Dope list! I'm probably a bit more biased towards Gallica and would've put her in B. But I've had to deal with two annoying Atlus mascot characters back to back in Teddie and Morgana. So she was such a breath of fresh air for me. Every S tier made perfect sense. Loved Louis as a villain
After chatting with people in the comments, I've actually come to agree on the Gallica ranking. Definitely would've had her a lot higher if I did this list again.
I quite like the idea of Alonzo's character arc, and a good number of scenes, but I agree with the "the social link goes too fast to get invested", and I think a big reason is that he is too distant from the main plot (Brigitta has a similar problem, but she compensates by being one of the first social links, and the pacing of her link being better). Honestly, I expected Alonzo to take the role similar to the role that Batlin took in the end game. And it's not by lack of opportunity: in this game, we create a fake relique (to give to Louis), and we ran our political campaign on an elaborate lie of being a Prince, and later we need to smuggle ourself in Grand Trad to avoid angry mobs, and the Faker has no part at all in any of those three events? An alternative solution would have been to make him the informant where you can buy info from. Any of those would have allowed for more opportunities to build an actual relationship with him.
@@MoiMagnus1er wow. These are amazing points, I never thought of the potential his character had, because I guess I was just too busy being frustrated at what I was watching 💀 Your ideas are awesome, but I think they’re also periphery to a root issue in this game- it’s almost like they went out of their way to remove play choice as much as possible. In other words, it’s like they *want* every playthrough to look almost exactly the same. This is reflected in how much extra time they give you to complete every social link and side quest, in how your runner gets the ability to fly and teleport, and how there’s no option for romance in this game. What you suggested would’ve been contingent on having Alonzo’s social link ranked, which is certainly a variable at those points in the game. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for *MORE* RPG elements being in this game, and I talk about that briefly in my last video (I think I do? Or I talk about it in the comments there lol). It’s a missed opportunity and like you said, it would’ve helped characters like Alonzo. I really appreciate your comment, it gave me a perspective I didn’t have before! Thanks so much :)
@@LordKhuryGaming While I agree it would work better if the plot depends on Alonzo's social link, for my idea you could also just force the first rank (like Maria) or introduce the character without any social link (like Bardon) and then only have minor text changes depending on your social link with him (and if you're clever about it, you can probably make it so the text changes only happen in unvoiced parts of the game). Said otherwise, the main plot would show the part of Alonzo learning about us, what we stand for, and really getting his mind on "I don't care you say you want someone else to be king, I want you to be king yourself" (which was an underutilised part of Alonzo's social link), while the social link focuses on Alonzo's story. The only drawback is that the end of Alonzo's social link would need to be gated to happen at a moment where his temporary death would not be a problem for the plot.
@ great points. A little bit of leg work, but hopefully they rework things a bit if they ever remaster this game! Plenty of natural opportunities within the narrative for more involvement from the supporters who aren’t necessarily main cast 🤔
@@euca04 disliking a video over a difference of opinion about a video game character is kind of wild imo, nothing "respectful" about a dislike 💀 But that's your freedom and right to do so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Hope you at least enjoyed watching the vid, and thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Man wow, I just finished metaphor loved it and now it's "after-game" rabbit hole time and I feel genuinely lucky to have stumbled upon your video and channel. You're just so chill and you just stay calm even though you didn't like a character. I feel like the internet is now oversaturated with angry content creator stating their opinions in a unatural way just so that it feels more dramatic or funny but your tone is refreshing in its seriousness while also being calm. It was a good watch. Weirdly enough, I agreed with most of your points. Indeed, while I usually find it more exciting when I do not agree with someone's opinion as it gives another point of view on a matter, you articulate your points in a way that makes them really interesting and powerful. However, just because I like disagreeing doesn't mean I dislike arguing and in this next segment I would like to give my own opinion on Alonzo's follower bond. First things first, yes, I do agree it is a bit too much and loses itself a little at the end. I really loved the first 3 bonds that felt mysterious and sad. Alonzo followed us from grand trad to Martira, to Brilehaven and returned in Grand trad at the end. I don't know, maybe I am overstretching it but Alonzo feels a bit like he has been tricking the protagonist the whole game for me. Something isn't right about him as a character and that's what makes it interesting imo. Well, that wasnt convincing lol. Maybe the reason why I think he's a better character lies more in my predictions or theories on the future of Metaphor. I believe metaphor is going to have a "royal" version of and in that, if it comes, Alonzo would be its antagonist, the maruki of metaphor. The game has been centered on anxiety from the very beginning and Alonzo is a liar. Everything he says is a lie and even is social link is, in my theory, just a big whole lie. It is the only one that seems to not really be connected directly to the themes of the game and that's not very surprising. I really doubt Atlus would really make such a mistake and I really think (hope) that they had plans for the future of the game and to be honest it would be absolutely incredible if they explore the following direction. Alonzo concluded by saying that he will try to help the protagonist by doing what he does best : lying. As someone who has heavily relied on lying to escape anxiety, and who has known people that couldn't face their anxieties and lost themselves completely in their fake world of lies, I believe it would be thematically a great approach for dlc content. It would be imo really interesting to see because while metaphor main theme was anxiety, and overcoming them, lies comfort us into thinking we overcame them while in reality, lies just relocate it elsewhere. In short, lying to ourselves and others is, imo, the pinnacle of what anxiety can do to us, making us lose who we are. It would also make a great contrast with Louis honesty, and great similarity with the mustaries and the nidias. In short, I think Alonzo is far from an F tier character. His character has so much mystery even in the end that just makes my imagination go absolutely wild. I want to believe Atlus has planned it from the start and I can't think of a way that they hadn't. Anyway, thanks for this great video and I look forward to dive into your other videos.
