Hi there! I'm currently sitting in bed at 3 o'clock in the morning and I just watched through this entire video. First of all I just want to say that this is my first time with your content but you absolutely earned a sub with me, I found the way you laid out your points incredibly chill to listen to and while many critiques of games can sound judgmental I think you held yourself incredibly well and likable which I enjoyed greatly. Metaphor ReFantazio is my personal game of the year so to hear an incredibly chill and fair critique of it is awesome honestly. If you'll forgive the paragraphs that are about to ensue I would like to share my thoughts on a couple of your points from a different (completely subjective) opinion. I hope you don't take my extensive ranting past this point at criticisms against you at all as they are just my opinion. 1.) Maybe I just love reading world lore and stuff like that but I didn't mind when a long slew of dialogue and story building would happen, but I'm a guy whose read Lord of the Rings and Wheel of Time so I'm just a glutton for world building lol. I'm also relieved because some people, when comparing this and Persona 5 Royal, were talking about how they think the Yaldabaoth plot and the Royal Scepter plot were too similar so I'm glad to hear you didn't think so! 2.) I think Louis ties with Maruki as my favorite villain in an Atlus game but for two very different reasons. With Maruki I absolutely agree that he wouldn't have been nearly as great a villain if you didn't have his confidant and he's the best sympathetic villain I've ever seen in a game. I think Louis benefits from being on the opposite side of that coin. Louis is sympathetic to an extent for sure but I think his main strength as a villain is being absolutely apologetically evil. You are told from the word go that he is the bad guy and he's built up as such a terrible person that when your about to meet him you expect some grand liar and scoundrel but when you actually meet him he's totally upfront about all his evil shit and says multiple times that his methods are harsh but it's what he deems the right path. To be honest I personally think that a Louis confidant would be sort of redundant and unnecessary seeing as how he's written as someone whose motivations and thought process are very clear at pretty much all times. He just isn't a character that needs a whole confidant in my opinion and I love that, it's refreshing for a villain. 3.) I fully agree with all your points on Strohl, Hulkenburg and Heismay but I have different feelings about the other three. Junah absolutely doesn't get the Haru treatment in my opinion I think she has plenty of time to shine especially with her connection with Rella, I feel like placement wise she feels way more like Makoto to me than Haru. Eupha I think got the worst treatment of all the party members seeing as she is only introduced briefly at the beginning of the Dragon Isles section of the game and you don't even get her as a party member until the end of that dungeon. Honestly If they just made her more involved before the dungeon after you get on the island and make her a party member earlier in the dungeon it would have been ten times better. Bas is who I wholeheartedly disagree with you on the most and he was also the party member who I was the most impressed with in terms of story integration. The thing I think they did with him that I absolutely loved was they made the Magnus brothers travel to the Dragon Isles with us, and while he may have not been a part of the party at that point him and Del were constant characters that you interacted with and I got very attached to them by the time we got to Altabury. I think it was a great way for Bas to avoid the Haru syndrome personally. 4.) Short point here: while I absolutely agree that the Mage Academy should have been another separate dungeon I disagree that the Eldan Sanctum should have been a dungeon solely for the reason that I think it would have bloated the game unnecessarily, but that's just me. 5.) Last notes on the character section: I personally enjoy the Follower system a lot more than the confidant system, where when you hang out with a follower you're guaranteed to rank up with them. It makes managing your time a lot less stressful than in persona games (especially Persona 3 Reload). I also think that it would have been very difficult to fit Catherina in as a whole party member narratively and was pretty content with her being just a follower. 6.) Really short for the gameplay section because I agree with almost all the points you say here. I will say that I think Metaphor balances it's game a lot better than Persona because with Persona games I always breeze through the endgames and final bosses pretty easily on hard, but in metaphor I got my ass handed to me on hard multiple times on multiple occasions and the final boss was hands down one of the most satisfying bosses I've ever taken down because of how hard he was. 7.) Small note on the music: I do agree that I like Persona's ost more but I will say the Louis boss theme is badass and I listen to it daily lol. Also Akademia's theme trumps the Velvet Room theme for me and it's reprise in the final boss theme gave me chills. 8.) Last note on the voice acting thing: Honestly this might not be why it's not fully voice acted but I will put out there that for the last 4 months or so and with game production it's always been my understanding that VA work comes late in production. They may have not finished batches of lines due to these strikes and scraped a lot of voiced lines to make it less noticeable (mainly follower ranks and Max rank convos at the end of the game for example) I might totally be wrong so take it with a grain of salt but that's my thought process and I hope if there is a royal version of this game they remedy it. All in all you have more than gained a sub in me man. I think all your thoughts were really well voiced and the video is well put together! I'm sorry if this comment runs way too long but I've always been one to discuss and I think your video was really thought provoking to me. Keep doing what your doing and I can't wait for future content!
@@ColeWendlerC17 Dude, thank you so much!!! Seriously, I can’t express how much it means to me that you’ve found your way here, as I pour a lot into making these videos, and I do it for others who are just as passionate about games. So happy the algorithm lead you here lol. Zero need to apologize for the paragraphs, I will always make time for ppl who engage with my content, even if they disagree with my takes! I’ll number my responses based off your corresponding numbers. 1)Tbh, I’m right there with you. I personally don’t actually mind sitting back and absorbing story for lengths at a time. I think what I tried to articulate was that in this particular game, maybe they could’ve achieved a more gradual flow of information/lore being conveyed, so that they could have more character/personality/camaraderie moments for the characters. As far as the royal scepter/Yaldabaoth comp that ppl are making, I think that it’s lazy to be honest. You can glance at the two games and easily point out similarities, but as far as a deeper analysis, I think the themes/stories/messages of the two games are very different. 2)Honestly, I can see what you’re saying here, and I think your argument for no Louis confidant is strong. I think where I come from, is that from a role playing perspective this game would’ve benefited from having it. Maybe I should’ve mentioned it in the video, but for example how Akechi’s final persona evolution in Royal to Hereward, can only be unlocked if you choose the right answers in his Confidant and in the scenes with Maruki. Or how you wouldn’t unlock the third semester if you didn’t rank Kasumi and Maruki’s confidant. I quite like these role playing elements, because for me at least it builds a sense of personal involvement in the narrative. I feel like I earned it more when I unlock that persona for akechi, or if I take down Maruki. So it’s mainly from this perspective I feel Louis could’ve benefitted from a confidante, I think the Louis Eldan reveal would’ve hit more if it was actually hard to achieve/locked behind player choices. And I think the story could’ve benefited from more one on one time between Louis and the Prince, because they’re basically the only two main characters in the game who are Eldan. All that said, I do think your argument is strong and you articulated extremely well what makes Louis so likable/charismatic - he deplores lying and dishonesty and is so clear and upfront about everything. We’re definitely aligned on the fact that as is, he’s a wonderful character and he does work extremely well as is, in the narrative. 3)Honestly, you make a great point about Junah. I guess in my mind I affiliated her so much with the latter acts of the game that I kind of mentally grouped her with Basilio and Eupha. But you’re definitely right that she didn’t get the Haru treatment, and aligns way closer with Makoto in terms of the narrative and time spent on the stage so to speak. I think in terms of your disagreement on Basilio, I think that you are correct. They did make an effort to give you time to build affinity towards the Magnus Brothers, in spite of how little time you play with Basilio as a member of your party. I think something I struggle with with this game, is that I feel like I should be more satisfied than I am with the way they handled a lot of things, but I just wasn’t. In other words my bar might be unfairly high. And I think that’s less about the game, and more about me and my personal expectations. I’ve played a lot of video games, and I feel like I’m at the point where I can struggle to not kind of hone in on minor flaws/points of improvement, especially for a game such as this that is a spiritual successor to a slew of masterpieces from Atlus. It feels like their minor issues of the past shouldn’t continue to show up (imo). Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely loved the experience and am grateful for Metaphor ReFantazio. But I can’t ignore that I felt different to when I finished Persona 5 Royal, and kind of identifying all of these minor reasons for why. It makes me wonder if the release dates of the two games were swapped, would I be making basically the same video? Saying that Haru suffered from the “Basilio problem”? So it’s tough it’s like I agree with you in that they did a great job with Basilio considering narratively how late he had to officially join (maybe saying the Haru treatment was slightly hyperbolic, I agree they did do better with him than Haru) but I do wish that they handled things in the way I mentioned in the video instead :/ 4)Not much to add here that wasn’t in the video, agree to disagree my friend :) 5)Yeah this point comes down to how you feel about the calendar system I reckon. Metaphor definitely had way less stress, like I mentioned I had everything done and maxed with like 5-6 days to spare. But I think I personally lean towards liking the management/stress of potentially not getting everything done, idk it feels like a game within a game to me, and imo enhances replayability (like having all your stats maxed in new game plus and being able to get everything done in your second playthrough) I can see both sides tbh. As someone who always plays games blind with no guides, it was nice in metaphor feeling in control of completing everything without needing a guide for like the most efficient use of time or whatever. + Yeah Catherina as a party member could make things tight in the narrative, but I suppose I would only prefer this if they were to add the two dungeons I mentioned. Then there would be room in the narrative I reckon. But I don’t actually feel very strongly on this one, I’m okay with her just being a follower as well tbh, party member would be dope though, would be nice to not have to wait all the way until Heismay to be running with a squad of 4. 6)Completely agree on this one. Love how things actually were difficult late game. 7)Completely agree! Mad I forgot to include that now lol, that reprise was EPIC! 8)That’s fascinating, and would make sense. It was definitely confounding to see the amount of voiced lines. Thanks again dude for watching, and stopping by for a chat! Definitely more content to come and always down to chat down here in the comments
@@LordKhuryGaming I can absolutely see your side on all of these arguments, you articulated your argument very well! Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts my man, I’m so glad I found your channel! Can’t wait for more in the future!
