Honda D-Series Engine: A Low Point for Honda
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2024
- Here's a full teardown inside the Honda D17 engine to see what's inside and how it works!
The Honda D17 engine uses a single overhead camshaft with VTEC variable valve timing. The cam is driven by a timing belt from the crankshaft, as is with the oil pump. The bottom end of the engine uses a girdle to support lower main bearings that has oil passages within to lubricate its bearings. The cylinder head features a roller rocker arm setup with the extra rockers for VTEC engagement. An EGR valve and cooler assembly attaches to the back of the head.
The D17 engine suffered from headgasket failures, and typically wasn't as strong or receptive to tuning as the B- series that preceded it. Other common issues include oil leaks and EGR passages building up carbon. This was definitely an economy minded engine, as was the cost-cutting measures deployed in the 7th Generation Honda Civic upon which its found in.
The engine in this video was a D17A2 from a 2002 Acura EL with 192,000 km.
Skip to section in the video:
0:00 Introduction
1:04 Teardown
11:45 Analysis
17:48 Conclusion
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It's crazy that even what's considered a low point engine for Honda is still better than most other makers engines. I've owned several 7th gen civics and aside from having to replace the head gasket, I got nearly 300k out of all of them and they were still running great when I sold them.
Any "good" engine shouldn't need a head gasket replacement.
@@joeblowe7545if they don’t need that, they’ll need something else.
@@joeblowe7545 😂 well considering it was around 200k when the head gasket failed.on them, I consider that just routine maintenance at that point. There aren't too many makes of vehicles that will even make it to the 200k mark unless several thousands of dollars were spent.along.the way to get it there.
@@joeblowe7545 any old Joe Blowe up the street could tell ya that 😂🤣
There was no low point for Honda everything runs no matter what I’ve driven a pilot onto a hoist with no oil and one piston already shot through the bottom of the pan lol
I got 305,000 miles on my 2005 civic and sold it still running great. Loved this engine.
Good to have you back, I was worried your brother’s closet was getting a little full
My d16z6 was straight 🔥.
7200rpm of bliss,
and it spun up to 7500rpm willingly at 200k no issues 35mpg redlined all day.
One of the best engines I ever owned and I have owned ALOT.
mine too, and when i boosted it, became a weapon
You kept the engine healthy by WOT.
Gotta say, this channel is a gem. Your editing is snappy and polished, while your narration is super interesting to listen to. You seem to know very much about what you’re talking about, but you explain things in a way that many of us can understand; no fluff.
Definition of a perfect TH-camr: They are an expert in their field, they explain things clearly, and they are always good for a laugh or 2. I laughed out loud about your brother's hat. 🤣😂 Thanks for the video.
Glad you like my format! Thanks
I'm a little surprised about this video!
Ive done quite a good bit of work on D17s. I own a 7th gen honda now with one, and have owned a 7th gen honda before it.
The old Red honda i had was 333,333kms on it. I had overheated it due to a failing water pump (classic water pump and timing belt).
I replaced em and despite the overheating it ran, and it would still run. I would've kept it were the rust not working its way through the floor.
This new one I have now only has 78,000kms. And I overheated it again, this was due to a rubber hose rotting and leaking coolant.
I drove it some 40kms trying to nurse the thing while it was overheating, not trying to get it too hot, putting water in the rad and bringing jugs with me until I could get it home to replace the clamp.
She's still driving.
Idk! I'm not saying you're wrong. What you're saying makes absolute sense and open deck designs aren't my favourite either. Also YES! That intake design is $h!t.
However, I quite like the 7th gen myself. Never had major engine or trans issues (all of mine were manuals though so idk).
Thanks for the video ^.^
I had this engine in my 05 honda civic. Lost compression in two cylinders on a long road trip in the summer. Made it to 295000kms. The engine was amazing for me until that point and still got me all the way home on 2 cylinders. Loved this car.
Did you scrap the car?
@@speedkar99 sold to a Honda mechanic for 600
@139forLife he had it running by the weekend for sure. These are super easy to work on. But I love mine and would trade it for very few things
I like the new editing on the screws, fast, practical and funny 😁👍 Great video, thanks, Learned something
amazing as usual i love the fact this time you took to explain how it works loved that
One thing I learned from watching your videos is how important the family is. What would you do without your brother's and wife's old clothing and toothbrush.