@@seefyodor5033 first of all, thank you for your kind words about myself and the video, it means more than you know :,) This was such an intriguing comment to me! I think that your points on the contrast with Alonzo and Louis are absolutely brilliant, I think that could definitely be an opportunity for Atlus to expand his story/change his trajectory as a character. One who never lies and one who’s always lying.. it’s interesting stuff. I think with this video while personal opinion did come into play, I was mainly evaluating the characters based on the strength of their writing. And ultimately, I can’t rate the characters based on what ifs, or theories. With Alonzo, I can recognize I’m in the minority for sure. But my opinion is my opinion, in that Alonzo’s character failed in the way that is most important to me when it comes to fiction in general. He broke my immersion. His social link was so over the top and fast paced, that it just wasn’t believable for me. So I couldn’t rate him higher personally, even though I completely respect those who like him, and can understand why. They tried a lot of cool things with his character and I can appreciate that. PLEASE let me know your thoughts on my other videos, I found this to be very insightful and loved your theory on Alonzo getting a bigger role and think that would be a great play by Atlus.
Great list and video! Keep it up! Only one I disagreed a bit was Alonzo. While I agree with the pacing being not good a lot of the ideas and quotes from his social link were pretty great. This game was pretty awesome. Liked and subscribed!
@@mir8651 dude that means more than you know, thank you so much!!! Yeah I might’ve been a bit harsh on Alonzo in retrospect, for me personally the execution was just so bad that it completely broke my immersion in the game which is basically the worst thing a game’s writing could do imo. I should’ve at least mentioned, that execution aside, the actual things that happened and his personality were very interesting and unique.
Great list! I’d only make a few changes. Louis easily stands out as one of the best video game villains in my opinion-right up there with Sephiroth. Alonzo was pretty entertaining, though I agree the social link felt too short, as you mentioned. Lastly, Rella strikes me as a solid low-A rank character with the potential to be S rank. Let me elaborate, if she had more development through story-driven social links that evolved naturally, it would have deepened my connection to her character. Plus, that could have tied into unlocking the healer class or even elevating her status as the Saintess.
@@TheZeronet01 ugh, that Rella part would’ve been fire! I feel like her reveal also would’ve hit more if she was even a party member (maybe a double agent, where the church sends her to spy on you) She was definitely underbaked, but I just rlly love her character design and the foundation of her character so to speak.
I disagree with nearly half of your list, but you were very eloquent when discussing your reasoning. A very high quality discussion type video, keep up the entertaining work!
Thanks so much! I'm so happy that even though we disagreed, it was still an enjoyable watch for you. To be fair, I disagree with my own self now on a few of the character placements 😂 I ended up ranking the story arcs in this game as well, you might like that video too if you liked this one. Definitely recommend, and if you get a chance to watch it I'd love to hear your thoughts on that one too. Even if you disagree with most of that one too :)
@ I just watched that one after this, I always think it’s interesting hear other people’s perspectives especially on something so beefy as JRPGs! I’m staying in tune to look forward to your other content!!
Eupha being in her own tier is exactly how I feel. They did such a great job creating an empathetic, strong, wise, smart and with a genuine curiosity for others of a character. I love that after the island you get another moment with the opera mission where she shines a lot. Having just her, Galica and the MC for a chunk of this mission, having to protect her at all cost, was great to continue the bonding and makes us care even more about her. I would just disagree with you about the Galica's ranking. I thought she was also a cool member of the party, I liked her voice actor, and thought that even thought she was rarely the central piece, she was still able to highlight the different tones of the scenes without being a caricature. It is hard to explain but I think she eased the emotional flow a bit. Also, I played on hard the first time, and hearing her desperate lines nearly on repeat because i was dying a lot made her a strong emotional core of the start of my playthrough ahah. That maybe plays a part in my Galica bias
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I completely agree about how amazing it was for the opera mission to split your party so you get that dedicated time with Eupha and Gallica, I actually talk a bit about that in my most recent video, where I rank every story arc in the game (would love to hear your thoughts over there, if you find the time!) Honestly, I do feel like of all the characters here I was perhaps most unfairly harsh with Gallica, and I started to feel that way as I filmed this video which is reflected in me bumping her up a tier by the end lol. I'd probably have her even higher were I to redo the video, I think the way that you put it was perfect. It should be celebrated more that she was able to exist in almost every single scene in the game, without becoming annoying. Since you and her are attached at the hip throughout the story, she has the unique challenge that no other character has, of not becoming stale or too much, and she does pass that test with flying colors. "She eased the emotional flow a bit." is a great way of phrasing what her presence did for the game. So yeah, in hindsight, I'm pretty much in agreement with you. Thanks again for the comment bro!
@@OOFUS4103 it just felt so out of place for me!! Lmao definitely inspo from Shakespeare for sure, I’d say Alonzo’s social link probably needed a few more ranks more than anybody else. When it comes down to it the root of my issue is pacing. Like if we had a few more links where we built trust with Alonzo, or maybe met his mother and his mother approved of us and that lead to him attaching to us so strongly.. then even just that would’ve really helped the believability factor for me. I was harsh in the video but after talking with ppl some more I think there’s a lot of intriguing details in his social link.
The way my jaw dropped at the Alonzo section 😭😭😭 Zorba above Alonzo should be criminalized 😂 Alonzo shade aside, I liked your list. 😅 Side note: I am fascinated by Brigitta being read/perceived as a black character, considering she reads as ambiguously tan/red at most lol.
@@jayanicygnus might’ve just been how my display showed the characters, but I definitely viewed Brigitta and Neuras as being black, especially in the case of Neuras considering they showed other ppl of his race as white (Rella for example) it felt like a deliberate choice to portray these characters as such. They’re also a few shades darker than Eupha for example, so I just assumed black. Perhaps I’m making unwarranted (wishful) assumptions though! Also, I know the Alonzo placement was a hot take lmao but I stand by it!! Don’t bring Zorba into this, man is a bonafide ride or die. Glaze god, but an extremely well done character imo. Glad you liked the list outside of the Alonzo stuff, and I meant no disrespect with it it’s just my opinion!
@@LordKhuryGaming Oh yeah, I was just wondering about the perceived race thing because when I think of black characters in other RPGs like Barrett or Sazh, they were conceptualized as black characters through design, like with features and hair. It could be an Atlus art-style thing, but I like it to be a smidge more apparent when designing black characters. It seems that Atlus' take on it seems safe or palatable. Anywho, Zorba did fulfill his role as intended, but his voice acting was hands down the worst in the entire cast. It makes you realize how vital voice acting is when selling a character.