I read the smallest bit of this to avoid spoilers and YALDABAOTH??? Idc which game he's in between this and P5, I've just been learning a ton about Gnosticism and Yaldabaoth is such an interesting concept. I know my brother said he's one of the personas, I might've seen him in P1 but I'm not far enough in P5.
@@concerninghobbits5536 my friend thank you for stopping by, but please leave for your own sake lol! This is not a spoiler free environment, in fact it's the opposite 😂 definitely would love to hear your opinion after you finish up these games though, if you can remember to come back here afterwards
@@LordKhuryGaming yup! I clicked mostly to see the vibe of the video and it seems like I'll enjoy it, for now I was looking at your other vids though, gonna check out the female protagonist and the two top five ones for sure, probably the Baldurs Gate one too. As cursed as TH-cam and it's algorithm is I've been finding a lot of really good content by new/small channels so they're not an entirely lost cause
Another thing I wish they didn't do in Metaphor was give the Gauntlet Runner the ability to fly permanently. I really enjoyed the planning aspect of doing the "road trips". Like checking the weather and then planning out my route to hit the dungeon during good weather. Then getting the chance to do all the activities on the gauntlet running without it feeling like it was a waste of time. The road tripping aspect really only applied during Martia and Brilehaven. The Virga Islands were so linear in their layout (it's basically just 2 spirals) that you couldn't like go one place and then choose to go to another before returning back to home. And then after Virga Islands you can fly and then all travel becomes trivial (except for the 1 single path you couldn't fly for some reason)
@@CodedGames 100% agree here. Or at least lock that ability later in the game, like maybe you get it permanently after you clear the royal palace dungeon. I think the root of this issue is that Metaphor almost seems to go out of its way to remove or lessen RPG elements / things that can make your path through the game less complete or different. You can feel this based off of how many extra days are left at the end of the game with an optimal playthrough (it’s like 5-7 days or so) and also on negligible things, like the fact you can’t romance anyone. It feels like Atlus wanted this game to be as linear as possible, in spite of the fact it’s an RPG. There’s a lot more illusion of choice & consequence in Metaphor, than there is in Persona 5 Royal.
26:03 personally couldn’t disagree with you more. Alonzo is legitimately one of my favorite character in the entire. And probably my favorite confidence up there with Akanari 27:35 but you can though . Eupha is his canon girlfriend.
Fair enough my friend, I know I'm in the minority when it comes to that Alonzo take! Seems like most people enjoyed him a lot and I love that for y'all
Personally, I say that the biggest complaint I have for the game is Rella. I feel like she should’ve had a dungeon and confident. Like maybe they’ll add it in the re-release or DLC but I think she had a really cool alternative to Will and Louis which was similar to maruki “ creating a world free from pain and anxiety”. Instead of using anxiety (magic) to get rid of discrimination and make things equal . Use magic to get rid of anxiety and worry altogether. It would give the gang a new perspective to wrestle with themselves whether or not it’s correct considering what anxiety has brought to the old world
I'm right there with you. She was a really great foil to both Louis and the protagonist. Could've been a lot more deep than it ended up being. Still though, I don't think they necessarily did a bad job with her so to speak, you know?
Honestly, I think this is a very good and fair video. I agree with most of your points, mostly dungeon designs, character development and story pacing, and replay value. You cooked with the aditional dungeons, specially the academy one. I'd say that one of the biggest faults with the main cast is the lack of chemistry, dynamics, conflict and relationships between the party members. There was so many blueprints and opportunities to develop them, but the pacing of the story lead to all of them being pretty much unexplored. The biggest sin is pushing Heismay's prejudice towards the Paripus until the very end. Such a great chance to explore conflict between the group and breaking from the personal biases and the mentality of being raised in a society with racism at it's core. Like, what if Heismay and the Magnus brothers get to escape, and now they have to work together in order to rescue the group at the island, and then later Hesimay helps Basilio through his grief after losing Del, leading to a proper bond between them, so Basilio asking him later if he's ok with dying along side a Paripus comes more naturally. Also the ending where the prince sides with Louis is the lamest thing that I've ever seen. What do you mean your group just gives up without any pushback? It was so anticlimatic lol
First of all thank you for stopping by, and I'm so glad you enjoyed the vid!! I completely agree on everything you say, and honestly the Heismay&paripus thing was so lowkey in the story it was literally like "wait did bro just say that?" every time he made a comment lol. Just a bit strange, but only because it wasn't explored as deeply as it should've been. I really like your fix for it! The root of the issue is exactly what I spoke about in the vid, as weird as it sounds, this game would've really been helped by a longer runtime. That "lack of chemistry and relationships between the party members" is mainly a thing I believe because unlike P5R for example, this is a fantasy world so they have to dedicate way more time to world building, setting, and exposition, leaving less time to get deeper into expanding the wonderful blueprints that exist for the character relationships. A shame, but very very very easily fixable should they do a remaster of this game sometime down the line. Still a masterpiece though 100%
@@LordKhuryGamingYeah glad you agree. Also on another note, with no romance routes, do you think it would had been a good idea to explore romance between party members? Persona tried to do that before, but they couldn't commit because they had to leave every girl free for the protagonist. I think it would had been an interesting idea never fully explored in an Atlus game before, tho I don't think anyone in the group has romantic tention lol.
@ yeah personally I like at least having the choice of romance in my RPG’s, it’s just another way for me as a player to feel more immersed/feel like I am playing through my own unique personal journey… So a way that works imo, is when games set it up so that if the player doesn’t romance someone, then they can end up with somebody else on the team who it makes sense for them to be with. So you as a player still have first choice so to speak, but organically other ppl can still find other ppl. A great example that comes to mind, is in Mass Effect 3 (light spoilers follow) if you don’t romance Tali, you can end up finding her and Garrus getting together.
I feel like the only guy who thinks this game does things better than Persona in terms of gameplay and story...oh well, it sucks that it's stuck in it's shadow. I personally think it deserves far more than that.
Thanks for dropping a comment! If you watch the video, you'll find that you're not alone. I highlight many amazing things this game does, both in terms of the gameplay and the story. I also don't think that in terms of the consensus, that this game sits in Persona 5 Royal's shadow. It sold extremely well, has critical acclaim, and is up for Game of the Year. Can't ask for much more than that.
Overall I like them about the same. Both are easy 10s. I live Metaphor’s OST… but I truly think it has nothing on Persona. Every track there was magical, and some of those OST are the best ever. Secondly, I think Royal expansion made it a lot better. More dungeon stuff, way better bosses, plot, etc, not even counting 3rd semester. I would LOVE if metaphor got that treatment. Improve dungeons, add new boss phases and mechanics, more requests, new areas, and an actual story expansion.