Thanks for the upload, great depth in explanations and I can see why some of my friends complained about their Civics. They were prising them in early days, but when the time came to replace their old Civic they would change the brand after being loyal to Honda for years. They said they were not too happy with their engine but the reason was probably D series.
Glad you enjoyed the analysis
a concise observation.
This video is the best detailed breakdown explanation of how the d17 function. I appreciate you sharing this video.
Your grunts of exertion when removing overly tight bolts are worthy of an award of some kind. They add character to your videos. And I like your use of the word "contraption:.
Thanks!
Someone here said I should remove them lol
My old civic made it around 400,800 km and only needed a head gasket. Other then maintenance done to it. That thing was a trooper
Cool! 400K is impressive
Love your tear downs and your knowledge is amazing. All the best from UK
D17a very fun to drive. Does not respond well to mods, but still a good motor
Honda's were defined by tuneabily
@@speedkar99 some people just want to drive a stock car to work man
K-Series all the way bro.
Sick editing 👌 my D17 is at 420,000 km running strong
Original headgasket?
@@nmot97surely not
Wow! I love this video! I'd be willing to watch hours of such Content on a single engine. Keep them coming.
Thanks. I have more to come! Thanks
Great video! Thanks for breaking down all the systems for us and explaining everything!!! You sound very knowledgeable and explain detail very well! good job...looking for the next video!
Thanks!
Next video will be on a Jeep
@@speedkar99 Looking forward to it!
I maintained a D17 from 100k miles to over 240,000 miles, it was absolutely flawless... except for a minor coolant leak. The D-series was stretched to its limit by that point and I was glad to see it replaced by the R-series.
The oil leaks are due to the same problem as the pistons' clogged oil control rings…
The oil wasn't changed regularly!
(oil becomes acidic due to combustion by products, which degrades seals)
True but it can also be because of the seal design
@@speedkar99 Also nobody changes their PCV valve. It gets clogged and the block can't vent pressure. So it takes the path of next least resistance, the rubber seals.
@@speedkar99 but it's not. I have a decade of experience with the D-series (USDM versions D15 & D16 & some JDM versions, including DOHC ZC). The oil pan is never an issue on properly maintained d15 or d16 engines with a steel oil pan. I never saw an issue with an aluminum pan, but I got out of D's while Honda still sold D17's.
I highly doubt that was an issue because a few D16's also came with an aluminum pan (ie: D16Y8) & they had no issue on properly maintained engines! That is key, because poorly maintained engines leaked (almost) everywhere.
The valve cover gasket only shows slight leaks at about the same time as the timing belt needs replaced. IMO, that's fine, since the valve cover needs to be removed to get the timing belt cover off, and the valves should be adjusted more frequently than that.
That one you had was (definitely) poorly maintained, the oil control rings were nasty!
IDK about the EGR system, I didn't see issues with that. I guess the D17's weren't old enough? IDK, because some D15's also had EGR, and I never saw an issue with any of those. I'm a bit curious how those worked, but since I never needed to work on one, idk how they were different.
@@SkylineFTW97 oh, yeah, they did need the PCV rerouted (to a downdraft :p ) when boosted
Wonder if this is a no oil change jdm motor?
I'm a Honda tech and that was a bulletproof engine. The intake manifold nuts are easy to remove from the top , the biggest reason to remove the manifold was to clean clogged egr ports which didn't happen often
And how about the intake nuts from the bottom?
I haven't watched your posts for a while, and am REALLY happy that you have sped up the disassembly. A1!!! I love the spread out parts, and your comments on the strengths and weaknesses of the design elements, and more importantly why the engine failed or wore out. Thanks! BTW have you torn apart a Honda/Acura 3.5 liter 6 -cyl Engine, a J35Z2 I believe? I have a 2015 Acura RDX with 100,000 miles on it. Thanks!
Glad you like the format. I have a J-series teardown already, check it out!
Always a good day to get your videos!
Awesome thanks
TBH the D17 is really the true low point, the rest of the D series engines before were great. Not exactly wildly powerful and certainly nothing special, but they were extremely reliable and a piece of cake to work on. Mediocre aftermarket ignition parts were just about the only problem you were likely to run into, other than needing to keep up with timing belts.
Yes agreed
I was gonna say, the D series are very strong and reliable in general, I would not call them a low point
@@sirfairplay9153 .Agreed. D16Z6 was a sweet little engine. VTEC, 7200rpm redline - excellent for boost. Even the A6 and Y8 were nice because they were so simple and reliable.