@ I completely understand your POV.. would be nice if they were more black coded in appearance, but I’m glad they’re not caricatured from a personality POV yk? Also how do we feel, do we prefer a safe take or no take at all? End of the day, I think I’d prefer to at least have a safe take.
@@LordKhuryGaming Oh, totally, but I do think this is a larger conversation around how art is white-washed and viewed through a Eurocentric lens. As for what is preferred, I personally prefer hard stances-- for representation to be executed with authenticity and real-life aesthetics of black people if the point is to make a black character.
@@jayanicygnus I understand that conversation, but I don’t think it necessarily applies here. This game was made by a Japanese studio, and the setting is a fantasy world, I don’t think white washing and eurocentrism are applicable in this specific case. Given that it was made by a Japanese studio, any black characters involved I’d just take as a pleasant surprise, and given that the game takes place in a fantasy world, it’s appropriate to me that that’s not the focus for any of these characters. The same is true for white ppl in regards to this studio as well, it’s a surprise for them to be included in these games too when they are, for example it’s a point of conversation and emphasis in game for Ann’s character in persona 5, that she is half white (one of her parents is American). And it’s a point of conversation/emphasis because persona is based in the real world. Hard stances are nice, but I’d rather have these characters, than have them be white/pale instead because they didn’t code them as black as they could’ve. I don’t think any of the characters in this world should be racially coded by the standards of our world, since it’s a fantasy world rife with discrimination based on the literal races of the people in it. Now, if the game was based in the real world instead (like persona 5) then I’d definitely be appealing for a harder stance if they included black characters, and I’d probably have spoken about that. But that isn’t the case, so for me it doesn’t apply here and I’m simply happy to see the character designs, even if they don’t have waves or locs. Would I have liked Uncle Neuras to have crazy waves or a fro, and Brigitta to have locs? Yeah, that would’ve been dope, but I’m not dying on that hill and I’m okay that it isn’t the case. I like their designs. If the game was made by an American studio though, that’s a different story and the expectations for representation would deservedly be different. Imo ¯\(ツ)/¯
Definitely agree with Hulkenburg not really having romantic undertones with the protagonist, but it’s funny to hear some of her voice lines when she’s charmed. She’ll say things “Oh your highness…” in a somewhat bashful way. Nothing as outright as Eupha or implied as Junah though. Great video, hope you keep growing!
Lmaooo she outta pocket for that, I never even caught that cuz I wasn't thinking that way but now in retrospect I can hear in my head the exact voice lines you're alluding to 💀
@@LordKhuryGaming Is understable they like Hunkelberg, but from the game perspective she´s the Prince´s bodyguard and a bit zealot sometimes. But is the Middle Age that was normal then. Now I want to know if her phrases under the charm spell are the same before knowing the truth about the Prince or if they change.
@@JKumaD thanks for watching and ohhhh I didn’t think of that! Some interesting parallels there, always cool to see in this genre when it’s clear that characters from these games take inspo from others (for example Eupha’s accent and differing cultural background + not understanding turn of phrases, conceptually reminded me of Petra from Fire Emblem Three Houses). At the same time, it’s really cool when a character doesn’t remind you of anyone you’ve encountered yet in the genre 💯
@@scythea428 HAHAHA I’d never deny it fam, I’m 1000% a Eupha simp. Just glad that underneath all that simping, my explanation made sense in a way that allowed you to see her in a new light. Appreciate you for stopping by and commenting more than you know
lmfaoo thank you, glad you enjoyed! Another video on the way tomorrow actually, doing an analysis of this game's narrative :) hope you come back for that one, and please always feel free to lmk if I'm tweaking 💀💀😂
@@yoshigaming9321 I actually had a convo with somebody else under this post where after reflection I actually do think I was being harsh on that one. I’d rate her higher if I redid the video tbh, probably in B or A
For forden, it honestly feels like the 'whole beat Rella at the mage academy' arc was cut content into the history of sanctism and how forden came into power. I really expected the mage academy ruins to be a dungeon similar to the dragkn temple, where it plays more of a role into the mystery of More and recent history of the sanctist church I think Batlin was definitely a missed social link opportunity. I had a strong feeling he would be a double agent type character given his role as a crier but also his connections to the sanctist table people, and curiousity on watching MC. Was hoping he would be a bit more villainous
@@digodoom197 These are great points. I actually talk about my issues with the whole Rella Mage academy section of the game in my last video, but long story short I’m aligned with you there. I feel like you cooked with the Batlin idea, it would’ve made for a far more compelling character had he struggled a bit more with his loyalties and where he wanted to align throughout the game.
@LordKhuryGaming I just watched your previous video about the mage academy!! I'm glad there are others who share the same sentiment. The game could have definitely used some more hours, but I feel Atlus wanted to keep it around the 70-80 hr mark given its a new IP trying to induct new fans
@@digodoom197 Dude I appreciate that so much! Glad you're enjoying the vids. That's a great point, I know this is supposed to be their new 'third pillar' so to speak alongside Persona and Shin Megami, so I definitely feel like that impacted some of their creative decisions. I'd bet that only people really familiar with their games, would even notice a few of the missed opportunities in Metaphor and it is a masterpiece of a game, so can't really fault them to be fair. Think as far as accessibility to newcomers, they did a great job.
I really appreciate your earnest approach to this, as metaphor is so good that you can sometimes miss all its missed opportunities. alonzo feels like a dickens plot, which is charming, but dickens was never known for believability. lina is as I recall a weird marketing thing between atlus and yoko taro, which is why she seems more like you're supposed to like her than any in game evidence would suggest. I think the only place where I disagree with you is that loveless probably deserves an upgrade to D, as he at least enables you to go beat the hell out of milo, which is one of the most satisfying final act moments. it is a short but awesome narrative beat to go "destroy something beautiful"
Appreciate you sharing your thoughts, they were genuinely enlightening for me. I hadn't considered how external factors could effect certain characters. I wonder if I should though, when it comes to ranking the characters? Like should Lina get a pass cuz she's a meta marketing device or should Alonzo because he was inspired by a dickens plot? I can only speak to my blind experience of playing the game, which I think is the most authentic one, because at the end of the day gamers shouldn't be expected to do homework on a games developmental background, just to understand a game. Not that I don't love details like the ones you shared, and not that I don't enjoy researching stuff like that! Just thinking purely from the majority gamer perspective, you know. And lmaooo Loveless did have one of the more satisfying subplot/sidequest scenarios, I'll certainly grant you that. Man thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, I learned a lot!