@@wr5488 very well put!! If Metaphor got that treatment and they execute it well, for me it could definitely surpass P5R. But they’re already pretty comparable, two nearly flawless games
Bless the algorithm that I came across this video. While I agree with most of your points, I believe that the phrasing "Persona 5 ruined Metaphor" kinda goes in clickbaity territory and bit disingenuous. Like honestly when I saw the video in my recommended, I thought it will detail on how much Metaphor "copied" from Persona 5 rather than how it failed to reach the peaks that Persona 5 set. Coming to the actual video, I pretty much agree with everything you mentioned except the Basilio part that he didn't get enough screen time. In my opinion, he got enough screen time because he was introduced in the third dungeon where you have to infiltrate Louis' gauntlet runner. Given that, I do agree that game could have benefitted with a bit more content as even though he had enough screen time to get attached with, players couldn't really use him effectively in battles. This was especially the case with Eupha. Like when I reached that point, I thought the game would only be at the half way point or something haha. But it was around 70% done and rest of the content felt rushed. Another good point that I heavily agree with is its lackluster new game plus. Like there's literally nothing you can do except fight the superboss. I would have wished if the archetypes did carry over so you could at least work towards mastering them from the get go rather than being gated behind followers. But yeah overall great video. I still very much like the story Metaphor is trying to tell and hopefully there is more from Atlus from this franchise than this being just a singular entry.
@@DebeshMishra03 thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, glad you agreed with so much of the vid! As far as the Eupha and basilio part, somebody else actually raised that point in the comments here and upon reflection I actually agree with y’all as far as that goes. Junah, Eupha, and Basilio were all handled quite differently (with Eupha probably getting the shortest end of the stick) so I probably shouldn’t have grouped them in the way I did. Completely aligned on the last part of your comment too, even if they don’t remaster this game, it’s such a wonderful world they’ve built and it would be a shame to not revisit it in future games. Apologies for the title of the video, I try my best to generate interest while also remaining faithful to the content of the video. In a sense it is true, deep down I do think there was an impact persona had on my playthrough of metaphor rather than if I had played metaphor with no prior experience. But I completely get your meaning. I’ll try not to toe the line as much in the future. But like how you said “bless the algorithm I came across this video” it’s tough as a small channel starting out. I feel like if I don’t try to package the video with interest-generating titles, then ppl like you who appreciate the content, won’t end up seeing it in your feed. But like I said, I’ll pay more attention to creating titles in the future that’re more in line with the content. I hear you fam
Awesome video! One thing I dislike about Metaphor is I can't escape the feeling that they cut things that, likely, will be added in a rerelease in the future. A confidant with Louis, Rella, Fidelio, or Batlin and another dungeon in Altabury (edit: lol made this comment before you talked about it in the video)
@@LordKhuryGaming It's worth noting, Atlus has explicitly stated on several occasions that SMTV: Vengeance was the last time they're going to do a re-release. Now, DLC isn't out of the picture, but a re-release doesn't feel like it's in the cards.
@@KashKey- Hmm I don't know if I'd entirely trust them. That sounds like something just to avoid people from not getting the game in favor of waiting for a rerelease. I'm sure it's at least like 5 years away but why wouldn't Atlus sell their game twice? It's been working well for them so far haha
@@KashKey- I recall hearing about this, but I'm willfully choosing to hope that they decide to do it anyways lol or they switch up cuz somebody in charge wants the money grab (because let's face it, it's a great way for Atlus to make $). Never say never 🤞🏿
Sorry dude, I want to like your content you've actually got a pretty good personality but the core issue is the fallacy of comparing it to Persona 5 rather than Katsura Hashino's entire library. Rest assured if P5 didn't exist this story would've been structured the exact same way because that's how Hashino wants to present his stories and even Catherine is loaded with the level of world detail, lore and social commentary that defines what these games are about. If you'd complaint about the things that actually do burden like the excessively long dungeons relative to the complete lack of MP recovery I'd kinda see some merit here but outside of it this video is too long winded in regards to the fallacy rather than owning up that Hashino's style of game (that is BL Kojima length stories dominating the structure) you're comparing it to P5.
@@Akechi_The_Phantom_Detective this could 100% just be me not being smart enough, but I’m struggling to find what your critique is of this video based off this comment? I don’t see any specific callouts of things I spoke about in this video, simply that I was long winded (fair opinion that I can take into consideration) and that I didn’t address a few things that you personally had wanted addressed in this video? If you could clarify/explain your meaning a bit more, I’d love to understand so I can at least respond/take it for data so I can improve.
@@LordKhuryGaming Bless you dude, what I'm saying is rather than take the time to make a well constructed critique of Metaphors own strength's and faults you are undermining all of them by trying to pin the blame on a game it is completely disconnected from. The fact you are using Royal a game that neither Hashino, nor Studio Zero's development team worked on highlights pretty damn clearly. This game was structured this way because Hashino wanted to create a game about social disparity and escapism. By the mans own words.... "I want something - even if it’s not complete, even if it’s really rough, even if it’s something really unfinished - to give me a glimpse of the humanity behind it." This is Hashino's game design philosophy and that's every bit as true for P5 as it was for P4, P3, Catherine and Metaphor and if you don't like that ethos I'd say it's probably safer to acknowledge that his games aren't your cup of tea and Royal in particular wasn't then maybe it's not the series for you.
@ So firstly no worries if you don’t read all this. But we’re pretty far apart so I thought I’d try to explain my side. I think there’s a disconnect here. I hate to ask, because I assumed you had before to be commenting in that way, but did you watch the entire video? Because I love this game and all of the games Atlus has made, and I don’t understand how you could have a takeaway that these games ‘aren’t for me’. I mean if you watched the video start to finish, I feel like you should be able to glean how much thought and love went into this game from my end. I also don’t understand how you got the take that I am ‘pinning blame’ on anything. In the most basic sense the premise of the comparison in this video is analyzing how my own personal prior experience with Persona 5 Royal impacted my own personal perception&experience playing through Metaphor. I also don’t see where you got that I am saying anything negative about the structure of the game itself… This video is basically a celebration of how good these two games are while also making minor critiques combined with fun ideas to address said critiques. I say each part of the game is holistically great, and then critique the few things I personally think could be improved. At no point do I lambast the structure/format of these games. At no point do I lambast the game design philosophy of these games. Tbh, it feels like you think Metaphor and all of their games are perfect (can’t get much closer to perfection, they are wonderful games) and you’re taking my few critiques on this game personally. I think we fundamentally disagree and won’t find common ground, if you’re under the impression that these games can’t be criticized in any capacity… Outside of your comment on MP recovery, which ironically I completely disagree with. I think the game gives you enough tools to mitigate against this, between skills that use HP, and MP recovery skills, and attack items, I think you have enough to effectively manage MP and get through dungeons cleanly. And even if you don’t, like I mentioned in the video I had 5-7 extra days at the end of my playthrough, so I reckon even if you take 2 days in a few of the dungeons, you’d still be fine. Just takes a little extra consideration. I think I gave feedback in a clear and fair way in this video, while also taking personal accountability for why I may feel the way I do, and I think other comments reflect that that’s the case as well. I respect and cherish these games, which we actually share in common, so i don’t appreciate being told these games aren’t for me 😂💀 Imo, elitist gatekeeping ain’t cool in any scenario, even if I hated these games, I don’t think it’s the right message to say “these aren’t for you” I think the better route would be to help someone understand the other perspective, and if they still don’t like the game after that, then just go on with your day. Idk I just feel the realm of video game opinion should be more collaborative and respectful than telling ppl they shouldn’t play games, even if they come to the table and say they hated a game you loved (which couldn’t be further from the case here…) Anybody is welcome to disagree with me, I welcome that and my conversations with other ppl reflect that that is the case. But I feel like you misconstrued my points and then spoke down to me by suggesting because of my differing opinions (which were misrepresented by you), that these games weren’t for me :/ All love and respect from my end though, and at the very least I genuinely appreciate you sharing your thoughts!
@@BoldfacedTony I felt a video like this, it would be obvious that there would be spoilers in it? I can definitely add to the description of the video if that isn’t clear though.