But yeah, the D17 was a POS in comparison.
@@crxtodd16 couldn't agree more. I have a d16z6 in my 95 del sol si. Love that car and that engine
Not sure why you assume, or who told you, the D17 is any different 🤨🤦♂ They're nearly identical to every D series from 1984 to 2000. From 2001 to 2007 Honda used D14, D15, D16, and D17s in a handful of different vehicles. And every single one of them can be upgraded/modified in the exact same manner. Want a D16Z6 cam in your D17? Okay then just swap the cam and rockers. Want a D16 intake manifold...? Okay then bolt one on. Want to de-stroke your 1.7? Simply use a D16 rotating assembly. Want 500? Rods, pistons, turbo kit, E85 = Done and easy af. There is absolutely no such thing as a bad D series. No such thing as a common head gasket issue. Nor is there a single TSB for any Honda D series. It's a D series just like a Z6 is. Y8 head and crank are both junk. Terrible quench pads. There's a reason why every D series record is held by an A6. Goofy comment on a goofy video.
What an amazing video! Absolutely love it 👍
Also the special hex tool for the damper is supposed to be used to torque it to spec. Usually just gets hit with an impact though and ends up being pretty tight and with age only seems to get tighter
Honda crank bolts are stupid tight!!
I always preferred adjustable rockers or HLAs vs. shim-style valves because, assuming you're following proper maintenance and having them adjusted as required, shims are a pain: they need a special tool to remove them without pulling the cam, then you have to measure them and figure out what size replacement shim you need, then you have to find this new shim and this is usually the hardest part, especially for >20-year-old engines where parts may be NLA. Honda's SOHC engines with their adjustable rockers were always super easy.
Good point
I have a Kawasaki and a BMW motorcycle that use shims. The Kawasaki you have to pull the cam up to replace shims, the BMW you don't. It uses little semi-spheres you can replace by popping an e-clip and removing the follower. R1200R 2011 MODEL
I did a valve adjustment on my motorcycle but mercifully it has a shim over bucket setup
Cool ! I’m saving this video to learn how to put my d17 back together !
Your videos are oddly satisfying 😊🏴
My sister's (which used to be my mom's which she bought used) is still running fine 300,000+ kms. No head gasket issues but it's been maintained and driven lightly.
Great explanation and well explained the way that engine works mechanicly
Glad you liked it
Wohoo an engine I use is featured on your channel. I'm surprised how bang on everything in this video is. I remember trying to fiddle with the intake bolts with a spanner. I'm pretty sure the head gasket is blown on mine except the oil and water doesn't mix. Just have top up the radiator every few months. Oil leaks profusely from absolutely everywhere. I don't change oil given it automatically does half the job by itself. Yes the crank pulley bolt is extremely tight. Oil control rings were well clogged on another one I parted out. As were all the egr pathways.
Snappy editing. Much appreciated.
I like the narrator's method of explaining everything as he takes it apart. He sounds like a professor in school.
Alot of people say I should be a teacher. Hmm
Well done! No messing around. 👍
Like a boss 💪🏼💯🔥🔥 great content!!!
Thank you so much for these videos
Welcome
I've got a d17a1 in a 2002 civic. It's been a good engine currently has 445k miles and I still drive it some. Bought it new 21 years ago when I started working for Honda.
Wow, 445K is the highest mileage 7th gen I have ever heard of. Engine and transmission still original?
That's alot of miles!
YES!! This is my motor featured on my favorite channel
Awesome thanks
I loved my 95 civic ex coupe d16z6 that I boosted with 16g Greddy turbo kit back in the day (early 2000's)! Broke a lot of v8 mustangs, Subaru WRX and stock evo 8 hearts!
Very nice!
The o ring on the back side of the oil pump is a known leaker. Also there can be an oil restrictor between the head and the block that appears to have two small o rings, different sizes, this restrictor and the o rings don’t always appear in the parts manual or any workshop manual. My daughters 2005 LX had them though. They fall out when you lift the head off and if it wasn’t for pure luck I wouldn’t have known they were there. Put new ones back, either end of the restrictor, and the engine ran fine. Thanks for the good video. Sometimes the alternator bolt securing the +Ve cable can be so tight the post shears off.