@@LordKhuryGaming Oh no you are correct, that genuine matter is why I loved it, it's just that I like the video for being generally sobering, metaphor is so good that there is also the comedown of "okay but some of these plotlines were subpar" and you are right to say it. especially with the secondary candidates being one note characters. I bet you would find the yoko taro video on metaphor genuinely entertaining, atlus brings him on to talk about metaphor and he mostly just advertises his own games and cracks jokes about why he's even there.
@ I’ll take a look, that does sound interesting! And thank you for sharing your thoughtful comments and the encouragement. More videos to come! Hope to see you there :)
basilio should be in S imho as the youngest brother in my family i relate to him the most because he really is the naive brother that alwasy look to the older one for answers. He didn't start thinking on his own till virga island when you showed him there's another way of life. Him losing del and vinca and having to start thinking for himself since he never had to make big decisions before is just to peak and realistic. It's one of those life rugs being pulled from under you. Plus i think he has the best or if not top 2-3 awakenings.
It's funny you say that, cuz in my video where I compared persona and Metaphor, I actually mentioned that I'm the youngest brother of other brothers and I really related to the way he navigated things a lot. Tbh Basilio very well could've been in S for me. There were a few characters I went back and forth on, and he was definitely one of them.
@@hustheposum thanks for saying that, I really appreciate it! We can agree to disagree, but if you ever want to explain your reasoning then feel free I’m always open for a chat :)
@ I won’t pretend that mine are more thought out than yours, but I do have to say I liked Del more and Eupha less. Thought the Del and Bas dynamic was throughly entertaining and Del was the actually smart (not as smart as he could’ve been but smarter than the rest of the cast), and Eupha was a trope that I’ve seen too much and done better. The rest are minor quibbles, I would’ve had a lot of your S tier in A tier. Louis and Neuras would’ve been S plus maybe Strohl and HBerg. More importantly, I’ve watched a few of your metaphor videos and I like how well thought out your takes are. You’ve earned a sub. Keep up the good work!
@ appreciate you, and big respect to your thoughts. I think I could’ve done a better point highlighting that just because Del didn’t make every right decision, doesn’t meant that he wasn’t actually smarter than most of the ppl in the cast. I don’t think Eupha was a trope at all, I did a character analysis video on her where I actually get deeper into her character than the surface level simping. Thanks for subbing and watching videos, and please keep sharing your thoughts! You make interesting counterpoints
I respect your opinion, and I understand that I'm in the minority on that one!! Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts, I hope that that didn't make it so that you hated the video as a whole lol!
@@cclmnz6850 definitely aware that I’m in the minority on that one! I can respect other people’s opinions on him for sure 🤝 Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts, appreciate you!
Brigitta is probably one of the first black atlus characters if you count basilio and don't count random no-name npcs in P5 and Mark from the P1 localization
@@LordKhuryGaming Oh right, I forgot about Neuras. I said "if you count basilio" because you could easily not count Basilio imo since it might just be fur or something.
@@thanatos2684 😂😂🤣😂 I’m sorry this isn’t personal with his supporters! I can only be honest! I have reflected under other comments on this post though that my problems are mainly with the execution of his storyline, and not the actual storyline elements that they went for
This is one of the worst tier lists I've seen in a while in comparison to how I feel. I've seen 3 different tier lists based on this game and I agree with MOST of what they say. This one, not so much. But hey, who am I? Cook up my g.
@@saviormonroe-lh7oh well, wanna talk about it? What’d you disagree with and why? And did you enjoy watching the video, or not? You’re free to have a different opinion, but I’d be curious to know!
@LordKhuryGaming just because I disagreed doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the video. I don't get hurt over opinions. Some of the stuff I felt was just an outlook from somebody who misunderstood the reasoning behind things. Alonzo in particular. His bond story was dope because of what he was trying to get across to the protagonist and it was parallel with the faker/trickster hero archetype. And most of all, Alonzo had one of the most memorable bonds. And impact, imo, is the most important.
@@saviormonroe-lh7oh I understood what they were trying to communicate with Alonzo’s story. What my main issue was, was that I personally felt the delivery of the content was really poor and unbelievable. So I didn’t enjoy it, because it didn’t feel real to me at all. Personal preference on that front
This was a great watch, we pretty much agree on the characters :) Also, you talk and edit pretty great, I thought you must have 100k subs or so!
@@xanderino3121 dude :,) that means more than you know!!!! Hopefully you stick around until we make it to the 100k lol
Alonzo F tier is craaazyyyy, he was one of the few exciting social links, although contrived
lmao I couldn't get past the contrived part. Respect to those who could though!
Dope list! I'm probably a bit more biased towards Gallica and would've put her in B. But I've had to deal with two annoying Atlus mascot characters back to back in Teddie and Morgana. So she was such a breath of fresh air for me. Every S tier made perfect sense. Loved Louis as a villain
After chatting with people in the comments, I've actually come to agree on the Gallica ranking. Definitely would've had her a lot higher if I did this list again.
I quite like the idea of Alonzo's character arc, and a good number of scenes, but I agree with the "the social link goes too fast to get invested", and I think a big reason is that he is too distant from the main plot (Brigitta has a similar problem, but she compensates by being one of the first social links, and the pacing of her link being better). Honestly, I expected Alonzo to take the role similar to the role that Batlin took in the end game.
And it's not by lack of opportunity: in this game, we create a fake relique (to give to Louis), and we ran our political campaign on an elaborate lie of being a Prince, and later we need to smuggle ourself in Grand Trad to avoid angry mobs, and the Faker has no part at all in any of those three events? An alternative solution would have been to make him the informant where you can buy info from. Any of those would have allowed for more opportunities to build an actual relationship with him.
