We are both on board with working in and outside home and with education and care of our daughters. We are blessed! Im blessed thanks to my parents who set a great example of marital love and perseverence, also bc of my mom's teaching of how a young lady should behave.
This is one of my favorite calls ❤
He has all the benefits of a wife with zero commitment. He risks everything and stands to gain nothing from marrying her now. He’s told her with not only his actions but words also that she isn’t worth marrying. I don’t know how much clearer he could possibly make it. If she wants marriage I hope she gets her life together and moves on. I’ve known several women like this that have been shown the door once he meets the woman he actually wants to marry. This is why you don’t move in with, have babies by and play wife to a man who won’t make a legal commitment to you and make you his wife.
Why would any man with or without assets risk losing half of what he's got by being legally married ?
@@handyman1016 In the vast majority of cases it’s only half of what’s acquired during the marriage. Anything either party had going in isn’t a marital asset. And way more men would get married if the woman they actually want to spend their life with pushed the issue and wasn’t willing to stay a girlfriend for years on end. Women like this move in, have babies, combine assets, cook, clean and act like a wife when they’re not a wife. Then they wonder why he won’t marry them.
1. She had children by him before marriage.
2. Moved in with him before marriage.
That's her values and lifestyle. Suck it up and forget the marriage covenant. She is as bad as him in joining in in his bad decisions and now she wants to cry about it. Not and true repentance but I'm sorry because it hurts.
pre-marital assets are divided in divorces, unless there's a prenup in place protecting them. This woman has all the benefits of marriage, but just without the government contract. She wants that contract for more bargaining chips, so that way she can come out on top in a divorce. She's already been planning her exit, now she wants that marriage contract for more leverage. All of this wouldn't be a problem if women weren't cleaning out men in divorce courts, for much more than half @@sarahphillips295
Sounds like a Purple Pill guy - got burned in the divorce, but still wants the benefits of a marriage.
He wants to be involved and not comited. The difference is like ham and eggs. In ham and eggs the chicken is involved, but the pig is comited.
I am a little blown away. Your ability to communicate truth and support to that mother. I used your financial system to get out of debt and tuned out bit. but going to start tuning in to learn how to be a better friend, mother…thank you!
I knew a girl in a bad marriage with a high school degree. She went to nursing school, got a job, then left. She got the house. He pays child support.
And thats exactly why men dont want to get married anymore. Statistically they get shafted during divorce court about 80% of the time.
So you give a powerful incentive to women to divorce their husbands and break up the family and/or shack up with another dude.
I needed your advice 35 years ago guys! Thank you for being so sensible with this woman. Bless you both.
They are cheering her onto financial destitution. What advice.
You wouldn't have listened 35 years ago. It's too late for her 2 babies in too late
@@Elementalism And you'd cheer this young woman onto no security, no future, no financial independence, and no rights. Is that the adivice you're implying? Just stay trapped and wait for him to suddenly want to marry her some day?🤔
@drea4195 So what does the ring afford her she doesn't have now? The ring wasn't important enough for her to not procreate. But today it is? This advice is the worst. Shat freedom is she providing for herself to run into the lowest socioeconomic class in this country? And doing it because she doesn't have a ring.
“You little farts on ticktack” 😭😭😭😭😭 Daveeeeee
I can somewhat relate to the guy’s position. First wife left after 4 years (irreconcilable differences - no kids) and I learned that first one to file has the power and it only takes 90 days.
Then invited my new girlfriend and her two daughters ( 5 & 9 )to move in (even my Catholic mother was supportive of “move in” over “marriage”), but unlike this guy, I never fathered any children in the first 7 years. Then, we had a planned child (son) and got married. That was 31 years ago. Today, I worry for our son (23) and what the future holds for him. Suffice to say, I’ve been somewhat “red pilled” on his behalf.
I have kept my family inheritance separate and hold all my property as my “sole and separate property,” not as an exit strategy but for my own protection.
So good! Where have I been? I thought the Ramsey Show was solely about finances. I love this! ❤
If two people are comfortable making a family without a marriage license, I'm certainly not going to judge. But if you want marriage, why in the world make kids with someone who doesn't?
BINGO
EXACTLY. And now she has the AUDACITY to be surprised he won’t marry her. ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY.
as a man I would never sign a contract (marriage) allowing the government in my finances. Especially, seeing how most marriages end in divorces
Why in the world would HE make kids?
@@boston312 Then please, please, please do not have children. And the government is involved in our finances, anyway (and I'm not ok with that either, but it's a much bigger topic than just marriage).
It took me a long time to realize that my reluctance to marry my boyfriend was not due to "I want to be free!". It was not about accepting the status quo. Rather, it was my subconscious screaming at me to run, because we were two nice people separately but toxic together. Both our lives got better when we called the relationship off. I learned some valuable lessons, like always have a place to go and sister's couch isn't it. Always have a money stash because you may need it.And the best was, don't live together unless you are married.
I agree with most of your comment. But why should you not try to live together before you are married? Imagine you marry someone, move in together and find out that does not work out for both. I would prefer not to be married at that point, makes the break up way easier .
@@ericl6386 I would say that people "know" that it isn't going to workout but get married anyway, thinking things will change after marriage. I adhered strictly to the no kids before marriage, so there was no messing up little lives because Mom & Dad were grown up versions of children themselves.
Getting married is a commitment to allow another person to become a part of you, to help YOU become a better person, which is always difficult and will always bring you against moments where you want to change your mind. It's like jumping out of a plane with a parachute; it's scary and it'll never really happen until you jump. If you don't commit to doing it; if you do it with a plan B option to backout, you WILL backout when things get difficult. This is why you have to be ALL IN AND JUMP-- otherwise you will always be pretending and you will never grow.
I agree but don’t get married to soon. Live together 1-2 years before marriage.
@@Churros1616 And end up like Lee Marvin?
Great advice guys
One of your very best shows!