Good to know these little details from an owner
I think the head gasket failure mode is the opposite of what you say. First comes an overheat event and then the head gasket fails.
Not always. There are plenty of cases of the head gasket randomly going out for no apparent reason, it happened to me. A very well respected Honda technician on a forum reported that he changed a lot of them under warranty at low mileage too. I have always wondered why they fail so often, but I have never seen any definitive answer.
INever had an overheat event. It just went.
"When the V-Tech kicks in y'all"
Hilarious my dude!
Haha thanks
My '96 DX has the d16Y7. 220,000 miles. Regardless of all the potential problems, I will continue to maintain it vigilantly and drive it as long as I can. no silly mods, just bone stock and it's my daily driver
Good, any issues with overheating?
@@speedkar99 Not yet! But definitely a pan leak. no VTEC, so that's one less leak point. My Camry with the 1MZFE (which you made another great video on) has rust proofed the front end of the car from it's valve covers leaking, but that will be fixed soon.
Thanks for the videos!
@@speedkar99 the D17 is the only problematic D series. Meanwhile the D16Z6 and D16Y8 are well loved
My '98 EX stopped counting miles at 384K. when the odometer broke. Car rusted out by 500k+ but the engine was still ok. Honda Civic 6th Gen was the best car ever.
@@Doomzdayxx Change your PCV valve. Should cut down on oil leaks.
my d16 was dope. boosted it easily and stayed reliable
I think the D17 was a step backwards
What's crazy is that this motor is super similar to the E-series in my 2nd gen Accord!
Hmm I never heard of E-series
@@speedkar99 wikipedia might be wrong but the 2nd gen Accord like my 1985 one had the Honda Engine or the Honda Cvcc engine? Anyways it looks pretty similar to this engine which is actually surprising
The D16's were legendary engines. I had a 2000 Civic that had a D16Y7 basic no v-tech manual throttle body all aluminum intake that made hardly any power but got close to the TDI of the time in economy. I had well over 300k on this car with no issues at all aside from the car just deteriorating from winter driving in Michigan. I had to deal with the dreaded P1457 evap code all the time and after I got rid of the car, figured out how to fix the issue these had and I would have had no lights on the dash at all. Very solid car and will go back to honda at some point depending on what generation they exceeded in reliability. Some gens weren't so reliable as they once were. A car mainly assembled in USA with most US sourced parts. You can't really say that about our domestic brands.
Love my gear wrenches. My go to for those intake manifold bolts.
I hate that intake design
greetings from Indonesia we fix all engine damage we rarely do engine replacement. I once used the D15 hyper engine Honda City Z fun to drive, very economical
Just acquired a 7th gen Civic as a beater car about a month ago and was wondering if you or the I Do Cars channel would ever release a video of a teardown of one of the engines just by chance because it would be super cool to see an analysis of an engine I own. My daily is a 2000 Maxima with the legendary Vq30...you did a Vq35 so close enough for me lol. Basically same engine just larger displacement and has VVT whereas mine does not. Anyways just think its super cool I can watch a teardown of an exact engine I currently own! Only difference being mine is a non-EGR engine. Bought knowing about the head gasket issue but these engines are so incredibly easy to work on I could do it in half a Saturday when need-be.
Nice!
I do cars does great work, I watch Eric too.
Nice and interesting video again!
I noticed that you refer to the bolts as "10 mm" all the time. We (in the Netherlands) would call them M6 bolts. You refer to the size of the tool to get them out, we to the diameter and thread type.
Is that common practice in Canada and the USA?
Generally in a shop environment when you're just repairing vehicles, it's easier to refer to bolts by the size of tool you need to remove or install them. Obviously multiple sizes of bolt can have the same size head, but the actual size of the bolt doesn't matter much for teardown or repair work, just the tool needed to remove it.
Why I'm not entirely sure but my guess is it's often the case in places like the USA and the UK where we had many older bolt styles and systems that did not correlate the thread pitch and other bolt parameters with the head size so we stuck with that description?
I know this much, when I go to buy the 10mm bolts, they have M6 stamped on them. Maybe all the bolts do and I dont notice
Not all bolts have the type stamped into them but US we go by socket size not type of bolt it saves a lot of time.
Usually, if I say “oh it’s a 10Mm bolt/nut” I mean the socket size. However if I say “it’s an m6” then I’m referring to the actual thread and diameter of the bolt. As some m6 bolts have 8mm heads, some have 10mm, etc. saying the socket size makes it easier to grab tools, etc.