@@MoiMagnus1er wow. These are amazing points, I never thought of the potential his character had, because I guess I was just too busy being frustrated at what I was watching 💀
Your ideas are awesome, but I think they’re also periphery to a root issue in this game- it’s almost like they went out of their way to remove play choice as much as possible. In other words, it’s like they *want* every playthrough to look almost exactly the same. This is reflected in how much extra time they give you to complete every social link and side quest, in how your runner gets the ability to fly and teleport, and how there’s no option for romance in this game.
What you suggested would’ve been contingent on having Alonzo’s social link ranked, which is certainly a variable at those points in the game.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for *MORE* RPG elements being in this game, and I talk about that briefly in my last video (I think I do? Or I talk about it in the comments there lol). It’s a missed opportunity and like you said, it would’ve helped characters like Alonzo.
I really appreciate your comment, it gave me a perspective I didn’t have before! Thanks so much :)
@@LordKhuryGaming While I agree it would work better if the plot depends on Alonzo's social link, for my idea you could also just force the first rank (like Maria) or introduce the character without any social link (like Bardon) and then only have minor text changes depending on your social link with him (and if you're clever about it, you can probably make it so the text changes only happen in unvoiced parts of the game).
Said otherwise, the main plot would show the part of Alonzo learning about us, what we stand for, and really getting his mind on "I don't care you say you want someone else to be king, I want you to be king yourself" (which was an underutilised part of Alonzo's social link), while the social link focuses on Alonzo's story.
The only drawback is that the end of Alonzo's social link would need to be gated to happen at a moment where his temporary death would not be a problem for the plot.
@ great points. A little bit of leg work, but hopefully they rework things a bit if they ever remaster this game!
Plenty of natural opportunities within the narrative for more involvement from the supporters who aren’t necessarily main cast 🤔
Dude, I so close to disliking this video until I saw Eupha up the top and changed my mind.
Lmaooo a fellow man of culture. Appreciate you watching, even if you disagreed with a lot of my placements!
Same until alonzo which respectfully flipped it to a dislike
@@euca04 disliking a video over a difference of opinion about a video game character is kind of wild imo, nothing "respectful" about a dislike 💀
But that's your freedom and right to do so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Hope you at least enjoyed watching the vid, and thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Man wow, I just finished metaphor loved it and now it's "after-game" rabbit hole time and I feel genuinely lucky to have stumbled upon your video and channel. You're just so chill and you just stay calm even though you didn't like a character. I feel like the internet is now oversaturated with angry content creator stating their opinions in a unatural way just so that it feels more dramatic or funny but your tone is refreshing in its seriousness while also being calm. It was a good watch.
Weirdly enough, I agreed with most of your points. Indeed, while I usually find it more exciting when I do not agree with someone's opinion as it gives another point of view on a matter, you articulate your points in a way that makes them really interesting and powerful.
However, just because I like disagreeing doesn't mean I dislike arguing and in this next segment I would like to give my own opinion on Alonzo's follower bond.
First things first, yes, I do agree it is a bit too much and loses itself a little at the end. I really loved the first 3 bonds that felt mysterious and sad. Alonzo followed us from grand trad to Martira, to Brilehaven and returned in Grand trad at the end. I don't know, maybe I am overstretching it but Alonzo feels a bit like he has been tricking the protagonist the whole game for me. Something isn't right about him as a character and that's what makes it interesting imo.
Well, that wasnt convincing lol. Maybe the reason why I think he's a better character lies more in my predictions or theories on the future of Metaphor. I believe metaphor is going to have a "royal" version of and in that, if it comes, Alonzo would be its antagonist, the maruki of metaphor. The game has been centered on anxiety from the very beginning and Alonzo is a liar. Everything he says is a lie and even is social link is, in my theory, just a big whole lie. It is the only one that seems to not really be connected directly to the themes of the game and that's not very surprising. I really doubt Atlus would really make such a mistake and I really think (hope) that they had plans for the future of the game and to be honest it would be absolutely incredible if they explore the following direction.
Alonzo concluded by saying that he will try to help the protagonist by doing what he does best : lying. As someone who has heavily relied on lying to escape anxiety, and who has known people that couldn't face their anxieties and lost themselves completely in their fake world of lies, I believe it would be thematically a great approach for dlc content. It would be imo really interesting to see because while metaphor main theme was anxiety, and overcoming them, lies comfort us into thinking we overcame them while in reality, lies just relocate it elsewhere. In short, lying to ourselves and others is, imo, the pinnacle of what anxiety can do to us, making us lose who we are. It would also make a great contrast with Louis honesty, and great similarity with the mustaries and the nidias.
In short, I think Alonzo is far from an F tier character. His character has so much mystery even in the end that just makes my imagination go absolutely wild. I want to believe Atlus has planned it from the start and I can't think of a way that they hadn't.
Anyway, thanks for this great video and I look forward to dive into your other videos.
@@seefyodor5033 first of all, thank you for your kind words about myself and the video, it means more than you know :,)
This was such an intriguing comment to me! I think that your points on the contrast with Alonzo and Louis are absolutely brilliant, I think that could definitely be an opportunity for Atlus to expand his story/change his trajectory as a character. One who never lies and one who’s always lying.. it’s interesting stuff.
I think with this video while personal opinion did come into play, I was mainly evaluating the characters based on the strength of their writing. And ultimately, I can’t rate the characters based on what ifs, or theories. With Alonzo, I can recognize I’m in the minority for sure. But my opinion is my opinion, in that Alonzo’s character failed in the way that is most important to me when it comes to fiction in general. He broke my immersion. His social link was so over the top and fast paced, that it just wasn’t believable for me. So I couldn’t rate him higher personally, even though I completely respect those who like him, and can understand why. They tried a lot of cool things with his character and I can appreciate that.
PLEASE let me know your thoughts on my other videos, I found this to be very insightful and loved your theory on Alonzo getting a bigger role and think that would be a great play by Atlus.
Great list and video! Keep it up! Only one I disagreed a bit was Alonzo. While I agree with the pacing being not good a lot of the ideas and quotes from his social link were pretty great. This game was pretty awesome.
Liked and subscribed!
@@mir8651 dude that means more than you know, thank you so much!!!