So i do agree with your point being the game should find more ways to expand to their world but because this is their first time making a fantasy game so that thing will be improved in the future. So the biggest thing i disagree about is the complaint about how Louis should have handled. I think that Louis was handled perfectly in this game. And it seems like you do have a big "Persona problem" when you are playing this game. Not everyone can have a social link, and especially Louis because who he is. The who time hes always the guy who stand above you, always 2 steps ahead before everythings you do, and thats what make him such a terrifying villain. And he not the guy that the main character could get along with either, even though he and the mc is still like 2 sides of the same coin like Adachi and Akechi. But he is different from them and will never lie in order to get along with the main character, simply because he hate lies. He was an elda child that was stuck in his village, always wanted to wander to the outside world just like the Prince. He hated his tribe for keep hiding in one place and stop taking actual action to change the world's reputation about their tribe. Thats why he so admire the king's idea of a utopia where all the tribes united at one. But seeing his hometown and his family was burned down right before him, even the king with most omnipotence magic could not stop it from happening. And to add more salts to the young boy's injury, he discovered the secret about the old world, when the people who once lived in the utopia that was written in the king's book still succumb to their fear and anxiety, which lead to the war that doom them all. Thats why he hate lies, especially lofty and false ideas. How they handle his characters is basically how the final boss fight was played out. The final boss fight wasnt us fighting him, but its only just Louis fighting with himself, struggle with his own fear and anxiety (fear of trusting other people, fear of not be able to make his ideas into reality, even fear to realize the flaws of his own actions and ideals, anxious about his the childhood incident might happend again, anxious about others betraying him, anxious about failing despite got so much power and envious to the Prince as well). This is why despite the power of Archetype, he could not utilized its power fully, because their strongest abilities is being able to synergize with others. The whole fight is just Louis fight with himself and ultimately lost to himself. Louis is not an antagonist like Akechi or Maruki for the player to sympathize but he is a complete villain and he knew it himself. Louis was handled so good in this game that you can just change the games name to Louis: Refantazio and its still fit. Theres a lot of reading between the lines and connecting the dots in this game, unlike Persona which everything was throw right into your face, and of course it is different. Its not Persona. And i also disagree with the music take. I have not played engage but Fe: 3 houses ost is no way nearly as good as this game. The cool moments where they traveling and seeing scenery in different places is actually one of Katsura Hashino's favourite moment in the game, as said in one of his interview. He's clearly intended to put it like that to encourage player's imagination in the game and i think its perfectly fine choices. Not everything should be explorable. Its feels like they are going on a journey with a mission, of course they are going to these places to take what they want and then leave. There are many cool places in the game but they just stop for a bit to appreciate the scenery and then continue on with their journey. They aren't going for a picnic? They have things to do. Thats why at the end they wanted to travel the world again. It make perfect sense. Another thing about the romance, the developers intention is clearly to seperate you and the main charcter as 2 different person by just naming 2 times, you are just a person who guide the mc. If you choose the mc's gf for him is just way too weird. And i have to say it again because its important, THIS IS NOT PERSONA. I personally still think this game is better than p5r in many aspects. While i do agree with your point about dungeons and enemies. Most of the things you dissatisfied about the game is basicly just: "this is not like persona, therefore i don't like it" kinda problem.
@LordKhuryGaming sorry for the Engage part, thats was my mistake, the music part is super subjective and i can understand that. Louis was built to be mysterious the entire way through and that's what makes him so charming and captivating for the player in the first place, so it's not entirely necessary in anyways for a social link with him. The dungeons and enemies design really shown that this is as big as they can possibly get. Because remember in persona 5 every single enemies is just demons from smt, you just fight persona and thats literally it. They really don't have to design, or remade the enemy that much and it is one of my biggest dissappointment in persona 5 when compared to 2 games before it. Studio Zero is a team that just separate themself from the Persona team to make this game and by no means a large studio, but i can see that they really go out their ways to design all these new enemies and archetypes, so they might running low on budget and time in the late game and have to repeat enemies and dungeons design is quite understandable. So the few fixes about "hey, just making more, its easy", no its really isn't. But even then, when you compare this game's side dungeons to p5's mementos, its still a huge step up for me. The things about branching paths for more replayability is also a good idea, but the games traversal is really tied to the story itself, so they really have to make the game have some kind of multi stories branching paths in order for it to happend. But for the reason i listed before, it is very unlikely. The game's content felt quite rushed at the end so i dont think they should bite more than what they can chew. And remember: making more social links means making more Archetypes as well. I'm not saying that you hate the game because it's not persona, i just think that there's so many of your disappointments that was addressed in this game is just what this game does different from persona, and for me those things are completely fine that they decided to make it that way because it is really not persona, and its should not be. If not they could just name it Persona and called it a day. I think the game could still use some improvements for sure, but you really have to take account for many things to decide „how to improve“. Exactly more so when this is their new IP, not under the name of Persona or SMT and they have to risk a lot to make it, so it's completely understandable that they might not be going all out on this game, especially when not knowing that this game can be successful or not. I think that the improvements by "making more" could be added to their next installment, very likely the sequel to this game but not this game specifically, this game did good for what it was set out to be, which is an introduction to Atlus 3rd Pillar.
@@stupid3814 I appreciate your insightful points. I think you did a great job of highlighting the perspective of the studio/the actual people who work on this game. You make very fair points in terms of how difficult some of my asks are, and with highlighting how this game wasn't just about this game, in terms of their planning. It's interesting to think of the risk assessment that goes into making a game that is a new world, and will hopefully spawn sequels. And again, I completely understand the efficacy of Louis as he is currently in the narrative. Just have a personal take there that I think would enhance an already great piece to the story. However I'm having trouble understanding again where you got some sentiments. I don't recall ever implying that their job is easy, or that it's simply a matter of flipping a switch to implement the things I mentioned. That was not my intent at all. I'm simply acknowledging the few things that didn't meet my expectations, and I think I mentioned as well both in the video and this comment section, that I'm aware and hold myself accountable for maybe having unfair expectations due to their previous releases. I've never once said this game wasn't a masterpiece, because it is. But I still feel it's fair to talk about things I felt they could've done better, even if it's 'unrealistic' or a huge ask to implement some of the things I mentioned. Also, I never advocated for more social links, I only advocated for one more. Louis. So that would only be one additional archetype tree, I think it's misrepresentative to suggest I'm out here saying to do a bunch more social links/asking them to design 20 more archetypes lol. Also you mentioned that this game's side dungeons are better than p5 mementos. Okay, but again this is a game that released years afterwards. So I don't think that simply being slightly better than p5 mementos, but still objectively poor, means I can't or shouldn't criticize it imo. And again, I think it's reductive that you're suggesting my disappointments with the game are simply elements that aren't the exact same as persona lol but at this point you're free to your opinion, no worries there 🤝 Bottom line, I feel like for the most part you are highlighting the perspective of the studio and ppl who work on this game, and using that as an argument against the things I speak about in this video. But at what point are we allowed to criticize a game? Like should we never criticize a game because they're difficult to make? And we should just accept it with zero critique every single time because they worked hard on it? Honestly, I think this is just a agree to disagree situation. Because I don't think that way. I think that you can still criticize a game even if it's a masterpiece. I think you can still give feedback and point out things you wish were different, even if it would be difficult from the studios perspective to implement those changes. I respect the blood sweat and tears that go into video games, but I don't think that the colossal efforts to make these pieces of art, automatically makes them free of criticism or feedback ¯\(ツ)/¯
@ i don’t say that you should not criticize the game or anything, i just said that some of your expectations might be too high for them to be able to offer. But i still think many of them are valid, and some of the things i disagree are the things i don’t personally thinks is a bad things thats all. And stating more of their situation is just to answer some of your remark in the video saying that „ heres an easy solution “, but in reality its just not that simple. Of course there are many things people can like or dislike about a game but sometimes the fault is not from the game itself, (like the musics, romances, ect…) those are clearly personal takes, not flaws in term of design. Thats just what im trying to say.
Hi there! I'm currently sitting in bed at 3 o'clock in the morning and I just watched through this entire video. First of all I just want to say that this is my first time with your content but you absolutely earned a sub with me, I found the way you laid out your points incredibly chill to listen to and while many critiques of games can sound judgmental I think you held yourself incredibly well and likable which I enjoyed greatly. Metaphor ReFantazio is my personal game of the year so to hear an incredibly chill and fair critique of it is awesome honestly. If you'll forgive the paragraphs that are about to ensue I would like to share my thoughts on a couple of your points from a different (completely subjective) opinion. I hope you don't take my extensive ranting past this point at criticisms against you at all as they are just my opinion.