My d17a1 had a timing belt snap. Changed the belt and still fired right up. 330k miles on it so far.
the d17a2 has been my daily since 2006
Awesome!
Low Point? D-Series engines will last till the end of times.
Honda D Series aka “Old Reliable”
Can confirm. My 99 has the Y7, 245k miles, and it runs like it's basicallynew. Its got no ticks, knocks, or rattles, excellent compression on all 4 cylinders and burns no oil. I love that little single jingle! It's torquey for what it is and sounds like a baby V8. Such a characterful and retro engine from that era.
Keep in mind that a low point for Honda is every other engine maker’s high point
The D17 Weren’t As Reliable As The D16s .
Its the "nothing special" about them that makes them great workhorses. Same with the Toyota 5sfe
At least on the manual 01 I had, you could raise the rpm’s up at a red light easily to drop the coolant temps back down. Since it had exhaust blowing into the coolant passages constantly. The fan did well at cooling it down until I had time to fix it
01 EX 338000 miles, using oil due to bad valve stem seals and I'll be replacing those this weekend apart from a blown head gasket at 213750 miles and some minor stuff its been a very reliable engine and car overall.
I GOT THE HONDA FRV SAME ENGINE. AMAZING VIDEO THX
What's an FRV?
what i notice unique here that it have only 1 camshaft with those 16 /rocker arms/valves + vtec which is normally came with 2 camshaft engines
those timing belts rarely fail withing the service interval (like most hondas) unlike for example, the renault K4M belt which ive seen failing under 50k frequently.
a big misconception is that timing belts last the life of the vehicle, they barely last the warranty, modern timing chains dont last what they used to, the average km i usually end up replacing timing chains, specially on BMW and VW is around 150k, depending on the model, the biggest difference tho, is that a timing belt is a lot cheaper, to buy, and a lot easier to replace, not to mention a lot quieter, and in case of a belt snapping, you only get valvetrain collision, whereas a timing chain failure can be even worse than that.
id take replacing my accord V6 belt in a couple hours for cheap every 100k(like the manual says, even though ive stretched that to 150) than having to replace a VW Amarok v6 timing chain at 150k (ive replaced them at 80k some times). and i could bring up many examples.
people demonize timing belts, but with how badly design timing chains are nowadays, they are a nightmare, sure, if we had 80s/90s timing chains design and quality, it would be better
I agree. I tend to like belts better. Easier to service than a chain.
@@speedkar99 Chains do not like extended oil change intervals, especially on K24s. Honda timing belts are pretty easy, especially on the J series. I've done dozens of them, including on my own 2006 Accord.
I agree. To me is is just insane to hear Americans complaining about how for example water pumps fail on certain engines. I am like, wtf? Water pumps are service items. They are very cheap and get changed every 80K km or so in Europe. With every timing belt change. By timing belt, in Europe, we also mean everything assosiated with it, plus the accesory belt and everything that goes with that, the spark plugs and the coolant. What we call a "big service" in Europe. Again, done every 80K km or so.
@@DashCamSerbia That's because most engines here are driven by chains now. On timing belt engines, the water pump is part of the timing belt service. The last major holdout is the Honda J series V6 and random water pump failures are rare due to them being replaced with the belt. Nobody with sense will replace the belt and not the pump.
Some put water pumps on tining chains, like the Subaru EZ30. I did a chain assembly on one I fixed up. I replaced the pump too because it had 268k miles and was on the original pump, and the process to take the timing cover apart is a pain.
Update, I just finished a full timing /distribution service on a mitsubishi 1996 montero 4m40 engine(pajero for the rest of the world) 860.000kms still on the factory chain and sprocket combo (first owner and good mantainance) goes to show what good design and quality and proper service intervals could get you,sadly not the usual case today.
Yes, it was vey expensive since everything was very worn out, but thermal group still under tolerance, only new valve guides and seats were needed.
Got 170k on mine. Just pulled it into my bay last year to fix the leaking head gasket. These engines have a known history of just blowing head gaskets because they use low torqued head bolts that aren't TTY bolts. Had a perfectly flat deck and head when I put the new headgasket on.
A fresh mls head gasket and ARP studs make them bulletproof
Glad you made it in time before warpe
I don't think the non TTY head bolts are the entire reason because the rest of the D series engines as well as the F series, H series, and B series all use the same style non TTY bolts and aren't known for randomly blowing their head gaskets like these are.