Yeah I might’ve been a bit harsh on Alonzo in retrospect, for me personally the execution was just so bad that it completely broke my immersion in the game which is basically the worst thing a game’s writing could do imo.
I should’ve at least mentioned, that execution aside, the actual things that happened and his personality were very interesting and unique.
Great list! I’d only make a few changes. Louis easily stands out as one of the best video game villains in my opinion-right up there with Sephiroth. Alonzo was pretty entertaining, though I agree the social link felt too short, as you mentioned. Lastly, Rella strikes me as a solid low-A rank character with the potential to be S rank. Let me elaborate, if she had more development through story-driven social links that evolved naturally, it would have deepened my connection to her character. Plus, that could have tied into unlocking the healer class or even elevating her status as the Saintess.
@@TheZeronet01 ugh, that Rella part would’ve been fire! I feel like her reveal also would’ve hit more if she was even a party member (maybe a double agent, where the church sends her to spy on you)
She was definitely underbaked, but I just rlly love her character design and the foundation of her character so to speak.
I disagree with nearly half of your list, but you were very eloquent when discussing your reasoning. A very high quality discussion type video, keep up the entertaining work!
Thanks so much! I'm so happy that even though we disagreed, it was still an enjoyable watch for you. To be fair, I disagree with my own self now on a few of the character placements 😂
I ended up ranking the story arcs in this game as well, you might like that video too if you liked this one. Definitely recommend, and if you get a chance to watch it I'd love to hear your thoughts on that one too. Even if you disagree with most of that one too :)
@ I just watched that one after this, I always think it’s interesting hear other people’s perspectives especially on something so beefy as JRPGs! I’m staying in tune to look forward to your other content!!
Eupha being in her own tier is exactly how I feel. They did such a great job creating an empathetic, strong, wise, smart and with a genuine curiosity for others of a character. I love that after the island you get another moment with the opera mission where she shines a lot. Having just her, Galica and the MC for a chunk of this mission, having to protect her at all cost, was great to continue the bonding and makes us care even more about her.
I would just disagree with you about the Galica's ranking. I thought she was also a cool member of the party, I liked her voice actor, and thought that even thought she was rarely the central piece, she was still able to highlight the different tones of the scenes without being a caricature. It is hard to explain but I think she eased the emotional flow a bit.
Also, I played on hard the first time, and hearing her desperate lines nearly on repeat because i was dying a lot made her a strong emotional core of the start of my playthrough ahah. That maybe plays a part in my Galica bias
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I completely agree about how amazing it was for the opera mission to split your party so you get that dedicated time with Eupha and Gallica, I actually talk a bit about that in my most recent video, where I rank every story arc in the game (would love to hear your thoughts over there, if you find the time!)
Honestly, I do feel like of all the characters here I was perhaps most unfairly harsh with Gallica, and I started to feel that way as I filmed this video which is reflected in me bumping her up a tier by the end lol. I'd probably have her even higher were I to redo the video, I think the way that you put it was perfect.
It should be celebrated more that she was able to exist in almost every single scene in the game, without becoming annoying. Since you and her are attached at the hip throughout the story, she has the unique challenge that no other character has, of not becoming stale or too much, and she does pass that test with flying colors. "She eased the emotional flow a bit." is a great way of phrasing what her presence did for the game. So yeah, in hindsight, I'm pretty much in agreement with you. Thanks again for the comment bro!
As someone who loves Shakespeare, maybe that’s why I grew so attached to Alonzo LMAO
@@OOFUS4103 it just felt so out of place for me!! Lmao definitely inspo from Shakespeare for sure, I’d say Alonzo’s social link probably needed a few more ranks more than anybody else.
When it comes down to it the root of my issue is pacing. Like if we had a few more links where we built trust with Alonzo, or maybe met his mother and his mother approved of us and that lead to him attaching to us so strongly.. then even just that would’ve really helped the believability factor for me.
I was harsh in the video but after talking with ppl some more I think there’s a lot of intriguing details in his social link.
man of taste
@@melchiorsmokes ahh always nice to see a fellow such as yourself. Glad you enjoyed!
Great video! Love all of your content on this game. + I didn’t think anyone else felt the same way about Alonzo 🤣🤣💀
@@TH-camguy7777 appreciate you more than you know! More Metaphor content to come 🤝
The way my jaw dropped at the Alonzo section 😭😭😭 Zorba above Alonzo should be criminalized 😂
Alonzo shade aside, I liked your list. 😅
Side note: I am fascinated by Brigitta being read/perceived as a black character, considering she reads as ambiguously tan/red at most lol.
@@jayanicygnus might’ve just been how my display showed the characters, but I definitely viewed Brigitta and Neuras as being black, especially in the case of Neuras considering they showed other ppl of his race as white (Rella for example) it felt like a deliberate choice to portray these characters as such. They’re also a few shades darker than Eupha for example, so I just assumed black. Perhaps I’m making unwarranted (wishful) assumptions though!
Also, I know the Alonzo placement was a hot take lmao but I stand by it!! Don’t bring Zorba into this, man is a bonafide ride or die. Glaze god, but an extremely well done character imo. Glad you liked the list outside of the Alonzo stuff, and I meant no disrespect with it it’s just my opinion!
@@LordKhuryGaming Oh yeah, I was just wondering about the perceived race thing because when I think of black characters in other RPGs like Barrett or Sazh, they were conceptualized as black characters through design, like with features and hair. It could be an Atlus art-style thing, but I like it to be a smidge more apparent when designing black characters. It seems that Atlus' take on it seems safe or palatable.
Anywho, Zorba did fulfill his role as intended, but his voice acting was hands down the worst in the entire cast. It makes you realize how vital voice acting is when selling a character.
@ I completely understand your POV.. would be nice if they were more black coded in appearance, but I’m glad they’re not caricatured from a personality POV yk?
Also how do we feel, do we prefer a safe take or no take at all? End of the day, I think I’d prefer to at least have a safe take.
@@LordKhuryGaming Oh, totally, but I do think this is a larger conversation around how art is white-washed and viewed through a Eurocentric lens.
As for what is preferred, I personally prefer hard stances-- for representation to be executed with authenticity and real-life aesthetics of black people if the point is to make a black character.