1.) Maybe I just love reading world lore and stuff like that but I didn't mind when a long slew of dialogue and story building would happen, but I'm a guy whose read Lord of the Rings and Wheel of Time so I'm just a glutton for world building lol. I'm also relieved because some people, when comparing this and Persona 5 Royal, were talking about how they think the Yaldabaoth plot and the Royal Scepter plot were too similar so I'm glad to hear you didn't think so!
2.) I think Louis ties with Maruki as my favorite villain in an Atlus game but for two very different reasons. With Maruki I absolutely agree that he wouldn't have been nearly as great a villain if you didn't have his confidant and he's the best sympathetic villain I've ever seen in a game. I think Louis benefits from being on the opposite side of that coin. Louis is sympathetic to an extent for sure but I think his main strength as a villain is being absolutely apologetically evil. You are told from the word go that he is the bad guy and he's built up as such a terrible person that when your about to meet him you expect some grand liar and scoundrel but when you actually meet him he's totally upfront about all his evil shit and says multiple times that his methods are harsh but it's what he deems the right path. To be honest I personally think that a Louis confidant would be sort of redundant and unnecessary seeing as how he's written as someone whose motivations and thought process are very clear at pretty much all times. He just isn't a character that needs a whole confidant in my opinion and I love that, it's refreshing for a villain.
3.) I fully agree with all your points on Strohl, Hulkenburg and Heismay but I have different feelings about the other three. Junah absolutely doesn't get the Haru treatment in my opinion I think she has plenty of time to shine especially with her connection with Rella, I feel like placement wise she feels way more like Makoto to me than Haru. Eupha I think got the worst treatment of all the party members seeing as she is only introduced briefly at the beginning of the Dragon Isles section of the game and you don't even get her as a party member until the end of that dungeon. Honestly If they just made her more involved before the dungeon after you get on the island and make her a party member earlier in the dungeon it would have been ten times better. Bas is who I wholeheartedly disagree with you on the most and he was also the party member who I was the most impressed with in terms of story integration. The thing I think they did with him that I absolutely loved was they made the Magnus brothers travel to the Dragon Isles with us, and while he may have not been a part of the party at that point him and Del were constant characters that you interacted with and I got very attached to them by the time we got to Altabury. I think it was a great way for Bas to avoid the Haru syndrome personally.
4.) Short point here: while I absolutely agree that the Mage Academy should have been another separate dungeon I disagree that the Eldan Sanctum should have been a dungeon solely for the reason that I think it would have bloated the game unnecessarily, but that's just me.
5.) Last notes on the character section: I personally enjoy the Follower system a lot more than the confidant system, where when you hang out with a follower you're guaranteed to rank up with them. It makes managing your time a lot less stressful than in persona games (especially Persona 3 Reload). I also think that it would have been very difficult to fit Catherina in as a whole party member narratively and was pretty content with her being just a follower.
6.) Really short for the gameplay section because I agree with almost all the points you say here. I will say that I think Metaphor balances it's game a lot better than Persona because with Persona games I always breeze through the endgames and final bosses pretty easily on hard, but in metaphor I got my ass handed to me on hard multiple times on multiple occasions and the final boss was hands down one of the most satisfying bosses I've ever taken down because of how hard he was.
7.) Small note on the music: I do agree that I like Persona's ost more but I will say the Louis boss theme is badass and I listen to it daily lol. Also Akademia's theme trumps the Velvet Room theme for me and it's reprise in the final boss theme gave me chills.
8.) Last note on the voice acting thing: Honestly this might not be why it's not fully voice acted but I will put out there that for the last 4 months or so and with game production it's always been my understanding that VA work comes late in production. They may have not finished batches of lines due to these strikes and scraped a lot of voiced lines to make it less noticeable (mainly follower ranks and Max rank convos at the end of the game for example) I might totally be wrong so take it with a grain of salt but that's my thought process and I hope if there is a royal version of this game they remedy it.
All in all you have more than gained a sub in me man. I think all your thoughts were really well voiced and the video is well put together! I'm sorry if this comment runs way too long but I've always been one to discuss and I think your video was really thought provoking to me. Keep doing what your doing and I can't wait for future content!
@@ColeWendlerC17 Dude, thank you so much!!! Seriously, I can’t express how much it means to me that you’ve found your way here, as I pour a lot into making these videos, and I do it for others who are just as passionate about games.
So happy the algorithm lead you here lol. Zero need to apologize for the paragraphs, I will always make time for ppl who engage with my content, even if they disagree with my takes! I’ll number my responses based off your corresponding numbers.
1)Tbh, I’m right there with you. I personally don’t actually mind sitting back and absorbing story for lengths at a time. I think what I tried to articulate was that in this particular game, maybe they could’ve achieved a more gradual flow of information/lore being conveyed, so that they could have more character/personality/camaraderie moments for the characters. As far as the royal scepter/Yaldabaoth comp that ppl are making, I think that it’s lazy to be honest. You can glance at the two games and easily point out similarities, but as far as a deeper analysis, I think the themes/stories/messages of the two games are very different.
2)Honestly, I can see what you’re saying here, and I think your argument for no Louis confidant is strong. I think where I come from, is that from a role playing perspective this game would’ve benefited from having it. Maybe I should’ve mentioned it in the video, but for example how Akechi’s final persona evolution in Royal to Hereward, can only be unlocked if you choose the right answers in his Confidant and in the scenes with Maruki. Or how you wouldn’t unlock the third semester if you didn’t rank Kasumi and Maruki’s confidant. I quite like these role playing elements, because for me at least it builds a sense of personal involvement in the narrative. I feel like I earned it more when I unlock that persona for akechi, or if I take down Maruki.
So it’s mainly from this perspective I feel Louis could’ve benefitted from a confidante, I think the Louis Eldan reveal would’ve hit more if it was actually hard to achieve/locked behind player choices. And I think the story could’ve benefited from more one on one time between Louis and the Prince, because they’re basically the only two main characters in the game who are Eldan.
All that said, I do think your argument is strong and you articulated extremely well what makes Louis so likable/charismatic - he deplores lying and dishonesty and is so clear and upfront about everything. We’re definitely aligned on the fact that as is, he’s a wonderful character and he does work extremely well as is, in the narrative.
3)Honestly, you make a great point about Junah. I guess in my mind I affiliated her so much with the latter acts of the game that I kind of mentally grouped her with Basilio and Eupha. But you’re definitely right that she didn’t get the Haru treatment, and aligns way closer with Makoto in terms of the narrative and time spent on the stage so to speak. I think in terms of your disagreement on Basilio, I think that you are correct. They did make an effort to give you time to build affinity towards the Magnus Brothers, in spite of how little time you play with Basilio as a member of your party.
I think something I struggle with with this game, is that I feel like I should be more satisfied than I am with the way they handled a lot of things, but I just wasn’t. In other words my bar might be unfairly high. And I think that’s less about the game, and more about me and my personal expectations. I’ve played a lot of video games, and I feel like I’m at the point where I can struggle to not kind of hone in on minor flaws/points of improvement, especially for a game such as this that is a spiritual successor to a slew of masterpieces from Atlus. It feels like their minor issues of the past shouldn’t continue to show up (imo).
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely loved the experience and am grateful for Metaphor ReFantazio. But I can’t ignore that I felt different to when I finished Persona 5 Royal, and kind of identifying all of these minor reasons for why. It makes me wonder if the release dates of the two games were swapped, would I be making basically the same video? Saying that Haru suffered from the “Basilio problem”?
So it’s tough it’s like I agree with you in that they did a great job with Basilio considering narratively how late he had to officially join (maybe saying the Haru treatment was slightly hyperbolic, I agree they did do better with him than Haru) but I do wish that they handled things in the way I mentioned in the video instead :/
4)Not much to add here that wasn’t in the video, agree to disagree my friend :)
5)Yeah this point comes down to how you feel about the calendar system I reckon. Metaphor definitely had way less stress, like I mentioned I had everything done and maxed with like 5-6 days to spare. But I think I personally lean towards liking the management/stress of potentially not getting everything done, idk it feels like a game within a game to me, and imo enhances replayability (like having all your stats maxed in new game plus and being able to get everything done in your second playthrough) I can see both sides tbh. As someone who always plays games blind with no guides, it was nice in metaphor feeling in control of completing everything without needing a guide for like the most efficient use of time or whatever.