This was my first Honda, 7th gen manual. The transmission was even weaker than the engines and needed an input shaft bearing by 100k. My favorite style they made but I will stick to my d16's, b20's, J30's yada yada... CRX for the win!
Thanks for your videos
You are welcome! I think with such a small engine a manual makes more sense.
Yeah, I've got a friend who became an expert in dropping the subframe & tranny in an hour because he had to do them all the time to replace ISB's back in the day. Besides that one bearing they hold up pretty well tough.
I drive with the noisy bearing for past 60k km. Got the car cheap, but needed parts from 'donors'. At 25yrs of age, surviving Ottawa winters it's quite an achievement. I agree that the B series was a better engine. We service one '95 Civic (full rustproof since new) with half million km on it - it gets new tires this week.
@@unimportant5122 I pulled my transmission 3 times out from the top. They are not bad vehicles but subpar once you own anything older from Honda..
@@SamslamminCars AFAIK on the 7'th gen EP and EM that requires removing the thermostat housing and EGR and even then you first have to remove the clutch and flywheel trough the small gap you can create between engine and transmission before being able to pull it out from the top. Dropping the subframe is easier imho. Separate the 2 lower ball joints, separate exhaust, 6 subframe bolts and you've all the room in the world.
Perhaps the D17 specifically (and in relation to their other engines) because my experience with D series says otherwise. They're all very similar, but I know for a fact that the D16A6 is nearly indestructible except in cases of extreme abuse/negligence. I've had a couple CRXes (still own my trophy retired garage queen- 88' Si) and I ran a D16A6 with well over 200k miles on it daily HARD. There was a period of time (about a year I shit you not) where my temp gauge kept going up intermittently and I thought it was just a faulty gauge/reading because whenever I'd hit the switch to close the sunroof, the needle would shoot up. Motor sounded, felt and ran fine so I wrote it off and kept riding it. I even started using water instead of coolant at some point because of what I thought was simply the famously cracked reservoir. Was exhausted and working insane hours as an airframe mechanic at a slave camp MRO so I couldn't be bothered. Fast forward however long it was & eventually I was at a milf's house I'd met at the bakery talking outside about to leave with my rex idling. The ride there had been odd, and I noticed that the muffler was smoking and smelling terrible, plus it was banging. I quickly went inside to check the temp and lo and behold, it was maxed out and right then I realized the gauge was not faulty after all (well, it was to an extent because of the sunroof thing but it wasn't lying the whole rest of the time when it was telling me my engine was hot). I quickly rushed the conversation to leave and when I hopped on and drove home, I knew I was screwed. Engine ran hot all the way and my exhaust was an AK-47. I had work the next day, didn't know of any mechanics in the area and I said f it and when I went to work the next day, I knew that's when I'd blow the engine. The whole way it was smoking and banging like CRAZY and I had to shut it off and let it cool before I went up a steep hill. When I turned it on I could already feel I'd blown the gasket and I thought this is it. Drove the rest of the distance I needed to get to the parking lot at work without shutting it off and it was the most painful thing I'd ever done. Soon as I parked it the engine was about to die on its own but I turned the key off and knew it wouldn't come back on when I came back. Anyway long story short, I had it transported to a coworker's house and when I pulled the head out, it was insane how much abuse the engine took and for so long. Head gasket had completely destroyed and was basically impossible to remove, the coolant/water around the cylinders was FULL of headgasket material and other crap and so were the piston heads. Eventually took a die grinder to the block to get most of it off, trying my best to not score the hell out of it, took the head to a machine shop to have it resurfaced (I really wanted to do the block but didn't have the tools or the time). My friend thought I'd have to scrap the engine. Head came back (shop guy said he took off 17 thou), put it back together with a new head gasket and to my disbelief, it started up just fine and is still riding to this day with that engine. Turns out it was the thermostat that had been stuck closed (there must have been SOME flow cuz I mean, it was a very long time running it so hot). I wanted nothing to do with it after that. I already had great admiration for the engineering behind these engines, but after that experience, I was in absolute awe at how something could be abused so terribly and still function, when there are so many engines out there that will fail at 30k miles on a new car.