@@jayanicygnus I understand that conversation, but I don’t think it necessarily applies here. This game was made by a Japanese studio, and the setting is a fantasy world, I don’t think white washing and eurocentrism are applicable in this specific case.
Given that it was made by a Japanese studio, any black characters involved I’d just take as a pleasant surprise, and given that the game takes place in a fantasy world, it’s appropriate to me that that’s not the focus for any of these characters. The same is true for white ppl in regards to this studio as well, it’s a surprise for them to be included in these games too when they are, for example it’s a point of conversation and emphasis in game for Ann’s character in persona 5, that she is half white (one of her parents is American). And it’s a point of conversation/emphasis because persona is based in the real world.
Hard stances are nice, but I’d rather have these characters, than have them be white/pale instead because they didn’t code them as black as they could’ve. I don’t think any of the characters in this world should be racially coded by the standards of our world, since it’s a fantasy world rife with discrimination based on the literal races of the people in it.
Now, if the game was based in the real world instead (like persona 5) then I’d definitely be appealing for a harder stance if they included black characters, and I’d probably have spoken about that. But that isn’t the case, so for me it doesn’t apply here and I’m simply happy to see the character designs, even if they don’t have waves or locs. Would I have liked Uncle Neuras to have crazy waves or a fro, and Brigitta to have locs? Yeah, that would’ve been dope, but I’m not dying on that hill and I’m okay that it isn’t the case. I like their designs.
If the game was made by an American studio though, that’s a different story and the expectations for representation would deservedly be different. Imo ¯\(ツ)/¯
Definitely agree with Hulkenburg not really having romantic undertones with the protagonist, but it’s funny to hear some of her voice lines when she’s charmed. She’ll say things “Oh your highness…” in a somewhat bashful way. Nothing as outright as Eupha or implied as Junah though. Great video, hope you keep growing!
Lmaooo she outta pocket for that, I never even caught that cuz I wasn't thinking that way but now in retrospect I can hear in my head the exact voice lines you're alluding to 💀
I think that is due to how much she wants his praise after all. The prince was just 6 when she was his guard, so no romantic feelings there.
@amarant1275 I tend to agree with you on this one. It's interesting though how much the fans ship this
@@LordKhuryGaming Is understable they like Hunkelberg, but from the game perspective she´s the Prince´s bodyguard and a bit zealot sometimes. But is the Middle Age that was normal then.
Now I want to know if her phrases under the charm spell are the same before knowing the truth about the Prince or if they change.
@ ohhhh now that would be very interesting. I wish there were more people uploading videos like that where they investigate those things.
Eupha is literally Metaphor's Yuna and... i'm not mad! Close enough!
@@JKumaD thanks for watching and ohhhh I didn’t think of that! Some interesting parallels there, always cool to see in this genre when it’s clear that characters from these games take inspo from others (for example Eupha’s accent and differing cultural background + not understanding turn of phrases, conceptually reminded me of Petra from Fire Emblem Three Houses).
At the same time, it’s really cool when a character doesn’t remind you of anyone you’ve encountered yet in the genre 💯
i hope atlus makes a royal edition of this game and it's just eupha content for 30 hours
@@dariomendolia1463 bruh 🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣
….
That’s a great idea.
I didnt care for Eupha, but your explanation helped me see her in a new light. Youre still a simp though and thats okay 🔥
@@scythea428 HAHAHA I’d never deny it fam, I’m 1000% a Eupha simp. Just glad that underneath all that simping, my explanation made sense in a way that allowed you to see her in a new light.
Appreciate you for stopping by and commenting more than you know
Eupha 🔛🔝where she belongs🔥 so glad to see fellow Eupha enjoyers 💛🔥
@@AdeOjoVA my brotha 🤝 big respect
Absolutely loved this vid and your takes even if I think you tweaking on some of the rankings lol. Great analysis and insight my man ❤🤙🏾
lmfaoo thank you, glad you enjoyed! Another video on the way tomorrow actually, doing an analysis of this game's narrative :) hope you come back for that one, and please always feel free to lmk if I'm tweaking 💀💀😂
Putting Galicia in D tier is crazy
@@yoshigaming9321 I actually had a convo with somebody else under this post where after reflection I actually do think I was being harsh on that one. I’d rate her higher if I redid the video tbh, probably in B or A
For forden, it honestly feels like the 'whole beat Rella at the mage academy' arc was cut content into the history of sanctism and how forden came into power. I really expected the mage academy ruins to be a dungeon similar to the dragkn temple, where it plays more of a role into the mystery of More and recent history of the sanctist church
I think Batlin was definitely a missed social link opportunity. I had a strong feeling he would be a double agent type character given his role as a crier but also his connections to the sanctist table people, and curiousity on watching MC. Was hoping he would be a bit more villainous
@@digodoom197 These are great points. I actually talk about my issues with the whole Rella Mage academy section of the game in my last video, but long story short I’m aligned with you there.
I feel like you cooked with the Batlin idea, it would’ve made for a far more compelling character had he struggled a bit more with his loyalties and where he wanted to align throughout the game.
@LordKhuryGaming I just watched your previous video about the mage academy!! I'm glad there are others who share the same sentiment. The game could have definitely used some more hours, but I feel Atlus wanted to keep it around the 70-80 hr mark given its a new IP trying to induct new fans
@@digodoom197 Dude I appreciate that so much! Glad you're enjoying the vids.
That's a great point, I know this is supposed to be their new 'third pillar' so to speak alongside Persona and Shin Megami, so I definitely feel like that impacted some of their creative decisions.
I'd bet that only people really familiar with their games, would even notice a few of the missed opportunities in Metaphor and it is a masterpiece of a game, so can't really fault them to be fair. Think as far as accessibility to newcomers, they did a great job.
I really appreciate your earnest approach to this, as metaphor is so good that you can sometimes miss all its missed opportunities. alonzo feels like a dickens plot, which is charming, but dickens was never known for believability. lina is as I recall a weird marketing thing between atlus and yoko taro, which is why she seems more like you're supposed to like her than any in game evidence would suggest. I think the only place where I disagree with you is that loveless probably deserves an upgrade to D, as he at least enables you to go beat the hell out of milo, which is one of the most satisfying final act moments. it is a short but awesome narrative beat to go "destroy something beautiful"
Appreciate you sharing your thoughts, they were genuinely enlightening for me.