+ Yeah Catherina as a party member could make things tight in the narrative, but I suppose I would only prefer this if they were to add the two dungeons I mentioned. Then there would be room in the narrative I reckon. But I don’t actually feel very strongly on this one, I’m okay with her just being a follower as well tbh, party member would be dope though, would be nice to not have to wait all the way until Heismay to be running with a squad of 4.
6)Completely agree on this one. Love how things actually were difficult late game.
7)Completely agree! Mad I forgot to include that now lol, that reprise was EPIC!
8)That’s fascinating, and would make sense. It was definitely confounding to see the amount of voiced lines.
Thanks again dude for watching, and stopping by for a chat! Definitely more content to come and always down to chat down here in the comments
@@LordKhuryGaming I can absolutely see your side on all of these arguments, you articulated your argument very well! Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts my man, I’m so glad I found your channel! Can’t wait for more in the future!
I read the smallest bit of this to avoid spoilers and YALDABAOTH??? Idc which game he's in between this and P5, I've just been learning a ton about Gnosticism and Yaldabaoth is such an interesting concept. I know my brother said he's one of the personas, I might've seen him in P1 but I'm not far enough in P5.
@@concerninghobbits5536 my friend thank you for stopping by, but please leave for your own sake lol! This is not a spoiler free environment, in fact it's the opposite 😂
definitely would love to hear your opinion after you finish up these games though, if you can remember to come back here afterwards
@@LordKhuryGaming yup! I clicked mostly to see the vibe of the video and it seems like I'll enjoy it, for now I was looking at your other vids though, gonna check out the female protagonist and the two top five ones for sure, probably the Baldurs Gate one too. As cursed as TH-cam and it's algorithm is I've been finding a lot of really good content by new/small channels so they're not an entirely lost cause
Another thing I wish they didn't do in Metaphor was give the Gauntlet Runner the ability to fly permanently. I really enjoyed the planning aspect of doing the "road trips". Like checking the weather and then planning out my route to hit the dungeon during good weather. Then getting the chance to do all the activities on the gauntlet running without it feeling like it was a waste of time. The road tripping aspect really only applied during Martia and Brilehaven. The Virga Islands were so linear in their layout (it's basically just 2 spirals) that you couldn't like go one place and then choose to go to another before returning back to home. And then after Virga Islands you can fly and then all travel becomes trivial (except for the 1 single path you couldn't fly for some reason)
@@CodedGames 100% agree here. Or at least lock that ability later in the game, like maybe you get it permanently after you clear the royal palace dungeon.
I think the root of this issue is that Metaphor almost seems to go out of its way to remove or lessen RPG elements / things that can make your path through the game less complete or different.
You can feel this based off of how many extra days are left at the end of the game with an optimal playthrough (it’s like 5-7 days or so) and also on negligible things, like the fact you can’t romance anyone. It feels like Atlus wanted this game to be as linear as possible, in spite of the fact it’s an RPG. There’s a lot more illusion of choice & consequence in Metaphor, than there is in Persona 5 Royal.
Yeah! I figure it’s ‘endgame’ but there’s still quite a bit more after. Took away from the adventure part I felt.
26:03 personally couldn’t disagree with you more. Alonzo is legitimately one of my favorite character in the entire. And probably my favorite confidence up there with Akanari
27:35 but you can though . Eupha is his canon girlfriend.
Fair enough my friend, I know I'm in the minority when it comes to that Alonzo take! Seems like most people enjoyed him a lot and I love that for y'all
Personally, I say that the biggest complaint I have for the game is Rella.
I feel like she should’ve had a dungeon and confident.
Like maybe they’ll add it in the re-release or DLC but I think she had a really cool alternative to Will and Louis which was similar to maruki “ creating a world free from pain and anxiety”.
Instead of using anxiety (magic) to get rid of discrimination and make things equal . Use magic to get rid of anxiety and worry altogether.
It would give the gang a new perspective to wrestle with themselves whether or not it’s correct considering what anxiety has brought to the old world
I'm right there with you. She was a really great foil to both Louis and the protagonist. Could've been a lot more deep than it ended up being. Still though, I don't think they necessarily did a bad job with her so to speak, you know?
great narration and audio quality. hopefully more people find your channel.
Appreciate you more than you know. Thank you, glad you enjoyed!
Honestly, I think this is a very good and fair video. I agree with most of your points, mostly dungeon designs, character development and story pacing, and replay value. You cooked with the aditional dungeons, specially the academy one.
I'd say that one of the biggest faults with the main cast is the lack of chemistry, dynamics, conflict and relationships between the party members. There was so many blueprints and opportunities to develop them, but the pacing of the story lead to all of them being pretty much unexplored.
The biggest sin is pushing Heismay's prejudice towards the Paripus until the very end. Such a great chance to explore conflict between the group and breaking from the personal biases and the mentality of being raised in a society with racism at it's core. Like, what if Heismay and the Magnus brothers get to escape, and now they have to work together in order to rescue the group at the island, and then later Hesimay helps Basilio through his grief after losing Del, leading to a proper bond between them, so Basilio asking him later if he's ok with dying along side a Paripus comes more naturally.
Also the ending where the prince sides with Louis is the lamest thing that I've ever seen. What do you mean your group just gives up without any pushback? It was so anticlimatic lol
First of all thank you for stopping by, and I'm so glad you enjoyed the vid!!
I completely agree on everything you say, and honestly the Heismay&paripus thing was so lowkey in the story it was literally like "wait did bro just say that?" every time he made a comment lol. Just a bit strange, but only because it wasn't explored as deeply as it should've been. I really like your fix for it!
The root of the issue is exactly what I spoke about in the vid, as weird as it sounds, this game would've really been helped by a longer runtime. That "lack of chemistry and relationships between the party members" is mainly a thing I believe because unlike P5R for example, this is a fantasy world so they have to dedicate way more time to world building, setting, and exposition, leaving less time to get deeper into expanding the wonderful blueprints that exist for the character relationships.
A shame, but very very very easily fixable should they do a remaster of this game sometime down the line. Still a masterpiece though 100%
@@LordKhuryGamingYeah glad you agree. Also on another note, with no romance routes, do you think it would had been a good idea to explore romance between party members? Persona tried to do that before, but they couldn't commit because they had to leave every girl free for the protagonist. I think it would had been an interesting idea never fully explored in an Atlus game before, tho I don't think anyone in the group has romantic tention lol.
@ yeah personally I like at least having the choice of romance in my RPG’s, it’s just another way for me as a player to feel more immersed/feel like I am playing through my own unique personal journey…
So a way that works imo, is when games set it up so that if the player doesn’t romance someone, then they can end up with somebody else on the team who it makes sense for them to be with.
So you as a player still have first choice so to speak, but organically other ppl can still find other ppl. A great example that comes to mind, is in Mass Effect 3 (light spoilers follow) if you don’t romance Tali, you can end up finding her and Garrus getting together.
I feel like the only guy who thinks this game does things better than Persona in terms of gameplay and story...oh well, it sucks that it's stuck in it's shadow. I personally think it deserves far more than that.
Thanks for dropping a comment! If you watch the video, you'll find that you're not alone. I highlight many amazing things this game does, both in terms of the gameplay and the story. I also don't think that in terms of the consensus, that this game sits in Persona 5 Royal's shadow. It sold extremely well, has critical acclaim, and is up for Game of the Year. Can't ask for much more than that.
Overall I like them about the same. Both are easy 10s.
I live Metaphor’s OST… but I truly think it has nothing on Persona. Every track there was magical, and some of those OST are the best ever.
Secondly, I think Royal expansion made it a lot better. More dungeon stuff, way better bosses, plot, etc, not even counting 3rd semester. I would LOVE if metaphor got that treatment. Improve dungeons, add new boss phases and mechanics, more requests, new areas, and an actual story expansion.
@@wr5488 very well put!! If Metaphor got that treatment and they execute it well, for me it could definitely surpass P5R. But they’re already pretty comparable, two nearly flawless games
Bless the algorithm that I came across this video. While I agree with most of your points, I believe that the phrasing "Persona 5 ruined Metaphor" kinda goes in clickbaity territory and bit disingenuous. Like honestly when I saw the video in my recommended, I thought it will detail on how much Metaphor "copied" from Persona 5 rather than how it failed to reach the peaks that Persona 5 set.