I bought one of these ELs this past summer. Even though I knew full well these engines were plagued with head gasket problems... I'm always hawk eyeing the thermostat while driving! I really wanted a 6th gen but getting impossible to find. Is there anything you could do to limit the chances of it happening? from the video it seems like theres really not a whole lot you can do but maybe some others can chime in. I do really love the car!
If it's a design flaw there's not much...keep up on fluid changes and watch the gauge
At 7:56, what oil pan material would you recommend when throwing connecting rods through it?
The best was the D15, imo. I made ~300whp with a (stock internals) D15B2 & boost for almost 100 miles, and replacements were only $50, or less!
(92hp stock, figure 15% power loss ~78whp, so ~380% of factory power)
Wow
Oh man, you're in Canada!? I remember taking a trip up there and being SO obsessed with seeing Acura ELs!
Yes! We had alot of EL's around here. Now they're all rotted out
I just finished rebuilding a D17A2. Put a sleeve gaurd in it and blocked the EGR. Should last 300k miles easily now
Yeah that EGR is pesky
My d16z6 in my 95 civic coupe has been great, it has 200,000 miles and still runs like a champ, even though I floor it every where and rev it out even when the engine is cold. Gonna swap it out just cause it's kind of hard to make n/a power on that engine, gonna throw in a b20 and convert it to vtec. I feel like it's mainly the d17
It really boggles my mind how everyone talks mad crap about the D series motors. They're solid little units, easy to work on, reliable... but oh well, one man's trash is another man's treasure.
@speedkar99 would love to see a d16 teardown, I'd imagine those are way more common.
I am with speedkar on this one, D series engines are awesome, but operator error gets it straight to the junkyard.
I had a Civic with the D16V1 with 3 owners, the last one liked to step on it while it was cold. I had a slow leak in the headgasket in cyl 1.
It failed in the most common way, the compression leaked into the cooling system making the overflow burble and fill up slightly after turning the engine off.
Plus it had the green coolant which eats the headgasket material if its not changed.
I drove the car for 2 years, sucking the coolant from the expansion tank to the radiator with a hose using my mouth 😂
I drove to Spain with the heat on high in 38°C I loved it (not)
True
i had d series in my first car it was 98 civic hatch with swapped engine (D16z6) i had this car for exactly one year, i drove it daily and i had a lot of fun i learned tuning on it i had it shoot flames from exhaust and i never was light on throttle, when i had an accident and my car was totaled but i decided to keep it
i bought another civic with d16y8 it turned out that engine was rebuilded but it was done poorly and piston pin made a hole in my cilinder wall so i quicly swapped the d16z6 from my totaled car
after i finished the swap i left car at mechanic because it had problems starting up
i over heated the engine on first drive because one of coolant hoses unpluged itself and i drove the car without any coolant
i fixed it and drove for about a year
after i didnt check coolant in winter it froze the block and lifted the head
i drove for another 2 months daily until the pressure blew my coolant hoses
i decided to rebuild it
and it turns out the engine was 100% nominal
honing was still present
i just today got feedback from machine shop and they said its all good and i dont need to overbore it or put oversized bearings
i literally trashed this engine for 2 years to find out its 100% stock and still 100% good to be put back on original parts
i will just say one thing...
engine production year is 93... its 30 year old engine which never had easy life
god knows how many chassis it was in
and its fucking mint condition...
honda is just different
Is the D17A3 any better in terms of reliability?
I'm curious, when you do these engine tear downs, is it because you are planning to rebuild them? Are they blown motors? Inquiring minds are curious. What happens after you pull them apart?
He scraps them as they are, in most cases, not worth fixing....
as he said this D17.....it's not worth it as this is a cheaply made engine.....
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq Ah. I see. I have never torn down an engine, and am just a fluids and brake changes backyard DIY'er. Its still interesting to watch these videos though.
Thanks. Yep they all go to scrap. I like to break stuff not fix stuff
@@speedkar99
You like to break stuff, we the viewers like the technical knowledges gain along process. Nothing is really going to waste there 🤞😅. Finallly manuals say install back how you remove/take it/them apart🤣.
Thanks for those videos.
the D14A1 twin carb in my old EG civic wouldn't die, miss that car and its fuel economy. Went to a new owner with a B18.
Good !
Maybe the head gasket flaw is part of why there seem to be so few 7th gen Civics left along with the weak transmissions. 7th gen Accords are still everywhere though. I see more 4th, 5th, and 6th gen Accords than 7th gen Civics too.