I hadn't considered how external factors could effect certain characters. I wonder if I should though, when it comes to ranking the characters? Like should Lina get a pass cuz she's a meta marketing device or should Alonzo because he was inspired by a dickens plot?
I can only speak to my blind experience of playing the game, which I think is the most authentic one, because at the end of the day gamers shouldn't be expected to do homework on a games developmental background, just to understand a game. Not that I don't love details like the ones you shared, and not that I don't enjoy researching stuff like that! Just thinking purely from the majority gamer perspective, you know.
And lmaooo Loveless did have one of the more satisfying subplot/sidequest scenarios, I'll certainly grant you that. Man thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, I learned a lot!
@@LordKhuryGaming Oh no you are correct, that genuine matter is why I loved it, it's just that I like the video for being generally sobering, metaphor is so good that there is also the comedown of "okay but some of these plotlines were subpar" and you are right to say it. especially with the secondary candidates being one note characters. I bet you would find the yoko taro video on metaphor genuinely entertaining, atlus brings him on to talk about metaphor and he mostly just advertises his own games and cracks jokes about why he's even there.
@ I’ll take a look, that does sound interesting! And thank you for sharing your thoughtful comments and the encouragement. More videos to come! Hope to see you there :)
basilio should be in S imho as the youngest brother in my family i relate to him the most because he really is the naive brother that alwasy look to the older one for answers. He didn't start thinking on his own till virga island when you showed him there's another way of life. Him losing del and vinca and having to start thinking for himself since he never had to make big decisions before is just to peak and realistic. It's one of those life rugs being pulled from under you. Plus i think he has the best or if not top 2-3 awakenings.
It's funny you say that, cuz in my video where I compared persona and Metaphor, I actually mentioned that I'm the youngest brother of other brothers and I really related to the way he navigated things a lot. Tbh Basilio very well could've been in S for me. There were a few characters I went back and forth on, and he was definitely one of them.
I mean I disagree with a lot of this but at least you explained your reasoning.
@@hustheposum thanks for saying that, I really appreciate it! We can agree to disagree, but if you ever want to explain your reasoning then feel free I’m always open for a chat :)
@ I won’t pretend that mine are more thought out than yours, but I do have to say I liked Del more and Eupha less. Thought the Del and Bas dynamic was throughly entertaining and Del was the actually smart (not as smart as he could’ve been but smarter than the rest of the cast), and Eupha was a trope that I’ve seen too much and done better. The rest are minor quibbles, I would’ve had a lot of your S tier in A tier. Louis and Neuras would’ve been S plus maybe Strohl and HBerg.
More importantly, I’ve watched a few of your metaphor videos and I like how well thought out your takes are. You’ve earned a sub. Keep up the good work!
@ appreciate you, and big respect to your thoughts. I think I could’ve done a better point highlighting that just because Del didn’t make every right decision, doesn’t meant that he wasn’t actually smarter than most of the ppl in the cast.
I don’t think Eupha was a trope at all, I did a character analysis video on her where I actually get deeper into her character than the surface level simping.
Thanks for subbing and watching videos, and please keep sharing your thoughts! You make interesting counterpoints
alonzo's is literally the best one
I respect your opinion, and I understand that I'm in the minority on that one!! Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts, I hope that that didn't make it so that you hated the video as a whole lol!
I think I would have put Alonzo in s personally
Easily one of the best social link in the game for me.
@@cclmnz6850 definitely aware that I’m in the minority on that one! I can respect other people’s opinions on him for sure 🤝
Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts, appreciate you!
Brigitta is probably one of the first black atlus characters if you count basilio and don't count random no-name npcs in P5 and Mark from the P1 localization
@@Arctic7985 I think it’s pretty cool :) I’d count Neuras too tbh, unsure about Basilio
@@LordKhuryGaming Oh right, I forgot about Neuras. I said "if you count basilio" because you could easily not count Basilio imo since it might just be fur or something.
@@Arctic7985 completely agree my friend
The unrealistic candidates dont feel as crazy after the last election
@@Darkmocha331 bruh 💀💀💀 Rudolf reminds me of a certain someone 👀
Need a full video re 21:08 🥹🥹
@@kgooden15 🤣🤣😂
Alonzo was cool, i wish he stayed dead after rank 9 lol
@@eyebrows0408 bruh 🤣🤣😂 the irony is that that’s what would’ve been shocking. Not that he stayed alive, but that he was actually dead
Basilio same rank as batlin man in at work im gonna cry 😢
@@repingers9777 sorry bro 😭 hope you at least enjoyed the vid!
Leave Alonzo alone omg??? 😭
@@thanatos2684 😂😂🤣😂 I’m sorry this isn’t personal with his supporters! I can only be honest!
I have reflected under other comments on this post though that my problems are mainly with the execution of his storyline, and not the actual storyline elements that they went for
This is one of the worst tier lists I've seen in a while in comparison to how I feel. I've seen 3 different tier lists based on this game and I agree with MOST of what they say. This one, not so much. But hey, who am I? Cook up my g.
@@saviormonroe-lh7oh well, wanna talk about it? What’d you disagree with and why? And did you enjoy watching the video, or not? You’re free to have a different opinion, but I’d be curious to know!
@LordKhuryGaming just because I disagreed doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the video. I don't get hurt over opinions. Some of the stuff I felt was just an outlook from somebody who misunderstood the reasoning behind things. Alonzo in particular. His bond story was dope because of what he was trying to get across to the protagonist and it was parallel with the faker/trickster hero archetype. And most of all, Alonzo had one of the most memorable bonds. And impact, imo, is the most important.
@@saviormonroe-lh7oh I understood what they were trying to communicate with Alonzo’s story. What my main issue was, was that I personally felt the delivery of the content was really poor and unbelievable. So I didn’t enjoy it, because it didn’t feel real to me at all. Personal preference on that front
@@saviormonroe-lh7oh were there any other characters you felt I misunderstood?
NOOOOOOOO!
-_-