Coming to the actual video, I pretty much agree with everything you mentioned except the Basilio part that he didn't get enough screen time. In my opinion, he got enough screen time because he was introduced in the third dungeon where you have to infiltrate Louis' gauntlet runner. Given that, I do agree that game could have benefitted with a bit more content as even though he had enough screen time to get attached with, players couldn't really use him effectively in battles. This was especially the case with Eupha. Like when I reached that point, I thought the game would only be at the half way point or something haha. But it was around 70% done and rest of the content felt rushed.
Another good point that I heavily agree with is its lackluster new game plus. Like there's literally nothing you can do except fight the superboss. I would have wished if the archetypes did carry over so you could at least work towards mastering them from the get go rather than being gated behind followers.
But yeah overall great video. I still very much like the story Metaphor is trying to tell and hopefully there is more from Atlus from this franchise than this being just a singular entry.
@@DebeshMishra03 thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, glad you agreed with so much of the vid!
As far as the Eupha and basilio part, somebody else actually raised that point in the comments here and upon reflection I actually agree with y’all as far as that goes. Junah, Eupha, and Basilio were all handled quite differently (with Eupha probably getting the shortest end of the stick) so I probably shouldn’t have grouped them in the way I did.
Completely aligned on the last part of your comment too, even if they don’t remaster this game, it’s such a wonderful world they’ve built and it would be a shame to not revisit it in future games.
Apologies for the title of the video, I try my best to generate interest while also remaining faithful to the content of the video. In a sense it is true, deep down I do think there was an impact persona had on my playthrough of metaphor rather than if I had played metaphor with no prior experience. But I completely get your meaning. I’ll try not to toe the line as much in the future.
But like how you said “bless the algorithm I came across this video” it’s tough as a small channel starting out. I feel like if I don’t try to package the video with interest-generating titles, then ppl like you who appreciate the content, won’t end up seeing it in your feed. But like I said, I’ll pay more attention to creating titles in the future that’re more in line with the content. I hear you fam
The beginning was so good too, then somewhere in the middle it was only persona lmao
Awesome video! One thing I dislike about Metaphor is I can't escape the feeling that they cut things that, likely, will be added in a rerelease in the future. A confidant with Louis, Rella, Fidelio, or Batlin and another dungeon in Altabury (edit: lol made this comment before you talked about it in the video)
@@CodedGames Thanks so much for watching, and stopping by to comment
@@LordKhuryGaming It's worth noting, Atlus has explicitly stated on several occasions that SMTV: Vengeance was the last time they're going to do a re-release. Now, DLC isn't out of the picture, but a re-release doesn't feel like it's in the cards.
@@KashKey- Hmm I don't know if I'd entirely trust them. That sounds like something just to avoid people from not getting the game in favor of waiting for a rerelease. I'm sure it's at least like 5 years away but why wouldn't Atlus sell their game twice? It's been working well for them so far haha
@@KashKey- I recall hearing about this, but I'm willfully choosing to hope that they decide to do it anyways lol or they switch up cuz somebody in charge wants the money grab (because let's face it, it's a great way for Atlus to make $). Never say never 🤞🏿
Sorry dude, I want to like your content you've actually got a pretty good personality but the core issue is the fallacy of comparing it to Persona 5 rather than Katsura Hashino's entire library. Rest assured if P5 didn't exist this story would've been structured the exact same way because that's how Hashino wants to present his stories and even Catherine is loaded with the level of world detail, lore and social commentary that defines what these games are about. If you'd complaint about the things that actually do burden like the excessively long dungeons relative to the complete lack of MP recovery I'd kinda see some merit here but outside of it this video is too long winded in regards to the fallacy rather than owning up that Hashino's style of game (that is BL Kojima length stories dominating the structure) you're comparing it to P5.
@@Akechi_The_Phantom_Detective this could 100% just be me not being smart enough, but I’m struggling to find what your critique is of this video based off this comment?
I don’t see any specific callouts of things I spoke about in this video, simply that I was long winded (fair opinion that I can take into consideration) and that I didn’t address a few things that you personally had wanted addressed in this video?
If you could clarify/explain your meaning a bit more, I’d love to understand so I can at least respond/take it for data so I can improve.
@@LordKhuryGaming Bless you dude, what I'm saying is rather than take the time to make a well constructed critique of Metaphors own strength's and faults you are undermining all of them by trying to pin the blame on a game it is completely disconnected from. The fact you are using Royal a game that neither Hashino, nor Studio Zero's development team worked on highlights pretty damn clearly. This game was structured this way because Hashino wanted to create a game about social disparity and escapism.
By the mans own words....
"I want something - even if it’s not complete, even if it’s really rough, even if it’s something really unfinished - to give me a glimpse of the humanity behind it."
This is Hashino's game design philosophy and that's every bit as true for P5 as it was for P4, P3, Catherine and Metaphor and if you don't like that ethos I'd say it's probably safer to acknowledge that his games aren't your cup of tea and Royal in particular wasn't then maybe it's not the series for you.
@ So firstly no worries if you don’t read all this. But we’re pretty far apart so I thought I’d try to explain my side. I think there’s a disconnect here.
I hate to ask, because I assumed you had before to be commenting in that way, but did you watch the entire video? Because I love this game and all of the games Atlus has made, and I don’t understand how you could have a takeaway that these games ‘aren’t for me’.
I mean if you watched the video start to finish, I feel like you should be able to glean how much thought and love went into this game from my end. I also don’t understand how you got the take that I am ‘pinning blame’ on anything. In the most basic sense the premise of the comparison in this video is analyzing how my own personal prior experience with Persona 5 Royal impacted my own personal perception&experience playing through Metaphor.
I also don’t see where you got that I am saying anything negative about the structure of the game itself… This video is basically a celebration of how good these two games are while also making minor critiques combined with fun ideas to address said critiques. I say each part of the game is holistically great, and then critique the few things I personally think could be improved. At no point do I lambast the structure/format of these games. At no point do I lambast the game design philosophy of these games.
Tbh, it feels like you think Metaphor and all of their games are perfect (can’t get much closer to perfection, they are wonderful games) and you’re taking my few critiques on this game personally. I think we fundamentally disagree and won’t find common ground, if you’re under the impression that these games can’t be criticized in any capacity… Outside of your comment on MP recovery, which ironically I completely disagree with. I think the game gives you enough tools to mitigate against this, between skills that use HP, and MP recovery skills, and attack items, I think you have enough to effectively manage MP and get through dungeons cleanly. And even if you don’t, like I mentioned in the video I had 5-7 extra days at the end of my playthrough, so I reckon even if you take 2 days in a few of the dungeons, you’d still be fine. Just takes a little extra consideration.
I think I gave feedback in a clear and fair way in this video, while also taking personal accountability for why I may feel the way I do, and I think other comments reflect that that’s the case as well. I respect and cherish these games, which we actually share in common, so i don’t appreciate being told these games aren’t for me 😂💀
Imo, elitist gatekeeping ain’t cool in any scenario, even if I hated these games, I don’t think it’s the right message to say “these aren’t for you” I think the better route would be to help someone understand the other perspective, and if they still don’t like the game after that, then just go on with your day.
Idk I just feel the realm of video game opinion should be more collaborative and respectful than telling ppl they shouldn’t play games, even if they come to the table and say they hated a game you loved (which couldn’t be further from the case here…) Anybody is welcome to disagree with me, I welcome that and my conversations with other ppl reflect that that is the case.
But I feel like you misconstrued my points and then spoke down to me by suggesting because of my differing opinions (which were misrepresented by you), that these games weren’t for me :/
All love and respect from my end though, and at the very least I genuinely appreciate you sharing your thoughts!
This game was a lot easier to get into then persona tho this is my first jrpg I’m playing on hard :)
It's a wonderful JRPG to start with. I'd agree with that sentiment for sure.
Isn't that original body thing a big spoiler?
@@BoldfacedTony I felt a video like this, it would be obvious that there would be spoilers in it?
I can definitely add to the description of the video if that isn’t clear though.