True. The 7th gen is dying
@Speedkar99 can you do a teardown of any b series volvo engine. Preferrably a b230 or b21
Send me one
15:26 woah woah wait, can you explain what that ball bearing thing is? Does oil come OUT of that? Is that supposed to be attached to something? Isn't the intake manifold right there?
Do the D14 and D16's from this same era (7th gen 2001-2005 EP's for example) suffer these same problems? Or is the D17 a case on it's own. I've personally never had any problems with older 90's D engines.
The 17s are the low point of the D series. I've had plenty of D16s: 2 Z6s (93 and 94 EXs), a Y7 (97 DX), and a Y8 (98 EX). Those had no major issues. I had 1 D17A2 (same variant shown here, US emissions with VTEC) and the head gasket failed at 150-160k miles. For comparison, most of the D16 cars I had had north of 200k on them, the highest being the Z6 in my old 1994 Civic EX, which had 273k miles when I got it. It burned oil (basically all D series engines burn oil at high mileage), but no other issues.
D17 👎
No one makes better engines than Honda
Agreed
FYI you want a very slight amount of play in your valve tappets when the engine is cold.
Thanks. Some of them felt a bit more than that.
my bro.'s tools are basically things other people live off of :D
Exactly! Gotta use what I can find
7:55 "Tendency to crack if you throw a connecting rod through it"
Is this comment speaking from experience?
Hahaha
F Series coming soon? I have an F22A6 in my 91' Accord SE.
hi from France , exist rod forged for D17 turbo ?
I finally got how vvt system works yo
I have a separate video on VTEC
Being that D17 (1.7L) is the biggest in the series, it was obviously designed for the economy car in mind.
Definitely.
@@speedkar99 homie they all were economy cars LMFAO
2014 honda civic 1.6 diesel nice car but no one even a main dealer can get the electrics fixed here in Ireland
Is the R18Z9 design very similar to this?
I started having head gasket problems as early as 78k. After signs worsen, I decided to drive it without thermostat and drive till the end which was 215k.
I guess they're a "low point" if you want power, but they are very simple low power efficient engines. I've got an 02 civic and had both A1 and A2 engines in it. It gets about 35 mpg and is my daily driver. It's so cheap to fix I'll probably never get rid of it.
Is this an interference engine? I read that the pistons have a groove that prevents damage to the valves should the timing belt snaps or timing is not right.
I don't think so...
One thing good about the d17 is some race body’s won’t allow DOHC. You can take the d17 crank pistons rods and some other stuff and build a stroker out of a d16.
"Low Point" Honda engines are still higher quality than other brands.
True
One of the biggest problems with this model was the coolant reservoir cap. Would always pop off causing coolant leak
Hello how are you Speedkar99
Can you please do a video for valve matic control unit and how it works
oh the intake being hard to get to is a B /E series problem as well the E series was one of hondas very early car engines the E series is fun the best way to get the intake off is to pull the head a lot of the E, B and D series are similar in many regards same issues plague the E series as the D series head gaskets blowing and warping the head but if you are good at ripping into these timing belt 4 cylinders you can pull the head in no time at least.
other notes about the E series is the oil pump is in the pan and cam driven leading to issues if the head is really badly warped causing the oil pump to fail to do its job the CVCC carb allowed cars up to the really early 80s to run without a cat and lastly the cvcc head is a 3 valve setup 2 intakes 1 exhaust notable examples are the 1.8l EK1 and the civics ED1 the first CVCC engine now these engines are fun to play with but have little power.
Good to know
I can't understand how the D17 VTEC valve rocker arm moves?
This is not the same as the R18 VTEC valve rocker arm
All Honda engines are turned down from factory to meet emission regulations. They are built solid and not "barely enough" so they break down once you increase power. Back in the 90s and 00s I NOS-ed the crapp out of stock D15B2 engines (90ps) and they lasted really long, did not even break down just blew gaskets and piston rings. Friend of mine upgraded a louzy D14 (EK series) from 75ps up to 143ps , dyno proven. upgrading step by step MPFI , TB, pistons for CR, cams (D16), intake, header, exhaust, airbox etc.etc... crazy. Ghetto stuff, people could not believe it. It is easy to swap B or K (or even J now) but the real fun is light car + built engine on budget, that is the POWER OF HONDA
Emissions make things sad. But at least they used to be built strong. 😢