So i do agree with your point being the game should find more ways to expand to their world but because this is their first time making a fantasy game so that thing will be improved in the future. So the biggest thing i disagree about is the complaint about how Louis should have handled. I think that Louis was handled perfectly in this game. And it seems like you do have a big "Persona problem" when you are playing this game. Not everyone can have a social link, and especially Louis because who he is. The who time hes always the guy who stand above you, always 2 steps ahead before everythings you do, and thats what make him such a terrifying villain. And he not the guy that the main character could get along with either, even though he and the mc is still like 2 sides of the same coin like Adachi and Akechi. But he is different from them and will never lie in order to get along with the main character, simply because he hate lies.
He was an elda child that was stuck in his village, always wanted to wander to the outside world just like the Prince. He hated his tribe for keep hiding in one place and stop taking actual action to change the world's reputation about their tribe. Thats why he so admire the king's idea of a utopia where all the tribes united at one. But seeing his hometown and his family was burned down right before him, even the king with most omnipotence magic could not stop it from happening. And to add more salts to the young boy's injury, he discovered the secret about the old world, when the people who once lived in the utopia that was written in the king's book still succumb to their fear and anxiety, which lead to the war that doom them all. Thats why he hate lies, especially lofty and false ideas.
How they handle his characters is basically how the final boss fight was played out. The final boss fight wasnt us fighting him, but its only just Louis fighting with himself, struggle with his own fear and anxiety (fear of trusting other people, fear of not be able to make his ideas into reality, even fear to realize the flaws of his own actions and ideals, anxious about his the childhood incident might happend again, anxious about others betraying him, anxious about failing despite got so much power and envious to the Prince as well). This is why despite the power of Archetype, he could not utilized its power fully, because their strongest abilities is being able to synergize with others. The whole fight is just Louis fight with himself and ultimately lost to himself.
Louis is not an antagonist like Akechi or Maruki for the player to sympathize but he is a complete villain and he knew it himself. Louis was handled so good in this game that you can just change the games name to Louis: Refantazio and its still fit. Theres a lot of reading between the lines and connecting the dots in this game, unlike Persona which everything was throw right into your face, and of course it is different. Its not Persona.
And i also disagree with the music take. I have not played engage but Fe: 3 houses ost is no way nearly as good as this game.
The cool moments where they traveling and seeing scenery in different places is actually one of Katsura Hashino's favourite moment in the game, as said in one of his interview. He's clearly intended to put it like that to encourage player's imagination in the game and i think its perfectly fine choices. Not everything should be explorable. Its feels like they are going on a journey with a mission, of course they are going to these places to take what they want and then leave. There are many cool places in the game but they just stop for a bit to appreciate the scenery and then continue on with their journey. They aren't going for a picnic? They have things to do. Thats why at the end they wanted to travel the world again. It make perfect sense.
Another thing about the romance, the developers intention is clearly to seperate you and the main charcter as 2 different person by just naming 2 times, you are just a person who guide the mc. If you choose the mc's gf for him is just way too weird. And i have to say it again because its important, THIS IS NOT PERSONA.
I personally still think this game is better than p5r in many aspects. While i do agree with your point about dungeons and enemies. Most of the things you dissatisfied about the game is basicly just: "this is not like persona, therefore i don't like it" kinda problem.
Thanks for watching, and for your thoughtful response! I appreciate you more than you know
@LordKhuryGaming sorry for the Engage part, thats was my mistake, the music part is super subjective and i can understand that.
Louis was built to be mysterious the entire way through and that's what makes him so charming and captivating for the player in the first place, so it's not entirely necessary in anyways for a social link with him.
The dungeons and enemies design really shown that this is as big as they can possibly get. Because remember in persona 5 every single enemies is just demons from smt, you just fight persona and thats literally it. They really don't have to design, or remade the enemy that much and it is one of my biggest dissappointment in persona 5 when compared to 2 games before it. Studio Zero is a team that just separate themself from the Persona team to make this game and by no means a large studio, but i can see that they really go out their ways to design all these new enemies and archetypes, so they might running low on budget and time in the late game and have to repeat enemies and dungeons design is quite understandable. So the few fixes about "hey, just making more, its easy", no its really isn't. But even then, when you compare this game's side dungeons to p5's mementos, its still a huge step up for me.
The things about branching paths for more replayability is also a good idea, but the games traversal is really tied to the story itself, so they really have to make the game have some kind of multi stories branching paths in order for it to happend. But for the reason i listed before, it is very unlikely. The game's content felt quite rushed at the end so i dont think they should bite more than what they can chew. And remember: making more social links means making more Archetypes as well.
I'm not saying that you hate the game because it's not persona, i just think that there's so many of your disappointments that was addressed in this game is just what this game does different from persona, and for me those things are completely fine that they decided to make it that way because it is really not persona, and its should not be. If not they could just name it Persona and called it a day.
I think the game could still use some improvements for sure, but you really have to take account for many things to decide „how to improve“. Exactly more so when this is their new IP, not under the name of Persona or SMT and they have to risk a lot to make it, so it's completely understandable that they might not be going all out on this game, especially when not knowing that this game can be successful or not. I think that the improvements by "making more" could be added to their next installment, very likely the sequel to this game but not this game specifically, this game did good for what it was set out to be, which is an introduction to Atlus 3rd Pillar.
@@stupid3814 I appreciate your insightful points. I think you did a great job of highlighting the perspective of the studio/the actual people who work on this game. You make very fair points in terms of how difficult some of my asks are, and with highlighting how this game wasn't just about this game, in terms of their planning. It's interesting to think of the risk assessment that goes into making a game that is a new world, and will hopefully spawn sequels. And again, I completely understand the efficacy of Louis as he is currently in the narrative. Just have a personal take there that I think would enhance an already great piece to the story.
However I'm having trouble understanding again where you got some sentiments. I don't recall ever implying that their job is easy, or that it's simply a matter of flipping a switch to implement the things I mentioned. That was not my intent at all. I'm simply acknowledging the few things that didn't meet my expectations, and I think I mentioned as well both in the video and this comment section, that I'm aware and hold myself accountable for maybe having unfair expectations due to their previous releases.
I've never once said this game wasn't a masterpiece, because it is. But I still feel it's fair to talk about things I felt they could've done better, even if it's 'unrealistic' or a huge ask to implement some of the things I mentioned. Also, I never advocated for more social links, I only advocated for one more. Louis. So that would only be one additional archetype tree, I think it's misrepresentative to suggest I'm out here saying to do a bunch more social links/asking them to design 20 more archetypes lol.
Also you mentioned that this game's side dungeons are better than p5 mementos. Okay, but again this is a game that released years afterwards. So I don't think that simply being slightly better than p5 mementos, but still objectively poor, means I can't or shouldn't criticize it imo.
And again, I think it's reductive that you're suggesting my disappointments with the game are simply elements that aren't the exact same as persona lol but at this point you're free to your opinion, no worries there 🤝
Bottom line, I feel like for the most part you are highlighting the perspective of the studio and ppl who work on this game, and using that as an argument against the things I speak about in this video. But at what point are we allowed to criticize a game? Like should we never criticize a game because they're difficult to make? And we should just accept it with zero critique every single time because they worked hard on it?
Honestly, I think this is just a agree to disagree situation. Because I don't think that way. I think that you can still criticize a game even if it's a masterpiece. I think you can still give feedback and point out things you wish were different, even if it would be difficult from the studios perspective to implement those changes. I respect the blood sweat and tears that go into video games, but I don't think that the colossal efforts to make these pieces of art, automatically makes them free of criticism or feedback ¯\(ツ)/¯
@ i don’t say that you should not criticize the game or anything, i just said that some of your expectations might be too high for them to be able to offer. But i still think many of them are valid, and some of the things i disagree are the things i don’t personally thinks is a bad things thats all. And stating more of their situation is just to answer some of your remark in the video saying that „ heres an easy solution “, but in reality its just not that simple. Of course there are many things people can like or dislike about a game but sometimes the fault is not from the game itself, (like the musics, romances, ect…) those are clearly personal takes, not flaws in term of design. Thats just what im trying to say.
@@LordKhuryGaming and I even think that the ost in this game is not even lacking when compare to any persona games at all
I wish this game didn't inherit the mickey mouse writing from persona
lmaooo I feel like most ppl either love it or feel the way you do about the way they write their games
What does that even mean?